It turns out that a Prime Minister who was not subjected to any Parliamentary scrutiny and who spent the month of August blowing bubbles to the cooing ecstasy of a gullible press looks distinctly less impressive when he is subject to some critical and detailed examination. Whoever would have expected that?
If that shitshow from Boris at PMQs is a foretaste of his performance on the stump in a campaign, I cannot see a single Tory MP voting for an early General Election tonight.
Could any of them be confident of holding their seat?
Oh, and welcome to the club, @Big_G_NorthWales. Many more to come, I'm sure. Perhaps we'll see the Conservative Party reborn under a new name - the One Nation Party, perhaps.
Boris not very good in parliament. That should not be a surprise to anyone who has been following politics for the last ten years.
I think Labour's position is actually now quite strong. If they can engineer an election after Boris has been humiliated by parliament blowing up his brain-dead 'do-or-die' deadline, Corbyn will have the best of both worlds: he'll be able to tell potential voters that Labour saw off the risk of a catastrophic Tory no-deal crash out, and be able with a moderately straight face to promise to come to a better relationship with the EU (the details can be left vague). Meanwhile he'll benefit from Farage laying in to Boris in exactly the same way he laid into Theresa May, for missing the self-imposed deadline.
Oh, and welcome to the club, @Big_G_NorthWales. Many more to come, I'm sure. Perhaps we'll see the Conservative Party reborn under a new name - the One Nation Party, perhaps.
Big_G to resign his conservative membership today?
I published my resignation letter early this morning on this forum
Don’t take this the wrong way, but isn’t this kind of thing, publishing resignation letters, announcing you are no longer posting on the site, long bios on Twitter, awfully vain and self important? Why do it?
Given the comments some posters on here (including me) have made about Big_G remaining a member of the tories while other previously more favourable of Boris had left - it was a worthwhile thing to post.
Both Big_G leaving (which must have been a seriously hard decision) and his reasons for doing so are valid posts and discussion topics on this site.
Anyone who knows anything about the criminal justice system knows that giving money to the police will achieve absolutely nothing. Unless you invest in all parts of it, it is simply pissing money away.
But they've given money to the visible bits (police and prisons). You mean there are other bits that also need money (say courts, lawyers and probation offices). But they aren't obvious.
So far they have given nothing other than vague promises of 20K police, when we know already 40K will retire. As said if you don't fix the whole system you are just wasting time and money.
Big_G to resign his conservative membership today?
He already did that this morning.
Much respect to Big G for that.
Thank you.
When my party throw out Ken Clarke and other long serving conservative mps why would I remain
It was a painful decision
Because Ken Clarke and others made their bed and because regardless of Brexit the Conservatives still stand for what you stand for?
But I respect your decision. I faced the same difficult choice when May was elected and made the same decision as you did.
I wasn't an adult or a member in Major's day but did you disagree with Major removing the whip from Rupert Allason? Had Bill Cash or John Redwood voted against Major on the Maastricht Confidence vote would you have opposed them being thrown out?
This is utterly poor by Johnson. "His friends are in Tehran and Caracas." Oh for goodness' sake, the Conservatives have been hammering that line since Corbyn was first elected. It doesn't cut through.
It does given the Tories now have a 10%+ lead
You think the Tories' lead is because the public have suddenly become very concerned about Corbyn's stance on Iran?
Big_G to resign his conservative membership today?
I published my resignation letter early this morning on this forum
Don’t take this the wrong way, but isn’t this kind of thing (publishing resignation letters, announcing you are no longer posting on the site, long bios on Twitter) awfully vain and self important? Why do it?
You have a point but I wanted to display my reasons to those who may have been interested
Oh, and welcome to the club, @Big_G_NorthWales. Many more to come, I'm sure. Perhaps we'll see the Conservative Party reborn under a new name - the One Nation Party, perhaps.
Oh, and welcome to the club, @Big_G_NorthWales. Many more to come, I'm sure. Perhaps we'll see the Conservative Party reborn under a new name - the One Nation Party, perhaps.
Big_G to resign his conservative membership today?
I published my resignation letter early this morning on this forum
Don’t take this the wrong way, but isn’t this kind of thing, publishing resignation letters, announcing you are no longer posting on the site, long bios on Twitter, awfully vain and self important? Why do it?
Given the comments some posters on here (including me) have made about Big_G remaining a member of the tories while other previously more favourable of Boris had left - it was a worthwhile thing to post.
Both Big_G leaving (which must have been a seriously hard decision) and his reasons for doing so are valid posts and discussion topics on this site.
Worthwhile to mention leaving, yes. Publishing letters/ writing threads about it seems like attention seeking to me
Anyone who knows anything about the criminal justice system knows that giving money to the police will achieve absolutely nothing. Unless you invest in all parts of it, it is simply pissing money away.
But they've given money to the visible bits (police and prisons). You mean there are other bits that also need money (say courts, lawyers and probation offices). But they aren't obvious.
So far they have given nothing other than vague promises of 20K police, when we know already 40K will retire. As said if you don't fix the whole system you are just wasting time and money.
I missed out a couple of words - the courts, lawyers and probation offices aren't obvious so aren't getting any money.
Don't forget this spending review is look we are giving the things you care about more money - but in reality it isn't going to do anything. Education is a prime example on one level schools are getting more money but it's already been spent giving teachers up to a 20% pay rise so the money won't actually help schools / education one bit.
Johnson has Lost control of Brexit. Johnson has Lost control of his Party. Johnson has Lost control of the House. Johnson has lost control of the election date. Johnson has lost many One Nation Tory MPs and Voters All on day 1. HYUFD great day for Johnson!!
Johnson has a 10 point lead in the latest poll which also has most voters opposing further extension, today the Court of Session backed him proroguing Parliament, the momentum is all Boris
Big_G to resign his conservative membership today?
I published my resignation letter early this morning on this forum
Don’t take this the wrong way, but isn’t this kind of thing, publishing resignation letters, announcing you are no longer posting on the site, long bios on Twitter, awfully vain and self important? Why do it?
Given the comments some posters on here (including me) have made about Big_G remaining a member of the tories while other previously more favourable of Boris had left - it was a worthwhile thing to post.
Both Big_G leaving (which must have been a seriously hard decision) and his reasons for doing so are valid posts and discussion topics on this site.
Worthwhile to mention leaving, yes. Publishing letters/ writing threads about it seems like attention seeking to me
They're just comments like any other. Why have you singled them out as especially attention-seeking?
Big_G to resign his conservative membership today?
I published my resignation letter early this morning on this forum
Don’t take this the wrong way, but isn’t this kind of thing (publishing resignation letters, announcing you are no longer posting on the site, long bios on Twitter) awfully vain and self important? Why do it?
You have a point but I wanted to display my reasons to those who may have been interested
Fair enough, sorry I didn’t really want to dig you out
Big_G to resign his conservative membership today?
I published my resignation letter early this morning on this forum
Don’t take this the wrong way, but isn’t this kind of thing, publishing resignation letters, announcing you are no longer posting on the site, long bios on Twitter, awfully vain and self important? Why do it?
Given the comments some posters on here (including me) have made about Big_G remaining a member of the tories while other previously more favourable of Boris had left - it was a worthwhile thing to post.
Both Big_G leaving (which must have been a seriously hard decision) and his reasons for doing so are valid posts and discussion topics on this site.
Worthwhile to mention leaving, yes. Publishing letters/ writing threads about it seems like attention seeking to me
They're just comments like any other. Why have you singled them out as especially attention-seeking?
Because they make themselves the topic which seems like overestimating their own importance.
Plato (RIP) often said something along the lines of ‘they need to win over people like me’ about political parties, which made me cringe equally
Big_G to resign his conservative membership today?
I published my resignation letter early this morning on this forum
Don’t take this the wrong way, but isn’t this kind of thing, publishing resignation letters, announcing you are no longer posting on the site, long bios on Twitter, awfully vain and self important? Why do it?
Given the comments some posters on here (including me) have made about Big_G remaining a member of the tories while other previously more favourable of Boris had left - it was a worthwhile thing to post.
Both Big_G leaving (which must have been a seriously hard decision) and his reasons for doing so are valid posts and discussion topics on this site.
Worthwhile to mention leaving, yes. Publishing letters/ writing threads about it seems like attention seeking to me
Given that people on here have had a go at his position its perfectly fair for him to respond politely - and given that this is a betting sites it's useful albeit anecdotal information.
Big_G to resign his conservative membership today?
He already did that this morning.
Much respect to Big G for that.
Thank you.
When my party throw out Ken Clarke and other long serving conservative mps why would I remain
It was a painful decision
Because Ken Clarke and others made their bed and because regardless of Brexit the Conservatives still stand for what you stand for?
But I respect your decision. I faced the same difficult choice when May was elected and made the same decision as you did.
I wasn't an adult or a member in Major's day but did you disagree with Major removing the whip from Rupert Allason? Had Bill Cash or John Redwood voted against Major on the Maastricht Confidence vote would you have opposed them being thrown out?
Rupert Allason aka Nigel West got the whip back and he was defeated in 1997. I dont think the Tory MPs who rebelled yesterday will get the whip back. So it is not the same and yesterday was not a confidence vote wheras 1993 was a formally linked issue/confidence vote.
Johnson has Lost control of Brexit. Johnson has Lost control of his Party. Johnson has Lost control of the House. Johnson has lost control of the election date. Johnson has lost many One Nation Tory MPs and Voters All on day 1. HYUFD great day for Johnson!!
Johnson has a 10 point lead in the latest poll which also has most voters opposing further extension, today the Court of Session backed him proroguing Parliament, the momentum is all Boris
You are Mohammed Saeed al-Sahhaf and I claim my £5
She’s sitting between Ken Clarke and Antoinette Sandbach, two proper Tories.
She sat next to Ken Clarke yesterday. She might not have rebelled last night and she might not rebel tonight, but she couldn't be giving a clearer signal of her sympathies.
YES side have no fatigue and will be well up for it, it does not need many more to change and it is won. Given the shambles and treatment since last one and us out of Europe , that should not be difficult. Alastair is right about Sturgeon and if no referendum she is a goner for sure.
Hi Malc,
I don't doubt the enthusiasm of The National readership et al, I do doubt the enthusiasm of the general populace for being put through it all again. Brexit has not been a great advertisement for Westminster rule, I grant you, but it is also a warning about what happens when you embark on major constitutional change.
Sturgeon is surely safe as houses. Who on earth would lead a charge against her?
I seriously doubt she will not be challenged if she does not have a referendum next year. A lot of people getting impatient.
Big_G to resign his conservative membership today?
I published my resignation letter early this morning on this forum
Don’t take this the wrong way, but isn’t this kind of thing, publishing resignation letters, announcing you are no longer posting on the site, long bios on Twitter, awfully vain and self important? Why do it?
Given the comments some posters on here (including me) have made about Big_G remaining a member of the tories while other previously more favourable of Boris had left - it was a worthwhile thing to post.
Both Big_G leaving (which must have been a seriously hard decision) and his reasons for doing so are valid posts and discussion topics on this site.
Worthwhile to mention leaving, yes. Publishing letters/ writing threads about it seems like attention seeking to me
Given that people on here have had a go at his position its perfectly fair for him to respond politely - and given that this is a betting sites it's useful albeit anecdotal information.
Who said he couldn’t respond politely? Publishing the letter/making it the subject of a thread header seems to me to be like playing at being an MP or resigning minister, who do such things on Twitter
Big_G to resign his conservative membership today?
He already did that this morning.
Much respect to Big G for that.
Thank you.
When my party throw out Ken Clarke and other long serving conservative mps why would I remain
It was a painful decision
Because Ken Clarke and others made their bed and because regardless of Brexit the Conservatives still stand for what you stand for?
But I respect your decision. I faced the same difficult choice when May was elected and made the same decision as you did.
I wasn't an adult or a member in Major's day but did you disagree with Major removing the whip from Rupert Allason? Had Bill Cash or John Redwood voted against Major on the Maastricht Confidence vote would you have opposed them being thrown out?
Rupert Allason aka Nigel West got the whip back and he was defeated in 1997. I dont think the Tory MPs who rebelled yesterday will get the whip back. So it is not the same and yesterday was not a confidence vote wheras 1993 was a formally linked issue/confidence vote.
Allason was already out of the country when the vote was called and didn't make it back to vote. He abstained because he was out of the country and apologised and agreed he should have made it back so he got the whip suspended.
Those who rebelled yesterday knew what they were doing.
I can't help feeling that the Cummings plan of a 'parliament vs the people' election has been somewhat undermined by the likelihood of scurrilous wags plastering that slogan over the picture of Rees-Mogg lounging on the benches.
Big_G to resign his conservative membership today?
He already did that this morning.
Much respect to Big G for that.
Thank you.
When my party throw out Ken Clarke and other long serving conservative mps why would I remain
It was a painful decision
Because Ken Clarke and others made their bed and because regardless of Brexit the Conservatives still stand for what you stand for?
But I respect your decision. I faced the same difficult choice when May was elected and made the same decision as you did.
I wasn't an adult or a member in Major's day but did you disagree with Major removing the whip from Rupert Allason? Had Bill Cash or John Redwood voted against Major on the Maastricht Confidence vote would you have opposed them being thrown out?
On any vote of confidence I expect all mps to comply.
However I do not accept yesterday was a vote of confidence
I was asked to stand as a Conservative Councillor in 1966 when I was 22 and had just started running my own business. I was unable to do so due to my commitments but have supported the party in many ways since, especially at GE's though only actually joining 3 years ago
The law of unexpected consequences; Boris' contrasting style makes Corbyn look Prime Ministerial.
No it doesn't he looks in charge and committed to Brexit while Corbyn looks weak and indecisive
HYUFD - he is having a nightmare
I fear that your hopes for Boris may collide with reality
No he isn't, nobody watches PMQs bar political nerds like us, all that matters is Boris got his sound bites across e.g. Corbyn preferring to send money to the EU rather than spend it at home which can make brief clips on the news
Boris and Cummings need to tone down this thing of hectoring Jezza into agreeing a GE. It smacks of tantrums and impotent panic. The public don't understand the intricacies of the FTPA either so will just be bewildered as to why Jezza is being picked on.
Oh, and welcome to the club, @Big_G_NorthWales. Many more to come, I'm sure. Perhaps we'll see the Conservative Party reborn under a new name - the One Nation Party, perhaps.
The law of unexpected consequences; Boris' contrasting style makes Corbyn look Prime Ministerial.
No it doesn't he looks in charge and committed to Brexit while Corbyn looks weak and indecisive
HYUFD - he is having a nightmare
I fear that your hopes for Boris may collide with reality
No he isn't, nobody watches PMQs bar political nerds like us, all that matters is Boris got his sound bites across e.g. Corbyn preferring to send money to the EU rather than spend it at home which can make brief clips on the news
Anyone who knows anything about the criminal justice system knows that giving money to the police will achieve absolutely nothing. Unless you invest in all parts of it, it is simply pissing money away.
But they've given money to the visible bits (police and prisons). You mean there are other bits that also need money (say courts, lawyers and probation offices). But they aren't obvious.
So far they have given nothing other than vague promises of 20K police, when we know already 40K will retire. As said if you don't fix the whole system you are just wasting time and money.
I missed out a couple of words - the courts, lawyers and probation offices aren't obvious so aren't getting any money.
Don't forget this spending review is look we are giving the things you care about more money - but in reality it isn't going to do anything. Education is a prime example on one level schools are getting more money but it's already been spent giving teachers up to a 20% pay rise so the money won't actually help schools / education one bit.
Boris not very good in parliament. That should not be a surprise to anyone who has been following politics for the last ten years.
I think Labour's position is actually now quite strong. If they can engineer an election after Boris has been humiliated by parliament blowing up his brain-dead 'do-or-die' deadline, Corbyn will have the best of both worlds: he'll be able to tell potential voters that Labour saw off the risk of a catastrophic Tory no-deal crash out, and be able with a moderately straight face to promise to come to a better relationship with the EU (the details can be left vague). Meanwhile he'll benefit from Farage laying in to Boris in exactly the same way he laid into Theresa May, for missing the self-imposed deadline.
Oh, and welcome to the club, @Big_G_NorthWales. Many more to come, I'm sure. Perhaps we'll see the Conservative Party reborn under a new name - the One Nation Party, perhaps.
That would be good to see, Richard. It seems the decent, sane and sensible grown-ups are rapidly departing a once-great institution.
Ordinarily this would be of niche interest, but note that the Alliance party look very close to gaining three more seats beyond the one predicted for them. The DUP will not relish heading to the electorate just now. That may affect their thinking about an early election.
Oh, and welcome to the club, @Big_G_NorthWales. Many more to come, I'm sure. Perhaps we'll see the Conservative Party reborn under a new name - the One Nation Party, perhaps.
Big_G to resign his conservative membership today?
I published my resignation letter early this morning on this forum
Don’t take this the wrong way, but isn’t this kind of thing, publishing resignation letters, announcing you are no longer posting on the site, long bios on Twitter, awfully vain and self important? Why do it?
Given the comments some posters on here (including me) have made about Big_G remaining a member of the tories while other previously more favourable of Boris had left - it was a worthwhile thing to post.
Both Big_G leaving (which must have been a seriously hard decision) and his reasons for doing so are valid posts and discussion topics on this site.
Worthwhile to mention leaving, yes. Publishing letters/ writing threads about it seems like attention seeking to me
Given that people on here have had a go at his position its perfectly fair for him to respond politely - and given that this is a betting sites it's useful albeit anecdotal information.
Who said he couldn’t respond politely? Publishing the letter/making it the subject of a thread header seems to me to be like playing at being an MP or resigning minister, who do such things on Twitter
Maybe not everybody's cup of tea but very entitled to and relevant to site and current state of politics etc. People here are interested that folks who have been members most of their life are throwing in the towel and leaving the Tories.
In fairness, Boris is still a novice at PMQs so may yet grow into the role. He should have taken a leaf out of Dave's book - start off looking conciliatory and statesmanlike. You can then expand your repertoire as your confidence grows.
All that said, I never really thought Boris was a particularly clear speaker, or got what people saw in him. Corbyn come across far more measured. He is more experienced I guess
What works on the panel show, and to some extent in person, fails on the big stage. Bluster just presents as bluster – it looks opaque and dishonest. It just doesn't work at all.
The law of unexpected consequences; Boris' contrasting style makes Corbyn look Prime Ministerial.
No it doesn't he looks in charge and committed to Brexit while Corbyn looks weak and indecisive
HYUFD - he is having a nightmare
I fear that your hopes for Boris may collide with reality
No he isn't, nobody watches PMQs bar political nerds like us, all that matters is Boris got his sound bites across e.g. Corbyn preferring to send money to the EU rather than spend it at home which can make brief clips on the news
All people will watch is the edited highlights and there are a lot of editable highlights - none that make Boris look any good.
Boris and Cummings need to tone down this thing of hectoring Jezza into agreeing a GE. It smacks of tantrums and impotent panic. The public don't understand the intricacies of the FTPA either so will just be bewildered as to why Jezza is being picked on.
The same Corbyn who has spent the last 2 years demanding a general election now a scaredy cat coward when offered one
Ordinarily this would be of niche interest, but note that the Alliance party look very close to gaining three more seats beyond the one predicted for them. The DUP will not relish heading to the electorate just now. That may affect their thinking about an early election.
Its about time, The current stranglehold of DUP/SF needs to be broken.
Big_G to resign his conservative membership today?
I published my resignation letter early this morning on this forum
Don’t take this the wrong way, but isn’t this kind of thing, publishing resignation letters, announcing you are no longer posting on the site, long bios on Twitter, awfully vain and self important? Why do it?
Given the comments some posters on here (including me) have made about Big_G remaining a member of the tories while other previously more favourable of Boris had left - it was a worthwhile thing to post.
Both Big_G leaving (which must have been a seriously hard decision) and his reasons for doing so are valid posts and discussion topics on this site.
Worthwhile to mention leaving, yes. Publishing letters/ writing threads about it seems like attention seeking to me
Given that people on here have had a go at his position its perfectly fair for him to respond politely - and given that this is a betting sites it's useful albeit anecdotal information.
Who said he couldn’t respond politely? Publishing the letter/making it the subject of a thread header seems to me to be like playing at being an MP or resigning minister, who do such things on Twitter
Maybe not everybody's cup of tea but very entitled to and relevant to site and current state of politics etc. People here are interested that folks who have been members most of their life are throwing in the towel and leaving the Tories.
I would have thought Conservatives would have done so with as little fuss as possible
All that said, I never really thought Boris was a particularly clear speaker, or got what people saw in him. Corbyn come across far more measured. He is more experienced I guess
What works on the panel show, and to some extent in person, fails on the big stage. Bluster just presents as bluster – it looks opaque and dishonest. It just doesn't work at all.
What works on a panel show works on a panel show as it is edited down (2-3 hours of filming down to 28 minutes). This will be 50 minutes down to 30 seconds of Boris looking like an idiot.
Boris and Cummings need to tone down this thing of hectoring Jezza into agreeing a GE. It smacks of tantrums and impotent panic. The public don't understand the intricacies of the FTPA either so will just be bewildered as to why Jezza is being picked on.
The same Corbyn who has spent the last 2 years demanding a general election now a scaredy cat coward when offered one
All that said, I never really thought Boris was a particularly clear speaker, or got what people saw in him. Corbyn come across far more measured. He is more experienced I guess
What works on the panel show, and to some extent in person, fails on the big stage. Bluster just presents as bluster – it looks opaque and dishonest. It just doesn't work at all.
It’s no different to how he was when debating Ken Livingstone on tv the first time he beat him to the Mayoralty 11 years ago.
Ordinarily this would be of niche interest, but note that the Alliance party look very close to gaining three more seats beyond the one predicted for them. The DUP will not relish heading to the electorate just now. That may affect their thinking about an early election.
That is quite good for the DUP actually, they only lose 1 seat, Belfast South to the Alliance and beat Sinn Fein in marginal Belfast North
Big_G to resign his conservative membership today?
I published my resignation letter early this morning on this forum
Don’t take this the wrong way, but isn’t this kind of thing (publishing resignation letters, announcing you are no longer posting on the site, long bios on Twitter) awfully vain and self important? Why do it?
Comments
Oh dear.
Now the 'war' has proliferated to involve our brave salmon and trout.
Could any of them be confident of holding their seat?
Both Big_G leaving (which must have been a seriously hard decision) and his reasons for doing so are valid posts and discussion topics on this site.
But I respect your decision. I faced the same difficult choice when May was elected and made the same decision as you did.
I wasn't an adult or a member in Major's day but did you disagree with Major removing the whip from Rupert Allason? Had Bill Cash or John Redwood voted against Major on the Maastricht Confidence vote would you have opposed them being thrown out?
https://twitter.com/soniastolper/status/1169207067598622720?s=20
Question is, are there enough of them?
outrage 3,2,1.
Jezza will get a stonking majority after a few months of Bozo PMQs and running from interviews.
Don't forget this spending review is look we are giving the things you care about more money - but in reality it isn't going to do anything. Education is a prime example on one level schools are getting more money but it's already been spent giving teachers up to a 20% pay rise so the money won't actually help schools / education one bit.
I fear that your hopes for Boris may collide with reality
And most of tomorrow.
Plato (RIP) often said something along the lines of ‘they need to win over people like me’ about political parties, which made me cringe equally
Alastair is right about Sturgeon and if no referendum she is a goner for sure.
Hi Malc,
I don't doubt the enthusiasm of The National readership et al, I do doubt the enthusiasm of the general populace for being put through it all again. Brexit has not been a great advertisement for Westminster rule, I grant you, but it is also a warning about what happens when you embark on major constitutional change.
Sturgeon is surely safe as houses. Who on earth would lead a charge against her?
I seriously doubt she will not be challenged if she does not have a referendum next year. A lot of people getting impatient.
Those who rebelled yesterday knew what they were doing.
"A bit rich from a member of the party whose shadow chancellor said 'Business is the enemy'"
Remind me, Boris, have you ever said anything along those lines? Anything remotely similar?
However I do not accept yesterday was a vote of confidence
I was asked to stand as a Conservative Councillor in 1966 when I was 22 and had just started running my own business. I was unable to do so due to my commitments but have supported the party in many ways since, especially at GE's though only actually joining 3 years ago
https://twitter.com/BpsmithUk/status/1169211484892749824?s=19
Love you brother x
LOL
Insert Rees-Mogg photo here.
https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1169216652493426688
https://twitter.com/LucidTalk/status/1169214803266719744
Ordinarily this would be of niche interest, but note that the Alliance party look very close to gaining three more seats beyond the one predicted for them. The DUP will not relish heading to the electorate just now. That may affect their thinking about an early election.
What works on the panel show, and to some extent in person, fails on the big stage. Bluster just presents as bluster – it looks opaque and dishonest. It just doesn't work at all.
https://twitter.com/PCollinsTimes/status/1169218100744654848