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  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480
    edited October 2019
    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Re: Absolute fucking drivel on the previous thread about a hypothetical UK/Spain armed conflict over which country's sailors get to frequent the Donkey's Flipflop in Gibraltar.

    All of the "analysis" presented omits any mention of NAVSTA Rota. This is the strategic gateway to the Med and a very important USN base. There would therefore be no armed conflict in that area for the simple reason that the US would not permit it.

    The US was neutral in the Falklands War and would be neutral in any UK Spain war if Spain invaded Gibraltar too
    The Falklands were not contested on the figurative doorstep of a massive US naval base.

    You'd better hope the US won't be neutral or your War of the Spanish Delusion won't be happening as British forces now have zero electronic warfare or air suppression capabilities. So there no possibility of autonomous expeditionary warfare against a peer military like Spain outside of a US led coalition.
    The UK has more troops than Spain, more tanks than Spain, more aircraft carriers than Spain, better special forces than Spain and more nuclear submarines than Spain, including nuclear weapons which Spain does not have.


    A Spanish invasion of Gibraltar would be met with the full force of the British military with victory to be achieved no matter what the cost.

    Any US naval base would be untouched but beyond that British forces would take all actions necessary to liberate Gibraltar and would do so with or without US help
    Err, No...
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    HYUFD said:




    A Spanish invasion of Gibraltar would be met with the full force of the British military with victory to be achieved no matter what the cost.

    Any US naval base would be untouched but beyond that British forces would take all actions necessary to liberate Gibraltar and would do so with or without US help

    Here's what would happen: The US would tell us not to do it and any normal UK PM wouldn't. If we had a Filthy Piece of Toerag (Boris) as PM who was stupid enough to do it anyway then they would start a massive sensor jamming operation, degrade GPS and reset the UK's password to ALIS grounding the F35s.

    This all radged. Do some of your British Army counter insurgency ops on Scotland stuff; it's more believable.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753
    Carnyx said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Re: Absolute fucking drivel on the previous thread about a hypothetical UK/Spain armed conflict over which country's sailors get to frequent the Donkey's Flipflop in Gibraltar.

    All of the "analysis" presented omits any mention of NAVSTA Rota. This is the strategic gateway to the Med and a very important USN base. There would therefore be no armed conflict in that area for the simple reason that the US would not permit it.

    Oh, someone made pretty much that point all right, if it makes you feel happier.

    @Foxy
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753

    TOPPING said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Re: Absolute fucking drivel on the previous thread about a hypothetical UK/Spain armed conflict over which country's sailors get to frequent the Donkey's Flipflop in Gibraltar.

    All of the "analysis" presented omits any mention of NAVSTA Rota. This is the strategic gateway to the Med and a very important USN base. There would therefore be no armed conflict in that area for the simple reason that the US would not permit it.

    HEY!!!!!!!

    That was one of if not the funniest thread ever to have developed on PB in years.
    I bet it still was not as good as the one Plato and I started about leftover vegetables i the kitchen club. That one ran all day.
    I was crying with laughter at this one but maybe not.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,894
    Andy_JS said:

    Latest Canadian forecast:

    Lib 137
    Con 135
    BQ 33
    NDP 28
    Grn 4
    PPC 1

    https://newsinteractives.cbc.ca/elections/poll-tracker/canada/

    Which are the likely "blocs" ?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,277
    edited October 2019
    kyf_100 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Re: Absolute fucking drivel on the previous thread about a hypothetical UK/Spain armed conflict over which country's sailors get to frequent the Donkey's Flipflop in Gibraltar.

    All of the "analysis" presented omits any mention of NAVSTA Rota. This is the strategic gateway to the Med and a very important USN base. There would therefore be no armed conflict in that area for the simple reason that the US would not permit it.

    The US was neutral in the Falklands War and would be neutral in any UK Spain war if Spain invaded Gibraltar too
    The Falklands were not contested on the figurative doorstep of a massive US naval base.

    You'd better hope the US won't be neutral or your War of the Spanish Delusion won't be happening as British forces now have zero electronic warfare or air suppression capabilities. So there no possibility of autonomous expeditionary warfare against a peer military like Spain outside of a US led coalition.
    The UK has more troops than Spain, more tanks than Spain, more aircraft carriers than Spain, better special forces than Spain and more nuclear submarines than Spain, including nuclear weapons which Spain does not have.


    A Spanish invasion of Gibraltar would be met with the full force of the British military with victory to be achieved no matter what the cost.

    Any US naval base would be untouched but beyond that British forces would take all actions necessary to liberate Gibraltar and would do so with or without US help
    You really think the US are going to stand by and watch as we nuke Spain?

    Hell, can we even fire them without the US being able to flick the off switch whenever they want?
    The US can say what they want but they are not going to attack an ally and fellow UN Security Council permanent member and nuclear weapons power for defending itself from invasion.

    Plus

    https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/no-america-doesnt-control-britains-nuclear-weapons/
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,277
    Pulpstar said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Latest Canadian forecast:

    Lib 137
    Con 135
    BQ 33
    NDP 28
    Grn 4
    PPC 1

    https://newsinteractives.cbc.ca/elections/poll-tracker/canada/

    Which are the likely "blocs" ?
    NDP leader Singh has now said he will form a coalition Government with Trudeau if necessary to prevent Scheer becoming PM
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,586
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Re: Absolute fucking drivel on the previous thread about a hypothetical UK/Spain armed conflict over which country's sailors get to frequent the Donkey's Flipflop in Gibraltar.

    All of the "analysis" presented omits any mention of NAVSTA Rota. This is the strategic gateway to the Med and a very important USN base. There would therefore be no armed conflict in that area for the simple reason that the US would not permit it.

    The US was neutral in the Falklands War and would be neutral in any UK Spain war if Spain invaded Gibraltar too
    The Falklands were not contested on the figurative doorstep of a massive US naval base.

    You'd better hope the US won't be neutral or your War of the Spanish Delusion won't be happening as British forces now have zero electronic warfare or air suppression capabilities. So there no possibility of autonomous expeditionary warfare against a peer military like Spain outside of a US led coalition.
    The UK has more troops than Spain, more tanks than Spain, more aircraft carriers than Spain, better special forces than Spain and more nuclear submarines than Spain, including nuclear weapons which Spain does not have.


    A Spanish invasion of Gibraltar would be met with the full force of the British military with victory to be achieved no matter what the cost.

    Any US naval base would be untouched but beyond that British forces would take all actions necessary to liberate Gibraltar whatever the US did or did not say
    I think the biggest problem would be landing these troops, tanks and special forces in Gibraltar in a theoretical UK/Spanish conflict. Although the UK has superior quantity and arguably quality when it comes to military resources, they would still need to transport them around the Iberian peninsula and then stage a naval invasion, which is tough at the best of times.

    Of course, when fighting a non nuclear power, nuclear weapons are meaningless unless the UK intends to become a pariah state; Spain doesn't need to worry about nukes at all as the UK will never risk the immediate sanctions and interventions that would follow a nuclear first strike by an middle nation on a non nucleat country.
    The Royal Gibraltar Regiment already garrisons Gibraltar, special forces and the SAS would simply be landed and parachuted in to support them and provide arms to the local population to fight guerrilla warfare against the Spanish invaders.

    Nuclear weapons are only to be used to defend UK territory but of course Gibraltar is British territory
    Blimey, what are you taking tonight @HYUFD ?
  • Time to go

    Any talk of nuking Spain or the like is beyond the pale

    And so another incident packed day to look forward to tomorrow

    And so I wish you all a very good night's rest
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753
    edited October 2019
    HYUFD said:

    kyf_100 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Re: Absolute fucking drivel on the previous thread about a hypothetical UK/Spain armed conflict over which country's sailors get to frequent the Donkey's Flipflop in Gibraltar.

    All of the "analysis" presented omits any mention of NAVSTA Rota. This is the strategic gateway to the Med and a very important USN base. There would therefore be no armed conflict in that area for the simple reason that the US would not permit it.

    The US was neutral in the Falklands War and would be neutral in any UK Spain war if Spain invaded Gibraltar too
    The Falklands were not contested on the figurative doorstep of a massive US naval base.

    You'd better hope the US won't be neutral or your War of the Spanish Delusion won't be happening as British forces now have zero electronic warfare or air suppression capabilities. So there no possibility of autonomous expeditionary warfare against a peer military like Spain outside of a US led coalition.
    The UK has more troops than Spain, more tanks than Spain, more aircraft carriers than Spain, better special forces than Spain and more nuclear submarines than Spain, including nuclear weapons which Spain does not have.


    A Spanish invasion of Gibraltar would be met with the full force of the British military with victory to be achieved no matter what the cost.

    Any US naval base would be untouched but beyond that British forces would take all actions necessary to liberate Gibraltar and would do so with or without US help
    You really think the US are going to stand by and watch as we nuke Spain?

    Hell, can we even fire them without the US being able to flick the off switch whenever they want?
    The US can say what they want but they are not going to attack an ally and fellow UN Security Council permanent member and nuclear weapons power for defending itself from invasion.
    But are happy to invade one of that country's territories.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,171
    Pulpstar said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Latest Canadian forecast:

    Lib 137
    Con 135
    BQ 33
    NDP 28
    Grn 4
    PPC 1

    https://newsinteractives.cbc.ca/elections/poll-tracker/canada/

    Which are the likely "blocs" ?
    BQ have said they won't work with anyone. NDP have said they won't work with the Conservatives. I assume PPC would work with the Conservatives. The most likely coalition is probably Lib + NDP + Grn. But on this forecast they're still short of a majority.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,873

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Re: Absolute fucking drivel on the previous thread about a hypothetical UK/Spain armed conflict over which country's sailors get to frequent the Donkey's Flipflop in Gibraltar.

    All of the "analysis" presented omits any mention of NAVSTA Rota. This is the strategic gateway to the Med and a very important USN base. There would therefore be no armed conflict in that area for the simple reason that the US would not permit it.

    The US was neutral in the Falklands War and would be neutral in any UK Spain war if Spain invaded Gibraltar too
    The Falklands were not contested on the figurative doorstep of a massive US naval base.

    You'd better hope the US won't be neutral or your War of the Spanish Delusion won't be happening as British forces now have zero electronic warfare or air suppression capabilities. So there no possibility of autonomous expeditionary warfare against a peer military like Spain outside of a US led coalition.
    The UK has more troops than Spain, more tanks than Spain, more aircraft carriers than Spain, better special forces than Spain and more nuclear submarines than Spain, including nuclear weapons which Spain does not have.


    A Spanish invasion of Gibraltar would be met with the full force of the British military with victory to be achieved no matter what the cost.

    Any US naval base would be untouched but beyond that British forces would take all actions necessary to liberate Gibraltar whatever the US did or did not say
    I think tntry.
    The Royal Gibraltar Regiment already garrisons Gibraltar, special forces and the SAS would simply be landed and parachuted in to support them and provide arms to the local population to fight guerrilla warfare against the Spanish invaders.

    Nuclear weapons are only to be used to defend UK territory but of course Gibraltar is British territory
    Blimey, what are you taking tonight @HYUFD ?
    The po faced seriousness of discussing nuclear conflict with Spain rather reveals, I suspect, the mask of the parody slipping. And it was so convincing on other issues as well. Good japes though.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,586

    Time to go

    Any talk of nuking Spain or the like is beyond the pale

    And so another incident packed day to look forward to tomorrow

    And so I wish you all a very good night's rest

    Goodnight Big_G. I think Gibraltar is probably safe until tomorrow at least :lol:
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,736
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Re: Absolute fucking drivel on the previous thread about a hypothetical UK/Spain armed conflict over which country's sailors get to frequent the Donkey's Flipflop in Gibraltar.

    All of the "analysis" presented omits any mention of NAVSTA Rota. This is the strategic gateway to the Med and a very important USN base. There would therefore be no armed conflict in that area for the simple reason that the US would not permit it.

    The US was neutral in the Falklands War and would be neutral in any UK Spain war if Spain invaded Gibraltar too
    The Falklands were not contested on the figurative doorstep of a massive US naval base.

    You'd better hope the US won't be neutral or your War of the Spanish Delusion won't be happening as British forces now have zero electronic warfare or air suppression capabilities. So there no possibility of autonomous expeditionary warfare against a peer military like Spain outside of a US led coalition.
    The UK has more troops than Spain, more tanks than Spain, more aircraft carriers than Spain, better special forces than Spain and more nuclear submarines than Spain, including nuclear weapons which Spain does not have.


    A Spanish invasion of Gibraltar would be met with the full force of the British military with victory to be achieved no matter what the cost.

    Any US naval base would be untouched but beyond that British forces would take all actions necessary to liberate Gibraltar whatever the US did or did not say
    I think the biggest problem would be landing these troops, tanks and special forces in Gibraltar in a theoretical UK/Spanish conflict. Although the UK has superior quantity and arguably quality when it comes to military resources, they would still need to transport them around the Iberian peninsula and then stage a naval invasion, which is tough at the best of times.

    Of course, when fighting a non nuclear power, nuclear weapons are meaningless unless the UK intends to become a pariah state; Spain doesn't need to worry about nukes at all as the UK will never risk the immediate sanctions and interventions that would follow a nuclear first strike by an middle nation on a non nucleat country.
    The Royal Gibraltar Regiment already garrisons Gibraltar, special forces and the SAS would simply be landed and parachuted in to support them and provide arms to the local population to fight guerrilla warfare against the Spanish invaders.

    Nuclear weapons are only to be used to defend UK territory but of course Gibraltar is British territory
    Stark raving mad.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Re: Absolute fucking drivel on the previous thread about a hypothetical UK/Spain armed conflict over which country's sailors get to frequent the Donkey's Flipflop in Gibraltar.

    All of the "analysis" presented omits any mention of NAVSTA Rota. This is the strategic gateway to the Med and a very important USN base. There would therefore be no armed conflict in that area for the simple reason that the US would not permit it.

    The US was neutral in the Falklands War and would be neutral in any UK Spain war if Spain invaded Gibraltar too
    The Falklands were not contested on the figurative doorstep of a massive US naval base.

    You'd better hope the US won't be neutral or your War of the Spanish Delusion won't be happening as British forces now have zero electronic warfare or air suppression capabilities. So there no possibility of autonomous expeditionary warfare against a peer military like Spain outside of a US led coalition.
    The UK has more troops than Spain, more tanks than Spain, more aircraft carriers than Spain, better special forces than Spain and more nuclear submarines than Spain, including nuclear weapons which Spain does not have.


    A Spanish invasion of Gibraltar would be met with the full force of the British military with victory to be achieved no matter what the cost.

    Any US naval base would be untouched but beyond that British forces would take all actions necessary to liberate Gibraltar whatever the US did or did not say
    I think the biggest problem would be landing these troops, tanks and special forces in Gibraltar in a theoretical UK/Spanish conflict. Although the UK has superior quantity and arguably quality when it comes to military resources, they would still need to transport them around the Iberian peninsula and then stage a naval invasion, which is tough at the best of times.

    Of course, when fighting a non nuclear power, nuclear weapons are meaningless unless the UK intends to become a pariah state; Spain doesn't need to worry about nukes at all as the UK will never risk the immediate sanctions and interventions that would follow a nuclear first strike by an middle nation on a non nucleat country.
    The Royal Gibraltar Regiment already garrisons Gibraltar, special forces and the SAS would simply be landed and parachuted in to support them and provide arms to the local population to fight guerrilla warfare against the Spanish invaders.

    Nuclear weapons are only to be used to defend UK territory but of course Gibraltar is British territory
    Blimey, what are you taking tonight @HYUFD ?
    An advanced course in Trumpery.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639
    Dura_Ace said:

    HYUFD said:




    A Spanish invasion of Gibraltar would be met with the full force of the British military with victory to be achieved no matter what the cost.

    Any US naval base would be untouched but beyond that British forces would take all actions necessary to liberate Gibraltar and would do so with or without US help

    Here's what would happen: The US would tell us not to do it and any normal UK PM wouldn't. If we had a Filthy Piece of Toerag (Boris) as PM who was stupid enough to do it anyway then they would start a massive sensor jamming operation, degrade GPS and reset the UK's password to ALIS grounding the F35s.

    This all radged. Do some of your British Army counter insurgency ops on Scotland stuff; it's more believable.
    I did wonder about them pulling the fuses on the Lightnings!

    But at least I have learnt something about a possible trip to Gib to see the fortifications and artillery:

    https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/ShowUserReviews-g187510-d3747895-r213796709-The_Horseshoe-Gibraltar.html
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,277
    Dura_Ace said:

    HYUFD said:




    A Spanish invasion of Gibraltar would be met with the full force of the British military with victory to be achieved no matter what the cost.

    Any US naval base would be untouched but beyond that British forces would take all actions necessary to liberate Gibraltar and would do so with or without US help

    Here's what would happen: The US would tell us not to do it and any normal UK PM wouldn't. If we had a Filthy Piece of Toerag (Boris) as PM who was stupid enough to do it anyway then they would start a massive sensor jamming operation, degrade GPS and reset the UK's password to ALIS grounding the F35s.

    This all radged. Do some of your British Army counter insurgency ops on Scotland stuff; it's more believable.
    The US does not control UK nuclear weapons

    https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/no-america-doesnt-control-britains-nuclear-weapons/

    So there is nothing they can do to stop a UK PM using whatever means necessary to protect British territory from invasion as a last resort
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,586
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Re: Absolute fucking drivel on the previous thread about a hypothetical UK/Spain armed conflict over which country's sailors get to frequent the Donkey's Flipflop in Gibraltar.

    All of the "analysis" presented omits any mention of NAVSTA Rota. This is the strategic gateway to the Med and a very important USN base. There would therefore be no armed conflict in that area for the simple reason that the US would not permit it.

    The US was neutral in the Falklands War and would be neutral in any UK Spain war if Spain invaded Gibraltar too
    The Falklands were not contested on the figurative doorstep of a massive US naval base.

    You'd better hope the US won't be neutral or your War of the Spanish Delusion won't be happening as British forces now have zero electronic warfare or air suppression capabilities. So there no possibility of autonomous expeditionary warfare against a peer military like Spain outside of a US led coalition.
    The UK has more troops than Spain, more tanks than Spain, more aircraft carriers than Spain, better special forces than Spain and more nuclear submarines than Spain, including nuclear weapons which Spain does not have.


    A Spanish invasion of Gibraltar would be met with the full force of the British military with victory to be achieved no matter what the cost.

    Any US naval base would be untouched but beyond that British forces would take all actions necessary to liberate Gibraltar whatever the US did or did not say
    I think tntry.
    The Royal Gibraltar Regiment already garrisons Gibraltar, special forces and the SAS would simply be landed and parachuted in to support them and provide arms to the local population to fight guerrilla warfare against the Spanish invaders.

    Nuclear weapons are only to be used to defend UK territory but of course Gibraltar is British territory
    Blimey, what are you taking tonight @HYUFD ?
    The po faced seriousness of discussing nuclear conflict with Spain rather reveals, I suspect, the mask of the parody slipping. And it was so convincing on other issues as well. Good japes though.
    Go on with you - you'll be telling us HYUFD is another SeanT persona next!
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,428
    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    HYUFD said:




    A Spanish invasion of Gibraltar would be met with the full force of the British military with victory to be achieved no matter what the cost.

    Any US naval base would be untouched but beyond that British forces would take all actions necessary to liberate Gibraltar and would do so with or without US help

    Here's what would happen: The US would tell us not to do it and any normal UK PM wouldn't. If we had a Filthy Piece of Toerag (Boris) as PM who was stupid enough to do it anyway then they would start a massive sensor jamming operation, degrade GPS and reset the UK's password to ALIS grounding the F35s.

    This all radged. Do some of your British Army counter insurgency ops on Scotland stuff; it's more believable.
    The US does not control UK nuclear weapons

    https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/no-america-doesnt-control-britains-nuclear-weapons/

    So there is nothing they can do to stop a UK PM using whatever means necessary to protect British territory from invasion as a last resort
    Why is this being discussed?
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,593
    edited October 2019
    War with Spain. Marvellous. Is this before or after the partition of Northern Ireland and the annexation of the Scottish Borders. Or is it all happening at the same time?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753
    OK what about a shark vs a bear.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,171
    edited October 2019
    I don't think Spain is going to be taking part in any wars when an election is about to take place at which the leading parties are probably going to receive no more than 20-25% of the vote.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    TOPPING said:

    OK what about a shark vs a bear.

    Would you rather be invisible or never be able to wank again? etc.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Re: Absolute fucking drivel on the previous thread about a hypothetical UK/Spain armed conflict over which country's sailors get to frequent the Donkey's Flipflop in Gibraltar.

    All of the "analysis" presented omits any mention of NAVSTA Rota. This is the strategic gateway to the Med and a very important USN base. There would therefore be no armed conflict in that area for the simple reason that the US would not permit it.

    The US was neutral in the Falklands War and would be neutral in any UK Spain war if Spain invaded Gibraltar too
    The Falklands were not contested on the figurative doorstep of a massive US naval base.

    You'd better hope the US won't be neutral or your War of the Spanish Delusion won't be happening as British forces now have zero electronic warfare or air suppression capabilities. So there no possibility of autonomous expeditionary warfare against a peer military like Spain outside of a US led coalition.
    The UK has more troops than Spain, more tanks than Spain, more aircraft carriers than Spain, better special forces than Spain and more nuclear submarines than Spain, including nuclear weapons which Spain does not have.


    A Spanish invasion of Gibraltar would be met with the full force of the British military with victory to be achieved no matter what the cost.

    Any US naval base would be untouched but beyond that British forces would take all actions necessary to liberate Gibraltar whatever the US did or did not say
    I think the biggest problem would be landing these troops, tanks and special forces in Gibraltar in a theoretical UK/Spanish conflict. Although the UK has superior quantity and arguably quality when it comes to military resources, they would still need to transport them around the Iberian peninsula and then stage a naval invasion, which is tough at the best of times.

    Of course, when fighting a non nuclear power, nuclear weapons are meaningless unless the UK intends to become a pariah state; Spain doesn't need to worry about nukes at all as the UK will never risk the immediate sanctions and interventions that would follow a nuclear first strike by an middle nation on a non nucleat country.
    The Royal Gibraltar Regiment already garrisons Gibraltar, special forces and the SAS would simply be landed and parachuted in to support them and provide arms to the local population to fight guerrilla warfare against the Spanish invaders.

    Nuclear weapons are only to be used to defend UK territory but of course Gibraltar is British territory
    No more drugs for HYUFD!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,277
    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    kyf_100 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Re: Absolute fucking drivel on the previous thread about a hypothetical UK/Spain armed conflict over which country's sailors get to frequent the Donkey's Flipflop in Gibraltar.

    All of the "analysis" presented omits any mention of NAVSTA Rota. This is the strategic gateway to the Med and a very important USN base. There would therefore be no armed conflict in that area for the simple reason that the US would not permit it.

    The US was neutral in the Falklands War and would be neutral in any UK Spain war if Spain invaded Gibraltar too
    The Falklands were not contested on the figurative doorstep of a massive US naval base.

    You'd better hope the US won't be neutral or your War of the Spanish Delusion won't be happening as British forces now have zero electronic warfare or air suppression capabilities. So there no possibility of autonomous expeditionary warfare against a peer military like Spain outside of a US led coalition.
    The UK has more troops than Spain, more tanks than Spain, more aircraft carriers than Spain, better special forces than Spain and more nuclear submarines than Spain, including nuclear weapons which Spain does not have.


    A Spanish invasion of Gibraltar would be met with the full force of the British military with victory to be achieved no matter what the cost.

    Any US naval base would be untouched but beyond that British forces would take all actions necessary to liberate Gibraltar and would do so with or without US help
    You really think the US are going to stand by and watch as we nuke Spain?

    Hell, can we even fire them without the US being able to flick the off switch whenever they want?
    The US can say what they want but they are not going to attack an ally and fellow UN Security Council permanent member and nuclear weapons power for defending itself from invasion.
    But are happy to invade one of that country's territories.
    And withdrew after Maggie Thatcher had a firm word
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480

    War with Spain. Marvellous. Is this before or after the partition of Northern Ireland and the annexation of the Scottish Borders. Or is it all happening at the same time?

    I think a 3 front war will overstretch @HYUFD.

    Could all those wanting to die in a ditch report for service immediately. The rest of us will just die laughing.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,171
    O/T

    "Canadian writer Margaret Atwood and British author Bernardine Evaristo split the Booker Prize on Monday, after the judging panel ripped up the rule book and refused to name one winner for the prestigious fiction trophy.

    Chairman Peter Florence said the five judges simply couldn't choose between Atwood's dystopian thriller The Testaments and Evaristo's kaleidoscope of black women's stories, Girl, Woman, Other."

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/entertainment/margaret-atwood-booker-prize-bernardine-evaristo-1.5320701
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,277
    edited October 2019

    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    HYUFD said:




    A Spanish invasion of Gibraltar would be met with the full force of the British military with victory to be achieved no matter what the cost.

    Any US naval base would be untouched but beyond that British forces would take all actions necessary to liberate Gibraltar and would do so with or without US help

    Here's what would happen: The US would tell us not to do it and any normal UK PM wouldn't. If we had a Filthy Piece of Toerag (Boris) as PM who was stupid enough to do it anyway then they would start a massive sensor jamming operation, degrade GPS and reset the UK's password to ALIS grounding the F35s.

    This all radged. Do some of your British Army counter insurgency ops on Scotland stuff; it's more believable.
    The US does not control UK nuclear weapons

    https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/no-america-doesnt-control-britains-nuclear-weapons/

    So there is nothing they can do to stop a UK PM using whatever means necessary to protect British territory from invasion as a last resort
    Why is this being discussed?
    Half the point of being able to successfully defend your territory from invasion is to keep potential invaders guessing about what your response might be, all cards should be on the table as a last resort
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480
    TOPPING said:

    OK what about a shark vs a bear.

    Surely the key issue is whether it is a land or naval battle?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,277
    Foxy said:

    War with Spain. Marvellous. Is this before or after the partition of Northern Ireland and the annexation of the Scottish Borders. Or is it all happening at the same time?

    I think a 3 front war will overstretch @HYUFD.

    Could all those wanting to die in a ditch report for service immediately. The rest of us will just die laughing.
    Spain would also be at war with Catalonia at the same time I presume...
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    Given that Franco never invaded Gibraltar I hardly think that any conceivable democratic government of Spain will consider doing so.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753
    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    kyf_100 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Re: Absolute fucking drivel on the previous thread about a hypothetical UK/Spain armed conflict over which country's sailors get to frequent the Donkey's Flipflop in Gibraltar.

    All of the "analysis" presented omits any mention of NAVSTA Rota. This is the strategic gateway to the Med and a very important USN base. There would therefore be no armed conflict in that area for the simple reason that the US would not permit it.

    The US was neutral in the Falklands War and would be neutral in any UK Spain war if Spain invaded Gibraltar too
    The Falklands were not contested on the figurative doorstep of a massive US naval base.

    You'd better hope the US won't be neutral or your War of the Spanish Delusion won't be happening as British forces now have zero electronic warfare or air suppression capabilities. So there no possibility of autonomous expeditionary warfare against a peer military like Spain outside of a US led coalition.
    The UK has more troops than Spain, more tanks than Spain, more aircraft carriers than Spain, better special forces than Spain and more nuclear submarines than Spain, including nuclear weapons which Spain does not have.


    A Spanish invasion of Gibraltar would be met with the full force of the British military with victory to be achieved no matter what the cost.

    Any US naval base would be untouched but beyond that British forces would take all actions necessary to liberate Gibraltar and would do so with or without US help
    You really think the US are going to stand by and watch as we nuke Spain?

    Hell, can we even fire them without the US being able to flick the off switch whenever they want?
    The US can say what they want but they are not going to attack an ally and fellow UN Security Council permanent member and nuclear weapons power for defending itself from invasion.
    But are happy to invade one of that country's territories.
    And withdrew after Maggie Thatcher had a firm word
    That was not the case.
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380
    I find it very sad to see that so many people on this forum are genuinely discussing the UK going to war with Spain. Yes, we could send our tanks over to retake Gibraltar and then play hit n run all the way to Madrid, but everybody knows whilst they're away Denmark would invade. They've been waiting a thousand year for the rematch, they aren't going to pass up the opportunity.

    And I for one welcome our new Danish overlords. God save the (other) queen!
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380
    Foxy said:

    TOPPING said:

    OK what about a shark vs a bear.

    Surely the key issue is whether it is a land or naval battle?
    Neutral territory. Airborne.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,894
    The next El Classico should be good.
  • TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    kyf_100 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Re: Absolute fucking drivel on the previous thread about a hypothetical UK/Spain armed conflict over which country's sailors get to frequent the Donkey's Flipflop in Gibraltar.

    All of the "analysis" presented omits any mention of NAVSTA Rota. This is the strategic gateway to the Med and a very important USN base. There would therefore be no armed conflict in that area for the simple reason that the US would not permit it.

    The US was neutral in the Falklands War and would be neutral in any UK Spain war if Spain invaded Gibraltar too
    The Falklands were not contested on the figurative doorstep of a massive US naval base.

    You'd better hope the US won't be neutral or your War of the Spanish Delusion won't be happening as British forces now have zero electronic warfare or air suppression capabilities. So there no possibility of autonomous expeditionary warfare against a peer military like Spain outside of a US led coalition.
    The UK has more troops than Spain, more tanks than Spain, more aircraft carriers than Spain, better special forces than Spain and more nuclear submarines than Spain, including nuclear weapons which Spain does not have.


    A Spanish invasion of Gibraltar would be met with the full force of the British military with victory to be achieved no matter what the cost.

    Any US naval base would be untouched but beyond that British forces would take all actions necessary to liberate Gibraltar and would do so with or without US help
    You really think the US are going to stand by and watch as we nuke Spain?

    Hell, can we even fire them without the US being able to flick the off switch whenever they want?
    The US can say what they want but they are not going to attack an ally and fellow UN Security Council permanent member and nuclear weapons power for defending itself from invasion.
    But are happy to invade one of that country's territories.
    Wasn't Grenada independent at the time?
  • ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,503

    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    HYUFD said:




    A Spanish invasion of Gibraltar would be met with the full force of the British military with victory to be achieved no matter what the cost.

    Any US naval base would be untouched but beyond that British forces would take all actions necessary to liberate Gibraltar and would do so with or without US help

    Here's what would happen: The US would tell us not to do it and any normal UK PM wouldn't. If we had a Filthy Piece of Toerag (Boris) as PM who was stupid enough to do it anyway then they would start a massive sensor jamming operation, degrade GPS and reset the UK's password to ALIS grounding the F35s.

    This all radged. Do some of your British Army counter insurgency ops on Scotland stuff; it's more believable.
    The US does not control UK nuclear weapons

    https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/no-america-doesnt-control-britains-nuclear-weapons/

    So there is nothing they can do to stop a UK PM using whatever means necessary to protect British territory from invasion as a last resort
    Why is this being discussed?
    Strategic preemptive nuclear strike on Spain of course.
    Don’t tell me this isn’t the conversation around many dinner tables these days.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,277
    edited October 2019
    Noo said:

    I find it very sad to see that so many people on this forum are genuinely discussing the UK going to war with Spain. Yes, we could send our tanks over to retake Gibraltar and then play hit n run all the way to Madrid, but everybody knows whilst they're away Denmark would invade. They've been waiting a thousand year for the rematch, they aren't going to pass up the opportunity.

    And I for one welcome our new Danish overlords. God save the (other) queen!

    I know some of the wet lettuces on here are willing to weakly give up British territory without response but a proper PM with balls in the Maggie mode would be made of sterner stuff (as indeed was King Alfred when he beat off the Danes).

  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,644
    Is the Catalan airport demo a false flag operation for the beginning of a British attack on Spain?
  • This UK/Spain chat tonight is like The Day Today WAR! sketch:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3BO6GP9NMY
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753
    HYUFD said:

    Noo said:

    I find it very sad to see that so many people on this forum are genuinely discussing the UK going to war with Spain. Yes, we could send our tanks over to retake Gibraltar and then play hit n run all the way to Madrid, but everybody knows whilst they're away Denmark would invade. They've been waiting a thousand year for the rematch, they aren't going to pass up the opportunity.

    And I for one welcome our new Danish overlords. God save the (other) queen!

    I know some of the wet lettuces on here are willing to weakly give up British territory without response but a proper PM with balls in the Maggie mode is made of sterner stuff (as indeed was King Alfred when he beat off the Danes).

    Which of course brings me back to my earlier question.
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380
    EPG said:

    Is the Catalan airport demo a false flag operation for the beginning of a British attack on Spain?

    Which is itself a false flag for Britain to weaken Spain allowing the Catalans to secede. It's all being driven by Gove, who is a deep undercover Scottish nationalist.
  • ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,503

    This UK/Spain chat tonight is like The Day Today WAR! sketch:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3BO6GP9NMY

    That was on the Australia-Hong Kong border though. If I remember correctly....
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited October 2019
    tlg86 said:

    Byronic said:

    tlg86 said:

    6-0.

    Up yours, racists.

    Worth noting that this result is very much in Bulgaria's interest. They'd probably make it into the playoffs anyway, but it's to their advantage that England and Czech Republic qualify directly rather than Kosovo.

    I was going to suggest lumping on England earlier today, but I was slightly concerned that Bulgaria might not be aware of this and there was always the possibility that the game would be abandoned (not sure the betting implications if that had happened).
    No side wants to lose 6-0. It is psychologically damaging

    Cf: I'm not sure the Irish rugby team have recovered from their record-breaking summertime drubbing at Twickenham. Certainly, the Irish press keep referring to it: as a recurring nightmare.
    True. It's a bit sad really. My earliest memory of international football was USA 94, and Bulgaria's victory against the Germans in the quarter final was fantastic. They've produced some excellent players over the years, but I don't recognize any of the names in their current squad.
    USA 94 was the summer of my first job - a runner on the LIFFE floor. I had to put some bets on for the traders who weren’t allowed in the bookies with their company jackets on. One of them asked me what I fancied and I said ‘Brazil 3 vs Holland 2’ and ‘Bulgaria 2 vs Germany 1’... he said I might as well have a fiver double... but I put in the the fruit machine instead... 🙈
  • This UK/Spain chat tonight is like The Day Today WAR! sketch:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3BO6GP9NMY

    That was on the Australia-Hong Kong border though. If I remember correctly....
    Yes, but given the thread today, it would obviously easily spread to Spain / Gibraltar.
  • Only posted here a few times but lurked for a few years.

    The degredation of discussion here is pretty depressing. I don't mean that in a "people are disagreeing" way but more in a "every time I check the comments someone is calling someone else something rude" way.

    I'm not going to pretend I know how to rescue things but please could we have a few days to take a step back, recognise the person you're talking to on here isn't a treacherous fascist monster, and try to be decent to each other?
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380
    Off topic (the topic being war with Spain, apparently)
    I read some K-Pop star I've never heard of has been "found dead aged 25". And it got me wondering. If a famous 80-year-old passes away, it's
    Person X dies aged 80
    but it's
    Person Y, 25, found dead

    At what age do you stop being "found dead" and just die?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    Noo said:

    Foxy said:

    TOPPING said:

    OK what about a shark vs a bear.

    Surely the key issue is whether it is a land or naval battle?
    Neutral territory. Airborne.
    No one ever asked if sharks shit in the woods,,,,
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    Final update before I log off:

    We have gate agents, but still no plane. And no more Kitkats.

    Oh, and Delft is definitely worth a visit.

    Night all.

    Amazingly I heard of Delft for the first time about an hour ago, watching a BBC programme about a Dutch forger who sold his verMeer paintings to the Nazis.
  • Chris_AChris_A Posts: 1,237
    I would trust that there's not a single British adult who holds a driving license.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    TOPPING said:

    OK what about a shark vs a bear.

    Are Opinium polls better than ComRes, pre campaign?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    Noo said:

    Off topic (the topic being war with Spain, apparently)
    I read some K-Pop star I've never heard of has been "found dead aged 25". And it got me wondering. If a famous 80-year-old passes away, it's
    Person X dies aged 80
    but it's
    Person Y, 25, found dead

    At what age do you stop being "found dead" and just die?

    The suggestion is that she was a suicide.

    And aren’t many octogenarian deaths witnessed ?
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    isam said:

    Final update before I log off:

    We have gate agents, but still no plane. And no more Kitkats.

    Oh, and Delft is definitely worth a visit.

    Night all.

    Amazingly I heard of Delft for the first time about an hour ago, watching a BBC programme about a Dutch forger who sold his verMeer paintings to the Nazis.
    Delft is beautiful, and the Vermeer museum is worth the trip.
  • ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,503

    This UK/Spain chat tonight is like The Day Today WAR! sketch:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3BO6GP9NMY

    That was on the Australia-Hong Kong border though. If I remember correctly....
    Yes, but given the thread today, it would obviously easily spread to Spain / Gibraltar.
    We would leave the English border with Thailand completely undefended if we committed to war with Spain.
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    Noo said:

    Off topic (the topic being war with Spain, apparently)
    I read some K-Pop star I've never heard of has been "found dead aged 25". And it got me wondering. If a famous 80-year-old passes away, it's
    Person X dies aged 80
    but it's
    Person Y, 25, found dead

    At what age do you stop being "found dead" and just die?

    Average life expectancy or thereabouts I suppose - ie when it stops being a surprise.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited October 2019

    Only posted here a few times but lurked for a few years.

    The degredation of discussion here is pretty depressing. I don't mean that in a "people are disagreeing" way but more in a "every time I check the comments someone is calling someone else something rude" way.

    I'm not going to pretend I know how to rescue things but please could we have a few days to take a step back, recognise the person you're talking to on here isn't a treacherous fascist monster, and try to be decent to each other?

    Bit much to ask for the thread header writers not to comment below the line
  • If there is going to be no MV then Super Saturday is just another Johnson stunt. Saturday sittings cancel surgeries and constituency work. They are very inconvenient for MPs for areas well away from London. They are for emergencies.

    If there is to be no MV Labour are quite right to block Super Saturday.
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    OK what about a shark vs a bear.

    Are Opinium polls better than ComRes, pre campaign?
    I don't know, but I find their data tables to be equally a mess. At least I could follow the ICM ones.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269
    Nigelb said:

    Byronic said:

    La La Land. He is sanctioning a NATO ally for doing what he invited them to do on Wednesday, and he is withdrawing American troops from a country where he says there are no American troops, and he is aiding the resurgence of a terror group that he simultaneously boasts about defeating, and he is sending American troops into the Mid East as he gloats about flying Mid East-based US troops home, and and and

    America the Clown.
    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/10/trump-kurds-world-order-betrayal.html

    It’s worth emphasizing, over and over, that the Turkish invasion wasn’t an unforeseen side effect of Trump’s withdrawal; it was an explicit part of the decision. The official statement that the White House released on Oct. 6 made this clear:

    “Turkey will soon be moving forward with its long-planned operation into Northern Syria. The United States Armed Forces will not support or be involved in the operation, and United States forces, having defeated the ISIS territorial “Caliphate,” will no longer be in the immediate area.”


    It’s also worth emphasising that total US casualties in the fight against IS were eight.
    For the Kurds, perhaps 11,000.

    That is how Trump treats US allies.
    And this is the man Boris wants to tie Britain to.
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380

    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    OK what about a shark vs a bear.

    Are Opinium polls better than ComRes, pre campaign?
    I don't know, but I find their data tables to be equally a mess. At least I could follow the ICM ones.
    Pfff everybody know ICM is biased towards bears.
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979
    HYUFD said:

    Noo said:

    I find it very sad to see that so many people on this forum are genuinely discussing the UK going to war with Spain. Yes, we could send our tanks over to retake Gibraltar and then play hit n run all the way to Madrid, but everybody knows whilst they're away Denmark would invade. They've been waiting a thousand year for the rematch, they aren't going to pass up the opportunity.

    And I for one welcome our new Danish overlords. God save the (other) queen!

    I know some of the wet lettuces on here are willing to weakly give up British territory without response but a proper PM with balls in the Maggie mode would be made of sterner stuff (as indeed was King Alfred when he beat off the Danes).

    While the troops are re-taking Gibraltar, for strategic reasons the UK should annexe the small Spanish territory on the otherside of the Gibraltar straights in North Africa! It is funny, you never hear about Morocco claiming that enclave! Double standards by the Spanish! :smiley:

    There will be no war with Spain and the above is jest but true!
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,171
    I wonder whether any futurologists predicted protests in both Barcelona and Hong Kong in 2019.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    kyf_100 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Re: Absolute fucking drivel on the previous thread about a hypothetical UK/Spain armed conflict over which country's sailors get to frequent the Donkey's Flipflop in Gibraltar.

    All of the "analysis" presented omits any mention of NAVSTA Rota. This is the strategic gateway to the Med and a very important USN base. There would therefore be no armed conflict in that area for the simple reason that the US would not permit it.

    The US was neutral in the Falklands War and would be neutral in any UK Spain war if Spain invaded Gibraltar too
    The Falklands were not contested on the figurative doorstep of a massive US naval base.

    You'd better hope the US won't be neutral or your War of the Spanish Delusion won't be happening as British forces now have zero electronic warfare or air suppression capabilities. So there no possibility of autonomous expeditionary warfare against a peer military like Spain outside of a US led coalition.
    The UK has more troops than Spain, more tanks than Spain, more aircraft carriers than Spain, better special forces than Spain and more nuclear submarines than Spain, including nuclear weapons which Spain does not have.


    A Spanish invasion of Gibraltar would be met with the full force of the British military with victory to be achieved no matter what the cost.

    Any US naval base would be untouched but beyond that British forces would take all actions necessary to liberate Gibraltar and would do so with or without US help
    You really think the US are going to stand by and watch as we nuke Spain?

    Hell, can we even fire them without the US being able to flick the off switch whenever they want?
    The US can say what they want but they are not going to attack an ally and fellow UN Security Council permanent member and nuclear weapons power for defending itself from invasion.
    But are happy to invade one of that country's territories.
    Wasn't Grenada independent at the time?
    Aye, independent in 1974, however QE2 is still monarch of Grenada sl it's part of the loose collection of commonwealth states under QE2 that make up a modern version of 'empire'
  • Andy_JS said:

    I wonder whether any futurologists predicted protests in both Barcelona and Hong Kong in 2019.

    Ask Rogerdamus when he's next in. If he didn't get it, nobody did.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269
    HYUFD said:

    tyson said:

    Boris Johnson...fucking tosspot..discuss.

    What is the worst thing about Boris's day today????.from the UK not wanting to criticise Turkey, to manipulating the queen for today's charade, to popping in such incendiary voter suppression measures, to the shocking populist home office (unworkable) proposals, to wrapping himself around the NHS..something he obviously doesn't give a flying fuck about....

    What did we do to deserve Boris Johnson?

    Refuse to deliver the Brexit 17 million voted for
    We did not do anything @tyson. Remember: we did not vote for him.
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979

    If there is going to be no MV then Super Saturday is just another Johnson stunt. Saturday sittings cancel surgeries and constituency work. They are very inconvenient for MPs for areas well away from London. They are for emergencies.

    If there is to be no MV Labour are quite right to block Super Saturday.

    Yes, I agee. Labour have to be careful about not turning up though as you cannot trust BJ!
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380
    Seeing the police attacking protesters in Barcelona again is depressing. I was in Barcelona 2 years ago when the police attacked people hoping to vote and it was really frightening.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269
    edited October 2019
    deleted
  • ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,503

    HYUFD said:

    Noo said:

    I find it very sad to see that so many people on this forum are genuinely discussing the UK going to war with Spain. Yes, we could send our tanks over to retake Gibraltar and then play hit n run all the way to Madrid, but everybody knows whilst they're away Denmark would invade. They've been waiting a thousand year for the rematch, they aren't going to pass up the opportunity.

    And I for one welcome our new Danish overlords. God save the (other) queen!

    I know some of the wet lettuces on here are willing to weakly give up British territory without response but a proper PM with balls in the Maggie mode would be made of sterner stuff (as indeed was King Alfred when he beat off the Danes).

    While the troops are re-taking Gibraltar, for strategic reasons the UK should annexe the small Spanish territory on the otherside of the Gibraltar straights in North Africa! It is funny, you never hear about Morocco claiming that enclave! Double standards by the Spanish! :smiley:

    There will be no war with Spain and the above is jest but true!
    Thinking about it we should return Gibraltar and declare the Treaty of Utrecht void ab initio.

    The UK could dismantle most of Europe in one stroke.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    HYUFD said:

    Noo said:

    I find it very sad to see that so many people on this forum are genuinely discussing the UK going to war with Spain. Yes, we could send our tanks over to retake Gibraltar and then play hit n run all the way to Madrid, but everybody knows whilst they're away Denmark would invade. They've been waiting a thousand year for the rematch, they aren't going to pass up the opportunity.

    And I for one welcome our new Danish overlords. God save the (other) queen!

    I know some of the wet lettuces on here are willing to weakly give up British territory without response but a proper PM with balls in the Maggie mode would be made of sterner stuff (as indeed was King Alfred when he beat off the Danes).

    While the troops are re-taking Gibraltar, for strategic reasons the UK should annexe the small Spanish territory on the otherside of the Gibraltar straights in North Africa! It is funny, you never hear about Morocco claiming that enclave! Double standards by the Spanish! :smiley:

    There will be no war with Spain and the above is jest but true!
    Morocco has and does demand annexation of Ceuta and Melilla.
    They are both constituent parts of the kingdom of Spain though unlike Gibraltar which is an overseas territory of the UK
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269
    tyson said:

    HYUFD said:

    tyson said:

    Boris Johnson...fucking tosspot..discuss.

    What is the worst thing about Boris's day today????.from the UK not wanting to criticise Turkey, to manipulating the queen for today's charade, to popping in such incendiary voter suppression measures, to the shocking populist home office (unworkable) proposals, to wrapping himself around the NHS..something he obviously doesn't give a flying fuck about....

    What did we do to deserve Boris Johnson?

    Refuse to deliver the Brexit 17 million voted for
    OK...what do you think about the sentencing measures for the Courts? Do you agree with them? I am curious
    Oh goodie, I’m looking forward to hearing @HYUFD’s knowledge of the criminal justice system. This should be fun!
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,586

    Noo said:

    Off topic (the topic being war with Spain, apparently)
    I read some K-Pop star I've never heard of has been "found dead aged 25". And it got me wondering. If a famous 80-year-old passes away, it's
    Person X dies aged 80
    but it's
    Person Y, 25, found dead

    At what age do you stop being "found dead" and just die?

    Average life expectancy or thereabouts I suppose - ie when it stops being a surprise.
    It's about the same age that you no longer 'fall over' and but rather 'have a fall'.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,171

    Only posted here a few times but lurked for a few years.

    The degredation of discussion here is pretty depressing. I don't mean that in a "people are disagreeing" way but more in a "every time I check the comments someone is calling someone else something rude" way.

    I'm not going to pretend I know how to rescue things but please could we have a few days to take a step back, recognise the person you're talking to on here isn't a treacherous fascist monster, and try to be decent to each other?

    +1
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,277
    edited October 2019
    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    Noo said:

    I find it very sad to see that so many people on this forum are genuinely discussing the UK going to war with Spain. Yes, we could send our tanks over to retake Gibraltar and then play hit n run all the way to Madrid, but everybody knows whilst they're away Denmark would invade. They've been waiting a thousand year for the rematch, they aren't going to pass up the opportunity.

    And I for one welcome our new Danish overlords. God save the (other) queen!

    I know some of the wet lettuces on here are willing to weakly give up British territory without response but a proper PM with balls in the Maggie mode is made of sterner stuff (as indeed was King Alfred when he beat off the Danes).

    Which of course brings me back to my earlier question.
    Grenada was not British territory when Reagan invaded in 1983 after the PM was executed following a coup, it having gained independence in 1974 (though it was in the Commonwealth).

  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,171
    Would an old person's bus pass count as valid ID for voting?
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    HYUFD said:

    Noo said:

    I find it very sad to see that so many people on this forum are genuinely discussing the UK going to war with Spain. Yes, we could send our tanks over to retake Gibraltar and then play hit n run all the way to Madrid, but everybody knows whilst they're away Denmark would invade. They've been waiting a thousand year for the rematch, they aren't going to pass up the opportunity.

    And I for one welcome our new Danish overlords. God save the (other) queen!

    I know some of the wet lettuces on here are willing to weakly give up British territory without response but a proper PM with balls in the Maggie mode would be made of sterner stuff (as indeed was King Alfred when he beat off the Danes).

    While the troops are re-taking Gibraltar, for strategic reasons the UK should annexe the small Spanish territory on the otherside of the Gibraltar straights in North Africa! It is funny, you never hear about Morocco claiming that enclave! Double standards by the Spanish! :smiley:

    There will be no war with Spain and the above is jest but true!
    Morocco has and does demand annexation of Ceuta and Melilla.
    They are both constituent parts of the kingdom of Spain though unlike Gibraltar which is an overseas territory of the UK
    Of course Morocco can whistle given their occupation of Western Sahara through which I have travelled. The last sizable territory not yet to receive suitable settlement in the post colonial era
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    Noo said:

    I find it very sad to see that so many people on this forum are genuinely discussing the UK going to war with Spain. Yes, we could send our tanks over to retake Gibraltar and then play hit n run all the way to Madrid, but everybody knows whilst they're away Denmark would invade. They've been waiting a thousand year for the rematch, they aren't going to pass up the opportunity.

    And I for one welcome our new Danish overlords. God save the (other) queen!

    I know some of the wet lettuces on here are willing to weakly give up British territory without response but a proper PM with balls in the Maggie mode is made of sterner stuff (as indeed was King Alfred when he beat off the Danes).

    Which of course brings me back to my earlier question.
    Grenada was not British territory when Reagan invaded in 1983 after the PM was executed following a coup, it having gained independence in 1973 (though it was in the Commonwealth).

    Qe2 was head of state however and still is
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979

    HYUFD said:

    Noo said:

    I find it very sad to see that so many people on this forum are genuinely discussing the UK going to war with Spain. Yes, we could send our tanks over to retake Gibraltar and then play hit n run all the way to Madrid, but everybody knows whilst they're away Denmark would invade. They've been waiting a thousand year for the rematch, they aren't going to pass up the opportunity.

    And I for one welcome our new Danish overlords. God save the (other) queen!

    I know some of the wet lettuces on here are willing to weakly give up British territory without response but a proper PM with balls in the Maggie mode would be made of sterner stuff (as indeed was King Alfred when he beat off the Danes).

    While the troops are re-taking Gibraltar, for strategic reasons the UK should annexe the small Spanish territory on the otherside of the Gibraltar straights in North Africa! It is funny, you never hear about Morocco claiming that enclave! Double standards by the Spanish! :smiley:

    There will be no war with Spain and the above is jest but true!
    Morocco has and does demand annexation of Ceuta and Melilla.
    They are both constituent parts of the kingdom of Spain though unlike Gibraltar which is an overseas territory of the UK
    I had never heard of them until some Russian told me about it as he had visited Ceuta , when i was on a recent trip. Maybe it does not register because it is of little interest to readers of UK media?
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,644

    Only posted here a few times but lurked for a few years.

    The degredation of discussion here is pretty depressing. I don't mean that in a "people are disagreeing" way but more in a "every time I check the comments someone is calling someone else something rude" way.

    I'm not going to pretend I know how to rescue things but please could we have a few days to take a step back, recognise the person you're talking to on here isn't a treacherous fascist monster, and try to be decent to each other?

    Yet I recall crystal clear in 2016 that people chortled at the literary waves of abuse from one writer below the line, who also used politicalbetting.com to fantasise about interning and/or deporting all British Muslims. So the golden age was a lie.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,277

    HYUFD said:

    Noo said:

    I find it very sad to see that so many people on this forum are genuinely discussing the UK going to war with Spain. Yes, we could send our tanks over to retake Gibraltar and then play hit n run all the way to Madrid, but everybody knows whilst they're away Denmark would invade. They've been waiting a thousand year for the rematch, they aren't going to pass up the opportunity.

    And I for one welcome our new Danish overlords. God save the (other) queen!

    I know some of the wet lettuces on here are willing to weakly give up British territory without response but a proper PM with balls in the Maggie mode would be made of sterner stuff (as indeed was King Alfred when he beat off the Danes).

    While the troops are re-taking Gibraltar, for strategic reasons the UK should annexe the small Spanish territory on the otherside of the Gibraltar straights in North Africa! It is funny, you never hear about Morocco claiming that enclave! Double standards by the Spanish! :smiley:

    There will be no war with Spain and the above is jest but true!
    All the more reason Spain cannot complain agreed
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    HYUFD said:

    Noo said:

    I find it very sad to see that so many people on this forum are genuinely discussing the UK going to war with Spain. Yes, we could send our tanks over to retake Gibraltar and then play hit n run all the way to Madrid, but everybody knows whilst they're away Denmark would invade. They've been waiting a thousand year for the rematch, they aren't going to pass up the opportunity.

    And I for one welcome our new Danish overlords. God save the (other) queen!

    I know some of the wet lettuces on here are willing to weakly give up British territory without response but a proper PM with balls in the Maggie mode would be made of sterner stuff (as indeed was King Alfred when he beat off the Danes).

    While the troops are re-taking Gibraltar, for strategic reasons the UK should annexe the small Spanish territory on the otherside of the Gibraltar straights in North Africa! It is funny, you never hear about Morocco claiming that enclave! Double standards by the Spanish! :smiley:

    There will be no war with Spain and the above is jest but true!
    Morocco has and does demand annexation of Ceuta and Melilla.
    They are both constituent parts of the kingdom of Spain though unlike Gibraltar which is an overseas territory of the UK
    I had never heard of them until some Russian told me about it as he had visited Ceuta , when i was on a recent trip. Maybe it does not register because it is of little interest to readers of UK media?
    It's a weird quirk and hangover of the colonization of Africa. There are some military installations on islands off the coast which are strategically good compensation for not having Gibraltar
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,873

    Only posted here a few times but lurked for a few years.

    The degredation of discussion here is pretty depressing. I don't mean that in a "people are disagreeing" way but more in a "every time I check the comments someone is calling someone else something rude" way.

    I'm not going to pretend I know how to rescue things but please could we have a few days to take a step back, recognise the person you're talking to on here isn't a treacherous fascist monster, and try to be decent to each other?

    That'd be nice.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,077
    Andy_JS said:

    Would an old person's bus pass count as valid ID for voting?

    It does in Northern Ireland see https://www.eoni.org.uk/Electoral-Identity-Card/Electoral-Identity-Card-FAQs
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,794
    HYUFD said:

    Noo said:

    I find it very sad to see that so many people on this forum are genuinely discussing the UK going to war with Spain. Yes, we could send our tanks over to retake Gibraltar and then play hit n run all the way to Madrid, but everybody knows whilst they're away Denmark would invade. They've been waiting a thousand year for the rematch, they aren't going to pass up the opportunity.

    And I for one welcome our new Danish overlords. God save the (other) queen!

    I know some of the wet lettuces on here are willing to weakly give up British territory without response but a proper PM with balls in the Maggie mode would be made of sterner stuff (as indeed was King Alfred when he beat off the Danes).

    Do you know "beat off" has more than one meaning?
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,153
    edited October 2019
    Interesting that Blackford was on Newsnight saying general election before referendum.

    With Con, SNP and Labour Remainers in Leave seats against a referendum it's difficult to see how that gets through?

    The SNP could also be opening up a way for Boris get an election through with a one line bill?
  • HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    Noo said:

    I find it very sad to see that so many people on this forum are genuinely discussing the UK going to war with Spain. Yes, we could send our tanks over to retake Gibraltar and then play hit n run all the way to Madrid, but everybody knows whilst they're away Denmark would invade. They've been waiting a thousand year for the rematch, they aren't going to pass up the opportunity.

    And I for one welcome our new Danish overlords. God save the (other) queen!

    I know some of the wet lettuces on here are willing to weakly give up British territory without response but a proper PM with balls in the Maggie mode is made of sterner stuff (as indeed was King Alfred when he beat off the Danes).

    Which of course brings me back to my earlier question.
    Grenada was not British territory when Reagan invaded in 1983 after the PM was executed following a coup, it having gained independence in 1974 (though it was in the Commonwealth).

    Qe2 was head of state however and still is
    But it's not a British Territory.
  • TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    kyf_100 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Re: Absolute fucking drivel on the previous thread about a hypothetical UK/Spain armed conflict over which country's sailors get to frequent the Donkey's Flipflop in Gibraltar.

    All of the "analysis" presented omits any mention of NAVSTA Rota. This is the strategic gateway to the Med and a very important USN base. There would therefore be no armed conflict in that area for the simple reason that the US would not permit it.

    The US was neutral in the Falklands War and would be neutral in any UK Spain war if Spain invaded Gibraltar too
    The Falklands were not contested on the figurative doorstep of a massive US naval base.

    You'd better hope the US won't be neutral or your War of the Spanish Delusion won't be happening as British forces now have zero electronic warfare or air suppression capabilities. So there no possibility of autonomous expeditionary warfare against a peer military like Spain outside of a US led coalition.
    The UK has more troops than Spain, more tanks than Spain, more aircraft carriers than Spain, better special forces than Spain and more nuclear submarines than Spain, including nuclear weapons which Spain does not have.


    A Spanish invasion of Gibraltar would be met with the full force of the British military with victory to be achieved no matter what the cost.

    Any US naval base would be untouched but beyond that British forces would take all actions necessary to liberate Gibraltar and would do so with or without US help
    You really think the US are going to stand by and watch as we nuke Spain?

    Hell, can we even fire them without the US being able to flick the off switch whenever they want?
    The US can say what they want but they are not going to attack an ally and fellow UN Security Council permanent member and nuclear weapons power for defending itself from invasion.
    But are happy to invade one of that country's territories.
    Wasn't Grenada independent at the time?
    You're not the first to point out that fact.
  • Gabs2Gabs2 Posts: 1,268
    Cyclefree said:

    Nigelb said:

    Byronic said:

    La La Land. He is sanctioning a NATO ally for doing what he invited them to do on Wednesday, and he is withdrawing American troops from a country where he says there are no American troops, and he is aiding the resurgence of a terror group that he simultaneously boasts about defeating, and he is sending American troops into the Mid East as he gloats about flying Mid East-based US troops home, and and and

    America the Clown.
    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/10/trump-kurds-world-order-betrayal.html

    It’s worth emphasizing, over and over, that the Turkish invasion wasn’t an unforeseen side effect of Trump’s withdrawal; it was an explicit part of the decision. The official statement that the White House released on Oct. 6 made this clear:

    “Turkey will soon be moving forward with its long-planned operation into Northern Syria. The United States Armed Forces will not support or be involved in the operation, and United States forces, having defeated the ISIS territorial “Caliphate,” will no longer be in the immediate area.”


    It’s also worth emphasising that total US casualties in the fight against IS were eight.
    For the Kurds, perhaps 11,000.

    That is how Trump treats US allies.
    And this is the man Boris wants to tie Britain to.
    That is like saying pro-Europeans want to tie us to fascists like Orban.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    edited October 2019
    Suggestions that Johnson might try and get the Benn Act repealed by saying that a deal is close and that another EU summit will be taking place later in October .

    If MPs fall for this then they must be mad . Even if a deal is sealed later in October there’s no time for the legislation and what if the talks fall apart with no agreed extension there’s nothing they could do .

    Looks like the governments briefings on apparent loopholes in the Benn Act was as everyone thought just bluff and bluster and now their attempts are to dupe MPs into repealing the legislation.



  • Gabs2 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Nigelb said:

    Byronic said:

    La La Land. He is sanctioning a NATO ally for doing what he invited them to do on Wednesday, and he is withdrawing American troops from a country where he says there are no American troops, and he is aiding the resurgence of a terror group that he simultaneously boasts about defeating, and he is sending American troops into the Mid East as he gloats about flying Mid East-based US troops home, and and and

    America the Clown.
    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/10/trump-kurds-world-order-betrayal.html

    It’s worth emphasizing, over and over, that the Turkish invasion wasn’t an unforeseen side effect of Trump’s withdrawal; it was an explicit part of the decision. The official statement that the White House released on Oct. 6 made this clear:

    “Turkey will soon be moving forward with its long-planned operation into Northern Syria. The United States Armed Forces will not support or be involved in the operation, and United States forces, having defeated the ISIS territorial “Caliphate,” will no longer be in the immediate area.”


    It’s also worth emphasising that total US casualties in the fight against IS were eight.
    For the Kurds, perhaps 11,000.

    That is how Trump treats US allies.
    And this is the man Boris wants to tie Britain to.
    That is like saying pro-Europeans want to tie us to fascists like Orban.
    And the Spanish.

    Except if we are in the EU we are literally tied to Orban and the Spaniards politically. Outside we are free to do as we please. We can elect a pro-American government or we could elect an anti-American or neutral or a take-each-as-it-comes or a we-hate-Trump-but-liked-Obama-and-could-live-with-Warren government.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,153
    nico67 said:

    Suggestions that Johnson might try and get the Benn Act repealed by saying that a deal is close and that another EU summit will be taking place later in October .

    If MPs fall for this then they must be mad . Even if a deal is sealed later in October there’s no time for the legislation and what if the talks fall apart with no agreed extension there’s nothing they could do .

    Looks like the governments briefings on apparent loopholes in the Benn Act was as everyone thought just bluff and bluster and now their attempts are to dupe MPs into repealing the legislation.



    They could just amend the Benn act to take into account the date ot the second summit (which will presumably be announced on Thursday or Friday?) so Benn wouldn't kick in until 28th October (or whenever the second summit takes place)
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,707
    Sort of on topic, my British license doesn't have a photo, it's a ragged old scrap of paper, IIRC with a validity date set for another twenty years away or so. Was I supposed to send it in and get it replaced with a piece of plastic with one of these new-fangled photographs?
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    As an oldie and a diabetic, I've just had to get medical approval to have my driving licence renewed. Had it not been renewed would I be disenfranchised as a consequence of being diabetic?
  • As an oldie and a diabetic, I've just had to get medical approval to have my driving licence renewed. Had it not been renewed would I be disenfranchised as a consequence of being diabetic?

    QTWAIN
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    I'm poor and cannot afford to travel and don't own a car. Would I be disenfranchised for being poor?
  • Sort of on topic, my British license doesn't have a photo, it's a ragged old scrap of paper, IIRC with a validity date set for another twenty years away or so. Was I supposed to send it in and get it replaced with a piece of plastic with one of these new-fangled photographs?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/11028839/Driving-licence-changes-what-do-paper-licence-holders-need-to-know.html
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    I am a Muslim woman and don't have a driving licence nor a passport, would I be disenfranchised as a consequence. Is there wishful thinking at play here?
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,153
    If Blackford is true to his word about no refernedum until there's been a general election then any attempt at a referendum on Saturday is a non-starter.

    Con 288 + SNP 35 + DUP 10 + Labour MPs from Leave Seats 10 (conservative estimate) = NO 343
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    GIN1138 said:

    nico67 said:

    Suggestions that Johnson might try and get the Benn Act repealed by saying that a deal is close and that another EU summit will be taking place later in October .

    If MPs fall for this then they must be mad . Even if a deal is sealed later in October there’s no time for the legislation and what if the talks fall apart with no agreed extension there’s nothing they could do .

    Looks like the governments briefings on apparent loopholes in the Benn Act was as everyone thought just bluff and bluster and now their attempts are to dupe MPs into repealing the legislation.



    They could just amend the Benn act to take into account the date ot the second summit (which will presumably be announced on Thursday or Friday?) so Benn wouldn't kick in until 28th October (or whenever the second summit takes place)
    Far too late by then . How on earth can MPs pass the legislation for any deal in three days .

    And if the talks fall apart then no time to enforce the Act .
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,320

    HYUFD said:

    Noo said:

    I find it very sad to see that so many people on this forum are genuinely discussing the UK going to war with Spain. Yes, we could send our tanks over to retake Gibraltar and then play hit n run all the way to Madrid, but everybody knows whilst they're away Denmark would invade. They've been waiting a thousand year for the rematch, they aren't going to pass up the opportunity.

    And I for one welcome our new Danish overlords. God save the (other) queen!

    I know some of the wet lettuces on here are willing to weakly give up British territory without response but a proper PM with balls in the Maggie mode would be made of sterner stuff (as indeed was King Alfred when he beat off the Danes).

    While the troops are re-taking Gibraltar, for strategic reasons the UK should annexe the small Spanish territory on the otherside of the Gibraltar straights in North Africa! It is funny, you never hear about Morocco claiming that enclave! Double standards by the Spanish! :smiley:

    There will be no war with Spain and the above is jest but true!
    Thinking about it we should return Gibraltar and declare the Treaty of Utrecht void ab initio.

    The UK could dismantle most of Europe in one stroke.
    Most of the rest of the Treaty of Utrecht is already void. We were forced to give up Menorca in a deal with the French.
This discussion has been closed.