If we had an opposition leader with a moral compass, some brains to think with and the ability to string a sentence together, this government would be out on its arse before the day is out.
As it is it will shamelessly ignore the decision and probably win the next GE. God help us.
I think Ed Milliband would have had the trust/confidence of the opposition parties and called the VoNC.
Imagine if Jeremy Corbyn potentially had an extra-marital affair with someone who he then funnelled over one hundred thousands pounds of public money to. Do you think the BBC News channel would be ignoring it?
No. The BBC has become a mouthpiece for the Tories . And Laura K managed to spin a SC loss into an advert for Bozo the champion of the people .
Public say Judges right by 49 - 30%. (YouGov) Yet Downing Street seems to be in their own bunker, with everyone closing in on all sides.
That 30% is more than enough to shore up the core Tory vote and 49% is still less than half the voters and almost identical to the 48% who voted Remain in 2016
Isn’t there an argument HY that when one sides supporters are unenthusiastic and tell pollsters they ain’t going to vote, it skews the picture so other sides think they are more ahead than they might actually be come polling day?
Jolyon on Sky saying he has another case in Scotland requesting that the Scottish Courts rule that BoJo has to state before the court he will comply with the Benn bill.
I think these people really need to understand when they are causing more resentment with the electorate than they are gaining.
If we had an opposition leader with a moral compass, some brains to think with and the ability to string a sentence together, this government would be out on its arse before the day is out.
As it is it will shamelessly ignore the decision and probably win the next GE. God help us.
The sad fact is that anything , just anything, is better than Corbyn.
Jolyon on Sky saying he has another case in Scotland requesting that the Scottish Courts rule that BoJo has to state before the court he will comply with the Benn bill.
I think these people really need to understand when they are causing more resentment with the electorate than they are gaining.
Trying to get a judicial review of a decision the government hasn’t made yet? That’s certainly a novel approach.
There’s not a cat in Hell’s chance Boris Johnson is ever going to sign that letter. As soon as a court compels him to do so, the government will resign and let Parliament find someone who will sign it.
Public say Judges right by 49 - 30%. (YouGov) Yet Downing Street seems to be in their own bunker, with everyone closing in on all sides.
That 30% is more than enough to shore up the core Tory vote and 49% is still less than half the voters and almost identical to the 48% who voted Remain in 2016
Isn’t there an argument HY that when one sides supporters are unenthusiastic and tell pollsters they ain’t going to vote, it skews the picture so other sides think they are more ahead than they might actually be come polling day?
Well if Labour voters are now unenthusiastic compared to 2017 given current Labour polling that is dire for Corbyn
Has anyone done the basic arithmetic (ie counting) to work out when GE would in theory be.
If Corbyn waits until after Thurs 31 Oct:
1) If Lab then support motion for a GE on say Mon 4 Nov, 5 weeks from the next Thurs (7 Nov) will be Thurs 12 Dec.
2) But suppose Govt doesn't support motion and Lab then goes VONC route. It's then a minimum of 7 weeks from Thurs 7 Nov which is …………. Thurs 26 Dec! Which is obviously impossible! Which then means going into January.
But wait a minute - that would be within a month of new Brexit deadline of 31 Jan - so would the Commons then need to decide to extend again before dissolving for the GE?
I think it's inconceivable that the EU will agree an extension only to 31st January.
That's a fake date put in the legislation for political manoeuvring purposes. The extension will have to be for longer precisely to allow for an election, a referendum, or both.
If we had an opposition leader with a moral compass, some brains to think with and the ability to string a sentence together, this government would be out on its arse before the day is out.
As it is it will shamelessly ignore the decision and probably win the next GE. God help us.
I think Ed Milliband would have had the trust/confidence of the opposition parties and called the VoNC.
At the moment, the Government have only 288 MPs. Unfortunately, the opposition only have 53 (35SNP + 18LD). The Labour party have completely taken themselves out of the equation, and resort to ranting from the sidelines (usually calling for an election, or demanding someone resign - all something they could force) instead of doing anything useful. And worse is that probably 200 Labour MPs should know better.
Was thinking about the chuckling at lab conf about shortest serving PM ever. Isn't the simple response to say 'one day as her majesty's PM is the greatest honour and is one day more than the rt hon member opposite will ever serve.'?
Jolyon on Sky saying he has another case in Scotland requesting that the Scottish Courts rule that BoJo has to state before the court he will comply with the Benn bill.
I think these people really need to understand when they are causing more resentment with the electorate than they are gaining.
If you no longer want to be in a Union with Scotland, just say.
Was thinking about the chuckling at lab conf about shortest serving PM ever. Isn't the simple response to say 'one day as her majesty's PM is the greatest honour and is one day more than the rt hon member opposite will ever serve.'?
Probably, but Boris is so ego driven I doubt he would think of that response - being so short serving will probably really upset him.
Ostracised? By whom? The Labour Party? That other party in competition to hers?
It really is remarkable the number of Labour politicians who consider the Lib Dems a wholly owned subsidiary of theirs, and believe they should be chastened when they don't behave.
Leavers wanted sovereignty and that’s exactly what they’ve got .
British judges deciding on British law . What’s not to like unless of course the decision doesn’t go your way!
I agree that this is the right decision as was the first Miller case. I still genuinely don't know what Boris was trying to achieve with such a provocative and legally dubious (at the time) act.
But one should not confuse the actions and intentions of the judges - which was to uphold the law as they understand it - with the actions and intentions of those opposing the Government. They have only one aim which is to prevent Brexit. (Snip)
It's far more grey than that in some cases, isn't it? Take Rory Stewart. Once a remainer, but about the only Conservative aside from May willing to really sell May's deal - a deal you also supported (although probably reluctantly) as being Brexit. He was supporting Brexit.
Yet he got the whip withdrawn for voting to stop a no-deal Brexit - i.e. opposing the government.
I was referring specifically to those opposing the Government in this court case.
From his Twitter, he hardly seems to be supporting the government wrt the court case!
It really is remarkable the number of Labour politicians who consider the Lib Dems a wholly owned subsidiary of theirs, and believe they should be chastened when they don't behave.
Indeed. While both oppose the Tories, it doesn't follow they will agree on everything, or else they really would be in the same party. People act like LD voters are directly transferable to Labour as well. They're probably still more willing to tactically back Labour at the present time because of the remain position, but many LDs are passionately for their own identity.
Jolyon on Sky saying he has another case in Scotland requesting that the Scottish Courts rule that BoJo has to state before the court he will comply with the Benn bill.
I think these people really need to understand when they are causing more resentment with the electorate than they are gaining.
Trying to get a judicial review of a decision the government hasn’t made yet? That’s certainly a novel approach.
There’s not a cat in Hell’s chance Boris Johnson is ever going to sign that letter. As soon as a court compels him to do so, the government will resign and let Parliament find someone who will sign it.
I think that's a very high-risk strategy, given that the polls indicate only minority support for leaving without a deal. People are likely to be very concerned by what is about to happen, and for the prime minister to resign without a successor having been arranged for could look irresponsible, to say the least.
Has it ever happened before that the prime minister has resigned without a successor being ready to take over?
Was thinking about the chuckling at lab conf about shortest serving PM ever. Isn't the simple response to say 'one day as her majesty's PM is the greatest honour and is one day more than the rt hon member opposite will ever serve.'?
Probably, but Boris is so ego driven I doubt he would think of that response - being so short serving will probably really upset him.
Jolyon on Sky saying he has another case in Scotland requesting that the Scottish Courts rule that BoJo has to state before the court he will comply with the Benn bill.
I think these people really need to understand when they are causing more resentment with the electorate than they are gaining.
If you no longer want to be in a Union with Scotland, just say.
i would have written the same post if it was the NI or English courts, I stated Scottish to be factual as to where the case is going to happen so people know.
Jolyon on Sky saying he has another case in Scotland requesting that the Scottish Courts rule that BoJo has to state before the court he will comply with the Benn bill.
I think these people really need to understand when they are causing more resentment with the electorate than they are gaining.
If you no longer want to be in a Union with Scotland, just say.
I think you are missing the point - the result of the peoples vote in Scotland was remain.
What this poster does or doesn't want is immaterial in comparison isn't it?
Imagine if Jeremy Corbyn potentially had an extra-marital affair with someone who he then funnelled over one hundred thousands pounds of public money to. Do you think the BBC News channel would be ignoring it?
No. The BBC has become a mouthpiece for the Tories . And Laura K managed to spin a SC loss into an advert for Bozo the champion of the people .
Imagine if Jeremy Corbyn potentially had an extra-marital affair with someone who he then funnelled over one hundred thousands pounds of public money to. Do you think the BBC News channel would be ignoring it?
No. The BBC has become a mouthpiece for the Tories . And Laura K managed to spin a SC loss into an advert for Bozo the champion of the people .
As I've been saying all day at 11am tomorrow Boris needs to walk out of Downing Street and say the government is resigning.
"Unfortunately we are unable to govern. The legislature has become the excutive and so it is now time for them to form a government if they can or to have a general election if they can't. In the meantime you'll find the Conservative Party in Birmingham having our party conference".
And than stand back and watch the Rabble Alliance go at it like ferrets in a sack by half past two....
Imagine if Jeremy Corbyn potentially had an extra-marital affair with someone who he then funnelled over one hundred thousands pounds of public money to. Do you think the BBC News channel would be ignoring it?
No. The BBC has become a mouthpiece for the Tories . And Laura K managed to spin a SC loss into an advert for Bozo the champion of the people .
She is a disgrace.
Don't be ridiculous. Laura Kuensburg is a down the line impartial reporter. It is ridiculous how everyone sees the BBC as biased just because they don't report the news to their political preferences.
For the first time in my life I'm actually looking at emigrating.
No Deal and Corbyn are going to painfully feck this country like dry anal never before, and I'm one of life's optimists.
The Commons has just blocked No Deal and all the polling shows it is a Tory PM agreeing further extension that leads to PM Corbyn not No Deal
Can’t have no deal until 2022 now unless there is a a long extension.
We can if the Tories win a majority on a Deal or No Deal ticket
Need an election for that - 2022 most likely date now surely ?
No as Boris will go into opposition rather than stay PM and agree to extend then VONC the new PM as soon as they have extended to force a GE
As soon as Boris goes ino opposition he loses all the leverage, patronage and prerogative of being the PM. Corbyn would at the same time gain these. Just think about it : Prime Minstser Jeremy Corbyn. The Tories would turn against Boris if he tried going down that road as noone knows where it would lead.
Imagine if Jeremy Corbyn potentially had an extra-marital affair with someone who he then funnelled over one hundred thousands pounds of public money to. Do you think the BBC News channel would be ignoring it?
They're ignoring the fact that he's a stupid communist, so why not?
Imagine if Jeremy Corbyn potentially had an extra-marital affair with someone who he then funnelled over one hundred thousands pounds of public money to. Do you think the BBC News channel would be ignoring it?
No. The BBC has become a mouthpiece for the Tories . And Laura K managed to spin a SC loss into an advert for Bozo the champion of the people .
She is a disgrace.
I used to defend her but no more . Her BBC news item was a disgrace , she spent more time on bigging up Bozo the people’s champion and then played the poor Bozo , MPs will now make his life hell.
Imagine if Jeremy Corbyn potentially had an extra-marital affair with someone who he then funnelled over one hundred thousands pounds of public money to. Do you think the BBC News channel would be ignoring it?
No. The BBC has become a mouthpiece for the Tories . And Laura K managed to spin a SC loss into an advert for Bozo the champion of the people .
She is a disgrace.
Don't be ridiculous. Laura Kuensburg is a down the line impartial reporter. It is ridiculous how everyone sees the BBC as biased just because they don't report the news to their political preferences.
Give over , she is impartial , the same way you are.
"Look 31 October we're out. Deal or no Deal I don't care. We've done it before and we can do it again."
And these people have a vote.
Perhaps the solution is like the one in "the city and the city" where the brexiters live separate lives and don't perceive remainers, and we carry on as before We can give them blue passports so border guards can tell the difference.
Jolyon on Sky saying he has another case in Scotland requesting that the Scottish Courts rule that BoJo has to state before the court he will comply with the Benn bill.
I think these people really need to understand when they are causing more resentment with the electorate than they are gaining.
If you no longer want to be in a Union with Scotland, just say.
It's been funded by the Ecotricity founder Dale Vince. They are going via the Scottish Courts as apparently the Court of Session has a unique legal ability to act instead of the PM if he refuses to send the letter - or so the claim argues. In short of Boris doesn't fulfill his statutory duty the Court of Session could do it for him. As with all cases we'll have to see. Though if you've watched the 15 minute summary judgement from Lady Hale today the Judicial Branch in general isn't going to let Boris trash the constitution by ignoring statute law. The tone and presentation was quite stark.
Jolyon on Sky saying he has another case in Scotland requesting that the Scottish Courts rule that BoJo has to state before the court he will comply with the Benn bill.
I think these people really need to understand when they are causing more resentment with the electorate than they are gaining.
Trying to get a judicial review of a decision the government hasn’t made yet? That’s certainly a novel approach.
There’s not a cat in Hell’s chance Boris Johnson is ever going to sign that letter. As soon as a court compels him to do so, the government will resign and let Parliament find someone who will sign it.
I think that's a very high-risk strategy, given that the polls indicate only minority support for leaving without a deal. People are likely to be very concerned by what is about to happen, and for the prime minister to resign without a successor having been arranged for could look irresponsible, to say the least.
Has it ever happened before that the prime minister has resigned without a successor being ready to take over?
It’s definitely a high-risk strategy, but he’d be completely boxed into a corner. Sign the letter and lose the confidence of his own party, or resign as PM and fight the election as the guy who wouldn’t sign the letter.
Given the LotO refuses to initiate a vote of confidence or support an election, the PM is left with very little choice in the matter.
I seem to recall discussion on here about once before when a PM resigned without nominating a successor (1970s?) but of course that was before the FTPA and all that entails. I wonder if in practice he’d ask Her Majesty to call for the Father of the House, who just happens to be one of the MPs mooted as potentially someone who’d sign the letter and oversee a dissolution.
Boris’s dream scenario would be a court having someone else sign the letter while he remained PM to fight the election, just as Joylon is trying to get a Scottish court to do.
For the first time in my life I'm actually looking at emigrating.
No Deal and Corbyn are going to painfully feck this country like dry anal never before, and I'm one of life's optimists.
The Commons has just blocked No Deal and all the polling shows it is a Tory PM agreeing further extension that leads to PM Corbyn not No Deal
Can’t have no deal until 2022 now unless there is a a long extension.
We can if the Tories win a majority on a Deal or No Deal ticket
Need an election for that - 2022 most likely date now surely ?
No as Boris will go into opposition rather than stay PM and agree to extend then VONC the new PM as soon as they have extended to force a GE
As soon as Boris goes ino opposition he loses all the leverage, patronage and prerogative of being the PM. Corbyn would at the same time gain these. Just think about it : Prime Minstser Jeremy Corbyn. The Tories would turn against Boris if he tried going down that road as noone knows where it would lead.
The other thing Corbyn would gain is access to all the official assessments of and planning for a No Deal Brexit. If I were in Boris Johnson's shoes, I really wouldn't want that information handed over to my opponents.
Imagine if Jeremy Corbyn potentially had an extra-marital affair with someone who he then funnelled over one hundred thousands pounds of public money to. Do you think the BBC News channel would be ignoring it?
No. The BBC has become a mouthpiece for the Tories . And Laura K managed to spin a SC loss into an advert for Bozo the champion of the people .
She is a disgrace.
I used to defend her but no more . Her BBC news item was a disgrace , she spent more time on bigging up Bozo the people’s champion and then played the poor Bozo , MPs will now make his life hell.
For the first time in my life I'm actually looking at emigrating.
No Deal and Corbyn are going to painfully feck this country like dry anal never before, and I'm one of life's optimists.
The Commons has just blocked No Deal and all the polling shows it is a Tory PM agreeing further extension that leads to PM Corbyn not No Deal
Can’t have no deal until 2022 now unless there is a a long extension.
We can if the Tories win a majority on a Deal or No Deal ticket
Need an election for that - 2022 most likely date now surely ?
No as Boris will go into opposition rather than stay PM and agree to extend then VONC the new PM as soon as they have extended to force a GE
As soon as Boris goes ino opposition he loses all the leverage, patronage and prerogative of being the PM. Corbyn would at the same time gain these. Just think about it : Prime Minstser Jeremy Corbyn. The Tories would turn against Boris if he tried going down that road as noone knows where it would lead.
Corbyn wouldn't be PM, the LDs and Independents and Tory rebels would vote him down, more likely it would be Clarke or Beckett.
However a PM Corbyn extending would destroy Labour in Labour Leave seats with dozens falling to the Tories and the Brexit Party at the next general election
Jolyon on Sky saying he has another case in Scotland requesting that the Scottish Courts rule that BoJo has to state before the court he will comply with the Benn bill.
I think these people really need to understand when they are causing more resentment with the electorate than they are gaining.
Trying to get a judicial review of a decision the government hasn’t made yet? That’s certainly a novel approach.
There’s not a cat in Hell’s chance Boris Johnson is ever going to sign that letter. As soon as a court compels him to do so, the government will resign and let Parliament find someone who will sign it.
I think that's a very high-risk strategy, given that the polls indicate only minority support for leaving without a deal. People are likely to be very concerned by what is about to happen, and for the prime minister to resign without a successor having been arranged for could look irresponsible, to say the least.
Has it ever happened before that the prime minister has resigned without a successor being ready to take over?
It’s definitely a high-risk strategy, but he’d be completely boxed into a corner. Sign the letter and lose the confidence of his own party, or resign as PM and fight the election as the guy who wouldn’t sign the letter.
Given the LotO refuses to initiate a vote of confidence or support an election, the PM is left with very little choice in the matter.
I seem to recall discussion on here about once before when a PM resigned without nominating a successor (1970s?) but of course that was before the FTPA and all that entails. I wonder if in practice he’d ask Her Majesty to call for the Father of the House, who just happens to be one of the MPs mooted as potentially someone who’d sign the letter and oversee a dissolution.
Boris’s dream scenario would be a court having someone else sign the letter while he remained PM to fight the election, just as Joylon is trying to get a Scottish court to do.
i was wondering if the got could engineer some king of indicative vote on who should replace BoJo to prove to Queenie who did or did not have the confidence of the house. If no one then Boris resigns and tells Queenie call no one.
Should I join the LibDems then? It's the logical conclusion to my deliberations
We have travelled down the same road albeit at at different speeds. I left the Labour Party not too long after Corbyn took over. Becoming a registered supporter of the LDs rather than a full member might be the answer, it's what I am going to do.
Jolyon on Sky saying he has another case in Scotland requesting that the Scottish Courts rule that BoJo has to state before the court he will comply with the Benn bill.
I think these people really need to understand when they are causing more resentment with the electorate than they are gaining.
Trying to get a judicial review of a decision the government hasn’t made yet? That’s certainly a novel approach.
There’s not a cat in Hell’s chance Boris Johnson is ever going to sign that letter. As soon as a court compels him to do so, the government will resign and let Parliament find someone who will sign it.
I think that's a very high-risk strategy, given that the polls indicate only minority support for leaving without a deal. People are likely to be very concerned by what is about to happen, and for the prime minister to resign without a successor having been arranged for could look irresponsible, to say the least.
Has it ever happened before that the prime minister has resigned without a successor being ready to take over?
Parliament is the governments successor.
Each and everytime they have taken over the order paper they have effectively become the government.
We're in a situation of two governments running parallel - The Conservatives aren't even going to be "allowed" to have their conference by the nominal government. Its an intolerable situation and it needs to end tomorrow.
Now if Parliament can't agree on a leader for their government it's hardly Boris's fault. That's on Parliament as they should have thought about what the consequences would be of forming a second government to rival the current government.
Jolyon on Sky saying he has another case in Scotland requesting that the Scottish Courts rule that BoJo has to state before the court he will comply with the Benn bill.
I think these people really need to understand when they are causing more resentment with the electorate than they are gaining.
Trying to get a judicial review of a decision the government hasn’t made yet? That’s certainly a novel approach.
There’s not a cat in Hell’s chance Boris Johnson is ever going to sign that letter. As soon as a court compels him to do so, the government will resign and let Parliament find someone who will sign it.
I think that's a very high-risk strategy, given that the polls indicate only minority support for leaving without a deal. People are likely to be very concerned by what is about to happen, and for the prime minister to resign without a successor having been arranged for could look irresponsible, to say the least.
Has it ever happened before that the prime minister has resigned without a successor being ready to take over?
It’s definitely a high-risk strategy, but he’d be completely boxed into a corner. Sign the letter and lose the confidence of his own party, or resign as PM and fight the election as the guy who wouldn’t sign the letter.
Given the LotO refuses to initiate a vote of confidence or support an election, the PM is left with very little choice in the matter.
I seem to recall discussion on here about once before when a PM resigned without nominating a successor (1970s?) but of course that was before the FTPA and all that entails. I wonder if in practice he’d ask Her Majesty to call for the Father of the House, who just happens to be one of the MPs mooted as potentially someone who’d sign the letter and oversee a dissolution.
Boris’s dream scenario would be a court having someone else sign the letter while he remained PM to fight the election, just as Joylon is trying to get a Scottish court to do.
i was wondering if the got could engineer some king of indicative vote on who should replace BoJo to prove to Queenie who did or did not have the confidence of the house. If no one then Boris resigns and tells Queenie call no one. Of course The Rabble Alliance would have another 14 days to find somebody.
Indeed otherwise Boris will have guaranteed a snap general election
Jolyon on Sky saying he has another case in Scotland requesting that the Scottish Courts rule that BoJo has to state before the court he will comply with the Benn bill.
I think these people really need to understand when they are causing more resentment with the electorate than they are gaining.
Trying to get a judicial review of a decision the government hasn’t made yet? That’s certainly a novel approach.
There’s not a cat in Hell’s chance Boris Johnson is ever going to sign that letter. As soon as a court compels him to do so, the government will resign and let Parliament find someone who will sign it.
I think that's a very high-risk strategy, given that the polls indicate only minority support for leaving without a deal. People are likely to be very concerned by what is about to happen, and for the prime minister to resign without a successor having been arranged for could look irresponsible, to say the least.
Has it ever happened before that the prime minister has resigned without a successor being ready to take over?
Parliament is the governments successor.
Each and everytime they have taken over the order paper thry have effectively become the government.
We're in a situation of two governments running parallel - The Conservatives aren't even going to be "allowed" to have their conference by the nominal government. Its an intolerable situation and it needs to end tomorrow.
i was wondering if the got could engineer some king of indicative vote on who should replace BoJo to prove to Queenie who did or did not have the confidence of the house. If no one then Boris resigns and tells Queenie call no one. Of course The Rabble Alliance would have another 14 days to find somebody.
Indeed otherwise Boris will have guaranteed a snap general election
That would almost certainly make either Swinson or Corbyn Blink. They'd get together and form a GNU for long enough to engineer an election.
The 14 day window does NOT apply if Johnson resigns voluntarily
I think, although I may be wrong, that he can only formally resign if he can name a successor. regardless as to what happens within parliament he would remain PM until someone can prove that they have confidence of the house. This still holds regardless as to whether the FTPA applies or not
The 14 day window does NOT apply if Johnson resigns voluntarily
I think, although I may be wrong, that he can only formally resign if he can name a successor. regardless as to what happens within parliament he would remain PM until someone can prove that they have confidence of the house. This still holds regardless as to whether the FTPA applies or not
Yes agreed, but if he resigns there is no 14 days and then GE unless it's a formal FTPA no confidence resignation
I bet reform of the judiciary will feature in the next majority govt
I expect the next Tory manifesto will include US Supreme Court style hearings for new top judges
I really hope we don’t go down that rabbit hole.
An 11-person court today ruled unanimously against the government, what needs to happen now is for everyone to move on whether we liked the decision or not.
Do you really want an American style system, where politicians cheer a judge dying, where an 86 year old woman is being pumped full of drugs and told she can’t retire, where someone’s partying at university is somehow relevant to their employment 35 years later, etc etc?
This truly is the Rotten Parliament.. I have looked in vain for the bookmaker odds on the two most fitting candidates for its next PM. They are surely Jared Omara or Keith Vaz.
I bet reform of the judiciary will feature in the next majority govt
I expect the next Tory manifesto will include US Supreme Court style hearings for new top judges
I really hope we don’t go down that rabbit hole.
An 11-person court today ruled unanimously against the government, what needs to happen now is for everyone to move on whether we liked the decision or not.
There's too much to gain politically by demonising the court (while making phoney comments about totally respecting it). Boris needs to keep the anger going until there's an election, which might still be some way off, so it won't stop.
The 14 day window does NOT apply if Johnson resigns voluntarily
I think, although I may be wrong, that he can only formally resign if he can name a successor. regardless as to what happens within parliament he would remain PM until someone can prove that they have confidence of the house. This still holds regardless as to whether the FTPA applies or not
Yes agreed, but if he resigns there is no 14 days and then GE unless it's a formal FTPA no confidence resignation
Parliament would then have to start voting on who had the confidence of the house and the FTPA would kick in automatically.
I seem to remember (but could be completely wrong) that is it not the case that whilst the official Opposition have the unarguable *right* to call a no confidence motion, the other smaller parties can ask the government to consider it - they didn't have to, but in this situation might that be something they are desperate for? The SNP seem punchy for a no-confidence motion.
Wasn't this something that was touched on months ago when other parties were urging Labour to call a vote on May?
I bet reform of the judiciary will feature in the next majority govt
I expect the next Tory manifesto will include US Supreme Court style hearings for new top judges
I really hope we don’t go down that rabbit hole.
An 11-person court today ruled unanimously against the government, what needs to happen now is for everyone to move on whether we liked the decision or not.
We must slavishly follow 52-48 victories but not 100-0 ones, it seems
The 14 day window does NOT apply if Johnson resigns voluntarily
I think, although I may be wrong, that he can only formally resign if he can name a successor. regardless as to what happens within parliament he would remain PM until someone can prove that they have confidence of the house. This still holds regardless as to whether the FTPA applies or not
Yes agreed, but if he resigns there is no 14 days and then GE unless it's a formal FTPA no confidence resignation
Parliament would then have to start voting on who had the confidence of the house and the FTPA would kick in automatically.
I dont see why it kicks in? No no confidence motion or 2/3 vote has been passed
So Parliament is going to after the legal advice again apparently. Perhaps I'm being stupid, but what is gained from doing so? We already know that the legal advice was wrong, as it turned out.
I seem to remember (but could be completely wrong) that is it not the case that whilst the official Opposition have the unarguable *right* to call a no confidence motion, the other smaller parties can ask the government to consider it - they didn't have to, but in this situation might that be something they are desperate for? The SNP seem punchy for a no-confidence motion.
Wasn't this something that was touched on months ago when other parties were urging Labour to call a vote on May?
They can ask the Speaker to consider it. I wonder what he’ll say?
The 14 day window does NOT apply if Johnson resigns voluntarily
I think, although I may be wrong, that he can only formally resign if he can name a successor. regardless as to what happens within parliament he would remain PM until someone can prove that they have confidence of the house. This still holds regardless as to whether the FTPA applies or not
Yes agreed, but if he resigns there is no 14 days and then GE unless it's a formal FTPA no confidence resignation
Parliament would then have to start voting on who had the confidence of the house and the FTPA would kick in automatically.
I dont see why it kicks in? No no confidence motion or 2/3 vote has been passed
It doesn't. The position is exactly the same as when Theresa May resigned.
Boris Johnson's command of the confidence of the House of Commons has never been tested.
I seem to remember (but could be completely wrong) that is it not the case that whilst the official Opposition have the unarguable *right* to call a no confidence motion, the other smaller parties can ask the government to consider it - they didn't have to, but in this situation might that be something they are desperate for? The SNP seem punchy for a no-confidence motion.
Wasn't this something that was touched on months ago when other parties were urging Labour to call a vote on May?
They can ask to Speaker to consider it. I wonder what he’ll say?
If Labour wouldn't back it at that time, and they'd surely indicate if that was so, he'd say no. Not because he does what they say, but because he won't want there to be a vote called by the opposition on it unless it would succeed.
The 14 day window does NOT apply if Johnson resigns voluntarily
I think, although I may be wrong, that he can only formally resign if he can name a successor. regardless as to what happens within parliament he would remain PM until someone can prove that they have confidence of the house. This still holds regardless as to whether the FTPA applies or not
Yes agreed, but if he resigns there is no 14 days and then GE unless it's a formal FTPA no confidence resignation
Parliament would then have to start voting on who had the confidence of the house and the FTPA would kick in automatically.
I dont see why it kicks in? No no confidence motion or 2/3 vote has been passed
once, say, Jeremy Corbyn tries (and fails) to obtain the confidence of the house the FPTA will kick in.
The 14 day window does NOT apply if Johnson resigns voluntarily
I think, although I may be wrong, that he can only formally resign if he can name a successor. regardless as to what happens within parliament he would remain PM until someone can prove that they have confidence of the house. This still holds regardless as to whether the FTPA applies or not
Yes agreed, but if he resigns there is no 14 days and then GE unless it's a formal FTPA no confidence resignation
Parliament would then have to start voting on who had the confidence of the house and the FTPA would kick in automatically.
Parliament would indeed be reconvened immediately to try and work out who has their confidence, but the FTPA 14-day window doesn’t kick in unless a specifically worded motion is passed that “This house has no confidence in HM government”, which would first require a new PM to be nominated and installed.
The 14 day window does NOT apply if Johnson resigns voluntarily
I think, although I may be wrong, that he can only formally resign if he can name a successor. regardless as to what happens within parliament he would remain PM until someone can prove that they have confidence of the house. This still holds regardless as to whether the FTPA applies or not
Yes agreed, but if he resigns there is no 14 days and then GE unless it's a formal FTPA no confidence resignation
Parliament would then have to start voting on who had the confidence of the house and the FTPA would kick in automatically.
I dont see why it kicks in? No no confidence motion or 2/3 vote has been passed
once, say, Jeremy Corbyn tries (and fails) to obtain the confidence of the house the FPTA will kick in.
The 14 day window does NOT apply if Johnson resigns voluntarily
I think, although I may be wrong, that he can only formally resign if he can name a successor. regardless as to what happens within parliament he would remain PM until someone can prove that they have confidence of the house. This still holds regardless as to whether the FTPA applies or not
Yes agreed, but if he resigns there is no 14 days and then GE unless it's a formal FTPA no confidence resignation
Parliament would then have to start voting on who had the confidence of the house and the FTPA would kick in automatically.
I dont see why it kicks in? No no confidence motion or 2/3 vote has been passed
It doesn't. The position is exactly the same as when Theresa May resigned.
Boris Johnson's command of the confidence of the House of Commons has never been tested.
No the position is not the same. May resigned as leader of the Tory party. Her stepping down as PM was only as a consequence of that. If Boris stood down as PM and remained leader of the Tory party then someone else would have to be selected from Parliament to try and form a Government and face a vote of confidence. On face value there is no one who appears to be able to do that.
Here are some more detailed implied probabilities from Betfair (small amount of rounding applied and some of these markets moved a bit while I was compiling so as ever DYOR).
Cumulative probabilities of Brexit/General Election (XXX = no market) By 31 Oct 2019: Any Brexit 19%; GE 2% By 30 Nov 2019: Any Brexit XXX; GE 37% By 31 Dec 2019: Any Brexit 33% (No Deal 18%, Deal 15%); GE 72% By 30 June 2020: Any Brexit 58%; GE XXX By 31 Dec 2020: Any Brexit 67%; GE 98% By 31 Dec 2021: Any Brexit 75%; GE 99%
GE before Brexit (or No Brexit): 82% 2nd referendum in 2019: 4% Article 50 revoked: 31%
GE most seats: Con 67%, Lab 22%, LD 7%, Other 4% GE majority: None 57%, Con 33%, Lab 7%, LD 2%, Brexit 1%
Mortgage finance is another issue where the system is biased against the young. For the same occupier, the state owned banks will lend more to a landlord than an owner using the occupiers income. It is hugely unfair and a state handout to the already wealthy at the expense of the young.
Err:
Buy-to-let mortgages are a lot like ordinary mortgages, but with some key differences:
- The fees tend to be much higher.
- Interest rates on buy-to-let mortgages are usually higher.
- The minimum deposit for a buy-to-let mortgage is usually 25% of the property’s value (although it can vary between 20-40%).
And now you can't even count it all as a business expense, and you pay more stamp duty, and you pay CGT if you do sell.
If that's a 'state handout to the already wealthy', I'd like to see what you think a penalty is.
Imagine someone earning 50k willing to spend 2k a month on rent but preferring to buy a house. The banks will lend them around 200k if they want to buy.
A landlord can borrow up to £331,034 based on that persons rent of 2k per month.
Longer term outcome: The young have little stake in society and turn to Corbynism.
Then why criticise them for voting for Corbyn? Perhaps he will help them regain their stake in society. It's not like any other politician has anything to offer them.
The 14 day window does NOT apply if Johnson resigns voluntarily
I think, although I may be wrong, that he can only formally resign if he can name a successor. regardless as to what happens within parliament he would remain PM until someone can prove that they have confidence of the house. This still holds regardless as to whether the FTPA applies or not
Yes agreed, but if he resigns there is no 14 days and then GE unless it's a formal FTPA no confidence resignation
Parliament would then have to start voting on who had the confidence of the house and the FTPA would kick in automatically.
I dont see why it kicks in? No no confidence motion or 2/3 vote has been passed
It doesn't. The position is exactly the same as when Theresa May resigned.
Boris Johnson's command of the confidence of the House of Commons has never been tested.
No the position is not the same. May resigned as leader of the Tory party. Her stepping down as PM was only as a consequence of that. If Boris stood down as PM and remained leader of the Tory party then someone else would have to be selected from Parliament to try and form a Government and face a vote of confidence. On face value there is no one who appears to be able to do that.
Boris would be better off waiting for send a letter day to do that.
The 14 day window does NOT apply if Johnson resigns voluntarily
I think, although I may be wrong, that he can only formally resign if he can name a successor. regardless as to what happens within parliament he would remain PM until someone can prove that they have confidence of the house. This still holds regardless as to whether the FTPA applies or not
Yes agreed, but if he resigns there is no 14 days and then GE unless it's a formal FTPA no confidence resignation
Parliament would then have to start voting on who had the confidence of the house and the FTPA would kick in automatically.
Parliament would indeed be reconvened immediately to try and work out who has their confidence, but the FTPA 14-day window doesn’t kick in unless a specifically worded motion is passed that “This house has no confidence in HM government”, which would first require a new PM to be nominated and installed.
Does the Queen have to nominate a new PM if no one can show they have the confidence of the House. Once again the huge gaps in the FTPA become apparent
The 14 day window does NOT apply if Johnson resigns voluntarily
I think, although I may be wrong, that he can only formally resign if he can name a successor. regardless as to what happens within parliament he would remain PM until someone can prove that they have confidence of the house. This still holds regardless as to whether the FTPA applies or not
Yes agreed, but if he resigns there is no 14 days and then GE unless it's a formal FTPA no confidence resignation
Parliament would then have to start voting on who had the confidence of the house and the FTPA would kick in automatically.
I dont see why it kicks in? No no confidence motion or 2/3 vote has been passed
It doesn't. The position is exactly the same as when Theresa May resigned.
Boris Johnson's command of the confidence of the House of Commons has never been tested.
No the position is not the same. May resigned as leader of the Tory party. Her stepping down as PM was only as a consequence of that. If Boris stood down as PM and remained leader of the Tory party then someone else would have to be selected from Parliament to try and form a Government and face a vote of confidence. On face value there is no one who appears to be able to do that.
Boris would be better off waiting for send a letter day to do that.
Trump should never have actually gone after his political opponents. Rookie mistake.
Pelosi was perfectly fine to let the Ruling Class get away with any old shit they liked but Trump had to disturb that order by going after one of their own in Biden.
The 14 day window does NOT apply if Johnson resigns voluntarily
I think, although I may be wrong, that he can only formally resign if he can name a successor. regardless as to what happens within parliament he would remain PM until someone can prove that they have confidence of the house. This still holds regardless as to whether the FTPA applies or not
Yes agreed, but if he resigns there is no 14 days and then GE unless it's a formal FTPA no confidence resignation
Parliament would then have to start voting on who had the confidence of the house and the FTPA would kick in automatically.
Parliament would indeed be reconvened immediately to try and work out who has their confidence, but the FTPA 14-day window doesn’t kick in unless a specifically worded motion is passed that “This house has no confidence in HM government”, which would first require a new PM to be nominated and installed.
as I said before, the PM can't resign unless there is someone to take over. they can resign every other position but until the HoC has confidence in someone else they will remain PM.
The 14 day window does NOT apply if Johnson resigns voluntarily
I think, although I may be wrong, that he can only formally resign if he can name a successor. regardless as to what happens within parliament he would remain PM until someone can prove that they have confidence of the house. This still holds regardless as to whether the FTPA applies or not
Yes agreed, but if he resigns there is no 14 days and then GE unless it's a formal FTPA no confidence resignation
Parliament would then have to start voting on who had the confidence of the house and the FTPA would kick in automatically.
I dont see why it kicks in? No no confidence motion or 2/3 vote has been passed
It doesn't. The position is exactly the same as when Theresa May resigned.
Boris Johnson's command of the confidence of the House of Commons has never been tested.
No the position is not the same. May resigned as leader of the Tory party. Her stepping down as PM was only as a consequence of that. If Boris stood down as PM and remained leader of the Tory party then someone else would have to be selected from Parliament to try and form a Government and face a vote of confidence. On face value there is no one who appears to be able to do that.
His position as leader of the Conservative party is separate from the question of whether he or anyone else commands the confidence of the Commons. There is no in-built role in the constitution for the Conservative party.
BBC News - Boris and Brenda have had a chat. No news yet on whether Brenda has followed Lady Hales and handed the Prime Minister his testicles, albeit on a charming silver salver.
I bet reform of the judiciary will feature in the next majority govt
I expect the next Tory manifesto will include US Supreme Court style hearings for new top judges
You really want that shit from the US?
Notr really, but surely its the natual conclussion of having having a "Supreme Court" ?
A name is just a name, it doesn't lead them to any particular destination, especially when whatever the consequences of today's ruling the balance of power between the institutions in this nation are still quite different to those of the United States.
The 14 day window does NOT apply if Johnson resigns voluntarily
I think, although I may be wrong, that he can only formally resign if he can name a successor. regardless as to what happens within parliament he would remain PM until someone can prove that they have confidence of the house. This still holds regardless as to whether the FTPA applies or not
Yes agreed, but if he resigns there is no 14 days and then GE unless it's a formal FTPA no confidence resignation
Parliament would then have to start voting on who had the confidence of the house and the FTPA would kick in automatically.
Parliament would indeed be reconvened immediately to try and work out who has their confidence, but the FTPA 14-day window doesn’t kick in unless a specifically worded motion is passed that “This house has no confidence in HM government”, which would first require a new PM to be nominated and installed.
Does the Queen have to nominate a new PM if no one can show they have the confidence of the House. Once again the huge gaps in the FTPA become apparent
If a PM can’t be nominated from the rabble sitting opposite the current government, then does she have any choice left but to dissolve Parliament?
In practice they’ll have to nominate someone, if they want that letter sent to Brussels. Even if that person resigns a day later.
Yes, the FTPA is the most almighty constitutional fcukup. Thanks Nick Clegg for that one!
BBC News - Boris and Brenda have had a chat. No news yet on whether Brenda has followed Lady Hales and handed the Prime Minister his testicles, albeit on a charming silver salver.
Presumably that’s just the horse’s doofers for the full-on face-to-face bollocking she’s going to give him?
BBC News - Boris and Brenda have had a chat. No news yet on whether Brenda has followed Lady Hales and handed the Prime Minister his testicles, albeit on a charming silver salver.
This post really confused me considering Lady Hale's first name is, in fact, Brenda...
Should I join the LibDems then? It's the logical conclusion to my deliberations
We have travelled down the same road albeit at at different speeds. I left the Labour Party not too long after Corbyn took over. Becoming a registered supporter of the LDs rather than a full member might be the answer, it's what I am going to do.
I was not aware that people could register as 'Tory Little Helpers'.
BBC News - Boris and Brenda have had a chat. No news yet on whether Brenda has followed Lady Hales and handed the Prime Minister his testicles, albeit on a charming silver salver.
Brenda from the Bar, Brenda in Balmoral and Brenda from Bristol.
Yeah, because that will make the current constitutional crisis better, a change in Monarch. It's the last thing she would do, unless her health meant that she could not fulfil her role.
Comments
I think these people really need to understand when they are causing more resentment with the electorate than they are gaining.
There’s not a cat in Hell’s chance Boris Johnson is ever going to sign that letter. As soon as a court compels him to do so, the government will resign and let Parliament find someone who will sign it.
I don't think the people are, but it's just plain silly at the moment.
That's a fake date put in the legislation for political manoeuvring purposes. The extension will have to be for longer precisely to allow for an election, a referendum, or both.
I think 31st December 2020 is most likely.
Unfortunately, the opposition only have 53 (35SNP + 18LD).
The Labour party have completely taken themselves out of the equation, and resort to ranting from the sidelines (usually calling for an election, or demanding someone resign - all something they could force) instead of doing anything useful.
And worse is that probably 200 Labour MPs should know better.
Has it ever happened before that the prime minister has resigned without a successor being ready to take over?
What this poster does or doesn't want is immaterial in comparison isn't it?
Bloody gorgeous though.
"Unfortunately we are unable to govern. The legislature has become the excutive and so it is now time for them to form a government if they can or to have a general election if they can't. In the meantime you'll find the Conservative Party in Birmingham having our party conference".
And than stand back and watch the Rabble Alliance go at it like ferrets in a sack by half past two....
She may aswell join no 10 .
Labour being an example of far, far worse.
They might have to go in my 'Brexit' box (albeit in the freezer).
Given the LotO refuses to initiate a vote of confidence or support an election, the PM is left with very little choice in the matter.
I seem to recall discussion on here about once before when a PM resigned without nominating a successor (1970s?) but of course that was before the FTPA and all that entails. I wonder if in practice he’d ask Her Majesty to call for the Father of the House, who just happens to be one of the MPs mooted as potentially someone who’d sign the letter and oversee a dissolution.
Boris’s dream scenario would be a court having someone else sign the letter while he remained PM to fight the election, just as Joylon is trying to get a Scottish court to do.
It's a thought, I'll give you that.
But what the clip showed was how leaving the EU is in the minds of people like that guy totally bound up with WW2 fetishism.
This is not a good thing.
However a PM Corbyn extending would destroy Labour in Labour Leave seats with dozens falling to the Tories and the Brexit Party at the next general election
Each and everytime they have taken over the order paper they have effectively become the government.
We're in a situation of two governments running parallel - The Conservatives aren't even going to be "allowed" to have their conference by the nominal government. Its an intolerable situation and it needs to end tomorrow.
Now if Parliament can't agree on a leader for their government it's hardly Boris's fault. That's on Parliament as they should have thought about what the consequences would be of forming a second government to rival the current government.
Quite
An 11-person court today ruled unanimously against the government, what needs to happen now is for everyone to move on whether we liked the decision or not.
Do you really want an American style system, where politicians cheer a judge dying, where an 86 year old woman is being pumped full of drugs and told she can’t retire, where someone’s partying at university is somehow relevant to their employment 35 years later, etc etc?
Wasn't this something that was touched on months ago when other parties were urging Labour to call a vote on May?
Boris Johnson's command of the confidence of the House of Commons has never been tested.
Huuuuuge news. The biggest.
Cumulative probabilities of Brexit/General Election (XXX = no market)
By 31 Oct 2019: Any Brexit 19%; GE 2%
By 30 Nov 2019: Any Brexit XXX; GE 37%
By 31 Dec 2019: Any Brexit 33% (No Deal 18%, Deal 15%); GE 72%
By 30 June 2020: Any Brexit 58%; GE XXX
By 31 Dec 2020: Any Brexit 67%; GE 98%
By 31 Dec 2021: Any Brexit 75%; GE 99%
GE before Brexit (or No Brexit): 82%
2nd referendum in 2019: 4%
Article 50 revoked: 31%
GE most seats: Con 67%, Lab 22%, LD 7%, Other 4%
GE majority: None 57%, Con 33%, Lab 7%, LD 2%, Brexit 1%
Boris: All is fine, your most gracious majesty.
Pelosi was perfectly fine to let the Ruling Class get away with any old shit they liked but Trump had to disturb that order by going after one of their own in Biden.
Just as an elected HoL is the natural end point of removing the hereditary peers and filling it up with cronies instead?
A fully federal UK should also be the end point of devolution as well?
All these things seem to flow naturally from the New Labour reforms... Its just taking us a long time to get there...
In practice they’ll have to nominate someone, if they want that letter sent to Brussels. Even if that person resigns a day later.
Yes, the FTPA is the most almighty constitutional fcukup. Thanks Nick Clegg for that one!
https://twitter.com/scotnational/status/1176568733248237568?s=21
(That’s quite enough Brendas - Ed)