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  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    The Lib Dems need to do something or other and fast.

    Get Layla in for Swinson quick
    Layla could give the leadership a bash after Swinson
    If Chuka wins Cities of London and Westminster he will likely be next LD leader
    He won't.

    Nobody likes a hypocrite and splitter
    I see very little evidence in politics that people do not like hypocrites. Or if they don't like them, it doesn't stop them voting for them.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,149
    moonshine said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    The Lib Dems need to do something or other and fast.

    Get Layla in for Swinson quick
    Layla could give the leadership a bash after Swinson
    If Chuka wins Cities of London and Westminster he will likely be next LD leader
    He won't.

    Nobody likes a hypocrite and splitter
    Chuka seems a nice lad. He doesn’t strike me as a leader. Depends if the Lib Dem’s are happy to sit around talking to themselves in a nice and pleasant way, or want to become the second party post Corbyn. Equally I am mystified why anyone thinks the quite peculiar seeming Layla Moran would be fairing better than Swinson.
    Chuka certainly looks more like a PM than Corbyn, Pidcock and Long-Bailey
  • HYUFD said:

    moonshine said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    The Lib Dems need to do something or other and fast.

    Get Layla in for Swinson quick
    Layla could give the leadership a bash after Swinson
    If Chuka wins Cities of London and Westminster he will likely be next LD leader
    He won't.

    Nobody likes a hypocrite and splitter
    Chuka seems a nice lad. He doesn’t strike me as a leader. Depends if the Lib Dem’s are happy to sit around talking to themselves in a nice and pleasant way, or want to become the second party post Corbyn. Equally I am mystified why anyone thinks the quite peculiar seeming Layla Moran would be fairing better than Swinson.
    Chuka certainly looks more like a PM than Corbyn, Pidcock and Long-Bailey
    and therein lies their appeal
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    Unless The Sun have a poll (which tends to be released after midnight) that should be it for tonight's polls I think?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,236

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    The Lib Dems need to do something or other and fast.

    Get Layla in for Swinson quick
    Layla could give the leadership a bash after Swinson
    If Chuka wins Cities of London and Westminster he will likely be next LD leader
    If Layla was leader now I dont think they would have knee jerked Revoke and could see them taking many LAB and CON seats.

    Its wipeout under Tory Swinson
    The LibDems will gain seats and increase their share of the vote under Jo Swinson.

    But 2019 will also be an enormous missed opportunity for them. With a good leader (no Layla Moran was not the one), someone of Ashdown or Kennedy or Steel's calibre, they would probably have gotten in the 20s, vote share-wise, and be challenging Labour for second place.

    Of course, Jo Swinson may well grow into the job, but I think she's clearly made some fairly substantial errors. There's the crazy cult of personality stuff, the leaflets with her face on it, and the revoke pledge.
  • HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    The Lib Dems need to do something or other and fast.

    Get Layla in for Swinson quick
    Layla could give the leadership a bash after Swinson
    If Chuka wins Cities of London and Westminster he will likely be next LD leader
    I think that's right but he has to win on December 12th
  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    HYUFD said:


    Chuka certainly looks more like a PM than Corbyn, Pidcock and Long-Bailey

    So does the spider that just crawled through my air vent. Not a high bar.

  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    moonshine said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    The Lib Dems need to do something or other and fast.

    Get Layla in for Swinson quick
    Layla could give the leadership a bash after Swinson
    If Chuka wins Cities of London and Westminster he will likely be next LD leader
    He won't.

    Nobody likes a hypocrite and splitter
    Chuka seems a nice lad. He doesn’t strike me as a leader. Depends if the Lib Dem’s are happy to sit around talking to themselves in a nice and pleasant way, or want to become the second party post Corbyn. Equally I am mystified why anyone thinks the quite peculiar seeming Layla Moran would be fairing better than Swinson.
    A party purporting to be slightly left of centre cannot behave like it has under Tory Swinson

    Abstaining on not selling off the NHS to Trump

    Not allowing a 2 week GNU under the LOTO with one purpose of stopping No Deal

    And worst of all knee jerking to Revoke

    Layla LDs wouldnt have gone down this dead end.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424
    HYUFD said:

    moonshine said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    The Lib Dems need to do something or other and fast.

    Get Layla in for Swinson quick
    Layla could give the leadership a bash after Swinson
    If Chuka wins Cities of London and Westminster he will likely be next LD leader
    He won't.

    Nobody likes a hypocrite and splitter
    Chuka seems a nice lad. He doesn’t strike me as a leader. Depends if the Lib Dem’s are happy to sit around talking to themselves in a nice and pleasant way, or want to become the second party post Corbyn. Equally I am mystified why anyone thinks the quite peculiar seeming Layla Moran would be fairing better than Swinson.
    Chuka certainly looks more like a PM than Corbyn, Pidcock and Long-Bailey
    That’s a bit like saying somebody ran a sounder monetary policy than Robert Mugabe.
  • PaulMPaulM Posts: 613

    Gabs2 said:

    egg said:

    Gabs2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    I doubt Warren' health plans will hit her with Democratic primary voters, with general election voters maybe

    Democratic primary voters are more moderate than you think.
    I doubt they are moderate on taxing billionaires more. Even Republican voters seem to like that.
    I’m still doubtful billionaires pay tax.
    I feel more confident they would with Warren as President.
    If Warren were President and Johnson PM then yes I'm very confident we'd get more billionaires paying tax in the UK - and Ireland would too.
    The US tax code, unlike most others, taxes all citizens on global income, wherever they might live. So whereas a UK citizen seeking to avoid UK income tax could decamp to Monaco or the like, a US citizen can't avoid federal tax by permamently leaving the US. They would have to revoke their citizenship, which the IRS can challenge (and did in the case of some Heinz executives who renounced their US citizenship and moved to Ireland)
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,605
    edited November 2019
    Putting latest polls into model gives:

    Con 37.0% (+2.1)
    Lab 25.9 (+1.5)
    LD 17.0% (-1.3)
    BXP 10.7% (-1.5)
    Green 4.0% (-0.5)

    Con 320 (+8)
    Lab 224 (+2)
    LD 35 (-11)

    Individual English constituencies here:

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hCm3uVr3Z6DI4nFxUjmOyKRGZPNqOLu1BMKVeZvv3T8/edit?usp=sharing
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,236
    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    I doubt Warren' health plans will hit her with Democratic primary voters, with general election voters maybe

    Democratic primary voters are more moderate than you think.
    With Sanders and Warren leading New Hampshire and Iowa in most polls now not at the moment
    I think we're being fooled by there only being two left wing candidates and about a dozen moderates. Klobuchar, Booker, O'Rourke, Yang, Castro are all on the moderate wing of the Democrats. Their votes will go to the moderate most likely to beat Warren. And the big shift that's happening right now, is that Buttigieg is grabbing that mantle from Biden.

    Now, his strategy is predicated on winning in Iowa (which may well not happen), but if he does, then he'll place top two in New Hampshire, and I think consolidate the moderate vote around himself. It'll be Warren vs Buttigieg all the way to the convention. And I think he wins over her.

    I'd note that there has been some recent polling to back this up: 52% of Democratic primary voters want a moderate, only 40% want someone on the left of the party.
  • eggegg Posts: 1,749
    moonshine said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    The Lib Dems need to do something or other and fast.

    Get Layla in for Swinson quick
    Layla could give the leadership a bash after Swinson
    If Chuka wins Cities of London and Westminster he will likely be next LD leader
    He won't.

    Nobody likes a hypocrite and splitter
    Chuka seems a nice lad. He doesn’t strike me as a leader. Depends if the Lib Dem’s are happy to sit around talking to themselves in a nice and pleasant way, or want to become the second party post Corbyn. Equally I am mystified why anyone thinks the quite peculiar seeming Layla Moran would be fairing better than Swinson.
    Way out in front to be labour leader before he pulled out.

    Counterfactual time, what if he didn’t pull out? Would Corbyn still have beaten him?

    With a energetically remain labour leadership 2016 result might have gone the other way.
    the entryism wouldn’t have happened. The leadership office v PLP war wouldn’t have happened. The shadow cabinet would have a rather more moderate and talented look to it all this time. And PM austerity Osborne would be facing a 2020 election about 15 points down at Christmas.

    What a fine decision maker the temperamental flounce Chuck is. I’m with BIgjohn, kick him out of politics.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,751
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    The Lib Dems need to do something or other and fast.

    Get Layla in for Swinson quick
    Layla could give the leadership a bash after Swinson
    If Chuka wins Cities of London and Westminster he will likely be next LD leader
    If Layla was leader now I dont think they would have knee jerked Revoke and could see them taking many LAB and CON seats.

    Its wipeout under Tory Swinson
    The LibDems will gain seats and increase their share of the vote under Jo Swinson.

    But 2019 will also be an enormous missed opportunity for them. With a good leader (no Layla Moran was not the one), someone of Ashdown or Kennedy or Steel's calibre, they would probably have gotten in the 20s, vote share-wise, and be challenging Labour for second place.

    Of course, Jo Swinson may well grow into the job, but I think she's clearly made some fairly substantial errors. There's the crazy cult of personality stuff, the leaflets with her face on it, and the revoke pledge.
    The trouble they had was that they didn’t have a Paddy or a Charlie. If they’d persuaded Gina Miller to do it I reckon they’d be racing towards the high 20s or evening above 30% by now.

    Or George Osborne for that matter.

  • Abstaining on not selling off the NHS to Trump

    IIUC that's not what the motion you're thinking of actually said...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424
    egg said:

    moonshine said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    The Lib Dems need to do something or other and fast.

    Get Layla in for Swinson quick
    Layla could give the leadership a bash after Swinson
    If Chuka wins Cities of London and Westminster he will likely be next LD leader
    He won't.

    Nobody likes a hypocrite and splitter
    Chuka seems a nice lad. He doesn’t strike me as a leader. Depends if the Lib Dem’s are happy to sit around talking to themselves in a nice and pleasant way, or want to become the second party post Corbyn. Equally I am mystified why anyone thinks the quite peculiar seeming Layla Moran would be fairing better than Swinson.
    Way out in front to be labour leader before he pulled out.

    Counterfactual time, what if he didn’t pull out? Would Corbyn still have beaten him?
    Yes. Corbyn’s victory was nothing to do with leadership. It still isn’t or he would have been out months ago. He simply isn’t a leader. He hasn’t the brains, the drive, the imagination or the skill for it.

    Corbyn was elected and holds his position simply because he allows ordinary Labour members to feel they are still the propah socialists of the 80s, facing down the big issues of our time, rather than a group of politicians with an eye to the main chance of power.

    Ummuna could not have competed with that. Nor should he have tried to, he would therefore have lost.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,236
    nico67 said:

    The squeeze of the Lib Dem vote has already started . They’ll be doing well to get 10% to 12% of the vote in the GE.

    So, if they'd be lucky to get 10-12%, what's the midpoint in your view?
  • Ave_itAve_it Posts: 2,411
    Barnesian said:

    Putting latest polls into model gives:

    Con 37.0% (+2.1)
    Lab 25.9 (+1.5)
    LD 17.0% (-1.3)
    BXP 10.7% (-1.5)
    Green 4.0% (-0.5)

    Con 320 (+8)
    Lab 224 (+2)
    LD 35 (-11)

    Individual English constituencies here:

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hCm3uVr3Z6DI4nFxUjmOyKRGZPNqOLu1BMKVeZvv3T8/edit?usp=sharing

    Yes being serious it's bang on. CON may or may not get an overall majority
  • eggegg Posts: 1,749
    edited November 2019
    Barnesian said:

    Putting latest polls into model gives:

    Con 37.0% (+2.1)
    Lab 25.9 (+1.5)
    LD 17.0% (-1.3)
    BXP 10.7% (-1.5)
    Green 4.0% (-0.5)

    Con 320 (+8)
    Lab 224 (+2)
    LD 35 (-11)

    Individual English constituencies here:

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hCm3uVr3Z6DI4nFxUjmOyKRGZPNqOLu1BMKVeZvv3T8/edit?usp=sharing

    This is my favourite model. The Big Barney. It rings true straightaway. The direction of travel there to see in seat numbers from the last Barney.

    We’ll let you sleep now before the next set of polls. 😌
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,605
    nico67 said:

    The squeeze of the Lib Dem vote has already started . They’ll be doing well to get 10% to 12% of the vote in the GE.

    The squeeze is fine and welcome in 500 seats to allow Labour to come through. In the other 100 target LD seats the LD share may be going up, even if the national LD share is going down. This all looks good to me.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,131
    Pulpstar said:

    Anyway I've stuck £200 on Labour this evening....

    In the name of the Lord above, why did you do that?

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,236

    No i have that as a LD Gain TBF

    Lose Norfolk North and Eastbourne in a terrible night for Tory Swinson

    I doubt they'll lose Eastbourne. Their MP is practically an independent, who only just rejoined the party ahead of the election. He's promised his constituents he would vote for Brexit, and split with the LDs over that issue. I'm sure he'll make a similar promise this time around (and stick to it).

  • eggegg Posts: 1,749
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    moonshine said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    The Lib Dems need to do something or other and fast.

    Get Layla in for Swinson quick
    Layla could give the leadership a bash after Swinson
    If Chuka wins Cities of London and Westminster he will likely be next LD leader
    He won't.

    Nobody likes a hypocrite and splitter
    Chuka seems a nice lad. He doesn’t strike me as a leader. Depends if the Lib Dem’s are happy to sit around talking to themselves in a nice and pleasant way, or want to become the second party post Corbyn. Equally I am mystified why anyone thinks the quite peculiar seeming Layla Moran would be fairing better than Swinson.
    Chuka certainly looks more like a PM than Corbyn, Pidcock and Long-Bailey
    That’s a bit like saying somebody ran a sounder monetary policy than Robert Mugabe.
    Ah the Doctors arrived. Can you take a look at Penis Town, there’s a funny tinge according to Big John.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,903
    edited November 2019
    egg said:

    moonshine said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    The Lib Dems need to do something or other and fast.

    Get Layla in for Swinson quick
    Layla could give the leadership a bash after Swinson
    If Chuka wins Cities of London and Westminster he will likely be next LD leader
    He won't.

    Nobody likes a hypocrite and splitter
    Chuka seems a nice lad. He doesn’t strike me as a leader. Depends if the Lib Dem’s are happy to sit around talking to themselves in a nice and pleasant way, or want to become the second party post Corbyn. Equally I am mystified why anyone thinks the quite peculiar seeming Layla Moran would be fairing better than Swinson.
    Way out in front to be labour leader before he pulled out.

    Counterfactual time, what if he didn’t pull out? Would Corbyn still have beaten him?

    With a energetically remain labour leadership 2016 result might have gone the other way.
    the entryism wouldn’t have happened. The leadership office v PLP war wouldn’t have happened. The shadow cabinet would have a rather more moderate and talented look to it all this time. And PM austerity Osborne would be facing a 2020 election about 15 points down at Christmas.

    What a fine decision maker the temperamental flounce Chuck is. I’m with BIgjohn, kick him out of politics.
    Didn't he have skeletons in the cupboard...? Though I entirely agree. I was enthused by Chuka when he announced he was running for leader. And seriously contemplated TIG when he did that. And here I am in the LibDems having watched an interview he gave after joining where I agreed with everything he said.

    In other news, back in the UK after a glorious week in Spain. Last night's family BBQ in balmy hot sultry evening followed by outdoor bar, Then fly home and its 6c and tipping down. Need to rethink the life plan so that it has far more Spain in it...
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    Floater said:

    So tonights polls have leads of 8,8,12,12,16 average lead 11.2%

    Or 10% if you ignore the outlier...

    Is it too late for a Labour leadership election before polling day?
    Which of the lunatics do you want running the asylum?

    Because it wont be a moderate
    Straight answer - Starmer.

    Wild card, post-defeat - Jess Phillips
    I don't rate Starmer but I would class him as a moderate - therefore he will not get the gig.

    The Labour you grew up with has gone.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,534
    Barnesian said:

    nico67 said:

    The squeeze of the Lib Dem vote has already started . They’ll be doing well to get 10% to 12% of the vote in the GE.

    The squeeze is fine and welcome in 500 seats to allow Labour to come through. In the other 100 target LD seats the LD share may be going up, even if the national LD share is going down. This all looks good to me.
    Yes, I hope so. Fascinating looking at your model - lots of seats hanging on a knife-edge of 0-3% there. The ones I know about look plausible.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,213
    viewcode said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Anyway I've stuck £200 on Labour this evening....

    In the name of the Lord above, why did you do that?

    Any other election Barnsley and Doncaster would be 1-100 ?
  • Ave_itAve_it Posts: 2,411
    Pulpstar said:

    viewcode said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Anyway I've stuck £200 on Labour this evening....

    In the name of the Lord above, why did you do that?

    Any other election Barnsley and Doncaster would be 1-100 ?
    Phew I am less scared now because I value your betting views. Yes those are 1-100 real value. I thought you may have put that on LAB largest party
  • eggegg Posts: 1,749

    egg said:

    moonshine said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    The Lib Dems need to do something or other and fast.

    Get Layla in for Swinson quick
    Layla could give the leadership a bash after Swinson
    If Chuka wins Cities of London and Westminster he will likely be next LD leader
    He won't.

    Nobody likes a hypocrite and splitter
    Chuka seems a nice lad. He doesn’t strike me as a leader. Depends if the Lib Dem’s are happy to sit around talking to themselves in a nice and pleasant way, or want to become the second party post Corbyn. Equally I am mystified why anyone thinks the quite peculiar seeming Layla Moran would be fairing better than Swinson.
    Way out in front to be labour leader before he pulled out.

    Counterfactual time, what if he didn’t pull out? Would Corbyn still have beaten him?

    With a energetically remain labour leadership 2016 result might have gone the other way.
    the entryism wouldn’t have happened. The leadership office v PLP war wouldn’t have happened. The shadow cabinet would have a rather more moderate and talented look to it all this time. And PM austerity Osborne would be facing a 2020 election about 15 points down at Christmas.

    What a fine decision maker the temperamental flounce Chuck is. I’m with BIgjohn, kick him out of politics.
    Didn't he have skeletons in the cupboard...? Though I entirely agree. I was enthused by Chuka when he announced he was running for leader. And seriously contemplated TIG when he did that. And here I am in the LibDems having watched an interview he gave after joining where I agreed with everything he said.

    In other news, back in the UK after a glorious week in Spain. Last night's family BBQ in balmy hot sultry evening followed by outdoor bar, Then fly home and its 6c and tipping down. Need to rethink the life plan so that it has far more Spain in it...
    They’d still be there wouldn’t they, rattling away.

    The Doctor below reckons Corbyn would still have happened, I’m not so sure, the bookies had Chuck virtually nailed on, when the candidate so obviously front runner pulled out it opened the door for Corbyn. The rest is history.

    Is Chucks running away really from mistake he made himself? In which case he will never hide, not even as a Lib Dem counsellor. Not even back in the city.
  • Ave_itAve_it Posts: 2,411
    My PC isn't working very well. Does Layla know anything about PC maintenance?

    😊😊😊
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,213
    Ave_it said:

    Pulpstar said:

    viewcode said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Anyway I've stuck £200 on Labour this evening....

    In the name of the Lord above, why did you do that?

    Any other election Barnsley and Doncaster would be 1-100 ?
    Phew I am less scared now because I value your betting views. Yes those are 1-100 real value. I thought you may have put that on LAB largest party
    No. I am backing Bozza £250 1-5 for Tories largest party
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,213
    rcs1000 said:

    No i have that as a LD Gain TBF

    Lose Norfolk North and Eastbourne in a terrible night for Tory Swinson

    I doubt they'll lose Eastbourne. Their MP is practically an independent, who only just rejoined the party ahead of the election. He's promised his constituents he would vote for Brexit, and split with the LDs over that issue. I'm sure he'll make a similar promise this time around (and stick to it).

    He's promised to back remain this time round and been very clear about it
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,534
    While I think Swinson has made mistakes, people are writing the LibDems off too quickly on this thread. They were always likely to be squeezed nationally and the "fight everywhere and win a majority!" plan, if it really existed, needs to be binned. But if they focus on their targets they should come out ahead.
  • Ave_itAve_it Posts: 2,411
    Good call Pulpstar I think we are 1-33 on that 1-5 is good bet
  • Ave_itAve_it Posts: 2,411

    While I think Swinson has made mistakes, people are writing the LibDems off too quickly on this thread. They were always likely to be squeezed nationally and the "fight everywhere and win a majority!" plan, if it really existed, needs to be binned. But if they focus on their targets they should come out ahead.

    Nick do you think Super Jo will beat your lot? 😊
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,213
    Jezza might pull it back a bit but largest party is a huge ask
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,131
    Pulpstar said:

    viewcode said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Anyway I've stuck £200 on Labour this evening....

    In the name of the Lord above, why did you do that?

    Any other election Barnsley and Doncaster would be 1-100 ?
    Oh I'm sorry, I thought you meant Labour most seats/overall majority nationwide. Sorry for the confusion.

    I remember in EU2016 @Casino_Royale reported somebody doubling their bet to £20K just to settle an argument. I wanted to know if this was a similarly emotion-driven bet, hence my question about motive.
  • While I think Swinson has made mistakes, people are writing the LibDems off too quickly on this thread. They were always likely to be squeezed nationally and the "fight everywhere and win a majority!" plan, if it really existed, needs to be binned. But if they focus on their targets they should come out ahead.

    Me and thee have had a difference of opinion. But on this I entirely agree. This year the polls have swung violently. In 2017's campaign the polls swung violently. Some people seem insistent that there will be no poll swings violent or otherwise during this campaign - which feels odd.

    One example of game changing events. In a few weeks time ITV are putting Corbyn and Johnson head to head on live TV. It will be a very painful hour of TV, reinforcing to voters just why they hate the pair of them so much. My new lot have made the point that the choice of debatees of leave vs leave is absurd, but its in our interests not to be there. The more time Johnson and Corbyn have on screen smothering each other to death the better.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,236
    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    No i have that as a LD Gain TBF

    Lose Norfolk North and Eastbourne in a terrible night for Tory Swinson

    I doubt they'll lose Eastbourne. Their MP is practically an independent, who only just rejoined the party ahead of the election. He's promised his constituents he would vote for Brexit, and split with the LDs over that issue. I'm sure he'll make a similar promise this time around (and stick to it).

    He's promised to back remain this time round and been very clear about it
    I think that's pretty foolish of him. (Although I guess he may get some credit from his constituents for being a man of his word.)
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,213
    viewcode said:

    Pulpstar said:

    viewcode said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Anyway I've stuck £200 on Labour this evening....

    In the name of the Lord above, why did you do that?

    Any other election Barnsley and Doncaster would be 1-100 ?
    Oh I'm sorry, I thought you meant Labour most seats/overall majority nationwide. Sorry for the confusion.

    I remember in EU2016 @Casino_Royale reported somebody doubling their bet to £20K just to settle an argument. I wanted to know if this was a similarly emotion-driven bet, hence my question about motive.
    Good lord no. I have bets on all parties
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    edited November 2019

    One example of game changing events. In a few weeks time ITV are putting Corbyn and Johnson head to head on live TV. It will be a very painful hour of TV, reinforcing to voters just why they hate the pair of them so much. My new lot have made the point that the choice of debatees of leave vs leave is absurd, but its in our interests not to be there. The more time Johnson and Corbyn have on screen smothering each other to death the better.

    OK, but how does Swinson even get herself on the telly at all? If Corbyn and Johnson lock her out of the debates, which I guess they can, how does she get coverage? I guess she could do a head-to-head with Farage???
  • PaulMPaulM Posts: 613
    Pulpstar said:

    Anyway I've stuck £200 on Labour this evening. £50 on Miliband 1-2 to hold £50 Barnsley Central 2-7 and £100 vote share match bet Vs Lib Dems 1-4

    Where was this 1/2 on Milliband winning. Was it a proper bookie or a betfair loon ? That makes no sense - if there really is a 33% chance of him losing that seat then either i) someone has inside info and has bet accordingly or ii) Labour are facing a ScotLab style collapse (which frankly isn't reflected in the seats betting)

    I'd almost be scared to take that bet as the price seems that out of sync with everything else we know that I'd fear there must be some crazy tabloid story in the works.
  • One example of game changing events. In a few weeks time ITV are putting Corbyn and Johnson head to head on live TV. It will be a very painful hour of TV, reinforcing to voters just why they hate the pair of them so much. My new lot have made the point that the choice of debatees of leave vs leave is absurd, but its in our interests not to be there. The more time Johnson and Corbyn have on screen smothering each other to death the better.

    OK, but how does Swinson even get herself on the telly at all? If Corbyn and Johnson lock her out of the debates, which I guess they can, how does she get coverage? I guess she could do a head-to-head with Farage???
    I expect that some debates will happen with a spread of candidates. TBH Swinson vs Farage would be good. We either do Brexit or we don't. What is the point in voting for sort-of Brexit offered by Johnson or Corbyn?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,213
    PaulM said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Anyway I've stuck £200 on Labour this evening. £50 on Miliband 1-2 to hold £50 Barnsley Central 2-7 and £100 vote share match bet Vs Lib Dems 1-4

    Where was this 1/2 on Milliband winning. Was it a proper bookie or a betfair loon ? That makes no sense - if there really is a 33% chance of him losing that seat then either i) someone has inside info and has bet accordingly or ii) Labour are facing a ScotLab style collapse (which frankly isn't reflected in the seats betting)

    I'd almost be scared to take that bet as the price seems that out of sync with everything else we know that I'd fear there must be some crazy tabloid story in the works.
    Skybet
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    edited November 2019
    Betting post for desperate money-buyers only: on Betfair's month of the next election market, December has been backed off the boards; there is no money left.

    But in its year of the next election market, there is still almost £7,000 of 1.01 available on 2019.
  • Barnesian said:

    Putting latest polls into model gives:

    Con 37.0% (+2.1)
    Lab 25.9 (+1.5)
    LD 17.0% (-1.3)
    BXP 10.7% (-1.5)
    Green 4.0% (-0.5)

    Con 320 (+8)
    Lab 224 (+2)
    LD 35 (-11)

    Individual English constituencies here:

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hCm3uVr3Z6DI4nFxUjmOyKRGZPNqOLu1BMKVeZvv3T8/edit?usp=sharing

    Evening Barnesian

    Going through your sheet I am confused where you get your headline numbers you have reported here from.

    Adding up the gains an losses I see the Tories only making 4 gains overall in England on your spreadsheet. And there are no Labour gains listed at all in spite of loads of Labour losses.

    Where do you expect the extra 4 Tory gains to come from and a whole load of Labour gains to compensate for their losses in England?
  • TheGreenMachineTheGreenMachine Posts: 1,090
    edited November 2019
    Hi folks, what are your northern Ireland constituency predictions and whos the best bet?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,213

    Hi folks, what are your northern Ireland constituency predictions and whos the best bet?

    Welcome to life below the line :)

    NI always tricky to assess because it's not polled too regularly
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    Great tip @pulpstar - No way should Labour be the same odds of winning Doncaster North as Brighton Kemptown.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,213
    tlg86 said:

    Great tip @pulpstar - No way should Labour be the same odds of winning Doncaster North as Brighton Kemptown.

    Someone else spotted it earlier but too good not to spread once we've had a bite
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,213
    @another_richard Source of the tips for Barnsley and Donny
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,615
    Barnesian said:

    Putting latest polls into model gives:

    Con 37.0% (+2.1)
    Lab 25.9 (+1.5)
    LD 17.0% (-1.3)
    BXP 10.7% (-1.5)
    Green 4.0% (-0.5)

    Con 320 (+8)
    Lab 224 (+2)
    LD 35 (-11)

    Individual English constituencies here:

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hCm3uVr3Z6DI4nFxUjmOyKRGZPNqOLu1BMKVeZvv3T8/edit?usp=sharing

    You still have Buckingham for the Speaker. Chalk another up for the blue column.....
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,615

    Barnesian said:

    Putting latest polls into model gives:

    Con 37.0% (+2.1)
    Lab 25.9 (+1.5)
    LD 17.0% (-1.3)
    BXP 10.7% (-1.5)
    Green 4.0% (-0.5)

    Con 320 (+8)
    Lab 224 (+2)
    LD 35 (-11)

    Individual English constituencies here:

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hCm3uVr3Z6DI4nFxUjmOyKRGZPNqOLu1BMKVeZvv3T8/edit?usp=sharing

    You still have Buckingham for the Speaker. Chalk another up for the blue column.....
    ....and if you want a side bet that Torbay is going LibDem, Iet me know what terms you are offering. That one ain't happening. Kevin Foster nurtures that seat like he is a LibDem.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,605
    edited November 2019

    Barnesian said:

    Putting latest polls into model gives:

    Con 37.0% (+2.1)
    Lab 25.9 (+1.5)
    LD 17.0% (-1.3)
    BXP 10.7% (-1.5)
    Green 4.0% (-0.5)

    Con 320 (+8)
    Lab 224 (+2)
    LD 35 (-11)

    Individual English constituencies here:

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hCm3uVr3Z6DI4nFxUjmOyKRGZPNqOLu1BMKVeZvv3T8/edit?usp=sharing

    Evening Barnesian

    Going through your sheet I am confused where you get your headline numbers you have reported here from.

    Adding up the gains an losses I see the Tories only making 4 gains overall in England on your spreadsheet. And there are no Labour gains listed at all in spite of loads of Labour losses.

    Where do you expect the extra 4 Tory gains to come from and a whole load of Labour gains to compensate for their losses in England?
    In my spreadsheet the Tories make 26 gains from Labour and lose 19 to the LibDems making net gain of 7. (Have you assumed that all the LibDem gains are from the Tories?)

    In my model, Labour get 224 seats in GB compared with 262 last time, i.e. a net loss of 38, 30 of them in England. No gains at all in England.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,605

    Barnesian said:

    Putting latest polls into model gives:

    Con 37.0% (+2.1)
    Lab 25.9 (+1.5)
    LD 17.0% (-1.3)
    BXP 10.7% (-1.5)
    Green 4.0% (-0.5)

    Con 320 (+8)
    Lab 224 (+2)
    LD 35 (-11)

    Individual English constituencies here:

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hCm3uVr3Z6DI4nFxUjmOyKRGZPNqOLu1BMKVeZvv3T8/edit?usp=sharing

    You still have Buckingham for the Speaker. Chalk another up for the blue column.....
    Yes - good point.
  • camelcamel Posts: 815
    LibDems 5/6 to get 44.5 seats or less.
    Initially I felt that they might hoover up some female votes from the tories and remainer votes from labour, but can only model 12 gains and 6 possibles

    I cannot see where they can rack up 33gains.

    Which consituencies am I missing, or all in at 5/6?

    Gains:

    Richmond Park
    Ceredigion
    St Ives
    Brecon and RadnorshireCheadle
    Leeds North West
    Lewes
    St Albans
    Southport
    Wells
    Hazel Grove
    Cornwall North
    Brecon and Radnorshire

    Possibles:

    Fife North East
    Winchester
    Ross, Skye and Lochaber
    Bermondsey and Old Southwark
    Cambridge
    Brecon and Radnorshire
  • camel said:

    LibDems 5/6 to get 44.5 seats or less.
    Initially I felt that they might hoover up some female votes from the tories and remainer votes from labour, but can only model 12 gains and 6 possibles

    I cannot see where they can rack up 33gains.

    Which consituencies am I missing, or all in at 5/6?

    Gains:

    Richmond Park
    Ceredigion
    St Ives
    Brecon and RadnorshireCheadle
    Leeds North West
    Lewes
    St Albans
    Southport
    Wells
    Hazel Grove
    Cornwall North
    Brecon and Radnorshire

    Possibles:

    Fife North East
    Winchester
    Ross, Skye and Lochaber
    Bermondsey and Old Southwark
    Cambridge
    Brecon and Radnorshire

    Sounds good, which bookmakers?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    It looks to me that the value is betting on short price favourites in the constituency bets.

    If you're looking for a longer odds bet at the moment, William Hill are offering 50-1 on Sheff Utd to finish in the Top 6.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,605
    camel said:

    LibDems 5/6 to get 44.5 seats or less.
    Initially I felt that they might hoover up some female votes from the tories and remainer votes from labour, but can only model 12 gains and 6 possibles

    I cannot see where they can rack up 33gains.

    Which consituencies am I missing, or all in at 5/6?

    Gains:

    Richmond Park
    Ceredigion
    St Ives
    Brecon and RadnorshireCheadle
    Leeds North West
    Lewes
    St Albans
    Southport
    Wells
    Hazel Grove
    Cornwall North
    Brecon and Radnorshire

    Possibles:

    Fife North East
    Winchester
    Ross, Skye and Lochaber
    Bermondsey and Old Southwark
    Cambridge
    Brecon and Radnorshire

    Other possibles, some of them very tight

    Sheffield Hallam (not tight)
    Thornbury
    Torbay
    Taunton Deane
    Sutton and Cheam
    North Devon
    Eastleigh
    Chippenham
    Cheltenham
    Cheadle
  • camelcamel Posts: 815
    bet365
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    tlg86 said:

    It looks to me that the value is betting on short price favourites in the constituency bets.

    If you're looking for a longer odds bet at the moment, William Hill are offering 50-1 on Sheff Utd to finish in the Top 6.

    Love it to happen but mugs bet?
  • PaulMPaulM Posts: 613

    Hi folks, what are your northern Ireland constituency predictions and whos the best bet?

    Foyle might be interesting. Heavily nationalist seat (John Hume's old seat in Derry)
    Sinn Fein won last time for the first time ever by fewer than 200 votes from SDLP. SDLP leader Colm Eastwood is their candidate. 7,000+ DUP votes, many of which used to go tactically against SF. And Aontú are standing a local doctor on a Republican anti-abortion platform which might make a difference in a close race.

    Paddy Power have SDLP at 4/6 and SF at 11/10.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176

    tlg86 said:

    It looks to me that the value is betting on short price favourites in the constituency bets.

    If you're looking for a longer odds bet at the moment, William Hill are offering 50-1 on Sheff Utd to finish in the Top 6.

    Love it to happen but mugs bet?
    Probably, but I'm still kicking myself for not taking the 10-1 one bookie was offering on Leicester to finish in the Top 6 back in the summer.

    It might be that teams will start to work out how to play Sheff Utd as the season goes on, but it doesn't half help when you have the best defence in the league.
  • PaulM said:

    Hi folks, what are your northern Ireland constituency predictions and whos the best bet?

    Foyle might be interesting. Heavily nationalist seat (John Hume's old seat in Derry)
    Sinn Fein won last time for the first time ever by fewer than 200 votes from SDLP. SDLP leader Colm Eastwood is their candidate. 7,000+ DUP votes, many of which used to go tactically against SF. And Aontú are standing a local doctor on a Republican anti-abortion platform which might make a difference in a close race.

    Paddy Power have SDLP at 4/6 and SF at 11/10.
    I'm on SDLP to win Foyle, they were both 5-6 and my money has moved the odds.

    I think he's a good thing personally.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    egg said:

    egg said:

    HYUFD said:

    Floater said:

    So tonights polls have leads of 8,8,12,12,16 average lead 11.2%

    Or 10% if you ignore the outlier...

    Is it too late for a Labour leadership election before polling day?
    Which of the lunatics do you want running the asylum?

    Because it wont be a moderate
    Straight answer - Starmer.

    Wild card, post-defeat - Jess Phillips
    Will be, Long-Bailey or Pidcock, to the LDs benefit mainly
    It will be Long Bailey. Pidcock interests me, there’s something there.
    And, not to LD benefit if Tory support crashes and burns before 2025 election. Which can’t be ruled out.

    Incidentally, with a Dec 12 election, what’s the latest it can be held, five years on top is right on Christmas again 🥳.
    Under the FTPA the 2024 election is due in first week of May. The Parliament elected on 12th December will be dissolved at the end of March 2024 - ie only lasts 4 years and 3 months rather than 5 years.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312

    One example of game changing events. In a few weeks time ITV are putting Corbyn and Johnson head to head on live TV. It will be a very painful hour of TV, reinforcing to voters just why they hate the pair of them so much. My new lot have made the point that the choice of debatees of leave vs leave is absurd, but its in our interests not to be there. The more time Johnson and Corbyn have on screen smothering each other to death the better.

    OK, but how does Swinson even get herself on the telly at all? If Corbyn and Johnson lock her out of the debates, which I guess they can, how does she get coverage? I guess she could do a head-to-head with Farage???
    I expect that some debates will happen with a spread of candidates. TBH Swinson vs Farage would be good. We either do Brexit or we don't. What is the point in voting for sort-of Brexit offered by Johnson or Corbyn?
    Swinson vs Farage sounds good, love to see it (I know who my money would be on) but it ain't gonna happen. She would never take on Farage nor would anyone.
  • nunu2nunu2 Posts: 1,453
    Barnesian said:

    Putting latest polls into model gives:

    Con 37.0% (+2.1)
    Lab 25.9 (+1.5)
    LD 17.0% (-1.3)
    BXP 10.7% (-1.5)
    Green 4.0% (-0.5)

    Con 320 (+8)
    Lab 224 (+2)
    LD 35 (-11)

    Individual English constituencies here:

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hCm3uVr3Z6DI4nFxUjmOyKRGZPNqOLu1BMKVeZvv3T8/edit?usp=sharing

    Barnesian said:

    Putting latest polls into model gives:

    Con 37.0% (+2.1)
    Lab 25.9 (+1.5)
    LD 17.0% (-1.3)
    BXP 10.7% (-1.5)
    Green 4.0% (-0.5)

    Con 320 (+8)
    Lab 224 (+2)
    LD 35 (-11)

    Individual English constituencies here:

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hCm3uVr3Z6DI4nFxUjmOyKRGZPNqOLu1BMKVeZvv3T8/edit?usp=sharing

    Getting ever so close! Key for the tories is that lower libdem figure?
  • camelcamel Posts: 815
    Barnesian said:

    camel said:

    LibDems 5/6 to get 44.5 seats or less.
    Initially I felt that they might hoover up some female votes from the tories and remainer votes from labour, but can only model 12 gains and 6 possibles

    I cannot see where they can rack up 33gains.

    Which consituencies am I missing, or all in at 5/6?

    Gains:

    Richmond Park
    Ceredigion
    St Ives
    Brecon and RadnorshireCheadle
    Leeds North West
    Lewes
    St Albans
    Southport
    Wells
    Hazel Grove
    Cornwall North
    Brecon and Radnorshire

    Possibles:

    Fife North East
    Winchester
    Ross, Skye and Lochaber
    Bermondsey and Old Southwark
    Cambridge
    Brecon and Radnorshire

    Other possibles, some of them very tight

    Sheffield Hallam (not tight)
    Thornbury
    Torbay
    Taunton Deane
    Sutton and Cheam
    North Devon
    Eastleigh
    Chippenham
    Cheltenham
    Cheadle
    Some good ones there, however my model assumes a big swing from labour to libdem, and some of these have virtually no labour presence at all = thornbury produced just 6000 labour votes in 2017.

    The hard one to fathom is Hallam - will the labour vote collapse in embarrassment after the fiasco that has been the (admittedly, clearly mentally ill) current incumbent, or will it be refreshed. I have happy memories of Hallam in 2017 - I cleaned up.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    It looks to me that the value is betting on short price favourites in the constituency bets.

    If you're looking for a longer odds bet at the moment, William Hill are offering 50-1 on Sheff Utd to finish in the Top 6.

    Love it to happen but mugs bet?
    Probably, but I'm still kicking myself for not taking the 10-1 one bookie was offering on Leicester to finish in the Top 6 back in the summer.

    It might be that teams will start to work out how to play Sheff Utd as the season goes on, but it doesn't half help when you have the best defence in the league.
    I agree that it's nice to be foresighted. I thought Chelsea would be crap without Hazard and look at them. Hazard ain't too wonderful now is he - pretty good but not wonderful
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    nunu2 said:

    Barnesian said:

    Putting latest polls into model gives:

    Con 37.0% (+2.1)
    Lab 25.9 (+1.5)
    LD 17.0% (-1.3)
    BXP 10.7% (-1.5)
    Green 4.0% (-0.5)

    Con 320 (+8)
    Lab 224 (+2)
    LD 35 (-11)

    Individual English constituencies here:

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hCm3uVr3Z6DI4nFxUjmOyKRGZPNqOLu1BMKVeZvv3T8/edit?usp=sharing

    Barnesian said:

    Putting latest polls into model gives:

    Con 37.0% (+2.1)
    Lab 25.9 (+1.5)
    LD 17.0% (-1.3)
    BXP 10.7% (-1.5)
    Green 4.0% (-0.5)

    Con 320 (+8)
    Lab 224 (+2)
    LD 35 (-11)

    Individual English constituencies here:

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hCm3uVr3Z6DI4nFxUjmOyKRGZPNqOLu1BMKVeZvv3T8/edit?usp=sharing

    Getting ever so close! Key for the tories is that lower libdem figure?
    Who is gonna get to deal with the mess? Who finishes up owning the mess?
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,605
    camel said:

    Barnesian said:

    camel said:

    LibDems 5/6 to get 44.5 seats or less.
    Initially I felt that they might hoover up some female votes from the tories and remainer votes from labour, but can only model 12 gains and 6 possibles

    I cannot see where they can rack up 33gains.

    Which consituencies am I missing, or all in at 5/6?

    Gains:

    Richmond Park
    Ceredigion
    St Ives
    Brecon and RadnorshireCheadle
    Leeds North West
    Lewes
    St Albans
    Southport
    Wells
    Hazel Grove
    Cornwall North
    Brecon and Radnorshire

    Possibles:

    Fife North East
    Winchester
    Ross, Skye and Lochaber
    Bermondsey and Old Southwark
    Cambridge
    Brecon and Radnorshire

    Other possibles, some of them very tight

    Sheffield Hallam (not tight)
    Thornbury
    Torbay
    Taunton Deane
    Sutton and Cheam
    North Devon
    Eastleigh
    Chippenham
    Cheltenham
    Cheadle
    Some good ones there, however my model assumes a big swing from labour to libdem, and some of these have virtually no labour presence at all = thornbury produced just 6000 labour votes in 2017.

    The hard one to fathom is Hallam - will the labour vote collapse in embarrassment after the fiasco that has been the (admittedly, clearly mentally ill) current incumbent, or will it be refreshed. I have happy memories of Hallam in 2017 - I cleaned up.
    There's a swing from Tory to LibDem as well.
    I've got Thornbury as 41% Tory, 44% LibDem.
    MRP has it as 38% Tory, 39% LibDem.
    Tight.
  • nunu2nunu2 Posts: 1,453
    camel said:

    Barnesian said:

    camel said:

    LibDems 5/6 to get 44.5 seats or less.
    Initially I felt that they might hoover up some female votes from the tories and remainer votes from labour, but can only model 12 gains and 6 possibles

    I cannot see where they can rack up 33gains.

    Which consituencies am I missing, or all in at 5/6?

    Gains:

    Richmond Park
    Ceredigion
    St Ives
    Brecon and RadnorshireCheadle
    Leeds North West
    Lewes
    St Albans
    Southport
    Wells
    Hazel Grove
    Cornwall North
    Brecon and Radnorshire

    Possibles:

    Fife North East
    Winchester
    Ross, Skye and Lochaber
    Bermondsey and Old Southwark
    Cambridge
    Brecon and Radnorshire

    Other possibles, some of them very tight

    Sheffield Hallam (not tight)
    Thornbury
    Torbay
    Taunton Deane
    Sutton and Cheam
    North Devon
    Eastleigh
    Chippenham
    Cheltenham
    Cheadle
    Some good ones there, however my model assumes a big swing from labour to libdem, and some of these have virtually no labour presence at all = thornbury produced just 6000 labour votes in 2017.

    The hard one to fathom is Hallam - will the labour vote collapse in embarrassment after the fiasco that has been the (admittedly, clearly mentally ill) current incumbent, or will it be refreshed. I have happy memories of Hallam in 2017 - I cleaned up.
    Is your model also predicting a hung Parliament?
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    It looks to me that the value is betting on short price favourites in the constituency bets.

    If you're looking for a longer odds bet at the moment, William Hill are offering 50-1 on Sheff Utd to finish in the Top 6.

    Love it to happen but mugs bet?
    Probably, but I'm still kicking myself for not taking the 10-1 one bookie was offering on Leicester to finish in the Top 6 back in the summer.

    It might be that teams will start to work out how to play Sheff Utd as the season goes on, but it doesn't half help when you have the best defence in the league.
    I agree that it's nice to be foresighted. I thought Chelsea would be crap without Hazard and look at them. Hazard ain't too wonderful now is he - pretty good but not wonderful
    Absolutely. I recently read a piece on Hazard in World Soccer. He sounds like a bit of a tosser so it might have improved the atmosphere at the club now he's gone.
  • camelcamel Posts: 815
    Barnesian said:

    camel said:

    Barnesian said:

    camel said:

    LibDems 5/6 to get 44.5 seats or less.
    Initially I felt that they might hoover up some female votes from the tories and remainer votes from labour, but can only model 12 gains and 6 possibles

    I cannot see where they can rack up 33gains.

    Which consituencies am I missing, or all in at 5/6?

    Gains:

    Richmond Park
    Ceredigion
    St Ives
    Brecon and RadnorshireCheadle
    Leeds North West
    Lewes
    St Albans
    Southport
    Wells
    Hazel Grove
    Cornwall North
    Brecon and Radnorshire

    Possibles:

    Fife North East
    Winchester
    Ross, Skye and Lochaber
    Bermondsey and Old Southwark
    Cambridge
    Brecon and Radnorshire

    Other possibles, some of them very tight

    Sheffield Hallam (not tight)
    Thornbury
    Torbay
    Taunton Deane
    Sutton and Cheam
    North Devon
    Eastleigh
    Chippenham
    Cheltenham
    Cheadle
    Some good ones there, however my model assumes a big swing from labour to libdem, and some of these have virtually no labour presence at all = thornbury produced just 6000 labour votes in 2017.

    The hard one to fathom is Hallam - will the labour vote collapse in embarrassment after the fiasco that has been the (admittedly, clearly mentally ill) current incumbent, or will it be refreshed. I have happy memories of Hallam in 2017 - I cleaned up.
    There's a swing from Tory to LibDem as well.
    I've got Thornbury as 41% Tory, 44% LibDem.
    MRP has it as 38% Tory, 39% LibDem.
    Tight.
    Indeed I have modelled for a a tory to libdem swing.

    I have it 90% tory/libdem (48% tory 42% libdem) just 10% for others.

    In 2017 it was 87% tory/libdem and 13% others,

    You have 85% for libdem/con and 15% for others which looks very credible, better than my model given the likely BXP standing.

    MRP has it 77% for libdem/con and 23% for other which looks much less credible.

    What is MRP by the way?
  • camelcamel Posts: 815
    nunu2 said:

    camel said:

    Barnesian said:

    camel said:

    LibDems 5/6 to get 44.5 seats or less.
    Initially I felt that they might hoover up some female votes from the tories and remainer votes from labour, but can only model 12 gains and 6 possibles

    I cannot see where they can rack up 33gains.

    Which consituencies am I missing, or all in at 5/6?

    Gains:

    Richmond Park
    Ceredigion
    St Ives
    Brecon and RadnorshireCheadle
    Leeds North West
    Lewes
    St Albans
    Southport
    Wells
    Hazel Grove
    Cornwall North
    Brecon and Radnorshire

    Possibles:

    Fife North East
    Winchester
    Ross, Skye and Lochaber
    Bermondsey and Old Southwark
    Cambridge
    Brecon and Radnorshire

    Other possibles, some of them very tight

    Sheffield Hallam (not tight)
    Thornbury
    Torbay
    Taunton Deane
    Sutton and Cheam
    North Devon
    Eastleigh
    Chippenham
    Cheltenham
    Cheadle
    Some good ones there, however my model assumes a big swing from labour to libdem, and some of these have virtually no labour presence at all = thornbury produced just 6000 labour votes in 2017.

    The hard one to fathom is Hallam - will the labour vote collapse in embarrassment after the fiasco that has been the (admittedly, clearly mentally ill) current incumbent, or will it be refreshed. I have happy memories of Hallam in 2017 - I cleaned up.
    Is your model also predicting a hung Parliament?
    I've only been playing with LibDem gains, so I don't know. Gut feel was for a tory majority of 20 or so, but that assumed BXP would only stand in brexity labour seats. I think I will have to wait till the candidate registrations are in to punt on the overall outcome.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,236
    edited November 2019
    camel said:

    LibDems 5/6 to get 44.5 seats or less.
    Initially I felt that they might hoover up some female votes from the tories and remainer votes from labour, but can only model 12 gains and 6 possibles

    I cannot see where they can rack up 33gains.

    Which consituencies am I missing, or all in at 5/6?

    Gains:

    Richmond Park
    Ceredigion
    St Ives
    Brecon and RadnorshireCheadle
    Leeds North West
    Lewes
    St Albans
    Southport
    Wells
    Hazel Grove
    Cornwall North
    Brecon and Radnorshire

    Possibles:

    Fife North East
    Winchester
    Ross, Skye and Lochaber
    Bermondsey and Old Southwark
    Cambridge
    Brecon and Radnorshire

    You have Brecon and Radnorshire in there three times...

    No Sheffield Hallam?

    I have a Four Part model: UNS, Remain/Leave, Local Strength and Labour vote to squeeze.

    On that, LDs gain: Richmond Park, Ceridigion, St Ives, St Albans, Fife NE, Leeds NW, Sheffield Hallam, Hornsey & Wood Green, and South Cambridgeshire for a total of 21 seats.

    There are about a dozen other seats that might be in reach on a good day, such as a few of the London ones. I'm not optimistic they'll do well in the South West. I think they'll do surprisingly well in studenty areas where "Bollox to Brexit" seems clever and sophisticated.
  • RH1992RH1992 Posts: 788
    camel said:

    LibDems 5/6 to get 44.5 seats or less.
    Initially I felt that they might hoover up some female votes from the tories and remainer votes from labour, but can only model 12 gains and 6 possibles

    I cannot see where they can rack up 33gains.

    Which consituencies am I missing, or all in at 5/6?

    Gains:

    Richmond Park
    Ceredigion
    St Ives
    Brecon and RadnorshireCheadle
    Leeds North West
    Lewes
    St Albans
    Southport
    Wells
    Hazel Grove
    Cornwall North
    Brecon and Radnorshire

    Possibles:

    Fife North East
    Winchester
    Ross, Skye and Lochaber
    Bermondsey and Old Southwark
    Cambridge
    Brecon and Radnorshire

    I cannot see Leeds NW going LD. The local MP is popular and the LDs used to have a stronghold in Headingley but it's solid Labour now. Otley and the parts outside the ring road are still LD but the lean over the past few years is in Labour's direction.
  • camelcamel Posts: 815
    I do have Brecon and Radnorshire in there three times. It is a very large constituency, physically, but even so I've been ambitious there.

    One of them should read Cheadle. Not sure about the other. I am concentrating on watching the cricket rather than concentrating on my cutting and pasting.

    Yes, Sheffield Hallam ought to go yellow but I wonder if it might go blue for the first time in many years. I consider it too freaky a constituency to bet on.

    You are predicting 10-20 gains with which I concur. Bet365's analysts are predicting 33. I've placed a bet.

    Now to see if James Vince bats better than he fields.
  • brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    Pulpstar said:

    Jezza might pull it back a bit but largest party is a huge ask

    Looking at the underlying figures in these polls, particularly comparing Yougov polling, the Tory position is weaker than 2017 and there's plenty of room for low-information voters to swing to Labour in the numbers they did back then. It's currently a trickle rather than a flood. I wouldn't get cocky if I were a Tory.
  • camelcamel Posts: 815
    RH1992 said:

    camel said:

    LibDems 5/6 to get 44.5 seats or less.
    Initially I felt that they might hoover up some female votes from the tories and remainer votes from labour, but can only model 12 gains and 6 possibles

    I cannot see where they can rack up 33gains.

    Which consituencies am I missing, or all in at 5/6?

    Gains:

    Richmond Park
    Ceredigion
    St Ives
    Brecon and RadnorshireCheadle
    Leeds North West
    Lewes
    St Albans
    Southport
    Wells
    Hazel Grove
    Cornwall North
    Brecon and Radnorshire

    Possibles:

    Fife North East
    Winchester
    Ross, Skye and Lochaber
    Bermondsey and Old Southwark
    Cambridge
    Brecon and Radnorshire

    I cannot see Leeds NW going LD. The local MP is popular and the LDs used to have a stronghold in Headingley but it's solid Labour now. Otley and the parts outside the ring road are still LD but the lean over the past few years is in Labour's direction.
    I've assumed a fair swing from labour to libdem in remainy areas (and not attempted to adjust for local factors) but you might be right about Leeds NW. Mulholland might have had the name recognition to regain, but I see the LibDems have appointed a new candidate. should be close.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,236
    viewcode said:

    GIN1138 said:

    AndyJS said:

    Three VI polls in the Sunday papers

    Opinium/Observer (31st-1st):

    CON 42 (+2)
    LAB 26 (+2)
    LD 16 (+1)
    BXP 9 (-1)

    ORB/Sunday Telegraph (31st-1st):

    CON 36 (+10)
    LAB 28 (-1)
    LD 14 (+6)
    BXP 12 (-2)

    Deltapoll/Mail on Sunday (31st-2nd):

    CON 40 (+3)
    LAB 28 (+4)
    LD 14 (-5)
    BXP 11 (=)

    I suspect the LDs are doing much better than this.
    Who knows.

    In 2005 everyone thought they'd win 100 seats after Iraq. In 2010 we had the Cleggasm yet the Libs lost seats in the end...
    The BBC election night coverage since the 50's is on YouTube. If you look at them, one thing stands out: the Libs always undershoot, never exceed expectations. Sometimes they do well, sometimes badly, but always a little bit worse than expected and sometimes much worse.
    Except 1997, when their vote share dropped and they more than doubled their seat count.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,236
    PaulM said:

    Gabs2 said:

    egg said:

    Gabs2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    I doubt Warren' health plans will hit her with Democratic primary voters, with general election voters maybe

    Democratic primary voters are more moderate than you think.
    I doubt they are moderate on taxing billionaires more. Even Republican voters seem to like that.
    I’m still doubtful billionaires pay tax.
    I feel more confident they would with Warren as President.
    If Warren were President and Johnson PM then yes I'm very confident we'd get more billionaires paying tax in the UK - and Ireland would too.
    The US tax code, unlike most others, taxes all citizens on global income, wherever they might live. So whereas a UK citizen seeking to avoid UK income tax could decamp to Monaco or the like, a US citizen can't avoid federal tax by permamently leaving the US. They would have to revoke their citizenship, which the IRS can challenge (and did in the case of some Heinz executives who renounced their US citizenship and moved to Ireland)
    Tax authorities worldwide are a lot more savvy than they used to be.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,236

    One example of game changing events. In a few weeks time ITV are putting Corbyn and Johnson head to head on live TV. It will be a very painful hour of TV, reinforcing to voters just why they hate the pair of them so much. My new lot have made the point that the choice of debatees of leave vs leave is absurd, but its in our interests not to be there. The more time Johnson and Corbyn have on screen smothering each other to death the better.

    OK, but how does Swinson even get herself on the telly at all? If Corbyn and Johnson lock her out of the debates, which I guess they can, how does she get coverage? I guess she could do a head-to-head with Farage???
    A Farage - Swinson debate would be mana from heaven for both of them. Simply, they're not competing for the same voters. Both could benefit.
  • swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,464
    RH1992 said:

    camel said:

    LibDems 5/6 to get 44.5 seats or less.
    Initially I felt that they might hoover up some female votes from the tories and remainer votes from labour, but can only model 12 gains and 6 possibles

    I cannot see where they can rack up 33gains.

    Which consituencies am I missing, or all in at 5/6?

    Gains:

    Richmond Park
    Ceredigion
    St Ives
    Brecon and RadnorshireCheadle
    Leeds North West
    Lewes
    St Albans
    Southport
    Wells
    Hazel Grove
    Cornwall North
    Brecon and Radnorshire

    Possibles:

    Fife North East
    Winchester
    Ross, Skye and Lochaber
    Bermondsey and Old Southwark
    Cambridge
    Brecon and Radnorshire

    I cannot see Leeds NW going LD. The local MP is popular and the LDs used to have a stronghold in Headingley but it's solid Labour now. Otley and the parts outside the ring road are still LD but the lean over the past few years is in Labour's direction.
    Bristol West could be a unexpected win if the remain/Green vote shifts....I sense there are a few seats where they may come from nowehere....
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,236
    edited November 2019
    RH1992 said:

    camel said:

    LibDems 5/6 to get 44.5 seats or less.
    Initially I felt that they might hoover up some female votes from the tories and remainer votes from labour, but can only model 12 gains and 6 possibles

    I cannot see where they can rack up 33gains.

    Which consituencies am I missing, or all in at 5/6?

    Gains:

    Richmond Park
    Ceredigion
    St Ives
    Brecon and RadnorshireCheadle
    Leeds North West
    Lewes
    St Albans
    Southport
    Wells
    Hazel Grove
    Cornwall North
    Brecon and Radnorshire

    Possibles:

    Fife North East
    Winchester
    Ross, Skye and Lochaber
    Bermondsey and Old Southwark
    Cambridge
    Brecon and Radnorshire

    I cannot see Leeds NW going LD. The local MP is popular and the LDs used to have a stronghold in Headingley but it's solid Labour now. Otley and the parts outside the ring road are still LD but the lean over the past few years is in Labour's direction.
    According to the great Wikipedia, there are four (very large) wards that make up the seat of Leeds NW: Adel and Wharfedale, Headingley, Otley & Yeadon, and Weetwood.

    In 2019, the LDs increased their vote in all of them (relative to 2015, when they won the seat):

    Adel and Wharfedale +6.0%
    Headingly +3.1%
    Otley & Yeadon +6.2%
    Weetwood +1.2%

    Across the constituency, the LDs were clear number one in the locals winning two of the four wards, against one each for the Conservatives and Labour, and winning Otley (for example) by more than thirty points. Worth remembering that the Labour "stronghold" of Headingley saw a Labour vote of 2,055 against a winning LibDem vote in Otley of 3,436.

    Worth noting that there was a big Green vote in the locals, and how that goes in the General could decide things.
  • DadgeDadge Posts: 2,052
    Barnesian said:

    camel said:

    LibDems 5/6 to get 44.5 seats or less.
    Initially I felt that they might hoover up some female votes from the tories and remainer votes from labour, but can only model 12 gains and 6 possibles

    I cannot see where they can rack up 33gains.

    Which consituencies am I missing, or all in at 5/6?

    Gains:

    Richmond Park
    Ceredigion
    St Ives
    Brecon and RadnorshireCheadle
    Leeds North West
    Lewes
    St Albans
    Southport
    Wells
    Hazel Grove
    Cornwall North
    Brecon and Radnorshire

    Possibles:

    Fife North East
    Winchester
    Ross, Skye and Lochaber
    Bermondsey and Old Southwark
    Cambridge
    Brecon and Radnorshire

    Other possibles, some of them very tight

    Sheffield Hallam (not tight)
    Thornbury
    Torbay
    Taunton Deane
    Sutton and Cheam
    North Devon
    Eastleigh
    Chippenham
    Cheltenham
    Cheadle
    Guildford is an example of a constituency where the swing to the LDs is projected to be higher than UNS.
  • One example of game changing events. In a few weeks time ITV are putting Corbyn and Johnson head to head on live TV. It will be a very painful hour of TV, reinforcing to voters just why they hate the pair of them so much. My new lot have made the point that the choice of debatees of leave vs leave is absurd, but its in our interests not to be there. The more time Johnson and Corbyn have on screen smothering each other to death the better.

    OK, but how does Swinson even get herself on the telly at all? If Corbyn and Johnson lock her out of the debates, which I guess they can, how does she get coverage? I guess she could do a head-to-head with Farage???
    I expect that some debates will happen with a spread of candidates. TBH Swinson vs Farage would be good. We either do Brexit or we don't. What is the point in voting for sort-of Brexit offered by Johnson or Corbyn?
    Swinson vs Farage sounds good, love to see it (I know who my money would be on) but it ain't gonna happen. She would never take on Farage nor would anyone.
    Swinson should suggest it herself. A head-to-head with Farage would give her more airtime than she'd get in a 3-way (or 7-way) and she'd easily win, so far as Remain-leaning viewers will see it.

    Ah, you say, but Brexit-inclined voters will score it for Farage. But this too is good for Swinson, as BXP will eat into Conservative (and perhaps Labour) votes, thus lowering the bar for LibDem candidates.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,627
    Morning all. Great discussions on constituency seat market betting. PB at its best 👍
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    New thread by NPEXMP.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    viewcode said:

    GIN1138 said:

    AndyJS said:

    Three VI polls in the Sunday papers

    Opinium/Observer (31st-1st):

    CON 42 (+2)
    LAB 26 (+2)
    LD 16 (+1)
    BXP 9 (-1)

    ORB/Sunday Telegraph (31st-1st):

    CON 36 (+10)
    LAB 28 (-1)
    LD 14 (+6)
    BXP 12 (-2)

    Deltapoll/Mail on Sunday (31st-2nd):

    CON 40 (+3)
    LAB 28 (+4)
    LD 14 (-5)
    BXP 11 (=)

    I suspect the LDs are doing much better than this.
    Who knows.

    In 2005 everyone thought they'd win 100 seats after Iraq. In 2010 we had the Cleggasm yet the Libs lost seats in the end...
    The BBC election night coverage since the 50's is on YouTube. If you look at them, one thing stands out: the Libs always undershoot, never exceed expectations. Sometimes they do well, sometimes badly, but always a little bit worse than expected and sometimes much worse.
    A couple of days ago the Lib Dems were hyping a Gain in Ross, Skye and Lochaber. From 4th place and 12% of the vote. They are their own worst enemies.
    If the Ross Sky Locharber is remotely true then it implies the massive Lib - >Con conversion that happened in 2017 is over.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    Mayor Pete polling in the last 3 national polls at 2%, 4% and 8%, with Warren at 3 times that score:

    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-primaries/democratic/national/

    The only polling that is close is the Iowa ones, but there Warren is polling better. In the other early contests Buttigeig is not in the running.

    Warren certainly has detailed plans and policies vulnerable to fisking, while Buttigeig specialises in vague waffle, but how long is that sustainable?

    The latest New Hampshire poll has him in double digits. He's got the big mo.
    S Carolina is his problem. But it will be a nice problem to have if he wins in Iowa.
    Indeed.

    I see Buttigieg and Warren as being roughly 45% shots apiece for Iowa. Buttigieg absolutely has to win it. Warren, so long as she's a good second, can afford to lose.

    The really interesting question is what happens if Biden places third or worse in both Iowa and New Hampshire. His selling point is that he's a winner. And I think if you take that away, there's not much there.
    I am hoping Biden finishes 3rd in Iowa and becomes odds on favourite.

    #lightningstrikestwice
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,719

    One example of game changing events. In a few weeks time ITV are putting Corbyn and Johnson head to head on live TV. It will be a very painful hour of TV, reinforcing to voters just why they hate the pair of them so much. My new lot have made the point that the choice of debatees of leave vs leave is absurd, but its in our interests not to be there. The more time Johnson and Corbyn have on screen smothering each other to death the better.

    OK, but how does Swinson even get herself on the telly at all? If Corbyn and Johnson lock her out of the debates, which I guess they can, how does she get coverage? I guess she could do a head-to-head with Farage???
    Before I read the final sentence that's exactly what I was going to suggest. They could frame it as the only people offering an honest choice on Europe - either fully out, or cancelling Brexit altogether.
This discussion has been closed.