Thanks, sorry I didn't know if you could be banned or whether it was against the rules. That one post just made me really angry as I do have a connection the events unfortunately and I didn't appreciate that point being made.
Pineapple on pizza Radio head Excessive meaningless twitter reposts Extensive Godwin references
Thanks, sorry I didn't know if you could be banned or whether it was against the rules. That one post just made me really angry as I do have a connection the events unfortunately and I didn't appreciate that point being made.
What connection CHB?
I don't wish to identify myself but I am sorry to say it's a deep personal connection to some of the people involved (not the bad people, the good).
Has Corbyn laid a wreath for the London Bridge terrorist yet?
Can you please stop making such utterly offensive remarks
He has form at being offensive.
Quite easy to rile these Corbynistas by insulting their messiah.
I am no Corbynista but do find the use of people being killed as political point scoring offensive (by any political side). I will not be alone on that.
Thanks, sorry I didn't know if you could be banned or whether it was against the rules. That one post just made me really angry as I do have a connection the events unfortunately and I didn't appreciate that point being made.
What connection CHB?
I don't wish to identify myself but I am sorry to say it's a deep personal connection to some of the people involved (not the bad people, the good).
Are we talking about this specific incident or 2017?
From previous thread: Good and Bad news for the Conservatives. The bad news is that consumer confidence for November came in at -14, the worst in any election since 1983 apart from 2010 which was at -16. In 2017 it was -10, and Major in 1992 had it at -8. Consumer confidence being above -10 has correctly predicted government majorities in the past 8 out of 9 elections, 1997 was the only time it got it wrong. The good news is that their predicted majority with this week's opinion polls is stable, no change with my swingometer at a majority of 24-88 same as past week, and at 347 (up 2) with Electoral Calculus using the average regional subsamples of all pollsters.
Odd on Tory Majority with Betfair have drifted a tad to 1.51.
Well Labour have closed the gap by 1% since last week but the extra evaporation of the Brexit Party is helping theoretically the Conservatives in Labour seats. But it is close, another point decline will push my swingometer to the 2-64 majority range, and you do have more and more pollsters predicting a Hung Parliament and the really bad consumer confidence figures. Also there is an error in the Electoral Calculus model that it doesn't account very well for the Brexit Party not standing in Conservative seats, it subtracts from them in Labour seats but does not add them in Conservative seats, it would overestimate conservative losses if the polls swing that far. I noticed it yesterday playing with it.
Who are the pollsters predicting a hung parliament?
BMG and ICM. COMRES until yesterday. Basically any poll with a lead less than 6-8% would give a hung parliament.
Shami very good on Marr today. She isn't always - not by any means - but she was here. Guess the justice system is her area of expertise. About to brave the "Boris" interview now. Will report back with my usual brutally honest assessment.
Thanks, sorry I didn't know if you could be banned or whether it was against the rules. That one post just made me really angry as I do have a connection the events unfortunately and I didn't appreciate that point being made.
What connection CHB?
I don't wish to identify myself but I am sorry to say it's a deep personal connection to some of the people involved (not the bad people, the good).
Are we talking about this specific incident or 2017?
Tempted to eat my hat if there's 60% turnout amongst 18-24.
It was 62% in 2017 I think?
Not according to the BES: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42747342 Youth turnout was thought to have been in the 60s in the immediate aftermath. Better studies since have mostly dispelled this view.
Has Corbyn laid a wreath for the London Bridge terrorist yet?
Can you please stop making such utterly offensive remarks
He has form at being offensive.
Quite easy to rile these Corbynistas by insulting their messiah.
I am no Corbynista but do find the use of people being killed as political point scoring offensive (by any political side). I will not be alone on that.
So those who accuse the Tories of killing thousands of people by their “cuts” are equally offensive? I would just like to check that, you know, there’s not double-standards.
Shami very good on Marr today. She isn't always - not by any means - but she was here. Guess the justice system is her area of expertise. About to brave the "Boris" interview now. Will report back with my usual brutally honest assessment.
Actually she was, calm, thoughtful and unwilling to knee jerk without thoughtful consideration and no desire to make political capital.
Interestingly i have today issued a letter before action to the liberal Democrat candidate in Sutton and Cheam and the agent for defamation and libel. The lib dems seem to think they can say and do anything with impunity and not have to deal with the consequences. I will.let you all know what happens.
I am sure Soubry is giving it her best. Gapes will be slaughtered and is surely only restanding for the £payoff. Not sure about Leslie.
Soubry is indeed fighting and on 15% according to the YG poll - roughly what I'd expect. Mike Gapes is dogged and I'd think will be trying hard, but I wouldn't bet on it. Don't think Leslie is especially dogged - can see him peacefully moving on to a think-tank.
Tempted to eat my hat if there's 60% turnout amongst 18-24.
It was 62% in 2017 I think?
Not according to the BES: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42747342 Youth turnout was thought to have been in the 60s in the immediate aftermath. Better studies since have mostly dispelled this view.
The document I read by House of Commons, said it was around 60% - but perhaps they're using the same flawed data
Has Corbyn laid a wreath for the London Bridge terrorist yet?
Can you please stop making such utterly offensive remarks
He has form at being offensive.
Quite easy to rile these Corbynistas by insulting their messiah.
I am no Corbynista but do find the use of people being killed as political point scoring offensive (by any political side). I will not be alone on that.
So those who accuse the Tories of killing thousands of people by their “cuts” are equally offensive? I would just like to check that, you know, there’s not double-standards.
The use of the language you quote is obviously designed to be offensive, yes. It is not difficult to spot.
From previous thread: Good and Bad news for the Conservatives. The bad news is that consumer confidence for November came in at -14, the worst in any election since 1983 apart from 2010 which was at -16. In 2017 it was -10, and Major in 1992 had it at -8. Consumer confidence being above -10 has correctly predicted government majorities in the past 8 out of 9 elections, 1997 was the only time it got it wrong. The good news is that their predicted majority with this week's opinion polls is stable, no change with my swingometer at a majority of 24-88 same as past week, and at 347 (up 2) with Electoral Calculus using the average regional subsamples of all pollsters.
Odd on Tory Majority with Betfair have drifted a tad to 1.51.
Well Labour have closed the gap by 1% since last week but the extra evaporation of the Brexit Party is helping theoretically the Conservatives in Labour seats. But it is close, another point decline will push my swingometer to the 2-64 majority range, and you do have more and more pollsters predicting a Hung Parliament and the really bad consumer confidence figures. Also there is an error in the Electoral Calculus model that it doesn't account very well for the Brexit Party not standing in Conservative seats, it subtracts from them in Labour seats but does not add them in Conservative seats, it would overestimate conservative losses if the polls swing that far. I noticed it yesterday playing with it.
Who are the pollsters predicting a hung parliament?
BMG and ICM. COMRES until yesterday. Basically any poll with a lead less than 6-8% would give a hung parliament.
Has Corbyn laid a wreath for the London Bridge terrorist yet?
Can you please stop making such utterly offensive remarks
He has form at being offensive.
Quite easy to rile these Corbynistas by insulting their messiah.
It's not that, it's making these points about the attack, see my other posts at why I'm personally offended by this.
Then you probably are starting to get some sense of how the victims of Antisemitism feel when the Corbots gaslight, mock, and smear them in a way they would never dare do to the victims of anti-black racism.
Thanks, sorry I didn't know if you could be banned or whether it was against the rules. That one post just made me really angry as I do have a connection the events unfortunately and I didn't appreciate that point being made.
What connection CHB?
I don't wish to identify myself but I am sorry to say it's a deep personal connection to some of the people involved (not the bad people, the good).
Are we talking about this specific incident or 2017?
This specific incident.
Weren't you posting your connection to this before the victims were known?
I think its hard to imagine a deep personal connection with some organisers being the theme of your post.
I doubt that Benn, Grieve and Bercow will be too distraught. Benn is well into red rosette on a donkey territory and has a secure job for life. Grieve looks like he's on his way out of Parliament, but he's 63 so can retire on a fat gold-plated pension, possibly supplemented with some legal work. Bercow is now a beloved left-liberal celebrity and will probably make a mint on the lecture circuit where he can continue to enjoy listening to the sound of his own voice at considerable length, as well as getting the customary seat in the House of Lords.
Sadly agree, except for possibly the very last bit. Bercow seems to have realised that Johnson isn’t going to give him a Peerage, so he’s going down the Blair route of the US speaking circuit. He had a row with the BBC last week over an interview on BBC World’s excellent Hard Talk programme. Apparently the first guest they’ve ever had withdraw for refusing to accept an open interview. Bercow ducks interview over questions of bullying “John Bercow cancelled an interview with the BBC after producers refused to accept his demands that he would not be asked questions about allegations that he had bullied staff. Mr Bercow’s agent from JLA, the corporate speaking agency, tried to set restrictions on questions before an interview with Hardtalk, on the BBC World News channel. An email obtained by Buzzfeed News said: “I have only one comment about the proposed subject matter. For good reasons John will not agree to answer questions about bullying allegations or bullying in general. So as long as you confirm today (in writing, please) that Stephen [Sackur, the presenter] will stay clear of that topic altogether we’re good to go ahead.” In a subsequent email Mr Bercow’s agent cancelled the interview: “Just to wrap this up… it’s definitive ‘no’ from John Bercow as a result of this morning’s conversations.”” – The Times https://www.conservativehome.com/frontpage/2019/11/newslinks-for-thursday-21st-november-2019.html
I think JRM said they would not block his peerage the day he stood down.
I’m sure they’ll happily let the bullying enquiry play out first, under the new Speaker, before deciding whether to offer the Peerage.
Thanks, sorry I didn't know if you could be banned or whether it was against the rules. That one post just made me really angry as I do have a connection the events unfortunately and I didn't appreciate that point being made.
What connection CHB?
I don't wish to identify myself but I am sorry to say it's a deep personal connection to some of the people involved (not the bad people, the good).
Are we talking about this specific incident or 2017?
This specific incident.
Weren't you posting your connection to this before the victims were known?
I think its hard to imagine a deep personal connection with some organisers being the theme of your post.
Yes, I was. I'm luckily not connected to the victims who have sadly been killed but to victims who have not - but were there. That's as much as I will say - I'm going to stop commenting on it now. Hope you'll understand.
Seems to me it's very easy to label somebody as a bot when they say something you don't agree with.
It's done relentlessly by the left to people of a more right persuasion on twitter who tend to have fewer followers.
Maybe Im too far behind the times tech wise but not sure how any regular posters on here could be bots, unlike Twitter, the format doesnt lend it itself to automation. Paid shill is certainly possible but nothing that looks like fully automated posting.
Has Corbyn laid a wreath for the London Bridge terrorist yet?
Can you please stop making such utterly offensive remarks
He has form at being offensive.
Quite easy to rile these Corbynistas by insulting their messiah.
There is an argument he shouldn’t have been shot though? And Corbyn far too quick (only because its election) to say he was rightly shot.
Who is making the argument that the police made the wrong decision? God, corbyn for all his faults is now accused of being far to quick to agree with the action the police took what do you want him to do?
Rather annoyingly, and unlike to the US election markets, Betfair only has a “PM after Boris Johnson” market, which could well take several years to pay out. Has anyone seen a “PM on 1/1/2020” market anywhere?
Betfair has"PM at formation of first ministry after election" under "UK - next general election".
Ooh, thanks. That one was very well hidden! https://www.betfair.com/exchange/politics/event/28265958/market?marketId=1.165009846 Johnson 1.26 looks awfully tempting, given that a few Ulstermen and independents (and maybe even the LDs) would either prop him up or abstain, and as the incumbent there’s going to have to be a clear majority of others acting together to force him to resign, rather than present a Queen’s Speech to be voted on.
I suppose there's a bit of insurance in there in case of (a) losing his seat and (b) being forced aside for a 'compromise' PM.
Exactly. He's 1.21 to win his seat. Which is mad, he plainly will.
This consumer confidence thing is...interesting. I've never heard that before? Did anyone use it in 2017 at the time to predict a HP before everyone else?
I did, I also used the best PM indicators, when you cant trust the headline number you have to look for other signs to either confirm or deny them. I think it was Matt Singh or someone in the FT who made an estimated voting share based on best PM measures, when the gap between the incumbent and the oppo leader is at around 7% it should indicate a tie in the party shares. When I saw both being favourable for Labour I placed my first bet on paddypower on a hung parliament about a week before the 2017 election.
Has Corbyn laid a wreath for the London Bridge terrorist yet?
Can you please stop making such utterly offensive remarks
He has form at being offensive.
Quite easy to rile these Corbynistas by insulting their messiah.
It's not that, it's making these points about the attack, see my other posts at why I'm personally offended by this.
Then you probably are starting to get some sense of how the victims of Antisemitism feel when the Corbots gaslight, mock, and smear them in a way they would never dare do to the victims of anti-black racism.
Well thats alright then, lets all seek to cause maximum offence for cheap political points because some idiots in Labour got away with anti semitism for too long. Or you know, we could treat each other with the respect we expected of Labour but didnt get.
Has Corbyn laid a wreath for the London Bridge terrorist yet?
Can you please stop making such utterly offensive remarks
He has form at being offensive.
Quite easy to rile these Corbynistas by insulting their messiah.
There is an argument he shouldn’t have been shot though? And Corbyn far too quick (only because its election) to say he was rightly shot.
Who is making the argument that the police made the wrong decision? God, corbyn for all his faults is now accused of being far to quick to agree with the action the police took what do you want him to do?
He said it but he doesn't believe it, and I think if he got into power, the 'shoot to kill' policy would be quashed. I do not believe for one instant Corbyn would take steps to protect this country from enemy attacks. Why would he? He's spent most of his adult life giving succour to our enemies.
I don't think it was Labour's fault, the 2008 indefinite prison sentence law was intended to prevent exactly this from happening. Unfortunately it proved to be unlawful, happily the government fixed this in 2012 in the aftermath of the 2008 law being struck down and any cases since then will not have the same end result of a terrorist being released automatically on licence.
To my mind, Justice Leveson needs to take a long look in the mirror as to how he was so easily hoodwinked by this man's defence team and his supposed contrition. The judge who gave the original sentence was of the opposite mind and clearly thought this man to be a permanent danger to the public.
The last Labour government clearly weren't in the business of letting terrorists go free, but due to a quirk of the law it has happened. My worry is that Jez and his mates would be in the business of letting terrorists go free.
I think turnout will be less than 65%. There is a lot of disappointment, apathy and disillusionment. The only thing that the polls, the surveys and most canvassers can agree is that voters are unhappy with how things are.
Betting (Betfair) question that’s just occurred to me: How would it affect the Next Labour Leader market if they decide to go for Co-Leaders like the Green Party? Voided?
Has Corbyn laid a wreath for the London Bridge terrorist yet?
Can you please stop making such utterly offensive remarks
He has form at being offensive.
Quite easy to rile these Corbynistas by insulting their messiah.
There is an argument he shouldn’t have been shot though? And Corbyn far too quick (only because its election) to say he was rightly shot.
Who is making the argument that the police made the wrong decision? God, corbyn for all his faults is now accused of being far to quick to agree with the action the police took what do you want him to do?
He said it but he doesn't believe it, and I think if he got into power, the 'shoot to kill' policy would be quashed. I do not believe for one instant Corbyn would take steps to protect this country from enemy attacks. Why would he? He's spent most of his adult life giving succour to our enemies.
People had been thumping and kicking him for 5 or 10 minutes before police shot him, and his apparent vest had not gone off. the fact is it’s not just this one wearing fake vest, the three shot before had fake vest for a reason, suckering us into martyring them the way they choose, with state bullets. To deny them that, and to be able to learn from their questioning things that may save other lives is far better wherever possible imo. If you disagree with me on that, fine, it means they are not screwing up our free speech as they want and our decent fair way of life. I think I have put forward a thoughtful and rational argument.
Anyway, labour sub 200 nailed on, Burgon is the stand in leader 🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪
Interestingly i have today issued a letter before action to the liberal Democrat candidate in Sutton and Cheam and the agent for defamation and libel. The lib dems seem to think they can say and do anything with impunity and not have to deal with the consequences. I will.let you all know what happens.
We had one of those fake newspapers from the Lib Dems today.
When I read it I wondered if Mr Quince would be tempted to ask for a retraction about a certain claim / innuendo contained therein.
That is true for pretty much all human endeavors. Our lives are better across the board, our sportsmen are better trained, our hospitals and schools are better resourced and the education and health offered is much richer. Our roads are much safer, our air is much cleaner, our cars are much more reliable, our computers are much better and faster. It goes on and on and on.
Absolutely right. And IMO this applies to the arts too. Music, films, TV, novels, poetry, plays etc, all better now than they used to be. Why? Because wider access means more product, thus harder to stand out. Every week there are songs released that are as good as anything by the Beatles. Just that you won't come across them. Yes, progress in everything is inevitable. I believe that. We are even getting better looking. Well, we aren't, quite the opposite, but you know what I mean.
True, and its why that film Yesterday was just nostalgic mush. All those songs are fantastic. But our joy in hearing beatles songs is in how familiar we are with them and how they flood our minds with memories when we hear them.
My significant other got me onto an obscure artist that most people havent heard of. Having been forced to listen to many of his songs over the space of a couple of years i now listen to him a lot and some of them feel to me as good as those classics.
Sorry but I have to disagree. I cannot rate any modern composer with the likes of Schubert. No living artist can rival past masters such as Casper David Friedrich. And I defy anyone to find a play to equal Stoppard's Arcadia since it was written nearly 30 years ago. The real benefit of wider access is that it makes it easier to find the hidden gems from all eras. The example I like is Willy DeVille. A neglected genius in the UK and USA, I first heard his music in Germany (where he is still huge 10 years after his death), and youtube has given me the access to confirm his genius.
You'd rate Schubert ahead of Thom Yorke?
That's a gutsy call on here. People have been banned for less.
Has Corbyn laid a wreath for the London Bridge terrorist yet?
Can you please stop making such utterly offensive remarks
He has form at being offensive.
Quite easy to rile these Corbynistas by insulting their messiah.
There is an argument he shouldn’t have been shot though? And Corbyn far too quick (only because its election) to say he was rightly shot.
Who is making the argument that the police made the wrong decision? God, corbyn for all his faults is now accused of being far to quick to agree with the action the police took what do you want him to do?
He said it but he doesn't believe it, and I think if he got into power, the 'shoot to kill' policy would be quashed. I do not believe for one instant Corbyn would take steps to protect this country from enemy attacks. Why would he? He's spent most of his adult life giving succour to our enemies.
People had been thumping and kicking him for 5 or 10 minutes before police shot him, and his apparent vest had not gone off. the fact is it’s not just this one wearing fake vest, the three shot before had fake vest for a reason, suckering us into martyring them the way they choose, with state bullets. To deny them that, and to be able to learn from their questioning things that may save other lives is far better wherever possible imo. If you disagree with me on that, fine, it means they are not screwing up our free speech as they want and our decent fair way of life. I think I have put forward a thoughtful and rational argument.
Anyway, labour sub 200 nailed on, Burgon is the stand in leader 🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪
Firstly - he was shot at about 5 minutes from start of incident
Betting (Betfair) question that’s just occurred to me: How would it affect the Next Labour Leader market if they decide to go for Co-Leaders like the Green Party? Voided?
If Labour get over 35% even if they lose, which at the moment looks achievable, I don't think Corbyn will stand down for at least the next 2 years, so that bet could be for something far far into the future.
Betting (Betfair) question that’s just occurred to me: How would it affect the Next Labour Leader market if they decide to go for Co-Leaders like the Green Party? Voided?
Sounds like a standard dead heat to me. 1 expected winner but 2 actual winners. If they did that half your bet would be a winner and half a loser. After their shenanigans on the May exit date I would be very wary of any interpretations from Betfair though so dyor and caveat emptor unfortunately.
Rather annoyingly, and unlike to the US election markets, Betfair only has a “PM after Boris Johnson” market, which could well take several years to pay out. Has anyone seen a “PM on 1/1/2020” market anywhere?
Betfair has"PM at formation of first ministry after election" under "UK - next general election".
Ooh, thanks. That one was very well hidden! https://www.betfair.com/exchange/politics/event/28265958/market?marketId=1.165009846 Johnson 1.26 looks awfully tempting, given that a few Ulstermen and independents (and maybe even the LDs) would either prop him up or abstain, and as the incumbent there’s going to have to be a clear majority of others acting together to force him to resign, rather than present a Queen’s Speech to be voted on.
I suppose there's a bit of insurance in there in case of (a) losing his seat and (b) being forced aside for a 'compromise' PM.
Exactly. He's 1.21 to win his seat. Which is mad, he plainly will.
I've taken the £37 available, thanks for that.
There's a few hundred quid available on Labour to re(t/g)ain Birkenhead at 1.29, if you're interested. Looks far more safe to me than Uxbridge
Betting (Betfair) question that’s just occurred to me: How would it affect the Next Labour Leader market if they decide to go for Co-Leaders like the Green Party? Voided?
Sounds like a standard dead heat to me. 1 expected winner but 2 actual winners. If they did that half your bet would be a winner and half a loser. After their shenanigans on the May exit date I would be very wary of any interpretations from Betfair though so dyor and caveat emptor unfortunately.
The various different permutations of what could happen to Labour under various vote shares feels too complex for me at least, for the moment. I agree with the comment above that high-ish 30s and Corbyn surely has the “right” to hang around and oversee the process that leads to his replacement (or be PM for a while if he does really well). On the other hand a bad loss and presumably Labour would go into civil war mode. Absent Watson, I think there are then too many possibilities for how any interim successor would be chosen and/or defined for betting purposes. Basically it’s scared me off.
No one really cares about these debates without Corbyn and Johnson .
Burgon is really annoying , I find his voice grates but clearly they’ve stuck on a Labour MP from the north with the appropriate accent to appeal to Labour Leave voters .
Sunak seems to be forgetting that he's been in government for a decade. These problems with the justice system are the Tories problems with the justice system.
And Burgon? Seems to be forgetting everything. As he keeps looking down at his notes on literally any subject
I don't think it was Labour's fault, the 2008 indefinite prison sentence law was intended to prevent exactly this from happening. Unfortunately it proved to be unlawful, happily the government fixed this in 2012 in the aftermath of the 2008 law being struck down and any cases since then will not have the same end result of a terrorist being released automatically on licence.
To my mind, Justice Leveson needs to take a long look in the mirror as to how he was so easily hoodwinked by this man's defence team and his supposed contrition. The judge who gave the original sentence was of the opposite mind and clearly thought this man to be a permanent danger to the public.
The last Labour government clearly weren't in the business of letting terrorists go free, but due to a quirk of the law it has happened. My worry is that Jez and his mates would be in the business of letting terrorists go free.
One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. Or friend.
Sunak seems to be forgetting that he's been in government for a decade. These problems with the justice system are the Tories problems with the justice system.
And Burgon? Seems to be forgetting everything. As he keeps looking down at his notes on literally any subject
I’ve concluded that Labour now puts up Burgon as a comedy gift to the nation.
No one really cares about these debates without Corbyn and Johnson .
Burgon is really annoying , I find his voice grates but clearly they’ve stuck on a Labour MP from the north with the appropriate accent to appeal to Labour Leave voters .
Like question time I have decided not to watch anymore debates other than the last one Boris v Corbyn
The unknown junior conservative politician is coming over as a robotic Tory clone instead of being positive it’s corbyn this Macdonald that, no thought or analysis just pre prepared quotes and attack lines it’s dull boring and an enormous turn off.
Poor inexperienced MP's who sit in for their leaders in tonight's debate. Sturgeon and Farage show that they have the most political experience. But everyone attacks the government for making a bad job on terrorism.
No one really cares about these debates without Corbyn and Johnson .
Burgon is really annoying , I find his voice grates but clearly they’ve stuck on a Labour MP from the north with the appropriate accent to appeal to Labour Leave voters .
Like question time I have decided not to watch anymore debates other than the last one Boris v Corbyn
They are a waste of time and a turn off
And as important they will not change a vote
I think they do show up the limited talent on the front bench. Imagine this equivalent debate in 2010. You might have got David Milliband, William Hague, and Chris Huhne.
As did Price and Sturgeon. Sunak and Burgon utter parodies of politicians
The other day someone said sunak was like a robot. Why does the robot keep getting the chance? Surely Pritti or Raab should Protect the important flame better than this, they have more skill, so not having your better players on the pitch is costing you points.
As for borgon. He is dire here. He is dire everywhere.
I don't think it was Labour's fault, the 2008 indefinite prison sentence law was intended to prevent exactly this from happening. Unfortunately it proved to be unlawful, happily the government fixed this in 2012 in the aftermath of the 2008 law being struck down and any cases since then will not have the same end result of a terrorist being released automatically on licence.
To my mind, Justice Leveson needs to take a long look in the mirror as to how he was so easily hoodwinked by this man's defence team and his supposed contrition. The judge who gave the original sentence was of the opposite mind and clearly thought this man to be a permanent danger to the public.
The last Labour government clearly weren't in the business of letting terrorists go free, but due to a quirk of the law it has happened. My worry is that Jez and his mates would be in the business of letting terrorists go free.
One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. Or friend.
Thanks, sorry I didn't know if you could be banned or whether it was against the rules. That one post just made me really angry as I do have a connection the events unfortunately and I didn't appreciate that point being made.
What connection CHB?
I don't wish to identify myself but I am sorry to say it's a deep personal connection to some of the people involved (not the bad people, the good).
Are we talking about this specific incident or 2017?
This specific incident.
Weren't you posting your connection to this before the victims were known?
I think its hard to imagine a deep personal connection with some organisers being the theme of your post.
Yes, I was. I'm luckily not connected to the victims who have sadly been killed but to victims who have not - but were there. That's as much as I will say - I'm going to stop commenting on it now. Hope you'll understand.
It is a very upsetting incident. Not merely were the two people who died young and gifted, they were also trying to help others from a very different background who did not possess the advantages of a university education or a loving family. They were remarkable individuals, and it is very desolating that they are dead.
It is very hard not to cry when you read the comments of the father of Jack Merritt saying that his son would not “wish his death to be used as the pretext for more draconian sentences or for detaining people unnecessarily”.
And even more upsetting is that this incident -- which does need to be examined in due course with cool heads -- seems to have become a bargaining counter in a gross & dirty political game played out by the parties.
The unknown junior conservative politician is coming over as a robotic Tory clone instead of being positive it’s corbyn this Macdonald that, no thought or analysis just pre prepared quotes and attack lines it’s dull boring and an enormous turn off.
Unfortunately he reminds me of Ed Milliband with a tan.
Been travelling for 24 hours.... back in London, I am surprised to see the Tory pessimism on here. And I am prone to pressimism.
Looks pretty clear to me that the Tory lead has stabilised and probably widened again. 10-11%? And Boris' popularity has bounced back but as Corbyn's has fallen away once more.
This is surely a result of the Neil interview and the aftermath.
We are just 11 campaigning days from the GE. The Tories are 10-11 points ahead of a party led by a widely reviled leader. This is not cause for complacency, but it is surely cause for very timid OPTimism,
Been travelling for 24 hours.... back in London, I am surprised to see the Tory pessimism on here. And I am prone to pressimism.
Looks pretty clear to me that the Tory lead has stabilised and probably widened again. 10-11%? And Boris' popularity has bounced back but as Corbyn's has fallen away once more.
This is surely a result of the Neil interview and the aftermath.
We are just 11 campaigning days from the GE. The Tories are 10-11 points ahead of a party led by a widely reviled leader. This is not cause for complacency, but it is surely cause for very timid OPTimism,
Good post and we are actually 10 active campaign days away.
That is true for pretty much all human endeavors. Our lives are better across the board, our sportsmen are better trained, our hospitals and schools are better resourced and the education and health offered is much richer. Our roads are much safer, our air is much cleaner, our cars are much more reliable, our computers are much better and faster. It goes on and on and on.
Absolutely right. And IMO this applies to the arts too. Music, films, TV, novels, poetry, plays etc, all better now than they used to be. Why? Because wider access means more product, thus harder to stand out. Every week there are songs released that are as good as anything by the Beatles. Just that you won't come across them. Yes, progress in everything is inevitable. I believe that. We are even getting better looking. Well, we aren't, quite the opposite, but you know what I mean.
True, and its why that film Yesterday was just nostalgic mush. All those songs are fantastic. But our joy in hearing beatles songs is in how familiar we are with them and how they flood our minds with memories when we hear them.
My significant other got me onto an obscure artist that most people havent heard of. Having been forced to listen to many of his songs over the space of a couple of years i now listen to him a lot and some of them feel to me as good as those classics.
Sorry but I have to disagree. I cannot rate any modern composer with the likes of Schubert. No living artist can rival past masters such as Casper David Friedrich. And I defy anyone to find a play to equal Stoppard's Arcadia since it was written nearly 30 years ago. The real benefit of wider access is that it makes it easier to find the hidden gems from all eras. The example I like is Willy DeVille. A neglected genius in the UK and USA, I first heard his music in Germany (where he is still huge 10 years after his death), and youtube has given me the access to confirm his genius.
You'd rate Schubert ahead of Thom Yorke?
That's a gutsy call on here. People have been banned for less.
Been travelling for 24 hours.... back in London, I am surprised to see the Tory pessimism on here. And I am prone to pressimism.
Looks pretty clear to me that the Tory lead has stabilised and probably widened again. 10-11%? And Boris' popularity has bounced back but as Corbyn's has fallen away once more.
This is surely a result of the Neil interview and the aftermath.
We are just 11 campaigning days from the GE. The Tories are 10-11 points ahead of a party led by a widely reviled leader. This is not cause for complacency, but it is surely cause for very timid OPTimism,
It’s the stakes. Undershoot even slightly and Corbyn takes over. Notice the complete lack of Tory noises off (with the exception of Hezza and the sacked remainers). Everyone knows how much this one matters.
The unknown junior conservative politician is coming over as a robotic Tory clone instead of being positive it’s corbyn this Macdonald that, no thought or analysis just pre prepared quotes and attack lines it’s dull boring and an enormous turn off.
The word robot again. It’s because he thanks the person for the question and doesn’t go anywhere near answering, just some rehearsed attack lines. To be honest no one here actually answering audience questions.
Why does no one talk about bread and butter issues on the debate? "Bringing people together"? I read that people in Leigh moan about the 3 week bin collections, and probably everyone else in Britain too. If Boris promises to shift from 3 week bin collections to 1 week it would have far more impact with voters than vacuous slogans.
Why does no one talk about bread and butter issues on the debate? "Bringing people together"? I read that people in Leigh moan about the 3 week bin collections, and probably everyone else in Britain too. If Boris promises to shift from 3 week bin collections to 1 week it would have far more impact with voters than vacuous slogans.
Why does no one talk about bread and butter issues on the debate? "Bringing people together"? I read that people in Leigh moan about the 3 week bin collections, and probably everyone else in Britain too. If Boris promises to shift from 3 week bin collections to 1 week it would have far more impact with voters than vacuous slogans.
Why does no one talk about bread and butter issues on the debate? "Bringing people together"? I read that people in Leigh moan about the 3 week bin collections, and probably everyone else in Britain too. If Boris promises to shift from 3 week bin collections to 1 week it would have far more impact with voters than vacuous slogans.
Three weeks? Bloody hell. I’m less than brilliantly happy with two.
Sunak seems to be forgetting that he's been in government for a decade. These problems with the justice system are the Tories problems with the justice system.
And Burgon? Seems to be forgetting everything. As he keeps looking down at his notes on literally any subject
I’ve concluded that Labour now puts up Burgon as a comedy gift to the nation.
Why does no one talk about bread and butter issues on the debate? "Bringing people together"? I read that people in Leigh moan about the 3 week bin collections, and probably everyone else in Britain too. If Boris promises to shift from 3 week bin collections to 1 week it would have far more impact with voters than vacuous slogans.
Why does no one talk about bread and butter issues on the debate? "Bringing people together"? I read that people in Leigh moan about the 3 week bin collections, and probably everyone else in Britain too. If Boris promises to shift from 3 week bin collections to 1 week it would have far more impact with voters than vacuous slogans.
Why does no one talk about bread and butter issues on the debate? "Bringing people together"? I read that people in Leigh moan about the 3 week bin collections, and probably everyone else in Britain too. If Boris promises to shift from 3 week bin collections to 1 week it would have far more impact with voters than vacuous slogans.
4 week bin collection here in Aberconwy
How is that even tolerable
In our case it is not a problem as we do recycle a lot but it is a big problem for families
And they are about to introduce charges for picking up garden waste
Why does no one talk about bread and butter issues on the debate? "Bringing people together"? I read that people in Leigh moan about the 3 week bin collections, and probably everyone else in Britain too. If Boris promises to shift from 3 week bin collections to 1 week it would have far more impact with voters than vacuous slogans.
Has Corbyn laid a wreath for the London Bridge terrorist yet?
Can you please stop making such utterly offensive remarks
He has form at being offensive.
Quite easy to rile these Corbynistas by insulting their messiah.
There is an argument he shouldn’t have been shot though? And Corbyn far too quick (only because its election) to say he was rightly shot.
Who is making the argument that the police made the wrong decision? God, corbyn for all his faults is now accused of being far to quick to agree with the action the police took what do you want him to do?
He said it but he doesn't believe it, and I think if he got into power, the 'shoot to kill' policy would be quashed. I do not believe for one instant Corbyn would take steps to protect this country from enemy attacks. Why would he? He's spent most of his adult life giving succour to our enemies.
People had been thumping and kicking him for 5 or 10 minutes before police shot him, and his apparent vest had not gone off. the fact is it’s not just this one wearing fake vest, the three shot before had fake vest for a reason, suckering us into martyring them the way they choose, with state bullets. To deny them that, and to be able to learn from their questioning things that may save other lives is far better wherever possible imo. If you disagree with me on that, fine, it means they are not screwing up our free speech as they want and our decent fair way of life. I think I have put forward a thoughtful and rational argument.
Anyway, labour sub 200 nailed on, Burgon is the stand in leader 🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪
The first armed officer to arrive, isn't going to conduct an interview to ascertain how long people had been grappling with this Darwin award winner. They're going to look at the evidence before them and react to it accordingly. In this case killing him. They don't have the luxury of time.
Why does no one talk about bread and butter issues on the debate? "Bringing people together"? I read that people in Leigh moan about the 3 week bin collections, and probably everyone else in Britain too. If Boris promises to shift from 3 week bin collections to 1 week it would have far more impact with voters than vacuous slogans.
4 week bin collection here in Aberconwy
How is that even tolerable
This really is the stuff that matters. Round my way a promise to restore weekly bin collections and reinstate proper street lighting would get a majority for anyone.
Why does no one talk about bread and butter issues on the debate? "Bringing people together"? I read that people in Leigh moan about the 3 week bin collections, and probably everyone else in Britain too. If Boris promises to shift from 3 week bin collections to 1 week it would have far more impact with voters than vacuous slogans.
Why does no one talk about bread and butter issues on the debate? "Bringing people together"? I read that people in Leigh moan about the 3 week bin collections, and probably everyone else in Britain too. If Boris promises to shift from 3 week bin collections to 1 week it would have far more impact with voters than vacuous slogans.
4 week bin collection here in Aberconwy
How is that even tolerable
In our case it is not a problem as we do recycle a lot but it is a big problem for families
And they are about to introduce charges for picking up garden waste
I hope they pick up food waste more regularly than that.
Won’t answer the wto exit end of 2010 issue hiding behind claiming they have deal, this is the biggest con unless they sign up for total alignment with the EU it’s going to take a lot longer than five months, which is all they have before having to ask for an extension.
Why does no one talk about bread and butter issues on the debate? "Bringing people together"? I read that people in Leigh moan about the 3 week bin collections, and probably everyone else in Britain too. If Boris promises to shift from 3 week bin collections to 1 week it would have far more impact with voters than vacuous slogans.
Why does no one talk about bread and butter issues on the debate? "Bringing people together"? I read that people in Leigh moan about the 3 week bin collections, and probably everyone else in Britain too. If Boris promises to shift from 3 week bin collections to 1 week it would have far more impact with voters than vacuous slogans.
4 week bin collection here in Aberconwy
How is that even tolerable
This really is the stuff that matters. Round my way a promise to restore weekly bin collections and reinstate proper street lighting would get a majority for anyone.
Lets all talk to HYUFD about it, he might convince the Conservatives to announce something about it next week.
Why does no one talk about bread and butter issues on the debate? "Bringing people together"? I read that people in Leigh moan about the 3 week bin collections, and probably everyone else in Britain too. If Boris promises to shift from 3 week bin collections to 1 week it would have far more impact with voters than vacuous slogans.
Why does no one talk about bread and butter issues on the debate? "Bringing people together"? I read that people in Leigh moan about the 3 week bin collections, and probably everyone else in Britain too. If Boris promises to shift from 3 week bin collections to 1 week it would have far more impact with voters than vacuous slogans.
Why does no one talk about bread and butter issues on the debate? "Bringing people together"? I read that people in Leigh moan about the 3 week bin collections, and probably everyone else in Britain too. If Boris promises to shift from 3 week bin collections to 1 week it would have far more impact with voters than vacuous slogans.
Sunak seems to be forgetting that he's been in government for a decade. These problems with the justice system are the Tories problems with the justice system.
And Burgon? Seems to be forgetting everything. As he keeps looking down at his notes on literally any subject
I’ve concluded that Labour now puts up Burgon as a comedy gift to the nation.
That would work, if he were in any way funny.
If this a Shakespearean battle scene Burgon would already be on his back with numerous spears in him. He’s not even in this debate, Labour would have got more credible rebuttal if sent a punchbag. Next spear incoming. Ernest Hemingway would have enjoyed what is happening to Burgon here.
Good news for Tories, the robot just crushed Farage in that exchange!
Why does no one talk about bread and butter issues on the debate? "Bringing people together"? I read that people in Leigh moan about the 3 week bin collections, and probably everyone else in Britain too. If Boris promises to shift from 3 week bin collections to 1 week it would have far more impact with voters than vacuous slogans.
4 week bin collection here in Aberconwy
How is that even tolerable
In our case it is not a problem as we do recycle a lot but it is a big problem for families
And they are about to introduce charges for picking up garden waste
I hope they pick up food waste more regularly than that.
Comments
Radio head
Excessive meaningless twitter reposts
Extensive Godwin references
May get you banned
https://www.britishelectionstudy.com/bes-impact/the-myth-of-the-2017-youthquake-election/
Basically any poll with a lead less than 6-8% would give a hung parliament.
About to brave the "Boris" interview now. Will report back with my usual brutally honest assessment.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42747342
Youth turnout was thought to have been in the 60s in the immediate aftermath. Better studies since have mostly dispelled this view.
The lib dems seem to think they can say and do anything with impunity and not have to deal with the consequences.
I will.let you all know what happens.
I think its hard to imagine a deep personal connection with some organisers being the theme of your post.
That's as much as I will say - I'm going to stop commenting on it now. Hope you'll understand.
Paid shill is certainly possible but nothing that looks like fully automated posting.
I think it was Matt Singh or someone in the FT who made an estimated voting share based on best PM measures, when the gap between the incumbent and the oppo leader is at around 7% it should indicate a tie in the party shares.
When I saw both being favourable for Labour I placed my first bet on paddypower on a hung parliament about a week before the 2017 election.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/12/01/convicted-terrorism-offender-arrested-following-police-review/
To my mind, Justice Leveson needs to take a long look in the mirror as to how he was so easily hoodwinked by this man's defence team and his supposed contrition. The judge who gave the original sentence was of the opposite mind and clearly thought this man to be a permanent danger to the public.
The last Labour government clearly weren't in the business of letting terrorists go free, but due to a quirk of the law it has happened. My worry is that Jez and his mates would be in the business of letting terrorists go free.
There is a lot of disappointment, apathy and disillusionment. The only thing that the polls, the surveys and most canvassers can agree is that voters are unhappy with how things are.
Anyway, labour sub 200 nailed on, Burgon is the stand in leader 🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪
When I read it I wondered if Mr Quince would be tempted to ask for a retraction about a certain claim / innuendo contained therein.
Not me of course. Oh no. Never. Uh uh. Nope.
Secondly, you stand there and take that risk
After their shenanigans on the May exit date I would be very wary of any interpretations from Betfair though so dyor and caveat emptor unfortunately.
I agree with the comment above that high-ish 30s and Corbyn surely has the “right” to hang around and oversee the process that leads to his replacement (or be PM for a while if he does really well).
On the other hand a bad loss and presumably Labour would go into civil war mode. Absent Watson, I think there are then too many possibilities for how any interim successor would be chosen and/or defined for betting purposes.
Basically it’s scared me off.
Burgon is really annoying , I find his voice grates but clearly they’ve stuck on a Labour MP from the north with the appropriate accent to appeal to Labour Leave voters .
And Burgon? Seems to be forgetting everything. As he keeps looking down at his notes on literally any subject
They are a waste of time and a turn off
And as important they will not change a vote
https://twitter.com/Sunil_P2/status/1201090090656845824
Sturgeon and Farage show that they have the most political experience.
But everyone attacks the government for making a bad job on terrorism.
As for borgon. He is dire here. He is dire everywhere.
It is very hard not to cry when you read the comments of the father of Jack Merritt saying that his son would not “wish his death to be used as the pretext for more draconian sentences or for detaining people unnecessarily”.
And even more upsetting is that this incident -- which does need to be examined in due course with cool heads -- seems to have become a bargaining counter in a gross & dirty political game played out by the parties.
I wasn't going to vote anyhow.
Looks pretty clear to me that the Tory lead has stabilised and probably widened again. 10-11%? And Boris' popularity has bounced back but as Corbyn's has fallen away once more.
This is surely a result of the Neil interview and the aftermath.
We are just 11 campaigning days from the GE. The Tories are 10-11 points ahead of a party led by a widely reviled leader. This is not cause for complacency, but it is surely cause for very timid OPTimism,
"Bringing people together"? I read that people in Leigh moan about the 3 week bin collections, and probably everyone else in Britain too.
If Boris promises to shift from 3 week bin collections to 1 week it would have far more impact with voters than vacuous slogans.
And they are about to introduce charges for picking up garden waste
Ah, my coat.
Next spear incoming. Ernest Hemingway would have enjoyed what is happening to Burgon here.
Good news for Tories, the robot just crushed Farage in that exchange!
Burgon is laughable.