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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Johnson’s taking a big gamble avoiding Andrew Neil

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  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269

    Cyclefree said:

    Charles said:

    kle4 said:

    Johnson is a liar and he is a coward. The election campaign has demonstrated that. No-one can say they have not been warned.

    He's also arrogant, don't forget that.
    Yes, a liar, a coward, arrogant AND an adulterer....don't forget that.
    The two items from Johnson's past which would have killed any other politician's career are the financial issues surrounding Ms Arcuri and most importantly the Darius Guppy affair which is pretty much consigned to history.

    If I had conspired with a friend to assault a Sun journalist I would have likely as not been charged and convicted of 'conspiracy'. It hasn't hindered Johnson's ascent of the greasy pole one iota.

    Running away from his responsibilities as a father and cheating on his wife as she underwent treatment for cancer would usually be dealbreakers, too.

    Why do you always mention the cancer thing?

    It doesn’t make his cheating any worse
    Hadn’t he already left his wife by then?
    Does that make his behaviour acceptable then?
    I was merely correcting what I think is a factual inaccuracy. Personally, I could not care less about his private life. There is quite enough to criticise in his public life.

    Marina was Boris’s second wife. He married her when she was very heavily pregnant with their first child barely a week or so after getting a divorce from his first. This may sound harsh but if you commit adultery with a man and then marry him, you should not be entirely surprised that he might repeat his adulterous behaviour to you.

    Of all the things which render Boris unfit to be PM, this is way down the list IMO.
  • JasonJason Posts: 1,614

    The Telegraph have officially declared Corbyn an anti-Semite. They hid that well

    I think Mr Corbyn has done that all by himself CHB.
  • Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    It's like the revoke petition all over again.

    The LDs will make promising to being interviewed by Andrew Neil their core policy as a result?
    (They do have a policy about mandating leaders' debates already)
    Why bother having a policy to mandate debates if TV channels have already done it?
    I assume it means if invited you have to go? Now you mention it I'm not sure how it would work.
    geoffw said:

    MaxPB said:

    RobD said:

    Whoever made that chart going back in time, Bravo!
    Almost as good as a Lib Dodgy bar chart?
    It's just a convention that time goes from left to right. Open your eyes to a new perspective!
    Are you a fan of reversed orientation maps as well? :)

    You’ve just blown my mind.
    If you like maps, and who doesn't!, check out this twitter account:

    https://twitter.com/simongerman600/status/1201244675186839554?s=20
    Shit, climate change is worse than I thought.

    *paging Kevin Costner*

    "You wanna see a Tory majority? You really wanna see it? I'll take you there."
  • Off topic, it looks to me like the Evening Standard tonight (George) is starting to lean towards Boris.

    I note he also says he wants to heal the nation and understands the need to reach out to all those who voted Remain.

    Interesting.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,207

    speedy2 said:

    kle4 said:

    One of the areas that flattered to deceive last time IIRC. Do you believe that poll?
    The Labour vote in Wrexham is down over 40% in two and a half years......

    That's a blood-bath in a blood-bank.
    True, and due to shift in the nature and geography of the Labour membership, working class Labour should become weaker and weaker in exchange for it becoming stronger among "limousine liberals" and "champagne socialists" like in America.
    But there are far fewer ultra rich people in Europe and the UK in order to form an electoral base.

    Also neoliberalism based on a coalition of poor immigrants and the rich is unstable because the immigrants might ask for a raise in pay.
    Immigration has become a significant factor in Wrexham, but because no-one is allowed to talk about it the effects have been hidden until now.
    What other town have a similar untalked-about immigration issue? Wales? England? Are they also going to see two in five of Labour's 2017 voters go walkabout?
  • melcf said:

    Define Outsourcing:
    So Boris Ali Kemal Bey Johnson, Priti Patel, Sajid Javid and Aberdeen born Michael Gove (with no father's name on birth certificate ) are lined up to save England. From Europe and the hordes of marauding immigrants, piccanninnies, watermelon smiles and letter boxes.
    Sorry, I need a drink.

    Michael Gove was born in Edinburgh and adopted by a couple from Aberdeen, please get it correct!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,580
    IshmaelZ said:

    Tories seem to be very quick to dismiss something we know for a fact they'd be going on about if this was Corbyn

    Maybe, but if Neil had done a similar fisk on Corbyn for not turning up (I know he did) we wouldn’t have been able to move on this board without you proclaiming how much of a ‘Tory’ he is.

    Perhaps we can all just agree he’s a tough and fair investigative journalist?
    I think at the time I said Corbyn's interview was a car crash. Neil is a great interviewer and a great journalist. One of the few I do respect.
    He is a bullying windbag. Corbyn was unacceptably bullied. As an interviewer your only job is to ascertain the facts. Will Corbyn apologise over anti-Semitism? No. Important question, so you get to ask it again for absolute clarity. Then you move on, and if you don't, further repetition of the same question is actually just a cover for hectoring, browbeating and grandstanding. Not that I object in Corbyn's case, but let's not accept Neil at his own valuation.
    He. was. not. bullied.

    No matter if it was a badly done interview, or he was hectored unacceptably, the Leader of the Opposition, or the Prime Minister, facing that while asking to become/remain the most powerful person in the country, is not being bullied.

    Maybe I'm oversensitive about a trivial word choice, but it really bothers me when people claim politicians being asked questions they don't like, with a browbeating manner, is akin to being bullied.
  • 10 o clock news replaying the AN clip

    Andrew Neil may be good, but he is not God!
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    melcf said:

    andy3664 said:

    Re Wrexham. The Tory candidate failed to turn up for the election debate. Taking a leaf from the Johnson playbook.

    She also refused to print leaflets in Welsh. When asked, sort of replied 'Can't be bothered' To every problem, such as homeless, NHS, transport etc, her oven ready reply was Brexit.
    I don't mind labour losing in the North. However, if they vote Tories, after 9.5 years of austerity shafting, then even God can't save them
    Just to confirm, you think all Labour party leaflets in Wales are printed in Welsh and English?

    Because, if you believe that, it can be quickly disproved.
  • kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    So many reasons why the cockiness of tories on here is leaving me bemused, although I suspect one of them is psychological. If you tell yourself something is true enough times then it must be.

    I've several reasons why I think this is not going the way you seem to think it is. Here's just one, for now.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/dec/05/polls-election-ethnic-minority-voters-black-asian-scottish-lib-dem?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Tweet

    Considering consistent 9-10 point leads, some of the Tories are the very opposite of cocky!
    The important word there is some. Some are acting like they've already won.
    Some is indeed the important word, and it was missing from the original posted point!
    I am not and still think it cannot be taken for granted
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,471
    edited December 2019

    Off topic, it looks to me like the Evening Standard tonight (George) is starting to lean towards Boris.

    I note he also says he wants to heal the nation and understands the need to reach out to all those who voted Remain.

    Interesting.

    Who said he wanted to heal the nation? Boris or George?. Either way an apology would be nice for the mess they caused.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 27,995
    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Charles said:

    kle4 said:

    Johnson is a liar and he is a coward. The election campaign has demonstrated that. No-one can say they have not been warned.

    He's also arrogant, don't forget that.
    Yes, a liar, a coward, arrogant AND an adulterer....don't forget that.
    The two items from Johnson's past which would have killed any other politician's career are the financial issues surrounding Ms Arcuri and most importantly the Darius Guppy affair which is pretty much consigned to history.

    If I had conspired with a friend to assault a Sun journalist I would have likely as not been charged and convicted of 'conspiracy'. It hasn't hindered Johnson's ascent of the greasy pole one iota.

    Running away from his responsibilities as a father and cheating on his wife as she underwent treatment for cancer would usually be dealbreakers, too.

    Why do you always mention the cancer thing?

    It doesn’t make his cheating any worse
    Hadn’t he already left his wife by then?
    Does that make his behaviour acceptable then?
    I was merely correcting what I think is a factual inaccuracy. Personally, I could not care less about his private life. There is quite enough to criticise in his public life.

    Marina was Boris’s second wife. He married her when she was very heavily pregnant with their first child barely a week or so after getting a divorce from his first. This may sound harsh but if you commit adultery with a man and then marry him, you should not be entirely surprised that he might repeat his adulterous behaviour to you.

    Of all the things which render Boris unfit to be PM, this is way down the list IMO.
    I would agree with every word you have written in that statement.
  • Off topic, it looks to me like the Evening Standard tonight (George) is starting to lean towards Boris.

    I note he also says he wants to heal the nation and understands the need to reach out to all those who voted Remain.

    Interesting.

    The ES backed Boris for the leadership.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,207

    10 o clock news replaying the AN clip

    Well of course they are.....
  • Truth hurts and it will be all over the paper reviews
  • melcfmelcf Posts: 166
    BluerBlue said:

    Tories seem to be very quick to dismiss something we know for a fact they'd be going on about if this was Corbyn

    But Corbyn was torn a new orifice in his interview and it changed very little.
    Despite him coming across as a lying, clueless, tired, stupid, racist fool.
    Then if it's so easy Johnson should go on there - what's he got to hide?
    Nothing. Unlike Mr Corbyn and his cupboard of terrorist skeletons.

    The fact it’s winding-up Labour supporters something rotten is a source of extreme amusement for me.

    Nothing funnier than a foam-mouthed leftie 😂




    I know, right? Since they enjoy videos so much, maybe they'd like this one from today's Sun homepage:

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/politics/10491940/footage-shows-jeremy-corbyn-embracing-islamic-hate-preacher-who-was-jailed-over-hamas-fundraising/

    "JEREMY Corbyn was filmed embracing a hate preacher who said Israelis make bread with children’s blood.

    The Labour leader met Sheik Raed Salah and shook hands with him in 2012 after he smuggled himself into the UK to give a number of hate speeches.

    He was arrested on the orders of the then Home Secretary Theresa May, and although his deportation was blocked a judge ruled he used the blood libel - a trope which claims that Jews kill children to use their blood for religious rituals.

    Yet the new clip – which emerged today – showed Corbyn shaking the cleric’s hand at the same meeting where he called him an “honoured citizen” and invited him for tea in Parliament."

    Puts things into perspective, doesn't it?
    Yeah, right! Whilst tens of thousands of British born children are homeless this Christmas and many will go to sleep on an empty stomach tonight. Thanks to Tories austerity terrorism ideology for the last 9.5 years. In the 5th largest economy on this planet.
  • JasonJason Posts: 1,614
    kle4 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Tories seem to be very quick to dismiss something we know for a fact they'd be going on about if this was Corbyn

    Maybe, but if Neil had done a similar fisk on Corbyn for not turning up (I know he did) we wouldn’t have been able to move on this board without you proclaiming how much of a ‘Tory’ he is.

    Perhaps we can all just agree he’s a tough and fair investigative journalist?
    I think at the time I said Corbyn's interview was a car crash. Neil is a great interviewer and a great journalist. One of the few I do respect.
    He is a bullying windbag. Corbyn was unacceptably bullied. As an interviewer your only job is to ascertain the facts. Will Corbyn apologise over anti-Semitism? No. Important question, so you get to ask it again for absolute clarity. Then you move on, and if you don't, further repetition of the same question is actually just a cover for hectoring, browbeating and grandstanding. Not that I object in Corbyn's case, but let's not accept Neil at his own valuation.
    He. was. not. bullied.

    No matter if it was a badly done interview, or he was hectored unacceptably, the Leader of the Opposition, or the Prime Minister, facing that while asking to become/remain the most powerful person in the country, is not being bullied.

    Maybe I'm oversensitive about a trivial word choice, but it really bothers me when people claim politicians being asked questions they don't like, with a browbeating manner, is akin to being bullied.
    kle4 is correct. If you're playing the bullying card, you've lost the argument. This is a fella auditioning himself to be a potential PM, not the lead in a high school musical. The bullying charge is straight out of the Momentard play book.
  • speedy2speedy2 Posts: 981

    Off topic, it looks to me like the Evening Standard tonight (George) is starting to lean towards Boris.

    I note he also says he wants to heal the nation and understands the need to reach out to all those who voted Remain.

    Interesting.

    One might be cynical but he might have seen the Ipsos Mori poll voting intention figures and as any good newspaper editor he has to become a weathervane.
  • ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,503
    melcf said:

    BluerBlue said:

    Tories seem to be very quick to dismiss something we know for a fact they'd be going on about if this was Corbyn

    But Corbyn was torn a new orifice in his interview and it changed very little.
    Despite him coming across as a lying, clueless, tired, stupid, racist fool.
    Then if it's so easy Johnson should go on there - what's he got to hide?
    Nothing. Unlike Mr Corbyn and his cupboard of terrorist skeletons.

    The fact it’s winding-up Labour supporters something rotten is a source of extreme amusement for me.

    Nothing funnier than a foam-mouthed leftie 😂




    I know, right? Since they enjoy videos so much, maybe they'd like this one from today's Sun homepage:

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/politics/10491940/footage-shows-jeremy-corbyn-embracing-islamic-hate-preacher-who-was-jailed-over-hamas-fundraising/

    "JEREMY Corbyn was filmed embracing a hate preacher who said Israelis make bread with children’s blood.

    The Labour leader met Sheik Raed Salah and shook hands with him in 2012 after he smuggled himself into the UK to give a number of hate speeches.

    He was arrested on the orders of the then Home Secretary Theresa May, and although his deportation was blocked a judge ruled he used the blood libel - a trope which claims that Jews kill children to use their blood for religious rituals.

    Yet the new clip – which emerged today – showed Corbyn shaking the cleric’s hand at the same meeting where he called him an “honoured citizen” and invited him for tea in Parliament."

    Puts things into perspective, doesn't it?
    Yeah, right! Whilst tens of thousands of British born children are homeless this Christmas and many will go to sleep on an empty stomach tonight. Thanks to Tories austerity terrorism ideology for the last 9.5 years. In the 5th largest economy on this planet.
    You’re quite unhinged.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,732

    melcf said:

    BluerBlue said:

    Tories seem to be very quick to dismiss something we know for a fact they'd be going on about if this was Corbyn

    But Corbyn was torn a new orifice in his interview and it changed very little.
    Despite him coming across as a lying, clueless, tired, stupid, racist fool.
    Then if it's so easy Johnson should go on there - what's he got to hide?
    Nothing. Unlike Mr Corbyn and his cupboard of terrorist skeletons.

    The fact it’s winding-up Labour supporters something rotten is a source of extreme amusement for me.

    Nothing funnier than a foam-mouthed leftie 😂




    I know, right? Since they enjoy videos so much, maybe they'd like this one from today's Sun homepage:

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/politics/10491940/footage-shows-jeremy-corbyn-embracing-islamic-hate-preacher-who-was-jailed-over-hamas-fundraising/

    "JEREMY Corbyn was filmed embracing a hate preacher who said Israelis make bread with children’s blood.

    The Labour leader met Sheik Raed Salah and shook hands with him in 2012 after he smuggled himself into the UK to give a number of hate speeches.

    He was arrested on the orders of the then Home Secretary Theresa May, and although his deportation was blocked a judge ruled he used the blood libel - a trope which claims that Jews kill children to use their blood for religious rituals.

    Yet the new clip – which emerged today – showed Corbyn shaking the cleric’s hand at the same meeting where he called him an “honoured citizen” and invited him for tea in Parliament."

    Puts things into perspective, doesn't it?
    Yeah, right! Whilst tens of thousands of British born children are homeless this Christmas and many will go to sleep on an empty stomach tonight. Thanks to Tories austerity terrorism ideology for the last 9.5 years. In the 5th largest economy on this planet.
    You’re quite unhinged.
    Austerity terrorism? lol
  • KentRisingKentRising Posts: 2,917

    Off topic, it looks to me like the Evening Standard tonight (George) is starting to lean towards Boris.

    I note he also says he wants to heal the nation and understands the need to reach out to all those who voted Remain.

    Interesting.

    The ES backed Boris for the leadership.
    As the London paper I can't see it backing the Tories, but due to the antisemitism I can't see it backing Labour either. It may not take a position, or - god forbid - go for the Lib Dems.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,471

    Truth hurts and it will be all over the paper reviews
    Does the truth about your man Boris leading the news hurt you?
  • JasonJason Posts: 1,614
    edited December 2019

    Truth hurts and it will be all over the paper reviews
    The Empty Chair vs the Anti Semite.
  • ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,503

    Off topic, it looks to me like the Evening Standard tonight (George) is starting to lean towards Boris.

    I note he also says he wants to heal the nation and understands the need to reach out to all those who voted Remain.

    Interesting.

    The ES backed Boris for the leadership.
    As the London paper I can't see it backing the Tories, but due to the antisemitism I can't see it backing Labour either. It may not take a position, or - god forbid - go for the Lib Dems.
    IIRC it unhappily backed May in 2015?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,625

    Truth hurts and it will be all over the paper reviews
    Literally got nothing else

    Total barrel scraping
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,580
    Boris should agree to an interview...at 4am, with one day's notice. See if Neil is still sharp. Be funny if he still outdid Boris.
  • Jason said:

    The Telegraph have officially declared Corbyn an anti-Semite. They hid that well

    I think Mr Corbyn has done that all by himself CHB.
    And Mr Johnson has done the same. What a dreadful set of party leaders.
  • What decides elections: this - or an Andrew Neil strop?
    I get the point but this cover would be far more powerful if it was on the front of the Guardian, Independent or Mirror instead of just the Torygraph. Who buying a copy of that paper was going to vote Labour anyway?
    But it features on the media paper reviews which is not just watched by 'tories'
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,207
    Jonathan said:

    Truth hurts and it will be all over the paper reviews
    Does the truth about your man Boris leading the news hurt you?
    The truth about Boris is that he is Prime Minister.

    And is set to stay that way.
  • Jonathan said:

    Truth hurts and it will be all over the paper reviews
    Does the truth about your man Boris leading the news hurt you?
    The truth about Boris is that he is Prime Minister.

    And is set to stay that way.
    As long as you're happy supporting a racist, that's fine.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,580

    Truth hurts and it will be all over the paper reviews
    Literally got nothing else

    Total barrel scraping
    It was a pretty big news story. Obviously the Telegraph are going to make a lot of it, but are we really trying to say that was not a major thing in the news today and therefore fair game for a newspaper front page? Is it barrel scraping when the thing being scraped was all over the news?

    I mean, the Neil thing is newer and more fun, but a media figure asking for an interview is technically less of a news 'event'. Although 'BBC Blasts Boris' would be a better headline. I wonder if the Mirror will go with that.
  • If we were electing an Archbishop of Canterbury next week, the morals of Boris might be an issue but we are not. After all Blair lied to take us into an illegal war and Cornyn should have been hanged for High Treason for consorting with our enemies,the IRA in the 1980's
  • alb1onalb1on Posts: 698

    speedy2 said:

    kle4 said:

    One of the areas that flattered to deceive last time IIRC. Do you believe that poll?
    The Labour vote in Wrexham is down over 40% in two and a half years......

    That's a blood-bath in a blood-bank.
    True, and due to shift in the nature and geography of the Labour membership, working class Labour should become weaker and weaker in exchange for it becoming stronger among "limousine liberals" and "champagne socialists" like in America.
    But there are far fewer ultra rich people in Europe and the UK in order to form an electoral base.

    Also neoliberalism based on a coalition of poor immigrants and the rich is unstable because the immigrants might ask for a raise in pay.
    Immigration has become a significant factor in Wrexham, but because no-one is allowed to talk about it the effects have been hidden until now.
    What other town have a similar untalked-about immigration issue? Wales? England? Are they also going to see two in five of Labour's 2017 voters go walkabout?
    Immigration is a huge factor in Guildford. We rely on the Polish community for competent plumbers and electricians. :)
  • Jonathan said:

    Off topic, it looks to me like the Evening Standard tonight (George) is starting to lean towards Boris.

    I note he also says he wants to heal the nation and understands the need to reach out to all those who voted Remain.

    Interesting.

    Who said he wanted to heal the nation? Boris or George?. Either way an apology would be nice for the mess they caused.
    I suspect that pledge will last for about a trillionth of the time it takes the speed of light to cross the diameter of an electron once Boris wins his majority. The Remainers will be ground into the dust.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Jason said:

    kle4 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Tories seem to be very quick to dismiss something we know for a fact they'd be going on about if this was Corbyn

    Maybe, but if Neil had done a similar fisk on Corbyn for not turning up (I know he did) we wouldn’t have been able to move on this board without you proclaiming how much of a ‘Tory’ he is.

    Perhaps we can all just agree he’s a tough and fair investigative journalist?
    I think at the time I said Corbyn's interview was a car crash. Neil is a great interviewer and a great journalist. One of the few I do respect.
    He is a bullying windbag. Corbyn was unacceptably bullied. As an interviewer your only job is to ascertain the facts. Will Corbyn apologise over anti-Semitism? No. Important question, so you get to ask it again for absolute clarity. Then you move on, and if you don't, further repetition of the same question is actually just a cover for hectoring, browbeating and grandstanding. Not that I object in Corbyn's case, but let's not accept Neil at his own valuation.
    He. was. not. bullied.

    No matter if it was a badly done interview, or he was hectored unacceptably, the Leader of the Opposition, or the Prime Minister, facing that while asking to become/remain the most powerful person in the country, is not being bullied.

    Maybe I'm oversensitive about a trivial word choice, but it really bothers me when people claim politicians being asked questions they don't like, with a browbeating manner, is akin to being bullied.
    kle4 is correct. If you're playing the bullying card, you've lost the argument. This is a fella auditioning himself to be a potential PM, not the lead in a high school musical. The bullying charge is straight out of the Momentard play book.
    Ooh, "Momentard" is clever, where did you read that? Twit. The point I was making was an accusation against Neil, not a defence of Corbyn. Numpty.
  • JasonJason Posts: 1,614
    edited December 2019

    Jason said:

    The Telegraph have officially declared Corbyn an anti-Semite. They hid that well

    I think Mr Corbyn has done that all by himself CHB.
    And Mr Johnson has done the same. What a dreadful set of party leaders.
    Mr Johnson has declared Corbyn an anti Semite, yes, I agree. That's because he is one. Even the New Statesman has disowned him.
  • alb1on said:

    speedy2 said:

    kle4 said:

    One of the areas that flattered to deceive last time IIRC. Do you believe that poll?
    The Labour vote in Wrexham is down over 40% in two and a half years......

    That's a blood-bath in a blood-bank.
    True, and due to shift in the nature and geography of the Labour membership, working class Labour should become weaker and weaker in exchange for it becoming stronger among "limousine liberals" and "champagne socialists" like in America.
    But there are far fewer ultra rich people in Europe and the UK in order to form an electoral base.

    Also neoliberalism based on a coalition of poor immigrants and the rich is unstable because the immigrants might ask for a raise in pay.
    Immigration has become a significant factor in Wrexham, but because no-one is allowed to talk about it the effects have been hidden until now.
    What other town have a similar untalked-about immigration issue? Wales? England? Are they also going to see two in five of Labour's 2017 voters go walkabout?
    Immigration is a huge factor in Guildford. We rely on the Polish community for competent plumbers and electricians. :)
    Probable Lib Dem gain that
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,471

    What decides elections: this - or an Andrew Neil strop?
    I get the point but this cover would be far more powerful if it was on the front of the Guardian, Independent or Mirror instead of just the Torygraph. Who buying a copy of that paper was going to vote Labour anyway?
    But it features on the media paper reviews which is not just watched by 'tories'
    Literally dozens and dozens watch the late night paper reviews. Clearly you think there are loads of people out there who have not made their mind up about Corbyn, but earlier when it was something about Boris, you thought news wouldn’t move a single vote. Funny that.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,625
    I could be in bed this time next week.
  • Being told by the Telegraph that Corbyn is an anti-Semite isn't going to convince anyone new.
    You either think he is, or he isn't at this stage.
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,041
    The Economist endorses the Lib Dems

    https://www.economist.com/leaders/2019/12/05/britains-nightmare-before-christmas?frsc=dg|e

    Probably not going to influence too many constituencies outside the City and Westminster.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,732

    Being told by the Telegraph that Corbyn is an anti-Semite isn't going to convince anyone new.
    You either think he is, or he isn't at this stage.

    Always helpful to remind people.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,471

    Jonathan said:

    Truth hurts and it will be all over the paper reviews
    Does the truth about your man Boris leading the news hurt you?
    The truth about Boris is that he is Prime Minister.

    And is set to stay that way.
    Indeed the polls are indeed pointing to Boris remaining in number 10. Doesn’t make him any less rubbish sadly.
  • 2M views on AN now
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,544
    Have I missed any polls this evening?
  • camelcamel Posts: 815
    PB very partisan today. A no polls day.

    Anyway, off topic, in 2001, Hague and Blair were the two contenders for PM. They had neighboring constituencies. Was this the only time?
  • Jonathan said:

    Truth hurts and it will be all over the paper reviews
    Does the truth about your man Boris leading the news hurt you?
    No .

    Sky news tonight was amazing from Beth Rigby full of praise for how Boris is captivating voters in leave areas and dreadful for Corbyn on anti semitism

    If you do not believe me watch it on play back
  • RobD said:

    Being told by the Telegraph that Corbyn is an anti-Semite isn't going to convince anyone new.
    You either think he is, or he isn't at this stage.

    Always helpful to remind people.
    Why don't we also remind people that Johnson is a racist?
    I for one think both leaders are crap. There.
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,067
    Jonathan said:

    What decides elections: this - or an Andrew Neil strop?
    I get the point but this cover would be far more powerful if it was on the front of the Guardian, Independent or Mirror instead of just the Torygraph. Who buying a copy of that paper was going to vote Labour anyway?
    But it features on the media paper reviews which is not just watched by 'tories'
    Literally dozens and dozens watch the late night paper reviews. Clearly you think there are loads of people out there who have not made their mind up about Corbyn, but earlier when it was something about Boris, you thought news wouldn’t move a single vote. Funny that.
    Sadly BigG has made a fool out of himself with his sudden transformation to supporting the mendacious, disingenuous racist buffoon.
  • KentRisingKentRising Posts: 2,917
    Jesus, I think election fatigue is on show on here tonight. Everyone take a breath and an early night!
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,732

    Have I missed any polls this evening?

    We should get one tomorrow. :o
  • Jonathan said:

    Truth hurts and it will be all over the paper reviews
    Does the truth about your man Boris leading the news hurt you?
    No .

    Sky news tonight was amazing from Beth Rigby full of praise for how Boris is captivating voters in leave areas and dreadful for Corbyn on anti semitism

    If you do not believe me watch it on play back
    The thing is, you evidently don't actually care about racism otherwise you wouldn't be voting Tory.
  • camelcamel Posts: 815

    Jonathan said:

    Truth hurts and it will be all over the paper reviews
    Does the truth about your man Boris leading the news hurt you?
    No .

    Sky news tonight was amazing from Beth Rigby full of praise for how Boris is captivating voters in leave areas and dreadful for Corbyn on anti semitism

    If you do not believe me watch it on play back
    Sky has been 'coming home' for a few days now.
  • ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,503
    murali_s said:

    Jonathan said:

    What decides elections: this - or an Andrew Neil strop?
    I get the point but this cover would be far more powerful if it was on the front of the Guardian, Independent or Mirror instead of just the Torygraph. Who buying a copy of that paper was going to vote Labour anyway?
    But it features on the media paper reviews which is not just watched by 'tories'
    Literally dozens and dozens watch the late night paper reviews. Clearly you think there are loads of people out there who have not made their mind up about Corbyn, but earlier when it was something about Boris, you thought news wouldn’t move a single vote. Funny that.
    Sadly BigG has made a fool out of himself with his sudden transformation to supporting the mendacious, disingenuous racist buffoon.
    What? Big G is now cheering for Corbyn? What??
  • Have I missed any polls this evening?

    Nothing tonight!
  • Like I've said, if you passionately care about racism you can't vote for either of the two parties.
    If you want to be pragmatic and make that defence, I have just as much right to vote Labour as you do Tory. If that's the avenue you want to go down, fine.
    But don't sit here and pretend you're voting Tory as an anti-racist vote.
  • JasonJason Posts: 1,614
    IshmaelZ said:

    Jason said:

    kle4 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Tories seem to be very quick to dismiss something we know for a fact they'd be going on about if this was Corbyn

    Maybe, but if Neil had done a similar fisk on Corbyn for not turning up (I know he did) we wouldn’t have been able to move on this board without you proclaiming how much of a ‘Tory’ he is.

    Perhaps we can all just agree he’s a tough and fair investigative journalist?
    I think at the time I said Corbyn's interview was a car crash. Neil is a great interviewer and a great journalist. One of the few I do respect.
    He is a bullying windbag. Corbyn was unacceptably bullied. As an interviewer your only job is to ascertain the facts. Will Corbyn apologise over anti-Semitism? No. Important question, so you get to ask it again for absolute clarity. Then you move on, and if you don't, further repetition of the same question is actually just a cover for hectoring, browbeating and grandstanding. Not that I object in Corbyn's case, but let's not accept Neil at his own valuation.
    He. was. not. bullied.

    No matter if it was a badly done interview, or he was hectored unacceptably, the Leader of the Opposition, or the Prime Minister, facing that while asking to become/remain the most powerful person in the country, is not being bullied.

    Maybe I'm oversensitive about a trivial word choice, but it really bothers me when people claim politicians being asked questions they don't like, with a browbeating manner, is akin to being bullied.
    kle4 is correct. If you're playing the bullying card, you've lost the argument. This is a fella auditioning himself to be a potential PM, not the lead in a high school musical. The bullying charge is straight out of the Momentard play book.
    Ooh, "Momentard" is clever, where did you read that? Twit. The point I was making was an accusation against Neil, not a defence of Corbyn. Numpty.
    IshmaelZ I don't know you, and I've never spoken to you, and I've never directed personal abuse towards you. To quote the former Speaker, go and lie down in a darkened room and take a soothing medicament before you do yourself an injury.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,652

    Jason said:

    The Telegraph have officially declared Corbyn an anti-Semite. They hid that well

    I think Mr Corbyn has done that all by himself CHB.
    And Mr Johnson has done the same. What a dreadful set of party leaders.
    Its an election about the least awful CHB. And on that Corbyn loses bigtime
  • Jason said:

    The Telegraph have officially declared Corbyn an anti-Semite. They hid that well

    I think Mr Corbyn has done that all by himself CHB.
    And Mr Johnson has done the same. What a dreadful set of party leaders.
    Its an election about the least awful CHB. And on that Corbyn loses bigtime
    I think both leaders are as crap as each other, that is my view at this stage.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,625
    kle4 said:

    Truth hurts and it will be all over the paper reviews
    Literally got nothing else

    Total barrel scraping
    It was a pretty big news story. Obviously the Telegraph are going to make a lot of it, but are we really trying to say that was not a major thing in the news today and therefore fair game for a newspaper front page? Is it barrel scraping when the thing being scraped was all over the news?

    I mean, the Neil thing is newer and more fun, but a media figure asking for an interview is technically less of a news 'event'. Although 'BBC Blasts Boris' would be a better headline. I wonder if the Mirror will go with that.
    Nothing new in JLM submission.

    @bbclaurak would love it to run another week.
  • KentRisingKentRising Posts: 2,917
    Ratters said:

    The Economist endorses the Lib Dems

    https://www.economist.com/leaders/2019/12/05/britains-nightmare-before-christmas?frsc=dg|e

    Probably not going to influence too many constituencies outside the City and Westminster.

    We'll strike me down, never!
  • Off topic, it looks to me like the Evening Standard tonight (George) is starting to lean towards Boris.

    I note he also says he wants to heal the nation and understands the need to reach out to all those who voted Remain.

    Interesting.

    The ES backed Boris for the leadership.
    As the London paper I can't see it backing the Tories, but due to the antisemitism I can't see it backing Labour either. It may not take a position, or - god forbid - go for the Lib Dems.
    I think the ES has always been true blue. It even backed Gentleman John in 1997, though it had to pretend that anti-Blair articles from Michael Howard's son were written by former Labour MP Bryan Gould.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,471

    I could be in bed this time next week.

    You old Casanova. No need to show off.
  • geoffw said:

    Cyclefree said:

    RobD said:

    Quoting directly the Jewish Labour Movement is desperate?

    One aspect of this issue has been overlooked and it is this. Corbyn has repeatedly said that there is no place for anti-semitism in Labour. So let’s take him at his word and that this is his genuine belief. Why then has he been so ineffective at dealing with it? And if he can’t resolve this in the last 4 years, why should anyone believe that he would be capable of effecting the great transformational changes in Britain he claims he wants?

    Anti-semitism doesn’t just go to Corbyn’s morality but to his competence.
    Could it be in the LP's interest to be institutionally anti-semitic?

    Labour has more members than any other political party in Europe.This membership has grown under Corbyn's leadership.

    Anti-semitism exists in society as a whole and it is totally unacceptable.

    One of the reasons that there seems to be a cluster in the Labour Party is that the increase in membership has brought with it an increase in complex and difficult issues.It needs to be urgently dealt with as a matter of morality and it should not be used to make political capital by the press or by other parties.

  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,067

    I could be in bed this time next week.

    Don't lose hope. There's still time to pull this around. It could be the right-wing loons that live on this board heading for an early night next week. Unlikely but still possible!
  • melcfmelcf Posts: 166

    melcf said:

    Define Outsourcing:
    So Boris Ali Kemal Bey Johnson, Priti Patel, Sajid Javid and Aberdeen born Michael Gove (with no father's name on birth certificate ) are lined up to save England. From Europe and the hordes of marauding immigrants, piccanninnies, watermelon smiles and letter boxes.
    Sorry, I need a drink.

    Michael Gove was born in Edinburgh and adopted by a couple from Aberdeen, please get it correct!
    ---Graeme Logan was born on 26 August 1967 to his biological mother,[15] whom he originally believed to have been an unmarried Edinburgh student but who was in fact a 23-year-old cookery demonstrator.[3] Gove regarded his birthplace as Edinburgh until it was revealed in a biography in 2019 that he was born in a maternity hospital in Fonthill Road, Aberdeen.[16]

    Logan was put into care soon after he was born. At the age of four months he was adopted by a Labour-supporting couple in Aberdeen, Ernest and Christine Gove, by whom he was brought up.[17] After he joined the Gove family, Logan's name was changed to Michael Andrew Gove.[3] His adoptive father, Ernest, ran a fish processing business and his adoptive mother, Christine, was a lab assistant at the University of Aberdeen, before working at the Aberdeen School for the Deaf.[18]

    -- No mention ever, of the chinless backstabbers biological father. Could be another Ali Kemal Bey???
  • alb1onalb1on Posts: 698

    murali_s said:

    Jonathan said:

    What decides elections: this - or an Andrew Neil strop?
    I get the point but this cover would be far more powerful if it was on the front of the Guardian, Independent or Mirror instead of just the Torygraph. Who buying a copy of that paper was going to vote Labour anyway?
    But it features on the media paper reviews which is not just watched by 'tories'
    Literally dozens and dozens watch the late night paper reviews. Clearly you think there are loads of people out there who have not made their mind up about Corbyn, but earlier when it was something about Boris, you thought news wouldn’t move a single vote. Funny that.
    Sadly BigG has made a fool out of himself with his sudden transformation to supporting the mendacious, disingenuous racist buffoon.
    What? Big G is now cheering for Corbyn? What??
    Probably best to add the words 'fat' or 'scrawny' to distinguish the two party leaders when using terms which apply to them both.
  • ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,503

    kle4 said:

    Truth hurts and it will be all over the paper reviews
    Literally got nothing else

    Total barrel scraping
    It was a pretty big news story. Obviously the Telegraph are going to make a lot of it, but are we really trying to say that was not a major thing in the news today and therefore fair game for a newspaper front page? Is it barrel scraping when the thing being scraped was all over the news?

    I mean, the Neil thing is newer and more fun, but a media figure asking for an interview is technically less of a news 'event'. Although 'BBC Blasts Boris' would be a better headline. I wonder if the Mirror will go with that.
    Nothing new in JLM submission.

    @bbclaurak would love it to run another week.
    Well apart from your Labour brethren stating that Jews use Auschwitz as a “cash cow”.

    What a lovely party you support.
  • Frankly supporting Lib Dem doesn't make me happy but I suppose I can pretend to take the "I care about racism" defence
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Being told by the Telegraph that Corbyn is an anti-Semite isn't going to convince anyone new.
    You either think he is, or he isn't at this stage.

    Or, and this is the problematic one, he is but it doesn't really matter.

    And how about retiring the "nobody's mind will be changed" meme? We know people change their minds (if they didn't, it would be a bit silly having polls and elections and stuff). We don't know why they change their minds, but well publicised data directly relevant to what they are being asked to decide about are quite a good candidate as a causal factor.
  • IshmaelZ said:

    Being told by the Telegraph that Corbyn is an anti-Semite isn't going to convince anyone new.
    You either think he is, or he isn't at this stage.

    Or, and this is the problematic one, he is but it doesn't really matter.

    And how about retiring the "nobody's mind will be changed" meme? We know people change their minds (if they didn't, it would be a bit silly having polls and elections and stuff). We don't know why they change their minds, but well publicised data directly relevant to what they are being asked to decide about are quite a good candidate as a causal factor.
    I think frankly that applies to both parties now.
  • alb1onalb1on Posts: 698
    melcf said:

    melcf said:

    Define Outsourcing:
    So Boris Ali Kemal Bey Johnson, Priti Patel, Sajid Javid and Aberdeen born Michael Gove (with no father's name on birth certificate ) are lined up to save England. From Europe and the hordes of marauding immigrants, piccanninnies, watermelon smiles and letter boxes.
    Sorry, I need a drink.

    Michael Gove was born in Edinburgh and adopted by a couple from Aberdeen, please get it correct!
    ---Graeme Logan was born on 26 August 1967 to his biological mother,[15] whom he originally believed to have been an unmarried Edinburgh student but who was in fact a 23-year-old cookery demonstrator.[3] Gove regarded his birthplace as Edinburgh until it was revealed in a biography in 2019 that he was born in a maternity hospital in Fonthill Road, Aberdeen.[16]

    Logan was put into care soon after he was born. At the age of four months he was adopted by a Labour-supporting couple in Aberdeen, Ernest and Christine Gove, by whom he was brought up.[17] After he joined the Gove family, Logan's name was changed to Michael Andrew Gove.[3] His adoptive father, Ernest, ran a fish processing business and his adoptive mother, Christine, was a lab assistant at the University of Aberdeen, before working at the Aberdeen School for the Deaf.[18]

    -- No mention ever, of the chinless backstabbers biological father. Could be another Ali Kemal Bey???
    If you were Gove's father wouldn't you keep quiet about it? I would be tempted to enter a Trappist monastery.
  • https://twitter.com/MetroUKNews/status/1202704699687886848

    Surprised to see a DMGT paper go for this
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,471

    Jonathan said:

    Truth hurts and it will be all over the paper reviews
    Does the truth about your man Boris leading the news hurt you?
    No .

    Sky news tonight was amazing from Beth Rigby full of praise for how Boris is captivating voters in leave areas and dreadful for Corbyn on anti semitism

    If you do not believe me watch it on play back
    Nice swerve. Almost Boris like. Don’t pick up bad habits. So ANs truths don’t hurt you?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Given I'm blocked by him I can't give the full details but from what I am seeing Wings is in total meltdown.

    He's now advocating voting for Johann Lamont.
  • Like I said, if you passionately hate racism then you can't vote for either party. If not, you're just a hypocrite.

    I'm a hypocrite, I will hold my hands up to it.
  • JasonJason Posts: 1,614
    Wow lifelong Labour voters queuing up on Newnight to say they have voted for Boris.
  • MJWMJW Posts: 1,720
    Amazingly strong words on her ex-colleagues from Luciana Berger here.

    "For me, the issue of racism is fundamental. I left the Labour Party because I consider it a racist endeavour. I could no longer, in good faith, knock on doors and say vote for me, and by extension get Jeremy Corbyn as Prime Minister.

    There are plenty of apologists for Corbynism who say it’s a made-up slur, or a smear, or promoted by enemies of ‘Jeremy’. The JLM evidence to the equalities watchdog shows that Labour’s antisemitism is not a concoction, but instead woven deep into the fabric of today’s Labour Party.

    Knowing this, I am angry at those former colleagues who are not Corbyn acolytes, but still campaign to put him into Number 10. They have shown time and time again that they are willing to throw Britain’s Jews under the bus for the sake of their own re-election to Parliament and the merest hint of a Red Box. They must live with their shame."

    You have to be wincing if you're a moderate Labour MP who tweeted out how incredibly sad you were she left but wanted to stay and fight reading that last para in particular.

    Link:https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/12/05/labour-anti-semitism-dossier-bears-witness-catalogue-abuse-jewish/?WT.mc_id=tmgliveapp_iosshare_AtgsQdjHFJJC
  • Jason said:

    Wow lifelong Labour voters queuing up on Newnight to say they have voted for Boris.

    What else is new?
  • ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,503
    Jason said:

    Wow lifelong Labour voters queuing up on Newnight to say they have voted for Boris.

    Will vote or have already?
  • Off topic, it looks to me like the Evening Standard tonight (George) is starting to lean towards Boris.

    I note he also says he wants to heal the nation and understands the need to reach out to all those who voted Remain.

    Interesting.

    The ES backed Boris for the leadership.
    As the London paper I can't see it backing the Tories, but due to the antisemitism I can't see it backing Labour either. It may not take a position, or - god forbid - go for the Lib Dems.
    I think the ES has always been true blue. It even backed Gentleman John in 1997, though it had to pretend that anti-Blair articles from Michael Howard's son were written by former Labour MP Bryan Gould.
    Nobody who lives in London reads the Standard. It's a Home Counties commuter paper, hence the Tory support and endless boring articles about property. Although they did once publish one of my letters so they can't be all bad.
  • Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Charles said:

    kle4 said:

    Johnson is a liar and he is a coward. The election campaign has demonstrated that. No-one can say they have not been warned.

    He's also arrogant, don't forget that.
    Yes, a liar, a coward, arrogant AND an adulterer....don't forget that.
    The two items from Johnson's past which would have killed any other politician's career are the financial issues surrounding Ms Arcuri and most importantly the Darius Guppy affair which is pretty much consigned to history.

    If I had conspired with a friend to assault a Sun journalist I would have likely as not been charged and convicted of 'conspiracy'. It hasn't hindered Johnson's ascent of the greasy pole one iota.

    Running away from his responsibilities as a father and cheating on his wife as she underwent treatment for cancer would usually be dealbreakers, too.

    Why do you always mention the cancer thing?

    It doesn’t make his cheating any worse
    Hadn’t he already left his wife by then?
    Does that make his behaviour acceptable then?
    I was merely correcting what I think is a factual inaccuracy. Personally, I could not care less about his private life. There is quite enough to criticise in his public life.

    Marina was Boris’s second wife. He married her when she was very heavily pregnant with their first child barely a week or so after getting a divorce from his first. This may sound harsh but if you commit adultery with a man and then marry him, you should not be entirely surprised that he might repeat his adulterous behaviour to you.

    Of all the things which render Boris unfit to be PM, this is way down the list IMO.
    It’s a bit sexist, but I remember the line “a man who marries his mistress creates a vacancy” from somewhere.
  • Jason said:

    Wow lifelong Labour voters queuing up on Newnight to say they have voted for Boris.

    What else is new?
    Is this going to be the year of the UK's 'Reagan Democrats'? These focus groups are a bloodbath for Labour.
  • novanova Posts: 682

    Jason said:

    kle4 said:

    So many reasons why the cockiness of tories on here is leaving me bemused, although I suspect one of them is psychological. If you tell yourself something is true enough times then it must be.

    I've several reasons why I think this is not going the way you seem to think it is. Here's just one, for now.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/dec/05/polls-election-ethnic-minority-voters-black-asian-scottish-lib-dem?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Tweet

    Considering consistent 9-10 point leads, some of the Tories are the very opposite of cocky!
    The important word there is some. Some are acting like they've already won.
    I'd love to have seen your demeanour if Labour were 10 points ahead a week before an election. You get titillated by the minutiae of every single opinion poll.
    I'd be scared I think bearing in mind how wrong the polls were in 2015.
    2015: Polls (on average) overstated Labour
    2017: Polls (on average) understated Labour
    2019: ?
    Well, a poll on the day before said Labour would lose by 10 points, so if one wished to clutch at straws, one could argue we're already in HP territory
    Polling in 1987, 1992, 1997, 2001, 2005 and 2015 all favoured Labour over the Tories. 2010 was pretty much spot on.

    Only 2017 has really understated, and the polling companies reckon they know where they went wrong.

    On the flip side, I've never known so many people embarrassed to say they're voting Labour. The tactical voting/turnout could be even more extreme than last time in favour of Labour, and the Brexit party only standing in non-Tory seats does skew the polls by a few % in the Tories favour.

    So, I wouldn't say the polling is a toss up of whether Labour is under/overstated, but if the polls at 7-8% are the ones that are right, it could still be tight on the day.
  • https://twitter.com/MetroUKNews/status/1202704699687886848

    Surprised to see a DMGT paper go for this

    Why. They have editorial independence
  • melcfmelcf Posts: 166
    maaarsh said:

    melcf said:

    Define Outsourcing:
    So Boris Ali Kemal Bey Johnson, Priti Patel, Sajid Javid and Aberdeen born Michael Gove (with no father's name on birth certificate ) are lined up to save England. From Europe and the hordes of marauding immigrants, piccanninnies, watermelon smiles and letter boxes.
    Sorry, I need a drink.

    Are you complaining they're racist, or not racist enough for you?
    Are you thick, or just not thick enough?
  • JasonJason Posts: 1,614

    Jason said:

    Wow lifelong Labour voters queuing up on Newnight to say they have voted for Boris.

    Will vote or have already?
    Some have with postal votes, yes. But still remarkable to hear, even a relatively small sample size. Exactly the same as what I've been hearing in Dudley North. The white working class are flocking to Boris.
  • Jason said:

    Wow lifelong Labour voters queuing up on Newnight to say they have voted for Boris.

    What else is new?
    Is this going to be the year of the UK's 'Reagan Democrats'? These focus groups are a bloodbath for Labour.
    We will see what happens on polling day but this all seems very 2017 to me.

    If I've got it wrong, I'll hold my hands up. I don't intend to run away because despite everything, I do genuinely enjoy conversing here, if that's not a weird thing to say.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,580
    MJW said:

    Amazingly strong words on her ex-colleagues from Luciana Berger here.

    "For me, the issue of racism is fundamental. I left the Labour Party because I consider it a racist endeavour. I could no longer, in good faith, knock on doors and say vote for me, and by extension get Jeremy Corbyn as Prime Minister.

    There are plenty of apologists for Corbynism who say it’s a made-up slur, or a smear, or promoted by enemies of ‘Jeremy’. The JLM evidence to the equalities watchdog shows that Labour’s antisemitism is not a concoction, but instead woven deep into the fabric of today’s Labour Party.

    Knowing this, I am angry at those former colleagues who are not Corbyn acolytes, but still campaign to put him into Number 10. They have shown time and time again that they are willing to throw Britain’s Jews under the bus for the sake of their own re-election to Parliament and the merest hint of a Red Box. They must live with their shame."

    You have to be wincing if you're a moderate Labour MP who tweeted out how incredibly sad you were she left but wanted to stay and fight reading that last para in particular.

    Link:https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/12/05/labour-anti-semitism-dossier-bears-witness-catalogue-abuse-jewish/?WT.mc_id=tmgliveapp_iosshare_AtgsQdjHFJJC

    Once you make the leap she did, those who are more mealy mouthed about it must infuriate about as much as those who simply don't believe it. It must feel like more of a betrayal.
  • https://twitter.com/MetroUKNews/status/1202704699687886848

    Surprised to see a DMGT paper go for this

    Why. They have editorial independence
    "Independence". Why else would the DMGT own them?
  • Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Truth hurts and it will be all over the paper reviews
    Does the truth about your man Boris leading the news hurt you?
    No .

    Sky news tonight was amazing from Beth Rigby full of praise for how Boris is captivating voters in leave areas and dreadful for Corbyn on anti semitism

    If you do not believe me watch it on play back
    Nice swerve. Almost Boris like. Don’t pick up bad habits. So ANs truths don’t hurt you?
    Did you watch it. And I do not agree with Boris missing AN but doubt it will have any effect
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,974
    speedy2 said:

    kle4 said:

    One of the areas that flattered to deceive last time IIRC. Do you believe that poll?
    The Labour vote in Wrexham is down over 40% in two and a half years......

    That's a blood-bath in a blood-bank.
    True, and due to shift in the nature and geography of the Labour membership, working class Labour should become weaker and weaker in exchange for it becoming stronger among "limousine liberals" and "champagne socialists" like in America.
    But there are far fewer ultra rich people in Europe and the UK in order to form an electoral base.

    Also neoliberalism based on a coalition of poor immigrants and the rich is unstable because the immigrants might ask for a raise in pay.
    The anti Brexit graduate rich are more likely to vote LD than Corbyn Labour anyway, leaving Labour with mainly poor immigrants and the public sector and welfare dependent
  • Jason said:

    Wow lifelong Labour voters queuing up on Newnight to say they have voted for Boris.

    What else is new?
    Is this going to be the year of the UK's 'Reagan Democrats'? These focus groups are a bloodbath for Labour.
    beginning to think so.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,471

    Jason said:

    Wow lifelong Labour voters queuing up on Newnight to say they have voted for Boris.

    What else is new?
    Is this going to be the year of the UK's 'Reagan Democrats'? These focus groups are a bloodbath for Labour.
    It is set to be brutal for Labour
  • TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,683

    https://twitter.com/MetroUKNews/status/1202704699687886848

    Surprised to see a DMGT paper go for this

    Why. They have editorial independence
    "Independence". Why else would the DMGT own them?
    To make money? Just a guess....
  • ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,503

    https://twitter.com/MetroUKNews/status/1202704699687886848

    Surprised to see a DMGT paper go for this

    Why. They have editorial independence
    "Independence". Why else would the DMGT own them?
    DMGT has just bought the “i” paper has it not? I don’t think it will therefore turn into the Mail lite.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,471

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Truth hurts and it will be all over the paper reviews
    Does the truth about your man Boris leading the news hurt you?
    No .

    Sky news tonight was amazing from Beth Rigby full of praise for how Boris is captivating voters in leave areas and dreadful for Corbyn on anti semitism

    If you do not believe me watch it on play back
    Nice swerve. Almost Boris like. Don’t pick up bad habits. So ANs truths don’t hurt you?
    Did you watch it. And I do not agree with Boris missing AN but doubt it will have any effect
    Another swerve, the truth hurts.
  • https://twitter.com/MetroUKNews/status/1202704699687886848

    Surprised to see a DMGT paper go for this

    Why. They have editorial independence
    "Independence". Why else would the DMGT own them?
    DMGT has just bought the “i” paper has it not? I don’t think it will therefore turn into the Mail lite.
    And many of their journalists have just resigned. Why might that be?
This discussion has been closed.