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  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    eadric said:

    geoffw said:

    Charles said:

    Chameleon said:

    Charles said:

    eadric said:

    https://twitter.com/AlexInAir/status/1235967126613168135?s=20

    BA have suspended half their LHR SIN 380 flights


    We're about two weeks away from the total suspension of almost all international air traffic.
    Less than that
    Gosh, if I had holiday trips booked to say Rome, Como, and Spain in late March and April I'd be really quite annoyed at this turn in events...
    I have been told - but I cannot verify although I trust the source - that closing all international borders is being discussed at an intergovernmental level
    The stable door manoeuvre.
    ONE horse has bolted. That's not good. But at least half a dozen remain in their stables, eyeing the open door.

    So lock the door.
    This is the saying I always get wrong:

    "Bolting the stable door after the horse has, er... bolted?"
    Closing the door (not locking - you don't do that with stable doors because of fire risks).
  • alteregoalterego Posts: 1,100
    edited March 2020
    Foxy said:

    Flanner said:

    The long term damage to brand China is going to be huge over this.

    Do you think? I don't think they have a brand really. Chinese products are cheaper, or better value let's say. That's it. That's no offence to China - I fully admire them for their achievement of economic dominance, but I don't see their prospect of future business being damaged providing their products remain cheaper than the competition.
    On the contrary.

    In my industry (clothing) China has an extraordinarily strong brand - among professional clothing buyers. A country of limited creative or stylistic skills (which don't matter, since most designing's done in the West), but a formidably reliable network of businesses supplying raw materials, key components (like buttons and zips) and on-time, high-quality, garment assembly.

    If anything, I'd say that brand has been strengthened by the country's robust response to the crisis. Everyone knows the place is run by unaccountable and out of touch politicians, so no-one's surprised the issue was badly fudged in the early days.

    But the contrast between the ruthlessness of China's containment programme since late Jan and the self-deceiving, lackadaisical, behaviour of the White House and the cockups in Italy, Japan and Korea, is stark.

    In Jan, I'd say there was a case for repatriating production (though it's currently impossible). With the haplessness four Western countries are showing (and that Johnson is still showing on most other issues), China's reputation for Teutonic reliability once it knows what the problem is has probably improved over the past month.
    I don't think Korea is doing badly. These are their infection and mortality figures btw.

    https://twitter.com/YangeHan/status/1235866453028438019?s=09
    I've ticked most risk boxes up to now but this has cheered me up as I'm not young or religious or female
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,720
    eadric said:

    geoffw said:

    Saw a couple wearing facemasks in Waitrose this afternoon. Could have been Chinese, oriental anyway. No one paid them any attention - this is Edinburgh, Morningside. Then on my way home saw another, jogging. I hope it doesn't become the new normal. My normalcy bias showing there.

    The only reason it won't become the new normal is because all the masks have already sold out (to people like me)
    Yeah, local pharmacists have notices on their doors here saying they've run out of santitizing hand gel and face masks. So it was you! Very public spirited of you, saving us all from YOUR germs.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695
    This is a massive conundrum for the government (perhaps for all governments): Lock the system down and totally trash the economy, or protect the economy and allow the virus to take its course.

    They might like to consider that more people would probably die as a result of a trashed economy than from the virus.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    GIN1138 said:

    How come we've not heard anything about anti-virals so far? During the Swine Flu pandemic the whole knew about "Tamiflu" but this time, so far, we've heard nothing about trials etc?

    Nearly all antiviral are species specific.

    There are some trials, particularly remdesivir and some HIV drugs that work on protease.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695
    geoffw said:

    eadric said:

    geoffw said:

    Saw a couple wearing facemasks in Waitrose this afternoon. Could have been Chinese, oriental anyway. No one paid them any attention - this is Edinburgh, Morningside. Then on my way home saw another, jogging. I hope it doesn't become the new normal. My normalcy bias showing there.

    The only reason it won't become the new normal is because all the masks have already sold out (to people like me)
    Yeah, local pharmacists have notices on their doors here saying they've run out of santitizing hand gel and face masks. So it was you! Very public spirited of you, saving us all from YOUR germs.
    If you see someone wandering around with 10 masks on, at least you know it's Sean! :lol:
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,596

    eadric said:

    tlg86 said:

    Charles said:

    Chameleon said:

    Charles said:

    eadric said:

    https://twitter.com/AlexInAir/status/1235967126613168135?s=20

    BA have suspended half their LHR SIN 380 flights


    We're about two weeks away from the total suspension of almost all international air traffic.
    Less than that
    Gosh, if I had holiday trips booked to say Rome, Como, and Spain in late March and April I'd be really quite annoyed at this turn in events...
    I have been told - but I cannot verify although I trust the source - that closing all international borders is being discussed at an intergovernmental level
    It's the only way to fix this thing. Lock down, isolate, quarantine. Heal the sick. Smooth the pandemic curve then develop the vaccine.
    Absolute nonsense. Countries vary in size from about 1000 people to 1.4 bn people. How can country level possibly be the right unit to lock down when it is so randomly varied?
    I think in our case, country level is the only viable approach to this method.
    We are an island nation. Sometimes this works against us (we become literally insular and backward) sometimes it works in our favour. We are able to control our borders in a way few nations can.

    Note that some of the countries doing better, already, at containing Coronavirus. are also islands: Hong Kong, Japan, Taiwan, Singapore (sort of an island).

    Closing our island frontier will be economically grim. 1m dead and 3m in "hospital" will be far, far grimmer.

    This plague is about as bad as it gets, potentially. Wartime measures are required.
    People do actually die anyway in Britain - Quite a lot actually probably not far off that 1M a year so it not exactly zombie takeover - Its funny this hyberbole in a way but you seem to be getting sincere supporters
    It's about 0.5m deaths a year in the UK. And if it got as bad as ~1m UK deaths from this virus, I should imagine that *very many* of those 0.5m "regular" deaths would now be "from coronavirus" (as a disproportionate number of virus deaths will be those with pre-existing conditions). So it may be that we reach about a 2x normal annual death rate. Which is an exceptional situation, dreadful for those affected, but not the apocalypse.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,720
    Cyclefree said:

    geoffw said:

    Charles said:

    Chameleon said:

    Charles said:

    eadric said:

    https://twitter.com/AlexInAir/status/1235967126613168135?s=20

    BA have suspended half their LHR SIN 380 flights


    We're about two weeks away from the total suspension of almost all international air traffic.
    Less than that
    Gosh, if I had holiday trips booked to say Rome, Como, and Spain in late March and April I'd be really quite annoyed at this turn in events...
    I have been told - but I cannot verify although I trust the source - that closing all international borders is being discussed at an intergovernmental level
    The stable door manoeuvre.
    And how would Britain import the food it needs if that happened?
    Indeed. My comment was meant to be ironic.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,720

    This is a massive conundrum for the government (perhaps for all governments): Lock the system down and totally trash the economy, or protect the economy and allow the virus to take its course.

    They might like to consider that more people would probably die as a result of a trashed economy than from the virus.

    I'm sure they do, as part of such a calculus.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,291
    Foxy said:

    GIN1138 said:

    How come we've not heard anything about anti-virals so far? During the Swine Flu pandemic the whole knew about "Tamiflu" but this time, so far, we've heard nothing about trials etc?

    There are some trials, particularly remdesivir and some HIV drugs that work on protease.
    Interesting.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,841

    This is a massive conundrum for the government (perhaps for all governments): Lock the system down and totally trash the economy, or protect the economy and allow the virus to take its course.

    They might like to consider that more people would probably die as a result of a trashed economy than from the virus.

    And how long are they going to ( or even how long can they?) lock down for? There is no guarantee this virus wont be part of life for the next generation or two.
  • MonkeysMonkeys Posts: 757
    eadric said:
    His lungs are already iron, much like his hair is purest silicon.
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264
    alterego said:

    Foxy said:

    Flanner said:

    The long term damage to brand China is going to be huge over this.

    Do you think? I don't think they have a brand really. Chinese products are cheaper, or better value let's say. That's it. That's no offence to China - I fully admire them for their achievement of economic dominance, but I don't see their prospect of future business being damaged providing their products remain cheaper than the competition.
    On the contrary.

    In my industry (clothing) China has an extraordinarily strong brand - among professional clothing buyers. A country of limited creative or stylistic skills (which don't matter, since most designing's done in the West), but a formidably reliable network of businesses supplying raw materials, key components (like buttons and zips) and on-time, high-quality, garment assembly.

    If anything, I'd say that brand has been strengthened by the country's robust response to the crisis. Everyone knows the place is run by unaccountable and out of touch politicians, so no-one's surprised the issue was badly fudged in the early days.

    But the contrast between the ruthlessness of China's containment programme since late Jan and the self-deceiving, lackadaisical, behaviour of the White House and the cockups in Italy, Japan and Korea, is stark.

    In Jan, I'd say there was a case for repatriating production (though it's currently impossible). With the haplessness four Western countries are showing (and that Johnson is still showing on most other issues), China's reputation for Teutonic reliability once it knows what the problem is has probably improved over the past month.
    I don't think Korea is doing badly. These are their infection and mortality figures btw.

    https://twitter.com/YangeHan/status/1235866453028438019?s=09
    I've ticked most risk boxes up to now but this has cheered me up as I'm not young or religious or female
    Why do you think so few are dying in Korea? It's because they're young and female (I'm gonna leave the religious bit well alone).
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695
    IshmaelZ said:

    eadric said:

    geoffw said:

    Charles said:

    Chameleon said:

    Charles said:

    eadric said:

    https://twitter.com/AlexInAir/status/1235967126613168135?s=20

    BA have suspended half their LHR SIN 380 flights


    We're about two weeks away from the total suspension of almost all international air traffic.
    Less than that
    Gosh, if I had holiday trips booked to say Rome, Como, and Spain in late March and April I'd be really quite annoyed at this turn in events...
    I have been told - but I cannot verify although I trust the source - that closing all international borders is being discussed at an intergovernmental level
    The stable door manoeuvre.
    ONE horse has bolted. That's not good. But at least half a dozen remain in their stables, eyeing the open door.

    So lock the door.
    This is the saying I always get wrong:

    "Bolting the stable door after the horse has, er... bolted?"
    Closing the door (not locking - you don't do that with stable doors because of fire risks).
    I know, I know. But I am always three or four words into the sentence before I realise I have started with the ending.
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264

    eadric said:

    geoffw said:

    Charles said:

    Chameleon said:

    Charles said:

    eadric said:

    https://twitter.com/AlexInAir/status/1235967126613168135?s=20

    BA have suspended half their LHR SIN 380 flights


    We're about two weeks away from the total suspension of almost all international air traffic.
    Less than that
    Gosh, if I had holiday trips booked to say Rome, Como, and Spain in late March and April I'd be really quite annoyed at this turn in events...
    I have been told - but I cannot verify although I trust the source - that closing all international borders is being discussed at an intergovernmental level
    The stable door manoeuvre.
    ONE horse has bolted. That's not good. But at least half a dozen remain in their stables, eyeing the open door.

    So lock the door.
    This is the saying I always get wrong:

    "Bolting the stable door after the horse has, er... bolted?"
    I presume that when you drop a carton of milk you let the rest leak out, instead of righting it and preventing any more leaking onto the floor?
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    matt said:

    Charles said:

    I have a personal problem with the Covid-19 outbreak. I'm due to be hosting leaving drinks in late April. Do I book them or don't I?

    Postpone. People will understand.
    That’s where I’m heading, though in practice it would mean cancellation given the way things move on. It’s a shame because it would have been nice to mark 28 years with the firm, but I have to recognise reality.
    The waters close quickly. Hopefully, you’ve left a material legacy, be it pushing forward good people or making a difference. Most Partners don’t.
    I’ve told my team that if I’ve done my job properly they’ll all have forgotten me in six weeks. I’m content I’m leaving a good team. Whether I’ve made a difference is for others to judge.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    mwadams said:

    eadric said:

    tlg86 said:

    Charles said:

    Chameleon said:

    Charles said:

    eadric said:

    https://twitter.com/AlexInAir/status/1235967126613168135?s=20

    BA have suspended half their LHR SIN 380 flights


    We're about two weeks away from the total suspension of almost all international air traffic.
    Less than that
    Gosh, if I had holiday trips booked to say Rome, Como, and Spain in late March and April I'd be really quite annoyed at this turn in events...
    I have been told - but I cannot verify although I trust the source - that closing all international borders is being discussed at an intergovernmental level
    It's the only way to fix this thing. Lock down, isolate, quarantine. Heal the sick. Smooth the pandemic curve then develop the vaccine.
    Absolute nonsense. Countries vary in size from about 1000 people to 1.4 bn people. How can country level possibly be the right unit to lock down when it is so randomly varied?
    I think in our case, country level is the only viable approach to this method.
    We are an island nation. Sometimes this works against us (we become literally insular and backward) sometimes it works in our favour. We are able to control our borders in a way few nations can.

    Note that some of the countries doing better, already, at containing Coronavirus. are also islands: Hong Kong, Japan, Taiwan, Singapore (sort of an island).

    Closing our island frontier will be economically grim. 1m dead and 3m in "hospital" will be far, far grimmer.

    This plague is about as bad as it gets, potentially. Wartime measures are required.
    People do actually die anyway in Britain - Quite a lot actually probably not far off that 1M a year so it not exactly zombie takeover - Its funny this hyberbole in a way but you seem to be getting sincere supporters
    It's about 0.5m deaths a year in the UK. And if it got as bad as ~1m UK deaths from this virus, I should imagine that *very many* of those 0.5m "regular" deaths would now be "from coronavirus" (as a disproportionate number of virus deaths will be those with pre-existing conditions). So it may be that we reach about a 2x normal annual death rate. Which is an exceptional situation, dreadful for those affected, but not the apocalypse.
    Really? As a broad rule of thumb there aren't many facts of life you can multiply by 2 and not really notice. The rate of income tax? number of cars on the road? standard working day? number of patients per hospital/gp surgery?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695
    Chameleon said:

    eadric said:

    geoffw said:

    Charles said:

    Chameleon said:

    Charles said:

    eadric said:

    https://twitter.com/AlexInAir/status/1235967126613168135?s=20

    BA have suspended half their LHR SIN 380 flights


    We're about two weeks away from the total suspension of almost all international air traffic.
    Less than that
    Gosh, if I had holiday trips booked to say Rome, Como, and Spain in late March and April I'd be really quite annoyed at this turn in events...
    I have been told - but I cannot verify although I trust the source - that closing all international borders is being discussed at an intergovernmental level
    The stable door manoeuvre.
    ONE horse has bolted. That's not good. But at least half a dozen remain in their stables, eyeing the open door.

    So lock the door.
    This is the saying I always get wrong:

    "Bolting the stable door after the horse has, er... bolted?"
    I presume that when you drop a carton of milk you let the rest leak out, instead of righting it and preventing any more leaking onto the floor?
    Whenever I drop a carton of milk it always lands butter side down :wink:
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Nigelb said:

    Charles said:

    I have a personal problem with the Covid-19 outbreak. I'm due to be hosting leaving drinks in late April. Do I book them or don't I?

    Postpone. People will understand.
    That’s where I’m heading, though in practice it would mean cancellation given the way things move on. It’s a shame because it would have been nice to mark 28 years with the firm, but I have to recognise reality.
    We could always take you on a massive piss-up later in the year, Alastair?

    Pb looks out for its own.
    Count me in.
    If there is a post viral PB meet-up, I’d make the effort too.
    PB meet-up: 28 Days Later.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695

    Nigelb said:

    Charles said:

    I have a personal problem with the Covid-19 outbreak. I'm due to be hosting leaving drinks in late April. Do I book them or don't I?

    Postpone. People will understand.
    That’s where I’m heading, though in practice it would mean cancellation given the way things move on. It’s a shame because it would have been nice to mark 28 years with the firm, but I have to recognise reality.
    We could always take you on a massive piss-up later in the year, Alastair?

    Pb looks out for its own.
    Count me in.
    If there is a post viral PB meet-up, I’d make the effort too.
    PB meet-up: 28 Days Later.
    28 days later than when?
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,816
    IshmaelZ said:

    mwadams said:

    eadric said:

    tlg86 said:

    Charles said:

    Chameleon said:

    Charles said:

    eadric said:

    https://twitter.com/AlexInAir/status/1235967126613168135?s=20

    BA have suspended half their LHR SIN 380 flights


    We're about two weeks away from the total suspension of almost all international air traffic.
    Less than that
    Gosh, if I had holiday trips booked to say Rome, Como, and Spain in late March and April I'd be really quite annoyed at this turn in events...
    I have been told - but I cannot verify although I trust the source - that closing all international borders is being discussed at an intergovernmental level
    It's the only way to fix this thing. Lock down, isolate, quarantine. Heal the sick. Smooth the pandemic curve then develop the vaccine.
    Absolute nonsense. Countries vary in size from about 1000 people to 1.4 bn people. How can country level possibly be the right unit to lock down when it is so randomly varied?
    I think in our case, country level is the only viable approach to this method.
    We are an island nation. Sometimes this works against us (we become literally insular and backward) sometimes it works in our favour. We are able to control our borders in a way few nations can.

    Note that some of the countries doing better, already, at containing Coronavirus. are also islands: Hong Kong, Japan, Taiwan, Singapore (sort of an island).

    Closing our island frontier will be economically grim. 1m dead and 3m in "hospital" will be far, far grimmer.

    This plague is about as bad as it gets, potentially. Wartime measures are required.
    People do actually die anyway in Britain - Quite a lot actually probably not far off that 1M a year so it not exactly zombie takeover - Its funny this hyberbole in a way but you seem to be getting sincere supporters
    It's about 0.5m deaths a year in the UK. And if it got as bad as ~1m UK deaths from this virus, I should imagine that *very many* of those 0.5m "regular" deaths would now be "from coronavirus" (as a disproportionate number of virus deaths will be those with pre-existing conditions). So it may be that we reach about a 2x normal annual death rate. Which is an exceptional situation, dreadful for those affected, but not the apocalypse.
    Really? As a broad rule of thumb there aren't many facts of life you can multiply by 2 and not really notice. The rate of income tax? number of cars on the road? standard working day? number of patients per hospital/gp surgery?
    Well you would probably notice it .However closing all borders , locking yourself up with tonnes of hand sanitizer and obsessing about it all day and night and getting frantic because a rugby game is going ahead this weekend is certainly noticing it from the other side!
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,491

    matt said:

    Charles said:

    I have a personal problem with the Covid-19 outbreak. I'm due to be hosting leaving drinks in late April. Do I book them or don't I?

    Postpone. People will understand.
    That’s where I’m heading, though in practice it would mean cancellation given the way things move on. It’s a shame because it would have been nice to mark 28 years with the firm, but I have to recognise reality.
    The waters close quickly. Hopefully, you’ve left a material legacy, be it pushing forward good people or making a difference. Most Partners don’t.
    I’ve told my team that if I’ve done my job properly they’ll all have forgotten me in six weeks. I’m content I’m leaving a good team. Whether I’ve made a difference is for others to judge.
    I normally forget you within six days when you're on leave from here.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,491
    Cyclefree said:

    geoffw said:

    Charles said:

    Chameleon said:

    Charles said:

    eadric said:

    https://twitter.com/AlexInAir/status/1235967126613168135?s=20

    BA have suspended half their LHR SIN 380 flights


    We're about two weeks away from the total suspension of almost all international air traffic.
    Less than that
    Gosh, if I had holiday trips booked to say Rome, Como, and Spain in late March and April I'd be really quite annoyed at this turn in events...
    I have been told - but I cannot verify although I trust the source - that closing all international borders is being discussed at an intergovernmental level
    The stable door manoeuvre.
    And how would Britain import the food it needs if that happened?
    It would be for people not essential goods and medicine (and those handling them would need to be all suited and booted etc)
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    matt said:

    Charles said:

    I have a personal problem with the Covid-19 outbreak. I'm due to be hosting leaving drinks in late April. Do I book them or don't I?

    Postpone. People will understand.
    That’s where I’m heading, though in practice it would mean cancellation given the way things move on. It’s a shame because it would have been nice to mark 28 years with the firm, but I have to recognise reality.
    The waters close quickly. Hopefully, you’ve left a material legacy, be it pushing forward good people or making a difference. Most Partners don’t.
    I’ve told my team that if I’ve done my job properly they’ll all have forgotten me in six weeks. I’m content I’m leaving a good team. Whether I’ve made a difference is for others to judge.
    I normally forget you within six days when you're on leave from here.
    Then I’ve done my job here exceptionally well.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695
    edited March 2020
    The impact of this on the economy is going to be far wider and deeper than we can currently imagine imo. Anywhere you look is going to be be seriously adversely impacted. Just one minor example:

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2020/mar/06/uk-universities-face-cash-black-hole-coronavirus-crisis
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    Musk is correct - panic is dumb
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,491
    For hardcore fans of The Office:


  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    eadric said:

    Charles said:

    Chameleon said:

    Charles said:

    eadric said:

    https://twitter.com/AlexInAir/status/1235967126613168135?s=20

    BA have suspended half their LHR SIN 380 flights


    We're about two weeks away from the total suspension of almost all international air traffic.
    Less than that
    Gosh, if I had holiday trips booked to say Rome, Como, and Spain in late March and April I'd be really quite annoyed at this turn in events...
    I have been told - but I cannot verify although I trust the source - that closing all international borders is being discussed at an intergovernmental level
    It's the only way to fix this thing. Lock down, isolate, quarantine. Heal the sick. Smooth the pandemic curve then develop the vaccine.
    Absolute nonsense. Countries vary in size from about 1000 people to 1.4 bn people. How can country level possibly be the right unit to lock down when it is so randomly varied?
    That's the way the world works. What do you suggest as an alternative?
    Dont do it?
    And do what then? Lock down within countries and then allow international travel to then undo the good work?

    This is a new paradigm. We didnt have movement between borders like this in 1918. We will need new solutions.
    Just let it take its course with some sensible not over the top sanctions.Otherwise society will break down and we will still be fafhing around trying to stop it when its not that much dangerous than normal flu
    Very sorry but your last statement is absolute nonsense which negates the rest of your post.
    ok Mr Pompous man
    But he's absolutely right. This bug has a mortality rate between 0.6 and 4.9% compared to "normal flu" - around 0.1%

    The best guess at the moment is maybe 2%.

    20 times more deadly.

    On top of that, this bug is more more contagious than normal flu, it is already mutating into more lethal forms, it is new so no one has any immunity, and we are a year from a vaccine, at least.

    Apart from that, ace comment
    Best guess - Chris Witty - is less than 1%
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    eadric said:

    geoffw said:

    Charles said:

    Chameleon said:

    Charles said:

    eadric said:

    https://twitter.com/AlexInAir/status/1235967126613168135?s=20

    BA have suspended half their LHR SIN 380 flights


    We're about two weeks away from the total suspension of almost all international air traffic.
    Less than that
    Gosh, if I had holiday trips booked to say Rome, Como, and Spain in late March and April I'd be really quite annoyed at this turn in events...
    I have been told - but I cannot verify although I trust the source - that closing all international borders is being discussed at an intergovernmental level
    The stable door manoeuvre.
    ONE horse has bolted. That's not good. But at least half a dozen remain in their stables, eyeing the open door.

    So lock the door.
    This is the saying I always get wrong:

    "Bolting the stable door after the horse has, er... bolted?"
    Closing / bolted
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,230

    The impact of this on the economy is going to be far wider and deeper than we can currently imagine imo. Anywhere you look is going to be be seriously adversely impacted. Just one minor example:

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2020/mar/06/uk-universities-face-cash-black-hole-coronavirus-crisis

    The Korean experience:
    https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Coronavirus/From-K-pop-to-cars-coronavirus-hits-South-Korea-business
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,816

    Cyclefree said:

    geoffw said:

    Charles said:

    Chameleon said:

    Charles said:

    eadric said:

    https://twitter.com/AlexInAir/status/1235967126613168135?s=20

    BA have suspended half their LHR SIN 380 flights


    We're about two weeks away from the total suspension of almost all international air traffic.
    Less than that
    Gosh, if I had holiday trips booked to say Rome, Como, and Spain in late March and April I'd be really quite annoyed at this turn in events...
    I have been told - but I cannot verify although I trust the source - that closing all international borders is being discussed at an intergovernmental level
    The stable door manoeuvre.
    And how would Britain import the food it needs if that happened?
    It would be for people not essential goods and medicine (and those handling them would need to be all suited and booted etc)
    Jesus!
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    geoffw said:

    Cyclefree said:

    geoffw said:

    Charles said:

    Chameleon said:

    Charles said:

    eadric said:

    https://twitter.com/AlexInAir/status/1235967126613168135?s=20

    BA have suspended half their LHR SIN 380 flights


    We're about two weeks away from the total suspension of almost all international air traffic.
    Less than that
    Gosh, if I had holiday trips booked to say Rome, Como, and Spain in late March and April I'd be really quite annoyed at this turn in events...
    I have been told - but I cannot verify although I trust the source - that closing all international borders is being discussed at an intergovernmental level
    The stable door manoeuvre.
    And how would Britain import the food it needs if that happened?
    Indeed. My comment was meant to be ironic.
    My source was talking about the US
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695

    matt said:

    Charles said:

    I have a personal problem with the Covid-19 outbreak. I'm due to be hosting leaving drinks in late April. Do I book them or don't I?

    Postpone. People will understand.
    That’s where I’m heading, though in practice it would mean cancellation given the way things move on. It’s a shame because it would have been nice to mark 28 years with the firm, but I have to recognise reality.
    The waters close quickly. Hopefully, you’ve left a material legacy, be it pushing forward good people or making a difference. Most Partners don’t.
    I’ve told my team that if I’ve done my job properly they’ll all have forgotten me in six weeks. I’m content I’m leaving a good team. Whether I’ve made a difference is for others to judge.
    I normally forget you within six days when you're on leave from here.
    Then I’ve done my job here exceptionally well.
    I'm sorry for you if you don't get to mark 28 years service but these things happen.

    I left my employer two years ago after 36 years but because of massive restructuring most of the people I'd worked with over many years had already gone and my last year was working remotely with a new team of contractors who hardly knew me. So out with a whimper, sadly.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,841

    The impact of this on the economy is going to be far wider and deeper than we can currently imagine imo. Anywhere you look is going to be be seriously adversely impacted. Just one minor example:

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2020/mar/06/uk-universities-face-cash-black-hole-coronavirus-crisis

    Agreed, almost certainly a deep recession and could finally bring the depression that QE has so far delayed.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited March 2020
    GIN1138 said:

    Foxy said:

    GIN1138 said:

    How come we've not heard anything about anti-virals so far? During the Swine Flu pandemic the whole knew about "Tamiflu" but this time, so far, we've heard nothing about trials etc?

    There are some trials, particularly remdesivir and some HIV drugs that work on protease.
    Interesting.
    Amazingly I am watching BBC4 TOTP89 as I read this, and Morrissey is singing ‘interesting drug’

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    alterego said:

    Foxy said:

    Flanner said:

    The long term damage to brand China is going to be huge over this.

    Do you think? I don't think they have a brand really. Chinese products are cheaper, or better value let's say. That's it. That's no offence to China - I fully admire them for their achievement of economic dominance, but I don't see their prospect of future business being damaged providing their products remain cheaper than the competition.
    On the contrary.

    In my industry (clothing) China has an extraordinarily strong brand - among professional clothing buyers. A country of limited creative or stylistic skills (which don't matter, since most designing's done in the West), but a formidably reliable network of businesses supplying raw materials, key components (like buttons and zips) and on-time, high-quality, garment assembly.

    If anything, I'd say that brand has been strengthened by the country's robust response to the crisis. Everyone knows the place is run by unaccountable and out of touch politicians, so no-one's surprised the issue was badly fudged in the early days.

    But the contrast between the ruthlessness of China's containment programme since late Jan and the self-deceiving, lackadaisical, behaviour of the White House and the cockups in Italy, Japan and Korea, is stark.

    In Jan, I'd say there was a case for repatriating production (though it's currently impossible). With the haplessness four Western countries are showing (and that Johnson is still showing on most other issues), China's reputation for Teutonic reliability once it knows what the problem is has probably improved over the past month.
    I don't think Korea is doing badly. These are their infection and mortality figures btw.

    https://twitter.com/YangeHan/status/1235866453028438019?s=09
    I've ticked most risk boxes up to now but this has cheered me up as I'm not young or religious or female
    Being a young female religious Korean does increase risk of infection, but they have a good survival is my interpretation.

    Mind you Korean older patients do seem to better than the Chinese figures.

    I would be interested in a similar age breakdown for Italy.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,816

    matt said:

    Charles said:

    I have a personal problem with the Covid-19 outbreak. I'm due to be hosting leaving drinks in late April. Do I book them or don't I?

    Postpone. People will understand.
    That’s where I’m heading, though in practice it would mean cancellation given the way things move on. It’s a shame because it would have been nice to mark 28 years with the firm, but I have to recognise reality.
    The waters close quickly. Hopefully, you’ve left a material legacy, be it pushing forward good people or making a difference. Most Partners don’t.
    I’ve told my team that if I’ve done my job properly they’ll all have forgotten me in six weeks. I’m content I’m leaving a good team. Whether I’ve made a difference is for others to judge.
    I normally forget you within six days when you're on leave from here.
    Then I’ve done my job here exceptionally well.
    I'm sorry for you if you don't get to mark 28 years service but these things happen.

    I left my employer two years ago after 36 years but because of massive restructuring most of the people I'd worked with over many years had already gone and my last year was working remotely with a new team of contractors who hardly knew me. So out with a whimper, sadly.
    Always a shame when you can't have a massive pub crawl when leaving a job imho
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,720
    Charles said:

    geoffw said:

    Cyclefree said:

    geoffw said:

    Charles said:

    Chameleon said:

    Charles said:

    eadric said:

    https://twitter.com/AlexInAir/status/1235967126613168135?s=20

    BA have suspended half their LHR SIN 380 flights


    We're about two weeks away from the total suspension of almost all international air traffic.
    Less than that
    Gosh, if I had holiday trips booked to say Rome, Como, and Spain in late March and April I'd be really quite annoyed at this turn in events...
    I have been told - but I cannot verify although I trust the source - that closing all international borders is being discussed at an intergovernmental level
    The stable door manoeuvre.
    And how would Britain import the food it needs if that happened?
    Indeed. My comment was meant to be ironic.
    My source was talking about the US
    How is "closing all international borders" just about the USA? Oh, sorry I forgot it's the global hegemon.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    edited March 2020
    Monkeys said:

    eadric said:
    His lungs are already iron, much like his hair is purest silicon.
    Tesla are in some trouble. I won't go into this in detail here but there has been a lot of shorting of Tesla stock.

    What they have going for them is an alleged 4 year headstart on EV's but that's about where the good news ends right now.

    Others may disagree but at $700 a share, down from $925 peak they are still way over-priced in my opinion.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,622
    eadric said:

    geoffw said:

    Saw a couple wearing facemasks in Waitrose this afternoon. Could have been Chinese, oriental anyway. No one paid them any attention - this is Edinburgh, Morningside. Then on my way home saw another, jogging. I hope it doesn't become the new normal. My normalcy bias showing there.

    The only reason it won't become the new normal is because all the masks have already sold out (to people like me)
    So how many face masks, latex gloves and bottles of sanitizer do you have ?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Nigelb said:

    Charles said:

    I have a personal problem with the Covid-19 outbreak. I'm due to be hosting leaving drinks in late April. Do I book them or don't I?

    Postpone. People will understand.
    That’s where I’m heading, though in practice it would mean cancellation given the way things move on. It’s a shame because it would have been nice to mark 28 years with the firm, but I have to recognise reality.
    We could always take you on a massive piss-up later in the year, Alastair?

    Pb looks out for its own.
    Count me in.
    If there is a post viral PB meet-up, I’d make the effort too.
    PB meet-up: 28 Days Later.
    28 days later than when?
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=c7ynwAgQlDQ
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,218

    rpjs said:

    nunu2 said:

    Alistair said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    How does everyone make the Dem/GOP horse race ?

    Interesting to note that Joe Biden received more votes in Virginia than Clinton and Sanders did combined in 2016.

    He managed the trick in Minnesota also.

    Whilst those states are expected to stay blue I wonder if he can rack up big numbers in PA, WI, FL ?
    Biden was +5.5 on the RCP spread vs Trump and that was coming off a poor cycle for him.
    The 2.58 for him to get the presidency could be massive.

    This is the bible: https://morningconsult.com/tracking-trump-2/

    Forget hypotheticals. The question is "how popular is Trump in a given state".

    And right now, Florida and Pennsylvania look pretty good for him, while Michigan and Wisconsin look bloody awful.
    There are some real wildcards in there. Alaska for instance.
    If he wins Florida and Pennsylvania he will win. Idk how exactly he will get to 270 but if he gets those two it suggests close results are mainly going his way
    Assuming the Dems hold all the states they won in 2016 (a good bet I think), then if Trump loses MI and WI, then the Dems just have to turn Florida or North Carolina or Pennsylvania. Personally I think the Dems will get back PA, and I think NC should be pretty easy for them - it's the new Virginia: a state that's turning blue due to an influx of lefter-leaning voters attracted by tech jobs.
    They also have a good shot at flipping AZ which is tuning increasing blue. Plus an outside chance in GA.
    I'd be very surprised if GA flipped - IA is much more likely, as they've been hammered by the Trump trade wars.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,816

    matt said:

    Charles said:

    I have a personal problem with the Covid-19 outbreak. I'm due to be hosting leaving drinks in late April. Do I book them or don't I?

    Postpone. People will understand.
    That’s where I’m heading, though in practice it would mean cancellation given the way things move on. It’s a shame because it would have been nice to mark 28 years with the firm, but I have to recognise reality.
    The waters close quickly. Hopefully, you’ve left a material legacy, be it pushing forward good people or making a difference. Most Partners don’t.
    I’ve told my team that if I’ve done my job properly they’ll all have forgotten me in six weeks. I’m content I’m leaving a good team. Whether I’ve made a difference is for others to judge.
    I normally forget you within six days when you're on leave from here.
    Then I’ve done my job here exceptionally well.
    I'm sorry for you if you don't get to mark 28 years service but these things happen.

    I left my employer two years ago after 36 years but because of massive restructuring most of the people I'd worked with over many years had already gone and my last year was working remotely with a new team of contractors who hardly knew me. So out with a whimper, sadly.
    Of course in plague hit Britain you cannot have a golden handshake now (far too dirty) . Maybe a golden elbow weird touch instead
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    geoffw said:

    Charles said:

    geoffw said:

    Cyclefree said:

    geoffw said:

    Charles said:

    Chameleon said:

    Charles said:

    eadric said:

    https://twitter.com/AlexInAir/status/1235967126613168135?s=20

    BA have suspended half their LHR SIN 380 flights


    We're about two weeks away from the total suspension of almost all international air traffic.
    Less than that
    Gosh, if I had holiday trips booked to say Rome, Como, and Spain in late March and April I'd be really quite annoyed at this turn in events...
    I have been told - but I cannot verify although I trust the source - that closing all international borders is being discussed at an intergovernmental level
    The stable door manoeuvre.
    And how would Britain import the food it needs if that happened?
    Indeed. My comment was meant to be ironic.
    My source was talking about the US
    How is "closing all international borders" just about the USA? Oh, sorry I forgot it's the global hegemon.
    And the discussion was US centric.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,622
    rcs1000 said:

    rpjs said:

    nunu2 said:

    Alistair said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    How does everyone make the Dem/GOP horse race ?

    Interesting to note that Joe Biden received more votes in Virginia than Clinton and Sanders did combined in 2016.

    He managed the trick in Minnesota also.

    Whilst those states are expected to stay blue I wonder if he can rack up big numbers in PA, WI, FL ?
    Biden was +5.5 on the RCP spread vs Trump and that was coming off a poor cycle for him.
    The 2.58 for him to get the presidency could be massive.

    This is the bible: https://morningconsult.com/tracking-trump-2/

    Forget hypotheticals. The question is "how popular is Trump in a given state".

    And right now, Florida and Pennsylvania look pretty good for him, while Michigan and Wisconsin look bloody awful.
    There are some real wildcards in there. Alaska for instance.
    If he wins Florida and Pennsylvania he will win. Idk how exactly he will get to 270 but if he gets those two it suggests close results are mainly going his way
    Assuming the Dems hold all the states they won in 2016 (a good bet I think), then if Trump loses MI and WI, then the Dems just have to turn Florida or North Carolina or Pennsylvania. Personally I think the Dems will get back PA, and I think NC should be pretty easy for them - it's the new Virginia: a state that's turning blue due to an influx of lefter-leaning voters attracted by tech jobs.
    They also have a good shot at flipping AZ which is tuning increasing blue. Plus an outside chance in GA.
    I'd be very surprised if GA flipped - IA is much more likely, as they've been hammered by the Trump trade wars.
    Is there any reason why OH and PA are doing better then IA, WI and MI ?
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,720

    Monkeys said:

    eadric said:
    His lungs are already iron, much like his hair is purest silicon.
    Tesla are in some trouble. I won't go into this in detail here but there has been a lot of shorting of Tesla stock.

    What they have going for them is an alleged 4 year headstart on EV's but that's about where the good news ends right now.

    Others may disagree but at $700 a share, down from $925 peak they are still way over-priced in my opinion.
    Is it the batteries, and GM competition?
  • My daughter in law and her mother were leaving Vancouver on Monday for a road trip to Australia then a cruise around Australia and New Zealand and they have cancelled the trip today

    The cruise line offered a full credit to be used at some later date on any of their cruises, but you do wonder how much of the cruise industry will be left standing after all of this

    I am in the process of cancelling my rail and air porter charges for our Vancouver trip in May, though I have not made a final decision on the flights. Air porter told me they have been deluged with cancellations as so many are cancelling flights

    The damage this is doing to economies is frightening, even more than the virus
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688

    eadric said:

    geoffw said:

    Saw a couple wearing facemasks in Waitrose this afternoon. Could have been Chinese, oriental anyway. No one paid them any attention - this is Edinburgh, Morningside. Then on my way home saw another, jogging. I hope it doesn't become the new normal. My normalcy bias showing there.

    The only reason it won't become the new normal is because all the masks have already sold out (to people like me)
    So how many face masks, latex gloves and bottles of sanitizer do you have ?
    1 mask with 4 washable filters
    12 pairs of gloves
    4 bottles of hand sanitizer
    2 packets of antibacterial wipes

    Bought on 25th January
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,622
    Foxy said:

    alterego said:

    Foxy said:

    Flanner said:

    The long term damage to brand China is going to be huge over this.

    Do you think? I don't think they have a brand really. Chinese products are cheaper, or better value let's say. That's it. That's no offence to China - I fully admire them for their achievement of economic dominance, but I don't see their prospect of future business being damaged providing their products remain cheaper than the competition.
    On the contrary.

    In my industry (clothing) China has an extraordinarily strong brand - among professional clothing buyers. A country of limited creative or stylistic skills (which don't matter, since most designing's done in the West), but a formidably reliable network of businesses supplying raw materials, key components (like buttons and zips) and on-time, high-quality, garment assembly.

    If anything, I'd say that brand has been strengthened by the country's robust response to the crisis. Everyone knows the place is run by unaccountable and out of touch politicians, so no-one's surprised the issue was badly fudged in the early days.

    But the contrast between the ruthlessness of China's containment programme since late Jan and the self-deceiving, lackadaisical, behaviour of the White House and the cockups in Italy, Japan and Korea, is stark.

    In Jan, I'd say there was a case for repatriating production (though it's currently impossible). With the haplessness four Western countries are showing (and that Johnson is still showing on most other issues), China's reputation for Teutonic reliability once it knows what the problem is has probably improved over the past month.
    I don't think Korea is doing badly. These are their infection and mortality figures btw.

    https://twitter.com/YangeHan/status/1235866453028438019?s=09
    I've ticked most risk boxes up to now but this has cheered me up as I'm not young or religious or female
    Being a young female religious Korean does increase risk of infection, but they have a good survival is my interpretation.

    Mind you Korean older patients do seem to better than the Chinese figures.

    I would be interested in a similar age breakdown for Italy.
    Is there any data on smokers vs non-smokers or whether living in a highly polluted area has an effect ?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,491

    Cyclefree said:

    geoffw said:

    Charles said:

    Chameleon said:

    Charles said:

    eadric said:

    https://twitter.com/AlexInAir/status/1235967126613168135?s=20

    BA have suspended half their LHR SIN 380 flights


    We're about two weeks away from the total suspension of almost all international air traffic.
    Less than that
    Gosh, if I had holiday trips booked to say Rome, Como, and Spain in late March and April I'd be really quite annoyed at this turn in events...
    I have been told - but I cannot verify although I trust the source - that closing all international borders is being discussed at an intergovernmental level
    The stable door manoeuvre.
    And how would Britain import the food it needs if that happened?
    It would be for people not essential goods and medicine (and those handling them would need to be all suited and booted etc)
    Jesus!
    And??

    We're an island. We have a great natural advantage in doing a sealed siege.

    Use it.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    geoffw said:

    Monkeys said:

    eadric said:
    His lungs are already iron, much like his hair is purest silicon.
    Tesla are in some trouble. I won't go into this in detail here but there has been a lot of shorting of Tesla stock.

    What they have going for them is an alleged 4 year headstart on EV's but that's about where the good news ends right now.

    Others may disagree but at $700 a share, down from $925 peak they are still way over-priced in my opinion.
    Is it the batteries, and GM competition?
    That's certainly one of the reasons yes.

    Throw in their Shanghai manufacturing base and the straight fact they've never made a profit, plus demand in January was way down on expectations. There are some people describing Tesla shares as little better than a Ponzi scheme.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,491

    matt said:

    Charles said:

    I have a personal problem with the Covid-19 outbreak. I'm due to be hosting leaving drinks in late April. Do I book them or don't I?

    Postpone. People will understand.
    That’s where I’m heading, though in practice it would mean cancellation given the way things move on. It’s a shame because it would have been nice to mark 28 years with the firm, but I have to recognise reality.
    The waters close quickly. Hopefully, you’ve left a material legacy, be it pushing forward good people or making a difference. Most Partners don’t.
    I’ve told my team that if I’ve done my job properly they’ll all have forgotten me in six weeks. I’m content I’m leaving a good team. Whether I’ve made a difference is for others to judge.
    I normally forget you within six days when you're on leave from here.
    Then I’ve done my job here exceptionally well.
    I'm sorry for you if you don't get to mark 28 years service but these things happen.

    I left my employer two years ago after 36 years but because of massive restructuring most of the people I'd worked with over many years had already gone and my last year was working remotely with a new team of contractors who hardly knew me. So out with a whimper, sadly.
    Of course in plague hit Britain you cannot have a golden handshake now (far too dirty) . Maybe a golden elbow weird touch instead
    I tried that with an Aussie today.

    He made it very clear he thought it was an overreaction and was a bit offended.

    Still didn't shake his hand though.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,816

    eadric said:

    geoffw said:

    Saw a couple wearing facemasks in Waitrose this afternoon. Could have been Chinese, oriental anyway. No one paid them any attention - this is Edinburgh, Morningside. Then on my way home saw another, jogging. I hope it doesn't become the new normal. My normalcy bias showing there.

    The only reason it won't become the new normal is because all the masks have already sold out (to people like me)
    So how many face masks, latex gloves and bottles of sanitizer do you have ?
    1 mask with 4 washable filters
    12 pairs of gloves
    4 bottles of hand sanitizer
    2 packets of antibacterial wipes

    Bought on 25th January
    and a Covid-19 in a pear tree!
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,449
    edited March 2020
    rcs1000 said:

    rpjs said:

    nunu2 said:

    Alistair said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    How does everyone make the Dem/GOP horse race ?

    Interesting to note that Joe Biden received more votes in Virginia than Clinton and Sanders did combined in 2016.

    He managed the trick in Minnesota also.

    Whilst those states are expected to stay blue I wonder if he can rack up big numbers in PA, WI, FL ?
    Biden was +5.5 on the RCP spread vs Trump and that was coming off a poor cycle for him.
    The 2.58 for him to get the presidency could be massive.

    This is the bible: https://morningconsult.com/tracking-trump-2/

    Forget hypotheticals. The question is "how popular is Trump in a given state".

    And right now, Florida and Pennsylvania look pretty good for him, while Michigan and Wisconsin look bloody awful.
    There are some real wildcards in there. Alaska for instance.
    If he wins Florida and Pennsylvania he will win. Idk how exactly he will get to 270 but if he gets those two it suggests close results are mainly going his way
    Assuming the Dems hold all the states they won in 2016 (a good bet I think), then if Trump loses MI and WI, then the Dems just have to turn Florida or North Carolina or Pennsylvania. Personally I think the Dems will get back PA, and I think NC should be pretty easy for them - it's the new Virginia: a state that's turning blue due to an influx of lefter-leaning voters attracted by tech jobs.
    They also have a good shot at flipping AZ which is tuning increasing blue. Plus an outside chance in GA.
    I'd be very surprised if GA flipped - IA is much more likely, as they've been hammered by the Trump trade wars.
    So would I - I reckon the Dems have maybe a 5-10% chance there. If Coronavirus has a worst-case impact in the US then it might just be in play. Trump won it by 5.1% in 2016.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    My brother is just about to complete a 6-week trip around New Zealand and Australia, which took in Hong Kong and Singapore. I think he reckons it was a good time to be away.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695
    Charles said:

    Nigelb said:

    Charles said:

    I have a personal problem with the Covid-19 outbreak. I'm due to be hosting leaving drinks in late April. Do I book them or don't I?

    Postpone. People will understand.
    That’s where I’m heading, though in practice it would mean cancellation given the way things move on. It’s a shame because it would have been nice to mark 28 years with the firm, but I have to recognise reality.
    We could always take you on a massive piss-up later in the year, Alastair?

    Pb looks out for its own.
    Count me in.
    If there is a post viral PB meet-up, I’d make the effort too.
    PB meet-up: 28 Days Later.
    28 days later than when?
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=c7ynwAgQlDQ
    Thanks - I have obviously been living in cultural self-isolation.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,230

    Monkeys said:

    eadric said:
    His lungs are already iron, much like his hair is purest silicon.
    Tesla are in some trouble. I won't go into this in detail here but there has been a lot of shorting of Tesla stock.

    What they have going for them is an alleged 4 year headstart on EV's but that's about where the good news ends right now.

    Others may disagree but at $700 a share, down from $925 peak they are still way over-priced in my opinion.
    There has always been a lot of shorting of Tesla stock, so what’s new ?

    I’d more more worried if I were a shareholder of a legacy automaker. Irrespective of the current valuation of the stock.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    edited March 2020
    God Almighty!

    Please can we talk about something else, even if briefly.

    Why Warren - despite being about the only person campaigning who knew how her sentences were going to end when she started them - ended up failing so miserably? For instance.

    Was she too sharp? Misogyny? Particular policies? Am curious.

  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,491

    matt said:

    Charles said:

    I have a personal problem with the Covid-19 outbreak. I'm due to be hosting leaving drinks in late April. Do I book them or don't I?

    Postpone. People will understand.
    That’s where I’m heading, though in practice it would mean cancellation given the way things move on. It’s a shame because it would have been nice to mark 28 years with the firm, but I have to recognise reality.
    The waters close quickly. Hopefully, you’ve left a material legacy, be it pushing forward good people or making a difference. Most Partners don’t.
    I’ve told my team that if I’ve done my job properly they’ll all have forgotten me in six weeks. I’m content I’m leaving a good team. Whether I’ve made a difference is for others to judge.
    I normally forget you within six days when you're on leave from here.
    Then I’ve done my job here exceptionally well.
    I'm sorry for you if you don't get to mark 28 years service but these things happen.

    I left my employer two years ago after 36 years but because of massive restructuring most of the people I'd worked with over many years had already gone and my last year was working remotely with a new team of contractors who hardly knew me. So out with a whimper, sadly.
    Sad truth: most people at work don't give a shit about you.

    A few do, and they will always be there for you (after you've gone) regardless of what leaving do you do or don't cut.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,622
    Bought some dried pasta this evening - not stockpiling but because I needed some anyway.

    Didn't want to look like a panic buyer so bought the 'Best' range at £1 each instead of the standard at 2 for £1.

    There was lots of both types in any case.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720

    My daughter in law and her mother were leaving Vancouver on Monday for a road trip to Australia then a cruise around Australia and New Zealand and they have cancelled the trip today

    The cruise line offered a full credit to be used at some later date on any of their cruises, but you do wonder how much of the cruise industry will be left standing after all of this

    I am in the process of cancelling my rail and air porter charges for our Vancouver trip in May, though I have not made a final decision on the flights. Air porter told me they have been deluged with cancellations as so many are cancelling flights

    The damage this is doing to economies is frightening, even more than the virus

    There will be a sharp economic rebound as the pandemic abated, and the surviving travel companies will fill the gaps quickly.

    Probably to below baseline, but a bit more thought about travel vs domestic vacations is probably no bad thing.
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,449
    Cyclefree said:

    God Almighty!

    Please can we talk about something else, even if briefly.

    Why Warren - despite being about the only person campaigning who knew how her sentences were going to end when she started them - ended up failing so miserably? For instance.

    Was she too sharp? Misogyny? Particular policies? Am curious.

    Sanders outflanked her on the left, and the field was so large that she kind of sank without trace.
  • My brother is just about to complete a 6-week trip around New Zealand and Australia, which took in Hong Kong and Singapore. I think he reckons it was a good time to be away.

    Have you seen my post at 9.23pm
  • stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,861

    Chameleon said:

    eadric said:

    geoffw said:

    Charles said:

    Chameleon said:

    Charles said:

    eadric said:

    https://twitter.com/AlexInAir/status/1235967126613168135?s=20

    BA have suspended half their LHR SIN 380 flights


    We're about two weeks away from the total suspension of almost all international air traffic.
    Less than that
    Gosh, if I had holiday trips booked to say Rome, Como, and Spain in late March and April I'd be really quite annoyed at this turn in events...
    I have been told - but I cannot verify although I trust the source - that closing all international borders is being discussed at an intergovernmental level
    The stable door manoeuvre.
    ONE horse has bolted. That's not good. But at least half a dozen remain in their stables, eyeing the open door.

    So lock the door.
    This is the saying I always get wrong:

    "Bolting the stable door after the horse has, er... bolted?"
    I presume that when you drop a carton of milk you let the rest leak out, instead of righting it and preventing any more leaking onto the floor?
    Whenever I drop a carton of milk it always lands butter side down :wink:
    No point crying over it.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,291
    Cyclefree said:

    God Almighty!

    Please can we talk about something else, even if briefly.



    Least we're not talking about Br*xit anymore? :D
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    The impact of this on the economy is going to be far wider and deeper than we can currently imagine imo. Anywhere you look is going to be be seriously adversely impacted. Just one minor example:

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2020/mar/06/uk-universities-face-cash-black-hole-coronavirus-crisis

    The most chilling part - Chinese students think they are safer from coronavirus in China than they are in the uk:

    Higson said the differing approaches to dealing with coronavirus had to be addressed by universities to make international students more comfortable. “As the official advice from China is to use face masks, the official British advice to focus on hygiene and frequent washing of hands is interpreted by some of our Chinese students as not being strong enough and creates concern with our Chinese students about the official UK response to Covid-19. In turn, this is resulting in some of our Chinese students now believing that it might be safer to return to China rather than staying in the UK,” she said.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,622
    Cyclefree said:

    God Almighty!

    Please can we talk about something else, even if briefly.

    Why Warren - despite being about the only person campaigning who knew how her sentences were going to end when she started them - ended up failing so miserably? For instance.

    Was she too sharp? Misogyny? Particular policies? Am curious.

    The after effects of the dreadful Hilary perhaps.

    Or maybe not extreme enough to appeal to the Sanders supporters but not mainstream enough to appeal to the establishment.
  • Foxy said:

    alterego said:

    Foxy said:

    Flanner said:

    The long term damage to brand China is going to be huge over this.

    Do you think? I don't think they have a brand really. Chinese products are cheaper, or better value let's say. That's it. That's no offence to China - I fully admire them for their achievement of economic dominance, but I don't see their prospect of future business being damaged providing their products remain cheaper than the competition.
    On the contrary.

    In my industry (clothing) China has an extraordinarily strong brand - among professional clothing buyers. A country of limited creative or stylistic skills (which don't matter, since most designing's done in the West), but a formidably reliable network of businesses supplying raw materials, key components (like buttons and zips) and on-time, high-quality, garment assembly.

    If anything, I'd say that brand has been strengthened by the country's robust response to the crisis. Everyone knows the place is run by unaccountable and out of touch politicians, so no-one's surprised the issue was badly fudged in the early days.

    But the contrast between the ruthlessness of China's containment programme since late Jan and the self-deceiving, lackadaisical, behaviour of the White House and the cockups in Italy, Japan and Korea, is stark.

    In Jan, I'd say there was a case for repatriating production (though it's currently impossible). With the haplessness four Western countries are showing (and that Johnson is still showing on most other issues), China's reputation for Teutonic reliability once it knows what the problem is has probably improved over the past month.
    I don't think Korea is doing badly. These are their infection and mortality figures btw.

    https://twitter.com/YangeHan/status/1235866453028438019?s=09
    I've ticked most risk boxes up to now but this has cheered me up as I'm not young or religious or female
    Being a young female religious Korean does increase risk of infection, but they have a good survival is my interpretation.

    Mind you Korean older patients do seem to better than the Chinese figures.

    I would be interested in a similar age breakdown for Italy.
    Is there any data on smokers vs non-smokers or whether living in a highly polluted area has an effect ?
    Sky said males are more at risk than female as are smokers, especially male smokers

    So pleased I stopped 16 years ago
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    My daughter in law and her mother were leaving Vancouver on Monday for a road trip to Australia then a cruise around Australia and New Zealand and they have cancelled the trip today

    The cruise line offered a full credit to be used at some later date on any of their cruises, but you do wonder how much of the cruise industry will be left standing after all of this

    I am in the process of cancelling my rail and air porter charges for our Vancouver trip in May, though I have not made a final decision on the flights. Air porter told me they have been deluged with cancellations as so many are cancelling flights

    The damage this is doing to economies is frightening, even more than the virus

    I’m more frightened of the virus to be honest
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    Okay Cyclefree if you want something different, have a read of this. I think he was probably in the wrong profession ...

    https://news.sky.com/story/teacher-banned-after-making-stupid-comment-about-vagina-and-firing-staples-at-pupils-11951084

  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,816

    Bought some dried pasta this evening - not stockpiling but because I needed some anyway.

    Didn't want to look like a panic buyer so bought the 'Best' range at £1 each instead of the standard at 2 for £1.

    There was lots of both types in any case.

    Only the British can worry they may look like a panic buyer by buying a bit of pasta - Love it!
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,622

    My daughter in law and her mother were leaving Vancouver on Monday for a road trip to Australia then a cruise around Australia and New Zealand and they have cancelled the trip today

    The cruise line offered a full credit to be used at some later date on any of their cruises, but you do wonder how much of the cruise industry will be left standing after all of this

    I am in the process of cancelling my rail and air porter charges for our Vancouver trip in May, though I have not made a final decision on the flights. Air porter told me they have been deluged with cancellations as so many are cancelling flights

    The damage this is doing to economies is frightening, even more than the virus

    The money will still be spent but in different ways.

    The UK tourism sector is likely to do well as are the supermarkets.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,816

    matt said:

    Charles said:

    I have a personal problem with the Covid-19 outbreak. I'm due to be hosting leaving drinks in late April. Do I book them or don't I?

    Postpone. People will understand.
    That’s where I’m heading, though in practice it would mean cancellation given the way things move on. It’s a shame because it would have been nice to mark 28 years with the firm, but I have to recognise reality.
    The waters close quickly. Hopefully, you’ve left a material legacy, be it pushing forward good people or making a difference. Most Partners don’t.
    I’ve told my team that if I’ve done my job properly they’ll all have forgotten me in six weeks. I’m content I’m leaving a good team. Whether I’ve made a difference is for others to judge.
    I normally forget you within six days when you're on leave from here.
    Then I’ve done my job here exceptionally well.
    I'm sorry for you if you don't get to mark 28 years service but these things happen.

    I left my employer two years ago after 36 years but because of massive restructuring most of the people I'd worked with over many years had already gone and my last year was working remotely with a new team of contractors who hardly knew me. So out with a whimper, sadly.
    Sad truth: most people at work don't give a shit about you.

    A few do, and they will always be there for you (after you've gone) regardless of what leaving do you do or don't cut.
    Brutal!
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052

    Monkeys said:

    eadric said:
    His lungs are already iron, much like his hair is purest silicon.
    Tesla are in some trouble. I won't go into this in detail here but there has been a lot of shorting of Tesla stock.

    What they have going for them is an alleged 4 year headstart on EV's but that's about where the good news ends right now.

    Others may disagree but at $700 a share, down from $925 peak they are still way over-priced in my opinion.
    I don’ts like um because dey Murican...
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,841
    Cyclefree said:

    God Almighty!

    Please can we talk about something else, even if briefly.

    Why Warren - despite being about the only person campaigning who knew how her sentences were going to end when she started them - ended up failing so miserably? For instance.

    Was she too sharp? Misogyny? Particular policies? Am curious.

    Outflanked by Sanders for leftists
    Buttiegieg over performing for educated vote
    Misogyny
    Another Clinton
    Would lose to Trump

    The last 3 are obviously linked, its hard to disentangle whether its misogyny that Democrats think men will perform better in the Presidential elections, or if its them being practical.
  • isam said:

    My daughter in law and her mother were leaving Vancouver on Monday for a road trip to Australia then a cruise around Australia and New Zealand and they have cancelled the trip today

    The cruise line offered a full credit to be used at some later date on any of their cruises, but you do wonder how much of the cruise industry will be left standing after all of this

    I am in the process of cancelling my rail and air porter charges for our Vancouver trip in May, though I have not made a final decision on the flights. Air porter told me they have been deluged with cancellations as so many are cancelling flights

    The damage this is doing to economies is frightening, even more than the virus

    I’m more frightened of the virus to be honest
    I should be as I am very high risk but I think the shock to the economies worldwide is going to be very disruptive and I expect recession across the globe is odds on
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789

    Cyclefree said:

    God Almighty!

    Please can we talk about something else, even if briefly.

    Why Warren - despite being about the only person campaigning who knew how her sentences were going to end when she started them - ended up failing so miserably? For instance.

    Was she too sharp? Misogyny? Particular policies? Am curious.

    Sanders outflanked her on the left, and the field was so large that she kind of sank without trace.
    “I have a plan for that” doesn’t sound so clever when any plan unwinds under detailed questioning? The spirits of her ancestors conspiring against her? She was taken apart by Buttigieg in debates and only managed to bestthe living Tussaud that is Bloomberg?

  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,816
    edited March 2020

    My daughter in law and her mother were leaving Vancouver on Monday for a road trip to Australia then a cruise around Australia and New Zealand and they have cancelled the trip today

    The cruise line offered a full credit to be used at some later date on any of their cruises, but you do wonder how much of the cruise industry will be left standing after all of this

    I am in the process of cancelling my rail and air porter charges for our Vancouver trip in May, though I have not made a final decision on the flights. Air porter told me they have been deluged with cancellations as so many are cancelling flights

    The damage this is doing to economies is frightening, even more than the virus

    The money will still be spent but in different ways.

    The UK tourism sector is likely to do well as are the supermarkets.
    Do those 1970s type bed and breakfast landladies still exist that give you stern ;looks and tell you to be in by 9pm or else?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695
    IshmaelZ said:

    The impact of this on the economy is going to be far wider and deeper than we can currently imagine imo. Anywhere you look is going to be be seriously adversely impacted. Just one minor example:

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2020/mar/06/uk-universities-face-cash-black-hole-coronavirus-crisis

    The most chilling part - Chinese students think they are safer from coronavirus in China than they are in the uk:

    Higson said the differing approaches to dealing with coronavirus had to be addressed by universities to make international students more comfortable. “As the official advice from China is to use face masks, the official British advice to focus on hygiene and frequent washing of hands is interpreted by some of our Chinese students as not being strong enough and creates concern with our Chinese students about the official UK response to Covid-19. In turn, this is resulting in some of our Chinese students now believing that it might be safer to return to China rather than staying in the UK,” she said.
    Isn't it just as simple as: in times of great uncertainty you head for home and family?
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,816

    Foxy said:

    alterego said:

    Foxy said:

    Flanner said:

    The long term damage to brand China is going to be huge over this.

    Do you think? I don't think they have a brand really. Chinese products are cheaper, or better value let's say. That's it. That's no offence to China - I fully admire them for their achievement of economic dominance, but I don't see their prospect of future business being damaged providing their products remain cheaper than the competition.
    On the contrary.

    In my industry (clothing) China has an extraordinarily strong brand - among professional clothing buyers. A country of limited creative or stylistic skills (which don't matter, since most designing's done in the West), but a formidably reliable network of businesses supplying raw materials, key components (like buttons and zips) and on-time, high-quality, garment assembly.

    If anything, I'd say that brand has been strengthened by the country's robust response to the crisis. Everyone knows the place is run by unaccountable and out of touch politicians, so no-one's surprised the issue was badly fudged in the early days.

    But the contrast between the ruthlessness of China's containment programme since late Jan and the self-deceiving, lackadaisical, behaviour of the White House and the cockups in Italy, Japan and Korea, is stark.

    In Jan, I'd say there was a case for repatriating production (though it's currently impossible). With the haplessness four Western countries are showing (and that Johnson is still showing on most other issues), China's reputation for Teutonic reliability once it knows what the problem is has probably improved over the past month.
    I don't think Korea is doing badly. These are their infection and mortality figures btw.

    https://twitter.com/YangeHan/status/1235866453028438019?s=09
    I've ticked most risk boxes up to now but this has cheered me up as I'm not young or religious or female
    Being a young female religious Korean does increase risk of infection, but they have a good survival is my interpretation.

    Mind you Korean older patients do seem to better than the Chinese figures.

    I would be interested in a similar age breakdown for Italy.
    Is there any data on smokers vs non-smokers or whether living in a highly polluted area has an effect ?
    Sky said males are more at risk than female as are smokers, especially male smokers

    So pleased I stopped 16 years ago
    and had a sex change
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Cyclefree said:

    God Almighty!

    Please can we talk about something else, even if briefly.

    Why Warren - despite being about the only person campaigning who knew how her sentences were going to end when she started them - ended up failing so miserably? For instance.

    Was she too sharp? Misogyny? Particular policies? Am curious.

    You’re putting that the wrong way round. The two rubbish candidates are the last two standing. You could more or less have stuck a pin in the rest and got a better candidate. That’s the mystery.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    Cyclefree said:

    God Almighty!

    Please can we talk about something else, even if briefly.

    Why Warren - despite being about the only person campaigning who knew how her sentences were going to end when she started them - ended up failing so miserably? For instance.

    Was she too sharp? Misogyny? Particular policies? Am curious.

    I liked her, she had a certain homespun earnestness that was rather appealing. I agree that the egos of the old men have squeezed out better candidates.

    She was too specific in her many plans though, too many hostages to fortune and targets to be attacked. She went too early with too much detail.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695

    isam said:

    My daughter in law and her mother were leaving Vancouver on Monday for a road trip to Australia then a cruise around Australia and New Zealand and they have cancelled the trip today

    The cruise line offered a full credit to be used at some later date on any of their cruises, but you do wonder how much of the cruise industry will be left standing after all of this

    I am in the process of cancelling my rail and air porter charges for our Vancouver trip in May, though I have not made a final decision on the flights. Air porter told me they have been deluged with cancellations as so many are cancelling flights

    The damage this is doing to economies is frightening, even more than the virus

    I’m more frightened of the virus to be honest
    I should be as I am very high risk but I think the shock to the economies worldwide is going to be very disruptive and I expect recession across the globe is odds on
    You're spot on there Big_G.

    @isam: it's the economy, stupid.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    Foxy said:

    Cyclefree said:

    God Almighty!

    Please can we talk about something else, even if briefly.

    Why Warren - despite being about the only person campaigning who knew how her sentences were going to end when she started them - ended up failing so miserably? For instance.

    Was she too sharp? Misogyny? Particular policies? Am curious.

    I liked her, she had a certain homespun earnestness that was rather appealing. I agree that the egos of the old men have squeezed out better candidates.

    She was too specific in her many plans though, too many hostages to fortune and targets to be attacked. She went too early with too much detail.
    And she couldn't raise money.
  • My daughter in law and her mother were leaving Vancouver on Monday for a road trip to Australia then a cruise around Australia and New Zealand and they have cancelled the trip today

    The cruise line offered a full credit to be used at some later date on any of their cruises, but you do wonder how much of the cruise industry will be left standing after all of this

    I am in the process of cancelling my rail and air porter charges for our Vancouver trip in May, though I have not made a final decision on the flights. Air porter told me they have been deluged with cancellations as so many are cancelling flights

    The damage this is doing to economies is frightening, even more than the virus

    The money will still be spent but in different ways.

    The UK tourism sector is likely to do well as are the supermarkets.
    I agree on staycations but the possible lost income and redundancies will not help the economy.

    I expect the Chancellor will cut taxes on tuesday.

    Any bets on 2p of standard rate tax
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,602
    Cyclefree said:

    God Almighty!

    Please can we talk about something else, even if briefly.

    Why Warren - despite being about the only person campaigning who knew how her sentences were going to end when she started them - ended up failing so miserably? For instance.

    Was she too sharp? Misogyny? Particular policies? Am curious.

    She was my preferred candidate to take on Trump. I can't explain why her campaign didn't make the impact it should have done.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,622

    My daughter in law and her mother were leaving Vancouver on Monday for a road trip to Australia then a cruise around Australia and New Zealand and they have cancelled the trip today

    The cruise line offered a full credit to be used at some later date on any of their cruises, but you do wonder how much of the cruise industry will be left standing after all of this

    I am in the process of cancelling my rail and air porter charges for our Vancouver trip in May, though I have not made a final decision on the flights. Air porter told me they have been deluged with cancellations as so many are cancelling flights

    The damage this is doing to economies is frightening, even more than the virus

    The money will still be spent but in different ways.

    The UK tourism sector is likely to do well as are the supermarkets.
    I agree on staycations but the possible lost income and redundancies will not help the economy.

    I expect the Chancellor will cut taxes on tuesday.

    Any bets on 2p of standard rate tax
    The wrong thing to do - there's no shortage of consumer spending currently.

    Direct support of strategic industries during the current situation would be a better idea.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695

    My daughter in law and her mother were leaving Vancouver on Monday for a road trip to Australia then a cruise around Australia and New Zealand and they have cancelled the trip today

    The cruise line offered a full credit to be used at some later date on any of their cruises, but you do wonder how much of the cruise industry will be left standing after all of this

    I am in the process of cancelling my rail and air porter charges for our Vancouver trip in May, though I have not made a final decision on the flights. Air porter told me they have been deluged with cancellations as so many are cancelling flights

    The damage this is doing to economies is frightening, even more than the virus

    The money will still be spent but in different ways.

    The UK tourism sector is likely to do well as are the supermarkets.
    It's the disruption though... So many small businesses are going to be hit.

    I expect the overall health impact of covid-19 to be small but noticeable; I expect the economic impact to be on the scale of a depression, taking many years to recover. I hope I'm wrong on the second prediction.
  • My daughter in law and her mother were leaving Vancouver on Monday for a road trip to Australia then a cruise around Australia and New Zealand and they have cancelled the trip today

    The cruise line offered a full credit to be used at some later date on any of their cruises, but you do wonder how much of the cruise industry will be left standing after all of this

    I am in the process of cancelling my rail and air porter charges for our Vancouver trip in May, though I have not made a final decision on the flights. Air porter told me they have been deluged with cancellations as so many are cancelling flights

    The damage this is doing to economies is frightening, even more than the virus

    The money will still be spent but in different ways.

    The UK tourism sector is likely to do well as are the supermarkets.
    I agree on staycations but the possible lost income and redundancies will not help the economy.

    I expect the Chancellor will cut taxes on tuesday.

    Any bets on 2p of standard rate tax
    The wrong thing to do - there's no shortage of consumer spending currently.

    Direct support of strategic industries during the current situation would be a better idea.
    Both to be honest
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695

    My daughter in law and her mother were leaving Vancouver on Monday for a road trip to Australia then a cruise around Australia and New Zealand and they have cancelled the trip today

    The cruise line offered a full credit to be used at some later date on any of their cruises, but you do wonder how much of the cruise industry will be left standing after all of this

    I am in the process of cancelling my rail and air porter charges for our Vancouver trip in May, though I have not made a final decision on the flights. Air porter told me they have been deluged with cancellations as so many are cancelling flights

    The damage this is doing to economies is frightening, even more than the virus

    The money will still be spent but in different ways.

    The UK tourism sector is likely to do well as are the supermarkets.
    I agree on staycations but the possible lost income and redundancies will not help the economy.

    I expect the Chancellor will cut taxes on tuesday.

    Any bets on 2p of standard rate tax
    The wrong thing to do - there's no shortage of consumer spending currently.

    Direct support of strategic industries during the current situation would be a better idea.
    Both to be honest
    2p off the standard rate will just fuel inflation. It's the supply side that is at issue.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,720
    IshmaelZ said:

    The impact of this on the economy is going to be far wider and deeper than we can currently imagine imo. Anywhere you look is going to be be seriously adversely impacted. Just one minor example:

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2020/mar/06/uk-universities-face-cash-black-hole-coronavirus-crisis

    The most chilling part - Chinese students think they are safer from coronavirus in China than they are in the uk:

    Higson said the differing approaches to dealing with coronavirus had to be addressed by universities to make international students more comfortable. “As the official advice from China is to use face masks, the official British advice to focus on hygiene and frequent washing of hands is interpreted by some of our Chinese students as not being strong enough and creates concern with our Chinese students about the official UK response to Covid-19. In turn, this is resulting in some of our Chinese students now believing that it might be safer to return to China rather than staying in the UK,” she said.
    When I went to China, visiting the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences some 33 years ago, the talk was of cigarette smoking and cancer. Our hosts did not buy the idea that they were connected despite our referring to the scientific evidence. "Yes, but here in China it is different".

  • isam said:

    My daughter in law and her mother were leaving Vancouver on Monday for a road trip to Australia then a cruise around Australia and New Zealand and they have cancelled the trip today

    The cruise line offered a full credit to be used at some later date on any of their cruises, but you do wonder how much of the cruise industry will be left standing after all of this

    I am in the process of cancelling my rail and air porter charges for our Vancouver trip in May, though I have not made a final decision on the flights. Air porter told me they have been deluged with cancellations as so many are cancelling flights

    The damage this is doing to economies is frightening, even more than the virus

    I’m more frightened of the virus to be honest
    I should be as I am very high risk but I think the shock to the economies worldwide is going to be very disruptive and I expect recession across the globe is odds on
    You're spot on there Big_G.

    @isam: it's the economy, stupid.
    Another point in all these cancellations is that many will take the hit as insurance will not cover you deciding to cancel unless the FCO advises.

    The choice is lose a modest sum or put yourself at risk , not only of the virus, but being quarantined either here on your return or worse abroad
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720

    My daughter in law and her mother were leaving Vancouver on Monday for a road trip to Australia then a cruise around Australia and New Zealand and they have cancelled the trip today

    The cruise line offered a full credit to be used at some later date on any of their cruises, but you do wonder how much of the cruise industry will be left standing after all of this

    I am in the process of cancelling my rail and air porter charges for our Vancouver trip in May, though I have not made a final decision on the flights. Air porter told me they have been deluged with cancellations as so many are cancelling flights

    The damage this is doing to economies is frightening, even more than the virus

    The money will still be spent but in different ways.

    The UK tourism sector is likely to do well as are the supermarkets.
    I agree on staycations but the possible lost income and redundancies will not help the economy.

    I expect the Chancellor will cut taxes on tuesday.

    Any bets on 2p of standard rate tax
    The wrong thing to do - there's no shortage of consumer spending currently.

    Direct support of strategic industries during the current situation would be a better idea.
    There is going to be a sharp drop in government revenues from this, so little space for tax cuts.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,622

    Cyclefree said:

    God Almighty!

    Please can we talk about something else, even if briefly.

    Why Warren - despite being about the only person campaigning who knew how her sentences were going to end when she started them - ended up failing so miserably? For instance.

    Was she too sharp? Misogyny? Particular policies? Am curious.

    You’re putting that the wrong way round. The two rubbish candidates are the last two standing. You could more or less have stuck a pin in the rest and got a better candidate. That’s the mystery.
    One trend which I'm curious about is how Presidential candidates are increasingly dominated by Senators.
This discussion has been closed.