Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Punters on CON & the LDs are more bullish than the MRP project

1235711

Comments

  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,253

    Corbyn cancels going to Ashfield, not welcome in the Red Wall seats.

    Or it’s in the bag...
    Ashfield is a very odd one. YouGov has it as Likely Conservative with Labour second, nine points behind, and the various odds and sods including the Ashfield Independents far behind at 10% or less. But the betting markets have the Ashfield Indies as second favourite, and at one point had them on just 2/1 (now mostly drifted out to 3/1).

    I must say I'm with YouGov on this, I don't see the Ashfield Indies, who compete for the Leave vote with the Tories and with the BXP, getting very far here. I hope I'm right, because I sold them at 13 on the SPIN 25-10-0 market and so will do very nicely if they end up third or worse (and still make a profit if they end up second).
    I'll offer you £20 vs £20 on charity donations for Ashfield Indy vs Tories in Ashfield. My £20 says the Indys will take it. Void if BXP or LAB win.
  • eek said:

    Interesting Twitter thread here: Could YouGov be underestimating LAB because they’re using outdated turnout weightings?

    https://twitter.com/centrist_phone/status/1204763123535765505

    He’s our favourite straw clutcher. Although he did call 2017 right from polls that were out at the time
    He's a straw clutcher yet called 2017 right?
    When we want to believe Labour are winning he comes in handy
  • JasonJason Posts: 1,614
    camel said:

    Jason said:

    camel said:

    Jason said:

    Guys non political question here. I'm looking for a new motor, I've got around an 18k budget. I want something that goes at a decent clip that's not too thirsty!

    Any suggestions??

    Non political answer. I suggest a blue car. I can't see you in red, orange, yellow or green one.
    Too true. I do like Ford chrome blue and VW reef blue as it happens. I also like crimson and ruby red, though. Hhhhmm. I might go for a Fiesta ST. Something to cheer me up if it all goes tits up and Corbyn wrecks my pension pot and share holdings.
    Forget the ford. Buy this. You will not regret it.

    https://approvedusedminis.co.uk/vehicle/201810021079207?quoteref=c835c5cd-d00f-485d-9612-f31f30a5a3ae
    Well it certainly shifts, but it's not my cup of tea. Not keen on Minis tbh. VW or Ford mainly. I was looking at a Polo GTi, but the missus doesn't like the auto gearbox.

    *She prefers a manual ride* :blush:
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    eek said:

    Interesting Twitter thread here: Could YouGov be underestimating LAB because they’re using outdated turnout weightings?

    https://twitter.com/centrist_phone/status/1204763123535765505

    He’s our favourite straw clutcher. Although he did call 2017 right from polls that were out at the time
    He's a straw clutcher yet called 2017 right?
    I think he makes a fair point. Those YG turnout weightings do look look low for young people
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,212

    Shy Labour effect is real. Who wants to admit to voting Labour?

    Have you been on social media recently ?
  • Pulpstar said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I still don't know who to vote for. Maybe I should read the manifestos properly, which I haven't yet.

    Boils down to - Do you want Johnson's lies or Corbyn's truths ?
    Corbyn's truths? FFS are you having a laugh. If he believes the lies he is peddling he is even thicker than I thought! They are the two most unsuitable candidates as PM that I can recall in my lifetime. Miliband, Howard, Kinnoch, were dire, but even they were better than these two. Only Michael Foot runs them close. Corbyn and Johnson represent the dregs that now make up the majority of the membership of the two main parties.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,405
    camel said:

    Jason said:

    camel said:

    Jason said:

    Guys non political question here. I'm looking for a new motor, I've got around an 18k budget. I want something that goes at a decent clip that's not too thirsty!

    Any suggestions??

    Non political answer. I suggest a blue car. I can't see you in red, orange, yellow or green one.
    Too true. I do like Ford chrome blue and VW reef blue as it happens. I also like crimson and ruby red, though. Hhhhmm. I might go for a Fiesta ST. Something to cheer me up if it all goes tits up and Corbyn wrecks my pension pot and share holdings.
    Forget the ford. Buy this. You will not regret it.

    https://approvedusedminis.co.uk/vehicle/201810021079207?quoteref=c835c5cd-d00f-485d-9612-f31f30a5a3ae
    At least get one with a Chili pack. I spent 6 months last year finding a JCW with all the toys - I find adaptive cruise control essential on a motorway.
  • MattW said:

    I'll offer you £20 vs £20 on charity donations for Ashfield Indy vs Tories in Ashfield. My £20 says the Indys will take it. Void if BXP or LAB win.

    Since it's for charity, yes, fine. We're on, if you're happy to go ahead.
  • It has been nice to read such nice messages today from so many. It is such a contrast to a few days ago so thank you all for your kindness and understanding.

    I will continue posting, whether I am right or not. All the best to you all.

    CHB - I've maybe missed the nastiness a few days ago. This site can get impolite very quickly. My rule of thumb on t'internet is to use my real name and to say nothing to someone from behind the keyboard that I wouldn't say in public to their face.

    I would that others did likewise.

    Please keep posting. I think you're frequently wrong - but that doesn't make you wrong!
  • MattW said:

    Off topic: Walked into the spare bedroom to find one of the neighbours' cats curled up on the bed.

    Please respond with suitable pussy jokes...

    Shave it, before repatriation.
    Surely repatriation would require a landing strip?
  • "I will 10/10 definitely vote"

    Conservatives 89%
    Labour 75%

    Remainers 83%
    Leavers 78%

    Survation 5-7 Dec
    #GE2019 #Brexit

    Sorry for my ignorance on this, but does this mean that they reduced the labour voting in weighting thus meaning the Labour vote could actually be higher. Or have they kept it the same and the labour vote in likely to be lower than the poll?
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,605
    Pulpstar said:

    Qriously final poll, 5-8 Dec, gives Tories 13-point lead
    Con 43%
    Lab 30%
    Lib Dem 12%
    Green 4%
    Brexit 3%
    Qriously is a British Polling Council member, surveyed 2,222 adults via tablet & smartphone https://t.co/ruLDOgVhr2

    That's the lot that gave labour a 2 point lead in 2017 but its before photogate etc

    It's not bad but

    Knock 2% off the greens and add to Labour.

    They are the first voters that go "tactically" toward Labour.
    I assume that 60% of Greens vote tactically for Labour so that's 2.4%.
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    eek said:

    Interesting Twitter thread here: Could YouGov be underestimating LAB because they’re using outdated turnout weightings?

    https://twitter.com/centrist_phone/status/1204763123535765505

    He’s our favourite straw clutcher. Although he did call 2017 right from polls that were out at the time
    He's a straw clutcher yet called 2017 right?
    I can’t see any evidence he called 2017 right? He doesn’t seem to understand a lot of the polling basics. Problem is he’s looking for stuff to back up his pre existing opinions, hence I’ll trust the polling firms myself.
  • MattW said:

    Jason said:

    Guys non political question here. I'm looking for a new motor, I've got around an 18k budget. I want something that goes at a decent clip that's not too thirsty!

    Any suggestions??

    If it doesn’t need to be brand new I’ll sell you an eleven year old A4 for that. Only slightly dented and I’m sure the air con can be fixed...
    Look for something which benefits from the 2017 taxation changes - should get something that will be £20 or £30 a year?
    Was worth a try. Your budget is about ten times what it is worth.

    The only real advice I can give is don’t buy a diesel.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,405
    eek said:

    camel said:

    Jason said:

    camel said:

    Jason said:

    Guys non political question here. I'm looking for a new motor, I've got around an 18k budget. I want something that goes at a decent clip that's not too thirsty!

    Any suggestions??

    Non political answer. I suggest a blue car. I can't see you in red, orange, yellow or green one.
    Too true. I do like Ford chrome blue and VW reef blue as it happens. I also like crimson and ruby red, though. Hhhhmm. I might go for a Fiesta ST. Something to cheer me up if it all goes tits up and Corbyn wrecks my pension pot and share holdings.
    Forget the ford. Buy this. You will not regret it.

    https://approvedusedminis.co.uk/vehicle/201810021079207?quoteref=c835c5cd-d00f-485d-9612-f31f30a5a3ae
    At least get one with a Chili pack. I spent 6 months last year finding a JCW with all the toys - I find adaptive cruise control essential on a motorway.
    Edit to add

    https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201908121068875?transmission=Automatic&model=HATCH&body-type=Hatchback&radius=1500&postcode=dl30ty&quantity-of-doors=3&advertising-location=at_cars&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly New&onesearchad=New&aggregatedTrim=John Cooper Works&make=MINI&maximum-badge-engine-size=2.0&sort=price-asc&year-from=2015&minimum-badge-engine-size=2.0&fuel-type=Petrol&page=2
  • Pulpstar said:

    Shy Labour effect is real. Who wants to admit to voting Labour?

    Have you been on social media recently ?
    That’s the same for Johnson supporters.

    It’s the people like I said in Peterborough who voted 2017 Labour but are undecided now. Watch the Huffington video. I wouldn’t be surprised if there were a lot of shy Labour voters amongst women especially.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    I'm sure there are 'shy' votes in all quarters.

    For ex
    Pulpstar said:

    Shy Labour effect is real. Who wants to admit to voting Labour?

    Have you been on social media recently ?
    The pressure on the 18/24s to disavow the tories must be enormous (especially students).
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,212

    Pulpstar said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I still don't know who to vote for. Maybe I should read the manifestos properly, which I haven't yet.

    Boils down to - Do you want Johnson's lies or Corbyn's truths ?
    Corbyn's truths? FFS are you having a laugh. If he believes the lies he is peddling he is even thicker than I thought! They are the two most unsuitable candidates as PM that I can recall in my lifetime. Miliband, Howard, Kinnoch, were dire, but even they were better than these two. Only Michael Foot runs them close. Corbyn and Johnson represent the dregs that now make up the majority of the membership of the two main parties.
    Of course he believes in everything he says, the man is an ideologue ! Johnson just wants to be a hero to the leavers and keep the economy running OK so he can retain a majority, look at the manifestoes :o
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312

    Schards said:

    IanB2 said:

    The MRP has previously understated the Tories. Maybe there is still a ‘shy’ factor even online, or perhaps there tends to be a small swingback to governments on the final couple of days? And the self-admitted weakspots of the model suggest a risk of understating localised campaigns by the smaller parties, which will tend to downplay the LibDems.

    Therefore the position being taken by punters does appear logical.

    Rather than shy tories, isn't shy leavers a more likely scenario? This was certainly the case in 2016 when leave were circa 10/1 at the close of the polls. It wasn't tested in 2017 as all parties claimed they would honour the result of the referendum.

    That is clearly not the case now so, if shy leavers are still a thing, that would suggest the polls are understating the tories as the only party that will deliver any meaningful form of Brexit
    What about shy Labour because of a toxic Corbyn? Not sure if that's a thing, all my lefty friends are still out and proud....
    Nah - when one is convinced of one's absolute moral superiority, what is there to be shy about?
    Proud people have a bearing, they're not screamy, shouty. But, hey, neither of us are Corbynistas so what do we know?
  • Brom said:

    eek said:

    Interesting Twitter thread here: Could YouGov be underestimating LAB because they’re using outdated turnout weightings?

    https://twitter.com/centrist_phone/status/1204763123535765505

    He’s our favourite straw clutcher. Although he did call 2017 right from polls that were out at the time
    He's a straw clutcher yet called 2017 right?
    I can’t see any evidence he called 2017 right? He doesn’t seem to understand a lot of the polling basics. Problem is he’s looking for stuff to back up his pre existing opinions, hence I’ll trust the polling firms myself.
    I asked him. He posted on a well known polling report site in 2017 and was laughed at. You can find the posts if you look hard enough.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,253

    MattW said:

    I'll offer you £20 vs £20 on charity donations for Ashfield Indy vs Tories in Ashfield. My £20 says the Indys will take it. Void if BXP or LAB win.

    Since it's for charity, yes, fine. We're on, if you're happy to go ahead.
    Yep. Done.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    My prediction (before today's polling deluge).

    The gap will be 10 points. This will mean the Cons will take a shed load more seats than the YouGov MRP says. People will then trash the MRP.

    They will totally ignore that the Con majority of 50 seats is based on a series of razor thin majorities as Con leads in seats they hold is cut and they only take seats 30-50 off of labour on tiny majorities.
  • I suspect that voters would be more alarmed if they knew their medical records had been sold.
  • swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,464

    Pulpstar said:

    Shy Labour effect is real. Who wants to admit to voting Labour?

    Have you been on social media recently ?
    That’s the same for Johnson supporters.

    It’s the people like I said in Peterborough who voted 2017 Labour but are undecided now. Watch the Huffington video. I wouldn’t be surprised if there were a lot of shy Labour voters amongst women especially.
    I agree, the shy voters are key targets, even the BJ love actually PPB hints that the doorstepped woman is an undecided shy voter (BJ avoids engaging with hee husband, although that may be a habit of his)
  • eekeek Posts: 28,405
    Brom said:

    eek said:

    Interesting Twitter thread here: Could YouGov be underestimating LAB because they’re using outdated turnout weightings?

    https://twitter.com/centrist_phone/status/1204763123535765505

    He’s our favourite straw clutcher. Although he did call 2017 right from polls that were out at the time
    He's a straw clutcher yet called 2017 right?
    I can’t see any evidence he called 2017 right? He doesn’t seem to understand a lot of the polling basics. Problem is he’s looking for stuff to back up his pre existing opinions, hence I’ll trust the polling firms myself.
    But so do the polling firms with their assumptions / weightings. The only thing he is doing here is questioning their assumptions.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    Jesus. My colleague has just written Christmas as 'exmas' and I'm torn between laughing at him and throwing a stapler at his head. Thoughts?
  • Anorak said:

    Jesus. My colleague has just written Christmas as 'exmas' and I'm torn between laughing at him and throwing a stapler at his head. Thoughts?

    Made to eat Pineapple Pizza is a suitable punishment.
  • It has been nice to read such nice messages today from so many. It is such a contrast to a few days ago so thank you all for your kindness and understanding.

    I will continue posting, whether I am right or not. All the best to you all.

    CHB - I've maybe missed the nastiness a few days ago. This site can get impolite very quickly. My rule of thumb on t'internet is to use my real name and to say nothing to someone from behind the keyboard that I wouldn't say in public to their face.

    I would that others did likewise.

    Please keep posting. I think you're frequently wrong - but that doesn't make you wrong!
    I don’t use my real name because I don’t want a parent or pupil googling me and then quoting something back at me. I try to make sure that I don’t say anything intemperate but I have lost my temper on here a couple of times.

    That said, if anyone reading this also knows me in real life then they can probably work who I am. I certainly work on that assumption.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312

    Pulpstar said:

    Shy Labour effect is real. Who wants to admit to voting Labour?

    Have you been on social media recently ?
    That’s the same for Johnson supporters.

    It’s the people like I said in Peterborough who voted 2017 Labour but are undecided now. Watch the Huffington video. I wouldn’t be surprised if there were a lot of shy Labour voters amongst women especially.
    Why women especially?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,381
    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    A poll with fieldwork dates 5 to 8 December is a waste of space .

    We need polling from this week not stretching back to last Thursday .

    Weird that they took so long to realise this one.
    I’m not trashing it because it shows a big Tory lead . I’m happy to accept the Opinium which was done Tuesday and Wednesday of this week but seriously a lot has happened over the last few days.
    A lot of people thought that Gordon Brown's disaster with "that bigoted woman" would make a big difference to the polling in 2010. It didn't. Most things don't (the dementia tax was an unusual example of one that did).
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,507
    Anorak said:

    Jesus. My colleague has just written Christmas as 'exmas' and I'm torn between laughing at him and throwing a stapler at his head. Thoughts?

    you shouldn't throw things at jesus.
  • JasonJason Posts: 1,614
    Anorak said:

    Jesus. My colleague has just written Christmas as 'exmas' and I'm torn between laughing at him and throwing a stapler at his head. Thoughts?

    Is he a Labour voter?
  • Remember a while back the Maltese journalist getting blown up...

    Casino owner and business tycoon Yorgen Fenech has been arrested as part of the investigation into the death of Daphne Caruana Galizia, a Maltese investigative journalist killed by a car bomb in 2017.

    As Malta Today reports, Fenech was arrested by the Armed Forces of Malta at 5:30 a.m. on November 20 while trying to flee the country on his luxury yacht.

    Local authorities believe the 38-year-old millionaire acted as a middleman and facilitated the payment of €450,000 to the three individuals who carried out the execution.

    https://www.pokernews.com/news/2019/12/yorgen-fenech-arrested-36156.htm
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,898
    Afternoon again all :)

    Glancing at the MRP numbers for some of the less definite seats in my innediate vicinity and Dagenham & Rainham will be a nailbiter. 42-41 to CON on the MRP and I suspect both parties will be putting plenty of effort into polling day.

    Ilford North shows a solid 12 point Labour lead 50-38 so that seems unlikely for the Conservatives. Chingford & Woodford Green is 47-45 to CON so that's another interesting one.

    Some sobering LD numbers - 30% or above in 61 seats. 10% or below in 391 seats. As for the Conservatives, 50% or more in 253 seats, 10% or below in just one (Hackney South & Shoreditch).
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312

    I suspect that voters would be more alarmed if they knew their medical records had been sold.
    This can't be true. The NHS can never find anyone's medical records.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,212
    edited December 2019
    Alistair said:

    My prediction (before today's polling deluge).

    The gap will be 10 points. This will mean the Cons will take a shed load more seats than the YouGov MRP says. People will then trash the MRP.

    They will totally ignore that the Con majority of 50 seats is based on a series of razor thin majorities as Con leads in seats they hold is cut and they only take seats 30-50 off of labour on tiny majorities.

    What's happening in Scotland tho lol
    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    I'll offer you £20 vs £20 on charity donations for Ashfield Indy vs Tories in Ashfield. My £20 says the Indys will take it. Void if BXP or LAB win.

    Since it's for charity, yes, fine. We're on, if you're happy to go ahead.
    Yep. Done.
    Ashfield is your constituency iirc ?
  • Mr. Battery, friend of mine is voting Labour. Worried about the NHS.

    We had a very civil discussion on politics. The conclusion was both sides are complete idiots, it's just a question of who's worse. [She's in a safe Labour seat, so it probably won't affect much].
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760

    Brom said:

    eek said:

    Interesting Twitter thread here: Could YouGov be underestimating LAB because they’re using outdated turnout weightings?

    https://twitter.com/centrist_phone/status/1204763123535765505

    He’s our favourite straw clutcher. Although he did call 2017 right from polls that were out at the time
    He's a straw clutcher yet called 2017 right?
    I can’t see any evidence he called 2017 right? He doesn’t seem to understand a lot of the polling basics. Problem is he’s looking for stuff to back up his pre existing opinions, hence I’ll trust the polling firms myself.
    I asked him. He posted on a well known polling report site in 2017 and was laughed at. You can find the posts if you look hard enough.
    What about 2015 and the EU ref? Sceptical to believe any random twitter account.

    Yougov age weighting’s look OK to me. For every 4 18-25s voting there are 5 55-60s voting.

    In 2017 the respective groups were 55% and 70% turnout, so allowing for the extra amount of 18-25s that seems about right. I do expect youth turnout to be down this year in line with Labour’s drop in the polls.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    Anorak said:

    Jesus. My colleague has just written Christmas as 'exmas' and I'm torn between laughing at him and throwing a stapler at his head. Thoughts?

    Stapler
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,386

    Mr. Battery, friend of mine is voting Labour. Worried about the NHS.

    We had a very civil discussion on politics. The conclusion was both sides are complete idiots, it's just a question of who's worse. [She's in a safe Labour seat, so it probably won't affect much].

    There is no such thing as a safe Labour seat anymore Mr D.
  • Shy Labour effect is real. Who wants to admit to voting Labour?

    It’s what that Peterborough focus group found. Despised Corbyn but voting Labour anyway because of policies. I bet they say undecided to their friends

    I suspect there’s shyness for both parties. I wouldn’t really want to openly and proudly declare voting for either to be honest.
  • Gabs3Gabs3 Posts: 836

    Anorak said:

    Jesus. My colleague has just written Christmas as 'exmas' and I'm torn between laughing at him and throwing a stapler at his head. Thoughts?

    Stapler
    Go full Gordon Brown and use a printer.
  • She forgot to mention £2 billion of the NHS budget each year goes to pay for Labour's PFI's .
  • For people getting over excited about postal ballots:

    https://twitter.com/nickjbarlow/status/1204763800056074240?s=20
  • Pulpstar said:

    Shy Labour effect is real. Who wants to admit to voting Labour?

    Have you been on social media recently ?
    That’s the same for Johnson supporters.

    It’s the people like I said in Peterborough who voted 2017 Labour but are undecided now. Watch the Huffington video. I wouldn’t be surprised if there were a lot of shy Labour voters amongst women especially.
    Why women especially?
    Because they are overwhelmingly the most likely to distrust Johnson. I’m sure somebody can find the polling numbers which show Labour/Tories split 50/50 men to women.

    Aren’t there more women amongst the population?

    You can see it in the younger age groups too, women are overwhelmingly Labour.

    Imagine a family situation in a Leave seat. You would be embarrassed to admit you’re voting Corbyn Labour.
  • Gabs3Gabs3 Posts: 836
    rkrkrk said:
    Aren't GPs technically independent?

    I don't even see the problem with private provision. France does fine with it. The problem isn't who provides the care it's that the NHS is underfunded.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    Gabs3 said:

    Anorak said:

    Jesus. My colleague has just written Christmas as 'exmas' and I'm torn between laughing at him and throwing a stapler at his head. Thoughts?

    Stapler
    Go full Gordon Brown and use a printer.
    Man or machine?
  • For people getting over excited about postal ballots:

    https://twitter.com/nickjbarlow/status/1204763800056074240?s=20

    She forgot to mention £2 billion of the NHS budget each year goes to pay for Labour's PFI's .
    https://twitter.com/leonardocarella/status/1204779058955014144?s=20
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    Pulpstar said:

    Shy Labour effect is real. Who wants to admit to voting Labour?

    Have you been on social media recently ?
    That’s the same for Johnson supporters.

    It’s the people like I said in Peterborough who voted 2017 Labour but are undecided now. Watch the Huffington video. I wouldn’t be surprised if there were a lot of shy Labour voters amongst women especially.
    Why women especially?
    Because they are overwhelmingly the most likely to distrust Johnson. I’m sure somebody can find the polling numbers which show Labour/Tories split 50/50 men to women.

    Aren’t there more women amongst the population?

    You can see it in the younger age groups too, women are overwhelmingly Labour.

    Imagine a family situation in a Leave seat. You would be embarrassed to admit you’re voting Corbyn Labour.
    But why would that effect manifest itself when you are clicking a button on a website?
  • stodge said:



    Some sobering LD numbers - 30% or above in 61 seats. 10% or below in 391 seats. As for the Conservatives, 50% or more in 253 seats, 10% or below in just one (Hackney South & Shoreditch).

    That's not too bad. In 2017 the Lib Dems only got 30% or more in 28 seats and were under 10% in 536 seats so there's clear progress being made.

  • How on earth is it that the odds on the LibDems in Richmond Park are still 1.25? I'd have thought 1.05 or even shorter would be more like it.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,602

    How on earth is it that the odds on the LibDems in Richmond Park are still 1.25? I'd have thought 1.05 or even shorter would be more like it.

    Maybe because last time 100% of people thought the LDs would win it and they didn't. Fighting the last war.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312

    Pulpstar said:

    Shy Labour effect is real. Who wants to admit to voting Labour?

    Have you been on social media recently ?
    That’s the same for Johnson supporters.

    It’s the people like I said in Peterborough who voted 2017 Labour but are undecided now. Watch the Huffington video. I wouldn’t be surprised if there were a lot of shy Labour voters amongst women especially.
    Why women especially?
    Because they are overwhelmingly the most likely to distrust Johnson. I’m sure somebody can find the polling numbers which show Labour/Tories split 50/50 men to women.

    Aren’t there more women amongst the population?

    You can see it in the younger age groups too, women are overwhelmingly Labour.

    Imagine a family situation in a Leave seat. You would be embarrassed to admit you’re voting Corbyn Labour.
    I thought you were going to tell me that they're less forward than men. Notmy experience.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,231

    How on earth is it that the odds on the LibDems in Richmond Park are still 1.25? I'd have thought 1.05 or even shorter would be more like it.

    Agreed, it's probably a safer seat for the LDs in 2019 than (say) Carshalton or even Kingston.
  • HenriettaHenrietta Posts: 136
    edited December 2019
    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    My betting view from the start has been for big Con majority. I'm sticking with that but in truth it would be best described now as pure impressionistic hunch. I await the exit poll tomorrow with genuine uncertainty and hence excitement. For my wallet, c'mon you Tories. For the country, c'mon you Hung Parliament!

    I can`t ever remember an election when folk actually wanted a hung parliament.

    It would put us back in the position we were in before the election was called, but with one crucial difference: no Bercow. This means that exiting with no WA on 31/1 would be very likely - or , to put it another way, how could a no WA exit on 31/1 be averted?
    Good question. If the following conditions all held

    * the government wanted a crashout on 31 Jan
    * a majority of MPs wanted to stop that
    * the Speaker refused to allow the parliamentary means needed by said majority to take command of the order paper
    * it was clear that an effort to replace said Speaker would be unsuccessful

    then there would remain the option of a VONC in the government under the FTPA
    ...and if the prime minister refused to resign, attempting to force a GE which would be too late, then
    ...it gets interesting
    ...and I wouldn't fancy the monarchy's chances...
  • Andy_JS said:

    How on earth is it that the odds on the LibDems in Richmond Park are still 1.25? I'd have thought 1.05 or even shorter would be more like it.

    Maybe because last time 100% of people thought the LDs would win it and they didn't. Fighting the last war.
    Good theory.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    edited December 2019
    snip
  • ArtistArtist Posts: 1,893
  • Anorak said:

    Jesus. My colleague has just written Christmas as 'exmas' and I'm torn between laughing at him and throwing a stapler at his head. Thoughts?

    Staple something to his head.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    RobD said:

    snip

    Not even if you say it over and over again?
  • eekeek Posts: 28,405

    Shy Labour effect is real. Who wants to admit to voting Labour?

    It’s what that Peterborough focus group found. Despised Corbyn but voting Labour anyway because of policies. I bet they say undecided to their friends

    I suspect there’s shyness for both parties. I wouldn’t really want to openly and proudly declare voting for either to be honest.
    And those undecideds are not appearing in any poll at the moment. The question is will they actually get out and vote.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Shy Labour effect is real. Who wants to admit to voting Labour?

    Have you been on social media recently ?
    That’s the same for Johnson supporters.

    It’s the people like I said in Peterborough who voted 2017 Labour but are undecided now. Watch the Huffington video. I wouldn’t be surprised if there were a lot of shy Labour voters amongst women especially.
    Why women especially?
    Because they are overwhelmingly the most likely to distrust Johnson. I’m sure somebody can find the polling numbers which show Labour/Tories split 50/50 men to women.

    Aren’t there more women amongst the population?

    You can see it in the younger age groups too, women are overwhelmingly Labour.

    Imagine a family situation in a Leave seat. You would be embarrassed to admit you’re voting Corbyn Labour.
    I thought you were going to tell me that they're less forward than men. Notmy experience.
    I think they’re a lot more pro Corbyn than men are. But they won’t decide until polling day. That’s basically what the Huffington video showed.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,602
    I must confess I'm feeling a bit sorry for Jo Swinson. As I said before, her advisors must be really bad. It was obvious about 48 hours into the campaign that she wasn't coming across well, but they must have told her everything was fine and to carry on as before. About 3 weeks later they realised it wasn't working out as they'd hoped.
  • DavidL said:

    So, my final guess

    Tory 352
    Labour 217
    SNP 41
    Lib Dem 16
    Green 1
    PC 4
    Irish 18
    Speaker 1

    Oh how they laughed.

    Well I would take 10 off the LDs and a couple of the SNP, give 3 to Labour and the rest to the Tories. So, Tory 361, Labour 220.
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,660
    He's always a little fringe however I think C. Murray has produced a interesting article on the constant Conservative vote share %.

    There is a reporting discrepancy between the presentation of labour-leave to con/bxp and the con-urbane to lib/lab tactical voting. I think J. Harris picked up on this in one of the last 'Anywhere but Westminster'.

    https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2019/12/the-largest-vote-swings-in-british-general-election-history-censored-out-by-the-bbc-and-mainstream-media/
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    @FrancisUrquhart - you should remove the ambiguity in your two excellent swing plots. T/L -> T/Lab, T/LD.
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,291
    Apologies if already cited on here but latest MORI leader ratings show 8% improvement for Corbyn (-30), no change for Johnson (-14) and -1 for Swinson (-31).
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,038
    eek said:

    Shy Labour effect is real. Who wants to admit to voting Labour?

    It’s what that Peterborough focus group found. Despised Corbyn but voting Labour anyway because of policies. I bet they say undecided to their friends

    I suspect there’s shyness for both parties. I wouldn’t really want to openly and proudly declare voting for either to be honest.
    And those undecideds are not appearing in any poll at the moment. The question is will they actually get out and vote.
    "30% Don't Know" = "30% Don't Vote"
  • I suspect that voters would be more alarmed if they knew their medical records had been sold.
    This can't be true. The NHS can never find anyone's medical records.
    Depends why. If anonymised and used for medical research then go for it. If the want to sell us stuff not so much.
  • Brom said:

    Interesting Twitter thread here: Could YouGov be underestimating LAB because they’re using outdated turnout weightings?

    https://twitter.com/centrist_phone/status/1204763123535765505

    Someone needs to shutdown Dr Moderate’s account. He’s giving us amateur psephologists a bad name and I’ve seen people clutching at straws quoting him on other parts of the internet!
    If the figures on the left are accurate estimates of turnout in 2017 then the assumptions on the right look quite aggressive, especially as they are meant to based on historical patterns rather than being self-reported. I am quite prepared to believe that YouGov have good reasons for their turnout assumptions, I am not a member of the tin foil hat YouGov-are-all-Tory-stooges fraternity, but I would like to see the rationale. When voters are so polarised by age polling becomes mostly an exercise in accurately weighting the electorate's demographics, so this stuff really matters.
  • RobD said:

    @FrancisUrquhart - you should remove the ambiguity in your two excellent swing plots. T/L -> T/Lab, T/LD.

    Done. Thanks.
  • Andy_JS said:

    I must confess I'm feeling a bit sorry for Jo Swinson. As I said before, her advisors must be really bad. It was obvious about 48 hours into the campaign that she wasn't coming across well, but they must have told her everything was fine and to carry on as before. About 3 weeks later they realised it wasn't working out as they'd hoped.

    It is odd. Admittedly the transition from a relatively minor figure without much front-line experience to becoming party leader, especially at such a crucial time, wouldn't be easy for anyone, but the LibDems have got plenty of people with a lot of experience, and you'd have thought they'd have been able to steer her away from some of the rookie errors she's made.

    Perhaps they tried but she didn't listen?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,381

    Pulpstar said:

    Shy Labour effect is real. Who wants to admit to voting Labour?

    Have you been on social media recently ?
    That’s the same for Johnson supporters.

    It’s the people like I said in Peterborough who voted 2017 Labour but are undecided now. Watch the Huffington video. I wouldn’t be surprised if there were a lot of shy Labour voters amongst women especially.
    Why women especially?
    Because they are overwhelmingly the most likely to distrust Johnson. I’m sure somebody can find the polling numbers which show Labour/Tories split 50/50 men to women.

    Aren’t there more women amongst the population?

    You can see it in the younger age groups too, women are overwhelmingly Labour.

    Imagine a family situation in a Leave seat. You would be embarrassed to admit you’re voting Corbyn Labour.
    Sure, but there will be people who are in places or workplaces where they would not wish to admit to voting Conservative. I doubt if it affects one party more than the other.
  • Nice to see the Time Person Of The Year go to an exceptionally deserving winner.
  • Problem is that judging turnout based on self reported likelihood to vote is surely always going to show error because we don’t actually know until polling day.
  • Jamei said:

    Jeremey Vine doing his best to confuse people with his uniform swing target seat dance between wall and floor projections on the BBC News channel now. I'm going to be going with Sky tomorrow night I think.

    Sky is going to be a leftie lovefest tomorrow night, I am going to have a look at the LBC offering, it may well be more balanced.
    Indeed - if Sky's GE coverage is anything like its nightly Press Review, then we can look forward to wall to wall Corbynite wimmin.
  • JohnO said:

    Apologies if already cited on here but latest MORI leader ratings show 8% improvement for Corbyn (-30), no change for Johnson (-14) and -1 for Swinson (-31).

    Somebody ran the differential and worked out a HP is predicted on their numbers
  • Nice to see the Time Person Of The Year go to an exceptionally deserving winner.

    Baby Yoda?
  • camelcamel Posts: 815
    Andy_JS said:

    I must confess I'm feeling a bit sorry for Jo Swinson. As I said before, her advisors must be really bad. It was obvious about 48 hours into the campaign that she wasn't coming across well, but they must have told her everything was fine and to carry on as before. About 3 weeks later they realised it wasn't working out as they'd hoped.

    I think she recognised the threat to her position posed by well-known, media savvy switchers Luciana and Chukka. Effectively she's run a terrible campaign to shore up her position as leader by stitching these two up.
    Won't save her from Layla though.

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,212

    He's always a little fringe however I think C. Murray has produced a interesting article on the constant Conservative vote share %.

    There is a reporting discrepancy between the presentation of labour-leave to con/bxp and the con-urbane to lib/lab tactical voting. I think J. Harris picked up on this in one of the last 'Anywhere but Westminster'.

    https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2019/12/the-largest-vote-swings-in-british-general-election-history-censored-out-by-the-bbc-and-mainstream-media/

    This redistribution of the Tory vote is advantageous to their chances, loads more labour leave marginals compared to Con remain previously safe where the LDs need a massive swing to win.
  • HenriettaHenrietta Posts: 136
    edited December 2019
    malcolmg said:

    Westminster is irrelevant as far as I am concerned, the Scottish MP's get ignored totally and the Tory/Labour ones don't even attend/speak other than to go cruising in the bars and restaurants.
    We could send all SNP MP's and they would still be ignored and derided. Unfortunately too many Scots are happy being doormats and having their lives decided by another country, massive lack of backbone.

    In this fanciful picture the ignoring of absent "cruisers" surely can't be faulted, so presumably the problem as you see it is that SNP MPs are ignored - the ones who won 37% of the vote in the 59 seats in which they stood. That's even though Ian Blackford gets called to speak all the time and in the last Parliament SNP MPs chaired a number of committees. How would things look at Westminster if to your satisfaction the SNP MPs were noticed rather than being ignored? Everybody would give them whatever they want - would that be the recognition they deserved? Of course if you decide at the outset that Westminster is irrelevant, the question itself is irrelevant and one has to ask why they bother to run for Parliament at all. They don't get discriminated against because they're Scottish - that's just a fantasy.

  • eekeek Posts: 28,405

    Nice to see the Time Person Of The Year go to an exceptionally deserving winner.

    Baby Yoda?
    Next year - this year it's Greta Thunberg

  • eek said:

    Nice to see the Time Person Of The Year go to an exceptionally deserving winner.

    Baby Yoda?
    Next year - this year it's Greta Thunberg

    Are you sure?

    https://twitter.com/BabyYodaBaby/status/1204768656330240000
  • JohnO said:

    Apologies if already cited on here but latest MORI leader ratings show 8% improvement for Corbyn (-30), no change for Johnson (-14) and -1 for Swinson (-31).

    Somebody ran the differential and worked out a HP is predicted on their numbers
    It is 1% different to the lead Cameron had over Miliband in 2015 when Dave won a majority.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    JohnO said:

    Apologies if already cited on here but latest MORI leader ratings show 8% improvement for Corbyn (-30), no change for Johnson (-14) and -1 for Swinson (-31).

    Somebody ran the differential and worked out a HP is predicted on their numbers
    It is 1% different to the lead Cameron had over Miliband in 2015 when Dave won a majority.
    1% different? HP nailed on.
  • Jamei said:

    Jeremey Vine doing his best to confuse people with his uniform swing target seat dance between wall and floor projections on the BBC News channel now. I'm going to be going with Sky tomorrow night I think.

    Sky is going to be a leftie lovefest tomorrow night, I am going to have a look at the LBC offering, it may well be more balanced.
    Indeed - if Sky's GE coverage is anything like its nightly Press Review, then we can look forward to wall to wall Corbynite wimmin.
    Sky's hired a former right-wing Tory MP called Bercow.
  • Disney Plus — with an assist from Baby Yoda — was the No. 1 top-trending Google search in the United States for 2019, according to the internet giant.

    Now that is what I call proper viral.
  • DavidL said:

    So, my final guess

    Tory 352
    Labour 217
    SNP 41
    Lib Dem 16
    Green 1
    PC 4
    Irish 18
    Speaker 1

    Oh how they laughed.

    Well I would take 10 off the LDs and a couple of the SNP, give 3 to Labour and the rest to the Tories. So, Tory 361, Labour 220.
    Only 6 seats for the LDs? It's not implausible as they only have 6 seats that are truly safe, but them losing literally every marginal seat still seems very unlikely.
  • JohnO said:

    Apologies if already cited on here but latest MORI leader ratings show 8% improvement for Corbyn (-30), no change for Johnson (-14) and -1 for Swinson (-31).

    Somebody ran the differential and worked out a HP is predicted on their numbers
    It is 1% different to the lead Cameron had over Miliband in 2015 when Dave won a majority.
    2015 might have been the exception I can’t remember. The user in question will need to comment as I’m sure I’ve misunderstood
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    rcs1000 said:

    Endillion said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Anecdotals:

    LOADS of Lib Dem posters in Eastbourne.
    Taxi driver voting Tory to Get Brexit Done.

    Natch ;-)

    Eastbourne is one where the Conservatives *should* win.

    The only reason to think it might be a LD hold is that the incumbent is practically an independent who spent most of the '17-'19 parliament stripped of the LD whip because he voted for Mrs May's deal.
    Strange. I would have guessed that he pissed off half his own voters by resigning the whip, then all the Tory voters by taking it back. Seems bonkers.
    He didn't resign the whip. He made it clear in his literature ahead of the 2017 General Election that he would respect the referendum result. When he voted for the deal, the LDs kicked him out. About three months ago, the LDs realised that without him as candidate, they didn't stand a chance of holding the seat, and so they let him back in.

    I think that - like North Norfolk - there's a lot of personal vote here. He won back the seat, after all, against the national swing, in a Leave vote seat in 2017. We shall see what happens this time around.
    He "resigned" the whip in the same way as Reagan's air traffic controllers "quit" their jobs.

    I do take your point, but I wouldn't have thought most of his LD-voting constituents much cared for the nuance.
  • RobD said:

    JohnO said:

    Apologies if already cited on here but latest MORI leader ratings show 8% improvement for Corbyn (-30), no change for Johnson (-14) and -1 for Swinson (-31).

    Somebody ran the differential and worked out a HP is predicted on their numbers
    It is 1% different to the lead Cameron had over Miliband in 2015 when Dave won a majority.
    1% different? HP nailed on.
    Doubt it. I think they'd still have a majority on a 6.5% lead, as Cameron did despite the SNP sweeping Scotland.
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,878
    Barnesian said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 45% (-1)
    LAB: 33% (+2)
    LDEM: 12% (-1)

    via @OpiniumResearch, 10 - 11 Dec
    Chgs. w/ 06 Dec

    See more:
    https://t.co/m1hoBpI81D

    Updated model gives the Tories 326 seats. LDs drop to 24.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yIHH_ZtcH9w9JF5e8WwYD6QuhOhlVwCO_GboafT6kfc/edit?usp=sharing



    I have also included the latest YouGov MRP projections for easy comparison.

    With one or two glaring exceptions, the two projections match up quite well, certainly within the margins of error.
    Scotland cross casts to 60.
    Not possible.

  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,602
    Today's most amusing video was Stephen Lloyd (LD, Eastbourne) telling a potential voter to f**k off.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    Nobidexx said:

    RobD said:

    JohnO said:

    Apologies if already cited on here but latest MORI leader ratings show 8% improvement for Corbyn (-30), no change for Johnson (-14) and -1 for Swinson (-31).

    Somebody ran the differential and worked out a HP is predicted on their numbers
    It is 1% different to the lead Cameron had over Miliband in 2015 when Dave won a majority.
    1% different? HP nailed on.
    Doubt it. I think they'd still have a majority on a 6.5% lead, as Cameron did despite the SNP sweeping Scotland.
    I may have been commenting sarcastically. :p
  • Anorak said:

    Jesus. My colleague has just written Christmas as 'exmas' and I'm torn between laughing at him and throwing a stapler at his head. Thoughts?

    Staple something to his head.
    Did he write "exmas" or Xmas? If it is the latter that is perfectly traditional and acceptable, as the X comes from the Greek Chi standing for Christos.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,123
    edited December 2019
    Andy_JS said:

    Today's most amusing video was Stephen Lloyd (LD, Eastbourne) telling a potential voter to f**k off.

    To be fair, I am sure all MPs have felt like that at some point and I don't blame them.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    Barnesian said:

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 45% (-1)
    LAB: 33% (+2)
    LDEM: 12% (-1)

    via @OpiniumResearch, 10 - 11 Dec
    Chgs. w/ 06 Dec

    See more:
    https://t.co/m1hoBpI81D

    Updated model gives the Tories 326 seats. LDs drop to 24.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yIHH_ZtcH9w9JF5e8WwYD6QuhOhlVwCO_GboafT6kfc/edit?usp=sharing



    I have also included the latest YouGov MRP projections for easy comparison.

    With one or two glaring exceptions, the two projections match up quite well, certainly within the margins of error.
    Scotland cross casts to 60.
    Not possible.

    I think Barnesian has explained this before as due to rounding.
This discussion has been closed.