I never thought they were going to be let back into the party anyway. BJ and his fanatics are trying to reshape the Tories into UKIP or TBP. They will select ERG types to replace those MPs that have had the whip withdrawn. Indeed, if an electoral pact with TBP is in the pipeline, it is not beyond possibility that Farage, Tice and Co. are gifted the seats. The Tories are not a one nation party anymore and that phrase is persistently used to describe politicians who do not share the values of those associated with one nation politics.
The Europhile Headbangers are the ones who have destabilised the Onservative Party.
With them gone, we can settle down to a period of finding something else to fall out about.
The Onservative Party for onanists and monomaniacs?
The dog needed a crap before I could edit. He bites my leg when his need is REALLY urgent, so I tend to react!
It’s sad to see a decent man rejoining a party that is run by narrow-minded nationalists and led by a mendacious moron.
Anyone who supports Boris is an apologist for his racism.
Does that make everyone who supports Corbyn an anti-Semite? Can you not see how ridiculous this is?
Of course not - but it does require them to overlook, or elide, or otherwise ignore the strain of antisemitism in the party that he evidently tolerates.
In the same way, going in to spin for Boris requires a certain wilful blindness to his glaring mendacity and equally evident fondness for the language of the late imperial period towards its colonial subjects.
As you may have gathered from my other comment I am far from an unqualified fan of Boris but I find this form of arguing specious. I want to leave. Boris wants to leave. Boris wants to shag the other half of London. Do I?
The idea that you agree with anyone on everything is completely for the birds. And just because I want some of the same things as others does not make me an apologist for their other views or actions. Its simply absurd.
The character of the leader isn’t just about him, but determines much about a party and its policies. I wasn’t even arguing that Johnson is an out and out racist (or for that matter Corbyn), but pointing out their respective behaviour which suggests that as a distinct possibility. Nor was I claiming that you agree with all his doings, or are even an apologist for them. That supporting him requires some sort of wilful blindness towards those things is, however, undeniable.
I never thought they were going to be let back into the party anyway. BJ and his fanatics are trying to reshape the Tories into UKIP or TBP. They will select ERG types to replace those MPs that have had the whip withdrawn. Indeed, if an electoral pact with TBP is in the pipeline, it is not beyond possibility that Farage, Tice and Co. are gifted the seats. The Tories are not a one nation party anymore and that phrase is persistently used to describe politicians who do not share the values of those associated with one nation politics.
The Europhile Headbangers are the ones who have destabilised the Onservative Party.
With them gone, we can settle down to a period of finding something else to fall out about.
The Onservative Party for onanists and monomaniacs?
The dog needed a crap before I could edit. He bites my leg when his need is REALLY urgent, so I tend to react!
Kay Burley promoting her early morning show on Sky
'The only show from the heart of Westminster'
And that sums up the metropolian elite in one promotion piece
Is it any wonder there is such anger outside the M25
I don't understand your point. Westminster is our political centre. Certainly MPs, Lords, journalists, presenters and others should not get myopically focused on it as if nothing else matters, but why wouldn't things orbit around it?
It's like London generally - I don't live there, and we shouldnt forget about or neglect the areas that are not in London, but it is the dominant settlement in these islands, so of course it gets more attention.
And your last sentence is at the heart of the reason so many feel left behind
Why should it get more attention than the rest of the country
Most of the resentment directed at London is born of thinly disguised jealousy.
More of it is pity.
The weird obsession you and others on PB have about London indicates otherwise. London is brought up far more frequently by those who live outside it than those of us who live in it.
Plenty of us were born outside London, worked and lived inside, have left it to work outside - and don't miss it one little bit.
Compared to the quality of life I now have, yes, I pity Londoners.
8 tonnes of cocaine a year. As much as the 3 largest consuming cities in Europe put together. It's literally mind blowing. No wonder there are so many remainers.
They found that the average daily amount of pure cocaine being consumed in London was 23kg - more than Europe's next three biggest cocaine-consuming cities combined; Barcelona (12.74kg), Amsterdam (4.62kg) and Berlin (4.62kg).
That seems like an enormous amount in Barcelona.
Though it will also depend on how they define each city - which would also explain why Paris and Madrid are lower.
8 tonnes of cocaine a year. As much as the 3 largest consuming cities in Europe put together. It's literally mind blowing. No wonder there are so many remainers.
And how many of them accept responsibility for the spate of drug-gang knife deaths their purchases fuel?
It’s sad to see a decent man rejoining a party that is run by narrow-minded nationalists and led by a mendacious moron.
Anyone who supports Boris is an apologist for his racism.
That is outrageous
Indeed for anyone to make that comment about me who has not a racist bone in my body is frankly out of order
If you support Boris, you personally, are an apologist for his racism. Sorry if that upsets you, but it's a choice you need to make. I've seen a lot of people point out on here that supporting Corbyn makes you an apologist for antisemitism. I don't see what the difference is.
How is Boris a racist?
Indeed. It's amazing how many people think that saying -
What is interesting is that it is the first time I have seen the quote in full (I am not a Johnson fan at all so have no need to try and defend him) and I can't see how that specific derogatory reference can be described as being a sarcastic/ironic attack on Blair. Certainly the following sentence is such but the use of the offensive term, if it is being ascribed to anyone other than Johnson himself, can only really be related to the Queen's attitude. And I am, pretty sure Johnson doesn't want to go down that road.
8 tonnes of cocaine a year. As much as the 3 largest consuming cities in Europe put together. It's literally mind blowing. No wonder there are so many remainers.
It’s sad to see a decent man rejoining a party that is run by narrow-minded nationalists and led by a mendacious moron.
Anyone who supports Boris is an apologist for his racism.
Does that make everyone who supports Corbyn an anti-Semite? Can you not see how ridiculous this is?
When I was having a wobble a few weeks ago and thinking of voting Labour for the first time in my life, I was told with vigour and authority that that's exactly what it would be. I'm over that wobble now, but I have noted that the same ones who assured me that voting Labour would be immoral for that reason, tend not to worry at all about Boris Johnson.
You can have it both or neither, but you can't pick and choose, cos Boris is as bad as Corbyn.
No he isn't. He's dishonest, unreliable, ill-disciplined, immoral in his personal dealings and untrustworthy but he's nowhere near as bad as Corbyn who is most of that list but also thick, economically incompetent and incontinent and a friend of any anti-western terrorist group you care to name.
Boris Johnson is the more immediate danger and has in his short period in power launched an assault on democracy. The ability of Leavers to shrug this off is frankly terrifying.
You're being hysterical again Alastair.
He sought to suspend democracy to impose a policy that no one had voted for, as a Prime Minister that no one had voted for leading a government without a majority.
Every word of that is sober fact. Give your head a wobble.
Parliament could have stopped the prorogation before it happened. It chose not to.
How? Parliament was in recess at the time and it was done within 2 hours of the news being leaked out.
Sad to see Big G back in the spin zone. Boris really doesn’t deserve it.
I am in the spin zone for a deal that stops no deal and respects the referendum
Sorry if that upsets you
And to you Big_G, I have read PB for years despite only posting recently.
You have in absolute fairness always maintained your belief in ensuring no No deal whilst respecting the result.
It was, as a viewer, quite a drama seeing you being driven away from the Tories - and a (sudden) decision I absolutely understood. However I am glad that you have felt comfortable enough to consider re-joining. BJ isn't everyone's cup-of-tea (evidently) but he is nothing compared to the danger of Corbyn and his entourage. We must never forget that.
Quite a few people who left the NSDAP in early July 1934 in the wake of 'The Night of the Long Knives' mysteriously decided to rejoin a few months later.
I hope everyone, and I mean everyone has a pleasant night
And just for the record while HYUFD and I are in the conservative party we disagree more than we agree as can be evidenced in our posts over the last 12 months
Sad to see Big G back in the spin zone. Boris really doesn’t deserve it.
I am in the spin zone for a deal that stops no deal and respects the referendum
Sorry if that upsets you
And to you Big_G, I have read PB for years despite only posting recently.
You have in absolute fairness always maintained your belief in ensuring no No deal whilst respecting the result.
It was, as a viewer, quite a drama seeing you being driven away from the Tories - and a (sudden) decision I absolutely understood. However I am glad that you have felt comfortable enough to consider re-joining. BJ isn't everyone's cup-of-tea (evidently) but he is nothing compared to the danger of Corbyn and his entourage. We must never forget that.
Quite a few people who left the NSDAP in early July 1934 in the wake of 'The Night of the Long Knives' mysteriously decided to rejoin a few months later.
When you're so obviously trolling for a reaction it is less effective, btw.
It's quite remarkable that the man who was Chancellor a few months ago is now persona non grata in the party. Has there ever been a similar case?
The defectors from both major parties who don't feel especially akin to the LibDems have a real problem - it'd be absurd for someone of Hammond's talent to just wander off the scene, but standing as an independent is probably doom. Perhaps a future PM will put him in the Lords.
Sad to see Big G back in the spin zone. Boris really doesn’t deserve it.
I am in the spin zone for a deal that stops no deal and respects the referendum
Sorry if that upsets you
And to you Big_G, I have read PB for years despite only posting recently.
You have in absolute fairness always maintained your belief in ensuring no No deal whilst respecting the result.
It was, as a viewer, quite a drama seeing you being driven away from the Tories - and a (sudden) decision I absolutely understood. However I am glad that you have felt comfortable enough to consider re-joining. BJ isn't everyone's cup-of-tea (evidently) but he is nothing compared to the danger of Corbyn and his entourage. We must never forget that.
Quite a few people who left the NSDAP in early July 1934 in the wake of 'The Night of the Long Knives' mysteriously decided to rejoin a few months later.
It’s sad to see a decent man rejoining a party that is run by narrow-minded nationalists and led by a mendacious moron.
Anyone who supports Boris is an apologist for his racism.
That is outrageous
Indeed for anyone to make that comment about me who has not a racist bone in my body is frankly out of order
If you support Boris, you personally, are an apologist for his racism. Sorry if that upsets you, but it's a choice you need to make. I've seen a lot of people point out on here that supporting Corbyn makes you an apologist for antisemitism. I don't see what the difference is.
How is Boris a racist?
Indeed. It's amazing how many people think that saying -
His statements here seem rather to be satirically suggesting that Blair was the one being racist - in the sense that he enjoyed playing the role of the colonial white male bringing enlightenment to sub-saharan Africa. The use of racist/archaic language is clearly heavily sarcastic. Rather in the vein of those today who criticise white celebrities for being filmed doing charity work in Africa.
Peter Oborne for all his faults lays into reporters like Laura K and others for effectively acting like mouthpieces for the government .
The explosion of so called no 10 sources since Cummings entered the picture is hardly just a coincidence.
These folk getting so riled by Cummings didn't have a similar problem when it was Campbell spoon-feeding the lobby....
On the contrary - the undesirability of non attributable briefings has been an issue as far back as my political memory goes.
Perhaps. But the people finding it undesirable may not overlap depending on the colour of Govt. in power - is my point.
I left the Labour part in the early noughties in part because of the toxic influence of no 10 sources such as Alastair Campbell, so have been fairly equal in my dislike.
Stupid politicians we can fairly blame on a stupid electorate, but giving so much power to unaccountable courtiers is a fundamental failure of our democracy.
Core urban areas attract skilled workers because they offer a wide range of specialised jobs for two-income families, whereas women earning a high wage wasn't on the agenda for almost any skilled families in the 70s. Most of the differences between London NY Paris or any other core city in the West, versus smaller cities, follow fairly clearly from this recent phenomenon rather than the hypotheses about creatives / nightlife that could apply to any town centre singleton areas with a few pubs. So you sort residents by willingness to supply skilled labour to the market for a generation, and you end up where we are.
It's quite remarkable that the man who was Chancellor a few months ago is now persona non grata in the party. Has there ever been a similar case?
The defectors from both major parties who don't feel especially akin to the LibDems have a real problem - it'd be absurd for someone of Hammond's talent to just wander off the scene, but standing as an independent is probably doom. Perhaps a future PM will put him in the Lords.
Wouldn’t be so had if we had PR, but party purity tests aren’t very democratic in a FPTP democracy. They are the death of pluralism.
Core urban areas attract skilled workers because they offer a wide range of specialised jobs for two-income families, whereas women earning a high wage wasn't on the agenda for almost any skilled families in the 70s. Most of the differences between London NY Paris or any other core city in the West, versus smaller cities, follow fairly clearly from this recent phenomenon rather than the hypotheses about creatives / nightlife that could apply to any town centre singleton areas with a few pubs. So you sort residents by willingness to supply skilled labour to the market for a generation, and you end up where we are.
Interesting that in the 70s and 80s young professionals were moving out of London to places like Milton Keynes, Swindon, Reading, etc, mainly because the capital was in a terrible state at that time.
It’s sad to see a decent man rejoining a party that is run by narrow-minded nationalists and led by a mendacious moron.
Anyone who supports Boris is an apologist for his racism.
That is outrageous
Indeed for anyone to make that comment about me who has not a racist bone in my body is frankly out of order
If you support Boris, you personally, are an apologist for his racism. Sorry if that upsets you, but it's a choice you need to make. I've seen a lot of people point out on here that supporting Corbyn makes you an apologist for antisemitism. I don't see what the difference is.
How is Boris a racist?
Indeed. It's amazing how many people think that saying -
His statements here seem rather to be satirically suggesting that Blair was the one being racist - in the sense that he enjoyed playing the role of the colonial white male bringing enlightenment to sub-saharan Africa. The use of racist/archaic language is clearly heavily sarcastic. Rather in the vein of those today who criticise white celebrities for being filmed doing charity work in Africa.
+1
That article is clearly parodying Blair's supposed views rather than mocking or attacking black people. The same can't be said of the newly reelected PM of Canada.
Where Boris can be criticized is his homophonic comments.
Core urban areas attract skilled workers because they offer a wide range of specialised jobs for two-income families, whereas women earning a high wage wasn't on the agenda for almost any skilled families in the 70s. Most of the differences between London NY Paris or any other core city in the West, versus smaller cities, follow fairly clearly from this recent phenomenon rather than the hypotheses about creatives / nightlife that could apply to any town centre singleton areas with a few pubs. So you sort residents by willingness to supply skilled labour to the market for a generation, and you end up where we are.
The Economist did a very prescient article on London in 2014
All the glories and resentments of Brexit encapsulated.
I was in The Smoke on Saturday, in the company of a great many like minded folk. It is a much cleaner, nicer, less dangerous place than the rundown place that I lived in in the early eighties. There are many poor folk there still, but overall there has been a massive redistribution of weather over the last decades in favour of London and the SE, as well as a number of other university towns.
It’s sad to see a decent man rejoining a party that is run by narrow-minded nationalists and led by a mendacious moron.
Anyone who supports Boris is an apologist for his racism.
That is outrageous
Indeed for anyone to make that comment about me who has not a racist bone in my body is frankly out of order
If you support Boris, you personally, are an apologist for his racism. Sorry if that upsets you, but it's a choice you need to make. I've seen a lot of people point out on here that supporting Corbyn makes you an apologist for antisemitism. I don't see what the difference is.
How is Boris a racist?
Indeed. It's amazing how many people think that saying -
His statements here seem rather to be satirically suggesting that Blair was the one being racist - in the sense that he enjoyed playing the role of the colonial white male bringing enlightenment to sub-saharan Africa. The use of racist/archaic language is clearly heavily sarcastic. Rather in the vein of those today who criticise white celebrities for being filmed doing charity work in Africa.
+1
That article is clearly parodying Blair's supposed views rather than mocking or attacking black people. The same can't be said of the newly reelected PM of Canada.
Where Boris can be criticized is his homophonic comments.
It's quite remarkable that the man who was Chancellor a few months ago is now persona non grata in the party. Has there ever been a similar case?
The defectors from both major parties who don't feel especially akin to the LibDems have a real problem - it'd be absurd for someone of Hammond's talent to just wander off the scene, but standing as an independent is probably doom. Perhaps a future PM will put him in the Lords.
What was David Owen's situation in the weeks and months before the Limehouse Declaration ? I suppose he still had the whip.
The thing with Hammond is that he is doing it at a time when vote counts are crucial. There were probably plenty Tories who couldn't abide Ted Heath, but since he wasn't in a position to do any damage given their majorities the persona non grata thing wouldn't have arisen in the same way.
It’s sad to see a decent man rejoining a party that is run by narrow-minded nationalists and led by a mendacious moron.
Anyone who supports Boris is an apologist for his racism.
That is outrageous
Indeed for anyone to make that comment about me who has not a racist bone in my body is frankly out of order
If you support Boris, you personally, are an apologist for his racism. Sorry if that upsets you, but it's a choice you need to make. I've seen a lot of people point out on here that supporting Corbyn makes you an apologist for antisemitism. I don't see what the difference is.
How is Boris a racist?
Indeed. It's amazing how many people think that saying -
His statements here seem rather to be satirically suggesting that Blair was the one being racist - in the sense that he enjoyed playing the role of the colonial white male bringing enlightenment to sub-saharan Africa. The use of racist/archaic language is clearly heavily sarcastic. Rather in the vein of those today who criticise white celebrities for being filmed doing charity work in Africa.
+1
That article is clearly parodying Blair's supposed views rather than mocking or attacking black people. The same can't be said of the newly reelected PM of Canada.
Where Boris can be criticized is his homophonic comments.
Though @Richard_Tyndall is right. The "flag waving piccanninies" is about the Queen, not Blair.
It is no more excusable than Corbyn's antisemitism.
Don't think there's going to be GE yet as they're all terrified of it. So the only course of action is to attempt to pass Boris's deal. If they get it though unamended then they will have GE in 2020. If the opposition puts in a customs union amendment then the bill will be pulled and we go to election. That's my opinion anyway....
Core urban areas attract skilled workers because they offer a wide range of specialised jobs for two-income families, whereas women earning a high wage wasn't on the agenda for almost any skilled families in the 70s. Most of the differences between London NY Paris or any other core city in the West, versus smaller cities, follow fairly clearly from this recent phenomenon rather than the hypotheses about creatives / nightlife that could apply to any town centre singleton areas with a few pubs. So you sort residents by willingness to supply skilled labour to the market for a generation, and you end up where we are.
Interesting that in the 70s and 80s young professionals were moving out of London to places like Milton Keynes, Swindon, Reading, etc, mainly because the capital was in a terrible state at that time.
I would guess young professionals still move out of London in vast numbers in their 30s, I wonder where to? Crime was higher then than today in these Western core cities. But in London back then specifically, there was also the residue of govt policy to shift good jobs out. Nowadays that leaves you with outcomes like the catastrophic decline of the ONS in Newport because what statistician is going to run the numbers and decide it's better to find a new job in Newport for their spouse versus a new job in a big city for themselves?
Don't think there's going to be GE yet as they're all terrified of it. So the only course of action is to attempt to pass Boris's deal. If they get it though unamended then they will have GE in 2020. If the opposition puts in a customs union amendment then the bill will be pulled and we go to election. That's my opinion anyway....
The Conservatives evidently aren't terrified of it because they've voted twice to have once in recent weeks.
Don't think there's going to be GE yet as they're all terrified of it. So the only course of action is to attempt to pass Boris's deal. If they get it though unamended then they will have GE in 2020. If the opposition puts in a customs union amendment then the bill will be pulled and we go to election. That's my opinion anyway....
The Conservatives evidently aren't terrified of it because they've voted twice to have once in recent weeks.
It is fairly safe to vote for something you know you will not get
Don't think there's going to be GE yet as they're all terrified of it. So the only course of action is to attempt to pass Boris's deal. If they get it though unamended then they will have GE in 2020. If the opposition puts in a customs union amendment then the bill will be pulled and we go to election. That's my opinion anyway....
Still think we get an extension until 31st January (announced on Friday) but makes clear this will be the final extension and the UK has got to sort itself out.
Then on Monday SNP will make clear they are ready to VONC the governement or support a one line bill calling for a general election.
At that point Labour's hands are effectively forced by the SNP and with much grumbling they'll cave in and agree to an election for 5th December.
Don't think there's going to be GE yet as they're all terrified of it. So the only course of action is to attempt to pass Boris's deal. If they get it though unamended then they will have GE in 2020. If the opposition puts in a customs union amendment then the bill will be pulled and we go to election. That's my opinion anyway....
Still think we get an extension until 31st January (announced on Friday) but makes clear this will be the final extension and the UK has got to sort itself out. ....
Wishful thinking... why would the EU do that? All such an ultimatum would do is box the EU in to an end point that might not be useful or desirable. Boris's "31st Oct" pledge is a good example of how it can go wrong.
Core urban areas attract skilled workers because they offer a wide range of specialised jobs for two-income families, whereas women earning a high wage wasn't on the agenda for almost any skilled families in the 70s. Most of the differences between London NY Paris or any other core city in the West, versus smaller cities, follow fairly clearly from this recent phenomenon rather than the hypotheses about creatives / nightlife that could apply to any town centre singleton areas with a few pubs. So you sort residents by willingness to supply skilled labour to the market for a generation, and you end up where we are.
Interesting that in the 70s and 80s young professionals were moving out of London to places like Milton Keynes, Swindon, Reading, etc, mainly because the capital was in a terrible state at that time.
I would guess young professionals still move out of London in vast numbers in their 30s, I wonder where to? Crime was higher then than today in these Western core cities. But in London back then specifically, there was also the residue of govt policy to shift good jobs out. Nowadays that leaves you with outcomes like the catastrophic decline of the ONS in Newport because what statistician is going to run the numbers and decide it's better to find a new job in Newport for their spouse versus a new job in a big city for themselves?
Many look to emigrate. House prices make it clear the UK is no place to have both a high flying career and a large family home. Unless you are in finance, you need to go elsewhere. Australia, Canada and the USA seem to be the main destinations for Brits, but foreign citizens tend to return to their own countries.
It’s sad to see a decent man rejoining a party that is run by narrow-minded nationalists and led by a mendacious moron.
Anyone who supports Boris is an apologist for his racism.
That is outrageous
Indeed for anyone to make that comment about me who has not a racist bone in my body is frankly out of order
If you support Boris, you personally, are an apologist for his racism. Sorry if that upsets you, but it's a choice you need to make. I've seen a lot of people point out on here that supporting Corbyn makes you an apologist for antisemitism. I don't see what the difference is.
How is Boris a racist?
Indeed. It's amazing how many people think that saying -
His statements here seem rather to be satirically suggesting that Blair was the one being racist - in the sense that he enjoyed playing the role of the colonial white male bringing enlightenment to sub-saharan Africa. The use of racist/archaic language is clearly heavily sarcastic. Rather in the vein of those today who criticise white celebrities for being filmed doing charity work in Africa.
+1
That article is clearly parodying Blair's supposed views rather than mocking or attacking black people. The same can't be said of the newly reelected PM of Canada.
Where Boris can be criticized is his homophonic comments.
Though @Richard_Tyndall is right. The "flag waving piccanninies" is about the Queen, not Blair.
It is no more excusable than Corbyn's antisemitism.
Did he attend the funerals of lynchers of black people? No? Then not really the same.
Don't think there's going to be GE yet as they're all terrified of it. So the only course of action is to attempt to pass Boris's deal. If they get it though unamended then they will have GE in 2020. If the opposition puts in a customs union amendment then the bill will be pulled and we go to election. That's my opinion anyway....
Still think we get an extension until 31st January (announced on Friday) but makes clear this will be the final extension and the UK has got to sort itself out. ....
Wishful thinking... why would the EU do that? All such an ultimatum would do is box the EU in to an end point that might not be useful or desirable. Boris's "31st Oct" pledge is a good example of how it can go wrong.
Because I think Macron has genuinely had enough and to get him to agree to this extension - which I suspect is actually much more on a knife edge than many in Parliament assume - they'll have to say something about it being the final one they'll grant (whether it would be or not is another matter)
"The world increasingly finds itself under protest. As 2019 enters its final quarter, there have been large and often violent demonstrations in Lebanon, Chile, Spain, Haiti, Iraq, Sudan, Russia, Egypt, Uganda, Indonesia, Ukraine, Peru, Hong Kong, Zimbabwe, Colombia, France, Turkey, Venezuela, the Netherlands, Ethiopia, Brazil, Malawi, Algeria and Ecuador, among other places."
What is the point of having a GE so close to the date of the presumed extension of 31/1/2020?
Even if there is a majority government there will still be no time to pass all the relevant legislation to enact the WA so another extension would be needed?
Surely the GE, if there is to be one, has to be as soon as possible, or the Govt should continue with trying to get the WAIB passed?
What is the point of having a GE so close to the date of the presumed extension of 31/1/2020?
Even if there is a majority government there will still be no time to pass all the relevant legislation to enact the WA so another extension would be needed?
Surely the GE, if there is to be one, has to be as soon as possible, or the Govt should continue with trying to get the WAIB passed?
Or am I missing something?
The fact that it is the Opposition who are preventing a GE?
What is the point of having a GE so close to the date of the presumed extension of 31/1/2020?
Even if there is a majority government there will still be no time to pass all the relevant legislation to enact the WA so another extension would be needed?
Surely the GE, if there is to be one, has to be as soon as possible, or the Govt should continue with trying to get the WAIB passed?
Or am I missing something?
If the election was held on 5th December Parliament would be back for at least a week before Christmas and three weeks after Christmas (their Christmas holiday could be curtailed if needs be)
That gives four weeks before and after Christmas which should be enough to get relevent legislation through.
If it's not quite enough time there is of course a world of difference between a technical extension for a couple of weeks to pass legislation and never ending extensions to kick the can...
Don't think there's going to be GE yet as they're all terrified of it. So the only course of action is to attempt to pass Boris's deal. If they get it though unamended then they will have GE in 2020. If the opposition puts in a customs union amendment then the bill will be pulled and we go to election. That's my opinion anyway....
Still think we get an extension until 31st January (announced on Friday) but makes clear this will be the final extension and the UK has got to sort itself out.
Then on Monday SNP will make clear they are ready to VONC the governement or support a one line bill calling for a general election.
At that point Labour's hands are effectively forced by the SNP and with much grumbling they'll cave in and agree to an election for 5th December.
I find your suggestion about the SNP supporting a vote that helps the Tories ironic given how in 1979 they did so again and produced 18 years of Tory government! However, I can see it suits the SNP to go to the polls for Westminster represention and as a springboard to an independence referndum or the next elections to the Scottish Parliament.
Fair point. I'm simply amazed they keep getting so close to a GE and then not doing it. But if second referendum is also apparently a no go now, and we aren't getting a 2019 GE, what the heck are they planning to do for the next 3 months when Boris still doesn't have a majority for his legislation, since if he did he'd pass it already?
I'm in complete agreement. I know the EU don't want to be seen to interfere, but really, they sort of have to.
An extension is pointless unless we do something with that time. Laying out all the options, that would be to: a) Renegotiate the WA again. b) Another referendum to find a way through. c) A General Election to find a way through. d) A change in leadership in the Conservative party to either a revoke position, or a No Deal position.
The current UK Parliament will not pass either TM's deal, or BJ's deal in my eyes. The EU, for all the thoughts on here that they know our procedures and forms very well, are making several mistakes. Tomorrow is the last day we could avoid a December election (Well, I suppose we could have a Friday 29th November election?).
I know people on here are all '5th December GE is FINE. No problems.' We're all political wonks. Come on, tell me truthfully. Put your hand up if you wouldn't mind a Thursday 26th December election..... *starts counting, including his own* That's not normal. That's weird.
The public do not want an GE in December, or campaigning over Christmas and New Year. If it isn't 28th November, I think the next available date is 6th February (shame it couldn't be the 2nd.... seems like it enough).
The EU should've replied yesterday (23rd). Either telling us to FRO, and almost force Labour to pass the WA or else we No Deal; or reply in the positive with 31st January and strongly hint to get that GE done.
In terms of the four options above: A) Seems highly unlikely AGAIN. Everyone must be mightly sick of this by now. 3 months, losing six weeks for Christmas, is not enough, so not possible. C) Needs to be done today (24th Oct). D) Is hilarious, but neither is happening.
I think we've missed the bus for a GE, as has the EU. An extension to January is now pointless. It will need to be to the end of February for a GE.
Core urban areas attract skilled workers because they offer a wide range of specialised jobs for two-income families, whereas women earning a high wage wasn't on the agenda for almost any skilled families in the 70s. Most of the differences between London NY Paris or any other core city in the West, versus smaller cities, follow fairly clearly from this recent phenomenon rather than the hypotheses about creatives / nightlife that could apply to any town centre singleton areas with a few pubs. So you sort residents by willingness to supply skilled labour to the market for a generation, and you end up where we are.
Interesting that in the 70s and 80s young professionals were moving out of London to places like Milton Keynes, Swindon, Reading, etc, mainly because the capital was in a terrible state at that time.
I would guess young professionals still move out of London in vast numbers in their 30s, I wonder where to? Crime was higher then than today in these Western core cities. But in London back then specifically, there was also the residue of govt policy to shift good jobs out. Nowadays that leaves you with outcomes like the catastrophic decline of the ONS in Newport because what statistician is going to run the numbers and decide it's better to find a new job in Newport for their spouse versus a new job in a big city for themselves?
Cities with cheaper house prices are seeing an influx e.g. Birmingham, Manchester, Leeds, Edinburgh.
There is an insane level of housebuilding going on, and more planned, right across the south of Edinburgh where there is plenty of land.
It's quite remarkable that the man who was Chancellor a few months ago is now persona non grata in the party. Has there ever been a similar case?
The defectors from both major parties who don't feel especially akin to the LibDems have a real problem - it'd be absurd for someone of Hammond's talent to just wander off the scene, but standing as an independent is probably doom. Perhaps a future PM will put him in the Lords.
It is a shame but Hammond decided that ultimately his loyalty lay with the EU rather than with the 17m+ UK citizens who voted to leave in 2016.
I could see the argument (and would have supported him) were it a principled stand against a ND, but he is clearly against the governments deal and if you can't rely on an individual to support their PM at a generational crunch point then they have no place being in that particular party.
And that is the crux of it; Hammond would be a much better fit for the LD's rather than the Tories who want to deliver on the referendum result.
"The world increasingly finds itself under protest. As 2019 enters its final quarter, there have been large and often violent demonstrations in Lebanon, Chile, Spain, Haiti, Iraq, Sudan, Russia, Egypt, Uganda, Indonesia, Ukraine, Peru, Hong Kong, Zimbabwe, Colombia, France, Turkey, Venezuela, the Netherlands, Ethiopia, Brazil, Malawi, Algeria and Ecuador, among other places."
The farmers protests in the Netherlands have been quite fun over the last few weeks. The police blocking the roads leading into Amsterdam and forgetting that the tractors can just go across the fields around them was particularly amusing.
Don't think there's going to be GE yet as they're all terrified of it. So the only course of action is to attempt to pass Boris's deal. If they get it though unamended then they will have GE in 2020. If the opposition puts in a customs union amendment then the bill will be pulled and we go to election. That's my opinion anyway....
Still think we get an extension until 31st January (announced on Friday) but makes clear this will be the final extension and the UK has got to sort itself out. ....
Wishful thinking... why would the EU do that? All such an ultimatum would do is box the EU in to an end point that might not be useful or desirable. Boris's "31st Oct" pledge is a good example of how it can go wrong.
Because I think Macron has genuinely had enough and to get him to agree to this extension - which I suspect is actually much more on a knife edge than many in Parliament assume - they'll have to say something about it being the final one they'll grant (whether it would be or not is another matter)
Has Macron actually said this in front of a camara or on radio. Sounds like it is a "sources" job to me, which might have been located this side of the channel...
Don't think there's going to be GE yet as they're all terrified of it. So the only course of action is to attempt to pass Boris's deal. If they get it though unamended then they will have GE in 2020. If the opposition puts in a customs union amendment then the bill will be pulled and we go to election. That's my opinion anyway....
Still think we get an extension until 31st January (announced on Friday) but makes clear this will be the final extension and the UK has got to sort itself out. ....
Wishful thinking... why would the EU do that? All such an ultimatum would do is box the EU in to an end point that might not be useful or desirable. Boris's "31st Oct" pledge is a good example of how it can go wrong.
Because I think Macron has genuinely had enough and to get him to agree to this extension - which I suspect is actually much more on a knife edge than many in Parliament assume - they'll have to say something about it being the final one they'll grant (whether it would be or not is another matter)
Has Macron actually said this in front of a camara or on radio. Sounds like it is a "sources" job to me, which might have been located this side of the channel...
Well Tusk wanted the extension signed off by the ambassadors meeting this afternoon but it's been pushed back to Friday.
Core urban areas attract skilled workers because they offer a wide range of specialised jobs for two-income families, whereas women earning a high wage wasn't on the agenda for almost any skilled families in the 70s. Most of the differences between London NY Paris or any other core city in the West, versus smaller cities, follow fairly clearly from this recent phenomenon rather than the hypotheses about creatives / nightlife that could apply to any town centre singleton areas with a few pubs. So you sort residents by willingness to supply skilled labour to the market for a generation, and you end up where we are.
Interesting that in the 70s and 80s young professionals were moving out of London to places like Milton Keynes, Swindon, Reading, etc, mainly because the capital was in a terrible state at that time.
I would guess young professionals still move out of London in vast numbers in their 30s, I wonder where to? Crime was higher then than today in these Western core cities. But in London back then specifically, there was also the residue of govt policy to shift good jobs out. Nowadays that leaves you with outcomes like the catastrophic decline of the ONS in Newport because what statistician is going to run the numbers and decide it's better to find a new job in Newport for their spouse versus a new job in a big city for themselves?
Many look to emigrate. House prices make it clear the UK is no place to have both a high flying career and a large family home. Unless you are in finance, you need to go elsewhere. Australia, Canada and the USA seem to be the main destinations for Brits, but foreign citizens tend to return to their own countries.
I would certainly guess the overseas people like French repatriate and buy a house with their savings. You pay dearly in the UK for the privilege of being near a jobs magnet and not working or devoting land use to housework or leisure - because unlike Toronto say London and Manchester are among the world's top ten most interesting and famous cities if you are a young person from literally anywhere - even after B****t.
What is the point of having a GE so close to the date of the presumed extension of 31/1/2020?
Even if there is a majority government there will still be no time to pass all the relevant legislation to enact the WA so another extension would be needed?
Surely the GE, if there is to be one, has to be as soon as possible, or the Govt should continue with trying to get the WAIB passed?
Or am I missing something?
The fact that it is the Opposition who are preventing a GE?
Of course, thanks. Have been busy today so have not been following every twist and turn.
It's quite remarkable that the man who was Chancellor a few months ago is now persona non grata in the party. Has there ever been a similar case?
The defectors from both major parties who don't feel especially akin to the LibDems have a real problem - it'd be absurd for someone of Hammond's talent to just wander off the scene, but standing as an independent is probably doom. Perhaps a future PM will put him in the Lords.
It is a shame but Hammond decided that ultimately his loyalty lay with the EU rather than with the 17m+ UK citizens who voted to leave in 2016.
I could see the argument (and would have supported him) were it a principled stand against a ND, but he is clearly against the governments deal and if you can't rely on an individual to support their PM at a generational crunch point then they have no place being in that particular party.
And that is the crux of it; Hammond would be a much better fit for the LD's rather than the Tories who want to deliver on the referendum result.
Hold on a minute, Hammond voted for the TM deal three times in generational crunch votes. The current arsehole in NO.10 voted against his party twice and members of the ERG, three times. The Tories have become an extremist cult whereby disagrement is treated as tretchery by the same people who orchestrated the intensification of events to the nadir we currently find ourselves...
What is the point of having a GE so close to the date of the presumed extension of 31/1/2020?
Even if there is a majority government there will still be no time to pass all the relevant legislation to enact the WA so another extension would be needed?
Surely the GE, if there is to be one, has to be as soon as possible, or the Govt should continue with trying to get the WAIB passed?
Or am I missing something?
If the election was held on 5th December Parliament would be back for at least a week before Christmas and three weeks after Christmas (their Christmas holiday could be curtailed if needs be)
That gives four weeks before and after Christmas which should be enough to get relevent legislation through.
If it's not quite enough time there is of course a world of difference between a technical extension for a couple of weeks to pass legislation and never ending extensions to kick the can...
Assuming the GE results in a government with a working majority willing to implement the WA, which is not - IMO - necessarily a safe assumption.
Core urban areas attract skilled workers because they offer a wide range of specialised jobs for two-income families, whereas women earning a high wage wasn't on the agenda for almost any skilled families in the 70s. Most of the differences between London NY Paris or any other core city in the West, versus smaller cities, follow fairly clearly from this recent phenomenon rather than the hypotheses about creatives / nightlife that could apply to any town centre singleton areas with a few pubs. So you sort residents by willingness to supply skilled labour to the market for a generation, and you end up where we are.
Interesting that in the 70s and 80s young professionals were moving out of London to places like Milton Keynes, Swindon, Reading, etc, mainly because the capital was in a terrible state at that time.
I would guess young professionals still move out of London in vast numbers in their 30s, I wonder where to? Crime was higher then than today in these Western core cities. But in London back then specifically, there was also the residue of govt policy to shift good jobs out. Nowadays that leaves you with outcomes like the catastrophic decline of the ONS in Newport because what statistician is going to run the numbers and decide it's better to find a new job in Newport for their spouse versus a new job in a big city for themselves?
Cities with cheaper house prices are seeing an influx e.g. Birmingham, Manchester, Leeds, Edinburgh.
There is an insane level of housebuilding going on, and more planned, right across the south of Edinburgh where there is plenty of land.
Best thing to do is work in London through your twenties and thirties, get on the property ladder, however small, then sell up and move north or to the midlands with your family and buy a house double the size for the same price
Sad to see Big G back in the spin zone. Boris really doesn’t deserve it.
I am in the spin zone for a deal that stops no deal and respects the referendum
Sorry if that upsets you
And to you Big_G, I have read PB for years despite only posting recently.
You have in absolute fairness always maintained your belief in ensuring no No deal whilst respecting the result.
It was, as a viewer, quite a drama seeing you being driven away from the Tories - and a (sudden) decision I absolutely understood. However I am glad that you have felt comfortable enough to consider re-joining. BJ isn't everyone's cup-of-tea (evidently) but he is nothing compared to the danger of Corbyn and his entourage. We must never forget that.
Quite a few people who left the NSDAP in early July 1934 in the wake of 'The Night of the Long Knives' mysteriously decided to rejoin a few months later.
You do like Nazi Germany analogies don't you? I must admit to being a bit of a Soviet Union fan myself. But in the spirit of my avatar, can we work in a NCR reference perhaps? Something something, Hoover Dam... something something Boone shoots Jeannie May Crawford.
Anyone who supports Boris is an apologist for his racism.
Does that make everyone who supports Corbyn an anti-Semite? Can you not see how ridiculous this is?
It said "apologist for his racism" not "racist". Which I think is fair.
Similarly, someone supporting Corbyn might be said to be an apologist for his anti-Semitism. Or someone voting for any of the MPs that voted in favour of the Iraq war would be an apologist for war crimes, rather than a war criminal.
The other massive change since the 1970s is that if you really want to specialise your city in manufacturing, you have to be better than the 776 million people available for same in China who tend to exhibit certain economies of scale, whereas in the 1970s they were still kind of killing each other and glorifying the rustication of intellectuals to peasant-worker task forces
Don't think there's going to be GE yet as they're all terrified of it. So the only course of action is to attempt to pass Boris's deal. If they get it though unamended then they will have GE in 2020. If the opposition puts in a customs union amendment then the bill will be pulled and we go to election. That's my opinion anyway....
Still think we get an extension until 31st January (announced on Friday) but makes clear this will be the final extension and the UK has got to sort itself out. ....
Wishful thinking... why would the EU do that? All such an ultimatum would do is box the EU in to an end point that might not be useful or desirable. Boris's "31st Oct" pledge is a good example of how it can go wrong.
Because I think Macron has genuinely had enough and to get him to agree to this extension - which I suspect is actually much more on a knife edge than many in Parliament assume - they'll have to say something about it being the final one they'll grant (whether it would be or not is another matter)
Has Macron actually said this in front of a camara or on radio. Sounds like it is a "sources" job to me, which might have been located this side of the channel...
Well Tusk wanted the extension signed off by the ambassadors meeting this afternoon but it's been pushed back to Friday.
They're clearly discussing something...
I dont think there is anything in it to be honest, especially given the Johnson two letters. They are just making us sweat....
It's quite remarkable that the man who was Chancellor a few months ago is now persona non grata in the party. Has there ever been a similar case?
The defectors from both major parties who don't feel especially akin to the LibDems have a real problem - it'd be absurd for someone of Hammond's talent to just wander off the scene, but standing as an independent is probably doom. Perhaps a future PM will put him in the Lords.
It is a shame but Hammond decided that ultimately his loyalty lay with the EU rather than with the 17m+ UK citizens who voted to leave in 2016.
I could see the argument (and would have supported him) were it a principled stand against a ND, but he is clearly against the governments deal and if you can't rely on an individual to support their PM at a generational crunch point then they have no place being in that particular party.
And that is the crux of it; Hammond would be a much better fit for the LD's rather than the Tories who want to deliver on the referendum result.
Hold on a minute, Hammond voted for the TM deal three times in generational crunch votes. The current arsehole in NO.10 voted against his party twice and members of the ERG, three times. The Tories have become an extremist cult whereby disagrement is treated as treachery by the same people who orchestrated the intensification of events to the nadir we currently find ourselves...
Hammond voted for the deal on Tuesday as well. Just not the programme.
Fair point. I'm simply amazed they keep getting so close to a GE and then not doing it. But if second referendum is also apparently a no go now, and we aren't getting a 2019 GE, what the heck are they planning to do for the next 3 months when Boris still doesn't have a majority for his legislation, since if he did he'd pass it already?
I'm in complete agreement. I know the EU don't want to be seen to interfere, but really, they sort of have to.
An extension is pointless unless we do something with that time. Laying out all the options, that would be to: a) Renegotiate the WA again. b) Another referendum to find a way through. c) A General Election to find a way through. d) A change in leadership in the Conservative party to either a revoke position, or a No Deal position.
The current UK Parliament will not pass either TM's deal, or BJ's deal in my eyes. The EU, for all the thoughts on here that they know our procedures and forms very well, are making several mistakes. Tomorrow is the last day we could avoid a December election (Well, I suppose we could have a Friday 29th November election?).
I know people on here are all '5th December GE is FINE. No problems.' We're all political wonks. Come on, tell me truthfully. Put your hand up if you wouldn't mind a Thursday 26th December election..... *starts counting, including his own* That's not normal. That's weird.
The public do not want an GE in December, or campaigning over Christmas and New Year. If it isn't 28th November, I think the next available date is 6th February (shame it couldn't be the 2nd.... seems like it enough).
The EU should've replied yesterday (23rd). Either telling us to FRO, and almost force Labour to pass the WA or else we No Deal; or reply in the positive with 31st January and strongly hint to get that GE done.
In terms of the four options above: A) Seems highly unlikely AGAIN. Everyone must be mightly sick of this by now. 3 months, losing six weeks for Christmas, is not enough, so not possible. C) Needs to be done today (24th Oct). D) Is hilarious, but neither is happening.
I think we've missed the bus for a GE, as has the EU. An extension to January is now pointless. It will need to be to the end of February for a GE.
Some in the EU are saying until 31st January, others - such as French "sources" - saying two weeks. As per the very first extension back in March, maybe there will be a fudge. Say, a month-long extension until 30th November. That way the EU doesn't think it looks like it's applying pressure, but it's also not letting the UK off with wasting more time. December's as good as lost to Christmas anyway.
Well Tusk wanted the extension signed off by the ambassadors meeting this afternoon but it's been pushed back to Friday.
They're clearly discussing something...
I take it back then. Tusk clearly knows the score. It was 23rd or bust for the extension for a GE. The rest don't understand British parliamentary procedure. Not surprising. The LOTO doesn't either.
Fair point. I'm simply amazed they keep getting so close to a GE and then not doing it. But if second referendum is also apparently a no go now, and we aren't getting a 2019 GE, what the heck are they planning to do for the next 3 months when Boris still doesn't have a majority for his legislation, since if he did he'd pass it already?
I'm in complete agreement. I know the EU don't want to be seen to interfere, but really, they sort of have to.
An extension is pointless unless we do something with that time. Laying out all the options, that would be to: a) Renegotiate the WA again. b) Another referendum to find a way through. c) A General Election to find a way through. d) A change in leadership in the Conservative party to either a revoke position, or a No Deal position.
The current UK Parliament will not pass either TM's deal, or BJ's deal in my eyes. The EU, for all the thoughts on here that they know our procedures and forms very well, are making several mistakes. Tomorrow is the last day we could avoid a December election (Well, I suppose we could have a Friday 29th November election?).
I know people on here are all '5th December GE is FINE. No problems.' We're all political wonks. Come on, tell me truthfully. Put your hand up if you wouldn't mind a Thursday 26th December election..... *starts counting, including his own* That's not normal. That's weird.
The public do not want an GE in December, or campaigning over Christmas and New Year. If it isn't 28th November, I think the next available date is 6th February (shame it couldn't be the 2nd.... seems like it enough).
The EU should've replied yesterday (23rd). Either telling us to FRO, and almost force Labour to pass the WA or else we No Deal; or reply in the positive with 31st January and strongly hint to get that GE done.
In terms of the four options above: A) Seems highly unlikely AGAIN. Everyone must be mightly sick of this by now. 3 months, losing six weeks for Christmas, is not enough, so not possible. C) Needs to be done today (24th Oct). D) Is hilarious, but neither is happening.
I think we've missed the bus for a GE, as has the EU. An extension to January is now pointless. It will need to be to the end of February for a GE.
Some in the EU are saying until 31st January, others - such as French "sources" - saying two weeks. As per the very first extension back in March, maybe there will be a fudge. Say, a month-long extension until 30th November. That way the EU doesn't think it looks like it's applying pressure, but it's also not letting the UK off with wasting more time. December's as good as lost to Christmas anyway.
They'll go with 31st January as any other day (under the Benn letter) requires Parliaments approval.
Some in the EU are saying until 31st January, others - such as French "sources" - saying two weeks. As per the very first extension back in March, maybe there will be a fudge. Say, a month-long extension until 30th November. That way the EU doesn't think it looks like it's applying pressure, but it's also not letting the UK off with wasting more time. December's as good as lost to Christmas anyway.
A month will either force the WA to pass, or see us crash with no deal. Macron would need to come out and very clearly say, "One month. I will personally veto any further requests to extend. I don't care what anyone else in the EU says, so to avoid that veto the EU need to throw the French Republic out of the EU."
Some in the EU are saying until 31st January, others - such as French "sources" - saying two weeks. As per the very first extension back in March, maybe there will be a fudge. Say, a month-long extension until 30th November. That way the EU doesn't think it looks like it's applying pressure, but it's also not letting the UK off with wasting more time. December's as good as lost to Christmas anyway.
A month long extension is literally Deal or No Deal.
If the wrecking amendments starting being attached and the government pull the bill what then?
Will parliament have the will to vote for R2 or revoke.
You would hope remainers would collectively have the sense to limit any amendments to uncontroversial periphery, and the government would have the sense to accept those amendments. Have a pretend row if needed for public consumption but don't derail the whole show.
Some in the EU are saying until 31st January, others - such as French "sources" - saying two weeks. As per the very first extension back in March, maybe there will be a fudge. Say, a month-long extension until 30th November. That way the EU doesn't think it looks like it's applying pressure, but it's also not letting the UK off with wasting more time. December's as good as lost to Christmas anyway.
A month will either force the WA to pass, or see us crash with no deal. Macron would need to come out and very clearly say, "One month. I will personally veto any further requests to extend. I don't care what anyone else in the EU says, so to avoid that veto the EU need to throw the French Republic out of the EU."
I think the French angle is a 'straw man' created by the British media to gain readers or viewers...
The other massive change since the 1970s is that if you really want to specialise your city in manufacturing, you have to be better than the 776 million people available for same in China who tend to exhibit certain economies of scale, whereas in the 1970s they were still kind of killing each other and glorifying the rustication of intellectuals to peasant-worker task forces
On the other hand China's working age population has been declining for a few years now, and their total population is probably going to start going down within 5 years.
The other massive change since the 1970s is that if you really want to specialise your city in manufacturing, you have to be better than the 776 million people available for same in China who tend to exhibit certain economies of scale, whereas in the 1970s they were still kind of killing each other and glorifying the rustication of intellectuals to peasant-worker task forces
On the other hand China's working age population has been declining for a few years now, and their total population is probably going to start going down within 5 years.
Core urban areas attract skilled workers because they offer a wide range of specialised jobs for two-income families, whereas women earning a high wage wasn't on the agenda for almost any skilled families in the 70s. Most of the differences between London NY Paris or any other core city in the West, versus smaller cities, follow fairly clearly from this recent phenomenon rather than the hypotheses about creatives / nightlife that could apply to any town centre singleton areas with a few pubs. So you sort residents by willingness to supply skilled labour to the market for a generation, and you end up where we are.
Interesting that in the 70s and 80s young professionals were moving out of London to places like Milton Keynes, Swindon, Reading, etc, mainly because the capital was in a terrible state at that time.
I would guess young professionals still move out of London in vast numbers in their 30s, I wonder where to? Crime was higher then than today in these Western core cities. But in London back then specifically, there was also the residue of govt policy to shift good jobs out. Nowadays that leaves you with outcomes like the catastrophic decline of the ONS in Newport because what statistician is going to run the numbers and decide it's better to find a new job in Newport for their spouse versus a new job in a big city for themselves?
Cities with cheaper house prices are seeing an influx e.g. Birmingham, Manchester, Leeds, Edinburgh.
There is an insane level of housebuilding going on, and more planned, right across the south of Edinburgh where there is plenty of land.
Best thing to do is work in London through your twenties and thirties, get on the property ladder, however small, then sell up and move north or to the midlands with your family and buy a house double the size for the same price
A number of my friends who have sold a property in Edinburgh in the last 3-4 years, sold to people leaving London with significant cash from selling up there. We were all selling the 'second time buyer' type properties e.g. 2 or 3 bed flats, small houses. Of course, the ex-Londoners thought they were getting a bargain.
I'm in complete agreement. I know the EU don't want to be seen to interfere, but really, they sort of have to.
Really, they don't have to do anything. They can just give the British as much time as they request to work through their issues. It's a minor irritant leaving it unresolved, but they've handled worse, and the consequences of trying to force something to happen are potentially very bad.
On another note, Owen Bennett (recently sacked by the Telegraph) is having some sort of real time breakdown on Twitter, so if you know anyone who knows him - might be time to intervene for his own sake.
You would hope remainers would collectively have the sense to limit any amendments to uncontroversial periphery, and the government would have the sense to accept those amendments.
It wouldn't really have to be collective, just enough to tip a few votes. There aren't going to be many wanting to risk no-deal at that stage.
On another note, Owen Bennett (recently sacked by the Telegraph) is having some sort of real time breakdown on Twitter, so if you know anyone who knows him - might be time to intervene for his own sake.
Sorry to hear that. He was on the BBC or Sky paper review only a few days ago IIRC.
It's quite remarkable that the man who was Chancellor a few months ago is now persona non grata in the party. Has there ever been a similar case?
The defectors from both major parties who don't feel especially akin to the LibDems have a real problem - it'd be absurd for someone of Hammond's talent to just wander off the scene, but standing as an independent is probably doom. Perhaps a future PM will put him in the Lords.
It is a shame but Hammond decided that ultimately his loyalty lay with the EU rather than with the 17m+ UK citizens who voted to leave in 2016.
I could see the argument (and would have supported him) were it a principled stand against a ND, but he is clearly against the governments deal and if you can't rely on an individual to support their PM at a generational crunch point then they have no place being in that particular party.
And that is the crux of it; Hammond would be a much better fit for the LD's rather than the Tories who want to deliver on the referendum result.
Hold on a minute, Hammond voted for the TM deal three times in generational crunch votes. The current arsehole in NO.10 voted against his party twice and members of the ERG, three times. The Tories have become an extremist cult whereby disagrement is treated as tretchery by the same people who orchestrated the intensification of events to the nadir we currently find ourselves...
He voted for the TM deal knowing full well it wouldnt pass..pretty easy to do in those circumstances
It's quite remarkable that the man who was Chancellor a few months ago is now persona non grata in the party. Has there ever been a similar case?
The defectors from both major parties who don't feel especially akin to the LibDems have a real problem - it'd be absurd for someone of Hammond's talent to just wander off the scene, but standing as an independent is probably doom. Perhaps a future PM will put him in the Lords.
It is a shame but Hammond decided that ultimately his loyalty lay with the EU rather than with the 17m+ UK citizens who voted to leave in 2016.
I could see the argument (and would have supported him) were it a principled stand against a ND, but he is clearly against the governments deal and if you can't rely on an individual to support their PM at a generational crunch point then they have no place being in that particular party.
And that is the crux of it; Hammond would be a much better fit for the LD's rather than the Tories who want to deliver on the referendum result.
Hold on a minute, Hammond voted for the TM deal three times in generational crunch votes. The current arsehole in NO.10 voted against his party twice and members of the ERG, three times. The Tories have become an extremist cult whereby disagrement is treated as tretchery by the same people who orchestrated the intensification of events to the nadir we currently find ourselves...
He voted for the TM deal knowing full well it wouldnt pass..pretty easy to do in those circumstances
Throw the witch in the river. If she drowns she’s innocent, if she floats she’s guilty and we burn her.
You are just exposing your own ignorance with comments like that. The Government lost ground in the election campaigns of 1959 - 1964 - 1966 - 1970 - both 1974 elections - 1987 - and certainly 2017. Very little change in 1955 or 2005. The polling data is available - should you wish to lower yourself to consult it. To be clear , I am asserting that on Polling Day incumbent Governments fare less well than implied by polls at the time the election was announced. To take the 1959 example - when Macmillan announced the election in the first week of September , there were polls giving the Tories a lead of 7% - 9%. On election day - 8th October - the Tories won by 5%.. Check the data yourself!
Hi Justin.
I have. Repeatedly. And you are wrong and I am right. Try Butler and butler, British Political Facts. Or the excellent series British General Elections. You will find that your internet sources are not all they might be.l and you are merely appealing to your own prejudices when citing them.
But I don't know why I bother to engage with you at the moment. You used to be an intelligent, thoughtful and knowledgeable left-wing poster. At the moment you're arrogant, rude and a bully, even when you're not wishing for politicians to go blind and lose their legs or comparing them to mass murderers. You're rapidly becoming a left wing and much more unpleasant version of Hyufd.
The key point you need to take away, if you're capable of doing it, is that there is frequently swing back to a government in an election campaign. That's not certain to happen this time. Nothing is certain to happen this time. All we can definitely say is that Johnson with his poll leads and a weak divided opposition is in the box seat.
It's quite remarkable that the man who was Chancellor a few months ago is now persona non grata in the party. Has there ever been a similar case?
The defectors from both major parties who don't feel especially akin to the LibDems have a real problem - it'd be absurd for someone of Hammond's talent to just wander off the scene, but standing as an independent is probably doom. Perhaps a future PM will put him in the Lords.
Kay Burley promoting her early morning show on Sky
'The only show from the heart of Westminster'
And that sums up the metropolian elite in one promotion piece
Is it any wonder there is such anger outside the M25
I don't understand your point. Westminster is our political centre. Certainly MPs, Lords, journalists, presenters and others should not get myopically focused on it as if nothing else matters, but why wouldn't things orbit around it?
It's like London generally - I don't live there, and we shouldnt forget about or neglect the areas that are not in London, but it is the dominant settlement in these islands, so of course it gets more attention.
And your last sentence is at the heart of the reason so many feel left behind
Why should it get more attention than the rest of the country
Most of the resentment directed at London is born of thinly disguised jealousy.
More of it is pity.
The weird obsession you and others on PB have about London indicates otherwise. London is brought up far more frequently by those who live outside it than those of us who live in it.
Plenty of us were born outside London, worked and lived inside, have left it to work outside - and don't miss it one little bit.
Compared to the quality of life I now have, yes, I pity Londoners.
8 tonnes of cocaine a year. As much as the 3 largest consuming cities in Europe put together. It's literally mind blowing. No wonder there are so many remainers.
They found that the average daily amount of pure cocaine being consumed in London was 23kg - more than Europe's next three biggest cocaine-consuming cities combined; Barcelona (12.74kg), Amsterdam (4.62kg) and Berlin (4.62kg).
That seems like an enormous amount in Barcelona.
Though it will also depend on how they define each city - which would also explain why Paris and Madrid are lower.
I think that the population of Barcelona is over 5m according to official records. As you say it really depends where the boundaries are drawn.
Comments
The 'Core Independents' sounds perfect for some of our parliamentary independents
http://search.electoralcommission.org.uk/English/Registrations/PP8001
Though how anyone could say no to the Universal Good party I do not know.
Nor was I claiming that you agree with all his doings, or are even an apologist for them. That supporting him requires some sort of wilful blindness towards those things is, however, undeniable.
Five Governments and counting.
That seems like an enormous amount in Barcelona.
Though it will also depend on how they define each city - which would also explain why Paris and Madrid are lower.
The explosion of so called no 10 sources since Cummings entered the picture is hardly just a coincidence.
I hope and Mrs G have a pleasant nights sleep.
The defectors from both major parties who don't feel especially akin to the LibDems have a real problem - it'd be absurd for someone of Hammond's talent to just wander off the scene, but standing as an independent is probably doom. Perhaps a future PM will put him in the Lords.
Labour's position is that it:
Doesn't want a Boris Johnson Goverment.
Doesn't want to VONC a Boris Johnson government.
Doesn't want a general election.
Doesn't want Jezza (the leader) to be Prime Minister.
Doesn't want anyone else to be Prime Minister.
Doesn't want a No Deal Brexit.
Doesn't want a referendum until after a deal has been neogitated.
Doesn't want a negotiatied deal.
Doesn't want to Revoke.
Doesn't want to Leave.
Have I missed anything out?
Stupid politicians we can fairly blame on a stupid electorate, but giving so much power to unaccountable courtiers is a fundamental failure of our democracy.
Still, at least we haven’t reached quite this pass...
https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/467131-trump-blasts-never-trump-republicans-as-human-scum
Where Boris can be criticized is his homophonic comments.
https://www.economist.com/blighty/2014/06/02/let-the-great-wen-get-greater-still
All the glories and resentments of Brexit encapsulated.
I was in The Smoke on Saturday, in the company of a great many like minded folk. It is a much cleaner, nicer, less dangerous place than the rundown place that I lived in in the early eighties. There are many poor folk there still, but overall there has been a massive redistribution of weather over the last decades in favour of London and the SE, as well as a number of other university towns.
The thing with Hammond is that he is doing it at a time when vote counts are crucial. There were probably plenty Tories who couldn't abide Ted Heath, but since he wasn't in a position to do any damage given their majorities the persona non grata thing wouldn't have arisen in the same way.
It is no more excusable than Corbyn's antisemitism.
Then on Monday SNP will make clear they are ready to VONC the governement or support a one line bill calling for a general election.
At that point Labour's hands are effectively forced by the SNP and with much grumbling they'll cave in and agree to an election for 5th December.
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-10-21/protesters-worldwide-are-united-by-something-other-than-politics
Even if there is a majority government there will still be no time to pass all the relevant legislation to enact the WA so another extension would be needed?
Surely the GE, if there is to be one, has to be as soon as possible, or the Govt should continue with trying to get the WAIB passed?
Or am I missing something?
That gives four weeks before and after Christmas which should be enough to get relevent legislation through.
If it's not quite enough time there is of course a world of difference between a technical extension for a couple of weeks to pass legislation and never ending extensions to kick the can...
An extension is pointless unless we do something with that time. Laying out all the options, that would be to:
a) Renegotiate the WA again.
b) Another referendum to find a way through.
c) A General Election to find a way through.
d) A change in leadership in the Conservative party to either a revoke position, or a No Deal position.
The current UK Parliament will not pass either TM's deal, or BJ's deal in my eyes.
The EU, for all the thoughts on here that they know our procedures and forms very well, are making several mistakes. Tomorrow is the last day we could avoid a December election (Well, I suppose we could have a Friday 29th November election?).
I know people on here are all '5th December GE is FINE. No problems.' We're all political wonks. Come on, tell me truthfully. Put your hand up if you wouldn't mind a Thursday 26th December election.....
*starts counting, including his own*
That's not normal. That's weird.
The public do not want an GE in December, or campaigning over Christmas and New Year. If it isn't 28th November, I think the next available date is 6th February (shame it couldn't be the 2nd.... seems like it enough).
The EU should've replied yesterday (23rd). Either telling us to FRO, and almost force Labour to pass the WA or else we No Deal; or reply in the positive with 31st January and strongly hint to get that GE done.
In terms of the four options above:
A) Seems highly unlikely AGAIN. Everyone must be mightly sick of this by now.
C) Needs to be done today (24th Oct).
D) Is hilarious, but neither is happening.
I think we've missed the bus for a GE, as has the EU. An extension to January is now pointless. It will need to be to the end of February for a GE.
There is an insane level of housebuilding going on, and more planned, right across the south of Edinburgh where there is plenty of land.
I could see the argument (and would have supported him) were it a principled stand against a ND, but he is clearly against the governments deal and if you can't rely on an individual to support their PM at a generational crunch point then they have no place being in that particular party.
And that is the crux of it; Hammond would be a much better fit for the LD's rather than the Tories who want to deliver on the referendum result.
They've had enough of us pissing about and quite honestly I don't blame them.
They're clearly discussing something...
If there isn’t such a result it’s Groundhog Day.
I must admit to being a bit of a Soviet Union fan myself.
But in the spirit of my avatar, can we work in a NCR reference perhaps? Something something, Hoover Dam... something something Boone shoots Jeannie May Crawford.
Similarly, someone supporting Corbyn might be said to be an apologist for his anti-Semitism. Or someone voting for any of the MPs that voted in favour of the Iraq war would be an apologist for war crimes, rather than a war criminal.
The rest don't understand British parliamentary procedure. Not surprising. The LOTO doesn't either.
But the French will be very unhappy about it.
... tell them The North Remembers.
Macron would need to come out and very clearly say, "One month. I will personally veto any further requests to extend. I don't care what anyone else in the EU says, so to avoid that veto the EU need to throw the French Republic out of the EU."
If the wrecking amendments starting being attached and the government pull the bill what then?
Will parliament have the will to vote for R2 or revoke.
You would hope remainers would collectively have the sense to limit any amendments to uncontroversial periphery, and the government would have the sense to accept those amendments. Have a pretend row if needed for public consumption but don't derail the whole show.
Trump: ‘We’re Building a Wall in Colorado, a Big One’
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/10/trump-were-building-a-wall-in-colorado-a-big-one.html
Though it would be easier to say no point in building huge walls.
New thread, btw.
I have. Repeatedly. And you are wrong and I am right. Try Butler and butler, British Political Facts. Or the excellent series British General Elections. You will find that your internet sources are not all they might be.l and you are merely appealing to your own prejudices when citing them.
But I don't know why I bother to engage with you at the moment. You used to be an intelligent, thoughtful and knowledgeable left-wing poster. At the moment you're arrogant, rude and a bully, even when you're not wishing for politicians to go blind and lose their legs or comparing them to mass murderers. You're rapidly becoming a left wing and much more unpleasant version of Hyufd.
The key point you need to take away, if you're capable of doing it, is that there is frequently swing back to a government in an election campaign. That's not certain to happen this time. Nothing is certain to happen this time. All we can definitely say is that Johnson with his poll leads and a weak divided opposition is in the box seat.
The reason the councils of Leeds and Manchester are both mad keen on HS2 is because it will cut journey times between them by 58%.
Like Ruth once was.
It's quite remarkable that the man who was Chancellor a few months ago is now persona non grata in the party. Has there ever been a similar case?The defectors from both major parties who don't feel especially akin to the LibDems have a real problem - it'd be absurd for someone of Hammond's talent to just wander off the scene, but standing as an independent is probably doom. Perhaps a future PM will put him in the Lords.
Someone of his what?