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  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,869

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Tuesday’s LibDem hold in Cardiff:

    LD 1920 [55.3%; +18.9%]
    Con 838 [24.1%; -11.9%]
    Lab 560 [16.1%; -3.3%]
    PC 152 [4.4% +4.4%]
    Grn 0 [[0.0%; -8.1%]]

    I assume the Green candidate didn’t live in the ward...

    Zero votes for a candidate from a national party! How often does that happen?
    Hardly ever - especially in a BIG ward pulling in 3,500 votes in a by-election.

    It gives the lie to those PB’ers who suggest that Green supporters aren’t willing to vote LibDem. Brexit is the overriding issue and in a key defence not one Green supporter stuck with their previous choice.
    Not even the candidate him/herself :lol:
    As I said, the candidate likely doesn’t live in the ward. You only need to live in the LA area to stand.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,884
    rcs1000 said:

    You know, I peeked into the 'other' PB.com a little while ago. Goodness, what a civilised place that was compared to here.

    SeanT is still there, ranting admittedly but still there. TSE is still got a raging..... well, he still likes Cameron. And the discussions are civil. All the talk is about how Osborne is the shoe in against May. He basically got to pick his opponent, and Theresa May, well she might've been okay as Home Secretary but as PM material she'll never beat the Boy Wonder.

    Announcement of that Leadership contest is during Conference season and its widely expected Osborne will win, win handily and then go on to beat Corbyn in 2020 for his majority. Sure, Farage and UKIP are still a threat but three years later after the 52% Remain win, the country is moving on.

    And Osborne's win next year will mean the end of Corbyn and hopefully the Labour party can get back on its feet again. There's talk Benn or Watson will take over, or even Ed make a return.

    Of course, the Lib Dems are still struggling on 10%, but Farron can't have it all.


    What a civilised place that place is!

    They could do a remake of the Man in the High Castle set in Brexitlandia 2030 where people can travel between that reality and a different world in which Remain won.
    There would be a lot of refugees desperately trying to escape from Remainica to Brexitlandia
    Personally I'd be using this alternate universe switcher to seek out rather more interesting places that Remainica and Brexlandia!
    Remainia and Brexitania, surely?
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    edited July 2019
    The key thing is that Johnson has less authority over parliament than May had, at the point of his maximum leverage - because he hasn't distributed his patronage yet, nor yet disappointed those hoping for jobs.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Tuesday’s LibDem hold in Cardiff:

    LD 1920 [55.3%; +18.9%]
    Con 838 [24.1%; -11.9%]
    Lab 560 [16.1%; -3.3%]
    PC 152 [4.4% +4.4%]
    Grn 0 [[0.0%; -8.1%]]

    I assume the Green candidate didn’t live in the ward...

    Zero votes for a candidate from a national party! How often does that happen?
    Hardly ever - especially in a BIG ward pulling in 3,500 votes in a by-election.

    It gives the lie to those PB’ers who suggest that Green supporters aren’t willing to vote LibDem. Brexit is the overriding issue and in a key defence not one Green supporter stuck with their previous choice.
    Not even the candidate him/herself :lol:
    They need to live in the ward to be able to that or they might have forgot!
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,720
    rcs1000 said:

    You know, I peeked into the 'other' PB.com a little while ago. Goodness, what a civilised place that was compared to here.

    SeanT is still there, ranting admittedly but still there. TSE is still got a raging..... well, he still likes Cameron. And the discussions are civil. All the talk is about how Osborne is the shoe in against May. He basically got to pick his opponent, and Theresa May, well she might've been okay as Home Secretary but as PM material she'll never beat the Boy Wonder.

    Announcement of that Leadership contest is during Conference season and its widely expected Osborne will win, win handily and then go on to beat Corbyn in 2020 for his majority. Sure, Farage and UKIP are still a threat but three years later after the 52% Remain win, the country is moving on.

    And Osborne's win next year will mean the end of Corbyn and hopefully the Labour party can get back on its feet again. There's talk Benn or Watson will take over, or even Ed make a return.

    Of course, the Lib Dems are still struggling on 10%, but Farron can't have it all.


    What a civilised place that place is!

    They could do a remake of the Man in the High Castle set in Brexitlandia 2030 where people can travel between that reality and a different world in which Remain won.
    There would be a lot of refugees desperately trying to escape from Remainica to Brexitlandia
    Personally I'd be using this alternate universe switcher to seek out rather more interesting places that Remainica and Brexlandia!
    I'd like to visit Nofirstworldwaria.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,884
    rpjs said:

    eek said:

    There is no good outcome from here. The country is going to be consumed by Brexit for many years to come, with no stable settlement in sight.

    This is why I'm leaning to No Deal.

    I think they country will stomach it for six months max, and then we'll rejoin, and the Leavers will have no credibility to oppose it.

    Every time they'll say no, rejoining will be a disaster, the country will remind them they said No Deal was Project Fear and/or No Deal will be fine.
    Why would the EU let us rejoin, there are other far less troublesome places (such as say Serbia) in the queue ahead of us...
    Why wouldn't they? No more opt-outs, including from Schengen and the Euro.
    Don't Sweden and Denmark still have their own currencies.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    Can indeed confirm from the ground in Newcastle upon Tyne North that turnout is certainly not brisk.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,237

    rpjs said:

    eek said:

    There is no good outcome from here. The country is going to be consumed by Brexit for many years to come, with no stable settlement in sight.

    This is why I'm leaning to No Deal.

    I think they country will stomach it for six months max, and then we'll rejoin, and the Leavers will have no credibility to oppose it.

    Every time they'll say no, rejoining will be a disaster, the country will remind them they said No Deal was Project Fear and/or No Deal will be fine.
    Why would the EU let us rejoin, there are other far less troublesome places (such as say Serbia) in the queue ahead of us...
    Why wouldn't they? No more opt-outs, including from Schengen and the Euro.
    Don't Sweden and Denmark still have their own currencies.
    Poland and Romania too.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    rpjs said:

    eek said:

    There is no good outcome from here. The country is going to be consumed by Brexit for many years to come, with no stable settlement in sight.

    This is why I'm leaning to No Deal.

    I think they country will stomach it for six months max, and then we'll rejoin, and the Leavers will have no credibility to oppose it.

    Every time they'll say no, rejoining will be a disaster, the country will remind them they said No Deal was Project Fear and/or No Deal will be fine.
    Why would the EU let us rejoin, there are other far less troublesome places (such as say Serbia) in the queue ahead of us...
    Why wouldn't they? No more opt-outs, including from Schengen and the Euro.
    Don't Sweden and Denmark still have their own currencies.
    If we are to be in, we might as well be in all the way.
  • ralphmalphralphmalph Posts: 2,201
    nichomar said:

    There is no good outcome from here. The country is going to be consumed by Brexit for many years to come, with no stable settlement in sight.

    This is why I'm leaning to No Deal.

    I think they country will stomach it for six months max, and then we'll rejoin, and the Leavers will have no credibility to oppose it.

    Every time they'll say no, rejoining will be a disaster, the country will remind them they said No Deal was Project Fear and/or No Deal will be fine.
    I have some sympathy for that view but I have three professional children trying to make their way in a difficult world and given the sectors they work in a no deal exit could scupper them for years to come, ok you can tell me where the sunlit uplands are but that view is disappearing of the agenda as principle overtakes sanity. I’m protected apart from a limited exposure living in Spain but I’m still waiting for someone to come up with a sane argument to leave which is based around economics, or one that gives those who voted for it what they sought to achieve.
    Go and read the OBR report from this morning and look at the GDP growth figures for the economy after we have got over the 12 month economic adjustment period.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,237
    rcs1000 said:

    rpjs said:

    eek said:

    There is no good outcome from here. The country is going to be consumed by Brexit for many years to come, with no stable settlement in sight.

    This is why I'm leaning to No Deal.

    I think they country will stomach it for six months max, and then we'll rejoin, and the Leavers will have no credibility to oppose it.

    Every time they'll say no, rejoining will be a disaster, the country will remind them they said No Deal was Project Fear and/or No Deal will be fine.
    Why would the EU let us rejoin, there are other far less troublesome places (such as say Serbia) in the queue ahead of us...
    Why wouldn't they? No more opt-outs, including from Schengen and the Euro.
    Don't Sweden and Denmark still have their own currencies.
    Poland and Romania too.
    And the Czech Republic. And I'm probably forgetting some other places...
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,733
    rcs1000 said:

    rpjs said:

    eek said:

    There is no good outcome from here. The country is going to be consumed by Brexit for many years to come, with no stable settlement in sight.

    This is why I'm leaning to No Deal.

    I think they country will stomach it for six months max, and then we'll rejoin, and the Leavers will have no credibility to oppose it.

    Every time they'll say no, rejoining will be a disaster, the country will remind them they said No Deal was Project Fear and/or No Deal will be fine.
    Why would the EU let us rejoin, there are other far less troublesome places (such as say Serbia) in the queue ahead of us...
    Why wouldn't they? No more opt-outs, including from Schengen and the Euro.
    Don't Sweden and Denmark still have their own currencies.
    Poland and Romania too.
    And Czechia.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,237
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rpjs said:

    eek said:

    There is no good outcome from here. The country is going to be consumed by Brexit for many years to come, with no stable settlement in sight.

    This is why I'm leaning to No Deal.

    I think they country will stomach it for six months max, and then we'll rejoin, and the Leavers will have no credibility to oppose it.

    Every time they'll say no, rejoining will be a disaster, the country will remind them they said No Deal was Project Fear and/or No Deal will be fine.
    Why would the EU let us rejoin, there are other far less troublesome places (such as say Serbia) in the queue ahead of us...
    Why wouldn't they? No more opt-outs, including from Schengen and the Euro.
    Don't Sweden and Denmark still have their own currencies.
    Poland and Romania too.
    And the Czech Republic. And I'm probably forgetting some other places...
    Like Bulgaria?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,869

    rcs1000 said:

    You know, I peeked into the 'other' PB.com a little while ago. Goodness, what a civilised place that was compared to here.

    SeanT is still there, ranting admittedly but still there. TSE is still got a raging..... well, he still likes Cameron. And the discussions are civil. All the talk is about how Osborne is the shoe in against May. He basically got to pick his opponent, and Theresa May, well she might've been okay as Home Secretary but as PM material she'll never beat the Boy Wonder.

    Announcement of that Leadership contest is during Conference season and its widely expected Osborne will win, win handily and then go on to beat Corbyn in 2020 for his majority. Sure, Farage and UKIP are still a threat but three years later after the 52% Remain win, the country is moving on.

    And Osborne's win next year will mean the end of Corbyn and hopefully the Labour party can get back on its feet again. There's talk Benn or Watson will take over, or even Ed make a return.

    Of course, the Lib Dems are still struggling on 10%, but Farron can't have it all.


    What a civilised place that place is!

    They could do a remake of the Man in the High Castle set in Brexitlandia 2030 where people can travel between that reality and a different world in which Remain won.
    There would be a lot of refugees desperately trying to escape from Remainica to Brexitlandia
    Personally I'd be using this alternate universe switcher to seek out rather more interesting places that Remainica and Brexlandia!
    I'd like to visit Nofirstworldwaria.
    You really want to be working below stairs in some dusty stately home?
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,572
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rpjs said:

    eek said:

    There is no good outcome from here. The country is going to be consumed by Brexit for many years to come, with no stable settlement in sight.

    This is why I'm leaning to No Deal.

    I think they country will stomach it for six months max, and then we'll rejoin, and the Leavers will have no credibility to oppose it.

    Every time they'll say no, rejoining will be a disaster, the country will remind them they said No Deal was Project Fear and/or No Deal will be fine.
    Why would the EU let us rejoin, there are other far less troublesome places (such as say Serbia) in the queue ahead of us...
    Why wouldn't they? No more opt-outs, including from Schengen and the Euro.
    Don't Sweden and Denmark still have their own currencies.
    Poland and Romania too.
    And the Czech Republic. And I'm probably forgetting some other places...
    Like Bulgaria?
    and Hungary
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,914

    There is no good outcome from here. The country is going to be consumed by Brexit for many years to come, with no stable settlement in sight.

    I fear you are right
    I hope you are right.
    Anarchist
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,572

    rcs1000 said:

    You know, I peeked into the 'other' PB.com a little while ago. Goodness, what a civilised place that was compared to here.

    SeanT is still there, ranting admittedly but still there. TSE is still got a raging..... well, he still likes Cameron. And the discussions are civil. All the talk is about how Osborne is the shoe in against May. He basically got to pick his opponent, and Theresa May, well she might've been okay as Home Secretary but as PM material she'll never beat the Boy Wonder.

    Announcement of that Leadership contest is during Conference season and its widely expected Osborne will win, win handily and then go on to beat Corbyn in 2020 for his majority. Sure, Farage and UKIP are still a threat but three years later after the 52% Remain win, the country is moving on.

    And Osborne's win next year will mean the end of Corbyn and hopefully the Labour party can get back on its feet again. There's talk Benn or Watson will take over, or even Ed make a return.

    Of course, the Lib Dems are still struggling on 10%, but Farron can't have it all.


    What a civilised place that place is!

    They could do a remake of the Man in the High Castle set in Brexitlandia 2030 where people can travel between that reality and a different world in which Remain won.
    There would be a lot of refugees desperately trying to escape from Remainica to Brexitlandia
    Personally I'd be using this alternate universe switcher to seek out rather more interesting places that Remainica and Brexlandia!
    I'd like to visit Nofirstworldwaria.
    I think we can definitely agree on that one.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Apparently there wasn’t a candidate
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Tuesday’s LibDem hold in Cardiff:

    LD 1920 [55.3%; +18.9%]
    Con 838 [24.1%; -11.9%]
    Lab 560 [16.1%; -3.3%]
    PC 152 [4.4% +4.4%]
    Grn 0 [[0.0%; -8.1%]]

    I assume the Green candidate didn’t live in the ward...

    Zero votes for a candidate from a national party! How often does that happen?
    Hardly ever - especially in a BIG ward pulling in 3,500 votes in a by-election.

    It gives the lie to those PB’ers who suggest that Green supporters aren’t willing to vote LibDem. Brexit is the overriding issue and in a key defence not one Green supporter stuck with their previous choice.
    Not even the candidate him/herself :lol:
    As I said, the candidate likely doesn’t live in the ward. You only need to live in the LA area to stand.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,733
    It seems we have already taken back control of our kippers!

    I love the way this woman explains it. It is like watching a mother explain to a toddler wearing a cape that leaping from the roof is not a good idea.

    https://news.sky.com/video/eu-kipper-rules-set-by-uk-government-11765828

    Boris, the master negotiator is going to go down in Europe like a turd in a swimming pool.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,237

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rpjs said:

    eek said:

    There is no good outcome from here. The country is going to be consumed by Brexit for many years to come, with no stable settlement in sight.

    This is why I'm leaning to No Deal.

    I think they country will stomach it for six months max, and then we'll rejoin, and the Leavers will have no credibility to oppose it.

    Every time they'll say no, rejoining will be a disaster, the country will remind them they said No Deal was Project Fear and/or No Deal will be fine.
    Why would the EU let us rejoin, there are other far less troublesome places (such as say Serbia) in the queue ahead of us...
    Why wouldn't they? No more opt-outs, including from Schengen and the Euro.
    Don't Sweden and Denmark still have their own currencies.
    Poland and Romania too.
    And the Czech Republic. And I'm probably forgetting some other places...
    Like Bulgaria?
    and Hungary
    Ah yes, I forgot about the Florint.

    Last one is Croatia...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rpjs said:

    eek said:

    There is no good outcome from here. The country is going to be consumed by Brexit for many years to come, with no stable settlement in sight.

    This is why I'm leaning to No Deal.

    I think they country will stomach it for six months max, and then we'll rejoin, and the Leavers will have no credibility to oppose it.

    Every time they'll say no, rejoining will be a disaster, the country will remind them they said No Deal was Project Fear and/or No Deal will be fine.
    Why would the EU let us rejoin, there are other far less troublesome places (such as say Serbia) in the queue ahead of us...
    Why wouldn't they? No more opt-outs, including from Schengen and the Euro.
    Don't Sweden and Denmark still have their own currencies.
    Poland and Romania too.
    And the Czech Republic. And I'm probably forgetting some other places...
    Like Bulgaria?
    and Hungary
    That's a zloty of countries with their own currencies.

    (In order to make the pun work, I'm gambling most people don't know how to pronounce that.)
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,884
    rcs1000 said:

    rpjs said:

    eek said:

    There is no good outcome from here. The country is going to be consumed by Brexit for many years to come, with no stable settlement in sight.

    This is why I'm leaning to No Deal.

    I think they country will stomach it for six months max, and then we'll rejoin, and the Leavers will have no credibility to oppose it.

    Every time they'll say no, rejoining will be a disaster, the country will remind them they said No Deal was Project Fear and/or No Deal will be fine.
    Why would the EU let us rejoin, there are other far less troublesome places (such as say Serbia) in the queue ahead of us...
    Why wouldn't they? No more opt-outs, including from Schengen and the Euro.
    Don't Sweden and Denmark still have their own currencies.
    Poland and Romania too.
    But I think they are "supposed" to adopt the Euro eventually, along with Hungary, Czechia and Romania.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,722
    Interesting portrayal of what Johnson may be like as a prime minister by his biographer, as a man of "negative capability" (Keats).
    https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2019/07/what-johnson-will-be-like-as-prime-minister.html
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Foxy said:

    It seems we have already taken back control of our kippers!

    I love the way this woman explains it. It is like watching a mother explain to a toddler wearing a cape that leaping from the roof is not a good idea.

    https://news.sky.com/video/eu-kipper-rules-set-by-uk-government-11765828

    Boris, the master negotiator is going to go down in Europe like a turd in a swimming pool.
    That has ruined my night a turd in my swimming pool would be a dump too far
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,733

    rcs1000 said:

    You know, I peeked into the 'other' PB.com a little while ago. Goodness, what a civilised place that was compared to here.

    SeanT is still there, ranting admittedly but still there. TSE is still got a raging..... well, he still likes Cameron. And the discussions are civil. All the talk is about how Osborne is the shoe in against May. He basically got to pick his opponent, and Theresa May, well she might've been okay as Home Secretary but as PM material she'll never beat the Boy Wonder.

    Announcement of that Leadership contest is during Conference season and its widely expected Osborne will win, win handily and then go on to beat Corbyn in 2020 for his majority. Sure, Farage and UKIP are still a threat but three years later after the 52% Remain win, the country is moving on.

    And Osborne's win next year will mean the end of Corbyn and hopefully the Labour party can get back on its feet again. There's talk Benn or Watson will take over, or even Ed make a return.

    Of course, the Lib Dems are still struggling on 10%, but Farron can't have it all.


    What a civilised place that place is!

    They could do a remake of the Man in the High Castle set in Brexitlandia 2030 where people can travel between that reality and a different world in which Remain won.
    There would be a lot of refugees desperately trying to escape from Remainica to Brexitlandia
    Personally I'd be using this alternate universe switcher to seek out rather more interesting places that Remainica and Brexlandia!
    I'd like to visit Nofirstworldwaria.
    Somewhere hot with cheap servants? What's not to like?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,237
    Foxy said:

    It seems we have already taken back control of our kippers!

    I love the way this woman explains it. It is like watching a mother explain to a toddler wearing a cape that leaping from the roof is not a good idea.

    https://news.sky.com/video/eu-kipper-rules-set-by-uk-government-11765828

    Boris, the master negotiator is going to go down in Europe like a turd in a swimming pool.
    What I really resent about this is that Boris went to all the trouble to get a kipper, but couldn't be bothered to check what he was saying was accurate.

    It's so incredibly, deeply depressing.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,884
    nichomar said:

    Foxy said:

    It seems we have already taken back control of our kippers!

    I love the way this woman explains it. It is like watching a mother explain to a toddler wearing a cape that leaping from the roof is not a good idea.

    https://news.sky.com/video/eu-kipper-rules-set-by-uk-government-11765828

    Boris, the master negotiator is going to go down in Europe like a turd in a swimming pool.
    That has ruined my night a turd in my swimming pool would be a dump too far
    A Brexit Too Far.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,733
    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rpjs said:

    eek said:

    There is no good outcome from here. The country is going to be consumed by Brexit for many years to come, with no stable settlement in sight.

    This is why I'm leaning to No Deal.

    I think they country will stomach it for six months max, and then we'll rejoin, and the Leavers will have no credibility to oppose it.

    Every time they'll say no, rejoining will be a disaster, the country will remind them they said No Deal was Project Fear and/or No Deal will be fine.
    Why would the EU let us rejoin, there are other far less troublesome places (such as say Serbia) in the queue ahead of us...
    Why wouldn't they? No more opt-outs, including from Schengen and the Euro.
    Don't Sweden and Denmark still have their own currencies.
    Poland and Romania too.
    And the Czech Republic. And I'm probably forgetting some other places...
    Like Bulgaria?
    and Hungary
    That's a zloty of countries with their own currencies.

    (In order to make the pun work, I'm gambling most people don't know how to pronounce that.)
    That is a Rial-ly good pun.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    edited July 2019

    rpjs said:

    eek said:

    There is no good outcome from here. The country is going to be consumed by Brexit for many years to come, with no stable settlement in sight.

    This is why I'm leaning to No Deal.

    I think they country will stomach it for six months max, and then we'll rejoin, and the Leavers will have no credibility to oppose it.

    Every time they'll say no, rejoining will be a disaster, the country will remind them they said No Deal was Project Fear and/or No Deal will be fine.
    Why would the EU let us rejoin, there are other far less troublesome places (such as say Serbia) in the queue ahead of us...
    Why wouldn't they? No more opt-outs, including from Schengen and the Euro.
    Don't Sweden and Denmark still have their own currencies.
    Although in Denmark's case it's Krone in Name Only. To, um, coin a phrase.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,572
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    You know, I peeked into the 'other' PB.com a little while ago. Goodness, what a civilised place that was compared to here.

    SeanT is still there, ranting admittedly but still there. TSE is still got a raging..... well, he still likes Cameron. And the discussions are civil. All the talk is about how Osborne is the shoe in against May. He basically got to pick his opponent, and Theresa May, well she might've been okay as Home Secretary but as PM material she'll never beat the Boy Wonder.

    Announcement of that Leadership contest is during Conference season and its widely expected Osborne will win, win handily and then go on to beat Corbyn in 2020 for his majority. Sure, Farage and UKIP are still a threat but three years later after the 52% Remain win, the country is moving on.

    And Osborne's win next year will mean the end of Corbyn and hopefully the Labour party can get back on its feet again. There's talk Benn or Watson will take over, or even Ed make a return.

    Of course, the Lib Dems are still struggling on 10%, but Farron can't have it all.


    What a civilised place that place is!

    They could do a remake of the Man in the High Castle set in Brexitlandia 2030 where people can travel between that reality and a different world in which Remain won.
    There would be a lot of refugees desperately trying to escape from Remainica to Brexitlandia
    Partition of the country and mass population movements seem the only sane outcome.

    I think the refugees from Leverstan will outnumber those going the other way,
    I am sure you will be happy in your London ghetto.
    Leicester is part of Remania, and I think several of the other Leics counting areas will have flipped to Remain.
    Since you are such a fan of the EU I am sure you will agree that the partition should be based on EU regions. In which case your choice is a London ghetto or Scottish exile.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,869
    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    It seems we have already taken back control of our kippers!

    I love the way this woman explains it. It is like watching a mother explain to a toddler wearing a cape that leaping from the roof is not a good idea.

    https://news.sky.com/video/eu-kipper-rules-set-by-uk-government-11765828

    Boris, the master negotiator is going to go down in Europe like a turd in a swimming pool.
    What I really resent about this is that Boris went to all the trouble to get a kipper, but couldn't be bothered to check what he was saying was accurate.

    It's so incredibly, deeply depressing.
    The mindset shift he will need to make on entering Downing Street is going to come as a shock to him.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rpjs said:

    eek said:

    There is no good outcome from here. The country is going to be consumed by Brexit for many years to come, with no stable settlement in sight.

    This is why I'm leaning to No Deal.

    I think they country will stomach it for six months max, and then we'll rejoin, and the Leavers will have no credibility to oppose it.

    Every time they'll say no, rejoining will be a disaster, the country will remind them they said No Deal was Project Fear and/or No Deal will be fine.
    Why would the EU let us rejoin, there are other far less troublesome places (such as say Serbia) in the queue ahead of us...
    Why wouldn't they? No more opt-outs, including from Schengen and the Euro.
    Don't Sweden and Denmark still have their own currencies.
    Poland and Romania too.
    And the Czech Republic. And I'm probably forgetting some other places...
    Like Bulgaria?
    and Hungary
    That's a zloty of countries with their own currencies.

    (In order to make the pun work, I'm gambling most people don't know how to pronounce that.)
    That is a Rial-ly good pun.
    I was going for the Kroning glory.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    You know, I peeked into the 'other' PB.com a little while ago. Goodness, what a civilised place that was compared to here.

    SeanT is still there, ranting admittedly but still there. TSE is still got a raging..... well, he still likes Cameron. And the discussions are civil. All the talk is about how Osborne is the shoe in against May. He basically got to pick his opponent, and Theresa May, well she might've been okay as Home Secretary but as PM material she'll never beat the Boy Wonder.

    Announcement of that Leadership contest is during Conference season and its widely expected Osborne will win, win handily and then go on to beat Corbyn in 2020 for his majority. Sure, Farage and UKIP are still a threat but three years later after the 52% Remain win, the country is moving on.

    And Osborne's win next year will mean the end of Corbyn and hopefully the Labour party can get back on its feet again. There's talk Benn or Watson will take over, or even Ed make a return.

    Of course, the Lib Dems are still struggling on 10%, but Farron can't have it all.


    What a civilised place that place is!

    They could do a remake of the Man in the High Castle set in Brexitlandia 2030 where people can travel between that reality and a different world in which Remain won.
    There would be a lot of refugees desperately trying to escape from Remainica to Brexitlandia
    Partition of the country and mass population movements seem the only sane outcome.

    I think the refugees from Leverstan will outnumber those going the other way,
    I am sure you will be happy in your London ghetto.
    Leicester is part of Remania, and I think several of the other Leics counting areas will have flipped to Remain.
    Since you are such a fan of the EU I am sure you will agree that the partition should be based on EU regions. In which case your choice is a London ghetto or Scottish exile.
    I wouldn't mind living in Scotland. It's an amazing country and I've always found the Scots very friendly. Plus of course they are world beating growers of turnips.

    Wouldn't want to live in London. Absolute shithole.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    It seems we have already taken back control of our kippers!

    I love the way this woman explains it. It is like watching a mother explain to a toddler wearing a cape that leaping from the roof is not a good idea.

    https://news.sky.com/video/eu-kipper-rules-set-by-uk-government-11765828

    Boris, the master negotiator is going to go down in Europe like a turd in a swimming pool.
    What I really resent about this is that Boris went to all the trouble to get a kipper, but couldn't be bothered to check what he was saying was accurate.

    It's so incredibly, deeply depressing.
    I'm sure 95% of his audience would think that was the kind of regulation the EU would impose on the UK, and so Boris was bang on the money.
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    edited July 2019

    rcs1000 said:

    rpjs said:

    eek said:

    There is no good outcome from here. The country is going to be consumed by Brexit for many years to come, with no stable settlement in sight.

    This is why I'm leaning to No Deal.

    I think they country will stomach it for six months max, and then we'll rejoin, and the Leavers will have no credibility to oppose it.

    Every time they'll say no, rejoining will be a disaster, the country will remind them they said No Deal was Project Fear and/or No Deal will be fine.
    Why would the EU let us rejoin, there are other far less troublesome places (such as say Serbia) in the queue ahead of us...
    Why wouldn't they? No more opt-outs, including from Schengen and the Euro.
    Don't Sweden and Denmark still have their own currencies.
    Poland and Romania too.
    But I think they are "supposed" to adopt the Euro eventually, along with Hungary, Czechia and Romania.
    Yes, all new EU members, which the UK would be if let back in after crashing out and begging to return, are required to join Schengen and the Euro. The only countries with an actual opt-out from the Euro are the UK and Denmark. Now, in practice, a country that doesn't want to join the Euro can do so by failing to join the ERM, as that is a pre-requisite of joining the Euro but is not mandated to existing or new members. This is the mechanism Sweden uses to stay out.

    As to Schengen, Ireland also has an opt-out but that's only because of the CTA, They've already said many times that if the UK ever joined Schengen they would join it with us.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,869
    Johnson has taken a long warm bath in his fans’ adoration. This vote should serve as a cold shower of reality.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jul/18/commons-vote-boris-johnson-brexit-democracy
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,591

    nichomar said:

    There is no good outcome from here. The country is going to be consumed by Brexit for many years to come, with no stable settlement in sight.

    This is why I'm leaning to No Deal.

    I think they country will stomach it for six months max, and then we'll rejoin, and the Leavers will have no credibility to oppose it.

    Every time they'll say no, rejoining will be a disaster, the country will remind them they said No Deal was Project Fear and/or No Deal will be fine.
    I have some sympathy for that view but I have three professional children trying to make their way in a difficult world and given the sectors they work in a no deal exit could scupper them for years to come, ok you can tell me where the sunlit uplands are but that view is disappearing of the agenda as principle overtakes sanity. I’m protected apart from a limited exposure living in Spain but I’m still waiting for someone to come up with a sane argument to leave which is based around economics, or one that gives those who voted for it what they sought to achieve.
    Go and read the OBR report from this morning and look at the GDP growth figures for the economy after we have got over the 12 month economic adjustment period.
    "Adjustment period" = lots and lots of £ that will be lost solely because of Brexit.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238
    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rpjs said:

    eek said:

    There is no good outcome from here. The country is going to be consumed by Brexit for many years to come, with no stable settlement in sight.

    This is why I'm leaning to No Deal.

    I think they country will stomach it for six months max, and then we'll rejoin, and the Leavers will have no credibility to oppose it.

    Every time they'll say no, rejoining will be a disaster, the country will remind them they said No Deal was Project Fear and/or No Deal will be fine.
    Why would the EU let us rejoin, there are other far less troublesome places (such as say Serbia) in the queue ahead of us...
    Why wouldn't they? No more opt-outs, including from Schengen and the Euro.
    Don't Sweden and Denmark still have their own currencies.
    Poland and Romania too.
    And the Czech Republic. And I'm probably forgetting some other places...
    Like Bulgaria?
    and Hungary
    That's a zloty of countries with their own currencies.

    (In order to make the pun work, I'm gambling most people don't know how to pronounce that.)
    That is a Rial-ly good pun.
    I was going for the Kroning glory.
    We’ve pounded down this well worn track before.

    Could we not find a subject with more currency ?
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    rpjs said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rpjs said:

    eek said:

    There is no good outcome from here. The country is going to be consumed by Brexit for many years to come, with no stable settlement in sight.

    This is why I'm leaning to No Deal.

    I think they country will stomach it for six months max, and then we'll rejoin, and the Leavers will have no credibility to oppose it.

    Every time they'll say no, rejoining will be a disaster, the country will remind them they said No Deal was Project Fear and/or No Deal will be fine.
    Why would the EU let us rejoin, there are other far less troublesome places (such as say Serbia) in the queue ahead of us...
    Why wouldn't they? No more opt-outs, including from Schengen and the Euro.
    Don't Sweden and Denmark still have their own currencies.
    Poland and Romania too.
    But I think they are "supposed" to adopt the Euro eventually, along with Hungary, Czechia and Romania.
    Yes, all new EU members, which the UK would be if let back in after crashing out and begging to return, are required to join Schengen and the Euro. The only countries with an actual opt-out from the Euro are the UK and Denmark. Now, in practice, a country that doesn't want to join the Euro can do so by failing to join the ERM, as that is a pre-requisite of joining the Euro but is not mandated to existing or new members. This is the mechanism Sweden uses to stay out.

    As to Schengen, Ireland also has an opt-out but that's only because of the CTA, They've already said many times that if the UK ever joined Schengen they would join it with us.
    Assuming everything else was OK, I doubt the EU would impose the Euro on an unwilling UK. Why would it?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rpjs said:

    eek said:

    There is no good outcome from here. The country is going to be consumed by Brexit for many years to come, with no stable settlement in sight.

    This is why I'm leaning to No Deal.

    I think they country will stomach it for six months max, and then we'll rejoin, and the Leavers will have no credibility to oppose it.

    Every time they'll say no, rejoining will be a disaster, the country will remind them they said No Deal was Project Fear and/or No Deal will be fine.
    Why would the EU let us rejoin, there are other far less troublesome places (such as say Serbia) in the queue ahead of us...
    Why wouldn't they? No more opt-outs, including from Schengen and the Euro.
    Don't Sweden and Denmark still have their own currencies.
    Poland and Romania too.
    And the Czech Republic. And I'm probably forgetting some other places...
    Like Bulgaria?
    and Hungary
    That's a zloty of countries with their own currencies.

    (In order to make the pun work, I'm gambling most people don't know how to pronounce that.)
    That is a Rial-ly good pun.
    I was going for the Kroning glory.
    We’ve pounded down this well worn track before.

    Could we not find a subject with more currency ?
    Are you suggesting my puns are not up to the mark?

    Because if so, to be franc I must disagree.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    It seems we have already taken back control of our kippers!

    I love the way this woman explains it. It is like watching a mother explain to a toddler wearing a cape that leaping from the roof is not a good idea.

    https://news.sky.com/video/eu-kipper-rules-set-by-uk-government-11765828

    Boris, the master negotiator is going to go down in Europe like a turd in a swimming pool.
    What I really resent about this is that Boris went to all the trouble to get a kipper, but couldn't be bothered to check what he was saying was accurate.

    It's so incredibly, deeply depressing.
    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    It seems we have already taken back control of our kippers!

    I love the way this woman explains it. It is like watching a mother explain to a toddler wearing a cape that leaping from the roof is not a good idea.

    https://news.sky.com/video/eu-kipper-rules-set-by-uk-government-11765828

    Boris, the master negotiator is going to go down in Europe like a turd in a swimming pool.
    What I really resent about this is that Boris went to all the trouble to get a kipper, but couldn't be bothered to check what he was saying was accurate.

    It's so incredibly, deeply depressing.
    While I’m no fan of Johnson I think he might have been set up because he claimed that he had been sent the kipper by someone making a point. Now an astute politician would have thought
    1 kipper someone is taking the piss
    2 Manx kipper their definitely taking the piss
    3 elf and safety well that’s clearly the U.K. so they are clearly taking the piss.

    The sad thing is kippers will join bananas conkers and other right wing media myths into the vocabulary of the faithful which I will waste hours trying to tell them it’s bollocks but they will never believe me.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,884
    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rpjs said:

    eek said:

    There is no good outcome from here. The country is going to be consumed by Brexit for many years to come, with no stable settlement in sight.

    This is why I'm leaning to No Deal.

    I think they country will stomach it for six months max, and then we'll rejoin, and the Leavers will have no credibility to oppose it.

    Every time they'll say no, rejoining will be a disaster, the country will remind them they said No Deal was Project Fear and/or No Deal will be fine.
    Why would the EU let us rejoin, there are other far less troublesome places (such as say Serbia) in the queue ahead of us...
    Why wouldn't they? No more opt-outs, including from Schengen and the Euro.
    Don't Sweden and Denmark still have their own currencies.
    Poland and Romania too.
    And the Czech Republic. And I'm probably forgetting some other places...
    Like Bulgaria?
    and Hungary
    That's a zloty of countries with their own currencies.

    (In order to make the pun work, I'm gambling most people don't know how to pronounce that.)
    That is a Rial-ly good pun.
    I was going for the Kroning glory.
    We’ve pounded down this well worn track before.

    Could we not find a subject with more currency ?
    Cents and Sensibility?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238
    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    It seems we have already taken back control of our kippers!

    I love the way this woman explains it. It is like watching a mother explain to a toddler wearing a cape that leaping from the roof is not a good idea.

    https://news.sky.com/video/eu-kipper-rules-set-by-uk-government-11765828

    Boris, the master negotiator is going to go down in Europe like a turd in a swimming pool.
    What I really resent about this is that Boris went to all the trouble to get a kipper, but couldn't be bothered to check what he was saying was accurate.

    It's so incredibly, deeply depressing.
    Couldn’t be bothered to check ?

    You’re being ridiculously generous to the mendacious fnck.

  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,869
    edited July 2019
    nichomar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    It seems we have already taken back control of our kippers!

    I love the way this woman explains it. It is like watching a mother explain to a toddler wearing a cape that leaping from the roof is not a good idea.

    https://news.sky.com/video/eu-kipper-rules-set-by-uk-government-11765828

    Boris, the master negotiator is going to go down in Europe like a turd in a swimming pool.
    What I really resent about this is that Boris went to all the trouble to get a kipper, but couldn't be bothered to check what he was saying was accurate.

    It's so incredibly, deeply depressing.
    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    It seems we have already taken back control of our kippers!

    I love the way this woman explains it. It is like watching a mother explain to a toddler wearing a cape that leaping from the roof is not a good idea.

    https://news.sky.com/video/eu-kipper-rules-set-by-uk-government-11765828

    Boris, the master negotiator is going to go down in Europe like a turd in a swimming pool.
    What I really resent about this is that Boris went to all the trouble to get a kipper, but couldn't be bothered to check what he was saying was accurate.

    It's so incredibly, deeply depressing.
    While I’m no fan of Johnson I think he might have been set up because he claimed that he had been sent the kipper by someone making a point. Now an astute politician would have thought
    1 kipper someone is taking the piss
    2 Manx kipper their definitely taking the piss
    3 elf and safety well that’s clearly the U.K. so they are clearly taking the piss.

    The sad thing is kippers will join bananas conkers and other right wing media myths into the vocabulary of the faithful which I will waste hours trying to tell them it’s bollocks but they will never believe me.
    It illustrates how attracted the great Bozo is to stunts of any kind. Hence how London came to be littered with expensive elephants of many colours.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238
    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rpjs said:

    eek said:

    There is no good outcome from here. The country is going to be consumed by Brexit for many years to come, with no stable settlement in sight.

    This is why I'm leaning to No Deal.

    I think they country will stomach it for six months max, and then we'll rejoin, and the Leavers will have no credibility to oppose it.

    Every time they'll say no, rejoining will be a disaster, the country will remind them they said No Deal was Project Fear and/or No Deal will be fine.
    Why would the EU let us rejoin, there are other far less troublesome places (such as say Serbia) in the queue ahead of us...
    Why wouldn't they? No more opt-outs, including from Schengen and the Euro.
    Don't Sweden and Denmark still have their own currencies.
    Poland and Romania too.
    And the Czech Republic. And I'm probably forgetting some other places...
    Like Bulgaria?
    and Hungary
    That's a zloty of countries with their own currencies.

    (In order to make the pun work, I'm gambling most people don't know how to pronounce that.)
    That is a Rial-ly good pun.
    I was going for the Kroning glory.
    We’ve pounded down this well worn track before.

    Could we not find a subject with more currency ?
    Are you suggesting my puns are not up to the mark?

    Because if so, to be franc I must disagree.
    A sterling effort.

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,733
    edited July 2019
    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rpjs said:

    eek said:

    There is no good outcome from here. The country is going to be consumed by Brexit for many years to come, with no stable settlement in sight.

    This is why I'm leaning to No Deal.

    I think they country will stomach it for six months max, and then we'll rejoin, and the Leavers will have no credibility to oppose it.

    Every time they'll say no, rejoining will be a disaster, the country will remind them they said No Deal was Project Fear and/or No Deal will be fine.
    Why would the EU let us rejoin, there are other far less troublesome places (such as say Serbia) in the queue ahead of us...
    Why wouldn't they? No more opt-outs, including from Schengen and the Euro.
    Don't Sweden and Denmark still have their own currencies.
    Poland and Romania too.
    And the Czech Republic. And I'm probably forgetting some other places...
    Like Bulgaria?
    and Hungary
    That's a zloty of countries with their own currencies.

    (In order to make the pun work, I'm gambling most people don't know how to pronounce that.)
    That is a Rial-ly good pun.
    I was going for the Kroning glory.
    I knew we kwatcha out! Euro on top form!
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,869
    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    You know, I peeked into the 'other' PB.com a little while ago. Goodness, what a civilised place that was compared to here.

    SeanT is still there, ranting admittedly but still there. TSE is still got a raging..... well, he still likes Cameron. And the discussions are civil. All the talk is about how Osborne is the shoe in against May. He basically got to pick his opponent, and Theresa May, well she might've been okay as Home Secretary but as PM material she'll never beat the Boy Wonder.

    Announcement of that Leadership contest is during Conference season and its widely expected Osborne will win, win handily and then go on to beat Corbyn in 2020 for his majority. Sure, Farage and UKIP are still a threat but three years later after the 52% Remain win, the country is moving on.

    And Osborne's win next year will mean the end of Corbyn and hopefully the Labour party can get back on its feet again. There's talk Benn or Watson will take over, or even Ed make a return.

    Of course, the Lib Dems are still struggling on 10%, but Farron can't have it all.


    What a civilised place that place is!

    They could do a remake of the Man in the High Castle set in Brexitlandia 2030 where people can travel between that reality and a different world in which Remain won.
    There would be a lot of refugees desperately trying to escape from Remainica to Brexitlandia
    Partition of the country and mass population movements seem the only sane outcome.

    I think the refugees from Leverstan will outnumber those going the other way,
    I am sure you will be happy in your London ghetto.
    Leicester is part of Remania, and I think several of the other Leics counting areas will have flipped to Remain.
    Since you are such a fan of the EU I am sure you will agree that the partition should be based on EU regions. In which case your choice is a London ghetto or Scottish exile.
    I wouldn't mind living in Scotland. It's an amazing country and I've always found the Scots very friendly. Plus of course they are world beating growers of turnips.

    Wouldn't want to live in London. Absolute shithole.
    I moved out of London some years ago and today I was visited by a London family who said the same. The mystery is how long London property can continue to command such a premium when so many are concluding that declining quality of life means that it is time to leave.
  • ralphmalphralphmalph Posts: 2,201

    nichomar said:

    There is no good outcome from here. The country is going to be consumed by Brexit for many years to come, with no stable settlement in sight.

    This is why I'm leaning to No Deal.

    I think they country will stomach it for six months max, and then we'll rejoin, and the Leavers will have no credibility to oppose it.

    Every time they'll say no, rejoining will be a disaster, the country will remind them they said No Deal was Project Fear and/or No Deal will be fine.
    I have some sympathy for that view but I have three professional children trying to make their way in a difficult world and given the sectors they work in a no deal exit could scupper them for years to come, ok you can tell me where the sunlit uplands are but that view is disappearing of the agenda as principle overtakes sanity. I’m protected apart from a limited exposure living in Spain but I’m still waiting for someone to come up with a sane argument to leave which is based around economics, or one that gives those who voted for it what they sought to achieve.
    Go and read the OBR report from this morning and look at the GDP growth figures for the economy after we have got over the 12 month economic adjustment period.
    "Adjustment period" = lots and lots of £ that will be lost solely because of Brexit.
    If you could be bothered to read the report you would understand that in every year in cash terms UK Govt receipts increase.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rpjs said:

    eek said:

    There is no good outcome from here. The country is going to be consumed by Brexit for many years to come, with no stable settlement in sight.

    This is why I'm leaning to No Deal.

    I think they country will stomach it for six months max, and then we'll rejoin, and the Leavers will have no credibility to oppose it.

    Every time they'll say no, rejoining will be a disaster, the country will remind them they said No Deal was Project Fear and/or No Deal will be fine.
    Why would the EU let us rejoin, there are other far less troublesome places (such as say Serbia) in the queue ahead of us...
    Why wouldn't they? No more opt-outs, including from Schengen and the Euro.
    Don't Sweden and Denmark still have their own currencies.
    Poland and Romania too.
    And the Czech Republic. And I'm probably forgetting some other places...
    Like Bulgaria?
    and Hungary
    That's a zloty of countries with their own currencies.

    (In order to make the pun work, I'm gambling most people don't know how to pronounce that.)
    That is a Rial-ly good pun.
    I was going for the Kroning glory.
    I knew we kwatcha out! Euro on top form!
    It's yuan for the record books.
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    FF43 said:

    rpjs said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rpjs said:

    eek said:

    There is no good outcome from here. The country is going to be consumed by Brexit for many years to come, with no stable settlement in sight.

    This is why I'm leaning to No Deal.

    I think they country will stomach it for six months max, and then we'll rejoin, and the Leavers will have no credibility to oppose it.

    Every time they'll say no, rejoining will be a disaster, the country will remind them they said No Deal was Project Fear and/or No Deal will be fine.
    Why would the EU let us rejoin, there are other far less troublesome places (such as say Serbia) in the queue ahead of us...
    Why wouldn't they? No more opt-outs, including from Schengen and the Euro.
    Don't Sweden and Denmark still have their own currencies.
    Poland and Romania too.
    But I think they are "supposed" to adopt the Euro eventually, along with Hungary, Czechia and Romania.
    Yes, all new EU members, which the UK would be if let back in after crashing out and begging to return, are required to join Schengen and the Euro. The only countries with an actual opt-out from the Euro are the UK and Denmark. Now, in practice, a country that doesn't want to join the Euro can do so by failing to join the ERM, as that is a pre-requisite of joining the Euro but is not mandated to existing or new members. This is the mechanism Sweden uses to stay out.

    As to Schengen, Ireland also has an opt-out but that's only because of the CTA, They've already said many times that if the UK ever joined Schengen they would join it with us.
    Assuming everything else was OK, I doubt the EU would impose the Euro on an unwilling UK. Why would it?
    I think you're right in that while we would be notionally required to join, we'd be able to use the Swedish method to avoid it indefinitely. If the EU were to decide to enforce joining the Euro, they'd impose it on all the hold-outs, Only Denmark would be able to avoid it and they are in the ERM and pegged to the Euro anyway!
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,869
    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rpjs said:

    eek said:

    There is no good outcome from here. The country is going to be consumed by Brexit for many years to come, with no stable settlement in sight.

    This is why I'm leaning to No Deal.

    I think they country will stomach it for six months max, and then we'll rejoin, and the Leavers will have no credibility to oppose it.

    Every time they'll say no, rejoining will be a disaster, the country will remind them they said No Deal was Project Fear and/or No Deal will be fine.
    Why would the EU let us rejoin, there are other far less troublesome places (such as say Serbia) in the queue ahead of us...
    Why wouldn't they? No more opt-outs, including from Schengen and the Euro.
    Don't Sweden and Denmark still have their own currencies.
    Poland and Romania too.
    And the Czech Republic. And I'm probably forgetting some other places...
    Like Bulgaria?
    and Hungary
    That's a zloty of countries with their own currencies.

    (In order to make the pun work, I'm gambling most people don't know how to pronounce that.)
    That is a Rial-ly good pun.
    I was going for the Kroning glory.
    I knew we kwatcha out! Euro on top form!
    Stop behaving like a bunch of dongs and get real, people.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238
    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:



    I knew we kwatcha out! Euro on top form!

    It's yuan for the record books.
    I have a yen for puns of a different coinage.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    IanB2 said:

    ydoethur said:


    Wouldn't want to live in London. Absolute shithole.

    I moved out of London some years ago and today I was visited by a London family who said the same. The mystery is how long London property can continue to command such a premium when so many are concluding that declining quality of life means that it is time to leave.
    I was once asked what my favourite sight was in London.

    I replied it was a big sign saying 'Reading; South Wales; The West; M4.'

    As I get older my views change.

    Now it's a screen in Euston saying 'Rugeley Trent Valley: Platform 5, now boarding.'

    But it isn't really about normal people, is it? It's about millionaires from everywhere, including overseas, with more money than sense, buying up worthless properties that far too many of them seldom use.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:



    I knew we kwatcha out! Euro on top form!

    It's yuan for the record books.
    I have a yen for puns of a different coinage.
    We will ge trouble if we keep this up.

    Apart from anything else, there are not enough currencies, so we will just go rand and rand in circles.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,733
    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:



    I knew we kwatcha out! Euro on top form!

    It's yuan for the record books.
    I have a yen for puns of a different coinage.
    Obselete currencies get my groat...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:



    I knew we kwatcha out! Euro on top form!

    It's yuan for the record books.
    I have a yen for puns of a different coinage.
    Obselete currencies get my groat...
    Now you're just farthing around.
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    In the US system is it the conventional wisdom that a candidate aspiring to be President has to tack to the grassroots to win the Primaries before tacking back to seek the wider appeal necessary for success in a general election. And the earlier they are able to begin the pivot the better - a Primary contest going to the wire is bad for the ultimate success of the party.

    Ok in US Presidential campaign last year’s and that makes it easier to change policy positions over time, but it is in some ways a sign of how unserious (and personally insecure?) Johnson is as a candidate that despite having the contest in the bag (probably literally) weeks ago he has made no attempt to give himself at least some wiggle room on his most controversial statements, in fact has in many cases hardened his position, and has continued to prioritise seeking the adoration of Party members first and foremost, long after he needed them. Anyone with any sense would have been moderating his stances, introducing a path to a more realistic way forward, and giving him hope of keeping the sensible Tory politicians on board. If he felt ultimately he had to revert to a hardline stance then he could still do that, but it surely can’t sensibly be his default (and potentially only?) way forward.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:



    I knew we kwatcha out! Euro on top form!

    It's yuan for the record books.
    I have a yen for puns of a different coinage.
    Obselete currencies get my groat...
    How much does a Grecian urn
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    ydoethur said:


    Wouldn't want to live in London. Absolute shithole.

    I moved out of London some years ago and today I was visited by a London family who said the same. The mystery is how long London property can continue to command such a premium when so many are concluding that declining quality of life means that it is time to leave.
    I was once asked what my favourite sight was in London.

    I replied it was a big sign saying 'Reading; South Wales; The West; M4.'

    As I get older my views change.

    Now it's a screen in Euston saying 'Rugeley Trent Valley: Platform 5, now boarding.'

    But it isn't really about normal people, is it? It's about millionaires from everywhere, including overseas, with more money than sense, buying up worthless properties that far too many of them seldom use.
    Euston, Paddington, train station please
    Make the red lights turn green, endlessly
    My black cab rolls through the neon disease
    Endlessly, endlessly


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WD5I9DTO9m8
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    May I join in? I have a riel nakfa puns.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238
    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    ydoethur said:


    Wouldn't want to live in London. Absolute shithole.

    I moved out of London some years ago and today I was visited by a London family who said the same. The mystery is how long London property can continue to command such a premium when so many are concluding that declining quality of life means that it is time to leave.
    I was once asked what my favourite sight was in London.

    I replied it was a big sign saying 'Reading; South Wales; The West; M4.'

    As I get older my views change.

    Now it's a screen in Euston saying 'Rugeley Trent Valley: Platform 5, now boarding.'

    But it isn't really about normal people, is it? It's about millionaires from everywhere, including overseas, with more money than sense, buying up worthless properties that far too many of them seldom use.
    I can’t help but like London, despite its manifold faults.

    Wouldn’t want to live there, though.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238
    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:



    I knew we kwatcha out! Euro on top form!

    It's yuan for the record books.
    I have a yen for puns of a different coinage.
    We will ge trouble if we keep this up.

    Apart from anything else, there are not enough currencies, so we will just go rand and rand in circles.
    I have faith in your ability to mint fresh script.

  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    rpjs said:

    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    ydoethur said:


    Wouldn't want to live in London. Absolute shithole.

    I moved out of London some years ago and today I was visited by a London family who said the same. The mystery is how long London property can continue to command such a premium when so many are concluding that declining quality of life means that it is time to leave.
    I was once asked what my favourite sight was in London.

    I replied it was a big sign saying 'Reading; South Wales; The West; M4.'

    As I get older my views change.

    Now it's a screen in Euston saying 'Rugeley Trent Valley: Platform 5, now boarding.'

    But it isn't really about normal people, is it? It's about millionaires from everywhere, including overseas, with more money than sense, buying up worthless properties that far too many of them seldom use.
    Euston, Paddington, train station please
    Make the red lights turn green, endlessly
    My black cab rolls through the neon disease
    Endlessly, endlessly


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WD5I9DTO9m8
    Catatonia
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Ishmael_Z said:

    May I join in? I have a riel nakfa puns.

    It will do in leu of anything better.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,391
    edited July 2019
    nichomar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    It seems we have already taken back control of our kippers!

    I love the way this woman explains it. It is like watching a mother explain to a toddler wearing a cape that leaping from the roof is not a good idea.

    https://news.sky.com/video/eu-kipper-rules-set-by-uk-government-11765828

    Boris, the master negotiator is going to go down in Europe like a turd in a swimming pool.
    What I really resent about this is that Boris went to all the trouble to get a kipper, but couldn't be bothered to check what he was saying was accurate.

    It's so incredibly, deeply depressing.
    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    It seems we have already taken back control of our kippers!

    I love the way this woman explains it. It is like watching a mother explain to a toddler wearing a cape that leaping from the roof is not a good idea.

    https://news.sky.com/video/eu-kipper-rules-set-by-uk-government-11765828

    Boris, the master negotiator is going to go down in Europe like a turd in a swimming pool.
    What I really resent about this is that Boris went to all the trouble to get a kipper, but couldn't be bothered to check what he was saying was accurate.

    It's so incredibly, deeply depressing.
    While I’m no fan of Johnson I think he might have been set up because he claimed that he had been sent the kipper by someone making a point. Now an astute politician would have thought
    1 kipper someone is taking the piss
    2 Manx kipper their definitely taking the piss
    3 elf and safety well that’s clearly the U.K. so they are clearly taking the piss.

    The sad thing is kippers will join bananas conkers and other right wing media myths into the vocabulary of the faithful which I will waste hours trying to tell them it’s bollocks but they will never believe me.
    Johnson has made a career out of the alternate truth. The faithful just lap it up, so why should he stop now? The more outrageous the rhetoric the more endearing he becomes to his audience, and make no mistake it is a potentially huge audience.

    Johnson is still on chapter one of the Trump playbook, but it is working just fine.
  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,589
    That's the weirdest response. "Lets do something that the Speaker won't let us do because...". Not having procedural bruisers like Grieve is pretty crappy isn't it?
  • DruttDrutt Posts: 1,124

    There is no good outcome from here. The country is going to be consumed by Brexit for many years to come, with no stable settlement in sight.

    This is why I'm leaning to No Deal.

    I think they country will stomach it for six months max, and then we'll rejoin, and the Leavers will have no credibility to oppose it.

    Every time they'll say no, rejoining will be a disaster, the country will remind them they said No Deal was Project Fear and/or No Deal will be fine.
    I hope it wouldn't be too churlish of me to remind the 'rejoin' campaign that we were told :

    (1) joining the common market would be great for business (result 3% reduction in GDP and the 3 day week),
    (2) that joining the ERM would make the economy more stable (outturn GDP fell for five successive quarters),
    (3) that leaving the ERM would be a disaster (actually interest rates dropped overnight and the economy grew for 50+ straight quarters),
    (4) that not joining the euro would leave us falling behind, say, Italy (posterity records Italy growing at the same speed as lichen since),
    (5) that Greece taking the bailout would lead to a short shock and a swift return to rapid growth (the economy is over a third smaller and is growing again after just 6 years), and
    (6) that a vote to leave the EU would result in 800k job losses (1M more, in reality), crashing house prices (nope), recession (no), Scottish UDI (no), the end of Western Civilization (no) and threaten peace in Europe (also no).

    So you'll forgive the pinch of salt with which europhile forecasts, all wrong, all wrong in the same direction, and likely all wrong in the same direction for the same reasons, were taken.

    Forecasts vote remain, outcomes vote leave.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,780
    OnboardG1 said:

    That's the weirdest response. "Lets do something that the Speaker won't let us do because...". Not having procedural bruisers like Grieve is pretty crappy isn't it?
    Grieve isn't acting as some sort of policeman. He's trying to gainsay the referendum.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    nichomar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    It seems we have already taken back control of our kippers!

    I love the way this woman explains it. It is like watching a mother explain to a toddler wearing a cape that leaping from the roof is not a good idea.

    https://news.sky.com/video/eu-kipper-rules-set-by-uk-government-11765828

    What I really resent about this is that Boris went to all the trouble to get a kipper, but couldn't be bothered to check what he was saying was accurate.

    It's so incredibly, deeply depressing.
    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    It seems we have already taken back control of our kippers!

    I love the way this woman explains it. It is like watching a mother explain to a toddler wearing a cape that leaping from the roof is not a good idea.

    https://news.sky.com/video/eu-kipper-rules-set-by-uk-government-11765828

    Boris, the master negotiator is going to go down in Europe like a turd in a swimming pool.
    What I really resent about this is that Boris went to all the trouble to get a kipper, but couldn't be bothered to check what he was saying was accurate.

    It's so incredibly, deeply depressing.
    While I’m no fan of Johnson I think he might have been set up because he claimed that he had been sent the kipper by someone making a point. Now an astute politician would have thought
    1 kipper someone is taking the piss
    2 Manx kipper their definitely taking the piss
    3 elf and safety well that’s clearly the U.K. so they are clearly taking the piss.

    The sad thing is kippers will join bananas conkers and other right wing media myths into the vocabulary of the faithful which I will waste hours trying to tell them it’s bollocks but they will never believe me.
    Johnson has made a career out of the alternate truth. The faithful just lap it up, so why should he stop now? The more outrageous the rhetoric the more endearing he becomes to his audience, and make no mistake it is a potentially huge audience.

    Johnson is still on chapter one of the Trump playbook, but it is working just fine.
    Oh so true you can’t criticize him in so called middle class company they see no problem he’s going to bring the fun back into political life, if you dare suggest he is a dubious character with morals that would let an ally cat off and lies in every other sentence then you are a deplorable corbyn supporting Marxist
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:



    I knew we kwatcha out! Euro on top form!

    It's yuan for the record books.
    I have a yen for puns of a different coinage.
    We will ge trouble if we keep this up.

    Apart from anything else, there are not enough currencies, so we will just go rand and rand in circles.
    I have faith in your ability to mint fresh script.

    Your faith is duly noted.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,381

    There is no good outcome from here. The country is going to be consumed by Brexit for many years to come, with no stable settlement in sight.

    This is why I'm leaning to No Deal.

    I think they country will stomach it for six months max, and then we'll rejoin, and the Leavers will have no credibility to oppose it.

    Every time they'll say no, rejoining will be a disaster, the country will remind them they said No Deal was Project Fear and/or No Deal will be fine.
    In truth, we're all well to do to very rich people, who will be doing fine, but we'll be ranting at each other about how the country is going to the dogs because of Brexit/not implementing Brexit.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,780
    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:



    I knew we kwatcha out! Euro on top form!

    It's yuan for the record books.
    I have a yen for puns of a different coinage.
    We will ge trouble if we keep this up.

    Apart from anything else, there are not enough currencies, so we will just go rand and rand in circles.
    I have faith in your ability to mint fresh script.

    Your faith is duly noted.
    scrip.
  • RH1992RH1992 Posts: 788
    edited July 2019
    Scott_P said:
    It seems to me that the anti no deal Tories will do anything EXCEPT vote to revoke/VoNC Boris. That's an absolutely ludicrous plan.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    I think we are being invaded by philip Thompson and viceroy clones but I may be wrong.
  • DruttDrutt Posts: 1,124
    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:



    I knew we kwatcha out! Euro on top form!

    It's yuan for the record books.
    I have a yen for puns of a different coinage.
    Obselete currencies get my groat...

    Currency puns? We can't escudos opportunities when they do arise.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Omnium said:

    OnboardG1 said:

    That's the weirdest response. "Lets do something that the Speaker won't let us do because...". Not having procedural bruisers like Grieve is pretty crappy isn't it?
    Grieve isn't acting as some sort of policeman. He's trying to gainsay the referendum.
    He voted exactly the same way as Jacob Rees Mogg when the Commons was offered a chance to withdraw us from the EU.
  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,589
    nichomar said:

    I think we are being invaded by philip Thompson and viceroy clones but I may be wrong.

    Hey, hey, I'm closest to a Jezziah clone thanks very much.
  • ralphmalphralphmalph Posts: 2,201
    nichomar said:

    I think we are being invaded by philip Thompson and viceroy clones but I may be wrong.

    Is this the new "I can not justify my position?"
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,780
    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    OnboardG1 said:

    That's the weirdest response. "Lets do something that the Speaker won't let us do because...". Not having procedural bruisers like Grieve is pretty crappy isn't it?
    Grieve isn't acting as some sort of policeman. He's trying to gainsay the referendum.
    He voted exactly the same way as Jacob Rees Mogg when the Commons was offered a chance to withdraw us from the EU.
    That's good then is it?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,237
    Drutt said:

    (1) joining the common market would be great for business (result 3% reduction in GDP and the 3 day week)

    So, the hangover from the Barber Boom was the result of joining the EEC?

    The problem with all these (and this is true of Leavers and Remainers alike), is that everything is always a counterfactual.

    I think the UK is very likely to fall into recession in late 2019 or 2020. This is nothing to do with leaving the EU, but is a combination of:

    - our savings rate being at a fifty year low
    - the world economy slowing dramatically

    As it happens, I suspect that a disorderly Brexit - and especially the departure from the double taxation and withholding tax treaties - would make that process more painful.

    But stay or leave, the signs - whether PMIs, the bond market or household savings rates - are all pointing to us being at a cyclical peak right now.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,237

    nichomar said:

    There is no good outcome from here. The country is going to be consumed by Brexit for many years to come, with no stable settlement in sight.

    This is why I'm leaning to No Deal.

    I think they country will stomach it for six months max, and then we'll rejoin, and the Leavers will have no credibility to oppose it.

    Every time they'll say no, rejoining will be a disaster, the country will remind them they said No Deal was Project Fear and/or No Deal will be fine.
    I have some sympathy for that view but I have three professional children trying to make their way in a difficult world and given the sectors they work in a no deal exit could scupper them for years to come, ok you can tell me where the sunlit uplands are but that view is disappearing of the agenda as principle overtakes sanity. I’m protected apart from a limited exposure living in Spain but I’m still waiting for someone to come up with a sane argument to leave which is based around economics, or one that gives those who voted for it what they sought to achieve.
    Go and read the OBR report from this morning and look at the GDP growth figures for the economy after we have got over the 12 month economic adjustment period.
    "Adjustment period" = lots and lots of £ that will be lost solely because of Brexit.
    If you could be bothered to read the report you would understand that in every year in cash terms UK Govt receipts increase.
    Did UK governent receipts rise during the Global Financial Crisis? I would be very surprised if they did.

    (Nevertheless, the general point is a correct one. Thanks to inflation, receipts nearly always rise.)
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Omnium said:

    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    OnboardG1 said:

    That's the weirdest response. "Lets do something that the Speaker won't let us do because...". Not having procedural bruisers like Grieve is pretty crappy isn't it?
    Grieve isn't acting as some sort of policeman. He's trying to gainsay the referendum.
    He voted exactly the same way as Jacob Rees Mogg when the Commons was offered a chance to withdraw us from the EU.
    That's good then is it?
    I dunno, depends on whether you want to leave or not.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    OnboardG1 said:

    That's the weirdest response. "Lets do something that the Speaker won't let us do because...". Not having procedural bruisers like Grieve is pretty crappy isn't it?
    Grieve is a dishonest, self righteous fanatic, but he is generally effective at least.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    RH1992 said:

    Scott_P said:
    It seems to me that the anti no deal Tories will do anything EXCEPT vote to revoke/VoNC Boris. That's an absolutely ludicrous plan.
    Surely they would VoNC? I don't see how they cannot, whatever their claims, given what they are willing to do.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    Sean_F said:

    There is no good outcome from here. The country is going to be consumed by Brexit for many years to come, with no stable settlement in sight.

    This is why I'm leaning to No Deal.

    I think they country will stomach it for six months max, and then we'll rejoin, and the Leavers will have no credibility to oppose it.

    Every time they'll say no, rejoining will be a disaster, the country will remind them they said No Deal was Project Fear and/or No Deal will be fine.
    In truth, we're all well to do to very rich people
    We are? Why did not one tell me?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,237
    TGOHF said:
    "Sale" or "transportation" - do different rules apply if I am sending them to myself or if I buy from a website?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    edited July 2019
    Scott_P said:
    Boris Johnson could say he would abide by a parliamentary vote rejecting no deal. But the rebels fear he could then pick a fight with Emmanuel Macron to ensure the French president vetoes a UK request to extend Article 50

    How would involving the Queen prevent a French veto? This bit does seem likely

    It is difficult to imagine the Queen intervening in politics so directly, even if the scheme was attempted.

    So perhaps the eye-catching plan fits into the category of a device to put pressure on the next prime minister, rather than a mechanism to put the Queen on a Eurostar to Brussels.


    Not least because since we know the arch Brexiteers care about nothing but Brexit - not the UK, not the Tories, not anything - the Queen is yet another institution they would be happy to attack at even the thought she might be used to stop Brexit.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    kle4 said:

    Sean_F said:

    There is no good outcome from here. The country is going to be consumed by Brexit for many years to come, with no stable settlement in sight.

    This is why I'm leaning to No Deal.

    I think they country will stomach it for six months max, and then we'll rejoin, and the Leavers will have no credibility to oppose it.

    Every time they'll say no, rejoining will be a disaster, the country will remind them they said No Deal was Project Fear and/or No Deal will be fine.
    In truth, we're all well to do to very rich people
    We are? Why did not one tell me?
    I'm quite happy about this. I've just started looking for a nice mansion in the Cotswolds.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,237
    Re wealth: it's also worth remembering that almost everyone on this site is a member of the global 1%. You might feel poor relative to Sean Thomas, but you're a lot closer to him in wealth and income, than you are to 95% of the world's population.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,237
    rcs1000 said:

    Re wealth: it's also worth remembering that almost everyone on this site is a member of the global 1%. You might feel poor relative to Sean Thomas, but you're a lot closer to him in wealth and income, than you are to 95% of the world's population.

    https://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/050615/are-you-top-one-percent-world.asp

    $32,400 puts you in the top 1% globally by income.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,698
    rcs1000 said:

    Re wealth: it's also worth remembering that almost everyone on this site is a member of the global 1%. You might feel poor relative to Sean Thomas, but you're a lot closer to him in wealth and income, than you are to 95% of the world's population.

    I expect you are right there. What value of wealth and/or income does someone need today to put them in the global 1%, do you know?
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Panorama bollocks or fact?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,391

    There is no good outcome from here. The country is going to be consumed by Brexit for many years to come, with no stable settlement in sight.

    This is why I'm leaning to No Deal.

    I think they country will stomach it for six months max, and then we'll rejoin, and the Leavers will have no credibility to oppose it.

    Every time they'll say no, rejoining will be a disaster, the country will remind them they said No Deal was Project Fear and/or No Deal will be fine.
    It really is the only sensible option. Everything tanking at the same time is probably preferable to a death by a thousand cuts, as would be reality should Johnson exhume Mrs May's woeful WA as something new and shiny. The sooner the fall, the sooner we can pick ourselves up.

    If Johnson is personally held responsible for the debacle that will be a bonus.

    I do however doubt once we leave we will ever return.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,679
    rcs1000 said:

    Re wealth: it's also worth remembering that almost everyone on this site is a member of the global 1%. You might feel poor relative to Sean Thomas, but you're a lot closer to him in wealth and income, than you are to 95% of the world's population.

    Hey, I'm working class.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    There is no good outcome from here. The country is going to be consumed by Brexit for many years to come, with no stable settlement in sight.

    This is why I'm leaning to No Deal.

    I think they country will stomach it for six months max, and then we'll rejoin, and the Leavers will have no credibility to oppose it.

    Every time they'll say no, rejoining will be a disaster, the country will remind them they said No Deal was Project Fear and/or No Deal will be fine.
    I do however doubt once we leave we will ever return.
    As do many people hence why they wouldn't except even an actual BINO, even as others pretended other things were BINO and refused to vote to leave on that basis.

    rcs1000 said:

    Re wealth: it's also worth remembering that almost everyone on this site is a member of the global 1%. You might feel poor relative to Sean Thomas, but you're a lot closer to him in wealth and income, than you are to 95% of the world's population.

    Hey, I'm working class.
    You don't believe people's class can change?
This discussion has been closed.