I disagree with Twitter (what a surprise). He was saying something. The subtext was clearly back me or we go into a GE.
They won’t back him, so a GE is imminent. What he wants to do is make sure it doesn’t look like HE chose it after what happened to TMay. He wants it to look like he was forced into it.
We'll be in a general election campaign by the end of the week.
Parliament should deny him the election and also not pass the legislation to force an extension. The prorogation period would become a death march for his government, with Johnson facing inevitable humiliation at the European Council summit.
Sure, if that is its meaning that is contentious, but if someone is saying no deal is totally unacceptable what difference does it make to them? Either they kid themselves we might agree a different deal in whatever time the EU give, or they get the referendum or GE to reverse Brexit that they want anyway.
Yes. Shouting 'Stop the coup' as a freely elected parliament is about to resume around the corner while the oppositions try to decide whether to mandate another free election seems odd. Hardly North Korea or even Hong Kong is it?
I disagree with Twitter (what a surprise). He was saying something. The subtext was clearly back me or we go into a GE.
They won’t back him, so a GE is imminent. What he wants to do is make sure it doesn’t look like HE chose it after what happened to TMay. He wants it to look like he was forced into it.
Which is what people have been speculating about for a week, hence no change.
I disagree with Twitter (what a surprise). He was saying something. The subtext was clearly back me or we go into a GE.
They won’t back him, so a GE is imminent. What he wants to do is make sure it doesn’t look like HE chose it after what happened to TMay. He wants it to look like he was forced into it.
Exactly.
Not like Brown or May at all. For goodness sake, political junkies cant wait even one day.
Yes. Shouting 'Stop the coup' as a freely elected parliament is about to resume around the corner while the oppositions try to decide whether to mandate another free election seems odd. Hardly North Korea or even Hong Kong is it?
You have to admit, it's easier than chanting "stop doing what I don't want you to do".
Quite obviously the point of that is to prevent the thing falling through if Brussels offers a different date from the one the PM is mandated to request.
It hands the keys to the Commons, not to Brussels.
Yes. Shouting 'Stop the coup' as a freely elected parliament is about to resume around the corner while the oppositions try to decide whether to mandate another free election seems odd. Hardly North Korea or even Hong Kong is it?
By the same logic, you should have no problem with being in the EU because at least it isn’t the USSR.
Sure, if that is its meaning that is contentious, but if someone is saying no deal is totally unacceptable what difference does it make to them? Either they kid themselves we might agree a different deal in whatever time the EU give, or they get the referendum or GE to reverse Brexit that they want anyway.
The following paragraph says the govt can ask parliament to vote on an extension. If parliament rejects it we dont sign up. But leavers have never been interested in the details, just about getting very angry and randomly calling people traitors.
Laura Kuenssberg says Boris will call a general election for October 14th if the Commons votes for another extension this week
I half expect him to call a general election on 31st October.
He may try and delay whatever election date is set. Perhaps we shall find some more foot and mouth disease somewhere. I would put nothing past this shameful PM.
If MPs back the extension and refuse to give Johnson an election before 31st October, then from what he said just now he either has to resign or break the law.
If MPs back the extension and refuse to give Johnson an election before 31st October, then from what he said just now he either has to resign or break the law.
In fairness to Preston, other than Boris not saying it on the steps of Downing Street just now, all of that is probably No.10's strategy.
He'll be back on the steps later in the week. Maybe for a 10pm news, when there's fewer howling middle class white people beyond the gates to Downing Street...They'll all be safely tucked up back in Islington by then.
If MPs back the extension and refuse to give Johnson an election before 31st October, then from what he said just now he either has to resign or break the law.
That's my reading of it, provided it can become law automatically if it passes the Commons and the Lords.
If MPs back the extension and refuse to give Johnson an election before 31st October, then from what he said just now he either has to resign or break the law.
That's my reading of it, provided it can become law automatically if it passes the Commons and the Lords.
In the GE, the remain parties should make up a big thing of killing 10 million lambs in order to no deal. It shows how absurd this has become.
You can’t run that line and the line that there’ll be food shortages. In the complex, real world both things can be true but if you try and say so in a debate you’ll be destroyed.
Meanwhile Hammond is focusing on how is Boris negotiation coming along.
Boris and his supporters repeatedly talk up the progress he’s making in his recent visits to Berlin and to Paris, and at the G7 summit in Biarritz. Can someone who believes this is true and isn’t bullshit explain what this progress is?
The only sense Boris has made so far was in his Merkel press conference, accepting there can only be change if UK puts some credible proposals on the table. But we only negotiate something better by actually negotiating, true to say isn’t it? And there can only be some merit Keeping no deal on table and supposedly coerce EU to back down, so we achieve a better deal, if the no deal threat will hurt them as much as it hurts us? Does anyone really believe No deal impacts EU as much as it will impact the UK? If so explain your reasoning to a sceptical audience all ears to learn the truth.
Because ultimately what hurts UK from No Deal is not just the indelible impact on our farming and other industry and business in such a fast forward to global Britain , but the political crisis in Britain extending into the longer term, because we wouldn’t be able to get EU to table and compromise without ourselves climbing down and sucking up exactly what they are currently asking from us. In other words, just as May and the Conservative moderates explained, we can only achieve leave deal with EU by making a compromise, and its damn harder for us to make that compromise after a no deal Brexit. We will become even more firmly stuck in a political crisis that impacts EU to far lesser degree than ourselves.
This is not a remainer argument, this is an argument any staunch leaver with more than three active brain cells can make. No deal is certainly not the end of it. It is not closure and move on. No deal isn’t actually an answer to anything, it’s a billboard to the world of our failure to achieve that answer. A symbol of failure etched forever into British history.
If MPs back the extension and refuse to give Johnson an election before 31st October, then from what he said just now he either has to resign or break the law.
Boris will of course refuse to implement an extension using the royal prerogative and would not be breaking the law as Bills need royal signature to become law.
Though Corbyn said today he would back an election regardless despite Blair warning Corbyn Boris had set an 'elephant trap' for him
Laura Kuenssberg says Boris will call a general election for October 14th if the Commons votes for another extension this week
A Monday election?
Otherwise it would coincide with the European Council meeting, I suppose.
Why that should make a difference if Johnson is planning to No Deal, I'm not sure.
His campaign speech:
"In a few days time there will be a European summit that will determine our fate. Only one of two people can go to that summit: me or Jeremy Corbyn. I will be resolute that if we do not get a good deal for Britain, we will come out regardless. Jeremy Corbyn will fold like a wet lettuce. Every vote for me will strengthen my hand in the negotiations."
If MPs back the extension and refuse to give Johnson an election before 31st October, then from what he said just now he either has to resign or break the law.
Boris will of course refuse to implement an extension using the royal prerogative and would not be breaking the law as Bills need royal signature to become law.
Though Corbyn said today he would back an election regardless despite Blair warning Corbyn Boris had set an 'elephant trap' for him
If MPs back the extension and refuse to give Johnson an election before 31st October, then from what he said just now he either has to resign or break the law.
Boris will of course refuse to implement an extension using the royal prerogative ...
In the GE, the remain parties should make up a big thing of killing 10 million lambs in order to no deal. It shows how absurd this has become.
You can’t run that line and the line that there’ll be food shortages. In the complex, real world both things can be true but if you try and say so in a debate you’ll be destroyed.
The food shortages are (very probably) not a shortage of overall food but a shortage of some particular foods. Lamb will not be one of them.
If MPs back the extension and refuse to give Johnson an election before 31st October, then from what he said just now he either has to resign or break the law.
Boris will of course refuse to implement an extension using the royal prerogative ...
Not being king, that might be difficult for him.
As the Queen showed last week she will follow the PM's direction unless he loses a VONC
If MPs back the extension and refuse to give Johnson an election before 31st October, then from what he said just now he either has to resign or break the law.
Boris will of course refuse to implement an extension using the royal prerogative and would not be breaking the law as Bills need royal signature to become law.
Though Corbyn said today he would back an election regardless despite Blair warning Corbyn Boris had set an 'elephant trap' for him
If MPs back the extension and refuse to give Johnson an election before 31st October, then from what he said just now he either has to resign or break the law.
The first is looking likely, but the second?
Johnson resigning as PM would be perfect for Corbyn. Him breaking the law to take us out on a No Deal would be a pretty close second.
Quite obviously the point of that is to prevent the thing falling through if Brussels offers a different date from the one the PM is mandated to request.
It hands the keys to the Commons, not to Brussels.
A Commons the majority of whom are Remain/Anti No Deal, so in this regard the Commons and Brussels are analogous.
If MPs back the extension and refuse to give Johnson an election before 31st October, then from what he said just now he either has to resign or break the law.
Boris will of course refuse to implement an extension using the royal prerogative and would not be breaking the law as Bills need royal signature to become law.
Though Corbyn said today he would back an election regardless despite Blair warning Corbyn Boris had set an 'elephant trap' for him
Boris Johnson is not yet the Queen.
The Queen does what Boris says as she showed when she prorogued Parliament at his request, he is her Chief Minister after all unless the Commons votes for an election or another Chief Minister
If MPs back the extension and refuse to give Johnson an election before 31st October, then from what he said just now he either has to resign or break the law.
The first is looking likely, but the second?
Johnson resigning as PM would be perfect for Corbyn. Him breaking the law to take us out on a No Deal would be a pretty close second.
That can only happen after MPs have refused an election, an election that Corbyn said he'd support.
Meanwhile Hammond is focusing on how is Boris negotiation coming along.
Boris and his supporters repeatedly talk up the progress he’s making in his recent visits to Berlin and to Paris, and at the G7 summit in Biarritz. Can someone who believes this is true and isn’t bullshit explain what this progress is?
The only sense Boris has made so far was in his Merkel press conference, accepting there can only be change if UK puts some credible proposals on the table. But we only negotiate something better by actually negotiating, true to say isn’t it? And there can only be some merit Keeping no deal on table and supposedly coerce EU to back down, so we achieve a better deal, if the no deal threat will hurt them as much as it hurts us? Does anyone really believe No deal impacts EU as much as it will impact the UK? If so explain your reasoning to a sceptical audience all ears to learn the truth.
Because ultimately what hurts UK from No Deal is not just the indelible impact on our farming and other industry and business in such a fast forward to global Britain , but the political crisis in Britain extending into the longer term, because we wouldn’t be able to get EU to table and compromise without ourselves climbing down and sucking up exactly what they are currently asking from us. In other words, just as May and the Conservative moderates explained, we can only achieve leave deal with EU by making a compromise, and its damn harder for us to make that compromise after a no deal Brexit. We will become even more firmly stuck in a political crisis that impacts EU to far lesser degree than ourselves.
This is not a remainer argument, this is an argument any staunch leaver with more than three active brain cells can make. No deal is certainly not the end of it. It is not closure and move on. No deal isn’t actually an answer to anything, it’s a billboard to the world of our failure to achieve that answer. A symbol of failure etched forever into British history.
Very eloquent. And largely true.
You ignore one thing though. If we annul the referendum vote with revoke, or a 2nd referendum, that’s a big fat signal to the world that British democracy is over.
Quite obviously the point of that is to prevent the thing falling through if Brussels offers a different date from the one the PM is mandated to request.
It hands the keys to the Commons, not to Brussels.
A Commons the majority of whom are Remain/Anti No Deal, so in this regard the Commons and Brussels are analogous.
The country voted a UK parliament in 2017. It is ridiculous to suggest the UK parliament represents the EU and not the UK!!
If the election was October 14, days before the EU Council meeting, imagine the fun if the UK returns a horrifically hung Parliament and there's days and days of coalition/C&S negotiations between parties before anyone actually forms a Government.
Yes. Shouting 'Stop the coup' as a freely elected parliament is about to resume around the corner while the oppositions try to decide whether to mandate another free election seems odd. Hardly North Korea or even Hong Kong is it?
You have to admit, it's easier than chanting "stop doing what I don't want you to do".
In the GE, the remain parties should make up a big thing of killing 10 million lambs in order to no deal. It shows how absurd this has become.
You can’t run that line and the line that there’ll be food shortages. In the complex, real world both things can be true but if you try and say so in a debate you’ll be destroyed.
You can't grasp that if there is disruption of imports and exports there could be a surplus of a food we normally export and a shortage of a food we normally import?
You really can't understand such a simple concept?
Anyone still claiming there’s a master strategy? It all looks like Frank Spencer rollerskating tonight.
Does it? Lose the vote tomorrow, put millions of sweeties in the SR on Wednesday having spent PMQs framing the vote. Then dare Corbyn not to support an election (defining the date in legislation if needs be, seeing as how no one now believes him).
Seems clear to me. And clearly being well briefed to the media.
Boris is playing this smart, he's ensuring that if there is an election it is because Parliament has backed him into a corner. Not simply trying to capitalise on recent double-digit poll leads like May did.
I think I read that as part of the prologuing of parliament washup, all passed bills are automatically given royal assent. Is that right? Be hilarious if Boris is undone by his own coup.
If MPs back the extension and refuse to give Johnson an election before 31st October, then from what he said just now he either has to resign or break the law.
Boris will of course refuse to implement an extension using the royal prerogative and would not be breaking the law as Bills need royal signature to become law.
Though Corbyn said today he would back an election regardless despite Blair warning Corbyn Boris had set an 'elephant trap' for him
Good luck with that HYUFD!
No need, as Blair said an early election will see the Corbyn factor likely ensure Boris is re elected while it will be pre No Deal on October 31st so no economic problems yet either and Leave voters united behind Tories to deliver Brexit at last
In the GE, the remain parties should make up a big thing of killing 10 million lambs in order to no deal. It shows how absurd this has become.
You can’t run that line and the line that there’ll be food shortages. In the complex, real world both things can be true but if you try and say so in a debate you’ll be destroyed.
You can't grasp that if there is disruption of imports and exports there could be a surplus of a food we normally export and a shortage of a food we normally import?
You really can't understand such a simple concept?
I can. That’s why I said so in my post. You seem to be the one unable to read English....
You still can’t use that line in an election. It won’t work - it looks inconsistent.
I reckon he received some internal large poll [ something similar to YouGov 50000 ] and went frit. Clearly, if his strategy is NOT all out No Deal but "Deal but if EU do not play ball, then No Deal" will not appease BXP or even the ERG for that matter. I am not sure what the hoo-ha was about ?
Meanwhile Hammond is focusing on how is Boris negotiation coming along.
Boris and his supporters repeatedly talk up the progress he’s making in his recent visits to Berlin and to Paris, and at the G7 summit in Biarritz. Can someone who believes this is true and isn’t bullshit explain what this progress is?
The only sense Boris has made so far was in his Merkel press conference, accepting there can only be change if UK puts some credible proposals on the table. But we only negotiate something better by actually negotiating, true to say isn’t it? And there can only be some merit Keeping no deal on table and supposedly coerce EU to back down, so we achieve a better deal, if the no deal threat will hurt them as much as it hurts us? Does anyone really believe No deal impacts EU as much as it will impact the UK? If so explain your reasoning to a sceptical audience all ears to learn the truth.
Because ultimately what hurts UK from No Deal is not just the indelible impact on our farming and other industry and business in such a fast forward to global Britain , but the political crisis in Britain extending into the longer term, because we wouldn’t be able to get EU to table and compromise without ourselves climbing down and sucking up exactly what they are currently asking from us. In other words, just as May and the Conservative moderates explained, we can only achieve leave deal with EU by making a compromise, and its damn harder for us to make that compromise after a no deal Brexit. We will become even more firmly stuck in a political crisis that impacts EU to far lesser degree than ourselves.
This is not a remainer argument, this is an argument any staunch leaver with more than three active brain cells can make. No deal is certainly not the end of it. It is not closure and move on. No deal isn’t actually an answer to anything, it’s a billboard to the world of our failure to achieve that answer. A symbol of failure etched forever into British history.
Very eloquent. And largely true.
You ignore one thing though. If we annul the referendum vote with revoke, or a 2nd referendum, that’s a big fat signal to the world that British democracy is over.
Take a look at Hong Kong before you dispense with your hyperbole. That’s the Brexit line right?
Meanwhile Hammond is focusing on how is Boris negotiation coming along.
Boris and his supporters repeatedly talk up the progress he’s making in his recent visits to Berlin and to Paris, and at the G7 summit in Biarritz. Can someone who believes this is true and isn’t bullshit explain what this progress is?
The only sense Boris has made so far was in his Merkel press conference, accepting there can only be change if UK puts some credible proposals on the table. But we only negotiate something better by actually negotiating, true to say isn’t it? And there can only be some merit Keeping no deal on table and supposedly coerce EU to back down, so we achieve a better deal, if the no deal threat will hurt them as much as it hurts us? Does anyone really believe No deal impacts EU as much as it will impact the UK? If so explain your reasoning to a sceptical audience all ears to learn the truth.
Because ultimately what hurts UK from No Deal is not just the indelible impact on our farming and other industry and business in such a fast forward to global Britain , but the political crisis in Britain extending into the longer term, because we wouldn’t be able to get EU to table and compromise without ourselves climbing down and sucking up exactly what they are currently asking from us. In other words, just as May and the Conservative moderates explained, we can only achieve leave deal with EU by making a compromise, and its damn harder for us to make that compromise after a no deal Brexit. We will become even more firmly stuck in a political crisis that impacts EU to far lesser degree than ourselves.
This is not a remainer argument, this is an argument any staunch leaver with more than three active brain cells can make. No deal is certainly not the end of it. It is not closure and move on. No deal isn’t actually an answer to anything, it’s a billboard to the world of our failure to achieve that answer. A symbol of failure etched forever into British history.
Very eloquent. And largely true.
You ignore one thing though. If we annul the referendum vote with revoke, or a 2nd referendum, that’s a big fat signal to the world that British democracy is over.
It's a big fat signal to the world that the EU has arrived as a world power and should be taken seriously, and we can be part of it.
I think I read that as part of the prologuing of parliament washup, all passed bills are automatically given royal assent. Is that right? Be hilarious if Boris is undone by his own coup.
In the scenario where the rebel bill is passed, I don't think they were relying on prorogation nullifying it. Rather, they are hoping that there will be a new parliament which could repeal the bill.
Boris is playing this smart, he's ensuring that if there is an election it is because Parliament has backed him into a corner. Not simply trying to capitalise on recent double-digit poll leads like May did.
That was obviously his plan last week when he prorogued yet the leaver posters here were adamant he wanted no deal not an election. If it is working with politically engaged posters on here it will probably work with the electorate.
The mistake is he has gone too far and made it very easy for those who have no time for Corbyn to vote Labour rather than LD/Green in Lab-Tory marginals.
I think I read that as part of the prologuing of parliament washup, all passed bills are automatically given royal assent. Is that right? Be hilarious if Boris is undone by his own coup.
In the scenario where the rebel bill is passed, I don't think they were relying on prorogation nullifying it. Rather, they are hoping that there will be a new parliament which could repeal the bill.
That only works if we have an election. I know we probably will but its not guaranteed.
If MPs back the extension and refuse to give Johnson an election before 31st October, then from what he said just now he either has to resign or break the law.
Boris will of course refuse to implement an extension using the royal prerogative and would not be breaking the law as Bills need royal signature to become law.
Though Corbyn said today he would back an election regardless despite Blair warning Corbyn Boris had set an 'elephant trap' for him
Good luck with that HYUFD!
No need, as Blair said an early election will see the Corbyn factor likely ensure Boris is re elected while it will be pre No Deal on October 31st so no economic problems yet either and Leave voters united behind Tories to deliver Brexit at last
I would expect the Tories to win an election, but it is not up to Johnson when it takes place. And he is doing all that he can to put the 2017 Labour voting coalition back together again - with the added frisson of certain SNP and probable LibDem gains. It is a huge gamble.
Comments
They won’t back him, so a GE is imminent. What he wants to do is make sure it doesn’t look like HE chose it after what happened to TMay. He wants it to look like he was forced into it.
I'm sure Mrs T would have been greeted by some nasty chants if she'd made lecturn statements in Downing St.
Can't remember her doing it much?
Not like Brown or May at all. For goodness sake, political junkies cant wait even one day.
It hands the keys to the Commons, not to Brussels.
Get a grip.
https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1168568080630472704
Are the Libdems ready for an election? Labour will be fine as they can call on the unions, but what about the libdems?
He'll be back on the steps later in the week. Maybe for a 10pm news, when there's fewer howling middle class white people beyond the gates to Downing Street...They'll all be safely tucked up back in Islington by then.
"Who do you want at EU Council? Me or Corbyn?"
Message to Brexit Party supporters: "Farage can't be PM, it's me or Corbyn"
LOL.
Boris and his supporters repeatedly talk up the progress he’s making in his recent visits to Berlin and to Paris, and at the G7 summit in Biarritz. Can someone who believes this is true and isn’t bullshit explain what this progress is?
The only sense Boris has made so far was in his Merkel press conference, accepting there can only be change if UK puts some credible proposals on the table. But we only negotiate something better by actually negotiating, true to say isn’t it? And there can only be some merit Keeping no deal on table and supposedly coerce EU to back down, so we achieve a better deal, if the no deal threat will hurt them as much as it hurts us? Does anyone really believe No deal impacts EU as much as it will impact the UK? If so explain your reasoning to a sceptical audience all ears to learn the truth.
Because ultimately what hurts UK from No Deal is not just the indelible impact on our farming and other industry and business in such a fast forward to global Britain , but the political crisis in Britain extending into the longer term, because we wouldn’t be able to get EU to table and compromise without ourselves climbing down and sucking up exactly what they are currently asking from us. In other words, just as May and the Conservative moderates explained, we can only achieve leave deal with EU by making a compromise, and its damn harder for us to make that compromise after a no deal Brexit. We will become even more firmly stuck in a political crisis that impacts EU to far lesser degree than ourselves.
This is not a remainer argument, this is an argument any staunch leaver with more than three active brain cells can make. No deal is certainly not the end of it. It is not closure and move on. No deal isn’t actually an answer to anything, it’s a billboard to the world of our failure to achieve that answer. A symbol of failure etched forever into British history.
Though Corbyn said today he would back an election regardless despite Blair warning Corbyn Boris had set an 'elephant trap' for him
"In a few days time there will be a European summit that will determine our fate. Only one of two people can go to that summit: me or Jeremy Corbyn. I will be resolute that if we do not get a good deal for Britain, we will come out regardless. Jeremy Corbyn will fold like a wet lettuce. Every vote for me will strengthen my hand in the negotiations."
Is he a Great Man or an unprincipled and essentially vacuous lump of privilege?
Hard to say right now but time will tell.
It feels very Brexits means Brexit
malcolmg said:
» show previous quotes
Did it taste 200 times better than a £50 bottle, or 500 times better than a £20 bottle.
Even wine experts can only do a little bit better than 50/50 guessing when comparing a £50 or £10 bottle of wine in blind tasting.
Exactly it is just for rich twunts to try and make themselves feel important
You ignore one thing though. If we annul the referendum vote with revoke, or a 2nd referendum, that’s a big fat signal to the world that British democracy is over.
You really can't understand such a simple concept?
Seems clear to me. And clearly being well briefed to the media.
There’s clearly a strategy. Get MPs so desperate they eventually agree to a new deal, offered by a spooked EU. Whether it works is moot.
What you’re seeing is tactics. Which vary from day to day, like skirmishes in a larger war.
This is all for the general public, who do NOT want another election.
He is basically going to spin it as "look what those bad, nasty MP's made me do".
Doesn't want to get the blame for yet another election.
You still can’t use that line in an election. It won’t work - it looks inconsistent.
I am not sure what the hoo-ha was about ?
The mistake is he has gone too far and made it very easy for those who have no time for Corbyn to vote Labour rather than LD/Green in Lab-Tory marginals.
https://twitter.com/tomhfh/status/1168576529326059524
Wow. Get that guy on a cure for a cancer and time travel, that's what I say.
Wasted on all this trivia.