"Sunak said there would be no limit on the funding available to pay people’s wages."
I have to ask sir - given your repeated denial of the evidence of your eyes and ears are you also a Flat Earther?
80% of wages is not 100% of wages
Is the word "unlimited" causing you some problems? I didn't say they were paying unlimited wages ie Virgin furlough Branson and we pay his do,at. It's that the payment of £2,500 a month is unlimited. It has no limit. It has no end date. It will go on as lomg as is needed.
Sunak also increases UC standard allowance by £1000 a year as he says he still cannot promise no job losses, self employed people to access UC at rate of SSP for employees.
Self assessment patments deferred to January 2021
Rishi is demonstrating the conservative party has compassion and is prepared to support everyone irrespective of costs through this crisis
And contrary to some of your heartless posts yesterday
At times like this, Big_G, perhaps better to celebrate HYUFD’s ability to execute philosophical pirouettes every time his government adopts policies he was previously inveighing against. He is a true Tory trimmer, which is a definite part of the Tories’s historical makeup.
I would love to have the certainty of worldview and philosophy that HYUFD has. Even if I were wrong.
I wonder what the check will be if a company claims 80% of a person's salary and that person carries on working at home?
How on earth will anyone know if person is still working?
No way round this but it'll be a goldmine for some companies!
Wouldn't the employee have to take a pay cut to £2k per month though? They might not be willing to do that, and most jobs that can be done from home will be carry a higher salary than that.
As I understand it the company will continue to pay the full salary and the government will pay up to £2000 of it if it is above £2500.
The idea has so much potential for abuse.
No, it's only for furloughed workers. It's the government subsidy or nothing.
I wonder what the check will be if a company claims 80% of a person's salary and that person carries on working at home?
How on earth will anyone know if person is still working?
No way round this but it'll be a goldmine for some companies!
Wouldn't the employee have to take a pay cut to £2k per month though? They might not be willing to do that, and most jobs that can be done from home will be carry a higher salary than that.
As I understand it the company will continue to pay the full salary and the government will pay up to £2000 of it if it is above £2500.
The idea has so much potential for abuse.
You understand it wrong. it's for furloughed employees that would otherwise be paid nothing.
Wouldn't surprise me if national debt is at 120-130% of GDP once this is all over, and possible more if the economy shrinks.
That isn't good.
It isn't, but there's no choice. I suspect it won't matter too much in the end, because this is such an unprecedented situation. It's not as though the pound is going to collapse against other currencies as a result of our high debt, because the US and other major economies are also going to be running up huge national debts (indeed the US was well on the way, Gordon-Brown-style, even before the crisis.)
In practice, QE will cover a lot of it. Normally one might be worried about this leading to inflation, but there is so much deflationary pressure as a result of the crisis that that's not a worry for now at least.
Sunak also increases UC standard allowance by £1000 a year as he says he still cannot promise no job losses, self employed people to access UC at rate of SSP for employees.
Self assessment patments deferred to January 2021
Rishi is demonstrating the conservative party has compassion and is prepared to support everyone irrespective of costs through this crisis
And contrary to some of your heartless posts yesterday
At times like this, Big_G, perhaps better to celebrate HYUFD’s ability to execute philosophical pirouettes every time his government adopts policies he was previously inveighing against. He is a true Tory trimmer, which is a definite part of the Tories’s historical makeup.
I bet Jezza can't believe he's missed out on this opportunity for massive state spending and government intervention.
Would have been manna from heaven if only it hadn't been for the pesky voters...
The genius of democracy. Truly we have dodged a bullet by not having Corbyn and Milne and co in charge of this national crisis.
Truly that is partisan nonsense. Read the Conservative manifesto and realise Boris was going to shake the magic money tree even before the corona virus was a twinkle in a pangolin's eye. Boris won by being a better Corbyn than Jeremy Corbyn, and by opposing Cameron and May.
Everything has changed. Everything. There is no coming back from this. We are all social democrats now. It has taken a tragic crisis, but we have the very real opportunity to create a better Britain. We must grasp it and not let it go.
Everything has changed. Everything. There is no coming back from this. We are all social democrats now. It has taken a tragic crisis, but we have the very real opportunity to create a better Britain. We must grasp it and not let it go.
The UK debt chart from 1910 to 1950 is instructive, we're probably ok running the debt up to a bit over 200%. This is basically a war situation right now - the 2008 GFC for all it's bombast was just the big global banks fucking up over mortgages so wartime debt comparisons weren't appropriate. They are now.
I think 200% puts us in the region of where we are going.....it is not just increased spending, but a a catastrophic reduction in tax collection over an increasingly sustained period.....
I wonder if China will come out with a Marshall Plan to resuscitate the global economy
Wait hold on what's going on we're on a UK wide lockdown now ?
I wouldn't call it a lock-down. You can still go to Wetherspoons for a delicious burger, you'll just have to take it home to eat. If someone can find a legal way that pubs can do take-away pints they'll make a fortune
Sunak also increases UC standard allowance by £1000 a year as he says he still cannot promise no job losses, self employed people to access UC at rate of SSP for employees.
Self assessment patments deferred to January 2021
Rishi is demonstrating the conservative party has compassion and is prepared to support everyone irrespective of costs through this crisis
And contrary to some of your heartless posts yesterday
At times like this, Big_G, perhaps better to celebrate HYUFD’s ability to execute philosophical pirouettes every time his government adopts policies he was previously inveighing against. He is a true Tory trimmer, which is a definite part of the Tories’s historical makeup.
I wonder what the check will be if a company claims 80% of a person's salary and that person carries on working at home?
How on earth will anyone know if person is still working?
No way round this but it'll be a goldmine for some companies!
Wouldn't the employee have to take a pay cut to £2k per month though? They might not be willing to do that, and most jobs that can be done from home will be carry a higher salary than that.
As I understand it the company will continue to pay the full salary and the government will pay up to £2000 of it if it is above £2500.
The idea has so much potential for abuse.
You understand it wrong. it's for furloughed employees that would otherwise be paid nothing.
That seems strange.
So if a company wants to keep a higher paid furloughed employee on the books, say earning £2600 a month, they will have to pay the full salary and the government won't help at all?
Everything has changed. Everything. There is no coming back from this. We are all social democrats now. It has taken a tragic crisis, but we have the very real opportunity to create a better Britain. We must grasp it and not let it go.
I wonder what the check will be if a company claims 80% of a person's salary and that person carries on working at home?
How on earth will anyone know if person is still working?
No way round this but it'll be a goldmine for some companies!
Wouldn't the employee have to take a pay cut to £2k per month though? They might not be willing to do that, and most jobs that can be done from home will be carry a higher salary than that.
Yes, good point!
Also big companies aren't going to get into massive organised law breaking.
A very small company with just 3 or 4 employees might say to them we are laying you off but actually you carry on working but no company of any size would risk it as would just need one employee to report the company to HMRC / police.
Everything has changed. Everything. There is no coming back from this. We are all social democrats now. It has taken a tragic crisis, but we have the very real opportunity to create a better Britain. We must grasp it and not let it go.
So you're voting LibDem from here onwards are you?
Everything has changed. Everything. There is no coming back from this. We are all social democrats now. It has taken a tragic crisis, but we have the very real opportunity to create a better Britain. We must grasp it and not let it go.
Speak for yourself while I think these measures are absolutely necessary once its over we need to head back to fiscal sanity
Everything has changed. Everything. There is no coming back from this. We are all social democrats now. It has taken a tragic crisis, but we have the very real opportunity to create a better Britain. We must grasp it and not let it go.
Considering that he only got the job when Javid decided he wanted the the independence from Downing Street to make his mark, Sunak has been an absolute revelation.
Ok so we're comparing him to clown like Johnson and smirking monsters like Patel, but he genuinely comes across as someone serious, measured and calm. All the skills you need in a crisis. Wherever did the Tories find him?
He is a smart bloke doing the only thing a smart bloke would do in this situation. The interesting bit will be the afterwards. Right now, he has no real choices. Once the emergency passes, he will have. I am genuinely interested to see what he will do and how he starts to claw the money back. Austerity max would seem to be a non-starter. I suspect that offshore money is going to get a whole lot harder to hold in the future for both businesses and private individuals.
Sunak also increases UC standard allowance by £1000 a year as he says he still cannot promise no job losses, self employed people to access UC at rate of SSP for employees.
Self assessment patments deferred to January 2021
Rishi is demonstrating the conservative party has compassion and is prepared to support everyone irrespective of costs through this crisis
And contrary to some of your heartless posts yesterday
At times like this, Big_G, perhaps better to celebrate HYUFD’s ability to execute philosophical pirouettes every time his government adopts policies he was previously inveighing against. He is a true Tory trimmer, which is a definite part of the Tories’s historical makeup.
Yebbut normally they are more subtle about it...
It's truly a sight to behold. YouTube and Netflix may have turned down their bandwidth, happily HYUFD has not turned down the speed of his dancing on that pinhead. Which is good - we need entertaining now we can't have a beer.
Rishi's bailout of small firms needs to be made idiot-proof because a lot of small businesses are run by people who do not hold advanced degrees in accountancy and law. One or two I've known can barely tie their own shoelaces.
Second thought: suppliers of bookkeeping and payroll software may need to update quickly, which may be hard if the rules are changing weekly.
I wonder what the check will be if a company claims 80% of a person's salary and that person carries on working at home?
How on earth will anyone know if person is still working?
No way round this but it'll be a goldmine for some companies!
Wouldn't the employee have to take a pay cut to £2k per month though? They might not be willing to do that, and most jobs that can be done from home will be carry a higher salary than that.
As I understand it the company will continue to pay the full salary and the government will pay up to £2000 of it if it is above £2500.
The idea has so much potential for abuse.
You understand it wrong. it's for furloughed employees that would otherwise be paid nothing.
That seems strange.
So if a company wants to keep a higher paid furloughed employee on the books, say earning £2600 a month, they will have to pay the full salary and the government won't help at all?
I don't think it is strange. The government will pay a maximum of £2,500 for any employee.
Two furloughed employees. A earns £2,000 a month, B earns £4,000 a month. A would receive £1,600 a month from HMG, B would receive £2,500. Neither would receive anything from the employer because they are furloughed.
Sunak also increases UC standard allowance by £1000 a year as he says he still cannot promise no job losses, self employed people to access UC at rate of SSP for employees.
Self assessment patments deferred to January 2021
Rishi is demonstrating the conservative party has compassion and is prepared to support everyone irrespective of costs through this crisis
And contrary to some of your heartless posts yesterday
At times like this, Big_G, perhaps better to celebrate HYUFD’s ability to execute philosophical pirouettes every time his government adopts policies he was previously inveighing against. He is a true Tory trimmer, which is a definite part of the Tories’s historical makeup.
Sunak also increases UC standard allowance by £1000 a year as he says he still cannot promise no job losses, self employed people to access UC at rate of SSP for employees.
Self assessment patments deferred to January 2021
Rishi is demonstrating the conservative party has compassion and is prepared to support everyone irrespective of costs through this crisis
And contrary to some of your heartless posts yesterday
At times like this, Big_G, perhaps better to celebrate HYUFD’s ability to execute philosophical pirouettes every time his government adopts policies he was previously inveighing against. He is a true Tory trimmer, which is a definite part of the Tories’s historical makeup.
Some just spin a bit more slowly but they always come back to following the great leader.
I wonder what the check will be if a company claims 80% of a person's salary and that person carries on working at home?
How on earth will anyone know if person is still working?
No way round this but it'll be a goldmine for some companies!
Wouldn't the employee have to take a pay cut to £2k per month though? They might not be willing to do that, and most jobs that can be done from home will be carry a higher salary than that.
As I understand it the company will continue to pay the full salary and the government will pay up to £2000 of it if it is above £2500.
The idea has so much potential for abuse.
You understand it wrong. it's for furloughed employees that would otherwise be paid nothing.
That seems strange.
So if a company wants to keep a higher paid furloughed employee on the books, say earning £2600 a month, they will have to pay the full salary and the government won't help at all?
no the employee will sit at home not working with the maxium payout
Everything has changed. Everything. There is no coming back from this. We are all social democrats now. It has taken a tragic crisis, but we have the very real opportunity to create a better Britain. We must grasp it and not let it go.
I think that's right (at least for a decade or so anyway) I said last night I think the upshot of Covid-19 will be quite a significant move to the left and Labour are now odds on to win the 2024 general election.
Won't last for ever but for a decade or so people will be up for increased spending and revitalizing the public services.
I wonder what the check will be if a company claims 80% of a person's salary and that person carries on working at home?
How on earth will anyone know if person is still working?
No way round this but it'll be a goldmine for some companies!
Wouldn't the employee have to take a pay cut to £2k per month though? They might not be willing to do that, and most jobs that can be done from home will be carry a higher salary than that.
As I understand it the company will continue to pay the full salary and the government will pay up to £2000 of it if it is above £2500.
The idea has so much potential for abuse.
You understand it wrong. it's for furloughed employees that would otherwise be paid nothing.
That seems strange.
So if a company wants to keep a higher paid furloughed employee on the books, say earning £2600 a month, they will have to pay the full salary and the government won't help at all?
I don't think it is strange. The government will pay a maximum of £2,500 for any employee.
Two furloughed employees. A earns £2,000 a month, B earns £4,000 a month. A would receive £1,600 a month from HMG, B would receive £2,500
It makes you wonder exactly what the government know about the virus. They are throwing everything at it, with probably more to come. Mind blowing.
I was thinking that. But it doesn’t lead you anywhere concrete. Positive spin - they would not have promised something this expensive if they thought it very long term. Negative spin - this is going to be so bad it doesn’t matter what they spend.
I wonder what the check will be if a company claims 80% of a person's salary and that person carries on working at home?
How on earth will anyone know if person is still working?
No way round this but it'll be a goldmine for some companies!
Wouldn't the employee have to take a pay cut to £2k per month though? They might not be willing to do that, and most jobs that can be done from home will be carry a higher salary than that.
As I understand it the company will continue to pay the full salary and the government will pay up to £2000 of it if it is above £2500.
The idea has so much potential for abuse.
You understand it wrong. it's for furloughed employees that would otherwise be paid nothing.
That seems strange.
So if a company wants to keep a higher paid furloughed employee on the books, say earning £2600 a month, they will have to pay the full salary and the government won't help at all?
No, I think the government would subsidise up to 80% or £2.5K of any furloughed employee's monthly salary, whichever is the lower.
I wonder what the check will be if a company claims 80% of a person's salary and that person carries on working at home?
How on earth will anyone know if person is still working?
No way round this but it'll be a goldmine for some companies!
Wouldn't the employee have to take a pay cut to £2k per month though? They might not be willing to do that, and most jobs that can be done from home will be carry a higher salary than that.
As I understand it the company will continue to pay the full salary and the government will pay up to £2000 of it if it is above £2500.
The idea has so much potential for abuse.
You understand it wrong. it's for furloughed employees that would otherwise be paid nothing.
That seems strange.
So if a company wants to keep a higher paid furloughed employee on the books, say earning £2600 a month, they will have to pay the full salary and the government won't help at all?
I don't think it is strange. The government will pay a maximum of £2,500 for any employee.
Two furloughed employees. A earns £2,000 a month, B earns £4,000 a month. A would receive £1,600 a month from HMG, B would receive £2,500
That's exactly what I originally said isn't it?
You originally said
"So if a company wants to keep a higher paid furloughed employee on the books, say earning £2600 a month, they will have to pay the full salary and the government won't help at all?"
That is not true. A furloughed employee earning £2,600 would receive nothing from the employer because they are furloughed, and £2,080 from the government.
Everything has changed. Everything. There is no coming back from this. We are all social democrats now. It has taken a tragic crisis, but we have the very real opportunity to create a better Britain. We must grasp it and not let it go.
Give it a rest.
Give what a rest? The Chancellor has done exactly the right thing. I can only applaud him. And by doing the right thing now he has created the possibility of a better tomorrow. It's been a horrible 10 days personally and for the country, truly awful; now there is some hope.
Wait hold on what's going on we're on a UK wide lockdown now ?
Not quite... But very, very close to it.
No you are not you can still have dinner parties, house birthday parties, buy clothes and furniture, you can talk to your neighbours and walk in the park, take a family drive in the country. You are a long way from lockdown.
I don't think The Saj would have managed to hint the right tone which is needed at the moment. Rishi Sunak appears to sound confident, reassuring and able.
"Now more than at any time in our history, we will be judged by our capacity for compassion” Rishi Sunak says “when this is over, and it will be over, we want to look back on this moment & remember the many small acts of kindness, done by us and to us."
At the moment he appears to have a better political skill set than The Saj, but time will tell if I'm wrong.
Everything has changed. Everything. There is no coming back from this. We are all social democrats now. It has taken a tragic crisis, but we have the very real opportunity to create a better Britain. We must grasp it and not let it go.
I think that's right (at least for a decade or so anyway) I said last night I think the upshot of Covid-19 will be quite a significant move to the left and Labour are now odds on to win the 2024 general election.
Won't last for ever but for a decade or so people will be up for increased spending and revitalizing the public services.
I don't think so myself I think the tax hikes to pay for all this are going to be eye watering and there will be no public appetite to spend more. Personally I think Rishi Sunak just secured another ten years of tory rule
Wait hold on what's going on we're on a UK wide lockdown now ?
I wouldn't call it a lock-down. You can still go to Wetherspoons for a delicious burger, you'll just have to take it home to eat. If someone can find a legal way that pubs can do take-away pints they'll make a fortune
I wonder what the check will be if a company claims 80% of a person's salary and that person carries on working at home?
How on earth will anyone know if person is still working?
No way round this but it'll be a goldmine for some companies!
Wouldn't the employee have to take a pay cut to £2k per month though? They might not be willing to do that, and most jobs that can be done from home will be carry a higher salary than that.
As I understand it the company will continue to pay the full salary and the government will pay up to £2000 of it if it is above £2500.
The idea has so much potential for abuse.
You understand it wrong. it's for furloughed employees that would otherwise be paid nothing.
That seems strange.
So if a company wants to keep a higher paid furloughed employee on the books, say earning £2600 a month, they will have to pay the full salary and the government won't help at all?
No, the government will pay £2000 per month to the company to keep them on the books and they sit at home doing nothing for three months.
Considering that he only got the job when Javid decided he wanted the the independence from Downing Street to make his mark, Sunak has been an absolute revelation.
Ok so we're comparing him to clown like Johnson and smirking monsters like Patel, but he genuinely comes across as someone serious, measured and calm. All the skills you need in a crisis. Wherever did the Tories find him?
He is a smart bloke doing the only thing a smart bloke would do in this situation. The interesting bit will be the afterwards. Right now, he has no real choices. Once the emergency passes, he will have. I am genuinely interested to see what he will do and how he starts to claw the money back. Austerity max would seem to be a non-starter. I suspect that offshore money is going to get a whole lot harder to hold in the future for both businesses and private individuals.
The first world war collapsed the landowning class and led to universal suffrage
The second war led to a consensus around the state ownership of key industries, and of course the NHS.......
Covid 19.....we are in the same ballpark of epochal change...
Johnson 1000% better than yesterday but still coming across as confused. Not good enough.
Give Boris a break.
Rishi will be along in time
And they make a good combination
The trouble with backing Rishi for PM is the timescale. In what scenario is Boris forced to resign, that does not take the Chancellor down with him?
And it is especially risky given Boris and Cummings have form for mistrusting Chancellors -- two were sacked and Saj faced constructive dismissal over SpAds.
Net increase in currently positive cases is 4670. So almost 6000 new cases
The lock down is not working then
The worrying numbers are from Lombardy and Veneto, rather than the general ones. You see, it took 10-12 days from the lockdown announcement in Hubei, to reported new cases falling because of the significant timelage between infection and reporting.
My assumption was that we'd see a similar trend in Italy, with overall numbers peaking today or tomorrow, and Lombardy/Veneto peaking Wednesday/Thursday (as those regions had the initial lockdown).
But the current numbers don't show this. It's not clear why this is the case, but here are three options:
1. Italian families are larger than Chinese ones, and therefore there will be significant continued familial infection after lockdown 2. Italians are ignoring the lockdown 3. Testing is ramping up, and earlier counts were an underestimate
Everything has changed. Everything. There is no coming back from this. We are all social democrats now. It has taken a tragic crisis, but we have the very real opportunity to create a better Britain. We must grasp it and not let it go.
I think that's right (at least for a decade or so anyway) I said last night I think the upshot of Covid-19 will be quite a significant move to the left and Labour are now odds on to win the 2024 general election.
Won't last for ever but for a decade or so people will be up for increased spending and revitalizing the public services.
I think it’s too early to say. Where Boris is lucky is that he is less than 4 months into a new parliament. There are 4 long years to go. With any luck this whole sorry episode will be over and we will have returned to some kind of normality.
Though I would recognise that crises like this are engines for change and it is certainly plausible that social and cultural change is going to be pretty swift. For one thing, now the country has demonstrated that we can all work from home, surely employers are going to have to build new systems around that. I suspect we will see more and more people working remotely, and more often.
As I couldn't book my next tesco shop til a week today (when I booked them all last week), we are now nearly out of food. But in a wonderful pull together from local businesses, we have spoken to the butchers who are delivering tomorrow and have messaged the veg shop who have sent a lovely reply to say they will get a delivery to us tomorrow too! So it's got to be local all the way!
I wonder what the check will be if a company claims 80% of a person's salary and that person carries on working at home?
How on earth will anyone know if person is still working?
No way round this but it'll be a goldmine for some companies!
Wouldn't the employee have to take a pay cut to £2k per month though? They might not be willing to do that, and most jobs that can be done from home will be carry a higher salary than that.
As I understand it the company will continue to pay the full salary and the government will pay up to £2000 of it if it is above £2500.
The idea has so much potential for abuse.
You understand it wrong. it's for furloughed employees that would otherwise be paid nothing.
That seems strange.
So if a company wants to keep a higher paid furloughed employee on the books, say earning £2600 a month, they will have to pay the full salary and the government won't help at all?
I don't think it is strange. The government will pay a maximum of £2,500 for any employee.
Two furloughed employees. A earns £2,000 a month, B earns £4,000 a month. A would receive £1,600 a month from HMG, B would receive £2,500
That's exactly what I originally said isn't it?
You originally said
"So if a company wants to keep a higher paid furloughed employee on the books, say earning £2600 a month, they will have to pay the full salary and the government won't help at all?"
That is not true. A furloughed employee earning £2,600 would receive nothing from the employer because they are furloughed, and £2,080 from the government.
Ah right I see.
So there's no way of the employer topping up the wages for the furloughed employee to the full amount even if they wanted to. The company has to pay the whole amount themselves or the employee gets the government amount and no more.
That is what I found strange, I would have thought the government would have wanted the company to continue to pay something for these employees as well.
It makes you wonder exactly what the government know about the virus. They are throwing everything at it, with probably more to come. Mind blowing.
I think it's more about the economy tbh. The virus is going to be bad but we can, with suitable lockdown, contain it. Certainly the data from Italy are not great but clearly lockdowns can work (cf China / Hong Kong/ Korea). We are, I think, doing a lot more work from home than Italy were at the equivalent stage of their epidemic so I keep my fingers crossed that we will get through relatively (it is all relative - it will still be bad) okay with respect to the number of deaths.
But the economic consequences of this lockdown will be dire. Hence, without the economic measures the country would be completely screwed when we come through this and move on.
I feel a bit (actually quite a lot) happier after the statement earlier that we will have a functional (very different - but not necessarily worse) country at the other side - which, as @SouthamObserver writes is critical.
Covid 19 is going hell for leather to bring down global capitalism....if it was interested in killing people it would have taken a sideways move into Africa like Ebola...
Surely the big problem is that, when the government says "okay, back to normal", it won't be that simple. Even if this was all over (economically) in 12 weeks, there is going to be a massive recession. Unemployment will go up, and house prices might actually go down.
I missed most of the press conference, that £1,000 increase for universal credit is that just for new claimants or is it for existing claimants as well?
Net increase in currently positive cases is 4670. So almost 6000 new cases
The lock down is not working then
The worrying numbers are from Lombardy and Veneto, rather than the general ones. You see, it took 10-12 days from the lockdown announcement in Hubei, to reported new cases falling because of the significant timelage between infection and reporting.
My assumption was that we'd see a similar trend in Italy, with overall numbers peaking today or tomorrow, and Lombardy/Veneto peaking Wednesday/Thursday (as those regions had the initial lockdown).
But the current numbers don't show this. It's not clear why this is the case, but here are three options:
1. Italian families are larger than Chinese ones, and therefore there will be significant continued familial infection after lockdown 2. Italians are ignoring the lockdown 3. Testing is ramping up, and earlier counts were an underestimate
I wonder what the check will be if a company claims 80% of a person's salary and that person carries on working at home?
How on earth will anyone know if person is still working?
No way round this but it'll be a goldmine for some companies!
Wouldn't the employee have to take a pay cut to £2k per month though? They might not be willing to do that, and most jobs that can be done from home will be carry a higher salary than that.
As I understand it the company will continue to pay the full salary and the government will pay up to £2000 of it if it is above £2500.
The idea has so much potential for abuse.
You understand it wrong. it's for furloughed employees that would otherwise be paid nothing.
That seems strange.
So if a company wants to keep a higher paid furloughed employee on the books, say earning £2600 a month, they will have to pay the full salary and the government won't help at all?
I don't think it is strange. The government will pay a maximum of £2,500 for any employee.
Two furloughed employees. A earns £2,000 a month, B earns £4,000 a month. A would receive £1,600 a month from HMG, B would receive £2,500
That's exactly what I originally said isn't it?
You originally said
"So if a company wants to keep a higher paid furloughed employee on the books, say earning £2600 a month, they will have to pay the full salary and the government won't help at all?"
That is not true. A furloughed employee earning £2,600 would receive nothing from the employer because they are furloughed, and £2,080 from the government.
Ah right I see.
So there's no way of the employer topping up the wages for the furloughed employee to the full amount even if they wanted to. The company has to pay the whole amount themselves or the employee gets the government amount and no more.
That is what I found strange, I would have thought the government would have wanted the company to continue to pay something for these employees as well.
That's right. It's for furloughed employees only. The requirement to have the employers pay 20% may have bankrupted too many to make it worthwhile.
As I couldn't book my next tesco shop til a week today (when I booked them all last week), we are now nearly out of food. But in a wonderful pull together from local businesses, we have spoken to the butchers who are delivering tomorrow and have messaged the veg shop who have sent a lovely reply to say they will get a delivery to us tomorrow too! So it's got to be local all the way!
Really things are going to change in a big way
What has been increasingly clear is that people have far more chance getting what they want in convenience stores. Which hopefully keeps the smaller businesses thriving which is good!
I bet Jezza can't believe he's missed out on this opportunity for massive state spending and government intervention.
Would have been manna from heaven if only it hadn't been for the pesky voters...
The genius of democracy. Truly we have dodged a bullet by not having Corbyn and Milne and co in charge of this national crisis.
Truly that is partisan nonsense. Read the Conservative manifesto and realise Boris was going to shake the magic money tree even before the corona virus was a twinkle in a pangolin's eye. Boris won by being a better Corbyn than Jeremy Corbyn, and by opposing Cameron and May.
Clearly the governments we prefer are either Labour governments implementing conservative policies or Conservative governments implementing socialist ones.
Everything has changed. Everything. There is no coming back from this. We are all social democrats now. It has taken a tragic crisis, but we have the very real opportunity to create a better Britain. We must grasp it and not let it go.
Give it a rest.
Actually, I think @SouthamObserver might be on to something here. This will change our country fundamentally. First, this experience will be formative - no-one under 70 has experienced anything like this before. Second, the role of the state in helping people get through it. Third, hopefully, as we get through this (which we will!) better community spirit. Financially it's going to be tough on the balance sheet, but the debt will be much better than a massive depression on the other side.
I expect the country to change but I think it will be more socially and technically
More working remotely which will spread wealth to poorer regions
More firms looking at making supply chains shorter and more diverse
More firms tooling up so they can change what they manufacture more easily instead of just being a firm that makes widget x
Less foreign travel
Higher taxes but trimmed back non essential services
On VAT, we always make reclaims. I hope he's not going to defer payment of those !
Presumably it's the filing deadline. So if your return results in a net refund, then you can file, whereas if it results in a net payment you can delay.
I bet Jezza can't believe he's missed out on this opportunity for massive state spending and government intervention.
Would have been manna from heaven if only it hadn't been for the pesky voters...
The genius of democracy. Truly we have dodged a bullet by not having Corbyn and Milne and co in charge of this national crisis.
Truly that is partisan nonsense. Read the Conservative manifesto and realise Boris was going to shake the magic money tree even before the corona virus was a twinkle in a pangolin's eye. Boris won by being a better Corbyn than Jeremy Corbyn, and by opposing Cameron and May.
Clearly the governments we prefer are either Labour governments implementing conservative policies or Conservative governments implementing socialist ones.
I have got to say, fair play to the government with the announcement today. I know they’ll be pored over on here, and there are still questions for the self-employed, but we needed this today.
1. Italian families are larger than Chinese ones, and therefore there will be significant continued familial infection after lockdown 2. Italians are ignoring the lockdown 3. Testing is ramping up, and earlier counts were an underestimate
For #3, yep they're testing a lot more over the last 3 days (+17k, +17k, +24k). They only broke +10k nine days ago, and as recently as the 5th it was just +3k.
Everything has changed. Everything. There is no coming back from this. We are all social democrats now. It has taken a tragic crisis, but we have the very real opportunity to create a better Britain. We must grasp it and not let it go.
Give it a rest.
Give what a rest? The Chancellor has done exactly the right thing. I can only applaud him. And by doing the right thing now he has created the possibility of a better tomorrow. It's been a horrible 10 days personally and for the country, truly awful; now there is some hope.
Regrettably, I don't share your optimism at all. This is not a change in policy: it is an act of desperation to avoid economic and social collapse. It can only last for as long as the state is able to sustain it.
As I couldn't book my next tesco shop til a week today (when I booked them all last week), we are now nearly out of food. But in a wonderful pull together from local businesses, we have spoken to the butchers who are delivering tomorrow and have messaged the veg shop who have sent a lovely reply to say they will get a delivery to us tomorrow too! So it's got to be local all the way!
Really things are going to change in a big way
What has been increasingly clear is that people have far more chance getting what they want in convenience stores. Which hopefully keeps the smaller businesses thriving which is good!
Yes, this panic buying is getting really annoying now. You can’t even order toilet paper three weeks ahead with Waitrose.
I haven’t been panic buying. I have just very calmly been buying more of everything.
As I couldn't book my next tesco shop til a week today (when I booked them all last week), we are now nearly out of food. But in a wonderful pull together from local businesses, we have spoken to the butchers who are delivering tomorrow and have messaged the veg shop who have sent a lovely reply to say they will get a delivery to us tomorrow too! So it's got to be local all the way!
Really things are going to change in a big way
What has been increasingly clear is that people have far more chance getting what they want in convenience stores. Which hopefully keeps the smaller businesses thriving which is good!
Everything has changed. Everything. There is no coming back from this. We are all social democrats now. It has taken a tragic crisis, but we have the very real opportunity to create a better Britain. We must grasp it and not let it go.
I think that's right (at least for a decade or so anyway) I said last night I think the upshot of Covid-19 will be quite a significant move to the left and Labour are now odds on to win the 2024 general election.
Won't last for ever but for a decade or so people will be up for increased spending and revitalizing the public services.
That could well be true. Alternatively, the Tories are demonstrating that when necessary they are prepared to spend as big as any Corbynite, in which case what is the point of the Labour Party? Flexibility and adaptability are clearly more desirable electoral characteristics than unchanging dogma.
Everything has changed. Everything. There is no coming back from this. We are all social democrats now. It has taken a tragic crisis, but we have the very real opportunity to create a better Britain. We must grasp it and not let it go.
Give it a rest.
Actually, I think @SouthamObserver might be on to something here. This will change our country fundamentally. First, this experience will be formative - no-one under 70 has experienced anything like this before. Second, the role of the state in helping people get through it. Third, hopefully, as we get through this (which we will!) better community spirit. Financially it's going to be tough on the balance sheet, but the debt will be much better than a massive depression on the other side.
That is if excessive spending doesn't have any downsides, like massive currency depreciation and inflation.
I have to admit to being uncomfortable with this package, but I seem to be in a very small minority on here.
As I couldn't book my next tesco shop til a week today (when I booked them all last week), we are now nearly out of food. But in a wonderful pull together from local businesses, we have spoken to the butchers who are delivering tomorrow and have messaged the veg shop who have sent a lovely reply to say they will get a delivery to us tomorrow too! So it's got to be local all the way!
Really things are going to change in a big way
What has been increasingly clear is that people have far more chance getting what they want in convenience stores. Which hopefully keeps the smaller businesses thriving which is good!
Yes, this panic buying is getting really annoying now. You can’t even order toilet paper three weeks ahead with Waitrose.
I haven’t been panic buying. I have just very calmly been buying more of everything.
I have been panic buying. The trick is to do it weeks before everyone else.
It might be timing of release of data for the last data point.
Or the last few days have been ‘catch up’, testing all the people they refused to test before, and now the curve is returning to the underlying growth rate?
Looking at the figures - every 3 days the rest of the world are having the same amount of deaths as China accumulated over the period of their outbreak.
That's if you believe the Chinese figures of course
Everything has changed. Everything. There is no coming back from this. We are all social democrats now. It has taken a tragic crisis, but we have the very real opportunity to create a better Britain. We must grasp it and not let it go.
Give it a rest.
Actually, I think @SouthamObserver might be on to something here. This will change our country fundamentally. First, this experience will be formative - no-one under 70 has experienced anything like this before. Second, the role of the state in helping people get through it. Third, hopefully, as we get through this (which we will!) better community spirit. Financially it's going to be tough on the balance sheet, but the debt will be much better than a massive depression on the other side.
That is if excessive spending doesn't have any downsides, like massive currency depreciation and inflation.
I have to admit to being uncomfortable with this package, but I seem to be in a very small minority on here.
The only alternative is smaller debt and smaller GDP. Which ultimately leads to larger debt.
As I couldn't book my next tesco shop til a week today (when I booked them all last week), we are now nearly out of food. But in a wonderful pull together from local businesses, we have spoken to the butchers who are delivering tomorrow and have messaged the veg shop who have sent a lovely reply to say they will get a delivery to us tomorrow too! So it's got to be local all the way!
Really things are going to change in a big way
What has been increasingly clear is that people have far more chance getting what they want in convenience stores. Which hopefully keeps the smaller businesses thriving which is good!
Yes, this panic buying is getting really annoying now. You can’t even order toilet paper three weeks ahead with Waitrose.
I haven’t been panic buying. I have just very calmly been buying more of everything.
I have been panic buying. The trick is to do it weeks before everyone else.
Like you I could see this coming and stocked up in advance
We have a reserve we do not touch and just buy enough now to see us through a week
Mind you loo rolls and soap we are eating into the reserve :-)
Everything has changed. Everything. There is no coming back from this. We are all social democrats now. It has taken a tragic crisis, but we have the very real opportunity to create a better Britain. We must grasp it and not let it go.
Give it a rest.
Actually, I think @SouthamObserver might be on to something here. This will change our country fundamentally. First, this experience will be formative - no-one under 70 has experienced anything like this before. Second, the role of the state in helping people get through it. Third, hopefully, as we get through this (which we will!) better community spirit. Financially it's going to be tough on the balance sheet, but the debt will be much better than a massive depression on the other side.
That is if excessive spending doesn't have any downsides, like massive currency depreciation and inflation.
I have to admit to being uncomfortable with this package, but I seem to be in a very small minority on here.
I think you can at once have both sympathy for the position people and the government find themselves in, and concern about what this means for the future.
Everything has changed. Everything. There is no coming back from this. We are all social democrats now. It has taken a tragic crisis, but we have the very real opportunity to create a better Britain. We must grasp it and not let it go. Give it a rest.
Actually, I think @SouthamObserver might be on to something here. This will change our country fundamentally. First, this experience will be formative - no-one under 70 has experienced anything like this before. Second, the role of the state in helping people get through it. Third, hopefully, as we get through this (which we will!) better community spirit. Financially it's going to be tough on the balance sheet, but the debt will be much better than a massive depression on the other side.
I expect the country to change but I think it will be more socially and technically
More working remotely which will spread wealth to poorer regions
More firms looking at making supply chains shorter and more diverse
More firms tooling up so they can change what they manufacture more easily instead of just being a firm that makes widget x
Less foreign travel
Higher taxes but trimmed back non essential services
Nice to see someone thinking. (I have quibbles, but this is a good post)
And peak London. Living outside the capital will seem so much more attractive.
Edit/ why is the new vanilla putting in all these extra close blockquotes?
Net increase in currently positive cases is 4670. So almost 6000 new cases
The lock down is not working then
The worrying numbers are from Lombardy and Veneto, rather than the general ones. You see, it took 10-12 days from the lockdown announcement in Hubei, to reported new cases falling because of the significant timelage between infection and reporting.
My assumption was that we'd see a similar trend in Italy, with overall numbers peaking today or tomorrow, and Lombardy/Veneto peaking Wednesday/Thursday (as those regions had the initial lockdown).
But the current numbers don't show this. It's not clear why this is the case, but here are three options:
1. Italian families are larger than Chinese ones, and therefore there will be significant continued familial infection after lockdown 2. Italians are ignoring the lockdown 3. Testing is ramping up, and earlier counts were an underestimate
Comments
In practice, QE will cover a lot of it. Normally one might be worried about this leading to inflation, but there is so much deflationary pressure as a result of the crisis that that's not a worry for now at least.
I think 200% puts us in the region of where we are going.....it is not just increased spending, but a a catastrophic reduction in tax collection over an increasingly sustained period.....
I wonder if China will come out with a Marshall Plan to resuscitate the global economy
Johnson 1000% better than yesterday but still coming across as confused. Not good enough.
So if a company wants to keep a higher paid furloughed employee on the books, say earning £2600 a month, they will have to pay the full salary and the government won't help at all?
Also big companies aren't going to get into massive organised law breaking.
A very small company with just 3 or 4 employees might say to them we are laying you off but actually you carry on working but no company of any size would risk it as would just need one employee to report the company to HMRC / police.
Rishi will be along in time
And they make a good combination
Second thought: suppliers of bookkeeping and payroll software may need to update quickly, which may be hard if the rules are changing weekly.
Two furloughed employees. A earns £2,000 a month, B earns £4,000 a month. A would receive £1,600 a month from HMG, B would receive £2,500. Neither would receive anything from the employer because they are furloughed.
Is it all of them, everywhere?
Won't last for ever but for a decade or so people will be up for increased spending and revitalizing the public services.
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2611139479012028&id=198281280297872?sfnsn=scwspwa&d=w&vh=e&extid=GwuhpW576GFgeIsh&d=w&vh=e
"So if a company wants to keep a higher paid furloughed employee on the books, say earning £2600 a month, they will have to pay the full salary and the government won't help at all?"
That is not true. A furloughed employee earning £2,600 would receive nothing from the employer because they are furloughed, and £2,080 from the government.
"Now more than at any time in our history, we will be judged by our capacity for compassion” Rishi Sunak says “when this is over, and it will be over, we want to look back on this moment & remember the many small acts of kindness, done by us and to us."
At the moment he appears to have a better political skill set than The Saj, but time will tell if I'm wrong.
Apparently.
The second war led to a consensus around the state ownership of key industries, and of course the NHS.......
Covid 19.....we are in the same ballpark of epochal change...
And it is especially risky given Boris and Cummings have form for mistrusting Chancellors -- two were sacked and Saj faced constructive dismissal over SpAds.
My assumption was that we'd see a similar trend in Italy, with overall numbers peaking today or tomorrow, and Lombardy/Veneto peaking Wednesday/Thursday (as those regions had the initial lockdown).
But the current numbers don't show this. It's not clear why this is the case, but here are three options:
1. Italian families are larger than Chinese ones, and therefore there will be significant continued familial infection after lockdown
2. Italians are ignoring the lockdown
3. Testing is ramping up, and earlier counts were an underestimate
Any - or all - of these could be a factor.
Though I would recognise that crises like this are engines for change and it is certainly plausible that social and cultural change is going to be pretty swift. For one thing, now the country has demonstrated that we can all work from home, surely employers are going to have to build new systems around that. I suspect we will see more and more people working remotely, and more often.
As I couldn't book my next tesco shop til a week today (when I booked them all last week), we are now nearly out of food. But in a wonderful pull together from local businesses, we have spoken to the butchers who are delivering tomorrow and have messaged the veg shop who have sent a lovely reply to say they will get a delivery to us tomorrow too! So it's got to be local all the way!
Really things are going to change in a big way
So there's no way of the employer topping up the wages for the furloughed employee to the full amount even if they wanted to. The company has to pay the whole amount themselves or the employee gets the government amount and no more.
That is what I found strange, I would have thought the government would have wanted the company to continue to pay something for these employees as well.
More working remotely which will spread wealth to poorer regions
More firms looking at making supply chains shorter and more diverse
More firms tooling up so they can change what they manufacture more easily instead of just being a firm that makes widget x
Less foreign travel
Higher taxes but trimmed back non essential services
For #3, yep they're testing a lot more over the last 3 days (+17k, +17k, +24k). They only broke +10k nine days ago, and as recently as the 5th it was just +3k.
I haven’t been panic buying. I have just very calmly been buying more of everything.
'It's got to be local all the way'
I have to admit to being uncomfortable with this package, but I seem to be in a very small minority on here.
That's if you believe the Chinese figures of course
(couldn't work out the blockquotes)
Nice to see someone thinking. (I have quibbles, but this is a good post)
We have a reserve we do not touch and just buy enough now to see us through a week
Mind you loo rolls and soap we are eating into the reserve :-)
Johnson doesn't deserve a break, he is currently the weak link.
Edit/ why is the new vanilla putting in all these extra close blockquotes?
https://twitter.com/TIME/status/1240889102804889600
You can't do a half-hearted lockdown and expect it to as effective as the Chinese example.