My hunch is that Boris will sneak this. He will get is way, we will Brexit and he will own the consequences. The question is what will those consequences be.
Will he do better than the winning side in ScotRef?
Yes, it will depend on how things pan out over the next year. Decisions by big companies, that sort of thing. Although with complete alignment continuing during transition it isn't clear what other problems there might be?
One thing that did puzzle me yesterday was a BBC report hat - according to Guy Verhofstadt - the European Parliament wouldn't ratify the deal until well into November. Can that really be correct?
Just had below from BXP (I enrolled to see what they are up to):
"At this important time, I want to update you on The Brexit Party’s thoughts on Boris’ proposed deal. The truth is that it would be BRINO, Brexit in name only. We have always stood for a Clean-Break Brexit so we can maximise the Brexit opportunities.
This deal is still a really bad deal. Apart from unnecessarily paying £39 billion, the Political Declaration — which sets the basis for the future Free Trade Agreement with the EU — is full of traps and pitfalls. Despite the warm words, it will heavily restrict our foreign policy and military independence as well as policies on trade, tax, fishing, the environment, social and employment law, competition and state aid. We will have to operate on a “level playing field”. We would not be able to become a high growth, low tax, smartly regulated economy, which the EU is terrified that we could become.
If Boris’ treaty is passed, a transition period of over three years is likely — when we have no voice, no vote and no veto — as the EU sets new rules and laws that discriminate against us.
Any short-term temptation to back this deal will result in huge medium-term regret. It would be a historic mistake. A Clean-Break Brexit is still the right way forward. "
What is the bloody point? Whatever the length of the extension, we leave once the paperwork is done. We could be granted a ten-year extension, and still (in theory) leave before 31 October if we're ready.
The point is Letwin is currently trying to force the letter tomorrow, the EU have made it pretty clear they arent going to extend, especially if the deal has been agreed (in principle in this case) so they decline an extension and no deal becomes a real possibility again if the WAIB falls. Only a moron like Letwin could come up with such a stupid amendment
But of course, the EU haven't made it clear they aren't going to extebility of extending, obviously intended to encourage MPs to vote in favour, but incapable of deceiving a small child.
The only problem here is Johnson's idiotic self-imposed deadline. Wouldn't it be great if everyone else ignored the child in the room and started behaving like adults?
They have stated pretty clearly any extension is for a reason.
Johnson is unable to assure them that he or Parliament can deliver the reason for an extension. (Election or Referendum the numbers can not be guaranteed).
That could easily lead to no extension.
You can come out with as much wishful thinking as you like. The EU has certainly not made clear that they aren't going to extend, which was the claim.
They will extend for a reason.
Like to suggest some reasons they would extend for and how they are guaranteed?
They'll extend to avoid No Deal. OK?
And they will refuse to extend until parliament has voted. Only if the deal is voted down will they (possibly) offer an extension
I don't know whether you remember as long ago as half an hour, but what I was disagreeing with was this, from you: "the EU have made it pretty clear they arent going to extend, especially if the deal has been agreed"
It seems you now disagree with it yourself.
I really wonder what point people see in filling the thread with this kind of guff, which they're going to go back on anyway a few minutes later!
Yesm they arent going to even consider extending unless the deal is voted down. You seen to think theyll extend before it's even been voted on which is a ridiculous position to hold.
It's no use pretending you can't read - it only makes you look foolish.
Sterling just edged positive on the day. Has Boris got the big mo?
Yes.
Whether its enough is hard to tell, but he has the Big Mo.
Vox pops prove whatever you like but the unanimity on R4 this morning was quite impressive. People no longer care about the details, they just want it done.
Sometimes simple slogans can tell a story. Boris/Cummings choosing "Get Brexit Done" as their slogan was a masterstroke - I do think the overwhelming majority of the public want this done with now and his deal is the way now to get it done.
Just had below from BXP (I enrolled to see what they are up to):
"At this important time, I want to update you on The Brexit Party’s thoughts on Boris’ proposed deal. The truth is that it would be BRINO, Brexit in name only. We have always stood for a Clean-Break Brexit so we can maximise the Brexit opportunities.
This deal is still a really bad deal. Apart from unnecessarily paying £39 billion ….
£33b now. Part of the chunk for transition we've already paid while still members.
One thing that did puzzle me yesterday was a BBC report hat - according to Guy Verhofstadt - the European Parliament wouldn't ratify the deal until well into November. Can that really be correct?
I think the deal has a good chance of passing but not until MPs have seen the WAIB.
And also for Labour MPs they need to see what proposals Johnson is putting forward on workers rights etc.
This rush to get the deal through is just for Bozos pledge , the EU want the deal to go through but aren’t bothered if it takes a few more weeks .
They’re not going to say no extension if the deal is likely to pass.
Just a polite question but have you followed the EU coverage in the media because they clearly stated no extension unless for a GE or possibly a referendum. The EU also said that if the deal falls tomorrow another vote should happen next week and they keep repeating it
Even now the EU are involved with many difficult issues causing stress and disagreement totally unconnected with brexit so they just want it done, they have had enough
The Commission and Council have confirmed they will pass their own votes next week to exit on the 31st with FTA negotiations to commence immediately on the 1st November
The EU are all geared up for brexit on the 31st and there are going to be a lot of leaders wholly unimpressed if the HOC engineer more delays and believe you me, they will not wear it
Just had below from BXP (I enrolled to see what they are up to):
"At this important time, I want to update you on The Brexit Party’s thoughts on Boris’ proposed deal. The truth is that it would be BRINO, Brexit in name only. We have always stood for a Clean-Break Brexit so we can maximise the Brexit opportunities.
This deal is still a really bad deal. Apart from unnecessarily paying £39 billion, the Political Declaration — which sets the basis for the future Free Trade Agreement with the EU — is full of traps and pitfalls. Despite the warm words, it will heavily restrict our foreign policy and military independence as well as policies on trade, tax, fishing, the environment, social and employment law, competition and state aid. We will have to operate on a “level playing field”. We would not be able to become a high growth, low tax, smartly regulated economy, which the EU is terrified that we could become.
If Boris’ treaty is passed, a transition period of over three years is likely — when we have no voice, no vote and no veto — as the EU sets new rules and laws that discriminate against us.
Any short-term temptation to back this deal will result in huge medium-term regret. It would be a historic mistake. A Clean-Break Brexit is still the right way forward. "
A clean break Brexit is not what they campaigned for during the European Elections actually. What they campaigned for was respecting the referendum.
How many are not going to vote tomorrow? Clearly the 7 terrorists/friends of Jeremy, the Speaker (except on a tie) and 3 deputies, what about O'Mara? Anyone else?
If that is all 638 votes, a winning line of 320. Sounds a lot without the DUP.
Kelvin Hopkins is a hard leaver but a pal of Jeremy, he may well abstain
That's why I suggested Dennis Skinner.
He is a hard leaver, a pal of Jeremy [who was a hard leaver when he was on the backbenches] and hates the Tories. I think he might combust if he voted with the Tories but backs leaving.
I'd laugh my arse off if Skinner voted with the Tories on this, unlikely, but we seem to be so far through the looking glass now that anything is possible.
I voted remain, but if he gets this deal through without the DUP nutters, I hope they get a massive backlash at the election. Spend all their time wanging on about the Union, but seem to be staring down the barrel of an Irish border poll if they carry on like this. Idiots.
With Farage now a remain supporting defender of the Benn Act it is an amazing time.
The DUP think they are the only ones who care about the UK. I've yet to read the changes so dont know if their concerns are right, but its certainly true that since they always moan self righteously it's hard to tell when they have a point.
The DUP are completely correct from their perspective. I'm astonished that the Scottish Conservative MPs aren't having canaries over the precedent it sets.
Last time I checked Scotland had not had a terrorist war for decades and did not border another EU nation unlike Northern Ireland
Just had below from BXP (I enrolled to see what they are up to):
"At this important time, I want to update you on The Brexit Party’s thoughts on Boris’ proposed deal. The truth is that it would be BRINO, Brexit in name only. We have always stood for a Clean-Break Brexit so we can maximise the Brexit opportunities.
This deal is still a really bad deal. Apart from unnecessarily paying £39 billion, the Political Declaration — which sets the basis for the future Free Trade Agreement with the EU — is full of traps and pitfalls. Despite the warm words, it will heavily restrict our foreign policy and military independence as well as policies on trade, tax, fishing, the environment, social and employment law, competition and state aid. We will have to operate on a “level playing field”. We would not be able to become a high growth, low tax, smartly regulated economy, which the EU is terrified that we could become.
If Boris’ treaty is passed, a transition period of over three years is likely — when we have no voice, no vote and no veto — as the EU sets new rules and laws that discriminate against us.
Any short-term temptation to back this deal will result in huge medium-term regret. It would be a historic mistake. A Clean-Break Brexit is still the right way forward. "
A clean break Brexit is not what they campaigned for during the European Elections actually. What they campaigned for was respecting the referendum.
Yes. I seem to remember it being about more than Brexit, it was about trust in politicians
How many are not going to vote tomorrow? Clearly the 7 terrorists/friends of Jeremy, the Speaker (except on a tie) and 3 deputies, what about O'Mara? Anyone else?
If that is all 638 votes, a winning line of 320. Sounds a lot without the DUP.
Kelvin Hopkins is a hard leaver but a pal of Jeremy, he may well abstain
That's why I suggested Dennis Skinner.
He is a hard leaver, a pal of Jeremy [who was a hard leaver when he was on the backbenches] and hates the Tories. I think he might combust if he voted with the Tories but backs leaving.
I'd laugh my arse off if Skinner voted with the Tories on this, unlikely, but we seem to be so far through the looking glass now that anything is possible.
I voted remain, but if he gets this deal through without the DUP nutters, I hope they get a massive backlash at the election. Spend all their time wanging on about the Union, but seem to be staring down the barrel of an Irish border poll if they carry on like this. Idiots.
With Farage now a remain supporting defender of the Benn Act it is an amazing time.
The DUP think they are the only ones who care about the UK. I've yet to read the changes so dont know if their concerns are right, but its certainly true that since they always moan self righteously it's hard to tell when they have a point.
The DUP are completely correct from their perspective. I'm astonished that the Scottish Conservative MPs aren't having canaries over the precedent it sets.
That assumes a level of collective intelligence and gumption that the SCon MPs do not possess.
Loads know they're toast at the next GE so best to keep nose clean with the party for future jobs.
Only the three border MPs have a strong chance of holding, and lord knows the likes of Ross Thomson and Kirstene Hair are unemployable in the real world.
The latest Panelbase has Aberdeen South and Aberdeenshire West and Kincardine also staying Tory, so Ross is safe
One thing that did puzzle me yesterday was a BBC report hat - according to Guy Verhofstadt - the European Parliament wouldn't ratify the deal until well into November. Can that really be correct?
Just had below from BXP (I enrolled to see what they are up to):
"At this important time, I want to update you on The Brexit Party’s thoughts on Boris’ proposed deal. The truth is that it would be BRINO, Brexit in name only. We have always stood for a Clean-Break Brexit so we can maximise the Brexit opportunities.
This deal is still a really bad deal. Apart from unnecessarily paying £39 billion, the Political Declaration — which sets the basis for the future Free Trade Agreement with the EU — is full of traps and pitfalls. Despite the warm words, it will heavily restrict our foreign policy and military independence as well as policies on trade, tax, fishing, the environment, social and employment law, competition and state aid. We will have to operate on a “level playing field”. We would not be able to become a high growth, low tax, smartly regulated economy, which the EU is terrified that we could become.
If Boris’ treaty is passed, a transition period of over three years is likely — when we have no voice, no vote and no veto — as the EU sets new rules and laws that discriminate against us.
Any short-term temptation to back this deal will result in huge medium-term regret. It would be a historic mistake. A Clean-Break Brexit is still the right way forward. "
A clean break Brexit is not what they campaigned for during the European Elections actually. What they campaigned for was respecting the referendum.
Yes. I seem to remember it being about more than Brexit, it was about trust in politicians
How many are not going to vote tomorrow? Clearly the 7 terrorists/friends of Jeremy, the Speaker (except on a tie) and 3 deputies, what about O'Mara? Anyone else?
If that is all 638 votes, a winning line of 320. Sounds a lot without the DUP.
Kelvin Hopkins is a hard leaver but a pal of Jeremy, he may well abstain
That's why I suggested Dennis Skinner.
He is a hard leaver, a pal of Jeremy [who was a hard leaver when he was on the backbenches] and hates the Tories. I think he might combust if he voted with the Tories but backs leaving.
I'd laugh my arse off if Skinner voted with the Tories on this, unlikely, but we seem to be so far through the looking glass now that anything is possible.
I voted remain, but if he gets this deal through without the DUP nutters, I hope they get a massive backlash at the election. Spend all their time wanging on about the Union, but seem to be staring down the barrel of an Irish border poll if they carry on like this. Idiots.
With Farage now a remain supporting defender of the Benn Act it is an amazing time.
The DUP think they are the only ones who care about the UK. I've yet to read the changes so dont know if their concerns are right, but its certainly true that since they always moan self righteously it's hard to tell when they have a point.
The DUP are completely correct from their perspective. I'm astonished that the Scottish Conservative MPs aren't having canaries over the precedent it sets.
Last time I checked Scotland had not had a terrorist war for decades and did not border another EU nation unlike Northern Ireland
Only because they have lacked your diplomatic approach.
I was referring more to the way that the English nationalists evidently see Northern Ireland as dispensable.
I think the deal has a good chance of passing but not until MPs have seen the WAIB.
And also for Labour MPs they need to see what proposals Johnson is putting forward on workers rights etc.
This rush to get the deal through is just for Bozos pledge , the EU want the deal to go through but aren’t bothered if it takes a few more weeks .
They’re not going to say no extension if the deal is likely to pass.
Just a polite question but have you followed the EU coverage in the media because they clearly stated no extension unless for a GE or possibly a referendum. The EU also said that if the deal falls tomorrow another vote should happen next week and they keep repeating it
Even now the EU are involved with many difficult issues causing stress and disagreement totally unconnected with brexit so they just want it done, they have had enough
The Commission and Council have confirmed they will pass their own votes next week to exit on the 31st with FTA negotiations to commence immediately on the 1st November
The EU are all geared up for brexit on the 31st and there are going to be a lot of leaders wholly unimpressed if the HOC engineer more delays and believe you me, they will not wear it
What they’re saying is to show support for Johnson . The EU don’t want to start ratification till they’re 100% sure the full legislation has passed..
I don’t think you’ve thought about what’s likely to be in the WAIB, there’s likely to be some controversial issues there which could see the ERG start playing games .
It’s possible the deal goes through and the WAIB doesn’t .
How many are not going to vote tomorrow? Clearly the 7 terrorists/friends of Jeremy, the Speaker (except on a tie) and 3 deputies, what about O'Mara? Anyone else?
If that is all 638 votes, a winning line of 320. Sounds a lot without the DUP.
Kelvin Hopkins is a hard leaver but a pal of Jeremy, he may well abstain
That's why I suggested Dennis Skinner.
He is a hard leaver, a pal of Jeremy [who was a hard leaver when he was on the backbenches] and hates the Tories. I think he might combust if he voted with the Tories but backs leaving.
I'd laugh my arse off if Skinner voted with the Tories on this, unlikely, but we seem to be so far through the looking glass now that anything is possible.
I voted remain, but if he gets this deal through without the DUP nutters, I hope they get a massive backlash at the election. Spend all their time wanging on about the Union, but seem to be staring down the barrel of an Irish border poll if they carry on like this. Idiots.
With Farage now a remain supporting defender of the Benn Act it is an amazing time.
The DUP think they are the only ones who care about the UK. I've yet to read the changes so dont know if their concerns are right, but its certainly true that since they always moan self righteously it's hard to tell when they have a point.
The DUP are completely correct from their perspective. I'm astonished that the Scottish Conservative MPs aren't having canaries over the precedent it sets.
Last time I checked Scotland had not had a terrorist war for decades and did not border another EU nation unlike Northern Ireland
I've already pointed out to you
(a) the shamefulness of denying the Scots a referendum just cos they don't start a terrorist campaign
(b) that Scotland has a land border with another EU nation, ie England, and maritime ones with others. ,
One thing that did puzzle me yesterday was a BBC report hat - according to Guy Verhofstadt - the European Parliament wouldn't ratify the deal until well into November. Can that really be correct?
The new EP only begins on Nov 1. So, yes.
Is the old EP not sitting?
It is sitting next week.
But in any case, if Article 50 requires ratification of the agreement by the European Parliament, how can we leave before that happens?
If forced to bet on this I would back the deal passing.
Glad I am not forced to bet on this.
The SNP will never have hoped a vote passes despite their opposition more
You think? I think this is a bad outcome for the SNP.
This is the kind of Brexit that doesn't tip people over the edge to full blown Indy support.
I think it will. Sturgeon is already talking about the advantages NI will have.
Boris and Westminster will block indyref2 for the foreseeable future anyway.
The main thing was to avoid No Deal for most Scots, this Deal does it
We already know your attitude towards Scotland, which is they should count themselves lucky that you are not imprisoning their leaders. You are a parody account aren’t you?
Well the Spanish government has now set a precedent by jailing Catalan nationalists for holding an unauthorised independence referendum
They've also set a precedent with their attitude to Gibraltar. Yet you don't agree with that do you?
One thing that did puzzle me yesterday was a BBC report hat - according to Guy Verhofstadt - the European Parliament wouldn't ratify the deal until well into November. Can that really be correct?
The new EP only begins on Nov 1. So, yes.
Is the old EP not sitting?
It is sitting next week.
But in any case, if Article 50 requires ratification of the agreement by the European Parliament, how can we leave before that happens?
My hunch is that Boris will sneak this. He will get is way, we will Brexit and he will own the consequences. The question is what will those consequences be.
Will he do better than the winning side in ScotRef?
Yes as Leave was anti establishment, Better Together was the establishment
I think the deal has a good chance of passing but not until MPs have seen the WAIB.
And also for Labour MPs they need to see what proposals Johnson is putting forward on workers rights etc.
This rush to get the deal through is just for Bozos pledge , the EU want the deal to go through but aren’t bothered if it takes a few more weeks .
They’re not going to say no extension if the deal is likely to pass.
Just a polite question but have you followed the EU coverage in the media because they clearly stated no extension unless for a GE or possibly a referendum. The EU also said that if the deal falls tomorrow another vote should happen next week and they keep repeating it
Even now the EU are involved with many difficult issues causing stress and disagreement totally unconnected with brexit so they just want it done, they have had enough
The Commission and Council have confirmed they will pass their own votes next week to exit on the 31st with FTA negotiations to commence immediately on the 1st November
The EU are all geared up for brexit on the 31st and there are going to be a lot of leaders wholly unimpressed if the HOC engineer more delays and believe you me, they will not wear it
What they’re saying is to show support for Johnson . The EU don’t want to start ratification till they’re 100% sure the full legislation has passed..
I don’t think you’ve thought about what’s likely to be in the WAIB, there’s likely to be some controversial issues there which could see the ERG start playing games .
It’s possible the deal goes through and the WAIB doesn’t .
If the deal passes tomorrow brexit will happen on the 31st October
How many are not going to vote tomorrow? Clearly the 7 terrorists/friends of Jeremy, the Speaker (except on a tie) and 3 deputies, what about O'Mara? Anyone else?
If that is all 638 votes, a winning line of 320. Sounds a lot without the DUP.
Kelvin Hopkins is a hard leaver but a pal of Jeremy, he may well abstain
That's why I suggested Dennis Skinner.
He is a hard leaver, a pal of Jeremy [who was a hard leaver when he was on the backbenches] and hates the Tories. I think he might combust if he voted with the Tories but backs leaving.
I'd laugh my arse off if Skinner voted with the Tories on this, unlikely, but we seem to be so far through the looking glass now that anything is possible.
I voted remain, but if he gets this deal through without the DUP nutters, I hope they get a massive backlash at the election. Spend all their time wanging on about the Union, but seem to be staring down the barrel of an Irish border poll if they carry on like this. Idiots.
With Farage now a remain supporting defender of the Benn Act it is an amazing time.
The DUP think they are the only ones who care about the UK. I've yet to read the changes so dont know if their concerns are right, but its certainly true that since they always moan self righteously it's hard to tell when they have a point.
The DUP are completely correct from their perspective. I'm astonished that the Scottish Conservative MPs aren't having canaries over the precedent it sets.
Last time I checked Scotland had not had a terrorist war for decades and did not border another EU nation unlike Northern Ireland
Only because they have lacked your diplomatic approach.
I was referring more to the way that the English nationalists evidently see Northern Ireland as dispensable.
If there was a hard border in Ireland Northern Irish voters would vote for Irish unity anyway
David Gauke backs the deal but also backs the Letwin Amendment .
This is a test for Johnson , basically if you’re acting in good faith then the amendment is sensible to allow proper scrutiny of the legislation.
I'm still unclear if the amendment means there needs to be another vote later. Because if it does then while scrutiny is necessary it is also a delaying ploy by those besides Letwin who want to reject it
Just had below from BXP (I enrolled to see what they are up to):
"At this important time, I want to update you on The Brexit Party’s thoughts on Boris’ proposed deal. The truth is that it would be BRINO, Brexit in name only. We have always stood for a Clean-Break Brexit so we can maximise the Brexit opportunities.
This deal is still a really bad deal. Apart from unnecessarily paying £39 billion, the Political Declaration — which sets the basis for the future Free Trade Agreement with the EU — is full of traps and pitfalls. Despite the warm words, it will heavily restrict our foreign policy and military independence as well as policies on trade, tax, fishing, the environment, social and employment law, competition and state aid. We will have to operate on a “level playing field”. We would not be able to become a high growth, low tax, smartly regulated economy, which the EU is terrified that we could become.
If Boris’ treaty is passed, a transition period of over three years is likely — when we have no voice, no vote and no veto — as the EU sets new rules and laws that discriminate against us.
Any short-term temptation to back this deal will result in huge medium-term regret. It would be a historic mistake. A Clean-Break Brexit is still the right way forward. "
Given the majority of what they are complaining about won't be resolved until the FTA which hasn't even started being negotiated yet, how the hell do they know?
One thing that did puzzle me yesterday was a BBC report hat - according to Guy Verhofstadt - the European Parliament wouldn't ratify the deal until well into November. Can that really be correct?
The new EP only begins on Nov 1. So, yes.
Is the old EP not sitting?
It is sitting next week.
But in any case, if Article 50 requires ratification of the agreement by the European Parliament, how can we leave before that happens?
Juncker confirms that the European Parliament will pass the deal next week if the HOC passes the deal
How many are not going to vote tomorrow? Clearly the 7 terrorists/friends of Jeremy, the Speaker (except on a tie) and 3 deputies, what about O'Mara? Anyone else?
If that is all 638 votes, a winning line of 320. Sounds a lot without the DUP.
Kelvin Hopkins is a hard leaver but a pal of Jeremy, he may well abstain
I'd laugh my arse off if Skinner voted with the Tories on this, unlikely
With Farage now a remain supporting defender of the Benn Act it is an amazing time.
The DUP think they are the only ones who care about the UK. I've yet to read the changes so dont know if their concerns are right, but its certainly true that since they always moan self righteously it's hard to tell when they have a point.
The DUP are completely correct from their perspective. I'm astonished that the Scottish Conservative MPs aren't having canaries over the precedent it sets.
Last time I checked Scotland had not had a terrorist war for decades and did not border another EU nation unlike Northern Ireland
Only because they have lacked your diplomatic approach.
I was referring more to the way that the English nationalists evidently see Northern Ireland as dispensable.
I think this is another one of those times where people on here speak past each other without understanding what is meant. I won’t speak for others, but my view is simple. I’d be happy if Scotland, Wales and NI stayed in the Union, but it’s not my choice. It’s theirs. If they stay, the deal is that the vote of one person in Inverness, Londonderry, or Swansea has exactly the same meaning as the vote of one person in Dunstable; and the countries don’t matter. That will always mean the majority in the Commons has a majority of English MPs. Believing in the union means being fine with that so I understand exactly why Scots nats won’t ever accept it, and so each country should have referendums whenever the relevant devolved assembly wants one. When those votes come, we English should shut up and let them decide.
On the other side of the argument, I get the sense that you and others feel a loyalty to the concept of the union that means you want to convince or compel the Scots. The ultimate expression of that is English people going around thinking they have a right to refuse a referendum for Scotland.
David Gauke backs the deal but also backs the Letwin Amendment .
This is a test for Johnson , basically if you’re acting in good faith then the amendment is sensible to allow proper scrutiny of the legislation.
I'm still unclear if the amendment means there needs to be another vote later. Because if it does then while scrutiny is necessary it is also a delaying ploy by those besides Letwin who want to reject it
You don’t actually need to approve a MV4 , you can just incorporate that into the WAIB and pass the whole thing .
One thing that did puzzle me yesterday was a BBC report hat - according to Guy Verhofstadt - the European Parliament wouldn't ratify the deal until well into November. Can that really be correct?
The new EP only begins on Nov 1. So, yes.
Is the old EP not sitting?
It is sitting next week.
But in any case, if Article 50 requires ratification of the agreement by the European Parliament, how can we leave before that happens?
Juncker confirms that the European Parliament will pass the deal next week if the HOC passes the deal
It’s irrelevant the EU Parliament can only ratify after the full UK process which isn’t going to happen in 5 days .
The value bet is pass by ten or more. No significant naysayers have yet appeared amongst ex Tories or ERG and labour leavers look like breaking cover to vote for The more support declares the less likely Letwin passes as it will be unnecesasary
The vote tomorrow is a watershed moment. If Johnson wins tomorrow, then he romps home in a GE. And, HYUFD will tell you the exact number of MPs the Tories will have. The SNP will be other winner.
The vote tomorrow is a watershed moment. If Johnson wins tomorrow, then he romps home in a GE. And, HYUFD will tell you the exact number of MPs the Tories will have. The SNP will be other winner.
One thing that did puzzle me yesterday was a BBC report hat - according to Guy Verhofstadt - the European Parliament wouldn't ratify the deal until well into November. Can that really be correct?
The new EP only begins on Nov 1. So, yes.
Is the old EP not sitting?
It is sitting next week.
But in any case, if Article 50 requires ratification of the agreement by the European Parliament, how can we leave before that happens?
Juncker confirms that the European Parliament will pass the deal next week if the HOC passes the deal
If Juncker did say that, it's the opposite of what Verhofstadt said.
The vote tomorrow is a watershed moment. If Johnson wins tomorrow, then he romps home in a GE. And, HYUFD will tell you the exact number of MPs the Tories will have. The SNP will be other winner.
What if: tomorrow deal and Letwin pass, then the opposition moves to a vonc…..
Yes, I'm trolling a little, but only a little. They haven't given up.
The vote tomorrow is a watershed moment. If Johnson wins tomorrow, then he romps home in a GE. And, HYUFD will tell you the exact number of MPs the Tories will have. The SNP will be other winner.
If the deal passes, then the GE becomes very unpredictable. Johnson won't get a thank you card from the electorate.
One thing that did puzzle me yesterday was a BBC report hat - according to Guy Verhofstadt - the European Parliament wouldn't ratify the deal until well into November. Can that really be correct?
The new EP only begins on Nov 1. So, yes.
Is the old EP not sitting?
It is sitting next week.
But in any case, if Article 50 requires ratification of the agreement by the European Parliament, how can we leave before that happens?
Juncker confirms that the European Parliament will pass the deal next week if the HOC passes the deal
It’s irrelevant the EU Parliament can only ratify after the full UK process which isn’t going to happen in 5 days .
Actually, Article 50 speaks of the leaving country and the EU Council concluding an agreement only after ratification by the European Parliament, not before.
The vote tomorrow is a watershed moment. If Johnson wins tomorrow, then he romps home in a GE. And, HYUFD will tell you the exact number of MPs the Tories will have. The SNP will be other winner.
What if: tomorrow deal and Letwin pass, then the opposition moves to a vonc…..
One thing that did puzzle me yesterday was a BBC report hat - according to Guy Verhofstadt - the European Parliament wouldn't ratify the deal until well into November. Can that really be correct?
The new EP only begins on Nov 1. So, yes.
Is the old EP not sitting?
It is sitting next week.
But in any case, if Article 50 requires ratification of the agreement by the European Parliament, how can we leave before that happens?
Juncker confirms that the European Parliament will pass the deal next week if the HOC passes the deal
It’s irrelevant the EU Parliament can only ratify after the full UK process which isn’t going to happen in 5 days .
You know I do find it hard to understand how you can contradict the President of the Commission who is responsible for their Parliament who has unequivacably stated the Commission will pass the deal in time for the 31st October and will commence FTA discussions the day after
As a matter of interest did you listen to Juncker yesterday at all
The vote tomorrow is a watershed moment. If Johnson wins tomorrow, then he romps home in a GE. And, HYUFD will tell you the exact number of MPs the Tories will have. The SNP will be other winner.
If the deal passes, then the GE becomes very unpredictable. Johnson won't get a thank you card from the electorate.
No, but Labour will still have Captain Salad as leader, therefore reducing their vote in key marginals.
I don't see what the Letwin Amendment changes. So Letwin passes, Boris sends a letter, EU replies to letter saying "you have a deal, you have the time, ratify it this week, no need for an extension" - then what?
And to my knowledge then the Benn Act's arrow is shot. The letter has been sent, the Act complied with, it would require a new Act to force a new letter.
I don't see what the Letwin Amendment changes. So Letwin passes, Boris sends a letter, EU replies to letter saying "you have a deal, you have the time, ratify it this week, no need for an extension" - then what?
And to my knowledge then the Benn Act's arrow is shot. The letter has been sent, the Act complied with, it would require a new Act to force a new letter.
I don't see what the Letwin Amendment changes. So Letwin passes, Boris sends a letter, EU replies to letter saying "you have a deal, you have the time, ratify it this week, no need for an extension" - then what?
And to my knowledge then the Benn Act's arrow is shot. The letter has been sent, the Act complied with, it would require a new Act to force a new letter.
Precisely. They should be amending to force Benn if the WAIB falls, when it would actually be needed. This is just about embarrassing Johnson
One thing that did puzzle me yesterday was a BBC report hat - according to Guy Verhofstadt - the European Parliament wouldn't ratify the deal until well into November. Can that really be correct?
I don't see what the Letwin Amendment changes. So Letwin passes, Boris sends a letter, EU replies to letter saying "you have a deal, you have the time, ratify it this week, no need for an extension" - then what?
And to my knowledge then the Benn Act's arrow is shot. The letter has been sent, the Act complied with, it would require a new Act to force a new letter.
Do you really think the EU will seek to impose no deal Brexit rather than allow MPs proper time to scrutinise the deal? It seems innately implausible to me.
By the way, I don't think David Gauke was backing Boris Johnson's deal. I think it was the most almighty Freudian slip.
Apart from him saying this:
"I’ve been making the case for a long time that resolving Brexit was going to require compromise. Tomorrow I will back the PM’s compromise. I hope Parliament will back the deal."
The vote tomorrow is a watershed moment. If Johnson wins tomorrow, then he romps home in a GE. And, HYUFD will tell you the exact number of MPs the Tories will have. The SNP will be other winner.
If the deal passes, then the GE becomes very unpredictable. Johnson won't get a thank you card from the electorate.
That's why he's spent so much time having his government make extravagant spending commitments, with the Budget to come in the first week of November. He's not going to be fishing for gratitude. That's wishful thinking on your part.
I don't see what the Letwin Amendment changes. So Letwin passes, Boris sends a letter, EU replies to letter saying "you have a deal, you have the time, ratify it this week, no need for an extension" - then what?
And to my knowledge then the Benn Act's arrow is shot. The letter has been sent, the Act complied with, it would require a new Act to force a new letter.
Isn't it more like the EU say they grant an extension which only kicks in if the deal is not passed by a certain date?
One thing that did puzzle me yesterday was a BBC report hat - according to Guy Verhofstadt - the European Parliament wouldn't ratify the deal until well into November. Can that really be correct?
The new EP only begins on Nov 1. So, yes.
Is the old EP not sitting?
It is sitting next week.
But in any case, if Article 50 requires ratification of the agreement by the European Parliament, how can we leave before that happens?
Juncker confirms that the European Parliament will pass the deal next week if the HOC passes the deal
If Juncker did say that, it's the opposite of what Verhofstadt said.
I listened to him live yesterday saying it and repeating it
One thing that did puzzle me yesterday was a BBC report hat - according to Guy Verhofstadt - the European Parliament wouldn't ratify the deal until well into November. Can that really be correct?
The new EP only begins on Nov 1. So, yes.
Is the old EP not sitting?
It is sitting next week.
But in any case, if Article 50 requires ratification of the agreement by the European Parliament, how can we leave before that happens?
Juncker confirms that the European Parliament will pass the deal next week if the HOC passes the deal
If Juncker did say that, it's the opposite of what Verhofstadt said.
Exactly . Juncker has no sway over the EU Parliament, Bozo has been on the phone to say please put pressure on MPs.
Guy V has said they won’t start ratification until the deal is a 100% watertight in the UK.
Too many Leavers are falling for these Juncker briefings and equally falling for the no extension nonsense .
The vote tomorrow is a watershed moment. If Johnson wins tomorrow, then he romps home in a GE. And, HYUFD will tell you the exact number of MPs the Tories will have. The SNP will be other winner.
If the deal passes, then the GE becomes very unpredictable. Johnson won't get a thank you card from the electorate.
No, but Labour will still have Captain Salad as leader, therefore reducing their vote in key marginals.
If you are referring to Jeremy Corbyn I suspect you will find he's gone before next spring is out. I'd be surprised if we had a GE before then.
I don't see what the Letwin Amendment changes. So Letwin passes, Boris sends a letter, EU replies to letter saying "you have a deal, you have the time, ratify it this week, no need for an extension" - then what?
And to my knowledge then the Benn Act's arrow is shot. The letter has been sent, the Act complied with, it would require a new Act to force a new letter.
Isn't it more like the EU say they grant an extension which only kicks in if the deal is not passed by a certain date?
One thing that did puzzle me yesterday was a BBC report hat - according to Guy Verhofstadt - the European Parliament wouldn't ratify the deal until well into November. Can that really be correct?
The new EP only begins on Nov 1. So, yes.
Is the old EP not sitting?
It is sitting next week.
But in any case, if Article 50 requires ratification of the agreement by the European Parliament, how can we leave before that happens?
Juncker confirms that the European Parliament will pass the deal next week if the HOC passes the deal
If Juncker did say that, it's the opposite of what Verhofstadt said.
Exactly . Juncker has no sway over the EU Parliament, Bozo has been on the phone to say please put pressure on MPs.
Guy V has said they won’t start ratification until the deal is a 100% watertight in the UK.
Too many Leavers are falling for these briefings and equally falling for the no extension nonsense .
In fairness too many of us fell for briefings about no reopening of the WA .
One thing that did puzzle me yesterday was a BBC report hat - according to Guy Verhofstadt - the European Parliament wouldn't ratify the deal until well into November. Can that really be correct?
The new EP only begins on Nov 1. So, yes.
Is the old EP not sitting?
It is sitting next week.
But in any case, if Article 50 requires ratification of the agreement by the European Parliament, how can we leave before that happens?
Juncker confirms that the European Parliament will pass the deal next week if the HOC passes the deal
It’s irrelevant the EU Parliament can only ratify after the full UK process which isn’t going to happen in 5 days .
Actually, Article 50 speaks of the leaving country and the EU Council concluding an agreement only after ratification by the European Parliament, not before.
Again, Juncker said the ratification in the EU Parliament will happen next week if deal passed
I don't see what the Letwin Amendment changes. So Letwin passes, Boris sends a letter, EU replies to letter saying "you have a deal, you have the time, ratify it this week, no need for an extension" - then what?
And to my knowledge then the Benn Act's arrow is shot. The letter has been sent, the Act complied with, it would require a new Act to force a new letter.
Do you really think the EU will seek to impose no deal Brexit rather than allow MPs proper time to scrutinise the deal? It seems innately implausible to me.
No I don't, I think they know Parliament won't enforce No Deal either and so are calling time on schenanigans and will make Parliament come to a decision. If the EU says that there's no more time available then what will Parliament do next - all those currently seeking an extension will have to swallow their pride and accept the EU's deal or vote to revoke, either way the EU rips off the bandage.
I don't see what the Letwin Amendment changes. So Letwin passes, Boris sends a letter, EU replies to letter saying "you have a deal, you have the time, ratify it this week, no need for an extension" - then what?
And to my knowledge then the Benn Act's arrow is shot. The letter has been sent, the Act complied with, it would require a new Act to force a new letter.
Precisely. They should be amending to force Benn if the WAIB falls, when it would actually be needed. This is just about embarrassing Johnson
By that time it will be too late . And so what if they’re embarrassing Johnson , his stupid pledge gets what it deserves . And wouldn’t you be a bit pissed off about losing the whip when the ERG have been running riot for 3 years .
One thing that did puzzle me yesterday was a BBC report hat - according to Guy Verhofstadt - the European Parliament wouldn't ratify the deal until well into November. Can that really be correct?
The new EP only begins on Nov 1. So, yes.
Is the old EP not sitting?
It is sitting next week.
But in any case, if Article 50 requires ratification of the agreement by the European Parliament, how can we leave before that happens?
Juncker confirms that the European Parliament will pass the deal next week if the HOC passes the deal
If Juncker did say that, it's the opposite of what Verhofstadt said.
I listened to him live yesterday saying it and repeating it
Well, what I heard him say was simply "I have to make sure it will pass the hurdles of the European Parliament, that's all."
Don't you think it's rather strange that if he had said that, Verhofstadt would have said the opposite?
One thing that did puzzle me yesterday was a BBC report hat - according to Guy Verhofstadt - the European Parliament wouldn't ratify the deal until well into November. Can that really be correct?
The new EP only begins on Nov 1. So, yes.
Is the old EP not sitting?
It is sitting next week.
But in any case, if Article 50 requires ratification of the agreement by the European Parliament, how can we leave before that happens?
Juncker confirms that the European Parliament will pass the deal next week if the HOC passes the deal
If Juncker did say that, it's the opposite of what Verhofstadt said.
Exactly . Juncker has no sway over the EU Parliament, Bozo has been on the phone to say please put pressure on MPs.
Guy V has said they won’t start ratification until the deal is a 100% watertight in the UK.
Too many Leavers are falling for these Juncker briefings and equally falling for the no extension nonsense .
One thing that did puzzle me yesterday was a BBC report hat - according to Guy Verhofstadt - the European Parliament wouldn't ratify the deal until well into November. Can that really be correct?
The new EP only begins on Nov 1. So, yes.
Is the old EP not sitting?
It is sitting next week.
But in any case, if Article 50 requires ratification of the agreement by the European Parliament, how can we leave before that happens?
Juncker confirms that the European Parliament will pass the deal next week if the HOC passes the deal
If Juncker did say that, it's the opposite of what Verhofstadt said.
Exactly . Juncker has no sway over the EU Parliament, Bozo has been on the phone to say please put pressure on MPs.
Guy V has said they won’t start ratification until the deal is a 100% watertight in the UK.
Too many Leavers are falling for these briefings and equally falling for the no extension nonsense .
In fairness too many of us fell for briefings about no reopening of the WA .
The EU reopened it because it suited them , they always hated the all UK backstop .
One thing that did puzzle me yesterday was a BBC report hat - according to Guy Verhofstadt - the European Parliament wouldn't ratify the deal until well into November. Can that really be correct?
The new EP only begins on Nov 1. So, yes.
Is the old EP not sitting?
It is sitting next week.
But in any case, if Article 50 requires ratification of the agreement by the European Parliament, how can we leave before that happens?
Juncker confirms that the European Parliament will pass the deal next week if the HOC passes the deal
If Juncker did say that, it's the opposite of what Verhofstadt said.
Exactly . Juncker has no sway over the EU Parliament, Bozo has been on the phone to say please put pressure on MPs.
Guy V has said they won’t start ratification until the deal is a 100% watertight in the UK.
Too many Leavers are falling for these Juncker briefings and equally falling for the no extension nonsense .
I give up. You cannot be listening live to the broadcasts
I don't see what the Letwin Amendment changes. So Letwin passes, Boris sends a letter, EU replies to letter saying "you have a deal, you have the time, ratify it this week, no need for an extension" - then what?
And to my knowledge then the Benn Act's arrow is shot. The letter has been sent, the Act complied with, it would require a new Act to force a new letter.
Precisely. They should be amending to force Benn if the WAIB falls, when it would actually be needed. This is just about embarrassing Johnson
By that time it will be too late . And so what if they’re embarrassing Johnson , his stupid pledge gets what it deserves . And wouldn’t you be a bit pissed off about losing the whip when the ERG have been running riot for 3 years .
I don't think his pledge damages him now....he got the EU to renegotiate the WA and he got a deal to the floor in a sort period of time. If the HoC plays silly buggers yet again, i doubt people are going to blame Boris.
The optics are of one person trying to sort out Brexit and lots of people finding every which way of saying No to every single option while also claiming they still want Brexit. I think the public are sick to the back teeth of the later.
One thing that did puzzle me yesterday was a BBC report hat - according to Guy Verhofstadt - the European Parliament wouldn't ratify the deal until well into November. Can that really be correct?
The new EP only begins on Nov 1. So, yes.
Is the old EP not sitting?
It is sitting next week.
But in any case, if Article 50 requires ratification of the agreement by the European Parliament, how can we leave before that happens?
Juncker confirms that the European Parliament will pass the deal next week if the HOC passes the deal
It’s irrelevant the EU Parliament can only ratify after the full UK process which isn’t going to happen in 5 days .
Actually, Article 50 speaks of the leaving country and the EU Council concluding an agreement only after ratification by the European Parliament, not before.
Again, Juncker said the ratification in the EU Parliament will happen next week if deal passed
One thing that did puzzle me yesterday was a BBC report hat - according to Guy Verhofstadt - the European Parliament wouldn't ratify the deal until well into November. Can that really be correct?
The new EP only begins on Nov 1. So, yes.
Is the old EP not sitting?
It is sitting next week.
But in any case, if Article 50 requires ratification of the agreement by the European Parliament, how can we leave before that happens?
Juncker confirms that the European Parliament will pass the deal next week if the HOC passes the deal
If Juncker did say that, it's the opposite of what Verhofstadt said.
Exactly . Juncker has no sway over the EU Parliament, Bozo has been on the phone to say please put pressure on MPs.
Guy V has said they won’t start ratification until the deal is a 100% watertight in the UK.
Too many Leavers are falling for these briefings and equally falling for the no extension nonsense .
In fairness too many of us fell for briefings about no reopening of the WA .
The EU reopened it because it suited them , they always hated the all UK backstop .
Funny they were so wedded for so long to something they always hated, that we hated too.
One thing that did puzzle me yesterday was a BBC report hat - according to Guy Verhofstadt - the European Parliament wouldn't ratify the deal until well into November. Can that really be correct?
The new EP only begins on Nov 1. So, yes.
Is the old EP not sitting?
It is sitting next week.
But in any case, if Article 50 requires ratification of the agreement by the European Parliament, how can we leave before that happens?
Juncker confirms that the European Parliament will pass the deal next week if the HOC passes the deal
If Juncker did say that, it's the opposite of what Verhofstadt said.
Exactly . Juncker has no sway over the EU Parliament, Bozo has been on the phone to say please put pressure on MPs.
Guy V has said they won’t start ratification until the deal is a 100% watertight in the UK.
Too many Leavers are falling for these Juncker briefings and equally falling for the no extension nonsense .
Both Macron and the Luxembourg PM have said they will refuse extension if the Deal is voted down without a major change like EUref2 or a GE
One thing that did puzzle me yesterday was a BBC report hat - according to Guy Verhofstadt - the European Parliament wouldn't ratify the deal until well into November. Can that really be correct?
The new EP only begins on Nov 1. So, yes.
Is the old EP not sitting?
It is sitting next week.
But in any case, if Article 50 requires ratification of the agreement by the European Parliament, how can we leave before that happens?
Juncker confirms that the European Parliament will pass the deal next week if the HOC passes the deal
It’s irrelevant the EU Parliament can only ratify after the full UK process which isn’t going to happen in 5 days .
Actually, Article 50 speaks of the leaving country and the EU Council concluding an agreement only after ratification by the European Parliament, not before.
Again, Juncker said the ratification in the EU Parliament will happen next week if deal passed
Things appear to be moving Bozo's way. My predictions are looking a bit shaky.
I suppose the one consolation for Labour Leavers if he does win the vote is that we will actually leave. But not on the right terms or with the right political consequences.
Those Labour MPs who are prepared to hoist Bozo aloft as if he has brought home the world cup need to hang their heads in shame. I used to hold Sarah Champion in high regard. More fool me.
But they’d all be pointless because if there’s a majority for a trade deal on different terms, there’s a majority to overturn them.... Well except a referendum now, but there aren’t the numbers for that.
The vote tomorrow is a watershed moment. If Johnson wins tomorrow, then he romps home in a GE. And, HYUFD will tell you the exact number of MPs the Tories will have. The SNP will be other winner.
Not with the SNP on only 39% in the latest poll and No Deal avoided
One thing that did puzzle me yesterday was a BBC report hat - according to Guy Verhofstadt - the European Parliament wouldn't ratify the deal until well into November. Can that really be correct?
The new EP only begins on Nov 1. So, yes.
Is the old EP not sitting?
It is sitting next week.
But in any case, if Article 50 requires ratification of the agreement by the European Parliament, how can we leave before that happens?
Juncker confirms that the European Parliament will pass the deal next week if the HOC passes the deal
It’s irrelevant the EU Parliament can only ratify after the full UK process which isn’t going to happen in 5 days .
Actually, Article 50 speaks of the leaving country and the EU Council concluding an agreement only after ratification by the European Parliament, not before.
Again, Juncker said the ratification in the EU Parliament will happen next week if deal passed
Comments
"At this important time, I want to update you on The Brexit Party’s thoughts on Boris’ proposed deal. The truth is that it would be BRINO, Brexit in name only. We have always stood for a Clean-Break Brexit so we can maximise the Brexit opportunities.
This deal is still a really bad deal. Apart from unnecessarily paying £39 billion, the Political Declaration — which sets the basis for the future Free Trade Agreement with the EU — is full of traps and pitfalls. Despite the warm words, it will heavily restrict our foreign policy and military independence as well as policies on trade, tax, fishing, the environment, social and employment law, competition and state aid. We will have to operate on a “level playing field”. We would not be able to become a high growth, low tax, smartly regulated economy, which the EU is terrified that we could become.
If Boris’ treaty is passed, a transition period of over three years is likely — when we have no voice, no vote and no veto — as the EU sets new rules and laws that discriminate against us.
Any short-term temptation to back this deal will result in huge medium-term regret. It would be a historic mistake. A Clean-Break Brexit is still the right way forward. "
This is a test for Johnson , basically if you’re acting in good faith then the amendment is sensible to allow proper scrutiny of the legislation.
Even now the EU are involved with many difficult issues causing stress and disagreement totally unconnected with brexit so they just want it done, they have had enough
The Commission and Council have confirmed they will pass their own votes next week to exit on the 31st with FTA negotiations to commence immediately on the 1st November
The EU are all geared up for brexit on the 31st and there are going to be a lot of leaders wholly unimpressed if the HOC engineer more delays and believe you me, they will not wear it
I was referring more to the way that the English nationalists evidently see Northern Ireland as dispensable.
I don’t think you’ve thought about what’s likely to be in the WAIB, there’s likely to be some controversial issues there which could see the ERG start playing games .
It’s possible the deal goes through and the WAIB doesn’t .
(a) the shamefulness of denying the Scots a referendum just cos they don't start a terrorist campaign
(b) that Scotland has a land border with another EU nation, ie England, and maritime ones with others. ,
But in any case, if Article 50 requires ratification of the agreement by the European Parliament, how can we leave before that happens?
Is that what the Letwin Amendment is supposed to prevent?
Presumably there wtill still be a QS vote on Monday with the government likely to lose it?
So far as dead cats go getting a deal was a monstrous one.
What election? GE not going to happen anytime soon.
This is an extra insurance policy . Some Tories in a nutshell don’t trust Johnson or the ERG.
Remember similar situation before - amendment passed and Govt then voted against its own (amended) motion.
On the other side of the argument, I get the sense that you and others feel a loyalty to the concept of the union that means you want to convince or compel the Scots. The ultimate expression of that is English people going around thinking they have a right to refuse a referendum for Scotland.
https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1185218295361871873
The more support declares the less likely Letwin passes as it will be unnecesasary
Or does Letwin annul it ?!
Yes, I'm trolling a little, but only a little. They haven't given up.
As a matter of interest did you listen to Juncker yesterday at all
And to my knowledge then the Benn Act's arrow is shot. The letter has been sent, the Act complied with, it would require a new Act to force a new letter.
Can't the government just attach their own version of Letwin to the bill?
"I’ve been making the case for a long time that resolving Brexit was going to require compromise. Tomorrow I will back the PM’s compromise. I hope Parliament will back the deal."
Not sure if that includes tellers though.
Guy V has said they won’t start ratification until the deal is a 100% watertight in the UK.
Too many Leavers are falling for these Juncker briefings and equally falling for the no extension nonsense .
Adam Afriyie? He was the next Tory leader once wasn't he? For about 5 minutes.
Don't you think it's rather strange that if he had said that, Verhofstadt would have said the opposite?
Do we not have any boundaries any more?
The optics are of one person trying to sort out Brexit and lots of people finding every which way of saying No to every single option while also claiming they still want Brexit. I think the public are sick to the back teeth of the later.
I suppose the one consolation for Labour Leavers if he does win the vote is that we will actually leave. But not on the right terms or with the right political consequences.
Those Labour MPs who are prepared to hoist Bozo aloft as if he has brought home the world cup need to hang their heads in shame. I used to hold Sarah Champion in high regard. More fool me.