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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » After the fall

SystemSystem Posts: 12,170
edited March 2020 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » After the fall

If shrunk to a comparable size, the earth would be smoother than a ping pong ball.  The earth’s atmosphere is thinner than the skin on a ping pong ball. Most of the time we forget how much our whole life is lived in a tiny margin and how dependent we are on its seeming stability.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,676
    edited March 2020
    Love that poem.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    We certainly live in interesting times.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    Thanks for the header, Alastair. :)
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,773
    This is truly a Black Swam.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675
    Tinky winky, Lala, Dipsy, and Poe.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675

    This is truly a Black Swam.

    Swam?
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    UK number 4 in the world for COVID19 deaths yesterday and today, after Italy, Iran and Spain.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    Jonathan said:

    This is truly a Black Swam.

    Swam?
    A sort of hybrid between a swan and a swarm.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    We are going to have to learn to make our own entertainment.

    OK, pb-ers - how do we connect with our older friends and family while they are under lockdown? Is there a way to play Scrabble or Bridge with them online for example? What fun can we have as a group?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,482

    We are going to have to learn to make our own entertainment.

    OK, pb-ers - how do we connect with our older friends and family while they are under lockdown? Is there a way to play Scrabble or Bridge with them online for example? What fun can we have as a group?

    That's a good question! I think my folks would like that.
  • Excellent header, Mr Meeks.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,218
    TimT said:

    IanB2 said:

    Anorak said:

    From an acquaintance:
    Just got off a Goldman Sachs Investee call where 1,500 companies dialed in. The key economic takeaways were:

    50% of Americans will contract the virus (150m people) as it's very communicable. This is on a par with the common cold (Rhinovirus) of which there are about 200 strains and which the majority of Americans will get 2-4 per year.

    70% of Germany will contract it (58M people). This is the next most relevant industrial economy to be effected.

    Peak-virus is expected over the next eight weeks, declining thereafter.

    Mortality rate on average of up to 2%, heavily weight towards the elderly and immunocompromised; meaning up to 3m people (150m*.02). In the US about 3m/yr die mostly due to old age and disease, those two being highly correlated (as a percent very few from accidents). There will be significant overlap, so this does not mean 3m new deaths from the virus, it means elderly people dying sooner due to respiratory issues. This may however stress the healthcare system.

    There is a debate as to how to address the virus pre-vaccine. The US is tending towards quarantine. The UK is tending towards allowing it to spread so that the population can develop a natural immunity. Quarantine is likely to be ineffective and result in significant economic damage but will slow the rate of transmission giving the healthcare system more time to deal with the case load.

    China’s economy has been largely impacted which has affected raw materials and the global supply chain. It may take up to six months for it to recover.

    Global GDP growth rate will be the lowest in 30 years at around 2%.

    There will be economic damage from the virus itself, but the real damage is driven mostly by market psychology. Viruses have been with us forever. Stock markets should fully recover in the 2nd half of the year.

    Technically the market generally has been looking for a reason to reset after the longest bull market in history.

    There is NO systemic risk. No one is even talking about that. Governments are intervening in the markets to stabilize them, and the private banking sector is very well capitalized. It feels more like 9/11 than it does like 2008.

    That’s the sort of short-term heavy analysis you’d expect from a financier, unused to contemplating the longer term impact of systemic and cultural changes.
    It sounds extraordinarily credible and not at all like whistling in the dark.
    My gut reaction to this is that it is incredibly optimistic - global growth, not even recession. It strikes me as a very narrow look at the financial fundamentals, without considering social reactions and other 2nd, 3rd, 4th etc... order impacts.

    Edit: that said, I hope it's correct.
    The 2% global growth is going to be simply wrong.

    The US will see its economy contract this year, as will China, as will the EU.

    Now, it's possible that China has a great second half (wouldn't surprise me a bit), but it's not going to have increased economic output for the year given how that 1H is going to be meaningfully down.
  • ukpaulukpaul Posts: 649
    edited March 2020
    FPT
    ukpaul said:

    Gadfly said:

    ukpaul said:

    I still can’t find out what was said about those with underlying conditions? I couldn’t watch the announcement and can’t find anything in the initial reports.

    Prof Whitty said the group of people who should take "particular care to minimise their social contact" were:

    People over the age of 70

    Other adults who would normally be advised to have the flu vaccine (such as those with chronic diseases)

    Pregnant women

    "Those are the groups we want to take particular care to minimise their social contact which of course will have very significant risks for them."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51917562
    WTF? They really do want hypertensives and people like me dead. What's the chance they suddenly realised that the significant comorbidity list included too many people and scrambled to find a way of cutting it down? This really is getting beyond a joke now (150/110 and I'm taking the max dose I'm allowed, if the virus doesn't get me the stroke/heart attack will!)

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,218
    rcs1000 said:

    The 2% global growth is going to be simply wrong.

    The US will see its economy contract this year, as will China, as will the EU.

    Now, it's possible that China has a great second half (wouldn't surprise me a bit), but it's not going to have increased economic output for the year given how that 1H is going to be meaningfully down.

    It is worth noting, though, that the world economy has some natural stabilisers. So, the collapse in the price of oil is a big benefit to countries who import lots of oil...

    Italy, for example, spends about 3% of GDP on importing oil from abroad. If the price of oil halves, that means they only send 1.5% abroad.

    Now, that's not going to help them much in the first half of the year, but it will in the second.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,773

    We are going to have to learn to make our own entertainment.

    OK, pb-ers - how do we connect with our older friends and family while they are under lockdown? Is there a way to play Scrabble or Bridge with them online for example? What fun can we have as a group?

    Words with Friends is basically scrabble and can be easily online on lots of devices.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,653
    Excellent piece. Reposting this as it continues Alastair's theme ...

    The health implications alone of Covid-19 are, of course, huge. But the economic ones are just massive. Huge numbers of businesses will be going under over the coming months - solid businesses run by good, responsible people who pay decent wages, but who rely on a healthy cashflow and never factored a global pandemic into their plans.

    When they go south, large numbers of people will lose their jobs, demand will drop, communities will fragment and depression will ensue. That's how these things work. The cost of that will be far, far greater than any the government - and us taxpayers subsequently - will have to bear to prevent it.

    This is an Act of God, a totally unpredictable Black Swan event, something this government and others could never have reasonably predicted. But as Alastair says, it has happened and it falls to us to deal with it - and to accept that in doing so it is going to exact a heavy price.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,482
    I
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The 2% global growth is going to be simply wrong.

    The US will see its economy contract this year, as will China, as will the EU.

    Now, it's possible that China has a great second half (wouldn't surprise me a bit), but it's not going to have increased economic output for the year given how that 1H is going to be meaningfully down.

    It is worth noting, though, that the world economy has some natural stabilisers. So, the collapse in the price of oil is a big benefit to countries who import lots of oil...

    Italy, for example, spends about 3% of GDP on importing oil from abroad. If the price of oil halves, that means they only send 1.5% abroad.

    Now, that's not going to help them much in the first half of the year, but it will in the second.
    As presumably will bumper sales of pasta and tinned tomatoes.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Well at least I now have less capital to pay for future care home needs, another area that will come back and bite the government as savings take a hammering.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,482
    Is grey vanilla something fixable? I'm sure it's no worse than normal vanilla but it is a stressful time for them to try a new look.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424

    We are going to have to learn to make our own entertainment.

    Well, that would reverse the population impact albeit this might not be the best time to be pregnant...
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    We are going to have to learn to make our own entertainment.

    OK, pb-ers - how do we connect with our older friends and family while they are under lockdown? Is there a way to play Scrabble or Bridge with them online for example? What fun can we have as a group?

    Strip poker wouldn’t be much fun though
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited March 2020
    ukpaul said:

    WTF? They really do want hypertensives and people like me dead. What's the chance they suddenly realised that the significant comorbidity list included too many people and scrambled to find a way of cutting it down? This really is getting beyond a joke now (150/110 and I'm taking the max dose I'm allowed, if the virus doesn't get me the stroke/heart attack will!)

    They were quite clear about people with underlying health conditions:

    [The PM] said the advice to avoid unnecessary social contact was particularly important for the over-70s, people with underlying health conditions and pregnant women. He said:

    "This advice about avoiding all unnecessary social contact, is particularly important for people over 70, for pregnant women and for those with some health conditions."


    He also said that there would be further specific advice soon for people with the most serious health conditions:

    In a few days’ time – by this coming weekend – it will be necessary to go further and to ensure that those with the most serious health conditions are largely shielded from social contact for around 12 weeks.

    And again the reason for doing this in the next few days, rather than earlier or later, is that this is going to be very disruptive for people who have such conditions, and difficult for them, but, I believe, it’s now necessary.

    And we want to ensure that this period of shielding, this period of maximum protection coincides with the peak of the disease.


    So I think you should be very careful over the next few days, but use the time to prepare as best you can for a quite long period of isolation.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2020/mar/16/boris-johnson-press-conference-coronavirus-live-firms-could-soon-be-allowed-to-run-reduced-services-because-of-coronavirus-shapps-suggests-politics-live
  • French going to 2 week lockdown.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766

    French going to 2 week lockdown.

    Yeh, that'll do it. Two weeks. No doubt.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036
    What's this from Hancock:

    'He also tells MPs that measures on shielding will be for those who have "significant health conditions”.They will be contacted by the NHS, he says.

    But he adds the measures were not aimed at the "generality of over 70s who are healthy".

    He says the guidance for those over 70 is the same as for people of working age, except that the government strongly advises social distancing measures.'

    So is this a blanket measure for the over 70s or not?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The 2% global growth is going to be simply wrong.

    The US will see its economy contract this year, as will China, as will the EU.

    Now, it's possible that China has a great second half (wouldn't surprise me a bit), but it's not going to have increased economic output for the year given how that 1H is going to be meaningfully down.

    It is worth noting, though, that the world economy has some natural stabilisers. So, the collapse in the price of oil is a big benefit to countries who import lots of oil...

    Italy, for example, spends about 3% of GDP on importing oil from abroad. If the price of oil halves, that means they only send 1.5% abroad.

    Now, that's not going to help them much in the first half of the year, but it will in the second.
    A US recession this year still on offer at 1.29 BFE
  • ukpaul said:

    FPT

    ukpaul said:

    Gadfly said:

    ukpaul said:

    I still can’t find out what was said about those with underlying conditions? I couldn’t watch the announcement and can’t find anything in the initial reports.

    Prof Whitty said the group of people who should take "particular care to minimise their social contact" were:

    People over the age of 70

    Other adults who would normally be advised to have the flu vaccine (such as those with chronic diseases)

    Pregnant women

    "Those are the groups we want to take particular care to minimise their social contact which of course will have very significant risks for them."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51917562
    WTF? They really do want hypertensives and people like me dead. What's the chance they suddenly realised that the significant comorbidity list included too many people and scrambled to find a way of cutting it down? This really is getting beyond a joke now (150/110 and I'm taking the max dose I'm allowed, if the virus doesn't get me the stroke/heart attack will!)

    Will there come a point when a political leader will reiterate the famous words from a US president of suddenly deteriorating life expectancy "don't ask what your country can do for you, ask yourself instead what you can do for your country"?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited March 2020
    I am slightly concerned the nudge unit might have under-estimated how a big a twat some people are....

    https://twitter.com/christianwolmar/status/1239227670602416131?s=20

    The answer to this you massive tool, is Yes. I don't care if you climbed mount Everest in your under-pants last year, you get this and you have a 10% chance of dying. Normally if you want to risk your life I would say I don't care, but if my Dad gets it after taking all the right precautions and this bell-end is taking up an ICU bed....

    As I previously mentioned, this is my concern. People have this natural tendency to think but I am a special case, therefore it can't apply to me.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    Excellent piece. Reposting this as it continues Alastair's theme ...

    The health implications alone of Covid-19 are, of course, huge. But the economic ones are just massive. Huge numbers of businesses will be going under over the coming months - solid businesses run by good, responsible people who pay decent wages, but who rely on a healthy cashflow and never factored a global pandemic into their plans.

    When they go south, large numbers of people will lose their jobs, demand will drop, communities will fragment and depression will ensue. That's how these things work. The cost of that will be far, far greater than any the government - and us taxpayers subsequently - will have to bear to prevent it.

    This is an Act of God, a totally unpredictable Black Swan event, something this government and others could never have reasonably predicted. But as Alastair says, it has happened and it falls to us to deal with it - and to accept that in doing so it is going to exact a heavy price.

    The same point from a US perspective:

    https://us.cnn.com/2020/03/16/economy/job-losses-coronavirus/index.html
  • I am slightly concerned the nudge unit might have under-estimated how a big a twat some people are....

    https://twitter.com/christianwolmar/status/1239227670602416131?s=20

    The answer to this you massive tool, is Yes. I don't care if you climbed mount Everest in your under-pants last year, you get this and you have a 10% chance of dying.

    Policy idea: Prison, but for idiots.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,914

    Excellent piece. Reposting this as it continues Alastair's theme ...

    The health implications alone of Covid-19 are, of course, huge. But the economic ones are just massive. Huge numbers of businesses will be going under over the coming months - solid businesses run by good, responsible people who pay decent wages, but who rely on a healthy cashflow and never factored a global pandemic into their plans.

    When they go south, large numbers of people will lose their jobs, demand will drop, communities will fragment and depression will ensue. That's how these things work. The cost of that will be far, far greater than any the government - and us taxpayers subsequently - will have to bear to prevent it.

    This is an Act of God, a totally unpredictable Black Swan event, something this government and others could never have reasonably predicted. But as Alastair says, it has happened and it falls to us to deal with it - and to accept that in doing so it is going to exact a heavy price.

    Except it was predicted after SARS and MERS, indeed something like this or worse was inevitable.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065
    A bit more background info about the counting of Covid-19 deaths in Germany. I have just looked up the detail on the Robert Koch Institute (RKI) website, who are the official German organisiation for following and responding to the epidimic.

    The figures are listed in a table and one column has the heading "Zahl be­stä­tig­ter Fälle (darunter Todes­fälle)" which translates as "number of confirmed cases (of which deaths)". So it is clear that the numbers in brackets are people who have tested positive and have died, regardless of what they have died of.
    The numbers in brackets, for yesterday's publication, add up to 13.
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,507

    We are going to have to learn to make our own entertainment.

    OK, pb-ers - how do we connect with our older friends and family while they are under lockdown? Is there a way to play Scrabble or Bridge with them online for example? What fun can we have as a group?

    That's a good question! I think my folks would like that.
    Wordfeud is an scrabble clone app. Words with friends too I think.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    Universal have just announced 16 upcoming movies are going day-and-date. Basically, simultaneous cinema and online releases. And as there won't be any cinemas.....
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766

    I am slightly concerned the nudge unit might have under-estimated how a big a twat some people are....

    https://twitter.com/christianwolmar/status/1239227670602416131?s=20

    The answer to this you massive tool, is Yes. I don't care if you climbed mount Everest in your under-pants last year, you get this and you have a 10% chance of dying. Normally if you want to risk your life I would say I don't care, but if my Dad gets it after taking all the right precautions and this bell-end is taking up an ICU bed....

    As I previously mentioned, this is my concern. People have this natural tendency to think but I am a special case, therefore it can't apply to me.

    I would be very surprised if the 'nudge' unit did not build in a 'twat' factor, seeing as it is about human behaviour.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    ydoethur said:

    We are going to have to learn to make our own entertainment.

    Well, that would reverse the population impact albeit this might not be the best time to be pregnant...
    Perfect timing by Charlotte Church, then.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766

    What's this from Hancock:

    'He also tells MPs that measures on shielding will be for those who have "significant health conditions”.They will be contacted by the NHS, he says.

    But he adds the measures were not aimed at the "generality of over 70s who are healthy".

    He says the guidance for those over 70 is the same as for people of working age, except that the government strongly advises social distancing measures.'

    So is this a blanket measure for the over 70s or not?

    Eh?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119

    French going to 2 week lockdown.

    "We are at war," the president said numerous times.

    And some in our media still think this is all about the shits and giggles of stitching Boris up.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139
    nichomar said:

    Well at least I now have less capital to pay for future care home needs, another area that will come back and bite the government as savings take a hammering.

    Unfortunately due to the mortality rate amongst over 70s and especially over 80s there will be rather fewer needing social care going forward
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited March 2020
    Going to be interesting if the notorious rule breaking French stick to this and what they do after 2 weeks.

    Wonder what the odds on the old Yellow Vest LARPers come out on as usual?
  • GideonWiseGideonWise Posts: 1,123

    I am slightly concerned the nudge unit might have under-estimated how a big a twat some people are....

    https://twitter.com/christianwolmar/status/1239227670602416131?s=20

    The answer to this you massive tool, is Yes. I don't care if you climbed mount Everest in your under-pants last year, you get this and you have a 10% chance of dying.

    As I previously mentioned, this is my concern. People have this natural tendency to think but I am a special case, therefore it can't apply to me.

    These people will soon clock on. Their ignorance is not terminal. It's the terminally ignorant selfish ones who are dangerous and for which something more than a nudge might be necessary.

    The sorts of people who go out in a lock down in Spain and chant football songs with shopping trolleys full of beers.

    Alternatively the morons back at home fighting over 1kg bags of sugar. We might need the army protecting supermarket staff soon if I what I heard from yesterday continues. There will be a riot.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    edited March 2020
    Does the government expect people who work in pubs to go to work, to serve an empty pub?
  • GideonWiseGideonWise Posts: 1,123
    Scott_xP said:
    So we are pivoting again towards lock down? Ouch.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766
    Great header. And quoting Gandalf. Yeh!
  • HYUFD said:

    nichomar said:

    Well at least I now have less capital to pay for future care home needs, another area that will come back and bite the government as savings take a hammering.

    Unfortunately due to the mortality rate amongst over 70s and especially over 80s there will be rather fewer needing social care going forward
    Mr Nichomar will undoubtedly find some solace in this fact.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    They currently estimate 35-50k people infected.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486

    Scott_xP said:
    So we are pivoting again towards lock down? Ouch.
    It does seem like the PBers who were sceptical of the government’s position last week have been proved right (that’s not me - I was neutral)
  • ukpaulukpaul Posts: 649

    Scott_xP said:
    So we are pivoting again towards lock down? Ouch.
    The question has to be asked.

    How the hell did they not bother to check this before?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766
    In a determination to try and stay positive in the face of the onslaught of bad news this evening (and I am a half empty chap in spades), I have resolved to make a small cottage garden flower bed this spring/summer in our garden.

    Cicero: "If you have a garden and a library, you have everything you need."

    Hoping old Cicero was right.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited March 2020
    ukpaul said:

    Scott_xP said:
    So we are pivoting again towards lock down? Ouch.
    The question has to be asked.

    How the hell did they not bother to check this before?
    This is the key bit of info that has caused the change....

    https://twitter.com/whippletom/status/1239619449533194242?s=20

    Clearly the initial model didn't anticipate anywhere near as many people requiring ICU and especially not among the young.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    The FTSE is manfully holding above 5000 but the Dow is within a day’s drop of 20000 (800 above).
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited March 2020
    This is the grimmest bit...

    https://twitter.com/whippletom/status/1239630012275449863?s=20

    No vaccine or massive break through and we are all f##ked.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    "They modelled controlled spread and realised 250,000 would die."

    Are the PBers that were defending the (apparent) Gov't policy on this going to admit they got it wrong ?
  • ukpaulukpaul Posts: 649
    J

    ukpaul said:

    Scott_xP said:
    So we are pivoting again towards lock down? Ouch.
    The question has to be asked.

    How the hell did they not bother to check this before?
    This is the key bit of info that has caused the change....

    https://twitter.com/whippletom/status/1239619449533194242?s=20

    Clearly the initial model didn't anticipate anywhere near as many people requiring ICU and especially not among the young.
    This was known before the announcement on Thursday, though. It suggests they’ve not been keeping up with developments.
  • GideonWiseGideonWise Posts: 1,123
    Fucking hell. This is a nightmare. This is a world war calamity.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    ukpaul said:

    J

    ukpaul said:

    Scott_xP said:
    So we are pivoting again towards lock down? Ouch.
    The question has to be asked.

    How the hell did they not bother to check this before?
    This is the key bit of info that has caused the change....

    https://twitter.com/whippletom/status/1239619449533194242?s=20

    Clearly the initial model didn't anticipate anywhere near as many people requiring ICU and especially not among the young.
    This was known before the announcement on Thursday, though. It suggests they’ve not been keeping up with developments.
    I don't know, initially it was all about the old. Now all European countries are increasingly talking about just how many younger people they are getting.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    They currently estimate 35-50k people infected.

    50 per constituency with probably double that in London and some hotspots.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766

    This is the grimmest bit...

    https://twitter.com/whippletom/status/1239630012275449863?s=20

    No vaccine or massive break through and we are all f##ked.

    What happened to herd immunity?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766

    ukpaul said:

    Scott_xP said:
    So we are pivoting again towards lock down? Ouch.
    The question has to be asked.

    How the hell did they not bother to check this before?
    This is the key bit of info that has caused the change....

    https://twitter.com/whippletom/status/1239619449533194242?s=20

    Clearly the initial model didn't anticipate anywhere near as many people requiring ICU and especially not among the young.
    But, is something different about Italy? Very close social contact for example?

    Why has Germany not got these rates?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    This is the grimmest bit...

    https://twitter.com/whippletom/status/1239630012275449863?s=20

    No vaccine or massive break through and we are all f##ked.

    No, we just end up with Boris’s plan A by default, and make the best of it. As people did throughout history prior to the last century.
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092

    Fucking hell. This is a nightmare. This is a world war calamity.
    Imagine if we had a decisive government that had done what was needed before it was too late.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,003
    I don't know if PtP made it to Cheltenham last week. I chickened out. I hope he did too.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    Pulpstar said:

    "They modelled controlled spread and realised 250,000 would die."

    Are the PBers that were defending the (apparent) Gov't policy on this going to admit they got it wrong ?

    Let's see how humanity does in lockdown for four or more months.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208

    Scott_xP said:
    So we are pivoting again towards lock down? Ouch.
    The herd immunity strategy looks to be over. It's going to be lockdown, like everywhere else
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    Governor Larry Hogan announces bars and restaurants in MD to be closed.

    https://governor.maryland.gov/2020/03/16/governor-hogan-orders-closure-of-bars-and-restaurants-announces-unprecedented-public-health-surge-to-combat-covid-19-crisis/

    Guess we'll have to travel to DC or VA to eat out now ;)
  • HYUFD said:

    nichomar said:

    Well at least I now have less capital to pay for future care home needs, another area that will come back and bite the government as savings take a hammering.

    Unfortunately due to the mortality rate amongst over 70s and especially over 80s there will be rather fewer needing social care going forward
    That is truly a disgusting comment. Shame on you
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176

    Fucking hell. This is a nightmare. This is a world war calamity.
    Imagine if we had a decisive government that had done what was needed before it was too late.
    Sadly, it became too late many weeks ago - and it really needed a global shutdown of air travel. The last few days has been about which form of disaster we'd like.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,291

    This is truly a Black Swam.

    Outside of the sudden eruption of WW3 it's hard to imagine a bigger black swan...
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036
    tlg86 said:

    Fucking hell. This is a nightmare. This is a world war calamity.
    Imagine if we had a decisive government that had done what was needed before it was too late.
    Sadly, it became too late many weeks ago - and it really needed a global shutdown of air travel. The last few days has been about which form of disaster we'd like.
    New Zealand may be the only country to have acted quickly enough.
  • GideonWiseGideonWise Posts: 1,123

    Fucking hell. This is a nightmare. This is a world war calamity.
    Imagine if we had a decisive government that had done what was needed before it was too late.
    Devil and the deep blue sea.

    There is no easy answer. But at least the herd strategy had some light at the end of the tunnel.

    The perpetual lock down is just too brutal to contemplate. It is people starving territory. Dig for Britain stuff.

    Sell everything.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    TimT said:

    Governor Larry Hogan announces bars and restaurants in MD to be closed.

    https://governor.maryland.gov/2020/03/16/governor-hogan-orders-closure-of-bars-and-restaurants-announces-unprecedented-public-health-surge-to-combat-covid-19-crisis/

    Guess we'll have to travel to DC or VA to eat out now ;)

    Fredericksburg has some good restaurants.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992

    We are going to have to learn to make our own entertainment.

    OK, pb-ers - how do we connect with our older friends and family while they are under lockdown? Is there a way to play Scrabble or Bridge with them online for example? What fun can we have as a group?

    Great idea. My mother plays both Scrabble and bridge online. The EBU is your friend there for bridge. Many Scrabble community apps also. My mother was 90 today and we can barely get through to her as she is always in the middle of one game or another. Self isolation is a lot easier that way I can assure you.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    Scott_xP said:

    I don't know if PtP made it to Cheltenham last week. I chickened out. I hope he did too.

    I went. Tuesday and Wednesday. Before the storm or we are looking out for a post Cheltenham upsurge. In Ireland particularly.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    HYUFD said:

    nichomar said:

    Well at least I now have less capital to pay for future care home needs, another area that will come back and bite the government as savings take a hammering.

    Unfortunately due to the mortality rate amongst over 70s and especially over 80s there will be rather fewer needing social care going forward
    Mr Nichomar will undoubtedly find some solace in this fact.
    It’s all very strange the world has turned upside down so many times since 2015 both personally and politically. I hope someone has a well structured diary that can be published in the aftermath of all this to explain how those who survive did so. Humour will help us through This and there are some cracking videos out there to lighten the gloom. The biggest lesson I think I have learnt is that to claim any certainty about the future is stupid, I haven’t got a clue what will happen tomorrow and I doubt anyone else has.

    Party politics, brexit etc are, at the moment irrelevant all we can do is share information which helps to frame decisions, both financial and betting. As Bruce would have said ...keep posting!
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    The Dow striking down toward 20000 in the closing half hour. Down about 2200 points in a day, surely a record,
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139
    edited March 2020

    HYUFD said:

    nichomar said:

    Well at least I now have less capital to pay for future care home needs, another area that will come back and bite the government as savings take a hammering.

    Unfortunately due to the mortality rate amongst over 70s and especially over 80s there will be rather fewer needing social care going forward
    That is truly a disgusting comment. Shame on you
    It was a statement of fact prefaced by the word 'unfortunately'
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    @HYUFD

    Macron announces a total shut down of French society, but along with it, an actual plan for mitigation:

    https://twitter.com/kjalee/status/1239634230973521922?s=21

    Boris just says ‘you shouldn’t attend social events. Any questions?’
  • Scott_xP said:

    I don't know if PtP made it to Cheltenham last week. I chickened out. I hope he did too.

    I was there, Scott, worrying about you! Glad to hear you are ok.

    I'm fine, but nervous like many others.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139

    @HYUFD

    Macron announces a total shut down of French society, but along with it, an actual plan for mitigation:

    https://twitter.com/kjalee/status/1239634230973521922?s=21

    Boris just says ‘you shouldn’t attend social events. Any questions?’

    Little different to what Sunak already announced in the budget and more can be added if needed
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,291

    This is the grimmest bit...

    https://twitter.com/whippletom/status/1239630012275449863?s=20

    No vaccine or massive break through and we are all f##ked.

    I've heard chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine (a relatively cheap and widely available anti-malaria drug) is looking quite promising as a treatment in clinical trials so that might be something while we wait for a vaccine...
  • GideonWiseGideonWise Posts: 1,123
    What happens when no vaccine is found. Just ponder on that pbers.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    HYUFD said:

    @HYUFD

    Macron announces a total shut down of French society, but along with it, an actual plan for mitigation:

    https://twitter.com/kjalee/status/1239634230973521922?s=21

    Boris just says ‘you shouldn’t attend social events. Any questions?’

    Little different to what Sunak already announced in the budget and more can be added if needed
    Well when are they going to be added?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    Pulpstar said:

    "They modelled controlled spread and realised 250,000 would die."

    Are the PBers that were defending the (apparent) Gov't policy on this going to admit they got it wrong ?

    There should certainly be some apologies from those who patronised anyone who was sceptical.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    GIN1138 said:

    This is the grimmest bit...

    https://twitter.com/whippletom/status/1239630012275449863?s=20

    No vaccine or massive break through and we are all f##ked.

    I've heard chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine (a relatively cheap and widely available anti-malaria drug) is looking quite promising as a treatment in clinical trials so that might be something while we wait for a vaccine...
    Hence why private sales of those were banned a week or so back.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424
    edited March 2020

    Great header. And quoting Gandalf. Yeh!

    But no sneaky fuckers or reluctant Turkish conscripts.

    I actually was thinking of another Gandalf quote which might be pertinent to one poster: ‘Deserves death! I daresay he does. Many who live deserve death. And some who die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement.’
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208

    This is the grimmest bit...

    https://twitter.com/whippletom/status/1239630012275449863?s=20

    No vaccine or massive break through and we are all f##ked.

    Routine testing. Those that test negative can go about their daily business, while sporadic outbreaks can be picked up quickly. But you need to keep/get the epidemic under control first, hence the requirement for an immediate and comprehensive lockdown.

    Asian countries called this right, I believe. They had the experience of SARS
  • GideonWiseGideonWise Posts: 1,123
    How will we feed ourselves if we need to lock down for 18 months?

    Our food growers will also be locked down for 18 months too. How will they grow our food?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    FF43 said:

    This is the grimmest bit...

    https://twitter.com/whippletom/status/1239630012275449863?s=20

    No vaccine or massive break through and we are all f##ked.

    Routine testing. Those that test negative can go about their daily business, while sporadic outbreaks can be picked up quickly. But you need to keep/get the epidemic under control first, hence the requirement for an immediate and comprehensive lockdown.

    Asian countries called this right, I believe. They had the experience of SARS
    I guess you're not including China in that? I mean, they did try to cover it up to begin with.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695
    Wow! That's a very moving poem and great thread header.

    Thanks Alastair (and EAP!)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139

    What happens when no vaccine is found. Just ponder on that pbers.

    There was no vaccine for Black Death, the Great Plague of the 1660s and Spanish flu but eventually they died out
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    HYUFD said:

    @HYUFD

    Macron announces a total shut down of French society, but along with it, an actual plan for mitigation:

    https://twitter.com/kjalee/status/1239634230973521922?s=21

    Boris just says ‘you shouldn’t attend social events. Any questions?’

    Little different to what Sunak already announced in the budget and more can be added if needed
    Nevetheless France has made it real. Suspect tomorrow may see a market rebound (various PB’ers should now be buyers, based on previously declared yardsticks) so am closing out all positions tonight.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Trump's CDC advisor at the Press Conference quoting UK scientists saying to keep home for 14 days if anyone in household is infected

    Interesting that she's referring to our scientists as where their actions are coming from..
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139

    How will we feed ourselves if we need to lock down for 18 months?

    Our food growers will also be locked down for 18 months too. How will they grow our food?

    Essential food shops and producers and farmers will stay open and working and producing
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    nichomar said:

    Well at least I now have less capital to pay for future care home needs, another area that will come back and bite the government as savings take a hammering.

    Unfortunately due to the mortality rate amongst over 70s and especially over 80s there will be rather fewer needing social care going forward
    That is truly a disgusting comment. Shame on you
    It was a statement of fact prefaced by the word 'unfortunately'
    It is simply disgusting and shames you for stating it

    There are many of us in the highest risk category doing all we can to isolate ourselves and prevent becoming a burden on the NHS and your insensitivity reflects a seriously unsympathetic attitude to the elderly and life itself

    You need to think before you spout such ill considered comments

    We all need to be kinder and understanding.

    You have a big lesson to learn
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    What are the French going to do after 2 weeks?

    It is clear that the modellers here think you need many months lockdown.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    tlg86 said:

    FF43 said:

    This is the grimmest bit...

    https://twitter.com/whippletom/status/1239630012275449863?s=20

    No vaccine or massive break through and we are all f##ked.

    Routine testing. Those that test negative can go about their daily business, while sporadic outbreaks can be picked up quickly. But you need to keep/get the epidemic under control first, hence the requirement for an immediate and comprehensive lockdown.

    Asian countries called this right, I believe. They had the experience of SARS
    I guess you're not including China in that? I mean, they did try to cover it up to begin with.
    I do include China. They were understandably caught out by being first, but once they realised what was going on, they appear to be textbook.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176

    Trump's CDC advisor at the Press Conference quoting UK scientists saying to keep home for 14 days if anyone in household is infected

    Interesting that she's referring to our scientists as where their actions are coming from..

    Her comment about ventilators is another hostage to fortune.
This discussion has been closed.