It is, which is why I think only Richmond Park is nailed on. The LDs may find it easier to grab very Remain-y (but currently) Con-Lab seats like Putney and Wimbledon.
Sad to see Big G back in the spin zone. Boris really doesn’t deserve it.
I am in the spin zone for a deal that stops no deal and respects the referendum
Sorry if that upsets you
And to you Big_G, I have read PB for years despite only posting recently.
You have in absolute fairness always maintained your belief in ensuring no No deal whilst respecting the result.
It was, as a viewer, quite a drama seeing you being driven away from the Tories - and a (sudden) decision I absolutely understood. However I am glad that you have felt comfortable enough to consider re-joining. BJ isn't everyone's cup-of-tea (evidently) but he is nothing compared to the danger of Corbyn and his entourage. We must never forget that.
Thank you for your kind post. I am surprised how many on here seem to be upset I have re-joined the party.
I do try to be fair and honest in my posts
Best wishes
You have rejoined? When did that happen?
Yesterday after the one nation group that had lost the whip voted for on the programme motion
Nothing to be ashamed of voting for a donkey with a blue rosette. Just accept that tribalism.
So you’re just going to forget the attempt to suspend democracy then?
It was a slightly longer suspension than usual I grant you. There was no practical effect then or since. I didn't agree with it but I didn't consider it to be the most evil of things some evidently do. Johnson has never suggested forcing my children from their school as enemies of the people; quadrupling my council tax or seeking to destroy the basis of the industry in which I work.
A good deflection I grant you but that wasn't my question.
Your commitment to remaining is admirable and your Headers and Posts are well thought out (mostly ) but I ask again - how can you possibly compare the short to medium term downturn of a No Deal (say) for the whole-scale, fundamental destruction of our economic system as we know it? As a pensions lawyer you must know you are probasbly one of the first to be put up against the metaphorical wall come a Corbyn government,
I don’t have a commitment to remaining.
Leavers, however, have sought to suspend democracy, attack every civic institution of the country: and for what? To inflict as much permanent damage to the economy in pursuit of a malign obsession as they can manage.
Since there is no realistic chance of a majority Labour government, much the most present danger is a continuation of the current anti-democratic government.
Well hopefully for both our sakes and ongoing sanity this government will be shortly replaced by a new democratically elected one, with No Deal all but impossible. But it's going to be either Corbyn or Johnson at the helm.
Wold you therefore prefer a caged Johnson or caged Corbyn (neither with a majority but in C&S with someone)
Of the two, caged Corbyn. He’s less competent and his malign plans are longer term. The damage from Johnson, even caged Johnson, is immediate.
Uncaged would be a harder question.
The press will do a better job of scrutinising Corbyn, too.
So you’re just going to forget the attempt to suspend democracy then?
It was a slightly longer suspension than usual I grant you. There was no practical effect then or since. I didn't agree with it but I didn't consider it to be the most evil of things some evidently do. Johnson has never suggested forcing my children from their school as enemies of the people; quadrupling my council tax or seeking to destroy the basis of the industry in which I work.
A good deflection I grant you but that wasn't my question.
Your commitment to remaining is admirable and your Headers and Posts are well thought out (mostly ) but I ask again - how can you possibly compare the short to medium term downturn of a No Deal (say) for the whole-scale, fundamental destruction of our economic system as we know it? As a pensions lawyer you must know you are probasbly one of the first to be put up against the metaphorical wall come a Corbyn government,
I don’t have a commitment to remaining.
Leavers, however, have sought to suspend democracy, attack every civic institution of the country: and for what? To inflict as much permanent damage to the economy in pursuit of a malign obsession as they can manage.
Since there is no realistic chance of a majority Labour government, much the most present danger is a continuation of the current anti-democratic government.
Well hopefully for both our sakes and ongoing sanity this government will be shortly replaced by a new democratically elected one, with No Deal all but impossible. But it's going to be either Corbyn or Johnson at the helm.
Wold you therefore prefer a caged Johnson or caged Corbyn (neither with a majority but in C&S with someone)
Of the two, caged Corbyn. He’s less competent and his malign plans are longer term. The damage from Johnson, even caged Johnson, is immediate.
Uncaged would be a harder question.
The press will do a better job of scrutinising Corbyn, too.
Laura K might even remember some of the newscraft she was taught at journalism school.
That is a false choice. There are other parties to vote for.
But only two realistic choices for PM.
There is no need to vote for either. Only a few seats are Lab/Tory marginals, not more than 10%, so 90% of us are in other constituencies and can vote our consciences.
It’s sad to see a decent man rejoining a party that is run by narrow-minded nationalists and led by a mendacious moron.
Anyone who supports Boris is an apologist for his racism.
That is outrageous
Indeed for anyone to make that comment about me who has not a racist bone in my body is frankly out of order
If you support Boris, you personally, are an apologist for his racism. Sorry if that upsets you, but it's a choice you need to make. I've seen a lot of people point out on here that supporting Corbyn makes you an apologist for antisemitism. I don't see what the difference is.
It’s sad to see a decent man rejoining a party that is run by narrow-minded nationalists and led by a mendacious moron.
Anyone who supports Boris is an apologist for his racism.
That is outrageous
Indeed for anyone to make that comment about me who has not a racist bone in my body is frankly out of order
If you support Boris, you personally, are an apologist for his racism. Sorry if that upsets you, but it's a choice you need to make. I've seen a lot of people point out on here that supporting Corbyn makes you an apologist for antisemitism. I don't see what the difference is.
It’s sad to see a decent man rejoining a party that is run by narrow-minded nationalists and led by a mendacious moron.
Anyone who supports Boris is an apologist for his racism.
Does that make everyone who supports Corbyn an anti-Semite? Can you not see how ridiculous this is?
When I was having a wobble a few weeks ago and thinking of voting Labour for the first time in my life, I was told with vigour and authority that that's exactly what it would be. I'm over that wobble now, but I have noted that the same ones who assured me that voting Labour would be immoral for that reason, tend not to worry at all about Boris Johnson.
You can have it both or neither, but you can't pick and choose, cos Boris is as bad as Corbyn.
More Boris cowardice it would seem...... What a spineless individual.
Having an election "spineless"? Well it's a view I suppose.
While I despise Johnson, I have to confess I find it peculiar that he’s being abused for trying to get an election and Corbyn is being abused for trying to block one.
It’s fine to criticise them for being liars, bullies, retards, populists, cronyists, racists and hypocrites, but this one doesn’t make sense. Either there should be an election, or there shouldn’t. But all people are doing is seeing it through their partisan specs and screaming at the other side for stopping them.
Sorry - I put it against the wrong tweet. There were two of them. This one (above) and another complaining that Boris had bottled out of a monthly grilling by MPs. For the third time. That was the tweet I meant to post against (below)
More Boris cowardice it would seem...... What a spineless individual.
Having an election "spineless"? Well it's a view I suppose.
While I despise Johnson, I have to confess I find it peculiar that he’s being abused for trying to get an election and Corbyn is being abused for trying to block one.
It’s fine to criticise them for being liars, bullies, retards, populists, cronyists, racists and hypocrites, but this one doesn’t make sense. Either there should be an election, or there shouldn’t. But all people are doing is seeing it through their partisan specs and screaming at the other side for stopping them.
Sorry - I put it against the wrong tweet. There were two of them. This one (above) and another complaining that Boris had bottled out of a monthly grilling by MPs. For the third time. That was the tweet I meant to post against (below)
So you’re just going to forget the attempt to suspend democracy then?
It was a slightly longer suspension than usual I grant you. There was no practical effect then or since. I didn't agree with it but I didn't consider it to be the most evil of things some evidently do. Johnson has never suggested forcing my children from their school as enemies of the people; quadrupling my council tax or seeking to destroy the basis of the industry in which I work.
A good deflection I grant you but that wasn't my question.
Your commitment to remaining is admirable and your Headers and Posts are well thought out (mostly ) but I ask again - how can you possibly compare the short to medium term downturn of a No Deal (say) for the whole-scale, fundamental destruction of our economic system as we know it? As a pensions lawyer you must know you are probasbly one of the first to be put up against the metaphorical wall come a Corbyn government,
I don’t have a commitment to remaining.
Leavers, however, have sought to suspend democracy, attack every civic institution of the country: and for what? To inflict as much permanent damage to the economy in pursuit of a malign obsession as they can manage.
Since there is no realistic chance of a majority Labour government, much the most present danger is a continuation of the current anti-democratic government.
Well hopefully for both our sakes and ongoing sanity this government will be shortly replaced by a new democratically elected one, with No Deal all but impossible. But it's going to be either Corbyn or Johnson at the helm.
Wold you therefore prefer a caged Johnson or caged Corbyn (neither with a majority but in C&S with someone)
Of the two, caged Corbyn. He’s less competent and his malign plans are longer term. The damage from Johnson, even caged Johnson, is immediate.
Uncaged would be a harder question.
The press will do a better job of scrutinising Corbyn, too.
Laura K might even remember some of the newscraft she was taught at journalism school.
I think all current journalists need to do a bit of retraining after this has all ended. Beginning with the banning of using Twitter to try and convey complex situations or concepts just to titillate over excitable followers.
I never thought they were going to be let back into the party anyway. BJ and his fanatics are trying to reshape the Tories into UKIP or TBP. They will select ERG types to replace those MPs that have had the whip withdrawn. Indeed, if an electoral pact with TBP is in the pipeline, it is not beyond possibility that Farage, Tice and Co. are gifted the seats. The Tories are not a one nation party anymore and that phrase is persistently used to describe politicians who do not share the values of those associated with one nation politics.
It’s sad to see a decent man rejoining a party that is run by narrow-minded nationalists and led by a mendacious moron.
Anyone who supports Boris is an apologist for his racism.
That is outrageous
Indeed for anyone to make that comment about me who has not a racist bone in my body is frankly out of order
If you support Boris, you personally, are an apologist for his racism. Sorry if that upsets you, but it's a choice you need to make. I've seen a lot of people point out on here that supporting Corbyn makes you an apologist for antisemitism. I don't see what the difference is.
How is Boris a racist?
Google will do an efficient job of finding his history of racist statements. I don't propose to walk yet another person through this because it's really fucking wearying to have to explain that certain racist words are racist. If you intend to be obtuse, don't, I won't feed it.
It’s sad to see a decent man rejoining a party that is run by narrow-minded nationalists and led by a mendacious moron.
Anyone who supports Boris is an apologist for his racism.
That is outrageous
Indeed for anyone to make that comment about me who has not a racist bone in my body is frankly out of order
If you support Boris, you personally, are an apologist for his racism. Sorry if that upsets you, but it's a choice you need to make. I've seen a lot of people point out on here that supporting Corbyn makes you an apologist for antisemitism. I don't see what the difference is.
I have never been accused of racism and you are just lashing out, which is a shame
Looking across the whole UK, several London boroughs (Lambeth, Hackney, Islington and Camden) persistently had some of the lowest personal well-being ratings reported across all measures since the year ending March 2012 (Figure 6). They were followed by Wolverhampton, Manchester, Lewisham, Greenwich and Nottingham which reported poor well-being scores for three measures.
Liverpool, Southwark and Haringey round out the 'depressed dozen' of the last decade.
Its noticeable that they are all urban areas, mostly strongly Remain and all Labour strongholds.
Presumably Mansfield was number one? It is, after all, your paleo conservative vision for Britain.
The insecurity of Londoners is always amusing
Though Mansfield rates lower than Ashfield, Bassetlaw and Bolsover - a bit of nice countryside and fresh air is clearly a boost to well being.
Looking across the whole UK, several London boroughs (Lambeth, Hackney, Islington and Camden) persistently had some of the lowest personal well-being ratings reported across all measures since the year ending March 2012 (Figure 6). They were followed by Wolverhampton, Manchester, Lewisham, Greenwich and Nottingham which reported poor well-being scores for three measures.
Liverpool, Southwark and Haringey round out the 'depressed dozen' of the last decade.
Its noticeable that they are all urban areas, mostly strongly Remain and all Labour strongholds.
Presumably Mansfield was number one? It is, after all, your paleo conservative vision for Britain.
The case studies in that report, below the charts linked to, are very interesting. North Devon -low wages but everyone works and it's pretty and there's excellent civic engagement and low crime, so it's a happy place. Chichester is well-to-do, again with good community spirit and so they're cheery too. Wolverhampton is poor and everyone is a bit poorly and it looks like a Soviet architect's photocopying so they are miserable. Lambeth is the perfect shithole; astonishingly expensive, high unemployment, lots of kids in low-income families, relentlessly stabby, scruffy, polluted.
I've lived in North Devon and that one rings very true to me.
It’s sad to see a decent man rejoining a party that is run by narrow-minded nationalists and led by a mendacious moron.
Anyone who supports Boris is an apologist for his racism.
That is outrageous
Indeed for anyone to make that comment about me who has not a racist bone in my body is frankly out of order
If you support Boris, you personally, are an apologist for his racism. Sorry if that upsets you, but it's a choice you need to make. I've seen a lot of people point out on here that supporting Corbyn makes you an apologist for antisemitism. I don't see what the difference is.
How is Boris a racist?
Indeed. It's amazing how many people think that saying -
It’s sad to see a decent man rejoining a party that is run by narrow-minded nationalists and led by a mendacious moron.
Anyone who supports Boris is an apologist for his racism.
Does that make everyone who supports Corbyn an anti-Semite? Can you not see how ridiculous this is?
When I was having a wobble a few weeks ago and thinking of voting Labour for the first time in my life, I was told with vigour and authority that that's exactly what it would be. I'm over that wobble now, but I have noted that the same ones who assured me that voting Labour would be immoral for that reason, tend not to worry at all about Boris Johnson.
You can have it both or neither, but you can't pick and choose, cos Boris is as bad as Corbyn.
I am probably voting Labour to ensure the local Labour MP, who is a remainer is re-elected. I had thought about voting LD but I feel helping the local Labour MP is a better use of my vote, I don't think about Corbyn! My vote will not get him into No.10 or stop him. I voted Tory in 2017 and every other GE since I got the vote. The Tories, that I used to support no longer exist, they are a hollowed out rump of a certain demographic who have some very strange views and misplaced priorities.
I suspect Boris Johnson will yet again come to regret burning bridges with people who carry votes.
He is acting like a man who believes there is no chance he will not win an election shortly, therefore it does not matter that he burns bridges.
He might yet be proven right, but I should think those whose priority is Brexit rather than a Tory government must be frustrated as the former is almost within reach, and he seems to be doing what he can to not go for it, so that he can justify seeking the latter.
It’s sad to see a decent man rejoining a party that is run by narrow-minded nationalists and led by a mendacious moron.
Anyone who supports Boris is an apologist for his racism.
That is outrageous
Indeed for anyone to make that comment about me who has not a racist bone in my body is frankly out of order
If you support Boris, you personally, are an apologist for his racism. Sorry if that upsets you, but it's a choice you need to make. I've seen a lot of people point out on here that supporting Corbyn makes you an apologist for antisemitism. I don't see what the difference is.
I have never been accused of racism and you are just lashing out, which is a shame
I'm accusing you of being an apologist for his racism. That might actually be worse, in a strange way. It seems that you have an understanding, on some detached, intellectual level, that racism is wrong. And yet you are supporting a racist. That's rather like saying "I don't do evil -- I outsource".
Kay Burley promoting her early morning show on Sky
'The only show from the heart of Westminster'
And that sums up the metropolian elite in one promotion piece
Is it any wonder there is such anger outside the M25
I don't understand your point. Westminster is our political centre. Certainly MPs, Lords, journalists, presenters and others should not get myopically focused on it as if nothing else matters, but why wouldn't things orbit around it?
It's like London generally - I don't live there, and we shouldnt forget about or neglect the areas that are not in London, but it is the dominant settlement in these islands, so of course it gets more attention.
It’s sad to see a decent man rejoining a party that is run by narrow-minded nationalists and led by a mendacious moron.
Anyone who supports Boris is an apologist for his racism.
That is outrageous
Indeed for anyone to make that comment about me who has not a racist bone in my body is frankly out of order
If you support Boris, you personally, are an apologist for his racism. Sorry if that upsets you, but it's a choice you need to make. I've seen a lot of people point out on here that supporting Corbyn makes you an apologist for antisemitism. I don't see what the difference is.
I have never been accused of racism and you are just lashing out, which is a shame
I'm accusing you of being an apologist for his racism. That might actually be worse, in a strange way. It seems that you have an understanding, on some detached, intellectual level, that racism is wrong. And yet you are supporting a racist. That's rather like saying "I don't do evil -- I outsource".
I have never done this before on this forum but I will not engage with you again
Looking across the whole UK, several London boroughs (Lambeth, Hackney, Islington and Camden) persistently had some of the lowest personal well-being ratings reported across all measures since the year ending March 2012 (Figure 6). They were followed by Wolverhampton, Manchester, Lewisham, Greenwich and Nottingham which reported poor well-being scores for three measures.
Liverpool, Southwark and Haringey round out the 'depressed dozen' of the last decade.
Its noticeable that they are all urban areas, mostly strongly Remain and all Labour strongholds.
Presumably Mansfield was number one? It is, after all, your paleo conservative vision for Britain.
The insecurity of Londoners is always amusing
Though Mansfield rates lower than Ashfield, Bassetlaw and Bolsover - a bit of nice countryside and fresh air is clearly a boost to well being.
What you don’t realise is that I know those areas intimately. And would much rather live where I do now. On the edge of London, with instant access to the countryside. Great better pubs and restaurants here. North Notts, not so much.
It’s sad to see a decent man rejoining a party that is run by narrow-minded nationalists and led by a mendacious moron.
Anyone who supports Boris is an apologist for his racism.
That is outrageous
Indeed for anyone to make that comment about me who has not a racist bone in my body is frankly out of order
If you support Boris, you personally, are an apologist for his racism. Sorry if that upsets you, but it's a choice you need to make. I've seen a lot of people point out on here that supporting Corbyn makes you an apologist for antisemitism. I don't see what the difference is.
How is Boris a racist?
Indeed. It's amazing how many people think that saying -
His statements here seem rather to be satirically suggesting that Blair was the one being racist - in the sense that he enjoyed playing the role of the colonial white male bringing enlightenment to sub-saharan Africa. The use of racist/archaic language is clearly heavily sarcastic. Rather in the vein of those today who criticise white celebrities for being filmed doing charity work in Africa.
I suspect Boris Johnson will yet again come to regret burning bridges with people who carry votes.
He is acting like a man who believes there is no chance he will not win an election shortly, therefore it does not matter that he burns bridges.
He might yet be proven right, but I should think those whose priority is Brexit rather than a Tory government must be frustrated as the former is almost within reach, and he seems to be doing what he can to not go for it, so that he can justify seeking the latter.
Perhaps Boris does not actually care about Brexit?
It’s sad to see a decent man rejoining a party that is run by narrow-minded nationalists and led by a mendacious moron.
Anyone who supports Boris is an apologist for his racism.
Does that make everyone who supports Corbyn an anti-Semite? Can you not see how ridiculous this is?
When I was having a wobble a few weeks ago and thinking of voting Labour for the first time in my life, I was told with vigour and authority that that's exactly what it would be. I'm over that wobble now, but I have noted that the same ones who assured me that voting Labour would be immoral for that reason, tend not to worry at all about Boris Johnson.
You can have it both or neither, but you can't pick and choose, cos Boris is as bad as Corbyn.
I am probably voting Labour to ensure the local Labour MP, who is a remainer is re-elected. I had thought about voting LD but I feel helping the local Labour MP is a better use of my vote, I don't think about Corbyn! My vote will not get him into No.10 or stop him. I voted Tory in 2017 and every other GE since I got the vote. The Tories, that I used to support no longer exist, they are a hollowed out rump of a certain demographic who have some very strange views and misplaced priorities.
I have sympathy with your view about voting for a particular candidate and not thinking about the national picture. I do also think you should take both into account to some degree.
Kay Burley promoting her early morning show on Sky
'The only show from the heart of Westminster'
And that sums up the metropolian elite in one promotion piece
Is it any wonder there is such anger outside the M25
Ah yes, the "metropolitan elite". You know, people like Boris Johnson and Jacob Rees-Mogg.
JRM is hardly metropolitan.
His Wikipedia page suggests otherwise:
"Rees-Mogg was born in Hammersmith, London, and educated at Eton College. He then studied History at Trinity College, Oxford, and was President of the Oxford University Conservative Association. He worked in the City of London for Lloyd George Management until 2007, then co-founded a hedge fund management business Somerset Capital Management LLP. He has amassed a significant fortune: his estimated net worth in 2016 was from £55 million to (including his wife's prospects) £150 million"
Kay Burley promoting her early morning show on Sky
'The only show from the heart of Westminster'
And that sums up the metropolian elite in one promotion piece
Is it any wonder there is such anger outside the M25
I don't understand your point. Westminster is our political centre. Certainly MPs, Lords, journalists, presenters and others should not get myopically focused on it as if nothing else matters, but why wouldn't things orbit around it?
It's like London generally - I don't live there, and we shouldnt forget about or neglect the areas that are not in London, but it is the dominant settlement in these islands, so of course it gets more attention.
It also has to be remembered that London and its financial centre produce a lot of GDP, which is taxed and redistributed to the area outside of the M25.
Though Mayor Pete does seem rather more in bed with Facebook than the other Dems. Presumably he feels that selling his soul is fine if you get a good enough price.
Kay Burley promoting her early morning show on Sky
'The only show from the heart of Westminster'
And that sums up the metropolian elite in one promotion piece
Is it any wonder there is such anger outside the M25
I don't understand your point. Westminster is our political centre. Certainly MPs, Lords, journalists, presenters and others should not get myopically focused on it as if nothing else matters, but why wouldn't things orbit around it?
It's like London generally - I don't live there, and we shouldnt forget about or neglect the areas that are not in London, but it is the dominant settlement in these islands, so of course it gets more attention.
And your last sentence is at the heart of the reason so many feel left behind
Why should it get more attention than the rest of the country
It’s sad to see a decent man rejoining a party that is run by narrow-minded nationalists and led by a mendacious moron.
Anyone who supports Boris is an apologist for his racism.
That is outrageous
Indeed for anyone to make that comment about me who has not a racist bone in my body is frankly out of order
If you support Boris, you personally, are an apologist for his racism. Sorry if that upsets you, but it's a choice you need to make. I've seen a lot of people point out on here that supporting Corbyn makes you an apologist for antisemitism. I don't see what the difference is.
I have never been accused of racism and you are just lashing out, which is a shame
I'm accusing you of being an apologist for his racism. That might actually be worse, in a strange way. It seems that you have an understanding, on some detached, intellectual level, that racism is wrong. And yet you are supporting a racist. That's rather like saying "I don't do evil -- I outsource".
I have never done this before on this forum but I will not engage with you again
It’s sad to see a decent man rejoining a party that is run by narrow-minded nationalists and led by a mendacious moron.
Anyone who supports Boris is an apologist for his racism.
Does that make everyone who supports Corbyn an anti-Semite? Can you not see how ridiculous this is?
When I was having a wobble a few weeks ago and thinking of voting Labour for the first time in my life, I was told with vigour and authority that that's exactly what it would be. I'm over that wobble now, but I have noted that the same ones who assured me that voting Labour would be immoral for that reason, tend not to worry at all about Boris Johnson.
You can have it both or neither, but you can't pick and choose, cos Boris is as bad as Corbyn.
No he isn't. He's dishonest, unreliable, ill-disciplined, immoral in his personal dealings and untrustworthy but he's nowhere near as bad as Corbyn who is most of that list but also thick, economically incompetent and incontinent and a friend of any anti-western terrorist group you care to name.
I suspect Boris Johnson will yet again come to regret burning bridges with people who carry votes.
He is acting like a man who believes there is no chance he will not win an election shortly, therefore it does not matter that he burns bridges.
He might yet be proven right, but I should think those whose priority is Brexit rather than a Tory government must be frustrated as the former is almost within reach, and he seems to be doing what he can to not go for it, so that he can justify seeking the latter.
Perhaps Boris does not actually care about Brexit?
Yes and No. I find it difficult to believe he is an avowed supporter of the principle of leaving the EU as a fundamentally important policy, but his political survival and success will depend upon him delivering it, so he will do anything he has to in order to achieve it. That can be a good thing, in that he was willing to compromise and be ruthless to get a deal, knowing that he was not going to be able to get no deal as a back up. But obviously it is also a bad thing with what he might do to get it, and I think his actions risking Brexit now (since his people say he has the numbers to pass it) via a GE which he may or may not win, demonstrate that while he needs it, politically, he would rather defer getting it now, if he might find it easier later, even at the risk he loses and cannot deliver, because it is not as important to him as winning generally.
It also has to be remembered that London and its financial centre produce a lot of GDP, which is taxed and redistributed to the area outside of the M25.
Looking across the whole UK, several London boroughs (Lambeth, Hackney, Islington and Camden) persistently had some of the lowest personal well-being ratings reported across all measures since the year ending March 2012 (Figure 6). They were followed by Wolverhampton, Manchester, Lewisham, Greenwich and Nottingham which reported poor well-being scores for three measures.
Liverpool, Southwark and Haringey round out the 'depressed dozen' of the last decade.
Its noticeable that they are all urban areas, mostly strongly Remain and all Labour strongholds.
Presumably Mansfield was number one? It is, after all, your paleo conservative vision for Britain.
The insecurity of Londoners is always amusing
Though Mansfield rates lower than Ashfield, Bassetlaw and Bolsover - a bit of nice countryside and fresh air is clearly a boost to well being.
What you don’t realise is that I know those areas intimately. And would much rather live where I do now. On the edge of London, with instant access to the countryside. Great better pubs and restaurants here. North Notts, not so much.
Well I did realise that because you've mentioned it previously.
As to where you prefer to live that's your choice and it would be a boring world if we all wanted the same things.
I will point out that the cost of living on the edge of London with instant access to the countryside is significantly higher than it is in North Nottinghamshire and beyond the means of most people unless they were fortunate enough to buy property when prices were much lower.
In any case 'edge of London with instant access to the countryside' isn't a feature of those parts of London which feature at the bottom of the well being list.
I never thought they were going to be let back into the party anyway. BJ and his fanatics are trying to reshape the Tories into UKIP or TBP. They will select ERG types to replace those MPs that have had the whip withdrawn. Indeed, if an electoral pact with TBP is in the pipeline, it is not beyond possibility that Farage, Tice and Co. are gifted the seats. The Tories are not a one nation party anymore and that phrase is persistently used to describe politicians who do not share the values of those associated with one nation politics.
The Europhile Headbangers are the ones who have destabilised the Onservative Party.
With them gone, we can settle down to a period of finding something else to fall out about.
It’s sad to see a decent man rejoining a party that is run by narrow-minded nationalists and led by a mendacious moron.
Anyone who supports Boris is an apologist for his racism.
Does that make everyone who supports Corbyn an anti-Semite? Can you not see how ridiculous this is?
When I was having a wobble a few weeks ago and thinking of voting Labour for the first time in my life, I was told with vigour and authority that that's exactly what it would be. I'm over that wobble now, but I have noted that the same ones who assured me that voting Labour would be immoral for that reason, tend not to worry at all about Boris Johnson.
You can have it both or neither, but you can't pick and choose, cos Boris is as bad as Corbyn.
No he isn't. He's dishonest, unreliable, ill-disciplined, immoral in his personal dealings and untrustworthy but he's nowhere near as bad as Corbyn who is most of that list but also thick, economically incompetent and incontinent and a friend of any anti-western terrorist group you care to name.
Boris Johnson is the more immediate danger and has in his short period in power launched an assault on democracy. The ability of Leavers to shrug this off is frankly terrifying.
It’s sad to see a decent man rejoining a party that is run by narrow-minded nationalists and led by a mendacious moron.
Anyone who supports Boris is an apologist for his racism.
Does that make everyone who supports Corbyn an anti-Semite? Can you not see how ridiculous this is?
Of course not - but it does require them to overlook, or elide, or otherwise ignore the strain of antisemitism in the party that he evidently tolerates.
In the same way, going in to spin for Boris requires a certain wilful blindness to his glaring mendacity and equally evident fondness for the language of the late imperial period towards its colonial subjects.
It’s sad to see a decent man rejoining a party that is run by narrow-minded nationalists and led by a mendacious moron.
Anyone who supports Boris is an apologist for his racism.
That is outrageous
Indeed for anyone to make that comment about me who has not a racist bone in my body is frankly out of order
If you support Boris, you personally, are an apologist for his racism. Sorry if that upsets you, but it's a choice you need to make. I've seen a lot of people point out on here that supporting Corbyn makes you an apologist for antisemitism. I don't see what the difference is.
How is Boris a racist?
Indeed. It's amazing how many people think that saying -
His statements here seem rather to be satirically suggesting that Blair was the one being racist - in the sense that he enjoyed playing the role of the colonial white male bringing enlightenment to sub-saharan Africa. The use of racist/archaic language is clearly heavily sarcastic. Rather in the vein of those today who criticise white celebrities for being filmed doing charity work in Africa.
I was amused when BJ went to the Palace back in the summer and HMQ asked him to form a Government. On his way in the footman was from an ethnic minority, that, BJ had derided in the past or written "amusing" articles in which he referenced certain traits. I could not help but think that HMQ has a quirky sense of humour! On the other hand it may have been completely coincidental...
Kay Burley promoting her early morning show on Sky
'The only show from the heart of Westminster'
And that sums up the metropolian elite in one promotion piece
Is it any wonder there is such anger outside the M25
I don't understand your point. Westminster is our political centre. Certainly MPs, Lords, journalists, presenters and others should not get myopically focused on it as if nothing else matters, but why wouldn't things orbit around it?
It's like London generally - I don't live there, and we shouldnt forget about or neglect the areas that are not in London, but it is the dominant settlement in these islands, so of course it gets more attention.
And your last sentence is at the heart of the reason so many feel left behind
Why should it get more attention than the rest of the country
Er, because the urban area of London takes up almost a fifth of the country's population. This is one of those things like the advisory referendum argument where I don't know why people get so worked up about it. London is huge and important, it gets more attention as a result. Whether the level of attention is still disproportionate to that importance I think is worthy of debate, and I think the answer is probably yes, it does, and the rest of the country, all the constituent parts, need more attention than they get.
But that's not the same as getting angry at there being a lot of focus on London. As I said, I don't live there nor dispute it gets too much attention, but it should get more attention than any other place in these islands because it is so big and important.
It's like being mad at how many MPs it gets compared to other places, and thus more influence.
I live in the Tory shires, I'm no member of the 'metropolitan elite' however it is defined, I'm confident of that, and I don't think it is necessary to take a point about not wishing to be overwhelmed by a focus on London into the unrelated point about being angry that it gets more focus than other places. Those things are not the same.
Kay Burley promoting her early morning show on Sky
'The only show from the heart of Westminster'
And that sums up the metropolian elite in one promotion piece
Is it any wonder there is such anger outside the M25
I don't understand your point. Westminster is our political centre. Certainly MPs, Lords, journalists, presenters and others should not get myopically focused on it as if nothing else matters, but why wouldn't things orbit around it?
It's like London generally - I don't live there, and we shouldnt forget about or neglect the areas that are not in London, but it is the dominant settlement in these islands, so of course it gets more attention.
And your last sentence is at the heart of the reason so many feel left behind
Why should it get more attention than the rest of the country
Most of the resentment directed at London is born of thinly disguised jealousy.
Looking across the whole UK, several London boroughs (Lambeth, Hackney, Islington and Camden) persistently had some of the lowest personal well-being ratings reported across all measures since the year ending March 2012 (Figure 6). They were followed by Wolverhampton, Manchester, Lewisham, Greenwich and Nottingham which reported poor well-being scores for three measures.
Liverpool, Southwark and Haringey round out the 'depressed dozen' of the last decade.
Its noticeable that they are all urban areas, mostly strongly Remain and all Labour strongholds.
Presumably Mansfield was number one? It is, after all, your paleo conservative vision for Britain.
The insecurity of Londoners is always amusing
Though Mansfield rates lower than Ashfield, Bassetlaw and Bolsover - a bit of nice countryside and fresh air is clearly a boost to well being.
What you don’t realise is that I know those areas intimately. And would much rather live where I do now. On the edge of London, with instant access to the countryside. Great better pubs and restaurants here. North Notts, not so much.
The nugget buried away there - that you have instant access to the countryside - suggests either you already live in the countryside, so not in London at all, or else (the interesting bit) you have a Star Trek transporter system in your abode.
It’s sad to see a decent man rejoining a party that is run by narrow-minded nationalists and led by a mendacious moron.
Anyone who supports Boris is an apologist for his racism.
Does that make everyone who supports Corbyn an anti-Semite? Can you not see how ridiculous this is?
When I was having a wobble a few weeks ago and thinking of voting Labour for the first time in my life, I was told with vigour and authority that that's exactly what it would be. I'm over that wobble now, but I have noted that the same ones who assured me that voting Labour would be immoral for that reason, tend not to worry at all about Boris Johnson.
You can have it both or neither, but you can't pick and choose, cos Boris is as bad as Corbyn.
No he isn't. He's dishonest, unreliable, ill-disciplined, immoral in his personal dealings and untrustworthy but he's nowhere near as bad as Corbyn who is most of that list but also thick, economically incompetent and incontinent and a friend of any anti-western terrorist group you care to name.
Boris Johnson is the more immediate danger and has in his short period in power launched an assault on democracy. The ability of Leavers to shrug this off is frankly terrifying.
I hope everyone, and I mean everyone has a pleasant night
And just for the record while HYUFD and I are in the conservative party we disagree more than we agree as can be evidenced in our posts over the last 12 months
It’s sad to see a decent man rejoining a party that is run by narrow-minded nationalists and led by a mendacious moron.
Anyone who supports Boris is an apologist for his racism.
That is outrageous
Indeed for anyone to make that comment about me who has not a racist bone in my body is frankly out of order
If you support Boris, you personally, are an apologist for his racism. Sorry if that upsets you, but it's a choice you need to make. I've seen a lot of people point out on here that supporting Corbyn makes you an apologist for antisemitism. I don't see what the difference is.
How is Boris a racist?
Indeed. It's amazing how many people think that saying -
His statements here seem rather to be satirically suggesting that Blair was the one being racist - in the sense that he enjoyed playing the role of the colonial white male bringing enlightenment to sub-saharan Africa. The use of racist/archaic language is clearly heavily sarcastic. Rather in the vein of those today who criticise white celebrities for being filmed doing charity work in Africa.
Kay Burley promoting her early morning show on Sky
'The only show from the heart of Westminster'
And that sums up the metropolian elite in one promotion piece
Is it any wonder there is such anger outside the M25
I don't understand your point. Westminster is our political centre. Certainly MPs, Lords, journalists, presenters and others should not get myopically focused on it as if nothing else matters, but why wouldn't things orbit around it?
It's like London generally - I don't live there, and we shouldnt forget about or neglect the areas that are not in London, but it is the dominant settlement in these islands, so of course it gets more attention.
And your last sentence is at the heart of the reason so many feel left behind
Why should it get more attention than the rest of the country
Most of the resentment directed at London is born of thinly disguised jealousy.
It’s sad to see a decent man rejoining a party that is run by narrow-minded nationalists and led by a mendacious moron.
Anyone who supports Boris is an apologist for his racism.
Does that make everyone who supports Corbyn an anti-Semite? Can you not see how ridiculous this is?
When I was having a wobble a few weeks ago and thinking of voting Labour for the first time in my life, I was told with vigour and authority that that's exactly what it would be. I'm over that wobble now, but I have noted that the same ones who assured me that voting Labour would be immoral for that reason, tend not to worry at all about Boris Johnson.
You can have it both or neither, but you can't pick and choose, cos Boris is as bad as Corbyn.
No he isn't. He's dishonest, unreliable, ill-disciplined, immoral in his personal dealings and untrustworthy but he's nowhere near as bad as Corbyn who is most of that list but also thick, economically incompetent and incontinent and a friend of any anti-western terrorist group you care to name.
Boris Johnson is the more immediate danger and has in his short period in power launched an assault on democracy. The ability of Leavers to shrug this off is frankly terrifying.
You're being hysterical again Alastair.
He sought to suspend democracy to impose a policy that no one had voted for, as a Prime Minister that no one had voted for leading a government without a majority.
Every word of that is sober fact. Give your head a wobble.
It’s sad to see a decent man rejoining a party that is run by narrow-minded nationalists and led by a mendacious moron.
Anyone who supports Boris is an apologist for his racism.
Does that make everyone who supports Corbyn an anti-Semite? Can you not see how ridiculous this is?
When I was having a wobble a few weeks ago and thinking of voting Labour for the first time in my life, I was told with vigour and authority that that's exactly what it would be. I'm over that wobble now, but I have noted that the same ones who assured me that voting Labour would be immoral for that reason, tend not to worry at all about Boris Johnson.
You can have it both or neither, but you can't pick and choose, cos Boris is as bad as Corbyn.
No he isn't. He's dishonest, unreliable, ill-disciplined, immoral in his personal dealings and untrustworthy but he's nowhere near as bad as Corbyn who is most of that list but also thick, economically incompetent and incontinent and a friend of any anti-western terrorist group you care to name.
We can't pick and choose every single characteristic of every politician whose political careers our vote might aid. To try to do so is utterly nonsensical. We vote for the party that we feel broadly will do the most good, for the country, and, importantly, for ourselves. Any vote for human politicians is a compromise, and nobody should be condemned for making that compromise.
It’s sad to see a decent man rejoining a party that is run by narrow-minded nationalists and led by a mendacious moron.
Anyone who supports Boris is an apologist for his racism.
That is outrageous
Indeed for anyone to make that comment about me who has not a racist bone in my body is frankly out of order
If you support Boris, you personally, are an apologist for his racism. Sorry if that upsets you, but it's a choice you need to make. I've seen a lot of people point out on here that supporting Corbyn makes you an apologist for antisemitism. I don't see what the difference is.
How is Boris a racist?
Indeed. It's amazing how many people think that saying -
His statements here seem rather to be satirically suggesting that Blair was the one being racist - in the sense that he enjoyed playing the role of the colonial white male bringing enlightenment to sub-saharan Africa. The use of racist/archaic language is clearly heavily sarcastic. Rather in the vein of those today who criticise white celebrities for being filmed doing charity work in Africa.
Kay Burley promoting her early morning show on Sky
'The only show from the heart of Westminster'
And that sums up the metropolian elite in one promotion piece
Is it any wonder there is such anger outside the M25
I don't understand your point. Westminster is our political centre. Certainly MPs, Lords, journalists, presenters and others should not get myopically focused on it as if nothing else matters, but why wouldn't things orbit around it?
It's like London generally - I don't live there, and we shouldnt forget about or neglect the areas that are not in London, but it is the dominant settlement in these islands, so of course it gets more attention.
And your last sentence is at the heart of the reason so many feel left behind
Why should it get more attention than the rest of the country
Most of the resentment directed at London is born of thinly disguised jealousy.
No different to the way that poor people feel resentment at rich people in general.
I never thought they were going to be let back into the party anyway. BJ and his fanatics are trying to reshape the Tories into UKIP or TBP. They will select ERG types to replace those MPs that have had the whip withdrawn. Indeed, if an electoral pact with TBP is in the pipeline, it is not beyond possibility that Farage, Tice and Co. are gifted the seats. The Tories are not a one nation party anymore and that phrase is persistently used to describe politicians who do not share the values of those associated with one nation politics.
The Europhile Headbangers are the ones who have destabilised the Onservative Party.
With them gone, we can settle down to a period of finding something else to fall out about.
The Onservative Party for onanists and monomaniacs?
Looking across the whole UK, several London boroughs (Lambeth, Hackney, Islington and Camden) persistently had some of the lowest personal well-being ratings reported across all measures since the year ending March 2012 (Figure 6). They were followed by Wolverhampton, Manchester, Lewisham, Greenwich and Nottingham which reported poor well-being scores for three measures.
Liverpool, Southwark and Haringey round out the 'depressed dozen' of the last decade.
Its noticeable that they are all urban areas, mostly strongly Remain and all Labour strongholds.
Presumably Mansfield was number one? It is, after all, your paleo conservative vision for Britain.
The case studies in that report, below the charts linked to, are very interesting. North Devon -low wages but everyone works and it's pretty and there's excellent civic engagement and low crime, so it's a happy place. Chichester is well-to-do, again with good community spirit and so they're cheery too. Wolverhampton is poor and everyone is a bit poorly and it looks like a Soviet architect's photocopying so they are miserable. Lambeth is the perfect shithole; astonishingly expensive, high unemployment, lots of kids in low-income families, relentlessly stabby, scruffy, polluted.
I've lived in North Devon and that one rings very true to me.
I find it interesting that those deprived coastal areas don't feature in the low well being list - perhaps fresh air and sea views give them a boost.
Also the deprived Lancashire mill towns aren't there perhaps because of the community spirit within the Asian communities. Which might also explain why Tower Hamlets and Newham are absent.
I never thought they were going to be let back into the party anyway. BJ and his fanatics are trying to reshape the Tories into UKIP or TBP. They will select ERG types to replace those MPs that have had the whip withdrawn. Indeed, if an electoral pact with TBP is in the pipeline, it is not beyond possibility that Farage, Tice and Co. are gifted the seats. The Tories are not a one nation party anymore and that phrase is persistently used to describe politicians who do not share the values of those associated with one nation politics.
The Europhile Headbangers are the ones who have destabilised the Onservative Party.
With them gone, we can settle down to a period of finding something else to fall out about.
The Onservative Party for onanists and monomaniacs?
The One Nation Conservatives seem to have been replaced by the Con Nation Onservatives.
It’s sad to see a decent man rejoining a party that is run by narrow-minded nationalists and led by a mendacious moron.
Anyone who supports Boris is an apologist for his racism.
Does that make everyone who supports Corbyn an anti-Semite? Can you not see how ridiculous this is?
Of course not - but it does require them to overlook, or elide, or otherwise ignore the strain of antisemitism in the party that he evidently tolerates.
In the same way, going in to spin for Boris requires a certain wilful blindness to his glaring mendacity and equally evident fondness for the language of the late imperial period towards its colonial subjects.
As you may have gathered from my other comment I am far from an unqualified fan of Boris but I find this form of arguing specious. I want to leave. Boris wants to leave. Boris wants to shag the other half of London. Do I?
The idea that you agree with anyone on everything is completely for the birds. And just because I want some of the same things as others does not make me an apologist for their other views or actions. Its simply absurd.
It’s sad to see a decent man rejoining a party that is run by narrow-minded nationalists and led by a mendacious moron.
Anyone who supports Boris is an apologist for his racism.
Does that make everyone who supports Corbyn an anti-Semite? Can you not see how ridiculous this is?
When I was having a wobble a few weeks ago and thinking of voting Labour for the first time in my life, I was told with vigour and authority that that's exactly what it would be. I'm over that wobble now, but I have noted that the same ones who assured me that voting Labour would be immoral for that reason, tend not to worry at all about Boris Johnson.
You can have it both or neither, but you can't pick and choose, cos Boris is as bad as Corbyn.
No he isn't. He's dishonest, unreliable, ill-disciplined, immoral in his personal dealings and untrustworthy but he's nowhere near as bad as Corbyn who is most of that list but also thick, economically incompetent and incontinent and a friend of any anti-western terrorist group you care to name.
We can't pick and choose every single characteristic of every politician whose political careers our vote might aid. To try to do so is utterly nonsensical. We vote for the party that we feel broadly will do the most good, for the country, and, importantly, for ourselves. Any vote for human politicians is a compromise, and nobody should be condemned for making that compromise.
It’s sad to see a decent man rejoining a party that is run by narrow-minded nationalists and led by a mendacious moron.
Anyone who supports Boris is an apologist for his racism.
That is outrageous
Indeed for anyone to make that comment about me who has not a racist bone in my body is frankly out of order
If you support Boris, you personally, are an apologist for his racism. Sorry if that upsets you, but it's a choice you need to make. I've seen a lot of people point out on here that supporting Corbyn makes you an apologist for antisemitism. I don't see what the difference is.
How is Boris a racist?
Indeed. It's amazing how many people think that saying -
His statements here seem rather to be satirically suggesting that Blair was the one being racist - in the sense that he enjoyed playing the role of the colonial white male bringing enlightenment to sub-saharan Africa. The use of racist/archaic language is clearly heavily sarcastic. Rather in the vein of those today who criticise white celebrities for being filmed doing charity work in Africa.
I never thought they were going to be let back into the party anyway. BJ and his fanatics are trying to reshape the Tories into UKIP or TBP. They will select ERG types to replace those MPs that have had the whip withdrawn. Indeed, if an electoral pact with TBP is in the pipeline, it is not beyond possibility that Farage, Tice and Co. are gifted the seats. The Tories are not a one nation party anymore and that phrase is persistently used to describe politicians who do not share the values of those associated with one nation politics.
The Europhile Headbangers are the ones who have destabilised the Onservative Party.
With them gone, we can settle down to a period of finding something else to fall out about.
The Onservative Party for onanists and monomaniacs?
The One Nation Conservatives seem to have been replaced by the Con Nation Onservatives.
It’s sad to see a decent man rejoining a party that is run by narrow-minded nationalists and led by a mendacious moron.
Anyone who supports Boris is an apologist for his racism.
That is outrageous
Indeed for anyone to make that comment about me who has not a racist bone in my body is frankly out of order
If you support Boris, you personally, are an apologist for his racism. Sorry if that upsets you, but it's a choice you need to make. I've seen a lot of people point out on here that supporting Corbyn makes you an apologist for antisemitism. I don't see what the difference is.
How is Boris a racist?
Indeed. It's amazing how many people think that saying -
His statements here seem rather to be satirically suggesting that Blair was the one being racist - in the sense that he enjoyed playing the role of the colonial white male bringing enlightenment to sub-saharan Africa. The use of racist/archaic language is clearly heavily sarcastic. Rather in the vein of those today who criticise white celebrities for being filmed doing charity work in Africa.
I don't understand your point. Westminster is our political centre. Certainly MPs, Lords, journalists, presenters and others should not get myopically focused on it as if nothing else matters, but why wouldn't things orbit around it?
It's like London generally - I don't live there, and we shouldnt forget about or neglect the areas that are not in London, but it is the dominant settlement in these islands, so of course it gets more attention.
And your last sentence is at the heart of the reason so many feel left behind
Why should it get more attention than the rest of the country
Er, because the urban area of London takes up almost a fifth of the country's population. This is one of those things like the advisory referendum argument where I don't know why people get so worked up about it. London is huge and important, it gets more attention as a result. Whether the level of attention is still disproportionate to that importance I think is worthy of debate, and I think the answer is probably yes, it does, and the rest of the country, all the constituent parts, need more attention than they get.
But that's not the same as getting angry at there being a lot of focus on London. As I said, I don't live there nor dispute it gets too much attention, but it should get more attention than any other place in these islands because it is so big and important.
It's like being mad at how many MPs it gets compared to other places, and thus more influence.
I live in the Tory shires, I'm no member of the 'metropolitan elite' however it is defined, I'm confident of that, and I don't think it is necessary to take a point about not wishing to be overwhelmed by a focus on London into the unrelated point about being angry that it gets more focus than other places. Those things are not the same.
The increasing attention and direction of investment into the largest urban areas is a worldwide phenomenon which is, as you say, understandable. It is an increasing problem, and yes source of anger, for those outside of that focus (which FWIW includes me) - but few politicians or commentators have devoted a great deal of attention to thinking about it, let alone addressing it.
And as the different example of the US shows, it’s not even a consistent left/right issue:
Kay Burley promoting her early morning show on Sky
'The only show from the heart of Westminster'
And that sums up the metropolian elite in one promotion piece
Is it any wonder there is such anger outside the M25
I don't understand your point. Westminster is our political centre. Certainly MPs, Lords, journalists, presenters and others should not get myopically focused on it as if nothing else matters, but why wouldn't things orbit around it?
It's like London generally - I don't live there, and we shouldnt forget about or neglect the areas that are not in London, but it is the dominant settlement in these islands, so of course it gets more attention.
And your last sentence is at the heart of the reason so many feel left behind
Why should it get more attention than the rest of the country
Most of the resentment directed at London is born of thinly disguised jealousy.
More of it is pity.
The weird obsession you and others on PB have about London indicates otherwise. London is brought up far more frequently by those who live outside it than those of us who live in it.
It’s sad to see a decent man rejoining a party that is run by narrow-minded nationalists and led by a mendacious moron.
Anyone who supports Boris is an apologist for his racism.
Does that make everyone who supports Corbyn an anti-Semite? Can you not see how ridiculous this is?
When I was having a wobble a few weeks ago and thinking of voting Labour for the first time in my life, I was told with vigour and authority that that's exactly what it would be. I'm over that wobble now, but I have noted that the same ones who assured me that voting Labour would be immoral for that reason, tend not to worry at all about Boris Johnson.
You can have it both or neither, but you can't pick and choose, cos Boris is as bad as Corbyn.
No he isn't. He's dishonest, unreliable, ill-disciplined, immoral in his personal dealings and untrustworthy but he's nowhere near as bad as Corbyn who is most of that list but also thick, economically incompetent and incontinent and a friend of any anti-western terrorist group you care to name.
Boris Johnson is the more immediate danger and has in his short period in power launched an assault on democracy. The ability of Leavers to shrug this off is frankly terrifying.
You're being hysterical again Alastair.
He sought to suspend democracy to impose a policy that no one had voted for, as a Prime Minister that no one had voted for leading a government without a majority.
Every word of that is sober fact. Give your head a wobble.
Parliament could have stopped the prorogation before it happened. It chose not to. Parliament could have forced him out of office. It didn't. Parliament passed the Benn Act so this interminable misery goes on even longer. It has succeeded in that appalling objective. The prorogation recalled Parliament in time to force an extension. Parliament did nothing of any note in the additional time that the courts gave it.
Was his prorogation an abuse of his powers? Undoubtedly. Was it counterproductive and unwise? Obviously. Was it a "suspension of democracy"? That is just silly.
It’s sad to see a decent man rejoining a party that is run by narrow-minded nationalists and led by a mendacious moron.
Anyone who supports Boris is an apologist for his racism.
Does that make everyone who supports Corbyn an anti-Semite? Can you not see how ridiculous this is?
When I was having a wobble a few weeks ago and thinking of voting Labour for the first time in my life, I was told with vigour and authority that that's exactly what it would be. I'm over that wobble now, but I have noted that the same ones who assured me that voting Labour would be immoral for that reason, tend not to worry at all about Boris Johnson.
You can have it both or neither, but you can't pick and choose, cos Boris is as bad as Corbyn.
No he isn't. He's dishonest, unreliable, ill-disciplined, immoral in his personal dealings and untrustworthy but he's nowhere near as bad as Corbyn who is most of that list but also thick, economically incompetent and incontinent and a friend of any anti-western terrorist group you care to name.
Boris Johnson is the more immediate danger and has in his short period in power launched an assault on democracy. The ability of Leavers to shrug this off is frankly terrifying.
You're being hysterical again Alastair.
He sought to suspend democracy to impose a policy that no one had voted for, as a Prime Minister that no one had voted for leading a government without a majority.
Every word of that is sober fact. Give your head a wobble.
Parliament could have stopped the prorogation before it happened. It chose not to. Parliament could have forced him out of office. It didn't. Parliament passed the Benn Act so this interminable misery goes on even longer. It has succeeded in that appalling objective. The prorogation recalled Parliament in time to force an extension. Parliament did nothing of any note in the additional time that the courts gave it.
Was his prorogation an abuse of his powers? Undoubtedly? Was it counterproductive and unwise? Obviously. Was it a "suspension of democracy"? That is just silly.
It was literally a suspension of democracy. It was an attempt to stop democratic scrutiny of the executive’s powers.
This is a matter of English, not a matter of debate.
It’s sad to see a decent man rejoining a party that is run by narrow-minded nationalists and led by a mendacious moron.
Anyone who supports Boris is an apologist for his racism.
That is outrageous
Indeed for anyone to make that comment about me who has not a racist bone in my body is frankly out of order
If you support Boris, you personally, are an apologist for his racism. Sorry if that upsets you, but it's a choice you need to make. I've seen a lot of people point out on here that supporting Corbyn makes you an apologist for antisemitism. I don't see what the difference is.
How is Boris a racist?
Indeed. It's amazing how many people think that saying -
His statements here seem rather to be satirically suggesting that Blair was the one being racist - in the sense that he enjoyed playing the role of the colonial white male bringing enlightenment to sub-saharan Africa. The use of racist/archaic language is clearly heavily sarcastic. Rather in the vein of those today who criticise white celebrities for being filmed doing charity work in Africa.
Hopefully in the future you'll develop the comprehension to know for yourself when its true.
I can only hope that posting on here amongst such comprehending minds will elevate me to such an exalted level. Oh curse you, such unfeeling God, that gave me a brain of straw amongst such deities! Curse you, I say!!
[walks to edge of stage, casts eyes down, swoops arm downwards, glances at audience...]
Kay Burley promoting her early morning show on Sky
'The only show from the heart of Westminster'
And that sums up the metropolian elite in one promotion piece
Is it any wonder there is such anger outside the M25
I don't understand your point. Westminster is our political centre. Certainly MPs, Lords, journalists, presenters and others should not get myopically focused on it as if nothing else matters, but why wouldn't things orbit around it?
It's like London generally - I don't live there, and we shouldnt forget about or neglect the areas that are not in London, but it is the dominant settlement in these islands, so of course it gets more attention.
And your last sentence is at the heart of the reason so many feel left behind
Why should it get more attention than the rest of the country
Most of the resentment directed at London is born of thinly disguised jealousy.
More of it is pity.
The weird obsession you and others on PB have about London indicates otherwise. London is brought up far more frequently by those who live outside it than those of us who live in it.
It's a means of tribalising things. I don't see why London needs to be seen as the enemy by those of us outside of it, nor that those not in it should be looked down upon by those within it. It's our capital city, and although a great many capital cities are not as hugely dominant, there are others which are and that's the way our country has developed. It's not to say the balance between London and the rest of the country is perfect, but a hostile 'othering' of the place, or sneering contempt in the other direction, doesn't help anybody and there's no need for it.
Kay Burley promoting her early morning show on Sky
'The only show from the heart of Westminster'
And that sums up the metropolian elite in one promotion piece
Is it any wonder there is such anger outside the M25
I don't understand your point. Westminster is our political centre. Certainly MPs, Lords, journalists, presenters and others should not get myopically focused on it as if nothing else matters, but why wouldn't things orbit around it?
It's like London generally - I don't live there, and we shouldnt forget about or neglect the areas that are not in London, but it is the dominant settlement in these islands, so of course it gets more attention.
And your last sentence is at the heart of the reason so many feel left behind
Why should it get more attention than the rest of the country
Most of the resentment directed at London is born of thinly disguised jealousy.
More of it is pity.
The weird obsession you and others on PB have about London indicates otherwise. London is brought up far more frequently by those who live outside it than those of us who live in it.
Plenty of us were born outside London, worked and lived inside, have left it to work outside - and don't miss it one little bit.
Compared to the quality of life I now have, yes, I pity Londoners.
Kay Burley promoting her early morning show on Sky
'The only show from the heart of Westminster'
And that sums up the metropolian elite in one promotion piece
Is it any wonder there is such anger outside the M25
I don't understand your point. Westminster is our political centre. Certainly MPs, Lords, journalists, presenters and others should not get myopically focused on it as if nothing else matters, but why wouldn't things orbit around it?
It's like London generally - I don't live there, and we shouldnt forget about or neglect the areas that are not in London, but it is the dominant settlement in these islands, so of course it gets more attention.
And your last sentence is at the heart of the reason so many feel left behind
Why should it get more attention than the rest of the country
Most of the resentment directed at London is born of thinly disguised jealousy.
More of it is pity.
The weird obsession you and others on PB have about London indicates otherwise. London is brought up far more frequently by those who live outside it than those of us who live in it.
Plenty of us were born outside London, worked and lived inside, have left it to work outside - and don't miss it one little bit.
Compared to the quality of life I now have, yes, I pity Londoners.
8 tonnes of cocaine a year. As much as the 3 largest consuming cities in Europe put together. It's literally mind blowing. No wonder there are so many remainers.
Comments
Indeed for anyone to make that comment about me who has not a racist bone in my body is frankly out of order
Sorry if that upsets you, but it's a choice you need to make. I've seen a lot of people point out on here that supporting Corbyn makes you an apologist for antisemitism. I don't see what the difference is.
I'm over that wobble now, but I have noted that the same ones who assured me that voting Labour would be immoral for that reason, tend not to worry at all about Boris Johnson.
You can have it both or neither, but you can't pick and choose, cos Boris is as bad as Corbyn.
There's no Pullitzers awaiting for any of them.
I don't propose to walk yet another person through this because it's really fucking wearying to have to explain that certain racist words are racist.
If you intend to be obtuse, don't, I won't feed it.
Though Mansfield rates lower than Ashfield, Bassetlaw and Bolsover - a bit of nice countryside and fresh air is clearly a boost to well being.
One PB herd disappears and another one always comes along to replace it. Lots of the same folk mind.
I've lived in North Devon and that one rings very true to me.
"...It is said that the Queen has come to love the Commonwealth, partly because it supplies her with regular cheering crowds of flag-waving piccaninnies; and one can imagine that Blair, twice victor abroad but enmired at home, is similarly seduced by foreign politeness. They say he is shortly off to the Congo. No doubt the AK47s will fall silent, and the pangas will stop their hacking of human flesh, and the tribal warriors will all break out in watermelon smiles to see the big white chief touch down in his big white British taxpayer-funded bird..."
- makes you racist. I'm amazed.
https://twitter.com/cspan/status/1187098428737753091?s=19
People who wouldn't vote in a GE perhaps ?
Or would many of them also be in the 23% as they wouldn't want the disruption something they're not interested in brings.
'The only show from the heart of Westminster'
And that sums up the metropolian elite in one promotion piece
Is it any wonder there is such anger outside the M25
He might yet be proven right, but I should think those whose priority is Brexit rather than a Tory government must be frustrated as the former is almost within reach, and he seems to be doing what he can to not go for it, so that he can justify seeking the latter.
It's like London generally - I don't live there, and we shouldnt forget about or neglect the areas that are not in London, but it is the dominant settlement in these islands, so of course it gets more attention.
Even Corby knows, it is far easier to take over an existing party than start a new one from scratch.
"Rees-Mogg was born in Hammersmith, London, and educated at Eton College. He then studied History at Trinity College, Oxford, and was President of the Oxford University Conservative Association. He worked in the City of London for Lloyd George Management until 2007, then co-founded a hedge fund management business Somerset Capital Management LLP. He has amassed a significant fortune: his estimated net worth in 2016 was from £55 million to (including his wife's prospects) £150 million"
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7439103/Society-writer-William-Cash-reveals-Prime-Minister-agreed-let-raise-love-child.html
https://twitter.com/sahilkapur/status/1186253985948356609?s=19
I assume he also took a conscious decision to walk away from being a Goth too.
Why should it get more attention than the rest of the country
Uncomfortable truths are uncomfortable.
As to where you prefer to live that's your choice and it would be a boring world if we all wanted the same things.
I will point out that the cost of living on the edge of London with instant access to the countryside is significantly higher than it is in North Nottinghamshire and beyond the means of most people unless they were fortunate enough to buy property when prices were much lower.
In any case 'edge of London with instant access to the countryside' isn't a feature of those parts of London which feature at the bottom of the well being list.
With them gone, we can settle down to a period of finding something else to fall out about.
In the same way, going in to spin for Boris requires a certain wilful blindness to his glaring mendacity and equally evident fondness for the language of the late imperial period towards its colonial subjects.
But that's not the same as getting angry at there being a lot of focus on London. As I said, I don't live there nor dispute it gets too much attention, but it should get more attention than any other place in these islands because it is so big and important.
It's like being mad at how many MPs it gets compared to other places, and thus more influence.
I live in the Tory shires, I'm no member of the 'metropolitan elite' however it is defined, I'm confident of that, and I don't think it is necessary to take a point about not wishing to be overwhelmed by a focus on London into the unrelated point about being angry that it gets more focus than other places. Those things are not the same.
I hope everyone, and I mean everyone has a pleasant night
And just for the record while HYUFD and I are in the conservative party we disagree more than we agree as can be evidenced in our posts over the last 12 months
Goodnight
https://youtu.be/XkhvJxfftp8
Every word of that is sober fact. Give your head a wobble.
Also the deprived Lancashire mill towns aren't there perhaps because of the community spirit within the Asian communities. Which might also explain why Tower Hamlets and Newham are absent.
The idea that you agree with anyone on everything is completely for the birds. And just because I want some of the same things as others does not make me an apologist for their other views or actions. Its simply absurd.
This isn't me saying Boris isn't racist by the way. But the incendiary language in the passage above doesn't confirm it.
https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1187129909270835202?s=19
It is an increasing problem, and yes source of anger, for those outside of that focus (which FWIW includes me) - but few politicians or commentators have devoted a great deal of attention to thinking about it, let alone addressing it.
And as the different example of the US shows, it’s not even a consistent left/right issue:
Why Democrats Don’t Have a Plan to Save ‘Left-Behind’ America
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/10/23/democrats-regional-inequality-plan-229869
Was his prorogation an abuse of his powers? Undoubtedly. Was it counterproductive and unwise? Obviously. Was it a "suspension of democracy"? That is just silly.
This is a matter of English, not a matter of debate.
[walks to edge of stage, casts eyes down, swoops arm downwards, glances at audience...]
Perhaps on this issue I'm just a bit naiive.
Pleasant dreams to all.
Compared to the quality of life I now have, yes, I pity Londoners.
8 tonnes of cocaine a year. As much as the 3 largest consuming cities in Europe put together. It's literally mind blowing. No wonder there are so many remainers.