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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The Leave seat with a miniscule LAB majority that didn’t fall

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  • Options
    Mr. JohnL, I own a baseball bat.

    Oddly, it was a Christmas or birthday present many years ago.
  • Options
    mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    Barnesian said:

    IanB2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Hopefully Bedford gets left out of the new funding model being put together by the treasury.

    It's going to be interesting to see how Labour react to money being diverted to their former heartlands and the expense of the their new inner city ones. Do they support it as a necessary measure to fix inequality or they stand up for their new middle class voters?

    The likely rebalancing away from London is ironic with the PM a former mayor of the capital.
    I think the more ignorant the electorate was of Johnson's character and track record, the better the Tories did.
    That was plugged into your “model”, I take it.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 69,033

    Mr. JohnL, I own a baseball bat.

    Oddly, it was a Christmas or birthday present many years ago.

    So it was a free hit for you?

    I’ll get my coat.

    Have a good morning.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 94,460
    Barnesian said:

    kle4 said:

    Barnesian said:

    IanB2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Hopefully Bedford gets left out of the new funding model being put together by the treasury.

    It's going to be interesting to see how Labour react to money being diverted to their former heartlands and the expense of the their new inner city ones. Do they support it as a necessary measure to fix inequality or they stand up for their new middle class voters?

    The likely rebalancing away from London is ironic with the PM a former mayor of the capital.
    I think the more ignorant the electorate was of Johnson's character and track record, the better the Tories did.
    How ignorant could people possibly be, we heard little else from his opponents, for good reason.
    We heard very little about his track record as Mayor (except what he said), as Foreign Secretary, being fired for lying as a journalist etc and it wouldn't cut through anyway.

    To your average northern working class bloke, he was good ol' Boris, getting Brexit sorted, offering goodies and making them smile.
    Well it was up the his opponents to counter that then.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 51,737
    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    Alistair said:

    https://twitter.com/TomTugendhat/status/1210239550695579650?s=19

    Some kind of Union of European nations you say?

    Could be. But that's not the only way to do so as others have noted. There are great benefits to be had in the european dream, but people acting as though it's an inevitability or treating it as the only possible solution to any problem did a lot of harm for its cause, as it meant either the positives were not properly sold to people, or were oversold.
    No matter what the problem, the solution is always "More Europe". How could that possibly go wrong?
    Your question may be ironic but I do suspect the fiddling around unnecessarily on that has been a major factor. When it is the answer to every problem it means its accepted or rejected as a creed, rather than actually considered if appropriate, meaning overuse as a solution on issues it has not really helped means even when it would be a good solution some no longer listen.
    IMO "More Europe" is the heart of the problem. Everyone in the EU hierarchy knows they are working towards a single European State, and everything they do is designed to further that aim. The problem has always ben that that isn't what the various people of Europe actually want - hence the stealthy and incremental gain of power, and the insertion of the EU tentacles into areas that worked completely fine previously.

    As an area that was discussed extensively before, and I have some experience of, aviation safety, which worked fine under the old JAA rules where European countries all co-operated. Then EU decided to make this an EU competence and set up their own system, EASA, which kicked Switzerland and Norway - and now the UK - out, making them only associate members with no say in the rules. It's pretty much the textbook example of EU overreach, although I am sure there are many other examples in other areas.
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    YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    edited December 2019
    ydoethur said:



    What an utter fool. He should have remembered the first rule of law - ‘don’t say anything!’

    Is he fool? I think not.

    He seems to be very interested in branding himself as a celebrity, so he naturally takes the view that all publicity is good.

    The kimono is a masterly touch. It is David Bowie-like in its genius.
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    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,460

    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    Hopefully Bedford gets left out of the new funding model being put together by the treasury.

    It's going to be interesting to see how Labour react to money being diverted to their former heartlands and the expense of the their new inner city ones. Do they support it as a necessary measure to fix inequality or they stand up for their new middle class voters?

    y0u Tories are all heart
    Is this how Boris, ‘a one-nation Tory at heart’, will set about bringing the nation together?
    Boris has about as much chance of doing that as he does of replacing Jin in BTS based on looks and dancing ability.
  • Options
    Mr. Doethur, that's your first strike.
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    BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,156
    ydoethur said:

    Barnesian said:

    Toms said:

    Toms said:

    Toms said:

    Our "remain" Bedford household (thinking about the world outside little Britain) , acting on the basis that Brexit is self-harming and will leave permanent scars, took the best tactical advice and voted Labour in spite of our loathing for Corbyn.

    and you didn't think Corbyn was harmful? Amazing.
    I try to choose my words carefully.
    Key here is the phrase " permanent scars".
    So you are into homeopathy rather than surgery.. well its a view I suppose,.
    Theoretical physics.
    "permanent damage"might have been a better choice.
    This is a betting site: the odds of Corbyn getting a majority were negligible.
    Politics here is basically polarised with one lot undoing the other lot's work, with the LDs being accused of wishy-washyness and squeezed by the two extremes.
    Corbyn has pulled Johnson and the Tories over into centre-left territory with their Keynesian manifesto and focus on public services and infrastructure and lack of tax cuts.

    Apart from nationalisation of the railways, the Tory 2019 manifesto is quite similar to the Labour 2017 manifesto which was a Venezuelan communist disaster according to the Tories at the time.

    Corbyn, like Farage, has achieved a lot in setting the political agenda without achieving power.
    Really? I missed the bit where the Tories promised to abolish tuition fees, made an off the cuff commitment to wipe out student debt, said that they would bring all schools under direct state control and tax private schools out of business, bring in rent controls and licenses for private landlords, outlaw zero hours contracts, nationalise power, water and the postal service, and force companies to appoint employees to their boards.
    I was referring to the 2017 Labour manifesto. Labour made the mistake in 2019 in trying to outbid the Tories on their left wing manifesto and lost all credibility. They should have congratulated the Tories on adopting a Labour manifesto and said to the electorate "If you want a Labour manifesto actually delivered, for Christ's sake, vote Labour!".
  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 12,368
    On Bedford:
    1) Students. What is the age profile of Bedford? I'm guessing, but I suspect younger than average.
    2) It's not really typical of the sorts of seats with big Lab-Con swings. It's not exactly Barnsley East or Durham North West. It may have voted Leave, but it's not exactly a left-behind area. Which leads to the question: why did it vote Leave? To which I can only answer: outside of the big cities, most places did.
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 20,487
    edited December 2019
    RobC said:

    Canterbury is another seat that defied expectations. There I think Rosie Duffield benefited from the factor Mike talked about i.e. first time incumbents getting a bonus at the general election following the one when they were elected for the first time. Julian Brazier dismissed in 2017 was reactionary and indolent and voters have appreciated their new surprisingly empathetic and diligent MP.

    My relatives in Canterbury area salved their consciences with the idea that voting Duffield was not really voting Corbyn, whilst really prioritising remain.
  • Options
    BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,156
    RobD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Barnesian said:

    Toms said:

    Toms said:

    Toms said:

    Our "remain" Bedford household (thinking about the world outside little Britain) , acting on the basis that Brexit is self-harming and will leave permanent scars, took the best tactical advice and voted Labour in spite of our loathing for Corbyn.

    and you didn't think Corbyn was harmful? Amazing.
    I try to choose my words carefully.
    Key here is the phrase " permanent scars".
    So you are into homeopathy rather than surgery.. well its a view I suppose,.
    Theoretical physics.
    "permanent damage"might have been a better choice.
    This is a betting site: the odds of Corbyn getting a majority were negligible.
    Politics here is basically polarised with one lot undoing the other lot's work, with the LDs being accused of wishy-washyness and squeezed by the two extremes.
    Corbyn has pulled Johnson and the Tories over into centre-left territory with their Keynesian manifesto and focus on public services and infrastructure and lack of tax cuts.

    Apart from nationalisation of the railways, the Tory 2019 manifesto is quite similar to the Labour 2017 manifesto which was a Venezuelan communist disaster according to the Tories at the time.

    Corbyn, like Farage, has achieved a lot in setting the political agenda without achieving power.
    Really? I missed the bit where the Tories promised to abolish tuition fees, made an off the cuff commitment to wipe out student debt, said that they would bring all schools under direct state control and tax private schools out of business, bring in rent controls and licenses for private landlords, outlaw zero hours contracts, nationalise power, water and the postal service, and force companies to appoint employees to their boards.
    Yeah, it's nothing like Labour's 2017 manifesto...
    Dumping austerity. Borrowing trillions. Big increase in spending on public services. Investing in infrastructure.
  • Options
    squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,476
    edited December 2019
    Cookie said:

    On Bedford:
    1) Students. What is the age profile of Bedford? I'm guessing, but I suspect younger than average.
    2) It's not really typical of the sorts of seats with big Lab-Con swings. It's not exactly Barnsley East or Durham North West. It may have voted Leave, but it's not exactly a left-behind area. Which leads to the question: why did it vote Leave? To which I can only answer: outside of the big cities, most places did.

    Bedford is or was very Methodist
    Not sure if that makes any difference. OGH might know
  • Options
    BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,156
    ydoethur said:

    RobD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Barnesian said:

    Toms said:

    Toms said:

    Toms said:

    Our "remain" Bedford household (thinking about the world outside little Britain) , acting on the basis that Brexit is self-harming and will leave permanent scars, took the best tactical advice and voted Labour in spite of our loathing for Corbyn.

    and you didn't think Corbyn was harmful? Amazing.
    I try to choose my words carefully.
    Key here is the phrase " permanent scars".
    So you are into homeopathy rather than surgery.. well its a view I suppose,.
    Theoretical physics.
    "permanent damage"might have been a better choice.
    This is a betting site: the odds of Corbyn getting a majority were negligible.
    Politics here is basically polarised with one lot undoing the other lot's work, with the LDs being accused of wishy-washyness and squeezed by the two extremes.
    Corbyn has pulled Johnson and the Tories over into centre-left territory with their Keynesian manifesto and focus on public services and infrastructure and lack of tax cuts.

    Apart from nationalisation of the railways, the Tory 2019 manifesto is quite similar to the Labour 2017 manifesto which was a Venezuelan communist disaster according to the Tories at the time.

    Corbyn, like Farage, has achieved a lot in setting the political agenda without achieving power.
    Really? I missed the bit where the Tories promised to abolish tuition fees, made an off the cuff commitment to wipe out student debt, said that they would bring all schools under direct state control and tax private schools out of business, bring in rent controls and licenses for private landlords, outlaw zero hours contracts, nationalise power, water and the postal service, and force companies to appoint employees to their boards.
    Yeah, it's nothing like Labour's 2017 manifesto...
    There is one key similarity - increased borrowing to spend on bribing electors to vote for them again‘infrastructure.’ But it’s on nothing like the scale Labour proposed. Nor do their taxation or spending priorities match up.
    Compare the scale of the Tory spend and borrowing in their 2019 manifesto with that of Labour in their 2017 manifesto.
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 20,487
    Barnesian said:

    kle4 said:

    Barnesian said:

    IanB2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Hopefully Bedford gets left out of the new funding model being put together by the treasury.

    It's going to be interesting to see how Labour react to money being diverted to their former heartlands and the expense of the their new inner city ones. Do they support it as a necessary measure to fix inequality or they stand up for their new middle class voters?

    The likely rebalancing away from London is ironic with the PM a former mayor of the capital.
    I think the more ignorant the electorate was of Johnson's character and track record, the better the Tories did.
    How ignorant could people possibly be, we heard little else from his opponents, for good reason.
    We heard very little about his track record as Mayor (except what he said), as Foreign Secretary, being fired for lying as a journalist etc and it wouldn't cut through anyway.

    To your average northern working class bloke, he was good ol' Boris, getting Brexit sorted, offering goodies and making them smile.
    Yoou sound horribly patronising, there.

    Around here, it was more like "not voting for the undermining democracy, piss-it-all-away party". People here know about debt and how long it takes to escape from it.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 59,457
    Barnesian said:

    ydoethur said:

    Barnesian said:

    Toms said:

    Toms said:

    Toms said:

    Our "remain" Bedford household (thinking about the world outside little Britain) , acting on the basis that Brexit is self-harming and will leave permanent scars, took the best tactical advice and voted Labour in spite of our loathing for Corbyn.

    and you didn't think Corbyn was harmful? Amazing.
    I try to choose my words carefully.
    Key here is the phrase " permanent scars".
    So you are into homeopathy rather than surgery.. well its a view I suppose,.
    Theoretical physics.
    "permanent damage"might have been a better choice.
    This is a betting site: the odds of Corbyn getting a majority were negligible.
    Politics here is basically polarised with one lot undoing the other lot's work, with the LDs being accused of wishy-washyness and squeezed by the two extremes.
    Corbyn has pulled Johnson and the Tories over into centre-left territory with their Keynesian manifesto and focus on public services and infrastructure and lack of tax cuts.

    Apart from nationalisation of the railways, the Tory 2019 manifesto is quite similar to the Labour 2017 manifesto which was a Venezuelan communist disaster according to the Tories at the time.

    Corbyn, like Farage, has achieved a lot in setting the political agenda without achieving power.
    Really? I missed the bit where the Tories promised to abolish tuition fees, made an off the cuff commitment to wipe out student debt, said that they would bring all schools under direct state control and tax private schools out of business, bring in rent controls and licenses for private landlords, outlaw zero hours contracts, nationalise power, water and the postal service, and force companies to appoint employees to their boards.
    I was referring to the 2017 Labour manifesto. Labour made the mistake in 2019 in trying to outbid the Tories on their left wing manifesto and lost all credibility. They should have congratulated the Tories on adopting a Labour manifesto and said to the electorate "If you want a Labour manifesto actually delivered, for Christ's sake, vote Labour!".
    I think ydoethur accurately described Labour's 2017 manifesto!
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 59,457
    MattW said:

    Barnesian said:

    kle4 said:

    Barnesian said:

    IanB2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Hopefully Bedford gets left out of the new funding model being put together by the treasury.

    It's going to be interesting to see how Labour react to money being diverted to their former heartlands and the expense of the their new inner city ones. Do they support it as a necessary measure to fix inequality or they stand up for their new middle class voters?

    The likely rebalancing away from London is ironic with the PM a former mayor of the capital.
    I think the more ignorant the electorate was of Johnson's character and track record, the better the Tories did.
    How ignorant could people possibly be, we heard little else from his opponents, for good reason.
    We heard very little about his track record as Mayor (except what he said), as Foreign Secretary, being fired for lying as a journalist etc and it wouldn't cut through anyway.

    To your average northern working class bloke, he was good ol' Boris, getting Brexit sorted, offering goodies and making them smile.
    Yoou sound horribly patronising, there.

    Around here, it was more like "not voting for the undermining democracy, piss-it-all-away party". People here know about debt and how long it takes to escape from it.
    The voters were too stupid to understand who they were voting for, clearly.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 52,547

    isam said:

    I totally oppose foxhunting and all cruelty to animals.

    Maugham needs to be investigated for animal cruelty.

    There is something pretty weird about someone who boasts of smashing up a trapped animal, or any animal really, with a baseball bat. Self defence would be the only mitigation in my opinion
    Well, Liverpool appear to have handed out something of a beating to a group of foxes last night.
    That was frightening. Liverpool are just superb at the moment.

    Oh Root what have you done?
  • Options
    BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,156
    MattW said:

    Barnesian said:

    kle4 said:

    Barnesian said:

    IanB2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Hopefully Bedford gets left out of the new funding model being put together by the treasury.

    It's going to be interesting to see how Labour react to money being diverted to their former heartlands and the expense of the their new inner city ones. Do they support it as a necessary measure to fix inequality or they stand up for their new middle class voters?

    The likely rebalancing away from London is ironic with the PM a former mayor of the capital.
    I think the more ignorant the electorate was of Johnson's character and track record, the better the Tories did.
    How ignorant could people possibly be, we heard little else from his opponents, for good reason.
    We heard very little about his track record as Mayor (except what he said), as Foreign Secretary, being fired for lying as a journalist etc and it wouldn't cut through anyway.

    To your average northern working class bloke, he was good ol' Boris, getting Brexit sorted, offering goodies and making them smile.
    Yoou sound horribly patronising, there.

    Around here, it was more like "not voting for the undermining democracy, piss-it-all-away party". People here know about debt and how long it takes to escape from it.
    My father was an average northern working class bloke. So were my uncles. They all lived in Oldham. I knew them well. I can walk in their shoes. I sometimes do. It gives me insight.
  • Options
    Root!
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 52,547

    Root!

    This is an astonishing spell from Philander. 2 wickets, 7 overs 1 run. Just unplayable.
  • Options
    MaxPB said:

    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    Hopefully Bedford gets left out of the new funding model being put together by the treasury.

    It's going to be interesting to see how Labour react to money being diverted to their former heartlands and the expense of the their new inner city ones. Do they support it as a necessary measure to fix inequality or they stand up for their new middle class voters?

    y0u Tories are all heart
    Why reward those who refuse to vote for us?

    Governing for a minority is not sustainable.

  • Options
    BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,156
    RobD said:

    MattW said:

    Barnesian said:

    kle4 said:

    Barnesian said:

    IanB2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Hopefully Bedford gets left out of the new funding model being put together by the treasury.

    It's going to be interesting to see how Labour react to money being diverted to their former heartlands and the expense of the their new inner city ones. Do they support it as a necessary measure to fix inequality or they stand up for their new middle class voters?

    The likely rebalancing away from London is ironic with the PM a former mayor of the capital.
    I think the more ignorant the electorate was of Johnson's character and track record, the better the Tories did.
    How ignorant could people possibly be, we heard little else from his opponents, for good reason.
    We heard very little about his track record as Mayor (except what he said), as Foreign Secretary, being fired for lying as a journalist etc and it wouldn't cut through anyway.

    To your average northern working class bloke, he was good ol' Boris, getting Brexit sorted, offering goodies and making them smile.
    Yoou sound horribly patronising, there.

    Around here, it was more like "not voting for the undermining democracy, piss-it-all-away party". People here know about debt and how long it takes to escape from it.
    The voters were too stupid to understand who they were voting for, clearly.
    They aren't stupid - not at all. But they were seduced. You don't have to be stupid to be seduced.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 51,032
    Barnesian said:

    We heard very little about his track record as Mayor (except what he said), as Foreign Secretary, being fired for lying as a journalist etc and it wouldn't cut through anyway.

    To your average northern working class bloke, he was good ol' Boris, getting Brexit sorted, offering goodies and making them smile.

    You must be joking. Anybody who got a leaflet from the LibDems, Labour or Brexit Party heard nothing much more than them banging on about Boris's lack of trustworthiness.
  • Options
    BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,156

    Barnesian said:

    We heard very little about his track record as Mayor (except what he said), as Foreign Secretary, being fired for lying as a journalist etc and it wouldn't cut through anyway.

    To your average northern working class bloke, he was good ol' Boris, getting Brexit sorted, offering goodies and making them smile.

    You must be joking. Anybody who got a leaflet from the LibDems, Labour or Brexit Party heard nothing much more than them banging on about Boris's lack of trustworthiness.
    "They would say that, wouldn't they?"
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,681
    MaxPB said:

    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    Hopefully Bedford gets left out of the new funding model being put together by the treasury.

    It's going to be interesting to see how Labour react to money being diverted to their former heartlands and the expense of the their new inner city ones. Do they support it as a necessary measure to fix inequality or they stand up for their new middle class voters?

    y0u Tories are all heart
    Why reward those who refuse to vote for us?
    I f you don't know why I cannot help you, you have to give some credence to people having differing opinions and alienating them by punishing them seems pretty heartless and dumb to me.
    You have to take other people with you , not punish them.
  • Options
    Nigelb said:
    It’s a very oddly worded headline. UK economy narrowly avoids recession would have been just as accurate.
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 20,487
    edited December 2019
    Barnesian said:

    MattW said:

    Barnesian said:

    kle4 said:

    Barnesian said:

    IanB2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Hopefully Bedford gets left out of the new funding model being put together by the treasury.

    It's going to be interesting to see how Labour react to money being diverted to their former heartlands and the expense of the their new inner city ones. Do they support it as a necessary measure to fix inequality or they stand up for their new middle class voters?

    The likely rebalancing away from London is ironic with the PM a former mayor of the capital.
    I think the more ignorant the electorate was of Johnson's character and track record, the better the Tories did.
    How ignorant could people possibly be, we heard little else from his opponents, for good reason.
    We heard very little about his track record as Mayor (except what he said), as Foreign Secretary, being fired for lying as a journalist etc and it wouldn't cut through anyway.

    To your average northern working class bloke, he was good ol' Boris, getting Brexit sorted, offering goodies and making them smile.
    Yoou sound horribly patronising, there.

    Around here, it was more like "not voting for the undermining democracy, piss-it-all-away party". People here know about debt and how long it takes to escape from it.
    My father was an average northern working class bloke. So were my uncles. They all lived in Oldham. I knew them well. I can walk in their shoes. I sometimes do. It gives me insight.
    Not sure how helpful that would be. Obvs also a possible difference between the Oldhams and the Mansfields.

    I heard 3 comments going about my daily business:

    1 - We voted to leave - why have we not left?
    2 - Corbyn's stuff does not add up. I can't vote for that man.
    3 - And less so - about patriotism / armed forces.

    An interesting demograhix effect I have not hear discussed is the life expectancy of eg miners, with lung diseases etc and how that impacts on the electorate - if it does.

    I've also been doing a casual study as to how employment here has changed since mining, and it is actually quite marked.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,782
    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    Hopefully Bedford gets left out of the new funding model being put together by the treasury.

    It's going to be interesting to see how Labour react to money being diverted to their former heartlands and the expense of the their new inner city ones. Do they support it as a necessary measure to fix inequality or they stand up for their new middle class voters?

    y0u Tories are all heart
    Why reward those who refuse to vote for us?
    I f you don't know why I cannot help you, you have to give some credence to people having differing opinions and alienating them by punishing them seems pretty heartless and dumb to me.
    You have to take other people with you , not punish them.
    I was being facetious, btw. I think it's clear that the new spending settlement is going to favour places that have been forgotten in the last 20 years, which is a good thing. Gains in GDP aren't everything. The way I see it, it's better for someone earning £25k to see a 10% rise in living standards than someone on £50k to see the same, despite the latter having a larger positive effect on nominal GDP.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 52,547

    Nigelb said:
    It’s a very oddly worded headline. UK economy narrowly avoids recession would have been just as accurate.
    The price of the remainer Parliament continuing the uncertainty for an extra 9 months. Thank goodness they are gone.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 65,908
    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:
    It’s a very oddly worded headline. UK economy narrowly avoids recession would have been just as accurate.
    The price of the remainer Parliament continuing the uncertainty for an extra 9 months. Thank goodness they are gone.
    No doubt the ‘tsunami of business investment’ will manifest itself in the next quarter.
  • Options
    Barnesian said:

    RobD said:

    MattW said:

    Barnesian said:

    kle4 said:

    Barnesian said:

    IanB2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Hopefully Bedford gets left out of the new funding model being put together by the treasury.

    It's going to be interesting to see how Labour react to money being diverted to their former heartlands and the expense of the their new inner city ones. Do they support it as a necessary measure to fix inequality or they stand up for their new middle class voters?

    The likely rebalancing away from London is ironic with the PM a former mayor of the capital.
    I think the more ignorant the electorate was of Johnson's character and track record, the better the Tories did.
    How ignorant could people possibly be, we heard little else from his opponents, for good reason.
    We heard very little about his track record as Mayor (except what he said), as Foreign Secretary, being fired for lying as a journalist etc and it wouldn't cut through anyway.

    To your average northern working class bloke, he was good ol' Boris, getting Brexit sorted, offering goodies and making them smile.
    Yoou sound horribly patronising, there.

    Around here, it was more like "not voting for the undermining democracy, piss-it-all-away party". People here know about debt and how long it takes to escape from it.
    The voters were too stupid to understand who they were voting for, clearly.
    They aren't stupid - not at all. But they were seduced. You don't have to be stupid to be seduced.
    That's the key thing. Boris is blooming good at seduction. His life story has been all about behaving in ways that get him the girl or the job. What he's been much less good at is behaving in ways that let him keep the girl or the job.

    Now we all get to see if this time is any different.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 52,547
    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:
    It’s a very oddly worded headline. UK economy narrowly avoids recession would have been just as accurate.
    The price of the remainer Parliament continuing the uncertainty for an extra 9 months. Thank goodness they are gone.
    No doubt the ‘tsunami of business investment’ will manifest itself in the next quarter.
    Probably take a little longer than that but next year will be better than this and the year after better still, especially if we can get the trade agreement with the EU nailed down quickly.
  • Options
    kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,478

    MaxPB said:

    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    Hopefully Bedford gets left out of the new funding model being put together by the treasury.

    It's going to be interesting to see how Labour react to money being diverted to their former heartlands and the expense of the their new inner city ones. Do they support it as a necessary measure to fix inequality or they stand up for their new middle class voters?

    y0u Tories are all heart
    Why reward those who refuse to vote for us?

    Governing for a minority is not sustainable.

    Of course it is. A minority of the vote gives you a majority of the seats under FPTP.
  • Options
    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    Alistair said:

    https://twitter.com/TomTugendhat/status/1210239550695579650?s=19

    Some kind of Union of European nations you say?

    Could be. But that's not the only way to do so as others have noted. There are great benefits to be had in the european dream, but people acting as though it's an inevitability or treating it as the only possible solution to any problem did a lot of harm for its cause, as it meant either the positives were not properly sold to people, or were oversold.
    No matter what the problem, the solution is always "More Europe". How could that possibly go wrong?
    We're about to find out how right or wrong those for whom the solution is ALWAYS 'less Europe' are (I note fastidiousness over differentiating between Europe and the EU has been dispensed with).
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,031
    edited December 2019
    MaxPB said:

    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    Hopefully Bedford gets left out of the new funding model being put together by the treasury.

    It's going to be interesting to see how Labour react to money being diverted to their former heartlands and the expense of the their new inner city ones. Do they support it as a necessary measure to fix inequality or they stand up for their new middle class voters?

    y0u Tories are all heart
    Why reward those who refuse to vote for us?
    Come now, that's not the attitude that got the SCons to a piss poor second.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 94,460
    edited December 2019

    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    Alistair said:

    https://twitter.com/TomTugendhat/status/1210239550695579650?s=19

    Some kind of Union of European nations you say?

    Could be. But that's not the only way to do so as others have noted. There are great benefits to be had in the european dream, but people acting as though it's an inevitability or treating it as the only possible solution to any problem did a lot of harm for its cause, as it meant either the positives were not properly sold to people, or were oversold.
    No matter what the problem, the solution is always "More Europe". How could that possibly go wrong?
    We're about to find out how right or wrong those for whom the solution is ALWAYS 'less Europe' are (I note fastidiousness over differentiating between Europe and the EU has been dispensed with).
    People on all sides have always used Europe and the EU interchangably as it suits them. You are of course right about us finding out how right or wrong those who always want less Europe are, but that's just because anybody who always has a single solution response to any problem is a fanatic and even if they are fortunate and it mostly works a lot of the time, they will be very very wrong at some point but will refuse to accept it, because that thing is their religion, whether it is being pro-EU, anti-EU, unionist or nationalist, or determinedly middle of the road.

    The solution always being X is bound to be wrong eventually, no matter what X is. Some things are just wrong more often.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 20,326
    edited December 2019
    OK, my updated 2019 summary of PB posters for the upcoming article looks like this:

    The events (2019)
    @Big_G_North_Wales: Partner died (2018?)
    @CasinoRoyale: Birth of daughter
    @Cyclefree: [details incorrectly dated and will not be submitted]
    @Dura_ace: Lost driving licence but did 102km/h on a bicycle descending the Col du Simplon.
    @ExiledInScotland: Brother with oesophageal cancer
    @FF43: Father died
    @Floater: Son has a lump
    @Gallowgate: Law conversion course Northumbria University
    @Hyufd: Father had cancer (2018?)
    @Jonathan: Mother died. [further details redacted and will not be submitted]
    @malcolmg: Visit to A&E
    @MarqueeMark: Mother died
    @MikeL: Mother died
    @NigelB: Parent with late stage Alzheimers
    @OldKingCole: Operation on lumbar stenosis and wife with gall-bladder problems
    @RobinWiggs: Wife with breast cancer
    @Sandpit: Mother in law died
    @TheScreamingEagles: Thought he had stomach cancer but did not
    @Theuniondivvie: Will do welding class in 2020
    @Tissue_Price: Was elected as MP
    @twistedfirestopper3: Wife with breast cancer


    The deaths (2019 and before)
    @PlatoSaid (aka Philippa): https://politicalbetting.vanillacommunity.com/profile/comments/PlatoSAID
    @MarkSenior: https://politicalbetting.vanillacommunity.com/profile/comments/MarkSenior
    @Calum: https://politicalbetting.vanillacommunity.com/profile/comments/calum

    I couldn't track down the person who has ceased treatment and is now on palliative care only. @Theuniondivvie thinks @Sean_F is the person doing a military history degree but I can't confirm that.

    The article was meant to be a jolly little round-robin to celebrate the PB contributors thru the year, kind of like the things you get in Christmas cards ("Kylie has just started Big School...") , but it seems to have turned into a casualty list. PB skews older than the general population so I should not have been surprised, but it's still a shock. I'll have to turn it into a prayer instead... :(

    Obviously this is personal information, so if you wish to be omitted or I have got any information wrong, please let me know and I'll happily remove or alter it.
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,821
    edited December 2019

    I believe there is a far more relevant and indeed more obvious reason than those given by Mike Smithson for Labour's success in retaining the Bedford Parliamentary Constituency. This relates to its high and expanding ethnic population, evidenced by Electoral Calculus' figures showing that only 77% of its electorate was born in the UK ... this is only marginally higher than the 73% applicable to the Luton North Constituency which is now very much a Labour stronghold, with a majority of 9,247 achieved two weeks ago.
    In both constituencies the percentage of British born constituents is very much lower than the national average of 88%.

    It is far more sophisticated than that. The LAB incumbent is a Muslim which barely endrears him to to Hindu and Sikh communities. Also 29% of the population are of Italian descent and they make up the largest group. In the Mayoral election in May the Tories had their best ever performance when they put up a candidate of Italian descent. There is also a very large Polish community.
    The wonders of ethnic identity politics.
  • Options
    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:
    It’s a very oddly worded headline. UK economy narrowly avoids recession would have been just as accurate.
    The price of the remainer Parliament continuing the uncertainty for an extra 9 months. Thank goodness they are gone.
    Unlikely, judging from the currency markets. The pound is currently lower than it was before the election. Surely it would have risen if it were the uncertainty of Brexit happening, rather than uncertainty due to Brexit, that was the problem.
  • Options
    nunu2nunu2 Posts: 1,453
    The thing about the tory gains of the North and Midlands is many of those areas aren't even the poorest parts of the country.

    So if the tories were being fair, they would increase spending most in the areas of the north/Midlands that Labour still hold.
  • Options
    BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,156
    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    Alistair said:

    https://twitter.com/TomTugendhat/status/1210239550695579650?s=19

    Some kind of Union of European nations you say?

    Could be. But that's not the only way to do so as others have noted. There are great benefits to be had in the european dream, but people acting as though it's an inevitability or treating it as the only possible solution to any problem did a lot of harm for its cause, as it meant either the positives were not properly sold to people, or were oversold.
    No matter what the problem, the solution is always "More Europe". How could that possibly go wrong?
    We're about to find out how right or wrong those for whom the solution is ALWAYS 'less Europe' are (I note fastidiousness over differentiating between Europe and the EU has been dispensed with).
    People on all sides have always used Europe and the EU interchangably as it suits them. You are of course right about us finding out how right or wrong those who always want less Europe are, but that's just because anybody who always has a single solution response to any problem is a fanatic and even if they are fortunate and it mostly works a lot of the time, they will be very very wrong at some point but will refuse to accept it, because that thing is their religion, whether it is being pro-EU, anti-EU, unionist or nationalist, or determinedly middle of the road.

    The solution always being X is bound to be wrong eventually, no matter what X is. Some things are just wrong more often.
    Suppose X is the proposal "The solution always being X is bound to be wrong eventually, no matter what X is."?
  • Options
    maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,450

    Nigelb said:
    It’s a very oddly worded headline. UK economy narrowly avoids recession would have been just as accurate.
    UK growth lowest since 2nd world war, apart from all those times it was lower.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 94,460
    Barnesian said:

    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    Alistair said:

    https://twitter.com/TomTugendhat/status/1210239550695579650?s=19

    Some kind of Union of European nations you say?

    Could be. But that's not the only way to do so as others have noted. There are great benefits to be had in the european dream, but people acting as though it's an inevitability or treating it as the only possible solution to any problem did a lot of harm for its cause, as it meant either the positives were not properly sold to people, or were oversold.
    No matter what the problem, the solution is always "More Europe". How could that possibly go wrong?
    We're about to find out how right or wrong those for whom the solution is ALWAYS 'less Europe' are (I note fastidiousness over differentiating between Europe and the EU has been dispensed with).
    People on all sides have always used Europe and the EU interchangably as it suits them. You are of course right about us finding out how right or wrong those who always want less Europe are, but that's just because anybody who always has a single solution response to any problem is a fanatic and even if they are fortunate and it mostly works a lot of the time, they will be very very wrong at some point but will refuse to accept it, because that thing is their religion, whether it is being pro-EU, anti-EU, unionist or nationalist, or determinedly middle of the road.

    The solution always being X is bound to be wrong eventually, no matter what X is. Some things are just wrong more often.
    Suppose X is the proposal "The solution always being X is bound to be wrong eventually, no matter what X is."?
    You've blown my mind
  • Options
    nunu2 said:

    The thing about the tory gains of the North and Midlands is many of those areas aren't even the poorest parts of the country.

    So if the tories were being fair, they would increase spending most in the areas of the north/Midlands that Labour still hold.

    As in London the poorest areas in the Midlands and North tend to be in the inner cities and in close proximity to areas of recent spending:

    https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/property/inside-lavish-1750-night-penthouse-17127306

    The poorest Conservative areas will likely be in run down coastal areas and will have had Blackpool South, Grimsby and Redcar added to their number now.
  • Options
    viewcode said:

    OK, my updated 2019 summary of PB posters for the upcoming article looks like this:

    The events (2019)
    @Big_G_North_Wales: Partner died (2018?)
    @CasinoRoyale: Birth of daughter
    @Cyclefree: [details incorrectly dated and will not be submitted]
    @Dura_ace: Lost driving licence but did 102km/h on a bicycle descending the Col du Simplon.
    @ExiledInScotland: Brother with oesophageal cancer
    @FF43: Father died
    @Floater: Son has a lump
    @Gallowgate: Law conversion course Northumbria University
    @Hyufd: Father had cancer (2018?)
    @Jonathan: Mother died. [further details redacted and will not be submitted]
    @malcolmg: Visit to A&E
    @MarqueeMark: Mother died
    @MikeL: Mother died
    @NigelB: Parent with late stage Alzheimers
    @OldKingCole: Operation on lumbar stenosis and wife with gall-bladder problems
    @RobinWiggs: Wife with breast cancer
    @Sandpit: Mother in law died
    @TheScreamingEagles: Thought he had stomach cancer but did not
    @Theuniondivvie: Will do welding class in 2020
    @Tissue_Price: Was elected as MP
    @twistedfirestopper3: Wife with breast cancer


    The deaths (2019 and before)
    @PlatoSaid (aka Philippa): https://politicalbetting.vanillacommunity.com/profile/comments/PlatoSAID
    @MarkSenior: https://politicalbetting.vanillacommunity.com/profile/comments/MarkSenior
    @Calum: https://politicalbetting.vanillacommunity.com/profile/comments/calum

    I couldn't track down the person who has ceased treatment and is now on palliative care only. @Theuniondivvie thinks @Sean_F is the person doing a military history degree but I can't confirm that.

    The article was meant to be a jolly little round-robin to celebrate the PB contributors thru the year, kind of like the things you get in Christmas cards ("Kylie has just started Big School...") , but it seems to have turned into a casualty list. PB skews older than the general population so I should not have been surprised, but it's still a shock. I'll have to turn it into a prayer instead... :(

    Obviously this is personal information, so if you wish to be omitted or I have got any information wrong, please let me know and I'll happily remove or alter it.

    I'm not directly involved but I'd be wary of sticking the details of illnesses on a public list. It would be different if pb were a closed group but there is a risk of it being picked up by fraudsters or even well-meaning purveyors of quack medicines. IANAL but there might also be privacy/confidentiality issues. Perhaps just stick to the good news and "those we have lost".

    And speaking of first days at school, perhaps we could commission something along those lines from @Tissue_Price.
  • Options
    Mr. Viewcode, a shade grim, but it's good we remember those no longer with us.
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 26,733
    Christmas celebrations in Aleppo, after wicked Assad brutally crushed those adorable democracy loving rebels.

    https://theunionjournal.com/thousands-of-christians-celebrate-christmas-in-aleppo-after-liberation-from-isis-and-al-qaeda-islamists/

  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 51,737
    That’s a rather sad list.

    I guess we all hope for more births, marriages, new jobs and opportunities - but sadly it seems that too many here have not had the best 2019 personally, mourning losses and dealing with illnesses.
  • Options
    Barnesian said:

    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    Alistair said:

    https://twitter.com/TomTugendhat/status/1210239550695579650?s=19

    Some kind of Union of European nations you say?

    Could be. But that's not the only way to do so as others have noted. There are great benefits to be had in the european dream, but people acting as though it's an inevitability or treating it as the only possible solution to any problem did a lot of harm for its cause, as it meant either the positives were not properly sold to people, or were oversold.
    No matter what the problem, the solution is always "More Europe". How could that possibly go wrong?
    We're about to find out how right or wrong those for whom the solution is ALWAYS 'less Europe' are (I note fastidiousness over differentiating between Europe and the EU has been dispensed with).
    People on all sides have always used Europe and the EU interchangably as it suits them. You are of course right about us finding out how right or wrong those who always want less Europe are, but that's just because anybody who always has a single solution response to any problem is a fanatic and even if they are fortunate and it mostly works a lot of the time, they will be very very wrong at some point but will refuse to accept it, because that thing is their religion, whether it is being pro-EU, anti-EU, unionist or nationalist, or determinedly middle of the road.

    The solution always being X is bound to be wrong eventually, no matter what X is. Some things are just wrong more often.
    Suppose X is the proposal "The solution always being X is bound to be wrong eventually, no matter what X is."?
    A mathematician’s answer if ever I saw one!
    😀
  • Options
    BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,156
    kle4 said:

    Barnesian said:

    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    Alistair said:

    https://twitter.com/TomTugendhat/status/1210239550695579650?s=19

    Some kind of Union of European nations you say?

    Could be. But that's not the only way to do so as others have noted. There are great benefits to be had in the european dream, but people acting as though it's an inevitability or treating it as the only possible solution to any problem did a lot of harm for its cause, as it meant either the positives were not properly sold to people, or were oversold.
    No matter what the problem, the solution is always "More Europe". How could that possibly go wrong?
    We're about to find out how right or wrong those for whom the solution is ALWAYS 'less Europe' are (I note fastidiousness over differentiating between Europe and the EU has been dispensed with).
    People on all sides have always used Europe and the EU interchangably as it suits them. You are of course right about us finding out how right or wrong those who always want less Europe are, but that's just because anybody who always has a single solution response to any problem is a fanatic and even if they are fortunate and it mostly works a lot of the time, they will be very very wrong at some point but will refuse to accept it, because that thing is their religion, whether it is being pro-EU, anti-EU, unionist or nationalist, or determinedly middle of the road.

    The solution always being X is bound to be wrong eventually, no matter what X is. Some things are just wrong more often.
    Suppose X is the proposal "The solution always being X is bound to be wrong eventually, no matter what X is."?
    You've blown my mind
    If your proposal is right, then it will be wrong eventually as it is an X. So there is an X where the solution is never wrong. It can't be your proposal as we've agreed it will be wrong eventually. So what could it be?

    Does that clarify?
  • Options
    Barnesian said:

    kle4 said:

    Barnesian said:

    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    Alistair said:

    https://twitter.com/TomTugendhat/status/1210239550695579650?s=19

    Some kind of Union of European nations you say?

    Could be. But that's not the only way to do so as others have noted. There are great benefits to be had in the european dream, but people acting as though it's an inevitability or treating it as the only possible solution to any problem did a lot of harm for its cause, as it meant either the positives were not properly sold to people, or were oversold.
    No matter what the problem, the solution is always "More Europe". How could that possibly go wrong?
    We're about to find out how right or wrong those for whom the solution is ALWAYS 'less Europe' are (I note fastidiousness over differentiating between Europe and the EU has been dispensed with).
    People on all sides have always used Europe and the EU interchangably as it suits them. You are of course right about us finding out how right or wrong those who always want less Europe are, but that's just because anybody who always has a single solution response to any problem is a fanatic and even if they are fortunate and it mostly works a lot of the time, they will be very very wrong at some point but will refuse to accept it, because that thing is their religion, whether it is being pro-EU, anti-EU, unionist or nationalist, or determinedly middle of the road.

    The solution always being X is bound to be wrong eventually, no matter what X is. Some things are just wrong more often.
    Suppose X is the proposal "The solution always being X is bound to be wrong eventually, no matter what X is."?
    You've blown my mind
    If your proposal is right, then it will be wrong eventually as it is an X. So there is an X where the solution is never wrong. It can't be your proposal as we've agreed it will be wrong eventually. So what could it be?

    Does that clarify?
    In physics “apply the conservation laws” (energy, charge, and momentum for those wondering) works in a surprisingly large percentage of problems. Is there a political equivalent?
  • Options
    BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,156

    Barnesian said:

    kle4 said:

    Barnesian said:

    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    Alistair said:

    https://twitter.com/TomTugendhat/status/1210239550695579650?s=19

    Some kind of Union of European nations you say?

    Could be. But that's not the only way to do so as others have noted. There are great benefits to be had in the european dream, but people acting as though it's an inevitability or treating it as the only possible solution to any problem did a lot of harm for its cause, as it meant either the positives were not properly sold to people, or were oversold.
    No matter what the problem, the solution is always "More Europe". How could that possibly go wrong?
    We're about to find out how right or wrong those for whom the solution is ALWAYS 'less Europe' are (I note fastidiousness over differentiating between Europe and the EU has been dispensed with).
    People on all sides have always used Europe and the EU interchangably as it suits them. You are of course right about us finding out how right or wrong those who always want less Europe are, but that's just because anybody who always has a single solution response to any problem is a fanatic and even if they are fortunate and it mostly works a lot of the time, they will be very very wrong at some point but will refuse to accept it, because that thing is their religion, whether it is being pro-EU, anti-EU, unionist or nationalist, or determinedly middle of the road.

    The solution always being X is bound to be wrong eventually, no matter what X is. Some things are just wrong more often.
    Suppose X is the proposal "The solution always being X is bound to be wrong eventually, no matter what X is."?
    You've blown my mind
    If your proposal is right, then it will be wrong eventually as it is an X. So there is an X where the solution is never wrong. It can't be your proposal as we've agreed it will be wrong eventually. So what could it be?

    Does that clarify?
    In physics “apply the conservation laws” (energy, charge, and momentum for those wondering) works in a surprisingly large percentage of problems. Is there a political equivalent?
    Good thinking. I think there has been a transfer of energy (and manifesto) from the energetic Corbyn of the 2017 campaign to the energetic Johnson of the 2019 campaign leaving Corbyn with no energy or credible manifesto. Labour needs a leader who can capture Johnson's energy in a judo throw.
  • Options
    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    viewcode said:

    OK, my updated 2019 summary of PB posters for the upcoming article looks like this:

    The events (2019)
    @Big_G_North_Wales: Partner died (2018?)
    @CasinoRoyale: Birth of daughter
    @Cyclefree: [details incorrectly dated and will not be submitted]
    @Dura_ace: Lost driving licence but did 102km/h on a bicycle descending the Col du Simplon.
    @ExiledInScotland: Brother with oesophageal cancer
    @FF43: Father died
    @Floater: Son has a lump
    @Gallowgate: Law conversion course Northumbria University
    @Hyufd: Father had cancer (2018?)
    @Jonathan: Mother died. [further details redacted and will not be submitted]
    @malcolmg: Visit to A&E
    @MarqueeMark: Mother died
    @MikeL: Mother died
    @NigelB: Parent with late stage Alzheimers
    @OldKingCole: Operation on lumbar stenosis and wife with gall-bladder problems
    @RobinWiggs: Wife with breast cancer
    @Sandpit: Mother in law died
    @TheScreamingEagles: Thought he had stomach cancer but did not
    @Theuniondivvie: Will do welding class in 2020
    @Tissue_Price: Was elected as MP
    @twistedfirestopper3: Wife with breast cancer


    The deaths (2019 and before)
    @PlatoSaid (aka Philippa): https://politicalbetting.vanillacommunity.com/profile/comments/PlatoSAID
    @MarkSenior: https://politicalbetting.vanillacommunity.com/profile/comments/MarkSenior
    @Calum: https://politicalbetting.vanillacommunity.com/profile/comments/calum

    I couldn't track down the person who has ceased treatment and is now on palliative care only. @Theuniondivvie thinks @Sean_F is the person doing a military history degree but I can't confirm that.

    The article was meant to be a jolly little round-robin to celebrate the PB contributors thru the year, kind of like the things you get in Christmas cards ("Kylie has just started Big School...") , but it seems to have turned into a casualty list. PB skews older than the general population so I should not have been surprised, but it's still a shock. I'll have to turn it into a prayer instead... :(

    Obviously this is personal information, so if you wish to be omitted or I have got any information wrong, please let me know and I'll happily remove or alter it.

    Son does still have lump(s) - but also we were told just before xmas that he has Kidney failure (one only at this stage)

    TBH the emphasis seems to be on the failure right now - what the lumps are keeps seeming to change.

    Hopefully more news in new year and a greater understanding of the way forward
  • Options

    Christmas celebrations in Aleppo, after wicked Assad brutally crushed those adorable democracy loving rebels.

    https://theunionjournal.com/thousands-of-christians-celebrate-christmas-in-aleppo-after-liberation-from-isis-and-al-qaeda-islamists/

    The irony of recent Middle East interventions is that is was often the dictators who'd been protecting minority faiths like Christianity and Judaism. Westerners supported "my enemy's enemy" without realising these groups thought the dictators *too liberal* and wanted not democracy but even worse, usually theocratic, hard men in their place.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,617
    edited December 2019
    Mr (?) viewcode, I'm delighted to to report the as of 29th Dec I'm walking well, if slowly, largely due to age, and wife has actually had her operation and seems fine. Indeed all our immediate family seems fit and well, although there are problems a bit further afield.
    Conversation yesterday afternoon (think it was about them, am a little hazy as to actual times) was about Grandson's II's university application, and whether, since he's in what I call 'First Year VIth' he ought to be moving towards a decision. Since we have several teachers in the family, poor lad doesn't stand a chance.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 61,210
    edited December 2019
    viewcode said:

    OK, my updated 2019 summary of PB posters for the upcoming article looks like this:

    The events (2019)
    @Big_G_North_Wales: Partner died (2018?)
    @CasinoRoyale: Birth of daughter
    @Cyclefree: [details incorrectly dated and will not be submitted]
    @Dura_ace: Lost driving licence but did 102km/h on a bicycle descending the Col du Simplon.
    @ExiledInScotland: Brother with oesophageal cancer
    @FF43: Father died
    @Floater: Son has a lump
    @Gallowgate: Law conversion course Northumbria University
    @Hyufd: Father had cancer (2018?)
    @Jonathan: Mother died. [further details redacted and will not be submitted]
    @malcolmg: Visit to A&E
    @MarqueeMark: Mother died
    @MikeL: Mother died
    @NigelB: Parent with late stage Alzheimers
    @OldKingCole: Operation on lumbar stenosis and wife with gall-bladder problems
    @RobinWiggs: Wife with breast cancer
    @Sandpit: Mother in law died
    @TheScreamingEagles: Thought he had stomach cancer but did not
    @Theuniondivvie: Will do welding class in 2020
    @Tissue_Price: Was elected as MP
    @twistedfirestopper3: Wife with breast cancer


    The deaths (2019 and before)
    @PlatoSaid (aka Philippa): https://politicalbetting.vanillacommunity.com/profile/comments/PlatoSAID
    @MarkSenior: https://politicalbetting.vanillacommunity.com/profile/comments/MarkSenior
    @Calum: https://politicalbetting.vanillacommunity.com/profile/comments/calum

    I couldn't track down the person who has ceased treatment and is now on palliative care only. @Theuniondivvie thinks @Sean_F is the person doing a military history degree but I can't confirm that.

    The article was meant to be a jolly little round-robin to celebrate the PB contributors thru the year, kind of like the things you get in Christmas cards ("Kylie has just started Big School...") , but it seems to have turned into a casualty list. PB skews older than the general population so I should not have been surprised, but it's still a shock. I'll have to turn it into a prayer instead... :(

    Obviously this is personal information, so if you wish to be omitted or I have got any information wrong, please let me know and I'll happily remove or alter it.

    My beloved lady wife of 55 years is still very ever present and just had her 80th birthday celebration.

    However, as she just commented, yes my former business partner of 36 year did pass away on the 10th December 2018, sadly
  • Options

    Mr (?) viewcode, I'm delighted to to report the as of 29th Dec I'm walking well, if slowly, largely due to age, and wife has actually had her operation and seems fine. Indeed all our immediate family seems fit and well, although there are problems a bit further afield.
    Conversation yesterday afternoon (think it was about them, am a little hazy as to actual times) was about Grandson's II's university application, and whether, since he's in what I call 'First Year VIth' he ought to be moving towards a decision. Since we have several teachers in the family, poor lad doesn't stand a chance.

    The boy must go to Oxford. It will set him up for life because the old school Oxford tie dominates politics, the media, most professions and the City. And thanks to rampant grade inflation brilliant tuition, he is 95% certain to get a first or upper second.
  • Options
    Mr. JohnL, when protests were happening but war hadn't started in Syria, there was a piece on the news from a priest there hoping it didn't come to war because he feared Christians would suffer greatly if Assad were removed from power.

    Assad, of course, being an Alawite has a vested interested in protecting minorities. That doesn't mean he didn't have secret police and hasn't done terrible things. But the alternative (ISIS) was even worse.
  • Options

    Hmm. Annoyingly the bet history on Ladbrokes doesn't seem to go back all that far...

    None of the bookies seem to offer more than a six month history in terms of checking out long term bets one might have placed. They simply don't cater adequately for those of us placing long term political bets, some of which can endure for several tears.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 20,326

    I'm not directly involved but I'd be wary of sticking the details of illnesses on a public list. It would be different if pb were a closed group but there is a risk of it being picked up by fraudsters or even well-meaning purveyors of quack medicines. IANAL but there might also be privacy/confidentiality issues. Perhaps just stick to the good news and "those we have lost".

    And speaking of first days at school, perhaps we could commission something along those lines from @Tissue_Price.

    Fair point. As for confidentiality issues, as the details were first disclosed in the comments section, this doesn't involve further disclosure and the comments are eventually lost as they fall off the end of Vanilla's archiving. Of course if they feature in the article than that would be more long-lasting, so best sort it out before then really.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,617

    Mr (?) viewcode, I'm delighted to to report the as of 29th Dec I'm walking well, if slowly, largely due to age, and wife has actually had her operation and seems fine. Indeed all our immediate family seems fit and well, although there are problems a bit further afield.
    Conversation yesterday afternoon (think it was about them, am a little hazy as to actual times) was about Grandson's II's university application, and whether, since he's in what I call 'First Year VIth' he ought to be moving towards a decision. Since we have several teachers in the family, poor lad doesn't stand a chance.

    The boy must go to Oxford. It will set him up for life because the old school Oxford tie dominates politics, the media, most professions and the City. And thanks to rampant grade inflation brilliant tuition, he is 95% certain to get a first or upper second.
    Personally I would prefer Cambridge, since he's technically/design minded, although at the moment Cardiff seems uppermost in his mind. It's 90 years since his Gt Grandfather left The Valleys, but there seems to be some sort of race memory.
    He is doing Philosophy at A level though, so things might change.
  • Options
    mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    Sandpit said:

    That’s a rather sad list.

    I guess we all hope for more births, marriages, new jobs and opportunities - but sadly it seems that too many here have not had the best 2019 personally, mourning losses and dealing with illnesses.

    It’s a completely unnecessary list.
  • Options
    Mr. Putney, yeah, it's a shame. And 'several tears' might be a depressingly accurate summary of my political bets :p
  • Options
    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    kle4 said:

    Barnesian said:

    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    Alistair said:

    https://twitter.com/TomTugendhat/status/1210239550695579650?s=19

    Some kind of Union of European nations you say?

    Could be. But that's not the only way to do so as others have noted. There are great benefits to be had in the european dream, but people acting as though it's an inevitability or treating it as the only possible solution to any problem did a lot of harm for its cause, as it meant either the positives were not properly sold to people, or were oversold.
    No matter what the problem, the solution is always "More Europe". How could that possibly go wrong?
    We're about to find out how right or wrong those for whom the solution is ALWAYS 'less Europe' are (I note fastidiousness over differentiating between Europe and the EU has been dispensed with).
    People on all sides have always used Europe and the EU interchangably as it suits them.

    The solution always being X is bound to be wrong eventually, no matter what X is. Some things are just wrong more often.
    Suppose X is the proposal "The solution always being X is bound to be wrong eventually, no matter what X is."?
    You've blown my mind
    If your proposal is right, then it will be wrong eventually as it is an X. So there is an X where the solution is never wrong. It can't be your proposal as we've agreed it will be wrong eventually. So what could it be?

    Does that clarify?
    In physics “apply the conservation laws” (energy, charge, and momentum for those wondering) works in a surprisingly large percentage of problems. Is there a political equivalent?
    Good thinking. I think there has been a transfer of energy (and manifesto) from the energetic Corbyn of the 2017 campaign to the energetic Johnson of the 2019 campaign leaving Corbyn with no energy or credible manifesto. Labour needs a leader who can capture Johnson's energy in a judo throw.
    Labour need to rid themselves of their all doom and gloom and become positive and confident, backing UK PLC and moving on with a pro business outlook but with a sensible social attitude

    I very much doubt they can change the habit of Corbyn and the last few years depressing narrative. When someone explains how labour boots out momentum then I may believe they are starting the essential first steps
  • Options
    John Harris in Redcar in 2015 with the Conservative candidate.

    He came fourth.

    Four years later he is the MP.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekR3yZlWQ-
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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,247

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    kle4 said:

    Barnesian said:

    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    Alistair said:

    https://twitter.com/TomTugendhat/status/1210239550695579650?s=19

    Some kind of Union of European nations you say?

    Could be. But that's not the only way to do so as others have noted. There are great benefits to be had in the european dream, but people acting as though it's an inevitability or treating it as the only possible solution to any problem did a lot of harm for its cause, as it meant either the positives were not properly sold to people, or were oversold.
    No matter what the problem, the solution is always "More Europe". How could that possibly go wrong?
    We're about to find out how right or wrong those for whom the solution is ALWAYS 'less Europe' are (I note fastidiousness over differentiating between Europe and the EU has been dispensed with).
    People on all sides have always used Europe and the EU interchangably as it suits them.

    The solution always being X is bound to be wrong eventually, no matter what X is. Some things are just wrong more often.
    Suppose X is the proposal "The solution always being X is bound to be wrong eventually, no matter what X is."?
    You've blown my mind
    Does that clarify?
    In physics “apply the conservation laws” (energy, charge, and momentum for those wondering) works in a surprisingly large percentage of problems. Is there a political equivalent?
    Good thinking. I think there has been a transfer of energy (and manifesto) from the energetic Corbyn of the 2017 campaign to the energetic Johnson of the 2019 campaign leaving Corbyn with no energy or credible manifesto. Labour needs a leader who can capture Johnson's energy in a judo throw.
    Labour need to rid themselves of their all doom and gloom and become positive and confident, backing UK PLC and moving on with a pro business outlook but with a sensible social attitude

    I very much doubt they can change the habit of Corbyn and the last few years depressing narrative. When someone explains how labour boots out momentum then I may believe they are starting the essential first steps
    You have a point, but it is hard to navigate the possibilities where Brexit which starts out as an inherently ideological nationalist endeavour that according to most objective analysis makes us poorer and less influential in the world turns into an opportunity for internationalist, social democratic politics.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 65,908
    viewcode said:

    OK, my updated 2019 summary of PB posters for the upcoming article looks like this:

    The events (2019)
    @Big_G_North_Wales: Partner died (2018?)
    @CasinoRoyale: Birth of daughter
    @Cyclefree: [details incorrectly dated and will not be submitted]
    @Dura_ace: Lost driving licence but did 102km/h on a bicycle descending the Col du Simplon.
    @ExiledInScotland: Brother with oesophageal cancer
    @FF43: Father died
    @Floater: Son has a lump
    @Gallowgate: Law conversion course Northumbria University
    @Hyufd: Father had cancer (2018?)
    @Jonathan: Mother died. [further details redacted and will not be submitted]
    @malcolmg: Visit to A&E
    @MarqueeMark: Mother died
    @MikeL: Mother died
    @NigelB: Parent with late stage Alzheimers
    @OldKingCole: Operation on lumbar stenosis and wife with gall-bladder problems
    @RobinWiggs: Wife with breast cancer
    @Sandpit: Mother in law died
    @TheScreamingEagles: Thought he had stomach cancer but did not
    @Theuniondivvie: Will do welding class in 2020
    @Tissue_Price: Was elected as MP
    @twistedfirestopper3: Wife with breast cancer


    The deaths (2019 and before)
    @PlatoSaid (aka Philippa): https://politicalbetting.vanillacommunity.com/profile/comments/PlatoSAID
    @MarkSenior: https://politicalbetting.vanillacommunity.com/profile/comments/MarkSenior
    @Calum: https://politicalbetting.vanillacommunity.com/profile/comments/calum

    I couldn't track down the person who has ceased treatment and is now on palliative care only. @Theuniondivvie thinks @Sean_F is the person doing a military history degree but I can't confirm that.

    The article was meant to be a jolly little round-robin to celebrate the PB contributors thru the year, kind of like the things you get in Christmas cards ("Kylie has just started Big School...") , but it seems to have turned into a casualty list. PB skews older than the general population so I should not have been surprised, but it's still a shock. I'll have to turn it into a prayer instead... :(

    Obviously this is personal information, so if you wish to be omitted or I have got any information wrong, please let me know and I'll happily remove or alter it.

    On the subject of palliative care, this is a superb article:
    https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2010/08/02/letting-go-2

    (Though note it’s nearly a decade old, and with recent advances in cancer immunotherapy, the cost/benefit calculation has shifted a little in favour of treatment.)
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    BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,156
    edited December 2019

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    kle4 said:

    Barnesian said:

    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    Alistair said:

    https://twitter.com/TomTugendhat/status/1210239550695579650?s=19

    Some kind of Union of European nations you say?

    No matter what the problem, the solution is always "More Europe". How could that possibly go wrong?
    We're about to find out how right or wrong those for whom the solution is ALWAYS 'less Europe' are (I note fastidiousness over differentiating between Europe and the EU has been dispensed with).
    People on all sides have always used Europe and the EU interchangably as it suits them.

    The solution always being X is bound to be wrong eventually, no matter what X is. Some things are just wrong more often.
    Suppose X is the proposal "The solution always being X is bound to be wrong eventually, no matter what X is."?
    You've blown my mind
    If your proposal is right, then it will be wrong eventually as it is an X. So there is an X where the solution is never wrong. It can't be your proposal as we've agreed it will be wrong eventually. So what could it be?

    Does that clarify?
    In physics “apply the conservation laws” (energy, charge, and momentum for those wondering) works in a surprisingly large percentage of problems. Is there a political equivalent?
    Good thinking. I think there has been a transfer of energy (and manifesto) from the energetic Corbyn of the 2017 campaign to the energetic Johnson of the 2019 campaign leaving Corbyn with no energy or credible manifesto. Labour needs a leader who can capture Johnson's energy in a judo throw.
    Labour need to rid themselves of their all doom and gloom and become positive and confident, backing UK PLC and moving on with a pro business outlook but with a sensible social attitude

    I very much doubt they can change the habit of Corbyn and the last few years depressing narrative. When someone explains how labour boots out momentum then I may believe they are starting the essential first steps
    Momentum is indeed a drag on Labour. What a misnomer!

    The new Labour leader needs to capture the imagination and fervour of Labour members and capture the energy and optimism of Johnson as he hits the reality of governing. As you say, it needs to be positive and confident.

    Jess Phillips? You don't need an ideology. Just a personality.
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    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 20,326

    viewcode said:

    OK, my updated 2019 summary of PB posters for the upcoming article looks like this:

    The events (2019)
    @Big_G_North_Wales: Partner died (2018?)
    @CasinoRoyale: Birth of daughter
    @Cyclefree: [details incorrectly dated and will not be submitted]
    @Dura_ace: Lost driving licence but did 102km/h on a bicycle descending the Col du Simplon.
    @ExiledInScotland: Brother with oesophageal cancer
    @FF43: Father died
    @Floater: Son has a lump
    @Gallowgate: Law conversion course Northumbria University
    @Hyufd: Father had cancer (2018?)
    @Jonathan: Mother died. [further details redacted and will not be submitted]
    @malcolmg: Visit to A&E
    @MarqueeMark: Mother died
    @MikeL: Mother died
    @NigelB: Parent with late stage Alzheimers
    @OldKingCole: Operation on lumbar stenosis and wife with gall-bladder problems
    @RobinWiggs: Wife with breast cancer
    @Sandpit: Mother in law died
    @TheScreamingEagles: Thought he had stomach cancer but did not
    @Theuniondivvie: Will do welding class in 2020
    @Tissue_Price: Was elected as MP
    @twistedfirestopper3: Wife with breast cancer


    The deaths (2019 and before)
    @PlatoSaid (aka Philippa): https://politicalbetting.vanillacommunity.com/profile/comments/PlatoSAID
    @MarkSenior: https://politicalbetting.vanillacommunity.com/profile/comments/MarkSenior
    @Calum: https://politicalbetting.vanillacommunity.com/profile/comments/calum

    I couldn't track down the person who has ceased treatment and is now on palliative care only. @Theuniondivvie thinks @Sean_F is the person doing a military history degree but I can't confirm that.

    The article was meant to be a jolly little round-robin to celebrate the PB contributors thru the year, kind of like the things you get in Christmas cards ("Kylie has just started Big School...") , but it seems to have turned into a casualty list. PB skews older than the general population so I should not have been surprised, but it's still a shock. I'll have to turn it into a prayer instead... :(

    Obviously this is personal information, so if you wish to be omitted or I have got any information wrong, please let me know and I'll happily remove or alter it.

    My beloved lady wife of 55 years is still very ever present and just had her 80th birthday celebration.

    However, as she just commented, yes my former business partner of 36 year did pass away on the 10th December 2018, sadly
    Thank you, @Big_G_NorthWales . Hopefully the coming year will be less sad and more happy.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 20,326

    Mr (?) viewcode, I'm delighted to to report the as of 29th Dec I'm walking well, if slowly, largely due to age, and wife has actually had her operation and seems fine. Indeed all our immediate family seems fit and well, although there are problems a bit further afield.
    Conversation yesterday afternoon (think it was about them, am a little hazy as to actual times) was about Grandson's II's university application, and whether, since he's in what I call 'First Year VIth' he ought to be moving towards a decision. Since we have several teachers in the family, poor lad doesn't stand a chance.

    Good to know, @OldKingCole . I'll amend things accordingly.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 20,326
    Floater said:

    viewcode said:

    OK, my updated 2019 summary of PB posters for the upcoming article looks like this:

    The events (2019)
    @Big_G_North_Wales: Partner died (2018?)
    @CasinoRoyale: Birth of daughter
    @Cyclefree: [details incorrectly dated and will not be submitted]
    @Dura_ace: Lost driving licence but did 102km/h on a bicycle descending the Col du Simplon.
    @ExiledInScotland: Brother with oesophageal cancer
    @FF43: Father died
    @Floater: Son has a lump
    @Gallowgate: Law conversion course Northumbria University
    @Hyufd: Father had cancer (2018?)
    @Jonathan: Mother died. [further details redacted and will not be submitted]
    @malcolmg: Visit to A&E
    @MarqueeMark: Mother died
    @MikeL: Mother died
    @NigelB: Parent with late stage Alzheimers
    @OldKingCole: Operation on lumbar stenosis and wife with gall-bladder problems
    @RobinWiggs: Wife with breast cancer
    @Sandpit: Mother in law died
    @TheScreamingEagles: Thought he had stomach cancer but did not
    @Theuniondivvie: Will do welding class in 2020
    @Tissue_Price: Was elected as MP
    @twistedfirestopper3: Wife with breast cancer


    The deaths (2019 and before)
    @PlatoSaid (aka Philippa): https://politicalbetting.vanillacommunity.com/profile/comments/PlatoSAID
    @MarkSenior: https://politicalbetting.vanillacommunity.com/profile/comments/MarkSenior
    @Calum: https://politicalbetting.vanillacommunity.com/profile/comments/calum

    I couldn't track down the person who has ceased treatment and is now on palliative care only. @Theuniondivvie thinks @Sean_F is the person doing a military history degree but I can't confirm that.

    The article was meant to be a jolly little round-robin to celebrate the PB contributors thru the year, kind of like the things you get in Christmas cards ("Kylie has just started Big School...") , but it seems to have turned into a casualty list. PB skews older than the general population so I should not have been surprised, but it's still a shock. I'll have to turn it into a prayer instead... :(

    Obviously this is personal information, so if you wish to be omitted or I have got any information wrong, please let me know and I'll happily remove or alter it.

    Son does still have lump(s) - but also we were told just before xmas that he has Kidney failure (one only at this stage)

    TBH the emphasis seems to be on the failure right now - what the lumps are keeps seeming to change.

    Hopefully more news in new year and a greater understanding of the way forward
    Indeed, @Floater . I hope it turns out for the good.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    I totally oppose foxhunting and all cruelty to animals.

    Maugham needs to be investigated for animal cruelty.

    From the Mail, the fox was caught in electric netting. Presumably scared and in pain.
  • Options
    @viewcode. Thank you for noting my brother in your list. He passed away on 7th September at the Arthur Rank hospice in Cambridge. I was very grateful for the support on here when he was diagnosed and when he passed away. I wish everyone here a good 2020.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 20,326

    @viewcode. Thank you for noting my brother in your list. He passed away on 7th September at the Arthur Rank hospice in Cambridge. I was very grateful for the support on here when he was diagnosed and when he passed away. I wish everyone here a good 2020.

    Thank you, @ExiledInScotland. Sad news and I hope you find further support as time passes. I hope that 2020 will be happier.
  • Options
    Charles said:

    I totally oppose foxhunting and all cruelty to animals.

    Maugham needs to be investigated for animal cruelty.

    From the Mail, the fox was caught in electric netting. Presumably scared and in pain.
    It's one of the most bizarre things I've ever read. The bloke seems deranged. He's clearly swallowed his own hype, boasting about it and thinking that he needs to post on twitter everything he does, believing his hashtag gang will lap it up. Clearly Brexit has sent him insane.
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    EPGEPG Posts: 6,602
    I see PB voters for the "Bumboys and Piccaninnies" PM are still lecturing everyone else on their moral superiority.
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,681
    MaxPB said:

    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    malcolmg said:

    MaxPB said:

    Hopefully Bedford gets left out of the new funding model being put together by the treasury.

    It's going to be interesting to see how Labour react to money being diverted to their former heartlands and the expense of the their new inner city ones. Do they support it as a necessary measure to fix inequality or they stand up for their new middle class voters?

    y0u Tories are all heart
    Why reward those who refuse to vote for us?
    I f you don't know why I cannot help you, you have to give some credence to people having differing opinions and alienating them by punishing them seems pretty heartless and dumb to me.
    You have to take other people with you , not punish them.
    I was being facetious, btw. I think it's clear that the new spending settlement is going to favour places that have been forgotten in the last 20 years, which is a good thing. Gains in GDP aren't everything. The way I see it, it's better for someone earning £25k to see a 10% rise in living standards than someone on £50k to see the same, despite the latter having a larger positive effect on nominal GDP.
    thank goodness
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,681
    matt said:

    Sandpit said:

    That’s a rather sad list.

    I guess we all hope for more births, marriages, new jobs and opportunities - but sadly it seems that too many here have not had the best 2019 personally, mourning losses and dealing with illnesses.

    It’s a completely unnecessary list.
    It was a nice thought though
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 69,033
    Barnesian said:

    ydoethur said:

    Barnesian said:

    Toms said:

    Toms said:

    Toms said:

    Our "remain" Bedford household (thinking about the world outside little Britain) , acting on the basis that Brexit is self-harming and will leave permanent scars, took the best tactical advice and voted Labour in spite of our loathing for Corbyn.

    and you didn't think Corbyn was harmful? Amazing.
    I try to choose my words carefully.
    Key here is the phrase " permanent scars".
    So you are into homeopathy rather than surgery.. well its a view I suppose,.
    Theoretical physics.
    "permanent damage"might have been a better choice.
    This is a betting site: the odds of Corbyn getting a majority were negligible.
    Politics here is basically polarised with one lot undoing the other lot's work, with the LDs being accused of wishy-washyness and squeezed by the two extremes.
    Corbyn has pulled Johnson and the Tories over into centre-left territory with their Keynesian manifesto and focus on public services and infrastructure and lack of tax cuts.

    Apart from nationalisation of the railways, the Tory 2019 manifesto is quite similar to the Labour 2017 manifesto which was a Venezuelan communist disaster according to the Tories at the time.

    Corbyn, like Farage, has achieved a lot in setting the political agenda without achieving power.
    Really? I missed the bit where the Tories promised to abolish tuition fees, made an off the cuff commitment to wipe out student debt, said that they would bring all schools under direct state control and tax private schools out of business, bring in rent controls and licenses for private landlords, outlaw zero hours contracts, nationalise power, water and the postal service, and force companies to appoint employees to their boards.
    I was referring to the 2017 Labour manifesto. Labour made the mistake in 2019 in trying to outbid the Tories on their left wing manifesto and lost all credibility. They should have congratulated the Tories on adopting a Labour manifesto and said to the electorate "If you want a Labour manifesto actually delivered, for Christ's sake, vote Labour!".
    @Barnesian

    So was I. All of those were in the 2017 Labour manifesto.

    The difference in 2019 was of style rather than substance. Labour were being much more open about what they wanted to do and were much less careful about pretending they knew how to pay for it.
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,129
    RobD said:

    MattW said:

    Barnesian said:

    kle4 said:

    Barnesian said:

    IanB2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Hopefully Bedford gets left out of the new funding model being put together by the treasury.

    It's going to be interesting to see how Labour react to money being diverted to their former heartlands and the expense of the their new inner city ones. Do they support it as a necessary measure to fix inequality or they stand up for their new middle class voters?

    The likely rebalancing away from London is ironic with the PM a former mayor of the capital.
    I think the more ignorant the electorate was of Johnson's character and track record, the better the Tories did.
    How ignorant could people possibly be, we heard little else from his opponents, for good reason.
    We heard very little about his track record as Mayor (except what he said), as Foreign Secretary, being fired for lying as a journalist etc and it wouldn't cut through anyway.

    To your average northern working class bloke, he was good ol' Boris, getting Brexit sorted, offering goodies and making them smile.
    Yoou sound horribly patronising, there.

    Around here, it was more like "not voting for the undermining democracy, piss-it-all-away party". People here know about debt and how long it takes to escape from it.
    The voters were too stupid to understand who they were voting for, clearly.
    Althuogh clever enough to understand a duff election prediction model which was clearly highly influenced by an enormous dose of wishful thinking.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 69,033
    What’s the difference between England’s batting and Labour?

    Labour just about limped to 200.
  • Options
    ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578

    Dura_Ace said:

    I totally oppose foxhunting and all cruelty to animals.

    Maugham needs to be investigated for animal cruelty.

    You are the only tory on here not to indulge in vice signalling on the matter so respect for that.
    Well foxes should be killed as they are cruel and vicious to other animals
    FFS Foxes are not "cruel" or "vicious". This is anthropomorphising. It is the fallacy of an imbecile.

    Animals do not have higher human desires, let alone a sense of morality they can knowingly infringe.
  • Options
    ydoethur said:

    What’s the difference between England’s batting and Labour?

    Labour just about limped to 200.

    Its a good job England bat deep....
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 69,033

    ydoethur said:

    What’s the difference between England’s batting and Labour?

    Labour just about limped to 200.

    Its a good job England bat deep....
    The only depth round here is ‘out of their depth.’
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 20,326
    BigRich said:

    viewcode said:

    OK, my updated 2019 summary of PB posters for the upcoming article looks like this:

    The events (2019)
    @Big_G_North_Wales: Partner died (2018?)
    @CasinoRoyale: Birth of daughter
    @Cyclefree: [details incorrectly dated and will not be submitted]
    @Dura_ace: Lost driving licence but did 102km/h on a bicycle descending the Col du Simplon.
    @ExiledInScotland: Brother with oesophageal cancer
    @FF43: Father died
    @Floater: Son has a lump
    @Gallowgate: Law conversion course Northumbria University
    @Hyufd: Father had cancer (2018?)
    @Jonathan: Mother died. [further details redacted and will not be submitted]
    @malcolmg: Visit to A&E
    @MarqueeMark: Mother died
    @MikeL: Mother died
    @NigelB: Parent with late stage Alzheimers
    @OldKingCole: Operation on lumbar stenosis and wife with gall-bladder problems
    @RobinWiggs: Wife with breast cancer
    @Sandpit: Mother in law died
    @TheScreamingEagles: Thought he had stomach cancer but did not
    @Theuniondivvie: Will do welding class in 2020
    @Tissue_Price: Was elected as MP
    @twistedfirestopper3: Wife with breast cancer


    The deaths (2019 and before)
    @PlatoSaid (aka Philippa): https://politicalbetting.vanillacommunity.com/profile/comments/PlatoSAID
    @MarkSenior: https://politicalbetting.vanillacommunity.com/profile/comments/MarkSenior
    @Calum: https://politicalbetting.vanillacommunity.com/profile/comments/calum

    I couldn't track down the person who has ceased treatment and is now on palliative care only. @Theuniondivvie thinks @Sean_F is the person doing a military history degree but I can't confirm that.

    The article was meant to be a jolly little round-robin to celebrate the PB contributors thru the year, kind of like the things you get in Christmas cards ("Kylie has just started Big School...") , but it seems to have turned into a casualty list. PB skews older than the general population so I should not have been surprised, but it's still a shock. I'll have to turn it into a prayer instead... :(

    Obviously this is personal information, so if you wish to be omitted or I have got any information wrong, please let me know and I'll happily remove or alter it.

    I'm not sure if I post enough to get a mention in this article, but for what its worth, its been a great year for me: I got engaged in the spring and marred in August, to a beautiful lady from New Zealand.

    Oh, excellent news! Yes, it will be included!
  • Options
    ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578

    Barnesian said:

    RobD said:

    MattW said:

    Barnesian said:

    kle4 said:

    Barnesian said:

    IanB2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Hopefully Bedford gets left out of the new funding model being put together by the treasury.

    It's going to be interesting to see how Labour react to money being diverted to their former heartlands and the expense of the their new inner city ones. Do they support it as a necessary measure to fix inequality or they stand up for their new middle class voters?

    The likely rebalancing away from London is ironic with the PM a former mayor of the capital.
    I think the more ignorant the electorate was of Johnson's character and track record, the better the Tories did.
    How ignorant could people possibly be, we heard little else from his opponents, for good reason.
    We heard very little about his track record as Mayor (except what he said), as Foreign Secretary, being fired for lying as a journalist etc and it wouldn't cut through anyway.

    To your average northern working class bloke, he was good ol' Boris, getting Brexit sorted, offering goodies and making them smile.
    Yoou sound horribly patronising, there.

    Around here, it was more like "not voting for the undermining democracy, piss-it-all-away party". People here know about debt and how long it takes to escape from it.
    The voters were too stupid to understand who they were voting for, clearly.
    They aren't stupid - not at all. But they were seduced. You don't have to be stupid to be seduced.
    That's the key thing. Boris is blooming good at seduction. His life story has been all about behaving in ways that get him the girl or the job. What he's been much less good at is behaving in ways that let him keep the girl or the job.

    Now we all get to see if this time is any different.
    He kept his job as mayor of London for two terms, in a very Labour city, because he was seen as a good mayor. Which he was.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 69,033
    Buttler served that up on a plate.

    England now officially buggered.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 51,737
    BigRich said:

    viewcode said:

    OK, my updated 2019 summary of PB posters for the upcoming article looks like this:

    The events (2019)
    @Big_G_North_Wales: Partner died (2018?)
    @CasinoRoyale: Birth of daughter
    @Cyclefree: [details incorrectly dated and will not be submitted]
    @Dura_ace: Lost driving licence but did 102km/h on a bicycle descending the Col du Simplon.
    @ExiledInScotland: Brother with oesophageal cancer
    @FF43: Father died
    @Floater: Son has a lump
    @Gallowgate: Law conversion course Northumbria University
    @Hyufd: Father had cancer (2018?)
    @Jonathan: Mother died. [further details redacted and will not be submitted]
    @malcolmg: Visit to A&E
    @MarqueeMark: Mother died
    @MikeL: Mother died
    @NigelB: Parent with late stage Alzheimers
    @OldKingCole: Operation on lumbar stenosis and wife with gall-bladder problems
    @RobinWiggs: Wife with breast cancer
    @Sandpit: Mother in law died
    @TheScreamingEagles: Thought he had stomach cancer but did not
    @Theuniondivvie: Will do welding class in 2020
    @Tissue_Price: Was elected as MP
    @twistedfirestopper3: Wife with breast cancer


    The deaths (2019 and before)
    @PlatoSaid (aka Philippa): https://politicalbetting.vanillacommunity.com/profile/comments/PlatoSAID
    @MarkSenior: https://politicalbetting.vanillacommunity.com/profile/comments/MarkSenior
    @Calum: https://politicalbetting.vanillacommunity.com/profile/comments/calum

    I couldn't track down the person who has ceased treatment and is now on palliative care only. @Theuniondivvie thinks @Sean_F is the person doing a military history degree but I can't confirm that.

    The article was meant to be a jolly little round-robin to celebrate the PB contributors thru the year, kind of like the things you get in Christmas cards ("Kylie has just started Big School...") , but it seems to have turned into a casualty list. PB skews older than the general population so I should not have been surprised, but it's still a shock. I'll have to turn it into a prayer instead... :(

    Obviously this is personal information, so if you wish to be omitted or I have got any information wrong, please let me know and I'll happily remove or alter it.

    I'm not sure if I post enough to get a mention in this article, but for what its worth, its been a great year for me: I got engaged in the spring and marred in August, to a beautiful lady from New Zealand.
    Yay, some PBers with good news from 2019!
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,022
    Another divide is rail-road. Labour made it clear they were on the rail users side, the Tories - well drivers know they're their best bet
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 26,733
    edited December 2019

    viewcode said:

    OK, my updated 2019 summary of PB posters for the upcoming article looks like this:

    The events (2019)
    @Big_G_North_Wales: Partner died (2018?)
    @CasinoRoyale: Birth of daughter
    @Cyclefree: [details incorrectly dated and will not be submitted]
    @Dura_ace: Lost driving licence but did 102km/h on a bicycle descending the Col du Simplon.
    @ExiledInScotland: Brother with oesophageal cancer
    @FF43: Father died
    @Floater: Son has a lump
    @Gallowgate: Law conversion course Northumbria University
    @Hyufd: Father had cancer (2018?)
    @Jonathan: Mother died. [further details redacted and will not be submitted]
    @malcolmg: Visit to A&E
    @MarqueeMark: Mother died
    @MikeL: Mother died
    @NigelB: Parent with late stage Alzheimers
    @OldKingCole: Operation on lumbar stenosis and wife with gall-bladder problems
    @RobinWiggs: Wife with breast cancer
    @Sandpit: Mother in law died
    @TheScreamingEagles: Thought he had stomach cancer but did not
    @Theuniondivvie: Will do welding class in 2020
    @Tissue_Price: Was elected as MP
    @twistedfirestopper3: Wife with breast cancer


    The deaths (2019 and before)
    @PlatoSaid (aka Philippa): https://politicalbetting.vanillacommunity.com/profile/comments/PlatoSAID
    @MarkSenior: https://politicalbetting.vanillacommunity.com/profile/comments/MarkSenior
    @Calum: https://politicalbetting.vanillacommunity.com/profile/comments/calum

    I couldn't track down the person who has ceased treatment and is now on palliative care only. @Theuniondivvie thinks @Sean_F is the person doing a military history degree but I can't confirm that.

    The article was meant to be a jolly little round-robin to celebrate the PB contributors thru the year, kind of like the things you get in Christmas cards ("Kylie has just started Big School...") , but it seems to have turned into a casualty list. PB skews older than the general population so I should not have been surprised, but it's still a shock. I'll have to turn it into a prayer instead... :(

    Obviously this is personal information, so if you wish to be omitted or I have got any information wrong, please let me know and I'll happily remove or alter it.

    My beloved lady wife of 55 years is still very ever present and just had her 80th birthday celebration.

    However, as she just commented, yes my former business partner of 36 year did pass away on the 10th December 2018, sadly
    I thought so! And here's to many more years to come.
  • Options
    RobinWiggsRobinWiggs Posts: 621
    edited December 2019

    viewcode said:

    OK, my updated 2019 summary of PB posters for the upcoming article looks like this:

    The events (2019)
    @Big_G_North_Wales: Partner died (2018?)
    @CasinoRoyale: Birth of daughter
    @Cyclefree: [details incorrectly dated and will not be submitted]
    @Dura_ace: Lost driving licence but did 102km/h on a bicycle descending the Col du Simplon.
    @ExiledInScotland: Brother with oesophageal cancer
    @FF43: Father died
    @Floater: Son has a lump
    @Gallowgate: Law conversion course Northumbria University
    @Hyufd: Father had cancer (2018?)
    @Jonathan: Mother died. [further details redacted and will not be submitted]
    @malcolmg: Visit to A&E
    @MarqueeMark: Mother died
    @MikeL: Mother died
    @NigelB: Parent with late stage Alzheimers
    @OldKingCole: Operation on lumbar stenosis and wife with gall-bladder problems
    @RobinWiggs: Wife with breast cancer
    @Sandpit: Mother in law died
    @TheScreamingEagles: Thought he had stomach cancer but did not
    @Theuniondivvie: Will do welding class in 2020
    @Tissue_Price: Was elected as MP
    @twistedfirestopper3: Wife with breast cancer


    The deaths (2019 and before)
    @PlatoSaid (aka Philippa): https://politicalbetting.vanillacommunity.com/profile/comments/PlatoSAID
    @MarkSenior: https://politicalbetting.vanillacommunity.com/profile/comments/MarkSenior
    @Calum: https://politicalbetting.vanillacommunity.com/profile/comments/calum

    I couldn't track down the person who has ceased treatment and is now on palliative care only. @Theuniondivvie thinks @Sean_F is the person doing a military history degree but I can't confirm that.

    The article was meant to be a jolly little round-robin to celebrate the PB contributors thru the year, kind of like the things you get in Christmas cards ("Kylie has just started Big School...") , but it seems to have turned into a casualty list. PB skews older than the general population so I should not have been surprised, but it's still a shock. I'll have to turn it into a prayer instead... :(

    Obviously this is personal information, so if you wish to be omitted or I have got any information wrong, please let me know and I'll happily remove or alter it.

    My beloved lady wife of 55 years is still very ever present and just had her 80th birthday celebration.

    However, as she just commented, yes my former business partner of 36 year did pass away on the 10th December 2018, sadly
    I thought so! And here's to many more to come.

    Thankfully, I prefer to think of the ever-lovely MrsW as "having had breast cancer" - since treatment has been successfully completed as she is currently disease-free. Long may it continue that way!
  • Options

    John Harris in Redcar in 2015 with the Conservative candidate.

    He came fourth.

    Four years later he is the MP.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekR3yZlWQ-

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/may/04/anger-apathy-hope-great-british-election-diary

    Here is the video, I couldn’t get it to work on the link.
  • Options
    Byronic said:

    Barnesian said:

    RobD said:

    MattW said:

    Barnesian said:

    kle4 said:

    Barnesian said:

    IanB2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Hopefully Bedford gets left out of the new funding model being put together by the treasury.

    It's going to be interesting to see how Labour react to money being diverted to their former heartlands and the expense of the their new inner city ones. Do they support it as a necessary measure to fix inequality or they stand up for their new middle class voters?

    The likely rebalancing away from London is ironic with the PM a former mayor of the capital.
    I think the more ignorant the electorate was of Johnson's character and track record, the better the Tories did.
    How ignorant could people possibly be, we heard little else from his opponents, for good reason.
    We heard very little about his track record as Mayor (except what he said), as Foreign Secretary, being fired for lying as a journalist etc and it wouldn't cut through anyway.

    To your average northern working class bloke, he was good ol' Boris, getting Brexit sorted, offering goodies and making them smile.
    Yoou sound horribly patronising, there.

    Around here, it was more like "not voting for the undermining democracy, piss-it-all-away party". People here know about debt and how long it takes to escape from it.
    The voters were too stupid to understand who they were voting for, clearly.
    They aren't stupid - not at all. But they were seduced. You don't have to be stupid to be seduced.
    That's the key thing. Boris is blooming good at seduction. His life story has been all about behaving in ways that get him the girl or the job. What he's been much less good at is behaving in ways that let him keep the girl or the job.

    Now we all get to see if this time is any different.
    He kept his job as mayor of London for two terms, in a very Labour city, because he was seen as a good mayor. Which he was.
    Delegation. That's the key. By and large, Boris left in place most of the managers he inherited from Ken, although he also recruited some deputy mayors to do the day job.

    That was before Boris met Dominic Cummings. The Cummings doctrine assumes incumbent professionals are incompetent, lazy and hostile, and existing systems obsolete. Whether Boris can handle permanent revolution in Whitehall is yet to be seen.
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,247
    Byronic said:

    Barnesian said:

    RobD said:

    MattW said:

    Barnesian said:

    kle4 said:

    Barnesian said:

    IanB2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Hopefully Bedford gets left out of the new funding model being put together by the treasury.

    It's going to be interesting to see how Labour react to money being diverted to their former heartlands and the expense of the their new inner city ones. Do they support it as a necessary measure to fix inequality or they stand up for their new middle class voters?

    The likely rebalancing away from London is ironic with the PM a former mayor of the capital.
    I think the more ignorant the electorate was of Johnson's character and track record, the better the Tories did.
    How ignorant could people possibly be, we heard little else from his opponents, for good reason.
    We heard very little about his track record as Mayor (except what he said), as Foreign Secretary, being fired for lying as a journalist etc and it wouldn't cut through anyway.

    To your average northern working class bloke, he was good ol' Boris, getting Brexit sorted, offering goodies and making them smile.
    Yoou sound horribly patronising, there.

    Around here, it was more like "not voting for the undermining democracy, piss-it-all-away party". People here know about debt and how long it takes to escape from it.
    The voters were too stupid to understand who they were voting for, clearly.
    They aren't stupid - not at all. But they were seduced. You don't have to be stupid to be seduced.
    That's the key thing. Boris is blooming good at seduction. His life story has been all about behaving in ways that get him the girl or the job. What he's been much less good at is behaving in ways that let him keep the girl or the job.

    Now we all get to see if this time is any different.
    He kept his job as mayor of London for two terms, in a very Labour city, because he was seen as a good mayor. Which he was.
    He was up against Livingstone, who was a busted flush. If he had been up against a fresh Labour candidate he may well have lost. He was not seen as that great, although the history books are clearly now being rewritten.
  • Options

    Charles said:

    I totally oppose foxhunting and all cruelty to animals.

    Maugham needs to be investigated for animal cruelty.

    From the Mail, the fox was caught in electric netting. Presumably scared and in pain.
    It's one of the most bizarre things I've ever read. The bloke seems deranged. He's clearly swallowed his own hype, boasting about it and thinking that he needs to post on twitter everything he does, believing his hashtag gang will lap it up. Clearly Brexit has sent him insane.
    Yes - I couldn't quite believe it at first. I assumed it was some deeply ironic (and made up) story that was having a dig at all the Boxing Day hunts. Then it turned out to be true, and he is simply a twitterholic imbecile.

    By the way, as a livestock owner and rural-dweller for the vast majority of my life, I will probably diverge from many of you on here.

    I am an advocate of culling foxes for reasons of pest control - much like rats, rabbits, etc. Shooting, trapping and poisoning are risky, indiscriminate and can cause more harm and distress than hunting with dogs. I would agree that hunting as a sport is unacceptable - but flushing out with hounds to be shot (as allowed by the current law) seems to me to be a reasonable approach to a fiendishly difficult and emotive issue. For clarity, I neither ride nor hunt myself.

    And if people want to get dressed up in their finery and chase a drag trail across the fields, then who are we to stop them?

    I am bemused that hunting seems to cause so much angst to so many people, when fishing doesn't, nor for that matter the ridiculous practice of keeping carnivorous animals indoors in unnatural conditions. I would hazard that far more welfare harm is caused in absolute terms by keeping dogs in poor domestic conditions than the culling of foxes.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 69,033

    Byronic said:

    Barnesian said:

    RobD said:

    MattW said:

    Barnesian said:

    kle4 said:

    Barnesian said:

    IanB2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Hopefully Bedford gets left out of the new funding model being put together by the treasury.

    It's going to be interesting to see how Labour react to money being diverted to their former heartlands and the expense of the their new inner city ones. Do they support it as a necessary measure to fix inequality or they stand up for their new middle class voters?

    The likely rebalancing away from London is ironic with the PM a former mayor of the capital.
    I think the more ignorant the electorate was of Johnson's character and track record, the better the Tories did.
    How ignorant could people possibly be, we heard little else from his opponents, for good reason.
    We heard very little about his track record as Mayor (except what he said), as Foreign Secretary, being fired for lying as a journalist etc and it wouldn't cut through anyway.

    To your average northern working class bloke, he was good ol' Boris, getting Brexit sorted, offering goodies and making them smile.
    Yoou sound horribly patronising, there.

    Around here, it was more like "not voting for the undermining democracy, piss-it-all-away party". People here know about debt and how long it takes to escape from it.
    The voters were too stupid to understand who they were voting for, clearly.
    They aren't stupid - not at all. But they were seduced. You don't have to be stupid to be seduced.
    That's the key thing. Boris is blooming good at seduction. His life story has been all about behaving in ways that get him the girl or the job. What he's been much less good at is behaving in ways that let him keep the girl or the job.

    Now we all get to see if this time is any different.
    He kept his job as mayor of London for two terms, in a very Labour city, because he was seen as a good mayor. Which he was.
    Delegation. That's the key. By and large, Boris left in place most of the managers he inherited from Ken, although he also recruited some deputy mayors to do the day job.

    That was before Boris met Dominic Cummings. The Cummings doctrine assumes incumbent professionals are incompetent, lazy and hostile, and existing systems obsolete. Whether Boris can handle permanent revolution in Whitehall is yet to be seen.
    Amazingly, that’s what we all think of him as well.

    At least we are two-thirds right, whereas he’s just completely wrong.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 94,460

    John Harris in Redcar in 2015 with the Conservative candidate.

    He came fourth.

    Four years later he is the MP.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekR3yZlWQ-

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/may/04/anger-apathy-hope-great-british-election-diary

    Here is the video, I couldn’t get it to work on the link.
    Thanks - I see the Guardian have changed their polite request for contributions at the end of the articles to reference the horror of us being governed by Boris Johnson for five years, and the need for quality journalism as a result, so perhaps like leadership contests for Labour Boris Johnson will be good for their coffers.
This discussion has been closed.