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  • Stocky said:

    Not a good look for Jonathan Ainsworth on Victoria on BBC

    In fact a car crash

    You would say that wouldn't you
    Only when it is true
    Only in your selectively true world, stop pretending you're impartial
    I am not impartial when it comes to Corbyn
    A lot of focus always goes on Corbyn, but let`s remember who is behind him: McDonnell, Abbott, Pidcock, RLB, Burgon, Butler etc etc. They`ve all got to go in my opinion.

    How diferrent the Lab front bench would look with Cooper, Benn, Miliband, Kinnock, Nandy, Flint ...
    So if the bloody fools had not excluded themselves, we might be in a better place.
  • As usual with Guido, they've not released the whole recording. I wonder why not? Probably because it's equally as bad for Johnson.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    Which Chief Rabbi do you think has endorsed Corbyn?
  • Stocky said:

    Not a good look for Jonathan Ainsworth on Victoria on BBC

    In fact a car crash

    You would say that wouldn't you
    Only when it is true
    Only in your selectively true world, stop pretending you're impartial
    I am not impartial when it comes to Corbyn
    A lot of focus always goes on Corbyn, but let`s remember who is behind him: McDonnell, Abbott, Pidcock, RLB, Burgon, Butler etc etc. They`ve all got to go in my opinion.

    How diferrent the Lab front bench would look with Cooper, Benn, Miliband, Kinnock, Nandy, Flint ...
    Indeed
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,236

    Nigelb said:

    This looks pretty bloody serious to me.

    Australia and Canada seem to be feeling the effects of climate change far worse than we do, or even NZ.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-50722650

    The most dramatic temperature changes have been in the Arctic.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2019/national/climate-environment/climate-change-world/

    To illustrate the point, Siberia's fastest growth industry over the last couple of years has been the export to China of mammoth ivory - which had been buried under permafrost for tens of thousands of years.
    It’s a 100 year project (credibly) to turn it around.

    I just don’t see it as being credible the West can “stop” before 2050-2060 and probably 2080-2090 for the developing world. Anything more aggressive (which won’t happen) and we’d be facing societal collapse and insurrection, and probably even more deaths.

    Therefore, we are going to have to take an awful lot of nasty shit on the chin, and mitigate it.
    An aggressive program now is going to be far less painful than 'taking it on the chin'.
    And I think your estimates of our ability to transition to zero carbon energy are wildly pessimistic and unambitious, particularly for the developing world.
  • RobC said:

    Thread header is interesting and maybe there's a hint of a late swingback to Labour based on the two polls I've seen today. Hung parliament back on.

    what two polls??!
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,602
    Jonathan Ashworth says the person he was talking to was a Tory called Greg Barker. Is this the same Greg Barker who was Tory MP for Bexhill and Battle until recently?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    edited December 2019

    RobC said:

    Thread header is interesting and maybe there's a hint of a late swingback to Labour based on the two polls I've seen today. Hung parliament back on.

    what two polls??!
    Didn’t the last two polls, while good for Labour, show a move to the Tories? Some swingback.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318

    Andy_JS said:

    My view is that I don't think it's right to record a private conversation and then make it public.

    I agree, why the hell was he recording it in the first place?

    To me it seems like a drunken conversation I've had loads of times where I've ranted and raved about how shit Corbyn is
    But you are not I imagine the Shadow Secretary of State for Health.

    Both leaders are people about whom their close colleagues have serious reservations. That is something which the voters ought to be aware of.
  • Cyclefree said:

    Andy_JS said:

    My view is that I don't think it's right to record a private conversation and then make it public.

    I agree, why the hell was he recording it in the first place?

    To me it seems like a drunken conversation I've had loads of times where I've ranted and raved about how shit Corbyn is
    But you are not I imagine the Shadow Secretary of State for Health.

    Both leaders are people about whom their close colleagues have serious reservations. That is something which the voters ought to be aware of.
    I think recording conversations with your friends and then selectively leaking them to the press is pretty low. I wouldn't do that to my friends.
  • Let's hope somebody leaks the full tape because right now we're getting selective quoting and audio
  • Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    This looks pretty bloody serious to me.

    Australia and Canada seem to be feeling the effects of climate change far worse than we do, or even NZ.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-50722650

    The most dramatic temperature changes have been in the Arctic.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2019/national/climate-environment/climate-change-world/

    To illustrate the point, Siberia's fastest growth industry over the last couple of years has been the export to China of mammoth ivory - which had been buried under permafrost for tens of thousands of years.
    It’s a 100 year project (credibly) to turn it around.

    I just don’t see it as being credible the West can “stop” before 2050-2060 and probably 2080-2090 for the developing world. Anything more aggressive (which won’t happen) and we’d be facing societal collapse and insurrection, and probably even more deaths.

    Therefore, we are going to have to take an awful lot of nasty shit on the chin, and mitigate it.
    An aggressive program now is going to be far less painful than 'taking it on the chin'.
    And I think your estimates of our ability to transition to zero carbon energy are wildly pessimistic and unambitious, particularly for the developing world.
    An aggressive program by who? If you mean just us it won't make the slightest bit of difference. If you mean everyone including China and the USA it could.

    Where we can help is leading the way in developing clean technologies and encouraging China to follow suit. Simply shutting down our manufacturing and exporting our emissions to China then importing finished products claiming we are net zero is worse than bullshit.

    Our energy is far cleaner already than China's. Encouraging less energy consumption here but more in China then flying goods here is self defeating.
  • speybay said:

    https://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/1204344720702541825

    Bloody hell, this is naive to the extreme. Although would be interesting to hear what the Tory MP said - I notice that hasn't been released, probably because it's just as bad about Johnson.

    Do you have a day job? Seriously!

    It would be good to hear someone else's view occasionally rather than your relentless astro-turfing..
    Why don't you fuck off?
    That is not acceptable to any poster
    No you know what, I don't give a toss anymore. I've tried to be pleasant to people here and they just throw it back in my face. To be fair to you you've always been pleasant but others haven't and it's right they get called out for it.
    There are ways of doing it
    And I've tried being pleasant and people don't respect me, so why should I respect them?

    Like I said, you've always been pleasant to me so I have treated you in the same way - but others have not. And I am not going to change what I do or so, thank you.
    Thats probably because youve become such a PB bore.

    A period of silence from you would be most welcome...
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,602
    Maybe it was Greg Baker, not Barker. I may have misheard.
  • Let's hope somebody leaks the full tape because right now we're getting selective quoting and audio

    But recording your neighbours is OK?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,471
    Cyclefree said:

    Andy_JS said:

    My view is that I don't think it's right to record a private conversation and then make it public.

    I agree, why the hell was he recording it in the first place?

    To me it seems like a drunken conversation I've had loads of times where I've ranted and raved about how shit Corbyn is
    But you are not I imagine the Shadow Secretary of State for Health.

    Both leaders are people about whom their close colleagues have serious reservations. That is something which the voters ought to be aware of.
    Having watched the leaders on TV I wish I could vote for either a party led by Nicola Sturgeon or one led by Adam Price. TBH, I think of the two Ms Sturgeon shades it.
    Ms Swinson seems, so far, to be an example of the Peter Principle. Rather a pity that someone from the 2017 wasn't chosen, who couldn't have the cruelties of the early Coalition years hung round her neck.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    Cyclefree said:

    Andy_JS said:

    My view is that I don't think it's right to record a private conversation and then make it public.

    I agree, why the hell was he recording it in the first place?

    To me it seems like a drunken conversation I've had loads of times where I've ranted and raved about how shit Corbyn is
    But you are not I imagine the Shadow Secretary of State for Health.

    Both leaders are people about whom their close colleagues have serious reservations. That is something which the voters ought to be aware of.
    I think recording conversations with your friends and then selectively leaking them to the press is pretty low. I wouldn't do that to my friends.
    Are your friends potential cabinet ministers? :D
  • nunu2nunu2 Posts: 1,453
    Cyclefree said:

    nunu2 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Joanthan Ashworth is Shadow Secretary of State for Health and Social Care.

    What happened?
    This is the story. https://order-order.com/2019/12/10/ashworth-civil-service-machine-will-move-quickly-safeguard-national-security-corbyn/

    Ashworth has confirmed the recording is real but is claiming today that it was banter with a friend.
    Hmmmm I dont think Corbyn being a security risk is banter.
  • All voices should be welcome on PB and a little less shooting the messenger wouldn't go amiss. Tempers may be high but if you have nothing nice to say draw a deep breath and move on.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,837

    Nigelb said:

    This looks pretty bloody serious to me.

    Australia and Canada seem to be feeling the effects of climate change far worse than we do, or even NZ.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-50722650

    The most dramatic temperature changes have been in the Arctic.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2019/national/climate-environment/climate-change-world/

    To illustrate the point, Siberia's fastest growth industry over the last couple of years has been the export to China of mammoth ivory - which had been buried under permafrost for tens of thousands of years.
    It’s a 100 year project (credibly) to turn it around.

    I just don’t see it as being credible the West can “stop” before 2050-2060 and probably 2080-2090 for the developing world. Anything more aggressive (which won’t happen) and we’d be facing societal collapse and insurrection, and probably even more deaths.

    Therefore, we are going to have to take an awful lot of nasty shit on the chin, and mitigate it.
    I don't know if it's been reported here, but on Sunday the Uk generated over 40% of its electricity from wind. Add in solar and hydro and you get close to 50%. Once you take on board the 20-odd percent from nuclear, well over 70% of UK energy came from non-carbon sources. The growth in renewables has been frankly aatonishing and there is no reason to think that this growth will abate. Granted, Sunday is a low-demand day, but pretty encouraging, no?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,471

    Let's hope somebody leaks the full tape because right now we're getting selective quoting and audio

    But recording your neighbours is OK?
    There was a case for doing that; seemed like a full-blown case of assault was brewing. Giving it to the Press; well Johnson's a public figure.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318

    Cyclefree said:

    Andy_JS said:

    My view is that I don't think it's right to record a private conversation and then make it public.

    I agree, why the hell was he recording it in the first place?

    To me it seems like a drunken conversation I've had loads of times where I've ranted and raved about how shit Corbyn is
    But you are not I imagine the Shadow Secretary of State for Health.

    Both leaders are people about whom their close colleagues have serious reservations. That is something which the voters ought to be aware of.
    I think recording conversations with your friends and then selectively leaking them to the press is pretty low. I wouldn't do that to my friends.
    I agree. I wouldn’t do that to my friends.

    Nonetheless is this what Ashworth thinks about Corbyn? It is pretty worrying for a potential Labour Cabinet Minister to be saying, apparently, that the Civil Service will do whatever's necessary to protect the country from the PM because the latter’s a security risk.

    And if so that is something voters should know.
  • FensterFenster Posts: 2,115
    Endillion said:

    Which Chief Rabbi do you think has endorsed Corbyn?
    Maginn is an obsessive compulsive Jew baiter.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    All voices should be welcome on PB and a little less shooting the messenger wouldn't go amiss. Tempers may be high but if you have nothing nice to say draw a deep breath and move on.

    Don’t worry. We’ll be back to bitching about pineapple pizza before long. :)
  • I've listened to the tape, it sounds pretty sarcastic to me anyway but remember I am Jeremy Corbyn's official PR spokesman
  • Ashworth story shows you should never trust a Tory.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318

    All voices should be welcome on PB and a little less shooting the messenger wouldn't go amiss. Tempers may be high but if you have nothing nice to say draw a deep breath and move on.

    In that spirit, I appreciated your polite response to my long post yesterday about “guests” and my parents’ experiences.
  • nunu2 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    nunu2 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Joanthan Ashworth is Shadow Secretary of State for Health and Social Care.

    What happened?
    This is the story. https://order-order.com/2019/12/10/ashworth-civil-service-machine-will-move-quickly-safeguard-national-security-corbyn/

    Ashworth has confirmed the recording is real but is claiming today that it was banter with a friend.
    Hmmmm I dont think Corbyn being a security risk is banter.
    What many voters fear has now been confirmed by a senior figure in Corbyn's shadow cabinet.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Stand down Labour rampers, I repeat stand down

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/12/10/general-election-jeremy-corbyn-labour-johnson-brexit-news-latest/

    Jeremy Corbyn's chances of winning the election are “dire”, and the party's reception in some parts of the country “abysmal”, the shadow health secretary has claimed.

    In an explosive recording leaked this morning, Jonathan Ashworth is heard telling a friend to “stop worrying” because a Labour victory is “not going...

  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    Let's hope somebody leaks the full tape because right now we're getting selective quoting and audio

    Unlikely, the Tory wont have forwarded anything that doesn't support the narrative and who else would have it?
  • brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    RobD said:

    All voices should be welcome on PB and a little less shooting the messenger wouldn't go amiss. Tempers may be high but if you have nothing nice to say draw a deep breath and move on.

    Don’t worry. We’ll be back to bitching about pineapple pizza before long. :)
    It's almost the season for watching Diehard.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,361

    98% chance of rain. 63 mph winds. This is going to be a fun canvass session..... 😒

    100% here
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,167
    edited December 2019
    The Tories are going to be going heavily on these security angles in the last couple of days, because their polls have shown good results for it.

    It's a battle for the news agenda between the boy in the NHS, prime Labour territory, and anything the Tories can find to fight it.
  • Let's hope somebody leaks the full tape because right now we're getting selective quoting and audio

    Unlikely, the Tory wont have forwarded anything that doesn't support the narrative and who else would have it?
    True.

    I guarantee the Tory was saying "it's dire for us, Corbyn is going to win" and said Johnson is total crap and a liar.

    This isn't an uncommon view, even amongst Tory MPs.

    It's just Guido being the Government mouthpiece again.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    FYI for those interested in my live data scraping for the big night. In addition to spreadsheet, I intend to have the following two charts be live updated...

    One showing current seat results vs what YouGov MRP predicted for those seats, and the second current result + what YouGov predicts for remaining undeclared seats (ordered in estimated declaration time).

    Hopefully, we should see quite quickly how well YouGov MRP is doing this time and what that means for the final result.



    Wonderful! One thing I really want to see is a model that updates with every declaration, so you can watch the seat projection change, and the confidence interval get smaller, as the night goes on.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    RobD said:

    All voices should be welcome on PB and a little less shooting the messenger wouldn't go amiss. Tempers may be high but if you have nothing nice to say draw a deep breath and move on.

    Don’t worry. We’ll be back to bitching about pineapple pizza before long. :)
    It's almost the season for watching Diehard.

    Good god, you are right :open_mouth:
    Ho! Ho! Ho!
  • Cookie said:

    Nigelb said:

    This looks pretty bloody serious to me.

    Australia and Canada seem to be feeling the effects of climate change far worse than we do, or even NZ.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-50722650

    The most dramatic temperature changes have been in the Arctic.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2019/national/climate-environment/climate-change-world/

    To illustrate the point, Siberia's fastest growth industry over the last couple of years has been the export to China of mammoth ivory - which had been buried under permafrost for tens of thousands of years.
    It’s a 100 year project (credibly) to turn it around.

    I just don’t see it as being credible the West can “stop” before 2050-2060 and probably 2080-2090 for the developing world. Anything more aggressive (which won’t happen) and we’d be facing societal collapse and insurrection, and probably even more deaths.

    Therefore, we are going to have to take an awful lot of nasty shit on the chin, and mitigate it.
    I don't know if it's been reported here, but on Sunday the Uk generated over 40% of its electricity from wind. Add in solar and hydro and you get close to 50%. Once you take on board the 20-odd percent from nuclear, well over 70% of UK energy came from non-carbon sources. The growth in renewables has been frankly aatonishing and there is no reason to think that this growth will abate. Granted, Sunday is a low-demand day, but pretty encouraging, no?
    Agreed. It's a shame people won't accept it but the UK is doing a fantastic world beating job at switching away from carbon. And helping to develop clean affordable alternatives to generate energy.

    If we produced more in this country and flew in less our carbon emissions might go up a bit or take longer to come down to zero but our net contribution to global carbon would be an improvement.

    How much carbon is generated in China, pumped into the atmosphere then the output of it flown here generating more carbon?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,123
    edited December 2019
    RobD said:

    FYI for those interested in my live data scraping for the big night. In addition to spreadsheet, I intend to have the following two charts be live updated...

    One showing current seat results vs what YouGov MRP predicted for those seats, and the second current result + what YouGov predicts for remaining undeclared seats (ordered in estimated declaration time).

    Hopefully, we should see quite quickly how well YouGov MRP is doing this time and what that means for the final result.



    Wonderful! One thing I really want to see is a model that updates with every declaration, so you can watch the seat projection change, and the confidence interval get smaller, as the night goes on.
    I think I can do that too....As effectively where the dotted lines end up are the "prediction", because it is actual result plus MRP for whats left.

    I do all this nonsense and we will probably find MRP is absolute garbage!!!
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    Times and Guardian now covering the Ashworth story.

    Difficult for his mate, you dont want to ruin a friendship but National Security is very important.
  • MangoMango Posts: 1,019

    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    Relatively speaking to the 2017 campaign it was this evening David Herdson posted that update.

    Ooh exciting. I shall get some whisky and ice ready. Though do I remember that David is no longer politically active because of #proroguegate?

    Who will be the 2019 equivalent? MarqueeMark saying that Totnes is going yellow after all? Or the Horse person throwing in the towel?
    Yup David and myself are hors de combat.
    It would be interesting to read more of a personal piece from either of you on what it's been like to go from being so politically engaged that you were canvassers to sitting on the sidelines of an election. Because if we are honest being a canvasser is a pretty fringe activity.

    Will your heart be a flutter at 9.59 for any reason other than your betfair account? Or will you be at the local Odeon watching Cats?
    It is always for the betting.

    It is a pity that they can’t both lose.

    If Corbyn had said what Johnson said yesterday about migrants but about the Jews he would have been rightly condemned.

    Both leaders are turning their parties into sewers.

    I look at the Tory manifesto pledge to weaken the judiciary and think eventually one day a Corbynite will win and the moment we need a strong judiciary to stop the unlawful seizure of assets they’ll have been castrated by a cheering Tory party.
    100% agree.

    The best result is a Hung Parliament which Corbyn can resign and we can have a Government with a new face of Labour that with LDs, SNP, Plaid and Greens, a decent percentage of the population has voted for. Then we can have electoral reform and actually have a working democracy again.

    A Hung Parliament is literally the best outcome for PR.
    One should always expect Labour betrayal though.

    A benevolent artificial super intelligence taking over the world is a much more likely route to positive political change in the UK.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Andy_JS said:

    My view is that I don't think it's right to record a private conversation and then make it public.

    I agree, why the hell was he recording it in the first place?

    To me it seems like a drunken conversation I've had loads of times where I've ranted and raved about how shit Corbyn is
    But you are not I imagine the Shadow Secretary of State for Health.

    Both leaders are people about whom their close colleagues have serious reservations. That is something which the voters ought to be aware of.
    I think recording conversations with your friends and then selectively leaking them to the press is pretty low. I wouldn't do that to my friends.
    I agree. I wouldn’t do that to my friends.

    Nonetheless is this what Ashworth thinks about Corbyn? It is pretty worrying for a potential Labour Cabinet Minister to be saying, apparently, that the Civil Service will do whatever's necessary to protect the country from the PM because the latter’s a security risk.

    And if so that is something voters should know.
    Yes they bloody shoud know

    Mind you, they should have been aware of that already
  • Mango said:

    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    Relatively speaking to the 2017 campaign it was this evening David Herdson posted that update.

    Ooh exciting. I shall get some whisky and ice ready. Though do I remember that David is no longer politically active because of #proroguegate?

    Who will be the 2019 equivalent? MarqueeMark saying that Totnes is going yellow after all? Or the Horse person throwing in the towel?
    Yup David and myself are hors de combat.
    It would be interesting to read more of a personal piece from either of you on what it's been like to go from being so politically engaged that you were canvassers to sitting on the sidelines of an election. Because if we are honest being a canvasser is a pretty fringe activity.

    Will your heart be a flutter at 9.59 for any reason other than your betfair account? Or will you be at the local Odeon watching Cats?
    It is always for the betting.

    It is a pity that they can’t both lose.

    If Corbyn had said what Johnson said yesterday about migrants but about the Jews he would have been rightly condemned.

    Both leaders are turning their parties into sewers.

    I look at the Tory manifesto pledge to weaken the judiciary and think eventually one day a Corbynite will win and the moment we need a strong judiciary to stop the unlawful seizure of assets they’ll have been castrated by a cheering Tory party.
    100% agree.

    The best result is a Hung Parliament which Corbyn can resign and we can have a Government with a new face of Labour that with LDs, SNP, Plaid and Greens, a decent percentage of the population has voted for. Then we can have electoral reform and actually have a working democracy again.

    A Hung Parliament is literally the best outcome for PR.
    One should always expect Labour betrayal though.

    A benevolent artificial super intelligence taking over the world is a much more likely route to positive political change in the UK.
    In this case though, Labour is going to have literally no power to do anything. But the LDs and SNP will have a lot. If they want to stop Labour and the Tories for good, they'll force PR.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,837
    Stocky said:

    Not a good look for Jonathan Ainsworth on Victoria on BBC

    In fact a car crash

    You would say that wouldn't you
    Only when it is true
    Only in your selectively true world, stop pretending you're impartial
    I am not impartial when it comes to Corbyn
    A lot of focus always goes on Corbyn, but let`s remember who is behind him: McDonnell, Abbott, Pidcock, RLB, Burgon, Butler etc etc. They`ve all got to go in my opinion.

    How diferrent the Lab front bench would look with Cooper, Benn, Miliband, Kinnock, Nandy, Flint ...
    Well, quite. [Pauses for brief primal scream in frustration]. But Labour has always had its quota of fringe loonies. Why, in retrospect, did I not vote Lab in 2015? It wasn't because of Ed Miliband's inability to eat a sandwich. It's because I was horrified by the nutters behind him, in yhe PLP and the party at large. Just as many Labour votets are horrified by the likes of Mark Francois.
    If a party could clean out its loonies it would become much more attractive. But would have no activist base.
    I don't really have a solution to this.
  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900

    FYI for those interested in my live data scraping for the big night. In addition to spreadsheet, I intend to have the following two charts be live updated...

    Thanks in advance, FU.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    Let's hope somebody leaks the full tape because right now we're getting selective quoting and audio

    But recording your neighbours is OK?
    There was a case for doing that; seemed like a full-blown case of assault was brewing. Giving it to the Press; well Johnson's a public figure.
    LOL - so ok if target a tory?

  • All voices should be welcome on PB and a little less shooting the messenger wouldn't go amiss. Tempers may be high but if you have nothing nice to say draw a deep breath and move on.

    Amen. One of the great strengths of PB.com is the diversity of opinions and perspectives. While the truth may be absolute, our perception of it is relative. If there are posters whose posts you find repetitive or tedious (a particular bugbear, "How could anyone thinking of voting for Johnson/Corbyn possibly live with themselves when X, Y, Z"scroll past them - don't waste your time and theirs telling them to post elsewhere.
  • It's so evidently a wind up on the phone call, I can't believe anyone actually thinks Ashworth is being serious, he literally laughs on the phone.

    And why hide the voice of the person he was talking to?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    RobD said:

    FYI for those interested in my live data scraping for the big night. In addition to spreadsheet, I intend to have the following two charts be live updated...

    One showing current seat results vs what YouGov MRP predicted for those seats, and the second current result + what YouGov predicts for remaining undeclared seats (ordered in estimated declaration time).

    Hopefully, we should see quite quickly how well YouGov MRP is doing this time and what that means for the final result.



    Wonderful! One thing I really want to see is a model that updates with every declaration, so you can watch the seat projection change, and the confidence interval get smaller, as the night goes on.
    I think I can do that too....As effectively where the dotted lines end up are the "prediction", because it is actual result plus MRP for whats left.

    I do all this nonsense and we will probably find MRP is absolute garbage!!!
    That’s half what I want (not good enough, Mr Urquhart!), as the model doesn’t react to the results. :p
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,361

    Regardless of what you think of the Yoon to Nat narrative, this is a devastatingly accurate description of the SCon campaign. The SCons will be an interesting experiment in how long a party (sub branch) can operate without policies, ideas or aspirations.

    'Step forward the Conservative and Unionist Party. Campaign leaflets from the SNP and Conservative candidates arrived recently at our house near Loch Ness. The SNP’s Drew Hendry spelt out what he is doing at present and intends to do if elected. On the other hand, the Conservative candidate, Fiona Fawcett, told me only that she doesn’t want another referendum and — for that reason alone — I should give her my vote.

    Not a word on any national, regional or local policy. Not a word on Brexit. Not a word on what she personally stands for. I tweeted to point out the contrast and within two hours Dr Fawcett had blocked me. One look at her website does reveal what her priorities would be if elected, and shows that she has an admirable CV in both a professional and a voluntary capacity. I have no animosity towards her. However, I do have lots of questions for Dr Fawcett and other Scottish Tories, despite their keenness to avoid communicating with me. They are doing this all over Scotland. Do they realise that campaign literature of the sort she sent is an insult to our intelligence? Do they think avoiding talking about Brexit just makes it go away? Are they really comfortable campaigning for a man who lies as easily as he breathes, and whose idea of scrutiny is talking to the camera without an interviewer?'

    https://tinyurl.com/tcgz2mj

    I was told on here they were surging and going to do great things , win more seats etc. Where is RobD, Cadboil and Hyfud. Rampers all.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    Betfair Tory maj at 1.36. Let`s see if this changes after MRP poll.

    Out this evening I think?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    Stocky said:

    Betfair Tory maj at 1.36. Let`s see if this changes after MRP poll.

    Out this evening I think?

    10pm, I think?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,361
    Andy_JS said:

    Apparently 40 is the age when people change from being more likely to vote Labour to being more likely to vote Conservative, compared to 47 at the last election. (Maybe that figure has changed slightly as a result of the election campaign).

    Just public getting dimmer
  • Brom said:

    Times and Guardian now covering the Ashworth story.

    Difficult for his mate, you dont want to ruin a friendship but National Security is very important.

    And BBC news now
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,560
    Floater said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Andy_JS said:

    My view is that I don't think it's right to record a private conversation and then make it public.

    I agree, why the hell was he recording it in the first place?

    To me it seems like a drunken conversation I've had loads of times where I've ranted and raved about how shit Corbyn is
    But you are not I imagine the Shadow Secretary of State for Health.

    Both leaders are people about whom their close colleagues have serious reservations. That is something which the voters ought to be aware of.
    I think recording conversations with your friends and then selectively leaking them to the press is pretty low. I wouldn't do that to my friends.
    I agree. I wouldn’t do that to my friends.

    Nonetheless is this what Ashworth thinks about Corbyn? It is pretty worrying for a potential Labour Cabinet Minister to be saying, apparently, that the Civil Service will do whatever's necessary to protect the country from the PM because the latter’s a security risk.

    And if so that is something voters should know.
    Yes they bloody shoud know

    Mind you, they should have been aware of that already
    In the scales of national significance it is a bit higher than C4's lengthy shock revelation last night that the Brexit party in Hartlepool includes a couple of disgusting layabout racist losers.

  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Like the man says

    "Labour’s own Shadow Cabinet Health Minister hopes they lose and they can get rid of Jeremy Corbyn. In the event that Corbyn gets into Downing Street, he hopes the Civil Service machine would be able to safeguard national security from Prime Minister Corbyn. Has there ever been a situation where Labour frontbenchers hope their party loses because their leader is a risk to national security?"

    Incendiary

  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,361
    Stocky said:

    Not a good look for Jonathan Ainsworth on Victoria on BBC

    In fact a car crash

    You would say that wouldn't you
    Only when it is true
    Only in your selectively true world, stop pretending you're impartial
    I am not impartial when it comes to Corbyn
    A lot of focus always goes on Corbyn, but let`s remember who is behind him: McDonnell, Abbott, Pidcock, RLB, Burgon, Butler etc etc. They`ve all got to go in my opinion.

    How diferrent the Lab front bench would look with Cooper, Benn, Miliband, Kinnock, Nandy, Flint ...
    There are a good few donkeys in your second list
  • speybay said:

    https://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/1204344720702541825

    Bloody hell, this is naive to the extreme. Although would be interesting to hear what the Tory MP said - I notice that hasn't been released, probably because it's just as bad about Johnson.

    Do you have a day job? Seriously!

    It would be good to hear someone else's view occasionally rather than your relentless astro-turfing..
    Why don't you fuck off?
    That is not acceptable to any poster
    No you know what, I don't give a toss anymore. I've tried to be pleasant to people here and they just throw it back in my face. To be fair to you you've always been pleasant but others haven't and it's right they get called out for it.
    There are ways of doing it
    And I've tried being pleasant and people don't respect me, so why should I respect them?

    Like I said, you've always been pleasant to me so I have treated you in the same way - but others have not. And I am not going to change what I do or so, thank you.
    If I were you I’d take a break from the site for a few hours.
  • I am sure many are disappointed that I will stay around post the election
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    Floater said:

    Like the man says

    "Labour’s own Shadow Cabinet Health Minister hopes they lose and they can get rid of Jeremy Corbyn. In the event that Corbyn gets into Downing Street, he hopes the Civil Service machine would be able to safeguard national security from Prime Minister Corbyn. Has there ever been a situation where Labour frontbenchers hope their party loses because their leader is a risk to national security?"

    Incendiary

    Guido lie or Daily Mail lie?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,361

    speybay said:

    https://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/1204344720702541825

    Bloody hell, this is naive to the extreme. Although would be interesting to hear what the Tory MP said - I notice that hasn't been released, probably because it's just as bad about Johnson.

    Do you have a day job? Seriously!

    It would be good to hear someone else's view occasionally rather than your relentless astro-turfing..
    Why don't you fuck off?
    That is not acceptable to any poster
    No you know what, I don't give a toss anymore. I've tried to be pleasant to people here and they just throw it back in my face. To be fair to you you've always been pleasant but others haven't and it's right they get called out for it.
    There are ways of doing it
    And I've tried being pleasant and people don't respect me, so why should I respect them?

    Like I said, you've always been pleasant to me so I have treated you in the same way - but others have not. And I am not going to change what I do or so, thank you.
    Too right , if they hand it out they should expect it back and not be the snowflakes we see on here. They don't like it though.

  • Hilarious,the idiot Ashworth should just put his hands up instead of trying to lie his way out of it.
  • Cookie said:

    Nigelb said:

    This looks pretty bloody serious to me.

    Australia and Canada seem to be feeling the effects of climate change far worse than we do, or even NZ.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-50722650

    The most dramatic temperature changes have been in the Arctic.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2019/national/climate-environment/climate-change-world/

    To illustrate the point, Siberia's fastest growth industry over the last couple of years has been the export to China of mammoth ivory - which had been buried under permafrost for tens of thousands of years.
    It’s a 100 year project (credibly) to turn it around.

    I just don’t see it as being credible the West can “stop” before 2050-2060 and probably 2080-2090 for the developing world. Anything more aggressive (which won’t happen) and we’d be facing societal collapse and insurrection, and probably even more deaths.

    Therefore, we are going to have to take an awful lot of nasty shit on the chin, and mitigate it.
    I don't know if it's been reported here, but on Sunday the Uk generated over 40% of its electricity from wind. Add in solar and hydro and you get close to 50%. Once you take on board the 20-odd percent from nuclear, well over 70% of UK energy came from non-carbon sources. The growth in renewables has been frankly aatonishing and there is no reason to think that this growth will abate. Granted, Sunday is a low-demand day, but pretty encouraging, no?
    Very encouraging, but it will take 20-30 years to fully decarbonise transport and residential property.

    Energy production is a big part of it but only part of it.
  • ralphmalphralphmalph Posts: 2,201

    It's so evidently a wind up on the phone call, I can't believe anyone actually thinks Ashworth is being serious, he literally laughs on the phone.

    And why hide the voice of the person he was talking to?

    Many a true word said in jest.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    I am sure many are disappointed that I will stay around post the election

    It’ll be far less heated, certainly. PB is dead after elections.
  • https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1202670854410297344

    Somebody asked me earlier - 7M views on this one
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    I am sure many are disappointed that I will stay around post the election

    Could not care less either way

    You destroyed your own credibility a while back
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    edited December 2019
    Can anyone tell me how many views the Ashworth story has got so far?

    :p
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    Stocky said:

    Betfair Tory maj at 1.36. Let`s see if this changes after MRP poll.

    Out this evening I think?

    It will change could tighten to 1.25 or lengthen to 1.5 methinks is the range.
  • If you're prepared to be a decent human being and converse with me nicely then you'll have respect, be it Tory, Lib Dem, Labour, whoever.

    If you're going to act like a twat, I'm going to call you out for it. Deal with it.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,361
    speybay said:

    speybay said:

    https://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/1204344720702541825

    Bloody hell, this is naive to the extreme. Although would be interesting to hear what the Tory MP said - I notice that hasn't been released, probably because it's just as bad about Johnson.

    Do you have a day job? Seriously!

    It would be good to hear someone else's view occasionally rather than your relentless astro-turfing..
    Why don't you fuck off?
    I rather hope you might.

    So dull.
    Tories looking to close down opinions that don't fit their twisted ideals I see.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    edited December 2019

    I am sure many are disappointed that I will stay around post the election

    Why? What business is it of theirs? The only people whose opinion matters is Mike, Robert and (possibly) TSE. In fact, historically, posters telling others to "F*** off" usually get a ban themselves.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    @CorrectHorseBattery i'd be real careful about using that kind of language.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,471
    Floater said:

    Let's hope somebody leaks the full tape because right now we're getting selective quoting and audio

    But recording your neighbours is OK?
    There was a case for doing that; seemed like a full-blown case of assault was brewing. Giving it to the Press; well Johnson's a public figure.
    LOL - so ok if target a tory?

    Yes....... and if Lab, LD, SNP or whatever.
  • HaroldOHaroldO Posts: 1,185

    Floater said:

    Like the man says

    "Labour’s own Shadow Cabinet Health Minister hopes they lose and they can get rid of Jeremy Corbyn. In the event that Corbyn gets into Downing Street, he hopes the Civil Service machine would be able to safeguard national security from Prime Minister Corbyn. Has there ever been a situation where Labour frontbenchers hope their party loses because their leader is a risk to national security?"

    Incendiary

    Guido lie or Daily Mail lie?
    It's a recording iirc.
  • Leaflet count: one each from Labour and Conservatives through the post. Both candidates were schooled locally, and probably privately since the schools are coyly not named. Maybe they were classmates.

    Both the red and blue candidates detail their local priorities: crime, broadband, children and "our" NHS on the one hand; homes, "our" NHS, crime and children on the other.

    It is lucky the leaflets come in different colours or you could hardly tell them apart.
  • brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    edited December 2019
    RobD said:

    Can anyone tell me how many views the Ashworth story has got so far?

    :p

    It's one of those existential questions isn't it? How many views does a story get if there's no ramper around to see it?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    Brom said:

    Times and Guardian now covering the Ashworth story.

    Difficult for his mate, you dont want to ruin a friendship but National Security is very important.

    Meanwhile we all know Theresa May thinks the same about Boris
  • If I'm not even allowed to call out people for being nasty, trolling or just being downright rude then what's the point? You'll just end up with more of an echo chamber than I am sure you want.

    I am happy to apologise for the bad language as I'm sure it's against the rules. But I will not apologise for calling people out and being rude to me and getting away with it repeatedly. I was prepared to let it slide but no longer.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    RobD said:

    @CorrectHorseBattery i'd be real careful about using that kind of language.

    I'm not going to report him

    Just a frustrated trot who has been caught out
  • XtrainXtrain Posts: 341
    John Ashworth is basically telling Labour voters to hold their noses and vote Tory for one time only.
  • FYI for those interested in my live data scraping for the big night. In addition to spreadsheet, I intend to have the following two charts be live updated...

    One showing current seat results vs what YouGov MRP predicted for those seats, and the current result (solid line) + what YouGov predicts for remaining undeclared seats* (dotted line)

    *ordered in estimated declaration time

    Hopefully, we should see quite quickly how well YouGov MRP is doing this time and what that means for the final result.



    Thank you for doing this. I wouldn’t know where to begin and this looks like by far the most interesting and useful way of following the results.
  • ‪The Ashworth tape shows two things:‬
    ‪1. Labour knows it will lose.‬
    ‪2. The Tories will pretend to be your friend but will then shit all over you when it suits them. That makes them entirely untrustworthy.‬
    ‪It’s good for voters to know both things.‬
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    malcolmg said:

    speybay said:

    speybay said:

    https://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/1204344720702541825

    Bloody hell, this is naive to the extreme. Although would be interesting to hear what the Tory MP said - I notice that hasn't been released, probably because it's just as bad about Johnson.

    Do you have a day job? Seriously!

    It would be good to hear someone else's view occasionally rather than your relentless astro-turfing..
    Why don't you fuck off?
    I rather hope you might.

    So dull.
    Tories looking to close down opinions that don't fit their twisted ideals I see.
    Yep.

    The misinformation campaign is on a scale about 1000x anything seen before. Mostly, but by no means exclusively, on the Right.

    Anyone decent ought to despair at this. We've entered Trump Twilight.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    GE result = inverse of the invective
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,751

    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    Relatively speaking to the 2017 campaign it was this evening David Herdson posted that update.

    Ooh exciting. I shall get some whisky and ice ready. Though do I remember that David is no longer politically active because of #proroguegate?

    Who will be the 2019 equivalent? MarqueeMark saying that Totnes is going yellow after all? Or the Horse person throwing in the towel?
    Yup David and myself are hors de combat.
    It would be interesting to read more of a personal piece from either of you on what it's been like to go from being so politically engaged that you were canvassers to sitting on the sidelines of an election. Because if we are honest being a canvasser is a pretty fringe activity.

    Will your heart be a flutter at 9.59 for any reason other than your betfair account? Or will you be at the local Odeon watching Cats?
    It is always for the betting.

    It is a pity that they can’t both lose.

    If Corbyn had said what Johnson said yesterday about migrants but about the Jews he would have been rightly condemned.

    Both leaders are turning their parties into sewers.

    I look at the Tory manifesto pledge to weaken the judiciary and think eventually one day a Corbynite will win and the moment we need a strong judiciary to stop the unlawful seizure of assets they’ll have been castrated by a cheering Tory party.
    It is for sure an irony that it’s the ECJ that acts as the ultimate backdrop against the more manic bits of Corbynism. But that is I guess what democracy means.

    My personal view is that as with many policy areas, Blair’s reforms of the judiciary were half cocked / complete. I also wouldn’t say no to a written constitution post Brexit to act as a firmer safe guard but the reality is that should be done with consensus, and there ain’t a lot of that around at the moment.

    Best of luck with your betting and enjoy the big night (ho ho ho to one and all). I am sufficiently exposed to UK political risk already without signing up with Shadsy. As ever I look forward to seeing the views of all here as the action unfolds (my first time as a non lurker since Obama 2008).
  • Floater said:

    I am sure many are disappointed that I will stay around post the election

    Could not care less either way

    You destroyed your own credibility a while back
    Fuck off you cunt
    Do you think that improves your standing among fellow posters?
    People have already made up their minds, I'm either a brainwashed communist trot liar or a Corbyn PR bot.

    It doesn't matter anymore, I am simply not prepared to let people be nasty to me and let them get away with it.

    I couldn't give a toss what others think about me.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    RobD said:

    @CorrectHorseBattery i'd be real careful about using that kind of language.

    Though a well-known tory poster did use exactly that language to me, albeit with one * replacing a letter.

    It's a sad election this one. Really sad.
  • KentRisingKentRising Posts: 2,917
    It's all getting a bit Guido Fawkes comment section on here. Can the administrators step in and do some cleaning up, please? A bit like the broken windows theory, things can quickly deteriorate.

    On the Ashworth thing, I think that's more of a bubble story, won't have any cut-through.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    ‪The Ashworth tape shows two things:‬
    ‪1. Labour knows it will lose.‬
    ‪2. The Tories will pretend to be your friend but will then shit all over you when it suits them. That makes them entirely untrustworthy.‬
    ‪It’s good for voters to know both things.‬

    Lets not pretend that other parties will not use people and spit them out

    Do I really need to bring up the last Labour government?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,361
    andy3664 said:

    Ashworth story shows you should never trust a Tory.

    Is there anyone on the planet who did not already know that.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676

    FYI for those interested in my live data scraping for the big night. In addition to spreadsheet, I intend to have the following two charts be live updated...

    One showing current seat results vs what YouGov MRP predicted for those seats, and the current result (solid line) + what YouGov predicts for remaining undeclared seats* (dotted line)

    *ordered in estimated declaration time

    Hopefully, we should see quite quickly how well YouGov MRP is doing this time and what that means for the final result.



    Thank you for doing this. I wouldn’t know where to begin and this looks like by far the most interesting and useful way of following the results.
    Indeed.

    We are very fortunate to have you.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,361

    If I'm not even allowed to call out people for being nasty, trolling or just being downright rude then what's the point? You'll just end up with more of an echo chamber than I am sure you want.

    I am happy to apologise for the bad language as I'm sure it's against the rules. But I will not apologise for calling people out and being rude to me and getting away with it repeatedly. I was prepared to let it slide but no longer.

    Good on you, take mince from no one.
  • RobD said:

    RobD said:

    FYI for those interested in my live data scraping for the big night. In addition to spreadsheet, I intend to have the following two charts be live updated...

    One showing current seat results vs what YouGov MRP predicted for those seats, and the second current result + what YouGov predicts for remaining undeclared seats (ordered in estimated declaration time).

    Hopefully, we should see quite quickly how well YouGov MRP is doing this time and what that means for the final result.



    Wonderful! One thing I really want to see is a model that updates with every declaration, so you can watch the seat projection change, and the confidence interval get smaller, as the night goes on.
    I think I can do that too....As effectively where the dotted lines end up are the "prediction", because it is actual result plus MRP for whats left.

    I do all this nonsense and we will probably find MRP is absolute garbage!!!
    That’s half what I want (not good enough, Mr Urquhart!), as the model doesn’t react to the results. :p
    To be fair, as ever with stats and science, this will be just as interesting and useful (maybe more so) if the MRP is off because we might be able to spot something systemic and act accordingly.
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789

    malcolmg said:

    speybay said:

    speybay said:

    https://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/1204344720702541825

    Bloody hell, this is naive to the extreme. Although would be interesting to hear what the Tory MP said - I notice that hasn't been released, probably because it's just as bad about Johnson.

    Do you have a day job? Seriously!

    It would be good to hear someone else's view occasionally rather than your relentless astro-turfing..
    Why don't you fuck off?
    I rather hope you might.

    So dull.
    Tories looking to close down opinions that don't fit their twisted ideals I see.
    Yep.

    The misinformation campaign is on a scale about 1000x anything seen before. Mostly, but by no means exclusively, on the Right.

    Anyone decent ought to despair at this. We've entered Trump Twilight.
    How many hours are there to save the NHS this time?
This discussion has been closed.