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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,288
    ydoethur said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Has Richard Burgon changed Labour's defence policy on live TV just before the NATO summit?

    What did he say?
    https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1201232264572604418

    This was the clip.
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    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Tory majority drifting out a bit again

    NOM 3.2 on betfair, was 3.85 just before MRP (and didn't lengthen in response to MRP).
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    nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Pulpstar said:

    I've just found THE BET of the election

    Well when you think it’s safe to tell us let us know
  • Options

    HYUFD said:
    This is just not true.
    Average Tory lead (last 6 polls) 11 days ahead of GE19 = 9.2%
    Average Tory lead 11 days ahead of GE17 = 8.8%
    (Based on last six polls in wiki)
    ELBOW (sans Survation) is 9.7%. That's all 10 polls with fieldwork ending within the last seven days.
    And if you take the same approach to GE17 at D-11 you get...
    9.69%
    Squeaky ELBOW time? :lol:
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    SunnyJimSunnyJim Posts: 1,106
    edited December 2019
    Brom said:

    Burgon is the Tories best gift. This will get decent viewing figures too.

    I can usually find reasons to dislike politicians from other teams but not Burgon.

    It is like he has been sent down from outer space to troll everybody with an affected stupidity implausible in any human above the age of 5.

    He is outstanding value.
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    HenriettaHenrietta Posts: 136
    edited December 2019
    Looking at the two Wikipedia pages:
    GE2019: polls conducted 25-29 Nov (17 to 13 days out) (polls with data collected 21-25 and 22-25 didn't make the cut): arithmetic mean Tory lead in these 7 polls: 9.4%; spread: 6%-15%;
    GE2017: polls conducted 22-26 May (17 to 13 days out) (polls with data collected 19-23, 18-22, and 26-27 didn't make the cut): mean Tory lead in these 7 polls: 8.9%; spread: 5%-14%.
    Is the difference in means of 0.5% significant? No. This far out in 2017 the Tory lead was about 9%, same as now.
    For reference:
    2017 Manchester Arena bombing: 17 days out.
    2019 London Bridge terror attack: 13 days out.
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    timmotimmo Posts: 1,469
    Because they can never be seen to be wrong..they are brazen beyond belief and I think.it is institutionalized within the party..the Millwall of the political.system
    Of course Jess
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,232
    dr_spyn said:

    ydoethur said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Has Richard Burgon changed Labour's defence policy on live TV just before the NATO summit?

    What did he say?
    https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1201232264572604418

    This was the clip.
    Dear oh dear oh dear.
    Not something I say often, but Farage was bang on the money with that one.
    And Burgon was absolutely woeful. Like a more pompous version of Boris Johnson.
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    nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    The stand out politician, regardless of her policies, is Sturgeon she is demonstrating her experience and grasp of issues. I’m afraid the Green lady is just to gentle and nice
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    timmo said:

    Because they can never be seen to be wrong..they are brazen beyond belief and I think.it is institutionalized within the party..the Millwall of the political.system
    Of course Jess
    Why are they so rude to Jess?
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    SunnyJimSunnyJim Posts: 1,106
    Pulpstar said:

    I've just found THE BET of the election

    Diane Abbott not to be seen in public before 2200 on 12/12?
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,232
    SunnyJim said:

    Brom said:

    Burgon is the Tories best gift. This will get decent viewing figures too.

    I can usually find reasons to dislike politicians from other teams but not Burgon.

    It is like he had been sent down from outer space to troll everybody with an affected stupidity implausible in any human above the age of 5.

    He is outstanding value.
    What I don’t get is why Labour keep wheeling him out. If they want northern working class, Angela Rayner is altogether more impressive. Not that that’s necessarily saying she’s very impressive.
    If I were Labour, I would have done unto Burgon as the Tories have down unto Rees-Mogg, and for the same reasons.
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    In fact the World Trade Center was first attacked in 1993.
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    SunnyJim said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I've just found THE BET of the election

    Diane Abbott not to be seen in public before 2200 on 12/12?
    She's been paired with Jacob Rees Mogg.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    nichomar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I've just found THE BET of the election

    Well when you think it’s safe to tell us let us know
    Leicester East Labour 1.26 £500.00

    41st safest by Elecotral calculus, 31% gap midpoint according to MRP, 22000 majority, remain, high ethnic minority population.
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    nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    SunnyJim said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I've just found THE BET of the election

    Diane Abbott not to be seen in public before 2200 on 12/12?
    She's been paired with Jacob Rees Mogg.
    Now that’s going to make my bedtime dreams rather unpleasant
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    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,667

    HYUFD said:
    This is just not true.
    Average Tory lead (last 6 polls) 11 days ahead of GE19 = 9.2%
    Average Tory lead 11 days ahead of GE17 = 8.8%
    (Based on last six polls in wiki)
    ELBOW (sans Survation) is 9.7%. That's all 10 polls with fieldwork ending within the last seven days.
    And if you take the same approach to GE17 at D-11 you get...
    9.69%
    Squeaky ELBOW time? :lol:
    That will come if the ELBOW lead is 6.29% next Sunday (D-4). That's what it was on Sunday 4th June 2017.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967

    HYUFD said:
    This is just not true.
    Average Tory lead (last 6 polls) 11 days ahead of GE19 = 9.2%
    Average Tory lead 11 days ahead of GE17 = 8.8%
    (Based on last six polls in wiki)
    ELBOW (sans Survation) is 9.7%. That's all 10 polls with fieldwork ending within the last seven days.
    And if you take the same approach to GE17 at D-11 you get...
    9.69%
    Convenient to exclude the DeltaPoll poll that isn't listed on the wiki.
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    Richie Sunak is simply awful as was Boris Johnson this morning.Sturgeon is excellent and Burgon started well but has had one or two strange answers.

    The highlight of the debate is Farage's attempt to trash the Tory brand, why is he doing this?
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    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,667
    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:
    This is just not true.
    Average Tory lead (last 6 polls) 11 days ahead of GE19 = 9.2%
    Average Tory lead 11 days ahead of GE17 = 8.8%
    (Based on last six polls in wiki)
    ELBOW (sans Survation) is 9.7%. That's all 10 polls with fieldwork ending within the last seven days.
    And if you take the same approach to GE17 at D-11 you get...
    9.69%
    Convenient to exclude the DeltaPoll poll that isn't listed on the wiki.
    That's a stupid comment. I am not dictating which polls Wiki logs; I'd prefer them to log them all.
    Which Deltapoll are you referring to?
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967

    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:
    This is just not true.
    Average Tory lead (last 6 polls) 11 days ahead of GE19 = 9.2%
    Average Tory lead 11 days ahead of GE17 = 8.8%
    (Based on last six polls in wiki)
    ELBOW (sans Survation) is 9.7%. That's all 10 polls with fieldwork ending within the last seven days.
    And if you take the same approach to GE17 at D-11 you get...
    9.69%
    Convenient to exclude the DeltaPoll poll that isn't listed on the wiki.
    That's a stupid comment. I am not dictating which polls Wiki logs; I'd prefer them to log them all.
    Which Deltapoll are you referring to?
    No, but you could ensure that the list of polls you are using is complete.

    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1200880369693843456
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    BromBrom Posts: 3,760

    Richie Sunak is simply awful as was Boris Johnson this morning.Sturgeon is excellent and Burgon started well but has had one or two strange answers.

    The highlight of the debate is Farage's attempt to trash the Tory brand, why is he doing this?

    I don’t think anyone can seriously think Burgon is anything other than a distant last here. He’s like a competition winner.
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    ralphmalphralphmalph Posts: 2,201

    Richie Sunak is simply awful as was Boris Johnson this morning.Sturgeon is excellent and Burgon started well but has had one or two strange answers.

    The highlight of the debate is Farage's attempt to trash the Tory brand, why is he doing this?

    Are you watching via Corbonet with the red tinted glasses add-on?
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    Pulpstar said:

    nichomar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I've just found THE BET of the election

    Well when you think it’s safe to tell us let us know
    Leicester East Labour 1.26 £500.00

    41st safest by Elecotral calculus, 31% gap midpoint according to MRP, 22000 majority, remain, high ethnic minority population.
    ... under Keith Vaz

    Still a fine bet, I think, but probably worth mentioning everyone's favourite washing machine salesman
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    Time_to_LeaveTime_to_Leave Posts: 2,547
    edited December 2019
    Pulpstar said:

    nichomar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I've just found THE BET of the election

    Well when you think it’s safe to tell us let us know
    Leicester East Labour 1.26 £500.00

    41st safest by Elecotral calculus, 31% gap midpoint according to MRP, 22000 majority, remain, high ethnic minority population.
    Hasn’t that been the one with the sectarian shenanigans though? Plus Vas. Makes me slightly nervous on price, absent local knowledge.
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    SunnyJimSunnyJim Posts: 1,106

    Richie Sunak is simply awful as was Boris Johnson this morning.Sturgeon is excellent and Burgon started well but has had one or two strange answers.

    The highlight of the debate is Farage's attempt to trash the Tory brand, why is he doing this?

    You know if the Labour hardcore are saying their man gave 'one or two strange answers' then he's had an absolute shocker.
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    nichomar said:

    Floater said:

    i'm not watching the debate although the wife is.

    Her view is

    Sturgeon best by a mile.

    Burgon the worst by a mile

    Others "all good"

    Farage wiping the floor with the anti US gang of Swinson,Burgon & Sturgeon.
    With his view that it’s ok is for men to say some awful things about women I think he has just destroyed what little reputation he had.
    Farage said that ???
    That's not what he said.
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    ralphmalphralphmalph Posts: 2,201
    edited December 2019
    The take out from both debates that Adam Price has taken part in is that the Labour front bench does not care about Wales and has no clue with what is going on there. I think the next Welsh poll could be very interesting.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125
    Cyclefree said:

    RobD said:


    I am a pineapple pizza lover, and I approve of this message.
    😱
    Worse even than chocolate sprinkled on coffee.

    That follows a tasty Hawaiian....
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    sarissasarissa Posts: 1,783
    Sandpit said:

    America bombed Libya in 1986 and Iraq in 1991.
    After Libya blew up a Berlin Disco and Iraq invaded Kuwait....but yeah, it’s all the West's fault.
    We’re far from blameless - but to suggest we’re solely to blame is purile.
    And Lockerbie in 1988, another Libyan bomb in the U.K.
    Iran Air 655?
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    nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    God the desire to shout fuck off every time a Tory tries to crowbar get brexit done into any answer regardless of its relevance is unbelievable get brexit done solves nothing.
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    RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,226
    edited December 2019
    Burgon. Wow. Just wow.
    Did he really smirk at Price when he asked why Labour in government in Wales hadn't done what the SNP had done in Scotland?
    I think he just crashed his car into a Trident Missile. What an utter utter utter wazzock. Rishi Sunak is a parody of a politician. Made to look like Churchill by Burgon.
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    SunnyJimSunnyJim Posts: 1,106
    nichomar said:


    Now that’s going to make my bedtime dreams rather unpleasant

    'Mogging the Abbott' would be straight in at #1 on the Urban Dictionary.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967
    nichomar said:

    God the desire to shout fuck off every time a Tory tries to crowbar get brexit done into any answer regardless of its relevance is unbelievable get brexit done solves nothing.

    You think another few years of a hung parliament and a second referendum would help?
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,005

    Richie Sunak is simply awful as was Boris Johnson this morning.Sturgeon is excellent and Burgon started well but has had one or two strange answers.

    The highlight of the debate is Farage's attempt to trash the Tory brand, why is he doing this?

    Sunak was excellent, clear and articulate, Burgon was poor, Sturgeon was an Independence parrot as usual
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    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,187

    The take out from both debates that Adam Price has taken part in is that the Labour front bench does not care about Wales and has no clue with what is going on there. I think the next Welsh poll could be very interesting.

    No it won't.
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    ralphmalphralphmalph Posts: 2,201
    nichomar said:

    God the desire to shout fuck off every time a Tory tries to crowbar get brexit done into any answer regardless of its relevance is unbelievable get brexit done solves nothing.

    Stops people like you dreaming that we will not leave. it is why it riles you so much.
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    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,667
    edited December 2019
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:
    This is just not true.
    Average Tory lead (last 6 polls) 11 days ahead of GE19 = 9.2%
    Average Tory lead 11 days ahead of GE17 = 8.8%
    (Based on last six polls in wiki)
    ELBOW (sans Survation) is 9.7%. That's all 10 polls with fieldwork ending within the last seven days.
    And if you take the same approach to GE17 at D-11 you get...
    9.69%
    Convenient to exclude the DeltaPoll poll that isn't listed on the wiki.
    That's a stupid comment. I am not dictating which polls Wiki logs; I'd prefer them to log them all.
    Which Deltapoll are you referring to?
    No, but you could ensure that the list of polls you are using is complete.

    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1200880369693843456
    If I had time, maybe, but I hope you accept that it's not 'convenient' for me to exclude that one; I'll add it (along with others) as they are added to Wiki.
    My original point was the Tory lead is not (currently) 3 points better than it was at the same stage in GE17. Still stands.
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    nichomar said:

    God the desire to shout fuck off every time a Tory tries to crowbar get brexit done into any answer regardless of its relevance is unbelievable get brexit done solves nothing.

    Depressingly, you have to assume that people are children and it is polling well. Presumably the average person believes this of Boris thanks to the referendum and that hasn’t beEn dislodged (unlike May who managed to make “strong and stable” a joke).
    This is the future of all campaigns until we die isn’t it? One slogan each.
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    BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    Burgon getting laughed at twice from a restrained audience.

    Farage is a class act as a speaker even if he has no friends in the studio.
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    sarissa said:

    Sandpit said:

    America bombed Libya in 1986 and Iraq in 1991.
    After Libya blew up a Berlin Disco and Iraq invaded Kuwait....but yeah, it’s all the West's fault.
    We’re far from blameless - but to suggest we’re solely to blame is purile.
    And Lockerbie in 1988, another Libyan bomb in the U.K.
    Iran Air 655?
    Mentioned upthread!
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    HYUFD said:

    Richie Sunak is simply awful as was Boris Johnson this morning.Sturgeon is excellent and Burgon started well but has had one or two strange answers.

    The highlight of the debate is Farage's attempt to trash the Tory brand, why is he doing this?

    Sunak was excellent, clear and articulate, Burgon was poor, Sturgeon was an Independence parrot as usual
    Sunak was horrendous. Lying through his teeth on so many questions. Yet made to look almost Churchillian by the Wazzock Burgon
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:
    This is just not true.
    Average Tory lead (last 6 polls) 11 days ahead of GE19 = 9.2%
    Average Tory lead 11 days ahead of GE17 = 8.8%
    (Based on last six polls in wiki)
    ELBOW (sans Survation) is 9.7%. That's all 10 polls with fieldwork ending within the last seven days.
    And if you take the same approach to GE17 at D-11 you get...
    9.69%
    Convenient to exclude the DeltaPoll poll that isn't listed on the wiki.
    That's a stupid comment. I am not dictating which polls Wiki logs; I'd prefer them to log them all.
    Which Deltapoll are you referring to?
    No, but you could ensure that the list of polls you are using is complete.

    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1200880369693843456
    If I had time, maybe, but I hope you accept that it's not 'convenient' for me to exclude that one; I'll add it (along with others) as they are added to Wiki.
    My original point was the Tory lead is not (currently) 3 points better than it was at the same stage in GE17. Still stands.
    I don't think it does since it depends on what polls you are using, and how you are averaging them.
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    saddenedsaddened Posts: 2,245
    nichomar said:

    God the desire to shout fuck off every time a Tory tries to crowbar get brexit done into any answer regardless of its relevance is unbelievable get brexit done solves nothing.

    Top tip. Like most of the country, watch few if any of these pointless debates. Most people don't register the constant use of the sound bites because they rarely hear it. It'll be good for your blood pressure as well.
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    SunnyJimSunnyJim Posts: 1,106


    Sunak was horrendous. Lying through his teeth on so many questions. Yet made to look almost Churchillian by the Wazzock Burgon

    In the land of the blind and all that.
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    BromBrom Posts: 3,760

    HYUFD said:

    Richie Sunak is simply awful as was Boris Johnson this morning.Sturgeon is excellent and Burgon started well but has had one or two strange answers.

    The highlight of the debate is Farage's attempt to trash the Tory brand, why is he doing this?

    Sunak was excellent, clear and articulate, Burgon was poor, Sturgeon was an Independence parrot as usual
    Sunak was horrendous. Lying through his teeth on so many questions. Yet made to look almost Churchillian by the Wazzock Burgon
    Sunak so on script but knew his lines. Was like a kids TV presenter with his final pitch! Burgon with a weird grin at the end. They’re all a strange lot politicians.
  • Options

    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:
    This is just not true.
    Average Tory lead (last 6 polls) 11 days ahead of GE19 = 9.2%
    Average Tory lead 11 days ahead of GE17 = 8.8%
    (Based on last six polls in wiki)
    ELBOW (sans Survation) is 9.7%. That's all 10 polls with fieldwork ending within the last seven days.
    And if you take the same approach to GE17 at D-11 you get...
    9.69%
    Convenient to exclude the DeltaPoll poll that isn't listed on the wiki.
    That's a stupid comment. I am not dictating which polls Wiki logs; I'd prefer them to log them all.
    Which Deltapoll are you referring to?
    ELBOW includes yesterday's.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,629
    edited December 2019
    Pulpstar said:

    nichomar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I've just found THE BET of the election

    Well when you think it’s safe to tell us let us know
    Leicester East Labour 1.26 £500.00

    41st safest by Elecotral calculus, 31% gap midpoint according to MRP, 22000 majority, remain, high ethnic minority population.
    Hmm. The constiuency is heavily BME for sure, but only a small West Indian Community. Most of the BME community is South Asian, roughly 50/50 Hindu and Muslim. Mostly Gujerati for both, and often via East Africa, so quite complex. There is a big Somali community too.
    Keith Vaz had a large personal vote, and Claudia Webbe being parachuted in has annoyed a good number of Hindus in particular, as they feel a Hindu candidate was displaced unfairly. It is a community that can be anti Afro-Caribbean too.
    Nonetheless it should be a Labour hold, but I think a substantially reduced majority. This was the Tories canvassing their candidate on the Golden Mile yesterday:
    https://twitter.com/Guyton_Day/status/1200840797152776194?s=09
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967
    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    nichomar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I've just found THE BET of the election

    Well when you think it’s safe to tell us let us know
    Leicester East Labour 1.26 £500.00

    41st safest by Elecotral calculus, 31% gap midpoint according to MRP, 22000 majority, remain, high ethnic minority population.
    Hmm. The constiuency is heavily BME for sure, but only a small West Indian Community. Most of the BME community is South Asian, roughly 50/50 Hindu and Muslim. Mostly Gujerati for both, and often via East Africa, so quite complex. There is a big Somali community too.
    Keith Vaz had a large personal vote, and Claudia Webbe being parachuted in has annoyed a good number of Hindus in particular, as they feel a Hindu candidate was displaced unfairly. It is a community that can be anti Afro-Caribbean too.
    Nonetheless it should be a Labour hold, but I think a substantially reduced majority. This was the Tories canvassing their candidate on the Golden Mile yesterday:
    https://twitter.com/Guyton_Day/status/1200840797152776194?s=09
    I like the blue turbans!
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    Is it time for Survation yet?
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    saddened said:

    nichomar said:

    God the desire to shout fuck off every time a Tory tries to crowbar get brexit done into any answer regardless of its relevance is unbelievable get brexit done solves nothing.

    Top tip. Like most of the country, watch few if any of these pointless debates. Most people don't register the constant use of the sound bites because they rarely hear it. It'll be good for your blood pressure as well.
    For the first time this election, I didn't watch a debate (tonight's ITV).
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    New Thread

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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,232
    SunnyJim said:

    Richie Sunak is simply awful as was Boris Johnson this morning.Sturgeon is excellent and Burgon started well but has had one or two strange answers.

    The highlight of the debate is Farage's attempt to trash the Tory brand, why is he doing this?

    You know if the Labour hardcore are saying their man gave 'one or two strange answers' then he's had an absolute shocker.
    He gave a couple of strange answers.
    The rest were just run of the mill bucolic stupidity.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,281
    nichomar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I've just found THE BET of the election

    Well when you think it’s safe to tell us let us know
    Remortgaging takes time
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    nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    nichomar said:

    God the desire to shout fuck off every time a Tory tries to crowbar get brexit done into any answer regardless of its relevance is unbelievable get brexit done solves nothing.

    Stops people like you dreaming that we will not leave. it is why it riles you so much.
    The tories will get a 60+ majority the Labour Party will be around 180 lib dems around 30 so maybe an even bigger Tory majority it’s just time for Johnson to actually stop the platitudes about our marvelous future arrangement with the EU because it will never be better than what we currently have. Interestingly very few thoughtful tories have leapt to Johnson’s defense during this campaign because winning is more important to them than anything else. We will leave and have to live with it but to pretend WTO is not a realistic possibility by hiding behind ‘Johnson has a deal so no deal is impossible’ is one of the biggest lies of the campaign.
    Both Johnson and Corbyn have been abysmal during the campaign and both are going to be rewarded with three figure parliamentary parties.
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    nunu2nunu2 Posts: 1,453
    edited December 2019

    Pulpstar said:

    nichomar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I've just found THE BET of the election

    Well when you think it’s safe to tell us let us know
    Leicester East Labour 1.26 £500.00

    41st safest by Elecotral calculus, 31% gap midpoint according to MRP, 22000 majority, remain, high ethnic minority population.
    Hasn’t that been the one with the sectarian shenanigans though? Plus Vas. Makes me slightly nervous on price, absent local knowledge.
    It's safe as houses for Labour. Free money.


    Sunak was much much better today. Even if he is a bit roboty, the substance was on point.
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    SunnyJimSunnyJim Posts: 1,106
    Short of Labour pressing the nuclear button of scrapping current tuition fees, and refunding all previous, the election must boil down to this...

    1. How may undecideds are there?

    2. How many are likely vote?

    3. How will their vote be distributed.


    If anybody has got an answer for 1, 2 and 3 I have a Betfair/Spreadex account i'm willing to share the profits on.

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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,629
    RobD said:

    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    nichomar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I've just found THE BET of the election

    Well when you think it’s safe to tell us let us know
    Leicester East Labour 1.26 £500.00

    41st safest by Elecotral calculus, 31% gap midpoint according to MRP, 22000 majority, remain, high ethnic minority population.
    Hmm. The constiuency is heavily BME for sure, but only a small West Indian Community. Most of the BME community is South Asian, roughly 50/50 Hindu and Muslim. Mostly Gujerati for both, and often via East Africa, so quite complex. There is a big Somali community too.
    Keith Vaz had a large personal vote, and Claudia Webbe being parachuted in has annoyed a good number of Hindus in particular, as they feel a Hindu candidate was displaced unfairly. It is a community that can be anti Afro-Caribbean too.
    Nonetheless it should be a Labour hold, but I think a substantially reduced majority. This was the Tories canvassing their candidate on the Golden Mile yesterday:
    https://twitter.com/Guyton_Day/status/1200840797152776194?s=09
    I like the blue turbans!
    Confusingly, the LD candidate also has the surname Dave.
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    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Richie Sunak is simply awful as was Boris Johnson this morning.Sturgeon is excellent and Burgon started well but has had one or two strange answers.

    The highlight of the debate is Farage's attempt to trash the Tory brand, why is he doing this?

    Strange how the lifelong strivers against racism on the left hate the party of Sunak, Javid, Patel...
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    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,771
    edited December 2019

    viewcode said:

    That is true for pretty much all human endeavors. Our lives are better across the board, our sportsmen are better trained, our hospitals and schools are better resourced and the education and health offered is much richer. Our roads are much safer, our air is much cleaner, our cars are much more reliable, our computers are much better and faster. It goes on and on and on.

    Try getting a GP to do house calls
    Try getting an appointment with a doctor within three weeks

    Actually you might have a bit of a point, but thats a bit like lamenting the loss of milkmen or street gas lighters. There's a better way of delivery. You are right that the GP relationship that once existed has gone.

    PS, ive been with the same surgery for forty years and never had an issue getting a same day appointment.
    I've been with the same surgery for approx a decade and I can't get a same-day appointment. The three-week figure I quoted was not theoretical, it's a real one. I ended up in A&E and it really wasn't funny. And that's not the worst: some people have real horror stories
    Incidentally, "better way of delivery"??? You need a doctor to be physically present. Some stuff you can't diagnose remotely.
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,613
    RobD said:

    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    nichomar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I've just found THE BET of the election

    Well when you think it’s safe to tell us let us know
    Leicester East Labour 1.26 £500.00

    41st safest by Elecotral calculus, 31% gap midpoint according to MRP, 22000 majority, remain, high ethnic minority population.
    Hmm. The constiuency is heavily BME for sure, but only a small West Indian Community. Most of the BME community is South Asian, roughly 50/50 Hindu and Muslim. Mostly Gujerati for both, and often via East Africa, so quite complex. There is a big Somali community too.
    Keith Vaz had a large personal vote, and Claudia Webbe being parachuted in has annoyed a good number of Hindus in particular, as they feel a Hindu candidate was displaced unfairly. It is a community that can be anti Afro-Caribbean too.
    Nonetheless it should be a Labour hold, but I think a substantially reduced majority. This was the Tories canvassing their candidate on the Golden Mile yesterday:
    https://twitter.com/Guyton_Day/status/1200840797152776194?s=09
    I like the blue turbans!
    Wor Lass had a few choice words for those two.
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,613
    IshmaelZ said:

    Richie Sunak is simply awful as was Boris Johnson this morning.Sturgeon is excellent and Burgon started well but has had one or two strange answers.

    The highlight of the debate is Farage's attempt to trash the Tory brand, why is he doing this?

    Strange how the lifelong strivers against racism on the left hate the party of Sunak, Javid, Patel...
    Also known as the party of the 'Cricket Test'.
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,205

    RobD said:

    speedy2 said:

    Why does no one talk about bread and butter issues on the debate?
    "Bringing people together"? I read that people in Leigh moan about the 3 week bin collections, and probably everyone else in Britain too.
    If Boris promises to shift from 3 week bin collections to 1 week it would have far more impact with voters than vacuous slogans.

    4 week bin collection here in Aberconwy
    How is that even tolerable :o
    In our case it is not a problem as we do recycle a lot but it is a big problem for families

    And they are about to introduce charges for picking up garden waste
    We’ve had that in Camden for a while. Weekly collection of food waste and recycling. Twice weekly for all other stuff and you pay extra for garden waste. I don’t, preferring to take mine to recycling myself, though sometimes the bin men collect it anyway. I have very little which is not recyclable so every two weeks is more than adequate.
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    IshmaelZ said:

    Richie Sunak is simply awful as was Boris Johnson this morning.Sturgeon is excellent and Burgon started well but has had one or two strange answers.

    The highlight of the debate is Farage's attempt to trash the Tory brand, why is he doing this?

    Strange how the lifelong strivers against racism on the left hate the party of Sunak, Javid, Patel...
    Because they are in the wrong party.
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    funkhauserfunkhauser Posts: 325
    edited December 2019
    nichomar said:

    nichomar said:

    God the desire to shout fuck off every time a Tory tries to crowbar get brexit done into any answer regardless of its relevance is unbelievable get brexit done solves nothing.

    Stops people like you dreaming that we will not leave. it is why it riles you so much.
    The tories will get a 60+ majority the Labour Party will be around 180 lib dems around 30 so maybe an even bigger Tory majority it’s just time for Johnson to actually stop the platitudes about our marvelous future arrangement with the EU because it will never be better than what we currently have. Interestingly very few thoughtful tories have leapt to Johnson’s defense during this campaign because winning is more important to them than anything else. We will leave and have to live with it but to pretend WTO is not a realistic possibility by hiding behind ‘Johnson has a deal so no deal is impossible’ is one of the biggest lies of the campaign.
    Both Johnson and Corbyn have been abysmal during the campaign and both are going to be rewarded with three figure parliamentary parties.
    And Swinson's presidential campaign & campaign tactics?
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    ydoethur said:

    speedy2 said:

    Why does no one talk about bread and butter issues on the debate?
    "Bringing people together"? I read that people in Leigh moan about the 3 week bin collections, and probably everyone else in Britain too.
    If Boris promises to shift from 3 week bin collections to 1 week it would have far more impact with voters than vacuous slogans.

    Three weeks? Bloody hell. I’m less than brilliantly happy with two.
    We get 2 collections a week plus one recycling collection
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    RobD said:

    nunu2 said:

    Seems Tories have stepped up their twitter game.

    Have they finally woken up in the final two weeks? 😂

    What have they done? :p
    His posts threatening to vote BXP moved him into a different target group in the Kiwi system
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    alb1onalb1on Posts: 698
    matt said:

    alb1on said:

    alb1on said:

    kinabalu said:

    That is true for pretty much all human endeavors. Our lives are better across the board, our sportsmen are better trained, our hospitals and schools are better resourced and the education and health offered is much richer. Our roads are much safer, our air is much cleaner, our cars are much more reliable, our computers are much better and faster. It goes on and on and on.

    Absolutely right. And IMO this applies to the arts too. Music, films, TV, novels, poetry, plays etc, all better now than they used to be. Why? Because wider access means more product, thus harder to stand out. Every week there are songs released that are as good as anything by the Beatles. Just that you won't come across them. Yes, progress in everything is inevitable. I believe that. We are even getting better looking. Well, we aren't, quite the opposite, but you know what I mean.
    True, and its why that film Yesterday was just nostalgic mush. All those songs are fantastic. But our joy in hearing beatles songs is in how familiar we are with them and how they flood our minds with memories when we hear them.

    My significant other got me onto an obscure artist that most people havent heard of. Having been forced to listen to many of his songs over the space of a couple of years i now listen to him a lot and some of them feel to me as good as those classics.
    Sorry but I have to disagree. I cannot rate any modern composer with the likes of Schubert. No living artist can rival past masters such as Casper David Friedrich. And I defy anyone to find a play to equal Stoppard's Arcadia since it was written nearly 30 years ago. The real benefit of wider access is that it makes it easier to find the hidden gems from all eras. The example I like is Willy DeVille. A neglected genius in the UK and USA, I first heard his music in Germany (where he is still huge 10 years after his death), and youtube has given me the access to confirm his genius.
    Yay, Spanish Stroll is one of my fave singles.
    I recommend the acoustic album (mainly recorded live in Berlin) from the early noughties. Unfortunately very difficult to get hold of, but readily accessed on youtube.
    I’ve never heard of him but if you mean Unplugged in Berlin, it’s freely available on Spotify.
    Apologies. I was meaning the vinyl or cd.
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    rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    Charles said:

    ydoethur said:

    speedy2 said:

    Why does no one talk about bread and butter issues on the debate?
    "Bringing people together"? I read that people in Leigh moan about the 3 week bin collections, and probably everyone else in Britain too.
    If Boris promises to shift from 3 week bin collections to 1 week it would have far more impact with voters than vacuous slogans.

    Three weeks? Bloody hell. I’m less than brilliantly happy with two.
    We get 2 collections a week plus one recycling collection
    Oh, you live in Westchester County, NY too?
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,973

    Burgon. Wow. Just wow.
    Did he really smirk at Price when he asked why Labour in government in Wales hadn't done what the SNP had done in Scotland?
    I think he just crashed his car into a Trident Missile. What an utter utter utter wazzock. Rishi Sunak is a parody of a politician. Made to look like Churchill by Burgon.

    Sunak is King of the Donkeys, an absolute numpty.
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,205
    Floater said:

    He gets his steer from Milne

    I read something about Milne today and he really is the worst of a bad lot.
    The Bosnian civil war was a very significant event in the development of Islamist terror. It radicalised a whole generation - and if you look closely at the backgrounds and history of many subsequent Islamist leaders and influencers - you will find time spent in Bosnia during the war.
    This does not get aired much for three main reasons:-
    1. It does not fit with the narrative that it’s all the fault of Bush, Blair and the Iraq War.
    2. It does not fit with the narrative of the wicked US oppressing Muslims. It was of course the US which finally came to the rescue of Bosnian and Kosovan Muslims, not the Europeans - who had a pretty shameful record. And it was Jewish Nobel prize winner, Elie Wiesel, who publicly demanded action of Clinton to stop another European genocide.
    3. Some of those politicians so quick to pin blame on Iraq were on the side of the Serbs who were murdering Bosnian Muslims in their thousands. Corbyn for one. One of the biggest lies about him is that he is on the side of Muslims. He isn’t - and hasn’t been - when their oppressors and killers have been anti-West, as Milosovic and Karadzic and Mladic and Assad are/were.
    And of course the ideology underpinning Islamist terrorism developed in the 1920’s, was given legs by some of the Nazi ideology which was spread by the Nazis in the Middle East during WW2 and then developed further from the 1950’s onwards.
    None of this is known to (or, if it is, is ignored by) the simple minded peddling their ignorant nonsense about the Middle East, as Corbyn and many of those around him do.
    Far more comforting to come up with a simple story which blames everything on the West and ignore a much more complex history and, you know, actual facts.
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    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    ZOMBIE THREAD
This discussion has been closed.