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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Warren on the slide in WH2020 nomination betting after negativ

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  • Options
    egg said:

    That's a good ad.

    Shame the crisps are crap.
    Pity they missed the obvious pun... "All I want for Crispmas....."

    I will not bother taking off my hat or coat.... :D:D
    All I want for crispmas is you.

    How are you, warm in that coat?
    Toasty...... :D:D:D
  • Options
    eggegg Posts: 1,749
    egg said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Deltapoll

    Net approval

    Boris +-2
    Corbyn -43

    Best for NHS

    Boris 40%
    Corbyn 34%

    Best for Brexit

    Boris 51%
    Corbyn 26%

    Terrible numbers for Jezza. Really dreadful!
    Whose the 26% who think he’s best for brexit?

    Actually, what does that even mean, best for brexit?
    But Boris is brexit. He owns it. How can anyone get within 25% being better than him with it?
  • Options
    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Pulpstar said:

    Lib Dems in all these CON LAB marginals looking a bit like May in Leeds East 2017 to me.

    I agree totally. Utter madness and completely divorced from reality and the electoral dynamics in those seats.
  • Options
    nunu2nunu2 Posts: 1,453
    justin124 said:

    viewcode said:

    justin124 said:

    There is growing evidence from these polls that Labour is now well clear of the LDs for the first time since April. That makes it easier to push the message 'If you want to stop Johnson , you have to Vote Labour'.

    Similarly, there is growing evidence from these polls that Labour is well behind Cons and isn't reducing the lead
    Delta does show a slight fall in the Tory lead from 13% to 12%.
    At the same point in the 2017 campaign , Opinium reported a 17% Tory lead with ORB putting them 11% ahead.
    For different reasons. I suspect that both the Tory and Labour camps will be quite satisfied tonight . The LDs will have taken a knock.
    Corbyn should stop campaigning then 😂
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    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    Mayor Pete polling in the last 3 national polls at 2%, 4% and 8%, with Warren at 3 times that score:

    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-primaries/democratic/national/

    The only polling that is close is the Iowa ones, but there Warren is polling better. In the other early contests Buttigeig is not in the running.

    Warren certainly has detailed plans and policies vulnerable to fisking, while Buttigeig specialises in vague waffle, but how long is that sustainable?

    The latest New Hampshire poll has him in double digits. He's got the big mo.
    S Carolina is his problem. But it will be a nice problem to have if he wins in Iowa.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,650
    GIN1138 said:

    Deltapoll

    Net approval

    Boris +-2
    Corbyn -43

    Best for NHS

    Boris 40%
    Corbyn 34%

    Best for Brexit

    Boris 51%
    Corbyn 26%

    Terrible numbers for Jezza. Really dreadful!
    Corbyn 6 behind Boris on the NHS. Maybe the voters want it sold to the US?
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    asjohnstoneasjohnstone Posts: 1,276
    egg said:

    Three VI polls in the Sunday papers

    Opinium/Observer (31st-1st):

    CON 42 (+2)
    LAB 26 (+2)
    LD 16 (+1)
    BXP 9 (-1)

    ORB/Sunday Telegraph (31st-1st):

    CON 36 (+10)
    LAB 28 (-1)
    LD 14 (+6)
    BXP 12 (-2)

    Deltapoll/Mail on Sunday (31st-2nd):

    CON 40 (+3)
    LAB 28 (+4)
    LD 14 (-5)
    BXP 11 (=)

    Bah, all outliers, every single one of them!

    :lol:
    All to be taken with a bucket of salt at this stage of a v volatile election.
    But is it volatile. Poll after poll show 40% want brexit wrangling out their lives with a Boris win. Why shouldn’t this be it, all up to the glorious 12th?
    No evidence at all to suggest it's volatile, but the last couple have been so people are assuming it'll continue.
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    Three VI polls in the Sunday papers

    Opinium/Observer (31st-1st):

    CON 42 (+2)
    LAB 26 (+2)
    LD 16 (+1)
    BXP 9 (-1)

    ORB/Sunday Telegraph (31st-1st):

    CON 36 (+10)
    LAB 28 (-1)
    LD 14 (+6)
    BXP 12 (-2)

    Deltapoll/Mail on Sunday (31st-2nd):

    CON 40 (+3)
    LAB 28 (+4)
    LD 14 (-5)
    BXP 11 (=)

    I suspect the LDs are doing much better than this.
  • Options
    Andrew said:

    Kinda curious to see poll after poll implying a crushing Bozo victory, yet the spreads are stuck on 320.

    Wondering perhaps if the betting markets are fighting the last war, assuming a repeat.

    Looks that way. I think that, most elections, if one party starts the campaign with leads in the range of 10-15 points then they're going to win a crushing victory. Sometimes, rarely, it will be turned around, but it's really hard to do.

    Still, there is a possibility that the YouGov MRP will show something different.
  • Options
    Can anyone tell me any policy issue outside revoke the lib dems stand for

    All anyone hears is revoke and that could be a very big error

    Why on earth did they not adopt the peoples vote (daft name) and openly campaign for a referendum. Curious to say the least
  • Options
    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    justin124 said:

    viewcode said:

    justin124 said:

    There is growing evidence from these polls that Labour is now well clear of the LDs for the first time since April. That makes it easier to push the message 'If you want to stop Johnson , you have to Vote Labour'.

    Similarly, there is growing evidence from these polls that Labour is well behind Cons and isn't reducing the lead
    Delta does show a slight fall in the Tory lead from 13% to 12%.
    At the same point in the 2017 campaign , Opinium reported a 17% Tory lead with ORB putting them 11% ahead.
    Look at the leader ratings and now Boris is ahead on the NHS by 6

    And do not even think on who is most trusted on brexit

    In Scotland I do believe Nicola has made a big mistake because she has united the union vote sgainst her
    All of that is baked into these Voting Intention figures.If Corbyn campaigns well , that data will shift.
    Re - Scotland I rather agree with you as far as Sturgeon is concerned - but the pro- union vote actually looks divided on those figures with Tories on 24% and Labour on 22%. As I have pointed out in the past, if the SNP fall back at all compared with 2017 , Labour has the potential for significant gains there. I have never expected the SNP to exceed 35% at the next Westminster election - but I would need confirmatory evidence before really accepting the data released tonight.
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    eggegg Posts: 1,749
    Andrew said:

    Kinda curious to see poll after poll implying a crushing Bozo victory, yet the spreads are stuck on 320.

    Wondering perhaps if the betting markets are fighting the last war, assuming a repeat.

    Spreads might be smart enough to suspect regional variations and much TV.

    TV meaning tactical vote. Just thought ide explain that for any newbies lurking wondering what an election is and all the jargon we use.

    For those curious newbies, other jargon we use.

    pineapple. A pineapple is a term for a poll you don’t like the taste of. Just thinking of the poll makes you feel queasy.

    All the polls are pineapple to labour tonight.

    Other tips for newbie lurkers, if you see any reference to train timetable, journey, engine or carriage numbers, this is in fact secret code how we share hot tips with each other without rest of world getting on it and shifting the price.
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 21,175
    AndyJS said:

    Three VI polls in the Sunday papers

    Opinium/Observer (31st-1st):

    CON 42 (+2)
    LAB 26 (+2)
    LD 16 (+1)
    BXP 9 (-1)

    ORB/Sunday Telegraph (31st-1st):

    CON 36 (+10)
    LAB 28 (-1)
    LD 14 (+6)
    BXP 12 (-2)

    Deltapoll/Mail on Sunday (31st-2nd):

    CON 40 (+3)
    LAB 28 (+4)
    LD 14 (-5)
    BXP 11 (=)

    I suspect the LDs are doing much better than this.
    Who knows.

    In 2005 everyone thought they'd win 100 seats after Iraq. In 2010 we had the Cleggasm yet the Libs lost seats in the end...
  • Options
    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    viewcode said:

    justin124 said:

    There is growing evidence from these polls that Labour is now well clear of the LDs for the first time since April. That makes it easier to push the message 'If you want to stop Johnson , you have to Vote Labour'.

    Similarly, there is growing evidence from these polls that Labour is well behind Cons and isn't reducing the lead
    Delta does show a slight fall in the Tory lead from 13% to 12%.
    At the same point in the 2017 campaign , Opinium reported a 17% Tory lead with ORB putting them 11% ahead.
    Look at the leader ratings and now Boris is ahead on the NHS by 6

    And do not even think on who is most trusted on brexit

    In Scotland I do believe Nicola has made a big mistake because she has united the union vote sgainst her
    All of that is baked into these Voting Intention figures.If Corbyn campaigns well , that data will shift.
    Re - Scotland I rather agree with you as far as Sturgeon is concerned - but the pro- union vote actually looks divided on those figures with Tories on 24% and Labour on 22%. As I have pointed out in the past, if the SNP fall back at all compared with 2017 , Labour has the potential for significant gains there. I have never expected the SNP to exceed 35% at the next Westminster election - but I would need confirmatory evidence before really accepting the data released tonight.
    If nothing else you are loyal but Corbyn is too far behind in all areas and he is going to lose seats and that is the case in Scotland as well
  • Options
    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    Andrew said:

    Kinda curious to see poll after poll implying a crushing Bozo victory, yet the spreads are stuck on 320.

    Wondering perhaps if the betting markets are fighting the last war, assuming a repeat.

    Looks that way. I think that, most elections, if one party starts the campaign with leads in the range of 10-15 points then they're going to win a crushing victory. Sometimes, rarely, it will be turned around, but it's really hard to do.

    Still, there is a possibility that the YouGov MRP will show something different.
    But it is a smaller lead than enjoyed by the Tories at the same stage in 2017.
    I am also recalling the February 1974 election - which was only a 3 week campaign. In the first week there were polls giving the Tories leads of 8% , 9% and 11%. Barely two weeks later the Tories led in the popular vote by 0.8%.
  • Options
    philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704
    GIN1138 said:

    AndyJS said:

    Three VI polls in the Sunday papers

    Opinium/Observer (31st-1st):

    CON 42 (+2)
    LAB 26 (+2)
    LD 16 (+1)
    BXP 9 (-1)

    ORB/Sunday Telegraph (31st-1st):

    CON 36 (+10)
    LAB 28 (-1)
    LD 14 (+6)
    BXP 12 (-2)

    Deltapoll/Mail on Sunday (31st-2nd):

    CON 40 (+3)
    LAB 28 (+4)
    LD 14 (-5)
    BXP 11 (=)

    I suspect the LDs are doing much better than this.
    Who knows.

    In 2005 everyone thought they'd win 100 seats after Iraq. In 2010 we had the Cleggasm yet the Libs lost seats in the end...
    Now we are waiting for the Swinstorm©.
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    Can anyone tell me any policy issue outside revoke the lib dems stand for

    All anyone hears is revoke and that could be a very big error

    Why on earth did they not adopt the peoples vote (daft name) and openly campaign for a referendum. Curious to say the least

    A fairer voting system.
  • Options
    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    edited November 2019

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    viewcode said:

    justin124 said:

    There is growing evidence from these polls that Labour is now well clear of the LDs for the first time since April. That makes it easier to push the message 'If you want to stop Johnson , you have to Vote Labour'.

    Similarly, there is growing evidence from these polls that Labour is well behind Cons and isn't reducing the lead
    Delta does show a slight fall in the Tory lead from 13% to 12%.
    At the same point in the 2017 campaign , Opinium reported a 17% Tory lead with ORB putting them 11% ahead.
    Look at the leader ratings and now Boris is ahead on the NHS by 6

    And do not even think on who is most trusted on brexit

    In Scotland I do believe Nicola has made a big mistake because she has united the union vote sgainst her
    All of that is baked into these Voting Intention figures.If Corbyn campaigns well , that data will shift.
    Re - Scotland I rather agree with you as far as Sturgeon is concerned - but the pro- union vote actually looks divided on those figures with Tories on 24% and Labour on 22%. As I have pointed out in the past, if the SNP fall back at all compared with 2017 , Labour has the potential for significant gains there. I have never expected the SNP to exceed 35% at the next Westminster election - but I would need confirmatory evidence before really accepting the data released tonight.
    If nothing else you are loyal but Corbyn is too far behind in all areas and he is going to lose seats and that is the case in Scotland as well
    No loyalty is involved - I am spoiling my ballot paper. On tonight's figures Labour will gain seats in Scotland - IF they are at all accurate.
  • Options
    AndyJS said:

    Can anyone tell me any policy issue outside revoke the lib dems stand for

    All anyone hears is revoke and that could be a very big error

    Why on earth did they not adopt the peoples vote (daft name) and openly campaign for a referendum. Curious to say the least

    A fairer voting system.
    Is that it - really ?
  • Options
    eggegg Posts: 1,749
    GIN1138 said:

    AndyJS said:

    Three VI polls in the Sunday papers

    Opinium/Observer (31st-1st):

    CON 42 (+2)
    LAB 26 (+2)
    LD 16 (+1)
    BXP 9 (-1)

    ORB/Sunday Telegraph (31st-1st):

    CON 36 (+10)
    LAB 28 (-1)
    LD 14 (+6)
    BXP 12 (-2)

    Deltapoll/Mail on Sunday (31st-2nd):

    CON 40 (+3)
    LAB 28 (+4)
    LD 14 (-5)
    BXP 11 (=)

    I suspect the LDs are doing much better than this.
    Who knows.

    In 2005 everyone thought they'd win 100 seats after Iraq. In 2010 we had the Cleggasm yet the Libs lost seats in the end...
    So we are pouring over the numbers looking for signs of Joggasm?
    The Cleggasm didn’t start squirting till that first debate in Bristol?
  • Options
    justin124 said:

    Andrew said:

    Kinda curious to see poll after poll implying a crushing Bozo victory, yet the spreads are stuck on 320.

    Wondering perhaps if the betting markets are fighting the last war, assuming a repeat.

    Looks that way. I think that, most elections, if one party starts the campaign with leads in the range of 10-15 points then they're going to win a crushing victory. Sometimes, rarely, it will be turned around, but it's really hard to do.

    Still, there is a possibility that the YouGov MRP will show something different.
    But it is a smaller lead than enjoyed by the Tories at the same stage in 2017.
    I am also recalling the February 1974 election - which was only a 3 week campaign. In the first week there were polls giving the Tories leads of 8% , 9% and 11%. Barely two weeks later the Tories led in the popular vote by 0.8%.
    You are blinded to reality and in denial
  • Options
    YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    viewcode said:

    justin124 said:

    There is growing evidence from these polls that Labour is now well clear of the LDs for the first time since April. That makes it easier to push the message 'If you want to stop Johnson , you have to Vote Labour'.

    Similarly, there is growing evidence from these polls that Labour is well behind Cons and isn't reducing the lead
    Delta does show a slight fall in the Tory lead from 13% to 12%.
    At the same point in the 2017 campaign , Opinium reported a 17% Tory lead with ORB putting them 11% ahead.
    Look at the leader ratings and now Boris is ahead on the NHS by 6

    And do not even think on who is most trusted on brexit

    In Scotland I do believe Nicola has made a big mistake because she has united the union vote sgainst her
    All of that is baked into these Voting Intention figures.If Corbyn campaigns well , that data will shift.
    Re - Scotland I rather agree with you as far as Sturgeon is concerned - but the pro- union vote actually looks divided on those figures with Tories on 24% and Labour on 22%. As I have pointed out in the past, if the SNP fall back at all compared with 2017 , Labour has the potential for significant gains there. I have never expected the SNP to exceed 35% at the next Westminster election - but I would need confirmatory evidence before really accepting the data released tonight.
    If nothing else you are loyal but Corbyn is too far behind in all areas and he is going to lose seats and that is the case in Scotland as well
    No loyalty is involved - I am spoiling my ballot paper. On tonight's figures Labour will gain seats in Scotlanf - IF they are at all accurate.
    I hope you are keeping an eye on your niece -- we don't want her to lose that bequest with a slip of the pen on the ballot paper !
  • Options
    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    viewcode said:

    justin124 said:

    There is growing evidence from these polls that Labour is now well clear of the LDs for the first time since April. That makes it easier to push the message 'If you want to stop Johnson , you have to Vote Labour'.

    Similarly, there is growing evidence from these polls that Labour is well behind Cons and isn't reducing the lead
    Delta does show a slight fall in the Tory lead from 13% to 12%.
    At the same point in the 2017 campaign , Opinium reported a 17% Tory lead with ORB putting them 11% ahead.
    Look at the leader ratings and now Boris is ahead on the NHS by 6

    And do not even think on who is most trusted on brexit

    In Scotland I do believe Nicola has made a big mistake because she has united the union vote sgainst her
    All of that is baked into these Voting Intention figures.If Corbyn campaigns well , that data will shift.
    Re - Scotland I rather agree with you as far as Sturgeon is concerned - but the pro- union vote actually looks divided on those figures with Tories on 24% and Labour on 22%. As I have pointed out in the past, if the SNP fall back at all compared with 2017 , Labour has the potential for significant gains there. I have never expected the SNP to exceed 35% at the next Westminster election - but I would need confirmatory evidence before really accepting the data released tonight.
    If nothing else you are loyal but Corbyn is too far behind in all areas and he is going to lose seats and that is the case in Scotland as well
    No loyalty is involved - I am spoiling my ballot paper. On tonight's figures Labour will gain seats in Scotland - IF they are at all accurate.
    Not a chance
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    justin124 said:

    viewcode said:

    justin124 said:

    There is growing evidence from these polls that Labour is now well clear of the LDs for the first time since April. That makes it easier to push the message 'If you want to stop Johnson , you have to Vote Labour'.

    Similarly, there is growing evidence from these polls that Labour is well behind Cons and isn't reducing the lead
    Delta does show a slight fall in the Tory lead from 13% to 12%.
    At the same point in the 2017 campaign , Opinium reported a 17% Tory lead with ORB putting them 11% ahead.
    Look at the leader ratings and now Boris is ahead on the NHS by 6

    And do not even think on who is most trusted on brexit

    In Scotland I do believe Nicola has made a big mistake because she has united the union vote sgainst her
    This was always going to happen regardless of what Sturgeon said.

    Apart from abandoning the very notion of independence itself what could have Sturgeon said to avoid uniting the unionist vote against her?

    2017 saw unprecedented levels of Unionist tactical voting
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,097

    justin124 said:

    Andrew said:

    Kinda curious to see poll after poll implying a crushing Bozo victory, yet the spreads are stuck on 320.

    Wondering perhaps if the betting markets are fighting the last war, assuming a repeat.

    Looks that way. I think that, most elections, if one party starts the campaign with leads in the range of 10-15 points then they're going to win a crushing victory. Sometimes, rarely, it will be turned around, but it's really hard to do.

    Still, there is a possibility that the YouGov MRP will show something different.
    But it is a smaller lead than enjoyed by the Tories at the same stage in 2017.
    I am also recalling the February 1974 election - which was only a 3 week campaign. In the first week there were polls giving the Tories leads of 8% , 9% and 11%. Barely two weeks later the Tories led in the popular vote by 0.8%.
    You are blinded to reality and in denial
    You think Boris is honest, will complete Brexit and unite the country.
  • Options
    eggegg Posts: 1,749
    egg said:

    GIN1138 said:

    AndyJS said:

    Three VI polls in the Sunday papers

    Opinium/Observer (31st-1st):

    CON 42 (+2)
    LAB 26 (+2)
    LD 16 (+1)
    BXP 9 (-1)

    ORB/Sunday Telegraph (31st-1st):

    CON 36 (+10)
    LAB 28 (-1)
    LD 14 (+6)
    BXP 12 (-2)

    Deltapoll/Mail on Sunday (31st-2nd):

    CON 40 (+3)
    LAB 28 (+4)
    LD 14 (-5)
    BXP 11 (=)

    I suspect the LDs are doing much better than this.
    Who knows.

    In 2005 everyone thought they'd win 100 seats after Iraq. In 2010 we had the Cleggasm yet the Libs lost seats in the end...
    So we are pouring over the numbers looking for signs of Joggasm?
    The Cleggasm didn’t start squirting till that first debate in Bristol?
    Update. Swinstorm much better.

    Swinstorm it is. A tornado valley type twister to lift Dorothy all the way to Downing Street.

    Don’t you just love PB when we set a lead for the rest of the media to follow?
  • Options
    OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    edited November 2019
    justin124 said:

    Andrew said:

    Kinda curious to see poll after poll implying a crushing Bozo victory, yet the spreads are stuck on 320.

    Wondering perhaps if the betting markets are fighting the last war, assuming a repeat.

    Looks that way. I think that, most elections, if one party starts the campaign with leads in the range of 10-15 points then they're going to win a crushing victory. Sometimes, rarely, it will be turned around, but it's really hard to do.

    Still, there is a possibility that the YouGov MRP will show something different.
    But it is a smaller lead than enjoyed by the Tories at the same stage in 2017.
    I am also recalling the February 1974 election - which was only a 3 week campaign. In the first week there were polls giving the Tories leads of 8% , 9% and 11%. Barely two weeks later the Tories led in the popular vote by 0.8%.
    Yes, sometimes it is turned around, but most of the time it won't be.
    2001 - Labour had double-digit poll leads. They won a crushing victory.
    1997 - Labout had double-digit poll leads. They won a crushing victory.
    1987 - The Tories had some double-digit poll leads. They won a crushing victory.
    1983 - The Tories had double-digit poll leads. They won a crushing victory.

    2019 - The Tories have double digit poll leads. The most likely outcome is that they win a crushing victory.
  • Options
    JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,228
    So according to that ST article, YouGov are showing the Tory lead down to 12% with Labour up 6 to 27 and the Cons only up 3 to 39.
  • Options
    RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679
    Scott_P said:
    I'm not a Corbyn basher, but this does seem to be some usage of the word 'bounce' I am not familiar with.
  • Options
    Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,015
    edited November 2019


    You are blinded to reality and in denial

    ^^^^ This from a party loyalist!

    Pot. Kettle. :D
  • Options
    YouGov

    Con 39 (+3)

    Lab 27 (+6)

    LD 16 (-3)

    BXP 7 (-6)
  • Options
    philiph said:

    GIN1138 said:

    AndyJS said:

    Three VI polls in the Sunday papers

    Opinium/Observer (31st-1st):

    CON 42 (+2)
    LAB 26 (+2)
    LD 16 (+1)
    BXP 9 (-1)

    ORB/Sunday Telegraph (31st-1st):

    CON 36 (+10)
    LAB 28 (-1)
    LD 14 (+6)
    BXP 12 (-2)

    Deltapoll/Mail on Sunday (31st-2nd):

    CON 40 (+3)
    LAB 28 (+4)
    LD 14 (-5)
    BXP 11 (=)

    I suspect the LDs are doing much better than this.
    Who knows.

    In 2005 everyone thought they'd win 100 seats after Iraq. In 2010 we had the Cleggasm yet the Libs lost seats in the end...
    Now we are waiting for the Swinstorm©.
    Gimme hope Jo Swinson
    Hope Jo Swinson
    Gimme hope Jo Swinson
    'Fore the morning come
    Gimme hope, Jo Swinson
    Hope, Jo Swinson
    Hope before the morning come
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    You wait all day for a poll and then about 6 come along at once.
  • Options
    Scott_P said:
    Fits the vote for anyone other than Boris, get the communist Corbyn narrative that Boris wants.
  • Options
    eggegg Posts: 1,749

    GIN1138 said:

    Deltapoll

    Net approval

    Boris +-2
    Corbyn -43

    Best for NHS

    Boris 40%
    Corbyn 34%

    Best for Brexit

    Boris 51%
    Corbyn 26%

    Terrible numbers for Jezza. Really dreadful!
    Corbyn 6 behind Boris on the NHS. Maybe the voters want it sold to the US?
    Nope. They just don’t believe they hype and attacks that comes out the unpopular labour leadership. And so shall it continue, probably all up to and passed the point it is privatised.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 59,296
    JohnO said:

    So according to that ST article, YouGov are showing the Tory lead down to 12% with Labour up 6 to 27 and the Cons only up 3 to 39.

    2017 redux :D
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,407
    viewcode said:

    justin124 said:

    There is growing evidence from these polls that Labour is now well clear of the LDs for the first time since April. That makes it easier to push the message 'If you want to stop Johnson , you have to Vote Labour'.

    Similarly, there is growing evidence from these polls that Labour is well behind Cons and isn't reducing the lead
    Yes - but justin is correct that the route to improving the outcome goes through avoiding anti-Tory voters wandering off to the LibDems in Lab-Con marginals. I'm reasonably OK with these polls at this point - I'll explain why in a header tomorrow.
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Andrew said:

    Kinda curious to see poll after poll implying a crushing Bozo victory, yet the spreads are stuck on 320.

    Wondering perhaps if the betting markets are fighting the last war, assuming a repeat.

    You've hit the nail on the head I think. Generals fighting the last war.
  • Options
    Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,011
    egg said:

    egg said:

    GIN1138 said:

    AndyJS said:

    Three VI polls in the Sunday papers

    Opinium/Observer (31st-1st):

    CON 42 (+2)
    LAB 26 (+2)
    LD 16 (+1)
    BXP 9 (-1)

    ORB/Sunday Telegraph (31st-1st):

    CON 36 (+10)
    LAB 28 (-1)
    LD 14 (+6)
    BXP 12 (-2)

    Deltapoll/Mail on Sunday (31st-2nd):

    CON 40 (+3)
    LAB 28 (+4)
    LD 14 (-5)
    BXP 11 (=)

    I suspect the LDs are doing much better than this.
    Who knows.

    In 2005 everyone thought they'd win 100 seats after Iraq. In 2010 we had the Cleggasm yet the Libs lost seats in the end...
    So we are pouring over the numbers looking for signs of Joggasm?
    The Cleggasm didn’t start squirting till that first debate in Bristol?
    Update. Swinstorm much better.

    Swinstorm it is. A tornado valley type twister to lift Dorothy all the way to Downing Street.

    Don’t you just love PB when we set a lead for the rest of the media to follow?
    Needs to have love-in connotations like Cleggasm. May I humbly suggest Swinswoon.
  • Options
    egg said:

    egg said:

    GIN1138 said:

    AndyJS said:

    Three VI polls in the Sunday papers

    Opinium/Observer (31st-1st):

    CON 42 (+2)
    LAB 26 (+2)
    LD 16 (+1)
    BXP 9 (-1)

    ORB/Sunday Telegraph (31st-1st):

    CON 36 (+10)
    LAB 28 (-1)
    LD 14 (+6)
    BXP 12 (-2)

    Deltapoll/Mail on Sunday (31st-2nd):

    CON 40 (+3)
    LAB 28 (+4)
    LD 14 (-5)
    BXP 11 (=)

    I suspect the LDs are doing much better than this.
    Who knows.

    In 2005 everyone thought they'd win 100 seats after Iraq. In 2010 we had the Cleggasm yet the Libs lost seats in the end...
    So we are pouring over the numbers looking for signs of Joggasm?
    The Cleggasm didn’t start squirting till that first debate in Bristol?
    Update. Swinstorm much better.

    Swinstorm it is. A tornado valley type twister to lift Dorothy all the way to Downing Street.

    Don’t you just love PB when we set a lead for the rest of the media to follow?
    Swinson now has to give the media reason to use the term.
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    JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,228
    Has the latest ComRes been published here?

    Tory lead up to 8

    Con 36 +3
    Lab 28 -1
    LD 17 -1
    BP 10 -2
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,774
    felix said:

    Delta poll

    Deltapoll/Mail on Sunday (31st-2nd):

    CON 40 (+3)
    LAB 28 (+4)
    LD 14 (-5)
    BXP 11 (=)

    Either all of these polls are crap or the Lds are on the slide.
    The LDs are definitely slipping. I wouldn't like to be long them at 45 seats.
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    nunu2nunu2 Posts: 1,453
    Ooh looks like Corbyn has narrowed the tory lead in yougov
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,407
    AndyJS said:

    <

    I suspect the LDs are doing much better than this.

    What makes you think that? What we don't know is how much the figures are concentrating in marginals, of course. But although Corbyn is behind Johnson in every catrgory on the latest poll, Swinson is behind Corbyn in every category too (except Grinch!), and the LibDems have made her a central figure in their literature, so I'm not sure it's still lack of familiarity.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,650
    Pro_Rata said:

    egg said:

    egg said:

    GIN1138 said:

    AndyJS said:

    Three VI polls in the Sunday papers

    Opinium/Observer (31st-1st):

    CON 42 (+2)
    LAB 26 (+2)
    LD 16 (+1)
    BXP 9 (-1)

    ORB/Sunday Telegraph (31st-1st):

    CON 36 (+10)
    LAB 28 (-1)
    LD 14 (+6)
    BXP 12 (-2)

    Deltapoll/Mail on Sunday (31st-2nd):

    CON 40 (+3)
    LAB 28 (+4)
    LD 14 (-5)
    BXP 11 (=)

    I suspect the LDs are doing much better than this.
    Who knows.

    In 2005 everyone thought they'd win 100 seats after Iraq. In 2010 we had the Cleggasm yet the Libs lost seats in the end...
    So we are pouring over the numbers looking for signs of Joggasm?
    The Cleggasm didn’t start squirting till that first debate in Bristol?
    Update. Swinstorm much better.

    Swinstorm it is. A tornado valley type twister to lift Dorothy all the way to Downing Street.

    Don’t you just love PB when we set a lead for the rest of the media to follow?
    Needs to have love-in connotations like Cleggasm. May I humbly suggest Swinswoon.
    These pollls may represent her Swinsong.....
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    nunu2nunu2 Posts: 1,453
    As I said, the media want a close race hence the ridiculous spin
    Otherwise it will be a boring 6 weeks
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    JohnO said:

    Has the latest ComRes been published here?

    Tory lead up to 8

    Con 36 +3
    Lab 28 -1
    LD 17 -1
    BP 10 -2

    Yes it has!
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    eggegg Posts: 1,749
    edited November 2019
    I agree, silly isn’t it. Boris in crisis because his rating chugging ever upward are running out of steam.

    Like the papers coverage of the football, when you haven’t won for 4 games suddenly you’re in crisis.

    What’s interesting getting so many polls at once is the clear trend. Tories round about 40, labour about 27, libdems about 18. Brexit Party crushed and not even a player now.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Floater said:

    Those attempts to downplay the anti semitism problem have got off to a bad start

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/11/02/labour-suspends-art-critic-standing-parliamentary-candidate/

    How will George Osborne react?
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    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    justin124 said:

    Andrew said:

    Kinda curious to see poll after poll implying a crushing Bozo victory, yet the spreads are stuck on 320.

    Wondering perhaps if the betting markets are fighting the last war, assuming a repeat.

    Looks that way. I think that, most elections, if one party starts the campaign with leads in the range of 10-15 points then they're going to win a crushing victory. Sometimes, rarely, it will be turned around, but it's really hard to do.

    Still, there is a possibility that the YouGov MRP will show something different.
    But it is a smaller lead than enjoyed by the Tories at the same stage in 2017.
    I am also recalling the February 1974 election - which was only a 3 week campaign. In the first week there were polls giving the Tories leads of 8% , 9% and 11%. Barely two weeks later the Tories led in the popular vote by 0.8%.
    Yes, sometimes it is turned around, but most of the time it won't be.
    2001 - Labour had double-digit poll leads. They won a crushing victory.
    1997 - Labout had double-digit poll leads. They won a crushing victory.
    1987 - The Tories had some double-digit poll leads. They won a crushing victory.
    1983 - The Tories had double-digit poll leads. They won a crushing victory.

    2019 - The Tories have double digit poll leads. The most likely outcome is that they win a crushing victory.
    But in both 1997 and 2001 Labour's lead in the popular vote was much smaller than polls were suggesting early in those campaigns. In 1997 Labour won by 13% - in 2001 the margin was circa 9% -, but polls had been predicting 20% plus margins for much of both campaigns.
    In 1987 the Tories began with leads as high as 18% - and won by 11.8%. The Tory margin held up in 1983 - but the vote shares of both parties fell back as a result of the Alliance surge.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,650
    Not if its on polling day!
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,252
    The right wing press aren't going to make the same mistake as in 2017. They'll make this out to be close when right now it's nothing of the sort
  • Options
    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    YouGov

    Con 39 (+3)

    Lab 27 (+6)

    LD 16 (-3)

    BXP 7 (-6)

    Labour's highest vote share with Yougov since end of April. Labour began the 2017 campaign with a 24% share.
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    eggegg Posts: 1,749
    edited November 2019

    philiph said:

    GIN1138 said:

    AndyJS said:

    Three VI polls in the Sunday papers

    Opinium/Observer (31st-1st):

    CON 42 (+2)
    LAB 26 (+2)
    LD 16 (+1)
    BXP 9 (-1)

    ORB/Sunday Telegraph (31st-1st):

    CON 36 (+10)
    LAB 28 (-1)
    LD 14 (+6)
    BXP 12 (-2)

    Deltapoll/Mail on Sunday (31st-2nd):

    CON 40 (+3)
    LAB 28 (+4)
    LD 14 (-5)
    BXP 11 (=)

    I suspect the LDs are doing much better than this.
    Who knows.

    In 2005 everyone thought they'd win 100 seats after Iraq. In 2010 we had the Cleggasm yet the Libs lost seats in the end...
    Now we are waiting for the Swinstorm©.
    Gimme hope Jo Swinson
    Hope Jo Swinson
    Gimme hope Jo Swinson
    'Fore the morning come
    Gimme hope, Jo Swinson
    Hope, Jo Swinson
    Hope before the morning come
    But there’s still time for the Swinstorm (c)philih once she starts debating.
    How does she normally debate, serene, respectful, with the aura of experience and wisdom the moment needs?
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,252
    Tory absolute share heading north lessens losses to Lib Dems and SNP too
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 59,296
    Pulpstar said:

    The right wing press aren't going to make the same mistake as in 2017. They'll make this out to be close when right now it's nothing of the sort

    It was the Sun wot lost it in 2017? :o
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    nunu2nunu2 Posts: 1,453
    Pulpstar said:

    The right wing press aren't going to make the same mistake as in 2017. They'll make this out to be close when right now it's nothing of the sort

    Seems like it.
  • Options

    YouGov

    Con 39 (+3)

    Lab 27 (+6)

    LD 16 (-3)

    BXP 7 (-6)

    Concerning thing is there is a lot of LD to squeeze there. BXP squeeze nearly complete.
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    The Comres Scottish subsample is (because that is apparently a thing serious newspapers now report on)

    SNP 46%
    CON 16%
    LAB 19%
    LD 9%

    Stick that in your seat calculator and smoke it
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758


    You are blinded to reality and in denial

    ^^^^ This from a party loyalist!

    Pot. Kettle. :D
    I believe he only recently joined the Tory party...
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Pulpstar said:

    The right wing press aren't going to make the same mistake as in 2017. They'll make this out to be close when right now it's nothing of the sort

    Yes, the current average Tory lead delivered a 100 seat majority for Mrs Thatcher in 1987.
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    OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    edited November 2019

    AndyJS said:

    <

    I suspect the LDs are doing much better than this.

    What makes you think that? What we don't know is how much the figures are concentrating in marginals, of course. But although Corbyn is behind Johnson in every catrgory on the latest poll, Swinson is behind Corbyn in every category too (except Grinch!), and the LibDems have made her a central figure in their literature, so I'm not sure it's still lack of familiarity.
    The problem with the glossy Jo Swinson booklet was that the content was really poor. Lots of vague vacuous statements, not grounded in lived experience, or stories that people could relate to. The response to a question about why she was involved in politics mentioned student campaigning she did at university, but the most specific thing referred to is "Body Shop petitions" whatever that means.

    I remember the stuff that the Tories sent out in 2010, and it was so much better (even though I strongly disagreed with the politics). So far, and it's *very* early, they look to be missing out on a big opportunity.
  • Options
    AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    So looks like we have three tiers now:

    Comres/Orb/Survation 8%
    Panel/YG/Delta 11/12/12
    Opinium (and guessing Kantar) 16%
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,650
  • Options
    Leia beat him to it, saying "It's a Trap!" twice to Luke after his arrival in Cloud City!
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 93,571

    Delta poll

    Deltapoll/Mail on Sunday (31st-2nd):

    CON 40 (+3)
    LAB 28 (+4)
    LD 14 (-5)
    BXP 11 (=)

    Just one poll, etc, but that's a mighty big LD drop. Still a big improvement on last time, but those fickle voters might just not deliver for them once again.
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    YouGov

    Con 39 (+3)

    Lab 27 (+6)

    LD 16 (-3)

    BXP 7 (-6)

    Concerning thing is there is a lot of LD to squeeze there. BXP squeeze nearly complete.
    On the face of it the Brexit Party squeeze has benefited Labour and Conservatives equally. So that would imply that it's irrelevant.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 93,571
    egg said:

    viewcode said:

    justin124 said:

    There is growing evidence from these polls that Labour is now well clear of the LDs for the first time since April. That makes it easier to push the message 'If you want to stop Johnson , you have to Vote Labour'.

    Similarly, there is growing evidence from these polls that Labour is well behind Cons and isn't reducing the lead
    Let’s not demoralise Justin before the end of the first week. Where’s the sport in that.

    Keep telling yourself Justin, All oppositions recover from bad polls, it’s always governments who die in the end.

    Hang in till at least last weekend before polling hoping something miraculous will turn up.
    I think if labour are not closing the gap at all in the next couple of weeks thered be reason to be very concerned for labour. Thus early on it's just concerning for them without giving reason to give up hope.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    PagetVC said:
    I’m not sure that’s a fair headline on the second story. Before I read it my assumption was that Boris had made a gay rape comment
  • Options
    eggegg Posts: 1,749
    Pro_Rata said:

    egg said:

    egg said:

    GIN1138 said:

    AndyJS said:

    Three VI polls in the Sunday papers

    Opinium/Observer (31st-1st):

    CON 42 (+2)
    LAB 26 (+2)
    LD 16 (+1)
    BXP 9 (-1)

    ORB/Sunday Telegraph (31st-1st):

    CON 36 (+10)
    LAB 28 (-1)
    LD 14 (+6)
    BXP 12 (-2)

    Deltapoll/Mail on Sunday (31st-2nd):

    CON 40 (+3)
    LAB 28 (+4)
    LD 14 (-5)
    BXP 11 (=)

    I suspect the LDs are doing much better than this.
    Who knows.

    In 2005 everyone thought they'd win 100 seats after Iraq. In 2010 we had the Cleggasm yet the Libs lost seats in the end...
    So we are pouring over the numbers looking for signs of Joggasm?
    The Cleggasm didn’t start squirting till that first debate in Bristol?
    Update. Swinstorm much better.

    Swinstorm it is. A tornado valley type twister to lift Dorothy all the way to Downing Street.

    Don’t you just love PB when we set a lead for the rest of the media to follow?
    Needs to have love-in connotations like Cleggasm. May I humbly suggest Swinswoon.
    Oh I love swinswoon. Very good. Very strong.
    It’s up there with swinstorm. Just marginally behind I suggest, because it’s not so slippy off the tongue, and a storm is a storm is a storm, which you’d rather have in politics than a swoon?
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    Alistair said:

    The Comres Scottish subsample is (because that is apparently a thing serious newspapers now report on)

    SNP 46%
    CON 16%
    LAB 19%
    LD 9%

    Stick that in your seat calculator and smoke it

    Hopefully this will be the end of discussion of single Scottish subsamples in isolation, and we'll soon have a proper Scotland poll instead.
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    Charles said:


    You are blinded to reality and in denial

    ^^^^ This from a party loyalist!

    Pot. Kettle. :D
    I believe he only recently joined the Tory party...
    No - I rejoined ten days ago
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 93,571

    AndyJS said:

    Can anyone tell me any policy issue outside revoke the lib dems stand for

    All anyone hears is revoke and that could be a very big error

    Why on earth did they not adopt the peoples vote (daft name) and openly campaign for a referendum. Curious to say the least

    A fairer voting system.
    Is that it - really ?
    You did not ask for a complete list of their policies, you asked for 'any policy issue' they stand for.

    So of course that's not it.
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    PaulMPaulM Posts: 613

    Charles said:


    You are blinded to reality and in denial

    ^^^^ This from a party loyalist!

    Pot. Kettle. :D
    I believe he only recently joined the Tory party...
    No - I rejoined ten days ago
    Ten days is a long time in politics
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    alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    This is going to get very boring if we have another election campaign where the media spend all the time constantly talking about opinion polls. It’s almost as if the worse the pollsters perform election after election, the more the press treat them as definitive guides to public opinion. Madness!
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    eggegg Posts: 1,749

    YouGov

    Con 39 (+3)

    Lab 27 (+6)

    LD 16 (-3)

    BXP 7 (-6)

    Concerning thing is there is a lot of LD to squeeze there. BXP squeeze nearly complete.
    Interesting point.

    And if BP get traction could they squeeze back, and it becomes a game of who squeeze me last laughs loudest?
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 93,571
    justin124 said:

    YouGov

    Con 39 (+3)

    Lab 27 (+6)

    LD 16 (-3)

    BXP 7 (-6)

    Labour's highest vote share with Yougov since end of April. Labour began the 2017 campaign with a 24% share.
    A lot of people want to believe LD voters wont go Lab again, or that it makes no sense. Early days, but theres at least some indications that is bollocks.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 118,254
    I doubt Warren' health plans will hit her with Democratic primary voters, with general election voters maybe
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    egg said:

    YouGov

    Con 39 (+3)

    Lab 27 (+6)

    LD 16 (-3)

    BXP 7 (-6)

    Concerning thing is there is a lot of LD to squeeze there. BXP squeeze nearly complete.
    Interesting point.

    And if BP get traction could they squeeze back, and it becomes a game of who squeeze me last laughs loudest?
    QTWAIN.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:


    You are blinded to reality and in denial

    ^^^^ This from a party loyalist!

    Pot. Kettle. :D
    I believe he only recently joined the Tory party...
    No - I rejoined ten days ago
    I know... I was teasing our Bev
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 93,571
    alex. said:

    This is going to get very boring if we have another election campaign where the media spend all the time constantly talking about opinion polls. It’s almost as if the worse the pollsters perform election after election, the more the press treat them as definitive guides to public opinion. Madness!

    It's a simple area to focus on and reporting them cannot draw complaint in the way reporting on an actual event does.
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    eggegg Posts: 1,749

    YouGov

    Con 39 (+3)

    Lab 27 (+6)

    LD 16 (-3)

    BXP 7 (-6)

    Concerning thing is there is a lot of LD to squeeze there. BXP squeeze nearly complete.
    On the face of it the Brexit Party squeeze has benefited Labour and Conservatives equally. So that would imply that it's irrelevant.
    You are sort of saying many of those brexiteers were lefties all along and stick with Labour in GE, BP in EU?
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,270
    So tonights polls have leads of 8,8,12,12,16 average lead 11.2%
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    So tonights polls have leads of 8,8,12,12,16 average lead 11.2%

    The precise lead the Tories had in 1987 = 102 seat majority. No reason to think the same thing wouldn't happen this year.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,650

    YouGov

    Con 39 (+3)

    Lab 27 (+6)

    LD 16 (-3)

    BXP 7 (-6)

    Concerning thing is there is a lot of LD to squeeze there. BXP squeeze nearly complete.
    It is a real risk if LibDem voters come to the conclusion that Revoke with the Libdems is dead but there is still a chance with Labour's renegotiation then second vote.

    However, it requires LibDems to vote for the anti-semites. They have to hold their nose and overcome their gag reflex. It's not for all by any means.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 118,254
    Alistair said:

    The Comres Scottish subsample is (because that is apparently a thing serious newspapers now report on)

    SNP 46%
    CON 16%
    LAB 19%
    LD 9%

    Stick that in your seat calculator and smoke it

    SNP still polling below 2015 levels even then
  • Options
    Charles said:

    PagetVC said:
    I’m not sure that’s a fair headline on the second story. Before I read it my assumption was that Boris had made a gay rape comment
    I agree
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    eggegg Posts: 1,749

    egg said:

    YouGov

    Con 39 (+3)

    Lab 27 (+6)

    LD 16 (-3)

    BXP 7 (-6)

    Concerning thing is there is a lot of LD to squeeze there. BXP squeeze nearly complete.
    Interesting point.

    And if BP get traction could they squeeze back, and it becomes a game of who squeeze me last laughs loudest?
    QTWAIN.
    I’ll take that as no then. No BP squeeze back once their juice all squeezed out.

    So their YouGov won’t be getting back into double figures at Boris expense.

    They’ve been juiced.

    And there was me thinking I was actually in agreement with you.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,650
    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:

    The Comres Scottish subsample is (because that is apparently a thing serious newspapers now report on)

    SNP 46%
    CON 16%
    LAB 19%
    LD 9%

    Stick that in your seat calculator and smoke it

    SNP still polling below 2015 levels even then
    But another poor number for the LibDems. The got 7% there in 2017.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    "Tory campaign in trouble because their lead has dropped from 13% to 12%".

    That seems to be the standard of the commentary tonight from the newspapers.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 118,254

    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:

    The Comres Scottish subsample is (because that is apparently a thing serious newspapers now report on)

    SNP 46%
    CON 16%
    LAB 19%
    LD 9%

    Stick that in your seat calculator and smoke it

    SNP still polling below 2015 levels even then
    But another poor number for the LibDems. The got 7% there in 2017.
    Still 2% up though not much
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    Betfair SNP under 51.5 seats looks value.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,252
    The Lib Dems need to do something or other and fast.
This discussion has been closed.