Given Boris will resign as PM by October 31st rather than extend if a new Brexit Deal has not been agreed with the EU and approved by Parliament by then and given the LDs will vote down a Corbyn government as will Tory anti No Deal rebels only a PM acceptable to the LDs and Tory rebels will do. That probably means PM Ken Clarke or maybe PM Harman or PM Beckett by the end of October.
Have you considered the optics of Boris coming back from the European Council summit empty handed and then resigning? He will look like a total loser.
The Labour Party appear to be floating a range of ideas which might benefit ordinary people at the expense of wealthy vested interests.
They really ought to stop that.
Like scrapping private schools, 32 hour weeks and according to the Labour MP for Brighton Kemptown Labour should even enable the state to take over private housing
Not going for a GE will backfire massively on the rebel alliance. They will be getting that doorstep feedback again. What's the selling point when they finally allow one? We prevented Brexit against the expressed will of the referendum and played political games to do it, now please throw us some fish from the bucket?! We delayed and now we want to rule so we can delay some more! Anger is going to boil over in the ballot box and a hell of a lot are going to be swept away by it.
I think anger can go in many directions. I am angry about what a bunch of far right loons have done to the Conservative Party, economic stability, the constitution and the Monarch. Yea, in a non-violent way I am very angry, and I want Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson to be totally humiliated in some way or other (ideally not via Mr Thicky Corbyn). It will be the biggest amount of schadenfreude I have ever allowed myself when he is ignominiously removed from power in absolute disgrace and goes down in history as the worst most incompetent idiot to ever have held high office
Oh I think the anger is at the lot of them and the election will go to whoever best encapsulates 'fuck the system' That seems atm to be Johnson
Possibly. Personally I think the anger should be directed at those who conned a gullible electorate into thinking it was going to be easy. Simplistic Populism : Wrecking a stable democracy near you.
The Labour Party appear to be floating a range of ideas which might benefit ordinary people at the expense of wealthy vested interests.
They really ought to stop that.
I'm no expert on the pharma industry so wouldn't know whether having a state owned drugs monopoly is a good idea in terms of producing drugs that people want and need.
Nor am I clear how any resulting drugs shortage benefits those left behind.
But as you say we voted leave to turn things on their head and this looks like doing that.
Free presciption, free unis, free social care, free training.
taxes up for top 5%, and corporations
Money forest is blooming
It always amazes me that the left/hard left don't realise that they can put tax rates up as much as they want for the top end but it doesn't always raise more tax.
Do you reckon any of them have ever even heard of Arthur Laffer?
The Labour Party appear to be floating a range of ideas which might benefit ordinary people at the expense of wealthy vested interests.
They really ought to stop that.
Can you please define an 'ordinary' person? Is it someone with two legs, two arms and a head (in which case, the disability rights people will rightly be after your head)?
Or is it anyone who isn't 'rich' (which usually just means someone who is slightly more wealthy than you, and might include Corbyn himself), or the 'establishment' (which as we've seen, seems too include everyone aside from Mrs Miggin's blind bridge partner's hamster) ?
As a contributor to PB, are you, in fact, ordinary?
Given Boris will resign as PM by October 31st rather than extend if a new Brexit Deal has not been agreed with the EU and approved by Parliament by then and given the LDs will vote down a Corbyn government as will Tory anti No Deal rebels only a PM acceptable to the LDs and Tory rebels will do. That probably means PM Ken Clarke or maybe PM Harman or PM Beckett by the end of October.
Boris will be Leader of the Opposition regardless with Corbyn forced to prop up a Clarke or Harman premiership until extension has been passed and Boris then pushes a VONC he will have to support
These are somewhat different to the confident predictions you made about your hero only a few days ago? Have we shifted to a parallel universe, or are you still talking unsubstantiated guesswork/crap?
The Labour Party appear to be floating a range of ideas which might benefit ordinary people at the expense of wealthy vested interests.
They really ought to stop that.
OK lets take it on face value.
If you want to help "ordinary people" (never quite sure why the unusual do not need government to work for them as well), then you need to be in power.
There is a deeply unpopular prime minister who has just been found to have broken the law on a major constitutional matter and a parliamentary "majority" of -40. It should be easy to replace him, all you need to do is carry the centre ground who are scared of the radical change offered by no deal Brexit.
You could do that by focusing on house building and education for example, leaving the other areas for the future. You do not do it by offering radical change of your own, that the centre cannot get behind.
Within weeks we would have no drugs for the NHS that are produced abroad and within a year the destruction of our pharma sector. From just one of the lunatic policies!
It is not achievable within the EU (or single market)
Given Boris will resign as PM by October 31st rather than extend if a new Brexit Deal has not been agreed with the EU and approved by Parliament by then and given the LDs will vote down a Corbyn government as will Tory anti No Deal rebels only a PM acceptable to the LDs and Tory rebels will do. That probably means PM Ken Clarke or maybe PM Harman or PM Beckett by the end of October.
Have you considered the optics of Boris coming back from the European Council summit empty handed and then resigning? He will look like a total loser.
No, Boris will say the EU has refused to scrap the backstop and rather than do a May and agree Munich Agreement 2 or extend again and betray Brexit he will lead the Tories into opposition on a Brexit Deal or No Deal platform and prepare the next stage of the war with the die hard Remainers
Not going for a GE will backfire massively on the rebel alliance. They will be getting that doorstep feedback again. What's the selling point when they finally allow one? We prevented Brexit against the expressed will of the referendum and played political games to do it, now please throw us some fish from the bucket?! We delayed and now we want to rule so we can delay some more! Anger is going to boil over in the ballot box and a hell of a lot are going to be swept away by it.
I think anger can go in many directions. I am angry about what a bunch of far right loons have done to the Conservative Party, economic stability, the constitution and the Monarch. Yea, in a non-violent way I am very angry, and I want Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson to be totally humiliated in some way or other (ideally not via Mr Thicky Corbyn). It will be the biggest amount of schadenfreude I have ever allowed myself when he is ignominiously removed from power in absolute disgrace and goes down in history as the worst most incompetent idiot to ever have held high office
Oh I think the anger is at the lot of them and the election will go to whoever best encapsulates 'fuck the system' That seems atm to be Johnson
Right now both sides of the political spectrum are putting in a very strong bid for that. Though 'smash it to smithereens and damn the consequences' might be more accurate.
Not going for a GE will backfire massively on the rebel alliance. They will be getting that doorstep feedback again. What's the selling point when they finally allow one? We prevented Brexit against the expressed will of the referendum and played political games to do it, now please throw us some fish from the bucket?! We delayed and now we want to rule so we can delay some more! Anger is going to boil over in the ballot box and a hell of a lot are going to be swept away by it.
I think anger can go in many directions. I am angry about what a bunch of far right loons have done to the Conservative Party, economic stability, the constitution and the Monarch. Yea, in a non-violent way I am very angry, and I want Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson to be totally humiliated in some way or other (ideally not via Mr Thicky Corbyn). It will be the biggest amount of schadenfreude I have ever allowed myself when he is ignominiously removed from power in absolute disgrace and goes down in history as the worst most incompetent idiot to ever have held high office
mr thicky is currently outplaying the oxford brains
Given Boris will resign as PM by October 31st rather than extend if a new Brexit Deal has not been agreed with the EU and approved by Parliament by then and given the LDs will vote down a Corbyn government as will Tory anti No Deal rebels only a PM acceptable to the LDs and Tory rebels will do. That probably means PM Ken Clarke or maybe PM Harman or PM Beckett by the end of October.
Have you considered the optics of Boris coming back from the European Council summit empty handed and then resigning? He will look like a total loser.
No, Boris will say the EU has refused to scrap the backstop and rather than do a May and agree Munich Agreement 2 or extend again and betray Brexit he will lead the Tories into opposition on a Brexit Deal or No Deal platform and prepare the next stage of the war with the die hard Remainers
Is that die hard or diehard? I like to get the temrinology right.
Not going for a GE will backfire massively on the rebel alliance. They will be getting that doorstep feedback again. What's the selling point when they finally allow one? We prevented Brexit against the expressed will of the referendum and played political games to do it, now please throw us some fish from the bucket?! We delayed and now we want to rule so we can delay some more! Anger is going to boil over in the ballot box and a hell of a lot are going to be swept away by it.
I think anger can go in many directions. I am angry about what a bunch of far right loons have done to the Conservative Party, economic stability, the constitution and the Monarch. Yea, in a non-violent way I am very angry, and I want Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson to be totally humiliated in some way or other (ideally not via Mr Thicky Corbyn). It will be the biggest amount of schadenfreude I have ever allowed myself when he is ignominiously removed from power in absolute disgrace and goes down in history as the worst most incompetent idiot to ever have held high office
Oh I think the anger is at the lot of them and the election will go to whoever best encapsulates 'fuck the system' That seems atm to be Johnson
Possibly. Personally I think the anger should be directed at those who conned a gullible electorate into thinking it was going to be easy. Simplistic Populism : Wrecking a stable democracy near you.
Theres an argument for that yes, but rn I think Boris stands best chance of riding the anger wave. That might change
Given Boris will resign as PM by October 31st rather than extend if a new Brexit Deal has not been agreed with the EU and approved by Parliament by then and given the LDs will vote down a Corbyn government as will Tory anti No Deal rebels only a PM acceptable to the LDs and Tory rebels will do. That probably means PM Ken Clarke or maybe PM Harman or PM Beckett by the end of October.
Boris will be Leader of the Opposition regardless with Corbyn forced to prop up a Clarke or Harman premiership until extension has been passed and Boris then pushes a VONC he will have to support
When's the referendum on the backstop in Northern Ireland?
The Labour Party appear to be floating a range of ideas which might benefit ordinary people at the expense of wealthy vested interests.
They really ought to stop that.
OK lets take it on face value.
If you want to help "ordinary people" (never quite sure why the unusual do not need government to work for them as well), then you need to be in power.
There is a deeply unpopular prime minister who has just been found to have broken the law on a major constitutional matter and a parliamentary "majority" of -40. It should be easy to replace him, all you need to do is carry the centre ground who are scared of the radical change offered by no deal Brexit.
You could do that by focusing on house building and education for example, leaving the other areas for the future. You do not do it by offering radical change of your own, that the centre cannot get behind.
He isn't a deeply unpopular PM according to polling. Hes slightly negatively viewed. That's something it's easy to forget in the maelstrom.
Given Boris will resign as PM by October 31st rather than extend if a new Brexit Deal has not been agreed with the EU and approved by Parliament by then and given the LDs will vote down a Corbyn government as will Tory anti No Deal rebels only a PM acceptable to the LDs and Tory rebels will do. That probably means PM Ken Clarke or maybe PM Harman or PM Beckett by the end of October.
Boris will be Leader of the Opposition regardless with Corbyn forced to prop up a Clarke or Harman premiership until extension has been passed and Boris then pushes a VONC he will have to support
These are somewhat different to the confident predictions you made about your hero only a few days ago? Have we shifted to a parallel universe, or are you still talking unsubstantiated guesswork/crap?
this will put the cat among the pigeons. We will enter a promises auction and some of the pent up frustrations will have to be addressed. The Tories can choose to either have a counter vision or be outflanked.
Well as I keep saying - there is no point leaving the EU unless we use our greater sovereignty to do some serious things which we could NOT have done as a member. It will have been a complete and utter waste of time if we don't.
So this means post Brexit we go economically hard LEFT or we go hard RIGHT.
LEFT - big tax & spend, big interventionist state, redistribution.
RIGHT - low reg, low tax, small state, market rules the roost.
I don't think this point (of mine) is sufficiently appreciated.
Given Boris will resign as PM by October 31st rather than extend if a new Brexit Deal has not been agreed with the EU and approved by Parliament by then and given the LDs will vote down a Corbyn government as will Tory anti No Deal rebels only a PM acceptable to the LDs and Tory rebels will do. That probably means PM Ken Clarke or maybe PM Harman or PM Beckett by the end of October.
Boris will be Leader of the Opposition regardless with Corbyn forced to prop up a Clarke or Harman premiership until extension has been passed and Boris then pushes a VONC he will have to support
Boris Johnson should resign now! Bozo is wrong and extreame. No Tory supporter should give him unqualified support! Brexit is a national disaster. BJ always said if we cannot get a better deal we should Remain. Google it and his public statement on politics home will show you his true opinion.
Could big drug companies just withdraw from the UK?
What % of the market does the UK comprise?
Might they just say "OK, we won't bother doing any business in the UK. Bye!"
From wiki: directly employs around 73,000 people and in 2007 contributed £8.4 billion to the UK's GDP and invested a total of £3.9 billion in research and development.[1][2] In 2007 exports of pharmaceutical products from the UK totalled £14.6 billion, creating a trade surplus in pharmaceutical products of £4.3 billion.[3]
Ansa to your questions 1 and 3. Yes, over time. The damage will be to our international reputation. I don't think even a Mr Thicky government would be stupid enough to do it. I wonder what Nick Palmer ex-MP will think? He held a middle management position in pharma before he went into parliament.
The Labour Party appear to be floating a range of ideas which might benefit ordinary people at the expense of wealthy vested interests.
They really ought to stop that.
OK lets take it on face value.
If you want to help "ordinary people" (never quite sure why the unusual do not need government to work for them as well), then you need to be in power.
There is a deeply unpopular prime minister who has just been found to have broken the law on a major constitutional matter and a parliamentary "majority" of -40. It should be easy to replace him, all you need to do is carry the centre ground who are scared of the radical change offered by no deal Brexit.
You could do that by focusing on house building and education for example, leaving the other areas for the future. You do not do it by offering radical change of your own, that the centre cannot get behind.
He isn't a deeply unpopular PM according to polling. Hes slightly negatively viewed. That's something it's easy to forget in the maelstrom.
The Labour Party appear to be floating a range of ideas which might benefit ordinary people at the expense of wealthy vested interests.
They really ought to stop that.
OK lets take it on face value.
If you want to help "ordinary people" (never quite sure why the unusual do not need government to work for them as well), then you need to be in power.
There is a deeply unpopular prime minister who has just been found to have broken the law on a major constitutional matter and a parliamentary "majority" of -40. It should be easy to replace him, all you need to do is carry the centre ground who are scared of the radical change offered by no deal Brexit.
You could do that by focusing on house building and education for example, leaving the other areas for the future. You do not do it by offering radical change of your own, that the centre cannot get behind.
He isn't a deeply unpopular PM according to polling. Hes slightly negatively viewed. That's something it's easy to forget in the maelstrom.
Only PM to be in negative territory (whether "slightly negative" or not) this early in his premiership. Even Brown was still above water at this point.
Not going for a GE will backfire massively on the rebel alliance. They will be getting that doorstep feedback again. What's the selling point when they finally allow one? We prevented Brexit against the expressed will of the referendum and played political games to do it, now please throw us some fish from the bucket?! We delayed and now we want to rule so we can delay some more! Anger is going to boil over in the ballot box and a hell of a lot are going to be swept away by it.
I think anger can go in many directions. I am angry about what a bunch of far right loons have done to the Conservative Party, economic stability, the constitution and the Monarch. Yea, in a non-violent way I am very angry, and I want Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson to be totally humiliated in some way or other (ideally not via Mr Thicky Corbyn). It will be the biggest amount of schadenfreude I have ever allowed myself when he is ignominiously removed from power in absolute disgrace and goes down in history as the worst most incompetent idiot to ever have held high office
mr thicky is currently outplaying the oxford brains
Given Boris will resign as PM by October 31st rather than extend if a new Brexit Deal has not been agreed with the EU and approved by Parliament by then and given the LDs will vote down a Corbyn government as will Tory anti No Deal rebels only a PM acceptable to the LDs and Tory rebels will do. That probably means PM Ken Clarke or maybe PM Harman or PM Beckett by the end of October.
Boris will be Leader of the Opposition regardless with Corbyn forced to prop up a Clarke or Harman premiership until extension has been passed and Boris then pushes a VONC he will have to support
When's the referendum on the backstop in Northern Ireland?
Requires a Tory majority after the next general election free of the DUP
Free presciption, free unis, free social care, free training.
taxes up for top 5%, and corporations
Money forest is blooming
It always amazes me that the left/hard left don't realise that they can put tax rates up as much as they want for the top end but it doesn't always raise more tax.
Do you reckon any of them have ever even heard of Arthur Laffer?
He of the unquantified and unproven curve?
Yer 'avin' a laffer aren't you!?
At what point do you think punitive tax rates cause people to either do less work, restructure their earnings or move abroad?
40% 50%, 60%, 70%?
How’s about corporate tax rates? Where should the U.K. fit into the table?
UAE 0% Ireland 12.5% Singapore 17% Switzerland 18% USA 21% France 31%
The Labour Party appear to be floating a range of ideas which might benefit ordinary people at the expense of wealthy vested interests.
They really ought to stop that.
OK lets take it on face value.
If you want to help "ordinary people" (never quite sure why the unusual do not need government to work for them as well), then you need to be in power.
There is a deeply unpopular prime minister who has just been found to have broken the law on a major constitutional matter and a parliamentary "majority" of -40. It should be easy to replace him, all you need to do is carry the centre ground who are scared of the radical change offered by no deal Brexit.
You could do that by focusing on house building and education for example, leaving the other areas for the future. You do not do it by offering radical change of your own, that the centre cannot get behind.
He isn't a deeply unpopular PM according to polling. Hes slightly negatively viewed. That's something it's easy to forget in the maelstrom.
Only PM to be in negative territory (whether "slightly negative" or not) this early in his premiership. Even Brown was still above water at this point.
The Labour Party appear to be floating a range of ideas which might benefit ordinary people at the expense of wealthy vested interests.
They really ought to stop that.
Like scrapping private schools, 32 hour weeks and according to the Labour MP for Brighton Kemptown Labour should even enable the state to take over private housing
The Labour Party appear to be floating a range of ideas which might benefit ordinary people at the expense of wealthy vested interests.
They really ought to stop that.
Like scrapping private schools, 32 hour weeks and according to the Labour MP for Brighton Kemptown Labour should even enable the state to take over private housing
The Labour Party appear to be floating a range of ideas which might benefit ordinary people at the expense of wealthy vested interests.
They really ought to stop that.
Like scrapping private schools, 32 hour weeks and according to the Labour MP for Brighton Kemptown Labour should even enable the state to take over private housing
I can still see your ass! Not going to change your picture?
Given Boris will resign as PM by October 31st rather than extend if a new Brexit Deal has not been agreed with the EU and approved by Parliament by then and given the LDs will vote down a Corbyn government as will Tory anti No Deal rebels only a PM acceptable to the LDs and Tory rebels will do. That probably means PM Ken Clarke or maybe PM Harman or PM Beckett by the end of October.
Have you considered the optics of Boris coming back from the European Council summit empty handed and then resigning? He will look like a total loser.
No, Boris will say the EU has refused to scrap the backstop and rather than do a May and agree Munich Agreement 2 or extend again and betray Brexit he will lead the Tories into opposition on a Brexit Deal or No Deal platform and prepare the next stage of the war with the die hard Remainers
But there will be no "Deal or No Deal" platform at that point. It could only be No Deal, and he doesn't believe in it.
The Labour Party appear to be floating a range of ideas which might benefit ordinary people at the expense of wealthy vested interests.
They really ought to stop that.
OK lets take it on face value.
If you want to help "ordinary people" (never quite sure why the unusual do not need government to work for them as well), then you need to be in power.
There is a deeply unpopular prime minister who has just been found to have broken the law on a major constitutional matter and a parliamentary "majority" of -40. It should be easy to replace him, all you need to do is carry the centre ground who are scared of the radical change offered by no deal Brexit.
You could do that by focusing on house building and education for example, leaving the other areas for the future. You do not do it by offering radical change of your own, that the centre cannot get behind.
He isn't a deeply unpopular PM according to polling. Hes slightly negatively viewed. That's something it's easy to forget in the maelstrom.
Not going for a GE will backfire massively on the rebel alliance. They will be getting that doorstep feedback again. What's the selling point when they finally allow one? We prevented Brexit against the expressed will of the referendum and played political games to do it, now please throw us some fish from the bucket?! We delayed and now we want to rule so we can delay some more! Anger is going to boil over in the ballot box and a hell of a lot are going to be swept away by it.
I think anger can go in many directions. I am angry about what a bunch of far right loons have done to the Conservative Party, economic stability, the constitution and the Monarch. Yea, in a non-violent way I am very angry, and I want Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson to be totally humiliated in some way or other (ideally not via Mr Thicky Corbyn). It will be the biggest amount of schadenfreude I have ever allowed myself when he is ignominiously removed from power in absolute disgrace and goes down in history as the worst most incompetent idiot to ever have held high office
mr thicky is currently outplaying the oxford brains
So we'll he was third in a poll last week and had the lowest net approval rating for an opposition leader since the War
The Labour Party appear to be floating a range of ideas which might benefit ordinary people at the expense of wealthy vested interests.
They really ought to stop that.
OK lets take it on face value.
If you want to help "ordinary people" (never quite sure why the unusual do not need government to work for them as well), then you need to be in power.
There is a deeply unpopular prime minister who has just been found to have broken the law on a major constitutional matter and a parliamentary "majority" of -40. It should be easy to replace him, all you need to do is carry the centre ground who are scared of the radical change offered by no deal Brexit.
You could do that by focusing on house building and education for example, leaving the other areas for the future. You do not do it by offering radical change of your own, that the centre cannot get behind.
He isn't a deeply unpopular PM according to polling. Hes slightly negatively viewed. That's something it's easy to forget in the maelstrom.
He is popular with his base, but unpopular outside it.
The Labour Party appear to be floating a range of ideas which might benefit ordinary people at the expense of wealthy vested interests.
They really ought to stop that.
OK lets take it on face value.
If you want to help "ordinary people" (never quite sure why the unusual do not need government to work for them as well), then you need to be in power.
There is a deeply unpopular prime minister who has just been found to have broken the law on a major constitutional matter and a parliamentary "majority" of -40. It should be easy to replace him, all you need to do is carry the centre ground who are scared of the radical change offered by no deal Brexit.
You could do that by focusing on house building and education for example, leaving the other areas for the future. You do not do it by offering radical change of your own, that the centre cannot get behind.
He isn't a deeply unpopular PM according to polling. Hes slightly negatively viewed. That's something it's easy to forget in the maelstrom.
There is always a time lag to these things. The early adopter/late adopter principle applies to opinion as well as consumer purchasing.
Not going for a GE will backfire massively on the rebel alliance. They will be getting that doorstep feedback again. What's the selling point when they finally allow one? We prevented Brexit against the expressed will of the referendum and played political games to do it, now please throw us some fish from the bucket?! We delayed and now we want to rule so we can delay some more! Anger is going to boil over in the ballot box and a hell of a lot are going to be swept away by it.
I think anger can go in many directions. I am angry about what a bunch of far right loons have done to the Conservative Party, economic stability, the constitution and the Monarch. Yea, in a non-violent way I am very angry, and I want Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson to be totally humiliated in some way or other (ideally not via Mr Thicky Corbyn). It will be the biggest amount of schadenfreude I have ever allowed myself when he is ignominiously removed from power in absolute disgrace and goes down in history as the worst most incompetent idiot to ever have held high office
mr thicky is currently outplaying the oxford brains
So we'll he was third in a poll last week and had the lowest net approval rating for an opposition leader since the War
do we have an election scheduled ? Because otherwise Jezza is calling the shots
Given Boris will resign as PM by October 31st rather than extend if a new Brexit Deal has not been agreed with the EU and approved by Parliament by then and given the LDs will vote down a Corbyn government as will Tory anti No Deal rebels only a PM acceptable to the LDs and Tory rebels will do. That probably means PM Ken Clarke or maybe PM Harman or PM Beckett by the end of October.
Have you considered the optics of Boris coming back from the European Council summit empty handed and then resigning? He will look like a total loser.
No, Boris will say the EU has refused to scrap the backstop and rather than do a May and agree Munich Agreement 2 or extend again and betray Brexit he will lead the Tories into opposition on a Brexit Deal or No Deal platform and prepare the next stage of the war with the die hard Remainers
But there will be no "Deal or No Deal" platform at that point. It could only be No Deal, and he doesn't believe in it.
No he would say it needs No Deal as a threat to get the EU to remove the backstop
Could big drug companies just withdraw from the UK?
What % of the market does the UK comprise?
Might they just say "OK, we won't bother doing any business in the UK. Bye!"
By their nature genetics are off-patent, so the government producing them is not a huge issue for pharma. A much bigger problem would be a revision of the UK’s patent laws. That would drive life sciences companies away.
Not going for a GE will backfire massively on the rebel alliance. They will be getting that doorstep feedback again. What's the selling point when they finally allow one? We prevented Brexit against the expressed will of the referendum and played political games to do it, now please throw us some fish from the bucket?! We delayed and now we want to rule so we can delay some more! Anger is going to boil over in the ballot box and a hell of a lot are going to be swept away by it.
I think anger can go in many directions. I am angry about what a bunch of far right loons have done to the Conservative Party, economic stability, the constitution and the Monarch. Yea, in a non-violent way I am very angry, and I want Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson to be totally humiliated in some way or other (ideally not via Mr Thicky Corbyn). It will be the biggest amount of schadenfreude I have ever allowed myself when he is ignominiously removed from power in absolute disgrace and goes down in history as the worst most incompetent idiot to ever have held high office
mr thicky is currently outplaying the oxford brains
So we'll he was third in a poll last week and had the lowest net approval rating for an opposition leader since the War
do we have an election scheduled ? Because otherwise Jezza is calling the shots
He isn't he is enabling the LDs and Tories to take his vote, Labour is polling lower than any GE since 1945 in almost every poll while the LDs would veto his premiership
The Labour Party appear to be floating a range of ideas which might benefit ordinary people at the expense of wealthy vested interests.
They really ought to stop that.
OK lets take it on face value.
If you want to help "ordinary people" (never quite sure why the unusual do not need government to work for them as well), then you need to be in power.
There is a deeply unpopular prime minister who has just been found to have broken the law on a major constitutional matter and a parliamentary "majority" of -40. It should be easy to replace him, all you need to do is carry the centre ground who are scared of the radical change offered by no deal Brexit.
You could do that by focusing on house building and education for example, leaving the other areas for the future. You do not do it by offering radical change of your own, that the centre cannot get behind.
He isn't a deeply unpopular PM according to polling. Hes slightly negatively viewed. That's something it's easy to forget in the maelstrom.
There is always a time lag to these things. The early adopter/late adopter principle applies to opinion as well as consumer purchasing.
Sure yes, but right now his personal ratings are not 'deeply unpopular' they indicate he may well become so in time, maybe short order but thems the breaks
Remarkable number of leavers on here complaining about the judgment as though it was an attack on their ideology. The case was never about Brexit, and that was made clear a number of times. The suspension of parliament was never necessary for leaving the EU, and we're still due to leave. I don't know why you are so eager to hitch their wagon to an unlawful action. Seems counterproductive. Leave can be done perfectly legally. Stop damaging your own case by pretending it can only be done by trampling parliament.
Given Boris will resign as PM by October 31st rather than extend if a new Brexit Deal has not been agreed with the EU and approved by Parliament by then and given the LDs will vote down a Corbyn government as will Tory anti No Deal rebels only a PM acceptable to the LDs and Tory rebels will do. That probably means PM Ken Clarke or maybe PM Harman or PM Beckett by the end of October.
Have you considered the optics of Boris coming back from the European Council summit empty handed and then resigning? He will look like a total loser.
No, Boris will say the EU has refused to scrap the backstop and rather than do a May and agree Munich Agreement 2 or extend again and betray Brexit he will lead the Tories into opposition on a Brexit Deal or No Deal platform and prepare the next stage of the war with the die hard Remainers
But there will be no "Deal or No Deal" platform at that point. It could only be No Deal, and he doesn't believe in it.
No he would say it needs No Deal as a threat to get the EU to remove the backstop
Which immediately makes it clear that it's a bluff. The EU will not remove the backstop no matter how much Boris Johnson huffs and puffs.
Could big drug companies just withdraw from the UK?
What % of the market does the UK comprise?
Might they just say "OK, we won't bother doing any business in the UK. Bye!"
It wouldn't be overnight - there is a very large amount of infrastructure here. But it would move fairly rapidly in that direction.
The border checks in Ireland to protect the EU pharmaceutical industry would be... interesting.
Quite how this fits with 'closely aligned to the single market' is a two pipe problem - opium pipe, that is.
Corbyn’s Speech makes it quite clear that he’s massively in favour of no deal Brexit, and I’m not sure all those fawning over him in the hall have worked that out yet.
Most of what he’s proposing is completely against EU law and single market regulations.
Not going for a GE will backfire massively on the rebel alliance. They will be getting that doorstep feedback again. What's the selling point when they finally allow one? We prevented Brexit against the expressed will of the referendum and played political games to do it, now please throw us some fish from the bucket?! We delayed and now we want to rule so we can delay some more! Anger is going to boil over in the ballot box and a hell of a lot are going to be swept away by it.
I think anger can go in many directions. I am angry about what a bunch of far right loons have done to the Conservative Party, economic stability, the constitution and the Monarch. Yea, in a non-violent way I am very angry, and I want Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson to be totally humiliated in some way or other (ideally not via Mr Thicky Corbyn). It will be the biggest amount of schadenfreude I have ever allowed myself when he is ignominiously removed from power in absolute disgrace and goes down in history as the worst most incompetent idiot to ever have held high office
mr thicky is currently outplaying the oxford brains
So we'll he was third in a poll last week and had the lowest net approval rating for an opposition leader since the War
do we have an election scheduled ? Because otherwise Jezza is calling the shots
He isn't he is enabling the LDs and Tories to take his vote, Labour is polling lower than any GE since 1945 in almost every poll while the LDs would veto his premiership
Brexit then a Corbyn majority government. Is that how one of the world's oldest democracies dies? Can we pull out of the descent into madness?
Yes, of course we can. And it has to start with the Conservative Party.
However blood-curdling Corbyn's speech might sound, he's merely a lefty ranter who'd like to run the country - and hasn't got a prayer. The Fat Spiv, on the other hand, is in power, commanding a government, an army and a nuclear attack force. Yet, in spite of being taught politics (which makes up most of the Oxford Greats course) at Balliol (which has spent the past century training centrist democratic politicians) he thinks he's got the right to tell us he "strongly disagrees" with a unanimous decision of our Supreme Court and leads a party 56% of whose voters agree with him.
So when is a serious Conservative going to get the balls to tell fellow Tories it's got to stop? Who's going to stand up at Manchester next week and remind them that, under the Spiv, they've turned themselves into the British branch of the Steve Bannion party? Who's going to remind them that the Single Market they hate so much was invented, and nursed through opposition from European lefties, by Margaret Thatcher - whom they affect to idolise?
A few defections to the LDs are very welcome. But Amber Rudd's admitted today that Johnson gave "personal assurances" he'd share the legal guidance for prorogation with the rest of the Cabinet - and didn't. No other Cabinet member seems to worry about this - and Rudd's still a member of the Johnson party.
All it takes is a few senior Tories to develop a conscience.
Free presciption, free unis, free social care, free training.
taxes up for top 5%, and corporations
Money forest is blooming
It always amazes me that the left/hard left don't realise that they can put tax rates up as much as they want for the top end but it doesn't always raise more tax.
Do you reckon any of them have ever even heard of Arthur Laffer?
He of the unquantified and unproven curve?
Yer 'avin' a laffer aren't you!?
Putting aside Corbyn for a minute, Laffer peak is always quoted as being to the graphical left, aka political right, of whatever tax proposal is being made. The Laffer curve does have a peak, doesn't it?
One would think in the UK, with all its other benefits to the wealthy - public schools, universities, rule of law, moderate climate (I'm still putting Corbyn to one side btw), that we would not have to underprice the Laffer can of beans that aggressively. The rich have roots too, you know.
Free presciption, free unis, free social care, free training.
taxes up for top 5%, and corporations
Money forest is blooming
It always amazes me that the left/hard left don't realise that they can put tax rates up as much as they want for the top end but it doesn't always raise more tax.
Do you reckon any of them have ever even heard of Arthur Laffer?
He of the unquantified and unproven curve?
Yer 'avin' a laffer aren't you!?
At what point do you think punitive tax rates cause people to either do less work, restructure their earnings or move abroad?
40% 50%, 60%, 70%?
How’s about corporate tax rates? Where should the U.K. fit into the table?
UAE 0% Ireland 12.5% Singapore 17% Switzerland 18% USA 21% France 31%
We have experience in the 70's under labour where the 83% rate had a significant impact on the amount of tax raised. during the 80s and up until GB raised it the 40% tax rate did bring in more overall tax. There is limited evidence that the change from 50% to 45% did make a difference.
Given Boris will resign as PM by October 31st rather than extend if a new Brexit Deal has not been agreed with the EU and approved by Parliament by then and given the LDs will vote down a Corbyn government as will Tory anti No Deal rebels only a PM acceptable to the LDs and Tory rebels will do. That probably means PM Ken Clarke or maybe PM Harman or PM Beckett by the end of October.
Boris will be Leader of the Opposition regardless with Corbyn forced to prop up a Clarke or Harman premiership until extension has been passed and Boris then pushes a VONC he will have to support
When's the referendum on the backstop in Northern Ireland?
Requires a Tory majority after the next general election free of the DUP
At which point you will switch to the LDs.
Plus if Boris leads the Tories into opposition he will be deposed as he will appeal neither to the brexiter loons on the one hand or the trying to keep it together proper Conservatives on the other.
Free presciption, free unis, free social care, free training.
taxes up for top 5%, and corporations
Money forest is blooming
It always amazes me that the left/hard left don't realise that they can put tax rates up as much as they want for the top end but it doesn't always raise more tax.
Do you reckon any of them have ever even heard of Arthur Laffer?
He of the unquantified and unproven curve?
Yer 'avin' a laffer aren't you!?
At what point do you think punitive tax rates cause people to either do less work, restructure their earnings or move abroad?
40% 50%, 60%, 70%?
How’s about corporate tax rates? Where should the U.K. fit into the table?
UAE 0% Ireland 12.5% Singapore 17% Switzerland 18% USA 21% France 31%
We have experience in the 70's under labour where the 83% rate had a significant impact on the amount of tax raised. during the 80s and up until GB raised it the 40% tax rate did bring in more overall tax. There is limited evidence that the change from 50% to 45% did make a difference.
Given Boris will resign as PM by October 31st rather than extend if a new Brexit Deal has not been agreed with the EU and approved by Parliament by then and given the LDs will vote down a Corbyn government as will Tory anti No Deal rebels only a PM acceptable to the LDs and Tory rebels will do. That probably means PM Ken Clarke or maybe PM Harman or PM Beckett by the end of October.
Have you considered the optics of Boris coming back from the European Council summit empty handed and then resigning? He will look like a total loser.
No, Boris will say the EU has refused to scrap the backstop and rather than do a May and agree Munich Agreement 2 or extend again and betray Brexit he will lead the Tories into opposition on a Brexit Deal or No Deal platform and prepare the next stage of the war with the die hard Remainers
But there will be no "Deal or No Deal" platform at that point. It could only be No Deal, and he doesn't believe in it.
No he would say it needs No Deal as a threat to get the EU to remove the backstop
How can no-deal be a threat, when Bozo et al tell us we have nothing to fear from it? He cannot have it both ways. If it is a threat to the EU to bring them to the table then he has significantly lied to the public, because if it is a worry to the EU it must be significantly more so to us. Surely a PM wouldn't lie would they? Certainly not this particular paragon of virtue
Could big drug companies just withdraw from the UK?
What % of the market does the UK comprise?
Might they just say "OK, we won't bother doing any business in the UK. Bye!"
It wouldn't be overnight - there is a very large amount of infrastructure here. But it would move fairly rapidly in that direction.
The border checks in Ireland to protect the EU pharmaceutical industry would be... interesting.
Quite how this fits with 'closely aligned to the single market' is a two pipe problem - opium pipe, that is.
Corbyn’s Speech makes it quite clear that he’s massively in favour of no deal Brexit, and I’m not sure all those fawning over him in the hall have worked that out yet.
Most of what he’s proposing is completely against EU law and single market regulations.
Free presciption, free unis, free social care, free training.
taxes up for top 5%, and corporations
Money forest is blooming
It always amazes me that the left/hard left don't realise that they can put tax rates up as much as they want for the top end but it doesn't always raise more tax.
Do you reckon any of them have ever even heard of Arthur Laffer?
He of the unquantified and unproven curve?
Yer 'avin' a laffer aren't you!?
At what point do you think punitive tax rates cause people to either do less work, restructure their earnings or move abroad?
40% 50%, 60%, 70%?
How’s about corporate tax rates? Where should the U.K. fit into the table?
UAE 0% Ireland 12.5% Singapore 17% Switzerland 18% USA 21% France 31%
We have experience in the 70's under labour where the 83% rate had a significant impact on the amount of tax raised. during the 80s and up until GB raised it the 40% tax rate did bring in more overall tax. There is limited evidence that the change from 50% to 45% did make a difference.
We were a lot less globalised in the 70s and 80s.
it didn't stop high profile (and not so high profile) people moving abroad to get away from the tax rates
Given Boris will resign as PM by October 31st rather than extend if a new Brexit Deal has not been agreed with the EU and approved by Parliament by then and given the LDs will vote down a Corbyn government as will Tory anti No Deal rebels only a PM acceptable to the LDs and Tory rebels will do. That probably means PM Ken Clarke or maybe PM Harman or PM Beckett by the end of October.
Boris will be Leader of the Opposition regardless with Corbyn forced to prop up a Clarke or Harman premiership until extension has been passed and Boris then pushes a VONC he will have to support
When's the referendum on the backstop in Northern Ireland?
Requires a Tory majority after the next general election free of the DUP
At which point you will switch to the LDs.
Plus if Boris leads the Tories into opposition he will be deposed as he will appeal neither to the brexiter loons on the one hand or the trying to keep it together proper Conservatives on the other.
As I said you will long have departed to the LDs.
I respect democracy and Boris would have leavers largely united behind him in opposition against the government of diehard Remainer traitors to democracy
Free presciption, free unis, free social care, free training.
taxes up for top 5%, and corporations
Money forest is blooming
It always amazes me that the left/hard left don't realise that they can put tax rates up as much as they want for the top end but it doesn't always raise more tax.
Do you reckon any of them have ever even heard of Arthur Laffer?
He of the unquantified and unproven curve?
Yer 'avin' a laffer aren't you!?
At what point do you think punitive tax rates cause people to either do less work, restructure their earnings or move abroad?
40% 50%, 60%, 70%?
How’s about corporate tax rates? Where should the U.K. fit into the table?
UAE 0% Ireland 12.5% Singapore 17% Switzerland 18% USA 21% France 31%
We have experience in the 70's under labour where the 83% rate had a significant impact on the amount of tax raised. during the 80s and up until GB raised it the 40% tax rate did bring in more overall tax. There is limited evidence that the change from 50% to 45% did make a difference.
Indeed. There’s good evidence that the personal allowance withdrawal at £100k salary, a 63% rate, is leading to many professionals working less to stay under £100k (or topping up pensions allowances instead).
I think 40-45% is about the top of the curve, certainly 50% is a symbolic point at which people start phoning their accountants.
Given Boris will resign as PM by October 31st rather than extend if a new Brexit Deal has not been agreed with the EU and approved by Parliament by then and given the LDs will vote down a Corbyn government as will Tory anti No Deal rebels only a PM acceptable to the LDs and Tory rebels will do. That probably means PM Ken Clarke or maybe PM Harman or PM Beckett by the end of October.
Have you considered the optics of Boris coming back from the European Council summit empty handed and then resigning? He will look like a total loser.
No, Boris will say the EU has refused to scrap the backstop and rather than do a May and agree Munich Agreement 2 or extend again and betray Brexit he will lead the Tories into opposition on a Brexit Deal or No Deal platform and prepare the next stage of the war with the die hard Remainers
But there will be no "Deal or No Deal" platform at that point. It could only be No Deal, and he doesn't believe in it.
No he would say it needs No Deal as a threat to get the EU to remove the backstop
Which immediately makes it clear that it's a bluff. The EU will not remove the backstop no matter how much Boris Johnson huffs and puffs.
As Leader of the Opposition what would Boris care, the Brexit Deal or No Deal commitment is all he needs to keep Leavers largely united behind him against the new Government of diehard Remainer traitors to democracy
Given Boris will resign as PM by October 31st rather than extend if a new Brexit Deal has not been agreed with the EU and approved by Parliament by then and given the LDs will vote down a Corbyn government as will Tory anti No Deal rebels only a PM acceptable to the LDs and Tory rebels will do. That probably means PM Ken Clarke or maybe PM Harman or PM Beckett by the end of October.
Boris will be Leader of the Opposition regardless with Corbyn forced to prop up a Clarke or Harman premiership until extension has been passed and Boris then pushes a VONC he will have to support
When's the referendum on the backstop in Northern Ireland?
Requires a Tory majority after the next general election free of the DUP
At which point you will switch to the LDs.
Plus if Boris leads the Tories into opposition he will be deposed as he will appeal neither to the brexiter loons on the one hand or the trying to keep it together proper Conservatives on the other.
As I said you will long have departed to the LDs.
I respect democracy and Boris would have leavers largely united behind him in opposition against the government of diehard Remainer traitors to democracy
You want to remain in the EU. The LDs are the only party for you.
Not sure if that makes you a die hard remainer or a diehard remainer. It's definitely one of the two.
Given Boris will resign as PM by October 31st rather than extend if a new Brexit Deal has not been agreed with the EU and approved by Parliament by then and given the LDs will vote down a Corbyn government as will Tory anti No Deal rebels only a PM acceptable to the LDs and Tory rebels will do. That probably means PM Ken Clarke or maybe PM Harman or PM Beckett by the end of October.
Have you considered the optics of Boris coming back from the European Council summit empty handed and then resigning? He will look like a total loser.
No, Boris will say the EU has refused to scrap the backstop and rather than do a May and agree Munich Agreement 2 or extend again and betray Brexit he will lead the Tories into opposition on a Brexit Deal or No Deal platform and prepare the next stage of the war with the die hard Remainers
But there will be no "Deal or No Deal" platform at that point. It could only be No Deal, and he doesn't believe in it.
No he would say it needs No Deal as a threat to get the EU to remove the backstop
Which immediately makes it clear that it's a bluff. The EU will not remove the backstop no matter how much Boris Johnson huffs and puffs.
As Leader of the Opposition what would Boris care, the Brexit Deal or No Deal commitment is all he needs to keep Leavers largely united behind him against the new Government of diehard Remainer traitors to democracy
So it’s just the politics of opposition, like the hard left in the 1980s?
Quite right HY but it will do a 2017 on acid once Jezza fires the starting gun for GE2019.
Anyway Why should Jester resign? He’s only broken the law, lied to the Queen, tried to stifle democracy, lied to Parliament, lost his majority, lost every Parliamentary vote he’s ever faced used Public funds for a BJ BJ
Could big drug companies just withdraw from the UK?
What % of the market does the UK comprise?
Might they just say "OK, we won't bother doing any business in the UK. Bye!"
It wouldn't be overnight - there is a very large amount of infrastructure here. But it would move fairly rapidly in that direction.
The border checks in Ireland to protect the EU pharmaceutical industry would be... interesting.
Quite how this fits with 'closely aligned to the single market' is a two pipe problem - opium pipe, that is.
Corbyn’s Speech makes it quite clear that he’s massively in favour of no deal Brexit, and I’m not sure all those fawning over him in the hall have worked that out yet.
Most of what he’s proposing is completely against EU law and single market regulations.
The stuff on IP is straight out of Venezuela.
Tory Brexiteers are his useful idiots.
Corbyn and his kitchen cabinet of dangerous fools clearly want to destroy this country's economy and public services in a single term.
Not pointless at all. Televised impeachment hearings will bring evidence of wrongdoing to a very wide audience. Could -- COULD -- really harm the GOP in the coming elections. You're almost certainly right to say he won't be convicted by the Senate, of course.
Given Boris will resign as PM by October 31st rather than extend if a new Brexit Deal has not been agreed with the EU and approved by Parliament by then and given the LDs will vote down a Corbyn government as will Tory anti No Deal rebels only a PM acceptable to the LDs and Tory rebels will do. That probably means PM Ken Clarke or maybe PM Harman or PM Beckett by the end of October.
Boris will be Leader of the Opposition regardless with Corbyn forced to prop up a Clarke or Harman premiership until extension has been passed and Boris then pushes a VONC he will have to support
When's the referendum on the backstop in Northern Ireland?
Requires a Tory majority after the next general election free of the DUP
At which point you will switch to the LDs.
Plus if Boris leads the Tories into opposition he will be deposed as he will appeal neither to the brexiter loons on the one hand or the trying to keep it together proper Conservatives on the other.
As I said you will long have departed to the LDs.
I respect democracy and Boris would have leavers largely united behind him in opposition against the government of diehard Remainer traitors to democracy
You really are an offensive little pillock. There are many people who support/supported remain who have served their country in the armed forces, and they don't need to be accused of being traitors by a pathetic little pipsqueak like you. Boris Johnson is the biggest threat to democracy and the rule of law that I can recall in my 40 odd years of following British politics. The other big threat is the ignorant blind unquestioning loyalty of fools like you. You are the type of person that despots rely on. Your posts are utterly ridiculous and your views are completely beneath contempt.
Yes, sorry, I usually avoid the term 'ordinary people'. It's silly.
What I meant by it in that post was people not particularly well off.
Like checkout staff at Tesco. Just as an example.
Checkout staff at Tesco are going to be machines in 10 years time! Half of them are already.
Anyway they are not helped by Labour losing elections even when up against a failed, lying, vote losing, cowardly, lazy PM.
They would be helped by Labour winning elections, or at least putting enough pressure on the Tories to avoid them being taken over by a revolutionary cult as well.
Given Boris will resign as PM by October 31st rather than extend if a new Brexit Deal has not been agreed with the EU and approved by Parliament by then and given the LDs will vote down a Corbyn government as will Tory anti No Deal rebels only a PM acceptable to the LDs and Tory rebels will do. That probably means PM Ken Clarke or maybe PM Harman or PM Beckett by the end of October.
Boris will be Leader of the Opposition regardless with Corbyn forced to prop up a Clarke or Harman premiership until extension has been passed and Boris then pushes a VONC he will have to support
When's the referendum on the backstop in Northern Ireland?
Requires a Tory majority after the next general election free of the DUP
At which point you will switch to the LDs.
Plus if Boris leads the Tories into opposition he will be deposed as he will appeal neither to the brexiter loons on the one hand or the trying to keep it together proper Conservatives on the other.
As I said you will long have departed to the LDs.
I respect democracy and Boris would have leavers largely united behind him in opposition against the government of diehard Remainer traitors to democracy
You really are an offensive little pillock. There are many people who support/supported remain who have served their country in the armed forces, and they don't need to be accused of being traitors by a pathetic little pipsqueak like you. Boris Johnson is the biggest threat to democracy and the rule of law that I can recall in my 40 odd years of following British politics. The other big threat is the ignorant blind unquestioning loyalty of fools like you. You are the type of person that despots rely on. Your posts are utterly ridiculous and your views are completely beneath contempt.
Has much been said on Banks's clearance by the NCA on here? I know the Supreme Court is taking the constitutional gold medal for importance today, but I think we do now have a completed view of the validity of the referendum itself, unless anyone can tell me otherwise?
It tends towards a second referendum and the inclusion of any Remain option being a more political decision, rather than a quasi-judicial one by MPs on the irregularities of the first referendum, which are now a lot less than they could have been.
Brexit then a Corbyn majority government. Is that how one of the world's oldest democracies dies? Can we pull out of the descent into madness?
Yes, of course we can. And it has to start with the Conservative Party.
However blood-curdling Corbyn's speech might sound, he's merely a lefty ranter who'd like to run the country - and hasn't got a prayer. The Fat Spiv, on the other hand, is in power, commanding a government, an army and a nuclear attack force. Yet, in spite of being taught politics (which makes up most of the Oxford Greats course) at Balliol (which has spent the past century training centrist democratic politicians) he thinks he's got the right to tell us he "strongly disagrees" with a unanimous decision of our Supreme Court and leads a party 56% of whose voters agree with him.
So when is a serious Conservative going to get the balls to tell fellow Tories it's got to stop? Who's going to stand up at Manchester next week and remind them that, under the Spiv, they've turned themselves into the British branch of the Steve Bannion party? Who's going to remind them that the Single Market they hate so much was invented, and nursed through opposition from European lefties, by Margaret Thatcher - whom they affect to idolise?
A few defections to the LDs are very welcome. But Amber Rudd's admitted today that Johnson gave "personal assurances" he'd share the legal guidance for prorogation with the rest of the Cabinet - and didn't. No other Cabinet member seems to worry about this - and Rudd's still a member of the Johnson party.
All it takes is a few senior Tories to develop a conscience.
Politics makes up most of the Oxford Greats course, in the same way as Volvo cars are mostly made of cheddar cheese.
Given Boris will resign as PM by October 31st rather than extend if a new Brexit Deal has not been agreed with the EU and approved by Parliament by then and given the LDs will vote down a Corbyn government as will Tory anti No Deal rebels only a PM acceptable to the LDs and Tory rebels will do. That probably means PM Ken Clarke or maybe PM Harman or PM Beckett by the end of October.
Boris will be Leader of the Opposition regardless with Corbyn forced to prop up a Clarke or Harman premiership until extension has been passed and Boris then pushes a VONC he will have to support
When's the referendum on the backstop in Northern Ireland?
Requires a Tory majority after the next general election free of the DUP
At which point you will switch to the LDs.
Plus if Boris leads the Tories into opposition he will be deposed as he will appeal neither to the brexiter loons on the one hand or the trying to keep it together proper Conservatives on the other.
As I said you will long have departed to the LDs.
I respect democracy and Boris would have leavers largely united behind him in opposition against the government of diehard Remainer traitors to democracy
You really are an offensive little pillock. There are many people who support/supported remain who have served their country in the armed forces, and they don't need to be accused of being traitors by a pathetic little pipsqueak like you. Boris Johnson is the biggest threat to democracy and the rule of law that I can recall in my 40 odd years of following British politics. The other big threat is the ignorant blind unquestioning loyalty of fools like you. You are the type of person that despots rely on. Your posts are utterly ridiculous and your views are completely beneath contempt.
Free presciption, free unis, free social care, free training.
taxes up for top 5%, and corporations
Money forest is blooming
It always amazes me that the left/hard left don't realise that they can put tax rates up as much as they want for the top end but it doesn't always raise more tax.
Do you reckon any of them have ever even heard of Arthur Laffer?
He of the unquantified and unproven curve?
Yer 'avin' a laffer aren't you!?
At what point do you think punitive tax rates cause people to either do less work, restructure their earnings or move abroad?
40% 50%, 60%, 70%?
How’s about corporate tax rates? Where should the U.K. fit into the table?
UAE 0% Ireland 12.5% Singapore 17% Switzerland 18% USA 21% France 31%
We have experience in the 70's under labour where the 83% rate had a significant impact on the amount of tax raised. during the 80s and up until GB raised it the 40% tax rate did bring in more overall tax. There is limited evidence that the change from 50% to 45% did make a difference.
Indeed. There’s good evidence that the personal allowance withdrawal at £100k salary, a 63% rate, is leading to many professionals working less to stay under £100k (or topping up pensions allowances instead).
I think 40-45% is about the top of the curve, certainly 50% is a symbolic point at which people start phoning their accountants.
It wouldn't surprise me if they said that they'd abolish the upper limit on national insurance and make all pay on anything over the lower limit taxable to the rate which applies. (ie a 10% rise in NI over a certain amount)
Free presciption, free unis, free social care, free training.
taxes up for top 5%, and corporations
Money forest is blooming
It always amazes me that the left/hard left don't realise that they can put tax rates up as much as they want for the top end but it doesn't always raise more tax.
Do you reckon any of them have ever even heard of Arthur Laffer?
He of the unquantified and unproven curve?
Yer 'avin' a laffer aren't you!?
At what point do you think punitive tax rates cause people to either do less work, restructure their earnings or move abroad?
40% 50%, 60%, 70%?
How’s about corporate tax rates? Where should the U.K. fit into the table?
UAE 0% Ireland 12.5% Singapore 17% Switzerland 18% USA 21% France 31%
We have experience in the 70's under labour where the 83% rate had a significant impact on the amount of tax raised. during the 80s and up until GB raised it the 40% tax rate did bring in more overall tax. There is limited evidence that the change from 50% to 45% did make a difference.
Indeed. There’s good evidence that the personal allowance withdrawal at £100k salary, a 63% rate, is leading to many professionals working less to stay under £100k (or topping up pensions allowances instead).
I think 40-45% is about the top of the curve, certainly 50% is a symbolic point at which people start phoning their accountants.
I am at an income tax threshold and it was material in my decision not to pursue a post a recruitment consultant rang me about this week.
Mind you, I also buy tortillas instead of crisps for the VAT benefit, so I'm unusual.
Given Boris will resign as PM by October 31st rather than extend if a new Brexit Deal has not been agreed with the EU and approved by Parliament by then and given the LDs will vote down a Corbyn government as will Tory anti No Deal rebels only a PM acceptable to the LDs and Tory rebels will do. That probably means PM Ken Clarke or maybe PM Harman or PM Beckett by the end of October.
Boris will be Leader of the Opposition regardless with Corbyn forced to prop up a Clarke or Harman premiership until extension has been passed and Boris then pushes a VONC he will have to support
When's the referendum on the backstop in Northern Ireland?
Requires a Tory majority after the next general election free of the DUP
At which point you will switch to the LDs.
Plus if Boris leads the Tories into opposition he will be deposed as he will appeal neither to the brexiter loons on the one hand or the trying to keep it together proper Conservatives on the other.
As I said you will long have departed to the LDs.
I respect democracy and Boris would have leavers largely united behind him in opposition against the government of diehard Remainer traitors to democracy
You really are an offensive little pillock. There are many people who support/supported remain who have served their country in the armed forces, and they don't need to be accused of being traitors by a pathetic little pipsqueak like you. Boris Johnson is the biggest threat to democracy and the rule of law that I can recall in my 40 odd years of following British politics. The other big threat is the ignorant blind unquestioning loyalty of fools like you. You are the type of person that despots rely on. Your posts are utterly ridiculous and your views are completely beneath contempt.
Comments
Nor am I clear how any resulting drugs shortage benefits those left behind.
But as you say we voted leave to turn things on their head and this looks like doing that.
Yer 'avin' a laffer aren't you!?
Or is it anyone who isn't 'rich' (which usually just means someone who is slightly more wealthy than you, and might include Corbyn himself), or the 'establishment' (which as we've seen, seems too include everyone aside from Mrs Miggin's blind bridge partner's hamster) ?
As a contributor to PB, are you, in fact, ordinary?
What % of the market does the UK comprise?
Might they just say "OK, we won't bother doing any business in the UK. Bye!"
If you want to help "ordinary people" (never quite sure why the unusual do not need government to work for them as well), then you need to be in power.
There is a deeply unpopular prime minister who has just been found to have broken the law on a major constitutional matter and a parliamentary "majority" of -40. It should be easy to replace him, all you need to do is carry the centre ground who are scared of the radical change offered by no deal Brexit.
You could do that by focusing on house building and education for example, leaving the other areas for the future. You do not do it by offering radical change of your own, that the centre cannot get behind.
Though 'smash it to smithereens and damn the consequences' might be more accurate.
So this means post Brexit we go economically hard LEFT or we go hard RIGHT.
LEFT - big tax & spend, big interventionist state, redistribution.
RIGHT - low reg, low tax, small state, market rules the roost.
I don't think this point (of mine) is sufficiently appreciated.
Give it some appreciation please!
Ansa to your questions 1 and 3. Yes, over time. The damage will be to our international reputation. I don't think even a Mr Thicky government would be stupid enough to do it. I wonder what Nick Palmer ex-MP will think? He held a middle management position in pharma before he went into parliament.
40% 50%, 60%, 70%?
How’s about corporate tax rates? Where should the U.K. fit into the table?
UAE 0%
Ireland 12.5%
Singapore 17%
Switzerland 18%
USA 21%
France 31%
https://twitter.com/benatipsosmori/status/1176494487662727168
But it would move fairly rapidly in that direction.
The border checks in Ireland to protect the EU pharmaceutical industry would be... interesting.
Quite how this fits with 'closely aligned to the single market' is a two pipe problem - opium pipe, that is.
The suspension of parliament was never necessary for leaving the EU, and we're still due to leave. I don't know why you are so eager to hitch their wagon to an unlawful action. Seems counterproductive. Leave can be done perfectly legally. Stop damaging your own case by pretending it can only be done by trampling parliament.
Most of what he’s proposing is completely against EU law and single market regulations.
The stuff on IP is straight out of Venezuela.
However blood-curdling Corbyn's speech might sound, he's merely a lefty ranter who'd like to run the country - and hasn't got a prayer. The Fat Spiv, on the other hand, is in power, commanding a government, an army and a nuclear attack force. Yet, in spite of being taught politics (which makes up most of the Oxford Greats course) at Balliol (which has spent the past century training centrist democratic politicians) he thinks he's got the right to tell us he "strongly disagrees" with a unanimous decision of our Supreme Court and leads a party 56% of whose voters agree with him.
So when is a serious Conservative going to get the balls to tell fellow Tories it's got to stop? Who's going to stand up at Manchester next week and remind them that, under the Spiv, they've turned themselves into the British branch of the Steve Bannion party? Who's going to remind them that the Single Market they hate so much was invented, and nursed through opposition from European lefties, by Margaret Thatcher - whom they affect to idolise?
A few defections to the LDs are very welcome. But Amber Rudd's admitted today that Johnson gave "personal assurances" he'd share the legal guidance for prorogation with the rest of the Cabinet - and didn't. No other Cabinet member seems to worry about this - and Rudd's still a member of the Johnson party.
All it takes is a few senior Tories to develop a conscience.
One would think in the UK, with all its other benefits to the wealthy - public schools, universities, rule of law, moderate climate (I'm still putting Corbyn to one side btw), that we would not have to underprice the Laffer can of beans that aggressively. The rich have roots too, you know.
Plus if Boris leads the Tories into opposition he will be deposed as he will appeal neither to the brexiter loons on the one hand or the trying to keep it together proper Conservatives on the other.
As I said you will long have departed to the LDs.
I think 40-45% is about the top of the curve, certainly 50% is a symbolic point at which people start phoning their accountants.
Not sure if that makes you a die hard remainer or a diehard remainer. It's definitely one of the two.
Lol. We are in an alternative reality on a wrinkled timeline in the continuum.
Yes, sorry, I usually avoid the term 'ordinary people'. It's silly.
What I meant by it in that post was people not particularly well off.
Like checkout staff at Tesco. Just as an example.
Anyway Why should Jester resign? He’s only broken the law, lied to the Queen, tried to stifle democracy, lied to Parliament, lost his majority, lost every Parliamentary vote he’s ever faced used Public funds for a BJ BJ
No reason at all
Now genuinely terrifying.
You're almost certainly right to say he won't be convicted by the Senate, of course.
Anyway they are not helped by Labour losing elections even when up against a failed, lying, vote losing, cowardly, lazy PM.
They would be helped by Labour winning elections, or at least putting enough pressure on the Tories to avoid them being taken over by a revolutionary cult as well.
It tends towards a second referendum and the inclusion of any Remain option being a more political decision, rather than a quasi-judicial one by MPs on the irregularities of the first referendum, which are now a lot less than they could have been.
See is the only centralist Labour MP who Corbyn could back for she is the reason why he is where he is.
Mind you, I also buy tortillas instead of crisps for the VAT benefit, so I'm unusual.
Probably best to laugh at someone like that.