Yep, for a while now people have been pushing a mostly unwritten and informal constitutional system to breaking point, using and abusing it for their own ends and pushing it to the limits. From the last 20 years (a definitely non-exhaustive list)
Blair’s Lords’ reforms Asymmetric devolution to Scotland and Wales. Brown’s reneging on the Lisbon referendum promise Clegg’s FTPA Salmond and Cameron’s Scotland referendum Constantly-pushed Parliamentary boundary reforms (now from 2005 data) Cameron’s attempt to renegotiate with the EU, followed by an open-ended referendum where he campaigned for the status quo rather than the change. Behaviour of Remain campaigners to try every trick to overturn the referendum result Theresa May’s triggering of A50 before the negotiation objectives were clear John Bercow’s blatant disregard for Parliamentary process to further his personal politics. Theresa May’s EU negotiations and refusal to compromise and sell her proposal as anything other than a fair accompli despite hardly anyone being in favour of it. The EU for negotiating in bad faith, then refusing to get back to the table in any meaningful way when it became clear the WA was dead in Parliament. Boris’s Parliamentary tricks in response to Bercow’s tricks Corbyn’s refusal to table a vote of no confidence for political reasons, and Parliament’s collective refusal to vote for an election when the government has clearly lost its majority. Use by many parties of the courts in an activist manner, leading them to interfere in the running of politics.
There’s going to be many more that I missed from that list. Once the immediate crisis is over, with Brexit resolved in whatever way it is, there’s a serious need for a major constitutional convention, leading to roles and processes being formalised that until now have never needed to be - because everyone used to understand the rules and play the game fairly.
That reads like an extended tantrum. Many of the things that you refer to were normal procedural matters. Some (eg "Behaviour of Remain campaigners to try every trick to overturn the referendum result") are just paranoid nonsense.
By far the worst thing on that list is the thing you gloss over. "Boris's Parliamentary tricks" was, I take it, your way of referring to the suspension of Parliamentary democracy. This thing is not like the other things.
I've really enjoyed the Mirror Universe saga over the summer - Johnson getting smashed on every vote, the resurrection of the LibDems, the did he lie to the Queen saga which gets resolved in today's episode, the brilliant Labour Party conference parody. I assume though that at some point Zarniwoop will tire of the alternate universe and return to his office on Ursa Minor Beta.
Will we find the real world a let down in comparison to the satirical alternative we're all still enjoying?
Speak for yourself RP, but I ain't enjoying this. It's a tragedy and a disgrace that's smashing our country to pieces.
Likewise. Amusing though @Cyclefree's header is this has been miserable and has done real damage to our country whatever the outcome.
Any outcome from here is bad. Whatever contortions parliament goes through we end up with something, a country, that is damaged.
I have no idea what any solution would comprise.
And what will happen? Brexitcast like the rest of us had it right we just don't know.
I've done my mourning some time ago.
As to what the solution will comprise, there will be no solution until Remainers accept that they have lost and Leavers accept that Brexit has been a disaster. Neither of those conditions has been met yet, nor will they be for a long time. So just settle back and enjoy the decline.
A disaster for whom ?
For our politicians and government establishment in general that might be right.
And its no bad thing that they are revealed to be not for purpose.
But out in the real world where is the disaster ?
The economy continues to trundle along, unemployment has fallen, pay has risen and housing is both being built and becoming more affordable.
The recession we were told would immediately happen didn't, the City hasn't relocated to Frankfurt and the crops have not rotted in the fields
I've really enjoyed the Mirror Universe saga over the summer - Johnson getting smashed on every vote, the resurrection of the LibDems, the did he lie to the Queen saga which gets resolved in today's episode, the brilliant Labour Party conference parody. I assume though that at some point Zarniwoop will tire of the alternate universe and return to his office on Ursa Minor Beta.
Will we find the real world a let down in comparison to the satirical alternative we're all still enjoying?
Speak for yourself RP, but I ain't enjoying this. It's a tragedy and a disgrace that's smashing our country to pieces.
Likewise. Amusing though @Cyclefree's header is this has been miserable and has done real damage to our country whatever the outcome.
Any outcome from here is bad. Whatever contortions parliament goes through we end up with something, a country, that is damaged.
I have no idea what any solution would comprise.
And what will happen? Brexitcast like the rest of us had it right we just don't know.
I've done my mourning some time ago.
As to what the solution will comprise, there will be no solution until Remainers accept that they have lost and Leavers accept that Brexit has been a disaster. Neither of those conditions has been met yet, nor will they be for a long time. So just settle back and enjoy the decline.
A disaster for whom ?
For our politicians and government establishment in general that might be right.
And its no bad thing that they are revealed to be not for purpose.
But out in the real world where is the disaster ?
The economy continues to trundle along, unemployment has fallen, pay has risen and housing is both being built and becoming more affordable.
The recession we were told would immediately happen didn't, the City hasn't relocated to Frankfurt and the crops have not rotted in the fields
Andrea Leadsom being given a very hard time about Johnson and his floozy. She came on all guns blazing to talk about corruption of the Thomas Cook execs but was faced with questions about BJ's. She became very defensive and started saying he was doing a very good job. Mishal Hussain gave her very short shrift.
I asked this before, but missed if there was an answer. If the prorogation is ruled invalid, what are the consequences for the extension bill, that was passed as part of the prorogation formalities?
That's one of the ones that would be voided...
Voided, or just awaiting royal assent?
According to the news reports I can find at the time the Benn Act received Royal Assent hours before the prorogation took effect, not as part of the prorogation ceremony. So then it would be unaffected by the Supreme Court judgement.
To add to it, here is my prediction of today's SC verdict. It is based on no legal knowledge whatsoever and having not listened to a word of the hearing -
This prorogation by Boris Johnson is NOT unlawful.
1) the government resigns 2) the Queen takes soundings as to who might command the confidence of the Commons 3) the Queen selects someone and appoints him or her as Prime Minister 4) the Conservatives have to decide whether to seek a vote of no confidence in that person 5a) they don’t and that person is Prime Minister indefinitely 5b) they do, the vote fails and that person is Prime Minister indefinitely 5c) they do, the vote succeeds and we enter a 14 day period to find someone else
Thanks.
If she is not reassured there is an alternative that commands confidence does she just keep throwing mud at the wall and letting MPs vote down the options?
Or can she refuse to invite an alternative and instead suggest a GE?
The Queen will appoint a Prime Minister. In the absence of anyone likely to command the confidence of the Commons, she will almost certainly call Jeremy Corbyn as the leader of the second party if the first party has stepped aside.
So to answer the question I understand you to be asking, there would be a Prime Minister who would have to comply with the recently-passed Act.
Swinson and the LDs would vote down PM Corbyn though as would Tory rebels so after a number of votes we would probably end up with PM Ken Clarke or Oliver Letwin or Harriet Harman or Hilary Benn purely to extend
Nah. If he’s already in place then it was Boris who put him there. In that scenario Corbyn would be PM going into an election after an extension.
No Boris won't vote for Corbyn as PM diehard Remainer MPs will but Corbyn as PM post extension is a Tory dream in Labour Leave seats while Remainers will still not trust Corbyn either after Labour refused to commit to back Remain this week
Boris doesn’t need to vote for Corbyn. If he resigns, Corbyn will probably be appointed. If he doesn’t resign, he will be forced to extend.
Snookered.
And watch the Leave seats fall to the Tories if Corbyn extends
I asked this before, but missed if there was an answer. If the prorogation is ruled invalid, what are the consequences for the extension bill, that was passed as part of the prorogation formalities?
That's one of the ones that would be voided...
Voided, or just awaiting royal assent?
According to the news reports I can find at the time the Benn Act received Royal Assent hours before the prorogation took effect, not as part of the prorogation ceremony. So then it would be unaffected by the Supreme Court judgement.
1) the government resigns 2) the Queen takes soundings as to who might command the confidence of the Commons 3) the Queen selects someone and appoints him or her as Prime Minister 4) the Conservatives have to decide whether to seek a vote of no confidence in that person 5a) they don’t and that person is Prime Minister indefinitely 5b) they do, the vote fails and that person is Prime Minister indefinitely 5c) they do, the vote succeeds and we enter a 14 day period to find someone else
Thanks.
If she is not reassured there is an alternative that commands confidence does she just keep throwing mud at the wall and letting MPs vote down the options?
Or can she refuse to invite an alternative and instead suggest a GE?
The Queen will appoint a Prime Minister. In the absence of anyone likely to command the confidence of the Commons, she will almost certainly call Jeremy Corbyn as the leader of the second party if the first party has stepped aside.
So to answer the question I understand you to be asking, there would be a Prime Minister who would have to comply with the recently-passed Act.
Swinson and the LDs would vote down PM Corbyn though as would Tory rebels so after a number of votes we would probably end up with PM Ken Clarke or Oliver Letwin or Harriet Harman or Hilary Benn purely to extend
Nah. If he’s already in place then it was Boris who put him there. In that scenario Corbyn would be PM going into an election after an extension.
No Boris won't vote for Corbyn as PM diehard Remainer MPs will but Corbyn as PM post extension is a Tory dream in Labour Leave seats while Remainers will still not trust Corbyn either after Labour refused to commit to back Remain this week
Boris doesn’t need to vote for Corbyn. If he resigns, Corbyn will probably be appointed. If he doesn’t resign, he will be forced to extend.
Snookered.
And watch the Leave seats fall to the Tories if Corbyn extends
So Boris is going to put the national security risk Corbyn into Downing Street? Jeez...
1) the government resigns 2) the Queen takes soundings as to who might command the confidence of the Commons 3) the Queen selects someone and appoints him or her as Prime Minister 4) the Conservatives have to decide whether to seek a vote of no confidence in that person 5a) they don’t and that person is Prime Minister indefinitely 5b) they do, the vote fails and that person is Prime Minister indefinitely 5c) they do, the vote succeeds and we enter a 14 day period to find someone else
Thanks.
If she is not reassured there is an alternative that commands confidence does she just keep throwing mud at the wall and letting MPs vote down the options?
Or can she refuse to invite an alternative and instead suggest a GE?
The Queen will appoint a Prime Minister. In the absence of anyone likely to command the confidence of the Commons, she will almost certainly call Jeremy Corbyn as the leader of the second party if the first party has stepped aside.
So to answer the question I understand you to be asking, there would be a Prime Minister who would have to comply with the recently-passed Act.
Swinson and the LDs would vote down PM Corbyn though as would Tory rebels so after a number of votes we would probably end up with PM Ken Clarke or Oliver Letwin or Harriet Harman or Hilary Benn purely to extend
Nah. If he’s already in place then it was Boris who put him there. In that scenario Corbyn would be PM going into an election after an extension.
No Boris won't vote for Corbyn as PM diehard Remainer MPs will but Corbyn as PM post extension is a Tory dream in Labour Leave seats while Remainers will still not trust Corbyn either after Labour refused to commit to back Remain this week
Boris doesn’t need to vote for Corbyn. If he resigns, Corbyn will probably be appointed. If he doesn’t resign, he will be forced to extend.
Snookered.
It would be hard, at the minute, for any of the Queen’s advisers to suggest to her that Corbyn commands a majority. Remember their main objective is to keep her out of it. In these circumstances that means suggesting someone they know (from soundings amongst senior MPs) has a majority, or sending for nobody and letting an election resolve it. Ideally someone like Clarke would wave a letter with 330 names on it; if he had them. But presumably we are now at a stage that Corbyn would support no one but Corbyn.
Yep, for a while now people have been pushing a mostly unwritten and informal constitutional system to breaking point, using and abusing it for their own ends and pushing it to the limits. From the last 20 years (a definitely non-exhaustive list)
Blair’s Lords’ reforms Asymmetric devolution to Scotland and Wales. Brown’s reneging on the Lisbon referendum promise Clegg’s FTPA Salmond and Cameron’s Scotland referendum Constantly-pushed Parliamentary boundary reforms (now from 2005 data) Cameron’s attempt to renegotiate with the EU, followed by an open-ended referendum where he campaigned for the status quo rather than the change. Behaviour of Remain campaigners to try every trick to overturn the referendum result Theresa May’s triggering of A50 before the negotiation objectives were clear John Bercow’s blatant disregard for Parliamentary process to further his personal politics. Theresa May’s EU negotiations and refusal to compromise and sell her proposal as anything other than a fair accompli despite hardly anyone being in favour of it. The EU for negotiating in bad faith, then refusing to get back to the table in any meaningful way when it became clear the WA was dead in Parliament. Boris’s Parliamentary tricks in response to Bercow’s tricks Corbyn’s refusal to table a vote of no confidence for political reasons, and Parliament’s collective refusal to vote for an election when the government has clearly lost its majority. Use by many parties of the courts in an activist manner, leading them to interfere in the running of politics.
There’s going to be many more that I missed from that list. Once the immediate crisis is over, with Brexit resolved in whatever way it is, there’s a serious need for a major constitutional convention, leading to roles and processes being formalised that until now have never needed to be - because everyone used to understand the rules and play the game fairly.
That reads like an extended tantrum. Many of the things that you refer to were normal procedural matters. Some (eg "Behaviour of Remain campaigners to try every trick to overturn the referendum result") are just paranoid nonsense.
By far the worst thing on that list is the thing you gloss over. "Boris's Parliamentary tricks" was, I take it, your way of referring to the suspension of Parliamentary democracy. This thing is not like the other things.
Yep, for a while now people have been pushing a mostly unwritten and informal constitutional system to breaking point, using and abusing it for their own ends and pushing it to the limits. From the last 20 years (a definitely non-exhaustive list)
Blair’s Lords’ reforms Asymmetric devolution to Scotland and Wales. Brown’s reneging on the Lisbon referendum promise Clegg’s FTPA Salmond and Cameron’s Scotland referendum Constantly-pushed Parliamentary boundary reforms (now from 2005 data) Cameron’s attempt to renegotiate with the EU, followed by an open-ended referendum where he campaigned for the status quo rather than the change. Behaviour of Remain campaigners to try every trick to overturn the referendum result Theresa May’s triggering of A50 before the negotiation objectives were clear John Bercow’s blatant disregard for Parliamentary process to further his personal politics. Theresa May’s EU negotiations and refusal to compromise and sell her proposal as anything other than a fair accompli despite hardly anyone being in favour of it. The EU for negotiating in bad faith, then refusing to get back to the table in any meaningful way when it became clear the WA was dead in Parliament. Boris’s Parliamentary tricks in response to Bercow’s tricks Corbyn’s refusal to table a vote of no confidence for political reasons, and Parliament’s collective refusal to vote for an election when the government has clearly lost its majority. Use by many parties of the courts in an activist manner, leading them to interfere in the running of politics.
There’s going to be many more that I missed from that list. Once the immediate crisis is over, with Brexit resolved in whatever way it is, there’s a serious need for a major constitutional convention, leading to roles and processes being formalised that until now have never needed to be - because everyone used to understand the rules and play the game fairly.
That reads like an extended tantrum. Many of the things that you refer to were normal procedural matters. Some (eg "Behaviour of Remain campaigners to try every trick to overturn the referendum result") are just paranoid nonsense.
By far the worst thing on that list is the thing you gloss over. "Boris's Parliamentary tricks" was, I take it, your way of referring to the suspension of Parliamentary democracy. This thing is not like the other things.
extended tantrum, "xenophobic lies", pot, kettle.
"Xenophobic lies" is a statement of fact, and one of the most important facts of the last decade. The manner in which the referendum was won was disastrous. Leavers have been trapped by the inexorable logic of the mandate they won.
I've really enjoyed the Mirror Universe saga over the summer - Johnson getting smashed on every vote, the resurrection of the LibDems, the did he lie to the Queen saga which gets resolved in today's episode, the brilliant Labour Party conference parody. I assume though that at some point Zarniwoop will tire of the alternate universe and return to his office on Ursa Minor Beta.
Will we find the real world a let down in comparison to the satirical alternative we're all still enjoying?
Speak for yourself RP, but I ain't enjoying this. It's a tragedy and a disgrace that's smashing our country to pieces.
Likewise. Amusing though @Cyclefree's header is this has been miserable and has done real damage to our country whatever the outcome.
Any outcome from here is bad. Whatever contortions parliament goes through we end up with something, a country, that is damaged.
I have no idea what any solution would comprise.
And what will happen? Brexitcast like the rest of us had it right we just don't know.
The current shake up has been on the cards for quite some time for those who bothered to look. The politicos have ignored all the warning signs and continued as normal. A new consensus will emerge but it wont be quick.
If the shake up was going to address that pent up frustration then I would perhaps see some merit in that view. But Brexit was simply getting a bollocking from your boss at work, coming home, and kicking the dog.
Yep, for a while now people have been pushing a mostly unwritten and informal constitutional system to breaking point, using and abusing it for their own ends and pushing it to the limits. From the last 20 years (a definitely non-exhaustive list)
Blair’s Lords’ reforms Asymmetric devolution to Scotland and Wales. Brown’s reneging on the Lisbon referendum promise Clegg’s FTPA Salmond and Cameron’s Scotland referendum Constantly-pushed Parliamentary boundary reforms (now from 2005 data) Cameron’s attempt to renegotiate with the EU, followed by an open-ended referendum where he campaigned for the status quo rather than the change. Behaviour of Remain campaigners to try every trick to overturn the referendum result Theresa May’s triggering of A50 before the negotiation objectives were clear John Bercow’s blatant disregard for Parliamentary process to further his personal politics. Theresa May’s EU negotiations and refusal to compromise and sell her proposal as anything other than a fair accompli despite hardly anyone being in favour of it. The EU for negotiating in bad faith, then refusing to get back to the table in any meaningful way when it became clear the WA was dead in Parliament. Boris’s Parliamentary tricks in response to Bercow’s tricks Corbyn’s refusal to table a vote of no confidence for political reasons, and Parliament’s collective refusal to vote for an election when the government has clearly lost its majority. Use by many parties of the courts in an activist manner, leading them to interfere in the running of politics.
There’s going to be many more that I missed from that list. Once the immediate crisis is over, with Brexit resolved in whatever way it is, there’s a serious need for a major constitutional convention, leading to roles and processes being formalised that until now have never needed to be - because everyone used to understand the rules and play the game fairly.
That reads like an extended tantrum. Many of the things that you refer to were normal procedural matters. Some (eg "Behaviour of Remain campaigners to try every trick to overturn the referendum result") are just paranoid nonsense.
By far the worst thing on that list is the thing you gloss over. "Boris's Parliamentary tricks" was, I take it, your way of referring to the suspension of Parliamentary democracy. This thing is not like the other things.
LOL. I treated all ‘sides’ with equal disdain - which right now is pretty much what the general public think of politics and politicians. The whole damn lot of them
I'll happily accept the word is used in a very vague way by plenty of people, if you took everyones use of it and tried to come up with a definition you would end up with nonsense. Exactly the same would happen for most political labels though. This doesn't mean the word doesn't exist or that people who use it are somehow crazy...
Yep, for a while now people have been pushing a mostly unwritten and informal constitutional system to breaking point, using and abusing it for their own ends and pushing it to the limits. From the last 20 years (a definitely non-exhaustive list)
Blair’s Lords’ reforms Asymmetric devolution to Scotland and Wales. Brown’s reneging on the Lisbon referendum promise Clegg’s FTPA Salmond and Cameron’s Scotland referendum Constantly-pushed Parliamentary boundary reforms (now from 2005 data) Cameron’s attempt to renegotiate with the EU, followed by an open-ended referendum where he campaigned for the status quo rather than the change. Behaviour of Remain campaigners to try every trick to overturn the referendum result Theresa May’s triggering of A50 before the negotiation objectives were clear John Bercow’s blatant disregard for Parliamentary process to further his personal politics. Theresa May’s EU negotiations and refusal to compromise and sell her proposal as anything other than a fair accompli despite hardly anyone being in favour of it. The EU for negotiating in bad faith, then refusing to get back to the table in any meaningful way when it became clear the WA was dead in Parliament. Boris’s Parliamentary tricks in response to Bercow’s tricks Corbyn’s refusal to table a vote of n fairly.
That reads like an extended tantrum. Many of the things that you refer to were normal procedural matters. Some (eg "Behaviour of Remain campaigners to try every trick to overturn the referendum result") are just paranoid nonsense.
By far the worst thing on that list is the thing you gloss over. "Boris's Parliamentary tricks" was, I take it, your way of referring to the suspension of Parliamentary democracy. This thing is not like the other things.
extended tantrum, "xenophobic lies", pot, kettle.
"Xenophobic lies" is a statement of fact, and one of the most important facts of the last decade. The manner in which the referendum was won was disastrous. Leavers have been trapped by the inexorable logic of the mandate they won.
really it isnt.
This is simply your take on people you have made little effort to understand. The UK remains one of the least racist places on the planet.
Yep, for a while now people have been pushing a mostly unwritten and informal constitutional system to breaking point, using and abusing it for their own ends and pushing it to the limits. From the last 20 years (a definitely non-exhaustive list)
Blair’s Lords’ reforms Asymmetric devolution to Scotland and Wales. Brown’s reneging on the Lisbon referendum promise Clegg’s FTPA Salmond and Cameron’s Scotland referendum Constantly-pushed Parliamentary boundary reforms (now from 2005 data) Cameron’s attempt to renegotiate with the EU, followed by an open-ended referendum where he campaigned for the status quo rather than the change. Behaviour of Remain campaigners to try every trick to overturn the referendum result Theresa May’s triggering of A50 before the negotiation objectives were clear John Bercow’s blatant disregard for Parliamentary process to further his personal politics. Theresa May’s EU negotiations and refusal to compromise and sell her proposal as anything other than a fair accompli despite hardly anyone being in favour of it. The EU for negotiating in bad faith, then refusing to get back to the table in any meaningful way when it became clear the WA was dead in Parliament. Boris’s Parliamentary tricks in response to Bercow’s tricks Corbyn’s refusal to table a vote of n fairly.
That reads like an extended tantrum. Many of the things that you refer to were normal procedural matters. Some (eg "Behaviour of Remain campaigners to try every trick to overturn the referendum result") are just paranoid nonsense.
By far the worst thing on that list is the thing you gloss over. "Boris's Parliamentary tricks" was, I take it, your way of referring to the suspension of Parliamentary democracy. This thing is not like the other things.
extended tantrum, "xenophobic lies", pot, kettle.
"Xenophobic lies" is a statement of fact, and one of the most important facts of the last decade. The manner in which the referendum was won was disastrous. Leavers have been trapped by the inexorable logic of the mandate they won.
really it isnt.
This is simply your take on people you have made little effort to understand. The UK remains one of the least racist places on the planet.
I've really enjoyed the Mirror Universe saga over the summer - Johnson getting smashed on every vote, the resurrection of the LibDems, the did he lie to the Queen saga which gets resolved in today's episode, the brilliant Labour Party conference parody. I assume though that at some point Zarniwoop will tire of the alternate universe and return to his office on Ursa Minor Beta.
Will we find the real world a let down in comparison to the satirical alternative we're all still enjoying?
Speak for yourself RP, but I ain't enjoying this. It's a tragedy and a disgrace that's smashing our country to pieces.
Likewise. Amusing though @Cyclefree's header is this has been miserable and has done real damage to our country whatever the outcome.
Any outcome from here is bad. Whatever contortions parliament goes through we end up with something, a country, that is damaged.
I have no idea what any solution would comprise.
And what will happen? Brexitcast like the rest of us had it right we just don't know.
The current shake up has been on the cards for quite some time for those who bothered to look. The politicos have ignored all the warning signs and continued as normal. A new consensus will emerge but it wont be quick.
If the shake up was going to address that pent up frustration then I would perhaps see some merit in that view. But Brexit was simply getting a bollocking from your boss at work, coming home, and kicking the dog.
It will solve nothing for those most in need.
If it is respected - a big IF, given the behaviour of Remainers - Brexit will give many millions of people a sense of agency. A feeling that, when it REALLY mattered, their vote counted, because Britain is a democracy. This is of incalculable value. Worth far more than 2% of GDP or whatever. No one is ignored, no matter how poor or humble.
Remainers don’t understand this because they have never felt ignored. They would throw this prize away because they are selfish, stupid and nasty.
I've really enjoyed the Mirror Universe saga over the summer - Johnson getting smashed on every vote, the resurrection of the LibDems, the did he lie to the Queen saga which gets resolved in today's episode, the brilliant Labour Party conference parody. I assume though that at some point Zarniwoop will tire of the alternate universe and return to his office on Ursa Minor Beta.
Will we find the real world a let down in comparison to the satirical alternative we're all still enjoying?
Speak for yourself RP, but I ain't enjoying this. It's a tragedy and a disgrace that's smashing our country to pieces.
Likewise. Amusing though @Cyclefree's header is this has been miserable and has done real damage to our country whatever the outcome.
Any outcome from here is bad. Whatever contortions parliament goes through we end up with something, a country, that is damaged.
I have no idea what any solution would comprise.
And what will happen? Brexitcast like the rest of us had it right we just don't know.
The current shake up has been on the cards for quite some time for those who bothered to look. The politicos have ignored all the warning signs and continued as normal. A new consensus will emerge but it wont be quick.
If the shake up was going to address that pent up frustration then I would perhaps see some merit in that view. But Brexit was simply getting a bollocking from your boss at work, coming home, and kicking the dog.
It will solve nothing for those most in need.
If it is respected - a big IF, given the behaviour of Remainers - Brexit will give many millions of people a sense of agency. A feeling that, when it REALLY mattered, their vote counted, because Britain is a democracy. This is of incalculable value. Worth far more than 2% of GDP or whatever. No one is ignored, no matter how poor or humble.
Remainers don’t understand this because they have never felt ignored. They would throw this prize away because they are selfish, stupid and nasty.
What on earth is this drivel? We’ve been ignored since 2016. That’s the point. We would have left already to EEA otherwise.
I've really enjoyed the Mirror Universe saga over the summer - Johnson getting smashed on every vote, the resurrection of the LibDems, the did he lie to the Queen saga which gets resolved in today's episode, the brilliant Labour Party conference parody. I assume though that at some point Zarniwoop will tire of the alternate universe and return to his office on Ursa Minor Beta.
Will we find the real world a let down in comparison to the satirical alternative we're all still enjoying?
Speak for yourself RP, but I ain't enjoying this. It's a tragedy and a disgrace that's smashing our country to pieces.
Likewise. Amusing though @Cyclefree's header is this has been miserable and has done real damage to our country whatever the outcome.
Any outcome from here is bad. Whatever contortions parliament goes through we end up with something, a country, that is damaged.
I have no idea what any solution would comprise.
And what will happen? Brexitcast like the rest of us had it right we just don't know.
I've done my mourning some time ago.
As to what the solution will comprise, there will be no solution until Remainers accept that they have lost and Leavers accept that Brexit has been a disaster. Neither of those conditions has been met yet, nor will they be for a long time. So just settle back and enjoy the decline.
A disaster for whom ?
For our politicians and government establishment in general that might be right.
And its no bad thing that they are revealed to be not for purpose.
But out in the real world where is the disaster ?
The economy continues to trundle along, unemployment has fallen, pay has risen and housing is both being built and becoming more affordable.
The recession we were told would immediately happen didn't, the City hasn't relocated to Frankfurt and the crops have not rotted in the fields
We haven’t left the EU yet mate.
We were told that there would be an immediate four quarter recession following a Leave vote.
And we were told that the City would be relocating to Frankfurt with endless thousand job losses.
And we were told that the crops were rotting in the fields.
And all of those were wrong.
So where is the 'disaster' out in the real world ?
Is it hiding behind all the new houses and new restaurants and new cinemas which are being built
I've really enjoyed the Mirror Universe saga over the summer - Johnson getting smashed on every vote, the resurrection of the LibDems, the did he lie to the Queen saga which gets resolved in today's episode, the brilliant Labour Party conference parody. I assume though that at some point Zarniwoop will tire of the alternate universe and return to his office on Ursa Minor Beta.
Will we find the real world a let down in comparison to the satirical alternative we're all still enjoying?
Speak for yourself RP, but I ain't enjoying this. It's a tragedy and a disgrace that's smashing our country to pieces.
Likewise. Amusing though @Cyclefree's header is this has been miserable and has done real damage to our country whatever the outcome.
Any outcome from here is bad. Whatever contortions parliament goes through we end up with something, a country, that is damaged.
I have no idea what any solution would comprise.
And what will happen? Brexitcast like the rest of us had it right we just don't know.
I've done my mourning some time ago.
As to what the solution will comprise, there will be no solution until Remainers accept that they have lost and Leavers accept that Brexit has been a disaster. Neither of those conditions has been met yet, nor will they be for a long time. So just settle back and enjoy the decline.
A disaster for whom ?
For our politicians and government establishment in general that might be right.
And its no bad thing that they are revealed to be not for purpose.
But out in the real world where is the disaster ?
The economy continues to trundle along, unemployment has fallen, pay has risen and housing is both being built and becoming more affordable.
The recession we were told would immediately happen didn't, the City hasn't relocated to Frankfurt and the crops have not rotted in the fields
We haven’t left the EU yet mate.
We were told that there would be an immediate four quarter recession following a Leave vote.
And we were told that the City would be relocating to Frankfurt with endless thousand job losses.
And we were told that the crops were rotting in the fields.
And all of those were wrong.
So where is the 'disaster' out in the real world ?
Is it hiding behind all the new houses and new restaurants and new cinemas which are being built
We were also told that we hold all the cards and that they need us more than we need them and that it would be the easiest deal in history. What’s your point?
1) the government resigns 2) the Queen takes soundings as to who might command the confidence of the Commons 3) the Queen selects someone and appoints him or her as Prime Minister 4) the Conservatives have to decide whether to seek a vote of no confidence in that person 5a) they don’t and that person is Prime Minister indefinitely 5b) they do, the vote fails and that person is Prime Minister indefinitely 5c) they do, the vote succeeds and we enter a 14 day period to find someone else
Thanks.
If she is not reassured there is an alternative that commands confidence does she just keep throwing mud at the wall and letting MPs vote down the options?
Or can she refuse to invite an alternative and instead suggest a GE?
The Queen will appoint a Prime Minister. In the absence of anyone likely to command the confidence of the Commons, she will almost certainly call Jeremy Corbyn as the leader of the second party if the first party has stepped aside.
So to answer the question I understand you to be asking, there would be a Prime Minister who would have to comply with the recently-passed Act.
Swinson and the LDs would vote down PM Corbyn though as would Tory rebels so after a number of votes we would probably end up with PM Ken Clarke or Oliver Letwin or Harriet Harman or Hilary Benn purely to extend
A Clarke-Harman axis would be eminently sensible and would command more intelligence and skill in the ring fingers of the eponymous duo than the entire rump PCP combined.
1) the government resigns 2) the Queen takes soundings as to who might command the confidence of the Commons 3) the Queen selects someone and appoints him or her as Prime Minister 4) the Conservatives have to decide whether to seek a vote of no confidence in that person 5a) they don’t and that person is Prime Minister indefinitely 5b) they do, the vote fails and that person is Prime Minister indefinitely 5c) they do, the vote succeeds and we enter a 14 day period to find someone else
Thanks.
If she is not reassured there is an alternative that commands confidence does she just keep throwing mud at the wall and letting MPs vote down the options?
Or can she refuse to invite an alternative and instead suggest a GE?
The Queen will appoint a Prime Minister. In the absence of anyone likely to command the confidence of the Commons, she will almost certainly call Jeremy Corbyn as the leader of the second party if the first party has stepped aside.
So to answer the question I understand you to be asking, there would be a Prime Minister who would have to comply with the recently-passed Act.
Swinson and the LDs would vote down PM Corbyn though as would Tory rebels so after a number of votes we would probably end up with PM Ken Clarke or Oliver Letwin or Harriet Harman or Hilary Benn purely to extend
A Clarke-Harman axis would be eminently sensible and would command more intelligence and skill in the ring fingers of the eponymous duo than the entire rump PCP combined.
Harman would probably be deselected in such a scenario.
I've really enjoyed the Mirror Universe saga over the summer - Johnson getting smashed on every vote, the resurrection of the LibDems, the did he lie to the Queen saga which gets resolved in today's episode, the brilliant Labour Party conference parody. I assume though that at some point Zarniwoop will tire of the alternate universe and return to his office on Ursa Minor Beta.
Will we find the real world a let down in comparison to the satirical alternative we're all still enjoying?
Speak for yourself RP, but I ain't enjoying this. It's a tragedy and a disgrace that's smashing our country to pieces.
Likewise. Amusing though @Cyclefree's header is this has been miserable and has done real damage to our country whatever the outcome.
Any outcome from here is bad. Whatever contortions parliament goes through we end up with something, a country, that is damaged.
I have no idea what any solution would comprise.
And what will happen? Brexitcast like the rest of us had it right we just don't know.
The current shake up has been on the cards for quite some time for those who bothered to look. The politicos have ignored all the warning signs and continued as normal. A new consensus will emerge but it wont be quick.
If the shake up was going to address that pent up frustration then I would perhaps see some merit in that view. But Brexit was simply getting a bollocking from your boss at work, coming home, and kicking the dog.
It will solve nothing for those most in need.
It wont guarantee anything but it may the create the conditions for change.
UK politicans have the chance to reposition themselves from the set up of the last two decades and seek an electoral mandate. Currently we are probably being spoilt by the full range of political options being laid in front of us which is the complete reverse of the samieness of Balir\Cameron years. From that maelstrom a new settlement may emerge.
The risk is the stupid politicos will simply seek to nobble electoral ferment and put a bigger lid on the pressure cooker. If that happens we could end up anywhere.
1) the government resigns 2) the Queen takes soundings as to who might command the confidence of the Commons 3) the Queen selects someone and appoints him or her as Prime Minister 4) the Conservatives have to decide whether to seek a vote of no confidence in that person 5a) they don’t and that person is Prime Minister indefinitely 5b) they do, the vote fails and that person is Prime Minister indefinitely 5c) they do, the vote succeeds and we enter a 14 day period to find someone else
Thanks.
If she is not reassured there is an alternative that commands confidence does she just keep throwing mud at the wall and letting MPs vote down the options?
Or can she refuse to invite an alternative and instead suggest a GE?
The Queen will appoint a Prime Minister. In the absence of anyone likely to command the confidence of the Commons, she will almost certainly call Jeremy Corbyn as the leader of the second party if the first party has stepped aside.
So to answer the question I understand you to be asking, there would be a Prime Minister who would have to comply with the recently-passed Act.
Swinson and the LDs would vote down PM Corbyn though as would Tory rebels so after a number of votes we would probably end up with PM Ken Clarke or Oliver Letwin or Harriet Harman or Hilary Benn purely to extend
Nah. If he’s already in place then it was Boris who put him there. In that scenario Corbyn would be PM going into an election after an extension.
No Boris won't vote for Corbyn as PM diehard Remainer MPs will but Corbyn as PM post extension is a Tory dream in Labour Leave seats while Remainers will still not trust Corbyn either after Labour refused to commit to back Remain this week
Boris doesn’t need to vote for Corbyn. If he resigns, Corbyn will probably be appointed. If he doesn’t resign, he will be forced to extend.
Snookered.
And watch the Leave seats fall to the Tories if Corbyn extends
Long Bailey isn't wonderful but she's miles better than Laura Pidcock. Yesterday and to day are the first time I've heard both speak at length. It's possible with time Long Bailey could be quite good. Infinitely more appealing to non cult members than Corbyn. Piddock just sounds like an affected moron. The other disappointment is Keir Starmer (Sir). For someone who reached the heights he did he's very inarticulate
Have we had anyone who has called for a bailout of a foreign holidays provider and who has also demanded action to reduce carbon emissions ?
Personally Im more interested in why the LSE bid is not getting more attention. It has all the makings of a national bust up but hasnt yet hit the public consciousness
I've really enjoyed the Mirror Universe saga over the summer - Johnson getting smashed on every vote, the resurrection of the LibDems, the did he lie to the Queen saga which gets resolved in today's episode, the brilliant Labour Party conference parody. I assume though that at some point Zarniwoop will tire of the alternate universe and return to his office on Ursa Minor Beta.
Will we find the real world a let down in comparison to the satirical alternative we're all still enjoying?
Speak for yourself RP, but I ain't enjoying this. It's a tragedy and a disgrace that's smashing our country to pieces.
Likewise. Amusing though @Cyclefree's header is this has been miserable and has done real damage to our country whatever the outcome.
Any outcome from here is bad. Whatever contortions parliament goes through we end up with something, a country, that is damaged.
I have no idea what any solution would comprise.
And what will happen? Brexitcast like the rest of us had it right we just don't know.
The current shake up has been on the cards for quite some time for those who bothered to look. The politicos have ignored all the warning signs and continued as normal. A new consensus will emerge but it wont be quick.
If the shake up was going to address that pent up frustration then I would perhaps see some merit in that view. But Brexit was simply getting a bollocking from your boss at work, coming home, and kicking the dog.
It will solve nothing for those most in need.
If it is respected - a big IF, given the behaviour of Remainers - Brexit will give many millions of people a sense of agency. A feeling that, when it REALLY mattered, their vote counted, because Britain is a democracy. This is of incalculable value. Worth far more than 2% of GDP or whatever. No one is ignored, no matter how poor or humble.
Remainers don’t understand this because they have never felt ignored. They would throw this prize away because they are selfish, stupid and nasty.
What on earth is this drivel? We’ve been ignored since 2016. That’s the point. We would have left already to EEA otherwise.
Well quite, as any fule (including Sean) kno.
He presumably doesn’t even have the traditional gin excuse at this time of day, unless posting from a bar in Australia?
Given the hung parliament and the rejection of the Withdrawal Agreement 3 times by MPs the EU should have realised it takes 2 to tango and given the only Brexit solution to have got a majority in the Commons is the Withdrawal Agreement minus the backstop which Boris also wants if they are not going to move towards that No further progress will be made unless there is a general election and a change in the Commons arithmetic
Not this comment again.
He is actually right though, as long as you don’t infer from it that the EU have done anything wrong. Under current Parliamentary arithmetic it is probably their only option to avert no deal or endless extensions.
No deal without parliamentary consent is illegal remember.
So endless extension it is then without a Tory majority which suits the EU fine I suspect which is why they will not agree to the Withdrawal Agreement and a technical solution for the Irish border unless the Tories win a majority and No Deal is a real threat
I thought you said a Tory majority government would allow Boris to agree a Northern Ireland-only backstop?
Yep, for a while now people have been pushing a mostly unwritten and informal constitutional system to breaking point, using and abusing. The EU for negotiating in bad faith, then refusing to get back to the table in any meaningful way when it became clear the WA was dead in Parliament. Boris’s Parliamentary tricks in response to Bercow’s tricks Corbyn’s refusal to table a vote of no confidence for political reasons, and Parliament’s collective refusal to vote for an election when the government has clearly lost its majority. Use by many parties of the courts in an activist manner, leading them to interfere in the running of politics.
There’s going to be many more that I missed from that list. Once the immediate crisis is over, with Brexit resolved in whatever way it is, there’s a serious need for a major constitutional convention, leading to roles and processes being formalised that until now have never needed to be - because everyone used to understand the rules and play the game fairly.
That reads like an extended tantrum. Many of the things that you refer to were normal procedural matters. Some (eg "Behaviour of Remain campaigners to try every trick to overturn the referendum result") are just paranoid nonsense.
By far the worst thing on that list is the thing you gloss over. "Boris's Parliamentary tricks" was, I take it, your way of referring to the suspension of Parliamentary democracy. This thing is not like the other things.
extended tantrum, "xenophobic lies", pot, kettle.
"Xenophobic lies" is a statement of fact, and one of the most important facts of the last decade. The manner in which the referendum was won was disastrous. Leavers have been trapped by the inexorable logic of the mandate they won.
You really are blind to what an unpleasant, bitter little man you come across as aren’t you? This is why the Remain campaign is ultimately doomed to lose.
"Xenophobic lies" is a statement of fact, and one of the most important facts of the last decade. The manner in which the referendum was won was disastrous. Leavers have been trapped by the inexorable logic of the mandate they won.
really it isnt.
This is simply your take on people you have made little effort to understand. The UK remains one of the least racist places on the planet.
It's amazing that I can have made the point so many times and yet you still don't understand it. The campaign was founded and won on xenophobic lies. You seem to think I'm labelling all the people who voted.
The disaster was when a bunch of affluent reactionaries decided that it was worth pandering to xenophobia to win the vote to indulge their own mad prejudices, not realising or caring what that would mean after the vote was won.
Long Bailey isn't wonderful but she's miles better than Laura Pidcock. Yesterday and to day are the first time I've heard both speak at length. It's possible with time Long Bailey could be quite good. Infinitely more appealing to non cult members than Corbyn. Piddock just sounds like an affected moron. The other disappointment is Keir Starmer (Sir). For someone who reached the heights he did he's very inarticulate
Quite like Rebecca. She’s a smart, well-presented, self-made northern woman. Can improve as you say. Is of the left without being bonkers and can reach out to more moderate voters.
Likewise. Amusing though @Cyclefree's header is this has been miserable and has done real damage to our country whatever the outcome.
Any outcome from here is bad. Whatever contortions parliament goes through we end up with something, a country, that is damaged.
I have no idea what any solution would comprise.
And what will happen? Brexitcast like the rest of us had it right we just don't know.
I've done my mourning some time ago.
As to what the solution will comprise, there will be no solution until Remainers accept that they have lost and Leavers accept that Brexit has been a disaster. Neither of those conditions has been met yet, nor will they be for a long time. So just settle back and enjoy the decline.
A disaster for whom ?
For our politicians and government establishment in general that might be right.
And its no bad thing that they are revealed to be not for purpose.
But out in the real world where is the disaster ?
The economy continues to trundle along, unemployment has fallen, pay has risen and housing is both being built and becoming more affordable.
The recession we were told would immediately happen didn't, the City hasn't relocated to Frankfurt and the crops have not rotted in the fields
We haven’t left the EU yet mate.
We were told that there would be an immediate four quarter recession following a Leave vote.
And we were told that the City would be relocating to Frankfurt with endless thousand job losses.
And we were told that the crops were rotting in the fields.
And all of those were wrong.
So where is the 'disaster' out in the real world ?
Is it hiding behind all the new houses and new restaurants and new cinemas which are being built
We were also told that we hold all the cards and that they need us more than we need them and that it would be the easiest deal in history. What’s your point?
If you read what I wrote you would see my point.
I'm asking where the 'disaster' is out in the real world.
Now if we want some progress then the fanatics on one side should admit that their talk of 'lucrative trade deals' and 'walls of money' were bollox and the fanatics on the other side should admit their talk of 'City relocating to Frankfurt' and 'crops rotting in the fields' were bollox.
Excellence? Your outfit [Eton] turned out Cameron and Johnson to wreak havoc on the world. I will take Slough Comprehensive any day.
It's ridiculous to equate Cameron and Johnson.
Cameron, like May and Chamberlain, didn't respond well to the problems of his time - and so was forced out. Johnson is a serial liar, morally bankrupt, doesn't know what he's talking about and probably corrupt. There's reasonable debate about who our worst PM has been: but for outright unfitness for any government office, Johnson manifestly takes the all time record.
It'd be stupid to blame comprehensive schools for May's failure, or a successful business background for Chamberlain's.
Blaming Eton for Johnson sounds dangerously like a monster chip on FF43's shoulders. Johnson's almost certainly destroyed Eton's likelihood of producing any more PMs for the next century: but the fact remains that, for most parents with the cash who don't want a political future for their children, sending the brats to Eton is a jolly wise investment.
I don't challenge the headteacher of Eton on grounds of underserved privilege, although he certainly glosses over the issue. I challenge him on his statement that Eton's product is excellent, when demonstrably it isn't. I don't exclude Cameron from that assessment. His weak character and poor thinking led to the disaster that is Brexit.
Likewise. Amusing though @Cyclefree's header is this has been miserable and has done real damage to our country whatever the outcome.
Any outcome from here is bad. Whatever contortions parliament goes through we end up with something, a country, that is damaged.
I have no idea what any solution would comprise.
And what will happen? Brexitcast like the rest of us had it right we just don't know.
I've done my mourning some time ago.
As to what the solution will comprise, there will be no solution until Remainers accept that they have lost and Leavers accept that Brexit has been a disaster. Neither of those conditions has been met yet, nor will they be for a long time. So just settle back and enjoy the decline.
A disaster for whom ?
For our politicians and government establishment in general that might be right.
And its no bad thing that they are revealed to be not for purpose.
But out in the real world where is the disaster ?
The economy continues to trundle along, unemployment has fallen, pay has risen and housing is both being built and becoming more affordable.
The recession we were told would immediately happen didn't, the City hasn't relocated to Frankfurt and the crops have not rotted in the fields
We haven’t left the EU yet mate.
We were told that there would be an immediate four quarter recession following a Leave vote.
And we were told that the City would be relocating to Frankfurt with endless thousand job losses.
And we were told that the crops were rotting in the fields.
And all of those were wrong.
So where is the 'disaster' out in the real world ?
Is it hiding behind all the new houses and new restaurants and new cinemas which are being built
We were also told that we hold all the cards and that they need us more than we need them and that it would be the easiest deal in history. What’s your point?
If you read what I wrote you would see my point.
I'm asking where the 'disaster' is out in the real world.
Now if we want some progress then the fanatics on one side should admit that their talk of 'lucrative trade deals' and 'walls of money' were bollox and the fanatics on the other side should admit their talk of 'City relocating to Frankfurt' and 'crops rotting in the fields' were bollox.
I've really enjoyed the Mirror Universe saga over the summer - Johnson getting smashed on every vote, the resurrection of the LibDems, the did he lie to the Queen saga which gets resolved in today's episode, the brilliant Labour Party conference parody. I assume though that at some point Zarniwoop will tire of the alternate universe and return to his office on Ursa Minor Beta.
Will we find the real world a let down in comparison to the satirical alternative we're all still enjoying?
Speak for yourself RP, but I ain't enjoying this. It's a tragedy and a disgrace that's smashing our country to pieces.
Likewise. Amusing though @Cyclefree's header is this has been miserable and has done real damage to our country whatever the outcome.
For which you have to blame the Leavers. They were the ones who wanted to change everything without the wit to understand the consequences.
If it is respected - a big IF, given the behaviour of Remainers - Brexit will give many millions of people a sense of agency. A feeling that, when it REALLY mattered, their vote counted, because Britain is a democracy. This is of incalculable value. Worth far more than 2% of GDP or whatever. No one is ignored, no matter how poor or humble.
Remainers don’t understand this because they have never felt ignored. They would throw this prize away because they are selfish, stupid and nasty.
I would put essentially the same point differently.
If we leave the EU many millions of Britons - regardless of objective reality - will FEEL more sovereign as they go about their daily business.
What an absolute drama queen she is. Totally lost the plot and her God complex has gone crazy. Time her parents took her away and sent her back to school. Total breakdown on the horizon.
Greta is a star, but a fragile one. She is after all a child. The UN know already what the issues are, they have just chosen to ignore them. Frankie Boyle is right.
There is value in stating your case clearly to people who are not interested in listening. Other people may be listening, and they may choose to act.
I do not think that Ms Thunberg believes that the politicians at the UN will suddenly start acting on their knowledge as she thinks necessary, but I think that she hopes that non-politicians the world over will be listening, and will choose to join future protests, to create the political pressure that politicians will have to respond to - or be swept aside by.
The problem with this is that Macron put up fuel taxes to help the environment and it spawned the gilets jaunes. In theory, people may pay lip service to the idea that economic growth is bad, but in reality no-one is going to tolerate being signficantly poorer. Any attempts to stop global warming through making people poorer is doomed to failure. Technology has to be the answer.
"Xenophobic lies" is a statement of fact, and one of the most important facts of the last decade. The manner in which the referendum was won was disastrous. Leavers have been trapped by the inexorable logic of the mandate they won.
really it isnt.
This is simply your take on people you have made little effort to understand. The UK remains one of the least racist places on the planet.
It's amazing that I can have made the point so many times and yet you still don't understand it. The campaign was founded and won on xenophobic lies. You seem to think I'm labelling all the people who voted.
The disaster was when a bunch of affluent reactionaries decided that it was worth pandering to xenophobia to win the vote to indulge their own mad prejudices, not realising or caring what that would mean after the vote was won.
How valid would a remain victory have been if the same alleged xenophobic lies had not been told, and the racists had accordingly voted remain?
Yep, for a while now people have been pushing a mostly unwritten and informal constitutional system to breaking point, using and abusing. The EU for negotiating in bad faith, then refusing to get back to the table in any meaningful way when it became clear the WA was dead in Parliament. Boris’s Parliamentary tricks in response to Bercow’s tricks Corbyn’s refusal to table a vote of no confidence for political reasons, and Parliament’s collective refusal to vote for an election when the government has clearly lost its majority. Use by many parties of the courts in an activist manner, leading them to interfere in the running of politics.
There’s going to be many more that I missed from that list. Once the immediate crisis is over, with Brexit resolved in whatever way it is, there’s a serious need for a major constitutional convention, leading to roles and processes being formalised that until now have never needed to be - because everyone used to understand the rules and play the game fairly.
That reads like an extended tantrum. Many of the things that you refer to were normal procedural matters. Some (eg "Behaviour of Remain campaigners to try every trick to overturn the referendum result") are just paranoid nonsense.
By far the worst thing on that list is the thing you gloss over. "Boris's Parliamentary tricks" was, I take it, your way of referring to the suspension of Parliamentary democracy. This thing is not like the other things.
extended tantrum, "xenophobic lies", pot, kettle.
"Xenophobic lies" is a statement of fact, and one of the most important facts of the last decade. The manner in which the referendum was won was disastrous. Leavers have been trapped by the inexorable logic of the mandate they won.
You really are blind to what an unpleasant, bitter little man you come across as aren’t you? This is why the Remain campaign is ultimately doomed to lose.
And yet you are the one who resorts to ad hominem in response to an argued point.
1) the government resigns 2) the Queen takes soundings as to who might command the confidence of the Commons 3) the Queen selects someone and appoints him or her as Prime Minister 4) the Conservatives have to decide whether to seek a vote of no confidence in that person 5a) they don’t and that person is Prime Minister indefinitely 5b) they do, the vote fails and that person is Prime Minister indefinitely 5c) they do, the vote succeeds and we enter a 14 day period to find someone else
Thanks.
If she is not reassured there is an alternative that commands confidence does she just keep throwing mud at the wall and letting MPs vote down the options?
Or can she refuse to invite an alternative and instead suggest a GE?
The Queen will appoint a Prime Minister. In the absence of anyone likely to command the confidence of the Commons, she will almost certainly call Jeremy Corbyn as the leader of the second party if the first party has stepped aside.
So to answer the question I understand you to be asking, there would be a Prime Minister who would have to comply with the recently-passed Act.
Swinson and the LDs would vote down PM Corbyn though as would Tory rebels so after a number of votes we would probably end up with PM Ken Clarke or Oliver Letwin or Harriet Harman or Hilary Benn purely to extend
Nah. If he’s already in place then it was Boris who put him there. In that scenario Corbyn would be PM going into an election after an extension.
No Boris won't vote for Corbyn as PM diehard Remainer MPs will but Corbyn as PM post extension is a Tory dream in Labour Leave seats while Remainers will still not trust Corbyn either after Labour refused to commit to back Remain this week
Boris doesn’t need to vote for Corbyn. If he resigns, Corbyn will probably be appointed. If he doesn’t resign, he will be forced to extend.
Snookered.
Boris will resign as PM rather than extend and take the Tories into opposition
Swinson and the LDs and Independents and anti No Deal Tory rebels likely vote down Corbyn as PM anyway but in the unlikely event Corbyn becomes PM and extends himself watch the Labour Leave seats fall to the Tories and Brexit Party like skittles at the next general election.
Have we had anyone who has called for a bailout of a foreign holidays provider and who has also demanded action to reduce carbon emissions ?
Personally Im more interested in why the LSE bid is not getting more attention. It has all the makings of a national bust up but hasnt yet hit the public consciousness
Good point. Someone’s going to have a very tough decision to take on that one.
Have we had anyone who has called for a bailout of a foreign holidays provider and who has also demanded action to reduce carbon emissions ?
Personally Im more interested in why the LSE bid is not getting more attention. It has all the makings of a national bust up but hasnt yet hit the public consciousness
Its not 'real world' to the public consciousness.
A market is nothing special to the average person - if you don't like one you can shop at another.
Long Bailey isn't wonderful but she's miles better than Laura Pidcock. Yesterday and to day are the first time I've heard both speak at length. It's possible with time Long Bailey could be quite good. Infinitely more appealing to non cult members than Corbyn. Piddock just sounds like an affected moron. The other disappointment is Keir Starmer (Sir). For someone who reached the heights he did he's very inarticulate
Starmer is a lifeless plank. He’s symptomatic of a wider problem for Remainers: all their political leaders are either boring, or snobbish, or weird, or off-putting in some other way. They have no one with charisma, no one able to voice Remainer feelings with verve and plausibility. Leave had Farage and Boris, last time.
The C4 movie, Brexit, the Uncivil War, which I watched the other day, is very good on this. All the Remainers are boring and inert.
Whatever the outcome of this court case, I find it depressing that we have ended up in this situation, whereby a massive legal case is deciding this issue rather than parliament.
What an absolute drama queen she is. Totally lost the plot and her God complex has gone crazy. Time her parents took her away and sent her back to school. Total breakdown on the horizon.
Greta is a star, but a fragile one. She is after all a child. The UN know already what the issues are, they have just chosen to ignore them. Frankie Boyle is right.
There is value in stating your case clearly to people who are not interested in listening. Other people may be listening, and they may choose to act.
I do not think that Ms Thunberg believes that the politicians at the UN will suddenly start acting on their knowledge as she thinks necessary, but I think that she hopes that non-politicians the world over will be listening, and will choose to join future protests, to create the political pressure that politicians will have to respond to - or be swept aside by.
The problem with this is that Macron put up fuel taxes to help the environment and it spawned the gilets jaunes. In theory, people may pay lip service to the idea that economic growth is bad, but in reality no-one is going to tolerate being signficantly poorer. Any attempts to stop global warming through making people poorer is doomed to failure. Technology has to be the answer.
This. A hundred times this. The solution is the same as every solution mankind has ever come up with, to innovate their way into the future. The role of government is to support innovation and new technology, the clock only ever runs forwards.
If it is respected - a big IF, given the behaviour of Remainers - Brexit will give many millions of people a sense of agency. A feeling that, when it REALLY mattered, their vote counted, because Britain is a democracy. This is of incalculable value. Worth far more than 2% of GDP or whatever. No one is ignored, no matter how poor or humble.
Remainers don’t understand this because they have never felt ignored. They would throw this prize away because they are selfish, stupid and nasty.
I would put essentially the same point differently.
If we leave the EU many millions of Britons - regardless of objective reality - will FEEL more sovereign as they go about their daily business.
This is not to be sniffed at.
Seriously, it isn't.
And they would hopefully feel more responsible for their own actions.
With less of the "I blame the EU' or "the government should do something" or "its someone else's problem".
With beneficial consequences to the economy and environment.
The National Crime Agency (NCA) has said it has found 'no evidence that any criminal offences have been committed' after the Electoral Commission referred allegations against Leave.EU and businessman Arron Banks.
"Xenophobic lies" is a statement of fact, and one of the most important facts of the last decade. The manner in which the referendum was won was disastrous. Leavers have been trapped by the inexorable logic of the mandate they won.
really it isnt.
This is simply your take on people you have made little effort to understand. The UK remains one of the least racist places on the planet.
It's amazing that I can have made the point so many times and yet you still don't understand it. The campaign was founded and won on xenophobic lies. You seem to think I'm labelling all the people who voted.
The disaster was when a bunch of affluent reactionaries decided that it was worth pandering to xenophobia to win the vote to indulge their own mad prejudices, not realising or caring what that would mean after the vote was won.
How valid would a remain victory have been if the same alleged xenophobic lies had not been told, and the racists had accordingly voted remain?
Did I say the Leave victory was not valid? I said it was disastrous because of the way in which it was won.
I've really enjoyed the Mirror Universe saga over the summer - Johnson getting smashed on every vote, the resurrection of the LibDems, the did he lie to the Queen saga which gets resolved in today's episode, the brilliant Labour Party conference parody. I assume though that at some point Zarniwoop will tire of the alternate universe and return to his office on Ursa Minor Beta.
Will we find the real world a let down in comparison to the satirical alternative we're all still enjoying?
Speak for yourself RP, but I ain't enjoying this. It's a tragedy and a disgrace that's smashing our country to pieces.
Likewise. Amusing though @Cyclefree's header is this has been miserable and has done real damage to our country whatever the outcome.
Any outcome from here is bad. Whatever contortions parliament goes through we end up with something, a country, that is damaged.
I have no idea what any solution would comprise.
And what will happen? Brexitcast like the rest of us had it right we just don't know.
The current shake up has been on the cards for quite some time for those who bothered to look. The politicos have ignored all the warning signs and continued as normal. A new consensus will emerge but it wont be quick.
If the shake up was going to address that pent up frustration then I would perhaps see some merit in that view. But Brexit was simply getting a bollocking from your boss at work, coming home, and kicking the dog.
It will solve nothing for those most in need.
If it is respected - a big IF, given the behaviour of Remainers - Brexit will give many millions of people a sense of agency. A feeling that, when it REALLY mattered, their vote counted, because Britain is a democracy. This is of incalculable value. Worth far more than 2% of GDP or whatever. No one is ignored, no matter how poor or humble.
Remainers don’t understand this because they have never felt ignored. They would throw this prize away because they are selfish, stupid and nasty.
I don't detect a great sense of agency from Leavers. If so, they would be energised to deliver a successful outcome to their own project, instead of blaming Remainers and others for the failure to deliver something they never believed in and which Leavers refused to own.
I take your point in general but it doesn't apply here. The whole point of sovereignty is you do something with it.
"Xenophobic lies" is a statement of fact, and one of the most important facts of the last decade. The manner in which the referendum was won was disastrous. Leavers have been trapped by the inexorable logic of the mandate they won.
really it isnt.
This is simply your take on people you have made little effort to understand. The UK remains one of the least racist places on the planet.
It's amazing that I can have made the point so many times and yet you still don't understand it. The campaign was founded and won on xenophobic lies. You seem to think I'm labelling all the people who voted.
The disaster was when a bunch of affluent reactionaries decided that it was worth pandering to xenophobia to win the vote to indulge their own mad prejudices, not realising or caring what that would mean after the vote was won.
bar some arseholes. the country continues to welcome thousands of people to live and work here, there arent riots on the streets or lynchings in the boondocks.
Immigration was an issue for the consequences it was seen to be having. Lower wages, overstretched services, social change packed in to small areas. We can all advance our yes no theories on whether this was correct or not, but for a big chunk of the population it was their perception. The politicians in situ responded to concerns by ignoring them, putting no countermeasures in places and then then demonising those who raised the issues. Mainstream politicians got Farage because they deserved him.
Regardless of the effects on London this will bring a certain amusement to millions of people living elsewhere:
Thousands of Extinction Rebellion (XR) activists are planning to shut down parts of central London for at least two weeks in October to demand governments take urgent action to tackle the climate crisis.
Organisers say the next round of protests, centred around parliament and surrounding government departments, will be bigger than those in April, when Extinction Rebellion activists brought key sites across the capital to a standstill for two weeks and more than 1,000 people were arrested.
What an absolute drama queen she is. Totally lost the plot and her God complex has gone crazy. Time her parents took her away and sent her back to school. Total breakdown on the horizon.
Greta is a star, but a fragile one. She is after all a child. The UN know already what the issues are, they have just chosen to ignore them. Frankie Boyle is right.
There is value in stating your case clearly to people who are not interested in listening. Other people may be listening, and they may choose to act.
I do not think that Ms Thunberg believes that the politicians at the UN will suddenly start acting on their knowledge as she thinks necessary, but I think that she hopes that non-politicians the world over will be listening, and will choose to join future protests, to create the political pressure that politicians will have to respond to - or be swept aside by.
The problem with this is that Macron put up fuel taxes to help the environment and it spawned the gilets jaunes. In theory, people may pay lip service to the idea that economic growth is bad, but in reality no-one is going to tolerate being signficantly poorer. Any attempts to stop global warming through making people poorer is doomed to failure. Technology has to be the answer.
I'm not sure I said any thing about making people poorer. There are ways to increase carbon taxes that are redistributive, for example the tax and dividend plan pushed by Hansen.
In any case, the whole point of of public campaigning on this issue is to push it higher up people's list of priorities. We've seen with brexit that people will vote to make themselves poorer, if they value what they hope to receive in exchange more highly.
I've really enjoyed the Mirror Universe saga over the summer - Johnson getting smashed on every vote, the resurrection of the LibDems, the did he lie to the Queen saga which gets resolved in today's episode, the brilliant Labour Party conference parody. I assume though that at some point Zarniwoop will tire of the alternate universe and return to his office on Ursa Minor Beta.
Will we find the real world a let down in comparison to the satirical alternative we're all still enjoying?
Speak for yourself RP, but I ain't enjoying this. It's a tragedy and a disgrace that's smashing our country to pieces.
Likewise. Amusing though @Cyclefree's header is this has been miserable and has done real damage to our country whatever the outcome.
Any outcome from here is bad. Whatever contortions parliament goes through we end up with something, a country, that is damaged.
I have no idea what any solution would comprise.
And what will happen? Brexitcast like the rest of us had it right we just don't know.
The current shake up has been on the cards for quite some time for those who bothered to look. The politicos have ignored all the warning signs and continued as normal. A new consensus will emerge but it wont be quick.
If the shake up was going to addres.
If it is respected - a big IF, given the behaviour of Remainers - Brexit will give many millions of people a sense of agency. A feeling that, when it REALLY mattered, their vote counted, because Britain is a democracy. This is of incalculable value. Worth far more than 2% of GDP or whatever. No one is ignored, no matter how poor or humble.
Remainers don’t understand this because they have never felt ignored. They would throw this prize away because they are selfish, stupid and nasty.
I don't detect a great sense of agency from Leavers. If so, they would be energised to deliver a successful outcome to their own project, instead of blaming Remainers and others for the failure to deliver something they never believed in and which Leavers refused to own.
I take your point in general but it doesn't apply here. The whole point of sovereignty is you do something with it.
Leavers still expect their politicians to deliver on their democratic promise. The anger will only be visible if the politicians, egged on by Remainer morons, fail in that delivery. We approach a perilous moment.
I've really enjoyed the Mirror Universe saga over the summer - Johnson getting smashed on every vote, the resurrection of the LibDems, the did he lie to the Queen saga which gets resolved in today's episode, the brilliant Labour Party conference parody. I assume though that at some point Zarniwoop will tire of the alternate universe and return to his office on Ursa Minor Beta.
Will we find the real world a let down in comparison to the satirical alternative we're all still enjoying?
Speak for yourself RP, but I ain't enjoying this. It's a tragedy and a disgrace that's smashing our country to pieces.
Likewise. Amusing though @Cyclefree's header is this has been miserable and has done real damage to our country whatever the outcome.
Any outcome from here is bad. Whatever contortions parliament goes through we end up with something, a country, that is damaged.
I have no idea what any solution would comprise.
And what will happen? Brexitcast like the rest of us had it right we just don't know.
The current shake up has been on the cards for quite some time for those who bothered to look. The politicos have ignored all the warning signs and continued as normal. A new consensus will emerge but it wont be quick.
If the shake up was going to address that pent up frustration then I would perhaps see some merit in that view. But Brexit was simply getting a bollocking from your boss at work, coming home, and kicking the dog.
It will solve nothing for those most in need.
If it is respected - a big IF, given the behaviour of Remainers - Brexit will give many millions of people a sense of agency. A feeling that, when it REALLY mattered, their vote counted, because Britain is a democracy. This is of incalculable value. Worth far more than 2% of GDP or whatever. No one is ignored, no matter how poor or humble.
Remainers don’t understand this because they have never felt ignored. They would throw this prize away because they are selfish, stupid and nasty.
Oh I get the democracy fact. The problem is that leavers are, by definition, morons (Brexiter has come to be used as urban slang as I'm sure you realise). Hence whatever nuances of democracy are involved will be lost on them. Because they are idiots.
If today is a Leaver day for you then you, likewise, are a moron and idiot. If you are having a remainer day then you will understand this.
No Boris won't vote for Corbyn as PM diehard Remainer MPs will but Corbyn as PM post extension is a Tory dream in Labour Leave seats while Remainers will still not trust Corbyn either after Labour refused to commit to back Remain this week
Boris doesn’t need to vote for Corbyn. If he resigns, Corbyn will probably be appointed. If he doesn’t resign, he will be forced to extend.
Snookered.
Boris will resign as PM rather than extend and take the Tories into opposition
Swinson and the LDs and Independents and anti No Deal Tory rebels likely vote down Corbyn as PM anyway but in the unlikely event Corbyn becomes PM and extends himself watch the Labour Leave seats fall to the Tories and Brexit Party like skittles at the next general election.
Snookered
There are no skittles in snooker. You are thinking of bar billiards. It is just about possible that an agreeable (to Corbyn, Swinson and Clarke) price for supporting a strictly splash-and-dash, extension and election, Labour minority government is a different PM, and if this looks likely (big if) that could be Laura Pidcock, Rebecca Long-Bailey or Dawn Butler (who I do not think is even quoted by the satchel-swingers).
Given the hung parliament and the rejection of the Withdrawal Agreement 3 times by MPs the EU should have realised it takes 2 to tango and given the only Brexit solution to have got a majority in the Commons is the Withdrawal Agreement minus the backstop which Boris also wants if they are not going to move towards that No further progress will be made unless there is a general election and a change in the Commons arithmetic
Not this comment again.
He is actually right though, as long as you don’t infer from it that the EU have done anything wrong. Under current Parliamentary arithmetic it is probably their only option to avert no deal or endless extensions.
No deal without parliamentary consent is illegal remember.
So endless extension it is then without a Tory majority which suits the EU fine I suspect which is why they will not agree to the Withdrawal Agreement and a technical solution for the Irish border unless the Tories win a majority and No Deal is a real threat
I thought you said a Tory majority government would allow Boris to agree a Northern Ireland-only backstop?
Not impossible if it does not need DUP support but it would certainly remove the GB backstop
Regardless of the effects on London this will bring a certain amusement to millions of people living elsewhere:
Thousands of Extinction Rebellion (XR) activists are planning to shut down parts of central London for at least two weeks in October to demand governments take urgent action to tackle the climate crisis.
Organisers say the next round of protests, centred around parliament and surrounding government departments, will be bigger than those in April, when Extinction Rebellion activists brought key sites across the capital to a standstill for two weeks and more than 1,000 people were arrested.
Long Bailey isn't wonderful but she's miles better than Laura Pidcock. Yesterday and to day are the first time I've heard both speak at length. It's possible with time Long Bailey could be quite good. Infinitely more appealing to non cult members than Corbyn. Piddock just sounds like an affected moron. The other disappointment is Keir Starmer (Sir). For someone who reached the heights he did he's very inarticulate
Quite like Rebecca. She’s a smart, well-presented, self-made northern woman. Can improve as you say. Is of the left without being bonkers and can reach out to more moderate voters.
The most viable candidate, probably,
Your most viable candidate is stilll wretched. In a straight fight for left of centre Remainers, Swinson will scoop up the votes.
If it is respected - a big IF, given the behaviour of Remainers - Brexit will give many millions of people a sense of agency. A feeling that, when it REALLY mattered, their vote counted, because Britain is a democracy. This is of incalculable value. Worth far more than 2% of GDP or whatever. No one is ignored, no matter how poor or humble.
Remainers don’t understand this because they have never felt ignored. They would throw this prize away because they are selfish, stupid and nasty.
I would put essentially the same point differently.
If we leave the EU many millions of Britons - regardless of objective reality - will FEEL more sovereign as they go about their daily business.
This is not to be sniffed at.
Seriously, it isn't.
Thing is, even that black hole dense leaver David Davis understood that we were always sovereign. So sadly it is worse for leavers - they will believe they have reclaimed something that they always possessed.
No Boris won't vote for Corbyn as PM diehard Remainer MPs will but Corbyn as PM post extension is a Tory dream in Labour Leave seats while Remainers will still not trust Corbyn either after Labour refused to commit to back Remain this week
Boris doesn’t need to vote for Corbyn. If he resigns, Corbyn will probably be appointed. If he doesn’t resign, he will be forced to extend.
Snookered.
Boris will resign as PM rather than extend and take the Tories into opposition
Swinson and the LDs and Independents and anti No Deal Tory rebels likely vote down Corbyn as PM anyway but in the unlikely event Corbyn becomes PM and extends himself watch the Labour Leave seats fall to the Tories and Brexit Party like skittles at the next general election.
Snookered
There are no skittles in snooker. You are thinking of bar billiards. It is just about possible that an agreeable (to Corbyn, Swinson and Clarke) price for supporting a strictly splash-and-dash, extension and election, Labour minority government is a different PM, and if this looks likely (big if) that could be Laura Pidcock, Rebecca Long-Bailey or Dawn Butler (who I do not think is even quoted by the satchel-swingers).
Which still costs Labour Leave seats if they extend
Likewise. Amusing though @Cyclefree's header is this has been miserable and has done real damage to our country whatever the outcome.
Any outcome from here is bad. Whatever contortions parliament goes through we end up with something, a country, that is damaged.
I have no idea what any solution would comprise.
And what will happen? Brexitcast like the rest of us had it right we just don't know.
I've done my mourning some time ago.
As to what the solution will comprise, there will be no solution until Remainers accept that they have lost and Leavers accept that Brexit has been a disaster. Neither of those conditions has been met yet, nor will they be for a long time. So just settle back and enjoy the decline.
A disaster for whom ?
For our politicians and government establishment in general that might be right.
And its no bad thing that they are revealed to be not for purpose.
But out in the real world where is the disaster ?
The economy continues to trundle along, unemployment has fallen, pay has risen and housing is both being built and becoming more affordable.
The recession we were told would immediately happen didn't, the City hasn't relocated to Frankfurt and the crops have not rotted in the fields
We haven’t left the EU yet mate.
We were told that there would be an immediate four quarter recession following a Leave vote.
And we were told that the City would be relocating to Frankfurt with endless thousand job losses.
And we were told that the crops were rotting in the fields.
And all of those were wrong.
So where is the 'disaster' out in the real world ?
Is it hiding behind all the new houses and new restaurants and new cinemas which are being built
We were also told that we hold all the cards and that they need us more than we need them and that it would be the easiest deal in history. What’s your point?
If you read what I wrote you would see my point.
I'm asking where the 'disaster' is out in the real world.
Now if we want some progress then the fanatics on one side should admit that their talk of 'lucrative trade deals' and 'walls of money' were bollox and the fanatics on the other side should admit their talk of 'City relocating to Frankfurt' and 'crops rotting in the fields' were bollox.
You’re the only one talking about disasters.
Once again you aren't reading what people wrote.
It was AM who said 'disaster' in his comment at 8:13.
I've really enjoyed the Mirror Universe saga over the summer - Johnson getting smashed on every vote, the resurrection of the LibDems, the did he lie to the Queen saga which gets resolved in today's episode, the brilliant Labour Party conference parody. I assume though that at some point Zarniwoop will tire of the alternate universe and return to his office on Ursa Minor Beta.
Will we find the real world a let down in comparison to the satirical alternative we're all still enjoying?
Speak for yourself RP, but I ain't enjoying this. It's a tragedy and a disgrace that's smashing our country to pieces.
Likewise. Amusing though @Cyclefree's header is this has been miserable and has done real damage to our country whatever the outcome.
Any outcome from here is bad. Whatever contortions parliament goes through we end up with something, a country, that is damaged.
I have no idea what any solution would comprise.
And what will happen? Brexitcast like the rest of us had it right we just don't know.
The current shake up has been on the cards for quite some time for those who bothered to look. The politicos have ignored all the warning signs and continued as normal. A new consensus will emerge but it wont be quick.
If the shake up was going to address that pent up frustration then I would perhaps see some merit in that view. But Brexit was simply getting a bollocking from your boss at work, coming home, and kicking the dog.
It will solve nothing for those most in need.
If it is respected - a big IF, given the behaviour of Remainers - Brexit will give many millions of people a sense of agency. A feeling that, when it REALLY mattered, their vote counted, because Britain is a democracy. This is of incalculable value. Worth far more than 2% of GDP or whatever. No one is ignored, no matter how poor or humble.
Remainers don’t understand this because they have never felt ignored. They would throw this prize away because they are selfish, stupid and nasty.
Oh I get the democracy fact. The problem is that leavers are, by definition, morons (Brexiter has come to be used as urban slang as I'm sure you realise). Hence whatever nuances of democracy are involved will be lost on them. Because they are idiots.
If today is a Leaver day for you then you, likewise, are a moron and idiot. If you are having a remainer day then you will understand this.
There wasn’t any point in posting that, was there? It just embarrasses you.
"Xenophobic lies" is a statement of fact, and one of the most important facts of the last decade. The manner in which the referendum was won was disastrous. Leavers have been trapped by the inexorable logic of the mandate they won.
really it isnt.
This is simply your take on people you have made little effort to understand. The UK remains one of the least racist places on the planet.
It's amazing that I can have made the point so many times and yet you still don't understand it. The campaign was founded and won on xenophobic lies. You seem to think I'm labelling all the people who voted.
The disaster was when a bunch of affluent reactionaries decided that it was worth pandering to xenophobia to win the vote to indulge their own mad prejudices, not realising or caring what that would mean after the vote was won.
bar some arseholes. the country continues to welcome thousands of people to live and work here, there arent riots on the streets or lynchings in the boondocks.
Immigration was an issue for the consequences it was seen to be having. Lower wages, overstretched services, social change packed in to small areas. We can all advance our yes no theories on whether this was correct or not, but for a big chunk of the population it was their perception. The politicians in situ responded to concerns by ignoring them, putting no countermeasures in places and then then demonising those who raised the issues. Mainstream politicians got Farage because they deserved him.
And still you miss the point. The framing of the post-referendum debate about how Leave must be implemented was set - correctly - by the referendum campaign. And it turns out, when you negotiate with red lines as set by that referendum campaign, you end up with a deal that is utterly detested by all and sundry.
That leads us directly to the current impasse, where one side wants to press ahead with a no deal Brexit, even if that results in us all eating grass, and the other side wants to call the whole thing off, waking up to Bobby Ewing in the shower. Neither side is anywhere near ready to make nice with the other. Nor will it be, until Remain confronts the fact that it lost and Leave confronts the fact that the whole premise on which the referendum was won has led to this disaster. But we're a long way from that point just yet.
The National Crime Agency (NCA) has said it has found 'no evidence that any criminal offences have been committed' after the Electoral Commission referred allegations against Leave.EU and businessman Arron Banks.
What an absolute drama queen she is. Totally lost the plot and her God complex has gone crazy. Time her parents took her away and sent her back to school. Total breakdown on the horizon.
Greta is a star, but a fragile one. She is after all a child. The UN know already what the issues are, they have just chosen to ignore them. Frankie Boyle is right.
There is value in stating your case clearly to people who are not interested in listening. Other people may be listening, and they may choose to act.
I do not think that Ms Thunberg believes that the politicians at the UN will suddenly start acting on their knowledge as she thinks necessary, but I think that she hopes that non-politicians the world over will be listening, and will choose to join future protests, to create the political pressure that politicians will have to respond to - or be swept aside by.
The problem with this is that Macron put up fuel taxes to help the environment and it spawned the gilets jaunes. In theory, people may pay lip service to the idea that economic growth is bad, but in reality no-one is going to tolerate being signficantly poorer. Any attempts to stop global warming through making people poorer is doomed to failure. Technology has to be the answer.
I'm not sure I said any thing about making people poorer. There are ways to increase carbon taxes that are redistributive, for example the tax and dividend plan pushed by Hansen.
In any case, the whole point of of public campaigning on this issue is to push it higher up people's list of priorities. We've seen with brexit that people will vote to make themselves poorer, if they value what they hope to receive in exchange more highly.
I don’t think anybody thought they were voting to make themselves poorer as they were told the opposite by those making the leave case.
Neither side is anywhere near ready to make nice with the other. Nor will it be, until Remain confronts the fact that it lost and Leave confronts the fact that the whole premise on which the referendum was won has led to this disaster. But we're a long way from that point just yet.
That's the problem
Why should the remain side accept it lost to a campaign that won on an impossible premise?
No Boris won't vote for Corbyn as PM diehard Remainer MPs will but Corbyn as PM post extension is a Tory dream in Labour Leave seats while Remainers will still not trust Corbyn either after Labour refused to commit to back Remain this week
Boris doesn’t need to vote for Corbyn. If he resigns, Corbyn will probably be appointed. If he doesn’t resign, he will be forced to extend.
Snookered.
Boris will resign as PM rather than extend and take the Tories into opposition
Swinson and the LDs and Independents and anti No Deal Tory rebels likely vote down Corbyn as PM anyway but in the unlikely event Corbyn becomes PM and extends himself watch the Labour Leave seats fall to the Tories and Brexit Party like skittles at the next general election.
Snookered
There are no skittles in snooker. You are thinking of bar billiards. It is just about possible that an agreeable (to Corbyn, Swinson and Clarke) price for supporting a strictly splash-and-dash, extension and election, Labour minority government is a different PM, and if this looks likely (big if) that could be Laura Pidcock, Rebecca Long-Bailey or Dawn Butler (who I do not think is even quoted by the satchel-swingers).
Which still costs Labour Leave seats if they extend
That is a separate point but there were polls showing Labour leavers are not as obsessed by Brexit as their Tory peers. This is consistent with Labour out-performing the polls at GE2017 and Peterborough.
1) the government resigns 2) the Queen takes soundings as to who might command the confidence of the Commons 3) the Queen selects someone and appoints him or her as Prime Minister 4) the Conservatives have to decide whether to seek a vote of no confidence in that person 5a) they don’t and that person is Prime Minister indefinitely 5b) they do, the vote fails and that person is Prime Minister indefinitely 5c) they do, the vote succeeds and we enter a 14 day period to find someone else
Thanks.
If she is not reassured there is an alternative that commands confidence does she just keep throwing mud at the wall and letting MPs vote down the options?
Or can she refuse to invite an alternative and instead suggest a GE?
The Queen will appoint a Prime Minister. In the absence of anyone likely to command the confidence of the Commons, she will almost certainly call Jeremy Corbyn as the leader of the second party if the first party has stepped aside.
So to answer the question I understand you to be asking, there would be a Prime Minister who would have to comply with the recently-passed Act.
Swinson and the LDs would vote down PM Corbyn though as would Tory rebels so after a number of votes we would probably end up with PM Ken Clarke or Oliver Letwin or Harriet Harman or Hilary Benn purely to extend
The appointed PM would be obliged to make the request to extend and the deadline might require him/her to do so before rather than after losing a vote of confidence. After then losing a VONC, with the request having been made, I can't see any other appointed PM subsequently carrying a vote of confidence in the 14 days. Bercow would probably contrive something in the 14 day period to ensure that the EU's terms were accepted. Then the GE would follow.
Neither side is anywhere near ready to make nice with the other. Nor will it be, until Remain confronts the fact that it lost and Leave confronts the fact that the whole premise on which the referendum was won has led to this disaster. But we're a long way from that point just yet.
That's the problem
Why should the remain side accept it lost to a campaign that won on an impossible premise?
Dear gods. Listen to yourself. Parse that sentence, and hang your head in shame.
There wasn’t any point in posting that, was there? It just embarrasses you.
I know if someone is an idiot then one is not supposed to tell them, but rather to give them some crayons and paper to keep them occupied but this is a political blog so I felt it appropriate to point it out to you.
Major methodology changes to the government borrowing data re student loans and public sector pensions:
In the latest full financial year (April 2018 to March 2019), the overall impact of the methodology and data changes introduced this month have led to a £17.8 billion increase in borrowing and a £29.3 billion decrease in net debt at the end of March 2019 but have had no effect on net cash requirement.
The revised treatment of student loans following methodology and data changes increased borrowing by £12.4 billion but had had no impact on net debt.
The revised treatment of pensions following methodology and data changes increased borrowing by £1.3 billion and reduced debt by £28.6 billion.
No Boris won't vote for Corbyn as PM diehard Remainer MPs will but Corbyn as PM post extension is a Tory dream in Labour Leave seats while Remainers will still not trust Corbyn either after Labour refused to commit to back Remain this week
Boris doesn’t need to vote for Corbyn. If he resigns, Corbyn will probably be appointed. If he doesn’t resign, he will be forced to extend.
Snookered.
Boris will resign as PM rather than extend and take the Tories into opposition
Swinson and the LDs and Independents and anti No Deal Tory rebels likely vote down Corbyn as PM anyway but in the unlikely event Corbyn becomes PM and extends himself watch the Labour Leave seats fall to the Tories and Brexit Party like skittles at the next general election.
Snookered
There are no skittles in snooker. You are thinking of bar billiards. It is just about possible that an agreeable (to Corbyn, Swinson and Clarke) price for supporting a strictly splash-and-dash, extension and election, Labour minority government is a different PM, and if this looks likely (big if) that could be Laura Pidcock, Rebecca Long-Bailey or Dawn Butler (who I do not think is even quoted by the satchel-swingers).
A splash and dash extension is pretty useless.
It allows election followed by:
Revoke, No Deal or pre negotiated WA.
Where are we now? Revoke, No Deal or WA.
For election and referendum extend by a minimum of 7 months For election and renegotiate extend for a minimum of 10 months For election renegotiate and referendum extend for a minimum of 16 months
All assuming the election creates a decisive result.
What an absolute drama queen she is. Totally lost the plot and her God complex has gone crazy. Time her parents took her away and sent her back to school. Total breakdown on the horizon.
Greta is a star, but a fragile one. She is after all a child. The UN know already what the issues are, they have just chosen to ignore them. Frankie Boyle is right.
There is value in stating your case clearly to people who are not interested in listening. Other people may be listening, and they may choose to act.
I do not think that Ms Thunberg believes that the politicians at the UN will suddenly start acting on their knowledge as she thinks necessary, but I think that she hopes that non-politicians the world over will be listening, and will choose to join future protests, to create the political pressure that politicians will have to respond to - or be swept aside by.
The problem with this is that Macron put up fuel taxes to help the environment and it spawned the gilets jaunes. In theory, people may pay lip service to the idea that economic growth is bad, but in reality no-one is going to tolerate being signficantly poorer. Any attempts to stop global warming through making people poorer is doomed to failure. Technology has to be the answer.
I'm not sure I said any thing about making people poorer. There are ways to increase carbon taxes that are redistributive, for example the tax and dividend plan pushed by Hansen.
In any case, the whole point of of public campaigning on this issue is to push it higher up people's list of priorities. We've seen with brexit that people will vote to make themselves poorer, if they value what they hope to receive in exchange more highly.
I don’t think anybody thought they were voting to make themselves poorer as they were told the opposite by those making the leave case.
We're gonna save loads of money getting rid of the foreigners blocking up our hospitals.
Think how much more roomy our hospitals would be without all those foreign born doctors and nurses getting in the way, also the money we save on all their wages.
No Boris won't vote for Corbyn as PM diehard Remainer MPs will but Corbyn as PM post extension is a Tory dream in Labour Leave seats while Remainers will still not trust Corbyn either after Labour refused to commit to back Remain this week
Boris doesn’t need to vote for Corbyn. If he resigns, Corbyn will probably be appointed. If he doesn’t resign, he will be forced to extend.
Snookered.
Boris will resign as PM rather than extend and take the Tories into opposition
Swinson and the LDs and Independents and anti No Deal Tory rebels likely vote down Corbyn as PM anyway but in the unlikely event Corbyn becomes PM and extends himself watch the Labour Leave seats fall to the Tories and Brexit Party like skittles at the next general election.
Snookered
There are no skittles in snooker. You are thinking of bar billiards. It is just about possible that an agreeable (to Corbyn, Swinson and Clarke) price for supporting a strictly splash-and-dash, extension and election, Labour minority government is a different PM, and if this looks likely (big if) that could be Laura Pidcock, Rebecca Long-Bailey or Dawn Butler (who I do not think is even quoted by the satchel-swingers).
A splash and dash extension is pretty useless.
It allows election followed by:
Revoke, No Deal or pre negotiated WA.
Where are we now? Revoke, No Deal or WA.
For election and referendum extend by a minimum of 7 months For election and renegotiate extend for a minimum of 10 months For election renegotiate and referendum extend for a minimum of 16 months
All assuming the election creates a decisive result.
Which is why the EU should grant us no further extensions.
"Xenophobic lies" is a statement of fact, and one of the most important facts of the last decade. The manner in which the referendum was won was disastrous. Leavers have been trapped by the inexorable logic of the mandate they won.
really it isnt.
This is simply your take on people you have made little effort to understand. The UK remains one of the least racist places on the planet.
It's amazing that I can have made the point so many times and yet you still don't understand it. The campaign was founded and won on xenophobic lies. You seem to think I'm labelling all the people who voted.
The disaster was when a bunch of affluent reactionaries decided that it was worth pandering to xenophobia to win the vote to indulge their own mad prejudices, not realising or caring what that would mean after the vote was won.
How valid would a remain victory have been if the same alleged xenophobic lies had not been told, and the racists had accordingly voted remain?
Did I say the Leave victory was not valid? I said it was disastrous because of the way in which it was won.
How disastrous would a remain victory have been, had it rested on the inertia voting of the racists
I asked this before, but missed if there was an answer. If the prorogation is ruled invalid, what are the consequences for the extension bill, that was passed as part of the prorogation formalities?
That's one of the ones that would be voided...
Voided, or just awaiting royal assent?
According to the news reports I can find at the time the Benn Act received Royal Assent hours before the prorogation took effect, not as part of the prorogation ceremony. So then it would be unaffected by the Supreme Court judgement.
What an absolute drama queen she is. Totally lost the plot and her God complex has gone crazy. Time her parents took her away and sent her back to school. Total breakdown on the horizon.
Greta is a star, but a fragile one. She is after all a child. The UN know already what the issues are, they have just chosen to ignore them. Frankie Boyle is right.
There is value in stating your case clearly to people who are not interested in listening. Other people may be listening, and they may choose to act.
I do not think that Ms Thunberg believes that the politicians at the UN will suddenly start acting on their knowledge as she thinks necessary, but I think that she hopes that non-politicians the world over will be listening, and will choose to join future protests, to create the political pressure that politicians will have to respond to - or be swept aside by.
The problem with this is that Macron put up fuel taxes to help the environment and it spawned the gilets jaunes. In theory, people may pay lip service to the idea that economic growth is bad, but in reality no-one is going to tolerate being signficantly poorer. Any attempts to stop global warming through making people poorer is doomed to failure. Technology has to be the answer.
I'm not sure I said any thing about making people poorer. There are ways to increase carbon taxes that are redistributive, for example the tax and dividend plan pushed by Hansen.
In any case, the whole point of of public campaigning on this issue is to push it higher up people's list of priorities. We've seen with brexit that people will vote to make themselves poorer, if they value what they hope to receive in exchange more highly.
I don’t think anybody thought they were voting to make themselves poorer as they were told the opposite by those making the leave case.
This is why Boris wants an election before Brexit, before Leave voters do become poorer and blame him.
Whatever the outcome of this court case, I find it depressing that we have ended up in this situation, whereby a massive legal case is deciding this issue rather than parliament.
But the court is just deciding what the law *is*. Parliament can change it if they don’t like it.
What an absolute drama queen she is. Totally lost the plot and her God complex has gone crazy. Time her parents took her away and sent her back to school. Total breakdown on the horizon.
Greta is a star, but a fragile one. She is after all a child. The UN know already what the issues are, they have just chosen to ignore them. Frankie Boyle is right.
There is value in stating your case clearly to people who are not interested in listening. Other people may be listening, and they may choose to act.
I do not think that Ms Thunberg believes that the politicians at the UN will suddenly start acting on their knowledge as she thinks necessary, but I think that she hopes that non-politicians the world over will be listening, and will choose to join future protests, to create the political pressure that politicians will have to respond to - or be swept aside by.
The problem with this is that Macron put up fuel taxes to help the environment and it spawned the gilets jaunes. In theory, people may pay lip service to the idea that economic growth is bad, but in reality no-one is going to tolerate being signficantly poorer. Any attempts to stop global warming through making people poorer is doomed to failure. Technology has to be the answer.
I'm not sure I said any thing about making people poorer. There are ways to increase carbon taxes that are redistributive, for example the tax and dividend plan pushed by Hansen.
In any case, the whole point of of public campaigning on this issue is to push it higher up people's list of priorities. We've seen with brexit that people will vote to make themselves poorer, if they value what they hope to receive in exchange more highly.
I don’t think anybody thought they were voting to make themselves poorer as they were told the opposite by those making the leave case.
We're gonna save loads of money getting rid of the foreigners blocking up our hospitals.
Think how much more roomy our hospitals would be without all those foreign born doctors and nurses getting in the way, also the money we save on all their wages.
The number of foreign, non-EU nurses in the UK has doubled in a year.
Comments
By far the worst thing on that list is the thing you gloss over. "Boris's Parliamentary tricks" was, I take it, your way of referring to the suspension of Parliamentary democracy. This thing is not like the other things.
For our politicians and government establishment in general that might be right.
And its no bad thing that they are revealed to be not for purpose.
But out in the real world where is the disaster ?
The economy continues to trundle along, unemployment has fallen, pay has risen and housing is both being built and becoming more affordable.
The recession we were told would immediately happen didn't, the City hasn't relocated to Frankfurt and the crops have not rotted in the fields
Not a comfotable interview for her at all.
See, for example, https://metro.co.uk/2019/09/09/no-deal-brexit-officially-blocked-law-10711993/
What is our politics atm? Tragedy? Comedy? Farce?
Perhaps all three in equal proportion.
To add to it, here is my prediction of today's SC verdict. It is based on no legal knowledge whatsoever and having not listened to a word of the hearing -
This prorogation by Boris Johnson is NOT unlawful.
4D chess.
It will solve nothing for those most in need.
Pete Buttigieg far left?
Really?
@kle4
I've seen people define it but it is generally used fairly vaguely.
@edmundintokyo
Not forgetting crazies like the IMF...
https://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/fandd/2016/06/ostry.htm
I'll happily accept the word is used in a very vague way by plenty of people, if you took everyones use of it and tried to come up with a definition you would end up with nonsense. Exactly the same would happen for most political labels though. This doesn't mean the word doesn't exist or that people who use it are somehow crazy...
This is simply your take on people you have made little effort to understand. The UK remains one of the least racist places on the planet.
https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1176403706780233728?s=21
Remainers don’t understand this because they have never felt ignored. They would throw this prize away because they are selfish, stupid and nasty.
And we were told that the City would be relocating to Frankfurt with endless thousand job losses.
And we were told that the crops were rotting in the fields.
And all of those were wrong.
So where is the 'disaster' out in the real world ?
Is it hiding behind all the new houses and new restaurants and new cinemas which are being built
UK politicans have the chance to reposition themselves from the set up of the last two decades and seek an electoral mandate. Currently we are probably being spoilt by the full range of political options being laid in front of us which is the complete reverse of the samieness of Balir\Cameron years. From that maelstrom a new settlement may emerge.
The risk is the stupid politicos will simply seek to nobble electoral ferment and put a bigger lid on the pressure cooker. If that happens we could end up anywhere.
He presumably doesn’t even have the traditional gin excuse at this time of day, unless posting from a bar in Australia?
It’s coming!
The disaster was when a bunch of affluent reactionaries decided that it was worth pandering to xenophobia to win the vote to indulge their own mad prejudices, not realising or caring what that would mean after the vote was won.
The most viable candidate, probably,
I'm asking where the 'disaster' is out in the real world.
Now if we want some progress then the fanatics on one side should admit that their talk of 'lucrative trade deals' and 'walls of money' were bollox and the fanatics on the other side should admit their talk of 'City relocating to Frankfurt' and 'crops rotting in the fields' were bollox.
If we leave the EU many millions of Britons - regardless of objective reality - will FEEL more sovereign as they go about their daily business.
This is not to be sniffed at.
Seriously, it isn't.
Heady days .....
Swinson and the LDs and Independents and anti No Deal Tory rebels likely vote down Corbyn as PM anyway but in the unlikely event Corbyn becomes PM and extends himself watch the Labour Leave seats fall to the Tories and Brexit Party like skittles at the next general election.
Snookered
A market is nothing special to the average person - if you don't like one you can shop at another.
The C4 movie, Brexit, the Uncivil War, which I watched the other day, is very good on this. All the Remainers are boring and inert.
With less of the "I blame the EU' or "the government should do something" or "its someone else's problem".
With beneficial consequences to the economy and environment.
I take your point in general but it doesn't apply here. The whole point of sovereignty is you do something with it.
*Me, at least.
Immigration was an issue for the consequences it was seen to be having. Lower wages, overstretched services, social change packed in to small areas. We can all advance our yes no theories on whether this was correct or not, but for a big chunk of the population it was their perception. The politicians in situ responded to concerns by ignoring them, putting no countermeasures in places and then then demonising those who raised the issues. Mainstream politicians got Farage because they deserved him.
Thousands of Extinction Rebellion (XR) activists are planning to shut down parts of central London for at least two weeks in October to demand governments take urgent action to tackle the climate crisis.
Organisers say the next round of protests, centred around parliament and surrounding government departments, will be bigger than those in April, when Extinction Rebellion activists brought key sites across the capital to a standstill for two weeks and more than 1,000 people were arrested.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/sep/23/extinction-rebellion-plans-new-london-shutdowns-over-climate-crisis
In any case, the whole point of of public campaigning on this issue is to push it higher up people's list of priorities. We've seen with brexit that people will vote to make themselves poorer, if they value what they hope to receive in exchange more highly.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/nyse-owner-to-launch-long-awaited-bitcoin-futures-11569153649
If today is a Leaver day for you then you, likewise, are a moron and idiot. If you are having a remainer day then you will understand this.
It was AM who said 'disaster' in his comment at 8:13.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8BPP4ASQWo
(any excuse)
The Supreme Court are not Pop Master aficionados.
That leads us directly to the current impasse, where one side wants to press ahead with a no deal Brexit, even if that results in us all eating grass, and the other side wants to call the whole thing off, waking up to Bobby Ewing in the shower. Neither side is anywhere near ready to make nice with the other. Nor will it be, until Remain confronts the fact that it lost and Leave confronts the fact that the whole premise on which the referendum was won has led to this disaster. But we're a long way from that point just yet.
Why should the remain side accept it lost to a campaign that won on an impossible premise?
In the latest full financial year (April 2018 to March 2019), the overall impact of the methodology and data changes introduced this month have led to a £17.8 billion increase in borrowing and a £29.3 billion decrease in net debt at the end of March 2019 but have had no effect on net cash requirement.
The revised treatment of student loans following methodology and data changes increased borrowing by £12.4 billion but had had no impact on net debt.
The revised treatment of pensions following methodology and data changes increased borrowing by £1.3 billion and reduced debt by £28.6 billion.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/governmentpublicsectorandtaxes/publicsectorfinance/bulletins/publicsectorfinances/august2019#revisions-since-the-previous-release
It allows election followed by:
Revoke, No Deal or pre negotiated WA.
Where are we now? Revoke, No Deal or WA.
For election and referendum extend by a minimum of 7 months
For election and renegotiate extend for a minimum of 10 months
For election renegotiate and referendum extend for a minimum of 16 months
All assuming the election creates a decisive result.
See 'Google wins case to keep right to be forgotten EU only' in the Guardian.
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/sep/24/victory-for-google-in-landmark-right-to-be-forgotten-case
Think how much more roomy our hospitals would be without all those foreign born doctors and nurses getting in the way, also the money we save on all their wages.
"We've had more positions than the Kamasutra."
Orgasmic ....
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/05/07/number-foreign-nurses-coming/
Otherwise, good point.