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  • RobD said:

    RobD said:

    I’m not arguing whether the experts are wrong, but the way the information is being presented is poor, and causing unnecessary confusion.

    Watch Macron simply tell people how it is. Watch Boris and Trump waffle.

    I don't think they're waffling, I think that's harsh, they're saying it as it is.

    What do you think is waffling?
    Macron: “This is what we’re doing, these are the steps taken to mitigate the damage.”

    Johnson: “oh umm, maybe don’t socialise” “what about businesses that will go bust?” “🤷‍♂️“
    You do yourself no favours, as the advice was far stronger than that. You are correct that more needs to be said about what will be done to help businesses.
    Well its clearly the message is not getting through as no-one I have spoken to offline knows what the hell they are supposed to be doing or not doing.
    Did they watch it? It was pretty clear they want you to reduce social interaction. They aren't banning you from doing it, primarily because people should be responsible, and second it would be a huge drain on resources to enforce it.
    What the hell does “reduce social interaction” mean?
    To be honest I cannot see how anyone has a problem understanding that
    Well answer my question then:

    Does it mean reduce, or does it mean zero social interaction outside those who live within your home?
    It means reduce not zero as that is impossible unless someone has the symptons

    BBC have said that if the public do not react there will be compulsion but in that case police and others will have undesirable added duties

    Time for everyone to be responsible and grown up
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676

    TimT said:

    I think I am going to leave this site for at least a couple of weeks. So much is uncertain about the data and outcomes at this stage, and yet so many on this site seem to be able to speak with moral outrage at the decisions of our public health officials who are working around the clock on an extraordinarily difficult and complex set of problems for which there are no good or right answers.

    I refuse to believe that those officials are either evil or heartless or incompetent, which are assumptions underlying many of the comments on here.

    Please do not give in to the keyboard warriors Like me earlier.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    I’m not arguing whether the experts are wrong, but the way the information is being presented is poor, and causing unnecessary confusion.

    Watch Macron simply tell people how it is. Watch Boris and Trump waffle.

    I don't think they're waffling, I think that's harsh, they're saying it as it is.

    What do you think is waffling?
    Macron: “This is what we’re doing, these are the steps taken to mitigate the damage.”

    Johnson: “oh umm, maybe don’t socialise” “what about businesses that will go bust?” “🤷‍♂️“
    You do yourself no favours, as the advice was far stronger than that. You are correct that more needs to be said about what will be done to help businesses.
    Well its clearly the message is not getting through as no-one I have spoken to offline knows what the hell they are supposed to be doing or not doing.
    Did they watch it? It was pretty clear they want you to reduce social interaction. They aren't banning you from doing it, primarily because people should be responsible, and second it would be a huge drain on resources to enforce it.
    What the hell does “reduce social interaction” mean?
    To be honest I cannot see how anyone has a problem understanding that
    Well answer my question then:

    Does it mean reduce, or does it mean zero social interaction outside those who live within your home?
    It means reduce, its not a ban. Avoid unnecessary social interactions but treating the public as sentient thinking grown ups.
    What is a “necessary” social interaction?
    Does the government have to tell you exactly how to run your life or something? You have to make a judgement yourself on this. A necessary interaction might be buying groceries, or visiting someone who is on their deathbed. It's not going for a piss up down the pub.
    I’m sorry but you’re living in an idealistic dreamworld if you think people will not just interpret it as they want, unless explicitly told.

    This apologism for the government’s shirking of responsibility is ridiculous. It’s their job to tell us what to do in times of trouble, not to pass the buck.

    “You went round to somebody else’s house for tea so it’s your fault your dead.”
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited March 2020

    Too much information revealing this modelling information?

    This has sent me straight back into the pits of despair and depression.

    This is why I don't think it is necessarily a good idea to see all this advice.

    Imagine see all the projections for deaths in WWII...You would probably just surrender to Hitler and think learning German can't be that hard.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    I’m not arguing whether the experts are wrong, but the way the information is being presented is poor, and causing unnecessary confusion.

    Watch Macron simply tell people how it is. Watch Boris and Trump waffle.

    I don't think they're waffling, I think that's harsh, they're saying it as it is.

    What do you think is waffling?
    Macron: “This is what we’re doing, these are the steps taken to mitigate the damage.”

    Johnson: “oh umm, maybe don’t socialise” “what about businesses that will go bust?” “🤷‍♂️“
    You do yourself no favours, as the advice was far stronger than that. You are correct that more needs to be said about what will be done to help businesses.
    Well its clearly the message is not getting through as no-one I have spoken to offline knows what the hell they are supposed to be doing or not doing.
    Did they watch it? It was pretty clear they want you to reduce social interaction. They aren't banning you from doing it, primarily because people should be responsible, and second it would be a huge drain on resources to enforce it.
    What the hell does “reduce social interaction” mean?
    To be honest I cannot see how anyone has a problem understanding that
    Well answer my question then:

    Does it mean reduce, or does it mean zero social interaction outside those who live within your home?
    It means reduce, its not a ban. Avoid unnecessary social interactions but treating the public as sentient thinking grown ups.
    What is a “necessary” social interaction?
    Does the government have to tell you exactly how to run your life or something? You have to make a judgement yourself on this. A necessary interaction might be buying groceries, or visiting someone who is on their deathbed. It's not going for a piss up down the pub.
    I’m sorry but you’re living in an idealistic dreamworld if you think people will not just interpret it as they want, unless explicitly told.

    This apologism for the government’s shirking of responsibility is ridiculous. It’s their job to tell us what to do in times of trouble, not to pass the buck.

    “You went round to somebody else’s house for tea so it’s your fault your dead.”
    They are telling you what to do. To reduce social interaction. Only you seem to be missing this point.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    I’m not arguing whether the experts are wrong, but the way the information is being presented is poor, and causing unnecessary confusion.

    Watch Macron simply tell people how it is. Watch Boris and Trump waffle.

    I don't think they're waffling, I think that's harsh, they're saying it as it is.

    What do you think is waffling?
    Macron: “This is what we’re doing, these are the steps taken to mitigate the damage.”

    Johnson: “oh umm, maybe don’t socialise” “what about businesses that will go bust?” “🤷‍♂️“
    You do yourself no favours, as the advice was far stronger than that. You are correct that more needs to be said about what will be done to help businesses.
    Well its clearly the message is not getting through as no-one I have spoken to offline knows what the hell they are supposed to be doing or not doing.
    Did they watch it? It was pretty clear they want you to reduce social interaction. They aren't banning you from doing it, primarily because people should be responsible, and second it would be a huge drain on resources to enforce it.
    What the hell does “reduce social interaction” mean?
    To be honest I cannot see how anyone has a problem understanding that
    Well answer my question then:

    Does it mean reduce, or does it mean zero social interaction outside those who live within your home?
    It means reduce, its not a ban. Avoid unnecessary social interactions but treating the public as sentient thinking grown ups.
    What is a “necessary” social interaction?
    Does the government have to tell you exactly how to run your life or something? You have to make a judgement yourself on this. A necessary interaction might be buying groceries, or visiting someone who is on their deathbed. It's not going for a piss up down the pub.
    I’m sorry but you’re living in an idealistic dreamworld if you think people will not just interpret it as they want, unless explicitly told.

    This apologism for the government’s shirking of responsibility is ridiculous. It’s their job to tell us what to do in times of trouble, not to pass the buck.

    “You went round to somebody else’s house for tea so it’s your fault your dead.”
    They are telling you what to do. To reduce social interaction. Only you seem to be missing this point.
    You’re beyond parody.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    I’m not arguing whether the experts are wrong, but the way the information is being presented is poor, and causing unnecessary confusion.

    Watch Macron simply tell people how it is. Watch Boris and Trump waffle.

    I don't think they're waffling, I think that's harsh, they're saying it as it is.

    What do you think is waffling?
    Macron: “This is what we’re doing, these are the steps taken to mitigate the damage.”

    Johnson: “oh umm, maybe don’t socialise” “what about businesses that will go bust?” “🤷‍♂️“
    You do yourself no favours, as the advice was far stronger than that. You are correct that more needs to be said about what will be done to help businesses.
    Well its clearly the message is not getting through as no-one I have spoken to offline knows what the hell they are supposed to be doing or not doing.
    Did they watch it? It was pretty clear they want you to reduce social interaction. They aren't banning you from doing it, primarily because people should be responsible, and second it would be a huge drain on resources to enforce it.
    What the hell does “reduce social interaction” mean?
    To be honest I cannot see how anyone has a problem understanding that
    Well answer my question then:

    Does it mean reduce, or does it mean zero social interaction outside those who live within your home?
    It means reduce, its not a ban. Avoid unnecessary social interactions but treating the public as sentient thinking grown ups.
    What is a “necessary” social interaction?
    Does the government have to tell you exactly how to run your life or something? You have to make a judgement yourself on this. A necessary interaction might be buying groceries, or visiting someone who is on their deathbed. It's not going for a piss up down the pub.
    I’m sorry but you’re living in an idealistic dreamworld if you think people will not just interpret it as they want, unless explicitly told.

    This apologism for the government’s shirking of responsibility is ridiculous. It’s their job to tell us what to do in times of trouble, not to pass the buck.

    “You went round to somebody else’s house for tea so it’s your fault your dead.”
    Lol well said Gallowgate.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
    edited March 2020

    HYUFD said:

    I’m not arguing whether the experts are wrong, but the way the information is being presented is poor, and causing unnecessary confusion.

    Watch Macron simply tell people how it is. Watch Boris and Trump waffle.

    I don't think they're waffling, I think that's harsh, they're saying it as it is.

    What do you think is waffling?
    Macron: “This is what we’re doing, these are the steps taken to mitigate the damage.”

    Johnson: “oh umm, maybe don’t socialise” “what about businesses that will go bust?” “🤷‍♂️“
    £30 billion stimulus announced in the budget, funds for sick pay etc done before any French stimulus
    Sick pay is an irrelevance. The fact you can’t see that just says it all.

    30b stimulus is also an irrelevance.
    Sick pay is not an irrelevance, if you cannot work at home it will be what you are surviving on for the next few months
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited March 2020

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    I’m not arguing whether the experts are wrong, but the way the information is being presented is poor, and causing unnecessary confusion.

    Watch Macron simply tell people how it is. Watch Boris and Trump waffle.

    I don't think they're waffling, I think that's harsh, they're saying it as it is.

    What do you think is waffling?
    Macron: “This is what we’re doing, these are the steps taken to mitigate the damage.”

    Johnson: “oh umm, maybe don’t socialise” “what about businesses that will go bust?” “🤷‍♂️“
    You do yourself no favours, as the advice was far stronger than that. You are correct that more needs to be said about what will be done to help businesses.
    Well its clearly the message is not getting through as no-one I have spoken to offline knows what the hell they are supposed to be doing or not doing.
    Did they watch it? It was pretty clear they want you to reduce social interaction. They aren't banning you from doing it, primarily because people should be responsible, and second it would be a huge drain on resources to enforce it.
    What the hell does “reduce social interaction” mean?
    To be honest I cannot see how anyone has a problem understanding that
    Well answer my question then:

    Does it mean reduce, or does it mean zero social interaction outside those who live within your home?
    It means reduce, its not a ban. Avoid unnecessary social interactions but treating the public as sentient thinking grown ups.
    What is a “necessary” social interaction?
    Does the government have to tell you exactly how to run your life or something? You have to make a judgement yourself on this. A necessary interaction might be buying groceries, or visiting someone who is on their deathbed. It's not going for a piss up down the pub.
    I’m sorry but you’re living in an idealistic dreamworld if you think people will not just interpret it as they want, unless explicitly told.

    This apologism for the government’s shirking of responsibility is ridiculous. It’s their job to tell us what to do in times of trouble, not to pass the buck.

    “You went round to somebody else’s house for tea so it’s your fault your dead.”
    I swear my daughter has more common sense than you're displaying here and she's only five.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    I’m not arguing whether the experts are wrong, but the way the information is being presented is poor, and causing unnecessary confusion.

    Watch Macron simply tell people how it is. Watch Boris and Trump waffle.

    I don't think they're waffling, I think that's harsh, they're saying it as it is.

    What do you think is waffling?
    Macron: “This is what we’re doing, these are the steps taken to mitigate the damage.”

    Johnson: “oh umm, maybe don’t socialise” “what about businesses that will go bust?” “🤷‍♂️“
    You do yourself no favours, as the advice was far stronger than that. You are correct that more needs to be said about what will be done to help businesses.
    Well its clearly the message is not getting through as no-one I have spoken to offline knows what the hell they are supposed to be doing or not doing.
    Did they watch it? It was pretty clear they want you to reduce social interaction. They aren't banning you from doing it, primarily because people should be responsible, and second it would be a huge drain on resources to enforce it.
    What the hell does “reduce social interaction” mean?
    To be honest I cannot see how anyone has a problem understanding that
    Well answer my question then:

    Does it mean reduce, or does it mean zero social interaction outside those who live within your home?
    It means reduce, its not a ban. Avoid unnecessary social interactions but treating the public as sentient thinking grown ups.
    What is a “necessary” social interaction?
    Does the government have to tell you exactly how to run your life or something? You have to make a judgement yourself on this. A necessary interaction might be buying groceries, or visiting someone who is on their deathbed. It's not going for a piss up down the pub.
    I’m sorry but you’re living in an idealistic dreamworld if you think people will not just interpret it as they want, unless explicitly told.

    This apologism for the government’s shirking of responsibility is ridiculous. It’s their job to tell us what to do in times of trouble, not to pass the buck.

    “You went round to somebody else’s house for tea so it’s your fault your dead.”
    They are telling you what to do. To reduce social interaction. Only you seem to be missing this point.
    You’re beyond parody.
    How on earth could you misconstrue that advice to mean anything other than that?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    I’m not arguing whether the experts are wrong, but the way the information is being presented is poor, and causing unnecessary confusion.

    Watch Macron simply tell people how it is. Watch Boris and Trump waffle.

    I don't think they're waffling, I think that's harsh, they're saying it as it is.

    What do you think is waffling?
    Macron: “This is what we’re doing, these are the steps taken to mitigate the damage.”

    Johnson: “oh umm, maybe don’t socialise” “what about businesses that will go bust?” “🤷‍♂️“
    You do yourself no favours, as the advice was far stronger than that. You are correct that more needs to be said about what will be done to help businesses.
    Well its clearly the message is not getting through as no-one I have spoken to offline knows what the hell they are supposed to be doing or not doing.
    Did they watch it? It was pretty clear they want you to reduce social interaction. They aren't banning you from doing it, primarily because people should be responsible, and second it would be a huge drain on resources to enforce it.
    What the hell does “reduce social interaction” mean?
    To be honest I cannot see how anyone has a problem understanding that
    Well answer my question then:

    Does it mean reduce, or does it mean zero social interaction outside those who live within your home?
    It means reduce, its not a ban. Avoid unnecessary social interactions but treating the public as sentient thinking grown ups.
    What is a “necessary” social interaction?
    Going down the pub isn’t.
    Visiting your parent to provide essential care is.

    Draw your own line somewhere between those two,
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,491
    Pulpstar said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    I’m not arguing whether the experts are wrong, but the way the information is being presented is poor, and causing unnecessary confusion.

    Watch Macron simply tell people how it is. Watch Boris and Trump waffle.

    I don't think they're waffling, I think that's harsh, they're saying it as it is.

    What do you think is waffling?
    Macron: “This is what we’re doing, these are the steps taken to mitigate the damage.”

    Johnson: “oh umm, maybe don’t socialise” “what about businesses that will go bust?” “🤷‍♂️“
    You do yourself no favours, as the advice was far stronger than that. You are correct that more needs to be said about what will be done to help businesses.
    Well its clearly the message is not getting through as no-one I have spoken to offline knows what the hell they are supposed to be doing or not doing.
    Did they watch it? It was pretty clear they want you to reduce social interaction. They aren't banning you from doing it, primarily because people should be responsible, and second it would be a huge drain on resources to enforce it.
    What the hell does “reduce social interaction” mean?
    Give the gym/bridge club/pub a miss.
    Does anyone under 90 play bridge?
  • TimT, I hope you don't leave. I've always found your contributions to be quite excellent, and appreciate your expertise in certain areas.

    I quite agree with you about amateur epidemiologists. Even those professional ones who aren't on the inside with respect to the data should probably keep quiet on detail. The amateurs should just be plain ignored.

    For myself, I'm trying limit my hours of reading about coronavirus to afternoons and early-ish evenings only. It keeps both fear and anger in check, I'm finding.

    Best wishes to you all.

    --AS
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    I’m not arguing whether the experts are wrong, but the way the information is being presented is poor, and causing unnecessary confusion.

    Watch Macron simply tell people how it is. Watch Boris and Trump waffle.

    I don't think they're waffling, I think that's harsh, they're saying it as it is.

    What do you think is waffling?
    Macron: “This is what we’re doing, these are the steps taken to mitigate the damage.”

    Johnson: “oh umm, maybe don’t socialise” “what about businesses that will go bust?” “🤷‍♂️“
    You do yourself no favours, as the advice was far stronger than that. You are correct that more needs to be said about what will be done to help businesses.
    Well its clearly the message is not getting through as no-one I have spoken to offline knows what the hell they are supposed to be doing or not doing.
    Did they watch it? It was pretty clear they want you to reduce social interaction. They aren't banning you from doing it, primarily because people should be responsible, and second it would be a huge drain on resources to enforce it.
    What the hell does “reduce social interaction” mean?
    Seriously? Not socialising with other people.
    I think the government have to give it a few days, see if people are taking it seriously. If it looks like a significant number are taking the piss, then they'll have to get tough.
    Yes, that’s right. Indeed they explicitly left that option open if people start taking the piss, as you say. But, I think the penny will drop by morning when people read the front pages.
  • GideonWiseGideonWise Posts: 1,123

    Too much information revealing this modelling information?

    This has sent me straight back into the pits of despair and depression.

    This is why I don't think it is necessarily a good idea to see all this advice.

    Imagine see all the projections for deaths in WWII...You would probably just surrender to Hitler and think learning German can't be that hard.
    I don't think so either. Ignorance is bliss when you are staring into the abyss.
  • TimT said:

    I think I am going to leave this site for at least a couple of weeks. So much is uncertain about the data and outcomes at this stage, and yet so many on this site seem to be able to speak with moral outrage at the decisions of our public health officials who are working around the clock on an extraordinarily difficult and complex set of problems for which there are no good or right answers.

    I refuse to believe that those officials are either evil or heartless or incompetent, which are assumptions underlying many of the comments on here.

    Please do not give in to the keyboard warriors Like me earlier.
    BJO.

    Have some respect to posters by not altering their posts

    It is not clever

    If you want to comment on any post use the quote button
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225

    Pulpstar said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    I’m not arguing whether the experts are wrong, but the way the information is being presented is poor, and causing unnecessary confusion.

    Watch Macron simply tell people how it is. Watch Boris and Trump waffle.

    I don't think they're waffling, I think that's harsh, they're saying it as it is.

    What do you think is waffling?
    Macron: “This is what we’re doing, these are the steps taken to mitigate the damage.”

    Johnson: “oh umm, maybe don’t socialise” “what about businesses that will go bust?” “🤷‍♂️“
    You do yourself no favours, as the advice was far stronger than that. You are correct that more needs to be said about what will be done to help businesses.
    Well its clearly the message is not getting through as no-one I have spoken to offline knows what the hell they are supposed to be doing or not doing.
    Did they watch it? It was pretty clear they want you to reduce social interaction. They aren't banning you from doing it, primarily because people should be responsible, and second it would be a huge drain on resources to enforce it.
    What the hell does “reduce social interaction” mean?
    Give the gym/bridge club/pub a miss.
    Does anyone under 90 play bridge?
    Yes.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    Nigelb said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    I’m not arguing whether the experts are wrong, but the way the information is being presented is poor, and causing unnecessary confusion.

    Watch Macron simply tell people how it is. Watch Boris and Trump waffle.

    I don't think they're waffling, I think that's harsh, they're saying it as it is.

    What do you think is waffling?
    Macron: “This is what we’re doing, these are the steps taken to mitigate the damage.”

    Johnson: “oh umm, maybe don’t socialise” “what about businesses that will go bust?” “🤷‍♂️“
    You do yourself no favours, as the advice was far stronger than that. You are correct that more needs to be said about what will be done to help businesses.
    Well its clearly the message is not getting through as no-one I have spoken to offline knows what the hell they are supposed to be doing or not doing.
    Did they watch it? It was pretty clear they want you to reduce social interaction. They aren't banning you from doing it, primarily because people should be responsible, and second it would be a huge drain on resources to enforce it.
    What the hell does “reduce social interaction” mean?
    To be honest I cannot see how anyone has a problem understanding that
    Well answer my question then:

    Does it mean reduce, or does it mean zero social interaction outside those who live within your home?
    It means reduce, its not a ban. Avoid unnecessary social interactions but treating the public as sentient thinking grown ups.
    What is a “necessary” social interaction?
    Going down the pub isn’t.
    Visiting your parent to provide essential care is.

    Draw your own line somewhere between those two,
    What normal person describes “providing essential care” as a “social interaction”?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225

    Nigelb said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    I’m not arguing whether the experts are wrong, but the way the information is being presented is poor, and causing unnecessary confusion.

    Watch Macron simply tell people how it is. Watch Boris and Trump waffle.

    I don't think they're waffling, I think that's harsh, they're saying it as it is.

    What do you think is waffling?
    Macron: “This is what we’re doing, these are the steps taken to mitigate the damage.”

    Johnson: “oh umm, maybe don’t socialise” “what about businesses that will go bust?” “🤷‍♂️“
    You do yourself no favours, as the advice was far stronger than that. You are correct that more needs to be said about what will be done to help businesses.
    Well its clearly the message is not getting through as no-one I have spoken to offline knows what the hell they are supposed to be doing or not doing.
    Did they watch it? It was pretty clear they want you to reduce social interaction. They aren't banning you from doing it, primarily because people should be responsible, and second it would be a huge drain on resources to enforce it.
    What the hell does “reduce social interaction” mean?
    To be honest I cannot see how anyone has a problem understanding that
    Well answer my question then:

    Does it mean reduce, or does it mean zero social interaction outside those who live within your home?
    It means reduce, its not a ban. Avoid unnecessary social interactions but treating the public as sentient thinking grown ups.
    What is a “necessary” social interaction?
    Going down the pub isn’t.
    Visiting your parent to provide essential care is.

    Draw your own line somewhere between those two,
    What normal person describes “providing essential care” as a “social interaction”?
    For the purposes of passing on an infection, it is a social interaction.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Nigelb said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    I’m not arguing whether the experts are wrong, but the way the information is being presented is poor, and causing unnecessary confusion.

    Watch Macron simply tell people how it is. Watch Boris and Trump waffle.

    I don't think they're waffling, I think that's harsh, they're saying it as it is.

    What do you think is waffling?
    Macron: “This is what we’re doing, these are the steps taken to mitigate the damage.”

    Johnson: “oh umm, maybe don’t socialise” “what about businesses that will go bust?” “🤷‍♂️“
    You do yourself no favours, as the advice was far stronger than that. You are correct that more needs to be said about what will be done to help businesses.
    Well its clearly the message is not getting through as no-one I have spoken to offline knows what the hell they are supposed to be doing or not doing.
    Did they watch it? It was pretty clear they want you to reduce social interaction. They aren't banning you from doing it, primarily because people should be responsible, and second it would be a huge drain on resources to enforce it.
    What the hell does “reduce social interaction” mean?
    To be honest I cannot see how anyone has a problem understanding that
    Well answer my question then:

    Does it mean reduce, or does it mean zero social interaction outside those who live within your home?
    It means reduce, its not a ban. Avoid unnecessary social interactions but treating the public as sentient thinking grown ups.
    What is a “necessary” social interaction?
    Going down the pub isn’t.
    Visiting your parent to provide essential care is.

    Draw your own line somewhere between those two,
    What normal person describes “providing essential care” as a “social interaction”?
    Everyone.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,218
    TGOHF666 said:

    Can France borrow £300Bn - not sure I would lend them it.

    All governments are borrowing almost entirely from Central Banks right now.

    The Federal Reserve is about to buy $700bn of US government debt. (Put in context, the UK deficit last year was about $40bn. So the Federal Reserve is printing the equivalent of almost 20x the UK's deficit.)
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    I’m not arguing whether the experts are wrong, but the way the information is being presented is poor, and causing unnecessary confusion.

    Watch Macron simply tell people how it is. Watch Boris and Trump waffle.

    I don't think they're waffling, I think that's harsh, they're saying it as it is.

    What do you think is waffling?
    Macron: “This is what we’re doing, these are the steps taken to mitigate the damage.”

    Johnson: “oh umm, maybe don’t socialise” “what about businesses that will go bust?” “🤷‍♂️“
    £30 billion stimulus announced in the budget, funds for sick pay etc done before any French stimulus
    Sick pay is an irrelevance. The fact you can’t see that just says it all.

    30b stimulus is also an irrelevance.
    Sick pay is not an irrelevance, if you cannot work at home it will be what you are surviving on for the next few months
    Who can survive on £92 a week?

  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486

    RobD said:

    I’m not arguing whether the experts are wrong, but the way the information is being presented is poor, and causing unnecessary confusion.

    Watch Macron simply tell people how it is. Watch Boris and Trump waffle.

    I don't think they're waffling, I think that's harsh, they're saying it as it is.

    What do you think is waffling?
    Macron: “This is what we’re doing, these are the steps taken to mitigate the damage.”

    Johnson: “oh umm, maybe don’t socialise” “what about businesses that will go bust?” “🤷‍♂️“
    You do yourself no favours, as the advice was far stronger than that. You are correct that more needs to be said about what will be done to help businesses.
    I think that’s fair comment by Rob actually. The advice as given in the press conference itself was pretty clear, and pretty strong. The media’s presentation of it at 1800hours was a bit rushed and muddy. But, that might improve by 2200. My friends still think it’s fine to hold a big house party. I have made bearish noises, but I don’t have the heart to go further. I think the penny will drop by morning.
    The press conference was fine. The media aren't doing their part and the government need to deploy the same sort approach as during the GE, wall to wall consistent message raising 4-5 key points. And the media have to stop this ridiculous what about a 69 year old marathon runner who tuns 70 in 3 weeks, will he be locked up if he refuses to isolate?
    Agreed. Much of the media coverage has been lousy. Newsnight is the only decent coverage I have found.
  • HYUFD said:

    nichomar said:

    Well at least I now have less capital to pay for future care home needs, another area that will come back and bite the government as savings take a hammering.

    Unfortunately due to the mortality rate amongst over 70s and especially over 80s there will be rather fewer needing social care going forward
    That is truly a disgusting comment. Shame on you
    Anyone who says that Jeremy Corbyn will have to self isolate is the best thing about Corona Virus forfeits the right to take the high moral ground imo
    Not at all

    Corbyn needs to self isolate and hand over to Starmer in the Country's interest

  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    I’m not arguing whether the experts are wrong, but the way the information is being presented is poor, and causing unnecessary confusion.

    Watch Macron simply tell people how it is. Watch Boris and Trump waffle.

    I don't think they're waffling, I think that's harsh, they're saying it as it is.

    What do you think is waffling?
    Macron: “This is what we’re doing, these are the steps taken to mitigate the damage.”

    Johnson: “oh umm, maybe don’t socialise” “what about businesses that will go bust?” “🤷‍♂️“
    You do yourself no favours, as the advice was far stronger than that. You are correct that more needs to be said about what will be done to help businesses.
    Well its clearly the message is not getting through as no-one I have spoken to offline knows what the hell they are supposed to be doing or not doing.
    Did they watch it? It was pretty clear they want you to reduce social interaction. They aren't banning you from doing it, primarily because people should be responsible, and second it would be a huge drain on resources to enforce it.
    What the hell does “reduce social interaction” mean?
    To be honest I cannot see how anyone has a problem understanding that
    Well answer my question then:

    Does it mean reduce, or does it mean zero social interaction outside those who live within your home?
    It means reduce, its not a ban. Avoid unnecessary social interactions but treating the public as sentient thinking grown ups.
    What is a “necessary” social interaction?
    Going down the pub isn’t.
    Visiting your parent to provide essential care is.

    Draw your own line somewhere between those two,
    What normal person describes “providing essential care” as a “social interaction”?
    For the purposes of passing on an infection, it is a social interaction.
    Yes, I understand that. My point is that the Government and the press could be much clearer.

    In France they have been clear - do not leave your home unless going to work or x or y.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,491
    I think Peston is right about the practicality of upscaling ventilator/respirator production. Very difficult for totally different industries without the tools or skills to do.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424

    Trump just asked on a scale of 1 -10 how well was he doing

    10.........................

    He clearly misunderstood. The scale offered was from 1 to -10.

    Not that I agree. I think five zeros are missing from the negative number.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468

    Nigelb said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    I’m not arguing whether the experts are wrong, but the way the information is being presented is poor, and causing unnecessary confusion.

    Watch Macron simply tell people how it is. Watch Boris and Trump waffle.

    I don't think they're waffling, I think that's harsh, they're saying it as it is.

    What do you think is waffling?
    Macron: “This is what we’re doing, these are the steps taken to mitigate the damage.”

    Johnson: “oh umm, maybe don’t socialise” “what about businesses that will go bust?” “🤷‍♂️“
    You do yourself no favours, as the advice was far stronger than that. You are correct that more needs to be said about what will be done to help businesses.
    Well its clearly the message is not getting through as no-one I have spoken to offline knows what the hell they are supposed to be doing or not doing.
    Did they watch it? It was pretty clear they want you to reduce social interaction. They aren't banning you from doing it, primarily because people should be responsible, and second it would be a huge drain on resources to enforce it.
    What the hell does “reduce social interaction” mean?
    To be honest I cannot see how anyone has a problem understanding that
    Well answer my question then:

    Does it mean reduce, or does it mean zero social interaction outside those who live within your home?
    It means reduce, its not a ban. Avoid unnecessary social interactions but treating the public as sentient thinking grown ups.
    What is a “necessary” social interaction?
    Going down the pub isn’t.
    Visiting your parent to provide essential care is.

    Draw your own line somewhere between those two,
    What normal person describes “providing essential care” as a “social interaction”?
    Everyone.
    Obviously not.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205



    “You went round to somebody else’s house for tea so it’s your fault your dead.”

    The only friend's house I ever head round for tea to have all gone down with it. So yes stick to facebooking even your best friends for now in my opinion...
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    I’m not arguing whether the experts are wrong, but the way the information is being presented is poor, and causing unnecessary confusion.

    Watch Macron simply tell people how it is. Watch Boris and Trump waffle.

    I don't think they're waffling, I think that's harsh, they're saying it as it is.

    What do you think is waffling?
    Macron: “This is what we’re doing, these are the steps taken to mitigate the damage.”

    Johnson: “oh umm, maybe don’t socialise” “what about businesses that will go bust?” “🤷‍♂️“
    You do yourself no favours, as the advice was far stronger than that. You are correct that more needs to be said about what will be done to help businesses.
    Well its clearly the message is not getting through as no-one I have spoken to offline knows what the hell they are supposed to be doing or not doing.
    Did they watch it? It was pretty clear they want you to reduce social interaction. They aren't banning you from doing it, primarily because people should be responsible, and second it would be a huge drain on resources to enforce it.
    What the hell does “reduce social interaction” mean?
    To be honest I cannot see how anyone has a problem understanding that
    Well answer my question then:

    Does it mean reduce, or does it mean zero social interaction outside those who live within your home?
    It means reduce, its not a ban. Avoid unnecessary social interactions but treating the public as sentient thinking grown ups.
    What is a “necessary” social interaction?
    Going down the pub isn’t.
    Visiting your parent to provide essential care is.

    Draw your own line somewhere between those two,
    What normal person describes “providing essential care” as a “social interaction”?
    For the purposes of passing on an infection, it is a social interaction.
    Yes, I understand that. My point is that the Government and the press could be much clearer.

    In France they have been clear - do not leave your home unless going to work or x or y.
    Given that they probably don't want people to stop providing essential care it is not an issue! I imagine people think a social interaction is doing stuff together, which is what the government is advising against unless it is necessary.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited March 2020
    JM1 said:


    5. We have been caught off guard in Europe and the UK and the assumptions underlying the models (especially in terms of ICU requirement) have clearly been wrong - this is no fault of the modellers - as good scientists they have modified their models in light of data. However, next time, we will take the lead of South Korea and Hong Kong (who learnt their lesson from SARS): better surveillance; better diagnosis and better treatment. All three areas will be massively improved for the next wave.

    The thing we can learn from China, which they have in place due to SARS, is funnelling.

    You don't go to the GP or A&E. You get a test at a specialist place, you get funnelled into the system and use quick and "dirty" techniques to start processing people, to quickly eliminate those who don't have it. And you don't let them out into the community.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    I’m not arguing whether the experts are wrong, but the way the information is being presented is poor, and causing unnecessary confusion.

    Watch Macron simply tell people how it is. Watch Boris and Trump waffle.

    I don't think they're waffling, I think that's harsh, they're saying it as it is.

    What do you think is waffling?
    Macron: “This is what we’re doing, these are the steps taken to mitigate the damage.”

    Johnson: “oh umm, maybe don’t socialise” “what about businesses that will go bust?” “🤷‍♂️“
    £30 billion stimulus announced in the budget, funds for sick pay etc done before any French stimulus
    Sick pay is an irrelevance. The fact you can’t see that just says it all.

    30b stimulus is also an irrelevance.
    Sick pay is not an irrelevance, if you cannot work at home it will be what you are surviving on for the next few months
    Many more people will be laid-off by companies going bust or mothballing than will go off sick. Those people will only be getting £73 per week.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,491
    Thinking about cashing out on my Democratic nominee bets after Tuesday's primaries. I could see those being suspended or delayed by the Democratic Party.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,570
    "A virus is similarly putting the modern world on pause. This being a betting site, I might claim that the chances of this were a million to one."

    As Terry Pratchett observed

    "Million-to-one chances...crop up nine times out of ten"
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    I’m not arguing whether the experts are wrong, but the way the information is being presented is poor, and causing unnecessary confusion.

    Watch Macron simply tell people how it is. Watch Boris and Trump waffle.

    I don't think they're waffling, I think that's harsh, they're saying it as it is.

    What do you think is waffling?
    Macron: “This is what we’re doing, these are the steps taken to mitigate the damage.”

    Johnson: “oh umm, maybe don’t socialise” “what about businesses that will go bust?” “🤷‍♂️“
    You do yourself no favours, as the advice was far stronger than that. You are correct that more needs to be said about what will be done to help businesses.
    Well its clearly the message is not getting through as no-one I have spoken to offline knows what the hell they are supposed to be doing or not doing.
    Did they watch it? It was pretty clear they want you to reduce social interaction. They aren't banning you from doing it, primarily because people should be responsible, and second it would be a huge drain on resources to enforce it.
    What the hell does “reduce social interaction” mean?
    To be honest I cannot see how anyone has a problem understanding that
    Well answer my question then:

    Does it mean reduce, or does it mean zero social interaction outside those who live within your home?
    It means reduce, its not a ban. Avoid unnecessary social interactions but treating the public as sentient thinking grown ups.
    What is a “necessary” social interaction?
    Going down the pub isn’t.
    Visiting your parent to provide essential care is.

    Draw your own line somewhere between those two,
    What normal person describes “providing essential care” as a “social interaction”?
    For the purposes of passing on an infection, it is a social interaction.
    Yes, I understand that. My point is that the Government and the press could be much clearer.

    In France they have been clear - do not leave your home unless going to work or x or y.
    People aren't idiots and can think for themselves.

    What if you have to do z which is essential but isn't x or y?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    Pulpstar said:



    “You went round to somebody else’s house for tea so it’s your fault your dead.”

    The only friend's house I ever head round for tea to have all gone down with it. So yes stick to facebooking even your best friends for now in my opinion...
    Given how many people on PB know someone who has it, I would suggest the real infection rate is far far higher than the official figures.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    I’m not arguing whether the experts are wrong, but the way the information is being presented is poor, and causing unnecessary confusion.

    Watch Macron simply tell people how it is. Watch Boris and Trump waffle.

    I don't think they're waffling, I think that's harsh, they're saying it as it is.

    What do you think is waffling?
    Macron: “This is what we’re doing, these are the steps taken to mitigate the damage.”

    Johnson: “oh umm, maybe don’t socialise” “what about businesses that will go bust?” “🤷‍♂️“
    £30 billion stimulus announced in the budget, funds for sick pay etc done before any French stimulus
    Sick pay is an irrelevance. The fact you can’t see that just says it all.

    30b stimulus is also an irrelevance.
    Sick pay is not an irrelevance, if you cannot work at home it will be what you are surviving on for the next few months
    Who can survive on £92 a week?

    Most people if they are only allowed out the house once a week for a food shop and their mortgage payments and evictions for non payment of rent suspended as is likely.

    Unemployment benefit is only £60 a week
  • MonkeysMonkeys Posts: 757
    Might read "Dracula."
  • Good evening from Sheffield. Anecdotage:
    1. My Dad (72) very proud to have done his first ever online shop. Food comes Friday next week, they'll need a top up before then. They sound philosophical about the next few months (having taken a beating with Sirius Minerals he is back into North Sea small oil for pennies)
    2. Hampton by Hilton. I'm here 6 nights a month usually, manager very depressed, she's blocked out the top 3 floors to save energy, has let room staff go, Tuesday normally busiest night of the week and they have 15 reservations that haven't cancelled. As a franchisee they are really worried about the future
    3. Eating my Last Supper (Dominos and Heineken). The gym up the street is literally empty (usually busy), Co-op full of mask-wearing Chinese students, pubs empty, curry house empty.

    Its fine for dumb people like HYUFD to say "the budget" and "SSP". But SSP is 3 parts of Fuck All. And the budget is a sticking plaster over an amputated head. We either copy Macron on there won't be an economy left. And do Tory rampers like HYUFD think people will reward the Tories in the aftermath of this catastrophe when we resemble Weimar Germany and France / Spain etc resemble imperial UK?

    The government need to deploy the liquidity nuke and now. Unlike France we actually can access the cash...
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    RobD said:

    Pulpstar said:



    “You went round to somebody else’s house for tea so it’s your fault your dead.”

    The only friend's house I ever head round for tea to have all gone down with it. So yes stick to facebooking even your best friends for now in my opinion...
    Given how many people on PB know someone who has it, I would suggest the real infection rate is far far higher than the official figures.
    Imperial bod says 35-50k.
  • RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    I’m not arguing whether the experts are wrong, but the way the information is being presented is poor, and causing unnecessary confusion.

    Watch Macron simply tell people how it is. Watch Boris and Trump waffle.

    I don't think they're waffling, I think that's harsh, they're saying it as it is.

    What do you think is waffling?
    Macron: “This is what we’re doing, these are the steps taken to mitigate the damage.”

    Johnson: “oh umm, maybe don’t socialise” “what about businesses that will go bust?” “🤷‍♂️“
    You do yourself no favours, as the advice was far stronger than that. You are correct that more needs to be said about what will be done to help businesses.
    Well its clearly the message is not getting through as no-one I have spoken to offline knows what the hell they are supposed to be doing or not doing.
    Did they watch it? It was pretty clear they want you to reduce social interaction. They aren't banning you from doing it, primarily because people should be responsible, and second it would be a huge drain on resources to enforce it.
    What the hell does “reduce social interaction” mean?
    To be honest I cannot see how anyone has a problem understanding that
    Well answer my question then:

    Does it mean reduce, or does it mean zero social interaction outside those who live within your home?
    It means reduce, its not a ban. Avoid unnecessary social interactions but treating the public as sentient thinking grown ups.
    What is a “necessary” social interaction?
    Does the government have to tell you exactly how to run your life or something? You have to make a judgement yourself on this. A necessary interaction might be buying groceries, or visiting someone who is on their deathbed. It's not going for a piss up down the pub.
    I’m sorry but you’re living in an idealistic dreamworld if you think people will not just interpret it as they want, unless explicitly told.

    This apologism for the government’s shirking of responsibility is ridiculous. It’s their job to tell us what to do in times of trouble, not to pass the buck.

    “You went round to somebody else’s house for tea so it’s your fault your dead.”
    Compulsion will come if people ignore the advice but I have faith in the common sense of the public to act in their and the nation's interest

    Do you want the police to have powers of arrest and prison sentences for some
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,570

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    I’m not arguing whether the experts are wrong, but the way the information is being presented is poor, and causing unnecessary confusion.

    Watch Macron simply tell people how it is. Watch Boris and Trump waffle.

    I don't think they're waffling, I think that's harsh, they're saying it as it is.

    What do you think is waffling?
    Macron: “This is what we’re doing, these are the steps taken to mitigate the damage.”

    Johnson: “oh umm, maybe don’t socialise” “what about businesses that will go bust?” “🤷‍♂️“
    You do yourself no favours, as the advice was far stronger than that. You are correct that more needs to be said about what will be done to help businesses.
    Well its clearly the message is not getting through as no-one I have spoken to offline knows what the hell they are supposed to be doing or not doing.
    Did they watch it? It was pretty clear they want you to reduce social interaction. They aren't banning you from doing it, primarily because people should be responsible, and second it would be a huge drain on resources to enforce it.
    What the hell does “reduce social interaction” mean?
    To be honest I cannot see how anyone has a problem understanding that
    Well answer my question then:

    Does it mean reduce, or does it mean zero social interaction outside those who live within your home?
    It means reduce, its not a ban. Avoid unnecessary social interactions but treating the public as sentient thinking grown ups.
    What is a “necessary” social interaction?
    Does the government have to tell you exactly how to run your life or something? You have to make a judgement yourself on this. A necessary interaction might be buying groceries, or visiting someone who is on their deathbed. It's not going for a piss up down the pub.
    I’m sorry but you’re living in an idealistic dreamworld if you think people will not just interpret it as they want, unless explicitly told.

    This apologism for the government’s shirking of responsibility is ridiculous. It’s their job to tell us what to do in times of trouble, not to pass the buck.

    “You went round to somebody else’s house for tea so it’s your fault your dead.”
    Nice to see your inner Stalinist coming out this evening Gallowgate
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,037
    I think Gallowgate is being more Fulwell End this evening.
  • BalrogBalrog Posts: 207
    ydoethur said:

    This is a national emergency. A real heartstopping crisis.

    What on earth has happened to the format of Vanilla?

    It’s working fine for me. Are you on the main site or the discussion board?
    I think new vanilla is much clearer / better
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    I’m not arguing whether the experts are wrong, but the way the information is being presented is poor, and causing unnecessary confusion.

    Watch Macron simply tell people how it is. Watch Boris and Trump waffle.

    I don't think they're waffling, I think that's harsh, they're saying it as it is.

    What do you think is waffling?
    Macron: “This is what we’re doing, these are the steps taken to mitigate the damage.”

    Johnson: “oh umm, maybe don’t socialise” “what about businesses that will go bust?” “🤷‍♂️“
    You do yourself no favours, as the advice was far stronger than that. You are correct that more needs to be said about what will be done to help businesses.
    Well its clearly the message is not getting through as no-one I have spoken to offline knows what the hell they are supposed to be doing or not doing.
    Did they watch it? It was pretty clear they want you to reduce social interaction. They aren't banning you from doing it, primarily because people should be responsible, and second it would be a huge drain on resources to enforce it.
    What the hell does “reduce social interaction” mean?
    Stay the fuck home.
    Or alternatively, stay at home and fuck.

    Which reminds me, why did you say earlier that prostitutes shouldn’t visit opticians? Is there something you don’t want them to see?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    RobD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    I’m not arguing whether the experts are wrong, but the way the information is being presented is poor, and causing unnecessary confusion.

    Watch Macron simply tell people how it is. Watch Boris and Trump waffle.

    I don't think they're waffling, I think that's harsh, they're saying it as it is.

    What do you think is waffling?
    Macron: “This is what we’re doing, these are the steps taken to mitigate the damage.”

    Johnson: “oh umm, maybe don’t socialise” “what about businesses that will go bust?” “🤷‍♂️“
    You do yourself no favours, as the advice was far stronger than that. You are correct that more needs to be said about what will be done to help businesses.
    Well its clearly the message is not getting through as no-one I have spoken to offline knows what the hell they are supposed to be doing or not doing.
    Did they watch it? It was pretty clear they want you to reduce social interaction. They aren't banning you from doing it, primarily because people should be responsible, and second it would be a huge drain on resources to enforce it.
    What the hell does “reduce social interaction” mean?
    To be honest I cannot see how anyone has a problem understanding that
    Well answer my question then:

    Does it mean reduce, or does it mean zero social interaction outside those who live within your home?
    It means reduce, its not a ban. Avoid unnecessary social interactions but treating the public as sentient thinking grown ups.
    What is a “necessary” social interaction?
    Going down the pub isn’t.
    Visiting your parent to provide essential care is.

    Draw your own line somewhere between those two,
    What normal person describes “providing essential care” as a “social interaction”?
    For the purposes of passing on an infection, it is a social interaction.
    Yes, I understand that. My point is that the Government and the press could be much clearer.

    In France they have been clear - do not leave your home unless going to work or x or y.
    Given that they probably don't want people to stop providing essential care it is not an issue! I imagine people think a social interaction is doing stuff together, which is what the government is advising against unless it is necessary.
    So why didn’t they just f*cking say that then??

    “Do not leave your home unless you have to.” “All museums, galleries, cinemas, bars, pubs, etc are to be closed.”

    If that is the aim, just say it. Anything else is just beating around the bush, or inviting people to interpret how they want.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,491
    One positive, my local village shop is doing better.

    Lots of people at home, it's within walking distance and people don't want to go to the supermarkets.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    I’m not arguing whether the experts are wrong, but the way the information is being presented is poor, and causing unnecessary confusion.

    Watch Macron simply tell people how it is. Watch Boris and Trump waffle.

    I don't think they're waffling, I think that's harsh, they're saying it as it is.

    What do you think is waffling?
    Macron: “This is what we’re doing, these are the steps taken to mitigate the damage.”

    Johnson: “oh umm, maybe don’t socialise” “what about businesses that will go bust?” “🤷‍♂️“
    £30 billion stimulus announced in the budget, funds for sick pay etc done before any French stimulus
    Sick pay is an irrelevance. The fact you can’t see that just says it all.

    30b stimulus is also an irrelevance.
    Sick pay is not an irrelevance, if you cannot work at home it will be what you are surviving on for the next few months
    Who can survive on £92 a week?

    Most people if they are only allowed out the house once a week for a food shop and their mortgage payments and evictions for non payment of rent suspended as is likely.

    Unemployment benefit is only £60 a week
    Hyufd, please learn to use commas.
  • rural_voterrural_voter Posts: 2,038

    ukpaul said:

    J

    ukpaul said:

    Scott_xP said:
    So we are pivoting again towards lock down? Ouch.
    The question has to be asked.

    How the hell did they not bother to check this before?
    This is the key bit of info that has caused the change....

    https://twitter.com/whippletom/status/1239619449533194242?s=20

    Clearly the initial model didn't anticipate anywhere near as many people requiring ICU and especially not among the young.
    This was known before the announcement on Thursday, though. It suggests they’ve not been keeping up with developments.
    I don't know, initially it was all about the old. Now all European countries are increasingly talking about just how many younger people they are getting.
    I read this somewhere online weeks ago. Children were said to be proving almost immune - did this mean before puberty? - young adults much less so although better-placed than oldies like me.

    Ways for oldies & probably others to strengthen their immune system

    https://www.saga.co.uk/magazine/health-wellbeing/wellbeing/10-ways-boost-immune-system
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,491
    ydoethur said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    I’m not arguing whether the experts are wrong, but the way the information is being presented is poor, and causing unnecessary confusion.

    Watch Macron simply tell people how it is. Watch Boris and Trump waffle.

    I don't think they're waffling, I think that's harsh, they're saying it as it is.

    What do you think is waffling?
    Macron: “This is what we’re doing, these are the steps taken to mitigate the damage.”

    Johnson: “oh umm, maybe don’t socialise” “what about businesses that will go bust?” “🤷‍♂️“
    You do yourself no favours, as the advice was far stronger than that. You are correct that more needs to be said about what will be done to help businesses.
    Well its clearly the message is not getting through as no-one I have spoken to offline knows what the hell they are supposed to be doing or not doing.
    Did they watch it? It was pretty clear they want you to reduce social interaction. They aren't banning you from doing it, primarily because people should be responsible, and second it would be a huge drain on resources to enforce it.
    What the hell does “reduce social interaction” mean?
    Stay the fuck home.
    Or alternatively, stay at home and fuck.

    Which reminds me, why did you say earlier that prostitutes shouldn’t visit opticians? Is there something you don’t want them to see?
    Wifeswap with the neighbour if it gets boring.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935

    RobD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    I’m not arguing whether the experts are wrong, but the way the information is being presented is poor, and causing unnecessary confusion.

    Watch Macron simply tell people how it is. Watch Boris and Trump waffle.

    I don't think they're waffling, I think that's harsh, they're saying it as it is.

    What do you think is waffling?
    Macron: “This is what we’re doing, these are the steps taken to mitigate the damage.”

    Johnson: “oh umm, maybe don’t socialise” “what about businesses that will go bust?” “🤷‍♂️“
    You do yourself no favours, as the advice was far stronger than that. You are correct that more needs to be said about what will be done to help businesses.
    Well its clearly the message is not getting through as no-one I have spoken to offline knows what the hell they are supposed to be doing or not doing.
    Did they watch it? It was pretty clear they want you to reduce social interaction. They aren't banning you from doing it, primarily because people should be responsible, and second it would be a huge drain on resources to enforce it.
    What the hell does “reduce social interaction” mean?
    To be honest I cannot see how anyone has a problem understanding that
    Well answer my question then:

    Does it mean reduce, or does it mean zero social interaction outside those who live within your home?
    It means reduce, its not a ban. Avoid unnecessary social interactions but treating the public as sentient thinking grown ups.
    What is a “necessary” social interaction?
    Going down the pub isn’t.
    Visiting your parent to provide essential care is.

    Draw your own line somewhere between those two,
    What normal person describes “providing essential care” as a “social interaction”?
    For the purposes of passing on an infection, it is a social interaction.
    Yes, I understand that. My point is that the Government and the press could be much clearer.

    In France they have been clear - do not leave your home unless going to work or x or y.
    Given that they probably don't want people to stop providing essential care it is not an issue! I imagine people think a social interaction is doing stuff together, which is what the government is advising against unless it is necessary.
    So why didn’t they just f*cking say that then??

    “Do not leave your home unless you have to.” “All museums, galleries, cinemas, bars, pubs, etc are to be closed.”

    If that is the aim, just say it. Anything else is just beating around the bush, or inviting people to interpret how they want.
    Who knows, but the effect will be the same, or very similar as 99% of people will have got the message.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    I’m not arguing whether the experts are wrong, but the way the information is being presented is poor, and causing unnecessary confusion.

    Watch Macron simply tell people how it is. Watch Boris and Trump waffle.

    I don't think they're waffling, I think that's harsh, they're saying it as it is.

    What do you think is waffling?
    Macron: “This is what we’re doing, these are the steps taken to mitigate the damage.”

    Johnson: “oh umm, maybe don’t socialise” “what about businesses that will go bust?” “🤷‍♂️“
    £30 billion stimulus announced in the budget, funds for sick pay etc done before any French stimulus
    Sick pay is an irrelevance. The fact you can’t see that just says it all.

    30b stimulus is also an irrelevance.
    Sick pay is not an irrelevance, if you cannot work at home it will be what you are surviving on for the next few months
    Who can survive on £92 a week?

    Most people if they are only allowed out the house once a week for a food shop and their mortgage payments and evictions for non payment of rent suspended as is likely.

    Unemployment benefit is only £60 a week
    Hyufd, please learn to use commas.
    #We,dont,do,commas,here,mate
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,491
    Balrog said:

    ydoethur said:

    This is a national emergency. A real heartstopping crisis.

    What on earth has happened to the format of Vanilla?

    It’s working fine for me. Are you on the main site or the discussion board?
    I think new vanilla is much clearer / better
    I can only assume you've just tested positive.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,570

    RobD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    I’m not arguing whether the experts are wrong, but the way the information is being presented is poor, and causing unnecessary confusion.

    Watch Macron simply tell people how it is. Watch Boris and Trump waffle.

    I don't think they're waffling, I think that's harsh, they're saying it as it is.

    What do you think is waffling?
    Macron: “This is what we’re doing, these are the steps taken to mitigate the damage.”

    Johnson: “oh umm, maybe don’t socialise” “what about businesses that will go bust?” “🤷‍♂️“
    You do yourself no favours, as the advice was far stronger than that. You are correct that more needs to be said about what will be done to help businesses.
    Well its clearly the message is not getting through as no-one I have spoken to offline knows what the hell they are supposed to be doing or not doing.
    Did they watch it? It was pretty clear they want you to reduce social interaction. They aren't banning you from doing it, primarily because people should be responsible, and second it would be a huge drain on resources to enforce it.
    What the hell does “reduce social interaction” mean?
    To be honest I cannot see how anyone has a problem understanding that
    Well answer my question then:

    Does it mean reduce, or does it mean zero social interaction outside those who live within your home?
    It means reduce, its not a ban. Avoid unnecessary social interactions but treating the public as sentient thinking grown ups.
    What is a “necessary” social interaction?
    Going down the pub isn’t.
    Visiting your parent to provide essential care is.

    Draw your own line somewhere between those two,
    What normal person describes “providing essential care” as a “social interaction”?
    For the purposes of passing on an infection, it is a social interaction.
    Yes, I understand that. My point is that the Government and the press could be much clearer.

    In France they have been clear - do not leave your home unless going to work or x or y.
    Given that they probably don't want people to stop providing essential care it is not an issue! I imagine people think a social interaction is doing stuff together, which is what the government is advising against unless it is necessary.
    So why didn’t they just f*cking say that then??

    “Do not leave your home unless you have to.” “All museums, galleries, cinemas, bars, pubs, etc are to be closed.”

    If that is the aim, just say it. Anything else is just beating around the bush, or inviting people to interpret how they want.
    It must be incredibly sad to have such a poor view of your fellow man.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Monkeys said:

    Might read "Dracula."

    Found it a bit meh to be honest.

    I suspect it loses its punch when you effectively know everything about vampires already.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935

    Balrog said:

    ydoethur said:

    This is a national emergency. A real heartstopping crisis.

    What on earth has happened to the format of Vanilla?

    It’s working fine for me. Are you on the main site or the discussion board?
    I think new vanilla is much clearer / better
    I can only assume you've just tested positive.
    Looks like I'm still on the old one, for now...
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,767
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    I’m not arguing whether the experts are wrong, but the way the information is being presented is poor, and causing unnecessary confusion.

    Watch Macron simply tell people how it is. Watch Boris and Trump waffle.

    I don't think they're waffling, I think that's harsh, they're saying it as it is.

    What do you think is waffling?
    Macron: “This is what we’re doing, these are the steps taken to mitigate the damage.”

    Johnson: “oh umm, maybe don’t socialise” “what about businesses that will go bust?” “🤷‍♂️“
    £30 billion stimulus announced in the budget, funds for sick pay etc done before any French stimulus
    Sick pay is an irrelevance. The fact you can’t see that just says it all.

    30b stimulus is also an irrelevance.
    Sick pay is not an irrelevance, if you cannot work at home it will be what you are surviving on for the next few months
    Who can survive on £92 a week?

    Most people if they are only allowed out the house once a week for a food shop and their mortgage payments and evictions for non payment of rent suspended as is likely.

    Unemployment benefit is only £60 a week
    There is no such thing. If you mean JSA it is £73
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424
    edited March 2020

    ydoethur said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    I’m not arguing whether the experts are wrong, but the way the information is being presented is poor, and causing unnecessary confusion.

    Watch Macron simply tell people how it is. Watch Boris and Trump waffle.

    I don't think they're waffling, I think that's harsh, they're saying it as it is.

    What do you think is waffling?
    Macron: “This is what we’re doing, these are the steps taken to mitigate the damage.”

    Johnson: “oh umm, maybe don’t socialise” “what about businesses that will go bust?” “🤷‍♂️“
    You do yourself no favours, as the advice was far stronger than that. You are correct that more needs to be said about what will be done to help businesses.
    Well its clearly the message is not getting through as no-one I have spoken to offline knows what the hell they are supposed to be doing or not doing.
    Did they watch it? It was pretty clear they want you to reduce social interaction. They aren't banning you from doing it, primarily because people should be responsible, and second it would be a huge drain on resources to enforce it.
    What the hell does “reduce social interaction” mean?
    Stay the fuck home.
    Or alternatively, stay at home and fuck.

    Which reminds me, why did you say earlier that prostitutes shouldn’t visit opticians? Is there something you don’t want them to see?
    Wifeswap with the neighbour if it gets boring.
    Whatever floats your boat...but wouldn’t that breach isolation protocols?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,218

    What happens when no vaccine is found. Just ponder on that pbers.

    It's a virus of a type we've discovered vaccines to in the past, so that seems pretty unlikely.

    And even if we didn't find a vaccine, we'd all get it over a period of time and therefore develop immunity.

    And if it were mutating rapidly, like the cold does, (which by the way it isn't), then we'd worry about that later. Worth remembering that even in this case, we'd have partial immunity.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675
    We will have a new baby boomer generation in about 9 months. And the celebration when the curfew is lifted will rival VE Day.
  • eadric said:

    I already have one friend's wife laid off, another friend's very successful wine and food biz about to go under, and another friend's big name Thai restaurant chain a few days from collapse.

    And this is just the beginning. Carnage.

    It is. My brother in law has just been laid off from his shopfitting job today. My middle lad has had all his freelance video work cancelled and a contract as a runner for a small TV production company that was due to start next week cancelled. A mate opened a pub at Christmas. He's just called me in tears. And as you say, it's just the start.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,557

    Also, why are 2 weeks in France always 15 days?

    Inclusive counting.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    We are going to have to learn to make our own entertainment.

    OK, pb-ers - how do we connect with our older friends and family while they are under lockdown? Is there a way to play Scrabble or Bridge with them online for example? What fun can we have as a group?

    That's a good question! I think my folks would like that.
    Words with friends app
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,449
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    I’m not arguing whether the experts are wrong, but the way the information is being presented is poor, and causing unnecessary confusion.

    Watch Macron simply tell people how it is. Watch Boris and Trump waffle.

    I don't think they're waffling, I think that's harsh, they're saying it as it is.

    What do you think is waffling?
    Macron: “This is what we’re doing, these are the steps taken to mitigate the damage.”

    Johnson: “oh umm, maybe don’t socialise” “what about businesses that will go bust?” “🤷‍♂️“
    £30 billion stimulus announced in the budget, funds for sick pay etc done before any French stimulus
    Sick pay is an irrelevance. The fact you can’t see that just says it all.

    30b stimulus is also an irrelevance.
    Sick pay is not an irrelevance, if you cannot work at home it will be what you are surviving on for the next few months
    Who can survive on £92 a week?

    Most people if they are only allowed out the house once a week for a food shop and their mortgage payments and evictions for non payment of rent suspended as is likely.

    Unemployment benefit is only £60 a week
    Are you having a giraffe? Energy bills, council tax, water will take up the lot before you’ve even bought anything.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    RobD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    I’m not arguing whether the experts are wrong, but the way the information is being presented is poor, and causing unnecessary confusion.

    Watch Macron simply tell people how it is. Watch Boris and Trump waffle.

    I don't think they're waffling, I think that's harsh, they're saying it as it is.

    What do you think is waffling?
    Macron: “This is what we’re doing, these are the steps taken to mitigate the damage.”

    Johnson: “oh umm, maybe don’t socialise” “what about businesses that will go bust?” “🤷‍♂️“
    You do yourself no favours, as the advice was far stronger than that. You are correct that more needs to be said about what will be done to help businesses.
    Well its clearly the message is not getting through as no-one I have spoken to offline knows what the hell they are supposed to be doing or not doing.
    Did they watch it? It was pretty clear they want you to reduce social interaction. They aren't banning you from doing it, primarily because people should be responsible, and second it would be a huge drain on resources to enforce it.
    What the hell does “reduce social interaction” mean?
    To be honest I cannot see how anyone has a problem understanding that
    Well answer my question then:

    Does it mean reduce, or does it mean zero social interaction outside those who live within your home?
    It means reduce, its not a ban. Avoid unnecessary social interactions but treating the public as sentient thinking grown ups.
    What is a “necessary” social interaction?
    Going down the pub isn’t.
    Visiting your parent to provide essential care is.

    Draw your own line somewhere between those two,
    What normal person describes “providing essential care” as a “social interaction”?
    For the purposes of passing on an infection, it is a social interaction.
    Yes, I understand that. My point is that the Government and the press could be much clearer.

    In France they have been clear - do not leave your home unless going to work or x or y.
    Given that they probably don't want people to stop providing essential care it is not an issue! I imagine people think a social interaction is doing stuff together, which is what the government is advising against unless it is necessary.
    So I can go to the cinema as long as I go on my own.

    And sing happy birthday whilst washing my hands - Obvs
  • JM1, thanks for posting.

    I found it reassuring -- though not quite the right word -- that they were changing course after a projection of 260k deaths. That must mean that the new course projects significantly less than 260k deaths. Having said that, the projections assumed all were treated who needed it.

    Such scary times. Let's all be generous to one another.

    --AS
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,767
    #BorisResign trending.

    What a cesspit.

    God knows how this generation would have coped with the War.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935

    RobD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    I’m not arguing whether the experts are wrong, but the way the information is being presented is poor, and causing unnecessary confusion.

    Watch Macron simply tell people how it is. Watch Boris and Trump waffle.

    I don't think they're waffling, I think that's harsh, they're saying it as it is.

    What do you think is waffling?
    Macron: “This is what we’re doing, these are the steps taken to mitigate the damage.”

    Johnson: “oh umm, maybe don’t socialise” “what about businesses that will go bust?” “🤷‍♂️“
    You do yourself no favours, as the advice was far stronger than that. You are correct that more needs to be said about what will be done to help businesses.
    Well its clearly the message is not getting through as no-one I have spoken to offline knows what the hell they are supposed to be doing or not doing.
    Did they watch it? It was pretty clear they want you to reduce social interaction. They aren't banning you from doing it, primarily because people should be responsible, and second it would be a huge drain on resources to enforce it.
    What the hell does “reduce social interaction” mean?
    To be honest I cannot see how anyone has a problem understanding that
    Well answer my question then:

    Does it mean reduce, or does it mean zero social interaction outside those who live within your home?
    It means reduce, its not a ban. Avoid unnecessary social interactions but treating the public as sentient thinking grown ups.
    What is a “necessary” social interaction?
    Going down the pub isn’t.
    Visiting your parent to provide essential care is.

    Draw your own line somewhere between those two,
    What normal person describes “providing essential care” as a “social interaction”?
    For the purposes of passing on an infection, it is a social interaction.
    Yes, I understand that. My point is that the Government and the press could be much clearer.

    In France they have been clear - do not leave your home unless going to work or x or y.
    Given that they probably don't want people to stop providing essential care it is not an issue! I imagine people think a social interaction is doing stuff together, which is what the government is advising against unless it is necessary.
    So I can go to the cinema as long as I go on my own.

    And sing happy birthday whilst washing my hands - Obvs
    I doubt they'll keep the cinema open just for you.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    edited March 2020

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    I’m not arguing whether the experts are wrong, but the way the information is being presented is poor, and causing unnecessary confusion.

    Watch Macron simply tell people how it is. Watch Boris and Trump waffle.

    I don't think they're waffling, I think that's harsh, they're saying it as it is.

    What do you think is waffling?
    Macron: “This is what we’re doing, these are the steps taken to mitigate the damage.”

    Johnson: “oh umm, maybe don’t socialise” “what about businesses that will go bust?” “🤷‍♂️“
    You do yourself no favours, as the advice was far stronger than that. You are correct that more needs to be said about what will be done to help businesses.
    Well its clearly the message is not getting through as no-one I have spoken to offline knows what the hell they are supposed to be doing or not doing.
    Did they watch it? It was pretty clear they want you to reduce social interaction. They aren't banning you from doing it, primarily because people should be responsible, and second it would be a huge drain on resources to enforce it.
    What the hell does “reduce social interaction” mean?
    The government is getting its shit together on its messaging, with specific advice on radio ads etc, but it has been slow to do so. What you are referring to is policy driven process. Policy is to reduce social interaction. Process is step 1, step 2, step 3...
    BTW all the commentators here disparaging you are wrong. No corporation or regulator would accept policy without process.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,218

    How will we feed ourselves if we need to lock down for 18 months?

    Our food growers will also be locked down for 18 months too. How will they grow our food?

    Because lockdown doesn't mean everyone is welded into their homes. It means only those with essential jobs are working.

    In any case, go look at the chart from Hubei. It took just a couple of weeks for real new infections to collapse, after which you combine rigorous testing with a gradual loosening of restrictions.

    And go look at South Korea and Japan - they've both controlled it, and seem to be able to continue almost normal life.
  • MonkeysMonkeys Posts: 757

    #BorisResign trending.

    What a cesspit.

    God knows how this generation would have coped with the War.

    Everyone seems to know exactly how to deal with a once-in-a-century pandemic.
  • BalrogBalrog Posts: 207

    I assume people are struggling to process that document that Peston has posted? It has the most profound implications for life.

    We are going to do a China and we may need to do it for 18 months.

    If we are lucky.....the doomsday scenario is normal life will never exist again.
    I know. But what I can't grasp is 300,000 deaths seems small fry compared to the country starving?

    I'm not sure these infectious disease models take into account general equilibrium.
    Part of the press conference said they try to minimise 3 types of death;
    - directly CV related
    - other deaths that would not occur if health service capacity wasnt all taken for CV patients
    - deaths eg suicides presumably, caused by the CV mitigation measures such as lockdown.

    This sounds like they are taking a system level view and was reassuring to me at least.
  • MonkeysMonkeys Posts: 757
    Alistair said:

    Monkeys said:

    Might read "Dracula."

    Found it a bit meh to be honest.

    I suspect it loses its punch when you effectively know everything about vampires already.
    Do you know any good invasion literature? Seems to be the time for it.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163

    It is. My brother in law has just been laid off from his shopfitting job today. ...

    I had to re-read that. I thought it said his "... his shoplifting job ...". I guess the reports of panic buying are having an effect.

    My nephew is also in media and wondering how to hold his business together. A decade of hard work looks to be on the edge of collapse.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    I’m not arguing whether the experts are wrong, but the way the information is being presented is poor, and causing unnecessary confusion.

    Watch Macron simply tell people how it is. Watch Boris and Trump waffle.

    I don't think they're waffling, I think that's harsh, they're saying it as it is.

    What do you think is waffling?
    Macron: “This is what we’re doing, these are the steps taken to mitigate the damage.”

    Johnson: “oh umm, maybe don’t socialise” “what about businesses that will go bust?” “🤷‍♂️“
    You do yourself no favours, as the advice was far stronger than that. You are correct that more needs to be said about what will be done to help businesses.
    Well its clearly the message is not getting through as no-one I have spoken to offline knows what the hell they are supposed to be doing or not doing.
    Did they watch it? It was pretty clear they want you to reduce social interaction. They aren't banning you from doing it, primarily because people should be responsible, and second it would be a huge drain on resources to enforce it.
    What the hell does “reduce social interaction” mean?
    To be honest I cannot see how anyone has a problem understanding that
    Well answer my question then:

    Does it mean reduce, or does it mean zero social interaction outside those who live within your home?
    It means reduce, its not a ban. Avoid unnecessary social interactions but treating the public as sentient thinking grown ups.
    What is a “necessary” social interaction?
    Going down the pub isn’t.
    Visiting your parent to provide essential care is.

    Draw your own line somewhere between those two,
    What normal person describes “providing essential care” as a “social interaction”?
    For the purposes of passing on an infection, it is a social interaction.
    Yes, I understand that. My point is that the Government and the press could be much clearer.

    In France they have been clear - do not leave your home unless going to work or x or y.
    Given that they probably don't want people to stop providing essential care it is not an issue! I imagine people think a social interaction is doing stuff together, which is what the government is advising against unless it is necessary.
    So I can go to the cinema as long as I go on my own.

    And sing happy birthday whilst washing my hands - Obvs
    I doubt they'll keep the cinema open just for you.
    I think Cineworld will go bust TBH it was in a terrible state debt wise before this.
  • FossFoss Posts: 1,019
    Sod it, tell me where I can go and get infected. I'll spend a week or so sweating it off and then I can get on with looking after my relations without worrying that I'll get sick when they're at their worst.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935

    It is. My brother in law has just been laid off from his shopfitting job today. ...

    I had to re-read that. I thought it said his "... his shoplifting job ...". I guess the reports of panic buying are having an effect.

    My nephew is also in media and wondering how to hold his business together. A decade of hard work looks to be on the edge of collapse.
    Hah, I read it that way too. A moment of jollity in an otherwise depressing post.
  • It is. My brother in law has just been laid off from his shopfitting job today. ...

    I had to re-read that. I thought it said his "... his shoplifting job ...". I guess the reports of panic buying are having an effect.

    My nephew is also in media and wondering how to hold his business together. A decade of hard work looks to be on the edge of collapse.
    My lad has only been in it since he finished Uni last year. He had really started getting contacts, getting his name passed on and was really buzzing. This has hit him hard.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,117

    RobD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    I’m not arguing whether the experts are wrong, but the way the information is being presented is poor, and causing unnecessary confusion.

    Watch Macron simply tell people how it is. Watch Boris and Trump waffle.

    I don't think they're waffling, I think that's harsh, they're saying it as it is.

    What do you think is waffling?
    Macron: “This is what we’re doing, these are the steps taken to mitigate the damage.”

    Johnson: “oh umm, maybe don’t socialise” “what about businesses that will go bust?” “🤷‍♂️“
    You do yourself no favours, as the advice was far stronger than that. You are correct that more needs to be said about what will be done to help businesses.
    Well its clearly the message is not getting through as no-one I have spoken to offline knows what the hell they are supposed to be doing or not doing.
    Did they watch it? It was pretty clear they want you to reduce social interaction. They aren't banning you from doing it, primarily because people should be responsible, and second it would be a huge drain on resources to enforce it.
    What the hell does “reduce social interaction” mean?
    To be honest I cannot see how anyone has a problem understanding that
    Well answer my question then:

    Does it mean reduce, or does it mean zero social interaction outside those who live within your home?
    It means reduce, its not a ban. Avoid unnecessary social interactions but treating the public as sentient thinking grown ups.
    What is a “necessary” social interaction?
    Going down the pub isn’t.
    Visiting your parent to provide essential care is.

    Draw your own line somewhere between those two,
    What normal person describes “providing essential care” as a “social interaction”?
    For the purposes of passing on an infection, it is a social interaction.
    Yes, I understand that. My point is that the Government and the press could be much clearer.

    In France they have been clear - do not leave your home unless going to work or x or y.
    Given that they probably don't want people to stop providing essential care it is not an issue! I imagine people think a social interaction is doing stuff together, which is what the government is advising against unless it is necessary.
    So why didn’t they just f*cking say that then??

    “Do not leave your home unless you have to.” “All museums, galleries, cinemas, bars, pubs, etc are to be closed.”

    If that is the aim, just say it. Anything else is just beating around the bush, or inviting people to interpret how they want.
    It must be incredibly sad to have such a poor view of your fellow man.
    Look at the Stereophonics last night in Cardiff.....
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,117

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    I’m not arguing whether the experts are wrong, but the way the information is being presented is poor, and causing unnecessary confusion.

    Watch Macron simply tell people how it is. Watch Boris and Trump waffle.

    I don't think they're waffling, I think that's harsh, they're saying it as it is.

    What do you think is waffling?
    Macron: “This is what we’re doing, these are the steps taken to mitigate the damage.”

    Johnson: “oh umm, maybe don’t socialise” “what about businesses that will go bust?” “🤷‍♂️“
    You do yourself no favours, as the advice was far stronger than that. You are correct that more needs to be said about what will be done to help businesses.
    Well its clearly the message is not getting through as no-one I have spoken to offline knows what the hell they are supposed to be doing or not doing.
    Did they watch it? It was pretty clear they want you to reduce social interaction. They aren't banning you from doing it, primarily because people should be responsible, and second it would be a huge drain on resources to enforce it.
    What the hell does “reduce social interaction” mean?
    To be honest I cannot see how anyone has a problem understanding that
    Well answer my question then:

    Does it mean reduce, or does it mean zero social interaction outside those who live within your home?
    It means reduce, its not a ban. Avoid unnecessary social interactions but treating the public as sentient thinking grown ups.
    What is a “necessary” social interaction?
    Does the government have to tell you exactly how to run your life or something? You have to make a judgement yourself on this. A necessary interaction might be buying groceries, or visiting someone who is on their deathbed. It's not going for a piss up down the pub.
    I’m sorry but you’re living in an idealistic dreamworld if you think people will not just interpret it as they want, unless explicitly told.

    This apologism for the government’s shirking of responsibility is ridiculous. It’s their job to tell us what to do in times of trouble, not to pass the buck.

    “You went round to somebody else’s house for tea so it’s your fault your dead.”
    Compulsion will come if people ignore the advice but I have faith in the common sense of the public to act in their and the nation's interest

    Do you want the police to have powers of arrest and prison sentences for some
    Yes

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,767
    Monkeys said:

    #BorisResign trending.

    What a cesspit.

    God knows how this generation would have coped with the War.

    Everyone seems to know exactly how to deal with a once-in-a-century pandemic.
    Whatever Boris is doing, then the correct answer is the opposite.

    Imagine Jezza, Seamus and Diane in charge of this national crisis!
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,037
    ydoethur said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    I’m not arguing whether the experts are wrong, but the way the information is being presented is poor, and causing unnecessary confusion.

    Watch Macron simply tell people how it is. Watch Boris and Trump waffle.

    I don't think they're waffling, I think that's harsh, they're saying it as it is.

    What do you think is waffling?
    Macron: “This is what we’re doing, these are the steps taken to mitigate the damage.”

    Johnson: “oh umm, maybe don’t socialise” “what about businesses that will go bust?” “🤷‍♂️“
    You do yourself no favours, as the advice was far stronger than that. You are correct that more needs to be said about what will be done to help businesses.
    Well its clearly the message is not getting through as no-one I have spoken to offline knows what the hell they are supposed to be doing or not doing.
    Did they watch it? It was pretty clear they want you to reduce social interaction. They aren't banning you from doing it, primarily because people should be responsible, and second it would be a huge drain on resources to enforce it.
    What the hell does “reduce social interaction” mean?
    Stay the fuck home.
    Or alternatively, stay at home and fuck.

    Which reminds me, why did you say earlier that prostitutes shouldn’t visit opticians? Is there something you don’t want them to see?
    I don't think anyone should be visiting opticians. Or prostitutes. If there are any premises offering both services, don't visit them either.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    I’m not arguing whether the experts are wrong, but the way the information is being presented is poor, and causing unnecessary confusion.

    Watch Macron simply tell people how it is. Watch Boris and Trump waffle.

    I don't think they're waffling, I think that's harsh, they're saying it as it is.

    What do you think is waffling?
    Macron: “This is what we’re doing, these are the steps taken to mitigate the damage.”

    Johnson: “oh umm, maybe don’t socialise” “what about businesses that will go bust?” “🤷‍♂️“
    £30 billion stimulus announced in the budget, funds for sick pay etc done before any French stimulus
    Sick pay is an irrelevance. The fact you can’t see that just says it all.

    30b stimulus is also an irrelevance.
    Sick pay is not an irrelevance, if you cannot work at home it will be what you are surviving on for the next few months
    Who can survive on £92 a week?

    Most people if they are only allowed out the house once a week for a food shop and their mortgage payments and evictions for non payment of rent suspended as is likely.

    Unemployment benefit is only £60 a week
    Hyufd, please learn to use commas.
    #We,dont,do,commas,here,mate
    There used to be a poster on here, TykeJohnno, who had the maddening habit of using commas without a following space. Drove me slightly mad.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    I wonder if that pangolin burger was worth it in Wuhan back in November?
  • Grand National cancelled.
  • RobD said:

    I wonder if that pangolin burger was worth it in Wuhan back in November?

    The pangolins are having the last laugh.
  • Don't worry folks. It doesn't matter that businesses small big and massive are about to go bust. Everyone will get SSP and HYUFD says we can all live on that just fine.

    Huzzah for Shagger!
  • You filthy meat eaters have got us into this mess. :D
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    In this report, they say they are following standard procedure for this type of condition and it doesn't work. I wonder what they did in China and are doing in Germany?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfkbv_WQtn0
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    Don't worry folks. It doesn't matter that businesses small big and massive are about to go bust. Everyone will get SSP and HYUFD says we can all live on that just fine.

    Huzzah for Shagger!

    With the tiny drawback that you need a job to qualify for SSP
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,570
    edited March 2020
    By the way folks

    if you want to do something to try and help out the fight against Coronavirus then you might consider downloading the folding@home programme from Stanford University. This is a distributed computing project for disease research which will use your spare cpu power to run computations to help with the research for new treatments for diseases. Right now it is doing a lot of work looking at the Coronavirus and particularly on the dynamics of the Covid-19 proteins

    https://foldingathome.org/start-folding/

    Well worth doing to try and help.

    If you are worried about downloading stuff to your own computer and the legitimacy of the programme you can find more details here:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folding@home

    Edit: I should add that they have had so many applications over the last 48 hours they are having to bring extra servers online so you may not immediately start working. But be patient. It is worth it.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    ydoethur said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    I’m not arguing whether the experts are wrong, but the way the information is being presented is poor, and causing unnecessary confusion.

    Watch Macron simply tell people how it is. Watch Boris and Trump waffle.

    I don't think they're waffling, I think that's harsh, they're saying it as it is.

    What do you think is waffling?
    Macron: “This is what we’re doing, these are the steps taken to mitigate the damage.”

    Johnson: “oh umm, maybe don’t socialise” “what about businesses that will go bust?” “🤷‍♂️“
    You do yourself no favours, as the advice was far stronger than that. You are correct that more needs to be said about what will be done to help businesses.
    Well its clearly the message is not getting through as no-one I have spoken to offline knows what the hell they are supposed to be doing or not doing.
    Did they watch it? It was pretty clear they want you to reduce social interaction. They aren't banning you from doing it, primarily because people should be responsible, and second it would be a huge drain on resources to enforce it.
    What the hell does “reduce social interaction” mean?
    Stay the fuck home.
    Or alternatively, stay at home and fuck.

    Which reminds me, why did you say earlier that prostitutes shouldn’t visit opticians? Is there something you don’t want them to see?
    I don't think anyone should be visiting opticians. Or prostitutes. If there are any premises offering both services, don't visit them either.
    Another business model holed below the waterline.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    edited March 2020
    I have not had the time to look at this thread.

    I have been with my daughter, who has been in tears at the prospect of losing the business she has worked so hard to build up, a business which is profitable, which employs 4 permanent members of staff, all of them with bills to pay and families to support, all of whom are the sole breadwinners.

    Insurance will not help. Boris advising people to stay away but not coming up with a support package is both frivolous and irresponsible. If the government thinks it important to close sectors for health reasons, then it should do so and provide compensation/support not pass the risk of government decisions to those least able to bear it.

    And in the meanwhile a plea: if you can, support your local pub, bar, restaurant, club, theatre or other business. If you want these to be there in future they need your support now. If you don’t want unemployment to soar - with all the misery that entails - remember that it is our children, our friends, colleagues, us who will face this prospect - then support your businesses.

    We have to be all in it together if we are going to survive this.

    (Apologies for the emotional nature of this post. It is heart-breaking to see the prospect of my daughter’s hard work disappear - and through no fault of her own. She is an example of what many many people in this country will be feeling and going through tonight.)
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935

    You filthy meat eaters have got us into this mess. :D

    I can live with a pandemic every hundred years if it means I can have a steak.

    :p
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695
    edited March 2020

    Monkeys said:

    #BorisResign trending.

    What a cesspit.

    God knows how this generation would have coped with the War.

    Everyone seems to know exactly how to deal with a once-in-a-century pandemic.
    Whatever Boris is doing, then the correct answer is the opposite.

    Imagine Jezza, Seamus and Diane in charge of this national crisis!
    Tbh watching Boris today I think T May would have been better in this situation - on top of the facts and clear, rather than the hesitant wiffle-waffle of Boris.

    Much better still, Blair would have been the best of recent PMs for this crisis.

    Nevertheless, we have to make do with Boris, so there it is.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,557
    Pyongyang airport still operating fine to Vladivostok, Shenyang and Beijing. Perhaps Easyjet or Ryanair could use some of their spare capacity to extend North Korea's range to include flights from Luton and London (Southend).
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,680
    edited March 2020
    To think, this week marks the eighth anniversary of another event that, at the time, seemed to shake politics, society and economics to their very foundations. George Osborne's Pasty Tax:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pasty_tax
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,767
    The Hill:

    "President Trump on Monday urged Americans to avoid traveling and gathering in public spaces in an effort to blunt the spread of the coronavirus, saying the outbreak could last into July or August."
This discussion has been closed.