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  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,517
    kle4 said:

    Everyone should get creative in the Brexit debacle. Let Boris set an election date after 31 October, then remainers win and change us to the Julian calendar to declare we never left after all as it is not 31 October yet.


    We are due to leave in 3110.

    1,091 years from now.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    Boris is aiming for WA minus backstop first with No Deal only as a last resort to ensure Brexit

    I think you're the last person left who believes that to be true.
    That means if it turns out to be correct, then HYUFD is a true sage ...
    I think that Boris wants No Deal as part of a "failing and blaming" strategy to convert UK politics into a culture war and retain power by targeting whatever are the designated target group this week. I think Boris's actions to date bear that out and that @HYUFD 's belief that Boris wants a deal is a rare slip into sentimentality for him.

    We keep thinking that people like Farage and Boris are trying to be good people doing their best for the people of the UK, and that ultimately we only differ on means. What happens if they are actually bad people, or malevolent?
    That is not true, Boris voted for the Withdrawal Agreement at MV3 when Farage still opposed it, Boris also has offered the EU backing for the Withdrawal Agreement provided they remove the backstop, No Deal for him is a last resort to deliver Brexit.

    Farage refuses to back the Withdrawal Agreement even with the backstop removed but is a No Deal hardliner
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    RobD said:

    TGOHF said:

    Labour will vote against a GE - 2 MPs confirm on Newsnight.

    They simply don’t trust the public.

    But the public don’t want an election as we’ve established.
    Polling suggests otherwise.
    Then why did Boris say they didn’t? Surely he wouldn’t lie?
  • surbiton19surbiton19 Posts: 1,469
    TGOHF said:

    Now Creagh saying Labour will chicken out of an election.

    Sensational !

    I was saying this 5 hours back. Labour will agree to an election as long as it is guaranteed that there can be no crashing out on 31 October.
    We can certainly have an election after that.

    Who's clever now ?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    CatMan said:


    Labour will be left to campaign on "we agree with that, and let's spend lots more money on cancelling student loans, renationalising the railways and the water companies."

    I can see that working well for Johnson.

    But renationalisation is very popular. Plus expect lots of pictures of Trump and Johnson together. "Vote Boris, get Trump" sort of thing.
    Trump won
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    HYUFD said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    Boris is aiming for WA minus backstop first with No Deal only as a last resort to ensure Brexit

    I think you're the last person left who believes that to be true.
    That means if it turns out to be correct, then HYUFD is a true sage ...
    I think that Boris wants No Deal as part of a "failing and blaming" strategy to convert UK politics into a culture war and retain power by targeting whatever are the designated target group this week. I think Boris's actions to date bear that out and that @HYUFD 's belief that Boris wants a deal is a rare slip into sentimentality for him.

    We keep thinking that people like Farage and Boris are trying to be good people doing their best for the people of the UK, and that ultimately we only differ on means. What happens if they are actually bad people, or malevolent?
    That is not true, Boris voted for the Withdrawal Agreement at MV3 when Farage still opposed it, Boris also has offered the EU backing for the Withdrawal Agreement provided they remove the backstop, No Deal for him is a last resort to deliver Brexit.

    Farage refuses to back the Withdrawal Agreement even with the backstop removed but is a No Deal hardliner
    Hmm...

    https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1168641286292824064?s=21
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156

    The Tories should win the election given Corbyn’s toxicity, so if they don’t it will tell us a hell of a lot about the Tories!

    Labour should win the election after 3 terms of the Tories in power and the Tories polling only in the early 30s, if they don't that tells us a hell of a lot about Corbyn Labour!
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    TGOHF said:

    Now Creagh saying Labour will chicken out of an election.

    Sensational !

    I was saying this 5 hours back. Labour will agree to an election as long as it is guaranteed that there can be no crashing out on 31 October.
    We can certainly have an election after that.

    Who's clever now ?
    Not chicken Corbyn. He’s running scared.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    HYUFD said:

    CatMan said:


    Labour will be left to campaign on "we agree with that, and let's spend lots more money on cancelling student loans, renationalising the railways and the water companies."

    I can see that working well for Johnson.

    But renationalisation is very popular. Plus expect lots of pictures of Trump and Johnson together. "Vote Boris, get Trump" sort of thing.
    Trump won
    Trump is not popular in this country. The fact he won in America is irrelevant.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,131

    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    Boris is aiming for WA minus backstop first with No Deal only as a last resort to ensure Brexit

    I think you're the last person left who believes that to be true.

    Make that two. I think that's always been the plan. That said, a side benefit of preparing for No deal is that you're prepared for no deal.
    I think you're wrong: specifically, I think that Boris's intended outcome is No Deal and that the noises about a deal are simply FUD to cover for his real motive. However, we have 59 days to find out.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,517

    TGOHF said:

    TGOHF said:

    Batty Labour MP having a car wreck on Newsnight.

    Now saying Labour won’t support an election.

    Cluck cluck !
    Why would the public care if they don’t want an election anyway?
    That’s what I’m thinking. The public might reasonably assume the move is more crafty parliamentary games, just like everything else.

    Given than the current ‘government’ are too cowardly even to so much as put up a minister on the bloody TV news nowadays, the chicken thing kinda lost its feathers.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156

    HYUFD said:

    CatMan said:


    Labour will be left to campaign on "we agree with that, and let's spend lots more money on cancelling student loans, renationalising the railways and the water companies."

    I can see that working well for Johnson.

    But renationalisation is very popular. Plus expect lots of pictures of Trump and Johnson together. "Vote Boris, get Trump" sort of thing.
    Trump won
    Trump is not popular in this country. The fact he won in America is irrelevant.
    Boris leads comfortably as best PM, Trump is closer ideologically to Farage than Boris but Boris is as close to a Trump as can win a general election in the UK
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,060
    HYUFD said:

    CatMan said:


    Labour will be left to campaign on "we agree with that, and let's spend lots more money on cancelling student loans, renationalising the railways and the water companies."

    I can see that working well for Johnson.

    But renationalisation is very popular. Plus expect lots of pictures of Trump and Johnson together. "Vote Boris, get Trump" sort of thing.
    Trump won
    Um, yeah, but this is the UK, not the USA. Doesn't Trump have something around 10% support over here?
  • HYUFD said:


    It is astonishing, literally astonishing, the complacency of some anti Tory, anti Brexit posters on here.

    Did you vote against Brexit in 2016?
  • TGOHF said:

    TGOHF said:

    TGOHF said:

    Batty Labour MP having a car wreck on Newsnight.

    Now saying Labour won’t support an election.

    Cluck cluck !
    Why would the public care if they don’t want an election anyway?
    Labour are running scared !

    The first opposition to dodge an election 😂😂😂
    "Bring 'em on! I'd prefer a straight fight to all this sneaking around!"
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    CatMan said:


    Labour will be left to campaign on "we agree with that, and let's spend lots more money on cancelling student loans, renationalising the railways and the water companies."

    I can see that working well for Johnson.

    But renationalisation is very popular. Plus expect lots of pictures of Trump and Johnson together. "Vote Boris, get Trump" sort of thing.
    Trump won
    Trump is not popular in this country. The fact he won in America is irrelevant.
    Boris leads comfortably as best PM, Trump is closer ideologically to Farage than Boris but Boris is as close to a Trump as can win a general election in the UK
    You’re answering a different question.

    The point was that Boris being compared to Trump in a GE campaign won’t be a vote winner.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156

    @HYUFD this rather flies in the face of your nonsense doesn’t it?

    https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1168641286292824064?s=21

    So what, Boris is at least trying to deliver the ONLY Brexit Option a majority of MPs have voted for and which 52% of voters backed with Survation at the weekend.

    He will do No Deal if he has to as a last resort but he still wants a Deal
  • HYUFD said:

    The Tories should win the election given Corbyn’s toxicity, so if they don’t it will tell us a hell of a lot about the Tories!

    Labour should win the election after 3 terms of the Tories in power and the Tories polling only in the early 30s, if they don't that tells us a hell of a lot about Corbyn Labour!

    Yes, as I said, it will tell us what we all know: that Corbyn is utterly toxic. So, if the Tories cannot get a majority against him that will be quite a thing. I suspect they will, but can’t shake off the feeling it may not happen.

  • DanSmithDanSmith Posts: 1,215
    When did Creagh become a Labour spokesperson? Corbyn wants an election, Labour will back an election.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    RobD said:

    TGOHF said:

    Labour will vote against a GE - 2 MPs confirm on Newsnight.

    They simply don’t trust the public.

    But the public don’t want an election as we’ve established.
    Polling suggests otherwise.
    Then why did Boris say they didn’t? Surely he wouldn’t lie?
    He's also correct, since it was only a plurality and not a majority.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,060
    edited September 2019
    CatMan said:


    Um, yeah, but this is the UK, not the USA. Doesn't Trump have something around 10% support over here?

    https://www.newsweek.com/how-popular-donald-trump-uk-presidents-favorability-rating-far-lower-barack-obamas-1441803

    My mistake, it's a massive 21% (Compared to Obama, who has 72%!)
  • glwglw Posts: 9,912

    HYUFD said:

    CatMan said:


    Labour will be left to campaign on "we agree with that, and let's spend lots more money on cancelling student loans, renationalising the railways and the water companies."

    I can see that working well for Johnson.

    But renationalisation is very popular. Plus expect lots of pictures of Trump and Johnson together. "Vote Boris, get Trump" sort of thing.
    Trump won
    Trump is not popular in this country. The fact he won in America is irrelevant.
    He doesn't care whether Trump is competent, or good, or moral, or lawful, or smart, or kind, or wise, etc. He only cares that he won.

    Trump will be widely regarded as the worst President in living memory. Usually idiots at this point say "what about Bush and Iraq?", that's because they are idiots and ignore circumstance. God help us all if anything like 9/11 occurs on Trump's watch, I have no doubt that if given the chance Trump would cause absolute catastrophe.
  • HYUFD said:

    CatMan said:


    Labour will be left to campaign on "we agree with that, and let's spend lots more money on cancelling student loans, renationalising the railways and the water companies."

    I can see that working well for Johnson.

    But renationalisation is very popular. Plus expect lots of pictures of Trump and Johnson together. "Vote Boris, get Trump" sort of thing.
    Trump won
    Hillary won the popular vote!
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    HYUFD said:

    @HYUFD this rather flies in the face of your nonsense doesn’t it?

    https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1168641286292824064?s=21

    So what, Boris is at least trying to deliver the ONLY Brexit Option a majority of MPs have voted for and which 52% of voters backed with Survation at the weekend.

    He will do No Deal if he has to as a last resort but he still wants a Deal
    So what that the negotiation is a complete sham?

    52% of voters backing something that is not available is an irrelevance.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,131
    HYUFD said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    Boris is aiming for WA minus backstop first with No Deal only as a last resort to ensure Brexit

    I think you're the last person left who believes that to be true.
    That means if it turns out to be correct, then HYUFD is a true sage ...
    I think that Boris wants No Deal as part of a "failing and blaming" strategy to convert UK politics into a culture war and retain power by targeting whatever are the designated target group this week. I think Boris's actions to date bear that out and that @HYUFD 's belief that Boris wants a deal is a rare slip into sentimentality for him.

    We keep thinking that people like Farage and Boris are trying to be good people doing their best for the people of the UK, and that ultimately we only differ on means. What happens if they are actually bad people, or malevolent?
    That is not true, Boris voted for the Withdrawal Agreement at MV3 when Farage still opposed it, Boris also has offered the EU backing for the Withdrawal Agreement provided they remove the backstop, No Deal for him is a last resort to deliver Brexit.

    Farage refuses to back the Withdrawal Agreement even with the backstop removed but is a No Deal hardliner
    If I am right, then whatever the EU offer will be rejected and will be excused via "failing and blaming", leading to a No Deal on Oct 31. If you are right then Boris will accept an offer from the EU and we leave with a Deal on Oct 31. So we have 59 days to see which of us is correct.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    DanSmith said:

    When did Creagh become a Labour spokesperson? Corbyn wants an election, Labour will back an election.

    Labour split down the middle.
  • DruttDrutt Posts: 1,124

    TGOHF said:

    Now Creagh saying Labour will chicken out of an election.

    Sensational !

    I was saying this 5 hours back. Labour will agree to an election as long as it is guaranteed that there can be no crashing out on 31 October.
    We can certainly have an election after that.

    Who's clever now ?
    How can the pre-election government bind the post-election government to avoiding no deal?
  • surbiton19surbiton19 Posts: 1,469
    If Parliament extends Art 50 and Parliament turns down an election for now, what do the smart alec's do ?
  • tpfkartpfkar Posts: 1,565
    DanSmith said:

    When did Creagh become a Labour spokesperson? Corbyn wants an election, Labour will back an election.

    I'm sure a Corbyn will; I think there would be a massive rebellion of moderates (and, bluntly, smarter than him) who agree with Blair's commments this morning.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468

    If Parliament extends Art 50 and Parliament turns down an election for now, what do the smart alec's do ?

    Throw a tantrum probably.
  • surbiton19surbiton19 Posts: 1,469
    Drutt said:

    TGOHF said:

    Now Creagh saying Labour will chicken out of an election.

    Sensational !

    I was saying this 5 hours back. Labour will agree to an election as long as it is guaranteed that there can be no crashing out on 31 October.
    We can certainly have an election after that.

    Who's clever now ?
    How can the pre-election government bind the post-election government to avoiding no deal?
    How is the FTPA 2011 binding us today ?
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,751
    Drutt said:

    TGOHF said:

    Now Creagh saying Labour will chicken out of an election.

    Sensational !

    I was saying this 5 hours back. Labour will agree to an election as long as it is guaranteed that there can be no crashing out on 31 October.
    We can certainly have an election after that.

    Who's clever now ?
    How can the pre-election government bind the post-election government to avoiding no deal?
    By asking for an extension now.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    edited September 2019

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    CatMan said:


    Labour will be left to campaign on "we agree with that, and let's spend lots more money on cancelling student loans, renationalising the railways and the water companies."

    I can see that working well for Johnson.

    But renationalisation is very popular. Plus expect lots of pictures of Trump and Johnson together. "Vote Boris, get Trump" sort of thing.
    Trump won
    Trump is not popular in this country. The fact he won in America is irrelevant.
    Boris leads comfortably as best PM, Trump is closer ideologically to Farage than Boris but Boris is as close to a Trump as can win a general election in the UK
    You’re answering a different question.

    The point was that Boris being compared to Trump in a GE campaign won’t be a vote winner.
    Boris won the referendum in 2016 and will use the same coalition of mainly working class and lower middle class white voters, older voters and non big city voters as Trump did to win, much as Trump followed the Brexit example to win
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380

    If Parliament extends Art 50 and Parliament turns down an election for now, what do the smart alec's do ?

    Throw a tantrum probably.
    There are plenty of those already happening
  • surbiton19surbiton19 Posts: 1,469
    TGOHF said:

    DanSmith said:

    When did Creagh become a Labour spokesperson? Corbyn wants an election, Labour will back an election.

    Labour split down the middle.
    Labour split 200:50 , if at all. The Shadow NI Secretary was saying the same thing.
    If I were you I'd read Corbyn's exact words tonight - not looking at lazy Jounalist's headlines.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    CatMan said:


    Labour will be left to campaign on "we agree with that, and let's spend lots more money on cancelling student loans, renationalising the railways and the water companies."

    I can see that working well for Johnson.

    But renationalisation is very popular. Plus expect lots of pictures of Trump and Johnson together. "Vote Boris, get Trump" sort of thing.
    Trump won
    Trump is not popular in this country. The fact he won in America is irrelevant.
    Boris leads comfortably as best PM, Trump is closer ideologically to Farage than Boris but Boris is as close to a Trump as can win a general election in the UK
    You’re answering a different question.

    The point was that Boris being compared to Trump in a GE campaign won’t be a vote winner.
    Boris won the referendum in 2016 and will use the same coalition of mainly working class and lower middle class white voters, older voters and non big city voters as Trump did to win, much as Trump followed the Brexit example to win
    We will see won’t we!
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    People were frothing over the possibility of deaths allegedly due to Brexit earlier

    Strangely those same people seem little bothered by this case amongst others

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7420275/Girl-five-died-sepsis-hours-E-medics-blamed-rash-virus.htmlr
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    HYUFD said:

    The Tories should win the election given Corbyn’s toxicity, so if they don’t it will tell us a hell of a lot about the Tories!

    Labour should win the election after 3 terms of the Tories in power and the Tories polling only in the early 30s, if they don't that tells us a hell of a lot about Corbyn Labour!

    Yes, as I said, it will tell us what we all know: that Corbyn is utterly toxic. So, if the Tories cannot get a majority against him that will be quite a thing. I suspect they will, but can’t shake off the feeling it may not happen.

    Hardly that much of a shock, it’s the status quo
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    tpfkar said:

    DanSmith said:

    When did Creagh become a Labour spokesperson? Corbyn wants an election, Labour will back an election.

    I'm sure a Corbyn will; I think there would be a massive rebellion of moderates (and, bluntly, smarter than him) who agree with Blair's commments this morning.
    And the public will look at those mp's and think what the actual fuck.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    TGOHF said:

    DanSmith said:

    When did Creagh become a Labour spokesperson? Corbyn wants an election, Labour will back an election.

    Labour split down the middle.
    You say it like its a new thing.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    Floater said:

    tpfkar said:

    DanSmith said:

    When did Creagh become a Labour spokesperson? Corbyn wants an election, Labour will back an election.

    I'm sure a Corbyn will; I think there would be a massive rebellion of moderates (and, bluntly, smarter than him) who agree with Blair's commments this morning.
    And the public will look at those mp's and think what the actual fuck.
    The public doesn’t want an election. Boris told us that today.

    So they would be following the will of the people..?
  • Drutt said:

    TGOHF said:

    Now Creagh saying Labour will chicken out of an election.

    Sensational !

    I was saying this 5 hours back. Labour will agree to an election as long as it is guaranteed that there can be no crashing out on 31 October.
    We can certainly have an election after that.

    Who's clever now ?
    How can the pre-election government bind the post-election government to avoiding no deal?

    I suspect this is more about not giving Johnson the ability to pick the election date.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    edited September 2019

    HYUFD said:

    @HYUFD this rather flies in the face of your nonsense doesn’t it?

    https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1168641286292824064?s=21

    So what, Boris is at least trying to deliver the ONLY Brexit Option a majority of MPs have voted for and which 52% of voters backed with Survation at the weekend.

    He will do No Deal if he has to as a last resort but he still wants a Deal
    So what that the negotiation is a complete sham?

    52% of voters backing something that is not available is an irrelevance.
    You insist it is a sham as you want a Revoke v No Deal civil war, well on our side we are preparing for a civil war if needed yes, the troops are getting ready, the gunpowder being loaded, the cavalry readied to take on diehard Remainers and Corbyn and deliver Brexit.

    However that does not mean we do not still want to achieve a compromise Brexit first by passing the Withdrawal Agreement if a technical alternative can be found to the backstop
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    PMQs on Wed should be fun - Boris laughing in chicken Jezza’s face.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,751
    edited September 2019
    Floater said:

    People were frothing over the possibility of deaths allegedly due to Brexit earlier

    Strangely those same people seem little bothered by this case amongst others

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7420275/Girl-five-died-sepsis-hours-E-medics-blamed-rash-virus.htmlr

    What's your point? That because deaths happen for reasons other than Brexit, it doesn't matter if Brexit causes deaths?
  • If Parliament extends Art 50 and Parliament turns down an election for now, what do the smart alec's do ?

    Johnson would either have to resign or break the law.

  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    @HYUFD this rather flies in the face of your nonsense doesn’t it?

    https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1168641286292824064?s=21

    So what, Boris is at least trying to deliver the ONLY Brexit Option a majority of MPs have voted for and which 52% of voters backed with Survation at the weekend.

    He will do No Deal if he has to as a last resort but he still wants a Deal
    So what that the negotiation is a complete sham?

    52% of voters backing something that is not available is an irrelevance.
    You insist it is a sham as you want a Revoke v No Deal civil war, well on our side we are preparing for a civil war if needed yes, the troops are getting ready, the gunpowder being loaded, the cavalry readied to take on diehard Remainers and Corbyn and deliver Brexit.

    However that does not mean we do not still want to achieve a compromise Brexit first by passing the Withdrawal Agreement if a technical alternative can be found to the backstop
    It’s Cummings who says its a sham mate, not me.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    CatMan said:


    Labour will be left to campaign on "we agree with that, and let's spend lots more money on cancelling student loans, renationalising the railways and the water companies."

    I can see that working well for Johnson.

    But renationalisation is very popular. Plus expect lots of pictures of Trump and Johnson together. "Vote Boris, get Trump" sort of thing.
    Trump won
    Trump is not popular in this country. The fact he won in America is irrelevant.
    Boris leads comfortably as best PM, Trump is closer ideologically to Farage than Boris but Boris is as close to a Trump as can win a general election in the UK
    I'm sure you think being like Trump is a good thing, but that isn't a majority view in this country
  • eggegg Posts: 1,749
    HYUFD said:

    TGOHF said:

    Labour will vote against a GE - 2 MPs confirm on Newsnight.

    They simply don’t trust the public.

    Corbyn thinks different and as long as he and his camp does Boris gets his election
    I see it as self interest.

    For snap poll

    SNP
    LIB DEMS
    greens got little to lose, as well as welsh nats.
    Vast majority of labour moderates sitting behind Corbyn sat on nice majorities.
    Conservative moderates confident of avoiding deselection and returning

    With most to lose

    Labour front bench.
    Tory front bench
    DUP
    Tiggers.
    Various of all party no party standing down
    And also ERG simply because the polls are tight and Boris going into opposition could cancel brexit for ever

  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    CatMan said:


    Labour will be left to campaign on "we agree with that, and let's spend lots more money on cancelling student loans, renationalising the railways and the water companies."

    I can see that working well for Johnson.

    But renationalisation is very popular. Plus expect lots of pictures of Trump and Johnson together. "Vote Boris, get Trump" sort of thing.
    Trump won
    Trump is not popular in this country. The fact he won in America is irrelevant.
    Boris leads comfortably as best PM, Trump is closer ideologically to Farage than Boris but Boris is as close to a Trump as can win a general election in the UK
    You’re answering a different question.

    The point was that Boris being compared to Trump in a GE campaign won’t be a vote winner.
    Boris won the referendum in 2016 and will use the same coalition of mainly working class and lower middle class white voters, older voters and non big city voters as Trump did to win, much as Trump followed the Brexit example to win
    Both Brexit and Trump were the product of microtargeting media strategies, driven in part by hostile foreign actors. I also think the remarkable Corbyn resurgence in 2017 is partially attributable to the same cause, although for that last one I haven't seen any evidence yet.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156

    HYUFD said:

    The Tories should win the election given Corbyn’s toxicity, so if they don’t it will tell us a hell of a lot about the Tories!

    Labour should win the election after 3 terms of the Tories in power and the Tories polling only in the early 30s, if they don't that tells us a hell of a lot about Corbyn Labour!

    Yes, as I said, it will tell us what we all know: that Corbyn is utterly toxic. So, if the Tories cannot get a majority against him that will be quite a thing. I suspect they will, but can’t shake off the feeling it may not happen.

    If the Tories get a historic 4th term for only the 2nd time in the last 100 years that will be even more a thing!
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Shouting at people is to be banned now?

    Not sure the left got that particular memo....

    Oh wait - yet again Jones is a bloody hypocrite.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,517

    TGOHF said:

    DanSmith said:

    When did Creagh become a Labour spokesperson? Corbyn wants an election, Labour will back an election.

    Labour split down the middle.
    Labour split 200:50 , if at all. The Shadow NI Secretary was saying the same thing.
    If I were you I'd read Corbyn's exact words tonight - not looking at lazy Jounalist's headlines.
    You are making the same unreasonable demand as @Benpointer

    You are asking them to read.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    edited September 2019
    Floater said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    CatMan said:


    Labour will be left to campaign on "we agree with that, and let's spend lots more money on cancelling student loans, renationalising the railways and the water companies."

    I can see that working well for Johnson.

    But renationalisation is very popular. Plus expect lots of pictures of Trump and Johnson together. "Vote Boris, get Trump" sort of thing.
    Trump won
    Trump is not popular in this country. The fact he won in America is irrelevant.
    Boris leads comfortably as best PM, Trump is closer ideologically to Farage than Boris but Boris is as close to a Trump as can win a general election in the UK
    I'm sure you think being like Trump is a good thing, but that isn't a majority view in this country
    Where did I say that? I said Farage is closer to Trump than Boris.

    However Boris if he wins will win with largely the same coalition as Trump did, ie mainly males, the over 40s, the white working and lower middle classes and rural, ex industrial and suburban areas
  • If Parliament extends Art 50 and Parliament turns down an election for now, what do the smart alec's do ?

    Johnson would either have to resign or break the law.

    What happens if Boris then resigns on behalf of his government. i.e he tells Queen the government is resigning. Corbyn can't form a confidence motion - so it has to be an election anyway?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    The Tories should win the election given Corbyn’s toxicity, so if they don’t it will tell us a hell of a lot about the Tories!

    Labour should win the election after 3 terms of the Tories in power and the Tories polling only in the early 30s, if they don't that tells us a hell of a lot about Corbyn Labour!

    Yes, as I said, it will tell us what we all know: that Corbyn is utterly toxic. So, if the Tories cannot get a majority against him that will be quite a thing. I suspect they will, but can’t shake off the feeling it may not happen.

    If the Tories get a historic 4th term for only the 2nd time in the last 100 years that will be even more a thing!
    Do they get a trophy for that or what?
  • eggegg Posts: 1,749
    TGOHF said:

    PMQs on Wed should be fun - Boris laughing in chicken Jezza’s face.

    They’ve already hired the daily mirror chicken, in something of a coup
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,856

    If Parliament extends Art 50 and Parliament turns down an election for now, what do the smart alec's do ?

    Johnson would either have to resign or break the law.

    Why would he have to resign? The trouble is that parliament keeps giving the impression it just wants to tie the government's hands together but nothing else.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,534
    RobD said:

    AndyJS said:

    Why has Boris chosen 14th October over the 10th?

    Someone misread a calendar?
    Something to do with having the new government in place before the EU summit the following weekend, apparently. It's nice of them to give Corbyn more time to negotiate the new majority.
  • Floater said:

    Shouting at people is to be banned now?

    Not sure the left got that particular memo....

    Oh wait - yet again Jones is a bloody hypocrite.
    Goddard already has several restraining orders against him, so him getting nicked for behaving like a moron is an easy collar for GMP.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Chris said:

    Floater said:

    People were frothing over the possibility of deaths allegedly due to Brexit earlier

    Strangely those same people seem little bothered by this case amongst others

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7420275/Girl-five-died-sepsis-hours-E-medics-blamed-rash-virus.htmlr

    What's your point? That because deaths happen for reasons other than Brexit, it doesn't matter if Brexit causes deaths?
    No, it means people like you are politicising the possibility of deaths whilst ignoring actual cases.

    In other words only some deaths seem to be important to some people.

  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380
    HYUFD said:

    we are preparing for a civil war if needed yes, the troops are getting ready, the gunpowder being loaded, the cavalry readied to take on diehard Remainers and Corbyn and deliver Brexit.

    Stop being so silly
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    @HYUFD are you going to shoot me for being an EU collaborator?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    The Tories should win the election given Corbyn’s toxicity, so if they don’t it will tell us a hell of a lot about the Tories!

    Labour should win the election after 3 terms of the Tories in power and the Tories polling only in the early 30s, if they don't that tells us a hell of a lot about Corbyn Labour!

    Yes, as I said, it will tell us what we all know: that Corbyn is utterly toxic. So, if the Tories cannot get a majority against him that will be quite a thing. I suspect they will, but can’t shake off the feeling it may not happen.

    If the Tories get a historic 4th term for only the 2nd time in the last 100 years that will be even more a thing!
    The Tories failed to get a majority against Corbyn in the last election, two years ago, and NOM is odds on! Can’t shake off the feeling an 8/11 shot might cop though...
  • ab195ab195 Posts: 477
    Does having an election gets Corbyn off the referendum hook (e.g. He can say he will extend and negotiate his Brexit) or is Labour well past that now? I guess it might be one for the NEC and the manifesto?
  • stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,861
    Isn’t the issue that if the No Deal legislation goes through and the Labour Party refuse to play ball over agreeing a General Election, then Boris is forced to resign?
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    stjohn said:

    Isn’t the issue that if the No Deal legislation goes through and the Labour Party refuse to play ball over agreeing a General Election, then Boris is forced to resign?

    You think there are no more cards to play ?

  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    TGOHF said:

    stjohn said:

    Isn’t the issue that if the No Deal legislation goes through and the Labour Party refuse to play ball over agreeing a General Election, then Boris is forced to resign?

    You think there are no more cards to play ?

    Well you’ve resorted to cluck cluck noises so I would suggest yes.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,856
    Blair's speech was pretty good but he made one enormous howler. He stated it was now quicker to get to Paris by train than Newcastle.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    edited September 2019
    The greatest thing that could happen now is that a Parliament is elected with a pro revoke majority but then Brexits anyway to EEA/EFTA as a mark of respect for the referendum. That is the only route to healing.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    The Tories should win the election given Corbyn’s toxicity, so if they don’t it will tell us a hell of a lot about the Tories!

    Labour should win the election after 3 terms of the Tories in power and the Tories polling only in the early 30s, if they don't that tells us a hell of a lot about Corbyn Labour!

    Yes, as I said, it will tell us what we all know: that Corbyn is utterly toxic. So, if the Tories cannot get a majority against him that will be quite a thing. I suspect they will, but can’t shake off the feeling it may not happen.

    If the Tories get a historic 4th term for only the 2nd time in the last 100 years that will be even more a thing!
    If their 4th term is as "glorious" as their third..... :D:D:D

    Some victories are not worth the cost
  • ab195ab195 Posts: 477

    Blair's speech was pretty good but he made one enormous howler. He stated it was now quicker to get to Paris by train than Newcastle.

    It does rather depend on where you’re starting from.....
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675
    It is going to be brutal. Someone is going to lose and lose badly. Brinkmanship has its limits and politicians overestimate their ability to control events. Nightie night.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    @HYUFD this rather flies in the face of your nonsense doesn’t it?

    https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1168641286292824064?s=21

    So what, Boris is at least trying to deliver the ONLY Brexit Option a majority of MPs have voted for and which 52% of voters backed with Survation at the weekend.

    He will do No Deal if he has to as a last resort but he still wants a Deal
    So what that the negotiation is a complete sham?

    52% of voters backing something that is not available is an irrelevance.
    You insist it is a sham as you want a Revoke v No Deal civil war, well on our side we are preparing for a civil war if needed yes, the troops are getting ready, the gunpowder being loaded, the cavalry readied to take on diehard Remainers and Corbyn and deliver Brexit.

    However that does not mean we do not still want to achieve a compromise Brexit first by passing the Withdrawal Agreement if a technical alternative can be found to the backstop
    You appear to have JRM appointed to care for your sick and wounded.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,751
    Floater said:

    Chris said:

    Floater said:

    People were frothing over the possibility of deaths allegedly due to Brexit earlier

    Strangely those same people seem little bothered by this case amongst others

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7420275/Girl-five-died-sepsis-hours-E-medics-blamed-rash-virus.htmlr

    What's your point? That because deaths happen for reasons other than Brexit, it doesn't matter if Brexit causes deaths?
    No, it means people like you are politicising the possibility of deaths whilst ignoring actual cases.

    In other words only some deaths seem to be important to some people.
    Because we're discussing politics here, and Brexit in particular, and if Brexit causes a large number of deaths that's relevant to the discussion?

    How does the story you posted make it less relevant? Aren't you concerned at all that people may die because of this lunatic political project?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156

    The greatest thing that could happen now is that a Parliament is elected with a pro revoke majority but then Brexits anyway to EEA/EFTA as a mark of respect for the referendum. That is the only route to healing.

    Won't happen, still needs the Withdrawal Agreement to pass I think.

  • surbiton19surbiton19 Posts: 1,469

    The greatest thing that could happen now is that a Parliament is elected with a pro revoke majority but then Brexits anyway to EEA/EFTA as a mark of respect for the referendum. That is the only route to healing.

    No way. Brexit is like cancer. It has to be purged from body politic. Just Revoke.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    isam said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    The Tories should win the election given Corbyn’s toxicity, so if they don’t it will tell us a hell of a lot about the Tories!

    Labour should win the election after 3 terms of the Tories in power and the Tories polling only in the early 30s, if they don't that tells us a hell of a lot about Corbyn Labour!

    Yes, as I said, it will tell us what we all know: that Corbyn is utterly toxic. So, if the Tories cannot get a majority against him that will be quite a thing. I suspect they will, but can’t shake off the feeling it may not happen.

    If the Tories get a historic 4th term for only the 2nd time in the last 100 years that will be even more a thing!
    The Tories failed to get a majority against Corbyn in the last election, two years ago, and NOM is odds on! Can’t shake off the feeling an 8/11 shot might cop though...
    That was against May, a C- campaigner, not Boris, an A+ campaigner
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,856

    The greatest thing that could happen now is that a Parliament is elected with a pro revoke majority but then Brexits anyway to EEA/EFTA as a mark of respect for the referendum. That is the only route to healing.

    No way. Brexit is like cancer. It has to be purged from body politic. Just Revoke.
    You think that will purge it from the body politic?

    And it's not simply about Brexit anyway. Look at the debates happening all over the western world.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    The Tories should win the election given Corbyn’s toxicity, so if they don’t it will tell us a hell of a lot about the Tories!

    Labour should win the election after 3 terms of the Tories in power and the Tories polling only in the early 30s, if they don't that tells us a hell of a lot about Corbyn Labour!

    Yes, as I said, it will tell us what we all know: that Corbyn is utterly toxic. So, if the Tories cannot get a majority against him that will be quite a thing. I suspect they will, but can’t shake off the feeling it may not happen.

    If the Tories get a historic 4th term for only the 2nd time in the last 100 years that will be even more a thing!
    Do they get a trophy for that or what?
    T shirts are being prepared
  • Does she only have one setting? Hyperbole or nothing.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156

    @HYUFD are you going to shoot me for being an EU collaborator?

    I was talking metaphorically
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,751
    TGOHF said:
    Or else Johnson has over-reached himself again and been outwitted again? So his supporters start yelping loudly, as always?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,733
    TGOHF said:

    PMQs on Wed should be fun - Boris laughing in chicken Jezza’s face.

    I don't think that is how it will be. Bozo will get difficult questions about prorogation. He is also generally frit. Indeed one reason he wants propagation is to avoid the scrutiny of PM questions.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,217

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    CatMan said:


    Labour will be left to campaign on "we agree with that, and let's spend lots more money on cancelling student loans, renationalising the railways and the water companies."

    I can see that working well for Johnson.

    But renationalisation is very popular. Plus expect lots of pictures of Trump and Johnson together. "Vote Boris, get Trump" sort of thing.
    Trump won
    Trump is not popular in this country. The fact he won in America is irrelevant.
    Boris leads comfortably as best PM, Trump is closer ideologically to Farage than Boris but Boris is as close to a Trump as can win a general election in the UK
    You’re answering a different question.

    The point was that Boris being compared to Trump in a GE campaign won’t be a vote winner.
    Boris won the referendum in 2016 and will use the same coalition of mainly working class and lower middle class white voters, older voters and non big city voters as Trump did to win, much as Trump followed the Brexit example to win
    We will see won’t we!
    We certainly will.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468

    Does she only have one setting? Hyperbole or nothing.
    Well it literally already happened.
  • surbiton19surbiton19 Posts: 1,469
    stjohn said:

    Isn’t the issue that if the No Deal legislation goes through and the Labour Party refuse to play ball over agreeing a General Election, then Boris is forced to resign?

    Well, he would cry "Chicken" but cry is the operative word. I really think Labour has zero option. Johnson could get the election and then decide the election will be on 1st, 8th, 15th November or whenever. We cannot trust him ! He is a Liar of Trumpian proportions.
  • stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,861
    Well I’ve laid an October election at average odds 1.4. Looks evens or bigger to me as things stand.
  • eggegg Posts: 1,749

    AndyJS said:

    The relationship between vote share and seats won will probably be smaller at this election than at any previous one. 33% might win the Tories a majority, 40% might not. The swing calculators won't be much use.

    Sage words, although it has often been thus in the past. IIRC, Blair won a majority of 60-odd in 2005 with 35% of the vote, whereas May won the opportunity to negotiate a confidence-and-supply arrangement with Arlene Foster in 2017 with 42% of the vote.

    You just don't know with our system. It's basically a lottery.
    That’s why I say ignore everything except the HY index.

    HY will publish his Tory gains list, as polls of the seats come in we will have a clear view exactly how the election is going. PB will be ahead of the game, the whole world will have to tune in to updates on HY index.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,712
    Betfair Date of GE:

    Oct 1.51
    Nov 6.4
    Dec 16
    2020 or later 5.3

    So Oct still very strong favourite.

    And Nov less likely than 2020 or later.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414
    Been on retreat since 3 o'clock. Missed the fun. How was Boris' statement?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    Future Labour leader Jess Phillips retweeted this.

    https://twitter.com/mpphilwilson/status/1168652372295540737?s=21

    Squeaky bum on that election.
  • surbiton19surbiton19 Posts: 1,469
    HYUFD said:

    The greatest thing that could happen now is that a Parliament is elected with a pro revoke majority but then Brexits anyway to EEA/EFTA as a mark of respect for the referendum. That is the only route to healing.

    Won't happen, still needs the Withdrawal Agreement to pass I think.

    Nothing will be necessary. A letter saying REVOKE will be enough.
  • DruttDrutt Posts: 1,124
    egg said:

    TGOHF said:

    PMQs on Wed should be fun - Boris laughing in chicken Jezza’s face.

    They’ve already hired the daily mirror chicken, in something of a coup
    How does an Egg miss the 'coup / coop' pun here?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    HYUFD said:

    isam said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    The Tories should win the election given Corbyn’s toxicity, so if they don’t it will tell us a hell of a lot about the Tories!

    Labour should win the election after 3 terms of the Tories in power and the Tories polling only in the early 30s, if they don't that tells us a hell of a lot about Corbyn Labour!

    Yes, as I said, it will tell us what we all know: that Corbyn is utterly toxic. So, if the Tories cannot get a majority against him that will be quite a thing. I suspect they will, but can’t shake off the feeling it may not happen.

    If the Tories get a historic 4th term for only the 2nd time in the last 100 years that will be even more a thing!
    The Tories failed to get a majority against Corbyn in the last election, two years ago, and NOM is odds on! Can’t shake off the feeling an 8/11 shot might cop though...
    That was against May, a C- campaigner, not Boris, an A+ campaigner
    I know, I was just bemused by the Joffer revelation
This discussion has been closed.