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  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,679
    glw said:

    felix said:

    Many thanks to the ERG et al who look to have ensured by their rank stupidity that the odds on the UK remaining in the UK have increased dramatically today. Personally I'd have been content with T. May's deal in line with the Referendum but heigh ho they have pressed self-desrtuct so if we end up remaining it is all on them.

    Am sure the R in ERG stands for Remain.
    What do the E and G stand for?
    European and Group.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006
    TOPPING said:

    Viceroy said:



    I'd much rather be with the 30 than the loony direction the Tories are taking with Boris. Perhaps the ERG loons need to realise what they want will precipitate Corbyn,. It'll be the loons fault not the 30.

    Talk about viewing the world back to front.

    The lunatics are the 30 who are refusing to follow through on the result of a referendum THEY VOTED FOR. The 30 are voting against the manifesto they THEY STOOD ON. The 30 are voting against what THEIR OWN MEMBERSHIP want.

    THAT IS lunacy.
    OH NO! He's gone CAPITALS!
    It's the online equivalent of green ink and heavy underlining!
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,381

    Viceroy said:

    RobD said:

    eek said:

    GIN1138 said:

    October general election looks inevitable.

    Can't see it myself - how does Boris call one?
    And Boris Johnson, being a man of his word, has committed not to call one.
    Hasn't his big thing been about getting on with Brexit? If Parliament isn't playing ball, I think he'd be justified in going to the country.
    The Conservatives do not have a majority. Perhaps the Government might try constructing one instead of repeatedly yelling at it for having the temerity to disagree with it?
    Perhaps traitors like Grieve, Hammond, Gauke, Letwin and Gymiah should start acting like MPs of the government they were elected part of, instead of setting the stage for a Marxist government to come into power fairly soon?

    Remember this. If your lot topple HMG over No Deal, you own Corbyn.
    No! Members of all the main political parties own this mess. There are far too many nutters who do not understand working together.

    If Labour members did not elect Corbyn, the ERG could not have had the influence they have. If Tory members follow the ERG, they massively increase the chance of Corbyn. If LD and Greeen members cannot work together, they massively increase the chance of extremist and failed government.

    It is time for political members to grow up and realise the world operates on choices and compromises, not lists of demands and a search for purity.

    The biggest political mistake of recent time is not the Brexit vote but political parties moving to members selecting the leaders directly. They have failed the nation across all the parties.
    The party members are fairly representative of their respective parties' voters.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    So Hunt now is for suspending parliament .

    The desperation to get a cabinet job is vomit inducing .
  • DadgeDadge Posts: 2,052
    Animal_pb said:

    Dadge said:

    Viceroy said:

    TOPPING said:



    Gah!!!!

    It was all so simple before....

    But to answer, of course it works both ways. You have cancelled out @Viceroy* bless his cotton (orange) socks.

    So he can rant and rave all he wants (and indeed frequently does so) and you can sit there calmly and invalidate his every action and effort.

    *Of course I realise that @Viceroy is an amusing made up troll but for the sake of argument the point still stands, there will be others.

    One snag in that however.

    For every Remainer who has joined the Tory Party, 10 Kippers have joined.

    That is why Boris is going to win by a landslide, the government is moving towards backing No Deal and deselections are ramping up. We have our hands clasped around the throat of the Tory Party.
    Until we have a GE, the machinations of the Tory Party are a sideshow. No Deal won't happen unless the people vote for it.
    We've been through this in the past - surely No Deal is the default? It occurs if no other option is positively selected to over-ride it?
    That's what you said the last two times.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406

    felix said:

    Many thanks to the ERG et al who look to have ensured by their rank stupidity that the odds on the UK remaining in the UK have increased dramatically today. Personally I'd have been content with T. May's deal in line with the Referendum but heigh ho they have pressed self-desrtuct so if we end up remaining it is all on them.

    Am sure the R in ERG stands for Remain.
    Surely it's rant(ing) - the European Ranting Group explains entirely why they refused to vote to actually leave...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156

    HYUFD you do NOT represent the whole of your party. You are, in my view, an extremist and at the moment you make the most noise.

    But 1/3rd of Tory voters are Remainers and you would do very, very, well not to forget this.

    YouGov today has 30% of 2017 Tories voting Brexit Party and only 7% voting LD.

    34% of 2016 Leave voters are Tory voters, 18% of 2016 Remain voters are Tory voters.


    https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/sjg6udq97x/TheTimes_190717_VI_Trackers_w.pdf
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406
    HYUFD said:

    Viceroy said:

    RobD said:

    eek said:

    GIN1138 said:

    October general election looks inevitable.

    Can't see it myself - how does Boris call one?
    And Boris Johnson, being a man of his word, has committed not to call one.
    Hasn't his big thing been about getting on with Brexit? If Parliament isn't playing ball, I think he'd be justified in going to the country.
    The Conservatives do not have a majority. Perhaps the Government might try constructing one instead of repeatedly yelling at it for having the temerity to disagree with it?
    Perhaps traitors like Grieve, Hammond, Gauke, Letwin and Gymiah should start acting like MPs of the government they were elected part of, instead of setting the stage for a Marxist government to come into power fairly soon?

    Remember this. If your lot topple HMG over No Deal, you own Corbyn.
    No! Members of all the main political parties own this mess. There are far too many nutters who do not understand working together.

    If Labour members did not elect Corbyn, the ERG could not have had the influence they have. If Tory members follow the ERG, they massively increase the chance of Corbyn. If LD and Greeen members cannot work together, they massively increase the chance of extremist and failed government.

    It is time for political members to grow up and realise the world operates on choices and compromises, not lists of demands and a search for purity.

    The biggest political mistake of recent time is not the Brexit vote but political parties moving to members selecting the leaders directly. They have failed the nation across all the parties.
    Tory members voted for Cameron in 2005, Labour members voted for Blair in 1994 and David Miliband in 2010.

    Members will vote for centrists if they feel they are right for the time
    David Miliband?????
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    eek said:

    Endillion said:

    I'm sure it's all very lovely that Parliament thinks it's slowly blocking off any possibility of No Deal, but come September/October, they're still going to have to either:
    - try and force the PM (presumably Johnson) to ask for an extension that the EU might then not grant; or
    - try and force him to revoke and hope he listens; or
    - No Confidence him, hope someone can put a majority together in two weeks, or else risk Parliament being dissolved in which case we crash out while the campaign is ongoing.

    I can't see a way that any of those three is viable. The first is most likely, but what if either Johnson starts mucking around by making an extension request the EU can't agree to, or if the EU refuse to grant one for their own reasons?

    I suspect if we end up with a VoNC the decision will already have been made as to how to get someone with confidence back in (which means the DUP will be on side with the replacement)..
    The options are A N Other Tory, and Jeremy Corbyn. One of the few things I am certain of in this world, is that the DUP will not back the latter. The former... I don't really see how a new Conservative PM changes the fundamentals of Parliamentary arithmetic.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,217
    Warren sub 5.0 on Betfair.
  • ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,843
    nico67 said:

    So Hunt now is for suspending parliament .

    The desperation to get a cabinet job is vomit inducing .

    One way Boris could slightly endear me to him is by immediately sacking Hunt, Rudd, and Hancock. Would be good to see their grovelling go unrewarded.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Viceroy said:

    RobD said:

    eek said:

    GIN1138 said:

    October general election looks inevitable.

    Can't see it myself - how does Boris call one?
    And Boris Johnson, being a man of his word, has committed not to call one.
    Hasn't his big thing been about getting on with Brexit? If Parliament isn't playing ball, I think he'd be justified in going to the country.
    The Conservatives do not have a majority. Perhaps the Government might try constructing one instead of repeatedly yelling at it for having the temerity to disagree with it?
    Perhaps traitors like Grieve, Hammond, Gauke, Letwin and Gymiah should start acting like MPs of the government they were elected part of, instead of setting the stage for a Marxist government to come into power fairly soon?

    Remember this. If your lot topple HMG over No Deal, you own Corbyn.
    No! Members of all the main political parties own this mess. There are far too many nutters who do not understand working together.

    If Labour members did not elect Corbyn, the ERG could not have had the influence they have. If Tory members follow the ERG, they massively increase the chance of Corbyn. If LD and Greeen members cannot work together, they massively increase the chance of extremist and failed government.

    It is time for political members to grow up and realise the world operates on choices and compromises, not lists of demands and a search for purity.

    The biggest political mistake of recent time is not the Brexit vote but political parties moving to members selecting the leaders directly. They have failed the nation across all the parties.
    Tory members voted for Cameron in 2005, Labour members voted for Blair in 1994 and David Miliband in 2010.

    Members will vote for centrists if they feel they are right for the time
    David Miliband?????
    It's been quite a trying afternoon.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006
    glw said:

    The biggest political mistake of recent time is not the Brexit vote but political parties moving to members selecting the leaders directly. They have failed the nation across all the parties.

    Indeed with hindsight this democratisation of party politics has been a total disaster, as our two main parties have fallen under the control of extremists who by and large are also complete fucking idiots.

    and just to make matters worse we have a ludicrous electoral system which pretty much guarantees one or other of them always wins
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,847
    Sean_F said:

    Viceroy said:

    RobD said:

    eek said:

    GIN1138 said:

    October general election looks inevitable.

    Can't see it myself - how does Boris call one?
    And Boris Johnson, being a man of his word, has committed not to call one.
    Hasn't his big thing been about getting on with Brexit? If Parliament isn't playing ball, I think he'd be justified in going to the country.
    The Conservatives do not have a majority. Perhaps the Government might try constructing one instead of repeatedly yelling at it for having the temerity to disagree with it?
    Perhaps traitors like Grieve, Hammond, Gauke, Letwin and Gymiah should start acting like MPs of the government they were elected part of, instead of setting the stage for a Marxist government to come into power fairly soon?

    Remember this. If your lot topple HMG over No Deal, you own Corbyn.
    No! Members of all the main political parties own this mess. There are far too many nutters who do not understand working together.

    If Labour members did not elect Corbyn, the ERG could not have had the influence they have. If Tory members follow the ERG, they massively increase the chance of Corbyn. If LD and Greeen members cannot work together, they massively increase the chance of extremist and failed government.

    It is time for political members to grow up and realise the world operates on choices and compromises, not lists of demands and a search for purity.

    The biggest political mistake of recent time is not the Brexit vote but political parties moving to members selecting the leaders directly. They have failed the nation across all the parties.
    The party members are fairly representative of their respective parties' voters.
    Fairly representative is pushing it. Given each party has traditionally been a coalition that respects a wide range of views surely you can at least accept that this is no longer the case?

    I find it very sad that the two main parties are led by nutters, marxist anti semites or unicorn chasing bumbling xenophobes. What a choice!
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    edited July 2019
    Viceroy said:

    glw said:



    Indeed with hindsight this democratisation of party politics has been a total disaster, as our two main parties have fallen under the control of extremists who by and large are also complete fucking idiots.

    The extremists are the Blairs, Camerons and Osbornes who hijacked and have controlled the main parties since the 1990s. Invading other countries on lies, handing over our sovereignty no matter how many times we say No, running our towns into the ground whilst north London is handed everything on a plate. Sending billions off to African dictators in Foreign Aid whilst schools cannot even afford textbooks, and pensioners are forced to sell their homes to fund their own cares. Allowing uncontrolled mass migration whilst our young aren't trained because "we cant afford it". Granting Jihadists human rights, whilst ignoring the right of the British people to live in safety and security.

    THEY are the extremists and people on right and left have had enough. The liberal elite represent nobody but themselves in their north London bubble.
    If "extremist" is defined as those who "hijacked and controlled the main parties" then by your own description you are an extremist.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    This, this is Corbyn's Labour. The kinder, gentler Labour that is going to run the country for the good of everyone.

    https://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/1151857560120635394

    Give me a f***ing break.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,744
    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Viceroy said:

    RobD said:

    eek said:

    GIN1138 said:

    October general election looks inevitable.

    Can't see it myself - how does Boris call one?
    And Boris Johnson, being a man of his word, has committed not to call one.
    Hasn't his big thing been about getting on with Brexit? If Parliament isn't playing ball, I think he'd be justified in going to the country.
    The Conservatives do not have a majority. Perhaps the Government might try constructing one instead of repeatedly yelling at it for having the temerity to disagree with it?
    Perhaps traitors like Grieve, Hammond, Gauke, Letwin and Gymiah should start acting like MPs of the government they were elected part of, instead of setting the stage for a Marxist government to come into power fairly soon?

    Remember this. If your lot topple HMG over No Deal, you own Corbyn.
    No! Members of all the main political parties own this mess. There are far too many nutters who do not understand working together.

    If Labour members did not elect Corbyn, the ERG could not have had the influence they have. If Tory members follow the ERG, they massively increase the chance of Corbyn. If LD and Greeen members cannot work together, they massively increase the chance of extremist and failed government.

    It is time for political members to grow up and realise the world operates on choices and compromises, not lists of demands and a search for purity.

    The biggest political mistake of recent time is not the Brexit vote but political parties moving to members selecting the leaders directly. They have failed the nation across all the parties.
    Tory members voted for Cameron in 2005, Labour members voted for Blair in 1994 and David Miliband in 2010.

    Members will vote for centrists if they feel they are right for the time
    David Miliband?????
    Yes. Labour members voted 54-46 for David Miliband. It was the affiliates who swung it for Ed.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,217
    Pulpstar said:

    Warren sub 5.0 on Betfair.

    Aaand the book totals to 102% now. Mind you with Clinton at 36/48 !
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502

    nico67 said:

    So Hunt now is for suspending parliament .

    The desperation to get a cabinet job is vomit inducing .

    One way Boris could slightly endear me to him is by immediately sacking Hunt, Rudd, and Hancock. Would be good to see their grovelling go unrewarded.
    Totally agree .
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    TOPPING said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Viceroy said:

    RobD said:

    eek said:

    GIN1138 said:

    October general election looks inevitable.

    Can't see it myself - how does Boris call one?
    And Boris Johnson, being a man of his word, has committed not to call one.
    Hasn't his big thing been about getting on with Brexit? If Parliament isn't playing ball, I think he'd be justified in going to the country.
    The Conservatives do not have a majority. Perhaps the Government might try constructing one instead of repeatedly yelling at it for having the temerity to disagree with it?
    Perhaps traitors like Grieve, Hammond, Gauke, Letwin and Gymiah should start acting like MPs of the government they were elected part of, instead of setting the stage for a Marxist government to come into power fairly soon?

    Remember this. If your lot topple HMG over No Deal, you own Corbyn.
    No! Members of all the main political parties own this mess. There are far too many nutters who do not understand working together.

    If Labour members did not elect Corbyn, the ERG could not have had the influence they have. If Tory members follow the ERG, they massively increase the chance of Corbyn. If LD and Greeen members cannot work together, they massively increase the chance of extremist and failed government.

    It is time for political members to grow up and realise the world operates on choices and compromises, not lists of demands and a search for purity.

    The biggest political mistake of recent time is not the Brexit vote but political parties moving to members selecting the leaders directly. They have failed the nation across all the parties.
    Tory members voted for Cameron in 2005, Labour members voted for Blair in 1994 and David Miliband in 2010.

    Members will vote for centrists if they feel they are right for the time
    David Miliband?????
    It's been quite a trying afternoon.
    Isn't he right?
  • DadgeDadge Posts: 2,052
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD you do NOT represent the whole of your party. You are, in my view, an extremist and at the moment you make the most noise.

    But 1/3rd of Tory voters are Remainers and you would do very, very, well not to forget this.

    YouGov today has 30% of 2017 Tories voting Brexit Party and only 7% voting LD.

    34% of 2016 Leave voters are Tory voters, 18% of 2016 Remain voters are Tory voters.


    https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/sjg6udq97x/TheTimes_190717_VI_Trackers_w.pdf
    The Tories had already become a Brexit party in 2017. You really need to compare with 2015 Tory voters.
  • rural_voterrural_voter Posts: 2,038
    Viceroy said:

    glw said:



    Indeed with hindsight this democratisation of party politics has been a total disaster, as our two main parties have fallen under the control of extremists who by and large are also complete fucking idiots.

    The extremists are the Blairs, Camerons and Osbornes who hijacked and have controlled the main parties since the 1990s. Invading other countries on lies, handing over our sovereignty no matter how many times we say No, running our towns into the ground whilst north London is handed everything on a plate. Sending billions off to African dictators in Foreign Aid whilst schools cannot even afford textbooks, and pensioners are forced to sell their homes to fund their own cares. Allowing uncontrolled mass migration whilst our young aren't trained because "we cant afford it". Granting Jihadists human rights, whilst ignoring the right of the British people to live in safety and security.

    THEY are the extremists and people on right and left have had enough. The liberal elite represent nobody but themselves in their north London bubble.
    You'd call me part of this elite and I live in the back of beyond aka where England meets Wales. We're everywhere. You can't escape us. Most people educated beyond the 6th. form end up with these internationalist, liberal, outward-looking attitudes.

    By the way, I'm a bit puzzled why you changed your avatar and are no longer Enoch Powell's great-nephew so to speak. Is it because you discovered that he voted to ban capital punishment and legalise male homosexuality? He was quite a liberal on some things ...

    There's quite a simple solution to your complaints about the poor state of public services like libraries police, etc and it's called a return to progressive taxation. Western countries had it from the 1930s to the 1980s. Then two people called Thatcher and Reagan took over.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    glw said:

    felix said:

    Many thanks to the ERG et al who look to have ensured by their rank stupidity that the odds on the UK remaining in the UK have increased dramatically today. Personally I'd have been content with T. May's deal in line with the Referendum but heigh ho they have pressed self-desrtuct so if we end up remaining it is all on them.

    Am sure the R in ERG stands for Remain.
    What do the E and G stand for?
    Europe Remains Great!
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    edited July 2019
    Viceroy said:

    glw said:



    Indeed with hindsight this democratisation of party politics has been a total disaster, as our two main parties have fallen under the control of extremists who by and large are also complete fucking idiots.

    The extremists are the Blairs, Camerons and Osbornes who hijacked and have controlled the main parties since the 1990s. Invading other countries on lies, handing over our sovereignty no matter how many times we say No, running our towns into the ground whilst north London is handed everything on a plate. Sending billions off to African dictators in Foreign Aid whilst schools cannot even afford textbooks, and pensioners are forced to sell their homes to fund their own cares. Allowing uncontrolled mass migration whilst our young aren't trained because "we cant afford it". Granting Jihadists human rights, whilst ignoring the right of the British people to live in safety and security.

    THEY are the extremists and people on right and left have had enough. The liberal elite represent nobody but themselves in their north London bubble.
    I suppose you are useful in so much as you help to make HYUFD seem marginally less mad.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,617
    eek said:

    TGOHF said:

    philiph said:

    Tory Party is unmanageable right now. That makes an election more likely as time passes.

    This. All these priggish troublemakers fade into insignificance if you have a large majority.

    Still looks like the remain "squad" will get the blame if we don't leave on 31st October.

    An election in that scenario should be decisive.
    I suspect it won't be. Remain will pick up a few seats, Labour will win more than expected because a referendum is neither here nor there and the Tories will be roughly the same (say -10 to 20 or so seats).

    And Parliament would be even more screwed...
    100% wrong. It will be the "who governs Britain - the voters or the MPs?" election.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    nico67 said:

    So Hunt now is for suspending parliament .

    The desperation to get a cabinet job is vomit inducing .

    One way Boris could slightly endear me to him is by immediately sacking Hunt, Rudd, and Hancock. Would be good to see their grovelling go unrewarded.
    I hope during these hustings that he has been having a quiet word with local party head honchos and firing up the deselection train.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    edited July 2019
    Dadge said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD you do NOT represent the whole of your party. You are, in my view, an extremist and at the moment you make the most noise.

    But 1/3rd of Tory voters are Remainers and you would do very, very, well not to forget this.

    YouGov today has 30% of 2017 Tories voting Brexit Party and only 7% voting LD.

    34% of 2016 Leave voters are Tory voters, 18% of 2016 Remain voters are Tory voters.


    https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/sjg6udq97x/TheTimes_190717_VI_Trackers_w.pdf
    The Tories had already become a Brexit party in 2017. You really need to compare with 2015 Tory voters.
    Even 2015 Tory voters voted 59% Leave 41% Remain

    https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/how-britain-voted-2016-eu-referendum
  • PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138

    HYUFD you do NOT represent the whole of your party. You are, in my view, an extremist and at the moment you make the most noise.
    But 1/3rd of Tory voters are Remainers and you would do very, very, well not to forget this.

    Indeed - vast majority of my friends (in SE) are effectively Tory remainers; and none of them voted for the Tories in the recent Euro elections or will do so at the next GE if no deal has either happened or is being pledged. They also all seem to hate Boris!
    I suspect that the 30% of Conservatives who are Remainers will very largely be the Conservatives who were happy enough with the Coalition Government with the Lib Dems - in contrast to the spoilt "problem children" who kept on rebelling against poor Mr Cameron and the government, and who are now in the fanatical HY-Viceroy camp.

    I suspect it would not take very much for all of them to move over now into the Lib Dem column. The Conservative party as it now is, is not the Conservative Party they knew and loved.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,217
    Dadge said:
    What does err "slipped" mean ?>
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    RobD said:

    TOPPING said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Viceroy said:

    RobD said:

    eek said:

    GIN1138 said:

    October general election looks inevitable.

    Can't see it myself - how does Boris call one?
    And Boris Johnson, being a man of his word, has committed not to call one.
    Hasn't his big thing been about getting on with Brexit? If Parliament isn't playing ball, I think he'd be justified in going to the country.
    The Conservatives do not have a majority. Perhaps the Government might try constructing one instead of repeatedly yelling at it for having the temerity to disagree with it?
    Perhaps traitors like Grieve, Hammond, Gauke, Letwin and Gymiah should start acting like MPs of the government they were elected part of, instead of setting the stage for a Marxist government to come into power fairly soon?

    Remember this. If your lot topple HMG over No Deal, you own Corbyn.
    No! Members of all the main political parties own this mess. There are far too many nutters who do not understand working together.

    If Labour members did not elect Corbyn, the ERG could not have had the influence they have. If Tory members follow the ERG, they massively increase the chance of Corbyn. If LD and Greeen members cannot work together, they massively increase the chance of extremist and failed government.

    It is time for political members to grow up and realise the world operates on choices and compromises, not lists of demands and a search for purity.

    The biggest political mistake of recent time is not the Brexit vote but political parties moving to members selecting the leaders directly. They have failed the nation across all the parties.
    Tory members voted for Cameron in 2005, Labour members voted for Blair in 1994 and David Miliband in 2010.

    Members will vote for centrists if they feel they are right for the time
    David Miliband?????
    It's been quite a trying afternoon.
    Isn't he right?
    Ah yes I see - members. Yes he is right. I don't follow the machinations of other parties as much as he does which now makes a lot more sense as he probably realised back then that he wasn't a true Conservative.
  • Harris_TweedHarris_Tweed Posts: 1,337
    TGOHF said:

    eek said:

    Endillion said:

    I'm sure it's all very lovely that Parliament thinks it's slowly blocking off any possibility of No Deal, but come September/October, they're still going to have to either:
    - try and force the PM (presumably Johnson) to ask for an extension that the EU might then not grant; or
    - try and force him to revoke and hope he listens; or
    - No Confidence him, hope someone can put a majority together in two weeks, or else risk Parliament being dissolved in which case we crash out while the campaign is ongoing.

    I can't see a way that any of those three is viable. The first is most likely, but what if either Johnson starts mucking around by making an extension request the EU can't agree to, or if the EU refuse to grant one for their own reasons?

    I suspect if we end up with a VoNC the decision will already have been made as to how to get someone with confidence back in (which means the DUP will be on side with the replacement)..
    The Venn diagram of suitable candidates looks a bit er - non intersecting.
    Along with the Venn diagram of suitable compromise Brexit policies, I fear.

    I did wonder if there was a sweetspot around "Norway for now" or similar - enough homeopathic Brexit to save the blushes of northern Labour MPs while everything else continues. But everyone seems to have set fire to the WA and is rushing for the extremes.

    So even if you could find a candidate 325(ish) MPs could support, what would their platform be?
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406
    edited July 2019

    eek said:

    TGOHF said:

    philiph said:

    Tory Party is unmanageable right now. That makes an election more likely as time passes.

    This. All these priggish troublemakers fade into insignificance if you have a large majority.

    Still looks like the remain "squad" will get the blame if we don't leave on 31st October.

    An election in that scenario should be decisive.
    I suspect it won't be. Remain will pick up a few seats, Labour will win more than expected because a referendum is neither here nor there and the Tories will be roughly the same (say -10 to 20 or so seats).

    And Parliament would be even more screwed...
    100% wrong. It will be the "who governs Britain - the voters or the MPs?" election.
    And on the voters side will be the dodgiest candidates the right can find (heck our last Tory candidate had such a problem with "belts keeping his trousers up" that the police had been involved )... As for Brexit candidates....
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,381

    Viceroy said:

    glw said:



    Indeed with hindsight this democratisation of party politics has been a total disaster, as our two main parties have fallen under the control of extremists who by and large are also complete fucking idiots.

    The extremists are the Blairs, Camerons and Osbornes who hijacked and have controlled the main parties since the 1990s. Invading other countries on lies, handing over our sovereignty no matter how many times we say No, running our towns into the ground whilst north London is handed everything on a plate. Sending billions off to African dictators in Foreign Aid whilst schools cannot even afford textbooks, and pensioners are forced to sell their homes to fund their own cares. Allowing uncontrolled mass migration whilst our young aren't trained because "we cant afford it". Granting Jihadists human rights, whilst ignoring the right of the British people to live in safety and security.

    THEY are the extremists and people on right and left have had enough. The liberal elite represent nobody but themselves in their north London bubble.
    You'd call me part of this elite and I live in the back of beyond aka where England meets Wales. We're everywhere. You can't escape us. Most people educated beyond the 6th. form end up with these internationalist, liberal, outward-looking attitudes.

    By the way, I'm a bit puzzled why you changed your avatar and are no longer Enoch Powell's great-nephew so to speak. Is it because you discovered that he voted to ban capital punishment and legalise male homosexuality? He was quite a liberal on some things ...

    There's quite a simple solution to your complaints about the poor state of public services like libraries police, etc and it's called a return to progressive taxation. Western countries had it from the 1930s to the 1980s. Then two people called Thatcher and Reagan took over.
    The moderate, rational, centrist politicians gave us the Great Financial Crash and the Iraq war, so it's perhaps unsurprising that their stock is currently so low.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    Scott_P said:
    Oh dear! Not a great look for someone running to be PM is it?
  • PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138
    TGOHF said:

    HYUFD said:

    Viceroy said:

    RobD said:

    eek said:

    GIN1138 said:

    October general election looks inevitable.

    Can't see it myself - how does Boris call one?
    And Boris Johnson, being a man of his word, has committed not to call one.
    Hasn't his big thing been about getting on with Brexit? If Parliament isn't playing ball, I think he'd be justified in going to the country.
    The Conservatives do not have a majority. Perhaps the Government might try constructing one instead of repeatedly yelling at it for having the temerity to disagree with it?
    Perhaps traitors like Grieve, Hammond, Gauke, Letwin and Gymiah should start acting like MPs of the government they were elected part of, instead of setting the stage for a Marxist government to come into power fairly soon?

    Remember this. If your lot topple HMG over No Deal, you own Corbyn.
    I'd much rather be with the 30 than the loony direction the Tories are taking with Boris. Perhaps the ERG loons need to realise what they want will precipitate Corbyn,. It'll be the loons fault not the 30.
    On today's Yougov poll Corbyn is more likely to be beaten by the LDs than he is to beat the Tories
    That screws up the Tory "Stop Corbyn" election campaign.
    I'm not sure that 6 weeks of Ed Davey on the tv would help the LDs.
    I think that 6 weeks of Ed Davey on the TV would help the Lib Dems tremendously. Both he and Jo Swinson would be excellent for the Lib Dems and for the country as a whole.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,869
    Pulpstar said:

    Dadge said:
    What does err "slipped" mean ?>
    Paired
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679
    TGOHF said:

    eek said:

    TGOHF said:

    philiph said:

    Tory Party is unmanageable right now. That makes an election more likely as time passes.

    This. All these priggish troublemakers fade into insignificance if you have a large majority.

    Still looks like the remain "squad" will get the blame if we don't leave on 31st October.

    An election in that scenario should be decisive.
    I suspect it won't be. Remain will pick up a few seats, Labour will win more than expected because a referendum is neither here nor there and the Tories will be roughly the same (say -10 to 20 or so seats).

    And Parliament would be even more screwed...
    Well that entirely depends on the positioning, the reason for the calling and the campaign.

    A competent Brexiteer could sweep the board with the right approach.

    Good luck finding a competent Brexiter.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238
    Cyclefree said:

    Viceroy said:

    TOPPING said:



    Gah!!!!

    It was all so simple before....

    But to answer, of course it works both ways. You have cancelled out @Viceroy* bless his cotton (orange) socks.

    So he can rant and rave all he wants (and indeed frequently does so) and you can sit there calmly and invalidate his every action and effort.

    *Of course I realise that @Viceroy is an amusing made up troll but for the sake of argument the point still stands, there will be others.

    One snag in that however.

    For every Remainer who has joined the Tory Party, 10 Kippers have joined.

    That is why Boris is going to win by a landslide, the government is moving towards backing No Deal and deselections are ramping up. We have our hands clasped around the throat of the Tory Party.
    So you’ve admitted you’re not a Conservative. Do you even live in Britain?
    Surely you're not suggesting he's a denizen of the Internet Research Agency ?

    (A suggestion which is not wholly implausible on the available evidence of his posts.)
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238
    IanB2 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Dadge said:
    What does err "slipped" mean ?>
    Paired
    And I thought it was the latest Parliamentary slang for unmoored from reality...
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,478

    eek said:

    TGOHF said:

    philiph said:

    Tory Party is unmanageable right now. That makes an election more likely as time passes.

    This. All these priggish troublemakers fade into insignificance if you have a large majority.

    Still looks like the remain "squad" will get the blame if we don't leave on 31st October.

    An election in that scenario should be decisive.
    I suspect it won't be. Remain will pick up a few seats, Labour will win more than expected because a referendum is neither here nor there and the Tories will be roughly the same (say -10 to 20 or so seats).

    And Parliament would be even more screwed...
    100% wrong. It will be the "who governs Britain - the voters or the MPs?" election.
    I've been quiet for a while...... all sorts of family things happening, some good, some bad. I thought we were a representative democracy; we elected Members of Parliament to use their best, informed, judgement in the management of the country, not delegates who took soundings in their constituencies and then voted the way they wre told.
    Secondly, we, the people, (to use a phrase), don't like being asked to go to the the ballot box too often. Most elections since WWII, where the PM has gone to the country before they needed to, have lost. I'm thinking 1951, 1974 and 2017. 1966 was an exception, of course, but surely one that proves the rule. Wilson had been asked to prove himself and his party, and had.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,237
    There'll be no proroguing of anything - especially not parliament.

    Parliament did not get to where it is today by letting itself get prorogued.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,751
    eek said:
    Until the last line I thought that was going to be one of Boris Johnson's girlfriends!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238
    Meanwhile...

    https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/07/jeffrey-epstein-case-grows-more-grotesque
    Likely within days, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit will release almost 2,000 pages of documents that could reveal sexual abuse by “numerous prominent American politicians, powerful business executives, foreign presidents, a well-known prime minister, and other world leaders,” according to the three-judge panel's ruling. The documents were filed during a civil defamation lawsuit brought by Epstein accuser Virginia Roberts Giuffre, a former Mar-a-Lago locker-room attendant, against Epstein’s former girlfriend and alleged madam, Ghislaine Maxwell. “Nobody who was around Epstein a lot is going to have an easy time now. It’s all going to come out,” said Giuffre’s lawyer David Boies. Another person involved with litigation against Epstein told me: “It’s going to be staggering, the amount of names. It’s going to be contagion numbers.”…
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,133
    Cyclefree said:

    Viceroy said:

    TOPPING said:



    Gah!!!!

    It was all so simple before....

    But to answer, of course it works both ways. You have cancelled out @Viceroy* bless his cotton (orange) socks.

    So he can rant and rave all he wants (and indeed frequently does so) and you can sit there calmly and invalidate his every action and effort.

    *Of course I realise that @Viceroy is an amusing made up troll but for the sake of argument the point still stands, there will be others.

    One snag in that however.

    For every Remainer who has joined the Tory Party, 10 Kippers have joined.

    That is why Boris is going to win by a landslide, the government is moving towards backing No Deal and deselections are ramping up. We have our hands clasped around the throat of the Tory Party.
    So you’ve admitted you’re not a Conservative. Do you even live in Britain?
    He most certainly is not a conservative. He belongs in TBP along with Farage and the rest.

    Also early signs that he is completely losing it including resorting to capitals.

    Sadly HYUFD seems to have lost his sense of balance too joining a deranged cult that will only end in tears

    The mps who voted against or abstained today were correct in their actions.

    However, I do have a problem with the likes of Grieve and Bebb who, while using no deal as an excuse to stop the proroguing of the HOC, have an agenda is to stop any form of Brexit
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Warren sub 5.0 on Betfair.

    Aaand the book totals to 102% now. Mind you with Clinton at 36/48 !
    When will we see some drop-outs, so we can see the battlefield properly?
  • PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138

    eek said:

    TGOHF said:

    philiph said:

    Tory Party is unmanageable right now. That makes an election more likely as time passes.

    This. All these priggish troublemakers fade into insignificance if you have a large majority.
    Still looks like the remain "squad" will get the blame if we don't leave on 31st October.
    An election in that scenario should be decisive.
    I suspect it won't be. Remain will pick up a few seats, Labour will win more than expected because a referendum is neither here nor there and the Tories will be roughly the same (say -10 to 20 or so seats).
    And Parliament would be even more screwed...
    100% wrong. It will be the "who governs Britain - the voters or the MPs?" election.
    Anybody except the Tories! As in 1974.....
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,133
    glw said:

    felix said:

    Many thanks to the ERG et al who look to have ensured by their rank stupidity that the odds on the UK remaining in the UK have increased dramatically today. Personally I'd have been content with T. May's deal in line with the Referendum but heigh ho they have pressed self-desrtuct so if we end up remaining it is all on them.

    Am sure the R in ERG stands for Remain.
    What do the E and G stand for?
    European Group
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    Ŷ
    Sean_F said:

    Viceroy said:

    glw said:



    Indeed with hindsight this democratisation of party politics has been a total disaster, as our two main parties have fallen under the control of extremists who by and large are also complete fucking idiots.

    The extremists are the Blairs, Camerons and Osbornes who hijacked and have controlled the main parties since the 1990s. Invading other countries on lies, handing over our sovereignty no matter how many times we say No, running our towns into the ground whilst north London is handed everything on a plate. Sending billions off to African dictators in Foreign Aid whilst schools cannot even afford textbooks, and pensioners are forced to sell their homes to fund their own cares. Allowing uncontrolled mass migration whilst our young aren't trained because "we cant afford it". Granting Jihadists human rights, whilst ignoring the right of the British people to live in safety and security.

    THEY are the extremists and people on right and left have had enough. The liberal elite represent nobody but themselves in their north London bubble.
    You'd call me part of this elite and I live in the back of beyond aka where England meets Wales. We're everywhere. You can't escape us. Most people educated beyond the 6th. form end up with these internationalist, liberal, outward-looking attitudes.

    By the way, I'm a bit puzzled why you changed your avatar and are no longer Enoch Powell's great-nephew so to speak. Is it because you discovered that he voted to ban capital punishment and legalise male homosexuality? He was quite a liberal on some things ...

    There's quite a simple solution to your complaints about the poor state of public services like libraries police, etc and it's called a return to progressive taxation. Western countries had it from the 1930s to the 1980s. Then two people called Thatcher and Reagan took over.
    The moderate, rational, centrist politicians gave us the Great Financial Crash and the Iraq war, so it's perhaps unsurprising that their stock is currently so low.
    You mean the Iraq War supported by that diehard Brexiteer and Johnson campaign chief, Ian Duncan Smith. And the financial system also supported by him? And Boris - who has boasted about how much he has been on the side of the bankers who gave us the Great Financial Crash.

    Are those the moderate rational centrist politicians you are talking about?

    Though you are right that amongst intelligent people the stock of IDS and Johnson is pretty low since such people are usually pretty good good at spotting politicians who are thick, liars and incompetents.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    kinabalu said:

    There'll be no proroguing of anything - especially not parliament.

    Parliament did not get to where it is today by letting itself get prorogued.

    Parliament gets prorogued all the time just not usually for political reasons... Though amusingly the last time it was prorogued for political reasons hypocrite John Major did it... ;)
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,316
    Cummings ability to make enemies is legendary. Putting him charge of Downing St. would be spectacular.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    The Return on Cummings should be more of a second term project? ;)
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,617

    eek said:

    TGOHF said:

    philiph said:

    Tory Party is unmanageable right now. That makes an election more likely as time passes.

    This. All these priggish troublemakers fade into insignificance if you have a large majority.

    Still looks like the remain "squad" will get the blame if we don't leave on 31st October.

    An election in that scenario should be decisive.
    I suspect it won't be. Remain will pick up a few seats, Labour will win more than expected because a referendum is neither here nor there and the Tories will be roughly the same (say -10 to 20 or so seats).

    And Parliament would be even more screwed...
    100% wrong. It will be the "who governs Britain - the voters or the MPs?" election.
    I've been quiet for a while...... all sorts of family things happening, some good, some bad. I thought we were a representative democracy; we elected Members of Parliament to use their best, informed, judgement in the management of the country, not delegates who took soundings in their constituencies and then voted the way they wre told.
    Secondly, we, the people, (to use a phrase), don't like being asked to go to the the ballot box too often. Most elections since WWII, where the PM has gone to the country before they needed to, have lost. I'm thinking 1951, 1974 and 2017. 1966 was an exception, of course, but surely one that proves the rule. Wilson had been asked to prove himself and his party, and had.
    2017 was very much an unneccesary election, called by a PM who said she would do no such thing. The next one will be back on course - seen as being the required election cycle.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,679
    Honestly, what kind of person calls other people peasants and tells them to get back to their council houses? God I hate snobs like that.

    Newcastle United stars Jonjo Shelvey and Karl Darlow were caught up in a 3am street fight where a rival was punched and kicked after alopecia-sufferer Shelvey was allegedly called a 'bald c***' , MailOnline can reveal today.

    Goalkeeper Karl Darlow is alleged to have kicked a man in the back during a brawl outside a Northumberland takeaway after an argument involving team-mate Shelvey following a pub crawl.

    The fracas in Morpeth kicked off when the millionaire midfielder responded to the 'bald c***' taunt by telling his abuser: 'Go back to your council house, you peasant’.


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7260441/Newcastle-footballers-Jonjo-Shelvey-Karl-Darlow-caught-bust-outside-pizza-shop.html

  • rural_voterrural_voter Posts: 2,038
    Sean_F said:

    Viceroy said:

    glw said:



    Indeed with hindsight this democratisation of party politics has been a total disaster, as our two main parties have fallen under the control of extremists who by and large are also complete fucking idiots.

    The extremists are the Blairs, Camerons and Osbornes who hijacked and have controlled the main parties since the 1990s. Invading other countries on lies, handing over our sovereignty no matter how many times we say No, running our towns into the ground whilst north London is handed everything on a plate. Sending billions off to African dictators in Foreign Aid whilst schools cannot even afford textbooks, and pensioners are forced to sell their homes to fund their own cares. Allowing uncontrolled mass migration whilst our young aren't trained because "we cant afford it". Granting Jihadists human rights, whilst ignoring the right of the British people to live in safety and security.

    THEY are the extremists and people on right and left have had enough. The liberal elite represent nobody but themselves in their north London bubble.
    You'd call me part of this elite and I live in the back of beyond aka where England meets Wales. We're everywhere. You can't escape us. Most people educated beyond the 6th. form end up with these internationalist, liberal, outward-looking attitudes.

    By the way, I'm a bit puzzled why you changed your avatar and are no longer Enoch Powell's great-nephew so to speak. Is it because you discovered that he voted to ban capital punishment and legalise male homosexuality? He was quite a liberal on some things ..:
    There's quite a simple solution to your complaints about the poor state of public services like libraries police, etc and it's called a return to progressive taxation. Western countries had it from the 1930s to the 1980s. Then two people called Thatcher and Reagan took over.
    The moderate, rational, centrist politicians gave us the Great Financial Crash and the Iraq war, so it's perhaps unsurprising that their stock is currently so low.
    Not really. Blair accepted the so-called Thatcher Settlement' for reasons unknown to me unless the Tories in the HoC 1994 were right: 'Good grief, he's one of us'. Economic laissez faire gave us the GFC, which according to George Magnus was traceable to a credit bubble starting around 1982. The 'liberal intervention' attitude popularised by Clinton and Blair gave us an illegal war in Iraq.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,478

    eek said:

    TGOHF said:

    philiph said:

    Tory Party is unmanageable right now. That makes an election more likely as time passes.

    This. All these priggish troublemakers fade into insignificance if you have a large majority.

    Still looks like the remain "squad" will get the blame if we don't leave on 31st October.

    An election in that scenario should be decisive.
    I suspect it won't be. Remain will pick up a few seats, Labour will win more than expected because a referendum is neither here nor there and the Tories will be roughly the same (say -10 to 20 or so seats).

    And Parliament would be even more screwed...
    100% wrong. It will be the "who governs Britain - the voters or the MPs?" election.
    I've been quiet for a while...... all sorts of family things happening, some good, some bad. I thought we were a representative democracy; we elected Members of Parliament to use their best, informed, judgement in the management of the country, not delegates who took soundings in their constituencies and then voted the way they wre told.
    Secondly, we, the people, (to use a phrase), don't like being asked to go to the the ballot box too often. Most elections since WWII, where the PM has gone to the country before they needed to, have lost. I'm thinking 1951, 1974 and 2017. 1966 was an exception, of course, but surely one that proves the rule. Wilson had been asked to prove himself and his party, and had.
    2017 was very much an unneccesary election, called by a PM who said she would do no such thing. The next one will be back on course - seen as being the required election cycle.
    I suspect Brenda from Bristol won't agree with you!
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414
    Meanwhile I am shortly off to vote. For Northumbria PCC. A fine selection. A Tory who has his finger on the pulse of crime and policing in the NE from his home in Lincolnshire. A LD who thinks we should abolish the post altogether. A Labour councillor with no experience of the subject, or a complete cocoa pop of an independent who has plenty of history with the law...mostly of being warned about her behaviour.
    Who to choose?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    https://twitter.com/DAaronovitch/status/1151870105955045377

    Are there any jewish staff left in Labour anyway?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414
    edited July 2019

    Honestly, what kind of person calls other people peasants and tells them to get back to their council houses? God I hate snobs like that.

    Newcastle United stars Jonjo Shelvey and Karl Darlow were caught up in a 3am street fight where a rival was punched and kicked after alopecia-sufferer Shelvey was allegedly called a 'bald c***' , MailOnline can reveal today.

    Goalkeeper Karl Darlow is alleged to have kicked a man in the back during a brawl outside a Northumberland takeaway after an argument involving team-mate Shelvey following a pub crawl.

    The fracas in Morpeth kicked off when the millionaire midfielder responded to the 'bald c***' taunt by telling his abuser: 'Go back to your council house, you peasant’.


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7260441/Newcastle-footballers-Jonjo-Shelvey-Karl-Darlow-caught-bust-outside-pizza-shop.html

    Only surprise there being a Newcastle United player aiming a kick successfully.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,679
    dixiedean said:

    Meanwhile I am shortly off to vote. For Northumbria PCC. A fine selection. A Tory who has his finger on the pulse of crime and policing in the NE from his home in Lincolnshire. A LD who thinks we should abolish the post altogether. A Labour councillor with no experience of the subject, or a complete cocoa pop of an independent who has plenty of history with the law...mostly of being warned about her behaviour.
    Who to choose?

    How good are you at drawing a cock and balls?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    Phil said:

    Cummings ability to make enemies is legendary. Putting him charge of Downing St. would be spectacular.

    He has also iirc repeatedly denounced the entire civil service as unfit to govern and seems obsessed with using visualisation and modelling techniques from silicon valley.

    There will be no kick back from the civil service obviously.
  • DadgeDadge Posts: 2,052

    glw said:

    felix said:

    Many thanks to the ERG et al who look to have ensured by their rank stupidity that the odds on the UK remaining in the UK have increased dramatically today. Personally I'd have been content with T. May's deal in line with the Referendum but heigh ho they have pressed self-desrtuct so if we end up remaining it is all on them.

    Am sure the R in ERG stands for Remain.
    What do the E and G stand for?
    European Group
    Typical remainers.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    Surely the Tory Party in its present form is unsustainable. With the knowledge that their new PM has said he wants the option of proroguing parliament up to 60 of his own MP's have voted against him. His honeymoon period doesn't look like it's going too well
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,478
    dixiedean said:

    Meanwhile I am shortly off to vote. For Northumbria PCC. A fine selection. A Tory who has his finger on the pulse of crime and policing in the NE from his home in Lincolnshire. A LD who thinks we should abolish the post altogether. A Labour councillor with no experience of the subject, or a complete cocoa pop of an independent who has plenty of history with the law...mostly of being warned about her behaviour.
    Who to choose?

    At least the LD sounds sensible.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,366
    Mr Cole,

    Its seems straightforward. The electorate voted for Brexit. The MPs voted to accept the decision. Then they decided to make their own minds up and not accept the decision.


    Any future GE will be the electorate versus the MPs. Not a good look, but they brought it on themselves.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    dixiedean said:

    Meanwhile I am shortly off to vote. For Northumbria PCC. A fine selection. A Tory who has his finger on the pulse of crime and policing in the NE from his home in Lincolnshire. A LD who thinks we should abolish the post altogether. A Labour councillor with no experience of the subject, or a complete cocoa pop of an independent who has plenty of history with the law...mostly of being warned about her behaviour.
    Who to choose?

    The labour candidate is pretty fit like.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414

    dixiedean said:

    Meanwhile I am shortly off to vote. For Northumbria PCC. A fine selection. A Tory who has his finger on the pulse of crime and policing in the NE from his home in Lincolnshire. A LD who thinks we should abolish the post altogether. A Labour councillor with no experience of the subject, or a complete cocoa pop of an independent who has plenty of history with the law...mostly of being warned about her behaviour.
    Who to choose?

    The labour candidate is pretty fit like.
    Yep. Would it be wrong to vote purely on the basis I'd like to see more of her on TV?
  • Animal_pbAnimal_pb Posts: 608

    dixiedean said:

    Meanwhile I am shortly off to vote. For Northumbria PCC. A fine selection. A Tory who has his finger on the pulse of crime and policing in the NE from his home in Lincolnshire. A LD who thinks we should abolish the post altogether. A Labour councillor with no experience of the subject, or a complete cocoa pop of an independent who has plenty of history with the law...mostly of being warned about her behaviour.
    Who to choose?

    How good are you at drawing a cock and balls?
    If you're offering yourself as a life model, you should be aware that few people do miniatures these days.
  • DayTripperDayTripper Posts: 137

    Cyclefree said:

    Viceroy said:

    TOPPING said:



    Gah!!!!

    It was all so simple before....

    But to answer, of course it works both ways. You have cancelled out @Viceroy* bless his cotton (orange) socks.

    So he can rant and rave all he wants (and indeed frequently does so) and you can sit there calmly and invalidate his every action and effort.

    *Of course I realise that @Viceroy is an amusing made up troll but for the sake of argument the point still stands, there will be others.

    One snag in that however.

    For every Remainer who has joined the Tory Party, 10 Kippers have joined.

    That is why Boris is going to win by a landslide, the government is moving towards backing No Deal and deselections are ramping up. We have our hands clasped around the throat of the Tory Party.
    So you’ve admitted you’re not a Conservative. Do you even live in Britain?
    He most certainly is not a conservative. He belongs in TBP along with Farage and the rest.

    Also early signs that he is completely losing it including resorting to capitals.

    Sadly HYUFD seems to have lost his sense of balance too joining a deranged cult that will only end in tears

    The mps who voted against or abstained today were correct in their actions.

    However, I do have a problem with the likes of Grieve and Bebb who, while using no deal as an excuse to stop the proroguing of the HOC, have an agenda is to stop any form of Brexit
    I'm beginning to think that HYUFD must have one of those pods in his cellar, a la "Invasion of the Bodysnatchers".
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,679

    dixiedean said:

    Meanwhile I am shortly off to vote. For Northumbria PCC. A fine selection. A Tory who has his finger on the pulse of crime and policing in the NE from his home in Lincolnshire. A LD who thinks we should abolish the post altogether. A Labour councillor with no experience of the subject, or a complete cocoa pop of an independent who has plenty of history with the law...mostly of being warned about her behaviour.
    Who to choose?

    The labour candidate is pretty fit like.
    Link please, so I'm better informed on this critical election.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,133
    Roger said:

    Surely the Tory Party in its present form is unsustainable. With the knowledge that their new PM has said he wants the option of proroguing parliament up to 60 of his own MP's have voted against him. His honeymoon period doesn't look like it's going too well

    Boris will pivot once in Office to achieve a brexit that may well be very similar to TM's

    He is not going to want to be PM for a few weeks

    Furthermore, of those who abstained or voted against today only a handful would not support a vote on a WDA and of course, we know upto 40 labour mps would do the same
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    Phil said:

    Cummings ability to make enemies is legendary. Putting him charge of Downing St. would be spectacular.

    A master stroke. He could tell the one about the car hurtling towards the cliff.....
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992

    dixiedean said:

    Meanwhile I am shortly off to vote. For Northumbria PCC. A fine selection. A Tory who has his finger on the pulse of crime and policing in the NE from his home in Lincolnshire. A LD who thinks we should abolish the post altogether. A Labour councillor with no experience of the subject, or a complete cocoa pop of an independent who has plenty of history with the law...mostly of being warned about her behaviour.
    Who to choose?

    The labour candidate is pretty fit like.
    Agree

    https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2019/07/17/16/16168946-7257369-image-a-46_1563378257450.jpg
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468

    dixiedean said:

    Meanwhile I am shortly off to vote. For Northumbria PCC. A fine selection. A Tory who has his finger on the pulse of crime and policing in the NE from his home in Lincolnshire. A LD who thinks we should abolish the post altogether. A Labour councillor with no experience of the subject, or a complete cocoa pop of an independent who has plenty of history with the law...mostly of being warned about her behaviour.
    Who to choose?

    The labour candidate is pretty fit like.
    Link please, so I'm better informed on this critical election.
    https://m.facebook.com/KiMcGuinness/
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    In all seriousness I’m going to vote for the Lib Dem candidate to show my support for abolishing the pointless waste of money.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,679

    dixiedean said:

    Meanwhile I am shortly off to vote. For Northumbria PCC. A fine selection. A Tory who has his finger on the pulse of crime and policing in the NE from his home in Lincolnshire. A LD who thinks we should abolish the post altogether. A Labour councillor with no experience of the subject, or a complete cocoa pop of an independent who has plenty of history with the law...mostly of being warned about her behaviour.
    Who to choose?

    The labour candidate is pretty fit like.
    Link please, so I'm better informed on this critical election.
    https://m.facebook.com/KiMcGuinness/
    Thanks.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,733

    dixiedean said:

    Meanwhile I am shortly off to vote. For Northumbria PCC. A fine selection. A Tory who has his finger on the pulse of crime and policing in the NE from his home in Lincolnshire. A LD who thinks we should abolish the post altogether. A Labour councillor with no experience of the subject, or a complete cocoa pop of an independent who has plenty of history with the law...mostly of being warned about her behaviour.
    Who to choose?

    The labour candidate is pretty fit like.
    Link please, so I'm better informed on this critical election.
    Labour a clear winner:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-48744563

  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,478
    CD13 said:

    Mr Cole,

    Its seems straightforward. The electorate voted for Brexit. The MPs voted to accept the decision. Then they decided to make their own minds up and not accept the decision.


    Any future GE will be the electorate versus the MPs. Not a good look, but they brought it on themselves.

    That's the problem with referenda. A small majority of those voting voted for Brexit. Agree about the MP's. However in the last three years several things have happened. First it has become clear that no version of Brexit appears other than disastrous, or varying degrees of disastrous. Second what 'Brexit' actually meant was an 'all things to all men (and women)' jobbie. Thirdly most MP's realised this and felt that they could not, in good conscience, as representatives, not delegates, maintain their original position.
    There is also a recognition that, because of the age pattern of the voters some at least of those who voted to leave have (probably) died, and been replaced by voters who do not want to leave.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,847

    Roger said:

    Surely the Tory Party in its present form is unsustainable. With the knowledge that their new PM has said he wants the option of proroguing parliament up to 60 of his own MP's have voted against him. His honeymoon period doesn't look like it's going too well

    Boris will pivot once in Office to achieve a brexit that may well be very similar to TM's

    He is not going to want to be PM for a few weeks

    Furthermore, of those who abstained or voted against today only a handful would not support a vote on a WDA and of course, we know upto 40 labour mps would do the same
    You are probably right. What amazes me is he doesnt seem to understand that he had the leadership contest in the bag when he made the last two. At that stage he should have been reaching out to get the numbers, instead he has just pissed off a load of people whose votes he will need. Exactly what May got wrong - when you have little or no majority don't needlessly piss people off. May eventually offered the labour leavers all that they initially wanted, but because of the journey to get there, got told where to go. It will happen again with Boris.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992

    In all seriousness I’m going to vote for the Lib Dem candidate to show my support for abolishing the pointless waste of money.

    An elected representative allowing you to vote for the direction that policing takes in your area.

    That is an important vote.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238
    Roger said:

    Surely the Tory Party in its present form is unsustainable. With the knowledge that their new PM has said he wants the option of proroguing parliament up to 60 of his own MP's have voted against him. His honeymoon period doesn't look like it's going too well

    I think both major parties are unsustainable in their current forms.

    In a representative democracy with FPTP, sustainable government can only happen in two party system where such parties are broad coalitions accommodating a variety of different political views.

    Establishing exclusive ideologies within those parties, as Corbynism has done on the one hand, and Brexiteerism has on the other, either requires exclusion of other political viewpoints, or wholesale indoctrination of electorates in a manner not compatible with a free society.

    The idea that three or four additional parties can happily coexist in a first past the post system is simply ridiculous, as you would have to accept on a nationwide basis the idea of 25% of a constituency's vote being rewarded by all of its parliamentary representation.

    The only two solutions are a return to traditional broad church parties... or another thread on PR.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Phil said:

    Cummings ability to make enemies is legendary. Putting him charge of Downing St. would be spectacular.

    Cummings is Gove's man - would be an excellent choice but Boris's thinking is too limited.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992

    CD13 said:

    Mr Cole,

    Its seems straightforward. The electorate voted for Brexit. The MPs voted to accept the decision. Then they decided to make their own minds up and not accept the decision.


    Any future GE will be the electorate versus the MPs. Not a good look, but they brought it on themselves.

    That's the problem with referenda. A small majority of those voting voted for Brexit. Agree about the MP's. However in the last three years several things have happened. First it has become clear that no version of Brexit appears other than disastrous, or varying degrees of disastrous. Second what 'Brexit' actually meant was an 'all things to all men (and women)' jobbie. Thirdly most MP's realised this and felt that they could not, in good conscience, as representatives, not delegates, maintain their original position.
    There is also a recognition that, because of the age pattern of the voters some at least of those who voted to leave have (probably) died, and been replaced by voters who do not want to leave.
    Nevertheless the people voted for Brexit and, in the absence of any further instruction on the ballot paper, Brexit should be delivered. Well of course we'd all like a nice deal and so forth but if not, then not.

    I mean I think Brexit is the most absurd, damaging, needless thing that has happened to this country in decades if not beyond. But the people voted for it and it must be delivered. All this deal this, transition that...nice to have that's all. It must be delivered and if the politicians can't agree then fine, just leave.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238

    Roger said:

    Surely the Tory Party in its present form is unsustainable. With the knowledge that their new PM has said he wants the option of proroguing parliament up to 60 of his own MP's have voted against him. His honeymoon period doesn't look like it's going too well

    Boris will pivot once in Office to achieve a brexit that may well be very similar to TM's

    He is not going to want to be PM for a few weeks

    Furthermore, of those who abstained or voted against today only a handful would not support a vote on a WDA and of course, we know upto 40 labour mps would do the same
    You are probably right. What amazes me is he doesnt seem to understand that he had the leadership contest in the bag when he made the last two. At that stage he should have been reaching out to get the numbers, instead he has just pissed off a load of people whose votes he will need. Exactly what May got wrong - when you have little or no majority don't needlessly piss people off. May eventually offered the labour leavers all that they initially wanted, but because of the journey to get there, got told where to go. It will happen again with Boris.
    And May started out with a degree of goodwill.....
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    Phil said:

    Cummings ability to make enemies is legendary. Putting him charge of Downing St. would be spectacular.

    He has also iirc repeatedly denounced the entire civil service as unfit to govern and seems obsessed with using visualisation and modelling techniques from silicon valley.

    There will be no kick back from the civil service obviously.
    The civil service has been awesome over Brexit though - doesn't need any improvement.

  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    edited July 2019
    Interesting to see Tories who were never seen as part of the awkward squad voting against the government .

    Keith Simpson never figured in anyone’s calculations . He’s never rebelled before in 22 years.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    TOPPING said:

    In all seriousness I’m going to vote for the Lib Dem candidate to show my support for abolishing the pointless waste of money.

    An elected representative allowing you to vote for the direction that policing takes in your area.

    That is an important vote.
    That’s not what it is though is it? It’s just a cushy job for Labour to reward someone with.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,478
    TOPPING said:

    In all seriousness I’m going to vote for the Lib Dem candidate to show my support for abolishing the pointless waste of money.

    An elected representative allowing you to vote for the direction that policing takes in your area.

    That is an important vote.
    TOPPING said:

    In all seriousness I’m going to vote for the Lib Dem candidate to show my support for abolishing the pointless waste of money.

    An elected representative allowing you to vote for the direction that policing takes in your area.

    That is an important vote.
    TOPPING said:

    In all seriousness I’m going to vote for the Lib Dem candidate to show my support for abolishing the pointless waste of money.

    An elected representative allowing you to vote for the direction that policing takes in your area.

    That is an important vote.
    Quite frankly te difference between having 'an elected representative [responsible] for the direction that policing takes in your area' and a Police Committee consisting of councillors seems to be that under the former we have less police on the streets, and generally speaking they are less effective.
  • surbiton19surbiton19 Posts: 1,469
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238
    The death toll in the Japanese animation studio arson is now 33:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-49027178
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238
    Of course you could - Boris has extended form over decades in making up EU regulatory stories.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992

    Quite frankly te difference between having 'an elected representative [responsible] for the direction that policing takes in your area' and a Police Committee consisting of councillors seems to be that under the former we have less police on the streets, and generally speaking they are less effective.

    This bloke, an otherwise fierce critic of the police and its methods, seems to think it's a very good idea, it was one of his key recommendations in fact.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PC_David_Copperfield
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,806
    Good afternoon, everyone.

  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,478

    TOPPING said:

    In all seriousness I’m going to vote for the Lib Dem candidate to show my support for abolishing the pointless waste of money.

    An elected representative allowing you to vote for the direction that policing takes in your area.

    That is an important vote.
    TOPPING said:

    In all seriousness I’m going to vote for the Lib Dem candidate to show my support for abolishing the pointless waste of money.

    An elected representative allowing you to vote for the direction that policing takes in your area.

    That is an important vote.
    TOPPING said:

    In all seriousness I’m going to vote for the Lib Dem candidate to show my support for abolishing the pointless waste of money.

    An elected representative allowing you to vote for the direction that policing takes in your area.

    That is an important vote.
    Quite frankly te difference between having 'an elected representative [responsible] for the direction that policing takes in your area' and a Police Committee consisting of councillors seems to be that under the former we have less police on the streets, and generally speaking they are less effective.
    The curse of vanilla. Apologies.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992

    TOPPING said:

    In all seriousness I’m going to vote for the Lib Dem candidate to show my support for abolishing the pointless waste of money.

    An elected representative allowing you to vote for the direction that policing takes in your area.

    That is an important vote.
    That’s not what it is though is it? It’s just a cushy job for Labour to reward someone with.
    Only if people don't pay attention to the various arguments of the candidates and vote tribally.
This discussion has been closed.