In all seriousness I’m going to vote for the Lib Dem candidate to show my support for abolishing the pointless waste of money.
An elected representative allowing you to vote for the direction that policing takes in your area.
That is an important vote.
That’s not what it is though is it? It’s just a cushy job for Labour to reward someone with.
Tbf, Vera Baird, as a former Solicitor-General was actually well qualified for the role. Noticeably, she has realised she was actually over-qualiffied, and thus buggered off to a better job.
Of course you could - Boris has extended form over decades in making up EU regulatory stories.
The problem is that constantly winging it and trying to bullshit your way through things may work if you're a journalist, but as PM, the voters are going to get tired of the joke pretty quick. Battling against a lost majority sometime over the course of next year, Johnson will drop the ball, and the clang it makes will finish the Tory party as an electable force.
Meanwhile I am shortly off to vote. For Northumbria PCC. A fine selection. A Tory who has his finger on the pulse of crime and policing in the NE from his home in Lincolnshire. A LD who thinks we should abolish the post altogether. A Labour councillor with no experience of the subject, or a complete cocoa pop of an independent who has plenty of history with the law...mostly of being warned about her behaviour. Who to choose?
The labour candidate is pretty fit like.
Link please, so I'm better informed on this critical election.
I am not ashamed of finding women attractive, in, hopefully, a nice way.
I prefer the Facebook link, there's a little 1980s pop video wind machine in hair going on on that BBC pic (mind yo,u Northumbria / policing, I suppose, she could just be doing an unsuccessful Vera impersonation)
I'm.definitely developing a bit of a thing for Gillian Keegan, formidable the couple of times I've seen her on TV: a thinking man's Karen Brady. She's definitely welcome with Scott, TSE, Southam, Ali McGovern etc etc etc etc in our broad church centre party entryist takeover come the fateful day.
No hopers: The first draw includes 10 candidates: Michael Bennet, Steve Bullock, Bill de Blasio, John Delaney, Tulsi Gabbard, Kirsten Gillibrand, John Hickenlooper, Jay Inslee, Tim Ryan and Marianne Williamson.
Very little to half a chancers: The second draw includes six candidates: Cory Booker, Pete Buttigieg, Julián Castro, Amy Klobuchar, Beto O’Rourke and Andrew Yang.
Big four : The final draw includes four candidates: Joe Biden, Kamala Harris, Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren.
I note if we use @rsc1000 favoured metric of Iowa/New Hampshire then BOOTEDGEDGE is moving toward being a top tier rather than a 2nd tier candidate. Because "even" numbers are required though he can't be placed with the top 4 - in reality he's somewhere between the big four and the rest of his seeding pool.
I think there's really four and a half candidates in this, with Buttigieg being the half. (He gets a half on the back of 1. leading in Iowa on the latest poll, and 2. topping the Democratic fund raising charts in Q2 with a staggering $25m raised.)
It's possible that one of the "very little to half a chancers" graduates upwards, but none of them raised much money in Q2, so they can't buy exposure, and they are all on 1-4% in the polls, so a break-out (while possible) is unlikely.
Meanwhile I am shortly off to vote. For Northumbria PCC. A fine selection. A Tory who has his finger on the pulse of crime and policing in the NE from his home in Lincolnshire. A LD who thinks we should abolish the post altogether. A Labour councillor with no experience of the subject, or a complete cocoa pop of an independent who has plenty of history with the law...mostly of being warned about her behaviour. Who to choose?
How good are you at drawing a cock and balls?
If you're offering yourself as a life model, you should be aware that few people do miniatures these days.
Well, if you reckon that one of the four-and-a-half major candidates has an 90% chance of winning the nomination, then they should all be between 3 and 7.
Interesting to see Tories who were never seen as part of the awkward squad voting against the government .
Keith Simpson never figured in anyone’s calculations . He’s never rebelled before in 22 years.
The genuine Conservatives are finally losing it with the nutters I guess
In all seriousness if I were a Tory MP (I never will be) even as a determined Leaver and someone who would always choose No Deal over Remain were that the final choice, I would have voted for this amendment. There are some very basic principles involved and suspending Parliament just to prevent them doing their job is so far from acceptable as to override even the risks that this might derail Brexit.
Meanwhile I am shortly off to vote. For Northumbria PCC. A fine selection. A Tory who has his finger on the pulse of crime and policing in the NE from his home in Lincolnshire. A LD who thinks we should abolish the post altogether. A Labour councillor with no experience of the subject, or a complete cocoa pop of an independent who has plenty of history with the law...mostly of being warned about her behaviour. Who to choose?
It’s quite astonishing to see what has happened today .
Dominic Grieves original amendment which was much weaker than this scraped home by one vote .
The Lords then added an amendment , this was strengthened today and it passed by 41 votes !
All this could have been avoided by a simple no to suspend Parliament by Johnson . So in effect he’s forced this issue and the symbolism of such a rebellion amongst the Tories puts a marker down .
I really do think the Tories have badly misjudged this Leadership , there’s no chance Bozo can unite the party .
Gove for all his faults could have done that , the fact he remained loyal to May and did at least try to hold out an olive branch to the more pro EU wing of the party .
Interesting to see Tories who were never seen as part of the awkward squad voting against the government .
Keith Simpson never figured in anyone’s calculations . He’s never rebelled before in 22 years.
The genuine Conservatives are finally losing it with the nutters I guess
In all seriousness if I were a Tory MP (I never will be) even as a determined Leaver and someone who would always choose No Deal over Remain were that the final choice, I would have voted for this amendment. There are some very basic principles involved and suspending Parliament just to prevent them doing their job is so far from acceptable as to override even the risks that this might derail Brexit.
History is littered with people who pulled down working systems to get an outcome they preferred.
“William Roper: “So, now you give the Devil the benefit of law!”
Sir Thomas More: “Yes! What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil?”
William Roper: “Yes, I'd cut down every law in England to do that!”
Sir Thomas More: “Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned 'round on you, where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country is planted thick with laws, from coast to coast, Man's laws, not God's! And if you cut them down, and you're just the man to do it, do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!”
Interesting to see Tories who were never seen as part of the awkward squad voting against the government .
Keith Simpson never figured in anyone’s calculations . He’s never rebelled before in 22 years.
The genuine Conservatives are finally losing it with the nutters I guess
In all seriousness if I were a Tory MP (I never will be) even as a determined Leaver and someone who would always choose No Deal over Remain were that the final choice, I would have voted for this amendment. There are some very basic principles involved and suspending Parliament just to prevent them doing their job is so far from acceptable as to override even the risks that this might derail Brexit.
History is littered with people who pulled down working systems to get an outcome they preferred.
“William Roper: “So, now you give the Devil the benefit of law!”
Sir Thomas More: “Yes! What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil?”
William Roper: “Yes, I'd cut down every law in England to do that!”
Sir Thomas More: “Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned 'round on you, where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country is planted thick with laws, from coast to coast, Man's laws, not God's! And if you cut them down, and you're just the man to do it, do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!”
Exactly the quote I was thinking of today. One of the finest in English Literature.
As an aside I was very surprised when I read A Man For All Seasons as part of my English O Level, to find it was written in the 1950s. I had always believed to have been centuries older than that, so good was the writing.
Interesting to see Tories who were never seen as part of the awkward squad voting against the government .
Keith Simpson never figured in anyone’s calculations . He’s never rebelled before in 22 years.
The genuine Conservatives are finally losing it with the nutters I guess
In all seriousness if I were a Tory MP (I never will be) even as a determined Leaver and someone who would always choose No Deal over Remain were that the final choice, I would have voted for this amendment. There are some very basic principles involved and suspending Parliament just to prevent them doing their job is so far from acceptable as to override even the risks that this might derail Brexit.
"Immigration, citizenship and those “go home” tweets Matthew Parris defends his belief that full citizenship comes gradually Matthew Parris & Freddie Sayers"
It’s quite astonishing to see what has happened today .
Dominic Grieves original amendment which was much weaker than this scraped home by one vote .
The Lords then added an amendment , this was strengthened today and it passed by 41 votes !
All this could have been avoided by a simple no to suspend Parliament by Johnson . So in effect he’s forced this issue and the symbolism of such a rebellion amongst the Tories puts a marker down .
I really do think the Tories have badly misjudged this Leadership , there’s no chance Bozo can unite the party .
Gove for all his faults could have done that , the fact he remained loyal to May and did at least try to hold out an olive branch to the more pro EU wing of the party .
I just can’t see how this ends well.
Brexit cannot now be resolved by compromise. It could have been had T May gone down that route in 2016 but now both sides are too deeply entrenched. As Bozo said, it's do or die. And both his premiership and Brexit are going to die.
To be fair you obviously could make it up because he did.
An example of how Boris will govern. With no regard to facts or information.
As I understand it the ice rules are because of concerns about Listeria in smoked fish. Not too serious for most people, but can kill you if the infection gets out of hand.
Interesting to see Tories who were never seen as part of the awkward squad voting against the government .
Keith Simpson never figured in anyone’s calculations . He’s never rebelled before in 22 years.
The genuine Conservatives are finally losing it with the nutters I guess
In all seriousness if I were a Tory MP (I never will be) even as a determined Leaver and someone who would always choose No Deal over Remain were that the final choice, I would have voted for this amendment. There are some very basic principles involved and suspending Parliament just to prevent them doing their job is so far from acceptable as to override even the risks that this might derail Brexit.
👍
That is my view
Despite HYFUD and Viceroy comments telling us to clear off to the Lib Dems we will remain and fight the ultras who think they can take us into some dark age and economic armageddon
No hopers: The first draw includes 10 candidates: Michael Bennet, Steve Bullock, Bill de Blasio, John Delaney, Tulsi Gabbard, Kirsten Gillibrand, John Hickenlooper, Jay Inslee, Tim Ryan and Marianne Williamson.
Very little to half a chancers: The second draw includes six candidates: Cory Booker, Pete Buttigieg, Julián Castro, Amy Klobuchar, Beto O’Rourke and Andrew Yang.
Big four : The final draw includes four candidates: Joe Biden, Kamala Harris, Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren.
I note if we use @rsc1000 favoured metric of Iowa/New Hampshire then BOOTEDGEDGE is moving toward being a top tier rather than a 2nd tier candidate. Because "even" numbers are required though he can't be placed with the top 4 - in reality he's somewhere between the big four and the rest of his seeding pool.
I think there's really four and a half candidates in this, with Buttigieg being the half. (He gets a half on the back of 1. leading in Iowa on the latest poll, and 2. topping the Democratic fund raising charts in Q2 with a staggering $25m raised.)
It's possible that one of the "very little to half a chancers" graduates upwards, but none of them raised much money in Q2, so they can't buy exposure, and they are all on 1-4% in the polls, so a break-out (while possible) is unlikely.
This month's debate is essentially their last chance.
Buttigieg is funded for considerably longer, and even if it becomes clear he has no chance of winning, might stay in for the exposure (and the chance of a VP slot). Anyone operating on fumes isn't going to persist for very long.
The crossbreaks imply a three-way split in London with Labour narrowly second in Scotland.
Labour are going nowhere in Scotland no matter how much you spin it
Yep - if Labour is second in scotland with more than a few token seats I think the model is wrong
It only gives Labour 15% there with the Tories on 13%. LDs and Brexit Party are both on 10%. Not inclined to believe the London data - Labour, LibDem & Tories all in 26% - 28% range.
It’s quite astonishing to see what has happened today .
Dominic Grieves original amendment which was much weaker than this scraped home by one vote .
The Lords then added an amendment , this was strengthened today and it passed by 41 votes !
All this could have been avoided by a simple no to suspend Parliament by Johnson . So in effect he’s forced this issue and the symbolism of such a rebellion amongst the Tories puts a marker down .
I really do think the Tories have badly misjudged this Leadership , there’s no chance Bozo can unite the party .
Gove for all his faults could have done that , the fact he remained loyal to May and did at least try to hold out an olive branch to the more pro EU wing of the party .
I just can’t see how this ends well.
Brexit cannot now be resolved by compromise. It could have been had T May gone down that route in 2016 but now both sides are too deeply entrenched. As Bozo said, it's do or die. And both his premiership and Brexit are going to die.
The thing is so many forecasts of what might happen have ended up not being realized . If someone had told me in early March we’d still be in the EU in the summer I wouldn’t have believed it .
The crossbreaks imply a three-way split in London with Labour narrowly second in Scotland.
Labour are going nowhere in Scotland no matter how much you spin it
Yep - if Labour is second in scotland with more than a few token seats I think the model is wrong
It only gives Labour 15% there with the Tories on 13%. LDs and Brexit Party are both on 10%. Not inclined to believe the London data - Labour, LibDem & Tories all in 26% - 28% range.
You generally do not like any data that shows labour in dire straights
Interesting to see Tories who were never seen as part of the awkward squad voting against the government .
Keith Simpson never figured in anyone’s calculations . He’s never rebelled before in 22 years.
The genuine Conservatives are finally losing it with the nutters I guess
In all seriousness if I were a Tory MP (I never will be) even as a determined Leaver and someone who would always choose No Deal over Remain were that the final choice, I would have voted for this amendment. There are some very basic principles involved and suspending Parliament just to prevent them doing their job is so far from acceptable as to override even the risks that this might derail Brexit.
History is littered with people who pulled down working systems to get an outcome they preferred.
“William Roper: “So, now you give the Devil the benefit of law!”
Sir Thomas More: “Yes! What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil?”
William Roper: “Yes, I'd cut down every law in England to do that!”
Sir Thomas More: “Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned 'round on you, where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country is planted thick with laws, from coast to coast, Man's laws, not God's! And if you cut them down, and you're just the man to do it, do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!”
The downside of that quote is that it strongly influenced my choice to study law at University instead of something interesting.
The crossbreaks imply a three-way split in London with Labour narrowly second in Scotland.
Labour are going nowhere in Scotland no matter how much you spin it
Yep - if Labour is second in scotland with more than a few token seats I think the model is wrong
It only gives Labour 15% there with the Tories on 13%. LDs and Brexit Party are both on 10%. Not inclined to believe the London data - Labour, LibDem & Tories all in 26% - 28% range.
You generally do not like any data that shows labour in dire straights
The Yougov London data actually shows a Tory and Labour surge compared with its earlier surveys - with the LibDems falling back.
The crossbreaks imply a three-way split in London with Labour narrowly second in Scotland.
Labour are going nowhere in Scotland no matter how much you spin it
Yep - if Labour is second in scotland with more than a few token seats I think the model is wrong
It only gives Labour 15% there with the Tories on 13%. LDs and Brexit Party are both on 10%. Not inclined to believe the London data - Labour, LibDem & Tories all in 26% - 28% range.
You generally do not like any data that shows labour in dire straights
The Yougov London dat actually shows a Tory and Labour surge compared with its earlier surveys - with the LibDems falling back.
Interesting to see Tories who were never seen as part of the awkward squad voting against the government .
Keith Simpson never figured in anyone’s calculations . He’s never rebelled before in 22 years.
The genuine Conservatives are finally losing it with the nutters I guess
In all seriousness if I were a Tory MP (I never will be) even as a determined Leaver and someone who would always choose No Deal over Remain were that the final choice, I would have voted for this amendment. There are some very basic principles involved and suspending Parliament just to prevent them doing their job is so far from acceptable as to override even the risks that this might derail Brexit.
👍
That is my view
Despite HYFUD and Viceroy comments telling us to clear off to the Lib Dems we will remain and fight the ultras who think they can take us into some dark age and economic armageddon
In the nicest possible way there are a number of you on here whom I struggle to understand why you/they are not in the LDs Those that I am thinking of really have views that are pretty well indistinguishable from mine (or am I in the wrong party?)
The crossbreaks imply a three-way split in London with Labour narrowly second in Scotland.
Labour are going nowhere in Scotland no matter how much you spin it
Yep - if Labour is second in scotland with more than a few token seats I think the model is wrong
It only gives Labour 15% there with the Tories on 13%. LDs and Brexit Party are both on 10%. Not inclined to believe the London data - Labour, LibDem & Tories all in 26% - 28% range.
You generally do not like any data that shows labour in dire straights
The Yougov London dat actually shows a Tory and Labour surge compared with its earlier surveys - with the LibDems falling back.
It’s quite astonishing to see what has happened today .
Dominic Grieves original amendment which was much weaker than this scraped home by one vote .
The Lords then added an amendment , this was strengthened today and it passed by 41 votes !
All this could have been avoided by a simple no to suspend Parliament by Johnson . So in effect he’s forced this issue and the symbolism of such a rebellion amongst the Tories puts a marker down .
I really do think the Tories have badly misjudged this Leadership , there’s no chance Bozo can unite the party .
Gove for all his faults could have done that , the fact he remained loyal to May and did at least try to hold out an olive branch to the more pro EU wing of the party .
I just can’t see how this ends well.
Brexit cannot now be resolved by compromise. It could have been had T May gone down that route in 2016 but now both sides are too deeply entrenched. As Bozo said, it's do or die. And both his premiership and Brexit are going to die.
The thing is so many forecasts of what might happen have ended up not being realized . If someone had told me in early March we’d still be in the EU in the summer I wouldn’t have believed it .
Nothing would shock me anymore .
It's clear that parliament will not countenance no deal and it's also clear that the EU will not change May's deal in any meaningful way. Bozo has set his face so strongly against that deal that he could not credibly recommend anything resembling it to the HoC. So it will not be no deal, it will not be the only deal on offer, ergo it will be remain, probably disguised as another A50 extension initially.
Interesting to see Tories who were never seen as part of the awkward squad voting against the government .
Keith Simpson never figured in anyone’s calculations . He’s never rebelled before in 22 years.
The genuine Conservatives are finally losing it with the nutters I guess
In all seriousness if I were a Tory MP (I never will be) even as a determined Leaver and someone who would always choose No Deal over Remain were that the final choice, I would have voted for this amendment. There are some very basic principles involved and suspending Parliament just to prevent them doing their job is so far from acceptable as to override even the risks that this might derail Brexit.
👍
That is my view
Despite HYFUD and Viceroy comments telling us to clear off to the Lib Dems we will remain and fight the ultras who think they can take us into some dark age and economic armageddon
In the nicest possible way there are a number of you on here whom I struggle to understand why you/they are not in the LDs Those that I am thinking of really have views that are pretty well indistinguishable from mine (or am I in the wrong party?)
Probably TBP if you agree with Viceroy but the conservative party has to be a broad church
Of course you could - Boris has extended form over decades in making up EU regulatory stories.
The problem is the idiot will be PM in a few days time. Who on earth advised him to use a smelly dead fish as a prop? Maybe I am being to generous to Boris: He probably thought of it! He cannot do statesman, he can only do clown...
It's a little unfortunate for the LDs that they're going through a leadership election at the moment. A few weeks ago they were first in the opinion polls and may have been able to capitalise on that situation if they'd had a leader in place. They've slightly lost the momentum since then, although Brecon & Radnor could help get it back.
Interesting to see Tories who were never seen as part of the awkward squad voting against the government .
Keith Simpson never figured in anyone’s calculations . He’s never rebelled before in 22 years.
The genuine Conservatives are finally losing it with the nutters I guess
In all seriousness if I were a Tory MP (I never will be) even as a determined Leaver and someone who would always choose No Deal over Remain were that the final choice, I would have voted for this amendment. There are some very basic principles involved and suspending Parliament just to prevent them doing their job is so far from acceptable as to override even the risks that this might derail Brexit.
👍
That is my view
Despite HYFUD and Viceroy comments telling us to clear off to the Lib Dems we will remain and fight the ultras who think they can take us into some dark age and economic armageddon
In the nicest possible way there are a number of you on here whom I struggle to understand why you/they are not in the LDs Those that I am thinking of really have views that are pretty well indistinguishable from mine (or am I in the wrong party?)
Probably TBP if you agree with Viceroy but the conservative party has to be a broad church
Oh BGNW I obviously worded that badly. I'm a LD. A shudder went down my back when I read that.
What I meant was we have an awful lot in in common as I do with a number of other moderate sensible Tories on here and I really don't feel like I am in the wrong party.
To quote HYFD however I am a 'lefty', something I don't think I have ever been called before.
Interesting to see Tories who were never seen as part of the awkward squad voting against the government .
Keith Simpson never figured in anyone’s calculations . He’s never rebelled before in 22 years.
The genuine Conservatives are finally losing it with the nutters I guess
In all seriousness if I were a Tory MP (I never will be) even as a determined Leaver and someone who would always choose No Deal over Remain were that the final choice, I would have voted for this amendment. There are some very basic principles involved and suspending Parliament just to prevent them doing their job is so far from acceptable as to override even the risks that this might derail Brexit.
👍
That is my view
Despite HYFUD and Viceroy comments telling us to clear off to the Lib Dems we will remain and fight the ultras who think they can take us into some dark age and economic armageddon
BigG, I have never actually told you to clear off to the LDs, it is more Tories who opposed the Withdrawal Agreement, opposed No Deal and refuse to back Brexit Deal or No Deal that applied to eg Grieve, Greening, Bebb, Gyimah, Lee etc
Interesting to see Tories who were never seen as part of the awkward squad voting against the government .
Keith Simpson never figured in anyone’s calculations . He’s never rebelled before in 22 years.
The genuine Conservatives are finally losing it with the nutters I guess
In all seriousness if I were a Tory MP (I never will be) even as a determined Leaver and someone who would always choose No Deal over Remain were that the final choice, I would have voted for this amendment. There are some very basic principles involved and suspending Parliament just to prevent them doing their job is so far from acceptable as to override even the risks that this might derail Brexit.
👍
That is my view
Despite HYFUD and Viceroy comments telling us to clear off to the Lib Dems we will remain and fight the ultras who think they can take us into some dark age and economic armageddon
In the nicest possible way there are a number of you on here whom I struggle to understand why you/they are not in the LDs Those that I am thinking of really have views that are pretty well indistinguishable from mine (or am I in the wrong party?)
Probably TBP if you agree with Viceroy but the conservative party has to be a broad church
Oh BGNW I obviously worded that badly. I'm a LD. A shudder went down my back when I read that.
What I meant was we have an awful lot in in common as I do with a number of other moderate sensible Tories on here and I really don't feel like I am in the wrong party.
To quote HYFD however I am a 'lefty', something I don't think I have ever been called before.
I think it is telling how comfortable the Cameron/Osborne brand of Tory was with the Coalition. They seemed much happier negotiating with Clegg and Alexander than they ever did with the ERG.
Interesting to see Tories who were never seen as part of the awkward squad voting against the government .
Keith Simpson never figured in anyone’s calculations . He’s never rebelled before in 22 years.
The genuine Conservatives are finally losing it with the nutters I guess
In all seriousness if I were a Tory MP (I never will be) even as a determined Leaver and someone who would always choose No Deal over Remain were that the final choice, I would have voted for this amendment. There are some very basic principles involved and suspending Parliament just to prevent them doing their job is so far from acceptable as to override even the risks that this might derail Brexit.
👍
That is my view
Despite HYFUD and Viceroy comments telling us to clear off to the Lib Dems we will remain and fight the ultras who think they can take us into some dark age and economic armageddon
BigG, I have never actually told you to clear off to the LDs, it is more Tories who opposed the Withdrawal Agreement, opposed No Deal and refuse to back Brexit Deal or No Deal that applied to
You have you know but I hope you will be cautious over suggesting fellow conservatives should leave the party. We have to be a broad church
It's a little unfortunate for the LDs that they're going through a leadership election at the moment. A few weeks ago they were first in the opinion polls and may have been able to capitalise on that situation if they'd had a leader in place. They've slightly lost the momentum since then, although Brecon & Radnor could help get it back.
How much of this is “unfortunate” and how much of it is Lib Dem weakness at managing the “air war”.
Interesting to see Tories who were never seen as part of the awkward squad voting against the government .
Keith Simpson never figured in anyone’s calculations . He’s never rebelled before in 22 years.
The genuine Conservatives are finally losing it with the nutters I guess
In all seriousness if I were a Tory MP (I never will be) even as a determined Leaver and someone who would always choose No Deal over Remain were that the final choice, I would have voted for this amendment. There are some very basic principles involved and suspending Parliament just to prevent them doing their job is so far from acceptable as to override even the risks that this might derail Brexit.
👍
That is my view
Despite HYFUD and Viceroy comments telling us to clear off to the Lib Dems we will remain and fight the ultras who think they can take us into some dark age and economic armageddon
In the nicest possible way there are a number of you on here whom I struggle to understand why you/they are not in the LDs Those that I am thinking of really have views that are pretty well indistinguishable from mine (or am I in the wrong party?)
Probably TBP if you agree with Viceroy but the conservative party has to be a broad church
Oh BGNW I obviously worded that badly. I'm a LD. A shudder went down my back when I read that.
What I meant was we have an awful lot in in common as I do with a number of other moderate sensible Tories on here and I really don't feel like I am in the wrong party.
To quote HYFD however I am a 'lefty', something I don't think I have ever been called before.
I think it is telling how comfortable the Cameron/Osborne brand of Tory was with the Coalition. They seemed much happier negotiating with Clegg and Alexander than they ever did with the ERG.
Can you blame them? The ERG are a bunch of obsessive whackos.
Interesting to see Tories who were never seen as part of the awkward squad voting against the government .
Keith Simpson never figured in anyone’s calculations . He’s never rebelled before in 22 years.
The genuine Conservatives are finally losing it with the nutters I guess
In all seriousness if I were a Tory MP (I never will be) even as a determined Leaver and someone who would always choose No Deal over Remain were that the final choice, I would have voted for this amendment. There are some very basic principles involved and suspending Parliament just to prevent them doing their job is so far from acceptable as to override even the risks that this might derail Brexit.
👍
That is my view
Despite HYFUD and Viceroy comments telling us to clear off to the Lib Dems we will remain and fight the ultras who think they can take us into some dark age and economic armageddon
In the nicest possible way there are a number of you on here whom I struggle to understand why you/they are not in the LDs Those that I am thinking of really have views that are pretty well indistinguishable from mine (or am I in the wrong party?)
Probably TBP if you agree with Viceroy but the conservative party has to be a broad church
Oh BGNW I obviously worded that badly. I'm a LD. A shudder went down my back when I read that.
What I meant was we have an awful lot in in common as I do with a number of other moderate sensible Tories on here and I really don't feel like I am in the wrong party.
To quote HYFD however I am a 'lefty', something I don't think I have ever been called before.
I think it is telling how comfortable the Cameron/Osborne brand of Tory was with the Coalition. They seemed much happier negotiating with Clegg and Alexander than they ever did with the ERG.
I think that is so true. I heard rumours of stuff Cameron/Osborne agreed with but couldn't do because they would not get it past the right of the party.
Good luck with that . Deselecting will see them resign the whip and the Tories are then totally screwed .
Nope, far better to get rid of the traitors and clean the stables to win back Brexit Party voters
You know what, I used to think you were just a deluded, gullible, intellectually challenged figure of fun. But when morons like you use phrases such as "traitors" for people that have given a life of service to their party and nation, I realise that you deserve nothing less than contempt. You are a worthless little worm with as much understanding as to what it means to be a Conservative as Jeremy Corbyn. You are completely beneath contempt.
People like me campaign week in and week out for the party and at weekends only for people like Grieve to reject what the vast majority of Tory members and voters want and what 17 million voted for and thus force thousands if not millions of our voters into the Brexit Party as a result.
Patronising, arrogant blowhards like you can lecture as much as you want but the sooner we are rid of the likes of you from the party the better, on that Viceroy is correct
You know, I peeked into the 'other' PB.com a little while ago. Goodness, what a civilised place that was compared to here.
SeanT is still there, ranting admittedly but still there. TSE is still got a raging..... well, he still likes Cameron. And the discussions are civil. All the talk is about how Osborne is the shoe in against May. He basically got to pick his opponent, and Theresa May, well she might've been okay as Home Secretary but as PM material she'll never beat the Boy Wonder.
Announcement of that Leadership contest is during Conference season and its widely expected Osborne will win, win handily and then go on to beat Corbyn in 2020 for his majority. Sure, Farage and UKIP are still a threat but three years later after the 52% Remain win, the country is moving on.
And Osborne's win next year will mean the end of Corbyn and hopefully the Labour party can get back on its feet again. There's talk Benn or Watson will take over, or even Ed make a return.
Of course, the Lib Dems are still struggling on 10%, but Farron can't have it all.
Interesting to see Tories who were never seen as part of the awkward squad voting against the government .
Keith Simpson never figured in anyone’s calculations . He’s never rebelled before in 22 years.
The genuine Conservatives are finally losing it with the nutters I guess
In all seriousness if I were a Tory MP (I never will be) even as a determined Leaver and someone who would always choose No Deal over Remain were that the final choice, I would have voted for this amendment. There are some very basic principles involved and suspending Parliament just to prevent them doing their job is so far from acceptable as to override even the risks that this might derail Brexit.
👍
That is my view
Despite HYFUD and Viceroy comments telling us to clear off to the Lib Dems we will remain and fight the ultras who think they can take us into some dark age and economic armageddon
BigG, I have never actually told you to clear off to the LDs, it is more Tories who opposed the Withdrawal Agreement, opposed No Deal and refuse to back Brexit Deal or No Deal that applied to
You have you know but I hope you will be cautious over suggesting fellow conservatives should leave the party. We have to be a broad church
The long term (medium term?) problem the Cons have with becoming BXP-lite, is that when Brexit proves to be an utter shitfest of economic decline, people will turn away. You wont find anyone who is prepared to say they wanted No Deal.
Without the wider base of support, the Tories will collapse.
The crossbreaks imply a three-way split in London with Labour narrowly second in Scotland.
Labour are going nowhere in Scotland no matter how much you spin it
Yep - if Labour is second in scotland with more than a few token seats I think the model is wrong
It only gives Labour 15% there with the Tories on 13%. LDs and Brexit Party are both on 10%. Not inclined to believe the London data - Labour, LibDem & Tories all in 26% - 28% range.
Don't take subsamples literally. They are not weighted.
The crossbreaks imply a three-way split in London with Labour narrowly second in Scotland.
Fwiw the actual predictions show 5 SNP gains from SLab.
Still, narrowly second, eh?
Is that just in London?
I know Lab are doing badly, but SNP making 5 gains from Lab in London is pretty impressive!
Probably. I am no nationalist or indeed a lefty but if I was and was given a choice between voting for Corbyn and his vile cohort of racists and Nicola Sturgeon there would at least a pause for thought, probably more than that.
Interesting to see Tories who were never seen as part of the awkward squad voting against the government .
Keith Simpson never figured in anyone’s calculations . He’s never rebelled before in 22 years.
The genuine Conservatives are finally losing it with the nutters I guess
In all seriousness if I were a Tory MP (I never will be) even as a determined Leaver and someone who would always choose No Deal over Remain were that the final choice, I would have voted for this amendment. There are some very basic principles involved and suspending Parliament just to prevent them doing their job is so far from acceptable as to override even the risks that this might derail Brexit.
👍
That is my view
Despite HYFUD and Viceroy comments telling us to clear off to the Lib Dems we will remain and fight the ultras who think they can take us into some dark age and economic armageddon
In the nicest possible way there are a number of you on here whom I struggle to understand why you/they are not in the LDs Those that I am thinking of really have views that are pretty well indistinguishable from mine (or am I in the wrong party?)
Probably TBP if you agree with Viceroy but the conservative party has to be a broad church
Oh BGNW I obviously worded that badly. I'm a LD. A shudder went down my back when I read that.
What I meant was we have an awful lot in in common as I do with a number of other moderate sensible Tories on here and I really don't feel like I am in the wrong party.
To quote HYFD however I am a 'lefty', something I don't think I have ever been called before.
Looks like I misunderstood you and did not know you are a LD.
I am more to the centre left of the conservative party and I do believe the coalition was an excellent government
However, I do support Brexit even though I voted remain and believe we should have accepted TM deal. I reject no deal under all circumstances and am pleased that my party's responsible mps voted today to stop the proroguing of the HOC
Interesting to see Tories who were never seen as part of the awkward squad voting against the government .
Keith Simpson never figured in anyone’s calculations . He’s never rebelled before in 22 years.
The genuine Conservatives are finally losing it with the nutters I guess
In all seriousness if I were a Tory MP (I never will be) even as a determined Leaver and someone who would always choose No Deal over Remain were that the final choice, I would have voted for this amendment. There are some very basic principles involved and suspending Parliament just to prevent them doing their job is so far from acceptable as to override even the risks that this might derail Brexit.
👍
That is my view
Despite HYFUD and Viceroy comments telling us to clear off to the Lib Dems we will remain and fight the ultras who think they can take us into some dark age and economic armageddon
In the nicest possible way there are a number of you on here whom I struggle to understand why you/they are not in the LDs Those that I am thinking of really have views that are pretty well indistinguishable from mine (or am I in the wrong party?)
Probably TBP if you agree with Viceroy but the conservative party has to be a broad church
Oh BGNW I obviously worded that badly. I'm a LD. A shudder went down my back when I read that.
What I meant was we have an awful lot in in common as I do with a number of other moderate sensible Tories on here and I really don't feel like I am in the wrong party.
To quote HYFD however I am a 'lefty', something I don't think I have ever been called before.
I think it is telling how comfortable the Cameron/Osborne brand of Tory was with the Coalition. They seemed much happier negotiating with Clegg and Alexander than they ever did with the ERG.
I think that is so true. I heard rumours of stuff Cameron/Osborne agreed with but couldn't do because they would not get it past the right of the party.
Being objective about it the Orange bookers had a very similar world view to them and some useful ideas whilst the ERG are a bunch of f****** nutters. Who would you rather speak to?
Good luck with that . Deselecting will see them resign the whip and the Tories are then totally screwed .
Nope, far better to get rid of the traitors and clean the stables to win back Brexit Party voters
You know what, I used to think you were just a deluded, gullible, intellectually challenged figure of fun. But when morons like you use phrases such as "traitors" for people that have given a life of service to their party and nation, I realise that you deserve nothing less than contempt. You are a worthless little worm with as much understanding as to what it means to be a Conservative as Jeremy Corbyn. You are completely beneath contempt.
People like me campaign week in and week out for the party and at weekends only for people like Grieve to reject what the vast majority of Tory members and voters want and what 17 million voted for and thus force thousands if not millions of our voters into the Brexit Party as a result.
Patronising, arrogant blowhards like you can lecture as much as you want but the sooner we are rid of the likes of you from the party the better, on that Viceroy is correct
You know, I peeked into the 'other' PB.com a little while ago. Goodness, what a civilised place that was compared to here.
SeanT is still there, ranting admittedly but still there. TSE is still got a raging..... well, he still likes Cameron. And the discussions are civil. All the talk is about how Osborne is the shoe in against May. He basically got to pick his opponent, and Theresa May, well she might've been okay as Home Secretary but as PM material she'll never beat the Boy Wonder.
Announcement of that Leadership contest is during Conference season and its widely expected Osborne will win, win handily and then go on to beat Corbyn in 2020 for his majority. Sure, Farage and UKIP are still a threat but three years later after the 52% Remain win, the country is moving on.
And Osborne's win next year will mean the end of Corbyn and hopefully the Labour party can get back on its feet again. There's talk Benn or Watson will take over, or even Ed make a return.
Of course, the Lib Dems are still struggling on 10%, but Farron can't have it all.
What a civilised place that place is!
LOL. Even as a leaver you make it sound very tempting.
Interesting to see Tories who were never seen as part of the awkward squad voting against the government .
Keith Simpson never figured in anyone’s calculations . He’s never rebelled before in 22 years.
The genuine Conservatives are finally losing it with the nutters I guess
In all seriousness if I were a Tory MP (I never will be) even as a determined Leaver and someone who would always choose No Deal over Remain were that the final choice, I would have voted for this amendment. There are some very basic principles involved and suspending Parliament just to prevent them doing their job is so far from acceptable as to override even the risks that this might derail Brexit.
👍
That is my view
Despite HYFUD and Viceroy comments telling us to clear off to the Lib Dems we will remain and fight the ultras who think they can take us into some dark age and economic armageddon
BigG, I have never actually told you to clear off to the LDs, it is more Tories who opposed the Withdrawal Agreement, opposed No Deal and refuse to back Brexit Deal or No Deal that applied to
You have you know but I hope you will be cautious over suggesting fellow conservatives should leave the party. We have to be a broad church
The long term (medium term?) problem the Cons have with becoming BXP-lite, is that when Brexit proves to be an utter shitfest of economic decline, people will turn away. You wont find anyone who is prepared to say they wanted No Deal.
Without the wider base of support, the Tories will collapse.
You may be correct but to be honest there are so many variables it is impossible to be certain of anything.
I understand labour peers are considering a vonc on Corbyn on monday.
It’s quite astonishing to see what has happened today .
Dominic Grieves original amendment which was much weaker than this scraped home by one vote .
The Lords then added an amendment , this was strengthened today and it passed by 41 votes !
All this could have been avoided by a simple no to suspend Parliament by Johnson . So in effect he’s forced this issue and the symbolism of such a rebellion amongst the Tories puts a marker down .
I really do think the Tories have badly misjudged this Leadership , there’s no chance Bozo can unite the party .
Gove for all his faults could have done that , the fact he remained loyal to May and did at least try to hold out an olive branch to the more pro EU wing of the party .
I just can’t see how this ends well.
Brexit cannot now be resolved by compromise. It could have been had T May gone down that route in 2016 but now both sides are too deeply entrenched. As Bozo said, it's do or die. And both his premiership and Brexit are going to die.
The thing is so many forecasts of what might happen have ended up not being realized . If someone had told me in early March we’d still be in the EU in the summer I wouldn’t have believed it .
Nothing would shock me anymore .
It's clear that parliament will not countenance no deal and it's also clear that the EU will not change May's deal in any meaningful way. Bozo has set his face so strongly against that deal that he could not credibly recommend anything resembling it to the HoC. So it will not be no deal, it will not be the only deal on offer, ergo it will be remain, probably disguised as another A50 extension initially.
What he can recommend is a long transition agreement (indefinite?) while the FTA is negotiated.
You know, I peeked into the 'other' PB.com a little while ago. Goodness, what a civilised place that was compared to here.
SeanT is still there, ranting admittedly but still there. TSE is still got a raging..... well, he still likes Cameron. And the discussions are civil. All the talk is about how Osborne is the shoe in against May. He basically got to pick his opponent, and Theresa May, well she might've been okay as Home Secretary but as PM material she'll never beat the Boy Wonder.
Announcement of that Leadership contest is during Conference season and its widely expected Osborne will win, win handily and then go on to beat Corbyn in 2020 for his majority. Sure, Farage and UKIP are still a threat but three years later after the 52% Remain win, the country is moving on.
And Osborne's win next year will mean the end of Corbyn and hopefully the Labour party can get back on its feet again. There's talk Benn or Watson will take over, or even Ed make a return.
Of course, the Lib Dems are still struggling on 10%, but Farron can't have it all.
What a civilised place that place is!
They could do a remake of the Man in the High Castle set in Brexitlandia 2030 where people can travel between that reality and a different world in which Remain won.
Interesting to see Tories who were never seen as part of the awkward squad voting against the government .
Keith Simpson never figured in anyone’s calculations . He’s never rebelled before in 22 years.
The genuine Conservatives are finally losing it with the nutters I guess
In all seriousness if I were a Tory MP (I never will be) even as a determined Leaver and someone who would always choose No Deal over Remain were that the final choice, I would have voted for this amendment. There are some very basic principles involved and suspending Parliament just to prevent them doing their job is so far from acceptable as to override even the risks that this might derail Brexit.
👍
That is my view
Despite HYFUD and Viceroy comments telling us to clear off to the Lib Dems we will remain and fight the ultras who think they can take us into some dark age and economic armageddon
In the nicest possible way there are a number of you on here whom I struggle to understand why you/they are not in the LDs Those that I am thinking of really have views that are pretty well indistinguishable from mine (or am I in the wrong party?)
Probably TBP if you agree with Viceroy but the conservative party has to be a broad church
Oh BGNW I obviously worded that badly. I'm a LD. A shudder went down my back when I read that.
What I meant was we have an awful lot in in common as I do with a number of other moderate sensible Tories on here and I really don't feel like I am in the wrong party.
To quote HYFD however I am a 'lefty', something I don't think I have ever been called before.
Looks like I misunderstood you and did not know you are a LD.
I am more to the centre left of the conservative party and I do believe the coalition was an excellent government
However, I do support Brexit even though I voted remain and believe we should have accepted TM deal. I reject no deal under all circumstances and am pleased that my party's responsible mps voted today to stop the proroguing of the HOC
The nutters will still try No Deal. No Deal needs a wooden stake through the heart....
Interesting to see Tories who were never seen as part of the awkward squad voting against the government .
Keith Simpson never figured in anyone’s calculations . He’s never rebelled before in 22 years.
The genuine Conservatives are finally losing it with the nutters I guess
In all seriousness if I were a Tory MP (I never will be) even as a determined Leaver and someone who would always choose No Deal over Remain were that the final choice, I would have voted for this amendment. There are some very basic principles involved and suspending Parliament just to prevent them doing their job is so far from acceptable as to override even the risks that this might derail Brexit.
👍
That is my view
Despite HYFUD and Viceroy comments telling us to clear off to the Lib Dems we will remain and fight the ultras who think they can take us into some dark age and economic armageddon
In the nicest possible way there are a number of you on here whom I struggle to understand why you/they are not in the LDs Those that I am thinking of really have views that are pretty well indistinguishable from mine (or am I in the wrong party?)
Probably TBP if you agree with Viceroy but the conservative party has to be a broad church
Oh BGNW I obviously worded that badly. I'm a LD. A shudder went down my back when I read that.
What I meant was we have an awful lot in in common as I do with a number of other moderate sensible Tories on here and I really don't feel like I am in the wrong party.
To quote HYFD however I am a 'lefty', something I don't think I have ever been called before.
Looks like I misunderstood you and did not know you are a LD.
I am more to the centre left of the conservative party and I do believe the coalition was an excellent government
However, I do support Brexit even though I voted remain and believe we should have accepted TM deal. I reject no deal under all circumstances and am pleased that my party's responsible mps voted today to stop the proroguing of the HOC
The nutters will still try No Deal. No Deal needs a wooden stake through the heart....
Today has seen a positive move towards that but it is also important that no deal's opposite, remain, is put to bed by passing a WDA
How much longer are they intending to drag out this Tory leadership campaign? It's been two candidates forever. The tail end of the current administration with Theresa pretending to be relevant and Hammond running around defecating on the carpets to spite the next incumbent is deeply unnecessary and life support needs to be shut off stat.
How much longer are they intending to drag out this Tory leadership campaign? It's been two candidates forever. The tail end of the current administration with Theresa pretending to be relevant and Hammond running around defecating on the carpets to spite the next incumbent is deeply unnecessary and life support needs to be shut off stat.
Result next wednesday but hustings have finished. It has gone on far too long
It’s quite astonishing to see what has happened today .
Dominic Grieves original amendment which was much weaker than this scraped home by one vote .
The Lords then added an amendment , this was strengthened today and it passed by 41 votes !
All this could have been avoided by a simple no to suspend Parliament by Johnson . So in effect he’s forced this issue and the symbolism of such a rebellion amongst the Tories puts a marker down .
I really do think the Tories have badly misjudged this Leadership , there’s no chance Bozo can unite the party .
Gove for all his faults could have done that , the fact he remained loyal to May and did at least try to hold out an olive branch to the more pro EU wing of the party .
I just can’t see how this ends well.
Brexit cannot now be resolved by compromise. It could have been had T May gone down that route in 2016 but now both sides are too deeply entrenched. As Bozo said, it's do or die. And both his premiership and Brexit are going to die.
The thing is so many forecasts of what might happen have ended up not being realized . If someone had told me in early March we’d still be in the EU in the summer I wouldn’t have believed it .
Nothing would shock me anymore .
It's clear that parliament will not countenance no deal and it's also clear that the EU will not change May's deal in any meaningful way. Bozo has set his face so strongly against that deal that he could not credibly recommend anything resembling it to the HoC. So it will not be no deal, it will not be the only deal on offer, ergo it will be remain, probably disguised as another A50 extension initially.
What he can recommend is a long transition agreement (indefinite?) while the FTA is negotiated.
So under May the ERG would have blocked such an agreement. If Boris can get them onside (possibly as "their" man negotiating the next steps), are there any other blockages?
How much longer are they intending to drag out this Tory leadership campaign? It's been two candidates forever. The tail end of the current administration with Theresa pretending to be relevant and Hammond running around defecating on the carpets to spite the next incumbent is deeply unnecessary and life support needs to be shut off stat.
Result next wednesday but hustings have finished. It has gone on far too long
Thank the Lord for that. What on earth was it in aid of? When there were plenty of candidates one could see the point.
The genuine Conservatives are finally losing it with the nutters I guess
In all seriousness if I were a Tory MP (I never will be) even as a determined Leaver and someone who would always choose No Deal over Remain were that the final choice, I would have voted for this amendment. There are some very basic principles involved and suspending Parliament just to prevent them doing their job is so far from acceptable as to override even the risks that this might derail Brexit.
👍
That is my view
Despite HYFUD and Viceroy comments telling us to clear off to the Lib Dems we will remain and fight the ultras who think they can take us into some dark age and economic armageddon
In the nicest possible way there are a number of you on here whom I struggle to understand why you/they are not in the LDs Those that I am thinking of really have views that are pretty well indistinguishable from mine (or am I in the wrong party?)
Probably TBP if you agree with Viceroy but the conservative party has to be a broad church
Oh BGNW I obviously worded that badly. I'm a LD. A shudder went down my back when I read that.
What I meant was we have an awful lot in in common as I do with a number of other moderate sensible Tories on here and I really don't feel like I am in the wrong party.
To quote HYFD however I am a 'lefty', something I don't think I have ever been called before.
Looks like I misunderstood you and did not know you are a LD.
I am more to the centre left of the conservative party and I do believe the coalition was an excellent government
However, I do support Brexit even though I voted remain and believe we should have accepted TM deal. I reject no deal under all circumstances and am pleased that my party's responsible mps voted today to stop the proroguing of the HOC
The nutters will still try No Deal. No Deal needs a wooden stake through the heart....
Today has seen a positive move towards that but it is also important that no deakl's opposite, remain, is put to bed by passing a WDA
I take issue with that Big_G... Remain got 48% of the EUref vote - how much did No Deal get?
Remain is only No Deal's opposite in the sense that good sense is utter madness's opposite.
Interesting to see Tories who were never seen as part of the awkward squad voting against the government .
Keith Simpson never figured in anyone’s calculations . He’s never rebelled before in 22 years.
The genuine Conservatives are finally losing it with the nutters I guess
In all seriousness if I were a Tory MP (I never will be) even as a determined Leaver and someone who would always choose No Deal over Remain were that the final choice, I would have voted for this amendment. There are some very basic principles involved and suspending Parliament just to prevent them doing their job is so far from acceptable as to override even the risks that this might derail Brexit.
👍
That is my view
Despite HYFUD and Viceroy comments telling us to clear off to the Lib Dems we will remain and fight the ultras who think they can take us into some dark age and economic armageddon
In the nicest possible way there are a number of you on here whom I struggle to understand why you/they are not in the LDs Those that I am thinking of really have views that are pretty well indistinguishable from mine (or am I in the wrong party?)
Probably TBP if you agree with Viceroy but the conservative party has to be a broad church
Oh BGNW I obviously worded that badly. I'm a LD. A shudder went down my back when I read that.
What I meant was we have an awful lot in in common as I do with a number of other moderate sensible Tories on here and I really don't feel like I am in the wrong party.
To quote HYFD however I am a 'lefty', something I don't think I have ever been called before.
Looks like I misunderstood you and did not know you are a LD.
I am more to the centre left of the conservative party and I do believe the coalition was an excellent government
However, I do support Brexit even though I voted remain and believe we should have accepted TM deal. I reject no deal under all circumstances and am pleased that my party's responsible mps voted today to stop the proroguing of the HOC
N problem. I obviously haven't made my mark here then even though I've been in and out since the very beginning
Agree on coalition.
We do differ on Brexit however. I think it has to be killed stone dead.
How much longer are they intending to drag out this Tory leadership campaign? It's been two candidates forever. The tail end of the current administration with Theresa pretending to be relevant and Hammond running around defecating on the carpets to spite the next incumbent is deeply unnecessary and life support needs to be shut off stat.
Result next wednesday but hustings have finished. It has gone on far too long
Thank the Lord for that. What on earth was it in aid of? When there were plenty of candidates one could see the point.
It’s quite astonishing to see what has happened today .
Dominic Grieves original amendment which was much weaker than this scraped home by one vote .
The Lords then added an amendment , this was strengthened today and it passed by 41 votes !
All this could have been avoided by a simple no to suspend Parliament by Johnson . So in effect he’s forced this issue and the symbolism of such a rebellion amongst the Tories puts a marker down .
I really do think the Tories have badly misjudged this Leadership , there’s no chance Bozo can unite the party .
Gove for all his faults could have done that , the fact he remained loyal to May and did at least try to hold out an olive branch to the more pro EU wing of the party .
I just can’t see how this ends well.
Brexit cannot now be resolved by compromise. It could have been had T May gone down that route in 2016 but now both sides are too deeply entrenched. As Bozo said, it's do or die. And both his premiership and Brexit are going to die.
The thing is so many forecasts of what might happen have ended up not being realized . If someone had told me in early March we’d still be in the EU in the summer I wouldn’t have believed it .
Nothing would shock me anymore .
It's clear that parliament will not countenance no deal and it's also clear that the EU will not change May's deal in any meaningful way. Bozo has set his face so strongly against that deal that he could not credibly recommend anything resembling it to the HoC. So it will not be no deal, it will not be the only deal on offer, ergo it will be remain, probably disguised as another A50 extension initially.
What he can recommend is a long transition agreement (indefinite?) while the FTA is negotiated.
So under May the ERG would have blocked such an agreement. If Boris can get them onside (possibly as "their" man negotiating the next steps), are there any other blockages?
Wasn't the DUPs stated plan to support May's Deal and then support a VoNC?
As Trump descends further into the gutter how does the future PM deal with this .
The disgusting scenes at his rally last night mean a UK PM being seen to be too close to Trump could seriously harm their appeal .
Indeed a simple re hash of the infamous Tory poster but this time with Bozo in Trumps pocket could suffice !
Anyone with a clue would be steering well clear of Trump.
What I think we will no longer be troubled with, at least for the next 2/6 years, is any nonsense about how the US and the UK are bound by common values and principles. All of that guff should be quietly forgotten but we still have strategic and defence interests in common which means it is not in our interests to fall out with the US completely. But we can certainly be a lot cooler about it.
As Trump descends further into the gutter how does the future PM deal with this .
The disgusting scenes at his rally last night mean a UK PM being seen to be too close to Trump could seriously harm their appeal .
Indeed a simple re hash of the infamous Tory poster but this time with Bozo in Trumps pocket could suffice !
Just when you think he cannot get any uglier he does just that.
Big test of the American people coming up next year.
Nothing is more important than that they prove up to it. I have to believe they will be.
I hope you’re right . Trump is a cancer not just on the USA but the world . Soon his baying mob will be shouting string her up . These are very dark times for the USA , and by extension the rest of us . Trump is enabling a new very ugly type of politics.
Interesting to see Tories who were never seen as part of the awkward squad voting against the government .
Keith Simpson never figured in anyone’s calculations . He’s never rebelled before in 22 years.
The genuine Conservatives are finally losing it with the nutters I guess
In all seriousness if I were a Tory MP (I never will be) even as a determined Leaver and someone who would always choose No Deal over Remain were that the final choice, I would have voted for this amendment. There are some very basic principles involved and suspending Parliament just to prevent them doing their job is so far from acceptable as to override even the risks that this might derail Brexit.
👍
That is my view
Despite HYFUD and Viceroy comments telling us to clear off to the Lib Dems we will remain and fight the ultras who think they can take us into some dark age and economic armageddon
In the nicest possible way there are a number of you on here whom I struggle to understand why you/they are not in the LDs Those that I am thinking of really have views that are pretty well indistinguishable from mine (or am I in the wrong party?)
Probably TBP if you agree with Viceroy but the conservative party has to be a broad church
Oh BGNW I obviously worded that badly. I'm a LD. A shudder went down my back when I read that.
What I meant was we have an awful lot in in common as I do with a number of other moderate sensible Tories on here and I really don't feel like I am in the wrong party.
To quote HYFD however I am a 'lefty', something I don't think I have ever been called before.
Looks like I misunderstood you and did not know you are a LD.
I am more to the centre left of the conservative party and I do believe the coalition was an excellent government
However, I do support Brexit even though I voted remain and believe we should have accepted TM deal. I reject no deal under all circumstances and am pleased that my party's responsible mps voted today to stop the proroguing of the HOC
N problem. I obviously haven't made my mark here then even though I've been in and out since the very beginning
Agree on coalition.
We do differ on Brexit however. I think it has to be killed stone dead.
And I respect your view and the Lib Dems are reaping the benefits of being honest, as are the SNP
Interesting to see Tories who were never seen as part of the awkward squad voting against the government .
Keith Simpson never figured in anyone’s calculations . He’s never rebelled before in 22 years.
The genuine Conservatives are finally losing it with the nutters I guess
In all seriousness if I were a Tory MP (I never will be) even as a determined Leaver and someone who would always choose No Deal over Remain were that the final choice, I would have voted for this amendment. There are some very basic principles involved and suspending Parliament just to prevent them doing their job is so far from acceptable as to override even the risks that this might derail Brexit.
👍
That is my view
Despite HYFUD and Viceroy comments telling us to clear off to the Lib Dems we will remain and fight the ultras who think they can take us into some dark age and economic armageddon
In the nicest possible way there are a number of you on here whom I struggle to understand why you/they are not in the LDs Those that I am thinking of really have views that are pretty well indistinguishable from mine (or am I in the wrong party?)
Probably TBP if you agree with Viceroy but the conservative party has to be a broad church
Oh BGNW I obviously worded that badly. I'm a LD. A shudder went down my back when I read that.
What I meant was we have an awful lot in in common as I do with a number of other moderate sensible Tories on here and I really don't feel like I am in the wrong party.
To quote HYFD however I am a 'lefty', something I don't think I have ever been called before.
I think it is telling how comfortable the Cameron/Osborne brand of Tory was with the Coalition. They seemed much happier negotiating with Clegg and Alexander than they ever did with the ERG.
I think that is so true. I heard rumours of stuff Cameron/Osborne agreed with but couldn't do because they would not get it past the right of the party.
Being objective about it the Orange bookers had a very similar world view to them and some useful ideas whilst the ERG are a bunch of f****** nutters. Who would you rather speak to?
I think I would class myself in the Orange Booker so that is a bit of a no brainer for me.
Yep. And get ready for the Brexit Party and the Tories pushing that so hard, while opposing each other, that they ruin any chance Brexit has of winning. Own worst enemy, the no deal Brexiteers (aka the Tories).
How much longer are they intending to drag out this Tory leadership campaign? It's been two candidates forever. The tail end of the current administration with Theresa pretending to be relevant and Hammond running around defecating on the carpets to spite the next incumbent is deeply unnecessary and life support needs to be shut off stat.
Result next wednesday but hustings have finished. It has gone on far too long
Thank the Lord for that. What on earth was it in aid of? When there were plenty of candidates one could see the point.
It might have been more tolerable had the result not been such a foregone conclusion. As it is the zombie government of May has staggered on to yet more defeats and little purpose.
Good luck with that . Deselecting will see them resign the whip and the Tories are then totally screwed .
Nope, far better to get rid of the traitors and clean the stables to win back Brexit Party voters
You know what, I used to think you were just a deluded, gullible, intellectually challenged figure of fun. But when morons like you use phrases such as "traitors" for people that have given a life of service to their party and nation, I realise that you deserve nothing less than contempt. You are a worthless little worm with as much understanding as to what it means to be a Conservative as Jeremy Corbyn. You are completely beneath contempt.
People like me campaign week in and week out for the party and at weekends only for people like Grieve to reject what the vast majority of Tory members and voters want and what 17 million voted for and thus force thousands if not millions of our voters into the Brexit Party as a result.
Patronising, arrogant blowhards like you can lecture as much as you want but the sooner we are rid of the likes of you from the party the better, on that Viceroy is correct
You know, I peeked into the 'other' PB.com a little while ago. Goodness, what a civilised place that was compared to here.
SeanT is still there, ranting admittedly but still there. TSE is still got a raging..... well, he still likes Cameron. And the discussions are civil. All the talk is about how Osborne is the shoe in against May. He basically got to pick his opponent, and Theresa May, well she might've been okay as Home Secretary but as PM material she'll never beat the Boy Wonder.
Announcement of that Leadership contest is during Conference season and its widely expected Osborne will win, win handily and then go on to beat Corbyn in 2020 for his majority. Sure, Farage and UKIP are still a threat but three years later after the 52% Remain win, the country is moving on.
And Osborne's win next year will mean the end of Corbyn and hopefully the Labour party can get back on its feet again. There's talk Benn or Watson will take over, or even Ed make a return.
Of course, the Lib Dems are still struggling on 10%, but Farron can't have it all.
What a civilised place that place is!
LOL. Even as a leaver you make it sound very tempting.
I prefer the Miliverse. But basically any version of reality would be better than this one.
The genuine Conservatives are finally losing it with the nutters I guess
In all seriousness if I were a Tory MP (I never will be.
👍
That is my view
Despite HYFUD and Viceroy comments telling us to clear off to the Lib Dems we will remain and fight the ultras who think they can take us into some dark age and economic armageddon
In the nicest possible way there are a number of you on here whom I struggle to understand why you/they are not in the LDs Those that I am thinking of really have views that are pretty well indistinguishable from mine (or am I in the wrong party?)
Probably TBP if you agree with Viceroy but the conservative party has to be a broad church
Oh BGNW I obviously worded that badly. I'm a LD. A shudder went down my back when I read that.
What I meant was we have an awful lot in in common as I do with a number of other moderate sensible Tories on here and I really don't feel like I am in the wrong party.
To quote HYFD however I am a 'lefty', something I don't think I have ever been called before.
Looks like I misunderstood you and did not know you are a LD.
I am more to the centre left of the conservative party and I do believe the coalition was an excellent government
However, I do support Brexit even though I voted remain and believe we should have accepted TM deal. I reject no deal under all circumstances and am pleased that my party's responsible mps voted today to stop the proroguing of the HOC
The nutters will still try No Deal. No Deal needs a wooden stake through the heart....
Today has seen a positive move towards that but it is also important that no deakl's opposite, remain, is put to bed by passing a WDA
I take issue with that Big_G... Remain got 48% of the EUref vote - how much did No Deal get?
Remain is only No Deal's opposite in the sense that good sense is utter madness's opposite.
And in the middle is upholding a democratic vote to leave the EU
The correct course is to leave with a deal and then the opponents to leave campaign to rejoin.
As Trump descends further into the gutter how does the future PM deal with this .
The disgusting scenes at his rally last night mean a UK PM being seen to be too close to Trump could seriously harm their appeal .
Indeed a simple re hash of the infamous Tory poster but this time with Bozo in Trumps pocket could suffice !
Just when you think he cannot get any uglier he does just that.
Big test of the American people coming up next year.
Nothing is more important than that they prove up to it. I have to believe they will be.
I hope you’re right . Trump is a cancer not just on the USA but the world . Soon his baying mob will be shouting string her up . These are very dark times for the USA , and by extension the rest of us . Trump is enabling a new very ugly type of politics.
Sadly, it's not as if we haven't been here before though...
Comments
https://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/1151880139183050752
I prefer the Facebook link, there's a little 1980s pop video wind machine in hair going on on that BBC pic (mind yo,u Northumbria / policing, I suppose, she could just be doing an unsuccessful Vera impersonation)
I'm.definitely developing a bit of a thing for Gillian Keegan, formidable the couple of times I've seen her on TV: a thinking man's Karen Brady. She's definitely welcome with Scott, TSE, Southam, Ali McGovern etc etc etc etc in our broad church centre party entryist takeover come the fateful day.
And with that nonsense, I depart.
It's possible that one of the "very little to half a chancers" graduates upwards, but none of them raised much money in Q2, so they can't buy exposure, and they are all on 1-4% in the polls, so a break-out (while possible) is unlikely.
https://www.publicwhip.org.uk/mp.php?id=uk.org.publicwhip/member/41773
Con 245
Lab 206
LD 69
BRX 68
Greens 1
SNP 40
PC 3
NI 18
https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/cgi-bin/usercode.py?CON=25&LAB=21&LIB=20&Brexit=19&Green=8&UKIP=2&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVBrexit=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=&SCOTLAB=&SCOTLIB=&SCOTBrexit=&SCOTGreen=&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2017base
If you're unable to watch the video here's a précis.
https://twitter.com/FLCHIEFMEDDO/status/1151881501694468098
Dominic Grieves original amendment which was much weaker than this scraped home by one vote .
The Lords then added an amendment , this was strengthened today and it passed by 41 votes !
All this could have been avoided by a simple no to suspend Parliament by Johnson . So in effect he’s forced this issue and the symbolism of such a rebellion amongst the Tories puts a marker down .
I really do think the Tories have badly misjudged this Leadership , there’s no chance Bozo can unite the party .
Gove for all his faults could have done that , the fact he remained loyal to May and did at least try to hold out an olive branch to the more pro EU wing of the party .
I just can’t see how this ends well.
“William Roper: “So, now you give the Devil the benefit of law!”
Sir Thomas More: “Yes! What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil?”
William Roper: “Yes, I'd cut down every law in England to do that!”
Sir Thomas More: “Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned 'round on you, where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country is planted thick with laws, from coast to coast, Man's laws, not God's! And if you cut them down, and you're just the man to do it, do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!”
As an aside I was very surprised when I read A Man For All Seasons as part of my English O Level, to find it was written in the 1950s. I had always believed to have been centuries older than that, so good was the writing.
Matthew Parris defends his belief that full citizenship comes gradually
Matthew Parris & Freddie Sayers"
https://unherd.com/2019/07/debate-whats-wrong-with-trumps-go-home-tweets/
As I understand it the ice rules are because of concerns about Listeria in smoked fish. Not too serious for most people, but can kill you if the infection gets out of hand.
Despite HYFUD and Viceroy comments telling us to clear off to the Lib Dems we will remain and fight the ultras who think they can take us into some dark age and economic armageddon
Buttigieg is funded for considerably longer, and even if it becomes clear he has no chance of winning, might stay in for the exposure (and the chance of a VP slot).
Anyone operating on fumes isn't going to persist for very long.
And in revenge for your forceful efforts to make an intellectual case for Radiohead, I give you this...
https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2019/07/bts-paved-the-way-army-fandom/592543/
Not inclined to believe the London data - Labour, LibDem & Tories all in 26% - 28% range.
Nothing would shock me anymore .
Erm... There is a recess next week for at least a month, so MPs can have a holiday.
Why are MPs already on family holidays?
Still, narrowly second, eh?
What I meant was we have an awful lot in in common as I do with a number of other moderate sensible Tories on here and I really don't feel like I am in the wrong party.
To quote HYFD however I am a 'lefty', something I don't think I have ever been called before.
Labour + LDs + SNP + PC + Greens = 319
Another ABB voter.... a lifelong Tory in her 70s..
SeanT is still there, ranting admittedly but still there. TSE is still got a raging..... well, he still likes Cameron. And the discussions are civil. All the talk is about how Osborne is the shoe in against May. He basically got to pick his opponent, and Theresa May, well she might've been okay as Home Secretary but as PM material she'll never beat the Boy Wonder.
Announcement of that Leadership contest is during Conference season and its widely expected Osborne will win, win handily and then go on to beat Corbyn in 2020 for his majority. Sure, Farage and UKIP are still a threat but three years later after the 52% Remain win, the country is moving on.
And Osborne's win next year will mean the end of Corbyn and hopefully the Labour party can get back on its feet again. There's talk Benn or Watson will take over, or even Ed make a return.
Of course, the Lib Dems are still struggling on 10%, but Farron can't have it all.
What a civilised place that place is!
Without the wider base of support, the Tories will collapse.
I am more to the centre left of the conservative party and I do believe the coalition was an excellent government
However, I do support Brexit even though I voted remain and believe we should have accepted TM deal. I reject no deal under all circumstances and am pleased that my party's responsible mps voted today to stop the proroguing of the HOC
The disgusting scenes at his rally last night mean a UK PM being seen to be too close to Trump could seriously harm their appeal .
Indeed a simple re hash of the infamous Tory poster but this time with Bozo in Trumps pocket could suffice !
I understand labour peers are considering a vonc on Corbyn on monday.
That should be fun
Big test of the American people coming up next year.
Nothing is more important than that they prove up to it. I have to believe they will be.
Remain is only No Deal's opposite in the sense that good sense is utter madness's opposite.
Agree on coalition.
We do differ on Brexit however. I think it has to be killed stone dead.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gruinard_Island
The correct course is to leave with a deal and then the opponents to leave campaign to rejoin.
To me that is democracy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism