I would back Rayner for leadership. She seems to be the most pragmatic and relatable Labour figure.
So going from a leader with his two A levels to a leader without any qualifications at all!
I don't think that was the reason Labour lost somehow.
It's her or Starmer who seem to not be wedded to Corbynism, I'm being pragmatic as possible. Perhaps one in the cabinet and one outside.
Credentials are irrelevant - Corbyn is thick; Rayner isn’t.
Did you see her attempt to defend the Corbyn/Queen's Speech lie? That was not the work of someone with any intelligence or integrity at all.
Being a teenage mother isn't something to be ashamed of - but it isn't something on which to build a political career. Yes, she has a backstory - which, to some, makes her more relatable. But she has shown poor judgement, poor media skills and no independent political thought thus far.
She might in the future. But that moment, she offers nothing substantial
Whoever is writing BoJo's speech in the NE is getting the tone spot on.
We are witnessing a moment in our political history that will define the next decade and beyond
Hopefully Boris will succeed in achieving good trade deals outside the EU and in time we may well see EU companies moving here to take advantage of these deals
The noises coming out of Europe and especially Germany is that their real worry is just how big a competitor we will become and the one person who has changed this narrative is of course Boris
As long as labour tear themselves apart Boris will have free run to do as he wishes
Johnson does have a free run to do anything he wants but that is because we have the only electoral system in Europe that would give him that power. There is a very good reason why everywhere else in Europe opts for a system that doesn't give someone unfettered power on 43% of the votes.
At the end of the day he got a paltry 300k more votes than May. I would like to think that the Tories will bear that in mind but they won't. Don't equate what our voting system has done with what the voters actually voted for. A majority voted for parties supporting a second referendum but we won't get it.
Whoever is writing BoJo's speech in the NE is getting the tone spot on.
We are witnessing a moment in our political history that will define the next decade and beyond
Hopefully Boris will succeed in achieving good trade deals outside the EU and in time we may well see EU companies moving here to take advantage of these deals
The noises coming out of Europe and especially Germany is their real worry as just how big a competitor we become and the one person to change this narrative is of course Boris
As long as labour tear themselves apart Boris will have free run to do as he wishes
Calm down. It's only day 2.
Nothing to calm down about to be honest. This is the new reality
I think you're getting a bit ahead of yourself, this is similar to a "new dawn" after Brexit. Give it a year and see how things are going then. If it's fantastic then you'll be free to say you told me so.
If there's another recession in the next five years which seems feasible to me (I bloody hope not), the Tories are going to own it. And really the same with everything now. These are all their messes or successes to make, they have nobody else to blame now if things go wrong.
No CHC. I would never tell you I told you so. It is not in my nature to be so arrogant
I expect to see growing investment in the UK and Boris to steer a course that sets us into a new bright future away from all the doom and gloom
Brexit as a narrative is over and we will be out of the EU forging a new future. I am very confident for the future of our country and even more confident Scotland will not leave
I'm glad you have such high expectations - and I hope they come through for you.
I am going to be intensely cynical - because if the next five years are like the previous nine, very little will change.
My fear with Johnson is that beyond Brexit he has very little concrete vision for the country.
I would back Rayner for leadership. She seems to be the most pragmatic and relatable Labour figure.
So going from a leader with his two A levels to a leader without any qualifications at all!
I don't think that was the reason Labour lost somehow.
It's her or Starmer who seem to not be wedded to Corbynism, I'm being pragmatic as possible. Perhaps one in the cabinet and one outside.
How sale-able to the electorate do you think a potential PM is with zero educational qualifications?
Depends how it is presented. Major presented it as showing Britain was somewhere anyone could succeed and that the Tories wanted a true meritocracy where all strengths (academic, character, etc) were rewarded. She would have her critics for it, but why couldn't she try and spin that she'd had a life full of real world experiences and pulled herself up from the bottom of the ladder?
On Rayner again, I do think if Labour is trying to go for pragmatism and aspiration again, Rayner might do very well if she has a decent PR team. She is very relatable I think.
Whoever is writing BoJo's speech in the NE is getting the tone spot on.
We are witnessing a moment in our political history that will define the next decade and beyond
Hopefully Boris will succeed in achieving good trade deals outside the EU and in time we may well see EU companies moving here to take advantage of these deals
The noises coming out of Europe and especially Germany is their real worry as just how big a competitor we become and the one person to change this narrative is of course Boris
As long as labour tear themselves apart Boris will have free run to do as he wishes
Calm down. It's only day 2.
Nothing to calm down about to be honest. This is the new reality
I think you're getting a bit ahead of yourself, this is similar to a "new dawn" after Brexit. Give it a year and see how things are going then. If it's fantastic then you'll be free to say you told me so.
If there's another recession in the next five years which seems feasible to me (I bloody hope not), the Tories are going to own it. And really the same with everything now. These are all their messes or successes to make, they have nobody else to blame now if things go wrong.
No CHC. I would never tell you I told you so. It is not in my nature to be so arrogant
I expect to see growing investment in the UK and Boris to steer a course that sets us into a new bright future away from all the doom and gloom
Brexit as a narrative is over and we will be out of the EU forging a new future. I am very confident for the future of our country and even more confident Scotland will not leave
I'm glad you have such high expectations - and I hope they come through for you.
I am going to be intensely cynical - because if the next five years are like the previous nine, very little will change.
My fear with Johnson is that beyond Brexit he has very little concrete vision for the country.
I think you first sentence should be 'come through for us'
Whoever is writing BoJo's speech in the NE is getting the tone spot on.
We are witnessing a moment in our political history that will define the next decade and beyond
Hopefully Boris will succeed in achieving good trade deals outside the EU and in time we may well see EU companies moving here to take advantage of these deals
The noises coming out of Europe and especially Germany is their real worry as just how big a competitor we become and the one person to change this narrative is of course Boris
As long as labour tear themselves apart Boris will have free run to do as he wishes
Calm down. It's only day 2.
Nothing to calm down about to be honest. This is the new reality
I think you're getting a bit ahead of yourself, this is similar to a "new dawn" after Brexit. Give it a year and see how things are going then. If it's fantastic then you'll be free to say you told me so.
If there's another recession in the next five years which seems feasible to me (I bloody hope not), the Tories are going to own it. And really the same with everything now. These are all their messes or successes to make, they have nobody else to blame now if things go wrong.
No CHC. I would never tell you I told you so. It is not in my nature to be so arrogant
I expect to see growing investment in the UK and Boris to steer a course that sets us into a new bright future away from all the doom and gloom
Brexit as a narrative is over and we will be out of the EU forging a new future. I am very confident for the future of our country and even more confident Scotland will not leave
I'm glad you have such high expectations - and I hope they come through for you.
I am going to be intensely cynical - because if the next five years are like the previous nine, very little will change.
My fear with Johnson is that beyond Brexit he has very little concrete vision for the country.
No. He has a vision for a lot of concrete - lots of infrastructure projects
Whoever is writing BoJo's speech in the NE is getting the tone spot on.
We are witnessing a moment in our political history that will define the next decade and beyond
Hopefully Boris will succeed in achieving good trade deals outside the EU and in time we may well see EU companies moving here to take advantage of these deals
The noises coming out of Europe and especially Germany is their real worry as just how big a competitor we become and the one person to change this narrative is of course Boris
As long as labour tear themselves apart Boris will have free run to do as he wishes
Calm down. It's only day 2.
Nothing to calm down about to be honest. This is the new reality
I think you're getting a bit ahead of yourself, this is similar to a "new dawn" after Brexit. Give it a year and see how things are going then. If it's fantastic then you'll be free to say you told me so.
If there's another recession in the next five years which seems feasible to me (I bloody hope not), the Tories are going to own it. And really the same with everything now. These are all their messes or successes to make, they have nobody else to blame now if things go wrong.
No CHC. I would never tell you I told you so. It is not in my nature to be so arrogant
I expect to see growing investment in the UK and Boris to steer a course that sets us into a new bright future away from all the doom and gloom
Brexit as a narrative is over and we will be out of the EU forging a new future. I am very confident for the future of our country and even more confident Scotland will not leave
I'm glad you have such high expectations - and I hope they come through for you.
I am going to be intensely cynical - because if the next five years are like the previous nine, very little will change.
My fear with Johnson is that beyond Brexit he has very little concrete vision for the country.
I think you first sentence should be 'come through for us'
I'm afraid I will never be one of your kind - but all the best.
Whoever is writing BoJo's speech in the NE is getting the tone spot on.
We are witnessing a moment in our political history that will define the next decade and beyond
Hopefully Boris will succeed in achieving good trade deals outside the EU and in time we may well see EU companies moving here to take advantage of these deals
The noises coming out of Europe and especially Germany is their real worry as just how big a competitor we become and the one person to change this narrative is of course Boris
As long as labour tear themselves apart Boris will have free run to do as he wishes
Calm down. It's only day 2.
Nothing to calm down about to be honest. This is the new reality
I think you're getting a bit ahead of yourself, this is similar to a "new dawn" after Brexit. Give it a year and see how things are going then. If it's fantastic then you'll be free to say you told me so.
If there's another recession in the next five years which seems feasible to me (I bloody hope not), the Tories are going to own it. And really the same with everything now. These are all their messes or successes to make, they have nobody else to blame now if things go wrong.
No CHC. I would never tell you I told you so. It is not in my nature to be so arrogant
I expect to see growing investment in the UK and Boris to steer a course that sets us into a new bright future away from all the doom and gloom
Brexit as a narrative is over and we will be out of the EU forging a new future. I am very confident for the future of our country and even more confident Scotland will not leave
I'm glad you have such high expectations - and I hope they come through for you.
I am going to be intensely cynical - because if the next five years are like the previous nine, very little will change.
My fear with Johnson is that beyond Brexit he has very little concrete vision for the country.
I think you first sentence should be 'come through for us'
I'm afraid I will never be one of your kind - but all the best.
But coming through for us is what we should all aspire to
As always some of the best Brexit analysis is Irish. This article explains how Johnson's lack of consultation and his dishonesty over the Irish Protocol to the Withdrawal Agreement is coming back to bite:
The reason I asked about the individual seats was because the UK-wide picture seems to be the Tories pretty much performed as per 2017, it's how badly Labour went down, losing 3 million votes, that made the Tory victory so large.
If Labour is able to get out of London, get out of the 2010s, get a patriotic and credible leader, dump Corbyn's team and look reasonable again, I wholeheartedly believe those 3 million voters can be won over again.
It will not be easy - but Labour can do it if it's prepared to listen. My fear so far is that they are not.
Yes, we shouldn’t lose sight of the fact that the Tories’ vote share is pretty much the same as Mrs May received after a disastrous campaign.
There is now a huge opportunity for the Tories to capitalise on this result, but also huge risks. I don't think the assumptions that big seat swings aren’t reversible in a single election hold any more.
Nevertheless the task that lies ahead of Labour, in particular, is not choosing a more credible prospective PM, but choosing someone who can repeat Kinnocks’s role of mapping out a future direction for the party and using a mixture of inspiration and arm twisting to get the party to follow. Labour’s real problem is that it doesn’t have many very strong characters in its raft of potential next leaders.
Does anyone know whether any of the print editions of the newspapers today have a section with all the constituency results? I find it easier to read them on one page rather than clicking to get each result.
Whoever is writing BoJo's speech in the NE is getting the tone spot on.
We are witnessing a moment in our political history that will define the next decade and beyond
Hopefully Boris will succeed in achieving good trade deals outside the EU and in time we may well see EU companies moving here to take advantage of these deals
The noises coming out of Europe and especially Germany is that their real worry is just how big a competitor we will become and the one person who has changed this narrative is of course Boris
As long as labour tear themselves apart Boris will have free run to do as he wishes
Have you ever heard of a thing called the happy medium?
If we didn’t know already who the new SeanT is, people would be wondering whether it is you.
Does anyone know whether any of the print editions of the newspapers today have a section with all the constituency results? I find it easier to read them on one page rather than clicking to get each result.
Yes, the Times always produces a supplement in today's paper.
Does anyone know whether any of the print editions of the newspapers today have a section with all the constituency results? I find it easier to read them on one page rather than clicking to get each result.
They still have another 100 Leave seats to lose if they continue along the 2019 path, one of them is Yvette Cooper's who will probably lose her seat in the next election if she and Labour don't reverse course on Working Class social issues.
Not really sure why May stood again to be honest. She should have just retired from the scene. I hope that there is a shake up in the cabinet starting with Chancellor but I am not sure I see a place for her again.
I like senior back benchers in the commons, it makes a real difference and is a small counter weight against the rule of the party leaders and whips. We have lost many talented senior MPs so quite happy she is back.
Fair point. I really meant from her point of view. She seems to have a really happy and close marriage. She should retire and enjoy their remaining years of good health. I think she was the worst PM of my life time, even worse than Brown, but I wish her no ill will now.
Whoever is writing BoJo's speech in the NE is getting the tone spot on.
We are witnessing a moment in our political history that will define the next decade and beyond
Hopefully Boris will succeed in achieving good trade deals outside the EU and in time we may well see EU companies moving here to take advantage of these deals
The noises coming out of Europe and especially Germany is that their real worry is just how big a competitor we will become and the one person who has changed this narrative is of course Boris
As long as labour tear themselves apart Boris will have free run to do as he wishes
Have you ever heard of a thing called the happy medium?
If we didn’t know already who the new SeanT is, people would be wondering whether it is you.
No - I am Big G North Wales and am expressing a confident future
Whoever is writing BoJo's speech in the NE is getting the tone spot on.
We are witnessing a moment in our political history that will define the next decade and beyond
Hopefully Boris will succeed in achieving good trade deals outside the EU and in time we may well see EU companies moving here to take advantage of these deals
The noises coming out of Europe and especially Germany is their real worry as just how big a competitor we become and the one person to change this narrative is of course Boris
As long as labour tear themselves apart Boris will have free run to do as he wishes
Calm down. It's only day 2.
Nothing to calm down about to be honest. This is the new reality
I think you're getting a bit ahead of yourself, this is similar to a "new dawn" after Brexit. Give it a year and see how things are going then. If it's fantastic then you'll be free to say you told me so.
If there's another recession in the next five years which seems feasible to me (I bloody hope not), the Tories are going to own it. And really the same with everything now. These are all their messes or successes to make, they have nobody else to blame now if things go wrong.
No CHC. I would never tell you I told you so. It is not in my nature to be so arrogant
I expect to see growing investment in the UK and Boris to steer a course that sets us into a new bright future away from all the doom and gloom
Brexit as a narrative is over and we will be out of the EU forging a new future. I am very confident for the future of our country and even more confident Scotland will not leave
We will have to negotiate with trading blocs which are much bigger than us and who will obviously be trying to get the best deals for themselves. Growing investment in the UK will only make sense for them if we are a low wage economy, if our companies are relatively cheap due to a falling £, or have skills they can't find in Germany or elsewhere in the EU. Otherwise they are likely to invest inside the larger markets, as Tesla is already doing. It's all very well to be confident and want a bright future away from doom and gloom, but you have to be realistic too. If Boris can face down the ERG and go for an extremely soft Brexit maybe it won't be as bad as it could be.
Whoever is writing BoJo's speech in the NE is getting the tone spot on.
We are witnessing a moment in our political history that will define the next decade and beyond
Hopefully Boris will succeed in achieving good trade deals outside the EU and in time we may well see EU companies moving here to take advantage of these deals
The noises coming out of Europe and especially Germany is their real worry as just how big a competitor we become and the one person to change this narrative is of course Boris
As long as labour tear themselves apart Boris will have free run to do as he wishes
Calm down. It's only day 2.
Nothing to calm down about to be honest. This is the new reality
I think you're getting a bit ahead of yourself, this is similar to a "new dawn" after Brexit. Give it a year and see how things are going then. If it's fantastic then you'll be free to say you told me so.
If there's another recession in the next five years which seems feasible to me (I bloody hope not), the Tories are going to own it. And really the same with everything now. These are all their messes or successes to make, they have nobody else to blame now if things go wrong.
No CHC. I would never tell you I told you so. It is not in my nature to be so arrogant
I expect to see growing investment in the UK and Boris to steer a course that sets us into a new bright future away from all the doom and gloom
Brexit as a narrative is over and we will be out of the EU forging a new future. I am very confident for the future of our country and even more confident Scotland will not leave
I'm glad you have such high expectations - and I hope they come through for you.
I am going to be intensely cynical - because if the next five years are like the previous nine, very little will change.
My fear with Johnson is that beyond Brexit he has very little concrete vision for the country.
I think you first sentence should be 'come through for us'
If there is anything the last eight/nine years on this site has taught me, it's that there is no "us". A sad and terrible thing.
Whoever is writing BoJo's speech in the NE is getting the tone spot on.
We are witnessing a moment in our political history that will define the next decade and beyond
Hopefully Boris will succeed in achieving good trade deals outside the EU and in time we may well see EU companies moving here to take advantage of these deals
The noises coming out of Europe and especially Germany is their real worry as just how big a competitor we become and the one person to change this narrative is of course Boris
As long as labour tear themselves apart Boris will have free run to do as he wishes
Calm down. It's only day 2.
Nothing to calm down about to be honest. This is the new reality
I think you're getting a bit ahead of yourself, this is similar to a "new dawn" after Brexit. Give it a year and see how things are going then. If it's fantastic then you'll be free to say you told me so.
If there's another recession in the next five years which seems feasible to me (I bloody hope not), the Tories are going to own it. And really the same with everything now. These are all their messes or successes to make, they have nobody else to blame now if things go wrong.
No CHC. I would never tell you I told you so. It is not in my nature to be so arrogant
I expect to see growing investment in the UK and Boris to steer a course that sets us into a new bright future away from all the doom and gloom
Brexit as a narrative is over and we will be out of the EU forging a new future. I am very confident for the future of our country and even more confident Scotland will not leave
I'm glad you have such high expectations - and I hope they come through for you.
I am going to be intensely cynical - because if the next five years are like the previous nine, very little will change.
My fear with Johnson is that beyond Brexit he has very little concrete vision for the country.
I think you first sentence should be 'come through for us'
I'm afraid I will never be one of your kind - but all the best.
But coming through for us is what we should all aspire to
I think Hitler said something like that. I just can never get behind a Tory Government led by that man I'm afraid.
I would back Rayner for leadership. She seems to be the most pragmatic and relatable Labour figure.
So going from a leader with his two A levels to a leader without any qualifications at all!
I don't think that was the reason Labour lost somehow.
It's her or Starmer who seem to not be wedded to Corbynism, I'm being pragmatic as possible. Perhaps one in the cabinet and one outside.
How sale-able to the electorate do you think a potential PM is with zero educational qualifications?
You make a fair point - which is why it's even more depressing that this is the highest bar of the current Labour Party.
There are some excellent candidates that would have wide appeal but will not be eligible because they are not from the far left & will be blocked by the Momentum mob..
You really think that Labour would have had such a hammering if they had had a leader like Dan Jarvis or Wes Streeting without the absurd far left dogma?
I would back Rayner for leadership. She seems to be the most pragmatic and relatable Labour figure.
So going from a leader with his two A levels to a leader without any qualifications at all!
I don't think that was the reason Labour lost somehow.
It's her or Starmer who seem to not be wedded to Corbynism, I'm being pragmatic as possible. Perhaps one in the cabinet and one outside.
How sale-able to the electorate do you think a potential PM is with zero educational qualifications?
You make a fair point - which is why it's even more depressing that this is the highest bar of the current Labour Party.
There are some excellent candidates that would have wide appeal but will not be eligible because they are not from the far left & will be blocked by the Momentum mob..
You really think that Labour would have had such a hammering if they had had a leader like Dan Jarvis or Wes Streeting without the absurd far left dogma?
But that was my point, the Labour options are so dire because of the state the party is in.
Whoever is writing BoJo's speech in the NE is getting the tone spot on.
We are witnessing a moment in our political history that will define the next decade and beyond
Hopefully Boris will succeed in achieving good trade deals outside the EU and in time we may well see EU companies moving here to take advantage of these deals
The noises coming out of Europe and especially Germany is their real worry as just how big a competitor we become and the one person to change this narrative is of course Boris
As long as labour tear themselves apart Boris will have free run to do as he wishes
Calm down. It's only day 2.
Nothing to calm down about to be honest. This is the new reality
I think you're getting a bit ahead of yourself, this is similar to a "new dawn" after Brexit. Give it a year and see how things are going then. If it's fantastic then you'll be free to say you told me so.
If there's another recession in the next five years which seems feasible to me (I bloody hope not), the Tories are going to own it. And really the same with everything now. These are all their messes or successes to make, they have nobody else to blame now if things go wrong.
No CHC. I would never tell you I told you so. It is not in my nature to be so arrogant
I expect to see growing investment in the UK and Boris to steer a course that sets us into a new bright future away from all the doom and gloom
Brexit as a narrative is over and we will be out of the EU forging a new future. I am very confident for the future of our country and even more confident Scotland will not leave
I'm glad you have such high expectations - and I hope they come through for you.
I am going to be intensely cynical - because if the next five years are like the previous nine, very little will change.
My fear with Johnson is that beyond Brexit he has very little concrete vision for the country.
I think you first sentence should be 'come through for us'
I'm afraid I will never be one of your kind - but all the best.
But coming through for us is what we should all aspire to
I think Hitler said something like that. I just can never get behind a Tory Government led by that man I'm afraid.
I take great exception to that remark and is unlike your sensible recent postings
On Rayner again, I do think if Labour is trying to go for pragmatism and aspiration again, Rayner might do very well if she has a decent PR team. She is very relatable I think.
I think the opposite. Young grandmas are generally pretty unrelatable. I'm 42 and not even a parent yet. I don't think I have anyone remotely like Rayner in my own circle - which does, regrettably, include some Thornberrys and Starmers and even Long-Baileys.
I think looking to the future the Boris government:
1. Boris needs to start looking out for working people, even at the expense of retirees. They have nowhere to go, working people will go back to Labour if we don't produce the goods.
2. He is clearly much better at judging the way the wind is blowing than May was, probably better than Dave as well who got 37% GB votes vs Boris on 44%.
3. Taxes are going up. We already know that CT is going to stay at 19% instead of going down to 17% as was previously planned. In addition I would like to suggest (to the CCHQ bods reading this):
Raising CGT on residential property to 40% and 45%.
Making retirees pay full NI on income and pension income.
An annual 3% value surcharge on rented residential property.
Increase the dividend tax rate to match income tax+NI instead of just matching income tax as it does at the moment.
All of these together will raise over £12bn per year which can be spent on redressing the generational balance and on the NHS.
Ultimately property, landlords and old people are taxed too little and working people are taxed too much. We now have to live up to being the party of working people.
We also have 5 years to fix the property market and get more people into home ownership and get rid of the parasite landlords that leech off working people.
It's time to show that we are the true party of working people and Labour have only got Marxist policies.
Not really sure why May stood again to be honest. She should have just retired from the scene. I hope that there is a shake up in the cabinet starting with Chancellor but I am not sure I see a place for her again.
I like senior back benchers in the commons, it makes a real difference and is a small counter weight against the rule of the party leaders and whips. We have lost many talented senior MPs so quite happy she is back.
Fair point. I really meant from her point of view. She seems to have a really happy and close marriage. She should retire and enjoy their remaining years of good health. I think she was the worst PM of my life time, even worse than Brown, but I wish her no ill will now.
Apparently she has no hobbies or interests outside of politics. Being a constituency MP is her ideal retirement.
I would back Rayner for leadership. She seems to be the most pragmatic and relatable Labour figure.
So going from a leader with his two A levels to a leader without any qualifications at all!
I don't think that was the reason Labour lost somehow.
It's her or Starmer who seem to not be wedded to Corbynism, I'm being pragmatic as possible. Perhaps one in the cabinet and one outside.
How sale-able to the electorate do you think a potential PM is with zero educational qualifications?
You make a fair point - which is why it's even more depressing that this is the highest bar of the current Labour Party.
There are some excellent candidates that would have wide appeal but will not be eligible because they are not from the far left & will be blocked by the Momentum mob..
You really think that Labour would have had such a hammering if they had had a leader like Dan Jarvis or Wes Streeting without the absurd far left dogma?
Wes Streeting is my local MP, wouldn't mind seeing him as a future leader.
Does anyone know whether any of the print editions of the newspapers today have a section with all the constituency results? I find it easier to read them on one page rather than clicking to get each result.
Does anyone know whether any of the print editions of the newspapers today have a section with all the constituency results? I find it easier to read them on one page rather than clicking to get each result.
Yes, the Times always produces a supplement in today's paper.
Thanks, I thought they might have discontinued it and told people to look on their website instead.
I would back Rayner for leadership. She seems to be the most pragmatic and relatable Labour figure.
So going from a leader with his two A levels to a leader without any qualifications at all!
I don't think that was the reason Labour lost somehow.
It's her or Starmer who seem to not be wedded to Corbynism, I'm being pragmatic as possible. Perhaps one in the cabinet and one outside.
How sale-able to the electorate do you think a potential PM is with zero educational qualifications?
You make a fair point - which is why it's even more depressing that this is the highest bar of the current Labour Party.
There are some excellent candidates that would have wide appeal but will not be eligible because they are not from the far left & will be blocked by the Momentum mob..
You really think that Labour would have had such a hammering if they had had a leader like Dan Jarvis or Wes Streeting without the absurd far left dogma?
But that was my point, the Labour options are so dire because of the state the party is in.
If that really is the situation,and it certainly looks like that at the moment, then it will be a very long road back to power. After the Michael Foot extremism that was somewhat milder than Corbyn, it took 14 years and three leaders.
Does anyone know whether any of the print editions of the newspapers today have a section with all the constituency results? I find it easier to read them on one page rather than clicking to get each result.
Yes, the Times always produces a supplement in today's paper.
Thanks, I thought they might have discontinued it and told people to look on their website instead.
Couldn't see one in the Guardian, but there is one in the Times.
Andy_JS, if the Guardian does have one, can you confirm please?
On Rayner again, I do think if Labour is trying to go for pragmatism and aspiration again, Rayner might do very well if she has a decent PR team. She is very relatable I think.
I think the opposite. Young grandmas are generally pretty unrelatable. I'm 42 and not even a parent yet. I don't think I have anyone remotely like Rayner in my own circle - which does, regrettably, include some Thornberrys and Starmers and even Long-Baileys.
Unfortunately I have to agree. Being a grandmother at 37, to most people, indicates you've screwed up somewhere. It's not fair but it is true.
I think looking to the future the Boris government:
1. Boris needs to start looking out for working people, even at the expense of retirees. They have nowhere to go, working people will go back to Labour if we don't produce the goods.
2. He is clearly much better at judging the way the wind is blowing than May was, probably better than Dave as well who got 37% GB votes vs Boris on 44%.
Not really sure why May stood again to be honest. She should have just retired from the scene. I hope that there is a shake up in the cabinet starting with Chancellor but I am not sure I see a place for her again.
I like senior back benchers in the commons, it makes a real difference and is a small counter weight against the rule of the party leaders and whips. We have lost many talented senior MPs so quite happy she is back.
Fair point. I really meant from her point of view. She seems to have a really happy and close marriage. She should retire and enjoy their remaining years of good health. I think she was the worst PM of my life time, even worse than Brown, but I wish her no ill will now.
The worst prime minister of your lifetime was David Cameron, who got all the big calls wrong: austerity, Europe, Scotland. He wrecked the armed forces and decimated the police. He threw a bit more petrol onto the Middle East, and let immigration grow to a factor of 10 more than what he'd pledged. Ironically, if you had asked central casting for a Conservative prime minister, they'd have sent you David Cameron, and I think people are still inclined to overrate him because he did look the part.
I take great exception to that remark and is unlike your sensible recent postings
I wasn't saying you were like Hitler, or Johnson was. I'm just saying that blind belief is rarely a good thing - and you sound a bit like a deluded Corbynite ironically, just on the other side.
On Rayner again, I do think if Labour is trying to go for pragmatism and aspiration again, Rayner might do very well if she has a decent PR team. She is very relatable I think.
I think the opposite. Young grandmas are generally pretty unrelatable. I'm 42 and not even a parent yet. I don't think I have anyone remotely like Rayner in my own circle - which does, regrettably, include some Thornberrys and Starmers and even Long-Baileys.
Unfortunately I have to agree. Being a grandmother at 37, to most people, indicates you've screwed up somewhere. It's not fair but it is true.
Surely it indicates rather that you’ve been screwed, somewhere?
Does anyone know whether any of the print editions of the newspapers today have a section with all the constituency results? I find it easier to read them on one page rather than clicking to get each result.
Telegraph too. With the swings and the previous result and everything....
Not really sure why May stood again to be honest. She should have just retired from the scene. I hope that there is a shake up in the cabinet starting with Chancellor but I am not sure I see a place for her again.
I like senior back benchers in the commons, it makes a real difference and is a small counter weight against the rule of the party leaders and whips. We have lost many talented senior MPs so quite happy she is back.
Fair point. I really meant from her point of view. She seems to have a really happy and close marriage. She should retire and enjoy their remaining years of good health. I think she was the worst PM of my life time, even worse than Brown, but I wish her no ill will now.
The worst prime minister of your lifetime was David Cameron, who got all the big calls wrong: austerity, Europe, Scotland. He wrecked the armed forces and decimated the police. He threw a bit more petrol onto the Middle East, and let immigration grow to a factor of 10 more than what he'd pledged. Ironically, if you had asked central casting for a Conservative prime minister, they'd have sent you David Cameron, and I think people are still inclined to overrate him because he did look the part.
I’ll write you down as a ‘maybe.’
And you’re wrong, incidentally. Gordon Brown still wins that contest although the competition continues to get stiffer.
Not really sure why May stood again to be honest. She should have just retired from the scene. I hope that there is a shake up in the cabinet starting with Chancellor but I am not sure I see a place for her again.
I like senior back benchers in the commons, it makes a real difference and is a small counter weight against the rule of the party leaders and whips. We have lost many talented senior MPs so quite happy she is back.
Fair point. I really meant from her point of view. She seems to have a really happy and close marriage. She should retire and enjoy their remaining years of good health. I think she was the worst PM of my life time, even worse than Brown, but I wish her no ill will now.
Apparently she has no hobbies or interests outside of politics. Being a constituency MP is her ideal retirement.
The reference is rather too American for most, I suspect. Perhaps it is my paranoia after all the reports of Russian trolls but quite a few pb comments over the past few days have used Americanisms or American spellings. Too much Fox News and Netflix, perhaps.
Ultimately property, landlords and old people are taxed too little and working people are taxed too much. We now have to live up to being the party of working people.
I agree with you (quite strongly in fact) but I think you may misunderstand the nature of this administration: it's not built to meet the needs of working people and the young, it's built to use them to service the needs of the rich and the old. Instead of taxing property and landlords, it'll divert minds with culture-war stuff and by some high-publicity things like compensating the WASPI women or diverting a train line or two. Business restructuring will go to business needs (business parks, tax breaks, etc), not people needs (other than the NHS, see below) and high-profile construction projects - more hospitals, etc.
The age structure is changing, and the future will have many more old and very old retired people, and they will vote Con religiously. That is where resources will be diverted to, and the young and working people will be taxed to do it.
So although I would like to see the changes you propose, I don't think that's what the current administration will actually do.
My hope is that Rayner will compromise and move to the right, not further to the left.
If that means Momemtum and half the membership go, then so be it.
I think the Labour membership really does not appreciate the dire situation Labour is in. It needs to make changes quickly and prepare early for GE2024 if it wants to come back.
Labour need thousands of new centre left members to overpower momentum
I hope for the sake of the country these people join then.
The reference is rather too American for most, I suspect. Perhaps it is my paranoia after all the reports of Russian trolls but quite a few pb comments over the past few days have used Americanisms or American spellings. Too much Fox News and Netflix, perhaps.
I don't really know why people feel compelled to make comparisons. This election was most like; Boris vs Corbyn.
Not really sure why May stood again to be honest. She should have just retired from the scene. I hope that there is a shake up in the cabinet starting with Chancellor but I am not sure I see a place for her again.
I like senior back benchers in the commons, it makes a real difference and is a small counter weight against the rule of the party leaders and whips. We have lost many talented senior MPs so quite happy she is back.
Fair point. I really meant from her point of view. She seems to have a really happy and close marriage. She should retire and enjoy their remaining years of good health. I think she was the worst PM of my life time, even worse than Brown, but I wish her no ill will now.
Apparently she has no hobbies or interests outside of politics. Being a constituency MP is her ideal retirement.
Not quite true - she at least has cricket.
she chips in with local sporting events, marshalls the half marathon every year.
The comment about senior backbenchers is apposite.
It made no difference. Mike Freer would have won either way. She stood in the wrong seat because she was blinded by Brexit and wanted to oust a Tory instead of standing in a winnable seat like Harrow West. Our candidate was complete crap there and Luciana would have drawn off a lot of votes from Labour and from us to come through the middle there.
I think looking to the future the Boris government:
1. Boris needs to start looking out for working people, even at the expense of retirees. They have nowhere to go, working people will go back to Labour if we don't produce the goods.
2. He is clearly much better at judging the way the wind is blowing than May was, probably better than Dave as well who got 37% GB votes vs Boris on 44%.
May & Dave didn't have Cummings.
If Cummings plays the next five years as well as he's played the last five.....be afraid, Labour.
I think looking to the future the Boris government:
1. Boris needs to start looking out for working people, even at the expense of retirees. They have nowhere to go, working people will go back to Labour if we don't produce the goods.
2. He is clearly much better at judging the way the wind is blowing than May was, probably better than Dave as well who got 37% GB votes vs Boris on 44%.
May & Dave didn't have Cummings.
If Cummings plays the next five years as well as he's played the last five.....be afraid, Labour.
Be very afraid.
If Cummings is around for five years, god alone knows what state the civil service will be in after his remodelling.
Not really sure why May stood again to be honest. She should have just retired from the scene. I hope that there is a shake up in the cabinet starting with Chancellor but I am not sure I see a place for her again.
I like senior back benchers in the commons, it makes a real difference and is a small counter weight against the rule of the party leaders and whips. We have lost many talented senior MPs so quite happy she is back.
Fair point. I really meant from her point of view. She seems to have a really happy and close marriage. She should retire and enjoy their remaining years of good health. I think she was the worst PM of my life time, even worse than Brown, but I wish her no ill will now.
Apparently she has no hobbies or interests outside of politics. Being a constituency MP is her ideal retirement.
I thought she was interested in church activities, cricket and charity work.
Does anyone know whether any of the print editions of the newspapers today have a section with all the constituency results? I find it easier to read them on one page rather than clicking to get each result.
Telegraph too. With the swings and the previous result and everything....
Nice to know some traditions haven't been ditched!
I think looking to the future the Boris government:
1. Boris needs to start looking out for working people, even at the expense of retirees. They have nowhere to go, working people will go back to Labour if we don't produce the goods.
2. He is clearly much better at judging the way the wind is blowing than May was, probably better than Dave as well who got 37% GB votes vs Boris on 44%.
May & Dave didn't have Cummings.
If Cummings plays the next five years as well as he's played the last five.....be afraid, Labour.
Be very afraid.
If Cummings is around for five years, god alone knows what state the civil service will be in after his remodelling.
If it’s the same state he left education in, the country will be more buggered than a reluctant Turkish conscript.
Being a grandmother at 37, to most people, indicates you've screwed up somewhere. It's not fair but it is true.
This is a post-war societal change. It wasn't that uncommon once for teenage men and women to marry and start a family, and women in their late twenties were categorised as "older mothers". Now you have graduates starting families in their thirties and those who gave birth in their teens are assumed to be degenerate or scroungers.
I'm happy with Starmer - but I think he'll have a problem relating to those Northern heartlands.
More pertinently the Northern heartlands will have a problem relating to him.
When people nominate X as party leader (or presidential nominee in the States) it can be illuminating to watch a few recent Youtube clips for a minute or so each, in order to check the "first impression" factor. I'm not sure Starmer passes the test.
I posted this last night. Is required viewing. And to continue the point in Hodges tweet, Maomentum wouldn't send anybody to Stoke to help Ruth Smeeth. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7eG1kbdr0M&
Also, I wake up today and of course Corbyn / McDonnell don't take any responsibility, keeping saying the Tories are going to kill the country and McIRA was banging on about the #1 issue facing the country is Climate Change.
Now, it might be a huge issue, but do you think Flat Cap Fred is sitting there thinking its shit around here, poor education, poor jobs, high crime, you know what is the #1 thing to me, what those posh tw@ts gluing themselves to electric buses are banging on about?
The other thing with Labour's constant message of negativity. If Boris doesn't trash the country, well you look a bit stupid. They made the same mistake when he became Mayor. They claimed all the immigrants would flee, he would trash the places, it would be total chaos. When it wasn't, then trying to say yes, but, no, but, yeah, you have a bit of a problem.
I think my result of the night (though no one elses) was Mansfield. May only managed to take 4 bricks out the red wall in 2017. 2 had sub 1k majorities, 2 had sub 3k majorities going into this election. All now have majorities of 12,000 or more (Walsall South, Stoke South, NE Derbyshire and Mansfield). Ben Bradley has managed to turn a seat the Tories never won (came close in 1987) into a 16k majority with 64% of the vote.
It’s all rather incredible and must give CCHQ a lot of positivity that if they look after the red wall and listen to it then these people won’t go back to a Labour.
I will remain extremely unconvinced that Johnson actually plans to make the country better until I actually see some progress. To this date I remain convinced he is only here to win elections.
You don't have to look much further than London for that, when most of his policies have come unravelled since he left. His biggest achievement in London is probably not completely destroying it.
I'm happy with Starmer - but I think he'll have a problem relating to those Northern heartlands.
Starmer will get a whole body of poor decisions as DPP, he would be a bloody awful choice. The press would rip him to pieces.
Who on Earth then?
Jess, I’d say. The only one of the contenders who’d make Boris uncomfortable. I Think it’ll probably be Rayner though - and she would, of course, be better than RLB.
I will remain extremely unconvinced that Johnson actually plans to make the country better until I actually see some progress. To this date I remain convinced he is only here to win elections.
You don't have to look much further than London for that, when most of his policies have come unravelled since he left. His biggest achievement in London is probably not completely destroying it.
The night tube and banning alcohol on it is the biggest achievement. It has made coming home from a night out incredibly safe. I haven't looked it up but I expect that the number of rapes, assaults and sexual assaults has gone down because of it.
I think my result of the night (though no one elses) was Mansfield. May only managed to take 4 bricks out the red wall in 2017. 2 had sub 1k majorities, 2 had sub 3k majorities going into this election. All now have majorities of 12,000 or more (Walsall South, Stoke South, NE Derbyshire and Mansfield). Ben Bradley has managed to turn a seat the Tories never won (came close in 1987) into a 16k majority with 64% of the vote.
It’s all rather incredible and must give CCHQ a lot of positivity that if they look after the red wall and listen to it then these people won’t go back to a Labour.
Have you done much analysis on whether these majorities were down to Labour voters staying at home or genuine switchers?
I remain broadly unconvinced that "get Brexit done" is going to be enough to keep these communities in the long run. But Labour needs to win them back rather than just assuming they'll come back.
I will remain extremely unconvinced that Johnson actually plans to make the country better until I actually see some progress. To this date I remain convinced he is only here to win elections.
You don't have to look much further than London for that, when most of his policies have come unravelled since he left. His biggest achievement in London is probably not completely destroying it.
The night tube and banning alcohol on it is the biggest achievement. It has made coming home from a night out incredibly safe. I haven't looked it up but I expect that the number of rapes, assaults and sexual assaults has gone down because of it.
Wasn't the night tube a Khan thing?
He can have alcohol, fair enough.
I don't know what the equivalent of alcohol banning would be in the country, doesn't seem like a lot to me.
I think my result of the night (though no one elses) was Mansfield. May only managed to take 4 bricks out the red wall in 2017. 2 had sub 1k majorities, 2 had sub 3k majorities going into this election. All now have majorities of 12,000 or more (Walsall South, Stoke South, NE Derbyshire and Mansfield). Ben Bradley has managed to turn a seat the Tories never won (came close in 1987) into a 16k majority with 64% of the vote.
It’s all rather incredible and must give CCHQ a lot of positivity that if they look after the red wall and listen to it then these people won’t go back to a Labour.
Have you done much analysis on whether these majorities were down to Labour voters staying at home or genuine switchers?
I remain broadly unconvinced that "get Brexit done" is going to be enough to keep these communities in the long run. But Labour needs to win them back rather than just assuming they'll come back.
Yeah, after being taken for granted by Labour for donkeys years, actually having some attention paid to them might make them stick in the blue column next time around.
I will remain extremely unconvinced that Johnson actually plans to make the country better until I actually see some progress. To this date I remain convinced he is only here to win elections.
You don't have to look much further than London for that, when most of his policies have come unravelled since he left. His biggest achievement in London is probably not completely destroying it.
The night tube and banning alcohol on it is the biggest achievement. It has made coming home from a night out incredibly safe. I haven't looked it up but I expect that the number of rapes, assaults and sexual assaults has gone down because of it.
Wasn't the night tube a Khan thing?
He can have alcohol, fair enough.
I don't know what the equivalent of alcohol banning would be in the country, doesn't seem like a lot to me.
No it was a Boris thing that the unions blocked for political reasons until Khan became Mayor.
I'm happy with Starmer - but I think he'll have a problem relating to those Northern heartlands.
More pertinently the Northern heartlands will have a problem relating to him.
When people nominate X as party leader (or presidential nominee in the States) it can be illuminating to watch a few recent Youtube clips for a minute or so each, in order to check the "first impression" factor. I'm not sure Starmer passes the test.
It's all changed since Wilson with his strong Huddersfield accent got 48% of the vote in 1966. >50% of the population lives S of the Severn-Wash line. More people vote Lab (%) in Hastings, Ipswich, Luton, Reading or M.Keynes than in Mansfield, Sunderland, Sedgefield or Bolsover (yes really, if Wikipedia is right).
Not really sure why May stood again to be honest. She should have just retired from the scene. I hope that there is a shake up in the cabinet starting with Chancellor but I am not sure I see a place for her again.
I like senior back benchers in the commons, it makes a real difference and is a small counter weight against the rule of the party leaders and whips. We have lost many talented senior MPs so quite happy she is back.
Fair point. I really meant from her point of view. She seems to have a really happy and close marriage. She should retire and enjoy their remaining years of good health. I think she was the worst PM of my life time, even worse than Brown, but I wish her no ill will now.
Apparently she has no hobbies or interests outside of politics. Being a constituency MP is her ideal retirement.
I thought she was interested in church activities, cricket and charity work.
She is also quite a serious walker / hiker.
Not sure exactly what, but I think she does things for Diabetes Charities such as JDRF. Certainly they had her attention when PM.
I think my result of the night (though no one elses) was Mansfield. May only managed to take 4 bricks out the red wall in 2017. 2 had sub 1k majorities, 2 had sub 3k majorities going into this election. All now have majorities of 12,000 or more (Walsall South, Stoke South, NE Derbyshire and Mansfield). Ben Bradley has managed to turn a seat the Tories never won (came close in 1987) into a 16k majority with 64% of the vote.
It’s all rather incredible and must give CCHQ a lot of positivity that if they look after the red wall and listen to it then these people won’t go back to a Labour.
Have you done much analysis on whether these majorities were down to Labour voters staying at home or genuine switchers?
I remain broadly unconvinced that "get Brexit done" is going to be enough to keep these communities in the long run. But Labour needs to win them back rather than just assuming they'll come back.
I am pleased many of the Red Wall seats fell.
Because these constituencies & people have been ignored and taken for granted.
Even if the Tories do nothing, Labour -- for the first time in decades -- will have to think what these communities want, they will have to seal a new deal with these people.
I saw the Labour candidate that was standing against IDS last night on Newsnight. It just highlighted the issue to me, according to her it was Rupert Murdoch's fault, it was Tony Blair's fault, everything said about Corbyn was categorically untrue and a smear. She was on with Jack Straw and she wasn't going to listen to a word he said.
I will remain extremely unconvinced that Johnson actually plans to make the country better until I actually see some progress. To this date I remain convinced he is only here to win elections.
You don't have to look much further than London for that, when most of his policies have come unravelled since he left. His biggest achievement in London is probably not completely destroying it.
The night tube and banning alcohol on it is the biggest achievement. It has made coming home from a night out incredibly safe. I haven't looked it up but I expect that the number of rapes, assaults and sexual assaults has gone down because of it.
No one seems to bother with alcohol ban. I see people drinking on the tube all the time and nobody does anything to stop it.
I think my result of the night (though no one elses) was Mansfield. May only managed to take 4 bricks out the red wall in 2017. 2 had sub 1k majorities, 2 had sub 3k majorities going into this election. All now have majorities of 12,000 or more (Walsall South, Stoke South, NE Derbyshire and Mansfield). Ben Bradley has managed to turn a seat the Tories never won (came close in 1987) into a 16k majority with 64% of the vote.
It’s all rather incredible and must give CCHQ a lot of positivity that if they look after the red wall and listen to it then these people won’t go back to a Labour.
Have you done much analysis on whether these majorities were down to Labour voters staying at home or genuine switchers?
I remain broadly unconvinced that "get Brexit done" is going to be enough to keep these communities in the long run. But Labour needs to win them back rather than just assuming they'll come back.
No Brexit Party helped but Tories up 8k and Labour down 7k. I assume 2.5k UKIP votes mostly went Tory and the extra 1k LD votes mostly from Labour but clearly there are more and more folk who have less scruples about voting for the party of Thatcher and felt that Labour no longer spoke for them. Brexit is the gateway and sound policy can get them hooked
I think my result of the night (though no one elses) was Mansfield. May only managed to take 4 bricks out the red wall in 2017. 2 had sub 1k majorities, 2 had sub 3k majorities going into this election. All now have majorities of 12,000 or more (Walsall South, Stoke South, NE Derbyshire and Mansfield). Ben Bradley has managed to turn a seat the Tories never won (came close in 1987) into a 16k majority with 64% of the vote.
It’s all rather incredible and must give CCHQ a lot of positivity that if they look after the red wall and listen to it then these people won’t go back to a Labour.
Have you done much analysis on whether these majorities were down to Labour voters staying at home or genuine switchers?
I remain broadly unconvinced that "get Brexit done" is going to be enough to keep these communities in the long run. But Labour needs to win them back rather than just assuming they'll come back.
I am pleased many of the Red Wall seats fell.
Because these constituencies & people have been ignored and taken for granted.
Even if the Tories do nothing, Labour -- for the first time in decades -- will have to think what these communities want, they will have to seal a new deal with these people.
And that is good.
I rarely agree with you but I agree with this point completely.
My fear with Johnson is that beyond Brexit he has very little concrete vision for the country.
No. He has a vision for a lot of concrete - lots of infrastructure projects
If I were to enter the mind of BoJo, I think I'd be tempted to go for a really big symbolic show-project - given the NI tensions and Union wobbles more generally, a Massive Great Bridge between GB and Ulster might be in order. Hopefully more successful than the Garden Bridge...
I will remain extremely unconvinced that Johnson actually plans to make the country better until I actually see some progress. To this date I remain convinced he is only here to win elections.
You don't have to look much further than London for that, when most of his policies have come unravelled since he left. His biggest achievement in London is probably not completely destroying it.
The night tube and banning alcohol on it is the biggest achievement. It has made coming home from a night out incredibly safe. I haven't looked it up but I expect that the number of rapes, assaults and sexual assaults has gone down because of it.
Wasn't the night tube a Khan thing?
He can have alcohol, fair enough.
I don't know what the equivalent of alcohol banning would be in the country, doesn't seem like a lot to me.
No it was a Boris thing that the unions blocked for political reasons until Khan became Mayor.
Fair point.
So he did one good thing - my view on him has not really changed.
The kind of radical seeming changes he's promising, seems to at the moment to be very little in reality. I will not be at all surprised if in five years very little has changed. I just don't think the Tories will ever make radical change that is actually needed.
I will remain extremely unconvinced that Johnson actually plans to make the country better until I actually see some progress. To this date I remain convinced he is only here to win elections.
You don't have to look much further than London for that, when most of his policies have come unravelled since he left. His biggest achievement in London is probably not completely destroying it.
The night tube and banning alcohol on it is the biggest achievement. It has made coming home from a night out incredibly safe. I haven't looked it up but I expect that the number of rapes, assaults and sexual assaults has gone down because of it.
Wasn't the night tube a Khan thing?
He can have alcohol, fair enough.
I don't know what the equivalent of alcohol banning would be in the country, doesn't seem like a lot to me.
No it was a Boris thing that the unions blocked for political reasons until Khan became Mayor.
Khan was finally able to secure union cooperation, whereas Johnson never could. So yes, Khan should have the credit for that one. And I do agree, it’s a genuine improvement to London life.
Comments
Being a teenage mother isn't something to be ashamed of - but it isn't something on which to build a political career. Yes, she has a backstory - which, to some, makes her more relatable. But she has shown poor judgement, poor media skills and no independent political thought thus far.
She might in the future. But that moment, she offers nothing substantial
At the end of the day he got a paltry 300k more votes than May. I would like to think that the Tories will bear that in mind but they won't. Don't equate what our voting system has done with what the voters actually voted for. A majority voted for parties supporting a second referendum but we won't get it.
I am going to be intensely cynical - because if the next five years are like the previous nine, very little will change.
My fear with Johnson is that beyond Brexit he has very little concrete vision for the country.
https://twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status/1205748806999920640
There is now a huge opportunity for the Tories to capitalise on this result, but also huge risks. I don't think the assumptions that big seat swings aren’t reversible in a single election hold any more.
Nevertheless the task that lies ahead of Labour, in particular, is not choosing a more credible prospective PM, but choosing someone who can repeat Kinnocks’s role of mapping out a future direction for the party and using a mixture of inspiration and arm twisting to get the party to follow. Labour’s real problem is that it doesn’t have many very strong characters in its raft of potential next leaders.
https://www.parliament.scot/msps/election-results.aspx
Does anyone know whether any of the print editions of the newspapers today have a section with all the constituency results? I find it easier to read them on one page rather than clicking to get each result.
Have you ever heard of a thing called the happy medium?
If we didn’t know already who the new SeanT is, people would be wondering whether it is you.
Labour seats by Referendum result:
2017
LEAVE 162
REMAIN 101
2019
LEAVE 109
REMAIN 94
Change
LEAVE -53
REMAIN -7
A pro-EU party representing Anti-EU seats.
They still have another 100 Leave seats to lose if they continue along the 2019 path, one of them is Yvette Cooper's who will probably lose her seat in the next election if she and Labour don't reverse course on Working Class social issues.
It's all very well to be confident and want a bright future away from doom and gloom, but you have to be realistic too. If Boris can face down the ERG and go for an extremely soft Brexit maybe it won't be as bad as it could be.
There are some excellent candidates that would have wide appeal but will not be eligible because they are not from the far left & will be blocked by the Momentum mob..
You really think that Labour would have had such a hammering if they had had a leader like Dan Jarvis or Wes Streeting without the absurd far left dogma?
Lab 20,491
Con 20,346
LD 4,608
Grn 960
BRX 896
1. Boris needs to start looking out for working people, even at the expense of retirees. They have nowhere to go, working people will go back to Labour if we don't produce the goods.
2. He is clearly much better at judging the way the wind is blowing than May was, probably better than Dave as well who got 37% GB votes vs Boris on 44%.
3. Taxes are going up. We already know that CT is going to stay at 19% instead of going down to 17% as was previously planned. In addition I would like to suggest (to the CCHQ bods reading this):
- Raising CGT on residential property to 40% and 45%.
- Making retirees pay full NI on income and pension income.
- An annual 3% value surcharge on rented residential property.
- Increase the dividend tax rate to match income tax+NI instead of just matching income tax as it does at the moment.
All of these together will raise over £12bn per year which can be spent on redressing the generational balance and on the NHS.Ultimately property, landlords and old people are taxed too little and working people are taxed too much. We now have to live up to being the party of working people.
We also have 5 years to fix the property market and get more people into home ownership and get rid of the parasite landlords that leech off working people.
It's time to show that we are the true party of working people and Labour have only got Marxist policies.
Andy_JS, if the Guardian does have one, can you confirm please?
And you’re wrong, incidentally. Gordon Brown still wins that contest although the competition continues to get stiffer.
The age structure is changing, and the future will have many more old and very old retired people, and they will vote Con religiously. That is where resources will be diverted to, and the young and working people will be taxed to do it.
So although I would like to see the changes you propose, I don't think that's what the current administration will actually do.
The comment about senior backbenchers is apposite.
there aren't any
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7eG1kbdr0M&
Also, I wake up today and of course Corbyn / McDonnell don't take any responsibility, keeping saying the Tories are going to kill the country and McIRA was banging on about the #1 issue facing the country is Climate Change.
Now, it might be a huge issue, but do you think Flat Cap Fred is sitting there thinking its shit around here, poor education, poor jobs, high crime, you know what is the #1 thing to me, what those posh tw@ts gluing themselves to electric buses are banging on about?
The other thing with Labour's constant message of negativity. If Boris doesn't trash the country, well you look a bit stupid. They made the same mistake when he became Mayor. They claimed all the immigrants would flee, he would trash the places, it would be total chaos. When it wasn't, then trying to say yes, but, no, but, yeah, you have a bit of a problem.
It’s all rather incredible and must give CCHQ a lot of positivity that if they look after the red wall and listen to it then these people won’t go back to a Labour.
You don't have to look much further than London for that, when most of his policies have come unravelled since he left. His biggest achievement in London is probably not completely destroying it.
I remain broadly unconvinced that "get Brexit done" is going to be enough to keep these communities in the long run. But Labour needs to win them back rather than just assuming they'll come back.
He can have alcohol, fair enough.
I don't know what the equivalent of alcohol banning would be in the country, doesn't seem like a lot to me.
Not sure exactly what, but I think she does things for Diabetes Charities such as JDRF. Certainly they had her attention when PM.
Burnham can be dropped in again as was Boris.
Rely on moderates taking control to allow this to happen.
Because these constituencies & people have been ignored and taken for granted.
Even if the Tories do nothing, Labour -- for the first time in decades -- will have to think what these communities want, they will have to seal a new deal with these people.
And that is good.
So he did one good thing - my view on him has not really changed.
The kind of radical seeming changes he's promising, seems to at the moment to be very little in reality. I will not be at all surprised if in five years very little has changed. I just don't think the Tories will ever make radical change that is actually needed.