Sky have found a loony aristocratic supporter of Julian Assange.
Michael Shrimpton?
Lady Tracy Worcester. Apparently he's a hero who can do no wrong, the accusations against him are made up and he's 100% accurate in everything he says.
I'm not sure his accuracy has ever been under serious dispute. If he were less accurate, he'd annoy the Americans a lot less.
Labour's shadow home secretary Diane Abbott said Assange was being pursued for "whistle-blowing into illegal wars, mass murder, murder of civilians and corruption on a grand scale" that put him "in the cross-hairs of the US administration".
Labour on the side of Russian lackies again I see. Even the Guardian thing he is a wrong'un these days.
The Guardian are sh*ts for the way they *accidentally* leaked the master password of the unredacted wikileak cables. Their excuse of sheer incompetence does not wash.
A member of my extended family (and I don't mean that in Charles' sense) was mentioned in the cables.
I'll never forgive the Guardian for that. They'are absolute shits.
In addition, there might be the second Falcon Heavy launch later tonight.
Space is cool.
Space really is cool. I'll forgo Brexit if we can really ramp up the Euro Space Agency and spunk our 350 grand for the NHS a week into some rockets and stuff.
350 GRAND?? Please tell me your job doesn't involve numbers.....
Looking forward to seeing the polling for the Tories now we have the 6 month extension. Straw that broke the camel's back?
Could this be interpreted as another fail for poor old Macron? Everything he does seems to go wrong.
It looks like we have spent £1.5bn to back up Theresa May's bluff on No Deal.
I wonder whether that will make it onto the side of a bus?
It wasn't about preparing for her bluff, there was a high risk that parliamentary paralysis could see us accidentally no deal. I doubt it was all spent well, but some prep was better than none.
Labour can't campaign for revoke as it will annoy Northern Leave MPs. It can't campaign for the a Deal as that wil annoy the South. A peoples' vote offers them a safe and easy way to campaign in the EU elections without hurting anyone.
Now where are the odds for Labour to win most votes and seats..
What side would Labour campaign for in such a PV? 'Their' deal, or Remain?
Read the article as it states Corbyn would remain neutral and allow MPs to campaign for whatever side they prefer.
After all this is only there for 2 reasons. It means that labour can campaign in the EU elections without making a commitment and after any referendum can look at any result and say not our fault...
Labour's shadow home secretary Diane Abbott said Assange was being pursued for "whistle-blowing into illegal wars, mass murder, murder of civilians and corruption on a grand scale" that put him "in the cross-hairs of the US administration".
Labour on the side of Russian lackies again I see. Even the Guardian thing he is a wrong'un these days.
The Guardian are sh*ts for the way they *accidentally* leaked the master password of the unredacted wikileak cables. Their excuse of sheer incompetence does not wash.
A member of my extended family (and I don't mean that in Charles' sense) was mentioned in the cables.
I'll never forgive the Guardian for that. They'are absolute shits.
I can't / don't want to go into details (though PB regulars might be able to sniff a guess), but such information doesn't have to lead to death to cause significant problems for the people mentioned.
In addition, there might be the second Falcon Heavy launch later tonight.
Space is cool.
Space really is cool. I'll forgo Brexit if we can really ramp up the Euro Space Agency and spunk our 350 grand for the NHS a week into some rockets and stuff.
350 GRAND?? Please tell me your job doesn't involve numbers.....
Labour's shadow home secretary Diane Abbott said Assange was being pursued for "whistle-blowing into illegal wars, mass murder, murder of civilians and corruption on a grand scale" that put him "in the cross-hairs of the US administration".
Labour on the side of Russian lackies again I see. Even the Guardian thing he is a wrong'un these days.
I appreciate that Youtube is no more a 'real world' environment than PB, but people may want a quick look at the responses there to the arrest story to realise that elsewhere, alternative views certainly proliferate, Guardian or no Guardian.
If I were a member of the American Government I'd be delighted at this news. I'm just puzzled why a member of the UK public should be. Assange, whatever his personal defects, was instrumental in exposing wrongdoing that otherwise would have remained a secret.
The only thing I am pleased about is the merciful lifting of the burden on the public purse of surveiling him. Perhaps the police can now try and focus on stopping Londoners stabbing each other.
Because he jumped bail
Like perjury it undermines the justice system and should be harshly punished
Labour can't campaign for revoke as it will annoy Northern Leave MPs. It can't campaign for the a Deal as that wil annoy the South. A peoples' vote offers them a safe and easy way to campaign in the EU elections without hurting anyone.
Now where are the odds for Labour to win most votes and seats..
What side would Labour campaign for in such a PV? 'Their' deal, or Remain?
Read the article as it states Corbyn would remain neutral and allow MPs to campaign for whatever side they prefer.
After all this is only there for 2 reasons. It means that labour can campaign in the EU elections without making a commitment and after any referendum can look at any result and say not our fault...
The voters fault then?
I didn't think the EU would give extra time for us to faff around, but it turned out that they would.
They might just keep doing it until there's a general election and change of Government that revokes.
So again a hung Parliament but Corbyn could choose whether to rely on the LDs for confidence and supply or the SNP (once the Scottish results added) to become PM but the SNP would give him a small working majority
Sky have found a loony aristocratic supporter of Julian Assange.
Michael Shrimpton?
Lady Tracy Worcester. Apparently he's a hero who can do no wrong, the accusations against him are made up and he's 100% accurate in everything he says.
I'm not sure his accuracy has ever been under serious dispute. If he were less accurate, he'd annoy the Americans a lot less.
You're confusing two separate issues. He leaked a great deal of information from the US government (among others). The accuracy of that isn't disputed. But he didn't say anything there.
By contrast everything he has said about the motivations for the charges he faced in Sweden, an international conspiracy to silence him and the private lives of his accusers, judges and prosecutors is clearly either a flat out lie or the product of a mind that is one sandwich short of a picnic.
Labour's shadow home secretary Diane Abbott said Assange was being pursued for "whistle-blowing into illegal wars, mass murder, murder of civilians and corruption on a grand scale" that put him "in the cross-hairs of the US administration".
Labour on the side of Russian lackies again I see. Even the Guardian thing he is a wrong'un these days.
I appreciate that Youtube is no more a 'real world' environment than PB, but people may want a quick look at the responses there to the arrest story to realise that elsewhere, alternative views certainly proliferate, Guardian or no Guardian.
If I were a member of the American Government I'd be delighted at this news. I'm just puzzled why a member of the UK public should be. Assange, whatever his personal defects, was instrumental in exposing wrongdoing that otherwise would have remained a secret.
The only thing I am pleased about is the merciful lifting of the burden on the public purse of surveiling him. Perhaps the police can now try and focus on stopping Londoners stabbing each other.
Because he jumped bail
Like perjury it undermines the justice system and should be harshly punished
Yes, I'm sure that the 13,000 UK bail jumpers (in 2016) are all being pursued with equal vigour. Especially the 1,835 (sorry, now 1,834) that the Metropolitan police have let slip.
Labour's shadow home secretary Diane Abbott said Assange was being pursued for "whistle-blowing into illegal wars, mass murder, murder of civilians and corruption on a grand scale" that put him "in the cross-hairs of the US administration".
Labour on the side of Russian lackies again I see. Even the Guardian thing he is a wrong'un these days.
I appreciate that Youtube is no more a 'real world' environment than PB, but people may want a quick look at the responses there to the arrest story to realise that elsewhere, alternative views certainly proliferate, Guardian or no Guardian.
If I were a member of the American Government I'd be delighted at this news. I'm just puzzled why a member of the UK public should be. Assange, whatever his personal defects, was instrumental in exposing wrongdoing that otherwise would have remained a secret.
The only thing I am pleased about is the merciful lifting of the burden on the public purse of surveiling him. Perhaps the police can now try and focus on stopping Londoners stabbing each other.
Because he jumped bail
Like perjury it undermines the justice system and should be harshly punished
Yes, I'm sure that the 13,000 UK bail jumpers (in 2016) are all being pursued with equal vigour. Especially the 1,835 (sorry, now 1,834) that the Metropolitan police have let slip.
There's some spending that you would have to do for an orderly Brexit. The £1.5bn is purely for no deal planning, which has more of the appearance of being wasteful given that it now appears May was never prepared to take us out of the EU without a deal. It's a lot of money to spend on a bluff, and especially a bluff that has been exposed as such.
Labour can't campaign for revoke as it will annoy Northern Leave MPs. It can't campaign for the a Deal as that wil annoy the South. A peoples' vote offers them a safe and easy way to campaign in the EU elections without hurting anyone.
Now where are the odds for Labour to win most votes and seats..
What side would Labour campaign for in such a PV? 'Their' deal, or Remain?
Read the article as it states Corbyn would remain neutral and allow MPs to campaign for whatever side they prefer.
After all this is only there for 2 reasons. It means that labour can campaign in the EU elections without making a commitment and after any referendum can look at any result and say not our fault...
The voters fault then?
I didn't think the EU would give extra time for us to faff around, but it turned out that they would.
They might just keep doing it until there's a general election and change of Government that revokes.
Why not?
That's probably the plan. So you know what Leave's best hope is at this stage? It's another referendum, WA vs remain.
Labour's shadow home secretary Diane Abbott said Assange was being pursued for "whistle-blowing into illegal wars, mass murder, murder of civilians and corruption on a grand scale" that put him "in the cross-hairs of the US administration".
Labour on the side of Russian lackies again I see. Even the Guardian thing he is a wrong'un these days.
I appreciate that Youtube is no more a 'real world' environment than PB, but people may want a quick look at the responses there to the arrest story to realise that elsewhere, alternative views certainly proliferate, Guardian or no Guardian.
If I were a member of the American Government I'd be delighted at this news. I'm just puzzled why a member of the UK public should be. Assange, whatever his personal defects, was instrumental in exposing wrongdoing that otherwise would have remained a secret.
The only thing I am pleased about is the merciful lifting of the burden on the public purse of surveiling him. Perhaps the police can now try and focus on stopping Londoners stabbing each other.
Because he jumped bail
Like perjury it undermines the justice system and should be harshly punished
Yes, I'm sure that the 13,000 UK bail jumpers (in 2016) are all being pursued with equal vigour. Especially the 1,835 (sorry, now 1,834) that the Metropolitan police have let slip.
In ~20 minutes, an Israeli company will be attempting to land the first private-financed lander on the Moon. You can watch at: ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMdUcchBYRA
In addition, there might be the second Falcon Heavy launch later tonight.
Space is cool.
Looks like they were close, but unsuccessful. Engine problems in the last minute or so leading to an uncontrolled landing.
There's some spending that you would have to do for an orderly Brexit. The £1.5bn is purely for no deal planning, which has more of the appearance of being wasteful given that it now appears May was never prepared to take us out of the EU without a deal. It's a lot of money to spend on a bluff, and especially a bluff that has been exposed as such.
I watched the Bank of America CEO on TV say that they had spent 400million on brexit. The next sentence was he expected a return on his investment. How the Tories are going to recover from the anger from the business community will be something to see. Perhaps corp tax to be cut to zero. That will please our EU partners no end.
Labour's shadow home secretary Diane Abbott said Assange was being pursued for "whistle-blowing into illegal wars, mass murder, murder of civilians and corruption on a grand scale" that put him "in the cross-hairs of the US administration".
Labour on the side of Russian lackies again I see. Even the Guardian thing he is a wrong'un these days.
I appreciate that Youtube is no more a 'real world' environment than PB, but people may want a quick look at the responses there to the arrest story to realise that elsewhere, alternative views certainly proliferate, Guardian or no Guardian.
If I were a member of the American Government I'd be delighted at this news. I'm just puzzled why a member of the UK public should be. Assange, whatever his personal defects, was instrumental in exposing wrongdoing that otherwise would have remained a secret.
The only thing I am pleased about is the merciful lifting of the burden on the public purse of surveiling him. Perhaps the police can now try and focus on stopping Londoners stabbing each other.
Because he jumped bail
Like perjury it undermines the justice system and should be harshly punished
Yes, I'm sure that the 13,000 UK bail jumpers (in 2016) are all being pursued with equal vigour. Especially the 1,835 (sorry, now 1,834) that the Metropolitan police have let slip.
How many of those seek refuge in a foreign embassy?
Doesn't seem to have been necessary in most cases.
Let me put it to you another way.
If the Rotherham sex abusers, at the moment they were first arrested and bailed prior to being charged, had jumped that bail and taken refuge in the Saudi embassy, are you saying we should have let them go because it was just too damn expensive to stop them?
Because that appears to be the ultimate logic of your position.
Looking forward to seeing the polling for the Tories now we have the 6 month extension. Straw that broke the camel's back?
Could this be interpreted as another fail for poor old Macron? Everything he does seems to go wrong.
It looks like we have spent £1.5bn to back up Theresa May's bluff on No Deal.
I wonder whether that will make it onto the side of a bus?
It wasn't about preparing for her bluff, there was a high risk that parliamentary paralysis could see us accidentally no deal. I doubt it was all spent well, but some prep was better than none.
If the PM was set against no deal there is no chance that the Parliamentary arithmetic would have allowed no deal to happen by chance. That's a fantasy.
Two weeks ago I couldn't have told you whether Theresa May would be willing to see a no deal through in preference to holding EU elections and remaining in the EU apparently indefinitely. Now we know.
Labour's shadow home secretary Diane Abbott said Assange was being pursued for "whistle-blowing into illegal wars, mass murder, murder of civilians and corruption on a grand scale" that put him "in the cross-hairs of the US administration".
Labour on the side of Russian lackies again I see. Even the Guardian thing he is a wrong'un these days.
I appreciate that Youtube is no more a 'real world' environment than PB, but people may want a quick look at the responses there to the arrest story to realise that elsewhere, alternative views certainly proliferate, Guardian or no Guardian.
If I were a member of the American Government I'd be delighted at this news. I'm just puzzled why a member of the UK public should be. Assange, whatever his personal defects, was instrumental in exposing wrongdoing that otherwise would have remained a secret.
The only thing I am pleased about is the merciful lifting of the burden on the public purse of surveiling him. Perhaps the police can now try and focus on stopping Londoners stabbing each other.
Because he jumped bail
Like perjury it undermines the justice system and should be harshly punished
Yes, I'm sure that the 13,000 UK bail jumpers (in 2016) are all being pursued with equal vigour. Especially the 1,835 (sorry, now 1,834) that the Metropolitan police have let slip.
There's some spending that you would have to do for an orderly Brexit. The £1.5bn is purely for no deal planning, which has more of the appearance of being wasteful given that it now appears May was never prepared to take us out of the EU without a deal. It's a lot of money to spend on a bluff, and especially a bluff that has been exposed as such.
Labour's shadow home secretary Diane Abbott said Assange was being pursued for "whistle-blowing into illegal wars, mass murder, murder of civilians and corruption on a grand scale" that put him "in the cross-hairs of the US administration".
Labour on the side of Russian lackies again I see. Even the Guardian thing he is a wrong'un these days.
I appreciate that Youtube is no more a 'real world' environment than PB, but people may want a quick look at the responses there to the arrest story to realise that elsewhere, alternative views certainly proliferate, Guardian or no Guardian.
If I were a member of the American Government I'd be delighted at this news. I'm just puzzled why a member of the UK public should be. Assange, whatever his personal defects, was instrumental in exposing wrongdoing that otherwise would have remained a secret.
The only thing I am pleased about is the merciful lifting of the burden on the public purse of surveiling him. Perhaps the police can now try and focus on stopping Londoners stabbing each other.
Because he jumped bail
Like perjury it undermines the justice system and should be harshly punished
Yes, I'm sure that the 13,000 UK bail jumpers (in 2016) are all being pursued with equal vigour. Especially the 1,835 (sorry, now 1,834) that the Metropolitan police have let slip.
How many of those seek refuge in a foreign embassy?
Doesn't seem to have been necessary in most cases.
Let me put it to you another way.
If the Rotherham sex abusers, at the moment they were first arrested and bailed prior to being charged, had jumped that bail and taken refuge in the Saudi embassy, are you saying we should have let them go because it was just too damn expensive to stop them?
Because that appears to be the ultimate logic of your position.
After a certain point, yes. That is exactly what I'm saying. Like any public body, the police has to spend money on the basis of the greatest benefit to the greatest number.
Labour's shadow home secretary Diane Abbott said Assange was being pursued for "whistle-blowing into illegal wars, mass murder, murder of civilians and corruption on a grand scale" that put him "in the cross-hairs of the US administration".
Labour on the side of Russian lackies again I see. Even the Guardian thing he is a wrong'un these days.
I appreciate that Youtube is no more a 'real world' environment than PB, but people may want a quick look at the responses there to the arrest story to realise that elsewhere, alternative views certainly proliferate, Guardian or no Guardian.
If I were a member of the American Government I'd be delighted at this news. I'm just puzzled why a member of the UK public should be. Assange, whatever his personal defects, was instrumental in exposing wrongdoing that otherwise would have remained a secret.
The only thing I am pleased about is the merciful lifting of the burden on the public purse of surveiling him. Perhaps the police can now try and focus on stopping Londoners stabbing each other.
Because he jumped bail
Like perjury it undermines the justice system and should be harshly punished
Yes, I'm sure that the 13,000 UK bail jumpers (in 2016) are all being pursued with equal vigour. Especially the 1,835 (sorry, now 1,834) that the Metropolitan police have let slip.
I can't see much new coming that will stop us being in exactly the same position in 6 months time. I think the EU bottled the extension slightly, you either go short to force some sort of decision from the UK under time pressure or you go very long to allow proper change to happen, but they did neither and fell in-between in a neither-or half-arsed sort of way.
Maybe the Tories getting a kicking in EU Parliament elections will force a change of leader (somehow) but other than that what's going to change?
The EU might be best waiting till an emergency summit two days before no deal exit and then saying no extension and forcing the UK to either leave with no deal or revoke. Risky on all sides but I can't see what breaks the logjam now.
On Buttigeig: how are we pronouncing that? I assume it's not the buttygeeg my brain reads it as?
Labour's shadow home secretary Diane Abbott said Assange was being pursued for "whistle-blowing into illegal wars, mass murder, murder of civilians and corruption on a grand scale" that put him "in the cross-hairs of the US administration".
Labour on the side of Russian lackies again I see. Even the Guardian thing he is a wrong'un these days.
I appreciate that Youtube is no more a 'real world' environment than PB, but people may want a quick look at the responses there to the arrest story to realise that elsewhere, alternative views certainly proliferate, Guardian or no Guardian.
If I were a member of the American Government I'd be delighted at this news. I'm just puzzled why a member of the UK public should be. Assange, whatever his personal defects, was instrumental in exposing wrongdoing that otherwise would have remained a secret.
The only thing I am pleased about is the merciful lifting of the burden on the public purse of surveiling him. Perhaps the police can now try and focus on stopping Londoners stabbing each other.
Because he jumped bail
Like perjury it undermines the justice system and should be harshly punished
Indeed so. Rather like the discussions on Fiona Onasanya, the offence is of thinking oneself to be somehow above the law.
I'd like to hear what the various luvvies who collectively lost a couple of hundred grand in bail money now think of Assange.
So again a hung Parliament but Corbyn could choose whether to rely on the LDs for confidence and supply or the SNP (once the Scottish results added) to become PM but the SNP would give him a small working majority
Once again you are peddling this notion the LDs would put Corbyn into Downing Street and maintain him via C&S. I don't recall that being LD policy but perhaps I am misinformed?
I can't see much new coming that will stop us being in exactly the same position in 6 months time. I think the EU bottled the extension slightly, you either go short to force some sort of decision from the UK under time pressure or you go very long to allow proper change to happen, but they did neither and fell in-between in a neither-or half-arsed sort of way.
Maybe the Tories getting a kicking in EU Parliament elections will force a change of leader (somehow) but other than that what's going to change?
The EU might be best waiting till an emergency summit two days before no deal exit and then saying no extension and forcing the UK to either leave with no deal or revoke. Risky on all sides but I can't see what breaks the logjam now.
On Buttigeig: how are we pronouncing that? I assume it's not the buttygeeg my brain reads it as?
So again a hung Parliament but Corbyn could choose whether to rely on the LDs for confidence and supply or the SNP (once the Scottish results added) to become PM but the SNP would give him a small working majority
Once again you are peddling this notion the LDs would put Corbyn into Downing Street and maintain him via C&S. I don't recall that being LD policy but perhaps I am misinformed?
Well they are not going to put the Tories in again are they even if they hold the balance of power? So even if the LDs stay neutral that could put Corbyn in Downing Street by default unless they actively back the Tories via C&S
So again a hung Parliament but Corbyn could choose whether to rely on the LDs for confidence and supply or the SNP (once the Scottish results added) to become PM but the SNP would give him a small working majority
In reality Jezza will win a very healthy overall majority whenever the Tories dare face the electorate.
Labour's shadow home secretary Diane Abbott said Assange was being pursued for "whistle-blowing into illegal wars, mass murder, murder of civilians and corruption on a grand scale" that put him "in the cross-hairs of the US administration".
Labour on the side of Russian lackies again I see. Even the Guardian thing he is a wrong'un these days.
I appreciate that Youtube is no more a 'real world' environment than PB, but people may want a quick look at the responses there to the arrest story to realise that elsewhere, alternative views certainly proliferate, Guardian or no Guardian.
If I were a member of the American Government I'd be delighted at this news. I'm just puzzled why a member of the UK public should be. Assange, whatever his personal defects, was instrumental in exposing wrongdoing that otherwise would have remained a secret.
The only thing I am pleased about is the merciful lifting of the burden on the public purse of surveiling him. Perhaps the police can now try and focus on stopping Londoners stabbing each other.
Because he jumped bail
Like perjury it undermines the justice system and should be harshly punished
Yes, I'm sure that the 13,000 UK bail jumpers (in 2016) are all being pursued with equal vigour. Especially the 1,835 (sorry, now 1,834) that the Metropolitan police have let slip.
How many of those seek refuge in a foreign embassy?
Doesn't seem to have been necessary in most cases.
Let me put it to you another way.
If the Rotherham sex abusers, at the moment they were first arrested and bailed prior to being charged, had jumped that bail and taken refuge in the Saudi embassy, are you saying we should have let them go because it was just too damn expensive to stop them?
Because that appears to be the ultimate logic of your position.
After a certain point, yes. That is exactly what I'm saying. Like any public body, the police has to spend money on the basis of the greatest benefit to the greatest number.
That's an argument about how much should have been spent monitoring him while he was in the embassy, which I believe they did eventually relax, not for arresting him once he became available to be arrested, so in this case seems pretty irrelevant.
In ~20 minutes, an Israeli company will be attempting to land the first private-financed lander on the Moon. You can watch at: ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMdUcchBYRA
In addition, there might be the second Falcon Heavy launch later tonight.
Space is cool.
Looks like they were close, but unsuccessful. Engine problems in the last minute or so leading to an uncontrolled landing.
Why do the media keep obsessing over an election .
The Tories wouldn’t dare go for one until Brexit is done and their poll ratings improve .
Their poll ratings aren't going to improve (not with this leader and possibly not with any leader)
They've betrayed their voters and they're finished.
Yet more overhysteria from you, the 37% the Tories are on even on this poll is the same rating Cameron got in 2015 when he won an overall majority and that was in a poll that included UKIP.
So again a hung Parliament but Corbyn could choose whether to rely on the LDs for confidence and supply or the SNP (once the Scottish results added) to become PM but the SNP would give him a small working majority
In reality Jezza will win a very healthy overall majority whenever the Tories dare face the electorate.
In reality he would not, he will only get into No 10 with the support of the SNP on almost every current poll.
Corbyn needs a lead of at least 7% over the Tories even for a majority of 1 unless Scottish Labour again wins most seats in Scotland
So again a hung Parliament but Corbyn could choose whether to rely on the LDs for confidence and supply or the SNP (once the Scottish results added) to become PM but the SNP would give him a small working majority
Once again you are peddling this notion the LDs would put Corbyn into Downing Street and maintain him via C&S. I don't recall that being LD policy but perhaps I am misinformed?
I'm sure it isn't their policy, but are you really saying that if they held the balance of power the LDs would simply do nothing, or would they prop up the Tories in that situation? None of the options seems very likely, but backing Corbyn seems the least unlikely.
Why do the media keep obsessing over an election .
The Tories wouldn’t dare go for one until Brexit is done and their poll ratings improve .
Their poll ratings aren't going to improve (not with this leader and possibly not with any leader)
They've betrayed their voters and they're finished.
Yet more overhysteria from you, the 37% the Tories are on even on this poll is the same rating Cameron got in 2015 when he won an overall majority and that was in a poll that included UKIP.
Why do the media keep obsessing over an election .
The Tories wouldn’t dare go for one until Brexit is done and their poll ratings improve .
Their poll ratings aren't going to improve (not with this leader and possibly not with any leader)
They've betrayed their voters and they're finished.
Yet more overhysteria from you, the 37% the Tories are on even on this poll is the same rating Cameron got in 2015 when he won an overall majority and that was in a poll that included UKIP.
Why do the media keep obsessing over an election .
The Tories wouldn’t dare go for one until Brexit is done and their poll ratings improve .
It may not be up to them at some stage there is a VONC, and subsequent failure to agree someone else. It's not out of the realms of possibility, given the DUP are getting more bullish and the Bakers of this world have flirted with the idea.
Why do the media keep obsessing over an election .
The Tories wouldn’t dare go for one until Brexit is done and their poll ratings improve .
Their poll ratings aren't going to improve (not with this leader and possibly not with any leader)
They've betrayed their voters and they're finished.
Yet more overhysteria from you, the 37% the Tories are on even on this poll is the same rating Cameron got in 2015 when he won an overall majority and that was in a poll that included UKIP.
In ~20 minutes, an Israeli company will be attempting to land the first private-financed lander on the Moon. You can watch at: ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMdUcchBYRA
In addition, there might be the second Falcon Heavy launch later tonight.
Space is cool.
Looks like they were close, but unsuccessful. Engine problems in the last minute or so leading to an uncontrolled landing.
Looking forward to seeing the polling for the Tories now we have the 6 month extension. Straw that broke the camel's back?
Could this be interpreted as another fail for poor old Macron? Everything he does seems to go wrong.
It looks like we have spent £1.5bn to back up Theresa May's bluff on No Deal.
I wonder whether that will make it onto the side of a bus?
It wasn't about preparing for her bluff, there was a high risk that parliamentary paralysis could see us accidentally no deal. I doubt it was all spent well, but some prep was better than none.
If the PM was set against no deal there is no chance that the Parliamentary arithmetic would have allowed no deal to happen by chance. That's a fantasy.
Two weeks ago I couldn't have told you whether Theresa May would be willing to see a no deal through in preference to holding EU elections and remaining in the EU apparently indefinitely. Now we know.
And we didn't then, so it could have happened. I doubt she knew a month ago.
Why do the media keep obsessing over an election .
The Tories wouldn’t dare go for one until Brexit is done and their poll ratings improve .
Their poll ratings aren't going to improve (not with this leader and possibly not with any leader)
They've betrayed their voters and they're finished.
Yet more overhysteria from you, the 37% the Tories are on even on this poll is the same rating Cameron got in 2015 when he won an overall majority and that was in a poll that included UKIP.
Hardly 'finished' on any definition
Con -8. Con -10. etc
The trend is your friend...
If the Tories were facing Balls or International Rescue SPAD boy, they'd be on about 25
After a certain point, yes. That is exactly what I'm saying. Like any public body, the police has to spend money on the basis of the greatest benefit to the greatest number.
And when is that point? Who decides? What is reasonable to investigate somebody against whom very serious allegations have been made?
Now, on the substantive point it is true that this case is unusual in the length of time it has dragged on and how high profile it has been. It has also been very unusual insofar as he has been trapped in a place clearly identified and yet inaccessible to the rozzers. But you might be surprised at how much time and money is spent pursuing fugitives. For example, thousands was spent trying to extradite Ronnie Biggs, including a rather bizarre and probably unauthorised attempt at kidnap, and he was met by 100 officers on his return to the country, which seems excessive for a man with mobility problems.
I would add when we discussed this a couple of days ago, you said something rather different. You said the Assange case was clearly politically motivated because nobody bothered to pursue sex crimes in Rotherham. Now, as Cyclefree and I pointed out to you, that wasn't correct. But you still said it.
It's difficult not to come to the conclusion you are so starry eyed in your support of Assange that you are willing to say whatever is needed to exonerate him, and criticise anyone trying to put him through this funny thing called the justice system. But newsflash - the expense, the lies, the publicity, the extradition request from Virginia - they all come down, when you look at it with a cold eye, are due to Assange's extreme unwillingness to answer questions about complaints that he committed sexual misconduct. Nothing else. The fact he has done himself far more damage and spent far longer in incarceration than he would have done even if charged tried and convicted is something that would be amusing in other circumstances.
Looking forward to seeing the polling for the Tories now we have the 6 month extension. Straw that broke the camel's back?
Could this be interpreted as another fail for poor old Macron? Everything he does seems to go wrong.
It looks like we have spent £1.5bn to back up Theresa May's bluff on No Deal.
I wonder whether that will make it onto the side of a bus?
It wasn't about preparing for her bluff, there was a high risk that parliamentary paralysis could see us accidentally no deal. I doubt it was all spent well, but some prep was better than none.
If the PM was set against no deal there is no chance that the Parliamentary arithmetic would have allowed no deal to happen by chance. That's a fantasy.
Two weeks ago I couldn't have told you whether Theresa May would be willing to see a no deal through in preference to holding EU elections and remaining in the EU apparently indefinitely. Now we know.
And we didn't then, so it could have happened. I doubt she knew a month ago.
Labour's shadow home secretary Diane Abbott said Assange was being pursued for "whistle-blowing into illegal wars, mass murder, murder of civilians and corruption on a grand scale" that put him "in the cross-hairs of the US administration".
Labour on the side of Russian lackies again I see. Even the Guardian thing he is a wrong'un these days.
I appreciate that Youtube is no more a 'real world' environment than PB, but people may want a quick look at the responses there to the arrest story to realise that elsewhere, alternative views certainly proliferate, Guardian or no Guardian.
If I were a member of the American Government I'd be delighted at this news. I'm just puzzled why a member of the UK public should be. Assange, whatever his personal defects, was instrumental in exposing wrongdoing that otherwise would have remained a secret.
The only thing I am pleased about is the merciful lifting of the burden on the public purse of surveiling him. Perhaps the police can now try and focus on stopping Londoners stabbing each other.
Because he jumped bail
Like perjury it undermines the justice system and should be harshly punished
Yes, I'm sure that the 13,000 UK bail jumpers (in 2016) are all being pursued with equal vigour. Especially the 1,835 (sorry, now 1,834) that the Metropolitan police have let slip.
How many of those seek refuge in a foreign embassy?
Doesn't seem to have been necessary in most cases.
Let me put it to you another way.
If the Rotherham sex abusers, at the moment they were first arrested and bailed prior to being charged, had jumped that bail and taken refuge in the Saudi embassy, are you saying we should have let them go because it was just too damn expensive to stop them?
Because that appears to be the ultimate logic of your position.
After a certain point, yes. That is exactly what I'm saying. Like any public body, the police has to spend money on the basis of the greatest benefit to the greatest number.
The Drunk Motorist's Fallacy (Why aren't you out catching burglars, offisher, instead of breathalysing me?)
Looking forward to seeing the polling for the Tories now we have the 6 month extension. Straw that broke the camel's back?
Could this be interpreted as another fail for poor old Macron? Everything he does seems to go wrong.
It looks like we have spent £1.5bn to back up Theresa May's bluff on No Deal.
I wonder whether that will make it onto the side of a bus?
It wasn't about preparing for her bluff, there was a high risk that parliamentary paralysis could see us accidentally no deal. I doubt it was all spent well, but some prep was better than none.
If the PM was set against no deal there is no chance that the Parliamentary arithmetic would have allowed no deal to happen by chance. That's a fantasy.
Two weeks ago I couldn't have told you whether Theresa May would be willing to see a no deal through in preference to holding EU elections and remaining in the EU apparently indefinitely. Now we know.
And we didn't then, so it could have happened. I doubt she knew a month ago.
I've been saying no British PM would take us to no deal, for months. Whether I was right all along or right only recently, who can say.
In ~20 minutes, an Israeli company will be attempting to land the first private-financed lander on the Moon. You can watch at: ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMdUcchBYRA
In addition, there might be the second Falcon Heavy launch later tonight.
Space is cool.
Looks like they were close, but unsuccessful. Engine problems in the last minute or so leading to an uncontrolled landing.
Darned it. I hate lithobraking.
It's a ***** to get so near and not to land.
Oh, they definitely landed. Last telemetry point that got frozen on the screen had a vertical speed of 135m/s and an altitude of 154m
Memories of the late Colin Pillinger and his Beagle team, on Christmas Day a couple of decades ago. Edit: 2003, only a decade and a half ago, I should stop wishing my life away.
Good luck to SpaceX later, hopefully they’ll go tonight. If they scrub again and I fail to wake up for the F1 in the morning, I’ll not be happy with Mr Musk...
Why do the media keep obsessing over an election .
The Tories wouldn’t dare go for one until Brexit is done and their poll ratings improve .
Their poll ratings aren't going to improve (not with this leader and possibly not with any leader)
They've betrayed their voters and they're finished.
Yet more overhysteria from you, the 37% the Tories are on even on this poll is the same rating Cameron got in 2015 when he won an overall majority and that was in a poll that included UKIP.
Hardly 'finished' on any definition
Gin is taking brexit very badly
Gin is a fervent supporter of Corbyn
I like to back a winner... Corbyn is looking like a winner to me. Tories are looking like losers.
Why do the media keep obsessing over an election .
The Tories wouldn’t dare go for one until Brexit is done and their poll ratings improve .
Their poll ratings aren't going to improve (not with this leader and possibly not with any leader)
They've betrayed their voters and they're finished.
Yet more overhysteria from you, the 37% the Tories are on even on this poll is the same rating Cameron got in 2015 when he won an overall majority and that was in a poll that included UKIP.
Hardly 'finished' on any definition
Con -8. Con -10. etc
The trend is your friend...
Not really, despite 'Brexit not being Brexit' etc and we still extending Art 50 for yet another 6 months at least Corbyn still trails May as best PM and still is well short of an overall majority.
Not forgetting the Tory leader at the next general election will almost certainly be Raab or Boris once May eventually goes (either would easily win the membership vote)
Looking forward to seeing the polling for the Tories now we have the 6 month extension. Straw that broke the camel's back?
Could this be interpreted as another fail for poor old Macron? Everything he does seems to go wrong.
It looks like we have spent £1.5bn to back up Theresa May's bluff on No Deal.
I wonder whether that will make it onto the side of a bus?
It wasn't about preparing for her bluff, there was a high risk that parliamentary paralysis could see us accidentally no deal. I doubt it was all spent well, but some prep was better than none.
If the PM was set against no deal there is no chance that the Parliamentary arithmetic would have allowed no deal to happen by chance. That's a fantasy.
Two weeks ago I couldn't have told you whether Theresa May would be willing to see a no deal through in preference to holding EU elections and remaining in the EU apparently indefinitely. Now we know.
I have no time for May but throughout I’ve tended to believe she’d want to avoid no deal if at all possible .
I think we have her time in the Home Office to thank for that . We have to look back to her speeches before the EU ref campaign and her pushing through the European Arrest Warrant against some backbench push back. On security the warnings from the the head of the civil service and national security advisor have impacted her .
There’s also the impact on the Union itself .
A no deal would embolden the SNP and the next Scottish elections could prove disastrous for the Tories there . And NI regardless of the more peaceful recent years would need direct rule to enforce no deal , a boon for Sinn Fein and a border poll.
Would May want to be remembered as the PM who set in motion the break up of the UK and risked the safety of its citizens.
Having said this on revoke that’s something I’m not sure what she’d do . She’d do anything to avoid making that decision or will let MPs direct that .
Personally I’m against revoke even though I’m an ardent Remainer . Any decision to remain has to be one voters make not MPs or the PM .
I think May would rather have another extension than go anywhere near revoke .
Looking forward to seeing the polling for the Tories now we have the 6 month extension. Straw that broke the camel's back?
Could this be interpreted as another fail for poor old Macron? Everything he does seems to go wrong.
It looks like we have spent £1.5bn to back up Theresa May's bluff on No Deal.
I wonder whether that will make it onto the side of a bus?
It wasn't about preparing for her bluff, there was a high risk that parliamentary paralysis could see us accidentally no deal. I doubt it was all spent well, but some prep was better than none.
If the PM was set against no deal there is no chance that the Parliamentary arithmetic would have allowed no deal to happen by chance. That's a fantasy.
Two weeks ago I couldn't have told you whether Theresa May would be willing to see a no deal through in preference to holding EU elections and remaining in the EU apparently indefinitely. Now we know.
And we didn't then, so it could have happened. I doubt she knew a month ago.
The EU might have said No to an extension.
And they might have admitted Juncker is a drunken cronyist who would be out of his intellectual and moral depth as Chairman of Gailey Parish Council. But that was never very likely either.
So again a hung Parliament but Corbyn could choose whether to rely on the LDs for confidence and supply or the SNP (once the Scottish results added) to become PM but the SNP would give him a small working majority
Once again you are peddling this notion the LDs would put Corbyn into Downing Street and maintain him via C&S. I don't recall that being LD policy but perhaps I am misinformed?
I'm sure it isn't their policy, but are you really saying that if they held the balance of power the LDs would simply do nothing, or would they prop up the Tories in that situation? None of the options seems very likely, but backing Corbyn seems the least unlikely.
I'd assume so, but if their policy is "prop up the Tories" or "encourage unstable government", it would be a good idea to clarify. I'd have thought that they'd tested the "prop up the Tories" idea to destruction, but of course it's up to them.
Why do the media keep obsessing over an election .
The Tories wouldn’t dare go for one until Brexit is done and their poll ratings improve .
Their poll ratings aren't going to improve (not with this leader and possibly not with any leader)
They've betrayed their voters and they're finished.
Yet more overhysteria from you, the 37% the Tories are on even on this poll is the same rating Cameron got in 2015 when he won an overall majority and that was in a poll that included UKIP.
Hardly 'finished' on any definition
Gin is taking brexit very badly
Logic is also not Gin's strong point, as a PM Corbyn almost certainly means either CU and SM BINO or EUref2 or revoke given he would be reliant on the SNP and diehard Remainers on his backbenches
The entries above are for the spitzenkandidaten of Europarties (usually "European political parties", more formally "political party at European level"). Europarties are "parties of parties" that receive EU funding. Of the remaining Europarties, I don't know if the European Christian Political Movement (ECPM) or the European Democratic Party (EDP) have a spitzenkandidat, although Gert-Jan Segers is rumoured for the ECPM
But not all transnational political organisation in Europe is done via the Europarties. Other transnational political organisations are contesting the 2019 EP elections and their spitzenkandidaten may be more loosely defined or not at all. They are:
* European Alliance of People and Nations: Matteo Salvini? Jörg Meuthen? * European Spring/DEM2025: Yanis Varoufakis? * Volt Europa: none? * European Pirate Party: none? * Europe-Democracy-Esparanto: none? * European Federalist Party: none? * European Party for Individual Liberty: none? * Initiative of Communists and Workers’ Party in Europe: none? * Die Partei: Nico Semsrott? * The Movement?
I can't see much new coming that will stop us being in exactly the same position in 6 months time. I think the EU bottled the extension slightly, you either go short to force some sort of decision from the UK under time pressure or you go very long to allow proper change to happen, but they did neither and fell in-between in a neither-or half-arsed sort of way.
Maybe the Tories getting a kicking in EU Parliament elections will force a change of leader (somehow) but other than that what's going to change?
The EU might be best waiting till an emergency summit two days before no deal exit and then saying no extension and forcing the UK to either leave with no deal or revoke. Risky on all sides but I can't see what breaks the logjam now.
This is what I think May will try:
– keep the current parliamentary session running to avoid a Queens Speech – the Labour discussions are clearly going nowhere – an options vote process late April (detail sorted out during the recess) – preferential voting will be used to force a consensus outcome – accept whatever emerges (CU or CM2) as the will of the house (no worse that Labour is demanding already; avoids making concessions personally) – hope the final preference then passes a yes/no vote – deal with or ignore the matter of a future PM undoing everything – hope/whip to defeat the expected People’s Vote amendment – endeavour to get the WAIB through in time to avoid the EU elections – departure date in May or June
Ska Keller and Bas Eickhout. Joint Spitzenkandidaten of the European Green Party (EGP) for President of the European Commission in the 2019 European Parliament elections.
Looking forward to seeing the polling for the Tories now we have the 6 month extension. Straw that broke the camel's back?
Could this be interpreted as another fail for poor old Macron? Everything he does seems to go wrong.
It looks like we have spent £1.5bn to back up Theresa May's bluff on No Deal.
I wonder whether that will make it onto the side of a bus?
It wasn't about preparing for her bluff, there was a high risk that parliamentary paralysis could see us accidentally no deal. I doubt it was all spent well, but some prep was better than none.
If the PM was set against no deal there is no chance that the Parliamentary arithmetic would have allowed no deal to happen by chance. That's a fantasy.
Two weeks ago I couldn't have told you whether Theresa May would be willing to see a no deal through in preference to holding EU elections and remaining in the EU apparently indefinitely. Now we know.
And we didn't then, so it could have happened. I doubt she knew a month ago.
The EU might have said No to an extension.
And they might have admitted Juncker is a drunken cronyist who would be out of his intellectual and moral depth as Chairman of Gailey Parish Council. But that was never very likely either.
Actually, I thought there was a fair chance that the EU would deny us extra time to faff around.
Why do the media keep obsessing over an election .
The Tories wouldn’t dare go for one until Brexit is done and their poll ratings improve .
Their poll ratings aren't going to improve (not with this leader and possibly not with any leader)
They've betrayed their voters and they're finished.
Yet more overhysteria from you, the 37% the Tories are on even on this poll is the same rating Cameron got in 2015 when he won an overall majority and that was in a poll that included UKIP.
Hardly 'finished' on any definition
Con -8. Con -10. etc
The trend is your friend...
If the Tories were facing Balls or International Rescue SPAD boy, they'd be on about 25
If they were facing grownups, we’d have most likely left on 29th March with Mrs May’s Deal. For all the Parliamentary theatre, they’d have voted to respect the implementation of the referendum.
Really interesting question to the PM by Nigel Dodds, and referenced on TPT, regarding the Parliamentary session.
If there’s going to be six months of Brexit limbo, there’s pretty much going to have to be a Queen’s Speech - given that the last was two years ago following the June 2017 election.
Notice, answer came there none.
Indeed so, and also that it came from the source of her wafer-thin majority.
I think the DUP are about to pull the plug, we could be looking at an election before the summer. They have decided that the deal is not acceptable to them, the EU have decided it’s not up for negotiation and the PM intends to try and keep it alive after it’s been voted down three times.
I doubt if a new election would be to their benefit.
They’re in a difficult situation, in that they can’t support the government on the detail of their major (only!) policy, yet quite like the power they have as kingmakers, but not enough to get the Stormont Assembly back up even when there’s a billion extra in the kitty.
Mrs May screwed up big time by not involving the DUP in the latter stages of the WA negotiations. Maybe they’ll vote against in a VoNC to see the back of her, then back another Conservative as a temporary leader?
The DUP is close to losing its pivotal position anyway following the loss of 3 Tories to TIG and 1 sitting on the opposition benches as an Independent. Were there to be a by election at Brecon & Radnor and a loss to the LDs , they might see little point in further propping up the Tories.
I can't see much new coming that will stop us being in exactly the same position in 6 months time. I think the EU bottled the extension slightly, you either go short to force some sort of decision from the UK under time pressure or you go very long to allow proper change to happen, but they did neither and fell in-between in a neither-or half-arsed sort of way.
Maybe the Tories getting a kicking in EU Parliament elections will force a change of leader (somehow) but other than that what's going to change?
The EU might be best waiting till an emergency summit two days before no deal exit and then saying no extension and forcing the UK to either leave with no deal or revoke. Risky on all sides but I can't see what breaks the logjam now.
On Buttigeig: how are we pronouncing that? I assume it's not the buttygeeg my brain reads it as?
Looking forward to seeing the polling for the Tories now we have the 6 month extension. Straw that broke the camel's back?
Could this be interpreted as another fail for poor old Macron? Everything he does seems to go wrong.
It looks like we have spent £1.5bn to back up Theresa May's bluff on No Deal.
I wonder whether that will make it onto the side of a bus?
It wasn't about preparing for her bluff, there was a high risk that parliamentary paralysis could see us accidentally no deal. I doubt it was all spent well, but some prep was better than none.
If the PM was set against no deal there is no chance that the Parliamentary arithmetic would have allowed no deal to happen by chance. That's a fantasy.
Two weeks ago I couldn't have told you whether Theresa May would be willing to see a no deal through in preference to holding EU elections and remaining in the EU apparently indefinitely. Now we know.
And we didn't then, so it could have happened. I doubt she knew a month ago.
The EU might have said No to an extension.
And they might have admitted Juncker is a drunken cronyist who would be out of his intellectual and moral depth as Chairman of Gailey Parish Council. But that was never very likely either.
Actually, I thought there was a fair chance that the EU would deny us extra time to faff around.
Taking part in European elections isn't really faffing around.
Why do the media keep obsessing over an election .
The Tories wouldn’t dare go for one until Brexit is done and their poll ratings improve .
Their poll ratings aren't going to improve (not with this leader and possibly not with any leader)
They've betrayed their voters and they're finished.
Yet more overhysteria from you, the 37% the Tories are on even on this poll is the same rating Cameron got in 2015 when he won an overall majority and that was in a poll that included UKIP.
Hardly 'finished' on any definition
Con -8. Con -10. etc
The trend is your friend...
Not really, despite 'Brexit not being Brexit' etc and we still extending Art 50 for yet another 6 months at least Corbyn still trails May as best PM and still is well short of an overall majority.
Not forgetting the Tory leader at the next general election will almost certainly be Raab or Boris once May eventually goes (either would easily win the membership vote)
Con's collapse has only just started. Lets see where they are after they've been absolutely pummeled in the EU elections.
A new leader might change Con's fortunes... But I'm unsure they have it in them to remove Theresa May and she clearly has no intention of going anywhere, so...
Looking forward to seeing the polling for the Tories now we have the 6 month extension. Straw that broke the camel's back?
Could this be interpreted as another fail for poor old Macron? Everything he does seems to go wrong.
It looks like we have spent £1.5bn to back up Theresa May's bluff on No Deal.
I wonder whether that will make it onto the side of a bus?
It wasn't about preparing for her bluff, there was a high risk that parliamentary paralysis could see us accidentally no deal. I doubt it was all spent well, but some prep was better than none.
If the PM was set against no deal there is no chance that the Parliamentary arithmetic would have allowed no deal to happen by chance. That's a fantasy.
Two weeks ago I couldn't have told you whether Theresa May would be willing to see a no deal through in preference to holding EU elections and remaining in the EU apparently indefinitely. Now we know.
And we didn't then, so it could have happened. I doubt she knew a month ago.
The EU might have said No to an extension.
And they might have admitted Juncker is a drunken cronyist who would be out of his intellectual and moral depth as Chairman of Gailey Parish Council. But that was never very likely either.
Actually, I thought there was a fair chance that the EU would deny us extra time to faff around.
Taking part in European elections isn't really faffing around.
Sure it is, since that has little bearing on us coming to a longer term decision on Brexit.
Looking forward to seeing the polling for the Tories now we have the 6 month extension. Straw that broke the camel's back?
Could this be interpreted as another fail for poor old Macron? Everything he does seems to go wrong.
It looks like we have spent £1.5bn to back up Theresa May's bluff on No Deal.
I wonder whether that will make it onto the side of a bus?
It wasn't about preparing for her bluff, there was a high risk that parliamentary paralysis could see us accidentally no deal. I doubt it was all spent well, but some prep was better than none.
If the PM was set against no deal there is no chance that the Parliamentary arithmetic would have allowed no deal to happen by chance. That's a fantasy.
Two weeks ago I couldn't have told you whether Theresa May would be willing to see a no deal through in preference to holding EU elections and remaining in the EU apparently indefinitely. Now we know.
And we didn't then, so it could have happened. I doubt she knew a month ago.
The EU might have said No to an extension.
And they might have admitted Juncker is a drunken cronyist who would be out of his intellectual and moral depth as Chairman of Gailey Parish Council. But that was never very likely either.
Actually, I thought there was a fair chance that the EU would deny us extra time to faff around.
Taking part in European elections isn't really faffing around.
Sure it is, since that has little bearing on us coming to a longer term decision on Brexit.
It depends what the result is. If the Brexit party won 10 million votes it would have an impact, likewise if Remain parties come top.
That's an argument about how much should have been spent monitoring him while he was in the embassy, which I believe they did eventually relax, not for arresting him once he became available to be arrested, so in this case seems pretty irrelevant.
I agree. Not arresting him after all this would have been ridiculous.
I'm not sure if they relaxed it but I know that they made the figure spent on it classified.
But I think we all know that this isn't what we are really arguing about, interesting points about bail jumping aside. My impression is that a plurality of PBers are cross with Assange, and broadly speaking think he had it coming. In my view this should be questioned.
My opinion is that we, the UK, have been prevailed upon to spend a great deal of money detaining someone who seriously embarrassed the US State, and to hide our reasons for doing so. Since I'm not angry with Assange for his revelations (I view them as a net positive), and I have no dog in the 'Assange vs. US State' fight, I find the whole situation irritating.
You are a veritable fount of knowledge on this, Mr Viewcode. Thank you for all the time and trouble you have taken on this.
Well, I won't be voting for him - a bloke called Corbyn stands in the way - but that Dutch Socialist guy looks pretty impressive. Fingers crossed he gets the gig and does some much needed cleaning up.
My opinion is that we, the UK, have been prevailed upon to spend a great deal of money detaining someone who seriously embarrassed the US State, and to hide our reasons for doing so. Since I'm not angry with Assange for his revelations (I view them as a net positive), and I have no dog in the 'Assange vs. US State' fight, I find the whole situation irritating.
But your opinion is wrong. We spent a great deal of money (that we should, I agree, not have had to spend) apprehending a fugitive who refused to answer any questions about alleged sexual offences.
His conduct towards the US was entirely irrelevant - until a change of government meant they wanted him too.
Perhaps someone should brief him on the terms of the US-UK extradition treaty.
And take the opportunity to remind him that NEW Labour brought it in...
Corrected for you
Distinction without a difference, frankly. Except insofar as Blair was far MORE OF A TORY than Corbyn.
Corrected for you
Blair was more of a Tory than somebody who was privately educated, grew up in a seven bedroom mansion, supports dodgy regimes in the Middle East and got his job in politics because of his family connections?
That's an argument about how much should have been spent monitoring him while he was in the embassy, which I believe they did eventually relax, not for arresting him once he became available to be arrested, so in this case seems pretty irrelevant.
I agree. Not arresting him after all this would have been ridiculous.
I'm not sure if they relaxed it but I know that they made the figure spent on it classified.
But I think we all know that this isn't what we are really arguing about, interesting points about bail jumping aside. My impression is that a plurality of PBers are cross with Assange, and broadly speaking think he had it coming. In my view this should be questioned.
My opinion is that we, the UK, have been prevailed upon to spend a great deal of money detaining someone who seriously embarrassed the US State, and to hide our reasons for doing so. Since I'm not angry with Assange for his revelations (I view them as a net positive), and I have no dog in the 'Assange vs. US State' fight, I find the whole situation irritating.
I honestly have never been much interested in the wikileaks stuff which so embarrassed the americans back then. But while he was clearly right to worry that the americans would be after him he was facing extradition to sweden back when he jumped bail, and every minute of his detention is on him, by his own choice. He does have incarceration on that point coming, but as for whether he deserves extradition to the US I could not care - if the law finds that he should not be, fine, and if it does, I will shed no tears.
Why do the media keep obsessing over an election .
The Tories wouldn’t dare go for one until Brexit is done and their poll ratings improve .
Their poll ratings aren't going to improve (not with this leader and possibly not with any leader)
They've betrayed their voters and they're finished.
Yet more overhysteria from you, the 37% the Tories are on even on this poll is the same rating Cameron got in 2015 when he won an overall majority and that was in a poll that included UKIP.
Hardly 'finished' on any definition
Con -8. Con -10. etc
The trend is your friend...
Not really, despite 'Brexit not being Brexit' etc and we still extending Art 50 for yet another 6 months at least Corbyn still trails May as best PM and still is well short of an overall majority.
Not forgetting the Tory leader at the next general election will almost certainly be Raab or Boris once May eventually goes (either would easily win the membership vote)
Con's collapse has only just started. Lets see where they are after they've been absolutely pummeled in the EU elections.
A new leader might change Con's fortunes... But I'm unsure they have it in them to remove Theresa May and she clearly has no intention of going anywhere, so...
In the 2014 Euro elections the Tories came THIRD on just 23% behind Labour and UKIP, the following year the Tories on an overall majority, the ideal the Euro elections are anything other than a protest vote is absurd.
Even if May does stay, which she has said she will do until she gets her Deal through, she is up for a VONC in December anyway and given October is the extended deadline she has to have got it through by then and will either thus depart on her own terms or likely be forced out
After a certain point, yes. That is exactly what I'm saying. Like any public body, the police has to spend money on the basis of the greatest benefit to the greatest number.
And when is that point? Who decides? What is reasonable to investigate somebody against whom very serious allegations have been made?
Now, on the substantive point it is true that this case is unusual in the length of time it has dragged on and how high profile it has been. It has also been very unusual insofar as he has been trapped in a place clearly identified and yet inaccessible to the rozzers. But you might be surprised at how much time and money is spent pursuing fugitives. For example, thousands was spent trying to extradite Ronnie Biggs, including a rather bizarre and probably unauthorised attempt at kidnap, and he was met by 100 officers on his return to the country, which seems excessive for a man with mobility problems.
I would add when we discussed this a couple of days ago, you said something rather different. You said the Assange case was clearly politically motivated because nobody bothered to pursue sex crimes in Rotherham. Now, as Cyclefree and I pointed out to you, that wasn't correct. But you still said it.
It's difficult not to come to the conclusion you are so starry eyed in your support of Assange that you are willing to say whatever is needed to exonerate him, and criticise anyone trying to put him through this funny thing called the justice system. But newsflash - the expense, the lies, the publicity, the extradition request from Virginia - they all come down, when you look at it with a cold eye, are due to Assange's extreme unwillingness to answer questions about complaints that he committed sexual misconduct. Nothing else. The fact he has done himself far more damage and spent far longer in incarceration than he would have done even if charged tried and convicted is something that would be amusing in other circumstances.
What I said about Rotherham yesterday and today are not even remotely inconsistent. You try to bring people to justice. When your resources are exhausted, you stop. See also, NHS treatment.
I agree about Ronnie Biggs.
I am sure you're not seriously suggesting that Assange is likely to be extradited to the US because he skipped bail in the UK?
That's an argument about how much should have been spent monitoring him while he was in the embassy, which I believe they did eventually relax, not for arresting him once he became available to be arrested, so in this case seems pretty irrelevant.
I agree. Not arresting him after all this would have been ridiculous.
I'm not sure if they relaxed it but I know that they made the figure spent on it classified.
But I think we all know that this isn't what we are really arguing about, interesting points about bail jumping aside. My impression is that a plurality of PBers are cross with Assange, and broadly speaking think he had it coming. In my view this should be questioned.
My opinion is that we, the UK, have been prevailed upon to spend a great deal of money detaining someone who seriously embarrassed the US State, and to hide our reasons for doing so. Since I'm not angry with Assange for his revelations (I view them as a net positive), and I have no dog in the 'Assange vs. US State' fight, I find the whole situation irritating.
Like many of his supporters you utterly ignore the rape charges he was facing, his refusal to answer questions or the plight of the women who made the allegations. And yet you have the nerve to say that the police should spend the money investigating other alleged rapes and couldn’t because of this wasted money.
One should no longer be surprised at the way that some people utterly disregard alleged crimes against women when the alleged perpetrator is a favourite of theirs. Disgusted certainly - but not surprised.
I am sure you're not seriously suggesting that Assange is likely to be extradited to the US because he skipped bail in the UK?
Anyway, night all.
Yes. That is exactly why he is now facing extradition to the US. If he had gone to Sweden, it would likely not have happened due to the formidable extra problems it would have raised. The penny drops at last.
So again a hung Parliament but Corbyn could choose whether to rely on the LDs for confidence and supply or the SNP (once the Scottish results added) to become PM but the SNP would give him a small working majority
In reality Jezza will win a very healthy overall majority whenever the Tories dare face the electorate.
In reality he would not, he will only get into No 10 with the support of the SNP on almost every current poll.
Corbyn needs a lead of at least 7% over the Tories even for a majority of 1 unless Scottish Labour again wins most seats in Scotland
A lot will depend on Scotland, but if Labour does as well as implied by the Survation poll for just England & Wales , I would expect substantial Labour gains there following a Westminster election campaign.
In cases where there is low-volume betting and a highly-informed core of punters, there is the possibility to make money. Problem is I have a bucket of IRL work to do (I've been given a dongle thing so I can work from home, which means - yes! - absolutely no time off!) so I can't do an article for @TheScreamingEagles , unfortunately. Hence the comments section.
Comments
(Having said that, there is less evidence than I thought there might be that WikiLeaks has resulted in deaths of informants, as many politicians have claimed. Would genuinely surprise me if it's been costless though, and if it was, then that can only be due to lack of competence or resources at sundry organisations that could have done real harm with the information.)
I wonder whether that will make it onto the side of a bus?
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/752202/Budget_2018_red_web.pdf#page=31
It is unforgivable.
Like perjury it undermines the justice system and should be harshly punished
Why not?
https://twitter.com/menleuropa/status/1112758009313312768
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Movement_for_a_Europe_of_Nations_and_Freedom
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe_of_Nations_and_Freedom
https://www.facebook.com/MENLeuropa/photos/a.1106865449409269/2092091634219974/?type=3&theater
https://europeelects.eu/2019spitzenkandidaten/
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/elections-press-kit/2/lead-candidates
https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/cgi-bin/usercode.py?CON=37&LAB=41&LIB=10&UKIP=7&Green=2&NewLAB=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVUKIP=&TVGreen=&SCOTCON=&SCOTLAB=&SCOTLIB=&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTGreen=&SCOTNAT=&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2017
So again a hung Parliament but Corbyn could choose whether to rely on the LDs for confidence and supply or the SNP (once the Scottish results added) to become PM but the SNP would give him a small working majority
By contrast everything he has said about the motivations for the charges he faced in Sweden, an international conspiracy to silence him and the private lives of his accusers, judges and prosecutors is clearly either a flat out lie or the product of a mind that is one sandwich short of a picnic.
The Tories wouldn’t dare go for one until Brexit is done and their poll ratings improve .
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-36024690
Ironic or what?
If the Rotherham sex abusers, at the moment they were first arrested and bailed prior to being charged, had jumped that bail and taken refuge in the Saudi embassy, are you saying we should have let them go because it was just too damn expensive to stop them?
Because that appears to be the ultimate logic of your position.
Two weeks ago I couldn't have told you whether Theresa May would be willing to see a no deal through in preference to holding EU elections and remaining in the EU apparently indefinitely. Now we know.
And there was some bloke last week who they arrested in South Africa 20 years after he jumped bail in Manchester
So yes, they do take it seriously
I can't see much new coming that will stop us being in exactly the same position in 6 months time. I think the EU bottled the extension slightly, you either go short to force some sort of decision from the UK under time pressure or you go very long to allow proper change to happen, but they did neither and fell in-between in a neither-or half-arsed sort of way.
Maybe the Tories getting a kicking in EU Parliament elections will force a change of leader (somehow) but other than that what's going to change?
The EU might be best waiting till an emergency summit two days before no deal exit and then saying no extension and forcing the UK to either leave with no deal or revoke. Risky on all sides but I can't see what breaks the logjam now.
On Buttigeig: how are we pronouncing that? I assume it's not the buttygeeg my brain reads it as?
I'd like to hear what the various luvvies who collectively lost a couple of hundred grand in bail money now think of Assange.
https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/1116424423953903616
They've betrayed their voters and they're finished.
Hardly 'finished' on any definition
Corbyn needs a lead of at least 7% over the Tories even for a majority of 1 unless Scottish Labour again wins most seats in Scotland
http://www.electionpolling.co.uk/battleground/targets/labour
The trend is your friend...
It's a ***** to get so near and not to land.
Now, on the substantive point it is true that this case is unusual in the length of time it has dragged on and how high profile it has been. It has also been very unusual insofar as he has been trapped in a place clearly identified and yet inaccessible to the rozzers. But you might be surprised at how much time and money is spent pursuing fugitives. For example, thousands was spent trying to extradite Ronnie Biggs, including a rather bizarre and probably unauthorised attempt at kidnap, and he was met by 100 officers on his return to the country, which seems excessive for a man with mobility problems.
I would add when we discussed this a couple of days ago, you said something rather different. You said the Assange case was clearly politically motivated because nobody bothered to pursue sex crimes in Rotherham. Now, as Cyclefree and I pointed out to you, that wasn't correct. But you still said it.
It's difficult not to come to the conclusion you are so starry eyed in your support of Assange that you are willing to say whatever is needed to exonerate him, and criticise anyone trying to put him through this funny thing called the justice system. But newsflash - the expense, the lies, the publicity, the extradition request from Virginia - they all come down, when you look at it with a cold eye, are due to Assange's extreme unwillingness to answer questions about complaints that he committed sexual misconduct. Nothing else. The fact he has done himself far more damage and spent far longer in incarceration than he would have done even if charged tried and convicted is something that would be amusing in other circumstances.
https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/1116424423953903616
Memories of the late Colin Pillinger and his Beagle team, on Christmas Day a couple of decades ago. Edit: 2003, only a decade and a half ago, I should stop wishing my life away.
Good luck to SpaceX later, hopefully they’ll go tonight. If they scrub again and I fail to wake up for the F1 in the morning, I’ll not be happy with Mr Musk...
And I don't back losers if I can help it...
Not forgetting the Tory leader at the next general election will almost certainly be Raab or Boris once May eventually goes (either would easily win the membership vote)
I think we have her time in the Home Office to thank for that . We have to look back to her speeches before the EU ref campaign and her pushing through the European Arrest Warrant against some backbench push back. On security the warnings from the the head of the civil service and national security advisor have impacted her .
There’s also the impact on the Union itself .
A no deal would embolden the SNP and the next Scottish elections could prove disastrous for the Tories there . And NI regardless of the more peaceful recent years would need direct rule to enforce no deal , a boon for Sinn Fein and a border poll.
Would May want to be remembered as the PM who set in motion the break up of the UK and risked the safety of its citizens.
Having said this on revoke that’s something I’m not sure what she’d do . She’d do anything to avoid making that decision or will let MPs direct that .
Personally I’m against revoke even though I’m an ardent Remainer . Any decision to remain has to be one voters make not MPs or the PM .
I think May would rather have another extension than go anywhere near revoke .
But not all transnational political organisation in Europe is done via the Europarties. Other transnational political organisations are contesting the 2019 EP elections and their spitzenkandidaten may be more loosely defined or not at all. They are:
* European Alliance of People and Nations: Matteo Salvini? Jörg Meuthen?
* European Spring/DEM2025: Yanis Varoufakis?
* Volt Europa: none?
* European Pirate Party: none?
* Europe-Democracy-Esparanto: none?
* European Federalist Party: none?
* European Party for Individual Liberty: none?
* Initiative of Communists and Workers’ Party in Europe: none?
* Die Partei: Nico Semsrott?
* The Movement?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Alliance_of_People_and_Nations
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_in_Europe_Movement_2025
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volt_Europa
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Pirate_Party
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe–Democracy–Esperanto
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Federalist_Party
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Party_for_Individual_Liberty
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Initiative_of_Communist_and_Workers'_Parties
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Die_PARTEI
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Movement_(populist_group)
https://europeelects.eu/2019/04/08/european-alliance-of-peoples-and-nations-what-we-know-so-far/
https://www.politico.eu/article/salvini-aims-high-with-populist-alliance-for-europe/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Democratic_Party
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Christian_Political_Movement
Apologies for any I have left out.
– keep the current parliamentary session running to avoid a Queens Speech
– the Labour discussions are clearly going nowhere
– an options vote process late April (detail sorted out during the recess)
– preferential voting will be used to force a consensus outcome
– accept whatever emerges (CU or CM2) as the will of the house (no worse that Labour is demanding already; avoids making concessions personally)
– hope the final preference then passes a yes/no vote
– deal with or ignore the matter of a future PM undoing everything
– hope/whip to defeat the expected People’s Vote amendment
– endeavour to get the WAIB through in time to avoid the EU elections
– departure date in May or June
A new leader might change Con's fortunes... But I'm unsure they have it in them to remove Theresa May and she clearly has no intention of going anywhere, so...
http://twitter.com/CapX/status/1116426943828639744
https://europeelects.eu/2019spitzenkandidaten/
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/elections-press-kit/2/lead-candidates
https://jonworth.eu/candidates-for-commission-president-2019-spitzenkandidaten/
https://europeelects.eu/ep2019/
I'm not sure if they relaxed it but I know that they made the figure spent on it classified.
But I think we all know that this isn't what we are really arguing about, interesting points about bail jumping aside. My impression is that a plurality of PBers are cross with Assange, and broadly speaking think he had it coming. In my view this should be questioned.
My opinion is that we, the UK, have been prevailed upon to spend a great deal of money detaining someone who seriously embarrassed the US State, and to hide our reasons for doing so. Since I'm not angry with Assange for his revelations (I view them as a net positive), and I have no dog in the 'Assange vs. US State' fight, I find the whole situation irritating.
Well, I won't be voting for him - a bloke called Corbyn stands in the way - but that Dutch Socialist guy looks pretty impressive. Fingers crossed he gets the gig and does some much needed cleaning up.
His conduct towards the US was entirely irrelevant - until a change of government meant they wanted him too.
Perhaps, if you know different, you can point us to the evidence.
It's a view...
Even if May does stay, which she has said she will do until she gets her Deal through, she is up for a VONC in December anyway and given October is the extended deadline she has to have got it through by then and will either thus depart on her own terms or likely be forced out
I agree about Ronnie Biggs.
I am sure you're not seriously suggesting that Assange is likely to be extradited to the US because he skipped bail in the UK?
Anyway, night all.
https://www.publicwhip.org.uk/division.php?date=2003-03-25&number=136&display=allvotes&sort=name
One should no longer be surprised at the way that some people utterly disregard alleged crimes against women when the alleged perpetrator is a favourite of theirs. Disgusted certainly - but not surprised.
In cases where there is low-volume betting and a highly-informed core of punters, there is the possibility to make money. Problem is I have a bucket of IRL work to do (I've been given a dongle thing so I can work from home, which means - yes! - absolutely no time off!) so I can't do an article for @TheScreamingEagles , unfortunately. Hence the comments section.