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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The Leave seat with a miniscule LAB majority that didn’t fall

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    kle4kle4 Posts: 93,302

    Charles said:

    I totally oppose foxhunting and all cruelty to animals.

    Maugham needs to be investigated for animal cruelty.

    From the Mail, the fox was caught in electric netting. Presumably scared and in pain.
    It's one of the most bizarre things I've ever read. The bloke seems deranged. He's clearly swallowed his own hype, boasting about it and thinking that he needs to post on twitter everything he does, believing his hashtag gang will lap it up. Clearly Brexit has sent him insane.
    Yes - I couldn't quite believe it at first. I assumed it was some deeply ironic (and made up) story that was having a dig at all the Boxing Day hunts.
    Yes, I confess when I saw it, before it blew up, it never even crossed my mind that it was not parodying people celebrating being out on the hunt.
  • Options
    BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,489
    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    I totally oppose foxhunting and all cruelty to animals.

    Maugham needs to be investigated for animal cruelty.

    From the Mail, the fox was caught in electric netting. Presumably scared and in pain.
    It's one of the most bizarre things I've ever read. The bloke seems deranged. He's clearly swallowed his own hype, boasting about it and thinking that he needs to post on twitter everything he does, believing his hashtag gang will lap it up. Clearly Brexit has sent him insane.
    Yes - I couldn't quite believe it at first. I assumed it was some deeply ironic (and made up) story that was having a dig at all the Boxing Day hunts.
    Yes, I confess when I saw it, before it blew up, it never even crossed my mind that it was not parodying people celebrating being out on the hunt.
    That was my initial reaction too!!
  • Options
    Reading Viewcode's list makes you realise how fragile our health and lives are - wishing all PBc contributors and lurkers a very rude and healthy 2020.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 93,302

    Charles said:

    I totally oppose foxhunting and all cruelty to animals.

    Maugham needs to be investigated for animal cruelty.

    From the Mail, the fox was caught in electric netting. Presumably scared and in pain.
    It's one of the most bizarre things I've ever read. The bloke seems deranged. He's clearly swallowed his own hype, boasting about it and thinking that he needs to post on twitter everything he does, believing his hashtag gang will lap it up. Clearly Brexit has sent him insane.
    And if people want to get dressed up in their finery and chase a drag trail across the fields, then who are we to stop them?
    .
    The suspicion that arises when people do get dressed up in their finery is that it is not a necessary task carried out in the most efficient way possible, but them having a jolly good time using the excuse of necessity. I have no reason to disbelieve that pest control is necessary. I can even believe, though do not know, that perhaps the way it is done really is the most efficient way of undertaking that pest control. But that everyone should get ponced up for it causes me to have doubts about that, not least because some of the advocates of the practice have a rather silly habit of ascribing human characteristics of villainy onto foxes as a means of justification, when a non emotive pest control argument is a lot more effective.
  • Options
    ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578

    Charles said:

    I totally oppose foxhunting and all cruelty to animals.

    Maugham needs to be investigated for animal cruelty.

    From the Mail, the fox was caught in electric netting. Presumably scared and in pain.
    It's one of the most bizarre things I've ever read. The bloke seems deranged. He's clearly swallowed his own hype, boasting about it and thinking that he needs to post on twitter everything he does, believing his hashtag gang will lap it up. Clearly Brexit has sent him insane.
    Yes - I couldn't quite believe it at first. I assumed it was some deeply ironic (and made up) story that was having a dig at all the Boxing Day hunts. Then it turned out to be true, and he is simply a twitterholic imbecile.

    By the way, as a livestock owner and rural-dweller for the vast majority of my life, I will probably diverge from many of you on here.

    I am an advocate of culling foxes for reasons of pest control - much like rats, rabbits, etc. Shooting, trapping and poisoning are risky, indiscriminate and can cause more harm and distress than hunting with dogs. I would agree that hunting as a sport is unacceptable - but flushing out with hounds to be shot (as allowed by the current law) seems to me to be a reasonable approach to a fiendishly difficult and emotive issue. For clarity, I neither ride nor hunt myself.

    And if people want to get dressed up in their finery and chase a drag trail across the fields, then who are we to stop them?

    I am bemused that hunting seems to cause so much angst to so many people, when fishing doesn't, nor for that matter the ridiculous practice of keeping carnivorous animals indoors in unnatural conditions. I would hazard that far more welfare harm is caused in absolute terms by keeping dogs in poor domestic conditions than the culling of foxes.
    That's very fair, and I basically agree. I've seen lamping (the alternative to hunting) and it is equally unpretty. You get lots of horribly injured foxes, loping off to die, god knows where, for many hours.

    But it's a long long way from what Maugham did.

    36 hours later I still can't get my head around his mentality.

    There's a fox trapped at the end of your garden. You suspect he has been menacing your chickens. It is Boxing Day Morning.

    So what do you do? You are naked. You put on.... your wife's kimono (just as you did a month before in the same situation, when the fox got away). You then pick up your baseball bat hoping to get the chance (which you didn't last time) to get close to this trapped wild animal.... so you can smash its brains out.

    That is exactly what he did. What normal grown man does that?

    AND THEN HE TWEETED ABOUT IT, EXPECTING PRAISE
  • Options

    John Harris in Redcar in 2015 with the Conservative candidate.

    He came fourth.

    Four years later he is the MP.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekR3yZlWQ-

    Corrected link

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekR3yZlWQ-s
  • Options
    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    I totally oppose foxhunting and all cruelty to animals.

    Maugham needs to be investigated for animal cruelty.

    From the Mail, the fox was caught in electric netting. Presumably scared and in pain.
    It's one of the most bizarre things I've ever read. The bloke seems deranged. He's clearly swallowed his own hype, boasting about it and thinking that he needs to post on twitter everything he does, believing his hashtag gang will lap it up. Clearly Brexit has sent him insane.
    And if people want to get dressed up in their finery and chase a drag trail across the fields, then who are we to stop them?
    .
    The suspicion that arises when people do get dressed up in their finery is that it is not a necessary task carried out in the most efficient way possible, but them having a jolly good time using the excuse of necessity. I have no reason to disbelieve that pest control is necessary. I can even believe, though do not know, that perhaps the way it is done really is the most efficient way of undertaking that pest control. But that everyone should get ponced up for it causes me to have doubts about that, not least because some of the advocates of the practice have a rather silly habit of ascribing human characteristics of villainy onto foxes as a means of justification, when a non emotive pest control argument is a lot more effective.
    I agree that that it is not a sport and that is unacceptable. But the overwhelming majority of hunts yesterday were simple drag hunts. So what if folk wish to get dressed up to do that? There were getting their enjoyment from riding across the countryside, and many of them simply form trying to keep up with the better riders in the red jackets.

    Lots of people get dressed up for the most silly of reasons - from Lord Mayors' dinners to Morris dancing, to Christmas jumper day in the office. It's one of the things I like about being British.

    You'll notice I didn't ascribe anthropomorphic characteristics to the fox ion my argument - despite having seen the devastating effect of a fox attack on lambs and poultry a number of times. It's a pest that needs controlling like any other.
  • Options
    Byronic said:

    Charles said:

    I totally oppose foxhunting and all cruelty to animals.

    Maugham needs to be investigated for animal cruelty.

    From the Mail, the fox was caught in electric netting. Presumably scared and in pain.
    And if people want to get dressed up in their finery and chase a drag trail across the fields, then who are we to stop them?

    I am bemused that hunting seems to cause so much angst to so many people, when fishing doesn't, nor for that matter the ridiculous practice of keeping carnivorous animals indoors in unnatural conditions. I would hazard that far more welfare harm is caused in absolute terms by keeping dogs in poor domestic conditions than the culling of foxes.
    That's very fair, and I basically agree. I've seen lamping (the alternative to hunting) and it is equally unpretty. You get lots of horribly injured foxes, loping off to die, god knows where, for many hours.

    But it's a long long way from what Maugham did.

    36 hours later I still can't get my head around his mentality.

    There's a fox trapped at the end of your garden. You suspect he has been menacing your chickens. It is Boxing Day Morning.

    So what do you do? You are naked. You put on.... your wife's kimono (just as you did a month before in the same situation, when the fox got away). You then pick up your baseball bat hoping to get the chance (which you didn't last time) to get close to this trapped wild animal.... so you can smash its brains out.

    That is exactly what he did. What normal grown man does that?

    AND THEN HE TWEETED ABOUT IT, EXPECTING PRAISE
    It's the tweeting I can't make sense of. Almost glorying in the drama of it. Just wrong on every level.

    To be honest though, if there is a fox trapped mid-attack then the quickest and most humane way to dispatch it without further injury to it or other animals (or humans) may well have been a quick blow to the head.

    But we are really straying onto areas where it is very easy to be misunderstood and I'm not a monster (!) I think I will duck out of further comment now having at least put the alternative view on the issue.

  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,382
    edited December 2019
    Byronic said:


    Yes - I couldn't quite believe it at first. I assumed it was some deeply ironic (and made up) story that was having a dig at all the Boxing Day hunts. Then it turned out to be true, and he is simply a twitterholic imbecile.

    By the way, as a livestock owner and rural-dweller for the vast majority of my life, I will probably diverge from many of you on here.

    I am an advocate of culling foxes for reasons of pest control - much like rats, rabbits, etc. Shooting, trapping and poisoning are risky, indiscriminate and can cause more harm and distress than hunting with dogs. I would agree that hunting as a sport is unacceptable - but flushing out with hounds to be shot (as allowed by the current law) seems to me to be a reasonable approach to a fiendishly difficult and emotive issue. For clarity, I neither ride nor hunt myself.

    And if people want to get dressed up in their finery and chase a drag trail across the fields, then who are we to stop them?

    I am bemused that hunting seems to cause so much angst to so many people, when fishing doesn't, nor for that matter the ridiculous practice of keeping carnivorous animals indoors in unnatural conditions. I would hazard that far more welfare harm is caused in absolute terms by keeping dogs in poor domestic conditions than the culling of foxes.

    That's very fair, and I basically agree. I've seen lamping (the alternative to hunting) and it is equally unpretty. You get lots of horribly injured foxes, loping off to die, god knows where, for many hours.

    But it's a long long way from what Maugham did.

    36 hours later I still can't get my head around his mentality.

    There's a fox trapped at the end of your garden. You suspect he has been menacing your chickens. It is Boxing Day Morning.

    So what do you do? You are naked. You put on.... your wife's kimono (just as you did a month before in the same situation, when the fox got away). You then pick up your baseball bat hoping to get the chance (which you didn't last time) to get close to this trapped wild animal.... so you can smash its brains out.

    That is exactly what he did. What normal grown man does that?

    AND THEN HE TWEETED ABOUT IT, EXPECTING PRAISE
    He's not a normal grown man.

    He's a lawyer and a meddler in politics - both of which are adversarial - so boasting about bashing the head in of an enemy might be 'normal' to him.

    He's also someone who's become use to an adoring twatter fanclub.

    And with such things there's always a need to become ever more extreme to keep the attention.
  • Options
    kle4 said:

    John Harris in Redcar in 2015 with the Conservative candidate.

    He came fourth.

    Four years later he is the MP.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekR3yZlWQ-

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/may/04/anger-apathy-hope-great-british-election-diary

    Here is the video, I couldn’t get it to work on the link.
    Thanks - I see the Guardian have changed their polite request for contributions at the end of the articles to reference the horror of us being governed by Boris Johnson for five years, and the need for quality journalism as a result, so perhaps like leadership contests for Labour Boris Johnson will be good for their coffers.
    It’s always something to keep the vanity publishing continuing. What’s interesting about the anywhere but Westminster is the hollowing out of labour support in first the south east, Scotland and now the north east. How this eroding of class based labour voting has been happening way before the Brexit referendum and before Jeremy Corbyn, but it seems both Brexit and Jeremy have showed how the modern Labour Party is a metropolitan party more concerned with pronouns than with helping people into work.
  • Options

    kle4 said:

    John Harris in Redcar in 2015 with the Conservative candidate.

    He came fourth.

    Four years later he is the MP.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekR3yZlWQ-

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/may/04/anger-apathy-hope-great-british-election-diary

    Here is the video, I couldn’t get it to work on the link.
    Thanks - I see the Guardian have changed their polite request for contributions at the end of the articles to reference the horror of us being governed by Boris Johnson for five years, and the need for quality journalism as a result, so perhaps like leadership contests for Labour Boris Johnson will be good for their coffers.
    It’s always something to keep the vanity publishing continuing. What’s interesting about the anywhere but Westminster is the hollowing out of labour support in first the south east, Scotland and now the north east. How this eroding of class based labour voting has been happening way before the Brexit referendum and before Jeremy Corbyn, but it seems both Brexit and Jeremy have showed how the modern Labour Party is a metropolitan party more concerned with pronouns than with helping people into work.
    As PB's Sandy has said the Labour party has become obsessed with the top 10% and the bottom 10%.

    The 80% in the middle has become hollowed out.
  • Options
    ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578

    Byronic said:

    Charles said:

    I totally oppose foxhunting and all cruelty to animals.

    Maugham needs to be investigated for animal cruelty.

    From the Mail, the fox was caught in electric netting. Presumably scared and in pain.
    And if peopsolute terms by keeping dogs in poor domestic conditions than the culling of foxes.
    That's ING PRAISE
    It's the tweeting I can't make sense of. Almost glorying in the drama of it. Just wrong on every level.

    To be honest though, if there is a fox trapped mid-attack then the quickest and most humane way to dispatch it without further injury to it or other animals (or humans) may well have been a quick blow to the head.

    But we are really straying onto areas where it is very easy to be misunderstood and I'm not a monster (!) I think I will duck out of further comment now having at least put the alternative view on the issue.

    But the point is he had tweeted about doing this before, in November. He heard a noise, thought a chicken was taken, so he went outside with his trusty baseball bat, again dressed only in his wife's undersized kimono

    This last detail is just mind boggling.

    If his wife's kimono is "undersized" (his words, not mine) why the F does he keep borrowing it for his fox-smashing expeditions?!?! Does he like to flash the neighbours as he swings the cudgel?

    Then six weeks later the same thing happens, but this time the fox is helpless and trapped. So again he puts on his wife's kimono (???), and he grabs his bat, and this time he finally gets his chance to bludgeon the fox to death.

    Then he does a boastful tweet about it.

    There is almost too much to unpack here, but I would hazard a guess that he is exhibitionistic, with a sadistic streak, and he gets a weird sexual kick out of flashing in life and in Twitter, for being seen as a real man, as he "hunts". And yes I reckon he slightly enjoyed smashing the fox, hence the gloating tweet.

    His tweet will go down in social media history as one of the most ill advised of the century.

    And now, to work. Later, PB!
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 26,020
    We cannot describe foxes as cruel. But vicious is more a description of behaviour than motivation. And is probably as appropriate a description as anything else.
  • Options

    kle4 said:

    John Harris in Redcar in 2015 with the Conservative candidate.

    He came fourth.

    Four years later he is the MP.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekR3yZlWQ-

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/may/04/anger-apathy-hope-great-british-election-diary

    Here is the video, I couldn’t get it to work on the link.
    Thanks - I see the Guardian have changed their polite request for contributions at the end of the articles to reference the horror of us being governed by Boris Johnson for five years, and the need for quality journalism as a result, so perhaps like leadership contests for Labour Boris Johnson will be good for their coffers.
    It’s always something to keep the vanity publishing continuing. What’s interesting about the anywhere but Westminster is the hollowing out of labour support in first the south east, Scotland and now the north east. How this eroding of class based labour voting has been happening way before the Brexit referendum and before Jeremy Corbyn, but it seems both Brexit and Jeremy have showed how the modern Labour Party is a metropolitan party more concerned with pronouns than with helping people into work.
    I think there is a high chance the party will split as a result of the leadership election and the GE result - almost certain if RLB or another Corbynite wins.

    It ceased being the party of the working class a couple of decades ago. It became (and still is) a party of the poor, without a plan to lift them from poverty through work. The rest of it is largely a party of patronising metropolitan gesture politics.

    Until or unless they find a unifying common cause and an answer to modern Britain's problems, then they will continue to be irrelevant and those dichotomous tensions will surely burst.

  • Options
    Byronic said:

    Byronic said:

    Charles said:

    I totally oppose foxhunting and all cruelty to animals.

    Maugham needs to be investigated for animal cruelty.

    From the Mail, the fox was caught in electric netting. Presumably scared and in pain.
    And if peopsolute terms by keeping dogs in poor domestic conditions than the culling of foxes.
    That's ING PRAISE
    It's the tweeting I can't make sense of. Almost glorying in the drama of it. Just wrong on every level.

    To be honest though, if there is a fox trapped mid-attack then the quickest and most humane way to dispatch it without further injury to it or other animals (or humans) may well have been a quick blow to the head.

    But we are really straying onto areas where it is very easy to be misunderstood and I'm not a monster (!) I think I will duck out of further comment now having at least put the alternative view on the issue.

    But the point is he had tweeted about doing this before, in November. He heard a noise, thought a chicken was taken, so he went outside with his trusty baseball bat, again dressed only in his wife's undersized kimono

    This last detail is just mind boggling.

    If his wife's kimono is "undersized" (his words, not mine) why the F does he keep borrowing it for his fox-smashing expeditions?!?! Does he like to flash the neighbours as he swings the cudgel?

    Then six weeks later the same thing happens, but this time the fox is helpless and trapped. So again he puts on his wife's kimono (???), and he grabs his bat, and this time he finally gets his chance to bludgeon the fox to death.

    Then he does a boastful tweet about it.

    There is almost too much to unpack here, but I would hazard a guess that he is exhibitionistic, with a sadistic streak, and he gets a weird sexual kick out of flashing in life and in Twitter, for being seen as a real man, as he "hunts". And yes I reckon he slightly enjoyed smashing the fox, hence the gloating tweet.

    His tweet will go down in social media history as one of the most ill advised of the century.

    And now, to work. Later, PB!
    I suspect he is not well. That is the most charitable interpretation we can give.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,686
    Byronic said:


    That's very fair, and I basically agree. I've seen lamping (the alternative to hunting) and it is equally unpretty. You get lots of horribly injured foxes, loping off to die, god knows where, for many hours.

    But it's a long long way from what Maugham did.

    36 hours later I still can't get my head around his mentality.

    There's a fox trapped at the end of your garden. You suspect he has been menacing your chickens. It is Boxing Day Morning.

    So what do you do? You are naked. You put on.... your wife's kimono (just as you did a month before in the same situation, when the fox got away). You then pick up your baseball bat hoping to get the chance (which you didn't last time) to get close to this trapped wild animal.... so you can smash its brains out.

    That is exactly what he did. What normal grown man does that?

    AND THEN HE TWEETED ABOUT IT, EXPECTING PRAISE

    Brexit derangement syndrome has led him to believe that he can do no wrong in the eyes of his remainer sycophants. I'm sure those same people who condemn animal cruelty will vociferously swear fealty to him when he starts his next idiot lawsuit. Same as those who are purportedly against bullying supporting Bercow because he tried to stop brexit.
  • Options
    nunu2nunu2 Posts: 1,453
    Byronic said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    I totally oppose foxhunting and all cruelty to animals.

    Maugham needs to be investigated for animal cruelty.

    You are the only tory on here not to indulge in vice signalling on the matter so respect for that.
    Well foxes should be killed as they are cruel and vicious to other animals
    FFS Foxes are not "cruel" or "vicious". This is anthropomorphising. It is the fallacy of an imbecile.

    Animals do not have higher human desires, let alone a sense of morality they can knowingly infringe.
    https://mobile.twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1210527448539881472

    Let's crowdfund this.
  • Options
    nunu2 said:

    Byronic said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    I totally oppose foxhunting and all cruelty to animals.

    Maugham needs to be investigated for animal cruelty.

    You are the only tory on here not to indulge in vice signalling on the matter so respect for that.
    Well foxes should be killed as they are cruel and vicious to other animals
    FFS Foxes are not "cruel" or "vicious". This is anthropomorphising. It is the fallacy of an imbecile.

    Animals do not have higher human desires, let alone a sense of morality they can knowingly infringe.
    https://mobile.twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1210527448539881472

    Let's crowdfund this.
    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1210571027618484226?s=20
  • Options
    nunu2nunu2 Posts: 1,453
    Jonathan said:

    Byronic said:

    Barnesian said:

    RobD said:

    MattW said:

    Barnesian said:

    kle4 said:

    Barnesian said:

    IanB2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Hopefully Bedford gets left out of the new funding model being put together by the treasury.

    It's going to be interesting to see how Labour react to money being diverted to their former heartlands and the expense of the their new inner city ones. Do they support it as a necessary measure to fix inequality or they stand up for their new middle class voters?

    The likely rebalancing away from London is ironic with the PM a former mayor of the capital.
    I think the more ignorant the electorate was of Johnson's character and track record, the better the Tories did.
    How ignorant could people possibly be, we heard little else from his opponents, for good reason.
    We heard very little about his track record as Mayor (except what he said), as Foreign Secretary, being fired for lying as a journalist etc and it wouldn't cut through anyway.

    To your average northern working class bloke, he was good ol' Boris, getting Brexit sorted, offering goodies and making them smile.
    Yoou sound horribly patronising, there.

    Around here, it was more like "not voting for the undermining democracy, piss-it-all-away party". People here know about debt and how long it takes to escape from it.
    The voters were too stupid to understand who they were voting for, clearly.
    They aren't stupid - not at all. But they were seduced. You don't have to be stupid to be seduced.
    That's the key thing. Boris is blooming good at seduction. His life story has been all about behaving in ways that get him the girl or the job. What he's been much less good at is behaving in ways that let him keep the girl or the job.

    Now we all get to see if this time is any different.
    He kept his job as mayor of London for two terms, in a very Labour city, because he was seen as a good mayor. Which he was.
    He was up against Livingstone, who was a busted flush. If he had been up against a fresh Labour candidate he may well have lost. He was not seen as that great, although the history books are clearly now being rewritten.
    I'm sorry but this is simply wrong. Ken at the time was seen as a great candidate and the best at beating Boris, he had a huge personal vote, any generic Labour candidate would have been crushed by Boris.

    Boris is still underestimated by the left. More fool them.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 68,280

    nunu2 said:

    Byronic said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    I totally oppose foxhunting and all cruelty to animals.

    Maugham needs to be investigated for animal cruelty.

    You are the only tory on here not to indulge in vice signalling on the matter so respect for that.
    Well foxes should be killed as they are cruel and vicious to other animals
    FFS Foxes are not "cruel" or "vicious". This is anthropomorphising. It is the fallacy of an imbecile.

    Animals do not have higher human desires, let alone a sense of morality they can knowingly infringe.
    https://mobile.twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1210527448539881472

    Let's crowdfund this.
    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1210571027618484226?s=20
    Bit rich of Staines, given he has in the past criticised Robertson and Farron for failing to support the repeal of the ban on fox hunting.
  • Options
    nunu2nunu2 Posts: 1,453
    edited December 2019

    John Harris in Redcar in 2015 with the Conservative candidate.

    He came fourth.

    Four years later he is the MP.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekR3yZlWQ-

    Corrected link

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekR3yZlWQ-s
    Redcar and Burnley, are both towns that tell the story of what happens when the bonds the working class have with the unions are broken.

    Like Scotland.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 77,641
    edited December 2019
    ydoethur said:

    nunu2 said:

    Byronic said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    I totally oppose foxhunting and all cruelty to animals.

    Maugham needs to be investigated for animal cruelty.

    You are the only tory on here not to indulge in vice signalling on the matter so respect for that.
    Well foxes should be killed as they are cruel and vicious to other animals
    FFS Foxes are not "cruel" or "vicious". This is anthropomorphising. It is the fallacy of an imbecile.

    Animals do not have higher human desires, let alone a sense of morality they can knowingly infringe.
    https://mobile.twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1210527448539881472

    Let's crowdfund this.
    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1210571027618484226?s=20
    Bit rich of Staines, given he has in the past criticised Robertson and Farron for failing to support the repeal of the ban on fox hunting.
    Brexit, Boris and Trump derangement syndrome isn't all on one side. It has turned some people into seeing the enemy of my enemy is my friend type stuff.
  • Options
    kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,270

    Byronic said:



    That's very fair, and I basically agree. I've seen lamping (the alternative to hunting) and it is equally unpretty. You get lots of horribly injured foxes, loping off to die, god knows where, for many hours.

    But it's a long long way from what Maugham did.

    36 hours later I still can't get my head around his mentality.

    There's a fox trapped at the end of your garden. You suspect he has been menacing your chickens. It is Boxing Day Morning.

    So what do you do? You are naked. You put on.... your wife's kimono (just as you did a month before in the same situation, when the fox got away). You then pick up your baseball bat hoping to get the chance (which you didn't last time) to get close to this trapped wild animal.... so you can smash its brains out.

    That is exactly what he did. What normal grown man does that?

    AND THEN HE TWEETED ABOUT IT, EXPECTING PRAISE

    He's not a normal grown man.

    He's a lawyer and a meddler in politics - both of which are adversarial - so boasting about bashing the head in of an enemy might be 'normal' to him.

    He's also someone who's become use to an adoring twatter fanclub.

    And with such things there's always a need to become ever more extreme to keep the attention.
    Foxes are pests and the correct way to deal with them when they are half trapped and (if Maugham is to be believed) two feet away from livestock and causing them significant distress, is to kill the pest as quickly and as humanely as possible. In this circumstance waiting longer for a more "humane" method would have likely caused all the animals involved much greater distress.

    Tweeting about it was a monumental lapse of judgement however. Whatever else you think about David Cameron, you have to admit, he got it dead right about Twitter.
  • Options
    nunu2 said:

    John Harris in Redcar in 2015 with the Conservative candidate.

    He came fourth.

    Four years later he is the MP.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekR3yZlWQ-

    Corrected link

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekR3yZlWQ-s
    Redcar and Burnley, are both towns that tell the story of what happens when the bonds the working class have with the unions are broken.

    Like Scotland.
    Or the Union even.
  • Options
    ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    nunu2 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Byronic said:

    Barnesian said:

    RobD said:

    MattW said:

    Barnesian said:

    kle4 said:

    Barnesian said:

    IanB2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Hopefully Bedford gets left out of the new funding model being put together by the treasury.

    It's going to be intity or they stand up for their new middle class voters?

    The likely rebalancing away from London is ironic with the PM a former mayor of the capital.
    I think the more ignorant the electorate was of Johnson's character and track record, the better the Tories did.
    How ignorant could people possibly be, we heard little else from his opponents, for good reason.
    We heard ve, he was good ol' Boris, getting Brexit sorted, offering goodies and making them smile.
    Yoou sound horribly patronising, there.

    Around here, it was more like "not voting for the undermining democracy, piss-it-all-away party". People here know about debt and how long it takes to escape from it.
    The voters were too stupid to understand who they were voting for, clearly.
    They aren't stupid - not at all. But they were seduced. You don't have to be stupid to be seduced.
    That's the is any different.
    He kept his job as mayor of London for two terms, in a very Labour city, because he was seen as a good mayor. Which he was.
    He was up against Livingstone, who was a busted flush. If he had been up against a fresh Labour candidate he may well have lost. He was not seen as that great, although the history books are clearly now being rewritten.
    I'm sorry but this is simply wrong. Ken at the time was seen as a great candidate and the best at beating Boris, he had a huge personal vote, any generic Labour candidate would have been crushed by Boris.

    Boris is still underestimated by the left. More fool them.
    Yep. The rewriting of history is being done by the Left. Ken was very popular in Labour circles, across London.

    Boris beat him, twice, against the national swing.

    Boris has now won two London mayoralties, a national referendum, and the Tories' biggest general election victory in more than forty years. He is, electorally, the most successful Tory politician since Thatcher at least, and maybe the best of the last 100 years.

    If anyone can deliver a reasonable Brexit, it is him. He knows how to win.


  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 77,641
    edited December 2019
    Byronic said:


    Yep. The rewriting of history is being done by the Left. Ken was very popular in Labour circles, across London.

    Boris beat him, twice, against the national swing.

    Boris has now won two London mayoralties, a national referendum, and the Tories' biggest general election victory in more than forty years. He is, electorally, the most successful Tory politician since Thatcher at least, and maybe the best of the last 100 years.

    If anyone can deliver a reasonable Brexit, it is him. He knows how to win.


    The funniest part of Boris vs Ken, was when Red Ken went big on Boris releasing his tax returns. Not banking on Boris being so lazy and unorganised he hadn't bothered to take any common sense steps to making his freelance work tax efficient, while Red Ken appeared to have taken the legal advice from the sort of people who do Starbucks type tax planning work.
  • Options
    glwglw Posts: 9,595

    Byronic said:


    Yep. The rewriting of history is being done by the Left. Ken was very popular in Labour circles, across London.

    Boris beat him, twice, against the national swing.

    Boris has now won two London mayoralties, a national referendum, and the Tories' biggest general election victory in more than forty years. He is, electorally, the most successful Tory politician since Thatcher at least, and maybe the best of the last 100 years.

    If anyone can deliver a reasonable Brexit, it is him. He knows how to win.


    The funniest part of Boris vs Ken, was when Red Ken went big on Boris releasing his tax returns. Not banking on Boris being so lazy and unorganised he hadn't bothered to take any common sense steps to making his freelance work tax efficient, while Red Ken appeared to have taken the legal advice from the sort of people who do Starbucks type tax planning work.
    Didn't Ken also earn more than Boris?
  • Options
    ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    kyf_100 said:

    Byronic said:



    That's very fair, and I basically agree. I've seen lamping (the alternative to hunting) and it is equally unpretty. You get lots of horribly injured foxes, loping off to die, god knows where, for many hours.

    But it's a long long way from what Maugham did.

    36 hours later I still can't get my head around his mentality.

    There's a fox trapped at the end of your garden. You suspect he has been menacing your chickens. It is Boxing Day Morning.

    So what do you do? You are naked. You put on.... your wife's kimono (just as you did a month before in the same situation, when the fox got away). You then pick up your baseball bat hoping to get the chance (which you didn't last time) to get close to this trapped wild animal.... so you can smash its brains out.

    That is exactly what he did. What normal grown man does that?

    AND THEN HE TWEETED ABOUT IT, EXPECTING PRAISE

    He's not a normal grown man.

    He's a lawyer and a meddler in politics - both of which are adversarial - so boasting about bashing the head in of an enemy might be 'normal' to him.

    He's also someone who's become use to an adoring twatter fanclub.

    And with such things there's always a need to become ever more extreme to keep the attention.
    Foxes are pests and the correct way to deal with them when they are half trapped and (if Maugham is to be believed) two feet away from livestock and causing them significant distress, is to kill the pest as quickly and as humanely as possible. In this circumstance waiting longer for a more "humane" method would have likely caused all the animals involved much greater distress.

    Tweeting about it was a monumental lapse of judgement however. Whatever else you think about David Cameron, you have to admit, he got it dead right about Twitter.
    ... And his wife's undersized kimono? Which he likes to wear when he gets the bat to go fox hammering? How about his wife's undersized kimono?
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,362
    glw said:

    Byronic said:


    Yep. The rewriting of history is being done by the Left. Ken was very popular in Labour circles, across London.

    Boris beat him, twice, against the national swing.

    Boris has now won two London mayoralties, a national referendum, and the Tories' biggest general election victory in more than forty years. He is, electorally, the most successful Tory politician since Thatcher at least, and maybe the best of the last 100 years.

    If anyone can deliver a reasonable Brexit, it is him. He knows how to win.


    The funniest part of Boris vs Ken, was when Red Ken went big on Boris releasing his tax returns. Not banking on Boris being so lazy and unorganised he hadn't bothered to take any common sense steps to making his freelance work tax efficient, while Red Ken appeared to have taken the legal advice from the sort of people who do Starbucks type tax planning work.
    Didn't Ken also earn more than Boris?
    Almost certainly. Whether either actually earned what they got is debatable.!
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 64,113
    Byronic said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Byronic said:



    That's very fair, and I basically agree. I've seen lamping (the alternative to hunting) and it is equally unpretty. You get lots of horribly injured foxes, loping off to die, god knows where, for many hours.

    But it's a long long way from what Maugham did.

    36 hours later I still can't get my head around his mentality.

    There's a fox trapped at the end of your garden. You suspect he has been menacing your chickens. It is Boxing Day Morning.

    So what do you do? You are naked. You put on.... your wife's kimono (just as you did a month before in the same situation, when the fox got away). You then pick up your baseball bat hoping to get the chance (which you didn't last time) to get close to this trapped wild animal.... so you can smash its brains out.

    That is exactly what he did. What normal grown man does that?

    AND THEN HE TWEETED ABOUT IT, EXPECTING PRAISE

    He's not a normal grown man.

    He's a lawyer and a meddler in politics - both of which are adversarial - so boasting about bashing the head in of an enemy might be 'normal' to him.

    He's also someone who's become use to an adoring twatter fanclub.

    And with such things there's always a need to become ever more extreme to keep the attention.
    Foxes are pests and the correct way to deal with them when they are half trapped and (if Maugham is to be believed) two feet away from livestock and causing them significant distress, is to kill the pest as quickly and as humanely as possible. In this circumstance waiting longer for a more "humane" method would have likely caused all the animals involved much greater distress.

    Tweeting about it was a monumental lapse of judgement however. Whatever else you think about David Cameron, you have to admit, he got it dead right about Twitter.
    ... And his wife's undersized kimono? Which he likes to wear when he gets the bat to go fox hammering? How about his wife's undersized kimono?
    Yeah. Can’t the bastard buy his wife a kimono that fits ?
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,362
    $ Saffir second innings wickets down now!
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 68,280
    Nigelb said:

    Byronic said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Byronic said:



    That's very fair, and I basically agree. I've seen lamping (the alternative to hunting) and it is equally unpretty. You get lots of horribly injured foxes, loping off to die, god knows where, for many hours.

    But it's a long long way from what Maugham did.

    36 hours later I still can't get my head around his mentality.

    There's a fox trapped at the end of your garden. You suspect he has been menacing your chickens. It is Boxing Day Morning.

    So what do you do? You are naked. You put on.... your wife's kimono (just as you did a month before in the same situation, when the fox got away). You then pick up your baseball bat hoping to get the chance (which you didn't last time) to get close to this trapped wild animal.... so you can smash its brains out.

    That is exactly what he did. What normal grown man does that?

    AND THEN HE TWEETED ABOUT IT, EXPECTING PRAISE

    He's not a normal grown man.

    He's a lawyer and a meddler in politics - both of which are adversarial - so boasting about bashing the head in of an enemy might be 'normal' to him.

    He's also someone who's become use to an adoring twatter fanclub.

    And with such things there's always a need to become ever more extreme to keep the attention.
    Foxes are pests and the correct way to deal with them when they are half trapped and (if Maugham is to be believed) two feet away from livestock and causing them significant distress, is to kill the pest as quickly and as humanely as possible. In this circumstance waiting longer for a more "humane" method would have likely caused all the animals involved much greater distress.

    Tweeting about it was a monumental lapse of judgement however. Whatever else you think about David Cameron, you have to admit, he got it dead right about Twitter.
    ... And his wife's undersized kimono? Which he likes to wear when he gets the bat to go fox hammering? How about his wife's undersized kimono?
    Yeah. Can’t the bastard buy his wife a kimono that fits ?
    He’s being given a dressing down...
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,362
    Nigelb said:

    Byronic said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Byronic said:



    That's very fair, and I basically agree. I've seen lamping (the alternative to hunting) and it is equally unpretty. You get lots of horribly injured foxes, loping off to die, god knows where, for many hours.

    But it's a long long way from what Maugham did.

    36 hours later I still can't get my head around his mentality.

    There's a fox trapped at the end of your garden. You suspect he has been menacing your chickens. It is Boxing Day Morning.

    So what do you do? You are naked. You put on.... your wife's kimono (just as you did a month before in the same situation, when the fox got away). You then pick up your baseball bat hoping to get the chance (which you didn't last time) to get close to this trapped wild animal.... so you can smash its brains out.

    That is exactly what he did. What normal grown man does that?

    AND THEN HE TWEETED ABOUT IT, EXPECTING PRAISE

    He's not a normal grown man.

    He's a lawyer and a meddler in politics - both of which are adversarial - so boasting about bashing the head in of an enemy might be 'normal' to him.

    He's also someone who's become use to an adoring twatter fanclub.

    And with such things there's always a need to become ever more extreme to keep the attention.
    Foxes are pests and the correct way to deal with them when they are half trapped and (if Maugham is to be believed) two feet away from livestock and causing them significant distress, is to kill the pest as quickly and as humanely as possible. In this circumstance waiting longer for a more "humane" method would have likely caused all the animals involved much greater distress.

    Tweeting about it was a monumental lapse of judgement however. Whatever else you think about David Cameron, you have to admit, he got it dead right about Twitter.
    ... And his wife's undersized kimono? Which he likes to wear when he gets the bat to go fox hammering? How about his wife's undersized kimono?
    Yeah. Can’t the bastard buy his wife a kimono that fits ?
    It might fit her. Or of course he might like......
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 64,113
    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:


    Yeah. Can’t the bastard buy his wife a kimono that fits ?

    He’s being given a dressing down...
    Sounds more like dressing up to me...
  • Options
    FishingFishing Posts: 4,591

    ydoethur said:

    nunu2 said:

    Byronic said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    I totally oppose foxhunting and all cruelty to animals.

    Maugham needs to be investigated for animal cruelty.

    You are the only tory on here not to indulge in vice signalling on the matter so respect for that.
    Well foxes should be killed as they are cruel and vicious to other animals
    FFS Foxes are not "cruel" or "vicious". This is anthropomorphising. It is the fallacy of an imbecile.

    Animals do not have higher human desires, let alone a sense of morality they can knowingly infringe.
    https://mobile.twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1210527448539881472

    Let's crowdfund this.
    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1210571027618484226?s=20
    Bit rich of Staines, given he has in the past criticised Robertson and Farron for failing to support the repeal of the ban on fox hunting.
    Brexit, Boris and Trump derangement syndrome isn't all on one side. It has turned some people into seeing the enemy of my enemy is my friend type stuff.
    I'm not even sure it's that complicated, is it? They both love publicity and will jump on any chance to get their Twatter profiles up.

    For the record, I enjoy Guido as much as the next man. But it is entertainment as much as information.
  • Options
    Byronic said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Byronic said:


    extreme to keep the attention.

    Foxes are pests and the correct way to deal with them when they are half trapped and (if Maugham is to be believed) two feet away from livestock and causing them significant distress, is to kill the pest as quickly and as humanely as possible. In this circumstance waiting longer for a more "humane" method would have likely caused all the animals involved much greater distress.

    Tweeting about it was a monumental lapse of judgement however. Whatever else you think about David Cameron, you have to admit, he got it dead right about Twitter.
    ... And his wife's undersized kimono? Which he likes to wear when he gets the bat to go fox hammering? How about his wife's undersized kimono?
    As others have said, I thought it was a piss take of the regular Boxing Day hunts that go on. I only found out this morning he'd actually done it. In his wife's lingerie. And then boasted about it to his adoring fans. And then hopes it doesn't impact on his forthcoming assault on factory farming that he was planning to do in 2020.
  • Options
    ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    edited December 2019
    Nigelb said:

    Byronic said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Byronic said:



    That's very fT IT, EXPECTING PRAISE

    He's not a normal grown man.

    He's a lawyer and a meddler in politics - both of which are adversarial - so boasting about bashing the head in of an enemy might be 'normal' to him.

    He's also someone who's become use to an adoring twatter fanclub.

    And with such things there's always a need to become ever more extreme to keep the attention.
    Foxes are pests and the correct way to deal with them when they are half trapped and (if Maugham is to be believed) two feet away from livestock and causing them significant distress, is to kill the pest as quickly and as humanely as possible. In this circumstance waiting longer for a more "humane" method would have likely caused all the animals involved much greater distress.

    Tweeting about it was a monumental lapse of judgement however. Whatever else you think about David Cameron, you have to admit, he got it dead right about Twitter.
    ... And his wife's undersized kimono? Which he likes to wear when he gets the bat to go fox hammering? How about his wife's undersized kimono?
    Yeah. Can’t the bastard buy his wife a kimono that fits ?
    I'm picturing the scene Chez Maugham when one of the kids rushes in and says "Dad, the fox is trapped in the fence!"

    What does Jolyon do?

    It's Boxing Day morning and he is naked in bed. So, naturally, he goes to the wardrobe to select some clothes to wear for this nasty and possibly gruesome task. Yes, he chooses his wife's silk kimono. A kimono which he KNOWS is "too short", because he wore it last time he tried to bludgeon the fox. Ooooh.

    The kids are now down by the Christmas tree. The wife is in the shower, washing her hair, oblivious.

    Jolyon takes out the silk kimono, with its exquisite female scent of Chanel. He slips it on, gloating in the way it exposes himself, with every move, especially if he does a kind of bludgeoning action.

    As he heads downstairs he takes up the baseball bat, feeling the silk tingle on his bare pectorals. His arousal is obvious, but who cares.

    That fox is TOAST.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 68,280

    $ Saffir second innings wickets down now!

    How to sort out England in five easy words, as they again stumble to defeat in a winnable test:

    Sorry, it can’t be done.

    However, some energetic steps that could be taken to improve matters:

    1) Relieve Root of the captaincy. There are only two players guaranteed a place with a reasonable number of Tests under their belt, and it would be foolish to overburden Stokes. So make Anderson captain for the moment.

    2) Appoint Burns joint vice captain and groom him for medium-term succession.

    3) Drop Buttler and Bairstow, neither of whom merit a place. Recall Foakes at six and promote Curran to seven.

    4) Sounds harsh, but do unto Broad as was done unto Hoggard, and bring in Ed Barnard to enliven the attack.

    5) Sibley has so far not set the world alight, but deserves more time. However, Bracey and Crawley should now be opening in every Lions match to see if they can step up if necessary. It will also be interesting to see how the only English opener apart from Sibley to top 1000 last season - Chris Dent - goes in Division 1.

    Would that cure all ills? No.

    Might it improve matters? Yes.

    Could they make things worse? Well, no, not really if we’re honest...
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 68,280
    Byronic said:

    Nigelb said:

    Byronic said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Byronic said:



    That's very fT IT, EXPECTING PRAISE

    He's not a normal grown man.

    He's a lawyer and a meddler in politics - both of which are adversarial - so boasting about bashing the head in of an enemy might be 'normal' to him.

    He's also someone who's become use to an adoring twatter fanclub.

    And with such things there's always a need to become ever more extreme to keep the attention.
    Foxes are pests and the correct way to deal with them when they are half trapped and (if Maugham is to be believed) two feet away from livestock and causing them significant distress, is to kill the pest as quickly and as humanely as possible. In this circumstance waiting longer for a more "humane" method would have likely caused all the animals involved much greater distress.

    Tweeting about it was a monumental lapse of judgement however. Whatever else you think about David Cameron, you have to admit, he got it dead right about Twitter.
    ... And his wife's undersized kimono? Which he likes to wear when he gets the bat to go fox hammering? How about his wife's undersized kimono?
    Yeah. Can’t the bastard buy his wife a kimono that fits ?
    I'm picturing the scene Chez Maugham when one of the kids rushes in and says "Dad, the fox is trapped in the fence!"

    What does Jolyon do?

    It's Boxing Day morning and he is naked in bed. So, naturally, he goes to the wardrobe to select some clothes to wear for this nasty and possibly gruesome task. Yes, he chooses his wife's silk kimono. A kimono which he KNOWS is "too short", because he wore it last time he tried to bludgeon the fox. Ooooh.

    The kids are now down by the Christmas tree. The wife is in the shower, washing her hair, oblivious.

    Jolyon takes out the silk kimono, with its exquisite female scent of Chanel. He slips it on, gloating in the way it exposes himself, with every move, especially if he does a kind of bludgeoning action.

    As he heads downstairs he takes up the baseball bat, feeling the silk tingle on his bare pectorals. His arousal is obvious, but who cares.

    That fox is TOAST.
    Have you ever tried writing? That one might qualify for the Bad Sex In Fiction award.
  • Options
    kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,270
    edited December 2019
    Byronic said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Byronic said:



    That's very fair, and I basically agree. I've seen lamping (the alternative to hunting) and it is equally unpretty. You get lots of horribly injured foxes, loping off to die, god knows where, for many hours.

    But it's a long long way from what Maugham did.

    36 hours later I still can't get my head around his mentality.

    There's a fox trapped at the end of your garden. You suspect he has been menacing your chickens. It is Boxing Day Morning.

    So what do you do? You are naked. You put on.... your wife's kimono (just as you did a month before in the same situation, when the fox got away). You then pick up your baseball bat hoping to get the chance (which you didn't last time) to get close to this trapped wild animal.... so you can smash its brains out.

    That is exactly what he did. What normal grown man does that?

    AND THEN HE TWEETED ABOUT IT, EXPECTING PRAISE

    He's not a normal grown man.

    He's a lawyer and a meddler in politics - both of which are adversarial - so boasting about bashing the head in of an enemy might be 'normal' to him.

    He's also someone who's become use to an adoring twatter fanclub.

    And with such things there's always a need to become ever more extreme to keep the attention.
    Foxes are pests and the correct way to deal with them when they are half trapped and (if Maugham is to be believed) two feet away from livestock and causing them significant distress, is to kill the pest as quickly and as humanely as possible. In this circumstance waiting longer for a more "humane" method would have likely caused all the animals involved much greater distress.

    Tweeting about it was a monumental lapse of judgement however. Whatever else you think about David Cameron, you have to admit, he got it dead right about Twitter.
    ... And his wife's undersized kimono? Which he likes to wear when he gets the bat to go fox hammering? How about his wife's undersized kimono?
    I think it's safe to assume he was in such a hurry he donned the first available thing to cover his modesty before stepping outside which implies he was either a) in his underpants or b) absolutely starkers before putting it on.

    Let that image settle for a minute.

    Edit. I have just read Byronic's latest. Oh God. My eyes.
  • Options
    twistedfirestopper3twistedfirestopper3 Posts: 2,186
    edited December 2019
    Maybe Jolyon calls his baseball bat by his wife's name and wraps barbed wire around it.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 64,113
    ydoethur said:

    Byronic said:

    Nigelb said:

    Byronic said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Byronic said:



    That's very fT IT, EXPECTING PRAISE

    He's not a normal grown man.

    He's a lawyer and a meddler in politics - both of which are adversarial - so boasting about bashing the head in of an enemy might be 'normal' to him.

    He's also someone who's become use to an adoring twatter fanclub.

    And with such things there's always a need to become ever more extreme to keep the attention.
    Foxes are pests and the correct way to deal with them when they are half trapped and (if Maugham is to be believed) two feet away from livestock and causing them significant distress, is to kill the pest as quickly and as humanely as possible. In this circumstance waiting longer for a more "humane" method would have likely caused all the animals involved much greater distress.

    Tweeting about it was a monumental lapse of judgement however. Whatever else you think about David Cameron, you have to admit, he got it dead right about Twitter.
    ... And his wife's undersized kimono? Which he likes to wear when he gets the bat to go fox hammering? How about his wife's undersized kimono?
    Yeah. Can’t the bastard buy his wife a kimono that fits ?
    I'm picturing the scene Chez Maugham when one of the kids rushes in and says "Dad, the fox is trapped in the fence!"

    What does Jolyon do?

    It's Boxing Day morning and he is naked in bed. So, naturally, he goes to the wardrobe to select some clothes to wear for this nasty and possibly gruesome task. Yes, he chooses his wife's silk kimono. A kimono which he KNOWS is "too short", because he wore it last time he tried to bludgeon the fox. Ooooh.

    The kids are now down by the Christmas tree. The wife is in the shower, washing her hair, oblivious.

    Jolyon takes out the silk kimono, with its exquisite female scent of Chanel. He slips it on, gloating in the way it exposes himself, with every move, especially if he does a kind of bludgeoning action.

    As he heads downstairs he takes up the baseball bat, feeling the silk tingle on his bare pectorals. His arousal is obvious, but who cares.

    That fox is TOAST.
    Have you ever tried writing? That one might qualify for the Bad Sex In Fiction award.
    No, that one sounds as though it might be written from life....
  • Options
    maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,424

    kle4 said:

    John Harris in Redcar in 2015 with the Conservative candidate.

    He came fourth.

    Four years later he is the MP.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekR3yZlWQ-

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/may/04/anger-apathy-hope-great-british-election-diary

    Here is the video, I couldn’t get it to work on the link.
    Thanks - I see the Guardian have changed their polite request for contributions at the end of the articles to reference the horror of us being governed by Boris Johnson for five years, and the need for quality journalism as a result, so perhaps like leadership contests for Labour Boris Johnson will be good for their coffers.
    It’s always something to keep the vanity publishing continuing. What’s interesting about the anywhere but Westminster is the hollowing out of labour support in first the south east, Scotland and now the north east. How this eroding of class based labour voting has been happening way before the Brexit referendum and before Jeremy Corbyn, but it seems both Brexit and Jeremy have showed how the modern Labour Party is a metropolitan party more concerned with pronouns than with helping people into work.
    As PB's Sandy has said the Labour party has become obsessed with the top 10% and the bottom 10%.

    The 80% in the middle has become hollowed out.
    It's far narrower than 10% either side. If you're not a fat cat or in grinding poverty(relative definition, absolute imagery), they don't think you exist.
  • Options
    ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    kyf_100 said:

    Byronic said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Byronic said:



    That's very fair, and I basically agree. I've seen lamping (the alternative to hunting) and it is equally unpretty. You get lots of horribly injured foxes, loping off to die, god knows where, for many hours.

    But it's a long long way from what Maugham did.

    36 hours later I still can't get my head around his mentality.

    There's a fox trapped at the end of your garden. You suspect he has been menacing your chickens. It is Boxing Day Morning.

    So what do you do? You are naked. You put on.... your wife's kimono (just as you did a month before in the same situation, when the fox got away). You then pick up your baseball bat hoping to get the chance (which you didn't last time) to get close to this trapped wild animal.... so you can smash its brains out.

    That is exactly what he did. What normal grown man does that?

    AND THEN HE TWEETED ABOUT IT, EXPECTING PRAISE

    He's not a normal grown man.

    He's a lawyer and a meddler in politics - both of which are adversarial - so boasting about bashing the head in of an enemy might be 'normal' to him.

    He's also someone who's become use to an adoring twatter fanclub.

    And with such things there's always a need to become ever more extreme to keep the attention.
    Foxes are pests and the correct way to deal with them when they are half trapped and (if Maugham is to be believed) two feet away from livestock and causing them significant distress, is to kill the pest as quickly and as humanely as possible. In this circumstance waiting longer for a more "humane" method would have likely caused all the animals involved much greater distress.

    Tweeting about it was a monumental lapse of judgement however. Whatever else you think about David Cameron, you have to admit, he got it dead right about Twitter.
    ... And his wife's undersized kimono? Which he likes to wear when he gets the bat to go fox hammering? How about his wife's undersized kimono?
    I think it's safe to assume he was in such a hurry he donned the first available thing to cover his modesty before stepping outside which implies he was either a) in his underpants or b) absolutely starkers before putting it on.

    Let that image settle for a minute.

    Edit. I have just read Byronic's latest. Oh God. My eyes.
    You still don't seem to understand he did this TWICE

    Jolyon was out in the wife's undersized kimono trying to hammer the fox to death with the baseball bat in November. But the fox fled.

    Then Jolyon did THE VERY SAME THING on Boxing Day, and this time the fox was trapped, so Jolyon had his wicked way, tiny kimono flapping in the wind



  • Options
    ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    OK I think I've had enough fun with Jolyon Maugham now.

    I feel genuinely sad about the fox, but I can't deny this has been the most amusing Boxing Day news story in several aeons.

    See y'all later
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 68,280
    Byronic said:


    You still don't seem to understand he did this TWICE

    Jolyon was out in the wife's undersized kimono trying to hammer the fox to death with the baseball bat in November. But the fox fled.

    Then Jolyon did THE VERY SAME THING on Boxing Day, and this time the fox was trapped, so Jolyon had his wicked way, tiny kimono flapping in the wind

    My word, did he? I thought he euthanised it with a baseball bat.
  • Options
    BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,489
    Byronic said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Byronic said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Byronic said:



    That's very fair, and I basically agree. I've seen lamping (the alternative to hunting) and it is equally unpretty. You get lots of horribly injured foxes, loping off to die, god knows where, for many hours.

    But it's a long long way from what Maugham did.

    So what do you do? You are naked. You put on.... your wife's kimono (just as you did a month before in the same situation, when the fox got away). You then pick up your baseball bat hoping to get the chance (which you didn't last time) to get close to this trapped wild animal.... so you can smash its brains out.

    That is exactly what he did. What normal grown man does that?

    AND THEN HE TWEETED ABOUT IT, EXPECTING PRAISE

    He's not a normal grown man.

    He's a lawyer and a meddler in politics - both of which are adversarial - so boasting about bashing the head in of an enemy might be 'normal' to him.

    He's also someone who's become use to an adoring twatter fanclub.

    And with such things there's always a need to become ever more extreme to keep the attention.
    Foxes are pests and the correct way to deal with them when they are half trapped and (if Maugham is to be believed) two feet away from livestock and causing them significant distress, is to kill the pest as quickly and as humanely as possible. In this circumstance waiting longer for a more "humane" method would have likely caused all the animals involved much greater distress.

    Tweeting about it was a monumental lapse of judgement however. Whatever else you think about David Cameron, you have to admit, he got it dead right about Twitter.
    ... And his wife's undersized kimono? Which he likes to wear when he gets the bat to go fox hammering? How about his wife's undersized kimono?
    I think it's safe to assume he was in such a hurry he donned the first available thing to cover his modesty before stepping outside which implies he was either a) in his underpants or b) absolutely starkers before putting it on.

    Let that image settle for a minute.

    Edit. I have just read Byronic's latest. Oh God. My eyes.
    You still don't seem to understand he did this TWICE

    Jolyon was out in the wife's undersized kimono trying to hammer the fox to death with the baseball bat in November. But the fox fled.

    Then Jolyon did THE VERY SAME THING on Boxing Day, and this time the fox was trapped, so Jolyon had his wicked way, tiny kimono flapping in the wind



    Did he tweet about the November attempt in November? or has it only just come to light?



  • Options
    maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,424
    nunu2 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Byronic said:

    Barnesian said:

    RobD said:

    MattW said:

    Barnesian said:

    kle4 said:

    Barnesian said:

    IanB2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Hopefully Bedford gets left out of the new funding model being put together by the treasury.

    It's going to be interesting to see how Labour react to money being diverted to tnecessary measure to fix inequality or they stand up for their new middle class voters?

    The likely rebalancing away from London is ironic with the PM a former mayor of the capital.
    I think the more ignorant the electorate was of Johnson's character and track record, the better the Tories did.
    How ignorant could people possibly be, we heard little else from his opponents, for good reason.
    mile.
    ople here know about debt and how long it takes to escape from it.
    The voters were too stupid to understand who they were voting for, clearly.
    They aren't stupid - not at all. But they were seduced. You don't have to be stupid to be seduced.
    That's the key thing. Boris is blooming good at seduction. His life story has been all about behaving in ways that get him the girl or the job. What he's been much less good at is behaving in ways that let him keep the girl or the job.

    Now we all get to see if this time is any different.
    He kept his job as mayor of London for two terms, in a very Labour city, because he was seen as a good mayor. Which he was.
    He was up against Livingstone, who was a busted flush. If he had been up against a fresh Labour candidate he may well have lost. He was not seen as that great, although the history books are clearly now being rewritten.
    I'm sorry but this is simply wrong. Ken at the time was seen as a great candidate and the best at beating Boris, he had a huge personal vote, any generic Labour candidate would have been crushed by Boris.

    Boris is still underestimated by the left. More fool them.
    The irony of accusing others of trying to rewrite history is laughable. Boris was a perfectly adequate, generally popular Mayor. It's only once he fronted the leave campaign that some people decided history needed rewriting.
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 26,020
    Byronic said:


    You still don't seem to understand he did this TWICE

    Jolyon was out in the wife's undersized kimono trying to hammer the fox to death with the baseball bat in November. But the fox fled.

    Then Jolyon did THE VERY SAME THING on Boxing Day, and this time the fox was trapped, so Jolyon had his wicked way, tiny kimono flapping in the wind



    It wasn't a fox the first time. The chicken was recovered, it had wandered off.
  • Options
    ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    BigRich said:

    Byronic said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Byronic said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Byronic said:



    That's very fair, and I basically agree. I've seen lamping (the alternative to hunting) and it is equally unpretty. You get lots of horribly injured foxes, loping off to die, god knows where, for many hours.

    But it's a long long way from what Maugham did.

    So what do you do? You are naked. You put on.... your wife's kimono (just as you did a month before in the same situation, when the fox got away). You then pick up your baseball bat hoping to get the chance (which you didn't last time) to get close to this trapped wild animal.... so you can smash its brains out.

    That is exactly what he did. What normal grown man does that?

    AND THEN HE TWEETED ABOUT IT, EXPECTING PRAISE

    He's not a normal grown man.

    He's a lawyer and a meddler in politics - both of which are adversarial - so boasting about bashing the head in of an enemy might be 'normal' to him.

    He's also someone who's become use to an adoring twatter fanclub.

    And with such things there's always a need to become ever more extreme to keep the attention.
    Foxes are pests of judgement however. Whatever else you think about David Cameron, you have to admit, he got it dead right about Twitter.
    ... And his wife's undersized kimono? Which he likes to wear when he gets the bat to go fox hammering? How about his wife's undersized kimono?
    I think it's safe to assume he was in such a hurry he donned the first available thing to cover his modesty before stepping outside which implies he was either a) in his underpants or b) absolutely starkers before putting it on.

    Let that image settle for a minute.

    Edit. I have just read Byronic's latest. Oh God. My eyes.
    You still don't seem to understand he did this TWICE

    Jolyon was out in the wife's undersized kimono trying to hammer the fox to death with the baseball bat in November. But the fox fled.

    Then Jolyon did THE VERY SAME THING on Boxing Day, and this time the fox was trapped, so Jolyon had his wicked way, tiny kimono flapping in the wind



    Did he tweet about the November attempt in November? or has it only just come to light?



    Harry Cole found the tweet, it dates from November 11

    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1210231242450448384?s=20
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 26,020
    That kimono is going to have to be burned now. It can't be taken to the dry cleaners to remove the fox particles. Nobody is going to want to hand wash it. And it would be unwise to give it to Help the Aged. Hope they have a wood burning stove.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,362
    ydoethur said:

    $ Saffir second innings wickets down now!

    How to sort out England in five easy words, as they again stumble to defeat in a winnable test:

    Sorry, it can’t be done.

    However, some energetic steps that could be taken to improve matters:

    1) Relieve Root of the captaincy. There are only two players guaranteed a place with a reasonable number of Tests under their belt, and it would be foolish to overburden Stokes. So make Anderson captain for the moment.

    2) Appoint Burns joint vice captain and groom him for medium-term succession.

    3) Drop Buttler and Bairstow, neither of whom merit a place. Recall Foakes at six and promote Curran to seven.

    4) Sounds harsh, but do unto Broad as was done unto Hoggard, and bring in Ed Barnard to enliven the attack.

    5) Sibley has so far not set the world alight, but deserves more time. However, Bracey and Crawley should now be opening in every Lions match to see if they can step up if necessary. It will also be interesting to see how the only English opener apart from Sibley to top 1000 last season - Chris Dent - goes in Division 1.

    Would that cure all ills? No.

    Might it improve matters? Yes.

    Could they make things worse? Well, no, not really if we’re honest...
    1) I don't think Anderson's ever captained, certainly not at a high level, and IMHO it's a bad idea to make a strike bowler captain, since they tend to over bowl themselves. Not advocating Stokes for the reasons which you gave.
    2) Don't think Burns has cemented his place yet.
    3) Don't agree; both the B's should be kept in place. For now.
    4) Think Broad deserves his place, but he's a No 11 now, not and 8 or 9.
    5) Agree that we ought to be giving a couple of players an extended run at the top of the Lions. Not over-impressed with Crawley when I've seen him.

    It's somewhat odd, when one thinks about it, that neither of the top two County sides are well represented in the England XI. It's to be hoped that Lawrence has a better season on 2020, which might ensure he challenges for a place.
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    MattWMattW Posts: 19,415
    On the Children of Ken note from a couple of days ago, it is worth a note that far from being a Boris-style serial legover enthusiast, at least two of Ken's kids are stated to be because he was helping a friend faced with the menopause.

    I won't be seen backing Ken very often - but afaik this is correct.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 64,113
    Jojo Rabbit is excellent, btw.

    I’m impressed that Scarlett Johansson had the guts to take a role in it. And confirmed that she’s a pretty good actress.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 68,280
    edited December 2019

    1) Relieve Root of the captaincy. There are only two players guaranteed a place with a reasonable number of Tests under their belt, and it would be foolish to overburden Stokes. So make Anderson captain for the moment. I don't think Anderson's ever captained, certainly not at a high level, and IMHO it's a bad idea to make a strike bowler captain, since they tend to over bowl themselves. Not advocating Stokes for the reasons which you gave.

    2) Appoint Burns joint vice captain and groom him for medium-term succession. Don't think Burns has cemented his place yet.

    3) Drop Buttler and Bairstow, neither of whom merit a place. Recall Foakes at six and promote Curran to seven. Don't agree; both the B's should be kept in place. For now.

    4) Sounds harsh, but do unto Broad as was done unto Hoggard, and bring in Ed Barnard to enliven the attack. Think Broad deserves his place, but he's a No 11 now, not and 8 or 9.

    5) Sibley has so far not set the world alight, but deserves more time. However, Bracey and Crawley should now be opening in every Lions match to see if they can step up if necessary. It will also be interesting to see how the only English opener apart from Sibley to top 1000 last season - Chris Dent - goes in Division 1. Agree that we ought to be giving a couple of players an extended run at the top of the Lions. Not over-impressed with Crawley when I've seen him.

    It's somewhat odd, when one thinks about it, that neither of the top two County sides are well represented in the England XI. It's to be hoped that Lawrence has a better season on 2020, which might ensure he challenges for a place.

    1) They’re the only two players other than Root assured of a place. If not Root, and not Stokes, that leaves Anderson. He has just as much captaincy experience as Root did but far more experience in every other respect.

    2) That’s why I’ve not considered him a possible captain, but if he can cement his place he’s the obvious pick in 18 months.

    3) Both are averaging in the mid-20s in the last year. They have one century between them, in two years. They are neither of them top class wicketkeepers. Why keep people with two years’ of failure in place when the side as a whole is struggling and we have alternatives?

    4) Yes, he would if we were talking solely about current performances. But he wouldn’t break into the side on them. Time for a freshening up, and if Anderson is guaranteed, Broad misses out.

    5) I’ve never seen Crawley bat but his figures are hard to argue with. Bracey is good. Lawrence should come good again. You wonder what will happen with Hameed at Notts. New players at Notts tend to do very badly for a couple of seasons, so I personally think he made a poor choice.
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    BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,489
    in an attempt to move the conversation on from the Fox-Bat-kimono affair!

    Does anybody know what went on in 'Leeds North East' and their spoiled ballots?

    531 which is over 100 more than the next biggest. But more strange is that the other seats with high number of spoiled ballots, all had no BREXIT party or no Green party candidate, (the next 3 highest did not have ether a Green or a Brexit Party) But Leeds North West had one of each!

    any explanations?
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    MattWMattW Posts: 19,415
    Saga Jolyon.

    ISTM that on the tabloid story front the only things missing are camiknickers and thigh-boots, with the whole thing being filmed by a neighbour. Has Jumping Jolyon got a thing about reenacting Kill Bill? It is every as good a tabloid story as that footballer who crashed his unnecessary 200k sports car dressed up as a snowman the other day.

    Personally I am feeling a certain amount of schadenfreude. The biter bit through his own folly. Jolyon is quite the nasty piece of online work these days, and something of a troll. Poetic justice by twitter.

    On the animal cruelty front, there are a couple of things that need looking at:

    1 - The act may well have been illegal. Needs testing. Especially as a man like JM who lives mainly in the country should know the law.
    2 - The publicity attached to the case. Do we want an animal basher to walk away scot free?

    I can't help wondering how long it will be before one of these media remainers gets themselves sectioned.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 68,280
    MattW said:

    Saga Jolyon.

    ISTM that on the tabloid story front the only things missing are camiknickers and thigh-boots, with the whole thing being filmed by a neighbour. Has Jumping Jolyon got a thing about reenacting Kill Bill? It is every as good a tabloid story as that footballer who crashed his unnecessary 200k sports car dressed up as a snowman the other day.

    Personally I am feeling a certain amount of schadenfreude. The biter bit through his own folly. Jolyon is quite the nasty piece of online work these days, and something of a troll. Poetic justice by twitter.

    On the animal cruelty front, there are a couple of things that need looking at:

    1 - The act may well have been illegal. Needs testing. Especially as a man like JM who lives mainly in the country should know the law.
    2 - The publicity attached to the case. Do we want an animal basher to walk away scot free?

    I can't help wondering how long it will be before one of these media remainers gets themselves sectioned.

    Do we know what happened to James Chapman in the end?
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 93,302

    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    I totally oppose foxhunting and all cruelty to animals.

    Maugham needs to be investigated for animal cruelty.

    From the Mail, the fox was caught in electric netting. Presumably scared and in pain.
    It's one of the most bizarre things I've ever read. The bloke seems deranged. He's clearly swallowed his own hype, boasting about it and thinking that he needs to post on twitter everything he does, believing his hashtag gang will lap it up. Clearly Brexit has sent him insane.
    And if people want to get dressed up in their finery and chase a drag trail across the fields, then who are we to stop them?
    .
    The suspicion
    I agree that that it is not a sport and that is unacceptable. But the overwhelming majority of hunts yesterday were simple drag hunts. So what if folk wish to get dressed up to do that? There were getting their enjoyment from riding across the countryside, and many of them simply form trying to keep up with the better riders in the red jackets.

    Lots of people get dressed up for the most silly of reasons - from Lord Mayors' dinners to Morris dancing, to Christmas jumper day in the office. It's one of the things I like about being British.

    You'll notice I didn't ascribe anthropomorphic characteristics to the fox ion my argument - despite having seen the devastating effect of a fox attack on lambs and poultry a number of times. It's a pest that needs controlling like any other.
    I didn't say you ascribe anthrorpormorphic characteristics to foxes, but others have and many do, and it is very very silly and designed to whip people up about the eeeevvil animal. I get that for those for whom the fox is a pest it must be irritating when people act like they are akin to dogs or something, but just play footage of the horrifying screams they make or something, focus on the pest aspect, don't act like they are minions of Lord Sauron or something.

    And you've completely ignored my response as to 'so what' if people get dressed up. It makes it very suspect that people are doing it because it is an efficient method of pest control, but instead because they want to have fun, which you can do without the hunt part. You are upset that people focus on that because it makes it look like they are doing it purely for fun, and not pest control? Then have them do it without the pagentry for a bit. The complaints on that grounds would stop and people can continue to have undertaking the pest control aspect. You say the enjoyment is riding across the countryside, so remove the costumes and people can still have that fun.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,488
    ydoethur said:

    Byronic said:

    Nigelb said:

    Byronic said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Byronic said:



    That's very fT IT, EXPECTING PRAISE

    He's not a normal grown man.

    He's a lawyer and a meddler in politics - both of which are adversarial - so boasting about bashing the head in of an enemy might be 'normal' to him.

    He's also someone who's become use to an adoring twatter fanclub.

    And with such things there's always a need to become ever more extreme to keep the attention.
    Foxes are pests and the correct way to deal with them when they are half trapped and (if Maugham is to be believed) two feet away from livestock and causing them significant distress, is to kill the pest as quickly and as humanely as possible. In this circumstance waiting longer for a more "humane" method would have likely caused all the animals involved much greater distress.

    Tweeting about it was a monumental lapse of judgement however. Whatever else you think about David Cameron, you have to admit, he got it dead right about Twitter.
    ... And his wife's undersized kimono? Which he likes to wear when he gets the bat to go fox hammering? How about his wife's undersized kimono?
    Yeah. Can’t the bastard buy his wife a kimono that fits ?
    I'm picturing the scene Chez Maugham when one of the kids rushes in and says "Dad, the fox is trapped in the fence!"

    What does Jolyon do?

    It's Boxing Day morning and he is naked in bed. So, naturally, he goes to the wardrobe to select some clothes to wear for this nasty and possibly gruesome task. Yes, he chooses his wife's silk kimono. A kimono which he KNOWS is "too short", because he wore it last time he tried to bludgeon the fox. Ooooh.

    The kids are now down by the Christmas tree. The wife is in the shower, washing her hair, oblivious.

    Jolyon takes out the silk kimono, with its exquisite female scent of Chanel. He slips it on, gloating in the way it exposes himself, with every move, especially if he does a kind of bludgeoning action.

    As he heads downstairs he takes up the baseball bat, feeling the silk tingle on his bare pectorals. His arousal is obvious, but who cares.

    That fox is TOAST.
    Have you ever tried writing? That one might qualify for the Bad Sex In Fiction award.
    Are we sure it was the baseball bat he used to bludgeon the fox to death with? Just askin'.....
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 68,280

    ydoethur said:

    Byronic said:

    Nigelb said:

    Byronic said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Byronic said:



    That's very fT IT, EXPECTING PRAISE

    He's not a normal grown man.

    He's a lawyer and a meddler in politics - both of which are adversarial - so boasting about bashing the head in of an enemy might be 'normal' to him.

    He's also someone who's become use to an adoring twatter fanclub.

    And with such things there's always a need to become ever more extreme to keep the attention.
    Foxes are pests and the correct way to deal with them when they are half trapped and (if Maugham is to be believed) two feet away from livestock and causing them significant distress, is to kill the pest as quickly and as humanely as possible. In this circumstance waiting longer for a more "humane" method would have likely caused all the animals involved much greater distress.

    Tweeting about it was a monumental lapse of judgement however. Whatever else you think about David Cameron, you have to admit, he got it dead right about Twitter.
    ... And his wife's undersized kimono? Which he likes to wear when he gets the bat to go fox hammering? How about his wife's undersized kimono?
    Yeah. Can’t the bastard buy his wife a kimono that fits ?
    I'm picturing the scene Chez Maugham when one of the kids rushes in and says "Dad, the fox is trapped in the fence!"

    What does Jolyon do?

    It's Boxing Day morning and he is naked in bed. So, naturally, he goes to the wardrobe to select some clothes to wear for this nasty and possibly gruesome task. Yes, he chooses his wife's silk kimono. A kimono which he KNOWS is "too short", because he wore it last time he tried to bludgeon the fox. Ooooh.

    The kids are now down by the Christmas tree. The wife is in the shower, washing her hair, oblivious.

    Jolyon takes out the silk kimono, with its exquisite female scent of Chanel. He slips it on, gloating in the way it exposes himself, with every move, especially if he does a kind of bludgeoning action.

    As he heads downstairs he takes up the baseball bat, feeling the silk tingle on his bare pectorals. His arousal is obvious, but who cares.

    That fox is TOAST.
    Have you ever tried writing? That one might qualify for the Bad Sex In Fiction award.
    Are we sure it was the baseball bat he used to bludgeon the fox to death with? Just askin'.....
    Well, we’re told he had his wicked way with it...
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 93,302
    Byronic said:

    OK I think I've had enough fun with Jolyon Maugham now.

    I feel genuinely sad about the fox, but I can't deny this has been the most amusing Boxing Day news story in several aeons.

    See y'all later

    I think it has run its course. It's mostly funny just because he's an aggravating man, and because a lot of people go nuts whenever foxes are brought up - its polarized and hyperbolized more quickly than a Brexit debate.
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    No surprise.
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    maaarsh said:

    kle4 said:

    John Harris in Redcar in 2015 with the Conservative candidate.

    He came fourth.

    Four years later he is the MP.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekR3yZlWQ-

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/may/04/anger-apathy-hope-great-british-election-diary

    Here is the video, I couldn’t get it to work on the link.
    Thanks - I see the Guardian have changed their polite request for contributions at the end of the articles to reference the horror of us being governed by Boris Johnson for five years, and the need for quality journalism as a result, so perhaps like leadership contests for Labour Boris Johnson will be good for their coffers.
    It’s always something to keep the vanity publishing continuing. What’s interesting about the anywhere but Westminster is the hollowing out of labour support in first the south east, Scotland and now the north east. How this eroding of class based labour voting has been happening way before the Brexit referendum and before Jeremy Corbyn, but it seems both Brexit and Jeremy have showed how the modern Labour Party is a metropolitan party more concerned with pronouns than with helping people into work.
    As PB's Sandy has said the Labour party has become obsessed with the top 10% and the bottom 10%.

    The 80% in the middle has become hollowed out.
    It's far narrower than 10% either side. If you're not a fat cat or in grinding poverty(relative definition, absolute imagery), they don't think you exist.
    Absolutely. What they describe are the few unlucky/unwise who have become destitute. Their experiences are what we think of as poverty and unlike the nonsense ‘poverty’ figures are something that governments should focus on. This has reduced by a quarter in the last four years. Some people are persistently in this situation from their own poor decision making but it doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be helped.
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    StockyStocky Posts: 9,786
    edited December 2019
    On topic: Sorry if it`s already been pointed out, but Bedford can be added to the list of 20 seats that BXP may have handed to Labour. See below:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7804983/Nigel-Farage-stopped-Boris-Johnson-winning-100-seat-majority.html
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    BigRich said:

    in an attempt to move the conversation on from the Fox-Bat-kimono affair!

    Does anybody know what went on in 'Leeds North East' and their spoiled ballots?

    531 which is over 100 more than the next biggest. But more strange is that the other seats with high number of spoiled ballots, all had no BREXIT party or no Green party candidate, (the next 3 highest did not have ether a Green or a Brexit Party) But Leeds North West had one of each!

    any explanations?

    The Conservative candidate was one of those suspended for antisemitism, perhaps?
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,653
    Byronic said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Byronic said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Byronic said:



    That's very fair, and I basically agree. I've seen lamping (the alternative to hunting) and it is equally unpretty. You get lots of horribly injured foxes, loping off to die, god knows where, for many hours.

    But it's a long long way from what Maugham did.

    36 hours later I still can't get my head around his mentality.

    There's a fox trapped at the end of your garden. You suspect he has been menacing your chickens. It is Boxing Day Morning.

    So what do you do? You are naked. You put on.... your wife's kimono (just as you did a month before in the same situation, when the fox got away). You then pick up your baseball bat hoping to get the chance (which you didn't last time) to get close to this trapped wild animal.... so you can smash its brains out.

    That is exactly what he did. What normal grown man does that?

    AND THEN HE TWEETED ABOUT IT, EXPECTING PRAISE

    He's not a normal grown man.

    He's a lawyer and a meddler in politics - both of which are adversarial - so boasting about bashing the head in of an enemy might be 'normal' to him.

    He's also someone who's become use to an adoring twatter fanclub.

    And with such things there's always a need to become ever more extreme to keep the attention.
    Foxes are pests and the correct way to deal with them when they are half trapped and (if Maugham is to be believed) two feet away from livestock and causing them significant distress, is to kill the pest as quickly and as humanely as possible. In this circumstance waiting longer for a more "humane" method would have likely caused all the animals involved much greater distress.

    Tweeting about it was a monumental lapse of judgement however. Whatever else you think about David Cameron, you have to admit, he got it dead right about Twitter.
    ... And his wife's undersized kimono? Which he likes to wear when he gets the bat to go fox hammering? How about his wife's undersized kimono?
    I think it's safe to assume he was in such a hurry he donned the first available thing to cover his modesty before stepping outside which implies he was either a) in his underpants or b) absolutely starkers before putting it on.

    Let that image settle for a minute.

    Edit. I have just read Byronic's latest. Oh God. My eyes.
    You still don't seem to understand he did this TWICE

    Jolyon was out in the wife's undersized kimono trying to hammer the fox to death with the baseball bat in November. But the fox fled.

    Then Jolyon did THE VERY SAME THING on Boxing Day, and this time the fox was trapped, so Jolyon had his wicked way, tiny kimono flapping in the wind



    My god, you're obsessed.
  • Options
    Still not as bad as half a season of The Animals of Farthing Wood (the kids' TV series that makes Game of Thrones look too attached to its characters).
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,653
    Byronic said:

    Harry Cole found the tweet, it dates from November 11

    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1210231242450448384?s=20

    If you have to go to your henhouse to defend your chickens from a predator, do you bring:

    (a) a baseball bat
    or
    (b) your really wicked sense of humour

    In your world, you seem to think that Jo Thingymegig only got chickens so as to encourage foxes onto his property and enable him to smash them to death for his own pleasure.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,653
    Stocky said:

    On topic: Sorry if it`s already been pointed out, but Bedford can be added to the list of 20 seats that BXP may have handed to Labour. See below:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7804983/Nigel-Farage-stopped-Boris-Johnson-winning-100-seat-majority.html

    Didn't BXP voters, on forced choice, choose Labour slightly more than Conservative nationally? (Albeit, of course, that 90% of them would probably not have voted.)
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    ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    rcs1000 said:

    Byronic said:

    Harry Cole found the tweet, it dates from November 11

    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1210231242450448384?s=20

    If you have to go to your henhouse to defend your chickens from a predator, do you bring:

    (a) a baseball bat
    or
    (b) your really wicked sense of humour

    In your world, you seem to think that Jo Thingymegig only got chickens so as to encourage foxes onto his property and enable him to smash them to death for his own pleasure.
    Don't be daft, you bring your wife's undersized Japanese nightie to just about cover your manhood as you seek out a fox to pulverise. And you do this TWICE.
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    rcs1000 said:

    Byronic said:

    Harry Cole found the tweet, it dates from November 11

    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1210231242450448384?s=20

    If you have to go to your henhouse to defend your chickens from a predator, do you bring:

    (a) a baseball bat
    or
    (b) your really wicked sense of humour

    In your world, you seem to think that Jo Thingymegig only got chickens so as to encourage foxes onto his property and enable him to smash them to death for his own pleasure.
    Don't we all?
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    StockyStocky Posts: 9,786
    rcs1000 said:

    Stocky said:

    On topic: Sorry if it`s already been pointed out, but Bedford can be added to the list of 20 seats that BXP may have handed to Labour. See below:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7804983/Nigel-Farage-stopped-Boris-Johnson-winning-100-seat-majority.html

    Didn't BXP voters, on forced choice, choose Labour slightly more than Conservative nationally? (Albeit, of course, that 90% of them would probably not have voted.)
    Not according to pollsters, see:

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/nigel-farage-stopped-tories-taking-20-more-seats-say-pollsters-d0wdjppxh
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 64,113
    rcs1000 said:

    Byronic said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Byronic said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Byronic said:



    That's very fair, and I basically agree. I've seen lamping (the alternative to hunting) and it is equally unpretty. You get lots of horribly injured foxes, loping off to die, god knows where, for many hours.

    There's a fox trapped at the end of your garden. You suspect he has been menacing your chickens. It is Boxing Day Morning.

    So what do you do? You are naked. You put on.... your wife's kimono (just as you did a month before in the same situation, when the fox got away). You then pick up your baseball bat hoping to get the chance (which you didn't last time) to get close to this trapped wild animal.... so you can smash its brains out.

    That is exactly what he did. What normal grown man does that?

    AND THEN HE TWEETED ABOUT IT, EXPECTING PRAISE

    He's not a normal grown man.

    He's a lawyer and a meddler in politics - both of which are adversarial - so boasting about bashing the head in of an enemy might be 'normal' to him.

    He's also someone who's become use to an adoring twatter fanclub.

    And with such things there's always a need to become ever more extreme to keep the attention.
    Foxes are pests and the correct way to deal with them when they are half trapped and (if Maugham is to be believed) two feet away from livestock and causing them significant distress, is to kill the pest as quickly and as humanely as possible. In this circumstance waiting longer for a more "humane" method would have likely caused all the animals involved much greater distress.

    Tweeting about it was a monumental lapse of judgement however. Whatever else you think about David Cameron, you have to admit, he got it dead right about Twitter.
    ... And his wife's undersized kimono? Which he likes to wear when he gets the bat to go fox hammering? How about his wife's undersized kimono?
    I think it's safe to assume he was in such a hurry he donned the first available thing to cover his modesty before stepping outside which implies he was either a) in his underpants or b) absolutely starkers before putting it on.

    Let that image settle for a minute.

    Edit. I have just read Byronic's latest. Oh God. My eyes.
    You still don't seem to understand he did this TWICE

    Jolyon was out in the wife's undersized kimono trying to hammer the fox to death with the baseball bat in November. But the fox fled.

    Then Jolyon did THE VERY SAME THING on Boxing Day, and this time the fox was trapped, so Jolyon had his wicked way, tiny kimono flapping in the wind
    My god, you're obsessed.
    A fellow Kimoaner, perhaps ?

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    felixfelix Posts: 15,125
    MattW said:

    Saga Jolyon.

    ISTM that on the tabloid story front the only things missing are camiknickers and thigh-boots, with the whole thing being filmed by a neighbour. Has Jumping Jolyon got a thing about reenacting Kill Bill? It is every as good a tabloid story as that footballer who crashed his unnecessary 200k sports car dressed up as a snowman the other day.

    Personally I am feeling a certain amount of schadenfreude. The biter bit through his own folly. Jolyon is quite the nasty piece of online work these days, and something of a troll. Poetic justice by twitter.

    On the animal cruelty front, there are a couple of things that need looking at:

    1 - The act may well have been illegal. Needs testing. Especially as a man like JM who lives mainly in the country should know the law.
    2 - The publicity attached to the case. Do we want an animal basher to walk away scot free?

    I can't help wondering how long it will be before one of these media remainers gets themselves sectioned.

    Adonis/graying/Maugham - and maybe one or two on here....
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,125



    No surprise.

    An even bigger majority againt would come from the Republic..
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,488
    rcs1000 said:

    Stocky said:

    On topic: Sorry if it`s already been pointed out, but Bedford can be added to the list of 20 seats that BXP may have handed to Labour. See below:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7804983/Nigel-Farage-stopped-Boris-Johnson-winning-100-seat-majority.html

    Didn't BXP voters, on forced choice, choose Labour slightly more than Conservative nationally? (Albeit, of course, that 90% of them would probably not have voted.)
    Lord Ashworth found they broke (from memory) 70% Tory on a forced choice.
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    ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    felix said:

    MattW said:

    Saga Jolyon.

    ISTM that on the tabloid story front the only things missing are camiknickers and thigh-boots, with the whole thing being filmed by a neighbour. Has Jumping Jolyon got a thing about reenacting Kill Bill? It is every as good a tabloid story as that footballer who crashed his unnecessary 200k sports car dressed up as a snowman the other day.

    Personally I am feeling a certain amount of schadenfreude. The biter bit through his own folly. Jolyon is quite the nasty piece of online work these days, and something of a troll. Poetic justice by twitter.

    On the animal cruelty front, there are a couple of things that need looking at:

    1 - The act may well have been illegal. Needs testing. Especially as a man like JM who lives mainly in the country should know the law.
    2 - The publicity attached to the case. Do we want an animal basher to walk away scot free?

    I can't help wondering how long it will be before one of these media remainers gets themselves sectioned.

    Adonis/graying/Maugham - and maybe one or two on here....
    Somone else mentioned James Chapman the journo.

    I just checked and he simply stopped tweeting in the summer.

    For a long time, Brexychosis was a joke (at least for me). Now I wonder if it is a genuine psychological affliction (akin to Paris Syndrome perhaps) .

    It must go something like this: when a cherished but unquestioned political reality is brutally overturned, apparently by one's social inferiors, the sufferer reacts with bewildered denial and hysterical anger, that can ultimately lead to proper and public mental breakdown.

    I sincerely believe this is a THING
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    RobDRobD Posts: 59,201
    I see foxgate (or should it be Jolyongate) is still rumbling on.
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    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 25,288
    edited December 2019
    RobD said:

    I see foxgate (or should it be Jolyongate) is still rumbling on.

    They've moved onto kimonogate now.
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    Mr. Byronic, it might be the feeling of dislocation between one's assumptions about the country and the natural order of things and suddenly discovering that isn't the case.

    When the world isn't as you thought it was that can be quite a difficult thing with which to come to terms.

    I do feel sympathy for people in that situation. And the killer is that the referendum was there to be won, and the campaign absolutely fucked it up. A renegotiation that was seen as Neville Chamberlain's piece of paper. Warnings that were so dire they were laughed at and undermined more credible claims. Enlisting a foreign politician to try and tell people how to vote.

    Though, personally, I'd go back to Lisbon. Promising people a referendum and then reneging upon it wasn't just dodgy, it was bloody stupid.
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    felix said:



    No surprise.

    An even bigger majority againt would come from the Republic..
    Possibly but I'm not too sure about republic.
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,125
    edited December 2019

    Mr. Byronic, it might be the feeling of dislocation between one's assumptions about the country and the natural order of things and suddenly discovering that isn't the case.

    When the world isn't as you thought it was that can be quite a difficult thing with which to come to terms.

    I do feel sympathy for people in that situation. And the killer is that the referendum was there to be won, and the campaign absolutely fucked it up. A renegotiation that was seen as Neville Chamberlain's piece of paper. Warnings that were so dire they were laughed at and undermined more credible claims. Enlisting a foreign politician to try and tell people how to vote.

    Though, personally, I'd go back to Lisbon. Promising people a referendum and then reneging upon it wasn't just dodgy, it was bloody stupid.

    It has and continues to reveal very starkly that large numbers of our citizens have a profound distaste for democracy when they lose and a really nasty, arrogant and thoroughly unpleasant disdain for large swathes of the population. I guess it has always been there but Brexit has brought it to the fore and most of them have no shame whatsoever in the expression of their views.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,362

    Mr. Byronic, it might be the feeling of dislocation between one's assumptions about the country and the natural order of things and suddenly discovering that isn't the case.

    When the world isn't as you thought it was that can be quite a difficult thing with which to come to terms.

    I do feel sympathy for people in that situation. And the killer is that the referendum was there to be won, and the campaign absolutely fucked it up. A renegotiation that was seen as Neville Chamberlain's piece of paper. Warnings that were so dire they were laughed at and undermined more credible claims. Enlisting a foreign politician to try and tell people how to vote.

    Though, personally, I'd go back to Lisbon. Promising people a referendum and then reneging upon it wasn't just dodgy, it was bloody stupid.

    What, to the likes of me, is really stupid, is that the European Movement has decided to get itself going again as a mass movement. At least three years too late, IMHO. IIRC the European Movement was one of the keys to a big pro-EEC vote in the 1975 Referendum, whereas in 2016 all we saw was a crowd of wallys with Union Jacks and promises of the moon on a stick.
    I do agree about Lisbon though. Promises unkept are long remembered.
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    ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578

    Mr. Byronic, it might be the feeling of dislocation between one's assumptions about the country and the natural order of things and suddenly discovering that isn't the case.

    When the world isn't as you thought it was that can be quite a difficult thing with which to come to terms.

    I do feel sympathy for people in that situation. And the killer is that the referendum was there to be won, and the campaign absolutely fucked it up. A renegotiation that was seen as Neville Chamberlain's piece of paper. Warnings that were so dire they were laughed at and undermined more credible claims. Enlisting a foreign politician to try and tell people how to vote.

    Though, personally, I'd go back to Lisbon. Promising people a referendum and then reneging upon it wasn't just dodgy, it was bloody stupid.

    What, to the likes of me, is really stupid, is that the European Movement has decided to get itself going again as a mass movement. At least three years too late, IMHO. IIRC the European Movement was one of the keys to a big pro-EEC vote in the 1975 Referendum, whereas in 2016 all we saw was a crowd of wallys with Union Jacks and promises of the moon on a stick.
    I do agree about Lisbon though. Promises unkept are long remembered.
    Yes I agree with both of you

    Lisbon was the terrible error that revisited us all in 2016. You cannot lie to the people so blatantly, without, in the end, experiencing a blowback. We are "lucky" that the anger has - in the end - been vented democratically.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,362
    felix said:

    Mr. Byronic, it might be the feeling of dislocation between one's assumptions about the country and the natural order of things and suddenly discovering that isn't the case.

    When the world isn't as you thought it was that can be quite a difficult thing with which to come to terms.

    I do feel sympathy for people in that situation. And the killer is that the referendum was there to be won, and the campaign absolutely fucked it up. A renegotiation that was seen as Neville Chamberlain's piece of paper. Warnings that were so dire they were laughed at and undermined more credible claims. Enlisting a foreign politician to try and tell people how to vote.

    Though, personally, I'd go back to Lisbon. Promising people a referendum and then reneging upon it wasn't just dodgy, it was bloody stupid.

    It has and continues to reveal very starkly that large numbers of our citizens have a profound distaste for democracy when they lose and a really nasty, arrogant and thoroughly unpleasant disdain for large swathes of the population. I guess it has always been there but Brexit has brought it to the fore and most of them have no shame whatsoever in the expression of their views.
    I do feel that the 'arrogant and unpleasant disdain' comes from the victors.
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    EPGEPG Posts: 6,305
    When did Obama overtake Clinton in national polling. It must have been during 2008? Biden still enjoys 10+ point leads in national polling.
  • Options
    Neither side has a monopoly on arrogance.
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    EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,956

    felix said:

    Mr. Byronic, it might be the feeling of dislocation between one's assumptions about the country and the natural order of things and suddenly discovering that isn't the case.

    When the world isn't as you thought it was that can be quite a difficult thing with which to come to terms.

    I do feel sympathy for people in that situation. And the killer is that the referendum was there to be won, and the campaign absolutely fucked it up. A renegotiation that was seen as Neville Chamberlain's piece of paper. Warnings that were so dire they were laughed at and undermined more credible claims. Enlisting a foreign politician to try and tell people how to vote.

    Though, personally, I'd go back to Lisbon. Promising people a referendum and then reneging upon it wasn't just dodgy, it was bloody stupid.

    It has and continues to reveal very starkly that large numbers of our citizens have a profound distaste for democracy when they lose and a really nasty, arrogant and thoroughly unpleasant disdain for large swathes of the population. I guess it has always been there but Brexit has brought it to the fore and most of them have no shame whatsoever in the expression of their views.
    I do feel that the 'arrogant and unpleasant disdain' comes from the victors.
    Some of it does. Lots of it does not.

    https://twitter.com/TedUrchin/status/1210323437224415242?s=19
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    alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    ydoethur said:

    1) Relieve Root of the captaincy. There are only two players guaranteed a place with a reasonable number of Tests under their belt, and it would be foolish to overburden Stokes. So make Anderson captain for the moment. I don't think Anderson's ever captained, certainly not at a high level, and IMHO it's a bad idea to make a strike bowler captain, since they tend to over bowl themselves. Not advocating Stokes for the reasons which you gave.

    2) Appoint Burns joint vice captain and groom him for medium-term succession. Don't think Burns has cemented his place yet.

    3) Drop Buttler and Bairstow, neither of whom merit a place. Recall Foakes at six and promote Curran to seven.

    5) Sibley has so far not set the world alight, but deserves more time. However, Bracey and Crawley should now be opening in every Lions match to see if they can step up if necessary. It will also be interesting to see how the only English opener apart from Sibley to top 1000 last season - Chris Dent - goes in Division 1. Agree that we ought to be giving a couple of players an extended run at the top of the Lions. Not over-impressed with Crawley when I've seen him.

    It's somewhat odd, when one thinks about it, that neither of the top two County sides are well represented in the England XI. It's to be hoped that Lawrence has a better season on 2020, which might ensure he challenges for a place.

    1) They’re the only two players other than Root assured of a place. If not Root, and not Stokes, that leaves Anderson. He has just as much captaincy experience as Root did but far more experience in every other respect.

    2) That’s why I’ve not considered him a possible captain, but if he can cement his place he’s the obvious pick in 18 months.

    3) Both are averaging in the mid-20s in the last year. They have one century between them, in two years. They are neither of them top class wicketkeepers. Why keep people with two years’ of failure in place when the side as a whole is struggling and we have alternatives?

    4) Yes, he would if we were talking solely about current performances. But he wouldn’t break into the side on them. Time for a freshening up, and if Anderson is guaranteed, Broad misses out.

    5) I’ve never seen Crawley bat but his figures are hard to argue with. Bracey is good. Lawrence should come good again. You wonder what will happen with Hameed at Notts. New players at Notts tend to do very badly for a couple of seasons, so I personally think he made a poor choice.
    If Broad isn’t worth his place on current performances then I don’t know who is.
  • Options

    felix said:



    No surprise.

    An even bigger majority againt would come from the Republic..
    Possibly but I'm not too sure about republic.
    It'll be like German reunification all over again, it made no economic sense for West Germany to reunify with East Germany but emotionally it is what the West Germans wanted.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,653
    By the way, if anyone wants to bet on Jo Fancyname getting convicted of breach of an animal welfare law, I'm willing to take sizeable bets.
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    Essexit said:

    felix said:

    Mr. Byronic, it might be the feeling of dislocation between one's assumptions about the country and the natural order of things and suddenly discovering that isn't the case.

    When the world isn't as you thought it was that can be quite a difficult thing with which to come to terms.

    I do feel sympathy for people in that situation. And the killer is that the referendum was there to be won, and the campaign absolutely fucked it up. A renegotiation that was seen as Neville Chamberlain's piece of paper. Warnings that were so dire they were laughed at and undermined more credible claims. Enlisting a foreign politician to try and tell people how to vote.

    Though, personally, I'd go back to Lisbon. Promising people a referendum and then reneging upon it wasn't just dodgy, it was bloody stupid.

    It has and continues to reveal very starkly that large numbers of our citizens have a profound distaste for democracy when they lose and a really nasty, arrogant and thoroughly unpleasant disdain for large swathes of the population. I guess it has always been there but Brexit has brought it to the fore and most of them have no shame whatsoever in the expression of their views.
    I do feel that the 'arrogant and unpleasant disdain' comes from the victors.
    Some of it does. Lots of it does not.

    https://twitter.com/TedUrchin/status/1210323437224415242?s=19
    Why is it unpleasant and arrogant to point out the uneducated voted Leave?
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,362
    Essexit said:

    felix said:

    Mr. Byronic, it might be the feeling of dislocation between one's assumptions about the country and the natural order of things and suddenly discovering that isn't the case.

    When the world isn't as you thought it was that can be quite a difficult thing with which to come to terms.

    I do feel sympathy for people in that situation. And the killer is that the referendum was there to be won, and the campaign absolutely fucked it up. A renegotiation that was seen as Neville Chamberlain's piece of paper. Warnings that were so dire they were laughed at and undermined more credible claims. Enlisting a foreign politician to try and tell people how to vote.

    Though, personally, I'd go back to Lisbon. Promising people a referendum and then reneging upon it wasn't just dodgy, it was bloody stupid.

    It has and continues to reveal very starkly that large numbers of our citizens have a profound distaste for democracy when they lose and a really nasty, arrogant and thoroughly unpleasant disdain for large swathes of the population. I guess it has always been there but Brexit has brought it to the fore and most of them have no shame whatsoever in the expression of their views.
    I do feel that the 'arrogant and unpleasant disdain' comes from the victors.
    Some of it does. Lots of it does not.

    https://twitter.com/TedUrchin/status/1210323437224415242?s=19
    That is neither arrogant or disdainful, but factual.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,653
    EPG said:

    When did Obama overtake Clinton in national polling. It must have been during 2008? Biden still enjoys 10+ point leads in national polling.

    In '08, before Iowa, Clinton was leading Obama about 60-25-10-5

    In '04, before Iowa, Kerry was fourth in single digits in the polling, and Dean and Gephardt were the national polling favourites.

    If the results from Iowa and New Hampshire don't change the national polling then it will be 2020 that is the outlier. Doesn't mean it will happen - each election is unique, after all - but those that assume that national polls survive the first two primaries are very much betting against history.
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    squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,423

    Essexit said:

    felix said:

    Mr. Byronic, it might be the feeling of dislocation between one's assumptions about the country and the natural order of things and suddenly discovering that isn't the case.

    When the world isn't as you thought it was that can be quite a difficult thing with which to come to terms.

    I do feel sympathy for people in that situation. And the killer is that the referendum was there to be won, and the campaign absolutely fucked it up. A renegotiation that was seen as Neville Chamberlain's piece of paper. Warnings that were so dire they were laughed at and undermined more credible claims. Enlisting a foreign politician to try and tell people how to vote.

    Though, personally, I'd go back to Lisbon. Promising people a referendum and then reneging upon it wasn't just dodgy, it was bloody stupid.

    It has and continues to reveal very starkly that large numbers of our citizens have a profound distaste for democracy when they lose and a really nasty, arrogant and thoroughly unpleasant disdain for large swathes of the population. I guess it has always been there but Brexit has brought it to the fore and most of them have no shame whatsoever in the expression of their views.
    I do feel that the 'arrogant and unpleasant disdain' comes from the victors.
    Some of it does. Lots of it does not.

    https://twitter.com/TedUrchin/status/1210323437224415242?s=19
    That is neither arrogant or disdainful, but factual.
    Of course it is.. its trying to prove that those who voted for Brexit are thickos. I wouldn't trust that kind of data wherever it came from. I voted remain btw
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    Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,693
    edited December 2019

    I believe there is a far more relevant and indeed more obvious reason than those given by Mike Smithson for Labour's success in retaining the Bedford Parliamentary Constituency. This relates to its high and expanding ethnic population, evidenced by Electoral Calculus' figures showing that only 77% of its electorate was born in the UK ... this is only marginally higher than the 73% applicable to the Luton North Constituency which is now very much a Labour stronghold, with a majority of 9,247 achieved two weeks ago.
    In both constituencies the percentage of British born constituents is very much lower than the national average of 88%.

    It is far more sophisticated than that. The LAB incumbent is a Muslim which barely endrears him to to Hindu and Sikh communities. Also 29% of the population are of Italian descent and they make up the largest group. In the Mayoral election in May the Tories had their best ever performance when they put up a candidate of Italian descent. There is also a very large Polish community.
    On thread:
    Regarding Bedford, potential factors that come to mind are:
    1. As you say, first time incumbency, which was also a factor in some other seats that Labour held onto with relatively small swings against (e..g Croydon Central), but given that Labour suffered sharp swings against in others with first time incumbents (e.g. Crewe) this isn't enough on its own as an explanation.
    2. If there is initial irrational (racist?) hostility to a candidate on the grounds of their ethnicity, it is possible that they have the potential to generate an above average incumbency bonus by proving the doubters wrong.
    3. The presence of a Brexit Party candidate in 2019 (polling 1.9%) in contrast to the absence of a UKIP candidate in 2017. Detailed polling has confirmed that most of the BXP vote came from people who would otherwise have tended to vote Conservative.
    4. The Bedford Asian population is predominantly Muslim (4 times the numbers of Hindus and Sikhs respectively). I think we will find in post election studies that the Muslim population remained pretty loyal to Labour. Note that the Labour vote also held up in Inner Birmingham. Corbyn's support for the Palestinian cause probably trumped accusations of anti-semitism amongst this group.
    5. Bedford is no more Leave inclined (51.9%) than the UK as a whole, and in fact a bit less inclined to Leave than the average English seat, so given that you would expect a swing from Lab to Con marginally less than the average for England.

    Beyond all this though, don't underestimate the ability of local campaigning to swing votes at the margin. You're in a better position to judge this than me.
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    ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    rcs1000 said:

    By the way, if anyone wants to bet on Jo Fancyname getting convicted of breach of an animal welfare law, I'm willing to take sizeable bets.

    You're obsessed.
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    squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,423

    Essexit said:

    felix said:

    Mr. Byronic, it might be the feeling of dislocation between one's assumptions about the country and the natural order of things and suddenly discovering that isn't the case.

    When the world isn't as you thought it was that can be quite a difficult thing with which to come to terms.

    I do feel sympathy for people in that situation. And the killer is that the referendum was there to be won, and the campaign absolutely fucked it up. A renegotiation that was seen as Neville Chamberlain's piece of paper. Warnings that were so dire they were laughed at and undermined more credible claims. Enlisting a foreign politician to try and tell people how to vote.

    Though, personally, I'd go back to Lisbon. Promising people a referendum and then reneging upon it wasn't just dodgy, it was bloody stupid.

    It has and continues to reveal very starkly that large numbers of our citizens have a profound distaste for democracy when they lose and a really nasty, arrogant and thoroughly unpleasant disdain for large swathes of the population. I guess it has always been there but Brexit has brought it to the fore and most of them have no shame whatsoever in the expression of their views.
    I do feel that the 'arrogant and unpleasant disdain' comes from the victors.
    Some of it does. Lots of it does not.

    https://twitter.com/TedUrchin/status/1210323437224415242?s=19
    Why is it unpleasant and arrogant to point out the uneducated voted Leave?
    Wrong. They were all educated, they just did not get any qualifications.
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