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  • SunnyJimSunnyJim Posts: 1,106

    Money for a December election, now a best-priced 6/5 with Bet365 (hmm!).

    The SNP are clearly chomping at the bit.

    The Tories want it.

    I can't see why the LD's wouldn't want it.

    It is just the Labour and independent remainers who are holding out.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480
    SunnyJim said:


    What planet are you on. He just dished Corbyn comprehensively

    Corbyn's head will be spinning after that.

    His IRA salvo was there for the 6pm news soundbite.
    Well, it worked so well in GE 2017...
  • Any word from Thicky Nicky Mor(g)on today?
  • blueblueblueblue Posts: 875
    Noo said:

    Whisper it, because it doesn't matter, but Boris is a bit crap at PMQs.

    He's good at smashing Corbyn, and that's all that matters! :smile:
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947
    HYUFD said:

    Macron will veto further extension unless the Commons either votes for the Withdrawal Agreement legislation by 31st October or MPs vote for a general election or EUref2 or revoke instead

    He won't. Not if it really came down to it.

    Where has all our judgement gone?
    About things passing
    Where has all our judgement gone?
    About the EU
    Where has all our judgement gone?
    Seem to have lost it, everyone
    When will we ever learn?
    When will we EVER learn?
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:

    Apparently Dom said in the meeting that France would veto the extension

    Macron will veto further extension unless the Commons either votes for the Withdrawal Agreement legislation by 31st October or MPs vote for a general election or EUref2 or revoke instead
    And Bozo will resign rather than seek an A50 extension. We know that because you told us so repeatedly over the past few weeks.
    Boris did not seek it, he sent an unsigned copy of the Benn Act to the EU and a signed letter opposing further extension.

    It was Parliament which sought an A50 extension by voting for the Benn Act
    It was undignified and childish. Par for the course for this massively un-Primeministerial buffoon
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380
    blueblue said:

    Noo said:

    Whisper it, because it doesn't matter, but Boris is a bit crap at PMQs.

    He's good at smashing Corbyn, and that's all that matters! :smile:
    Well, we all know Corbyn is also crap at PMQs.
  • nunuonenunuone Posts: 1,138
    kinabalu said:

    nunuone said:

    The headlines will be "Boris calls Corbyn IRA supporrer".

    Until superseded by "Ant and Dec ate my goldfish".
    Labour MPs clutching their pearls will keep it in the news, just like the "outrage' over the term Surrender Act
  • SunnyJim said:

    Money for a December election, now a best-priced 6/5 with Bet365 (hmm!).

    The SNP are clearly chomping at the bit.

    The Tories want it.

    I can't see why the LD's wouldn't want it.

    It is just the Labour and independent remainers who are holding out.
    Corbyn wants it so I would suggest those mps who are under real threat, including labour mps in leave areas, are the ones so desperate to stop it
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,892
    The Benn Act had two purposes.

    One legal - to get an extension.

    Two political - to humiliate the PM.

    It's succeeded in the legal sense and failed in the political sense.
  • nunuonenunuone Posts: 1,138
    Horrific news out of Essex.

    The lorry came out of RoI , thanks to no checks on the border.

    Thanks E.U!
  • SunnyJimSunnyJim Posts: 1,106
    Foxy said:


    Well, it worked so well in GE 2017...

    The appalling campaign by May did the damage in '17 along with a wave of support for Corbyn on the back of a projection that he would block Brexit.

    The next election will be very different I expect.

    The Tory campaign will be nothing like the last and Remainers know their hope is with the LD's.

  • nunuone said:

    Horrific news out of Essex.

    The lorry came out of RoI , thanks to no checks on the border.

    Thanks E.U!

    No, thanks to the Tories hostile environment and the hate whipped up against vulnerable migrants and refugees by the right wing press and the political right wing.
  • SunnyJimSunnyJim Posts: 1,106


    No, thanks to the Tories hostile environment and the hate whipped up against vulnerable migrants and refugees by the right wing press and the political right wing.

    I can't believe you have just written that.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,892
    edited October 2019
    Tbh The Benn Act probably helped the PM secure the deal. It forced him to a corner where he had to yield an economic Ireland in order to obviate the backstop so that domestic politics could move on and his "Die in a ditch" pledge became yesterday's chip wrappers.
  • In my lifelong capacity as a "white man" I was tempted to vote for Swinson's party at the next election but if she's going to mark me out as part of an undesirable demographic I may have to change my mind.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,401
    https://twitter.com/JasonGroves1/status/1186971512785506305

    A train just left St Pancras for Siberia
  • nunuone said:

    Horrific news out of Essex.

    The lorry came out of RoI , thanks to no checks on the border.

    Thanks E.U!

    No, thanks to the Tories hostile environment and the hate whipped up against vulnerable migrants and refugees by the right wing press and the political right wing.
    First prize for the most fuckwitted statement of the day.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,276
    edited October 2019
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,892
    edited October 2019

    nunuone said:

    Horrific news out of Essex.

    The lorry came out of RoI , thanks to no checks on the border.

    Thanks E.U!

    No, thanks to the Tories hostile environment and the hate whipped up against vulnerable migrants and refugees by the right wing press and the political right wing.
    First prize for the most fuckwitted statement of the day.
    Beating '"wrecking" is a pejorative term' by half a furlong.
  • nunuonenunuone Posts: 1,138

    nunuone said:

    Horrific news out of Essex.

    The lorry came out of RoI , thanks to no checks on the border.

    Thanks E.U!

    No, thanks to the Tories hostile environment and the hate whipped up against vulnerable migrants and refugees by the right wing press and the political right wing.
    Rubbish. What are we supposed to do take every single soul who want to come here.
  • Why is Co Joburn interrupting PMQs on the PMQs tv show?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,794
    nunuone said:

    Horrific news out of Essex.

    The lorry came out of RoI , thanks to no checks on the border.

    Thanks E.U!

    Oh, I'm sorry. I thought the last three years of Conservative negotiations insisted that an open unchecked border would remain between the Republic (part of the EU) and Northern Ireland (part of the UK) . I must have been mistaken and you are now going to instal border checks to prevent this atrocity. Silly me, eh?
  • SunnyJim said:


    No, thanks to the Tories hostile environment and the hate whipped up against vulnerable migrants and refugees by the right wing press and the political right wing.

    I can't believe you have just written that.

    So you don't think hostility to migrants and refugees, some of which drove the brexit vote (remember the posters and headlines), forces desperate people to seek desperate means to enter the country to be safe. After all, unlike other European nations, we don't go out of our way to help and do our duty.

    I certainly do and I am angry at the situation that forces men, women and children to live in camps in North France, get on rubber dinghy's to cross the channel and risk their lives inside trucks when the British government could do the honourable thing, take ownership, and offer safe passage and routes to the UK for these vulnerable people.
  • nunuone said:

    Horrific news out of Essex.

    The lorry came out of RoI , thanks to no checks on the border.

    Thanks E.U!

    No, thanks to the Tories hostile environment and the hate whipped up against vulnerable migrants and refugees by the right wing press and the political right wing.
    That is just plain bad taste and unwarranted.

    That kind of language does you no favours and you should have more respect for those who have perished than to try to make cheap political points
  • In my lifelong capacity as a "white man" I was tempted to vote for Swinson's party at the next election but if she's going to mark me out as part of an undesirable demographic I may have to change my mind.

    What's that prize fool said this time ?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480
    nunuone said:

    kinabalu said:

    nunuone said:

    The headlines will be "Boris calls Corbyn IRA supporrer".

    Until superseded by "Ant and Dec ate my goldfish".
    Labour MPs clutching their pearls will keep it in the news, just like the "outrage' over the term Surrender Act
    The funny thing with BoZo's use of the term Surrender Act is that now that he has complied with it he has clearly surrendered. It has turned round and bit him on his arse :)
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,477
    The PB Tories in full sycophantic flow really are something to behold.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,477
    SunnyJim said:

    Money for a December election, now a best-priced 6/5 with Bet365 (hmm!).

    The SNP are clearly chomping at the bit.

    The Tories want it.

    I can't see why the LD's wouldn't want it.

    It is just the Labour and independent remainers who are holding out.
    Pile in then and take the generous odds available.
  • SunnyJimSunnyJim Posts: 1,106
    Foxy said:


    The funny thing with BoZo's use of the term Surrender Act is that now that he has complied with it he has clearly surrendered. It has turned round and bit him on his arse :)

    Not according to the polls.
  • https://twitter.com/JasonGroves1/status/1186971512785506305

    A train just left St Pancras for Siberia

    Luton Airport Parkway?


  • nunuone said:

    Horrific news out of Essex.

    The lorry came out of RoI , thanks to no checks on the border.

    Thanks E.U!

    No, thanks to the Tories hostile environment and the hate whipped up against vulnerable migrants and refugees by the right wing press and the political right wing.
    That is just plain bad taste and unwarranted.

    That kind of language does you no favours and you should have more respect for those who have perished than to try to make cheap political points
    It is neither.

    This will continue to happen, and people will wring their hands and say its awful (which indeed it is), but until we do something to help asylum seekers and migrants come to the UK rather than put barriers in the way then this sort of thing is inevitable.

    Still, get cranky with the point I made rather than the system that precipitated it why not.
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380

    The PB Tories in full sycophantic flow really are something to behold.

    The cult metaphorically fellating their Dear Leader for all their worth.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    nunuone said:

    Horrific news out of Essex.

    The lorry came out of RoI , thanks to no checks on the border.

    Thanks E.U!

    No - I think you’ll find that’s “thanks Common Travel Area and Good Friday Agreement!”


  • nunuone said:

    Horrific news out of Essex.

    The lorry came out of RoI , thanks to no checks on the border.

    Thanks E.U!

    No, thanks to the Tories hostile environment and the hate whipped up against vulnerable migrants and refugees by the right wing press and the political right wing.
    That is just plain bad taste and unwarranted.

    That kind of language does you no favours and you should have more respect for those who have perished than to try to make cheap political points
    It is neither.

    This will continue to happen, and people will wring their hands and say its awful (which indeed it is), but until we do something to help asylum seekers and migrants come to the UK rather than put barriers in the way then this sort of thing is inevitable.

    Still, get cranky with the point I made rather than the system that precipitated it why not.
    You have no respect to those who have perished by making cheap political points at this time
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480

    In my lifelong capacity as a "white man" I was tempted to vote for Swinson's party at the next election but if she's going to mark me out as part of an undesirable demographic I may have to change my mind.

    As a fellow "white man" I am completely comfortable with her statement. There is nothing wrong with white men holding powerful positions, but having a monopoly of those positions is another thing entirely.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    ICM poll - fieldwork a bit old -

    CON: 35%
    LAB: 29%
    LDM: 16%
    BXP: 11%
    GRN: 4%
    SNP: 3%
    UKI: 1%
    OTH: 1%

    (ICM, 4-7 Oct)
  • In my lifelong capacity as a "white man" I was tempted to vote for Swinson's party at the next election but if she's going to mark me out as part of an undesirable demographic I may have to change my mind.

    What's that prize fool said this time ?
    Abbott, Lammy and Patel should negotiate instead of white people
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    HYUFD said:
    Banks is implicitly confirming BXP will not stand everywhere, thus making the opinion polls even harder to interpret.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,794

    SunnyJim said:


    No, thanks to the Tories hostile environment and the hate whipped up against vulnerable migrants and refugees by the right wing press and the political right wing.

    I can't believe you have just written that.

    So you don't think hostility to migrants and refugees, some of which drove the brexit vote (remember the posters and headlines), forces desperate people to seek desperate means to enter the country to be safe. After all, unlike other European nations, we don't go out of our way to help and do our duty.

    I certainly do and I am angry at the situation that forces men, women and children to live in camps in North France, get on rubber dinghy's to cross the channel and risk their lives inside trucks when the British government could do the honourable thing, take ownership, and offer safe passage and routes to the UK for these vulnerable people.
    Whilst I agree that hostility to migrants and refugees is bad, you cannot blame the UK for the Middle East conflicts and African deprivation that drives migration from the South and East into the EU and thence to UK. It speaks well of us that we are willing to help some, but it is implausible to believe that we can or will help all, so there will be cases where some wish to come but are prevented. Given finite resources, what else would you suggest?
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380



    nunuone said:

    Horrific news out of Essex.

    The lorry came out of RoI , thanks to no checks on the border.

    Thanks E.U!

    No, thanks to the Tories hostile environment and the hate whipped up against vulnerable migrants and refugees by the right wing press and the political right wing.
    That is just plain bad taste and unwarranted.

    That kind of language does you no favours and you should have more respect for those who have perished than to try to make cheap political points
    It is neither.

    This will continue to happen, and people will wring their hands and say its awful (which indeed it is), but until we do something to help asylum seekers and migrants come to the UK rather than put barriers in the way then this sort of thing is inevitable.

    Still, get cranky with the point I made rather than the system that precipitated it why not.
    You have no respect to those who have perished by making cheap political points at this time
    Out of interest, why are you picking up this cheap political point and saying nothing about the cheap political point that preceded it? Is it because political points are only cheap when they criticise your side of the aisle?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,749
    edited October 2019

    HYUFD said:
    Banks is implicitly confirming BXP will not stand everywhere, thus making the opinion polls even harder to interpret.
    Banks has thrown his support behind Boris and the deal so that is not a surprising
  • In my lifelong capacity as a "white man" I was tempted to vote for Swinson's party at the next election but if she's going to mark me out as part of an undesirable demographic I may have to change my mind.

    Can you not see the difference between it being undesirable for one group to have all six people at a meeting vs one individual.

    There is nothing wrong with being a white man.

    There is something wrong if only white men are involved in decision making.

    How would you feel if the six people deciding the countrys fate were six young black women? Wouldnt that be somewhat uncomfortable and make you wonder why men werent involved?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited October 2019

    In my lifelong capacity as a "white man" I was tempted to vote for Swinson's party at the next election but if she's going to mark me out as part of an undesirable demographic I may have to change my mind.

    What's that prize fool said this time ?
    Abbott, Lammy and Patel should negotiate instead of white people
    Whoah! I believe Lammy identifies as a cis male like the current six
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380
    viewcode said:

    SunnyJim said:


    No, thanks to the Tories hostile environment and the hate whipped up against vulnerable migrants and refugees by the right wing press and the political right wing.

    I can't believe you have just written that.

    So you don't think hostility to migrants and refugees, some of which drove the brexit vote (remember the posters and headlines), forces desperate people to seek desperate means to enter the country to be safe. After all, unlike other European nations, we don't go out of our way to help and do our duty.

    I certainly do and I am angry at the situation that forces men, women and children to live in camps in North France, get on rubber dinghy's to cross the channel and risk their lives inside trucks when the British government could do the honourable thing, take ownership, and offer safe passage and routes to the UK for these vulnerable people.
    Whilst I agree that hostility to migrants and refugees is bad, you cannot blame the UK for the Middle East conflicts and African deprivation that drives migration from the South and East into the EU and thence to UK. It speaks well of us that we are willing to help some, but it is implausible to believe that we can or will help all, so there will be cases where some wish to come but are prevented. Given finite resources, what else would you suggest?
    We certainly can take part of the blame for some of the problems in some parts of the world. In instability in Syria flows in part from the inferno we started in Iraq. For the most recent wave of refugees -- peaking a few years ago -- I would hand a large share of the immediate blame to Russia, and even more so, the islamofascist cult of Daesh. But none of that absolves the UK of its earlier crimes.
  • Noo said:



    nunuone said:

    Horrific news out of Essex.

    The lorry came out of RoI , thanks to no checks on the border.

    Thanks E.U!

    No, thanks to the Tories hostile environment and the hate whipped up against vulnerable migrants and refugees by the right wing press and the political right wing.
    That is just plain bad taste and unwarranted.

    That kind of language does you no favours and you should have more respect for those who have perished than to try to make cheap political points
    It is neither.

    This will continue to happen, and people will wring their hands and say its awful (which indeed it is), but until we do something to help asylum seekers and migrants come to the UK rather than put barriers in the way then this sort of thing is inevitable.

    Still, get cranky with the point I made rather than the system that precipitated it why not.
    You have no respect to those who have perished by making cheap political points at this time
    Out of interest, why are you picking up this cheap political point and saying nothing about the cheap political point that preceded it? Is it because political points are only cheap when they criticise your side of the aisle?
    No - this is a tragedy that calls for respect to those who have perished

    Politics can come later
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621

    nunuone said:

    Horrific news out of Essex.

    The lorry came out of RoI , thanks to no checks on the border.

    Thanks E.U!

    No, thanks to the Tories hostile environment and the hate whipped up against vulnerable migrants and refugees by the right wing press and the political right wing.
    First prize for the most fuckwitted statement of the day.
    Yes, and second prize goes to the one which preceded it.
  • HYUFD said:
    Banks is implicitly confirming BXP will not stand everywhere, thus making the opinion polls even harder to interpret.
    He has nothing to do with BXP.
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    Pulpstar said:

    The Benn Act had two purposes.

    One legal - to get an extension.

    Two political - to humiliate the PM.

    It's succeeded in the legal sense and failed in the political sense.

    Well, we haven't yet secured an extension. The law is still that we leave on 31st October, so the jury is still out on the first. I'd suggest that we'll only be certain on the second by the end of November.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480
    I see that BoZo is demonstrating his usual grasp of detail:

    https://twitter.com/evolvepolitics/status/1186974914957512707?s=19
  • In my lifelong capacity as a "white man" I was tempted to vote for Swinson's party at the next election but if she's going to mark me out as part of an undesirable demographic I may have to change my mind.

    What's that prize fool said this time ?
    Abbott, Lammy and Patel should negotiate instead of white people
    Oh dear me. She really is a political lightweight.

    I'm sure there is a good point to be made about diverse teams in negotiations. It's clear she's not adept at making it.
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679
    DavidL said:

    The problem with this sort of analysis is that it massively overstates the impact of Brexit. The sad truth, despite all the sound, fury and division of the last 3 years is that we will barely notice.

    So what will Britain look like if it achieves Brexit (and its still an if)? Pretty much as it is now. 115 pages of legislation sounds significant but in fact all it is really doing is ensuring that our current laws continue as they do now with UK institutions taking the place of EU ones where necessary. Neither the structure nor the substance of our regulation is being changed.

    If we achieve Brexit we will also achieve a FTA with the EU. Nothing else makes sense for either party. There will be no tariffs. Will we be in a CU with the EU? Possibly, but probably not. Will there be any difference in our travel plans? Almost certainly not. Why would countries that rely so heavily on tourism want to discourage trade? It will be slightly harder for EU citizens to come here to work and visa versa but only slightly, almost certainly nowhere near as hard as we find it to get to America or for Americans to come and work in London (which, with the right skills, is not very hard at all).

    No doubt economic models will tell us that the economy is a percent or so smaller than it might have been but as the comparator does not exist in the real world none of us will really notice that either.

    In some areas, such as Financial Services, regulation will remain equivalent. In others there might be a slight drift but the scope of that will be fixed by the FTA.

    In short I see a world where absolutely none of the doom prophecies of remainers have come true and most of the fantasies of the leavers have come to naught as well. Our politicians will be a little more accountable for what they do. They will spend a little less time in Brussels although they will go often enough. They will also spend more time in the wider world with which we will be more engaged, not less. My guess is that within 5 years we will wonder what the hell all the fuss was about.

    That's all true. The EU has its uses but it has never made that much difference. That was the real dishonesty of the bus. The figure was irrelevant whether it was accurate or not. The National Health Service is a huge chunk of government spending and is a big political issue. EU membership fees are trivial and have no bearing on funding of the NHS one way or the other.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    HYUFD said:
    Banks is implicitly confirming BXP will not stand everywhere, thus making the opinion polls even harder to interpret.
    He has nothing to do with BXP.
    Banks is Nigel Farage's chief cheque-signer, and is thus linked to BXP.
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380

    Noo said:



    nunuone said:

    Horrific news out of Essex.

    The lorry came out of RoI , thanks to no checks on the border.

    Thanks E.U!

    No, thanks to the Tories hostile environment and the hate whipped up against vulnerable migrants and refugees by the right wing press and the political right wing.
    That is just plain bad taste and unwarranted.

    That kind of language does you no favours and you should have more respect for those who have perished than to try to make cheap political points
    It is neither.

    This will continue to happen, and people will wring their hands and say its awful (which indeed it is), but until we do something to help asylum seekers and migrants come to the UK rather than put barriers in the way then this sort of thing is inevitable.

    Still, get cranky with the point I made rather than the system that precipitated it why not.
    You have no respect to those who have perished by making cheap political points at this time
    Out of interest, why are you picking up this cheap political point and saying nothing about the cheap political point that preceded it? Is it because political points are only cheap when they criticise your side of the aisle?
    No - this is a tragedy that calls for respect to those who have perished

    Politics can come later
    Your choice to condemn one statement and not the other was a political choice. You can see all the right-wing and pro-Brexit folk did the same.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,320

    SunnyJim said:

    Scott_P said:

    Apparently Dom said in the meeting that France would veto the extension

    Where did that come from?
    Watch Macron, hes on a journey
    In what sense? Do you think he's becoming a Eurosceptic?
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679
    blueblue said:

    Noo said:

    Whisper it, because it doesn't matter, but Boris is a bit crap at PMQs.

    He's good at smashing Corbyn, and that's all that matters! :smile:
    Really? Their encounters always look to me like a rude teenager being told off by a grown up.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    In my lifelong capacity as a "white man" I was tempted to vote for Swinson's party at the next election but if she's going to mark me out as part of an undesirable demographic I may have to change my mind.

    Can you not see the difference between it being undesirable for one group to have all six people at a meeting vs one individual.

    There is nothing wrong with being a white man.

    There is something wrong if only white men are involved in decision making.

    How would you feel if the six people deciding the countrys fate were six young black women? Wouldnt that be somewhat uncomfortable and make you wonder why men werent involved?
    Not if they were PM, Loto and their advisors
  • I say... there seems to be a new thread.
  • HYUFD said:
    Banks is implicitly confirming BXP will not stand everywhere, thus making the opinion polls even harder to interpret.
    He has nothing to do with BXP.
    Banks is Nigel Farage's chief cheque-signer, and is thus linked to BXP.
    They have fallen out. He has not funded BXP.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,358
    Pulpstar said:

    The Benn Act had two purposes.

    One legal - to get an extension.

    Two political - to humiliate the PM.

    It's succeeded in the legal sense and failed in the political sense.

    In short - it has failed.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,077

    Pulpstar said:

    The Benn Act had two purposes.

    One legal - to get an extension.

    Two political - to humiliate the PM.

    It's succeeded in the legal sense and failed in the political sense.

    Well, we haven't yet secured an extension. The law is still that we leave on 31st October, so the jury is still out on the first. I'd suggest that we'll only be certain on the second by the end of November.
    The political element was removed when Boris pulled a deal from somewhere.

  • Foxy said:

    In my lifelong capacity as a "white man" I was tempted to vote for Swinson's party at the next election but if she's going to mark me out as part of an undesirable demographic I may have to change my mind.

    As a fellow "white man" I am completely comfortable with her statement. There is nothing wrong with white men holding powerful positions, but having a monopoly of those positions is another thing entirely.
    Sound the call for freedom boys
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480
    More errors of fact from BoZo. Does he understand his own Deal?

    https://twitter.com/adampayne26/status/1186965006530809856?s=19
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    edited October 2019

    In my lifelong capacity as a "white man" I was tempted to vote for Swinson's party at the next election but if she's going to mark me out as part of an undesirable demographic I may have to change my mind.

    What's that prize fool said this time ?
    Abbott, Lammy and Patel should negotiate instead of white people
    Oh dear me. She really is a political lightweight.

    I'm sure there is a good point to be made about diverse teams in negotiations. It's clear she's not adept at making it.
    A better way of putting it might have been If Parliament reflected the population, the probability of the composition of that group happening by chance would be around 1.5%..

    The probability would actually be around 0.7%, but I was being generous to entrenched male privilege. :smile:
  • viewcode said:

    SunnyJim said:


    No, thanks to the Tories hostile environment and the hate whipped up against vulnerable migrants and refugees by the right wing press and the political right wing.

    I can't believe you have just written that.

    So you don't think hostility to migrants and refugees, some of which drove the brexit vote (remember the posters and headlines), forces desperate people to seek desperate means to enter the country to be safe. After all, unlike other European nations, we don't go out of our way to help and do our duty.

    I certainly do and I am angry at the situation that forces men, women and children to live in camps in North France, get on rubber dinghy's to cross the channel and risk their lives inside trucks when the British government could do the honourable thing, take ownership, and offer safe passage and routes to the UK for these vulnerable people.
    Whilst I agree that hostility to migrants and refugees is bad, you cannot blame the UK for the Middle East conflicts and African deprivation that drives migration from the South and East into the EU and thence to UK. It speaks well of us that we are willing to help some, but it is implausible to believe that we can or will help all, so there will be cases where some wish to come but are prevented. Given finite resources, what else would you suggest?
    But I do think the UK is, in part, responsible for the situation. The ill fated war in Libya. Afghanistan and Iraq. All have played their part and our interventions have not helped. Of coursde, as someone else says, there are other players too. The US, the Russians, Al Qaeda, Daesh, Iran v Saudi hegemony and so on impacting on the middle east. Africa is slightly different as the migrants are clearly more economic. But the UK has been a contributor to the problem and is a part of the solution. The number of refugees we take is pitifully low in comparison to other nations and, it is not only that, it is very difficult for genuine refugees to get to the UK. We need to help these people not stigmatise them.
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    Foxy said:

    I see that BoZo is demonstrating his usual grasp of detail:

    https://twitter.com/evolvepolitics/status/1186974914957512707?s=19

    Theresa Villiers makes the tea. Obviously.
  • Noo said:

    Noo said:



    nunuone said:

    Horrific news out of Essex.

    The lorry came out of RoI , thanks to no checks on the border.

    Thanks E.U!

    No, thanks to the Tories hostile environment and the hate whipped up against vulnerable migrants and refugees by the right wing press and the political right wing.
    That is just plain bad taste and unwarranted.

    That kind of language does you no favours and you should have more respect for those who have perished than to try to make cheap political points
    It is neither.

    This will continue to happen, and people will wring their hands and say its awful (which indeed it is), but until we do something to help asylum seekers and migrants come to the UK rather than put barriers in the way then this sort of thing is inevitable.

    Still, get cranky with the point I made rather than the system that precipitated it why not.
    You have no respect to those who have perished by making cheap political points at this time
    Out of interest, why are you picking up this cheap political point and saying nothing about the cheap political point that preceded it? Is it because political points are only cheap when they criticise your side of the aisle?
    No - this is a tragedy that calls for respect to those who have perished

    Politics can come later
    Your choice to condemn one statement and not the other was a political choice. You can see all the right-wing and pro-Brexit folk did the same.
    To be honest I did not notice the first starement and that was unacceptable as well

    It does not change my mind that it is just wrong to make a cheap political point when these poor people are still lying dead in a container in Essex

    The politics is for another day
  • eekeek Posts: 28,077
    edited October 2019
    Anorak said:

    nunuone said:

    Horrific news out of Essex.

    The lorry came out of RoI , thanks to no checks on the border.

    Thanks E.U!

    No, thanks to the Tories hostile environment and the hate whipped up against vulnerable migrants and refugees by the right wing press and the political right wing.
    First prize for the most fuckwitted statement of the day.
    Yes, and second prize goes to the one which preceded it.
    I expect the lorry never left the dock side of Dublin - it arrived from France, stayed dockside to avoid being inspected and then took the first ferry to Holyhead. And we don't check ferries from Dublin at Holyhead as supposedly everything is coming from within Ireland.

    I suspect this route and that flaw in Dublin has been used for years and it's only been discovered today.
  • Foxy said:

    More errors of fact from BoZo. Does he understand his own Deal?

    https://twitter.com/adampayne26/status/1186965006530809856?s=19

    It is not an error of fact, it is a deliberate alternative fact. And 35% of the country will gladly let him get away with it. Pathetic that they cheer the liar on.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,257
    edited October 2019

    https://twitter.com/JasonGroves1/status/1186971512785506305

    A train just left St Pancras for Siberia

    Luton Airport Parkway?
    I have just arrived back in London from Luton Airport Parkway.

    There are delays on the line due to a broken rail, so perhaps they are where I was: stuck on a stopped train in Cricklewood.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,892
    edited October 2019
    Nigelb said:

    In my lifelong capacity as a "white man" I was tempted to vote for Swinson's party at the next election but if she's going to mark me out as part of an undesirable demographic I may have to change my mind.

    What's that prize fool said this time ?
    Abbott, Lammy and Patel should negotiate instead of white people
    Oh dear me. She really is a political lightweight.

    I'm sure there is a good point to be made about diverse teams in negotiations. It's clear she's not adept at making it.
    A better way of putting it might have been If Parliament reflected the population, the probability of the composition of that group happening by chance would be around 1.5%..

    The probability would actually be around 0.7%, but I was being generous to entrenched male privilege. :smile:
    I think your numbers are way off.

    30.2 % probability for all 6 to be white.

    0.4% probability for all 6 to be white males.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,892
    edited October 2019
    Tusk is clearly recommending the 31st January.

    That is the 'UK request'. Note Tusk has used the word "UK" not "Prime Minister" or "Parliament" - he's staying studiously neutral.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,257
    Swinson’s “six white males” is a gaffe.

    I hope there is more to her campaign than “Labour are evil Brexiters”, because that won’t be enough.
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143

    DavidL said:

    The problem with this sort of analysis is that it massively overstates the impact of Brexit. The sad truth, despite all the sound, fury and division of the last 3 years is that we will barely notice.

    ... Paragraphs of complacency and lack of empathy ...

    In short I see a world where absolutely none of the doom prophecies of remainers have come true and most of the fantasies of the leavers have come to naught as well. Our politicians will be a little more accountable for what they do. They will spend a little less time in Brussels although they will go often enough. They will also spend more time in the wider world with which we will be more engaged, not less. My guess is that within 5 years we will wonder what the hell all the fuss was about.

    That's all true. The EU has its uses but it has never made that much difference. That was the real dishonesty of the bus. The figure was irrelevant whether it was accurate or not. The National Health Service is a huge chunk of government spending and is a big political issue. EU membership fees are trivial and have no bearing on funding of the NHS one way or the other.
    I think it's true for the majority of people - ie those who don't work in a business with strong export/import links to the EU, or who aren't making use of Freedom of Movement.

    For the minority who are so affected then it will be life-changing. I think there was a statutory instrument passed on Monday that changed the rights of EU/EEA/Swiss/Turkish nationals have to own and run businesses (including to be self-employed) in the UK after Brexit.

    It doesn't affect *me*, but it's a chipping away of rights for my European friends that makes them feel unwelcome, even if they don't currently use those rights. In this day and age though it seems that minority rights don't matter. As long as *someone else* suffers then who gives a fig?
  • Anorak said:

    nunuone said:

    Horrific news out of Essex.

    The lorry came out of RoI , thanks to no checks on the border.

    Thanks E.U!

    No, thanks to the Tories hostile environment and the hate whipped up against vulnerable migrants and refugees by the right wing press and the political right wing.
    First prize for the most fuckwitted statement of the day.
    Yes, and second prize goes to the one which preceded it.
    Going back to look I agree.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483



    nunuone said:

    Horrific news out of Essex.

    The lorry came out of RoI , thanks to no checks on the border.

    Thanks E.U!

    No, thanks to the Tories hostile environment and the hate whipped up against vulnerable migrants and refugees by the right wing press and the political right wing.
    That is just plain bad taste and unwarranted.

    That kind of language does you no favours and you should have more respect for those who have perished than to try to make cheap political points
    Nunuone made the first politicalpoint scoring effort
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,464



    nunuone said:

    Horrific news out of Essex.

    The lorry came out of RoI , thanks to no checks on the border.

    Thanks E.U!

    No, thanks to the Tories hostile environment and the hate whipped up against vulnerable migrants and refugees by the right wing press and the political right wing.
    That is just plain bad taste and unwarranted.

    That kind of language does you no favours and you should have more respect for those who have perished than to try to make cheap political points
    It is neither.

    This will continue to happen, and people will wring their hands and say its awful (which indeed it is), but until we do something to help asylum seekers and migrants come to the UK rather than put barriers in the way then this sort of thing is inevitable.

    Still, get cranky with the point I made rather than the system that precipitated it why not.
    Whilst I'm sure we all wish to be compassionate to those in genuine need, there are finite resources. NHS, schools, housing, etc etc .

    What's the limit to the number? And limit there must be, or all the things I mention above and others would surely perish without one.
  • I think if the PM wishes for a majority in a forthcoming GE then he probably needs to come to an accommodation with BXP. Possibly Mr. Banks could be the mediator.
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 4,155

    Noo said:

    Noo said:



    nunuone said:

    Horrific news out of Essex.

    The lorry came out of RoI , thanks to no checks on the border.

    Thanks E.U!

    No, thanks to the Tories hostile environment and the hate whipped up against vulnerable migrants and refugees by the right wing press and the political right wing.
    That is just plain bad taste and unwarranted.

    That kind of language does you no favours and you should have more respect for those who have perished than to try to make cheap political points
    It is neither.

    This will continue to happen, and people will wring their hands and say its awful (which indeed it is), but until we do something to help asylum seekers and migrants come to the UK rather than put barriers in the way then this sort of thing is inevitable.

    Still, get cranky with the point I made rather than the system that precipitated it why not.
    You have no respect to those who have perished by making cheap political points at this time
    Out of interest, why are you picking up this cheap political point and saying nothing about the cheap political point that preceded it? Is it because political points are only cheap when they criticise your side of the aisle?
    No - this is a tragedy that calls for respect to those who have perished

    Politics can come later
    Your choice to condemn one statement and not the other was a political choice. You can see all the right-wing and pro-Brexit folk did the same.
    To be honest I did not notice the first starement and that was unacceptable as well

    It does not change my mind that it is just wrong to make a cheap political point when these poor people are still lying dead in a container in Essex

    The politics is for another day
    Whispers in the back of the class: everything is politics
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    HYUFD said:
    Banks is implicitly confirming BXP will not stand everywhere, thus making the opinion polls even harder to interpret.
    He has nothing to do with BXP.
    Banks is Nigel Farage's chief cheque-signer, and is thus linked to BXP.
    They have fallen out. He has not funded BXP.

    It will be small change for Tice to bankroll them
  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    I wonder if this indicates genuine disagreement, or he's just outlining a hypothetical.

    https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1186980869778628608
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    Andrew said:

    I wonder if this indicates genuine disagreement, or he's just outlining a hypothetical.

    https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1186980869778628608

    It’s easier for Macron to agree a three month extension away from a summit as there will be less media attention.

    The French have already said if the longer extension is for an election or second EU ref then they’d grant it . What they don’t want is three months of bickering in the Commons for no reason .

  • StreeterStreeter Posts: 684
    edited October 2019
    Ambushed by Tony Livesey on Radio 5, Kawczynski sheepishly admitted not knowing the Polish for 'veto', despite being a soi-disant 'nearly fluent speaker'.

    "It's 'weto', pronounced 'veto' " said a triumphant Livesey.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,231

    In my lifelong capacity as a "white man" I was tempted to vote for Swinson's party at the next election but if she's going to mark me out as part of an undesirable demographic I may have to change my mind.

    Can you not see the difference between it being undesirable for one group to have all six people at a meeting vs one individual.

    There is nothing wrong with being a white man.

    There is something wrong if only white men are involved in decision making.

    How would you feel if the six people deciding the countrys fate were six young black women? Wouldnt that be somewhat uncomfortable and make you wonder why men werent involved?
    No.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,231

    blueblue said:

    Noo said:

    Whisper it, because it doesn't matter, but Boris is a bit crap at PMQs.

    He's good at smashing Corbyn, and that's all that matters! :smile:
    Really? Their encounters always look to me like a rude teenager being told off by a grown up.
    That's not fair, Corbyn can be quite a polite teenager at times.
  • MangoMango Posts: 1,017
    Foxy said:

    Good Article @Cyclefree, it is hard to see how Conservatives can keep the Brexit coalition together. It seems obvious to me that it is the free trading Atlanticists that control the party, and it is the small c conservatives in Shires and old coalfields that are going to get shafted again.

    Broadly agreed, and this has always been the danger. Guess where they go next, after a few years of the Sports Direct economy.

    Fascism is my bet.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    If Labour is so worried about the deal they can do something to stop it by agreeing an election .

    Otherwise they should just abstain and let the deal go through and stop wasting time .

    Why should the EU have to be drawn into this , they don’t want to be seen to be telling MPs what to do with the extension but might be forced to .

    A one month extension to finish ratification of the deal or three months for an election .

    Now choose which one you want !
This discussion has been closed.