Apologies if this has already been mentioned, but what time are the votes expected tomorrow? I need to know what time to get up and log on to BBC Parliament via the VPN.
Ian Dunt on Remainiacs the other day said their plan was to delay the deal and then engage in guerilla warfare against miniscule detail to try and bleed support for it.
Refusal for an extension I'd say is unlikely from the EU when push and shove come - but it's not completely out the question.
Refusal is more likely because they will only grant it for Election / Referendum, not more dicking about.
Our PM is unable to guarantee an election (Parliament voted against one twice in September) of Referendum (indicative vote against one earlier in the year in May time).
If he has to say I cannot assure you that either of these conditions will be met, then how or why will the extension be granted? Such uncertainty and trust in HoC would be likely to result in one or more dissenting voices in the EU 27. If the PM won't make the undertaking to comply with the requirements for an extension, who can or will?
Also I don't see how quoting recent events verbatim is against the spirit or fact of the Benn Law.
As I see it each side is grossly exaggerating the negatives to influence their argument
If the deal falls tomorrow and Boris writes a letter the EU will say have another go next week, you have time.
However, if the HOC were to pass a referendum tomorrow that is very different but Corbyn is not putting forward that amendment
If the SNP want to try a vonc on Boris, Corbyn will not vote for it as he is terrified of a wipeout
So if neither a GE or a referendum is voted for tomorrow the EU will almost certainly confirm it is this deal or no deal
And Corbyn will be the most responsible for Brexit
Even more responsible than David Cameron? I think not.
I have never understood the line that David Cameron is to blame. He passed the referendum and we voted. We voted to leave (I voted remain) but if we had voted to remain you would not blame him
If its true that 9 Labour MPs have come out in favour of the deal then I think its over, that should be enough *touch wood*
With Trimble backing the deal too, the DUP should come to their senses and say that on reflection this deal requires NIs consent which was their red line so they can suppor tthis and incidentally there's another billion or two coming to NI to aid with transition.
Of course, the DUP switching at the last moment would almost certainly guarantee this Deal gets over the line. If it wants this deal done, perhaps Brussels could agree to pay for that bridge....
I can't see DUP switching now purely on a bribe. It would be too obvious.
They'd brazen it out. "This is what the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom should have done. We told him that holding out gets results...."
They'd brazen it out. "That is what the Prime Minister does."
If benn is triggered and declined (on the basis the deal has been agreed in principle so there is no need to extend), the last line of defence for remainers/anti no dealers is gone and they risk no deal on any hiccup. They should be keeping the ace up their sleeve
As I see it each side is grossly exaggerating the negatives to influence their argument
If the deal falls tomorrow and Boris writes a letter the EU will say have another go next week, you have time.
However, if the HOC were to pass a referendum tomorrow that is very different but Corbyn is not putting forward that amendment
If the SNP want to try a vonc on Boris, Corbyn will not vote for it as he is terrified of a wipeout
So if neither a GE or a referendum is voted for tomorrow the EU will almost certainly confirm it is this deal or no deal
And Corbyn will be the most responsible for Brexit
Very brave of you as a Tory voter in 2015, 2017 and likely in the next GE to put the responsibility for Brexit on those who have voted against the proposal (or will) and for another referendum....
The kind of taking responsibility for your own actions Johnson would be proud of. I just wonder how plausible you would find it if there was a Labour government putting through policies that the Conservatives didn't have the numbers to defeat or change and then blaming them on the Conservatives...
Pretty unlikely I reckon. You are happy to accept Brexit as the cost of voting Tory so wouldn't it be more honest to own that rather than try to blame your opponents because you want to shirk responsibility for Brexit.
I have voted conservative all my life apart from twice for Blair and of course I support this deal as it fulfills my ambition to leave the EU without causing a no deal and respects the referendum
Corbyn could at this late stage put down a referendum amendment tomorrow and say he would campaign to remain but he is too much of a coward to make the decision and is going to pay a big price at the ballot box
Right, so as someone who wants this Brexit deal to go through can't you see why you might actually have responsibility as opposed to people who don't want it to go through?
Corbyn has whipped for remain before and even made it party policy, but you are too much of an partisan to make the decision to look up that information. It was your Tory party that you vote for that defeated Corbyn and his party when we have repeatedly voted for a second referendum.
The responsibility for us not having a second referendum and us doing Brexit lies almost completely with the Conservative party. As someone who actually wants Brexit to happen it doesn't make sense for you to be looking to blame opponents.
Own your achievements or at least take the Topping route of accepting its crap but preferring the Conservatives for other reasons. A Conservative voter blaming others for Brexit is BS.
Boris to go back to Brussels tonight and say "Sorry guys, deal is off. Head of the Food and Drink Federation preferred the previous version...."
Yes, we've lost the support of one of our most competitive sectors that employs millions of people. But on the upside we now have Mark Francois on board. Full speed ahead for Global Britain, aka the Ship of Fools.
Offer Letwin an alternative. Benn letter to be transmitted if WAIB fails or not voted on by Oct 28.
What is the bloody point? Whatever the length of the extension, we leave once the paperwork is done. We could be granted a ten-year extension, and still (in theory) leave before 31 October if we're ready.
As I see it each side is grossly exaggerating the negatives to influence their argument
If the deal falls tomorrow and Boris writes a letter the EU will say have another go next week, you have time.
However, if the HOC were to pass a referendum tomorrow that is very different but Corbyn is not putting forward that amendment
If the SNP want to try a vonc on Boris, Corbyn will not vote for it as he is terrified of a wipeout
So if neither a GE or a referendum is voted for tomorrow the EU will almost certainly confirm it is this deal or no deal
And Corbyn will be the most responsible for Brexit
Even more responsible than David Cameron? I think not.
I have never understood the line that David Cameron is to blame. He passed the referendum and we voted. We voted to leave (I voted remain) but if we had voted to remain you would not blame him
Cameron should never have got himself into the position where there was a referendum.
Beyond that he deserves all the scorn for running one of the worst campaigns I've ever seen...
As I see it each side is grossly exaggerating the negatives to influence their argument
If the deal falls tomorrow and Boris writes a letter the EU will say have another go next week, you have time.
However, if the HOC were to pass a referendum tomorrow that is very different but Corbyn is not putting forward that amendment
If the SNP want to try a vonc on Boris, Corbyn will not vote for it as he is terrified of a wipeout
So if neither a GE or a referendum is voted for tomorrow the EU will almost certainly confirm it is this deal or no deal
And Corbyn will be the most responsible for Brexit
Very brave of you as a Tory voter in 2015, 2017 and likely in the next GE to put the responsibility for Brexit on those who have voted against the proposal (or will) and for another referendum....
The kind of taking responsibility for your own actions Johnson would be proud of. I just wonder how plausible you would find it if there was a Labour government putting through policies that the Conservatives didn't have the numbers to defeat or change and then blaming them on the Conservatives...
Pretty unlikely I reckon. You are happy to accept Brexit as the cost of voting Tory so wouldn't it be more honest to own that rather than try to blame your opponents because you want to shirk responsibility for Brexit.
I have voted conservative all my life apart from twice for Blair and of course I support this deal as it fulfills my ambition to leave the EU without causing a no deal and respects the referendum
Corbyn could at this late stage put down a referendum amendment tomorrow and say he would campaign to remain but he is too much of a coward to make the decision and is going to pay a big price at the ballot box
Right, so as someone who wants this Brexit deal to go through can't you see why you might actually have responsibility as opposed to people who don't want it to go through?
Corbyn has whipped for remain before and even made it party policy, but you are too much of an partisan to make the decision to look up that information. It was your Tory party that you vote for that defeated Corbyn and his party when we have repeatedly voted for a second referendum.
The responsibility for us not having a second referendum and us doing Brexit lies almost completely with the Conservative party. As someone who actually wants Brexit to happen it doesn't make sense for you to be looking to blame opponents.
Own your achievements or at least take the Topping route of accepting its crap but preferring the Conservatives for other reasons. A Conservative voter blaming others for Brexit is BS.
I just disagree with you and that is the way it is
Very brave of you as a Tory voter in 2015, 2017 and likely in the next GE to put the responsibility for Brexit on those who have voted against the proposal (or will) and for another referendum....
Unless we're getting into the realms of thought crimes the key vote was in 2016 for Brexit. You voted to leave iirc and Big G voted to remain. Labour had a commitment to leave the EU iirc in the 2017 election too.
Offer Letwin an alternative. Benn letter to be transmitted if WAIB fails or not voted on by Oct 28.
What is the bloody point? Whatever the length of the extension, we leave once the paperwork is done. We could be granted a ten-year extension, and still (in theory) leave before 31 October if we're ready.
The point is Letwin is currently trying to force the letter tomorrow, the EU have made it pretty clear they arent going to extend, especially if the deal has been agreed (in principle in this case) so they decline an extension and no deal becomes a real possibility again if the WAIB falls. Only a moron like Letwin could come up with such a stupid amendment
Except, Beth, any one EU leader can say "Sod it. That's it. No more extensions." And then that action by one becomes the EU's default position of the 27.
The nuclear button is also with Remainers if necessary. If all else fails, VoNC the government, new GNU government and then REVOKE. All legal.
As I see it each side is grossly exaggerating the negatives to influence their argument
If the deal falls tomorrow and Boris writes a letter the EU will say have another go next week, you have time.
However, if the HOC were to pass a referendum tomorrow that is very different but Corbyn is not putting forward that amendment
If the SNP want to try a vonc on Boris, Corbyn will not vote for it as he is terrified of a wipeout
So if neither a GE or a referendum is voted for tomorrow the EU will almost certainly confirm it is this deal or no deal
And Corbyn will be the most responsible for Brexit
Even more responsible than David Cameron? I think not.
I have never understood the line that David Cameron is to blame. He passed the referendum and we voted. We voted to leave (I voted remain) but if we had voted to remain you would not blame him
How could any Tory possibly bear any responsibility, after all you vote for them...
As I see it each side is grossly exaggerating the negatives to influence their argument
If the deal falls tomorrow and Boris writes a letter the EU will say have another go next week, you have time.
However, if the HOC were to pass a referendum tomorrow that is very different but Corbyn is not putting forward that amendment
If the SNP want to try a vonc on Boris, Corbyn will not vote for it as he is terrified of a wipeout
So if neither a GE or a referendum is voted for tomorrow the EU will almost certainly confirm it is this deal or no deal
And Corbyn will be the most responsible for Brexit
Even more responsible than David Cameron? I think not.
I have never understood the line that David Cameron is to blame. He passed the referendum and we voted. We voted to leave (I voted remain) but if we had voted to remain you would not blame him
He put party before country. He held the referendum early to try and give the tories more time to heal before the next election. He refused to go blue on blue even as his ministers undermined him and lied. He adopted an entire campaigning strategy based on the idea the Sindy Ref campaign had been a success.
And all to avoid shedding a few percentage points to UKIP.
Cameron was a fucking failure and hugely responsible.
Except, Beth, any one EU leader can say "Sod it. That's it. No more extensions." And then that action by one becomes the EU's default position of the 27.
The nuclear button is also with Remainers if necessary. If all else fails, VoNC the government, new GNU government and then REVOKE. All legal.
As I see it each side is grossly exaggerating the negatives to influence their argument
If the deal falls tomorrow and Boris writes a letter the EU will say have another go next week, you have time.
However, if the HOC were to pass a referendum tomorrow that is very different but Corbyn is not putting forward that amendment
If the SNP want to try a vonc on Boris, Corbyn will not vote for it as he is terrified of a wipeout
So if neither a GE or a referendum is voted for tomorrow the EU will almost certainly confirm it is this deal or no deal
And Corbyn will be the most responsible for Brexit
Even more responsible than David Cameron? I think not.
I have never understood the line that David Cameron is to blame. He passed the referendum and we voted. We voted to leave (I voted remain) but if we had voted to remain you would not blame him
Cameron should never have got himself into the position where there was a referendum.
Beyond that he deserves all the scorn for running one of the worst campaigns I've ever seen...
Absolutely.
The fact that over 50% of those who could be bothered to vote means that the views they have should not be sought, acted on or considered.
What a fool to he is.
If you think Cameron was the cause of the referendum I think you may need to look somewhere else and take on a wider perspective. Sure, it may have suited him politically, but there was a deep well of seething angst, discontent and vitriol in a substantial portion of the populace. To ignore it and allow it to grow and fester would be the irresponsible choice.
I’d be very dubious of Campbell changing his mind . He seemed resolute last night on Newsnight .
Why would he say it unless he was indeed considering it? Is he a liar?
Om another point I still dont know how the FT arrived at such a close vote estimate. If they are right a bare handful of extra labour are all that is needed, which is doable.
Offer Letwin an alternative. Benn letter to be transmitted if WAIB fails or not voted on by Oct 28.
What is the bloody point? Whatever the length of the extension, we leave once the paperwork is done. We could be granted a ten-year extension, and still (in theory) leave before 31 October if we're ready.
The point is Letwin is currently trying to force the letter tomorrow, the EU have made it pretty clear they arent going to extend, especially if the deal has been agreed (in principle in this case) so they decline an extension and no deal becomes a real possibility again if the WAIB falls. Only a moron like Letwin could come up with such a stupid amendment
But of course, the EU haven't made it clear they aren't going to extend - they've just been making a lot of noises about the undesirability of extending, obviously intended to encourage MPs to vote in favour, but incapable of deceiving a small child.
The only problem here is Johnson's idiotic self-imposed deadline. Wouldn't it be great if everyone else ignored the child in the room and started behaving like adults?
Offer Letwin an alternative. Benn letter to be transmitted if WAIB fails or not voted on by Oct 28.
What is the bloody point? Whatever the length of the extension, we leave once the paperwork is done. We could be granted a ten-year extension, and still (in theory) leave before 31 October if we're ready.
The point is Letwin is currently trying to force the letter tomorrow, the EU have made it pretty clear they arent going to extend, especially if the deal has been agreed (in principle in this case) so they decline an extension and no deal becomes a real possibility again if the WAIB falls. Only a moron like Letwin could come up with such a stupid amendment
The EU won't reply to the request for an extension until after the WAIB for the reasons you give.
There's a majority against no deal in the Commons. That's not the same thing as a majority in favour of straight revocation, without a referendum, having rejected a deal.
If you think Cameron was the cause of the referendum I think you may need to look somewhere else and take on a wider perspective. Sure, it may have suited him politically, but there was a deep well of seething angst, discontent and vitriol in a substantial portion of the populace. To ignore it and allow it to grow and fester would be the irresponsible choice.
Except, Beth, any one EU leader can say "Sod it. That's it. No more extensions." And then that action by one becomes the EU's default position of the 27.
The nuclear button is also with Remainers if necessary. If all else fails, VoNC the government, new GNU government and then REVOKE. All legal.
As I see it each side is grossly exaggerating the negatives to influence their argument
If the deal falls tomorrow and Boris writes a letter the EU will say have another go next week, you have time.
However, if the HOC were to pass a referendum tomorrow that is very different but Corbyn is not putting forward that amendment
If the SNP want to try a vonc on Boris, Corbyn will not vote for it as he is terrified of a wipeout
So if neither a GE or a referendum is voted for tomorrow the EU will almost certainly confirm it is this deal or no deal
And Corbyn will be the most responsible for Brexit
Even more responsible than David Cameron? I think not.
I have never understood the line that David Cameron is to blame. He passed the referendum and we voted. We voted to leave (I voted remain) but if we had voted to remain you would not blame him
How could any Tory possibly bear any responsibility, after all you vote for them...
It was all the nasty oppositions fault.
Do not be silly.
Of course it is not all the oppositions fault. I blame the ERG in the first instance but now we have a deal and are facing a no deal crash out in just over 10 days it is incumbent on Corbyn to act as a statesman and either back the deal or lay a referendum amendment
Very brave of you as a Tory voter in 2015, 2017 and likely in the next GE to put the responsibility for Brexit on those who have voted against the proposal (or will) and for another referendum....
Unless we're getting into the realms of thought crimes the key vote was in 2016 for Brexit. You voted to leave iirc and Big G voted to remain. Labour had a commitment to leave the EU iirc in the 2017 election too.
The me voting leave part is inaccurate, I was even someone who signed the second referendum and revoke petitions on the Westminster petitions thing.
Nothing to do with thought crimes, you don't think people voting Tory in 2015 and 2017 made Brexit more likely?
Corbyn has come around to a referendum as have other parties, basically less Tories (and DUP who Big G couldn't vote for) means more chance of a referendum and less chance of Brexit happening.
I think it is fairly obvious why a Tory vote in 2015 has led to Brexit.
And then if we have a future election with Brexit still in the air voting Tory then would be voting for Brexit.
So someone who has repeatedly voted Tory and plans to continue doing so blaming others for Brexit is BS IMO.
Very brave of you as a Tory voter in 2015, 2017 and likely in the next GE to put the responsibility for Brexit on those who have voted against the proposal (or will) and for another referendum....
Unless we're getting into the realms of thought crimes the key vote was in 2016 for Brexit. You voted to leave iirc and Big G voted to remain. Labour had a commitment to leave the EU iirc in the 2017 election too.
The me voting leave part is inaccurate, I was even someone who signed the second referendum and revoke petitions on the Westminster petitions thing.
Nothing to do with thought crimes, you don't think people voting Tory in 2015 and 2017 made Brexit more likely?
Corbyn has come around to a referendum as have other parties, basically less Tories (and DUP who Big G couldn't vote for) means more chance of a referendum and less chance of Brexit happening.
I think it is fairly obvious why a Tory vote in 2015 has led to Brexit.
And then if we have a future election with Brexit still in the air voting Tory then would be voting for Brexit.
So someone who has repeatedly voted Tory and plans to continue doing so blaming others for Brexit is BS IMO.
Phew I'm off the hook then. I voted Green in 2015.
Also my apologies on the "vote leave" for yourself bit, I was thinking of @Justin1123
Nothing changes. Jezza managed to condemn the new deal before the text had even been released....
Do you think he would support a Tory Deal ? I thought you wanted to pass off as an intelligent person.
Perhaps, at least wait until the text has been released, wait a few hours to make it look like you might have read it and then find reasons why you don't think it is a good deal.
Screaming bad evil Tory deal before the deal has even been made public (given the supposed position of respecting the referendum and wanting to get a deal) makes you look like a moron.
Offer Letwin an alternative. Benn letter to be transmitted if WAIB fails or not voted on by Oct 28.
What is the bloody point? Whatever the length of the extension, we leave once the paperwork is done. We could be granted a ten-year extension, and still (in theory) leave before 31 October if we're ready.
The point is Letwin is currently trying to force the letter tomorrow, the EU have made it pretty clear they arent going to extend, especially if the deal has been agreed (in principle in this case) so they decline an extension and no deal becomes a real possibility again if the WAIB falls. Only a moron like Letwin could come up with such a stupid amendment
But of course, the EU haven't made it clear they aren't going to extend - they've just been making a lot of noises about the undesirability of extending, obviously intended to encourage MPs to vote in favour, but incapable of deceiving a small child.
The only problem here is Johnson's idiotic self-imposed deadline. Wouldn't it be great if everyone else ignored the child in the room and started behaving like adults?
They have stated pretty clearly any extension is for a reason.
Johnson is unable to assure them that he or Parliament can deliver the reason for an extension. (Election or Referendum the numbers can not be guaranteed).
If you think Cameron was the cause of the referendum I think you may need to look somewhere else and take on a wider perspective. Sure, it may have suited him politically, but there was a deep well of seething angst, discontent and vitriol in a substantial portion of the populace. To ignore it and allow it to grow and fester would be the irresponsible choice.
Offer Letwin an alternative. Benn letter to be transmitted if WAIB fails or not voted on by Oct 28.
What is the bloody point? Whatever the length of the extension, we leave once the paperwork is done. We could be granted a ten-year extension, and still (in theory) leave before 31 October if we're ready.
The point is Letwin is currently trying to force the letter tomorrow, the EU have made it pretty clear they arent going to extend, especially if the deal has been agreed (in principle in this case) so they decline an extension and no deal becomes a real possibility again if the WAIB falls. Only a moron like Letwin could come up with such a stupid amendment
But of course, the EU haven't made it clear they aren't going to extend - they've just been making a lot of noises about the undesirability of extending, obviously intended to encourage MPs to vote in favour, but incapable of deceiving a small child.
The only problem here is Johnson's idiotic self-imposed deadline. Wouldn't it be great if everyone else ignored the child in the room and started behaving like adults?
They have stated pretty clearly any extension is for a reason.
Johnson is unable to assure them that he or Parliament can deliver the reason for an extension. (Election or Referendum the numbers can not be guaranteed).
That could easily lead to no extension.
The EU refusing an extension after tomorrow's vote is (hopefully) passed would be Game Set Match for Johnson
Offer Letwin an alternative. Benn letter to be transmitted if WAIB fails or not voted on by Oct 28.
What is the bloody point? Whatever the length of the extension, we leave once the paperwork is done. We could be granted a ten-year extension, and still (in theory) leave before 31 October if we're ready.
The point is Letwin is currently trying to force the letter tomorrow, the EU have made it pretty clear they arent going to extend, especially if the deal has been agreed (in principle in this case) so they decline an extension and no deal becomes a real possibility again if the WAIB falls. Only a moron like Letwin could come up with such a stupid amendment
But of course, the EU haven't made it clear they aren't going to extend - they've just been making a lot of noises about the undesirability of extending, obviously intended to encourage MPs to vote in favour, but incapable of deceiving a small child.
The only problem here is Johnson's idiotic self-imposed deadline. Wouldn't it be great if everyone else ignored the child in the room and started behaving like adults?
They have stated pretty clearly any extension is for a reason.
Johnson is unable to assure them that he or Parliament can deliver the reason for an extension. (Election or Referendum the numbers can not be guaranteed).
That could easily lead to no extension.
The EU refusing an extension after tomorrow's vote is (hopefully) passed would be Game Set Match for Johnson
I would have thought that if the EU really want to get this passed, if it fails tomorrow, they will say no extension, have another go. That's normally the EU approach when people give the wrong answer.
Offer Letwin an alternative. Benn letter to be transmitted if WAIB fails or not voted on by Oct 28.
What is the bloody point? Whatever the length of the extension, we leave once the paperwork is done. We could be granted a ten-year extension, and still (in theory) leave before 31 October if we're ready.
The point is Letwin is currently trying to force the letter tomorrow, the EU have made it pretty clear they arent going to extend, especially if the deal has been agreed (in principle in this case) so they decline an extension and no deal becomes a real possibility again if the WAIB falls. Only a moron like Letwin could come up with such a stupid amendment
But of course, the EU haven't made it clear they aren't going to extend - they've just been making a lot of noises about the undesirability of extending, obviously intended to encourage MPs to vote in favour, but incapable of deceiving a small child.
The only problem here is Johnson's idiotic self-imposed deadline. Wouldn't it be great if everyone else ignored the child in the room and started behaving like adults?
They have stated pretty clearly any extension is for a reason.
Johnson is unable to assure them that he or Parliament can deliver the reason for an extension. (Election or Referendum the numbers can not be guaranteed).
That could easily lead to no extension.
You can come out with as much wishful thinking as you like. The EU has certainly not made clear that they aren't going to extend, which was the claim.
Offer Letwin an alternative. Benn letter to be transmitted if WAIB fails or not voted on by Oct 28.
What is the bloody point? Whatever the length of the extension, we leave once the paperwork is done. We could be granted a ten-year extension, and still (in theory) leave before 31 October if we're ready.
The point is Letwin is currently trying to force the letter tomorrow, the EU have made it pretty clear they arent going to extend, especially if the deal has been agreed (in principle in this case) so they decline an extension and no deal becomes a real possibility again if the WAIB falls. Only a moron like Letwin could come up with such a stupid amendment
But of course, the EU haven't made it clear they aren't going to extend - they've just been making a lot of noises about the undesirability of extending, obviously intended to encourage MPs to vote in favour, but incapable of deceiving a small child.
The only problem here is Johnson's idiotic self-imposed deadline. Wouldn't it be great if everyone else ignored the child in the room and started behaving like adults?
They have stated pretty clearly any extension is for a reason.
Johnson is unable to assure them that he or Parliament can deliver the reason for an extension. (Election or Referendum the numbers can not be guaranteed).
That could easily lead to no extension.
They demanded reasons last time, or at the least that we had a plan for coming to a resolution. We didnt and they still extended. It was their first major blink - showing they will never call time, even if it is in their intetest.
Comments
Back the deal to pass and No deal is the play... at better odds!
Glad I am not forced to bet on this.
Our PM is unable to guarantee an election (Parliament voted against one twice in September) of Referendum (indicative vote against one earlier in the year in May time).
If he has to say I cannot assure you that either of these conditions will be met, then how or why will the extension be granted? Such uncertainty and trust in HoC would be likely to result in one or more dissenting voices in the EU 27. If the PM won't make the undertaking to comply with the requirements for an extension, who can or will?
Also I don't see how quoting recent events verbatim is against the spirit or fact of the Benn Law.
Corbyn has whipped for remain before and even made it party policy, but you are too much of an partisan to make the decision to look up that information. It was your Tory party that you vote for that defeated Corbyn and his party when we have repeatedly voted for a second referendum.
The responsibility for us not having a second referendum and us doing Brexit lies almost completely with the Conservative party. As someone who actually wants Brexit to happen it doesn't make sense for you to be looking to blame opponents.
Own your achievements or at least take the Topping route of accepting its crap but preferring the Conservatives for other reasons. A Conservative voter blaming others for Brexit is BS.
And of course if that is lost that ends the referendum extension with the EU
Apart from that, moderately blameless
Beyond that he deserves all the scorn for running one of the worst campaigns I've ever seen...
You voted to leave iirc and Big G voted to remain. Labour had a commitment to leave the EU iirc in the 2017 election too.
Only a moron like Letwin could come up with such a stupid amendment
It was all the nasty oppositions fault.
Anyone watching the spacewalks live ?
And all to avoid shedding a few percentage points to UKIP.
Cameron was a fucking failure and hugely responsible.
Con 1/3
Lab 3/1
LD 12/1
Bxp 20/1
The fact that over 50% of those who could be bothered to vote means that the views they have should not be sought, acted on or considered.
What a fool to he is.
If you think Cameron was the cause of the referendum I think you may need to look somewhere else and take on a wider perspective. Sure, it may have suited him politically, but there was a deep well of seething angst, discontent and vitriol in a substantial portion of the populace. To ignore it and allow it to grow and fester would be the irresponsible choice.
Meaningful vote to pass now 1.6 on Betfair!
Om another point I still dont know how the FT arrived at such a close vote estimate. If they are right a bare handful of extra labour are all that is needed, which is doable. Oh, big tough Macron will actually follow through this time will he?
The others should have listened to him before, we could have shortcutted all this.
The only problem here is Johnson's idiotic self-imposed deadline. Wouldn't it be great if everyone else ignored the child in the room and started behaving like adults?
There's a majority against no deal in the Commons. That's not the same thing as a majority in favour of straight revocation, without a referendum, having rejected a deal.
This is the kind of Brexit that doesn't tip people over the edge to full blown Indy support.
Of course it is not all the oppositions fault. I blame the ERG in the first instance but now we have a deal and are facing a no deal crash out in just over 10 days it is incumbent on Corbyn to act as a statesman and either back the deal or lay a referendum amendment
Nothing to do with thought crimes, you don't think people voting Tory in 2015 and 2017 made Brexit more likely?
Corbyn has come around to a referendum as have other parties, basically less Tories (and DUP who Big G couldn't vote for) means more chance of a referendum and less chance of Brexit happening.
I think it is fairly obvious why a Tory vote in 2015 has led to Brexit.
And then if we have a future election with Brexit still in the air voting Tory then would be voting for Brexit.
So someone who has repeatedly voted Tory and plans to continue doing so blaming others for Brexit is BS IMO.
Also my apologies on the "vote leave" for yourself bit, I was thinking of @Justin1123
Your whole DNA has been anti brexit and if this passes tomorrow you will be gutted along with many other remainers
But if remainers are sensible they will seek to campaign to rejoin which is the obvious thing to do
Screaming bad evil Tory deal before the deal has even been made public (given the supposed position of respecting the referendum and wanting to get a deal) makes you look like a moron.
Johnson is unable to assure them that he or Parliament can deliver the reason for an extension. (Election or Referendum the numbers can not be guaranteed).
That could easily lead to no extension.
The main thing was to avoid No Deal for most Scots, this Deal does it
From Guardianistas to Leave.EU who could have thought such a strange spectrum would back his deal?
Of course he can do as he likes, but in this case that and precedent probably align.
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/03/29/meaningful-vote-3-britons-are-still-split-whether-
Occasionally entertaining or interesting, but not to be taken seriously.
I have said, many times, the only way to kill the Brexit virus is for it to burn itself out.