I noted Boris also referred to Gauke and Grieve as "my right honourable friend".
Johnson is someone who thinks we can leave the EU without it affecting our relationships with European countries, so it wouldn’t be a surprise to learn that he thinks he can kick people out of the party and still count on their loyalty.
I heard Grieve come as close as it is possible without actually shouting "LIAR" in his face, tell Boris he was a liar, with his question on the prorogation.
Classic.
I wonder how or if it will matter if the liar tag sticks to Boris. Perhaps not in these febrile times, just one more ingredient in the rancid pot.
This is already factored in, only Blair can outTeflon him.
In fairness Bercow was letting the Saj ramble on but had to intervene when Ken Clarke raised a point of order. Now he no longer has the whip it will be interesting to see what Ken gets up to.
People don't seem to understand that if the Tory ministers can't do and say whatever they want regardless of procedure or the rules, and someone pulls them up on it, it's unforgivable bias.
Was following the Cricket, so can somebody tell me how the Blonde Bombshell got on? Sensible and impartial answers only please.
Poorly. He looks out of his depth. I hope my answer is sensible and impartial given my views on Brexit. I would love Boris to succeed but he has given no indication so far that he has what is needed.
I really have doubts that he can win a majority, indeed whether he can survive the aftermath of an indecisive GE
You are no longer a Tory but a LD in all but name now so no surprise there
Absolutely, if Ken Clarke and Rory Stewart are not conservatives in your eyes it is not they or I who have lost our marbles, but you have become a Farage sycophant
No disrespect Big G but if youre on a cruise shouldnt you be relaxing and enjoying it ? Really nothing much will have changed on here by the time you get back, nor can anyone on this site change much. Give Mrs G a break :-)
It seems that it is holiday season on PB - cruises, typing on iPads by pools in 35 degrees. Wasn't Malcolm on a cruise the other day?
I really have doubts that he can win a majority, indeed whether he can survive the aftermath of an indecisive GE
You are no longer a Tory but a LD in all but name now so no surprise there
Absolutely, if Ken Clarke and Rory Stewart are not conservatives in your eyes it is not they or I who have lost our marbles, but you have become a Farage sycophant
No disrespect Big G but if youre on a cruise shouldnt you be relaxing and enjoying it ? Really nothing much will have changed on here by the time you get back, nor can anyone on this site change much. Give Mrs G a break :-)
I sail on Saturday 14th September and with parliament prorogued no politics until the 9th Oct and lots of time with my lady wife doing what we like best, being at sea ( bit like the conservative party just now)
In fairness Bercow was letting the Saj ramble on but had to intervene when Ken Clarke raised a point of order. Now he no longer has the whip it will be interesting to see what Ken gets up to.
Something about micturition and tents springs to mind.
I said on this site about a year ago that the Tories would never get Brexit through with Bercow as Speaker.They had to get rid of him when they had the chance over the abuse scandal .For this I was roundly abused by some of the more aggressive Remainers on here . Bercow is about to become a lightning rod of hate for Parliament when the GE comes and is phrased as Parliament v the People.He has done more damage to our Parliamentary democracy than anyone I can think of.
Also hearing PMQs reminded me of Trump in the debates. It was awful: He ignored the questions and just waffled and repeated talking points.
But he kept hitting the talking points. And the talking points were tested to reach the voters he needed, whereas the "gives cogent answers and answers the sodding question" vote is probably not a key swing demographic.
This is how Blair was successful. Answer the questions you want to hear.
The thing about Blair is that he was adding an extra layer of non-traditional Labour voters to the existing core of 35-40% Labour voters fed up with 18 years of Tories. Also, something that's widely forgotten is that the biggest change in 1997 was not that Labour added masses of new voters but that lots of Tories didn't turn out.
Johnson is essentially trying to replace the traditional mainstream Tories like Richard N and BigG (to whom genuine sympathies for what must have been a painful decision) with new voters who haven't voted Tory before. With Farage fishing in the same pool, it's not obvious that it will work, and we won't really know till we see who turns out on election day.
I really have doubts that he can win a majority, indeed whether he can survive the aftermath of an indecisive GE
You are no longer a Tory but a LD in all but name now so no surprise there
Absolutely, if Ken Clarke and Rory Stewart are not conservatives in your eyes it is not they or I who have lost our marbles, but you have become a Farage sycophant
No disrespect Big G but if youre on a cruise shouldnt you be relaxing and enjoying it ? Really nothing much will have changed on here by the time you get back, nor can anyone on this site change much. Give Mrs G a break :-)
I sail on Saturday 14th September and with parliament prorogued no politics until the 9th Oct and lots of time with my lady wife doing what we like best, being at sea ( bit like the conservative party just now)
Camp 1: Isn’t Boris terrible, what a hoot that was seeing someone call him a racist. Worst. PMQs. Ever! What a good decision I made ages ago never to vote for him.
Camp 2: gawd, who was that idiot riding on the outage bus? Good old Boris, he’ll get things done and show that chlorinated chicken Corbyn what for.
Camp 3: hello? Is anyone else there? You there! Yes, over here!
Rinse, repeat until whatever year Boris stands down. Yawn.
Don't know about that, but certainly not CoE material.
Wonder why he got the job?
Is it because he was the only bald man in cabinet and Johnson wanted to show he was not prejudiced?
Johnson gave jobs to all of the other candidates for the Tory leadership who were willing to toe his no deal line - Gove, Raab, McVey, Leadsom, Hancock and Javid.
I think the only two not to be in Cabinet are Stewart - who lost the whip voting against no deal yesterday - and Hunt - who wouldn't accept a demotion.
Maybe Javid is showing that Truss would have made a better Chancellor, but it's not that exceptional to give a senior Cabinet role to a leadership rival.
I really have doubts that he can win a majority, indeed whether he can survive the aftermath of an indecisive GE
You are no longer a Tory but a LD in all but name now so no surprise there
And your a disgrace for picking on lifelong sensible Tories just to support a buffoon
BigG has already resigned his party membership, is a Republican and opposes Brexit Deal or No Deal.
He is now by definition a LD not a Tory
I support TM deal, always have always will and I am not a liberal democrat.
You back extension over No Deal Brexit, you can still prefer a Deal but oppose further extension and be a Tory but if not you are now really a LD
And you are a Remainer without a party to go to oh no wait. You can go to the LDs. They are the party of Remain. You as a diehard remainer should perhaps give them a go as, and this is the key bit, you agree with their policy on the most important issue of the day and you don't agree with the Tories' policy on the same thing.
Such a level of increased spending should ensure that we avoid a recession next year. It should push growth up by more than 2%. It seems that austerity has truly died.
I really have doubts that he can win a majority, indeed whether he can survive the aftermath of an indecisive GE
You are no longer a Tory but a LD in all but name now so no surprise there
Absolutely, if Ken Clarke and Rory Stewart are not conservatives in your eyes it is not they or I who have lost our marbles, but you have become a Farage sycophant
No disrespect Big G but if youre on a cruise shouldnt you be relaxing and enjoying it ? Really nothing much will have changed on here by the time you get back, nor can anyone on this site change much. Give Mrs G a break :-)
It seems that it is holiday season on PB - cruises, typing on iPads by pools in 35 degrees. Wasn't Malcolm on a cruise the other day?
Don't we all live the life.
TBF, Big_G is about the same age as Biden and Sanders...
I do not relish going into bat on the government’s behalf here, but there is increasingly a bit of an echo chamber on here and in the tweets I see posted.
Yes, the government has fallen apart. Yes, it’s all a bit of a mess. Yes, Johnson is a prat.
BUT
There will soon be a dissolution and election (how soon is up to Labour). Boris is going into that election targeting a very different type of vote than is (sorry to generalise) largely represented on this site or in the media. He is going for the “I voted to leave and you haven’t done it yet” crowd. He is running, as people have said, a parliament v people election. I don’t think he’s too bothered about what parliament thinks about him right now.
The big question is whether that will be enough to see him home and dry but we should not count him out. He is currently ahead in the polls by varying margins.
I do think there is an element of complacency creeping in, that he will drop the ball like TMay did and lose the election. That is far from certain.
This.
Also hearing PMQs reminded me of Trump in the debates. It was awful: He ignored the questions and just waffled and repeated talking points.
But he kept hitting the talking points. And the talking points were tested to reach the voters he needed, whereas the "gives cogent answers and answers the sodding question" vote is probably not a key swing demographic.
This is how Blair was successful. Answer the questions you want to hear.
I really have doubts that he can win a majority, indeed whether he can survive the aftermath of an indecisive GE
You are no longer a Tory but a LD in all but name now so no surprise there
And you are no longer a Tory. Because Tories want a no deal Brexit and you don't want a no deal Brexit. You want to remain and voted for remain hence you are a diehard remainer. You have precious little in common with the current Tory party.
Go find yourself another party because the Tories espouse a policy, their flagship policy, that you vehemently disagree with.
I back Brexit Deal or No Deal any Remainer who does and respects the Leave vote is still a Tory
You don't back Brexit deal or no deal. You back remain. Just because the party changed from underneath you doesn't mean that your opinions changed. You are a remainer. A diehard Remainer because on the one occasion that it mattered, the one time that you were able to register your vote formally, you voted Remain. You are, if I may be so bold as to use your own vernacular, a traitor.
And it doesn't please me to say this because I know you to be someone of the utmost integrity who would under no circumstances contemplate floating in the political wind and changing their mind on matters of principle.
The really is such a load of turgid old bollocks I have no idea why you keep repeating it.
I think HYUFD is sadly mistaken in his faith in polls or in the prospects for his party but he does have the undeniable quality of being a democrat. The public voted Leave and in spite of his original views he thinks respecting that result is the most important political issue at the moment. It ix a position to be admired not scorned.
Big_G to resign his conservative membership today?
I published my resignation letter early this morning on this forum
Don’t take this the wrong way, but isn’t this kind of thing, publishing resignation letters, announcing you are no longer posting on the site, long bios on Twitter, awfully vain and self important? Why do it?
Given the comments some posters on here (including me) have made about Big_G remaining a member of the tories while other previously more favourable of Boris had left - it was a worthwhile thing to post.
Both Big_G leaving (which must have been a seriously hard decision) and his reasons for doing so are valid posts and discussion topics on this site.
Worthwhile to mention leaving, yes. Publishing letters/ writing threads about it seems like attention seeking to me
Given that people on here have had a go at his position its perfectly fair for him to respond politely - and given that this is a betting sites it's useful albeit anecdotal information.
Who said he couldn’t respond politely? Publishing the letter/making it the subject of a thread header seems to me to be like playing at being an MP or resigning minister, who do such things on Twitter
Maybe not everybody's cup of tea but very entitled to and relevant to site and current state of politics etc. People here are interested that folks who have been members most of their life are throwing in the towel and leaving the Tories.
What's more we have had thread headers from SO about his joining and leaving Labour under Corbyn, which have been interesting.
Insight from those like him, @NickPalmer@david_herdson who are practitioners and not just commentators is valuable, interesting and one of the best things about this site. Attacking people personally adds nothing.
There has been some somewhat unpleasant criticism of those who write headers. Criticism is absolutely fine but if people don't like what is published they should offer their own articles rather than simply carp. @Philip_Thompson and @MarqueeMark, who are both very much Leavers, did so and produced two very fine headers.
Nobody's mentioned Jo Swinson, who I didn't really rate before but I thought she was surprisingly and ferociously effective. Is it just me?
No, she appears to be improving steadily. (I'm not sure I'd go as far as ferocious.)
I didn't think she was great at PMQs, but she does seem to be good at politicking (although I know many people have left the party over the LGBTQ record of their new MP, Lee)
I really have doubts that he can win a majority, indeed whether he can survive the aftermath of an indecisive GE
You are no longer a Tory but a LD in all but name now so no surprise there
And your a disgrace for picking on lifelong sensible Tories just to support a buffoon
BigG has already resigned his party membership, is a Republican and opposes Brexit Deal or No Deal.
He is now by definition a LD not a Tory
I support TM deal, always have always will and I am not a liberal democrat.
You back extension over No Deal Brexit, you can still prefer a Deal but oppose further extension and be a Tory but if not you are now really a LD
And you are like the loud and foul mouthed football supporter shouting his head off at the front of the terraces. Insisting that every fair tackle is a foul and every ball that goes into touch came off an opponent. You claim to be a passionate supporter of the home team but to most of the fans who have also been supporters for years, you are a boorish embarrasment.
If were back to shouting racist the Opposition havent got a plan.
The opposition don't need a plan - they just need the phrase "Boris is racist" in the back of some people's minds.
The people whose minds that might influence already have no intention of voting Boris. The only way I can see that working is if the return of PC name calling bollox gives more ammo to Farage. And then its anyones guess who benefits.
Boris Johnsin has spent his entire political life avoiding any kind of detailed scrutiny. He even wants to close Parliament down to escape it. Yesterday and today the world has found out why.
I don’t like the guy but this is getting absolutely ridiculous.
It's Scott P frantically refreshing twitter from his mum's basement so take it with a pinch of salt. He was much better today than he was yesterday and had Corbyn on the backfoot.
Boris Johnsin has spent his entire political life avoiding any kind of detailed scrutiny. He even wants to close Parliament down to escape it. Yesterday and today the world has found out why.
Except he wants a General Election. What more scrutiny can there be than that?
Nobody's mentioned Jo Swinson, who I didn't really rate before but I thought she was surprisingly and ferociously effective. Is it just me?
I thought she was ok. The heartfelt style isn't really what PMQs runs on, but it will go down very well in a TV debate. But she needs to stop waving her right arm up and down with every word.
Was following the Cricket, so can somebody tell me how the Blonde Bombshell got on? Sensible and impartial answers only please.
Poorly. He looks out of his depth. I hope my answer is sensible and impartial given my views on Brexit. I would love Boris to succeed but he has given no indication so far that he has what is needed.
Sounds about right - though some sense of proportion is needed about how much one performance matters. Of course, should he maintain this form through the general election to come, it might move the dial slightly.
I'm at work and not watching Parliament, but from the reaction here it sounds like Boris and Sajid are being so deliberately crap that it can only be because they are about to VoNC themselves. Can they so amend this evening's motion? Are they trying to goad someone else into doing it?
Boris Johnsin has spent his entire political life avoiding any kind of detailed scrutiny. He even wants to close Parliament down to escape it. Yesterday and today the world has found out why.
Five weeks of Boris Johnson explaining how a No Deal Brexit will work is a prospect that can only appeal to sadists.
I really have doubts that he can win a majority, indeed whether he can survive the aftermath of an indecisive GE
You are no longer a Tory but a LD in all but name now so no surprise there
Absolutely, if Ken Clarke and Rory Stewart are not conservatives in your eyes it is not they or I who have lost our marbles, but you have become a Farage sycophant
No disrespect Big G but if youre on a cruise shouldnt you be relaxing and enjoying it ? Really nothing much will have changed on here by the time you get back, nor can anyone on this site change much. Give Mrs G a break :-)
I sail on Saturday 14th September and with parliament prorogued no politics until the 9th Oct and lots of time with my lady wife doing what we like best, being at sea ( bit like the conservative party just now)
In calmer waters I hope!
Likely not as we are crossing the Atlantic over 5 days but we are well versed in sailing in storm force and hurricane seas over many years of international cruising
If were back to shouting racist the Opposition havent got a plan.
The opposition don't need a plan - they just need the phrase "Boris is racist" in the back of some people's minds.
The people whose minds that might influence already have no intention of voting Boris. The only way I can see that working is if the return of PC name calling bollox gives more ammo to Farage. And then its anyones guess who benefits.
I think there is a demographic of british-asian leave voters in some Labour seats (Bradford, Stoke, Burnley, Leicester) that this plays to and Boris needs those votes to win those seats.
I really have doubts that he can win a majority, indeed whether he can survive the aftermath of an indecisive GE
You are no longer a Tory but a LD in all but name now so no surprise there
And your a disgrace for picking on lifelong sensible Tories just to support a buffoon
BigG has already resigned his party membership, is a Republican and opposes Brexit Deal or No Deal.
He is now by definition a LD not a Tory
I support TM deal, always have always will and I am not a liberal democrat.
You back extension over No Deal Brexit, you can still prefer a Deal but oppose further extension and be a Tory but if not you are now really a LD
And you are like the loud and foul mouthed football supporter shouting his head off at the front of the terraces. Insisting that every fair tackle is a foul and every ball that goes into touch came off an opponent. You claim to be a passionate supporter of the home team but to most of the fans who have also been supporters for years, you are a boorish embarrasment.
Just as a matter of interest, wondering how she'll get on, when do we have Questions to the Home Secretary? There are, after all, considerable concerns over the treatment of foreign national resident in this country.
I really have doubts that he can win a majority, indeed whether he can survive the aftermath of an indecisive GE
You are no longer a Tory but a LD in all but name now so no surprise there
Absolutely, if Ken Clarke and Rory Stewart are not conservatives in your eyes it is not they or I who have lost our marbles, but you have become a Farage sycophant
No disrespect Big G but if youre on a cruise shouldnt you be relaxing and enjoying it ? Really nothing much will have changed on here by the time you get back, nor can anyone on this site change much. Give Mrs G a break :-)
It seems that it is holiday season on PB - cruises, typing on iPads by pools in 35 degrees. Wasn't Malcolm on a cruise the other day?
Don't we all live the life.
TBF, Big_G is about the same age as Biden and Sanders...
Interesting in work yesterday with not a single person criticizing Johnson but a good number showing anger at MPs generally for a perceived lack of respect towards voters and dishonesty about their true intentions.
These sorts of people are professionals, politically engaged, top couple of percent earners, widely travelled, remain voters.
The exact sort of people in fact that the Tories should be toxic to if you were to believe the consensus on here.
Anecdotal of course and I may well just be engaging with outliers but if a sample of 10 or so indicates anything it might well be that there is going to be a shock at the next GE.
If were back to shouting racist the Opposition havent got a plan.
The opposition don't need a plan - they just need the phrase "Boris is racist" in the back of some people's minds.
The people whose minds that might influence already have no intention of voting Boris. The only way I can see that working is if the return of PC name calling bollox gives more ammo to Farage. And then its anyones guess who benefits.
Yes, it's a foolish line of attack on Boris. No-one is going to be persuaded by it. Quite apart from anything else, it doesn't seem to be true; the only 'evidence' for it is some colourful phrases he used. But everyone knows that Boris coins colourful phrases; it's what he does. You're not meant to take them seriously or assume that he's actually trying to say anything.
Also hearing PMQs reminded me of Trump in the debates. It was awful: He ignored the questions and just waffled and repeated talking points.
But he kept hitting the talking points. And the talking points were tested to reach the voters he needed, whereas the "gives cogent answers and answers the sodding question" vote is probably not a key swing demographic.
This is how Blair was successful. Answer the questions you want to hear.
The thing about Blair is that he was adding an extra layer of non-traditional Labour voters to the existing core of 35-40% Labour voters fed up with 18 years of Tories. Also, something that's widely forgotten is that the biggest change in 1997 was not that Labour added masses of new voters but that lots of Tories didn't turn out.
Johnson is essentially trying to replace the traditional mainstream Tories like Richard N and BigG (to whom genuine sympathies for what must have been a painful decision) with new voters who haven't voted Tory before. With Farage fishing in the same pool, it's not obvious that it will work, and we won't really know till we see who turns out on election day.
Johnson is actively pushing away loyal Tories in the Clarke/Major mould. Quite an interesting step for a party leader - lose lifetime loyalists whose votes are guaranteed and try to replace them with voters with residual loyalty to other parties and looser allegiances.
The really is such a load of turgid old bollocks I have no idea why you keep repeating it.
I think HYUFD is sadly mistaken in his faith in polls or in the prospects for his party but he does have the undeniable quality of being a democrat. The public voted Leave and in spite of his original views he thinks respecting that result is the most important political issue at the moment. It ix a position to be admired not scorned.
He disagrees vehemently with the flagship policy of the Conservative party and yet continues to support that party.
I mean what on earth is politics about if not to find a party that most closely reflects your own views and then support it. The Tory party's policy on Brexit, the only game in town now I think we can all agree, is one with which he disagrees. And yet he says he still supports the party.
Well he just can't. One can't support a party whose central and most important policy is one which one disagrees with.
What he certainly can't do, if he does want to hold on to that absurd position, is to tell other people what party they are or should be in.
It is an extraordinary achievement for Britain's first prime minister with Muslim ancestry to be so widely regarded as a racist.
Johnson's racism does not derive from some inherent belief that one race or group is inferior to another, it is much more that he is very happy to demean races or groups for political advantage and to give or share platforms to those who do believe in racial superiority.
Johnson gave jobs to all of the other candidates for the Tory leadership who were willing to toe his no deal line - Gove, Raab, McVey, Leadsom, Hancock and Javid.
I think the only two not to be in Cabinet are Stewart - who lost the whip voting against no deal yesterday - and Hunt - who wouldn't accept a demotion.
Maybe Javid is showing that Truss would have made a better Chancellor, but it's not that exceptional to give a senior Cabinet role to a leadership rival.
Ok, perhaps it is my pocket talking.
I was on Truss. I thought Boris would wish to have the 1st female chance.
If were back to shouting racist the Opposition havent got a plan.
The opposition don't need a plan - they just need the phrase "Boris is racist" in the back of some people's minds.
The people whose minds that might influence already have no intention of voting Boris. The only way I can see that working is if the return of PC name calling bollox gives more ammo to Farage. And then its anyones guess who benefits.
I think there is a demographic of british-asian leave voters in some Labour seats that this plays to and Boris needs those votes to win those seats.
probably the most "racist" ( cultural really ) experience I have ever had was listening to a Sikh friend with his Hindu mate start talking about muslims.
It made anything Id seen in Ulster pale in to insignificance. The view that UK Asians will all vote the same way seems lazy.
Big_G to resign his conservative membership today?
I published my resignation letter early this morning on this forum
Don’t take this the wrong way, but isn’t this kind of thing, publishing resignation letters, announcing you are no longer posting on the site, long bios on Twitter, awfully vain and self important? Why do it?
Given the comments some posters on here (including me) have made about Big_G remaining a member of the tories while other previously more favourable of Boris had left - it was a worthwhile thing to post.
Both Big_G leaving (which must have been a seriously hard decision) and his reasons for doing so are valid posts and discussion topics on this site.
Worthwhile to mention leaving, yes. Publishing letters/ writing threads about it seems like attention seeking to me
Given that people on here have had a go at his position its perfectly fair for him to respond politely - and given that this is a betting sites it's useful albeit anecdotal information.
Who said he couldn’t respond politely? Publishing the letter/making it the subject of a thread header seems to me to be like playing at being an MP or resigning minister, who do such things on Twitter
Maybe not everybody's cup of tea but very entitled to and relevant to site and current state of politics etc. People here are interested that folks who have been members most of their life are throwing in the towel and leaving the Tories.
What's more we have had thread headers from SO about his joining and leaving Labour under Corbyn, which have been interesting.
Insight from those like him, @NickPalmer@david_herdson who are practitioners and not just commentators is valuable, interesting and one of the best things about this site. Attacking people personally adds nothing.
There has been some somewhat unpleasant criticism of those who write headers. Criticism is absolutely fine but if people don't like what is published they should offer their own articles rather than simply carp. @Philip_Thompson and @MarqueeMark, who are both very much Leavers, did so and produced two very fine headers.
If people want to stick their head above the parapet they should be able to handle mild criticism. I found the other threads you mention equally self indulgent. Am I allowed a view?
I don’t like the guy but this is getting absolutely ridiculous.
Interesting observation. He and JRM will struggle to recover in parliamentary terms the hash they made of yesterday and his poor showing at PMQs just seems like a continuation. A little like an innings collapse.
You are right it is not going to finish or start to finish him but they have to hold it together for an election campaign - and the early signs do not look good at all. If that goes badly he will be finished and in the current febrile times does that look so unlikely?
One thing he and Cummings have done is create a situation where the rebel alliance and Labour are managing cordial joint meetings with strategy emerging as a result. Unthinkable say two weeks ago. 2019 on a coupon election will trump (excuse the pun) 2016 and Farage can still wreck all the best laid plans for the Tories. Nigel is a shit and will of course do so. All to play for.
PB used to be a great way of assessing public opinion, as it offered a uniquely wide spectrum of well informed viewpoints. Sadly, this is yet another victim of Brexit.
It is impossible to get a grasp of how Boris is REALLY doing, because 95% of you are crazed by your hatred of him, and the other 5% therefore feel obliged to put up a desperate defence of him, whatever he does.
I'm at work and not watching Parliament, but from the reaction here it sounds like Boris and Sajid are being so deliberately crap that it can only be because they are about to VoNC themselves. Can they so amend this evening's motion? Are they trying to goad someone else into doing it?
Well, from what I've read, they should be able stop the Benn bill quite easily by not requesting Queen's consent. Their argument for an early election is that the Benn bill, if passed, would have forced them to do it.
So if they really want Brexit, why don't they just refuse to request consent, and carry on regardless? Because they are desperate for a way out of the corner they've painted themselves into, and want to be relieved of the responsibility for a No Deal Brexit, either by an electoral mandate for it, or by defeat in an election?
PB used to be a great way of assessing public opinion, as it offered a uniquely wide spectrum of well informed viewpoints. Sadly, this is yet another victim of Brexit.
It is impossible to get a grasp of how Boris is REALLY doing, because 95% of you are crazed by your hatred of him, and the other 5% therefore feel obliged to put up a desperate defence of him, whatever he does.
Shame. I shall have to rely on polls.
What you on about? There’s more balance here than most places.
Was following the Cricket, so can somebody tell me how the Blonde Bombshell got on? Sensible and impartial answers only please.
Poorly. He looks out of his depth. I hope my answer is sensible and impartial given my views on Brexit. I would love Boris to succeed but he has given no indication so far that he has what is needed.
Sounds about right - though some sense of proportion is needed about how much one performance matters. Of course, should he maintain this form through the general election to come, it might move the dial slightly.
PB used to be a great way of assessing public opinion, as it offered a uniquely wide spectrum of well informed viewpoints. Sadly, this is yet another victim of Brexit.
It is impossible to get a grasp of how Boris is REALLY doing, because 95% of you are crazed by your hatred of him, and the other 5% therefore feel obliged to put up a desperate defence of him, whatever he does.
Shame. I shall have to rely on polls.
What you on about? There’s more balance here than most places.
What's more we have had thread headers from SO about his joining and leaving Labour under Corbyn, which have been interesting.
Insight from those like him, @NickPalmer@david_herdson who are practitioners and not just commentators is valuable, interesting and one of the best things about this site. Attacking people personally adds nothing.
There has been some somewhat unpleasant criticism of those who write headers. Criticism is absolutely fine but if people don't like what is published they should offer their own articles rather than simply carp. @Philip_Thompson and @MarqueeMark, who are both very much Leavers, did so and produced two very fine headers.
If people want to stick their head above the parapet they should be able to handle mild criticism. I found the other threads you mention equally self indulgent. Am I allowed a view?
I'm rather confused why you are commenting then?
I come here for an exchange of views. People posting their views is basically the point it seems to me. If nobody did this would be one very hollow site.
Boris Johnsin has spent his entire political life avoiding any kind of detailed scrutiny. He even wants to close Parliament down to escape it. Yesterday and today the world has found out why.
Except he wants a General Election. What more scrutiny can there be than that?
He doesn't ant a general election, he said so. But when one happens he will do almost no in-depth live interviews, he will do the minimum of press conferences and he will not debate the other leaders. It's how he has always operated.
PB used to be a great way of assessing public opinion, as it offered a uniquely wide spectrum of well informed viewpoints. Sadly, this is yet another victim of Brexit.
It is impossible to get a grasp of how Boris is REALLY doing, because 95% of you are crazed by your hatred of him, and the other 5% therefore feel obliged to put up a desperate defence of him, whatever he does.
Shame. I shall have to rely on polls.
What you on about? There’s more balance here than most places.
I really have doubts that he can win a majority, indeed whether he can survive the aftermath of an indecisive GE
You are no longer a Tory but a LD in all but name now so no surprise there
And your a disgrace for picking on lifelong sensible Tories just to support a buffoon
BigG has already resigned his party membership, is a Republican and opposes Brexit Deal or No Deal.
He is now by definition a LD not a Tory
After last night, surely we're getting to the point where still being a Tory is a mark of certifiable insanity?
No it is a mark of respecting the will of the people
No-deal is not respecting the "will-o-the-people". You have no real idea on what the current view of the electorate is on no-deal as your idol is frit of a referendum to find out. By the way, told you he was crap lol!!
Nobody's mentioned Jo Swinson, who I didn't really rate before but I thought she was surprisingly and ferociously effective. Is it just me?
I thought she was ok. The heartfelt style isn't really what PMQs runs on, but it will go down very well in a TV debate. But she needs to stop waving her right arm up and down with every word.
Thought she was a bit underwhelming last nite, but she's newish in the job and may grow into it. In any case, the LDs will fail or prosper on their Remain USP pretty much regardless of her performances.
PB used to be a great way of assessing public opinion, as it offered a uniquely wide spectrum of well informed viewpoints. Sadly, this is yet another victim of Brexit.
It is impossible to get a grasp of how Boris is REALLY doing, because 95% of you are crazed by your hatred of him, and the other 5% therefore feel obliged to put up a desperate defence of him, whatever he does.
Shame. I shall have to rely on polls.
Polls say he's doing fine to be fair.
Till you look at the subsample of Scottish remain voters who voted Green at the last election where he is universally reviled.
Very election focused one year spending review. Still unconvinced that there are enough genuinely no deal voters to give Boris a majority. And even if they lead the polls now Corbyn could surprise again.
PB used to be a great way of assessing public opinion, as it offered a uniquely wide spectrum of well informed viewpoints. Sadly, this is yet another victim of Brexit.
It is impossible to get a grasp of how Boris is REALLY doing, because 95% of you are crazed by your hatred of him, and the other 5% therefore feel obliged to put up a desperate defence of him, whatever he does.
Shame. I shall have to rely on polls.
Indeed. It's a shame. Hopefully when Brexit is decided one way or another PB will go back to how it was between 2005 and 2016.
I didn't see PMQs but from the tidbits I saw on the news Boris won't be unhappy with how his soundbites came out and nor' will Corbyn.
What's more we have had thread headers from SO about his joining and leaving Labour under Corbyn, which have been interesting.
Insight from those like him, @NickPalmer@david_herdson who are practitioners and not just commentators is valuable, interesting and one of the best things about this site. Attacking people personally adds nothing.
There has been some somewhat unpleasant criticism of those who write headers. Criticism is absolutely fine but if people don't like what is published they should offer their own articles rather than simply carp. @Philip_Thompson and @MarqueeMark, who are both very much Leavers, did so and produced two very fine headers.
If people want to stick their head above the parapet they should be able to handle mild criticism. I found the other threads you mention equally self indulgent. Am I allowed a view?
I'm rather confused why you are commenting then?
I come here for an exchange of views. People posting their views is basically the point it seems to me. If nobody did this would be one very hollow site.
Exchanging views on politics is not the same as writing essays about oneself. I just find making a song and dance about private matters a bit cringeworthy and self important, that’s all. Maybe I’m guilty of doing so here!
When people resigned from parties 30 years ago, if they photocopied their resignation letter and passed it around the pub, it would be a vanity act. I don’t see much difference with that and writing headers about it or reposting it online.
Boris Johnsin has spent his entire political life avoiding any kind of detailed scrutiny. He even wants to close Parliament down to escape it. Yesterday and today the world has found out why.
Except he wants a General Election. What more scrutiny can there be than that?
He doesn't ant a general election, he said so. But when one happens he will do almost no in-depth live interviews, he will do the minimum of press conferences and he will not debate the other leaders. It's how he has always operated.
He did extremely well in the last Referendum Debate and his rallying cry at the end delivered alot of votes and enthusiasm for Leave.You underestimate him at your peril,
Comments
Wonder why he got the job?
Is it because he was the only bald man in cabinet and Johnson wanted to show he was not prejudiced?
Johnson makes May & Corbyn look good.
Javid makes Brown look witty and scintillating....
Was it so old that it was founded before punctuation was invented, and never kept up with the times?
occasionally :-)
Or perhaps not because I'm against it even when it has nothing to do with Islam.
No-one loves a usurper.
Johnson is essentially trying to replace the traditional mainstream Tories like Richard N and BigG (to whom genuine sympathies for what must have been a painful decision) with new voters who haven't voted Tory before. With Farage fishing in the same pool, it's not obvious that it will work, and we won't really know till we see who turns out on election day.
Camp 2: gawd, who was that idiot riding on the outage bus? Good old Boris, he’ll get things done and show that chlorinated chicken Corbyn what for.
Camp 3: hello? Is anyone else there? You there! Yes, over here!
Rinse, repeat until whatever year Boris stands down. Yawn.
I think the only two not to be in Cabinet are Stewart - who lost the whip voting against no deal yesterday - and Hunt - who wouldn't accept a demotion.
Maybe Javid is showing that Truss would have made a better Chancellor, but it's not that exceptional to give a senior Cabinet role to a leadership rival.
(I'm not sure I'd go as far as ferocious.)
According to the Wiki chart, the Lib Dem poll ratings are not exactly soaring.
I think HYUFD is sadly mistaken in his faith in polls or in the prospects for his party but he does have the undeniable quality of being a democrat. The public voted Leave and in spite of his original views he thinks respecting that result is the most important political issue at the moment. It ix a position to be admired not scorned.
Insight from those like him, @NickPalmer @david_herdson who are practitioners and not just commentators is valuable, interesting and one of the best things about this site. Attacking people personally adds nothing.
There has been some somewhat unpleasant criticism of those who write headers. Criticism is absolutely fine but if people don't like what is published they should offer their own articles rather than simply carp. @Philip_Thompson and @MarqueeMark, who are both very much Leavers, did so and produced two very fine headers.
I don’t like the guy but this is getting absolutely ridiculous.
Puerile and a touch embarrassing. Certainly inappropriate for here.
Suggest you edit out.
Will you do that for me?
Of course, should he maintain this form through the general election to come, it might move the dial slightly.
These sorts of people are professionals, politically engaged, top couple of percent earners, widely travelled, remain voters.
The exact sort of people in fact that the Tories should be toxic to if you were to believe the consensus on here.
Anecdotal of course and I may well just be engaging with outliers but if a sample of 10 or so indicates anything it might well be that there is going to be a shock at the next GE.
Quite apart from anything else, it doesn't seem to be true; the only 'evidence' for it is some colourful phrases he used. But everyone knows that Boris coins colourful phrases; it's what he does. You're not meant to take them seriously or assume that he's actually trying to say anything.
I mean what on earth is politics about if not to find a party that most closely reflects your own views and then support it. The Tory party's policy on Brexit, the only game in town now I think we can all agree, is one with which he disagrees. And yet he says he still supports the party.
Well he just can't. One can't support a party whose central and most important policy is one which one disagrees with.
What he certainly can't do, if he does want to hold on to that absurd position, is to tell other people what party they are or should be in.
I was on Truss. I thought Boris would wish to have the 1st female chance.
It made anything Id seen in Ulster pale in to insignificance. The view that UK Asians will all vote the same way seems lazy.
You are right it is not going to finish or start to finish him but they have to hold it together for an election campaign - and the early signs do not look good at all. If that goes badly he will be finished and in the current febrile times does that look so unlikely?
One thing he and Cummings have done is create a situation where the rebel alliance and Labour are managing cordial joint meetings with strategy emerging as a result. Unthinkable say two weeks ago. 2019 on a coupon election will trump (excuse the pun) 2016 and Farage can still wreck all the best laid plans for the Tories. Nigel is a shit and will of course do so. All to play for.
It is impossible to get a grasp of how Boris is REALLY doing, because 95% of you are crazed by your hatred of him, and the other 5% therefore feel obliged to put up a desperate defence of him, whatever he does.
Shame. I shall have to rely on polls.
So if they really want Brexit, why don't they just refuse to request consent, and carry on regardless? Because they are desperate for a way out of the corner they've painted themselves into, and want to be relieved of the responsibility for a No Deal Brexit, either by an electoral mandate for it, or by defeat in an election?
I come here for an exchange of views. People posting their views is basically the point it seems to me. If nobody did this would be one very hollow site.
1) Brexit => The Brexit Party
2) Spending/end to austerity => Labour
It's going to be tough fighting these battles on their opponents' territory but that looks to be the aim.
Kinder gentler politics from McDonnell.
https://twitter.com/BarristerSecret/status/1169229053985005568
Till you look at the subsample of Scottish remain voters who voted Green at the last election where he is universally reviled.
I didn't see PMQs but from the tidbits I saw on the news Boris won't be unhappy with how his soundbites came out and nor' will Corbyn.
It used to be a refuge from the mindless echo chambers of social media but recently has become just another ranting site.
It isn't a problem, and I enjoy it just as much as I used to, but I use it now just for a good laugh and go elsewhere for serious political debate.
When people resigned from parties 30 years ago, if they photocopied their resignation letter and passed it around the pub, it would be a vanity act. I don’t see much difference with that and writing headers about it or reposting it online.