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  • speedy2speedy2 Posts: 981
    IanB2 said:

    Nobidexx said:

    speedy2 said:

    So there is not much change, in line with the non movement in polls for the past 2 weeks.
    I have to say I'm haven't been quite convinced of Yougov's MRP this time round, but nor do I think we're already nailed on for a hung parliament.
    Personally, I find some of the results surprising. Most of the con/lib marginals are in line with constituency polling when available and make sense given the majorities and remain vote (I'm just a bit surprised the swing is so big in St Albans), but in most labour leave seats the swing to the tories is much smaller than the constituency polls have shown, or what you'd expect based on the terrible retention rate of labour leave voters (50% according to the latest Deltapoll iirc).

    It'll be interesting to see which is right on polling day.
    Remember that the MRP’s weakness, as YouGov themselves explain in their blurb, is dealing with very localised campaigns. As the LDs have been pushed back to targeting more narrowly, you’d expect the model to get less accurate in forecasting their result.
    If the LD get 12% the customary number of seats for a Liberal party on that level is in the low teens.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609

    It doesn’t sound like MRP will make pleasant reading for the LDs.

    Money on Swinson being next leader to quit? Corbyn might avoid going immediately (perhaps a pledge to quit before next conference?) whereas if it’s a poor LD night Swinson could go quickly.

    I’m not saying incredibly likely. I think she’ll probably on balance get another chance given she’s only just taken the job, but there might be value there?

    If the job is trashing the LibDems, "Prime Minister" Jo Swinson will have had a cracking first effort......
  • kjohnw1 said:

    What happened to Scott P ?

    He had some log-in problems apparently and hasn't been able to post. I wouldn't know if he's missing it or not.
  • DruttDrutt Posts: 1,124
    speedy2 said:

    Good news weather wise.
    The newest predictions have shifted the worst part of the storm to France.
    The more south you are the worse it will be but not worse than today's weather.

    The French getting the worst of the weather is *always* good news.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    Have been predicting for weeks that LD max % will be 10%
  • timmotimmo Posts: 1,469
    Carshalton will.undoubtedly be tight.
    Will be within 1000 either way..Tom Brakes GOTV has always been fantastic
  • jayfdeejayfdee Posts: 618
    I do wonder if Tim Farron will survive, the usual display of banners seem somewhat subdued this time, the A6 North of Milnthorpe is not quite as heavily bannered this time.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    isam said:

    Henrietta said:

    Byronic said:

    Hmmm

    Another pointer to HP
    Yes, the Brexit Party op failed. That's why Nigel Farage is talking about spoiling ballots. He's not saying every possible switcher from Labour should spoil their ballot rather than vote Tory even when a BXP candidate is on offer, but he is saying to those who are reluctant to go the whole hog that they should consider going halfway and spoiling their ballot instead. It's like encouraging a child to eat their peas.

    The Brexit Party winning the Euros got May sacked, the second referendum/revoke tide turned, and a Tory leader who has got Brexit almost over the line installed. People who wanted to Remain now feasting on crumbs of comfort by seeing Farage marginalised are welcome to them!
    Should the Conservatives win on Thursday and Brexit goes ahead as planned, then there's a strong argument to be made that Farage is the most consequential figure in British politics of the 21st Century, to date.

    I seek to comment not on the desirability or otherwise of this situation, but merely to suggest that it is the case.
  • speedy2speedy2 Posts: 981
    jayfdee said:

    I do wonder if Tim Farron will survive, the usual display of banners seem somewhat subdued this time, the A6 North of Milnthorpe is not quite as heavily bannered this time.

    I expect him to hold, his seat was one of the very few in the north to have voted Remain.
  • What time is the MRP due?
  • timmotimmo Posts: 1,469

    What time is the MRP due?

    10
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    What time is the MRP due?

    10pm. :o
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,652

    isam said:

    Henrietta said:

    Byronic said:

    Hmmm

    Another pointer to HP
    Yes, the Brexit Party op failed. That's why Nigel Farage is talking about spoiling ballots. He's not saying every possible switcher from Labour should spoil their ballot rather than vote Tory even when a BXP candidate is on offer, but he is saying to those who are reluctant to go the whole hog that they should consider going halfway and spoiling their ballot instead. It's like encouraging a child to eat their peas.

    The Brexit Party winning the Euros got May sacked, the second referendum/revoke tide turned, and a Tory leader who has got Brexit almost over the line installed. People who wanted to Remain now feasting on crumbs of comfort by seeing Farage marginalised are welcome to them!
    Should the Conservatives win on Thursday and Brexit goes ahead as planned, then there's a strong argument to be made that Farage is the most consequential figure in British politics of the 21st Century, to date.

    I seek to comment not on the desirability or otherwise of this situation, but merely to suggest that it is the case.
    Farage was just leader of the party advocating the popular cause of EU exit, rather than a consequential figure himself. I can't think of anyone who decided they wanted to exit the EU because they liked Nigel Farage. He and Ukip succeeded because of the intrinsic and long-standing popularity of Brexit, and because of PR in European elections, which isn't due to anybody in British politics in particular.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Huge regional differences in postal voting. North East had over a quarter of votes done by post even in 2010. That trend has continued. It's quite possible that we'll see wild swings in the Northeast and the target seats for the Tories doing well.

    https://t.co/F1v9HSCTDg https://t.co/utvhwCGTSz

    Interesting for those early declarations
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    RobD said:

    What time is the MRP due?

    10pm. :o
    Sure RobD?
  • nichomar said:

    I would be opposing the LDs in every seat now. They could be looking at almost a wipe out I fancy.

    The MRP says that Plaid, the Greens and the Lib Dems have something important in common (apart from the Remain Alliance): one safe seat each. But, in fairness, there's also a collection of likelies on top of that.

    I'd expect them to do a lot better than one, of course. I still think that the prediction I ventured a few weeks ago of 20-22 seats is achievable, but at the upper end of possible outcomes as things stand.

    To qualify as a record drubbing, the Lib Dems would need to go below eight. The record low for the old Liberal Party was six.
    I can see them being squeezed into single figures now. Their Scotland seats all look vulnerable as do Westmoreland, North Norfolk and Carshalton.If they have a lot of near misses in the South East there wont be much left.Even Richmond doesn't seem as certain as it once looked.
    Evidence please
    Focaldata's MRP has them losing Carshalton, Eastbourne, North Norfolk and Caithness, with Swinson herself clinging on to her seat by only 1%.

    I have other reservations about their results, but it's very close to what Yougov's MRP said. They just have them barely taking a couple more tory seats than Yougov did, like Winchester or Cities of London and Westminster (doubt the latter though given yesterday's poll...), and if the libdems perform a tiny bit worse than expected they could be at 8 seats or below under that model (they only have Richmond, Oxford West, Twickenham, Kingston, Bath and Orkney as safe seats).
  • melcf said:

    Every single citizen in this country should watch this

    https://twitter.com/drbenwhite/status/1204309488808976384?s=20

    Got cancer? No problem, grab a couple of coats and lie down. Whilst our in house clown gets the oven ready brexit done

    My late sister had the misfortune to have cancer in Labour's NHS service in Wales, where the level of incompetence from Consultant downwards was breath taking,
    Exactly my own experience with my sister here in Wales. After 2 years of suffering with cancer she was deteriorating rapidly and had a DNR. I was summoned to the nursing home as she was sinking rapidly and it was clear she had only a short time left

    The nursing sister repeatedly phoned our surgery for a doctor only to receive an answer phone message that they were closed for staff training (a thursday afternoon)

    In the end she called an ambulance who confirmed she was failing and asked me as her POA what to do. I did not feel qualified and wanted my sister to pass away in the nursing home in accordance with her wishes but the paramedics said they would take her to hospital but the decision was mine. I was not at all happy but relented for her to go to hospital where she died five hours later

    I then had to perform a formal identification of her body and provide a police statement

    And all because the doctors closed their surgery and no cover was available anywhere else. Glan Clwyd hospital has been failing for years and is in special measures

    Sorry to hear about your sister.

    Some of your account brings back memories of the endless cancelled appointments often at the last minute, weeks to get a GP appointment etc.

    Then after numerous cancellations go to LLandough hospital for the first Chemo treatment & are then told it can't happen because no pre-treatment has been done (It's never happened before was the Consultant's excuse).
    And then resume your place in the queue..

    Labour's NHS Wales is beyond crap.
  • nichomar said:

    I would be opposing the LDs in every seat now. They could be looking at almost a wipe out I fancy.

    The MRP says that Plaid, the Greens and the Lib Dems have something important in common (apart from the Remain Alliance): one safe seat each. But, in fairness, there's also a collection of likelies on top of that.

    I'd expect them to do a lot better than one, of course. I still think that the prediction I ventured a few weeks ago of 20-22 seats is achievable, but at the upper end of possible outcomes as things stand.

    To qualify as a record drubbing, the Lib Dems would need to go below eight. The record low for the old Liberal Party was six.
    I can see them being squeezed into single figures now. Their Scotland seats all look vulnerable as do Westmoreland, North Norfolk and Carshalton.If they have a lot of near misses in the South East there wont be much left.Even Richmond doesn't seem as certain as it once looked.
    Evidence please
    I think you will see it in the MRP. Tories still campaigning hard in Richmond ,they haven't given up.Odds tightening and SNP increasingly bullish in the 3 Scottish seats( other than O&S).The London polls yesterday showed the LDs droppping back. The evidence is there.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    jayfdee said:

    I do wonder if Tim Farron will survive, the usual display of banners seem somewhat subdued this time, the A6 North of Milnthorpe is not quite as heavily bannered this time.

    It's a Remain-leaning area - but only by about 53:47 according to estimates. The current iteration of the MRP has the seat as leaning Lib Dem (5% vote share margin based on central estimates,) and the 2017 result was closer than that of course. The Brexit Party is a complicating factor this time, but I'd imagine that the local Tories will be fancying their chances nonetheless.
  • TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,683

    isam said:

    What if the MRP just got lucky once?

    Indeed and things could be very different this time if there is more tactical voting
    Or less tactical voting. And there's the rub; it's impossible to tell how much tactical voting is actually tactical.

    When I lived in Cheltenham I met loads of Labour supporters who voted LibDem because Labour didn't stand a chance. If they had all voted Labour then they might have actually been the main challengers to the Tories and the LibDems would have tactically voted for them.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    A politically savvy friend of mine just made a brilliant and encouraging point

    How many self respecting women would admit to fancying Boris, let alone sleeping with him? 10%? 5%?

    Yet they DO fancy him and they DO sleep with him. He's probably boffed more women than any PM since Lloyd George.

    Ditto the Tories, People won't admit to fancying them, but they will vote for them, in secret. Especially women
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,652
    Probably the most consequential figure of C21 politics is Cameron who didn't have to push so quickly on austerity, but did anyway, and his choice brought about Corbyn, Brexit, and all the rest. You could also argue Blair but it looks more like Cameron at the moment.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,305
    malcolmg said:

    fitalass said:

    malcolmg said:

    Alistair said:

    fitalass said:
    The 'experts' who think its odd the SNP didn't focus solely on Brexit need to work out why the SNP campaign bombed in 2017 when they did exactly that.

    The current dual message is like a knocking up your core vote strategy. Mention Indy first to fire up Yessers who Did Not Vote in 2017. Then switch to an anti Boris and Brexit message to lock down the anti-Con vote.

    This is so blindingly obvious I cannot take the utterances of the people in the article seriously.
    Alistair , It is the SUN, comic singers at best. I see also Fitalaugh has reappeared at election time, CCHQ must be struggling when they are bringing out the old Dad's Army mob.
    Hi MalcolmG, glad to see you are still in feisty and acerbic form as ever. I rarely post these days, but I do still follow PB.com, just prefer to lurk rather than post very often outside elections. I finally caught the political bug and started to do some GE/Holyrood betting from 2015 onwards with some modest success after so many years of following the expertise and tips of the regular punters on here.
    Good to see you Fitalass and glad to see you take my comments in the way they are intended, just for laughs. Many on here take it too seriously and miss intended humour. I hope you are well and enjoying life.
    All well with us, although life in general feels a lot quieter now all three of our lads have flown the nest. I do miss that everyday hectic buzz and noise of family life. Hope you too are well and enjoying life in your patch of Scotland.
  • jayfdeejayfdee Posts: 618
    speedy2 said:

    jayfdee said:

    I do wonder if Tim Farron will survive, the usual display of banners seem somewhat subdued this time, the A6 North of Milnthorpe is not quite as heavily bannered this time.

    I expect him to hold, his seat was one of the very few in the north to have voted Remain.
    You may be right, but it is an unusual outcrop of LD support surroundd by blue.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    edited December 2019
    Stocky said:

    RobD said:

    What time is the MRP due?

    10pm. :o
    Sure RobD?
    Would I lie to PB?

    *innocent face*
  • TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,683
    jayfdee said:

    I do wonder if Tim Farron will survive, the usual display of banners seem somewhat subdued this time, the A6 North of Milnthorpe is not quite as heavily bannered this time.

    And out in the villages to the south there seem to be a lot more blue posters than normal.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    The leaker whether you want to believe him has stated the MRP is not as good for the Tories as the last one .
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    speedy2 said:

    Good news weather wise.
    The newest predictions have shifted the worst part of the storm to France.
    The more south you are the worst it will be but not worse than today's weather.

    Today is diabolical in the south
    One of the worst days I can remember for weeks. It has rained all day long with driving gale force winds. Hideous.

    And Speedy is talking complete rubbish. Thursday's weather is awful. Heavy rain across the south and a heavy band into the north after lunch which will turn to sleet and snow even to low levels.
    My mother texted me to say she is stuck in the canaries as her cruise ship has broken down. I told her not to be in any hurry to sail back north.
    Which cruise ship is that if you do not mind telling me ?
    P&O Ventura. They are supposed to be returning via ports in Portugal and Spain, which have been cancelled. Mum says she will be getting some money back. I told her having longer in the canaries sunshine and a refund is a result.
  • TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,683
    nico67 said:

    The leaker whether you want to believe him has stated the MRP is not as good for the Tories as the last one .

    He hasn't stated anything. He's emoji-ed some embargo-busting teasers.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    Just a shame Sean has drunk himself into a stupor before the MRP is published...
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    edited December 2019
    TudorRose said:

    nico67 said:

    The leaker whether you want to believe him has stated the MRP is not as good for the Tories as the last one .

    He hasn't stated anything. He's emoji-ed some embargo-busting teasers.
    He posted this addendum

    https://twitter.com/joe_armitage/status/1204492100244512769
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,233
    Foxy said:

    melcf said:

    Charles said:

    RobD said:

    Anyway, as this place is wobblier than a jelly factory in an earthquake, I shall go and watch 1917 for a couple of hours.....

    Watching the BBC election special from 1983 might help too.
    I'm going to steel myself and watch 2017 again. :)


    (just kidding, I couldn't watch that again :o )
    https://twitter.com/Sunil_P2/status/872797587413360640
    Dammit you bastard!

    I didn't realise that was 2017 until after I'd had a heart attack!
    Had a heart attack? Head up to your local A&E, if it ain't closed by now. Please turn up with a couple of coats or preferably a sleeping bag. They may thrombolyse you by Xmas, if they manage to find you under that pile of furniture. In the meanwhile vote Brexit.
    Don't be silly, @Charles will be making his own private arrangements. :smile:
    That's the thing. When your myocardium goes on the blink, the best place is the emergency cardiac catheter lab. In Leicester the ambos take you straight there, bypassing ED, and often having an emergency stent and thrombosis within 20 min.

    Try to get that service in the private sector and you will be telling your tale to St Peter!
    Do you think he'll be sympathetic?
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,507

    IanB2 said:

    Steve Coogan out campaigning for the LibDems in Lewis today. Hope he didn’t get too wet.

    That was yesterday unless he has done 2 days there
    Maybe it was Lewes yesterday and now up in Lewis.
  • melcf said:

    Every single citizen in this country should watch this

    https://twitter.com/drbenwhite/status/1204309488808976384?s=20

    Got cancer? No problem, grab a couple of coats and lie down. Whilst our in house clown gets the oven ready brexit done

    My late sister had the misfortune to have cancer in Labour's NHS service in Wales, where the level of incompetence from Consultant downwards was breath taking,
    Exactly my own experience with my sister here in Wales. After 2 years of suffering with cancer she was deteriorating rapidly and had a DNR. I was summoned to the nursing home as she was sinking rapidly and it was clear she had only a short time left

    The nursing sister repeatedly phoned our surgery for a doctor only to receive an answer phone message that they were closed for staff training (a thursday afternoon)

    In the end she called an ambulance who confirmed she was failing and asked me as her POA what to do. I did not feel qualified and wanted my sister to pass away in the nursing home in accordance with her wishes but the paramedics said they would take her to hospital but the decision was mine. I was not at all happy but relented for her to go to hospital where she died five hours later

    I then had to perform a formal identification of her body and provide a police statement

    And all because the doctors closed their surgery and no cover was available anywhere else. Glan Clwyd hospital has been failing for years and is in special measures

    Sorry to hear about your sister.

    Some of your account brings back memories of the endless cancelled appointments often at the last minute, weeks to get a GP appointment etc.

    Then after numerous cancellations go to LLandough hospital for the first Chemo treatment & are then told it can't happen because no pre-treatment has been done (It's never happened before was the Consultant's excuse).
    And then resume your place in the queue..

    Labour's NHS Wales is beyond crap.
    That is my experience over many years
  • isam said:

    Henrietta said:

    Byronic said:

    Hmmm

    Another pointer to HP
    Yes, the Brexit Party op failed. That's why Nigel Farage is talking about spoiling ballots. He's not saying every possible switcher from Labour should spoil their ballot rather than vote Tory even when a BXP candidate is on offer, but he is saying to those who are reluctant to go the whole hog that they should consider going halfway and spoiling their ballot instead. It's like encouraging a child to eat their peas.

    The Brexit Party winning the Euros got May sacked, the second referendum/revoke tide turned, and a Tory leader who has got Brexit almost over the line installed. People who wanted to Remain now feasting on crumbs of comfort by seeing Farage marginalised are welcome to them!
    The ERG and to some extent Tory constituency chairmen's unwillingness to countenance a Theresa May arrangement with Labour that would have involved effectively staying in the CU and SM was what got May sacked.

    I wouldn't say Boris Johnson has "got Brexit almost over the line". You write as if he's a rugby player who has done some spectacular and forceful moves, beaten player after player, and here he is, almost about to score a memorable try. But he hasn't succeeded at anything, for all his talk of a new "golden age". I'm sure his record of failures in the Commons (number of things he has failed at, divided by the number he has attempted) surpasses any previous prime minister's for a century at least.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    TudorRose said:

    nico67 said:

    The leaker whether you want to believe him has stated the MRP is not as good for the Tories as the last one .

    He hasn't stated anything. He's emoji-ed some embargo-busting teasers.
    He just has. He said the Tories won’t do as well but will still be in a position to form the next government . That was tweeted about 20 mins ago.
  • brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    edited December 2019
    How large is the error bar on an emoji?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,128
    wills66 said:

    Comical scenes as PB regulars (average age = lots) fire up their copies of Netscape, go to AltaVista and search for "smiley face little pictures".

    Yeah, me too.

    WillS.

    Alta vista had some lovely Boolean search terms, and Google's never been the same since they deprecated the "+" symbol...

    ...fuck it, I might as well pick up my pension now... :(
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Byronic said:

    A politically savvy friend of mine just made a brilliant and encouraging point

    How many self respecting women would admit to fancying Boris, let alone sleeping with him? 10%? 5%?

    Yet they DO fancy him and they DO sleep with him. He's probably boffed more women than any PM since Lloyd George.

    Ditto the Tories, People won't admit to fancying them, but they will vote for them, in secret. Especially women

    Just look at Sophy Ridge fangirling all over him Sunday
  • speedy2speedy2 Posts: 981

    isam said:

    Henrietta said:

    Byronic said:

    Hmmm

    Another pointer to HP
    Yes, the Brexit Party op failed. That's why Nigel Farage is talking about spoiling ballots. He's not saying every possible switcher from Labour should spoil their ballot rather than vote Tory even when a BXP candidate is on offer, but he is saying to those who are reluctant to go the whole hog that they should consider going halfway and spoiling their ballot instead. It's like encouraging a child to eat their peas.

    The Brexit Party winning the Euros got May sacked, the second referendum/revoke tide turned, and a Tory leader who has got Brexit almost over the line installed. People who wanted to Remain now feasting on crumbs of comfort by seeing Farage marginalised are welcome to them!
    Should the Conservatives win on Thursday and Brexit goes ahead as planned, then there's a strong argument to be made that Farage is the most consequential figure in British politics of the 21st Century, to date.

    I seek to comment not on the desirability or otherwise of this situation, but merely to suggest that it is the case.
    There have been other personalities like Farage but all of them were MP's.
    Here is the list of people who changed British History without being PM:
    Paddy Ashdown, he destroyed the Liberal centre.
    David Owen, he stopped Foot from becoming PM.
    Enoch Powell, he overthrew 2 PM's over Immigration and Europe.
    Joseph Chamberlain, he split the Liberals and the Conservatives twice over Ireland and Protectionism.
  • RobD said:

    TudorRose said:

    nico67 said:

    The leaker whether you want to believe him has stated the MRP is not as good for the Tories as the last one .

    He hasn't stated anything. He's emoji-ed some embargo-busting teasers.
    He posted this addendum

    https://twitter.com/joe_armitage/status/1204492100244512769
    The betting moved slightly but why is he allowed to comment like this
  • isam said:

    What if the MRP just got lucky once?

    Indeed and things could be very different this time if there is more tactical voting
    Or less tactical voting.

    Last time Lib Dems could tactically vote Labour because they didn't understand what an antisemite Corbyn was. This time though they are better informed.
  • IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    speedy2 said:

    Good news weather wise.
    The newest predictions have shifted the worst part of the storm to France.
    The more south you are the worst it will be but not worse than today's weather.

    Today is diabolical in the south
    One of the worst days I can remember for weeks. It has rained all day long with driving gale force winds. Hideous.

    And Speedy is talking complete rubbish. Thursday's weather is awful. Heavy rain across the south and a heavy band into the north after lunch which will turn to sleet and snow even to low levels.
    My mother texted me to say she is stuck in the canaries as her cruise ship has broken down. I told her not to be in any hurry to sail back north.
    Which cruise ship is that if you do not mind telling me ?
    P&O Ventura. They are supposed to be returning via ports in Portugal and Spain, which have been cancelled. Mum says she will be getting some money back. I told her having longer in the canaries sunshine and a refund is a result.
    Thank you. It is unusual
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    edited December 2019
    The Labour shadow minister's Tory friend is getting WAAY to hard a press.

    Look at it this way. He has info given to him, that told him Corbyn was not just shit, but a danger to the country, and Labour ministers were secretly admitting this,

    Was he meant to sit on that, because mates? Or should he do the nation a service, and sacrifice a friendship for the greater good?

    The wanker here is Ashworth. A man prepared to campaign for a leader he knows is unfit, and a menace to our security
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,464

    How large is the error bar on an emoji?

    🤷‍♂️
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    It doesn’t sound like MRP will make pleasant reading for the LDs.

    Money on Swinson being next leader to quit? Corbyn might avoid going immediately (perhaps a pledge to quit before next conference?) whereas if it’s a poor LD night Swinson could go quickly.

    I’m not saying incredibly likely. I think she’ll probably on balance get another chance given she’s only just taken the job, but there might be value there?

    Swinson is brand new and will be given time to grow into the job. The mistakes are strategic - getting carried away after the Euros and planning a campaign expecting to be about to sweep the country. Adopting a revoke policy that wouldn’t attract a single extra voter but would repel many soft remainers. Appointing the same guy to manage the campaign that made such a shambles of 2017. Making idiots of themselves by abusing OGH’s permission to use his reputation to send absurd voter letters to no-hope constituencies up and down the land. Claiming to be focused on denying Bozo his majority yet even today directing activists toward seats where we are up against Labour remainers. Etc.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    nichomar said:

    I would be opposing the LDs in every seat now. They could be looking at almost a wipe out I fancy.

    The MRP says that Plaid, the Greens and the Lib Dems have something important in common (apart from the Remain Alliance): one safe seat each. But, in fairness, there's also a collection of likelies on top of that.

    I'd expect them to do a lot better than one, of course. I still think that the prediction I ventured a few weeks ago of 20-22 seats is achievable, but at the upper end of possible outcomes as things stand.

    To qualify as a record drubbing, the Lib Dems would need to go below eight. The record low for the old Liberal Party was six.
    I can see them being squeezed into single figures now. Their Scotland seats all look vulnerable as do Westmoreland, North Norfolk and Carshalton.If they have a lot of near misses in the South East there wont be much left.Even Richmond doesn't seem as certain as it once looked.
    Evidence please
    I think you will see it in the MRP. Tories still campaigning hard in Richmond ,they haven't given up.Odds tightening and SNP increasingly bullish in the 3 Scottish seats( other than O&S).The London polls yesterday showed the LDs droppping back. The evidence is there.
    The model has Caithness and Edin W as too close to call and Jo Swinson not that far clear of the SNP either. On a bad night, Sheffield Hallam could end up as the only LD seat between Orkney and Oxford.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Byronic said:

    A politically savvy friend of mine just made a brilliant and encouraging point

    How many self respecting women would admit to fancying Boris, let alone sleeping with him? 10%? 5%?

    Yet they DO fancy him and they DO sleep with him. He's probably boffed more women than any PM since Lloyd George.

    Ditto the Tories, People won't admit to fancying them, but they will vote for them, in secret. Especially women

    Clearly there is more than one way to be screwed by johnson
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502

    RobD said:

    TudorRose said:

    nico67 said:

    The leaker whether you want to believe him has stated the MRP is not as good for the Tories as the last one .

    He hasn't stated anything. He's emoji-ed some embargo-busting teasers.
    He posted this addendum

    https://twitter.com/joe_armitage/status/1204492100244512769
    The betting moved slightly but why is he allowed to comment like this
    I agree . I think he’s got delusions of grandeur and needs to shut up . YouGov must be very unhappy .
  • TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,683
    RobD said:

    TudorRose said:

    nico67 said:

    The leaker whether you want to believe him has stated the MRP is not as good for the Tories as the last one .

    He hasn't stated anything. He's emoji-ed some embargo-busting teasers.
    He posted this addendum

    https://twitter.com/joe_armitage/status/1204492100244512769
    Thanks!

    What's the point of the embargo then?
  • DruttDrutt Posts: 1,124
    Nobidexx said:

    nichomar said:

    I would be opposing the LDs in every seat now. They could be looking at almost a wipe out I fancy.

    The MRP says that Plaid, the Greens and the Lib Dems have something important in common (apart from the Remain Alliance): one safe seat each. But, in fairness, there's also a collection of likelies on top of that.

    I'd expect them to do a lot better than one, of course. I still think that the prediction I ventured a few weeks ago of 20-22 seats is achievable, but at the upper end of possible outcomes as things stand.

    To qualify as a record drubbing, the Lib Dems would need to go below eight. The record low for the old Liberal Party was six.
    I can see them being squeezed into single figures now. Their Scotland seats all look vulnerable as do Westmoreland, North Norfolk and Carshalton.If they have a lot of near misses in the South East there wont be much left.Even Richmond doesn't seem as certain as it once looked.
    Evidence please
    Focaldata's MRP has them losing Carshalton, Eastbourne, North Norfolk and Caithness, with Swinson herself clinging on to her seat by only 1%.

    I have other reservations about their results, but it's very close to what Yougov's MRP said. They just have them barely taking a couple more tory seats than Yougov did, like Winchester or Cities of London and Westminster (doubt the latter though given yesterday's poll...), and if the libdems perform a tiny bit worse than expected they could be at 8 seats or below under that model (they only have Richmond, Oxford West, Twickenham, Kingston, Bath and Orkney as safe seats).
    LD under/overs is 18.5 with bet365. I filled my ISA just before the election was called and don't have a great deal of skin in this game, but I am on LD under 36.5 at 5/6 for a few quid.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    speedy2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Nobidexx said:

    speedy2 said:

    So there is not much change, in line with the non movement in polls for the past 2 weeks.
    I have to say I'm haven't been quite convinced of Yougov's MRP this time round, but nor do I think we're already nailed on for a hung parliament.
    Personally, I find some of the results surprising. Most of the con/lib marginals are in line with constituency polling when available and make sense given the majorities and remain vote (I'm just a bit surprised the swing is so big in St Albans), but in most labour leave seats the swing to the tories is much smaller than the constituency polls have shown, or what you'd expect based on the terrible retention rate of labour leave voters (50% according to the latest Deltapoll iirc).

    It'll be interesting to see which is right on polling day.
    Remember that the MRP’s weakness, as YouGov themselves explain in their blurb, is dealing with very localised campaigns. As the LDs have been pushed back to targeting more narrowly, you’d expect the model to get less accurate in forecasting their result.
    If the LD get 12% the customary number of seats for a Liberal party on that level is in the low teens.
    Whereas in any mature representative democracy it should be about 80.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    edited December 2019
    It's quite possible he knows nothing and is just guessing. We're all expecting the Tories to move in that direction, so it isn't too surprising.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,233

    I would be opposing the LDs in every seat now. They could be looking at almost a wipe out I fancy.

    They'd have to be pretty unlucky to increase their total vote count by 50+% and see an almost total wipeout.

    Not impossible, of course, but unlikely.

    I'd have thought their Deepest Remainia seats would be pretty safe: Twickenham, Kingston, OxWAb, Bath, plus Orkney & Shetland. I'd also be staggered if they didn't take Richmond Park.
  • speedy2speedy2 Posts: 981
    RobD said:

    TudorRose said:

    nico67 said:

    The leaker whether you want to believe him has stated the MRP is not as good for the Tories as the last one .

    He hasn't stated anything. He's emoji-ed some embargo-busting teasers.
    He posted this addendum

    https://twitter.com/joe_armitage/status/1204492100244512769
    I don't like the "position to be in government".
    That could be the same Hung Parliament as the last one.
  • Byronic said:

    A politically savvy friend of mine just made a brilliant and encouraging point

    How many self respecting women would admit to fancying Boris, let alone sleeping with him? 10%? 5%?

    Yet they DO fancy him and they DO sleep with him. He's probably boffed more women than any PM since Lloyd George.

    Ditto the Tories, People won't admit to fancying them, but they will vote for them, in secret. Especially women

    Just look at Sophy Ridge fangirling all over him Sunday
    And that was the second time he had that effect on Sophy
  • jayfdeejayfdee Posts: 618
    TudorRose said:

    jayfdee said:

    I do wonder if Tim Farron will survive, the usual display of banners seem somewhat subdued this time, the A6 North of Milnthorpe is not quite as heavily bannered this time.

    And out in the villages to the south there seem to be a lot more blue posters than normal.
    Yes, true, but Lancaster will probably go Cat, and Morecambe will probably stay Con.
  • Ave_it said:

    For those who have worked for their money be scared. Be very scared!

    Are those who inherited masses of wealth offshore or otherwise protected about to whack up income tax? :)

  • welshowl said:

    How large is the error bar on an emoji?

    🤷‍♂️
    😂
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,076
    I would suggest people remember the MRP is a model based on polling data, not constituency level polling, not an exit poll and certainly not the result.

    Its effectiveness is giving a better estimate of the big picture result than a single poll, not in predicting individual seats. Localised tactical voting isn't picked up.

    Its importance is being overhyped I think.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    Byronic said:

    The Labour shadow minister's Tory friend is getting WAAY to hard a press.

    Look at it this way. He has info given to him, that told him Corbyn was not just shit, but a danger to the country, and Labour ministers were secretly admitting this,

    Was he meant to sit on that, because mates? Or should he do the nation a service, and sacrifice a friendship for the greater good?

    The wanker here is Ashworth. A man prepared to campaign for a leader he knows is unfit, and a menace to our security

    Do you often tape friends conversations with you ? I’m not defending Ashworth who is an idiot but equally his so called friend is pondscum !
  • Joe Armitage
    @joe_armitage
    ·
    8m
    The size of the majority rhymes with flirty.
  • So the predicted majority is 30. That guy tweeting all this is never going to be told in the future is he.
  • Whilst we are swapping NHS stories, I have one from 2005, when Labour were in charge.

    My Mum went into hospital because of pain she was having. When we went there we found out that it was cancer. She had been in for checks not that long beforehand (having had a melanoma removed the year before). The doctor was looking at the results of those checks, and was asking the other staff why it hadn't been picked up. It turned out that they hadn't been dealt with properly.

    It was probably too late for her anyway, but you never know.

    The NHS isn't perfect whoever is running it. I agree with previous comments that it needs the politics taking out of it, and the emotion. We need to consider all the options, and be prepared to make difficult (and sometimes unpopular) decisions to get the best results.

    Using the NHS as a political football isn't helping anyone.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
  • In 2017 the subsequent MRP was less accurate than the original one wasn't it?
  • speedy2speedy2 Posts: 981
    That is better, a majority of Forty or Fifty.
    The swingometer says a majority of around 50 if the Conservatives lead by 11%.
  • In 2017 the subsequent MRP was less accurate than the original one wasn't it?

    Swingback.....
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,128
    Byronic said:

    A politically savvy friend of mine just made a brilliant and encouraging point

    How many self respecting women would admit to fancying Boris, let alone sleeping with him? 10%? 5%?

    Yet they DO fancy him and they DO sleep with him. He's probably boffed more women than any PM since Lloyd George.

    Ditto the Tories, People won't admit to fancying them, but they will vote for them, in secret. Especially women

    Leaving aside the fact that you're wildly breaking character at this point, the number of women who have slept with Boris Johnson is drawn from a limited pool of people and far outweighed by the number of women who haven't slept with him, and by the number of women who wouldn't sleep with him if you'd put a gun to their heads. Stop being silly

  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,113
    edited December 2019
    What is he playing at. Pathetic attention seeker
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    If the LDs go down to single figures in seats and vote share, are they dead forever?

    Gotta be close
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092
    speedy2 said:

    That is better, a majority of Forty or Fifty.
    The swingometer says a majority of around 50 if the Conservatives lead by 11%.
    Uh
  • TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,683
    jayfdee said:

    TudorRose said:

    jayfdee said:

    I do wonder if Tim Farron will survive, the usual display of banners seem somewhat subdued this time, the A6 North of Milnthorpe is not quite as heavily bannered this time.

    And out in the villages to the south there seem to be a lot more blue posters than normal.
    Yes, true, but Lancaster will probably go Cat, and Morecambe will probably stay Con.
    Yes, I agree with both of those. Lancaster might be closer than expected if the Greens continue their push from the Euros but I've seen no evidence of them working the area that hard.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    Byronic said:

    A politically savvy friend of mine just made a brilliant and encouraging point

    How many self respecting women would admit to fancying Boris, let alone sleeping with him? 10%? 5%?

    Yet they DO fancy him and they DO sleep with him. He's probably boffed more women than any PM since Lloyd George.

    Ditto the Tories, People won't admit to fancying them, but they will vote for them, in secret. Especially women

    Haven’t you looked at the polls? If Bozo wins, it'll be on the back of male voters. Ultimately it’ll be on all of our backs, but it appears to be men who are more inclined to be duped by his shtick. Women are better able to spot a fraud when they see one.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502

    What is he pkaying at. Pathetic attention seeker
    I’m even less inclined to believe his previous tweets given his latest one . He needs to STFU ! Apologies for my bad language but really he’s seriously beginning to grate now.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,128
    Look, will somebody just punch him? Arrogant prick.
  • I'm still getting facebook friends sharing the fake news about the kid in hospital being fake news, even now.
  • jayfdeejayfdee Posts: 618

    Whilst we are swapping NHS stories, I have one from 2005, when Labour were in charge.

    My Mum went into hospital because of pain she was having. When we went there we found out that it was cancer. She had been in for checks not that long beforehand (having had a melanoma removed the year before). The doctor was looking at the results of those checks, and was asking the other staff why it hadn't been picked up. It turned out that they hadn't been dealt with properly.

    It was probably too late for her anyway, but you never know.

    The NHS isn't perfect whoever is running it. I agree with previous comments that it needs the politics taking out of it, and the emotion. We need to consider all the options, and be prepared to make difficult (and sometimes unpopular) decisions to get the best results.

    Using the NHS as a political football isn't helping anyone.

    Agree, take the politics out,
    End of wishful thinking.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Byronic said:

    If the LDs go down to single figures in seats and vote share, are they dead forever?

    Gotta be close

    No you just have to look at their local government base and the fact that the so called big parties are both crap.
  • NEW MRP model from Focaldata:

    CON 337
    LAB 235
    SNP 41
    LD 14
    PC 3
    GRN 1
    BXP 0
    Speaker 1

    CON majority 24
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    What is he playing at. Pathetic attention seeker
    He is. But it can only be thirty. Which is why the Tory emoji is relief, rather than joy.

    Until we remind PB Tories that thirty is well within MOE.
  • TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,683
    timmo said:

    Embargo unembargoed...24 the majority

    I think that's a different MRP poll.
  • marke0903 said:

    NEW MRP model from Focaldata:

    CON 337
    LAB 235
    SNP 41
    LD 14
    PC 3
    GRN 1
    BXP 0
    Speaker 1

    CON majority 24

    Lib Dems 14. Oh mate.
  • Byronic said:

    A politically savvy friend of mine just made a brilliant and encouraging point

    How many self respecting women would admit to fancying Boris, let alone sleeping with him? 10%? 5%?

    Yet they DO fancy him and they DO sleep with him. He's probably boffed more women than any PM since Lloyd George.

    Ditto the Tories, People won't admit to fancying them, but they will vote for them, in secret. Especially women

    :D:D:D:D

    A man opines on what women think.....
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    viewcode said:

    Look, will somebody just punch him? Arrogant prick.
    Couldn’t have put it better myself !
  • rcs1000 said:

    I would be opposing the LDs in every seat now. They could be looking at almost a wipe out I fancy.

    They'd have to be pretty unlucky to increase their total vote count by 50+% and see an almost total wipeout.

    Not impossible, of course, but unlikely.

    I'd have thought their Deepest Remainia seats would be pretty safe: Twickenham, Kingston, OxWAb, Bath, plus Orkney & Shetland. I'd also be staggered if they didn't take Richmond Park.
    That would be almost a wipe out wouldn't it? 12 per cent plus is not a given either- we have already had polls at lower levels and there is still the potential last minute squeeze to come.
  • Byronic said:

    The Labour shadow minister's Tory friend is getting WAAY to hard a press.

    Look at it this way. He has info given to him, that told him Corbyn was not just shit, but a danger to the country, and Labour ministers were secretly admitting this,

    Was he meant to sit on that, because mates? Or should he do the nation a service, and sacrifice a friendship for the greater good?

    The wanker here is Ashworth. A man prepared to campaign for a leader he knows is unfit, and a menace to our security

    Gove and May have that view of Johnson, doesnt stop them supporting him, working for him and pretending he is a great leader.

    Ashworth improved in my standing, he admitted on live tv hed been a plonker and did what he could to minimise the damage.
  • nico67 said:

    What is he pkaying at. Pathetic attention seeker
    I’m even less inclined to believe his previous tweets given his latest one . He needs to STFU ! Apologies for my bad language but really he’s seriously beginning to grate now.
    Looks as if he has done something we have been unable to do

    Unite us
  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    Focal a touch lower than YG again, that fits.
  • Byronic said:

    A politically savvy friend of mine just made a brilliant and encouraging point

    How many self respecting women would admit to fancying Boris, let alone sleeping with him? 10%? 5%?

    Yet they DO fancy him and they DO sleep with him. He's probably boffed more women than any PM since Lloyd George.

    Ditto the Tories, People won't admit to fancying them, but they will vote for them, in secret. Especially women

    :D:D:D:D

    A man opines on what women think.....
    [Edit: If Boris has managed to sleep with 150 women (doubtful!) then he has managed 0.001% of UK women]
This discussion has been closed.