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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » How each of the constituencies voted at the Referendum

SystemSystem Posts: 12,171
edited October 2019 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » How each of the constituencies voted at the Referendum

One thing’s for sure in the coming battle is how individual seats voted in the referendum on June 23rd 2016. Above is the standard reference on this projected by the leading political scientist, Prof Chris Hanretty of Royal Holloway. Most seats are just projections but in a number there are real results coming from councils which issued data down to ward level.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,234
    Stocky said:

    Andy_Cooke says:

    "Should children be allowed to get married?
    Or have sex?
    Or drive cars and motorbikes?
    Should the police be allowed to interrogate children without an adult present?
    Change their name by deed poll?
    Fly planes and helicopters?"


    Should children be allowed to get married? NO
    Or have sex? IF OVER 16 AND THEY CHOOSE TO
    Or drive cars and motorbikes? NO
    Should the police be allowed to interrogate children without an adult present? NO
    Change their name by deed poll? NO
    Fly planes and helicopters?" NO

    And....

    Be able to vote in a GE? NO

    Surely regarding children, sex and voting should be treated similarly.

    It should be theoretically illegal but unless there's influence from an adult, and the people are nearly of age, then it's largely ignored and accepted.

    (And that Google Link requires permission to access...)
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239
    edited October 2019
    Second like Labour in number of seats. I’m not confident to call the popular vote...
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Not very fair that Anne Main spoke for 35 minutes and Caroline Lucas gets 3 minutes for her speech.
  • spudgfshspudgfsh Posts: 1,494

    Second like Labour in number of seats.

    Hopeful are you?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,149
    The Tories should be hoping to take all the strongest Leave voting seats and the LDs will equally be hoping to take the strongest Remain voting seats
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    HYUFD said:

    The Tories should be hoping to take all the strongest Leave voting seats and the LDs will equally be hoping to take the strongest Remain voting seats

    I think it's precisely that that explains the glum faces on the Labour benches.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,234
    AndyJS said:

    Not very fair that Anne Main spoke for 35 minutes and Caroline Lucas gets 3 minutes for her speech.

    To be fair, that's the last speech in the House of Commons that Anne Main is likely to make.
  • ralphmalphralphmalph Posts: 2,201
    guardian reporting that votes 16/17 and EU nationals have not been selected.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    A spectacularly florid speech from Deidrie Brock of the SNP.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,717
    edited October 2019
    HYUFD said:

    The Tories should be hoping to take all the strongest Leave voting seats and the LDs will equally be hoping to take the strongest Remain voting seats

    If the Brexit Party does relatively well, they will prevent the Conservatives winning seats from Labour, and supercharge the Lib Dems in Tory areas.

    Nigel Farage could put Jo Swinson in Downing Street.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    The 'strongest leave voting seats' do have some pretty entrenched and well known labour figures - eg Yvette Cooper....surely she would be safe.
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679
    HYUFD said:

    The Tories should be hoping to take all the strongest Leave voting seats and the LDs will equally be hoping to take the strongest Remain voting seats

    Will it be that symmetrical? I wonder. Apart from on BBC news broadcasts I haven't really picked up the feeling that people in the North are that fussed about Brexit. While my little home counties town supplied quite a contingent to the People's Vote march.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,236
    AndyJS said:

    Not very fair that Anne Main spoke for 35 minutes and Caroline Lucas gets 3 minutes for her speech.

    On any of us.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    The Google sheets in the header seem to require various permissions before they show
  • rcs1000 said:

    AndyJS said:

    Not very fair that Anne Main spoke for 35 minutes and Caroline Lucas gets 3 minutes for her speech.

    To be fair, that's the last speech in the House of Commons that Anne Main is likely to make.
    If only the same could be said for Lucas.
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979
    HYUFD said:

    The Tories should be hoping to take all the strongest Leave voting seats and the LDs will equally be hoping to take the strongest Remain voting seats

    You dont think Tories will be put off canvassing in the dark in some very deprieved areas, that might have increased levels of violence against the person? I live in a large town in the north and make sure i am back by nightfall or i get a lift, taxi or bus. I would not go out and about in the dark and knock on doors in an area i did not know...
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    rcs1000 said:

    AndyJS said:

    Not very fair that Anne Main spoke for 35 minutes and Caroline Lucas gets 3 minutes for her speech.

    To be fair, that's the last speech in the House of Commons that Anne Main is likely to make.
    I agree, although the LDs have always done slightly worse in St Albans than expected at general elections over the years. A lot of people who vote LD at local elections must switch to the Tories at GEs.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    AndyJS said:

    Not very fair that Anne Main spoke for 35 minutes and Caroline Lucas gets 3 minutes for her speech.

    Given that the whole debate is time limited and the chamber is fairly empty, I don’t really understand why the Brexiters were intent on wasting so much time. Main likely knows it is her last speech as an MP, but there were other wafflers who are surely safe in their seats.
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760

    HYUFD said:

    The Tories should be hoping to take all the strongest Leave voting seats and the LDs will equally be hoping to take the strongest Remain voting seats

    Will it be that symmetrical? I wonder. Apart from on BBC news broadcasts I haven't really picked up the feeling that people in the North are that fussed about Brexit. While my little home counties town supplied quite a contingent to the People's Vote march.
    The North certainly doesn't seem fussed about going on a People's Vote march that much is true.
  • rcs1000 said:

    AndyJS said:

    Not very fair that Anne Main spoke for 35 minutes and Caroline Lucas gets 3 minutes for her speech.

    To be fair, that's the last speech in the House of Commons that Anne Main is likely to make.
    Why are people so confidently predicting that? Her majority was slashed last time but she still has a massive majority. If Tories are losing seats with such a big majority it seems unlikely they will hold a majority overall.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,814

    The 'strongest leave voting seats' do have some pretty entrenched and well known labour figures - eg Yvette Cooper....surely she would be safe.

    Actually that’s one I’ve got my eye on. I think with a 14k majority she’s likely safe but her vote could take a significant tumble.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Maybe someone could ask Chris Hanretty to make the spreadsheet public to all viewers. Otherwise you have to sign in to view it.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    HYUFD said:

    The Tories should be hoping to take all the strongest Leave voting seats and the LDs will equally be hoping to take the strongest Remain voting seats

    If the Brexit Party does relatively well, they will prevent the Conservatives winning seats from Labour, and supercharge the Lib Dems in Tory areas.

    Nigel Farage could put Jo Swinson in Downing Street.
    I reckon the BXP will be choosy as to where it stands, and the Tories will deny any involvement.

    So it’s over to the Remain parties to get their act together.
  • Hmm. I need to request access to be able to look at the sheet in the header.
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979

    HYUFD said:

    The Tories should be hoping to take all the strongest Leave voting seats and the LDs will equally be hoping to take the strongest Remain voting seats

    Will it be that symmetrical? I wonder. Apart from on BBC news broadcasts I haven't really picked up the feeling that people in the North are that fussed about Brexit. While my little home counties town supplied quite a contingent to the People's Vote march.
    Hyufd has no idea. He wont be knocking on doors in the dark in deprived areas in the north...
  • AndyJS said:

    A spectacularly florid speech from Deidrie Brock of the SNP.

    A very amusing speech. I liked her like "we will burn that bridge when we get to it"
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    I was saying to a mate that John Curtice's prediction about non Lab/Tory seats isn't much of a prediction. It only requires about 15 combined gains for SNP & Lib Dem which is 80% likely anyway.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,234

    rcs1000 said:

    AndyJS said:

    Not very fair that Anne Main spoke for 35 minutes and Caroline Lucas gets 3 minutes for her speech.

    To be fair, that's the last speech in the House of Commons that Anne Main is likely to make.
    Why are people so confidently predicting that? Her majority was slashed last time but she still has a massive majority. If Tories are losing seats with such a big majority it seems unlikely they will hold a majority overall.
    She doesn't have a massive majority, she has a 6,000 vote one.

    On my four part model:

    1. UNS?

    LD by a big margin.

    2. Remainy?

    Yes very.

    3. Local elections?

    LDs did extremely well this year.

    4. Squeezability?

    Lots of Lab votes to go LD

    rcs1000 says "one of about a dozen LD gains this year"
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679
    Brom said:

    HYUFD said:

    The Tories should be hoping to take all the strongest Leave voting seats and the LDs will equally be hoping to take the strongest Remain voting seats

    Will it be that symmetrical? I wonder. Apart from on BBC news broadcasts I haven't really picked up the feeling that people in the North are that fussed about Brexit. While my little home counties town supplied quite a contingent to the People's Vote march.
    The North certainly doesn't seem fussed about going on a People's Vote march that much is true.
    Well they aren't marching at all are they. My point was that maybe Brexiters aren't as motivated as all that compared to leavers, so HYFUD may find that Brexit loses the Tories support in their normally strong areas without as much compensation in places that don't generally back them.
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    I believe this spreadsheet is available from the Commons Library website.

    https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/parliament-and-elections/elections-elections/brexit-votes-by-constituency/
  • HYUFD said:

    The Tories should be hoping to take all the strongest Leave voting seats and the LDs will equally be hoping to take the strongest Remain voting seats

    Will it be that symmetrical? I wonder. Apart from on BBC news broadcasts I haven't really picked up the feeling that people in the North are that fussed about Brexit. While my little home counties town supplied quite a contingent to the People's Vote march.
    Most people I know here in a big northern city are exceptionally angry with all parliamentarians who have blocked Brexit

  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760

    Brom said:

    HYUFD said:

    The Tories should be hoping to take all the strongest Leave voting seats and the LDs will equally be hoping to take the strongest Remain voting seats

    Will it be that symmetrical? I wonder. Apart from on BBC news broadcasts I haven't really picked up the feeling that people in the North are that fussed about Brexit. While my little home counties town supplied quite a contingent to the People's Vote march.
    The North certainly doesn't seem fussed about going on a People's Vote march that much is true.
    Well they aren't marching at all are they. My point was that maybe Brexiters aren't as motivated as all that compared to leavers, so HYFUD may find that Brexit loses the Tories support in their normally strong areas without as much compensation in places that don't generally back them.
    You are possibly correct, but I think more likely these are the sort of people who won't go down to London with kooky banners and kumbaya singalongs. They will moan in their living rooms, pubs and maybe on facebook about Brexit betrayal and be raring to change things via the ballot box.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,234

    rcs1000 said:

    AndyJS said:

    Not very fair that Anne Main spoke for 35 minutes and Caroline Lucas gets 3 minutes for her speech.

    To be fair, that's the last speech in the House of Commons that Anne Main is likely to make.
    Why are people so confidently predicting that? Her majority was slashed last time but she still has a massive majority. If Tories are losing seats with such a big majority it seems unlikely they will hold a majority overall.
    On UNS, the LDs gain about 17 seats from the Conservatives, but the Conservatives gain more than that from the Labour Party.

    Personally, I think the LDs will do less well than that, probably picking up 7 or 8 Conservative seats, one SNP and 2-3 Labour.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited October 2019
    I'd like to bet on the LDs coming second in the popular vote. Whether I can find anywhere that's offering such a bet is another matter. At the moment they're only about 5 points behind Labour using the polling averages.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited October 2019
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    AndyJS said:

    Not very fair that Anne Main spoke for 35 minutes and Caroline Lucas gets 3 minutes for her speech.

    To be fair, that's the last speech in the House of Commons that Anne Main is likely to make.
    Why are people so confidently predicting that? Her majority was slashed last time but she still has a massive majority. If Tories are losing seats with such a big majority it seems unlikely they will hold a majority overall.
    She doesn't have a massive majority, she has a 6,000 vote one.

    On my four part model:

    1. UNS?

    LD by a big margin.

    2. Remainy?

    Yes very.

    3. Local elections?

    LDs did extremely well this year.

    4. Squeezability?

    Lots of Lab votes to go LD

    rcs1000 says "one of about a dozen LD gains this year"
    Any majority over 5000 and over 10% in normal times is fairly massive, especially when a party is forecast to be gaining not losing seats! 6000 votes and 10.7% majority is pretty massive in my eyes especially given this is a general election not a by election.

    Is UNS really showing LDs taking 10.7% majorities by a big margin?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    HYUFD said:

    The Tories should be hoping to take all the strongest Leave voting seats and the LDs will equally be hoping to take the strongest Remain voting seats

    Will it be that symmetrical? I wonder. Apart from on BBC news broadcasts I haven't really picked up the feeling that people in the North are that fussed about Brexit. While my little home counties town supplied quite a contingent to the People's Vote march.
    First law of politics is that people opposed to anything are always the most exercised.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424
    In reply to an earlier question:

    Hi @DecrepitJohnL

    At the precise moment you asked your question, I was at a bus stop in Mdina waiting rather impatiently for a 186.

    There are, to my knowledge, two PMs who never actually attended Parliament while in office. One was Lord Goderich, 1827-28. His predecessor died while Parliament was in recess, and he had a nervous breakdown before it was recalled.

    The other was the Marquis of Bath, who was PM for the princely sum of two days in February 1746, returning the commission when he was unable to form a cabinet. One pamphlet drily called him, ‘ the most wise and honest of all administrations, the minister having ... never transacted one rash thing; and, what is more marvellous, left as much money in the T[reasur]y as he found in it.’

    Of course, in terms of percentage I would expect the lowest would be one of our own time. A certain Anthony Charles Lynton Blair attended less than 2% of all debates in the Commons while PM. One magazine had to defend naming him Parliamentarian of the Year after this emerged, and the editor said he only gave Blair the award to annoy Gordon Brown.

    Fortunately that editor was such a twat he disappeared without trace In journalism. Anyone know what he’s doing now? His name was Boris Johnson.
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979

    Brom said:

    HYUFD said:

    The Tories should be hoping to take all the strongest Leave voting seats and the LDs will equally be hoping to take the strongest Remain voting seats

    Will it be that symmetrical? I wonder. Apart from on BBC news broadcasts I haven't really picked up the feeling that people in the North are that fussed about Brexit. While my little home counties town supplied quite a contingent to the People's Vote march.
    The North certainly doesn't seem fussed about going on a People's Vote march that much is true.
    Well they aren't marching at all are they. My point was that maybe Brexiters aren't as motivated as all that compared to leavers, so HYFUD may find that Brexit loses the Tories support in their normally strong areas without as much compensation in places that don't generally back them.
    +1 The other interesting angle is where do the Tories get the foot soldiers to canvass target seats? For instance will Tories from Macclesfield or Congleton travel to Stoke onTrent North or Central to canvass an inner city area of deprivation which has seen a decade of deprivation under the Tories? I dont think so! Especially in the dark...
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780
    AndyJS said:

    I'd like to bet on the LDs coming second in the popular vote. Whether I can find anywhere that's offering such a bet is another matter. At the moment they're only about 5 points behind Labour using the polling averages.

    Ladbrokes are offering a match bet between the LDs and Labour, which all but amounts to the same thing.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,234

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    AndyJS said:

    Not very fair that Anne Main spoke for 35 minutes and Caroline Lucas gets 3 minutes for her speech.

    To be fair, that's the last speech in the House of Commons that Anne Main is likely to make.
    Why are people so confidently predicting that? Her majority was slashed last time but she still has a massive majority. If Tories are losing seats with such a big majority it seems unlikely they will hold a majority overall.
    She doesn't have a massive majority, she has a 6,000 vote one.

    On my four part model:

    1. UNS?

    LD by a big margin.

    2. Remainy?

    Yes very.

    3. Local elections?

    LDs did extremely well this year.

    4. Squeezability?

    Lots of Lab votes to go LD

    rcs1000 says "one of about a dozen LD gains this year"
    Any majority over 5000 and over 10% in normal times is fairly massive, especially when a party is forecast to be gaining not losing seats! 6000 votes and 10.7% majority is pretty massive in my eyes especially given this is a general election not a by election.

    Is UNS really showing LDs taking 10.7% majorities by a big margin?
    Of course. The LD vote share is up from 7% to 19%, and the Tories are down from 44% to 37%. If you add 12 point to the LD vote share and take seven from the Conservatives, then it's a LD gain.
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,591

    Brom said:

    HYUFD said:

    The Tories should be hoping to take all the strongest Leave voting seats and the LDs will equally be hoping to take the strongest Remain voting seats

    Will it be that symmetrical? I wonder. Apart from on BBC news broadcasts I haven't really picked up the feeling that people in the North are that fussed about Brexit. While my little home counties town supplied quite a contingent to the People's Vote march.
    The North certainly doesn't seem fussed about going on a People's Vote march that much is true.
    Well they aren't marching at all are they. My point was that maybe Brexiters aren't as motivated as all that compared to leavers, so HYFUD may find that Brexit loses the Tories support in their normally strong areas without as much compensation in places that don't generally back them.
    Yes you can certainly make a case that remainers are more fired up - if there were 1m people motivated enough to turn up for a demo then perhaps 5 times that number are motivated enough to vote tactically? 5 million is a lot of votes, enough to swing many constituencies.

    Twill be an interesting election....
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760

    Brom said:

    HYUFD said:

    The Tories should be hoping to take all the strongest Leave voting seats and the LDs will equally be hoping to take the strongest Remain voting seats

    Will it be that symmetrical? I wonder. Apart from on BBC news broadcasts I haven't really picked up the feeling that people in the North are that fussed about Brexit. While my little home counties town supplied quite a contingent to the People's Vote march.
    The North certainly doesn't seem fussed about going on a People's Vote march that much is true.
    Well they aren't marching at all are they. My point was that maybe Brexiters aren't as motivated as all that compared to leavers, so HYFUD may find that Brexit loses the Tories support in their normally strong areas without as much compensation in places that don't generally back them.
    +1 The other interesting angle is where do the Tories get the foot soldiers to canvass target seats? For instance will Tories from Macclesfield or Congleton travel to Stoke onTrent North or Central to canvass an inner city area of deprivation which has seen a decade of deprivation under the Tories? I dont think so! Especially in the dark...
    Why is it always dark in your world? Most canvassing will take place on weekends when there are hours of light.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Bercow refuses to allow a vote on the second reading.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    Second reading called in favour. Committee stage
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    The deputy speaker hasn't turned up on time.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992

    The 'strongest leave voting seats' do have some pretty entrenched and well known labour figures - eg Yvette Cooper....surely she would be safe.

    I need to find that interview with some bloke on R5 who said that 13 of the 26 Labour "northern leave seats" will remain Labour while Cons might lose its 13 Scots seats leaving it a wash.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    Brom said:

    Brom said:

    HYUFD said:

    The Tories should be hoping to take all the strongest Leave voting seats and the LDs will equally be hoping to take the strongest Remain voting seats

    Will it be that symmetrical? I wonder. Apart from on BBC news broadcasts I haven't really picked up the feeling that people in the North are that fussed about Brexit. While my little home counties town supplied quite a contingent to the People's Vote march.
    The North certainly doesn't seem fussed about going on a People's Vote march that much is true.
    Well they aren't marching at all are they. My point was that maybe Brexiters aren't as motivated as all that compared to leavers, so HYFUD may find that Brexit loses the Tories support in their normally strong areas without as much compensation in places that don't generally back them.
    +1 The other interesting angle is where do the Tories get the foot soldiers to canvass target seats? For instance will Tories from Macclesfield or Congleton travel to Stoke onTrent North or Central to canvass an inner city area of deprivation which has seen a decade of deprivation under the Tories? I dont think so! Especially in the dark...
    Why is it always dark in your world? Most canvassing will take place on weekends when there are hours of light.
    You don’t sound as if you have ever fought an election.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,236
    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    The Tories should be hoping to take all the strongest Leave voting seats and the LDs will equally be hoping to take the strongest Remain voting seats

    Will it be that symmetrical? I wonder. Apart from on BBC news broadcasts I haven't really picked up the feeling that people in the North are that fussed about Brexit. While my little home counties town supplied quite a contingent to the People's Vote march.
    First law of politics is that people opposed to anything are always the most exercised.
    The first law of politics is that politics has an awful lot of first laws.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424
    edited October 2019

    Brom said:

    HYUFD said:

    The Tories should be hoping to take all the strongest Leave voting seats and the LDs will equally be hoping to take the strongest Remain voting seats

    Will it be that symmetrical? I wonder. Apart from on BBC news broadcasts I haven't really picked up the feeling that people in the North are that fussed about Brexit. While my little home counties town supplied quite a contingent to the People's Vote march.
    The North certainly doesn't seem fussed about going on a People's Vote march that much is true.
    Well they aren't marching at all are they. My point was that maybe Brexiters aren't as motivated as all that compared to leavers, so HYFUD may find that Brexit loses the Tories support in their normally strong areas without as much compensation in places that don't generally back them.
    +1 The other interesting angle is where do the Tories get the foot soldiers to canvass target seats? For instance will Tories from Macclesfield or Congleton travel to Stoke onTrent North or Central to canvass an inner city area of deprivation which has seen a decade of deprivation under the Tories? I dont think so! Especially in the dark...
    The point about Stoke on Trent is that it has suffered forty years of austerity under governments of three different parties (four if the DUP are included). Indeed, the worst ravages came in around 2003-2005 with the closure of three of the remaining four factories - under a Labour government.

    It is not, therefore, a happy stamping ground for any political party. It is a happy hunting ground for a Brexit referendum vote, because it was an easy way of sticking two fingers up at politicians.
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979
    Brom said:

    Brom said:

    HYUFD said:

    The Tories should be hoping to take all the strongest Leave voting seats and the LDs will equally be hoping to take the strongest Remain voting seats

    Will it be that symmetrical? I wonder. Apart from on BBC news broadcasts I haven't really picked up the feeling that people in the North are that fussed about Brexit. While my little home counties town supplied quite a contingent to the People's Vote march.
    The North certainly doesn't seem fussed about going on a People's Vote march that much is true.
    Well they aren't marching at all are they. My point was that maybe Brexiters aren't as motivated as all that compared to leavers, so HYFUD may find that Brexit loses the Tories support in their normally strong areas without as much compensation in places that don't generally back them.
    +1 The other interesting angle is where do the Tories get the foot soldiers to canvass target seats? For instance will Tories from Macclesfield or Congleton travel to Stoke onTrent North or Central to canvass an inner city area of deprivation which has seen a decade of deprivation under the Tories? I dont think so! Especially in the dark...
    Why is it always dark in your world? Most canvassing will take place on weekends when there are hours of light.
    Your joking? Have you participated in an election? Your in for a big shock!
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679

    HYUFD said:

    The Tories should be hoping to take all the strongest Leave voting seats and the LDs will equally be hoping to take the strongest Remain voting seats

    Will it be that symmetrical? I wonder. Apart from on BBC news broadcasts I haven't really picked up the feeling that people in the North are that fussed about Brexit. While my little home counties town supplied quite a contingent to the People's Vote march.
    Most people I know here in a big northern city are exceptionally angry with all parliamentarians who have blocked Brexit

    HYUFD said:

    The Tories should be hoping to take all the strongest Leave voting seats and the LDs will equally be hoping to take the strongest Remain voting seats

    Will it be that symmetrical? I wonder. Apart from on BBC news broadcasts I haven't really picked up the feeling that people in the North are that fussed about Brexit. While my little home counties town supplied quite a contingent to the People's Vote march.
    Most people I know here in a big northern city are exceptionally angry with all parliamentarians who have blocked Brexit

    That's interesting. What is it that is about the EU that is making them so angry?

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424
    Nigelb said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    The Tories should be hoping to take all the strongest Leave voting seats and the LDs will equally be hoping to take the strongest Remain voting seats

    Will it be that symmetrical? I wonder. Apart from on BBC news broadcasts I haven't really picked up the feeling that people in the North are that fussed about Brexit. While my little home counties town supplied quite a contingent to the People's Vote march.
    First law of politics is that people opposed to anything are always the most exercised.
    The first law of politics is that politics has an awful lot of first laws.
    Nah, the first law of politics is, ‘count.’

    Apart from anything else, if you can’t count you won’t know how many other first laws of politics there are.
  • Very sad about Heidi Allen but not that much of a surprise given her increasingly erratic behaviour. Presumably the previous LD PPC who had to be nobbled will come back. I thought she had real raw talent but perhaps it was just potential. Very sad.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,236
    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    The Tories should be hoping to take all the strongest Leave voting seats and the LDs will equally be hoping to take the strongest Remain voting seats

    Will it be that symmetrical? I wonder. Apart from on BBC news broadcasts I haven't really picked up the feeling that people in the North are that fussed about Brexit. While my little home counties town supplied quite a contingent to the People's Vote march.
    First law of politics is that people opposed to anything are always the most exercised.
    The first law of politics is that politics has an awful lot of first laws.
    Nah, the first law of politics is, ‘count.’

    Apart from anything else, if you can’t count you won’t know how many other first laws of politics there are.
    One has to establish a whole mathematical framework before one can count.
  • TOPPING said:

    The 'strongest leave voting seats' do have some pretty entrenched and well known labour figures - eg Yvette Cooper....surely she would be safe.

    I need to find that interview with some bloke on R5 who said that 13 of the 26 Labour "northern leave seats" will remain Labour while Cons might lose its 13 Scots seats leaving it a wash.
    Sadly that wouldnt be a wash as Cons will be more Bluekipy and Labour more Corbynista giving us an even worse parliament.
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679

    Brom said:

    HYUFD said:

    The Tories should be hoping to take all the strongest Leave voting seats and the LDs will equally be hoping to take the strongest Remain voting seats

    Will it be that symmetrical? I wonder. Apart from on BBC news broadcasts I haven't really picked up the feeling that people in the North are that fussed about Brexit. While my little home counties town supplied quite a contingent to the People's Vote march.
    The North certainly doesn't seem fussed about going on a People's Vote march that much is true.
    Well they aren't marching at all are they. My point was that maybe Brexiters aren't as motivated as all that compared to leavers, so HYFUD may find that Brexit loses the Tories support in their normally strong areas without as much compensation in places that don't generally back them.
    Yes you can certainly make a case that remainers are more fired up - if there were 1m people motivated enough to turn up for a demo then perhaps 5 times that number are motivated enough to vote tactically? 5 million is a lot of votes, enough to swing many constituencies.

    Twill be an interesting election....
    Yes. I didn't get this first hand I'm afraid, but I have heard that the Lib Dems fancy their chances in Guildford. There aren't huge numbers of seats like Guildford of course, but even so the Tories can't really afford to go backwards.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Brom said:

    HYUFD said:

    The Tories should be hoping to take all the strongest Leave voting seats and the LDs will equally be hoping to take the strongest Remain voting seats

    Will it be that symmetrical? I wonder. Apart from on BBC news broadcasts I haven't really picked up the feeling that people in the North are that fussed about Brexit. While my little home counties town supplied quite a contingent to the People's Vote march.
    The North certainly doesn't seem fussed about going on a People's Vote march that much is true.
    Well they aren't marching at all are they. My point was that maybe Brexiters aren't as motivated as all that compared to leavers, so HYFUD may find that Brexit loses the Tories support in their normally strong areas without as much compensation in places that don't generally back them.
    Yes you can certainly make a case that remainers are more fired up - if there were 1m people motivated enough to turn up for a demo then perhaps 5 times that number are motivated enough to vote tactically? 5 million is a lot of votes, enough to swing many constituencies.

    Twill be an interesting election....
    A very large % will be non Tories anyway
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    Very sad about Heidi Allen but not that much of a surprise given her increasingly erratic behaviour. Presumably the previous LD PPC who had to be nobbled will come back. I thought she had real raw talent but perhaps it was just potential. Very sad.

    What was the erratic behaviour?
  • TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,683

    Brom said:

    HYUFD said:

    The Tories should be hoping to take all the strongest Leave voting seats and the LDs will equally be hoping to take the strongest Remain voting seats

    Will it be that symmetrical? I wonder. Apart from on BBC news broadcasts I haven't really picked up the feeling that people in the North are that fussed about Brexit. While my little home counties town supplied quite a contingent to the People's Vote march.
    The North certainly doesn't seem fussed about going on a People's Vote march that much is true.
    Well they aren't marching at all are they. My point was that maybe Brexiters aren't as motivated as all that compared to leavers, so HYFUD may find that Brexit loses the Tories support in their normally strong areas without as much compensation in places that don't generally back them.
    +1 The other interesting angle is where do the Tories get the foot soldiers to canvass target seats? For instance will Tories from Macclesfield or Congleton travel to Stoke onTrent North or Central to canvass an inner city area of deprivation which has seen a decade of deprivation under the Tories? I dont think so! Especially in the dark...
    Isn't a lot of canvassing done by phone now?
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979
    ydoethur said:

    Brom said:

    HYUFD said:

    The Tories should be hoping to take all the strongest Leave voting seats and the LDs will equally be hoping to take the strongest Remain voting seats

    Will it be that symmetrical? I wonder. Apart from on BBC news broadcasts I haven't really picked up the feeling that people in the North are that fussed about Brexit. While my little home counties town supplied quite a contingent to the People's Vote march.
    The North certainly doesn't seem fussed about going on a People's Vote march that much is true.
    Well they aren't marching at all are they. My point was that maybe Brexiters aren't as motivated as all that compared to leavers, so HYFUD may find that Brexit loses the Tories support in their normally strong areas without as much compensation in places that don't generally back them.
    +1 The other interesting angle is where do the Tories get the foot soldiers to canvass target seats? For instance will Tories from Macclesfield or Congleton travel to Stoke onTrent North or Central to canvass an inner city area of deprivation which has seen a decade of deprivation under the Tories? I dont think so! Especially in the dark...
    The point about Stoke on Trent is that it has suffered forty years of austerity under governments of three different parties (four if the DUP are included). Indeed, the worst ravages came in around 2003-2005 with the closure of three of the remaining four factories - under a Labour government.

    It is not, therefore, a happy stamping ground for any political party. It is a happy hunting ground for a Brexit referendum vote, because it was an easy way of sticking two fingers up at politicians.
    I lived in SOT for 3/4 years. I doubt the Tories will win there and seriously question where the footsoldiers will come from to canvass it. Labour have a machine in those seats. It may not be as robust as it once demonstrated but i am very sceptical about the viability of seats like that as Tory gains, particularly in December...
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992

    Very sad about Heidi Allen but not that much of a surprise given her increasingly erratic behaviour. Presumably the previous LD PPC who had to be nobbled will come back. I thought she had real raw talent but perhaps it was just potential. Very sad.

    Does her increasingly erratic behaviour include being the recipient of vile abuse and death threats?
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780
    TudorRose said:

    Brom said:

    HYUFD said:

    The Tories should be hoping to take all the strongest Leave voting seats and the LDs will equally be hoping to take the strongest Remain voting seats

    Will it be that symmetrical? I wonder. Apart from on BBC news broadcasts I haven't really picked up the feeling that people in the North are that fussed about Brexit. While my little home counties town supplied quite a contingent to the People's Vote march.
    The North certainly doesn't seem fussed about going on a People's Vote march that much is true.
    Well they aren't marching at all are they. My point was that maybe Brexiters aren't as motivated as all that compared to leavers, so HYFUD may find that Brexit loses the Tories support in their normally strong areas without as much compensation in places that don't generally back them.
    +1 The other interesting angle is where do the Tories get the foot soldiers to canvass target seats? For instance will Tories from Macclesfield or Congleton travel to Stoke onTrent North or Central to canvass an inner city area of deprivation which has seen a decade of deprivation under the Tories? I dont think so! Especially in the dark...
    Isn't a lot of canvassing done by phone now?
    No. The vast majority are ex-directory.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    AndyJS said:

    I'd like to bet on the LDs coming second in the popular vote. Whether I can find anywhere that's offering such a bet is another matter. At the moment they're only about 5 points behind Labour using the polling averages.

    Ladbrokes are offering a match bet between the LDs and Labour, which all but amounts to the same thing.
    BFE has a second place market for seats, and vote share markets for Labour and the LibDems where you could construct a proxy. For example if the LibDems come second, Labour is very likely to be in the 20-25% vote share range.
  • ArtistArtist Posts: 1,893
    I really don't understand the will to have a Monday election instead of Thursday.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992

    TOPPING said:

    The 'strongest leave voting seats' do have some pretty entrenched and well known labour figures - eg Yvette Cooper....surely she would be safe.

    I need to find that interview with some bloke on R5 who said that 13 of the 26 Labour "northern leave seats" will remain Labour while Cons might lose its 13 Scots seats leaving it a wash.
    Sadly that wouldnt be a wash as Cons will be more Bluekipy and Labour more Corbynista giving us an even worse parliament.
    That is true.
  • TudorRose said:

    Brom said:

    HYUFD said:

    The Tories should be hoping to take all the strongest Leave voting seats and the LDs will equally be hoping to take the strongest Remain voting seats

    Will it be that symmetrical? I wonder. Apart from on BBC news broadcasts I haven't really picked up the feeling that people in the North are that fussed about Brexit. While my little home counties town supplied quite a contingent to the People's Vote march.
    The North certainly doesn't seem fussed about going on a People's Vote march that much is true.
    Well they aren't marching at all are they. My point was that maybe Brexiters aren't as motivated as all that compared to leavers, so HYFUD may find that Brexit loses the Tories support in their normally strong areas without as much compensation in places that don't generally back them.
    +1 The other interesting angle is where do the Tories get the foot soldiers to canvass target seats? For instance will Tories from Macclesfield or Congleton travel to Stoke onTrent North or Central to canvass an inner city area of deprivation which has seen a decade of deprivation under the Tories? I dont think so! Especially in the dark...
    Isn't a lot of canvassing done by phone now?
    They will zap them with facebook.
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679
    Charles said:

    Brom said:

    HYUFD said:

    The Tories should be hoping to take all the strongest Leave voting seats and the LDs will equally be hoping to take the strongest Remain voting seats

    Will it be that symmetrical? I wonder. Apart from on BBC news broadcasts I haven't really picked up the feeling that people in the North are that fussed about Brexit. While my little home counties town supplied quite a contingent to the People's Vote march.
    The North certainly doesn't seem fussed about going on a People's Vote march that much is true.
    Well they aren't marching at all are they. My point was that maybe Brexiters aren't as motivated as all that compared to leavers, so HYFUD may find that Brexit loses the Tories support in their normally strong areas without as much compensation in places that don't generally back them.
    Yes you can certainly make a case that remainers are more fired up - if there were 1m people motivated enough to turn up for a demo then perhaps 5 times that number are motivated enough to vote tactically? 5 million is a lot of votes, enough to swing many constituencies.

    Twill be an interesting election....
    A very large % will be non Tories anyway
    They are now.
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780
    AndyJS said:

    Very sad about Heidi Allen but not that much of a surprise given her increasingly erratic behaviour. Presumably the previous LD PPC who had to be nobbled will come back. I thought she had real raw talent but perhaps it was just potential. Very sad.

    What was the erratic behaviour?
    Membership of 5 different political parties in the space of 1 year.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    1. Get Home in the Dark.

    2. Latchkey Self into House.

    3. Oh Feck, yet another LibDem Leaflet with Swinson's Gurning Face on the Door Mat.

    4. Recycling Bin.

    Is it a Personal Campaign of Harassment by the LibDems to Send YBarddCwsc over the Edge?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    TudorRose said:

    Brom said:

    HYUFD said:

    The Tories should be hoping to take all the strongest Leave voting seats and the LDs will equally be hoping to take the strongest Remain voting seats

    Will it be that symmetrical? I wonder. Apart from on BBC news broadcasts I haven't really picked up the feeling that people in the North are that fussed about Brexit. While my little home counties town supplied quite a contingent to the People's Vote march.
    The North certainly doesn't seem fussed about going on a People's Vote march that much is true.
    Well they aren't marching at all are they. My point was that maybe Brexiters aren't as motivated as all that compared to leavers, so HYFUD may find that Brexit loses the Tories support in their normally strong areas without as much compensation in places that don't generally back them.
    +1 The other interesting angle is where do the Tories get the foot soldiers to canvass target seats? For instance will Tories from Macclesfield or Congleton travel to Stoke onTrent North or Central to canvass an inner city area of deprivation which has seen a decade of deprivation under the Tories? I dont think so! Especially in the dark...
    Isn't a lot of canvassing done by phone now?
    No. The vast majority are ex-directory.
    You can get mobile numbers, but these are even more unreliable. In B&R the LibDems had the problem of far more volunteers for phone canvassing than reliable phone numbers to call.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Looks like all the amendments were pretty hollow. The opposition parties don't actually want to endanger the election by pressing them.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    1. Get Home in the Dark.

    2. Latchkey Self into House.

    3. Oh Feck, yet another LibDem Leaflet with Swinson's Gurning Face on the Door Mat.

    4. Recycling Bin.

    Is it a Personal Campaign of Harassment by the LibDems to Send YBarddCwsc over the Edge?

    Sounds like another winning here to me? Indeed maybe already won.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,288
    TOPPING said:

    The 'strongest leave voting seats' do have some pretty entrenched and well known labour figures - eg Yvette Cooper....surely she would be safe.

    I need to find that interview with some bloke on R5 who said that 13 of the 26 Labour "northern leave seats" will remain Labour while Cons might lose its 13 Scots seats leaving it a wash.
    Any support for a hunch that at least one of the Tory gains from Labour last time out will revert, because the seats are more BXP friendly and BXP19 will outpoll UKIP 17?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,806
    Mr. JS, I agree entirely. Three minutes of Caroline Lucas speaking is a period of excessive longevity.

    Anyway, I must be off. Have fun, psephologists.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    edited October 2019
    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    The Tories should be hoping to take all the strongest Leave voting seats and the LDs will equally be hoping to take the strongest Remain voting seats

    Will it be that symmetrical? I wonder. Apart from on BBC news broadcasts I haven't really picked up the feeling that people in the North are that fussed about Brexit. While my little home counties town supplied quite a contingent to the People's Vote march.
    First law of politics is that people opposed to anything are always the most exercised.
    The first law of politics is that politics has an awful lot of first laws.
    Nah, the first law of politics is, ‘count.’

    Apart from anything else, if you can’t count you won’t know how many other first laws of politics there are.
    One has to establish a whole mathematical framework before one can count.
    I think counting was around before the concept of an axiomatic system to explain it and the point of an axiomatic system is that you accept the axioms and thus avoid the need for a framework.
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,591
    TudorRose said:

    Brom said:

    HYUFD said:

    The Tories should be hoping to take all the strongest Leave voting seats and the LDs will equally be hoping to take the strongest Remain voting seats

    Will it be that symmetrical? I wonder. Apart from on BBC news broadcasts I haven't really picked up the feeling that people in the North are that fussed about Brexit. While my little home counties town supplied quite a contingent to the People's Vote march.
    The North certainly doesn't seem fussed about going on a People's Vote march that much is true.
    Well they aren't marching at all are they. My point was that maybe Brexiters aren't as motivated as all that compared to leavers, so HYFUD may find that Brexit loses the Tories support in their normally strong areas without as much compensation in places that don't generally back them.
    +1 The other interesting angle is where do the Tories get the foot soldiers to canvass target seats? For instance will Tories from Macclesfield or Congleton travel to Stoke onTrent North or Central to canvass an inner city area of deprivation which has seen a decade of deprivation under the Tories? I dont think so! Especially in the dark...
    Isn't a lot of canvassing done by phone now?
    We try but getting hold of phone nos is not easy - you can buy databases for those whose numbers are public but they are often inaccurate and many people do not allow their numbers to appear. Also many people do not answer calls from numbers they don't know.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,605
    I have done a correlation check for each constituency between Party vote share and various demographics.

    The Leave share is not highly correlated with party share except for UKIP and Green

    Con +23% (max 100%)
    Lab -5%
    LD -21%
    UKIP +85%
    Green -45%

    Other demographics are much more important.

    For Con: % single households -63%!, % house ownership +52%, % over 65 +40%, % student -35%, population density -31% i.e being rural rather than urban is a greater predictor of Tory vote than Leave/Remain which is +23%. % single households is the biggest predictor.

    For Lab: % single households +74%, % house ownership -59%, % over 65 -59%, population density +53%, % white -48%, % student +35%, % leave -5%

    For LD: % single households -36%, % degree +24%, % leave -21%

    I think we overemphasise the leave/remain share in determining party shares. % single households are much more important.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424
    edited October 2019

    Brom said:

    HYUFD said:

    The Tories should be hoping to take all the strongest Leave voting seats and the LDs will equally be hoping to take the strongest Remain voting seats

    Will it be that symmetrical? I wonder. Apart from on BBC news broadcasts I haven't really picked up the feeling that people in the North are that fussed about Brexit. While my little home counties town supplied quite a contingent to the People's Vote march.
    The North certainly doesn't seem fussed about going on a People's Vote march that much is true.
    Well they aren't marching at all are they. My point was that maybe Brexiters aren't as motivated as all that compared to leavers, so HYFUD may find that Brexit loses the Tories support in their normally strong areas without as much compensation in places that don't generally back them.
    Yes you can certainly make a case that remainers are more fired up - if there were 1m people motivated enough to turn up for a demo then perhaps 5 times that number are motivated enough to vote tactically? 5 million is a lot of votes, enough to swing many constituencies.

    Twill be an interesting election....
    Yes. I didn't get this first hand I'm afraid, but I have heard that the Lib Dems fancy their chances in Guildford. There aren't huge numbers of seats like Guildford of course, but even so the Tories can't really afford to go backwards.
    That depends. For example, I cannot see the Tories having a swing large enough to take Normanton even though they’ve had some impressive swings there in the past.

    However, I can imagine (although it is not likely) a Brexit party candidate splitting the Labour vote far enough for a modest swing to the Tories to take it though the middle.

    What people are forgetting is that in the Midlands and a North Brexit Party voters are not ex Tories, they are ex Labour. They are extremely valuable to the Tories there for just that reason. You can easily imagine Stoke Central, Bolsover, Normanton, Durham North West and Bishop Auckland suddenly being vulnerable if there is a split vote. That is how they might be, in the good Mr Owls’ phrase, the Tories’ Little Helpers.

    And at the same time, Labour cannot tack to keep these voters becuase if they do they haemorrhage votes to the Liberal Democrats in the south and the university seats.

    Corbyn has whistled up a wind. Will Labour be flattened by it?
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679

    ydoethur said:

    Brom said:

    HYUFD said:

    The Tories should be hoping to take all the strongest Leave voting seats and the LDs will equally be hoping to take the strongest Remain voting seats

    Will it be that symmetrical? I wonder. Apart from on BBC news broadcasts I haven't really picked up the feeling that people in the North are that fussed about Brexit. While my little home counties town supplied quite a contingent to the People's Vote march.
    .
    Well they aren't marching at all are they. My point was that maybe Brexiters aren't as motivated as all that compared to leavers, so HYFUD may find that Brexit loses the Tories support in their normally strong areas without as much compensation in places that don't generally back them.
    +1 The other interesting angle is where do the Tories get the foot soldiers to canvass target seats? For instance will Tories from Macclesfield or Congleton travel to Stoke onTrent North or Central to canvass an inner city area of deprivation which has seen a decade of deprivation under the Tories? I dont think so! Especially in the dark...
    The point about Stoke on Trent is that it has suffered forty years of austerity under governments of three different parties (four if the DUP are included). Indeed, the worst ravages came in around 2003-2005 with the closure of three of the remaining four factories - under a Labour government.

    It is not, therefore, a happy stamping ground for any political party. It is a happy hunting ground for a Brexit referendum vote, because it was an easy way of sticking two fingers up at politicians.
    I lived in SOT for 3/4 years. I doubt the Tories will win there and seriously question where the footsoldiers will come from to canvass it. Labour have a machine in those seats. It may not be as robust as it once demonstrated but i am very sceptical about the viability of seats like that as Tory gains, particularly in December...
    I visited Stoke in the eighties, when it wasn't especially prosperous and then again a few months ago. I can completely understand why people there are pissed off with Labour. I don't think I'd vote Tory there though.
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979
    TudorRose said:

    Brom said:

    HYUFD said:

    The Tories should be hoping to take all the strongest Leave voting seats and the LDs will equally be hoping to take the strongest Remain voting seats

    Will it be that symmetrical? I wonder. Apart from on BBC news broadcasts I haven't really picked up the feeling that people in the North are that fussed about Brexit. While my little home counties town supplied quite a contingent to the People's Vote march.
    The North certainly doesn't seem fussed about going on a People's Vote march that much is true.
    Well they aren't marching at all are they. My point was that maybe Brexiters aren't as motivated as all that compared to leavers, so HYFUD may find that Brexit loses the Tories support in their normally strong areas without as much compensation in places that don't generally back them.
    +1 The other interesting angle is where do the Tories get the foot soldiers to canvass target seats? For instance will Tories from Macclesfield or Congleton travel to Stoke onTrent North or Central to canvass an inner city area of deprivation which has seen a decade of deprivation under the Tories? I dont think so! Especially in the dark...
    Isn't a lot of canvassing done by phone now?
    Not everybody has a landline or give out a Mobile! How does a political party get contact info unless they canvass? I dont think you get phone numbers from the electoral roll. Certainly, when i worked at HQ, this was not the case.This December election is fine in principle but the merits of it fall apart on inspection imo.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,771
    Another headline change at D Mail website.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,491

    AndyJS said:

    Very sad about Heidi Allen but not that much of a surprise given her increasingly erratic behaviour. Presumably the previous LD PPC who had to be nobbled will come back. I thought she had real raw talent but perhaps it was just potential. Very sad.

    What was the erratic behaviour?
    Membership of 5 different political parties in the space of 1 year.
    She’d only been in politics for about four years anyway and wasn’t really sure who she was.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163

    ydoethur said:

    Brom said:

    HYUFD said:

    The Tories should be hoping to take all the strongest Leave voting seats and the LDs will equally be hoping to take the strongest Remain voting seats

    Will it be that symmetrical? I wonder. Apart from on BBC news broadcasts I haven't really picked up the feeling that people in the North are that fussed about Brexit. While my little home counties town supplied quite a contingent to the People's Vote march.
    The North certainly doesn't seem fussed about going on a People's Vote march that much is true.
    Well they aren't marching at all are they. My point was that maybe Brexiters aren't as motivated as all that compared to leavers, so HYFUD may find that Brexit loses the Tories support in their normally strong areas without as much compensation in places that don't generally back them.
    +1 The other interesting angle is where do the Tories get the foot soldiers to canvass target seats? For instance will Tories from Macclesfield or Congleton travel to Stoke onTrent North or Central to canvass an inner city area of deprivation which has seen a decade of deprivation under the Tories? I dont think so! Especially in the dark...
    The point about Stoke on Trent is that it has suffered forty years of austerity under governments of three different parties (four if the DUP are included). Indeed, the worst ravages came in around 2003-2005 with the closure of three of the remaining four factories - under a Labour government.

    It is not, therefore, a happy stamping ground for any political party. It is a happy hunting ground for a Brexit referendum vote, because it was an easy way of sticking two fingers up at politicians.
    I lived in SOT for 3/4 years. I doubt the Tories will win there and seriously question where the footsoldiers will come from to canvass it. Labour have a machine in those seats. It may not be as robust as it once demonstrated but i am very sceptical about the viability of seats like that as Tory gains, particularly in December...
    SoT - the local joke is that the best thing about SoT is the road out of it. Ironically that was the A50 for a long time....
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    IanB2 said:

    1. Get Home in the Dark.

    2. Latchkey Self into House.

    3. Oh Feck, yet another LibDem Leaflet with Swinson's Gurning Face on the Door Mat.

    4. Recycling Bin.

    Is it a Personal Campaign of Harassment by the LibDems to Send YBarddCwsc over the Edge?

    Sounds like another winning here to me? Indeed maybe already won.
    There must be a use for these LibDem leaflets.

    They are not quite soft and absorbent enough for the use I have in mind.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424

    ydoethur said:

    Brom said:

    HYUFD said:

    The Tories should be hoping to take all the strongest Leave voting seats and the LDs will equally be hoping to take the strongest Remain voting seats

    Will it be that symmetrical? I wonder. Apart from on BBC news broadcasts I haven't really picked up the feeling that people in the North are that fussed about Brexit. While my little home counties town supplied quite a contingent to the People's Vote march.
    The North certainly doesn't seem fussed about going on a People's Vote march that much is true.
    Well they aren't marching at all are they. My point was that maybe Brexiters aren't as motivated as all that compared to leavers, so HYFUD may find that Brexit loses the Tories support in their normally strong areas without as much compensation in places that don't generally back them.
    +1 The other interesting angle is where do the Tories get the foot soldiers to canvass target seats? For instance will Tories from Macclesfield or Congleton travel to Stoke onTrent North or Central to canvass an inner city area of deprivation which has seen a decade of deprivation under the Tories? I dont think so! Especially in the dark...
    The point about Stoke on Trent is that it has suffered forty years of austerity under governments of three different parties (four if the DUP are included). Indeed, the worst ravages came in around 2003-2005 with the closure of three of the remaining four factories - under a Labour government.

    It is not, therefore, a happy stamping ground for any political party. It is a happy hunting ground for a Brexit referendum vote, because it was an easy way of sticking two fingers up at politicians.
    I lived in SOT for 3/4 years. I doubt the Tories will win there and seriously question where the footsoldiers will come from to canvass it. Labour have a machine in those seats. It may not be as robust as it once demonstrated but i am very sceptical about the viability of seats like that as Tory gains, particularly in December...
    I’ve never lived there, but in case you have forgotten, they Already HAVE won a seat there:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoke-on-Trent_South_(UK_Parliament_constituency)
  • PaulMPaulM Posts: 613
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    AndyJS said:

    Not very fair that Anne Main spoke for 35 minutes and Caroline Lucas gets 3 minutes for her speech.

    To be fair, that's the last speech in the House of Commons that Anne Main is likely to make.
    Why are people so confidently predicting that? Her majority was slashed last time but she still has a massive majority. If Tories are losing seats with such a big majority it seems unlikely they will hold a majority overall.
    She doesn't have a massive majority, she has a 6,000 vote one.

    On my four part model:

    1. UNS?

    LD by a big margin.

    2. Remainy?

    Yes very.

    3. Local elections?

    LDs did extremely well this year.

    4. Squeezability?

    Lots of Lab votes to go LD

    rcs1000 says "one of about a dozen LD gains this year"
    The squeezability is an interesting one. Last time the Labour candidate was the former MP Kerry Pollard, so it mitigated the "only the LIbDems can beat the Tories here" message somewhat, although Daisy Cooper and the LibDem leadership worked really hard to win the seat last time.

    I still feel that the national polls are key though - the LibDems have a better chance of winning St Albans if its clear that the LibDems won't be helping to put Jeremy Corbyn in Downing St. Anne Main isn't popular, especially after the expenses business, but fear of Corbyn helps her a lot.

  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    Was up in the air. Is it still on? :D
  • Brom said:

    HYUFD said:

    The Tories should be hoping to take all the strongest Leave voting seats and the LDs will equally be hoping to take the strongest Remain voting seats

    Will it be that symmetrical? I wonder. Apart from on BBC news broadcasts I haven't really picked up the feeling that people in the North are that fussed about Brexit. While my little home counties town supplied quite a contingent to the People's Vote march.
    The North certainly doesn't seem fussed about going on a People's Vote march that much is true.
    Well they aren't marching at all are they. My point was that maybe Brexiters aren't as motivated as all that compared to leavers, so HYFUD may find that Brexit loses the Tories support in their normally strong areas without as much compensation in places that don't generally back them.
    Yes you can certainly make a case that remainers are more fired up - if there were 1m people motivated enough to turn up for a demo then perhaps 5 times that number are motivated enough to vote tactically? 5 million is a lot of votes, enough to swing many constituencies.

    Twill be an interesting election....
    Yes. I didn't get this first hand I'm afraid, but I have heard that the Lib Dems fancy their chances in Guildford. There aren't huge numbers of seats like Guildford of course, but even so the Tories can't really afford to go backwards.
    LDs have won Guildford before and it's pretty Remainy.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,811

    1. Get Home in the Dark.

    2. Latchkey Self into House.

    3. Oh Feck, yet another LibDem Leaflet with Swinson's Gurning Face on the Door Mat.

    4. Recycling Bin.

    Is it a Personal Campaign of Harassment by the LibDems to Send YBarddCwsc over the Edge?

    I told you, they never let you go.

    If it is any consolation I got one today as well in post, in addition to a local leaflet, although the latter was not such a surprise as I had given them to the deliverer in the first place a couple of days ago.
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,005
    rcs1000 said:

    Stocky said:

    Andy_Cooke says:

    "Should children be allowed to get married?
    Or have sex?
    Or drive cars and motorbikes?
    Should the police be allowed to interrogate children without an adult present?
    Change their name by deed poll?
    Fly planes and helicopters?"


    Should children be allowed to get married? NO
    Or have sex? IF OVER 16 AND THEY CHOOSE TO
    Or drive cars and motorbikes? NO
    Should the police be allowed to interrogate children without an adult present? NO
    Change their name by deed poll? NO
    Fly planes and helicopters?" NO

    And....

    Be able to vote in a GE? NO

    Surely regarding children, sex and voting should be treated similarly.

    It should be theoretically illegal but unless there's influence from an adult, and the people are nearly of age, then it's largely ignored and accepted.

    (And that Google Link requires permission to access...)
    Under-eighteens can vote, but only for a relatively new party under a close-in-age exemption?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,477
    Just been to see 'Official Secrets'. Tony Blair, what the &^%$£ did you think you were doing over Iraq. I know it's a while ago now, but.......
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited October 2019
    On the subject of 16 and 17 year olds, I would allow them to drink beer, wine and cider at pubs and restaurants without having to have an adult present with a meal as is the case at present, and bring it into line with most mainland European countries. And they should be allowed to vote at local elections IMO.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    TudorRose said:

    Brom said:

    HYUFD said:

    The Tories should be hoping to take all the strongest Leave voting seats and the LDs will equally be hoping to take the strongest Remain voting seats

    Will it be that symmetrical? I wonder. Apart from on BBC news broadcasts I haven't really picked up the feeling that people in the North are that fussed about Brexit. While my little home counties town supplied quite a contingent to the People's Vote march.
    The North certainly doesn't seem fussed about going on a People's Vote march that much is true.
    Well they aren't marching at all are they. My point was that maybe Brexiters aren't as motivated as all that compared to leavers, so HYFUD may find that Brexit loses the Tories support in their normally strong areas without as much compensation in places that don't generally back them.
    +1 The other interesting angle is where do the Tories get the foot soldiers to canvass target seats? For instance will Tories from Macclesfield or Congleton travel to Stoke onTrent North or Central to canvass an inner city area of deprivation which has seen a decade of deprivation under the Tories? I dont think so! Especially in the dark...
    Isn't a lot of canvassing done by phone now?
    Not everybody has a landline or give out a Mobile! How does a political party get contact info unless they canvass? I dont think you get phone numbers from the electoral roll. Certainly, when i worked at HQ, this was not the case.This December election is fine in principle but the merits of it fall apart on inspection imo.
    There are companies that market telephone number databases (building upon the public directory) and parties can buy them in. Local parties can collect phone numbers in various ways, from casework, campaigning, petitions etc., and use these for electioneering provided the appropriate small print was included when the numbers were collected.

    Email campaigning is also becoming more important.
  • timmotimmo Posts: 1,469

    Brom said:

    HYUFD said:

    The Tories should be hoping to take all the strongest Leave voting seats and the LDs will equally be hoping to take the strongest Remain voting seats

    Will it be that symmetrical? I wonder. Apart from on BBC news broadcasts I haven't really picked up the feeling that people in the North are that fussed about Brexit. While my little home counties town supplied quite a contingent to the People's Vote march.
    The North certainly doesn't seem fussed about going on a People's Vote march that much is true.
    Well they aren't marching at all are they. My point was that maybe Brexiters aren't as motivated as all that compared to leavers, so HYFUD may find that Brexit loses the Tories support in their normally strong areas without as much compensation in places that don't generally back them.
    Yes you can certainly make a case that remainers are more fired up - if there were 1m people motivated enough to turn up for a demo then perhaps 5 times that number are motivated enough to vote tactically? 5 million is a lot of votes, enough to swing many constituencies.

    Twill be an interesting election....
    Yes. I didn't get this first hand I'm afraid, but I have heard that the Lib Dems fancy their chances in Guildford. There aren't huge numbers of seats like Guildford of course, but even so the Tories can't really afford to go backwards.
    LDs have won Guildford before and it's pretty Remainy.
    LDs will.win Guildford
  • Just been to see 'Official Secrets'. Tony Blair, what the &^%$£ did you think you were doing over Iraq. I know it's a while ago now, but.......

    Simples. Brownnosing Bush - an unnecessary and disastrous tendency.
  • rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    AndyJS said:

    Not very fair that Anne Main spoke for 35 minutes and Caroline Lucas gets 3 minutes for her speech.

    To be fair, that's the last speech in the House of Commons that Anne Main is likely to make.
    Why are people so confidently predicting that? Her majority was slashed last time but she still has a massive majority. If Tories are losing seats with such a big majority it seems unlikely they will hold a majority overall.
    She doesn't have a massive majority, she has a 6,000 vote one.

    On my four part model:

    1. UNS?

    LD by a big margin.

    2. Remainy?

    Yes very.

    3. Local elections?

    LDs did extremely well this year.

    4. Squeezability?

    Lots of Lab votes to go LD

    rcs1000 says "one of about a dozen LD gains this year"
    Any majority over 5000 and over 10% in normal times is fairly massive, especially when a party is forecast to be gaining not losing seats! 6000 votes and 10.7% majority is pretty massive in my eyes especially given this is a general election not a by election.

    Is UNS really showing LDs taking 10.7% majorities by a big margin?
    Of course. The LD vote share is up from 7% to 19%, and the Tories are down from 44% to 37%. If you add 12 point to the LD vote share and take seven from the Conservatives, then it's a LD gain.
    So the par line then is a 19% Tory majority over the LDs?
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163

    Another headline change at D Mail website.

    Does anyone still read that?
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,811
    rcs1000 said:

    Stocky said:

    Andy_Cooke says:

    "Should children be allowed to get married?
    Or have sex?
    Or drive cars and motorbikes?
    Should the police be allowed to interrogate children without an adult present?
    Change their name by deed poll?
    Fly planes and helicopters?"


    Should children be allowed to get married? NO
    Or have sex? IF OVER 16 AND THEY CHOOSE TO
    Or drive cars and motorbikes? NO
    Should the police be allowed to interrogate children without an adult present? NO
    Change their name by deed poll? NO
    Fly planes and helicopters?" NO

    And....

    Be able to vote in a GE? NO

    Surely regarding children, sex and voting should be treated similarly.

    It should be theoretically illegal but unless there's influence from an adult, and the people are nearly of age, then it's largely ignored and accepted.

    (And that Google Link requires permission to access...)
    Not sure you should treat sex and voting similarly. I'm having some disturbing thoughts.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    Another headline change at D Mail website.

    Does anyone still read that?
    What a ridiculous question.


    How else would he know? :)
This discussion has been closed.