Support is only tested by a vote of no confidence.
I'm not sure i'm understanding.
Are you saying that my suggested scenario of the government resigning and then Tories+others blocking any alternative isn't possible?
I see your suggestion as working as follows:
1) the government resigns 2) the Queen takes soundings as to who might command the confidence of the Commons 3) the Queen selects someone and appoints him or her as Prime Minister 4) the Conservatives have to decide whether to seek a vote of no confidence in that person 5a) they don’t and that person is Prime Minister indefinitely 5b) they do, the vote fails and that person is Prime Minister indefinitely 5c) they do, the vote succeeds and we enter a 14 day period to find someone else
The solution for the prorogation issue is for Parliament, not government, to be responsible for its own closure, except in defined situations where the parliament must be prorogued or must not be prorogued. This requires a change of the law and the Supreme Court rules on the law and not as it should be.
That is still my view. If the prorogation resulted in the breach of an Act of Parliament (like the NI Act) it would be justiciable because it is contrary to law. If it isn't incompatible with legislation then I really struggle to see where the SC gets the rules that would allow it to find the prorogation permissible or not. But as I have reported before this is now a minority view at the Scottish bar at least where the government is expected to lose.
Do you mean there would be insufficient votes against one of the number of options that have been mentioned?
I'm not sure I see a majority for either Corbyn or a GoNU.
The Conservatives would need to force a vote. Remember, Jeremy Corbyn has yet to do so for Boris Johnson. It is more likely than not that the next Prime Minister will also not face an immediate vote of no confidence.
There needs to be a vote of confidence to avert an election.
What an absolute drama queen she is. Totally lost the plot and her God complex has gone crazy. Time her parents took her away and sent her back to school. Total breakdown on the horizon.
Greta is a star, but a fragile one. She is after all a child. The UN know already what the issues are, they have just chosen to ignore them. Frankie Boyle is right.
Many left-wing Democrat activists will read into it what they want to but he hasn’t committed to anything at all.
There were tweets to that effect (the latter part about concrete proposals)
It is just a small win, the first stage is accepting you have a problem, which will require more people to give voice to that problem. Pretty soon those small wins start adding up. The millenials will be more important electorally than the baby boomers soon.
None of that means (as I think you’re hoping) that Buttigieg will impose socialist nirvana.
From his past record, he’s very much an evidence-based policy maker, and creative on implementing solutions too.
You are misunderstanding me. There is a slim chance Buttigieg ever becomes president and if he did I expect I would be to the left of him on decisions.
Whatever the reasons for him making that tweet, it is a good sign. Even if he is the world's biggest neoliberal at heart and he is just pretending*, the fact he feels the need to pretend, also the fact that someone who isn't even one of the most left wing candidates feels the need to pretend. That and him putting the message out there strengthens it, in this nomination race you won't find impassioned defence of neo Liberalism and given the polling on different age groups views that is going to go one way pretty quickly with the Democrats.
Basically I see it as a promising sign things are moving in the right direction, a very small victory but a necessary one.
*I wouldn't assume it to be a complete falsehood but there is a huge of amount of wiggle room in there.
I asked this before, but missed if there was an answer. If the prorogation is ruled invalid, what are the consequences for the extension bill, that was passed as part of the prorogation formalities?
There will be no deal as long as the government is intent on becoming a tax haven and regulatory free for all on the border of the EU, undermining single market rules for the enrichment of American big business.
I suspect that what the SC would like to do is say the Prorogation was lawful, and advise Parliament to change the law so that a case like this can’t come before them ever again.
I asked this before, but missed if there was an answer. If the prorogation is ruled invalid, what are the consequences for the extension bill, that was passed as part of the prorogation formalities?
That's one of the ones that would be voided...
Voided, or just awaiting royal assent?
I think it would be voided. Because it hasn't followed process so it would have to go back and start again. Certainly it would be wide open to legal challenge.
This is one of the reasons I'm very dubious about the judges simply declaring the prorogation void. It would be the ultimate irony if Remainer attempts to stop a no-deal Brexit provoked one, but...
We have a zombie government, an election is imminent. The EU will almost certainly extend to let that happen. So the choice for Labour MPs is to vote for the deal and give the Tories a 10pt boost in the polls, or force an extension that takes 10pts off the Tories and then have an election. They're not stupid.
I did ask this on another thread and may have missed the reply but what is to stop the government resigning and then the Tories blocking a replacement?
The government resigns prior to extension request.
No alternative can command support.
Then what?
I think a lot depends on the 21 in that scenario. Would they be willing to lend Corbyn their support (there really isn't an alternative) just so he can ask for an extension? And, following yesterday's farce, would he?
1) the government resigns 2) the Queen takes soundings as to who might command the confidence of the Commons 3) the Queen selects someone and appoints him or her as Prime Minister 4) the Conservatives have to decide whether to seek a vote of no confidence in that person 5a) they don’t and that person is Prime Minister indefinitely 5b) they do, the vote fails and that person is Prime Minister indefinitely 5c) they do, the vote succeeds and we enter a 14 day period to find someone else
Thanks.
If she is not reassured there is an alternative that commands confidence does she just keep throwing mud at the wall and letting MPs vote down the options?
Or can she refuse to invite an alternative and instead suggest a GE?
I've really enjoyed the Mirror Universe saga over the summer - Johnson getting smashed on every vote, the resurrection of the LibDems, the did he lie to the Queen saga which gets resolved in today's episode, the brilliant Labour Party conference parody. I assume though that at some point Zarniwoop will tire of the alternate universe and return to his office on Ursa Minor Beta.
Will we find the real world a let down in comparison to the satirical alternative we're all still enjoying?
The government resigns prior to extension request.
No alternative can command support.
Then what?
Constitutionally the PM can’t resign unless prepared to nominate a replacement. He would presumably nominate another Conservative. If the PM dies, the responsibility fall to the Cabinet, I think.
I asked this before, but missed if there was an answer. If the prorogation is ruled invalid, what are the consequences for the extension bill, that was passed as part of the prorogation formalities?
That's one of the ones that would be voided...
why would it be voided - the formalities were done in a hurry and could equally be redone without the haste.
I've really enjoyed the Mirror Universe saga over the summer - Johnson getting smashed on every vote, the resurrection of the LibDems, the did he lie to the Queen saga which gets resolved in today's episode, the brilliant Labour Party conference parody. I assume though that at some point Zarniwoop will tire of the alternate universe and return to his office on Ursa Minor Beta.
Will we find the real world a let down in comparison to the satirical alternative we're all still enjoying?
Speak for yourself RP, but I ain't enjoying this. It's a tragedy and a disgrace that's smashing our country to pieces.
What an absolute drama queen she is. Totally lost the plot and her God complex has gone crazy. Time her parents took her away and sent her back to school. Total breakdown on the horizon.
Greta is a star, but a fragile one. She is after all a child. The UN know already what the issues are, they have just chosen to ignore them. Frankie Boyle is right.
The world is a sad depressing place this morning. A world that chews and spits out children.
At some stage the chanting, brinkmanship, blaming and trolling will end and give way to reason, collaboration and progress. But not until the damage is done.
What an absolute drama queen she is. Totally lost the plot and her God complex has gone crazy. Time her parents took her away and sent her back to school. Total breakdown on the horizon.
Greta is a star, but a fragile one. She is after all a child. The UN know already what the issues are, they have just chosen to ignore them. Frankie Boyle is right.
I've really enjoyed the Mirror Universe saga over the summer - Johnson getting smashed on every vote, the resurrection of the LibDems, the did he lie to the Queen saga which gets resolved in today's episode, the brilliant Labour Party conference parody. I assume though that at some point Zarniwoop will tire of the alternate universe and return to his office on Ursa Minor Beta.
Will we find the real world a let down in comparison to the satirical alternative we're all still enjoying?
Where did Netflix find the writers sick enough to come up with this twisted plot? Thank god it’s not real.
Support is only tested by a vote of no confidence.
I'm not sure i'm understanding.
Are you saying that my suggested scenario of the government resigning and then Tories+others blocking any alternative isn't possible?
I see your suggestion as working as follows:
1) the government resigns 2) the Queen takes soundings as to who might command the confidence of the Commons 3) the Queen selects someone and appoints him or her as Prime Minister 4) the Conservatives have to decide whether to seek a vote of no confidence in that person 5a) they don’t and that person is Prime Minister indefinitely 5b) they do, the vote fails and that person is Prime Minister indefinitely 5c) they do, the vote succeeds and we enter a 14 day period to find someone else
I'm not sure that I completely agree with 5c. The way I read the Act if there is not a successful vote of confidence within 14 days of the first VoNC then there is an election. The clock may not start ticking when the government simply resigns but it would when a VoNC is passed. Who or what is our government during that period is far from clear.
What would yet another extension resolve? There's only one reason I can see and that is to delay implementing the referendum and to continue fighting the result.
I see Cameron finally admitted what most people knew. He actively stopped the CS making plans for Brexit.
1) the government resigns 2) the Queen takes soundings as to who might command the confidence of the Commons 3) the Queen selects someone and appoints him or her as Prime Minister 4) the Conservatives have to decide whether to seek a vote of no confidence in that person 5a) they don’t and that person is Prime Minister indefinitely 5b) they do, the vote fails and that person is Prime Minister indefinitely 5c) they do, the vote succeeds and we enter a 14 day period to find someone else
Thanks.
If she is not reassured there is an alternative that commands confidence does she just keep throwing mud at the wall and letting MPs vote down the options?
Or can she refuse to invite an alternative and instead suggest a GE?
The Queen will appoint a Prime Minister. In the absence of anyone likely to command the confidence of the Commons, she will almost certainly call Jeremy Corbyn as the leader of the second party if the first party has stepped aside.
So to answer the question I understand you to be asking, there would be a Prime Minister who would have to comply with the recently-passed Act.
I've really enjoyed the Mirror Universe saga over the summer - Johnson getting smashed on every vote, the resurrection of the LibDems, the did he lie to the Queen saga which gets resolved in today's episode, the brilliant Labour Party conference parody. I assume though that at some point Zarniwoop will tire of the alternate universe and return to his office on Ursa Minor Beta.
Will we find the real world a let down in comparison to the satirical alternative we're all still enjoying?
Speak for yourself RP, but I ain't enjoying this. It's a tragedy and a disgrace that's smashing our country to pieces.
You are misunderstanding me. There is a slim chance Buttigieg ever becomes president and if he did I expect I would be to the left of him on decisions.
Whatever the reasons for him making that tweet, it is a good sign. Even if he is the world's biggest neoliberal at heart and he is just pretending*, the fact he feels the need to pretend, also the fact that someone who isn't even one of the most left wing candidates feels the need to pretend. That and him putting the message out there strengthens it, in this nomination race you won't find impassioned defence of neo Liberalism and given the polling on different age groups views that is going to go one way pretty quickly with the Democrats.
Basically I see it as a promising sign things are moving in the right direction, a very small victory but a necessary one.
*I wouldn't assume it to be a complete falsehood but there is a huge of amount of wiggle room in there.
"Neoliberal" generally doesn't mean anything except to the extent that it's recently been reclaimed enthusiasts of taco vans / open borders / planning liberalization / pigovian taxes, so a candidate claiming to oppose it isn't a sign of anything moving in any direction.
With the Prime Minister in New York and the Supreme Court determining his fate at 10:30am I wonder whether the extradition papers are in place ....
You know, just in case. Oh yes, asking for a friend called Brenda ....
I thought the US didn't extradite their own nationals?
(Yes, I know he's sent back his Yankee passport. It's a joke, OK?)
But .....
Brenda revokes Boris's passport, as a lesser punishment than treason. Donald, through executive order hands Boris back his US passport.
Queen appoints impoverished Scottish peer as new Prime Minister who agrees with the EU that they join the newly formed Commonwealth Economic Union with Brenda as head of state.
I've really enjoyed the Mirror Universe saga over the summer - Johnson getting smashed on every vote, the resurrection of the LibDems, the did he lie to the Queen saga which gets resolved in today's episode, the brilliant Labour Party conference parody. I assume though that at some point Zarniwoop will tire of the alternate universe and return to his office on Ursa Minor Beta.
Will we find the real world a let down in comparison to the satirical alternative we're all still enjoying?
Speak for yourself RP, but I ain't enjoying this. It's a tragedy and a disgrace that's smashing our country to pieces.
Likewise. Amusing though @Cyclefree's header is this has been miserable and has done real damage to our country whatever the outcome.
Looks like a straightforward case of GIGO to me, but I share in case others feel differently.
That’s a good example of my theory that, even though they think they’re not, intelligent people are just as subject to confirmation bias as everyone else but are just able to offer more sophisticated explanations.
The government resigns prior to extension request.
No alternative can command support.
Then what?
I think a lot depends on the 21 in that scenario. Would they be willing to lend Corbyn their support (there really isn't an alternative) just so he can ask for an extension? And, following yesterday's farce, would he?
The govt wont resign whilst BJ is in NY so therefore they arent even considering it.
Do you mean there would be insufficient votes against one of the number of options that have been mentioned?
I'm not sure I see a majority for either Corbyn or a GoNU.
The Conservatives would need to force a vote. Remember, Jeremy Corbyn has yet to do so for Boris Johnson. It is more likely than not that the next Prime Minister will also not face an immediate vote of no confidence.
There needs to be a vote of confidence to avert an election.
Not if the government simply resigned.
Which is surely the most likely scenario?
The PM will refuse to write the letter to the EU on 19th, those opposed to him will seek an injunction somewhere that forces him to do so, and when the legal avenues are all done (25th?) he’ll resign rather than write the letter against his will, telling the Queen he hasn’t a clue who to call next, then it will be up to MPs collectively to find a way of nominating a PM from among themselves.
I had a thought on Time person of the year. Like Sports Personality where there are normally a few contenders, this time it is blindingly obvious (Like Stokes) it'll be Thunberg. The Betway oddsmakers are thinking the same way mind, she's 4-11 there.
I suspect that what the SC would like to do is say the Prorogation was lawful, and advise Parliament to change the law so that a case like this can’t come before them ever again.
Parliament has had centuries to pass such a law. Why the rush?
You are misunderstanding me. There is a slim chance Buttigieg ever becomes president and if he did I expect I would be to the left of him on decisions.
Whatever the reasons for him making that tweet, it is a good sign. Even if he is the world's biggest neoliberal at heart and he is just pretending*, the fact he feels the need to pretend, also the fact that someone who isn't even one of the most left wing candidates feels the need to pretend. That and him putting the message out there strengthens it, in this nomination race you won't find impassioned defence of neo Liberalism and given the polling on different age groups views that is going to go one way pretty quickly with the Democrats.
Basically I see it as a promising sign things are moving in the right direction, a very small victory but a necessary one.
*I wouldn't assume it to be a complete falsehood but there is a huge of amount of wiggle room in there.
"Neoliberal" generally doesn't mean anything except to the extent that it's recently been reclaimed enthusiasts of taco vans / open borders / planning liberalization / pigovian taxes, so a candidate claiming to oppose it isn't a sign of anything moving in any direction.
Neoliberal = A word used by far left wingers to describe anything that they don’t like.
This cup of coffee is neoliberal, it needs more milk.
I had a thought on Time person of the year. Like Sports Personality where there are normally a few contenders, this time it is blindingly obvious (Like Stokes) it'll be Thunberg. The Betway oddsmakers are thinking the same way mind, she's 4-11 there.
I'm surprised that there is even a book this year to be honest.
The government resigns prior to extension request.
No alternative can command support.
Then what?
Under my 5c there is still a government. It just lacks the confidence of the Commons.
It's in a Schrodinger state of uncertainty. Till the confidence is tested the assumption is that Corbyn (& to keep my arguments where I've disagreed with you on this previously consistent), like Johnson, will indeed have the *de jure* confidence of the Commons
Support is only tested by a vote of no confidence.
I'm not sure i'm understanding.
Are you saying that my suggested scenario of the government resigning and then Tories+others blocking any alternative isn't possible?
I see your suggestion as working as follows:
1) the government resigns 2) the Queen takes soundings as to who might command the confidence of the Commons 3) the Queen selects someone and appoints him or her as Prime Minister 4) the Conservatives have to decide whether to seek a vote of no confidence in that person 5a) they don’t and that person is Prime Minister indefinitely 5b) they do, the vote fails and that person is Prime Minister indefinitely 5c) they do, the vote succeeds and we enter a 14 day period to find someone else
I'm not sure that I completely agree with 5c. The way I read the Act if there is not a successful vote of confidence within 14 days of the first VoNC then there is an election. The clock may not start ticking when the government simply resigns but it would when a VoNC is passed. Who or what is our government during that period is far from clear.
I may have not been clear but I think we agree on the timing. The 14 day period starts from the vote of no confidence. The government during that period will be that of the last-appointed Prime Minister. The absence of the confidence of the Commons does not affect who the executive is during that period.
Do you mean there would be insufficient votes against one of the number of options that have been mentioned?
I'm not sure I see a majority for either Corbyn or a GoNU.
The Conservatives would need to force a vote. Remember, Jeremy Corbyn has yet to do so for Boris Johnson. It is more likely than not that the next Prime Minister will also not face an immediate vote of no confidence.
There needs to be a vote of confidence to avert an election.
Not if the government simply resigned.
Which is surely the most likely scenario?
The PM will refuse to write the letter to the EU on 19th, those opposed to him will seek an injunction somewhere that forces him to do so, and when the legal avenues are all done (25th?) he’ll resign rather than write the letter against his will, telling the Queen he hasn’t a clue who to call next, then it will be up to MPs collectively to find a way of nominating a PM from among themselves.
I seem to recall that in the very distant past MP's have been excluded from Parliament for offences against Parliament. In the situation described would it be open to 'an MP' to propose that the member for Uxbridge and S. Ruislip be excluded for contempt?
What an absolute drama queen she is. Totally lost the plot and her God complex has gone crazy. Time her parents took her away and sent her back to school. Total breakdown on the horizon.
Greta is a star, but a fragile one. She is after all a child. The UN know already what the issues are, they have just chosen to ignore them. Frankie Boyle is right.
I've really enjoyed the Mirror Universe saga over the summer - Johnson getting smashed on every vote, the resurrection of the LibDems, the did he lie to the Queen saga which gets resolved in today's episode, the brilliant Labour Party conference parody. I assume though that at some point Zarniwoop will tire of the alternate universe and return to his office on Ursa Minor Beta.
Will we find the real world a let down in comparison to the satirical alternative we're all still enjoying?
Speak for yourself RP, but I ain't enjoying this. It's a tragedy and a disgrace that's smashing our country to pieces.
Likewise. Amusing though @Cyclefree's header is this has been miserable and has done real damage to our country whatever the outcome.
Two options - laugh or cry. I always chose to laugh. This has been a complete prolapse of the body politic, the end times of everything that we understood to be the post Thatcher political settlement to be. I think its ending has been a little overdue but it had to happen and it was always going to be horrendous to watch. At least it has been so coimpletely batshit crazy as to provide some amusement.
Parking Brexit aside for a moment, the separation of the Labour Party from its moderate majority and the separation of the Tories from their moderate minority is heading towards completion. The creation of ChangeUK was a false ending, time will tell whether the resurrection of the LibDems is a false ending or not.
Either way British politics will look very different after this year.
The government resigns prior to extension request.
No alternative can command support.
Then what?
I think a lot depends on the 21 in that scenario. Would they be willing to lend Corbyn their support (there really isn't an alternative) just so he can ask for an extension? And, following yesterday's farce, would he?
The govt wont resign whilst BJ is in NY so therefore they arent even considering it.
Well not yet but I think that his resignation after the EU Summit when any deal he brings back has been voted down and the letter requesting an extension requires to be written is very likely now.
I've really enjoyed the Mirror Universe saga over the summer - Johnson getting smashed on every vote, the resurrection of the LibDems, the did he lie to the Queen saga which gets resolved in today's episode, the brilliant Labour Party conference parody. I assume though that at some point Zarniwoop will tire of the alternate universe and return to his office on Ursa Minor Beta.
Will we find the real world a let down in comparison to the satirical alternative we're all still enjoying?
Speak for yourself RP, but I ain't enjoying this. It's a tragedy and a disgrace that's smashing our country to pieces.
Likewise. Amusing though @Cyclefree's header is this has been miserable and has done real damage to our country whatever the outcome.
Any outcome from here is bad. Whatever contortions parliament goes through we end up with something, a country, that is damaged.
I have no idea what any solution would comprise.
And what will happen? Brexitcast like the rest of us had it right we just don't know.
I've really enjoyed the Mirror Universe saga over the summer - Johnson getting smashed on every vote, the resurrection of the LibDems, the did he lie to the Queen saga which gets resolved in today's episode, the brilliant Labour Party conference parody. I assume though that at some point Zarniwoop will tire of the alternate universe and return to his office on Ursa Minor Beta.
Will we find the real world a let down in comparison to the satirical alternative we're all still enjoying?
Speak for yourself RP, but I ain't enjoying this. It's a tragedy and a disgrace that's smashing our country to pieces.
Likewise. Amusing though @Cyclefree's header is this has been miserable and has done real damage to our country whatever the outcome.
Two options - laugh or cry. I always chose to laugh. This has been a complete prolapse of the body politic, the end times of everything that we understood to be the post Thatcher political settlement to be. I think its ending has been a little overdue but it had to happen and it was always going to be horrendous to watch. At least it has been so coimpletely batshit crazy as to provide some amusement.
Parking Brexit aside for a moment, the separation of the Labour Party from its moderate majority and the separation of the Tories from their moderate minority is heading towards completion. The creation of ChangeUK was a false ending, time will tell whether the resurrection of the LibDems is a false ending or not.
Either way British politics will look very different after this year.
So RP, you left Labour. After this week, you must feel that was the right decision. But where do you see the future? Are you comfortable aligning with the LDs? Asking for a friend. :-)
I suspect that what the SC would like to do is say the Prorogation was lawful, and advise Parliament to change the law so that a case like this can’t come before them ever again.
Parliament has had centuries to pass such a law. Why the rush?
Because usually the government has a majority and therefore none of this would be a problem.
I had a thought on Time person of the year. Like Sports Personality where there are normally a few contenders, this time it is blindingly obvious (Like Stokes) it'll be Thunberg. The Betway oddsmakers are thinking the same way mind, she's 4-11 there.
Greta Thunberg is a best-priced 2/7 for the Nobel Peace Prize so 4/11 for Time might be generous. DYOR because I've been up all night.
Support is only tested by a vote of no confidence.
I'm not sure i'm understanding.
Are you saying that my suggested scenario of the government resigning and then Tories+others blocking any alternative isn't possible?
I see your suggestion as working as follows:
1) the government resigns 2) the Queen takes soundings as to who might command the confidence of the Commons 3) the Queen selects someone and appoints him or her as Prime Minister 4) the Conservatives have to decide whether to seek a vote of no confidence in that person 5a) they don’t and that person is Prime Minister indefinitely 5b) they do, the vote fails and that person is Prime Minister indefinitely 5c) they do, the vote succeeds and we enter a 14 day period to find someone else
I'm not sure that I completely agree with 5c. The way I read the Act if there is not a successful vote of confidence within 14 days of the first VoNC then there is an election. The clock may not start ticking when the government simply resigns but it would when a VoNC is passed. Who or what is our government during that period is far from clear.
I may have not been clear but I think we agree on the timing. The 14 day period starts from the vote of no confidence. The government during that period will be that of the last-appointed Prime Minister. The absence of the confidence of the Commons does not affect who the executive is during that period.
The problem is that if the last appointed PM has resigned does someone get to be PM if they don't win a vote of confidence first? Like a lot of things in the FTPA I don't think that has been thought through.
I've really enjoyed the Mirror Universe saga over the summer - Johnson getting smashed on every vote, the resurrection of the LibDems, the did he lie to the Queen saga which gets resolved in today's episode, the brilliant Labour Party conference parody. I assume though that at some point Zarniwoop will tire of the alternate universe and return to his office on Ursa Minor Beta.
Will we find the real world a let down in comparison to the satirical alternative we're all still enjoying?
Speak for yourself RP, but I ain't enjoying this. It's a tragedy and a disgrace that's smashing our country to pieces.
Likewise. Amusing though @Cyclefree's header is this has been miserable and has done real damage to our country whatever the outcome.
Any outcome from here is bad. Whatever contortions parliament goes through we end up with something, a country, that is damaged.
I have no idea what any solution would comprise.
And what will happen? Brexitcast like the rest of us had it right we just don't know.
I've done my mourning some time ago.
As to what the solution will comprise, there will be no solution until Remainers accept that they have lost and Leavers accept that Brexit has been a disaster. Neither of those conditions has been met yet, nor will they be for a long time. So just settle back and enjoy the decline.
What would yet another extension resolve? There's only one reason I can see and that is to delay implementing the referendum and to continue fighting the result.
It's not an attempt to resolve anything, just block one outcome.
Of course, since parliament won't vote for any deal either, that leaves us a bit fubar.
Support is only tested by a vote of no confidence.
I'm not sure i'm understanding.
Are you saying that my suggested scenario of the government resigning and then Tories+others blocking any alternative isn't possible?
I see your suggestion as working as follows:
1) the government resigns 2) the Queen takes soundings as to who might command the confidence of the Commons 3) the Queen selects someone and appoints him or her as Prime Minister 4) the Conservatives have to decide whether to seek a vote of no confidence in that person 5a) they don’t and that person is Prime Minister indefinitely 5b) they do, the vote fails and that person is Prime Minister indefinitely 5c) they do, the vote succeeds and we enter a 14 day period to find someone else
I'm not sure that I completely agree with 5c. The way I read the Act if there is not a successful vote of confidence within 14 days of the first VoNC then there is an election. The clock may not start ticking when the government simply resigns but it would when a VoNC is passed. Who or what is our government during that period is far from clear.
I may have not been clear but I think we agree on the timing. The 14 day period starts from the vote of no confidence. The government during that period will be that of the last-appointed Prime Minister. The absence of the confidence of the Commons does not affect who the executive is during that period.
The problem is that if the last appointed PM has resigned does someone get to be PM if they don't win a vote of confidence first? Like a lot of things in the FTPA I don't think that has been thought through.
The answer to your question is clear: yes. The Queen appoints the Prime Minister. The Commons then, if it chooses to, expresses its verdict on her choice.
Boris Johnson has never won a vote of confidence. He has never won a vote (he may yet become a trivia quiz answer for this reason). But he is Prime Minister.
I've really enjoyed the Mirror Universe saga over the summer - Johnson getting smashed on every vote, the resurrection of the LibDems, the did he lie to the Queen saga which gets resolved in today's episode, the brilliant Labour Party conference parody. I assume though that at some point Zarniwoop will tire of the alternate universe and return to his office on Ursa Minor Beta.
Will we find the real world a let down in comparison to the satirical alternative we're all still enjoying?
Speak for yourself RP, but I ain't enjoying this. It's a tragedy and a disgrace that's smashing our country to pieces.
Likewise. Amusing though @Cyclefree's header is this has been miserable and has done real damage to our country whatever the outcome.
Any outcome from here is bad. Whatever contortions parliament goes through we end up with something, a country, that is damaged.
I have no idea what any solution would comprise.
And what will happen? Brexitcast like the rest of us had it right we just don't know.
The current shake up has been on the cards for quite some time for those who bothered to look. The politicos have ignored all the warning signs and continued as normal. A new consensus will emerge but it wont be quick.
It's not an attempt to resolve anything, just block one outcome.
Of course, since parliament won't vote for any deal either, that leaves us a bit fubar.
Next steps plausibly leading to resolution are: a) Tory-led government agrees to support the WA subject to a referendum, which should pass the Commons b) Opposition makes a government that tweaks the PA to be more Norway-ish then parliament agrees to WA subject to a referendum, which should pass the Commons c) GE, which enables (b) if Lib+Lab+SNP win, or I'm not sure what if Con wins but probably something
What would yet another extension resolve? There's only one reason I can see and that is to delay implementing the referendum and to continue fighting the result.
It's not an attempt to resolve anything, just block one outcome.
Of course, since parliament won't vote for any deal either, that leaves us a bit fubar.
It's worse than that - Parliament won't vote for a general election either as the results don't look good for many parties.
Mind you I doubt the result would solve the current issues anyway.
There's a piece in the Guardian; 'How secret plans saved customers of Thomas Cook from being stranded" about the CAA's preparations to ensure that Thomas Cook's customers were brought home at the end of their holidays with the minimum of dislocation. Effectively, they set up a shadow airline.
I would be amazed if, over the past weeks HMQ's, and possibly in conjunction with the PoW's staff have not been quietly exploring the various options, up to and including very senior military personnel.
I've really enjoyed the Mirror Universe saga over the summer - Johnson getting smashed on every vote, the resurrection of the LibDems, the did he lie to the Queen saga which gets resolved in today's episode, the brilliant Labour Party conference parody. I assume though that at some point Zarniwoop will tire of the alternate universe and return to his office on Ursa Minor Beta.
Will we find the real world a let down in comparison to the satirical alternative we're all still enjoying?
Speak for yourself RP, but I ain't enjoying this. It's a tragedy and a disgrace that's smashing our country to pieces.
Likewise. Amusing though @Cyclefree's header is this has been miserable and has done real damage to our country whatever the outcome.
Any outcome from here is bad. Whatever contortions parliament goes through we end up with something, a country, that is damaged.
I have no idea what any solution would comprise.
And what will happen? Brexitcast like the rest of us had it right we just don't know.
I've done my mourning some time ago.
As to what the solution will comprise, there will be no solution until Remainers accept that they have lost and Leavers accept that Brexit has been a disaster. Neither of those conditions has been met yet, nor will they be for a long time. So just settle back and enjoy the decline.
Unfortunately so. You can't limit damage until you accept there is damage to be limited. To move on people have to admit Brexit was a mistake, but that realisation will be bitter Indeed.
I've really enjoyed the Mirror Universe saga over the summer - Johnson getting smashed on every vote, the resurrection of the LibDems, the did he lie to the Queen saga which gets resolved in today's episode, the brilliant Labour Party conference parody. I assume though that at some point Zarniwoop will tire of the alternate universe and return to his office on Ursa Minor Beta.
Will we find the real world a let down in comparison to the satirical alternative we're all still enjoying?
Speak for yourself RP, but I ain't enjoying this. It's a tragedy and a disgrace that's smashing our country to pieces.
Likewise. Amusing though @Cyclefree's header is this has been miserable and has done real damage to our country whatever the outcome.
Any outcome from here is bad. Whatever contortions parliament goes through we end up with something, a country, that is damaged.
I have no idea what any solution would comprise.
And what will happen? Brexitcast like the rest of us had it right we just don't know.
I've done my mourning some time ago.
As to what the solution will comprise, there will be no solution until Remainers accept that they have lost and Leavers accept that Brexit has been a disaster. Neither of those conditions has been met yet, nor will they be for a long time. So just settle back and enjoy the decline.
You might well be correct, but enjoying it is not the easiest of things for those of us who expect to be directly impacted.
What happens 'IF' Supreme Court finds against the Government? What are the possible remedies?
My guess is that Bercow will announce that the Commons will meet tomorrow and there will be an emergency bill to take away from the PM the power to advise the Queen to prorogue
While understandable rushing through legislation may mean they just make things worse through unintended consequences.
I've really enjoyed the Mirror Universe saga over the summer - Johnson getting smashed on every vote, the resurrection of the LibDems, the did he lie to the Queen saga which gets resolved in today's episode, the brilliant Labour Party conference parody. I assume though that at some point Zarniwoop will tire of the alternate universe and return to his office on Ursa Minor Beta.
Will we find the real world a let down in comparison to the satirical alternative we're all still enjoying?
Speak for yourself RP, but I ain't enjoying this. It's a tragedy and a disgrace that's smashing our country to pieces.
Likewise. Amusing though @Cyclefree's header is this has been miserable and has done real damage to our country whatever the outcome.
Two options - laugh or cry. I always chose to laugh. This has been a complete prolapse of the body politic, the end times of everything that we understood to be the post Thatcher political settlement to be. I think its ending has been a little overdue but it had to happen and it was always going to be horrendous to watch. At least it has been so coimpletely batshit crazy as to provide some amusement....
Which, though I agree with @ydoethur, is how I read your comment.
Excellence? Your outfit [Eton] turned out Cameron and Johnson to wreak havoc on the world. I will take Slough Comprehensive any day.
It's ridiculous to equate Cameron and Johnson.
Cameron, like May and Chamberlain, didn't respond well to the problems of his time - and so was forced out. Johnson is a serial liar, morally bankrupt, doesn't know what he's talking about and probably corrupt. There's reasonable debate about who our worst PM has been: but for outright unfitness for any government office, Johnson manifestly takes the all time record.
It'd be stupid to blame comprehensive schools for May's failure, or a successful business background for Chamberlain's.
Blaming Eton for Johnson sounds dangerously like a monster chip on FF43's shoulders. Johnson's almost certainly destroyed Eton's likelihood of producing any more PMs for the next century: but the fact remains that, for most parents with the cash who don't want a political future for their children, sending the brats to Eton is a jolly wise investment.
As a non lawyer if the Court decides the exercise of prerogative is judiciable then the rest is easy. It's like a Court setting aside a County Council's decision to close a Library under the ' no reasonable person test '. It's not that County Councils don't have the power to close Libraries. They do. Or that Courts get to decide if Libraries close. They don't. It's whether the process followed was proper. So *if* prerogative is judiciable and *if* the Court has seen a stack of embarrasing paper trail admitting the prorogation was political then under the maximalist reading of ' no reasonable person ' the Court simply voids the decision. Just as the County Council is then free to close the Library again after it follows due process the PM could prorogue again on the basis of better less politicised advice. Though the reassembled Parliament might act to legislate to remove the perogative first.
The difference is of course that there is ample case and statute law on how County Councils should close Libraries. My understanding only the recent Sri Lankan case is an obvious precedent in a Westminster system.
As a donor to the Crowdfunder for the Scottish case I see today as Win/Win/Win. Total defeat will lead the next non Tory government to put prorogation into statute law. Es5ablishing judiciability even if this prorogation is ruled lawful is a huge step forward regardless. If the prorogation is voided then that's a Euromillions win. There are bigger issues at play here than Brexit. This is Executive vs Legislature stuff that has been running since the Norman Yoke.
We are still going on about the norman yoke? I thought that went out of fashion after it was used during the civil war to pretend certain rights had always existed.
Foxy said "Greta is a star, but a fragile one. She is after all a child. The UN know already what the issues are, they have just chosen to ignore them. Frankie Boyle is right."
Yeah gods. She shouldn't have to be doing this.
A couple of friends have said to me that she is autistic. It seems one can neutralise something by labelling it. Next.
What an absolute drama queen she is. Totally lost the plot and her God complex has gone crazy. Time her parents took her away and sent her back to school. Total breakdown on the horizon.
Greta is a star, but a fragile one. She is after all a child. The UN know already what the issues are, they have just chosen to ignore them. Frankie Boyle is right.
What happens 'IF' Supreme Court finds against the Government? What are the possible remedies?
My guess is that Bercow will announce that the Commons will meet tomorrow and there will be an emergency bill to take away from the PM the power to advise the Queen to prorogue
While understandable rushing through legislation may mean they just make things worse through unintended consequences.
There is that. If the judges rule for the government, it also makes a vote of confidence likely to see Corbyn in No.10 that much less likely. Yesterday's edifying conference scenes will have done little to increase the urge to trust him with the levers of power.
What happens 'IF' Supreme Court finds against the Government? What are the possible remedies?
My guess is that Bercow will announce that the Commons will meet tomorrow and there will be an emergency bill to take away from the PM the power to advise the Queen to prorogue
While understandable rushing through legislation may mean they just make things worse through unintended consequences.
That seems to happen even when they are not rushed through.
I have no idea what neoliberalism is supposed to mean. And no, saying it is the political consensus doesnt make it clearer. It seems like a repackaged 'we need change, any change' which is the stock cliche of opposition, in the same way 'this is no time for change' is the stock cliche if government.
Things need to change and we need something better is trite at best, and Trump like at worst.
Given the hung parliament and the rejection of the Withdrawal Agreement 3 times by MPs the EU should have realised it takes 2 to tango and given the only Brexit solution to have got a majority in the Commons is the Withdrawal Agreement minus the backstop which Boris also wants if they are not going to move towards that No further progress will be made unless there is a general election and a change in the Commons arithmetic
What happens 'IF' Supreme Court finds against the Government? What are the possible remedies?
My guess is that Bercow will announce that the Commons will meet tomorrow and there will be an emergency bill to take away from the PM the power to advise the Queen to prorogue
While understandable rushing through legislation may mean they just make things worse through unintended consequences.
We are where we are in large part because of the unintended consequences of Parliament legislating swiftly to restrict the executive's power to call an election. This will not have passed the SC judges by.
Given the hung parliament and the rejection of the Withdrawal Agreement 3 times by MPs the EU should have realised it takes 2 to tango and given the only Brexit solution to have got a majority in the Commons is the Withdrawal Agreement minus the backstop which Boris also wants if they are not going to move towards that No further progress will be made unless there is a general election and a change in the Commons arithmetic
I have no idea what neoliberalism is supposed to mean. And no, saying it is the political consensus doesnt make it clearer. It seems like a repackaged 'we need change, any change' which is the stock cliche of opposition, in the same way 'this is no time for change' is the stock cliche if government.
Things need to change and we need something better is trite at best, and Trump like at worst.
neoliberalism is just anything that you don't like it. It supplanted neocon in ca. 2008.
Foxy said "Greta is a star, but a fragile one. She is after all a child. The UN know already what the issues are, they have just chosen to ignore them. Frankie Boyle is right."
Yeah gods. She shouldn't have to be doing this....
Publicly embarrassing her audience by pointing out to them what they know and have chosen to ignore (and getting them to applaud her for it), make it marginally more likely they might do something.
1) the government resigns 2) the Queen takes soundings as to who might command the confidence of the Commons 3) the Queen selects someone and appoints him or her as Prime Minister 4) the Conservatives have to decide whether to seek a vote of no confidence in that person 5a) they don’t and that person is Prime Minister indefinitely 5b) they do, the vote fails and that person is Prime Minister indefinitely 5c) they do, the vote succeeds and we enter a 14 day period to find someone else
Thanks.
If she is not reassured there is an alternative that commands confidence does she just keep throwing mud at the wall and letting MPs vote down the options?
Or can she refuse to invite an alternative and instead suggest a GE?
The Queen will appoint a Prime Minister. In the absence of anyone likely to command the confidence of the Commons, she will almost certainly call Jeremy Corbyn as the leader of the second party if the first party has stepped aside.
So to answer the question I understand you to be asking, there would be a Prime Minister who would have to comply with the recently-passed Act.
Swinson and the LDs would vote down PM Corbyn though as would Tory rebels so after a number of votes we would probably end up with PM Ken Clarke or Oliver Letwin or Harriet Harman or Hilary Benn purely to extend
Yes he is. I will confess though that while it is mean, it was a funny tweet. Far more so than his typical response which would have been a much more vulgar insult.
Speak for yourself RP, but I ain't enjoying this. It's a tragedy and a disgrace that's smashing our country to pieces.
Likewise. Amusing though @Cyclefree's header is this has been miserable and has done real damage to our country whatever the outcome.
Any outcome from here is bad. Whatever contortions parliament goes through we end up with something, a country, that is damaged.
I have no idea what any solution would comprise.
And what will happen? Brexitcast like the rest of us had it right we just don't know.
The current shake up has been on the cards for quite some time for those who bothered to look. The politicos have ignored all the warning signs and continued as normal. A new consensus will emerge but it wont be quick.
Yep, for a while now people have been pushing a mostly unwritten and informal constitutional system to breaking point, using and abusing it for their own ends and pushing it to the limits. From the last 20 years (a definitely non-exhaustive list)
Blair’s Lords’ reforms Asymmetric devolution to Scotland and Wales. Brown’s reneging on the Lisbon referendum promise Clegg’s FTPA Salmond and Cameron’s Scotland referendum Constantly-pushed Parliamentary boundary reforms (now from 2005 data) Cameron’s attempt to renegotiate with the EU, followed by an open-ended referendum where he campaigned for the status quo rather than the change. Behaviour of Remain campaigners to try every trick to overturn the referendum result Theresa May’s triggering of A50 before the negotiation objectives were clear John Bercow’s blatant disregard for Parliamentary process to further his personal politics. Theresa May’s EU negotiations and refusal to compromise and sell her proposal as anything other than a fair accompli despite hardly anyone being in favour of it. The EU for negotiating in bad faith, then refusing to get back to the table in any meaningful way when it became clear the WA was dead in Parliament. Boris’s Parliamentary tricks in response to Bercow’s tricks Corbyn’s refusal to table a vote of no confidence for political reasons, and Parliament’s collective refusal to vote for an election when the government has clearly lost its majority. Use by many parties of the courts in an activist manner, leading them to interfere in the running of politics.
There’s going to be many more that I missed from that list. Once the immediate crisis is over, with Brexit resolved in whatever way it is, there’s a serious need for a major constitutional convention, leading to roles and processes being formalised that until now have never needed to be - because everyone used to understand the rules and play the game fairly.
1) the government resigns 2) the Queen takes soundings as to who might command the confidence of the Commons 3) the Queen selects someone and appoints him or her as Prime Minister 4) the Conservatives have to decide whether to seek a vote of no confidence in that person 5a) they don’t and that person is Prime Minister indefinitely 5b) they do, the vote fails and that person is Prime Minister indefinitely 5c) they do, the vote succeeds and we enter a 14 day period to find someone else
Thanks.
If she is not reassured there is an alternative that commands confidence does she just keep throwing mud at the wall and letting MPs vote down the options?
Or can she refuse to invite an alternative and instead suggest a GE?
The Queen will appoint a Prime Minister. In the absence of anyone likely to command the confidence of the Commons, she will almost certainly call Jeremy Corbyn as the leader of the second party if the first party has stepped aside.
So to answer the question I understand you to be asking, there would be a Prime Minister who would have to comply with the recently-passed Act.
Swinson and the LDs would vote down PM Corbyn though as would Tory rebels so after a number of votes we would probably end up with PM Ken Clarke or Oliver Letwin or Harriet Harman or Hilary Benn purely to extend
Nah. If he’s already in place then it was Boris who put him there. In that scenario Corbyn would be PM going into an election after an extension.
As a non lawyer if the Court decides the exercise of prerogative is judiciable then the rest is easy. It's like a Court setting aside a County Council's decision to close a Library under the ' no reasonable person test '. It's not that County Councils don't have the power to close Libraries. They do. Or that Courts get to decide if Libraries close. They don't. It's whether the process followed was proper. So *if* prerogative is judiciable and *if* the Court has seen a stack of embarrasing paper trail admitting the prorogation was political then under the maximalist reading of ' no reasonable person ' the Court simply voids the decision. Just as the County Council is then free to close the Library again after it follows due process the PM could prorogue again on the basis of better less politicised advice. Though the reassembled Parliament might act to legislate to remove the perogative first.
It is extremely difficult to see how in practice either the judges could void the prorogation of Parliament, or how Parliament could take the power of proroguing away from the PM. I can foresee all sorts of unintended consequences to both actions, cf the FTPA.
I was wondering if one of the reasons they were asking about possible remedies is because they are concerned they can't void this decision even if they find it shouldn't have happened. After all, if they do that all the laws passed in the washup will be voided, but they have already started to take effect. Meanwhile, if they order a recall during the Tory conference that will certainly look like them playing politics. Even Dominic Cummings would struggle to miss a goal left as open as that.
I don't envy them, but I also have to say I wasn't impressed by the reasoning of the Scottish judges. Their way out could be to endorse the judgment of every other judge with a rider that since this power is open to abuse Parliament should consider limiting prorogations to e.g. fourteen days.
Which would still wreck Johnson, indeed rather more effectively than a ruling he's a liar:
What would be the logic or democratic justification for fourteen days when Election prorogations are by statute longer? The fact that those prorogations are for a good reason doesn’t change the fact that during that period the Government acts without parliamentary oversight.
Yes. I'd be happy with limits on prorogation, I think the government did lie about its main reason...but a QS is a legitimate reason as well. So are they not allowed to prorogue for a legitimate reason because they also have another reason?
Not many seem to think it wont be justifiable though.
Given the hung parliament and the rejection of the Withdrawal Agreement 3 times by MPs the EU should have realised it takes 2 to tango and given the only Brexit solution to have got a majority in the Commons is the Withdrawal Agreement minus the backstop which Boris also wants if they are not going to move towards that No further progress will be made unless there is a general election and a change in the Commons arithmetic
Not this comment again.
He is actually right though, as long as you don’t infer from it that the EU have done anything wrong. Under current Parliamentary arithmetic it is probably their only option to avert no deal or endless extensions.
Given the hung parliament and the rejection of the Withdrawal Agreement 3 times by MPs the EU should have realised it takes 2 to tango and given the only Brexit solution to have got a majority in the Commons is the Withdrawal Agreement minus the backstop which Boris also wants if they are not going to move towards that No further progress will be made unless there is a general election and a change in the Commons arithmetic
Not this comment again.
He is actually right though, as long as you don’t infer from it that the EU have done anything wrong. Under current Parliamentary arithmetic it is probably their only option to avert no deal or endless extensions.
No deal without parliamentary consent is illegal remember.
1) the government resigns 2) the Queen takes soundings as to who might command the confidence of the Commons 3) the Queen selects someone and appoints him or her as Prime Minister 4) the Conservatives have to decide whether to seek a vote of no confidence in that person 5a) they don’t and that person is Prime Minister indefinitely 5b) they do, the vote fails and that person is Prime Minister indefinitely 5c) they do, the vote succeeds and we enter a 14 day period to find someone else
Thanks.
If she is not reassured there is an alternative that commands confidence does she just keep throwing mud at the wall and letting MPs vote down the options?
Or can she refuse to invite an alternative and instead suggest a GE?
The Queen will appoint a Prime Minister. In the absence of anyone likely to command the confidence of the Commons, she will almost certainly call Jeremy Corbyn as the leader of the second party if the first party has stepped aside.
So to answer the question I understand you to be asking, there would be a Prime Minister who would have to comply with the recently-passed Act.
Swinson and the LDs would vote down PM Corbyn though as would Tory rebels so after a number of votes we would probably end up with PM Ken Clarke or Oliver Letwin or Harriet Harman or Hilary Benn purely to extend
Nah. If he’s already in place then it was Boris who put him there. In that scenario Corbyn would be PM going into an election after an extension.
No Boris won't vote for Corbyn as PM diehard Remainer MPs will but Corbyn as PM post extension is a Tory dream in Labour Leave seats while Remainers will still not trust Corbyn either after Labour refused to commit to back Remain this week
Given the hung parliament and the rejection of the Withdrawal Agreement 3 times by MPs the EU should have realised it takes 2 to tango and given the only Brexit solution to have got a majority in the Commons is the Withdrawal Agreement minus the backstop which Boris also wants if they are not going to move towards that No further progress will be made unless there is a general election and a change in the Commons arithmetic
Not this comment again.
He is actually right though, as long as you don’t infer from it that the EU have done anything wrong. Under current Parliamentary arithmetic it is probably their only option to avert no deal or endless extensions.
No deal without parliamentary consent is illegal remember.
So endless extension it is then without a Tory majority which suits the EU fine I suspect which is why they will not agree to the Withdrawal Agreement and a technical solution for the Irish border unless the Tories win a majority and No Deal is a real threat
1) the government resigns 2) the Queen takes soundings as to who might command the confidence of the Commons 3) the Queen selects someone and appoints him or her as Prime Minister 4) the Conservatives have to decide whether to seek a vote of no confidence in that person 5a) they don’t and that person is Prime Minister indefinitely 5b) they do, the vote fails and that person is Prime Minister indefinitely 5c) they do, the vote succeeds and we enter a 14 day period to find someone else
Thanks.
If she is not reassured there is an alternative that commands confidence does she just keep throwing mud at the wall and letting MPs vote down the options?
Or can she refuse to invite an alternative and instead suggest a GE?
The Queen will appoint a Prime Minister. In the absence of anyone likely to command the confidence of the Commons, she will almost certainly call Jeremy Corbyn as the leader of the second party if the first party has stepped aside.
So to answer the question I understand you to be asking, there would be a Prime Minister who would have to comply with the recently-passed Act.
Swinson and the LDs would vote down PM Corbyn though as would Tory rebels so after a number of votes we would probably end up with PM Ken Clarke or Oliver Letwin or Harriet Harman or Hilary Benn purely to extend
Nah. If he’s already in place then it was Boris who put him there. In that scenario Corbyn would be PM going into an election after an extension.
No Boris won't vote for Corbyn as PM diehard Remainer MPs will but Corbyn as PM post extension is a Tory dream in Labour Leave seats while Remainers will still not trust Corbyn either after Labour refused to commit to back Remain this week
Boris doesn’t need to vote for Corbyn. If he resigns, Corbyn will probably be appointed. If he doesn’t resign, he will be forced to extend.
Foxy said "Greta is a star, but a fragile one. She is after all a child. The UN know already what the issues are, they have just chosen to ignore them. Frankie Boyle is right."
Yeah gods. She shouldn't have to be doing this....
Publicly embarrassing her audience by pointing out to them what they know and have chosen to ignore (and getting them to applaud her for it), make it marginally more likely they might do something.
Gammons don't like her because she does not confirm to their preconceptions of a how a teenage girl should comport herself.
What an absolute drama queen she is. Totally lost the plot and her God complex has gone crazy. Time her parents took her away and sent her back to school. Total breakdown on the horizon.
Greta is a star, but a fragile one. She is after all a child. The UN know already what the issues are, they have just chosen to ignore them. Frankie Boyle is right.
There is value in stating your case clearly to people who are not interested in listening. Other people may be listening, and they may choose to act.
I do not think that Ms Thunberg believes that the politicians at the UN will suddenly start acting on their knowledge as she thinks necessary, but I think that she hopes that non-politicians the world over will be listening, and will choose to join future protests, to create the political pressure that politicians will have to respond to - or be swept aside by.
Given the hung parliament and the rejection of the Withdrawal Agreement 3 times by MPs the EU should have realised it takes 2 to tango and given the only Brexit solution to have got a majority in the Commons is the Withdrawal Agreement minus the backstop which Boris also wants if they are not going to move towards that No further progress will be made unless there is a general election and a change in the Commons arithmetic
Not this comment again.
He is actually right though, as long as you don’t infer from it that the EU have done anything wrong. Under current Parliamentary arithmetic it is probably their only option to avert no deal or endless extensions.
No deal without parliamentary consent is illegal remember.
So endless extension it is then without a Tory majority which suits the EU fine I suspect which is why they will not agree to the Withdrawal Agreement and a technical solution for the Irish border unless the Tories win a majority and No Deal is a real threat
It’s because there is no technical solution available yet. Have you not been listening?
Comments
You know, just in case. Oh yes, asking for a friend called Brenda ....
1) the government resigns
2) the Queen takes soundings as to who might command the confidence of the Commons
3) the Queen selects someone and appoints him or her as Prime Minister
4) the Conservatives have to decide whether to seek a vote of no confidence in that person
5a) they don’t and that person is Prime Minister indefinitely
5b) they do, the vote fails and that person is Prime Minister indefinitely
5c) they do, the vote succeeds and we enter a 14 day period to find someone else
The government resigns prior to extension request.
No alternative can command support.
Then what?
https://twitter.com/frankieboyle/status/1176244035293515776?s=19
(Yes, I know he's sent back his Yankee passport. It's a joke, OK?)
Whatever the reasons for him making that tweet, it is a good sign. Even if he is the world's biggest neoliberal at heart and he is just pretending*, the fact he feels the need to pretend, also the fact that someone who isn't even one of the most left wing candidates feels the need to pretend. That and him putting the message out there strengthens it, in this nomination race you won't find impassioned defence of neo Liberalism and given the polling on different age groups views that is going to go one way pretty quickly with the Democrats.
Basically I see it as a promising sign things are moving in the right direction, a very small victory but a necessary one.
*I wouldn't assume it to be a complete falsehood but there is a huge of amount of wiggle room in there.
Voided, or just awaiting royal assent?
This is one of the reasons I'm very dubious about the judges simply declaring the prorogation void. It would be the ultimate irony if Remainer attempts to stop a no-deal Brexit provoked one, but...
If she is not reassured there is an alternative that commands confidence does she just keep throwing mud at the wall and letting MPs vote down the options?
Or can she refuse to invite an alternative and instead suggest a GE?
Will we find the real world a let down in comparison to the satirical alternative we're all still enjoying?
Anyway, I just popped by to share a couple of thoughts:
1. I look forward to the Labour conference polling bounce.
2. Greta nailed it yesterday.
3. Jo Swinson is not Birgitte Nyborg.
Now I'll switch off from politics for the rest of the day.
At some stage the chanting, brinkmanship, blaming and trolling will end and give way to reason, collaboration and progress. But not until the damage is done.
If they don't then the act of resignation of the government would force a GE would it not.
And in the meantime who would be complying with the law to submit an extension request?
Have a good morning.
I see Cameron finally admitted what most people knew. He actively stopped the CS making plans for Brexit.
Democracy at it's finest.
So to answer the question I understand you to be asking, there would be a Prime Minister who would have to comply with the recently-passed Act.
Brenda revokes Boris's passport, as a lesser punishment than treason. Donald, through executive order hands Boris back his US passport.
Queen appoints impoverished Scottish peer as new Prime Minister who agrees with the EU that they join the newly formed Commonwealth Economic Union with Brenda as head of state.
Win Win .....
The PM will refuse to write the letter to the EU on 19th, those opposed to him will seek an injunction somewhere that forces him to do so, and when the legal avenues are all done (25th?) he’ll resign rather than write the letter against his will, telling the Queen he hasn’t a clue who to call next, then it will be up to MPs collectively to find a way of nominating a PM from among themselves.
The Betway oddsmakers are thinking the same way mind, she's 4-11 there.
This cup of coffee is neoliberal, it needs more milk.
Head of Eton hits back at Labour plans to abolish private schools. Simon Henderson says system is unequal but ‘abolishing excellence’ is no solution
Excellence? Your outfit turned out Cameron and Johnson to wreak havoc on the world. I will take Slough Comprehensive any day.
Not looking forward to walking the dog if this keeps up.
In the situation described would it be open to 'an MP' to propose that the member for Uxbridge and S. Ruislip be excluded for contempt?
Parking Brexit aside for a moment, the separation of the Labour Party from its moderate majority and the separation of the Tories from their moderate minority is heading towards completion. The creation of ChangeUK was a false ending, time will tell whether the resurrection of the LibDems is a false ending or not.
Either way British politics will look very different after this year.
I have no idea what any solution would comprise.
And what will happen? Brexitcast like the rest of us had it right we just don't know.
As to what the solution will comprise, there will be no solution until Remainers accept that they have lost and Leavers accept that Brexit has been a disaster. Neither of those conditions has been met yet, nor will they be for a long time. So just settle back and enjoy the decline.
Of course, since parliament won't vote for any deal either, that leaves us a bit fubar.
Boris Johnson has never won a vote of confidence. He has never won a vote (he may yet become a trivia quiz answer for this reason). But he is Prime Minister.
a) Tory-led government agrees to support the WA subject to a referendum, which should pass the Commons
b) Opposition makes a government that tweaks the PA to be more Norway-ish then parliament agrees to WA subject to a referendum, which should pass the Commons
c) GE, which enables (b) if Lib+Lab+SNP win, or I'm not sure what if Con wins but probably something
Mind you I doubt the result would solve the current issues anyway.
I would be amazed if, over the past weeks HMQ's, and possibly in conjunction with the PoW's staff have not been quietly exploring the various options, up to and including very senior military personnel.
Cameron, like May and Chamberlain, didn't respond well to the problems of his time - and so was forced out. Johnson is a serial liar, morally bankrupt, doesn't know what he's talking about and probably corrupt. There's reasonable debate about who our worst PM has been: but for outright unfitness for any government office, Johnson manifestly takes the all time record.
It'd be stupid to blame comprehensive schools for May's failure, or a successful business background for Chamberlain's.
Blaming Eton for Johnson sounds dangerously like a monster chip on FF43's shoulders. Johnson's almost certainly destroyed Eton's likelihood of producing any more PMs for the next century: but the fact remains that, for most parents with the cash who don't want a political future for their children, sending the brats to Eton is a jolly wise investment.
https://www.netweather.tv/live-weather/radar
"Greta is a star, but a fragile one. She is after all a child. The UN know already what the issues are, they have just chosen to ignore them. Frankie Boyle is right."
Yeah gods. She shouldn't have to be doing this.
A couple of friends have said to me that she is autistic. It seems one can neutralise something by labelling it.
Next.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-berkshire-49796952
https://youtu.be/FqIaNfS-O4Q
If the judges rule for the government, it also makes a vote of confidence likely to see Corbyn in No.10 that much less likely. Yesterday's edifying conference scenes will have done little to increase the urge to trust him with the levers of power.
Things need to change and we need something better is trite at best, and Trump like at worst.
From the last 20 years (a definitely non-exhaustive list)
Blair’s Lords’ reforms
Asymmetric devolution to Scotland and Wales.
Brown’s reneging on the Lisbon referendum promise
Clegg’s FTPA
Salmond and Cameron’s Scotland referendum
Constantly-pushed Parliamentary boundary reforms (now from 2005 data)
Cameron’s attempt to renegotiate with the EU, followed by an open-ended referendum where he campaigned for the status quo rather than the change.
Behaviour of Remain campaigners to try every trick to overturn the referendum result
Theresa May’s triggering of A50 before the negotiation objectives were clear
John Bercow’s blatant disregard for Parliamentary process to further his personal politics.
Theresa May’s EU negotiations and refusal to compromise and sell her proposal as anything other than a fair accompli despite hardly anyone being in favour of it.
The EU for negotiating in bad faith, then refusing to get back to the table in any meaningful way when it became clear the WA was dead in Parliament.
Boris’s Parliamentary tricks in response to Bercow’s tricks
Corbyn’s refusal to table a vote of no confidence for political reasons, and Parliament’s collective refusal to vote for an election when the government has clearly lost its majority.
Use by many parties of the courts in an activist manner, leading them to interfere in the running of politics.
There’s going to be many more that I missed from that list. Once the immediate crisis is over, with Brexit resolved in whatever way it is, there’s a serious need for a major constitutional convention, leading to roles and processes being formalised that until now have never needed to be - because everyone used to understand the rules and play the game fairly.
That's why we taco-van-and-land-value-tax lovers figured that whatever it is we want to be called it.
Not many seem to think it wont be justifiable though.
Snookered.
I do not think that Ms Thunberg believes that the politicians at the UN will suddenly start acting on their knowledge as she thinks necessary, but I think that she hopes that non-politicians the world over will be listening, and will choose to join future protests, to create the political pressure that politicians will have to respond to - or be swept aside by.