The problem for Labour is that having lost its working class base, its new base is a young, metropolitan middle class. They can be kept on side by promises of annulling student debt, rent controls etc. but such measures are impossibly expensive and offer nothing to the other voters they need to attract.
BTW my stepson says the story of the child on the floor in A and E was true... was it? I thought it had been found to be fake???
It was true. You must have been caught out by fake news, Russian trolls, or CCHQ muddying the waters. As an aside, the child's mother complained to OFCOM, or rather CCHQ did so on her behalf, in an attempt to suppress the story.
I think everyone was.. but its just the sort of dirty thing Labour would do. I was prepared to believe it was not true for that very reason.
This will, I fear, in time become the story of this election. Dirty tricks, doubtless from all sides, on social media and elsewhere. It is hard to refute your opponents' argument if you do not even know what that opponent is saying. We are also moving closer to America in that each side has its own facts and truth does not matter.
Its the media's job to call out the lies, but they are not very good at it or do not want to Suppose C4 news called out the Tories on something. C4 news is so left wing it must be breaking its charter on impartiality. I would not trust C4 news under any circumstances whatsoever.
You prefer the lies of the likes of the mail and Express or the state propaganda unit I presume
The state propaganda unit’s “journalists” have not even been trying to conceal their delight at The Clown’s victory. It’ll end in tears.
I think the brutal truth is that many the Northern Labour voters stopped believing the party was telling the truth in their manifesto. Having just seen their party lie about honouring the referendum result, there was no more reason to believe they meant what they said when they offered the moon on a stick. They did like some of the manifesto, but no longer believed Labour would honour it
All the rest was irrelevant. BoJo needn't have bothered putting out a manifesto. I spoke to one of the WASPI woman on Thursday night, and although she had gone to the trouble of calculating how much she'd get, she still voted Tory. "I'd never have been given it, would I?"
Edit: As Kinnock Jr said last night "We tried to triangulate a binary issue."
This -- the credibility of the manifesto -- is something we mentioned here during the campaign. As you say, voters did not have to dislike the manifesto, or even think it mendacious, in order to turn away from Labour. They just had to doubt its practicability.
This chimes with post-ge2015 surveys which found similarly that voters liked Labour's analyses and policies but did not think Ed Miliband could run a bath.
BTW my stepson says the story of the child on the floor in A and E was true... was it? I thought it had been found to be fake???
It was true. You must have been caught out by fake news, Russian trolls, or CCHQ muddying the waters. As an aside, the child's mother complained to OFCOM, or rather CCHQ did so on her behalf, in an attempt to suppress the story.
I think everyone was.. but its just the sort of dirty thing Labour would do. I was prepared to believe it was not true for that very reason.
This will, I fear, in time become the story of this election. Dirty tricks, doubtless from all sides, on social media and elsewhere. It is hard to refute your opponents' argument if you do not even know what that opponent is saying. We are also moving closer to America in that each side has its own facts and truth does not matter.
Its the media's job to call out the lies, but they are not very good at it or do not want to Suppose C4 news called out the Tories on something. C4 news is so left wing it must be breaking its charter on impartiality. I would not trust C4 news under any circumstances whatsoever.
You prefer the lies of the likes of the mail and Express or the state propaganda unit I presume
I would prefer absolutely anything that stopped Corbyn becoming PM.. No dirty trick would have been too low.
Astonishing interview with Neil Findlay, Labour MSP for Lothian. Among other notable statements:
- sovereignty lies with the Scottish people - stopping Scottish independence is like “trying to stop a tsunami with a sieve” - SLab are open to discussing the merits of independence - and the real show-stopper: Richard Leonard is going to continue as leader until the May 2021 GE!!!!
Have they lost the plot? Richard Leonard?? As candidate to be FM??? Puhrleeeeze.
(BBC Good Morning Scotland, 10 minutes ago.)
Murdo Fraser on now bumping his gums, no mandate and because of 2014 there will never be another vote regardless. What a tool, trying to say the Tories did well losing only 50% of their seats.
BTW my stepson says the story of the child on the floor in A and E was true... was it? I thought it had been found to be fake???
It was true. You must have been caught out by fake news, Russian trolls, or CCHQ muddying the waters. As an aside, the child's mother complained to OFCOM, or rather CCHQ did so on her behalf, in an attempt to suppress the story.
Leeds A&E -- two false stories -- an analysis of how they spread on social media, with the aid of mainstream reporters including from the Sun, Telegraph and Mail, as well as Guido.
Fake news 1: pictures of an ill boy on the floor had themselves been faked Fake news 2: an aide to Health Secretary Matt Hancock was punched by a Labour mob
What annoyed me about that story is I didn't hear any more about it. I'd have genuinely been interested if the BBC or whoever had gone to the hospital and interview the parents and hospital staff to explain how it came to that situation.
and what about the "news item".. about Boris avoiding an interview with Andrew Neil... on the BBC that had n zillion views that Mr Smithson put up saying it was important (IIRC) and supposedly was going to affect voting.. of course it did no such thing.
I don't think that avoiding the Neil interview likely had much effect either way, but I still think it is an absolute disgrace that it happened. It's like a team that won 3-0 but one of its goals was scored by blatant cheating. The victory would have happened anyway but the result is still tarnished.
I agree with those who think the campaign had minimal influence. The voters were angry with the parliamentary and legal crap about Brexit. Many took the view that the result should be accepted and implemented as quickly as possible. Time to move on.
I think the brutal truth is that many the Northern Labour voters stopped believing the party was telling the truth in their manifesto. Having just seen their party lie about honouring the referendum result, there was no more reason to believe they meant what they said when they offered the moon on a stick. They did like some of the manifesto, but no longer believed Labour would honour it
All the rest was irrelevant. BoJo needn't have bothered putting out a manifesto. I spoke to one of the WASPI woman on Thursday night, and although she had gone to the trouble of calculating how much she'd get, she still voted Tory. "I'd never have been given it, would I?"
Edit: As Kinnock Jr said last night "We tried to triangulate a binary issue."
This -- the credibility of the manifesto -- is something we mentioned here during the campaign. As you say, voters did not have to dislike the manifesto, or even think it mendacious, in order to turn away from Labour. They just had to doubt its practicability.
This chimes with post-ge2015 surveys which found similarly that voters liked Labour's analyses and policies but did not think Ed Miliband could run a bath.
But what Labour will doubtless take away from 2019 is "you're gonna need a bigger bribe...."
If anyone still hasn't had their fill of political betting....
Betfred 4/11 no indyref2 before end 2020. That's a winner to me after Boris's phone call with Nicola last night.
If you want insurance, Paddys are 10/1 indyref2 does take place in 2020. That's a more realistic price imo but DYOR.
Good return for tying your cash up for a year. Given nothing can start till Brexit is done, even then it will take time for Tories to admit they cannot stop it and so it will most likely be in mid to late 2021 as Holyrood elections to be done etc. SNP will want something agreed before end 2020 but the referendum will not happen till 2021.
I think the brutal truth is that many the Northern Labour voters stopped believing the party was telling the truth in their manifesto. Having just seen their party lie about honouring the referendum result, there was no more reason to believe they meant what they said when they offered the moon on a stick. They did like some of the manifesto, but no longer believed Labour would honour it
All the rest was irrelevant. BoJo needn't have bothered putting out a manifesto. I spoke to one of the WASPI woman on Thursday night, and although she had gone to the trouble of calculating how much she'd get, she still voted Tory. "I'd never have been given it, would I?"
Edit: As Kinnock Jr said last night "We tried to triangulate a binary issue."
This -- the credibility of the manifesto -- is something we mentioned here during the campaign. As you say, voters did not have to dislike the manifesto, or even think it mendacious, in order to turn away from Labour. They just had to doubt its practicability.
This chimes with post-ge2015 surveys which found similarly that voters liked Labour's analyses and policies but did not think Ed Miliband could run a bath.
But what Labour will doubtless take away from 2019 is "you're gonna need a bigger bribe...."
Conservatives even more so since their bribes will be seen to have worked.
ETA: the Conservatives had clear messages. Get Brexit Done. More hospitals, nurses and coppers.
Labour had a confused ragbag of every thought that had ever passed through Seamus Milne's head, with little thought to practicability, desirability or even priority. Labour became so obsessed with costing the manifesto, no-one stepped back to consider what was in it.
Mr. Root, hard to say, but reportedly Swinson did rather well in her Neil interview. Didn't do her much good.
She was gone once she gave that stupid tirade that no matter how many people in Scotland wanted independence she would not allow it. People here don't like uppity politicians, the people are sovereign not some fly by night no user who does not even live in the country. She is obviously either stupid or super egotistical and has been hung by her own petard.
Astonishing interview with Neil Findlay, Labour MSP for Lothian. Among other notable statements:
- sovereignty lies with the Scottish people - stopping Scottish independence is like “trying to stop a tsunami with a sieve” - SLab are open to discussing the merits of independence - and the real show-stopper: Richard Leonard is going to continue as leader until the May 2021 GE!!!!
Have they lost the plot? Richard Leonard?? As candidate to be FM??? Puhrleeeeze.
(BBC Good Morning Scotland, 10 minutes ago.)
Murdo Fraser on now bumping his gums, no mandate and because of 2014 there will never be another vote regardless. What a tool, trying to say the Tories did well losing only 50% of their seats.
It's all relative isn't it? We only got one solitary MP back in 2015.
Is there going to be an election for Scottish Tory leader? Jackson Carlaw is doing a creditable job, but he's not been elected.
BTW my stepson says the story of the child on the floor in A and E was true... was it? I thought it had been found to be fake???
It was true. You must have been caught out by fake news, Russian trolls, or CCHQ muddying the waters. As an aside, the child's mother complained to OFCOM, or rather CCHQ did so on her behalf, in an attempt to suppress the story.
Leeds A&E -- two false stories -- an analysis of how they spread on social media, with the aid of mainstream reporters including from the Sun, Telegraph and Mail, as well as Guido.
Fake news 1: pictures of an ill boy on the floor had themselves been faked Fake news 2: an aide to Health Secretary Matt Hancock was punched by a Labour mob
What annoyed me about that story is I didn't hear any more about it. I'd have genuinely been interested if the BBC or whoever had gone to the hospital and interview the parents and hospital staff to explain how it came to that situation.
and what about the "news item".. about Boris avoiding an interview with Andrew Neil... on the BBC that had n zillion views that Mr Smithson put up saying it was important (IIRC) and supposedly was going to affect voting.. of course it did no such thing.
I don't think that avoiding the Neil interview likely had much effect either way, but I still think it is an absolute disgrace that it happened. It's like a team that won 3-0 but one of its goals was scored by blatant cheating. The victory would have happened anyway but the result is still tarnished.
Crap. Journalists have no right to tell the politicians how to campaign nor should television be political players in the campaign either. They should report the news impartially and let the voters decide.
If anyone still hasn't had their fill of political betting....
Betfred 4/11 no indyref2 before end 2020. That's a winner to me after Boris's phone call with Nicola last night.
If you want insurance, Paddys are 10/1 indyref2 does take place in 2020. That's a more realistic price imo but DYOR.
Good return for tying your cash up for a year. Given nothing can start till Brexit is done, even then it will take time for Tories to admit they cannot stop it and so it will most likely be in mid to late 2021 as Holyrood elections to be done etc. SNP will want something agreed before end 2020 but the referendum will not happen till 2021.
I would have thought May 2022 should be favourite. That would be a year after Holyrood, there should be some clarity over Brexit by then and Boris Johnson will probably have been sacked so the new leader will have a weaker democratic mandate.
The slightly awkward hurdle for the SNP is whether they and the Greens can command a majority in 2021. After 14 years of rule and probably a second change of leader will the SNP shine come off? Given the weakness of the opposition it seems improbable but it certainty isn’t impossible. There are big problems in Scotland right now as we all know and you have to wonder if blaming London will work for ever.
The Labour Party needs to change, but not panic. With 32%, 200 seats and critically no challenger on the left in England, it can recover and win.
It needs a strategy that repairs damage but also exploits new opportunities. These days there are no safe seats. The Tory underbelly is soft. The right leader could have a lot of fun there.
Astonishing interview with Neil Findlay, Labour MSP for Lothian. Among other notable statements:
- sovereignty lies with the Scottish people - stopping Scottish independence is like “trying to stop a tsunami with a sieve” - SLab are open to discussing the merits of independence - and the real show-stopper: Richard Leonard is going to continue as leader until the May 2021 GE!!!!
Have they lost the plot? Richard Leonard?? As candidate to be FM??? Puhrleeeeze.
(BBC Good Morning Scotland, 10 minutes ago.)
Murdo Fraser on now bumping his gums, no mandate and because of 2014 there will never be another vote regardless. What a tool, trying to say the Tories did well losing only 50% of their seats.
It's all relative isn't it? We only got one solitary MP back in 2015.
Is there going to be an election for Scottish Tory leader? Jackson Carlaw is doing a creditable job, but he's not been elected.
Good god Carlaw is an absolute numpty, is it any wonder the Tories are going backwards, a choice between him and 27 times failed to get elected WATP" Murdo. Shakespeare could not have made up a better tragi-comedy.
BTW my stepson says the story of the child on the floor in A and E was true... was it? I thought it had been found to be fake???
It was true. You must have been caught out by fake news, Russian trolls, or CCHQ muddying the waters. As an aside, the child's mother complained to OFCOM, or rather CCHQ did so on her behalf, in an attempt to suppress the story.
Leeds A&E -- two false stories -- an analysis of how they spread on social media, with the aid of mainstream reporters including from the Sun, Telegraph and Mail, as well as Guido.
Fake news 1: pictures of an ill boy on the floor had themselves been faked Fake news 2: an aide to Health Secretary Matt Hancock was punched by a Labour mob
What annoyed me about that story is I didn't hear any more about it. I'd have genuinely been interested if the BBC or whoever had gone to the hospital and interview the parents and hospital staff to explain how it came to that situation.
and what about the "news item".. about Boris avoiding an interview with Andrew Neil... on the BBC that had n zillion views that Mr Smithson put up saying it was important (IIRC) and supposedly was going to affect voting.. of course it did no such thing.
I don't think that avoiding the Neil interview likely had much effect either way, but I still think it is an absolute disgrace that it happened. It's like a team that won 3-0 but one of its goals was scored by blatant cheating. The victory would have happened anyway but the result is still tarnished.
Crap. Journalists have no right to tell the politicians how to campaign nor should television be political players in the campaign either. They should report the news impartially and let the voters decide.
That's the law already. There are no legal constraints on social media campaigning, evading scrutiny or flat-out lying.
I absolutely hope not. The one who liked a nazi sign needs a good ticking off and possibly a short period of suspension.
Interesting case of the candidate who wanted nuisance tenants to live in tents and pick potatoes. I’ll take you down a street with mixed social housing for a canvass and put that suggestion to the residents. It won’t be short of support.
Much of the other stuff on that link can be filed under “these things are often quite true, but we would rather they weren’t and shouldn’t speak of it”.
Astonishing interview with Neil Findlay, Labour MSP for Lothian. Among other notable statements:
- sovereignty lies with the Scottish people - stopping Scottish independence is like “trying to stop a tsunami with a sieve” - SLab are open to discussing the merits of independence - and the real show-stopper: Richard Leonard is going to continue as leader until the May 2021 GE!!!!
Have they lost the plot? Richard Leonard?? As candidate to be FM??? Puhrleeeeze.
(BBC Good Morning Scotland, 10 minutes ago.)
Murdo Fraser on now bumping his gums, no mandate and because of 2014 there will never be another vote regardless. What a tool, trying to say the Tories did well losing only 50% of their seats.
Lib Dem wifey on the wireless banging on about how well her party did at the election, and about how Lib Dem strategy had been terrific. Where do they get these folk from?
Murdo is a pure gift. Rarely have the Unionists been so generous.
Astonishing interview with Neil Findlay, Labour MSP for Lothian. Among other notable statements:
- sovereignty lies with the Scottish people - stopping Scottish independence is like “trying to stop a tsunami with a sieve” - SLab are open to discussing the merits of independence - and the real show-stopper: Richard Leonard is going to continue as leader until the May 2021 GE!!!!
Have they lost the plot? Richard Leonard?? As candidate to be FM??? Puhrleeeeze.
(BBC Good Morning Scotland, 10 minutes ago.)
Murdo Fraser on now bumping his gums, no mandate and because of 2014 there will never be another vote regardless. What a tool, trying to say the Tories did well losing only 50% of their seats.
It's all relative isn't it? We only got one solitary MP back in 2015.
Is there going to be an election for Scottish Tory leader? Jackson Carlaw is doing a creditable job, but he's not been elected.
Good god Carlaw is an absolute numpty, is it any wonder the Tories are going backwards, a choice between him and 27 times failed to get elected WATP" Murdo. Shakespeare could not have made up a better tragi-comedy.
Fraser is probably inevitable now I think - no doubt likes his chances.
Its towns v cities, global v local. This is about those areas of the country who feel they have taken the hit on globalism trying to get back on their feet.
If the Tories can consolidate their gains we'll be looking at a new landscape.
Yep.
By fighting on the genius and simple slogan “Get Brexit Done,” he exposed the deep divides on the left, unified the right, and knocked his opponents for six (if you will forgive a cricket metaphor). But just as important, he moved the party sharply left on austerity, spending on public services, tax cuts for the working poor, and a higher minimum wage. He outflanked the far right on Brexit and shamelessly echoed the left on economic policy.
This is Trumpism without Trump. A conservative future without an ineffective and polarizing nutjob at the heart of it. Johnson now has a mandate to enact this new Tory alignment, and he will be far more competent than Trump at it. Unlike Trump, he will stop E.U. mass migration, and pass a new immigration system, based on the Australian model. Unlike Trump, he will focus tax cuts on the working poor, not the decadent rich.
Its well worth a read - if only to understand how history comes to be written by the victors, the story morphed through the effects of our voting system. The Tories got 43.6% of the vote this time, compared to 42.4% last time after what was seen as a disastrous campaign. In a proportional system this wouldn't be written up as a great triumph.
The real story of 2019 is how Labour lost, not how the Tories won.
And the HYT takeout for US readers is to urge the Dems to avoid Sanders and Warren. Betting: I'm laying by Sanders green down to zero.
BTW my stepson says the story of the child on the floor in A and E was true... was it? I thought it had been found to be fake???
It was true. You must have been caught out by fake news, Russian trolls, or CCHQ muddying the waters. As an aside, the child's mother complained to OFCOM, or rather CCHQ did so on her behalf, in an attempt to suppress the story.
I think everyone was.. but its just the sort of dirty thing Labour would do. I was prepared to believe it was not true for that very reason.
This will, I fear, in time become the story of this election. Dirty tricks, doubtless from all sides, on social media and elsewhere. It is hard to refute your opponents' argument if you do not even know what that opponent is saying. We are also moving closer to America in that each side has its own facts and truth does not matter.
Its the media's job to call out the lies, but they are not very good at it or do not want to Suppose C4 news called out the Tories on something. C4 news is so left wing it must be breaking its charter on impartiality. I would not trust C4 news under any circumstances whatsoever.
You prefer the lies of the likes of the mail and Express or the state propaganda unit I presume
The state propaganda unit’s “journalists” have not even been trying to conceal their delight at The Clown’s victory. It’ll end in tears.
By the way Malcolm, I haven’t seen you since polling day. Congratulations!! You were without doubt the most accurate PB predictor with regard to Scottish results.
I absolutely hope not. The one who liked a nazi sign needs a good ticking off and possibly a short period of suspension.
Interesting case of the candidate who wanted nuisance tenants to live in tents and pick potatoes. I’ll take you down a street with mixed social housing for a canvass and put that suggestion to the residents. It won’t be short of support.
Much of the other stuff on that link can be filed under “these things are often quite true, but we would rather they weren’t and shouldn’t speak of it”.
OK, at least we'll know what 'One Nation Toryism' means.
If anyone still hasn't had their fill of political betting....
Betfred 4/11 no indyref2 before end 2020. That's a winner to me after Boris's phone call with Nicola last night.
If you want insurance, Paddys are 10/1 indyref2 does take place in 2020. That's a more realistic price imo but DYOR.
Good return for tying your cash up for a year. Given nothing can start till Brexit is done, even then it will take time for Tories to admit they cannot stop it and so it will most likely be in mid to late 2021 as Holyrood elections to be done etc. SNP will want something agreed before end 2020 but the referendum will not happen till 2021.
I would have thought May 2022 should be favourite. That would be a year after Holyrood, there should be some clarity over Brexit by then and Boris Johnson will probably have been sacked so the new leader will have a weaker democratic mandate.
The slightly awkward hurdle for the SNP is whether they and the Greens can command a majority in 2021. After 14 years of rule and probably a second change of leader will the SNP shine come off? Given the weakness of the opposition it seems improbable but it certainty isn’t impossible. There are big problems in Scotland right now as we all know and you have to wonder if blaming London will work for ever.
Ydoethur, what are the big problems, the perennial education same as rest of UK, NHS ditto. We know Tories and Labour cannot solve these issues and its Westminster that allocates the cash so how would that impact the SNP. GFiven there is absolutely no opposition from the London parties who people know will do nothing for Scotland I cannot think of anything else unless there are big revelations at Alex's trial.
The problem for Labour is that having lost its working class base, its new base is a young, metropolitan middle class. They can be kept on side by promises of annulling student debt, rent controls etc. but such measures are impossibly expensive and offer nothing to the other voters they need to attract.
Indeed, it also puts them in s precarious position because those young metropolitan liberals are in the process of buying their own homes which we all know is s huge driver of Lab to Con switching. A very close friend of mine has been Labour all her life, this time she voted Tory. The major change was that she became a homeowner in the past year, this is s northern anti-Tory "if you weren't my friend I'd hate you for being a Tory" kind of person in 2017.
BTW my stepson says the story of the child on the floor in A and E was true... was it? I thought it had been found to be fake???
It was true. You must have been caught out by fake news, Russian trolls, or CCHQ muddying the waters. As an aside, the child's mother complained to OFCOM, or rather CCHQ did so on her behalf, in an attempt to suppress the story.
I think everyone was.. but its just the sort of dirty thing Labour would do. I was prepared to believe it was not true for that very reason.
This will, I fear, in time become the story of this election. Dirty tricks, doubtless from all sides, on social media and elsewhere. It is hard to refute your opponents' argument if you do not even know what that opponent is saying. We are also moving closer to America in that each side has its own facts and truth does not matter.
Its the media's job to call out the lies, but they are not very good at it or do not want to Suppose C4 news called out the Tories on something. C4 news is so left wing it must be breaking its charter on impartiality. I would not trust C4 news under any circumstances whatsoever.
You prefer the lies of the likes of the mail and Express or the state propaganda unit I presume
The state propaganda unit’s “journalists” have not even been trying to conceal their delight at The Clown’s victory. It’ll end in tears.
Yes The "sainted" Nicola is heading for a fall.
Nicola is not remotely saint like. She’s a lovely, down to earth lady. She’s had her fair share of life’s ups and downs, and will cope just fine with the challenges ahead, both private and public.
I once bumped into her at the Partick DSS. She’s seen real life. Unlike most Tory toe-rags.
The problem for Labour is that having lost its working class base, its new base is a young, metropolitan middle class. They can be kept on side by promises of annulling student debt, rent controls etc. but such measures are impossibly expensive and offer nothing to the other voters they need to attract.
The result that really caused my jaw to drop in the small hours of Friday morning was Mansfield.
In Blair's big win in 1997, it had a Labour majority of 20,000. In 2005 it was still 11,000.
It was my personal WTF???? moment of 2017 when the Tories took it. I know Mansfield. The idea it could go Tory was off-the-scale bonkers. Yet it went blue with a majority of a little over 1,000.
So what was the reaction to the town of having a Tory MP for a couple of years. Any degree of buyers remorse? Might the hope he embodied turn to ash?
Nope.
There was a further swing to the Conservatives. Of an astonishing 15.5%. He now has a majority of 16,300. That is Tory-shire safe.
If this response proves anything like the response in those seats the Tories took on Thursday, Labour is dead in the water for several more Parliaments.
Somewhat unusually I disagree fairly fundamentally with this piece. The lessons I think that we learned from the last incompetent Parliament are:
1. Breaking into the existing oligopoly of parties is incredibly difficult. The Tiggers were annihilated and the Brexit Party did no better. Those that went out on their own are all now ex-MP. Parliament is the sort of closed shop that your most militant shop steward can only dream of.
2. The weakness and incompetence of Labour led to their increasing collapse in Scotland where there is the sort of centre left alternative that does not exist in England. There may be no way back there now.
3. The Lib Dems made several strategic mistakes but their biggest by far was not going for Labour's throat when they were so vulnerable. If they want to play a major role in our governance, as opposed to a minor role in our politics, they need to replace Labour in the same way as the SNP have. They will almost certainly never get a better chance.
The sad conclusion I have come to, which I think nearly all politicians will now share, is that breaking away from the existing structures is fatal. Far better to hang in there and seek to change the mood inside the party.
There is huge anger in Labour about what the Corbynists did to their party, the disgusting moral failings, the delusional economics and, most fundamentally, losing. Whether that anger can be marshaled into a regaining of the party by the moderates remains to be seen but even if they fail the institutional strength of the oligopoly protects Labour from too much harm.
The problem for Labour is that having lost its working class base, its new base is a young, metropolitan middle class. They can be kept on side by promises of annulling student debt, rent controls etc. but such measures are impossibly expensive and offer nothing to the other voters they need to attract.
The result that really caused my jaw to drop in the small hours of Friday morning was Mansfield.
In Blair's big win in 1997, it had a Labour majority of 20,000. In 2005 it was still 11,000.
It was my personal WTF???? moment of 2017 when the Tories took it. I know Mansfield. The idea it could go Tory was off-the-scale bonkers. Yet it went blue with a majority of a little over 1,000.
So what was the reaction to the town of having a Tory MP for a couple of years. Any degree of buyers remorse? Might the hope he embodied turn to ash?
Nope.
There was a further swing to the Conservatives. Of an astonishing 15.5%. He now has a majority of 16,300. That is Tory-shire safe.
If this response proves anything like the response in those seats the Tories took on Thursday, Labour is dead in the water for several more Parliaments.
Yes, in electoral terms that is remarkable.
Now the Tories have to deliver on issues such as transport and housing in the North.
Mr. Root, hard to say, but reportedly Swinson did rather well in her Neil interview. Didn't do her much good.
She was gone once she gave that stupid tirade that no matter how many people in Scotland wanted independence she would not allow it. People here don't like uppity politicians, the people are sovereign not some fly by night no user who does not even live in the country. She is obviously either stupid or super egotistical and has been hung by her own petard.
Does she not have a home in Scotland malcolm? Not a good look at all if so.
“Scottish Labour voters prefer proper Coke to Diet Coke”.
SLab can’t sell Indy Lite any more. There are clear sign that the coin has dropped. SLab are moving slowly but surely towards abandoning full-blooded Unionism.
Astonishing interview with Neil Findlay, Labour MSP for Lothian. Among other notable statements:
- sovereignty lies with the Scottish people - stopping Scottish independence is like “trying to stop a tsunami with a sieve” - SLab are open to discussing the merits of independence - and the real show-stopper: Richard Leonard is going to continue as leader until the May 2021 GE!!!!
Have they lost the plot? Richard Leonard?? As candidate to be FM??? Puhrleeeeze.
(BBC Good Morning Scotland, 10 minutes ago.)
Murdo Fraser on now bumping his gums, no mandate and because of 2014 there will never be another vote regardless. What a tool, trying to say the Tories did well losing only 50% of their seats.
It's all relative isn't it? We only got one solitary MP back in 2015.
Is there going to be an election for Scottish Tory leader? Jackson Carlaw is doing a creditable job, but he's not been elected.
Good god Carlaw is an absolute numpty, is it any wonder the Tories are going backwards, a choice between him and 27 times failed to get elected WATP" Murdo. Shakespeare could not have made up a better tragi-comedy.
Fraser is probably inevitable now I think - no doubt likes his chances.
If he is leader the Tories really are F***** in Scotland. Of all the donkeys in the land he would be at or very near the top. Tories heading back to 17th century bigotry.
Here in the Lib Dems we don't know whether to laugh or cry at the election result. To increase our vote from 2.3m to 3.6m yet go backwards in seats at the same time seems quite brutal.
We'll lick our wounds until the leadership contest. There's not really much else to say until then.
I my advice would be to avoid anyone who thinks a key issue outside the bubble is transgendered.
This is an important point. Many organisations and activists on the left see this as the “Next big minority rights” issue, while there are many feminists horrified at the concept of self identification. The whole nonsense of transgenderism has, due to a weakness to resist, a real thing in schools amongst youngsters.
It’s an issue that has been creeping up and until very recently been pushed very strongly under the radar without any push back.
If anyone still hasn't had their fill of political betting....
Betfred 4/11 no indyref2 before end 2020. That's a winner to me after Boris's phone call with Nicola last night.
If you want insurance, Paddys are 10/1 indyref2 does take place in 2020. That's a more realistic price imo but DYOR.
Good return for tying your cash up for a year. Given nothing can start till Brexit is done, even then it will take time for Tories to admit they cannot stop it and so it will most likely be in mid to late 2021 as Holyrood elections to be done etc. SNP will want something agreed before end 2020 but the referendum will not happen till 2021.
I would have thought May 2022 should be favourite. That would be a year after Holyrood, there should be some clarity over Brexit by then and Boris Johnson will probably have been sacked so the new leader will have a weaker democratic mandate.
The slightly awkward hurdle for the SNP is whether they and the Greens can command a majority in 2021. After 14 years of rule and probably a second change of leader will the SNP shine come off? Given the weakness of the opposition it seems improbable but it certainty isn’t impossible. There are big problems in Scotland right now as we all know and you have to wonder if blaming London will work for ever.
Ydoethur, what are the big problems, the perennial education same as rest of UK, NHS ditto. We know Tories and Labour cannot solve these issues and its Westminster that allocates the cash so how would that impact the SNP. GFiven there is absolutely no opposition from the London parties who people know will do nothing for Scotland I cannot think of anything else unless there are big revelations at Alex's trial.
Actually, no Malcolm. The indicators for health and education are worse than particularly England. Now before you point out - correctly - that there are a number of very good reasons for this that are nothing to do with the SNP, I would have thought the fact that they are all going the wrong way despite what have been energetic efforts by the Holyrood government to improve, e.g. the public health and preventative health systems, should give pause for thought. The Salmond trial was also another big challenge I was thinking of. That could be Profumo on speed - or, of course, a damp squib. We don’t know yet.
Of course, the situation in Scotland is far better than the one in Wales and Labour keep clinging on like limpets who have had superglue added. But getting a majority in 2021 even with Green support doesn’t look like a gimme from here.
Somewhat unusually I disagree fairly fundamentally with this piece. The lessons I think that we learned from the last incompetent Parliament are:
1. Breaking into the existing oligopoly of parties is incredibly difficult. The Tiggers were annihilated and the Brexit Party did no better. Those that went out on their own are all now ex-MP. Parliament is the sort of closed shop that your most militant shop steward can only dream of.
2. The weakness and incompetence of Labour led to their increasing collapse in Scotland where there is the sort of centre left alternative that does not exist in England. There may be no way back there now.
3. The Lib Dems made several strategic mistakes but their biggest by far was not going for Labour's throat when they were so vulnerable. If they want to play a major role in our governance, as opposed to a minor role in our politics, they need to replace Labour in the same way as the SNP have. They will almost certainly never get a better chance.
The sad conclusion I have come to, which I think nearly all politicians will now share, is that breaking away from the existing structures is fatal. Far better to hang in there and seek to change the mood inside the party.
There is huge anger in Labour about what the Corbynists did to their party, the disgusting moral failings, the delusional economics and, most fundamentally, losing. Whether that anger can be marshaled into a regaining of the party by the moderates remains to be seen but even if they fail the institutional strength of the oligopoly protects Labour from too much harm.
The ones that are supposedly angry will need to grow a backbone , they were happy to go along with it and just keep pocketing the cash. They put money and self preservation before integrity and principles.
BTW my stepson says the story of the child on the floor in A and E was true... was it? I thought it had been found to be fake???
It was true. You must have been caught out by fake news, Russian trolls, or CCHQ muddying the waters. As an aside, the child's mother complained to OFCOM, or rather CCHQ did so on her behalf, in an attempt to suppress the story.
I think everyone was.. but its just the sort of dirty thing Labour would do. I was prepared to believe it was not true for that very reason.
This will, I fear, in time become the story of this election. Dirty tricks, doubtless from all sides, on social media and elsewhere. It is hard to refute your opponents' argument if you do not even know what that opponent is saying. We are also moving closer to America in that each side has its own facts and truth does not matter.
Its the media's job to call out the lies, but they are not very good at it or do not want to Suppose C4 news called out the Tories on something. C4 news is so left wing it must be breaking its charter on impartiality. I would not trust C4 news under any circumstances whatsoever.
You prefer the lies of the likes of the mail and Express or the state propaganda unit I presume
The state propaganda unit’s “journalists” have not even been trying to conceal their delight at The Clown’s victory. It’ll end in tears.
Yes The "sainted" Nicola is heading for a fall.
Nicola is not remotely saint like. She’s a lovely, down to earth lady. She’s had her fair share of life’s ups and downs, and will cope just fine with the challenges ahead, both private and public.
I once bumped into her at the Partick DSS. She’s seen real life. Unlike most Tory toe-rags.
BTW my stepson says the story of the child on the floor in A and E was true... was it? I thought it had been found to be fake???
It was true. You must have been caught out by fake news, Russian trolls, or CCHQ muddying the waters. As an aside, the child's mother complained to OFCOM, or rather CCHQ did so on her behalf, in an attempt to suppress the story.
I think everyone was.. but its just the sort of dirty thing Labour would do. I was prepared to believe it was not true for that very reason.
This will, I fear, in time become the story of this election. Dirty tricks, doubtless from all sides, on social media and elsewhere. It is hard to refute your opponents' argument if you do not even know what that opponent is saying. We are also moving closer to America in that each side has its own facts and truth does not matter.
Its the media's job to call out the lies, but they are not very good at it or do not want to Suppose C4 news called out the Tories on something. C4 news is so left wing it must be breaking its charter on impartiality. I would not trust C4 news under any circumstances whatsoever.
You prefer the lies of the likes of the mail and Express or the state propaganda unit I presume
The state propaganda unit’s “journalists” have not even been trying to conceal their delight at The Clown’s victory. It’ll end in tears.
Yes The "sainted" Nicola is heading for a fall.
Nicola is not remotely saint like. She’s a lovely, down to earth lady. She’s had her fair share of life’s ups and downs, and will cope just fine with the challenges ahead, both private and public.
I once bumped into her at the Partick DSS. She’s seen real life. Unlike most Tory toe-rags.
She's not claiming benefits is she?
No idea what she was doing there. And it was about 1989!
BTW my stepson says the story of the child on the floor in A and E was true... was it? I thought it had been found to be fake???
It was true. You must have been caught out by fake news, Russian trolls, or CCHQ muddying the waters. As an aside, the child's mother complained to OFCOM, or rather CCHQ did so on her behalf, in an attempt to suppress the story.
I think everyone was.. but its just the sort of dirty thing Labour would do. I was prepared to believe it was not true for that very reason.
This will, I fear, in time become the story of this election. Dirty tricks, doubtless from all sides, on social media and elsewhere. It is hard to refute your opponents' argument if you do not even know what that opponent is saying. We are also moving closer to America in that each side has its own facts and truth does not matter.
Its the media's job to call out the lies, but they are not very good at it or do not want to Suppose C4 news called out the Tories on something. C4 news is so left wing it must be breaking its charter on impartiality. I would not trust C4 news under any circumstances whatsoever.
You prefer the lies of the likes of the mail and Express or the state propaganda unit I presume
The state propaganda unit’s “journalists” have not even been trying to conceal their delight at The Clown’s victory. It’ll end in tears.
Yes The "sainted" Nicola is heading for a fall.
Nicola is not remotely saint like. She’s a lovely, down to earth lady. She’s had her fair share of life’s ups and downs, and will cope just fine with the challenges ahead, both private and public.
She's easily the most effective political operator we've got - and without the manifest personal failings of the two UK main party leaders. But Mr Gravity is patient and relentless - when he finally does come calling, who is to replace her?
Mr. Root, hard to say, but reportedly Swinson did rather well in her Neil interview. Didn't do her much good.
She was gone once she gave that stupid tirade that no matter how many people in Scotland wanted independence she would not allow it. People here don't like uppity politicians, the people are sovereign not some fly by night no user who does not even live in the country. She is obviously either stupid or super egotistical and has been hung by her own petard.
Does she not have a home in Scotland malcolm? Not a good look at all if so.
No idea but have never seen any article in the media up here regarding her ever being in her constituency. You would have expected to see a few articles and especially after she was Lib Dem leader. My impression was she was just a carpetbagger who was never here, perhaps someone can show I am wrong.
BTW my stepson says the story of the child on the floor in A and E was true... was it? I thought it had been found to be fake???
It was true. You must have been caught out by fake news, Russian trolls, or CCHQ muddying the waters. As an aside, the child's mother complained to OFCOM, or rather CCHQ did so on her behalf, in an attempt to suppress the story.
I think everyone was.. but its just the sort of dirty thing Labour would do. I was prepared to believe it was not true for that very reason.
This will, I fear, in time become the story of this election. Dirty tricks, doubtless from all sides, on social media and elsewhere. It is hard to refute your opponents' argument if you do not even know what that opponent is saying. We are also moving closer to America in that each side has its own facts and truth does not matter.
Its the media's job to call out the lies, but they are not very good at it or do not want to Suppose C4 news called out the Tories on something. C4 news is so left wing it must be breaking its charter on impartiality. I would not trust C4 news under any circumstances whatsoever.
You prefer the lies of the likes of the mail and Express or the state propaganda unit I presume
The state propaganda unit’s “journalists” have not even been trying to conceal their delight at The Clown’s victory. It’ll end in tears.
Yes The "sainted" Nicola is heading for a fall.
Nicola is not remotely saint like. She’s a lovely, down to earth lady. She’s had her fair share of life’s ups and downs, and will cope just fine with the challenges ahead, both private and public.
She's easily the most effective political operator we've got - and without the manifest personal failings of the two UK main party leaders. But Mr Gravity is patient and relentless - when he finally does come calling, who is to replace her?
Fortunately, talent is not a scarce resource in our party.
It's logically inconsistent to state that a Lib Dem majority in Westminster could revoke Article 50 without a referendum but that an SNP majority in Holyrood could not have a referendum. Not only that, it implies an SNP majority in Holyrood might have a mandate for unilateral independence without a referendum.
And it was tactically stupid because it put off a lot of soft Leavers and Remainers, whilst at the same time being much much harder to achieve than a (second) referendum win for Remain.
As I said at the time, it was a very stupid and entirely needless mistake. Sadly, she got high on her own supply. A shame, as she seems like a decent person.
BTW my stepson says the story of the child on the floor in A and E was true... was it? I thought it had been found to be fake???
It was true. You must have been caught out by fake news, Russian trolls, or CCHQ muddying the waters. As an aside, the child's mother complained to OFCOM, or rather CCHQ did so on her behalf, in an attempt to suppress the story.
Leeds A&E -- two false stories -- an analysis of how they spread on social media, with the aid of mainstream reporters including from the Sun, Telegraph and Mail, as well as Guido.
Fake news 1: pictures of an ill boy on the floor had themselves been faked Fake news 2: an aide to Health Secretary Matt Hancock was punched by a Labour mob
What annoyed me about that story is I didn't hear any more about it. I'd have genuinely been interested if the BBC or whoever had gone to the hospital and interview the parents and hospital staff to explain how it came to that situation.
and what about the "news item".. about Boris avoiding an interview with Andrew Neil... on the BBC that had n zillion views that Mr Smithson put up saying it was important (IIRC) and supposedly was going to affect voting.. of course it did no such thing.
I don't think that avoiding the Neil interview likely had much effect either way, but I still think it is an absolute disgrace that it happened. It's like a team that won 3-0 but one of its goals was scored by blatant cheating. The victory would have happened anyway but the result is still tarnished.
Crap. Journalists have no right to tell the politicians how to campaign nor should television be political players in the campaign either. They should report the news impartially and let the voters decide.
As a voter I have no opportunity to meet PM candidates personally, I rely on journalists to ask them tough questions and subject them to scrutiny so I can make an informed choice. The other leaders understood that and did the interview. It speaks poorly of Johnson that he ducked it, and poorly of his supporters that they think it's ok.
If anyone still hasn't had their fill of political betting....
Betfred 4/11 no indyref2 before end 2020. That's a winner to me after Boris's phone call with Nicola last night.
If you want insurance, Paddys are 10/1 indyref2 does take place in 2020. That's a more realistic price imo but DYOR.
Good return for tying your cash up for a year. Given nothing can start till Brexit is done, even then it will take time for Tories to admit they cannot stop it and so it will most likely be in mid to late 2021 as Holyrood elections to be done etc. SNP will want something agreed before end 2020 but the referendum will not happen till 2021.
I would have thought May 2022 should be favourite. That would be a year after Holyrood, there should be some clarity over Brexit by then and Boris Johnson will probably have been sacked so the new leader will have a weaker democratic mandate.
SNIP
Ydoethur, what are the big problems, the perennial education same as rest of UK, NHS ditto. We know Tories and Labour cannot solve these issues and its Westminster that allocates the cash so how would that impact the SNP. GFiven there is absolutely no opposition from the London parties who people know will do nothing for Scotland I cannot think of anything else unless there are big revelations at Alex's trial.
Actually, no Malcolm. The indicators for health and education are worse than particularly England. Now before you point out - correctly - that there are a number of very good reasons for this that are nothing to do with the SNP, I would have thought the fact that they are all going the wrong way despite what have been energetic efforts by the Holyrood government to improve, e.g. the public health and preventative health systems, should give pause for thought. The Salmond trial was also another big challenge I was thinking of. That could be Profumo on speed - or, of course, a damp squib. We don’t know yet.
Of course, the situation in Scotland is far better than the one in Wales and Labour keep clinging on like limpets who have had superglue added. But getting a majority in 2021 even with Green support doesn’t look like a gimme from here.
I do agree they need to get a grip on education , NHS has better numbers than England and most of it is tied to what Westminster does as we just get a % of what they get and so SNP can only do what they can with what is allocated. All the main powers are held by Westminster and so it is tough to be able to make changes on big things like education and NHS with your hands tied.
The problem for Labour is that having lost its working class base, its new base is a young, metropolitan middle class. They can be kept on side by promises of annulling student debt, rent controls etc. but such measures are impossibly expensive and offer nothing to the other voters they need to attract.
The result that really caused my jaw to drop in the small hours of Friday morning was Mansfield.
In Blair's big win in 1997, it had a Labour majority of 20,000. In 2005 it was still 11,000.
It was my personal WTF???? moment of 2017 when the Tories took it. I know Mansfield. The idea it could go Tory was off-the-scale bonkers. Yet it went blue with a majority of a little over 1,000.
So what was the reaction to the town of having a Tory MP for a couple of years. Any degree of buyers remorse? Might the hope he embodied turn to ash?
Nope.
There was a further swing to the Conservatives. Of an astonishing 15.5%. He now has a majority of 16,300. That is Tory-shire safe.
If this response proves anything like the response in those seats the Tories took on Thursday, Labour is dead in the water for several more Parliaments.
The Mansfield Tory MP has a reputation for being both assiduous and focussed on his seat. Unlike former Labour MPs, e.g. the one in 1987 who called all his voters twats for not coming out in 1984 (they still elected him, of course).
That should be a lesson for these new MPs. Most of these areas have been appallingly neglected by all governments. THis has encouraged a pre-existing parochialism that leads them to view London with suspicion. If they see their MPs fighting for local interests, I have little doubt they will back them again. If not...
Well - the 'bubble' has got so many things wrong in the past few years it's very funny to see them all doubling down - I love the Comedy club has banned Tories from having a laugh now. Really a period of silence would be their most appropriate response for a while now - at the moment all they want to do is shout and rant at the lovely northern lady in the santa hatI saw on the Beeb just now who summed the whole thing up wonderfully - she preferred Remain but a vote was made in 2016 and now another one 3 years later - do it and move on. I'd love to force Owen Jones et al to spend a day listening to people like her then get some proper jobs and a life.
The problem for Labour is that having lost its working class base, its new base is a young, metropolitan middle class. They can be kept on side by promises of annulling student debt, rent controls etc. but such measures are impossibly expensive and offer nothing to the other voters they need to attract.
The result that really caused my jaw to drop in the small hours of Friday morning was Mansfield.
In Blair's big win in 1997, it had a Labour majority of 20,000. In 2005 it was still 11,000.
It was my personal WTF???? moment of 2017 when the Tories took it. I know Mansfield. The idea it could go Tory was off-the-scale bonkers. Yet it went blue with a majority of a little over 1,000.
So what was the reaction to the town of having a Tory MP for a couple of years. Any degree of buyers remorse? Might the hope he embodied turn to ash?
Nope.
There was a further swing to the Conservatives. Of an astonishing 15.5%. He now has a majority of 16,300. That is Tory-shire safe.
If this response proves anything like the response in those seats the Tories took on Thursday, Labour is dead in the water for several more Parliaments.
BTW my stepson says the story of the child on the floor in A and E was true... was it? I thought it had been found to be fake???
It was true. You must have been caught out by fake news, Russian trolls, or CCHQ muddying the waters. As an aside, the child's mother complained to OFCOM, or rather CCHQ did so on her behalf, in an attempt to suppress the story.
I think everyone was.. but its just the sort of dirty thing Labour would do. I was prepared to believe it was not true for that very reason.
This will, I fear, in time become the story of this election. Dirty tricks, doubtless from all sides, on social media and elsewhere. It is hard to refute your opponents' argument if you do not even know what that opponent is saying. We are also moving closer to America in that each side has its own facts and truth does not matter.
Its the media's job to call out the lies, but they are not very good at it or do not want to Suppose C4 news called out the Tories on something. C4 news is so left wing it must be breaking its charter on impartiality. I would not trust C4 news under any circumstances whatsoever.
You prefer the lies of the likes of the mail and Express or the state propaganda unit I presume
The state propaganda unit’s “journalists” have not even been trying to conceal their delight at The Clown’s victory. It’ll end in tears.
Yes The "sainted" Nicola is heading for a fall.
Nicola is not remotely saint like. She’s a lovely, down to earth lady. She’s had her fair share of life’s ups and downs, and will cope just fine with the challenges ahead, both private and public.
She's easily the most effective political operator we've got - and without the manifest personal failings of the two UK main party leaders. But Mr Gravity is patient and relentless - when he finally does come calling, who is to replace her?
Fortunately, talent is not a scarce resource in our party.
“Scottish Labour voters prefer proper Coke to Diet Coke”.
SLab can’t sell Indy Lite any more. There are clear sign that the coin has dropped. SLab are moving slowly but surely towards abandoning full-blooded Unionism.
They need Leonard out the door, they can choose someone off the street that could do a better job than him.
BTW my stepson says the story of the child on the floor in A and E was true... was it? I thought it had been found to be fake???
It was true. You must have been caught out by fake news, Russian trolls, or CCHQ muddying the waters. As an aside, the child's mother complained to OFCOM, or rather CCHQ did so on her behalf, in an attempt to suppress the story.
I think everyone was.. but its just the sort of dirty thing Labour would do. I was prepared to believe it was not true for that very reason.
This will, I fear, in time become the story of this election. Dirty tricks, doubtless from all sides, on social media and elsewhere. It is hard to refute your opponents' argument if you do not even know what that opponent is saying. We are also moving closer to America in that each side has its own facts and truth does not matter.
Its the media's job to call out the lies, but they are not very good at it or do not want to Suppose C4 news called out the Tories on something. C4 news is so left wing it must be breaking its charter on impartiality. I would not trust C4 news under any circumstances whatsoever.
You prefer the lies of the likes of the mail and Express or the state propaganda unit I presume
The state propaganda unit’s “journalists” have not even been trying to conceal their delight at The Clown’s victory. It’ll end in tears.
Yes The "sainted" Nicola is heading for a fall.
Nicola is not remotely saint like. She’s a lovely, down to earth lady. She’s had her fair share of life’s ups and downs, and will cope just fine with the challenges ahead, both private and public.
She's easily the most effective political operator we've got - and without the manifest personal failings of the two UK main party leaders. But Mr Gravity is patient and relentless - when he finally does come calling, who is to replace her?
Fortunately, talent is not a scarce resource in our party.
Ian Blackford is by far the most effective opposition leader in the Commons.
BTW my stepson says the story of the child on the floor in A and E was true... was it? I thought it had been found to be fake???
It was true. You must have been caught out by fake news, Russian trolls, or CCHQ muddying the waters. As an aside, the child's mother complained to OFCOM, or rather CCHQ did so on her behalf, in an attempt to suppress the story.
I think everyone was.. but its just the sort of dirty thing Labour would do. I was prepared to believe it was not true for that very reason.
This will, I fear, in time become the story of this election. Dirty tricks, doubtless from all sides, on social media and elsewhere. It is hard to refute your opponents' argument if you do not even know what that opponent is saying. We are also moving closer to America in that each side has its own facts and truth does not matter.
Its the media's job to call out the lies, but they are not very good at it or do not want to Suppose C4 news called out the Tories on something. C4 news is so left wing it must be breaking its charter on impartiality. I would not trust C4 news under any circumstances whatsoever.
You prefer the lies of the likes of the mail and Express or the state propaganda unit I presume
The state propaganda unit’s “journalists” have not even been trying to conceal their delight at The Clown’s victory. It’ll end in tears.
Yes The "sainted" Nicola is heading for a fall.
Nicola is not remotely saint like. She’s a lovely, down to earth lady. She’s had her fair share of life’s ups and downs, and will cope just fine with the challenges ahead, both private and public.
She's easily the most effective political operator we've got - and without the manifest personal failings of the two UK main party leaders. But Mr Gravity is patient and relentless - when he finally does come calling, who is to replace her?
Fortunately, talent is not a scarce resource in our party.
How the HoC is looking forward to the return of Blackford.......
Somewhat unusually I disagree fairly fundamentally with this piece. The lessons I think that we learned from the last incompetent Parliament are:
1. Breaking into the existing oligopoly of parties is incredibly difficult. The Tiggers were annihilated and the Brexit Party did no better. Those that went out on their own are all now ex-MP. Parliament is the sort of closed shop that your most militant shop steward can only dream of.
2. The weakness and incompetence of Labour led to their increasing collapse in Scotland where there is the sort of centre left alternative that does not exist in England. There may be no way back there now.
3. The Lib Dems made several strategic mistakes but their biggest by far was not going for Labour's throat when they were so vulnerable. If they want to play a major role in our governance, as opposed to a minor role in our politics, they need to replace Labour in the same way as the SNP have. They will almost certainly never get a better chance.
The sad conclusion I have come to, which I think nearly all politicians will now share, is that breaking away from the existing structures is fatal. Far better to hang in there and seek to change the mood inside the party.
There is huge anger in Labour about what the Corbynists did to their party, the disgusting moral failings, the delusional economics and, most fundamentally, losing. Whether that anger can be marshaled into a regaining of the party by the moderates remains to be seen but even if they fail the institutional strength of the oligopoly protects Labour from too much harm.
The ones that are supposedly angry will need to grow a backbone , they were happy to go along with it and just keep pocketing the cash. They put money and self preservation before integrity and principles.
But those that did show backbone are no longer in Parliament or in a position to influence anything. That is the point. Stay inside the tent and fight.
Somewhat unusually I disagree fairly fundamentally with this piece. The lessons I think that we learned from the last incompetent Parliament are:
1. Breaking into the existing oligopoly of parties is incredibly difficult. The Tiggers were annihilated and the Brexit Party did no better. Those that went out on their own are all now ex-MP. Parliament is the sort of closed shop that your most militant shop steward can only dream of.
2. The weakness and incompetence of Labour led to their increasing collapse in Scotland where there is the sort of centre left alternative that does not exist in England. There may be no way back there now.
3. The Lib Dems made several strategic mistakes but their biggest by far was not going for Labour's throat when they were so vulnerable. If they want to play a major role in our governance, as opposed to a minor role in our politics, they need to replace Labour in the same way as the SNP have. They will almost certainly never get a better chance.
The sad conclusion I have come to, which I think nearly all politicians will now share, is that breaking away from the existing structures is fatal. Far better to hang in there and seek to change the mood inside the party.
There is huge anger in Labour about what the Corbynists did to their party, the disgusting moral failings, the delusional economics and, most fundamentally, losing. Whether that anger can be marshaled into a regaining of the party by the moderates remains to be seen but even if they fail the institutional strength of the oligopoly protects Labour from too much harm.
From a distance it seems to me that throughout the SNP's rise to replace Labour, they went out of their way to stay anti-Tory?
If anyone still hasn't had their fill of political betting....
Betfred 4/11 no indyref2 before end 2020. That's a winner to me after Boris's phone call with Nicola last night.
If you want insurance, Paddys are 10/1 indyref2 does take place in 2020. That's a more realistic price imo but DYOR.
Good return for tying your cash up for a year. Given nothing can start till Brexit is done, even then it will take time for Tories to admit they cannot stop it and so it will most likely be in mid to late 2021 as Holyrood elections to be done etc. SNP will want something agreed before end 2020 but the referendum will not happen till 2021.
I would have thought May 2022 should be favourite. That would be a year after Holyrood, there should be some clarity over Brexit by then and Boris Johnson will probably have been sacked so the new leader will have a weaker democratic mandate.
SNIP
Ydoethur, what are the big problems, the perennial education same as rest of UK, NHS ditto. We know Tories and Labour cannot solve these issues and its Westminster that allocates the cash so how would that impact the SNP. GFiven there is absolutely no opposition from the London parties who people know will do nothing for Scotland I cannot think of anything else unless there are big revelations at Alex's trial.
Actually, no Malcolm. The indicators for health and education are worse than particularly England. Now before you point out - correctly - that there are a number of very good reasons for this that are nothing to do with the SNP, I would have thought the fact that they are all going the wrong way despite what have been energetic efforts by the Holyrood government to improve, e.g. the public health and preventative health systems, should give pause for thought. The Salmond trial was also another big challenge I was thinking of. That could be Profumo on speed - or, of course, a damp squib. We don’t know yet.
Of course, the situation in Scotland is far better than the one in Wales and Labour keep clinging on like limpets who have had superglue added. But getting a majority in 2021 even with Green support doesn’t look like a gimme from here.
I do agree they need to get a grip on education , NHS has better numbers than England and most of it is tied to what Westminster does as we just get a % of what they get and so SNP can only do what they can with what is allocated. All the main powers are held by Westminster and so it is tough to be able to make changes on big things like education and NHS with your hands tied.
That is of course the SNP line. And there is an element of truth in it. I just wonder how long it will work for.
BTW my stepson says the story of the child on the floor in A and E was true... was it? I thought it had been found to be fake???
It was true. You must have been caught out by fake news, Russian trolls, or CCHQ muddying the waters. As an aside, the child's mother complained to OFCOM, or rather CCHQ did so on her behalf, in an attempt to suppress the story.
I think everyone was.. but its just the sort of dirty thing Labour would do. I was prepared to believe it was not true for that very reason.
This will, I fear, in time become the story of this election. Dirty tricks, doubtless from all sides, on social media and elsewhere. It is hard to refute your opponents' argument if you do not even know what that opponent is saying. We are also moving closer to America in that each side has its own facts and truth does not matter.
Its the media's job to call out the lies, but they are not very good at it or do not want to Suppose C4 news called out the Tories on something. C4 news is so left wing it must be breaking its charter on impartiality. I would not trust C4 news under any circumstances whatsoever.
You prefer the lies of the likes of the mail and Express or the state propaganda unit I presume
The state propaganda unit’s “journalists” have not even been trying to conceal their delight at The Clown’s victory. It’ll end in tears.
Yes The "sainted" Nicola is heading for a fall.
Nicola is not remotely saint like. She’s a lovely, down to earth lady. She’s had her fair share of life’s ups and downs, and will cope just fine with the challenges ahead, both private and public.
I once bumped into her at the Partick DSS. She’s seen real life. Unlike most Tory toe-rags.
Its towns v cities, global v local. This is about those areas of the country who feel they have taken the hit on globalism trying to get back on their feet.
If the Tories can consolidate their gains we'll be looking at a new landscape.
Yep.
By fighting on the genius and simple slogan “Get Brexit Done,” he exposed the deep divides on the left, unified the right, and knocked his opponents for six (if you will forgive a cricket metaphor). But just as important, he moved the party sharply left on austerity, spending on public services, tax cuts for the working poor, and a higher minimum wage. He outflanked the far right on Brexit and shamelessly echoed the left on economic policy.
That is the theory. Now for the delivery. If Johnson really is going to tack left he will need to take a right-wing party with him - at a time when the UK is facing significant economic headwinds. It will mean the Tories having to accept higher taxes and more borrowing over a sustained period and putting all dreams of Singapore-on-Thames to bed. It will also mean having to do an all-encompassing trade deal with the EU and keeping immigration levels high. We’ll see what happens!
Singapore on Thames (in so far as it ever existed) fell yesterday along with Labour’s Northern Red Wall. Boris has to deliver for the North and pronto.
I agree. Social democracy is a very European concept. If Johnson recognises that and persuades the Tories to accept it, then that will genuinely be a revolution. But it will mean, from a Tory perspective, some very tough choices. Are people like Raab, Javid, Patel, Rees Mogg, Truss and co really prepared for that? Who is in Johnson’s praetorian guard? Tacking left means there has to be a big, broad deal with the EU, further extensions and close ongoing alignment. It makes a WTO Brexit impossible.
“Are people like Raab, Javid, Patel, Rees Mogg, Truss and co really prepared for that?”
Get rid of them if they won’t play along. It’s not as if they were integral to Boris’s victory or played a big part in it. And there are plenty of new MPs around. Some Northern voices in government would help.
In many ways Boris’s strategy is very similar to the one May set out in her speech on becoming PM. If he learns from her mistakes he could achieve a great deal. It will be interesting to see what he does. I hope for the sake of those who have put their trust in him that all this new found enthusiasm for the North and the left behind lasts longer than one good speech.
BTW my stepson says the story of the child on the floor in A and E was true... was it? I thought it had been found to be fake???
It was true. You must have been caught out by fake news, Russian trolls, or CCHQ muddying the waters. As an aside, the child's mother complained to OFCOM, or rather CCHQ did so on her behalf, in an attempt to suppress the story.
I think everyone was.. but its just the sort of dirty thing Labour would do. I was prepared to believe it was not true for that very reason.
This will, I fear, in time become the story of this election. Dirty tricks, doubtless from all sides, on social media and elsewhere. It is hard to refute your opponents' argument if you do not even know what that opponent is saying. We are also moving closer to America in that each side has its own facts and truth does not matter.
Its the media's job to call out the lies, but they are not very good at it or do not want to Suppose C4 news called out the Tories on something. C4 news is so left wing it must be breaking its charter on impartiality. I would not trust C4 news under any circumstances whatsoever.
You prefer the lies of the likes of the mail and Express or the state propaganda unit I presume
The state propaganda unit’s “journalists” have not even been trying to conceal their delight at The Clown’s victory. It’ll end in tears.
Yes The "sainted" Nicola is heading for a fall.
Nicola is not remotely saint like. She’s a lovely, down to earth lady. She’s had her fair share of life’s ups and downs, and will cope just fine with the challenges ahead, both private and public.
She's easily the most effective political operator we've got - and without the manifest personal failings of the two UK main party leaders. But Mr Gravity is patient and relentless - when he finally does come calling, who is to replace her?
Fortunately, talent is not a scarce resource in our party.
How the HoC is looking forward to the return of Blackford.......
No doubt the ignorant Tories will once again show why they are called the NASTY party. They hate to see people with principles and integrity, it really riles them and shows up their nastiness.
Its towns v cities, global v local. This is about those areas of the country who feel they have taken the hit on globalism trying to get back on their feet.
If the Tories can consolidate their gains we'll be looking at a new landscape.
Yep.
By fighting on the genius and simple slogan “Get Brexit Done,” he exposed the deep divides on the left, unified the right, and knocked his opponents for six (if you will forgive a cricket metaphor). But just as important, he moved the party sharply left on austerity, spending on public services, tax cuts for the working poor, and a higher minimum wage. He outflanked the far right on Brexit and shamelessly echoed the left on economic policy.
This is Trumpism without Trump. A conservative future without an ineffective and polarizing nutjob at the heart of it. Johnson now has a mandate to enact this new Tory alignment, and he will be far more competent than Trump at it. Unlike Trump, he will stop E.U. mass migration, and pass a new immigration system, based on the Australian model. Unlike Trump, he will focus tax cuts on the working poor, not the decadent rich.
That is the theory. Now for the delivery. If Johnson really is going to tack left he will need to take a right-wing party with him - at a time when the UK is facing significant economic headwinds. It will mean the Tories having to accept higher taxes and more borrowing over a sustained period and putting all dreams of Singapore-on-Thames to bed. It will also mean having to do an all-encompassing trade deal with the EU and keeping immigration levels high. We’ll see what happens!
He has already set the precedent by cancelling the cut in CT. The budget in February will increase spending sharply and increase the tax burden too. There may be some flashy "cut" somewhere like the promised NI cut helping the lower paid but the overall tax burden will increase, no question.
BTW my stepson says the story of the child on the floor in A and E was true... was it? I thought it had been found to be fake???
It was true. You must have been caught out by fake news, Russian trolls, or CCHQ muddying the waters. As an aside, the child's mother complained to OFCOM, or rather CCHQ did so on her behalf, in an attempt to suppress the story.
I think everyone was.. but its just the sort of dirty thing Labour would do. I was prepared to believe it was not true for that very reason.
This will, I fear, in time become the story of this election. Dirty tricks, doubtless from all sides, on social media and elsewhere. It is hard to refute your opponents' argument if you do not even know what that opponent is saying. We are also moving closer to America in that each side has its own facts and truth does not matter.
Its the media's job to call out the lies, but they are not very good at it or do not want to Suppose C4 news called out the Tories on something. C4 news is so left wing it must be breaking its charter on impartiality. I would not trust C4 news under any circumstances whatsoever.
You prefer the lies of the likes of the mail and Express or the state propaganda unit I presume
The state propaganda unit’s “journalists” have not even been trying to conceal their delight at The Clown’s victory. It’ll end in tears.
Yes The "sainted" Nicola is heading for a fall.
Nicola is not remotely saint like. She’s a lovely, down to earth lady. She’s had her fair share of life’s ups and downs, and will cope just fine with the challenges ahead, both private and public.
She's easily the most effective political operator we've got - and without the manifest personal failings of the two UK main party leaders. But Mr Gravity is patient and relentless - when he finally does come calling, who is to replace her?
Fortunately, talent is not a scarce resource in our party.
Ian Blackford is by far the most effective opposition leader in the Commons.
The alternatives before the election were Corbyn, Grieve, Hammond, Swinson, Dodds. Four of those lost their seats. That leaves Corbyn as the sample size.
‘He’s more effective than a racist supporter of terrorism’ is damning with the faintest of faint praise...
Speaking of which, more Labour MPs need to stop pussyfooting about and call for him to resign or be subject to a vote of no confidence. This window to replace him with a non-mental leader won't last forever.
BTW my stepson says the story of the child on the floor in A and E was true... was it? I thought it had been found to be fake???
It was true. You must have been caught out by fake news, Russian trolls, or CCHQ muddying the waters. As an aside, the child's mother complained to OFCOM, or rather CCHQ did so on her behalf, in an attempt to suppress the story.
I think everyone was.. but its just the sort of dirty thing Labour would do. I was prepared to believe it was not true for that very reason.
This will, I fear, in time become the story of this election. Dirty tricks, doubtless from all sides, on social media and elsewhere. It is hard to refute your opponents' argument if you do not even know what that opponent is saying. We are also moving closer to America in that each side has its own facts and truth does not matter.
Its the media's job to call out the lies, but they are not very good at it or do not want to Suppose C4 news called out the Tories on something. C4 news is so left wing it must be breaking its charter on impartiality. I would not trust C4 news under any circumstances whatsoever.
You prefer the lies of the likes of the mail and Express or the state propaganda unit I presume
The state propaganda unit’s “journalists” have not even been trying to conceal their delight at The Clown’s victory. It’ll end in tears.
Yes The "sainted" Nicola is heading for a fall.
Nicola is not remotely saint like. She’s a lovely, down to earth lady. She’s had her fair share of life’s ups and downs, and will cope just fine with the challenges ahead, both private and public.
She's easily the most effective political operator we've got - and without the manifest personal failings of the two UK main party leaders. But Mr Gravity is patient and relentless - when he finally does come calling, who is to replace her?
Angus Robertson or Mike Russell would do a good job, personally prefer the former. My first choice would be to bring back the King across the Water after he is exonerated.
@Alistair Best to be in a governing parties marginal I reckon though if you want attention for your constituency. My own seat has gone straight to safe seat for the Tories though lol
BTW my stepson says the story of the child on the floor in A and E was true... was it? I thought it had been found to be fake???
It was true. You must have been caught out by fake news, Russian trolls, or CCHQ muddying the waters. As an aside, the child's mother complained to OFCOM, or rather CCHQ did so on her behalf, in an attempt to suppress the story.
I think everyone was.. but its just the sort of dirty thing Labour would do. I was prepared to believe it was not true for that very reason.
This will, I fear, in time become the story of this election. Dirty tricks, doubtless from all sides, on social media and elsewhere. It is hard to refute your opponents' argument if you do not even know what that opponent is saying. We are also moving closer to America in that each side has its own facts and truth does not matter.
You prefer the lies of the likes of the mail and Express or the state propaganda unit I presume
The state propaganda unit’s “journalists” have not even been trying to conceal their delight at The Clown’s victory. It’ll end in tears.
Yes The "sainted" Nicola is heading for a fall.
Nicola is not remotely saint like. She’s a lovely, down to earth lady. She’s had her fair share of life’s ups and downs, and will cope just fine with the challenges ahead, both private and public.
She's easily the most effective political operator we've got - and without the manifest personal failings of the two UK main party leaders. But Mr Gravity is patient and relentless - when he finally does come calling, who is to replace her?
Fortunately, talent is not a scarce resource in our party.
Ian Blackford is by far the most effective opposition leader in the Commons.
He's a pompous windbag not fit to clean Angus Robertson's shoes. "More effective than Jeremy Corbyn" is not a high hurdle.
BTW my stepson says the story of the child on the floor in A and E was true... was it? I thought it had been found to be fake???
It was true. You must have been caught out by fake news, Russian trolls, or CCHQ muddying the waters. As an aside, the child's mother complained to OFCOM, or rather CCHQ did so on her behalf, in an attempt to suppress the story.
Leeds A&E -- two false stories -- an analysis of how they spread on social media, with the aid of mainstream reporters including from the Sun, Telegraph and Mail, as well as Guido.
Fake news 1: pictures of an ill boy on the floor had themselves been faked Fake news 2: an aide to Health Secretary Matt Hancock was punched by a Labour mob
What annoyed me about that story is I didn't hear any more about it. I'd have genuinely been interested if the BBC or whoever had gone to the hospital and interview the parents and hospital staff to explain how it came to that situation.
and what about the "news item".. about Boris avoiding an interview with Andrew Neil... on the BBC that had n zillion views that Mr Smithson put up saying it was important (IIRC) and supposedly was going to affect voting.. of course it did no such thing.
I don't think that avoiding the Neil interview likely had much effect either way, but I still think it is an absolute disgrace that it happened. It's like a team that won 3-0 but one of its goals was scored by blatant cheating. The victory would have happened anyway but the result is still tarnished.
Crap. Journalists have no right to tell the politicians how to campaign nor should television be political players in the campaign either. They should report the news impartially and let the voters decide.
As a voter I have no opportunity to meet PM candidates personally, I rely on journalists to ask them tough questions and subject them to scrutiny so I can make an informed choice. The other leaders understood that and did the interview. It speaks poorly of Johnson that he ducked it, and poorly of his supporters that they think it's ok.
You can read what they say, listen to their speeches... you don't need a journalist loking for cheap headlines or with their own agendas to do democracy for you. If you don't like the voters as you imply above because of it who the f*** cares.
As a voter I have no opportunity to meet PM candidates personally, I rely on journalists to ask them tough questions and subject them to scrutiny so I can make an informed choice. The other leaders understood that and did the interview. It speaks poorly of Johnson that he ducked it, and poorly of his supporters that they think it's ok.
I’d have more sympathy with their claims if they wouldn’t have been (rightly) all over Corbyn had he ducked it.
But yes, it shows him as a coward. Just as cancelling the rally in Brecon did in the summer.
Johnson turned out to be similar as a campaigner to May. But fortunately for him his advisers avoided the hubristic policy offering that was May’s mistake.
BTW my stepson says the story of the child on the floor in A and E was true... was it? I thought it had been found to be fake???
It was true. You must have been caught out by fake news, Russian trolls, or CCHQ muddying the waters. As an aside, the child's mother complained to OFCOM, or rather CCHQ did so on her behalf, in an attempt to suppress the story.
I think everyone was.. but its just the sort of dirty thing Labour would do. I was prepared to believe it was not true for that very reason.
This will, I fear, in time become the story of this election. Dirty tricks, doubtless from all sides, on social media and elsewhere. It is hard to refute your opponents' argument if you do not even know what that opponent is saying. We are also moving closer to America in that each side has its own facts and truth does not matter.
Its the media's job to call out the lies, but they are not very good at it or do not want to Suppose C4 news called out the Tories on something. C4 news is so left wing it must be breaking its charter on impartiality. I would not trust C4 news under any circumstances whatsoever.
You prefer the lies of the likes of the mail and Express or the state propaganda unit I presume
The state propaganda unit’s “journalists” have not even been trying to conceal their delight at The Clown’s victory. It’ll end in tears.
Yes The "sainted" Nicola is heading for a fall.
Nicola is not remotely saint like. She’s a lovely, down to earth lady. She’s had her fair share of life’s ups and downs, and will cope just fine with the challenges ahead, both private and public.
She's easily the most effective political operator we've got - and without the manifest personal failings of the two UK main party leaders. But Mr Gravity is patient and relentless - when he finally does come calling, who is to replace her?
Fortunately, talent is not a scarce resource in our party.
You are joking. Derek Mackay is just embarrassingly stupid. The current Scottish Cabinet, Nicola apart is shockingly poor. Even Swinney has made a complete mess of education and he is one of the better ones. Jeane Freeman, I mean, words just fail me.
Speaking of which, more Labour MPs need to stop pussyfooting about and call for him to resign or be subject to a vote of no confidence. This window to replace him with a non-mental leader won't last forever.
Speaking of which, more Labour MPs need to stop pussyfooting about and call for him to resign or be subject to a vote of no confidence. This window to replace him with a non-mental leader won't last forever.
What window? It is nearly Christmas already. And Corbyn has already said he is stepping down, so who is going to be fired up?
Somewhat unusually I disagree fairly fundamentally with this piece. The lessons I think that we learned from the last incompetent Parliament are:
1. Breaking into the existing oligopoly of parties is incredibly difficult. The Tiggers were annihilated and the Brexit Party did no better. Those that went out on their own are all now ex-MP. Parliament is the sort of closed shop that your most militant shop steward can only dream of.
2. The weakness and incompetence of Labour led to their increasing collapse in Scotland where there is the sort of centre left alternative that does not exist in England. There may be no way back there now.
3. The Lib Dems made several strategic mistakes but their biggest by far was not going for Labour's throat when they were so vulnerable. If they want to play a major role in our governance, as opposed to a minor role in our politics, they need to replace Labour in the same way as the SNP have. They will almost certainly never get a better chance.
The sad conclusion I have come to, which I think nearly all politicians will now share, is that breaking away from the existing structures is fatal. Far better to hang in there and seek to change the mood inside the party.
There is huge anger in Labour about what the Corbynists did to their party, the disgusting moral failings, the delusional economics and, most fundamentally, losing. Whether that anger can be marshaled into a regaining of the party by the moderates remains to be seen but even if they fail the institutional strength of the oligopoly protects Labour from too much harm.
From a distance it seems to me that throughout the SNP's rise to replace Labour, they went out of their way to stay anti-Tory?
A large part of my family, brothers, wives partners and their children are corbyn fans to an extreme they are already blaming anyone but corbyn even the voters for getting it wrong. They will go with Long Bailey or Rayner and go even further to the left. Winning is far less important than keeping the Labour Party pure.
@Alistair Best to be in a governing parties marginal I reckon though if you want attention for your constituency. My own seat has gone straight to safe seat for the Tories though lol
I was hoping that the Lib Dems might get a bit closer to the Tories in Woking for that very reason.
That said, I don't think governments worry too much about this sort of thing.
None of the parties should rush to a new direction. They can make working assumptions about broad components that will be in place at the next election, but those will need careful thought too.
The next election in Britain is likely to be fought at a time of continuing chronic economic underperformance, given the handicap Brexit will continue to place on Britain, Britain’s influence will have continued to vaporise, it having withdrawn from the first division of nations, and the country is likely to be still more divided, inward-looking and surly. The successful party is probably going to need to craft a positive message for people who have been let down yet again and who have lost all belief in promises. Getting that message is going to need careful thought.
Way too negative, and a bit bitter.
A new practical relationship with the EU will be forged and we will move on.
No doubt the ignorant Tories will once again show why they are called the NASTY party. They hate to see people with principles and integrity, it really riles them and shows up their nastiness.
I can't think of any forthcoming legal proceedings which might in any way render that post a hostage to fortune.
BTW my stepson says the story of the child on the floor in A and E was true... was it? I thought it had been found to be fake???
It was true. You must have been caught out by fake news, Russian trolls, or CCHQ muddying the waters. As an aside, the child's mother complained to OFCOM, or rather CCHQ did so on her behalf, in an attempt to suppress the story.
I think everyone was.. but its just the sort of dirty thing Labour would do. I was prepared to believe it was not true for that very reason.
This will, I fear, in time become the story of this election. Dirty tricks, doubtless from all sides, on social media and elsewhere. It is hard to refute your opponents' argument if you do not even know what that opponent is saying. We are also moving closer to America in that each side has its own facts and truth does not matter.
Its the media's job to call out the lies, but they are not very good at it or do not want to Suppose C4 news called out the Tories on something. C4 news is so left wing it must be breaking its charter on impartiality. I would not trust C4 news under any circumstances whatsoever.
You prefer the lies of the likes of the mail and Express or the state propaganda unit I presume
The state propaganda unit’s “journalists” have not even been trying to conceal their delight at The Clown’s victory. It’ll end in tears.
Yes The "sainted" Nicola is heading for a fall.
Nicola is not remotely saint like. She’s a lovely, down to earth lady. She’s had her fair share of life’s ups and downs, and will cope just fine with the challenges ahead, both private and public.
I once bumped into her at the Partick DSS. She’s seen real life. Unlike most Tory toe-rags.
A good magnanimous move by Boris would be to bring Theresa May back into cabinet.
Maybe DEFRA would be good.
Boris can't bring Theresa May back into office. Imagine her first interview with Andrew Neil, or even Holly Willoughby: nice shoes; you restricted Boris's access to secret information because he was a security risk; what's changed?
She's easily the most effective political operator we've got - and without the manifest personal failings of the two UK main party leaders. But Mr Gravity is patient and relentless - when he finally does come calling, who is to replace her?
Angus Robertson or Mike Russell would do a good job, personally prefer the former. My first choice would be to bring back the King across the Water after he is exonerated.
Salmond is 64 and has had two spells as leader. Mike Russell is 66. Do you really have nobody younger to replace him? You don’t want to end up like UKIP or Brexit and riding on the popularity of one person no matter how charismatic or effective. (And I say that noting your point on Robertson where I would tend to agree despite his umm, interesting expenses claims, but he’s not in Holyrood or Westminster right now and shows no sign of wishing to return.)
Mr. JohnL, the longer they wait the more the far left will rewrite history and try to get a ContinuityCorbyn candidate in.
MPs can vote no confidence in Corbyn. And should if he doesn't step down immediately. Rid themselves of the socialist at the top and they can start to rebuild.
Mr. glw, to be fair, at least Wolf's consistent. Demonstrably wrong about the past, demonstrably wrong about the present.
The problem for Labour is that having lost its working class base, its new base is a young, metropolitan middle class. They can be kept on side by promises of annulling student debt, rent controls etc. but such measures are impossibly expensive and offer nothing to the other voters they need to attract.
And judging by my own youngsters these promises weren’t even believed. Take the free broadband one - the instant reaction was that such a government service would probably be “shit” and, when told that there would be no other choice, unprintable. I am not at all sure that Corbyn’s Labour really does have its finger on the pulse of the young metropolitan middle class, as opposed to a subset of it. They want what their parents were able to get. A party which gives the impression that it hates the concept of private property is not that in touch with the aspiring middle classes.
BTW my stepson says the story of the child on the floor in A and E was true... was it? I thought it had been found to be fake???
I think everyone was.. but its just the sort of dirty thing Labour would do. I was prepared to believe it was not true for that very reason.
This will, I fear, in time become the story of this election. Dirty tricks, doubtless from all sides, on social media and elsewhere. It is hard to refute your opponents' argument if you do not even know what that opponent is saying. We are also moving closer to America in that each side has its own facts and truth does not matter.
Its the media's job to call out the lies, but they are not very good at it or do not want to Suppose C4 news called out the Tories on something. C4 news is so left wing it must be breaking its charter on impartiality. I would not trust C4 news under any circumstances whatsoever.
You prefer the lies of the likes of the mail and Express or the state propaganda unit I presume
The state propaganda unit’s “journalists” have not even been trying to conceal their delight at The Clown’s victory. It’ll end in tears.
Yes The "sainted" Nicola is heading for a fall.
Nicola is not remotely saint like. She’s a lovely, down to earth lady. She’s had her fair share of life’s ups and downs, and will cope just fine with the challenges ahead, both private and public.
She's easily the most effective political operator we've got - and without the manifest personal failings of the two UK main party leaders. But Mr Gravity is patient and relentless - when he finally does come calling, who is to replace her?
Angus Robertson or Mike Russell would do a good job, personally prefer the former. My first choice would be to bring back the King across the Water after he is exonerated.
I had a lot of time for Angus Robertson - he judged the house well on difficult occasions and frequently raised the tenor of the debate. Not something that can be said for his verbose pompous ranty successor. Pity he's left politics. As for Alex we'll have to see - but I'd have thought what ever the verdict his time in front-line politics is over. He's in his mid-60s and his wife in her early 80s - I hope they enjoy a long and happy retirement, but time is not on their side.
Some simple tests for Johnson to see how he is going to behave
Not rushing the withdrawal bill through just to do it this year Allow scrutiny and amendments aimed at improving aspects of the bill Willingness to accept the need for a transition period extension if it isn’t resolved by 30/6 and honesty about progress so it is obvious he isn’t try to back door WTO brexit. His first budget who wins and who loses.
After that we can start to judge him, is he capable of thoughtful, intelligent government or will he continue to grandstand unnecessary deadlines and positions just to prove he has steel balls.
So I'm thinking: Ditch Corbyn (happening). Brexit (hard to know whether to campaign to rejoin or just mitigate the damage) Economic policies (not a major factor in defeat, probably important to narrow the offer and focus attention on priorities as cyclefree suggested in her excellent previous header).
Comments
This chimes with post-ge2015 surveys which found similarly that voters liked Labour's analyses and policies but did not think Ed Miliband could run a bath.
SNP will want something agreed before end 2020 but the referendum will not happen till 2021.
ETA: the Conservatives had clear messages. Get Brexit Done. More hospitals, nurses and coppers.
Labour had a confused ragbag of every thought that had ever passed through Seamus Milne's head, with little thought to practicability, desirability or even priority. Labour became so obsessed with costing the manifesto, no-one stepped back to consider what was in it.
Meanwhile, the Conservatives ate their lunch.
People here don't like uppity politicians, the people are sovereign not some fly by night no user who does not even live in the country.
She is obviously either stupid or super egotistical and has been hung by her own petard.
Is there going to be an election for Scottish Tory leader? Jackson Carlaw is doing a creditable job, but he's not been elected.
The slightly awkward hurdle for the SNP is whether they and the Greens can command a majority in 2021. After 14 years of rule and probably a second change of leader will the SNP shine come off? Given the weakness of the opposition it seems improbable but it certainty isn’t impossible. There are big problems in Scotland right now as we all know and you have to wonder if blaming London will work for ever.
It needs a strategy that repairs damage but also exploits new opportunities. These days there are no safe seats. The Tory underbelly is soft. The right leader could have a lot of fun there.
Interesting case of the candidate who wanted nuisance tenants to live in tents and pick potatoes. I’ll take you down a street with mixed social housing for a canvass and put that suggestion to the residents. It won’t be short of support.
Much of the other stuff on that link can be filed under “these things are often quite true, but we would rather they weren’t and shouldn’t speak of it”.
Murdo is a pure gift. Rarely have the Unionists been so generous.
https://www.politico.com/news/2019/12/13/uk-election-democratic-primary-johnson-corbyn-warren-sanders-084962
The real story of 2019 is how Labour lost, not how the Tories won.
And the HYT takeout for US readers is to urge the Dems to avoid Sanders and Warren. Betting: I'm laying by Sanders green down to zero.
I once bumped into her at the Partick DSS. She’s seen real life. Unlike most Tory toe-rags.
In Blair's big win in 1997, it had a Labour majority of 20,000. In 2005 it was still 11,000.
It was my personal WTF???? moment of 2017 when the Tories took it. I know Mansfield. The idea it could go Tory was off-the-scale bonkers. Yet it went blue with a majority of a little over 1,000.
So what was the reaction to the town of having a Tory MP for a couple of years. Any degree of buyers remorse? Might the hope he embodied turn to ash?
Nope.
There was a further swing to the Conservatives. Of an astonishing 15.5%. He now has a majority of 16,300. That is Tory-shire safe.
If this response proves anything like the response in those seats the Tories took on Thursday, Labour is dead in the water for several more Parliaments.
1. Breaking into the existing oligopoly of parties is incredibly difficult. The Tiggers were annihilated and the Brexit Party did no better. Those that went out on their own are all now ex-MP. Parliament is the sort of closed shop that your most militant shop steward can only dream of.
2. The weakness and incompetence of Labour led to their increasing collapse in Scotland where there is the sort of centre left alternative that does not exist in England. There may be no way back there now.
3. The Lib Dems made several strategic mistakes but their biggest by far was not going for Labour's throat when they were so vulnerable. If they want to play a major role in our governance, as opposed to a minor role in our politics, they need to replace Labour in the same way as the SNP have. They will almost certainly never get a better chance.
The sad conclusion I have come to, which I think nearly all politicians will now share, is that breaking away from the existing structures is fatal. Far better to hang in there and seek to change the mood inside the party.
There is huge anger in Labour about what the Corbynists did to their party, the disgusting moral failings, the delusional economics and, most fundamentally, losing. Whether that anger can be marshaled into a regaining of the party by the moderates remains to be seen but even if they fail the institutional strength of the oligopoly protects Labour from too much harm.
Now the Tories have to deliver on issues such as transport and housing in the North.
“Scottish Labour voters prefer proper Coke to Diet Coke”.
SLab can’t sell Indy Lite any more. There are clear sign that the coin has dropped. SLab are moving slowly but surely towards abandoning full-blooded Unionism.
“Next big minority rights” issue, while there are many feminists horrified at the concept of self identification. The whole nonsense of transgenderism has, due to a weakness to resist, a real thing in schools amongst youngsters.
It’s an issue that has been creeping up and until very recently been pushed very strongly under the radar without any push back.
Of course, the situation in Scotland is far better than the one in Wales and Labour keep clinging on like limpets who have had superglue added. But getting a majority in 2021 even with Green support doesn’t look like a gimme from here.
It's logically inconsistent to state that a Lib Dem majority in Westminster could revoke Article 50 without a referendum but that an SNP majority in Holyrood could not have a referendum. Not only that, it implies an SNP majority in Holyrood might have a mandate for unilateral independence without a referendum.
And it was tactically stupid because it put off a lot of soft Leavers and Remainers, whilst at the same time being much much harder to achieve than a (second) referendum win for Remain.
As I said at the time, it was a very stupid and entirely needless mistake. Sadly, she got high on her own supply. A shame, as she seems like a decent person.
https://twitter.com/BrexitStewart/status/1205773239731073024?s=20
That should be a lesson for these new MPs. Most of these areas have been appallingly neglected by all governments. THis has encouraged a pre-existing parochialism that leads them to view London with suspicion. If they see their MPs fighting for local interests, I have little doubt they will back them again. If not...
The 12th safest Tory seat is Brigg and Goole.
Relatively obvious, perhaps, but bet accordingly.
Fuck me, the man’s an idiot. ‘I think our policies were very popular.’
Surely Boris Johnson could not be so lucky as to have the one man in Parliament who is both madder and less articulate than him as LotO?
Edit - in fairness though, unlike Johnson he did have the balls to speak to Neil.
https://twitter.com/AbiWilks/status/1205640015977549826?s=19
https://twitter.com/Dannythefink/status/1205466063879770113
Get rid of them if they won’t play along. It’s not as if they were integral to Boris’s victory or played a big part in it. And there are plenty of new MPs around. Some Northern voices in government would help.
In many ways Boris’s strategy is very similar to the one May set out in her speech on becoming PM. If he learns from her mistakes he could achieve a great deal. It will be interesting to see what he does. I hope for the sake of those who have put their trust in him that all this new found enthusiasm for the North and the left behind lasts longer than one good speech.
How 'safe' is this Tory majority. How much swing crumbles it?
But their biggest asset was Corbyn. By a mile.
‘He’s more effective than a racist supporter of terrorism’ is damning with the faintest of faint praise...
My own seat has gone straight to safe seat for the Tories though lol
Maybe DEFRA would be good.
But yes, it shows him as a coward. Just as cancelling the rally in Brecon did in the summer.
Johnson turned out to be similar as a campaigner to May. But fortunately for him his advisers avoided the hubristic policy offering that was May’s mistake.
That said, I don't think governments worry too much about this sort of thing.
A new practical relationship with the EU will be forged and we will move on.
All hail Saint Nicola.
MPs can vote no confidence in Corbyn. And should if he doesn't step down immediately. Rid themselves of the socialist at the top and they can start to rebuild.
Mr. glw, to be fair, at least Wolf's consistent. Demonstrably wrong about the past, demonstrably wrong about the present.
That is a staggering thought.
Not rushing the withdrawal bill through just to do it this year
Allow scrutiny and amendments aimed at improving aspects of the bill
Willingness to accept the need for a transition period extension if it isn’t resolved by 30/6 and honesty about progress so it is obvious he isn’t try to back door WTO brexit.
His first budget who wins and who loses.
After that we can start to judge him, is he capable of thoughtful, intelligent government or will he continue to grandstand unnecessary deadlines and positions just to prove he has steel balls.
Ditch Corbyn (happening).
Brexit (hard to know whether to campaign to rejoin or just mitigate the damage)
Economic policies (not a major factor in defeat, probably important to narrow the offer and focus attention on priorities as cyclefree suggested in her excellent previous header).