> @tlg86 said: > > You're the first Remainer on here I've seen acknowledge this inconvenient fact. >So do you think votes in general should be weighted by how young a voter is?
Nico67's youth-weighting is good news for the Marine Le Pen and the Front National.
> @AndyJS said: > Are the youngest voters more pro-SNP than average? I seem to remember reading somewhere that it was more voters in the 30 to 45 age range.
I think I've read that whilst 16/17 year olds broke for Yes, they weren't as pro-independence as twenty somethings.
> @tlg86 said: > > @nico67 said: > > The big difference between Scottish Nationalism is it’s being driven by the younger generation . > > > > I would accept Brexit if the younger generation were the catalyst . As it is it’s not so I will always hate the damn thing . > > > > > > You're the first Remainer on here I've seen acknowledge this inconvenient fact. So do you think votes in general should be weighted by how young a voter is?
No, but there is something dysfunctional when the predominance of pensioners and the age-related difference in voting behaviour means that the pensioners are able to push through something damaging to people of working age.
> @tlg86 said: > > @nico67 said: > > The big difference between Scottish Nationalism is it’s being driven by the younger generation . > > > > I would accept Brexit if the younger generation were the catalyst . As it is it’s not so I will always hate the damn thing . > > > > > > You're the first Remainer on here I've seen acknowledge this inconvenient fact. So do you think votes in general should be weighted by how young a voter is?
Absolutely not . My point is that a change like this would have been much better if it had younger people behind it . Younger people generally see the world differently , they have been brought up with immigration , they are much more comfortable with that . I don’t want to see anything that narrows their horizons or freedoms .
> @viewcode said: > > So am I (I assume turnout modelling is a nightmare!). My headcanon says that BXP and LIB will have a higher turnout than we assume and LAB and CON less. And that will magnify the results. However those are figures I've pulled from my arsedrawer: I don't actually know. I am vexed... --------
This sounds like an election where we need Jack W's polling insight.
Quick question: you don't have to answer this (and I'll understand if you don't), but did you tell them/have you told them of your voting intention?
Why wouldn't you? If the personal reasons for choosing to vote a particular way are valid for you, they are valid explanation to others of your decision. Why on earth would one not be comfortable explaining one's vote and the reasons for it?
I think you have implied content in my question that it did not in fact possess.
> @IanB2 said: > > @tlg86 said: > > > @nico67 said: > > > The big difference between Scottish Nationalism is it’s being driven by the younger generation . > > > > > > I would accept Brexit if the younger generation were the catalyst . As it is it’s not so I will always hate the damn thing . > > > > > > > > > > You're the first Remainer on here I've seen acknowledge this inconvenient fact. So do you think votes in general should be weighted by how young a voter is? > > No, but there is something dysfunctional when the predominance of pensioners and the age-related difference in voting behaviour means that the pensioners are able to push through something damaging to people of working age.
How about only those in paid employment should be able to vote?
> @williamglenn said: > > @viewcode said: > > > > So am I (I assume turnout modelling is a nightmare!). My headcanon says that BXP and LIB will have a higher turnout than we assume and LAB and CON less. And that will magnify the results. However those are figures I've pulled from my arsedrawer: I don't actually know. I am vexed... > -------- > > This sounds like an election where we need Jack W's polling insight.
Those halcyon days of Jack's ARSE and Sunil's ELBOW...
> @YBarddCwsc said: > > @tlg86 said: > > > > You're the first Remainer on here I've seen acknowledge this inconvenient fact. >So do you think votes in general should be weighted by how young a voter is? > > Nico67's youth-weighting is good news for the Marine Le Pen and the Front National. > > https://tinyurl.com/y5juf2ke >
Good point . Older people in France are much more pro EU . But bear in mind many younger people wouldn’t have remembered Marine Le Pens father ! But she’s now no longer pushing an EU exit .
> > > The big difference between Scottish Nationalism is it’s being driven by the younger generation .
> > >
> > > I would accept Brexit if the younger generation were the catalyst . As it is it’s not so I will always hate the damn thing .
> > >
> > >
> >
> > You're the first Remainer on here I've seen acknowledge this inconvenient fact. So do you think votes in general should be weighted by how young a voter is?
>
> No, but there is something dysfunctional when the predominance of pensioners and the age-related difference in voting behaviour means that the pensioners are able to push through something damaging to people of working age.
How about only those in paid employment should be able to vote?
> @nico67 said: > > @tlg86 said: > > > @nico67 said: > > > The big difference between Scottish Nationalism is it’s being driven by the younger generation . > > > > > > I would accept Brexit if the younger generation were the catalyst . As it is it’s not so I will always hate the damn thing . > > > > > > > > > > You're the first Remainer on here I've seen acknowledge this inconvenient fact. So do you think votes in general should be weighted by how young a voter is? > > Absolutely not . My point is that a change like this would have been much better if it had younger people behind it . Younger people generally see the world differently , they have been brought up with immigration , they are much more comfortable with that . I don’t want to see anything that narrows their horizons or freedoms .
Implying the opinions of older people don't matter. I thought one of the principles of democracy was one man, one vote.
> @IanB2 said: > > @tlg86 said: > > > @nico67 said: > > > The big difference between Scottish Nationalism is it’s being driven by the younger generation . > > > > > > I would accept Brexit if the younger generation were the catalyst . As it is it’s not so I will always hate the damn thing . > > > > > > > > > > You're the first Remainer on here I've seen acknowledge this inconvenient fact. So do you think votes in general should be weighted by how young a voter is? > > No, but there is something dysfunctional when the predominance of pensioners and the age-related difference in voting behaviour means that the pensioners are able to push through something damaging to people of working age.
Not to mention the context of a growing elderly population, needing more health and social care and demanding triple locks on their income. The ways to achieve those aims would be a strong economy and immigration of young workers to balance the demographics!
A weak economy with little immigration will obviously limit the ability of the country to deal with its demographic challenges.
> @MaxPB said: > > @IanB2 said: > > > > @tlg86 said: > > > > > @nico67 said: > > > > > The big difference between Scottish Nationalism is it’s being driven by the younger generation . > > > > > > > > > > I would accept Brexit if the younger generation were the catalyst . As it is it’s not so I will always hate the damn thing . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You're the first Remainer on here I've seen acknowledge this inconvenient fact. So do you think votes in general should be weighted by how young a voter is? > > > > > > No, but there is something dysfunctional when the predominance of pensioners and the age-related difference in voting behaviour means that the pensioners are able to push through something damaging to people of working age. > > > > How about only those in paid employment should be able to vote? > > How about only those who pay net tax?
Can it not be problematic and dysfunctional without there being an obvious quick fix?
I wouldn’t kiss you if you were the last man on Earth!” It’s one of the great cliches of romance novels that any woman saying this will, in due course, be doing just that. Maybe it’ll be a hate-kiss in the hayloft above the stables; maybe it’ll be a momentary lapse just after he’s rescued her from a predatory ranch hand. But you can absolutely bet on it: she’s going to be “sharing herself” with this man within 100 pages. The Tory parliamentary party’s relationship with Boris Johnson is the hardcore porn version of this.
For so long, you couldn’t move for Conservative MPs saying they’d leave the party if Johnson ever became leader, that they wouldn’t vote for him in a million years, that he didn’t have a chance of getting anywhere near their special place. One hundred pages deeper into the shitshow, where are we on these holdouts?
Well, weirdo Fleet Street convention demands I describe this as a family newspaper. So I can’t even begin to detail the stuff the Conservative party are probably going to do for Johnson – and, indeed, the stuff they’re going to let him do to them. But I can tell you that while he’s doing it, they will not be protesting, but instead moaning “DO ME UP THE WTO! PERVERT ME LIKE THE FACTS IN YOUR CHURCHILL BIOGRAPHY! IMPREGNATE ME WITH YOUR O-LEVEL LATIN!” The clear message you should be getting from “the party of business” is: buy shares in lube today.
> @nico67 said: > Far too many politicians have peddled the left behind guff . > > Just call a spade a spade . They just wanted someone to blame for their crap lives so immigrants were the easy target delivered on a plate by the hatemonger Farage . > > In the meantime non EU migration has gone through the roof whilst EU nationals leave in droves . > > Amazing how quiet Farage and co have been on this . Brits lose their freedom of movement rights and for what !
I guess you don't understand the irony of using the phrase 'Just call a spade a spade'.
> @noneoftheabove said: > > @IanB2 said: > > > @tlg86 said: > > > > @nico67 said: > > > > The big difference between Scottish Nationalism is it’s being driven by the younger generation . > > > > > > > > I would accept Brexit if the younger generation were the catalyst . As it is it’s not so I will always hate the damn thing . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You're the first Remainer on here I've seen acknowledge this inconvenient fact. So do you think votes in general should be weighted by how young a voter is? > > > > No, but there is something dysfunctional when the predominance of pensioners and the age-related difference in voting behaviour means that the pensioners are able to push through something damaging to people of working age. > > Not to mention the context of a growing elderly population, needing more health and social care and demanding triple locks on their income. The ways to achieve those aims would be a strong economy and immigration of young workers to balance the demographics! > > A weak economy with little immigration will obviously limit the ability of the country to deal with its demographic challenges.
Yes , no one wants to address this issue . The worker pensioner ratio is now 3 to 1 this is not sustainable . Hard choices need to be made . No party wants to deal with it , May tried and it blew up in her face with the social care policy . Taxes have to go up to pay for pensions and social care unless people want to be working into their 70s.
> @felix said: > > @nico67 said: > > Far too many politicians have peddled the left behind guff . > > > > Just call a spade a spade . They just wanted someone to blame for their crap lives so immigrants were the easy target delivered on a plate by the hatemonger Farage . > > > > In the meantime non EU migration has gone through the roof whilst EU nationals leave in droves . > > > > Amazing how quiet Farage and co have been on this . Brits lose their freedom of movement rights and for what ! > > I guess you don't understand the irony of using the phrase 'Just call a spade a spade'. > > Hey ho!
> @nico67 said: > > @felix said: > > > @nico67 said: > > > Far too many politicians have peddled the left behind guff . > > > > > > Just call a spade a spade . They just wanted someone to blame for their crap lives so immigrants were the easy target delivered on a plate by the hatemonger Farage . > > > > > > In the meantime non EU migration has gone through the roof whilst EU nationals leave in droves . > > > > > > Amazing how quiet Farage and co have been on this . Brits lose their freedom of movement rights and for what ! > > > > I guess you don't understand the irony of using the phrase 'Just call a spade a spade'. > > > > Hey ho! > > Lmao . Yes just realized , oops!
> @IanB2 said: > > @tlg86 said: > > > @nico67 said: > > > The big difference between Scottish Nationalism is it’s being driven by the younger generation . > > > > > > I would accept Brexit if the younger generation were the catalyst . As it is it’s not so I will always hate the damn thing . > > > > > > > > > > You're the first Remainer on here I've seen acknowledge this inconvenient fact. So do you think votes in general should be weighted by how young a voter is? > > No, but there is something dysfunctional when the predominance of pensioners and the age-related difference in voting behaviour means that the pensioners are able to push through something damaging to people of working age.
Far better to scrap this democracy malarkey when it produces results you personally don't like.
> @nico67 said: > The big difference between Scottish Nationalism is it’s being driven by the younger generation . > > I would accept Brexit if the younger generation were the catalyst . As it is it’s not so I will always hate the damn thing . > >
It would make no difference to the merits of the argument if young people tended to favour Brexit, and older people tended to oppose it.
The average 20 year old is neither more nor less virtuous or wise than the average 60 year old.
> @AndyJS said: > Are the youngest voters more pro-SNP than average? I seem to remember reading somewhere that it was more voters in the 30 to 45 age range.
________
Slightly so. With two precise exceptions, there is no big demographic propensity to support our oppose independence for Scotland. All of the demographics were in the 60/40 band and most were in the 55/45 band. The exceptions were the over 65 and people born outside Scotland, who turned out very heavily for No.
> @noneoftheabove said: > > @IanB2 said: > > > @tlg86 said: > > > > @nico67 said: > > > > The big difference between Scottish Nationalism is it’s being driven by the younger generation . > > > > > > > > I would accept Brexit if the younger generation were the catalyst . As it is it’s not so I will always hate the damn thing . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You're the first Remainer on here I've seen acknowledge this inconvenient fact. So do you think votes in general should be weighted by how young a voter is? > > > > No, but there is something dysfunctional when the predominance of pensioners and the age-related difference in voting behaviour means that the pensioners are able to push through something damaging to people of working age. > > Not to mention the context of a growing elderly population, needing more health and social care and demanding triple locks on their income. The ways to achieve those aims would be a strong economy and immigration of young workers to balance the demographics! > > A weak economy with little immigration will obviously limit the ability of the country to deal with its demographic challenges.
Not all immigration is the same.
Increasing the wrong sort of immigration increases the burden on the state.
> @nico67 said: > > @felix said: > > > @nico67 said: > > > Far too many politicians have peddled the left behind guff . > > > > > > Just call a spade a spade . They just wanted someone to blame for their crap lives so immigrants were the easy target delivered on a plate by the hatemonger Farage . > > > > > > In the meantime non EU migration has gone through the roof whilst EU nationals leave in droves . > > > > > > Amazing how quiet Farage and co have been on this . Brits lose their freedom of movement rights and for what ! > > > > I guess you don't understand the irony of using the phrase 'Just call a spade a spade'. > > > > Hey ho! > > Lmao . Yes just realized , oops!
Maybe every time you refer to 'ag'e try substituting 'black' or 'women'. It might help you.
> @felix said: > > @IanB2 said: > > > @tlg86 said: > > > > @nico67 said: > > > > The big difference between Scottish Nationalism is it’s being driven by the younger generation . > > > > > > > > I would accept Brexit if the younger generation were the catalyst . As it is it’s not so I will always hate the damn thing . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You're the first Remainer on here I've seen acknowledge this inconvenient fact. So do you think votes in general should be weighted by how young a voter is? > > > > No, but there is something dysfunctional when the predominance of pensioners and the age-related difference in voting behaviour means that the pensioners are able to push through something damaging to people of working age. > > Far better to scrap this democracy malarkey when it produces results you personally don't li
So everyone should back the parliamentary gridlock we have without dissent as that is what the UK democratically voted for? Of course in a democracy people have to argue against previous votes.
I voted LEAVE, because I think reform of the EU is very difficult. I could have been persuaded otherwise, but no-one seemed very interested in doing so. I was, in my own sweet way, trying to be helpful to Remainers by suggesting the kind of policies it might be worth thinking about, if the Referendum is ever re-run. But it looks as though the Remain plan is to tell the voters that they are xenophobes, that they can wipe their own arses, that they live in uneconomic dunghills, and that they don't care about their own grandchildren. It's a plan ... but I do wonder whether it will work.
I have 9 Grand Kids and voted Leave. If there were a No Deal vs Revoke I would vote No Deal Remoaners pushing us to extreme options
Confession time: I voted leave. I have 5 grandchildren and close relatives in Europe and of various European nationalities. I am retired, spent several years living and working in Europe, paying taxes to three different continental European countries. I own property in continental Europe. I have had significant research funding from the EU. Leaving the EU will be costly for me and my family. However there has never been a clearer political decision for me than that presented in the referendum.
Not all immigration is the same. Increasing the wrong sort of immigration increases the burden on the state.
So we need the following numbers: * What were the numbers of migrants into the UK before Brexit (presumably pa) * What were the numbers of burdensome migrants into the UK before Brexit * What were the numbers of migrants into the UK after Brexit (presumably pa) * What were the numbers of burdensome migrants into the UK after Brexit * What numbers for those categories would you consider acceptable?
When we have those numbers we can deduce numbers, percentages and thresholds and reach a conclusion.
> > > Yes the large majority of pensioners that helped deliver Brexit and robbing their grandchildren of freedom of movement will now try to force a no deal to just stick the knife in .
> > >
> > > One wonders , all that guff about grannie and grand dad would do anything for the grandkids. Really!
> > >
> > >
> > I don't think people were motivated to vote by a desire to cause problems for their grandchildren.
> >
> > That's one of the worst arguments that emerged from this debate.
> >
>
> Why . Clearly their grandchildren wanted to stay , and grannie and grand pa didn’t take into account that . Some did obviously , I saw a few pensioners interviewed who said they didn’t want to narrow the opportunities and freedoms of their grand kids and voted Remain. The Leave pensioners can wipe their own arses as far as I’m concerned as they told those who work in social care to take a hike .
>
Oddly enough, some older people may have different political views to some people who are younger than they are.
That doesn't mean that they are motivated to vote by a desire to cause them problems.
I vote differently to you. That doesn't mean that I'm trying to harm you, or vice versa.
The point is, perhaps, that Brexit is about the long term future of the nation in a way which a general election simply isn’t. When there is such a massive disparity in the way the young and the old voted, it’s not entirely surprising that those who are going to have to live longest with the results might resent it.
Whether that is democratic or not, it further explains the divisiveness of the issue.
> @another_richard said: > > @noneoftheabove said: > > > @IanB2 said: > > > > @tlg86 said: > > > > > @nico67 said: > > > > > The big difference between Scottish Nationalism is it’s being driven by the younger generation . > > > > > > > > > > I would accept Brexit if the younger generation were the catalyst . As it is it’s not so I will always hate the damn thing . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You're the first Remainer on here I've seen acknowledge this inconvenient fact. So do you think votes in general should be weighted by how young a voter is? > > > > > > No, but there is something dysfunctional when the predominance of pensioners and the age-related difference in voting behaviour means that the pensioners are able to push through something damaging to people of working age. > > > > Not to mention the context of a growing elderly population, needing more health and social care and demanding triple locks on their income. The ways to achieve those aims would be a strong economy and immigration of young workers to balance the demographics! > > > > A weak economy with little immigration will obviously limit the ability of the country to deal with its demographic challenges. > > Not all immigration is the same. > > Increasing the wrong sort of immigration increases the burden on the state.
Of course that is true and there is nothing about leave that has to define how much immigration we have, but those Tories who have campaigned alongside an anti-immigration agenda will find it much harder to pivot back to immigration is good for the Singapore on Thames economy than they imagine.
And "high quality" immigrants will move (already have moved) the UK down their list of preferred choices because of Brexit and the feeling of being less welcome here.
I presume being the pragmatic and principled souls they are, the Conservatives will enthusiastically support everything Boris Johnson says or does until he loses them an election or looks like he will lose them an election.
> @stodge said: > Afternoon all > > I presume being the pragmatic and principled souls they are, the Conservatives will enthusiastically support everything Boris Johnson says or does until he loses them an election or looks like he will lose them an election.
Survation today has the Tories under Boris tied with Corbyn Labour, under May though they currently trail Labour by 7% with the Brexit Party on 21%.
While as Australia proved today it is not polls that decide elections but ballots, elections are never over until they are all counted!
> @nico67 said: > > @YBarddCwsc said: > > > @tlg86 said: > > > > > > You're the first Remainer on here I've seen acknowledge this inconvenient fact. >So do you think votes in general should be weighted by how young a voter is? > > > > Nico67's youth-weighting is good news for the Marine Le Pen and the Front National. > > > > https://tinyurl.com/y5juf2ke > > > > Good point . Older people in France are much more pro EU . But bear in mind many younger people wouldn’t have remembered Marine Le Pens father ! But she’s now no longer pushing an EU exit .
Older people in France voted for the conservative Fillon in 2017, then Macron in the runoff, it was the middle aged who were most pro Le Pen
> @tlg86 said: > > @AndyJS said: > > Are the youngest voters more pro-SNP than average? I seem to remember reading somewhere that it was more voters in the 30 to 45 age range. > > I think I've read that whilst 16/17 year olds broke for Yes, they weren't as pro-independence as twenty somethings.
According to Ashcroft 16 to 24 year olds were only 51% to 49% Yes, 25 to 54 year olds had a higher Yes vote than the youngest Scots.
Survation today has the Tories under Boris tied with Corbyn Labour, under May though they currently trail Labour by 7% with the Brexit Party on 21%.
While as Australia proved today it is not polls that decide elections but ballots, elections are never over until they are all counted!
Of course but this is a political betting site and you can't blame people who choose to wager based on the information provided. It's no different than backing horses or dogs in all honesty. There's form and there's what happens on the track.
The other side is everyone is loyal to a leader who is successful and keeps them in employment. Both Thatcher and now May have fallen victim simply because the Party realised defeat was inevitable.
I think Morrison's win was as much due to Shorten's failure. You cited the analogy of Major and Kinnock and we all know what happened in 1997 when Major faced a new and much more politically savvy Labour leader after a long period of Conservative rule.
I'd be surprised if Morrison was the Coalition candidate next time - mid term unpopularity may lead to a "spill" as they call it. As to who succeeds Shorten and where they take Labor, I don't know.
Crosby also ran the 2015 Tory campaign, May largely ignored him in 2017 to her cost, Boris will have him back if he is leader next time (Crosby also ran the Boris Mayoral campaigns)
> Are the youngest voters more pro-SNP than average? I seem to remember reading somewhere that it was more voters in the 30 to 45 age range.
________
Slightly so. With two precise exceptions, there is no big demographic propensity to support our oppose independence for Scotland. All of the demographics were in the 60/40 band and most were in the 55/45 band. The exceptions were the over 65 and people born outside Scotland, who turned out very heavily for No.
> > Far too many politicians have peddled the left behind guff .
> >
> > Just call a spade a spade . They just wanted someone to blame for their crap lives so immigrants were the easy target delivered on a plate by the hatemonger Farage .
> >
> > In the meantime non EU migration has gone through the roof whilst EU nationals leave in droves .
> >
> > Amazing how quiet Farage and co have been on this . Brits lose their freedom of movement rights and for what !
>
> I guess you don't understand the irony of using the phrase 'Just call a spade a spade'.
>
> Hey ho!
Lmao . Yes just realized , oops!
Only a moron would link that to something racist , what an absolute balloon. A spade is a digging implement you ignorant ar*ewipe.
Looking at the Australian election totals it seems Labor won most seats in New South Wales, Victoria, the Northern Territory, the ACT, South Australia and were tied with the Coalition in Tasmania.
Morrison won the election as the Coalition won 11 seats to 5 for Labor in Western Australia and an astonishing 23 seats to just 5 for Labor in Queensland.
It seems Australia really is a divided nation now and with its 2 largest cities, Sydney and Melbourne in New South Wales and Victoria respectively it follows much of the rest of the developed world in a left/liberal urban big city v conservative rural and small town divide
> @noneoftheabove said: > > @another_richard said: > > > @noneoftheabove said: > > > > @IanB2 said: > > > > > @tlg86 said: > > > > > > @nico67 said: > > > > > > The big difference between Scottish Nationalism is it’s being driven by the younger generation . > > > > > > > > > > > > I would accept Brexit if the younger generation were the catalyst . As it is it’s not so I will always hate the damn thing . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You're the first Remainer on here I've seen acknowledge this inconvenient fact. So do you think votes in general should be weighted by how young a voter is? > > > > > > > > No, but there is something dysfunctional when the predominance of pensioners and the age-related difference in voting behaviour means that the pensioners are able to push through something damaging to people of working age. > > > > > > Not to mention the context of a growing elderly population, needing more health and social care and demanding triple locks on their income. The ways to achieve those aims would be a strong economy and immigration of young workers to balance the demographics! > > > > > > A weak economy with little immigration will obviously limit the ability of the country to deal with its demographic challenges. > > > > Not all immigration is the same. > > > > Increasing the wrong sort of immigration increases the burden on the state. > > Of course that is true and there is nothing about leave that has to define how much immigration we have, but those Tories who have campaigned alongside an anti-immigration agenda will find it much harder to pivot back to immigration is good for the Singapore on Thames economy than they imagine. > > And "high quality" immigrants will move (already have moved) the UK down their list of preferred choices because of Brexit and the feeling of being less welcome here.
Before they pivot back they will need to do something about the low quality immigration.
And I wonder how much of a negative the low quality immigration is in attempts to attract high quality immigration.
> @tlg86 said: > > @isam said: > > https://twitter.com/juliamacfarlane/status/1129791148187197440 > > > > > > > > Brilliant. > > > > Except we wont have left in 2020. Boris will still be "negotiating". > > > > And tonight’s hosts aren’t in the EU either > > That's one way to get Labour to support Brexit. Get Israel to join.
A celebration of European culture and identity where the majority of winners in the last decade have been countries that aren't EU members!
And the second favourite to win tonight is Australia and the contest is being held in a country that isn't actually in Europe either!
Cos the EU isn't of course Europe - it doesn't even cover most of the European landmass - and Eurovision goes way beyond that!
According to the BBC, Queensland rejected Labor not despite it being a coal mining area but because it is a coal mining area. Labor's identification with the workers is a relic of bygone days. It is now the party of the right-on bourgeoisie.
> @stodge said: > Survation today has the Tories under Boris tied with Corbyn Labour, under May though they currently trail Labour by 7% with the Brexit Party on 21%. > > While as Australia proved today it is not polls that decide elections but ballots, elections are never over until they are all counted! > > Of course but this is a political betting site and you can't blame people who choose to wager based on the information provided. It's no different than backing horses or dogs in all honesty. There's form and there's what happens on the track. > > The other side is everyone is loyal to a leader who is successful and keeps them in employment. Both Thatcher and now May have fallen victim simply because the Party realised defeat was inevitable. > > I think Morrison's win was as much due to Shorten's failure. You cited the analogy of Major and Kinnock and we all know what happened in 1997 when Major faced a new and much more politically savvy Labour leader after a long period of Conservative rule. > > I'd be surprised if Morrison was the Coalition candidate next time - mid term unpopularity may lead to a "spill" as they call it. As to who succeeds Shorten and where they take Labor, I don't know.
It will likely be either the more leftwing Corbynite populist Anthony Albanese or if they have more sense the more telegenic centrist Tanya Pilbersek
> @geoffw said: > According to the BBC, Queensland rejected Labor not despite it being a coal mining area but because it is a coal mining area. > Labor's identification with the workers is a relic of bygone days. It is now the party of the right-on bourgeoisie.
Other than snippets on here, I haven't followed the Australian election. I did however here a clip from Shorten where he was talking about climate change and I thought that was odd thing to talk about at the end of an election campaign.
It has only had to be called WTO Brexit as a reminder that there will continue to be trade, and rules that govern it, because of the deliberately misleading language constantly used by Remainers about 'cutting ourselves off', as if we have to be in the EU to continue trading with the continent.
In order to have a preferential relationship with the continent, we need to have a preferential relationship with the EU.
I don't want a preferential relationship with them. I would expect reciprocal low, or no tariffs because it would benefit both parties, but if it didn't happen it would be no cause for anguish. The clothes I'm wearing are mostly from India. The phone I'm on is Japanese (goodness knows where its actually made but its outside the EU). Find a good product, market it well, offer it at the right price. That's how to prosper. Needing to be part of a vast bureaucracy in order to get a few pennies off a pound of butter is utterly absurd.
Some people prefer quality from Germany , style from Italy , etc rather than cheap tat from asia
I'm sure they do, and that wasn't my point. In fact you make my point for me. People are prepared to pay a little more for their Italian threads and German cars, because they have a great reputation. That's what we need. All part of a customs union and single market does is take a few pennies off the price. It's beside the point.
Comments
>
> You're the first Remainer on here I've seen acknowledge this inconvenient fact. >So do you think votes in general should be weighted by how young a voter is?
Nico67's youth-weighting is good news for the Marine Le Pen and the Front National.
https://tinyurl.com/y5juf2ke
> Are the youngest voters more pro-SNP than average? I seem to remember reading somewhere that it was more voters in the 30 to 45 age range.
I think I've read that whilst 16/17 year olds broke for Yes, they weren't as pro-independence as twenty somethings.
> > @nico67 said:
> > The big difference between Scottish Nationalism is it’s being driven by the younger generation .
> >
> > I would accept Brexit if the younger generation were the catalyst . As it is it’s not so I will always hate the damn thing .
> >
> >
>
> You're the first Remainer on here I've seen acknowledge this inconvenient fact. So do you think votes in general should be weighted by how young a voter is?
No, but there is something dysfunctional when the predominance of pensioners and the age-related difference in voting behaviour means that the pensioners are able to push through something damaging to people of working age.
> > @nico67 said:
> > The big difference between Scottish Nationalism is it’s being driven by the younger generation .
> >
> > I would accept Brexit if the younger generation were the catalyst . As it is it’s not so I will always hate the damn thing .
> >
> >
>
> You're the first Remainer on here I've seen acknowledge this inconvenient fact. So do you think votes in general should be weighted by how young a voter is?
Absolutely not . My point is that a change like this would have been much better if it had younger people behind it . Younger people generally see the world differently , they have been brought up with immigration , they are much more comfortable with that . I don’t want to see anything that narrows their horizons or freedoms .
>
> So am I (I assume turnout modelling is a nightmare!). My headcanon says that BXP and LIB will have a higher turnout than we assume and LAB and CON less. And that will magnify the results. However those are figures I've pulled from my arsedrawer: I don't actually know. I am vexed...
--------
This sounds like an election where we need Jack W's polling insight.
> > @tlg86 said:
> > > @nico67 said:
> > > The big difference between Scottish Nationalism is it’s being driven by the younger generation .
> > >
> > > I would accept Brexit if the younger generation were the catalyst . As it is it’s not so I will always hate the damn thing .
> > >
> > >
> >
> > You're the first Remainer on here I've seen acknowledge this inconvenient fact. So do you think votes in general should be weighted by how young a voter is?
>
> No, but there is something dysfunctional when the predominance of pensioners and the age-related difference in voting behaviour means that the pensioners are able to push through something damaging to people of working age.
How about only those in paid employment should be able to vote?
> > @viewcode said:
> >
> > So am I (I assume turnout modelling is a nightmare!). My headcanon says that BXP and LIB will have a higher turnout than we assume and LAB and CON less. And that will magnify the results. However those are figures I've pulled from my arsedrawer: I don't actually know. I am vexed...
> --------
>
> This sounds like an election where we need Jack W's polling insight.
Those halcyon days of Jack's ARSE and Sunil's ELBOW...
> > @tlg86 said:
> >
> > You're the first Remainer on here I've seen acknowledge this inconvenient fact. >So do you think votes in general should be weighted by how young a voter is?
>
> Nico67's youth-weighting is good news for the Marine Le Pen and the Front National.
>
> https://tinyurl.com/y5juf2ke
>
Good point . Older people in France are much more pro EU . But bear in mind many younger people wouldn’t have remembered Marine Le Pens father ! But she’s now no longer pushing an EU exit .
> > @tlg86 said:
> > > @nico67 said:
> > > The big difference between Scottish Nationalism is it’s being driven by the younger generation .
> > >
> > > I would accept Brexit if the younger generation were the catalyst . As it is it’s not so I will always hate the damn thing .
> > >
> > >
> >
> > You're the first Remainer on here I've seen acknowledge this inconvenient fact. So do you think votes in general should be weighted by how young a voter is?
>
> Absolutely not . My point is that a change like this would have been much better if it had younger people behind it . Younger people generally see the world differently , they have been brought up with immigration , they are much more comfortable with that . I don’t want to see anything that narrows their horizons or freedoms .
Implying the opinions of older people don't matter. I thought one of the principles of democracy was one man, one vote.
https://twitter.com/BethRigby/status/1129780273988689920
> > @tlg86 said:
> > > @nico67 said:
> > > The big difference between Scottish Nationalism is it’s being driven by the younger generation .
> > >
> > > I would accept Brexit if the younger generation were the catalyst . As it is it’s not so I will always hate the damn thing .
> > >
> > >
> >
> > You're the first Remainer on here I've seen acknowledge this inconvenient fact. So do you think votes in general should be weighted by how young a voter is?
>
> No, but there is something dysfunctional when the predominance of pensioners and the age-related difference in voting behaviour means that the pensioners are able to push through something damaging to people of working age.
Not to mention the context of a growing elderly population, needing more health and social care and demanding triple locks on their income. The ways to achieve those aims would be a strong economy and immigration of young workers to balance the demographics!
A weak economy with little immigration will obviously limit the ability of the country to deal with its demographic challenges.
https://twitter.com/greg_jenner/status/1129719114241462272
> Yes, this is clearly a country that could survive/thrive with no deal...
>
> https://twitter.com/greg_jenner/status/1129719114241462272
How very petty. Why don't they debate him rather than just throwing ice creams at him?
> > @IanB2 said:
>
> > > @tlg86 said:
>
> > > > @nico67 said:
>
> > > > The big difference between Scottish Nationalism is it’s being driven by the younger generation .
>
> > > >
>
> > > > I would accept Brexit if the younger generation were the catalyst . As it is it’s not so I will always hate the damn thing .
>
> > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > >
>
> > > You're the first Remainer on here I've seen acknowledge this inconvenient fact. So do you think votes in general should be weighted by how young a voter is?
>
> >
>
> > No, but there is something dysfunctional when the predominance of pensioners and the age-related difference in voting behaviour means that the pensioners are able to push through something damaging to people of working age.
>
>
>
> How about only those in paid employment should be able to vote?
>
> How about only those who pay net tax?
Can it not be problematic and dysfunctional without there being an obvious quick fix?
For so long, you couldn’t move for Conservative MPs saying they’d leave the party if Johnson ever became leader, that they wouldn’t vote for him in a million years, that he didn’t have a chance of getting anywhere near their special place. One hundred pages deeper into the shitshow, where are we on these holdouts?
Well, weirdo Fleet Street convention demands I describe this as a family newspaper. So I can’t even begin to detail the stuff the Conservative party are probably going to do for Johnson – and, indeed, the stuff they’re going to let him do to them. But I can tell you that while he’s doing it, they will not be protesting, but instead moaning “DO ME UP THE WTO! PERVERT ME LIKE THE FACTS IN YOUR CHURCHILL BIOGRAPHY! IMPREGNATE ME WITH YOUR O-LEVEL LATIN!” The clear message you should be getting from “the party of business” is: buy shares in lube today.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/may/17/tory-boris-johnson-leadership-candidate
> Far too many politicians have peddled the left behind guff .
>
> Just call a spade a spade . They just wanted someone to blame for their crap lives so immigrants were the easy target delivered on a plate by the hatemonger Farage .
>
> In the meantime non EU migration has gone through the roof whilst EU nationals leave in droves .
>
> Amazing how quiet Farage and co have been on this . Brits lose their freedom of movement rights and for what !
I guess you don't understand the irony of using the phrase 'Just call a spade a spade'.
Hey ho!
> > @IanB2 said:
> > > @tlg86 said:
> > > > @nico67 said:
> > > > The big difference between Scottish Nationalism is it’s being driven by the younger generation .
> > > >
> > > > I would accept Brexit if the younger generation were the catalyst . As it is it’s not so I will always hate the damn thing .
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > You're the first Remainer on here I've seen acknowledge this inconvenient fact. So do you think votes in general should be weighted by how young a voter is?
> >
> > No, but there is something dysfunctional when the predominance of pensioners and the age-related difference in voting behaviour means that the pensioners are able to push through something damaging to people of working age.
>
> Not to mention the context of a growing elderly population, needing more health and social care and demanding triple locks on their income. The ways to achieve those aims would be a strong economy and immigration of young workers to balance the demographics!
>
> A weak economy with little immigration will obviously limit the ability of the country to deal with its demographic challenges.
Yes , no one wants to address this issue . The worker pensioner ratio is now 3 to 1 this is not sustainable . Hard choices need to be made . No party wants to deal with it , May tried and it blew up in her face with the social care policy . Taxes have to go up to pay for pensions and social care unless people want to be working into their 70s.
> > @nico67 said:
> > Far too many politicians have peddled the left behind guff .
> >
> > Just call a spade a spade . They just wanted someone to blame for their crap lives so immigrants were the easy target delivered on a plate by the hatemonger Farage .
> >
> > In the meantime non EU migration has gone through the roof whilst EU nationals leave in droves .
> >
> > Amazing how quiet Farage and co have been on this . Brits lose their freedom of movement rights and for what !
>
> I guess you don't understand the irony of using the phrase 'Just call a spade a spade'.
>
> Hey ho!
Lmao . Yes just realized , oops!
> > @felix said:
> > > @nico67 said:
> > > Far too many politicians have peddled the left behind guff .
> > >
> > > Just call a spade a spade . They just wanted someone to blame for their crap lives so immigrants were the easy target delivered on a plate by the hatemonger Farage .
> > >
> > > In the meantime non EU migration has gone through the roof whilst EU nationals leave in droves .
> > >
> > > Amazing how quiet Farage and co have been on this . Brits lose their freedom of movement rights and for what !
> >
> > I guess you don't understand the irony of using the phrase 'Just call a spade a spade'.
> >
> > Hey ho!
>
> Lmao . Yes just realized , oops!
You are Danny Baker AICMFP.
> > @tlg86 said:
> > > @nico67 said:
> > > The big difference between Scottish Nationalism is it’s being driven by the younger generation .
> > >
> > > I would accept Brexit if the younger generation were the catalyst . As it is it’s not so I will always hate the damn thing .
> > >
> > >
> >
> > You're the first Remainer on here I've seen acknowledge this inconvenient fact. So do you think votes in general should be weighted by how young a voter is?
>
> No, but there is something dysfunctional when the predominance of pensioners and the age-related difference in voting behaviour means that the pensioners are able to push through something damaging to people of working age.
Far better to scrap this democracy malarkey when it produces results you personally don't like.
> The big difference between Scottish Nationalism is it’s being driven by the younger generation .
>
> I would accept Brexit if the younger generation were the catalyst . As it is it’s not so I will always hate the damn thing .
>
>
It would make no difference to the merits of the argument if young people tended to favour Brexit, and older people tended to oppose it.
The average 20 year old is neither more nor less virtuous or wise than the average 60 year old.
> Are the youngest voters more pro-SNP than average? I seem to remember reading somewhere that it was more voters in the 30 to 45 age range.
________
Slightly so. With two precise exceptions, there is no big demographic propensity to support our oppose independence for Scotland. All of the demographics were in the 60/40 band and most were in the 55/45 band. The exceptions were the over 65 and people born outside Scotland, who turned out very heavily for No.
> > @IanB2 said:
> > > @tlg86 said:
> > > > @nico67 said:
> > > > The big difference between Scottish Nationalism is it’s being driven by the younger generation .
> > > >
> > > > I would accept Brexit if the younger generation were the catalyst . As it is it’s not so I will always hate the damn thing .
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > You're the first Remainer on here I've seen acknowledge this inconvenient fact. So do you think votes in general should be weighted by how young a voter is?
> >
> > No, but there is something dysfunctional when the predominance of pensioners and the age-related difference in voting behaviour means that the pensioners are able to push through something damaging to people of working age.
>
> Not to mention the context of a growing elderly population, needing more health and social care and demanding triple locks on their income. The ways to achieve those aims would be a strong economy and immigration of young workers to balance the demographics!
>
> A weak economy with little immigration will obviously limit the ability of the country to deal with its demographic challenges.
Not all immigration is the same.
Increasing the wrong sort of immigration increases the burden on the state.
> > @felix said:
> > > @nico67 said:
> > > Far too many politicians have peddled the left behind guff .
> > >
> > > Just call a spade a spade . They just wanted someone to blame for their crap lives so immigrants were the easy target delivered on a plate by the hatemonger Farage .
> > >
> > > In the meantime non EU migration has gone through the roof whilst EU nationals leave in droves .
> > >
> > > Amazing how quiet Farage and co have been on this . Brits lose their freedom of movement rights and for what !
> >
> > I guess you don't understand the irony of using the phrase 'Just call a spade a spade'.
> >
> > Hey ho!
>
> Lmao . Yes just realized , oops!
Maybe every time you refer to 'ag'e try substituting 'black' or 'women'. It might help you.
> > @IanB2 said:
> > > @tlg86 said:
> > > > @nico67 said:
> > > > The big difference between Scottish Nationalism is it’s being driven by the younger generation .
> > > >
> > > > I would accept Brexit if the younger generation were the catalyst . As it is it’s not so I will always hate the damn thing .
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > You're the first Remainer on here I've seen acknowledge this inconvenient fact. So do you think votes in general should be weighted by how young a voter is?
> >
> > No, but there is something dysfunctional when the predominance of pensioners and the age-related difference in voting behaviour means that the pensioners are able to push through something damaging to people of working age.
>
> Far better to scrap this democracy malarkey when it produces results you personally don't li
So everyone should back the parliamentary gridlock we have without dissent as that is what the UK democratically voted for? Of course in a democracy people have to argue against previous votes.
* What were the numbers of migrants into the UK before Brexit (presumably pa)
* What were the numbers of burdensome migrants into the UK before Brexit
* What were the numbers of migrants into the UK after Brexit (presumably pa)
* What were the numbers of burdensome migrants into the UK after Brexit
* What numbers for those categories would you consider acceptable?
When we have those numbers we can deduce numbers, percentages and thresholds and reach a conclusion.
When there is such a massive disparity in the way the young and the old voted, it’s not entirely surprising that those who are going to have to live longest with the results might resent it.
Whether that is democratic or not, it further explains the divisiveness of the issue.
> > @noneoftheabove said:
> > > @IanB2 said:
> > > > @tlg86 said:
> > > > > @nico67 said:
> > > > > The big difference between Scottish Nationalism is it’s being driven by the younger generation .
> > > > >
> > > > > I would accept Brexit if the younger generation were the catalyst . As it is it’s not so I will always hate the damn thing .
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > You're the first Remainer on here I've seen acknowledge this inconvenient fact. So do you think votes in general should be weighted by how young a voter is?
> > >
> > > No, but there is something dysfunctional when the predominance of pensioners and the age-related difference in voting behaviour means that the pensioners are able to push through something damaging to people of working age.
> >
> > Not to mention the context of a growing elderly population, needing more health and social care and demanding triple locks on their income. The ways to achieve those aims would be a strong economy and immigration of young workers to balance the demographics!
> >
> > A weak economy with little immigration will obviously limit the ability of the country to deal with its demographic challenges.
>
> Not all immigration is the same.
>
> Increasing the wrong sort of immigration increases the burden on the state.
Of course that is true and there is nothing about leave that has to define how much immigration we have, but those Tories who have campaigned alongside an anti-immigration agenda will find it much harder to pivot back to immigration is good for the Singapore on Thames economy than they imagine.
And "high quality" immigrants will move (already have moved) the UK down their list of preferred choices because of Brexit and the feeling of being less welcome here.
https://twitter.com/lisaduffy1968/status/1129701327016222721?s=21
> https://twitter.com/JamesMelville/status/1129768173950181377
Ugh, woke brands
I presume being the pragmatic and principled souls they are, the Conservatives will enthusiastically support everything Boris Johnson says or does until he loses them an election or looks like he will lose them an election.
> > @Scott_P said:
> > Yes, this is clearly a country that could survive/thrive with no deal...
> >
> > https://twitter.com/greg_jenner/status/1129719114241462272
>
> How very petty. Why don't they debate him rather than just throwing ice creams at him?
I can't help but read that in a whiny Ben Shapiro voice
> Afternoon all
>
> I presume being the pragmatic and principled souls they are, the Conservatives will enthusiastically support everything Boris Johnson says or does until he loses them an election or looks like he will lose them an election.
Survation today has the Tories under Boris tied with Corbyn Labour, under May though they currently trail Labour by 7% with the Brexit Party on 21%.
While as Australia proved today it is not polls that decide elections but ballots, elections are never over until they are all counted!
> > @YBarddCwsc said:
> > > @tlg86 said:
> > >
> > > You're the first Remainer on here I've seen acknowledge this inconvenient fact. >So do you think votes in general should be weighted by how young a voter is?
> >
> > Nico67's youth-weighting is good news for the Marine Le Pen and the Front National.
> >
> > https://tinyurl.com/y5juf2ke
> >
>
> Good point . Older people in France are much more pro EU . But bear in mind many younger people wouldn’t have remembered Marine Le Pens father ! But she’s now no longer pushing an EU exit .
Older people in France voted for the conservative Fillon in 2017, then Macron in the runoff, it was the middle aged who were most pro Le Pen
> > @AndyJS said:
> > Are the youngest voters more pro-SNP than average? I seem to remember reading somewhere that it was more voters in the 30 to 45 age range.
>
> I think I've read that whilst 16/17 year olds broke for Yes, they weren't as pro-independence as twenty somethings.
According to Ashcroft 16 to 24 year olds were only 51% to 49% Yes, 25 to 54 year olds had a higher Yes vote than the youngest Scots.
https://lordashcroftpolls.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Lord-Ashcroft-Polls-Referendum-day-poll-summary-1409191.pdf
Except we wont have left in 2020. Boris will still be "negotiating".
The other side is everyone is loyal to a leader who is successful and keeps them in employment. Both Thatcher and now May have fallen victim simply because the Party realised defeat was inevitable.
I think Morrison's win was as much due to Shorten's failure. You cited the analogy of Major and Kinnock and we all know what happened in 1997 when Major faced a new and much more politically savvy Labour leader after a long period of Conservative rule.
I'd be surprised if Morrison was the Coalition candidate next time - mid term unpopularity may lead to a "spill" as they call it. As to who succeeds Shorten and where they take Labor, I don't know.
> > @rottenborough said:
> > Lynton Crosby and Mark Textor ran the winning Australian campaign.
>
> Crosby managed to net the Tories a popular vote win in England in 2005, which wasn't a bad achievement after the landslides of 1997 and 2001.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_United_Kingdom_general_election_in_England
Crosby also ran the 2015 Tory campaign, May largely ignored him in 2017 to her cost, Boris will have him back if he is leader next time (Crosby also ran the Boris Mayoral campaigns)
> https://twitter.com/juliamacfarlane/status/1129791148187197440
>
>
>
> Brilliant.
>
> Except we wont have left in 2020. Boris will still be "negotiating".
>
> And tonight’s hosts aren’t in the EU either
That's one way to get Labour to support Brexit. Get Israel to join.
Morrison won the election as the Coalition won 11 seats to 5 for Labor in Western Australia and an astonishing 23 seats to just 5 for Labor in Queensland.
It seems Australia really is a divided nation now and with its 2 largest cities, Sydney and Melbourne in New South Wales and Victoria respectively it follows much of the rest of the developed world in a left/liberal urban big city v conservative rural and small town divide
https://www.abc.net.au/news/elections/federal/2019/results/party-totals
> https://twitter.com/rhonddabryant/status/1129669647752716289
Are those steel shutters over walls with no way in ?
> > @another_richard said:
> > > @noneoftheabove said:
> > > > @IanB2 said:
> > > > > @tlg86 said:
> > > > > > @nico67 said:
> > > > > > The big difference between Scottish Nationalism is it’s being driven by the younger generation .
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I would accept Brexit if the younger generation were the catalyst . As it is it’s not so I will always hate the damn thing .
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > You're the first Remainer on here I've seen acknowledge this inconvenient fact. So do you think votes in general should be weighted by how young a voter is?
> > > >
> > > > No, but there is something dysfunctional when the predominance of pensioners and the age-related difference in voting behaviour means that the pensioners are able to push through something damaging to people of working age.
> > >
> > > Not to mention the context of a growing elderly population, needing more health and social care and demanding triple locks on their income. The ways to achieve those aims would be a strong economy and immigration of young workers to balance the demographics!
> > >
> > > A weak economy with little immigration will obviously limit the ability of the country to deal with its demographic challenges.
> >
> > Not all immigration is the same.
> >
> > Increasing the wrong sort of immigration increases the burden on the state.
>
> Of course that is true and there is nothing about leave that has to define how much immigration we have, but those Tories who have campaigned alongside an anti-immigration agenda will find it much harder to pivot back to immigration is good for the Singapore on Thames economy than they imagine.
>
> And "high quality" immigrants will move (already have moved) the UK down their list of preferred choices because of Brexit and the feeling of being less welcome here.
Before they pivot back they will need to do something about the low quality immigration.
And I wonder how much of a negative the low quality immigration is in attempts to attract high quality immigration.
> > @isam said:
> > https://twitter.com/juliamacfarlane/status/1129791148187197440
> >
> >
> >
> > Brilliant.
> >
> > Except we wont have left in 2020. Boris will still be "negotiating".
> >
> > And tonight’s hosts aren’t in the EU either
>
> That's one way to get Labour to support Brexit. Get Israel to join.
A celebration of European culture and identity where the majority of winners in the last decade have been countries that aren't EU members!
And the second favourite to win tonight is Australia and the contest is being held in a country that isn't actually in Europe either!
Cos the EU isn't of course Europe - it doesn't even cover most of the European landmass - and Eurovision goes way beyond that!
Labor's identification with the workers is a relic of bygone days. It is now the party of the right-on bourgeoisie.
> Survation today has the Tories under Boris tied with Corbyn Labour, under May though they currently trail Labour by 7% with the Brexit Party on 21%.
>
> While as Australia proved today it is not polls that decide elections but ballots, elections are never over until they are all counted!
>
> Of course but this is a political betting site and you can't blame people who choose to wager based on the information provided. It's no different than backing horses or dogs in all honesty. There's form and there's what happens on the track.
>
> The other side is everyone is loyal to a leader who is successful and keeps them in employment. Both Thatcher and now May have fallen victim simply because the Party realised defeat was inevitable.
>
> I think Morrison's win was as much due to Shorten's failure. You cited the analogy of Major and Kinnock and we all know what happened in 1997 when Major faced a new and much more politically savvy Labour leader after a long period of Conservative rule.
>
> I'd be surprised if Morrison was the Coalition candidate next time - mid term unpopularity may lead to a "spill" as they call it. As to who succeeds Shorten and where they take Labor, I don't know.
It will likely be either the more leftwing Corbynite populist Anthony Albanese or if they have more sense the more telegenic centrist Tanya Pilbersek
> According to the BBC, Queensland rejected Labor not despite it being a coal mining area but because it is a coal mining area.
> Labor's identification with the workers is a relic of bygone days. It is now the party of the right-on bourgeoisie.
Other than snippets on here, I haven't followed the Australian election. I did however here a clip from Shorten where he was talking about climate change and I thought that was odd thing to talk about at the end of an election campaign.
> > @isam said:
> > https://twitter.com/rhonddabryant/status/1129669647752716289
>
> Are those steel shutters over walls with no way in ?
And no way out.... But then, it`s Labour....