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  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,162
    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    nico67 said:

    I really hope Donald Tusk remains President of the EU Council after November .

    He’s fast turning into my favourite EU politician . A wonderful man who passionately believes in the EU and who still hopes against hope that the UK might change its mind .

    He is the sort of sane leader that we need. Not autocratic or bombastic and willing to find a way through the maze. The EU27 are fortunate indeed.
    If only the President of the Commission wasn't somebody who makes May look like a heavyweight.

    On that subject, do we have a list of Spitzenkandidaten yet? Or will that only be confirmed when the stitch up, er, appointment is made?
    If the UK contests the EU Parliament elections it may not be from the EPP as the Tories are in the ECR, Labour in the Party of European Socialists, UKIP in the EFD and CUK presumably will join ALDE
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,131
    edited April 2019
    isam said:

    Mr. Isam, reminds me of Yes, Prime Minister, with the broadcast. If there's no change, high energy yellow wallpaper. If there's change, traditional oak panelling.


    Do you know I have never seen an episode of that programme, nor The Thick Of It?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvYuoWyk8iU

    "... cleanse themselves from genocide and apply for re-admission to the human race...."
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,491
    Danny565 said:

    Scott_P said:
    Ugh, I thought Abbott was more sensible than that (atleast she seemed to not be as naive as Jegsy on the whole Russia/Salisbury saga).
    Is she un-sensible for believing it or for saying it? If it's the former, I'm puzzled as to what other conclusion to draw?
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    Foxy said:

    nico67 said:

    I really hope Donald Tusk remains President of the EU Council after November .

    He’s fast turning into my favourite EU politician . A wonderful man who passionately believes in the EU and who still hopes against hope that the UK might change its mind .

    He is the sort of sane leader that we need. Not autocratic or bombastic and willing to find a way through the maze. The EU27 are fortunate indeed.
    EU26. Poland hate him.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    edited April 2019

    Was there another vote on changing exit day in UK legislation, or is that still set at June 30th following the vote on Tuesday?

    There’s no vote . The negative procedure for the statutory instrument is in operation . Effectively there’s 40 days for a thing called a prayer to happen . But even then it might not get debated and voted on . The last extension had an affirmative procedure and that’s why you needed a vote in both houses .
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,131
    isam said:

    Mr. Isam, reminds me of Yes, Prime Minister, with the broadcast. If there's no change, high energy yellow wallpaper. If there's change, traditional oak panelling.


    Do you know I have never seen an episode of that programme, nor The Thick Of It?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVYqB0uTKlE

    Sir Humphrey: Minister, Britain has had the same foreign policy objective for at least the last five hundred years: to create a disunited Europe. In that cause we have fought with the Dutch against the Spanish, with the Germans against the French, with the French and Italians against the Germans, and with the French against the Germans and Italians. Divide and rule, you see. Why should we change now, when it's worked so well?

    Hacker: That's all ancient history, surely?

    Sir Humphrey: Yes, and current policy. We had to break the whole thing up, so we had to get inside. We tried to break it up from the outside, but that wouldn't work. Now that we're inside we can make a complete pig's breakfast of the whole thing — set the Germans against the French, the French against the Italians, the Italians against the Dutch... The Foreign Office is terribly pleased; it's just like old times.

    Hacker: But surely we're all committed to the European ideal?

    Sir Humphrey: [chuckles] Really, Minister.

    Hacker: If not, why are we pushing for an increase in the membership?

    Sir Humphrey: Well, for the same reason. It's just like the United Nations, in fact; the more members it has, the more arguments it can stir up, the more futile and impotent it becomes.

    Hacker: What appalling cynicism.

    Sir Humphrey: Yes... We call it diplomacy, Minister.
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    nico67 said:

    Was there another vote on changing exit day in UK legislation, or is that still set at June 30th following the vote on Tuesday?

    There’s no vote . The negative procedure for the statutory instrument is in operation . Effectively there’s 40 days for a thing called a prayer to happen . But even then it might not get debated and voted on . The last extension had an affirmative procedure and that’s why you needed a vote in both houses .
    Thanks. I don't think I will ever have even a basic grasp of Parliamentary procedure.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    Danny565 said:

    Scott_P said:
    Ugh, I thought Abbott was more sensible than that (atleast she seemed to not be as naive as Jegsy on the whole Russia/Salisbury saga).
    Is she un-sensible for believing it or for saying it? If it's the former, I'm puzzled as to what other conclusion to draw?
    Well, for a start he isn't being perused. But for another thing, ultimately he is now being pursued because he continues to try and obtain and disseminate classified information. It's worth remembering Abbott was a member of a government that had an opposition MP arrested and his office at the House of Commons searched for far less serious breaches.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,870

    nico67 said:

    Was there another vote on changing exit day in UK legislation, or is that still set at June 30th following the vote on Tuesday?

    There’s no vote . The negative procedure for the statutory instrument is in operation . Effectively there’s 40 days for a thing called a prayer to happen . But even then it might not get debated and voted on . The last extension had an affirmative procedure and that’s why you needed a vote in both houses .
    Thanks. I don't think I will ever have even a basic grasp of Parliamentary procedure.
    It was a clever amendment that the Government got the Lords to make to Cooper-Letwin, avoiding the need for a vote to change the exit date by ensuring the legislation was amended automatically.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited April 2019

    Danny565 said:

    Scott_P said:
    Ugh, I thought Abbott was more sensible than that (atleast she seemed to not be as naive as Jegsy on the whole Russia/Salisbury saga).
    Is she un-sensible for believing it or for saying it? If it's the former, I'm puzzled as to what other conclusion to draw?
    Well, both I guess. I'm not sure how I feel about him potentially being extradited to the US over the Wikileaks thing, but I've really got no sympathy for him skipping bail or the Swedish sexual assault allegations.

    But, even if she does genuinely believe Assange is a victim, it's annoying that she's given the media the opportunity to rake Labour over the coals again, and for such a pointless cause - at very best, Assange is an obnoxious dickhead who can fight his own battles without Labour sacrificing themselves for him.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    nico67 said:

    I really hope Donald Tusk remains President of the EU Council after November .

    He’s fast turning into my favourite EU politician . A wonderful man who passionately believes in the EU and who still hopes against hope that the UK might change its mind .

    nico67 said:

    I really hope Donald Tusk remains President of the EU Council after November .

    He’s fast turning into my favourite EU politician . A wonderful man who passionately believes in the EU and who still hopes against hope that the UK might change its mind .

    He can't remain - it's a fixed 30-month term which can be renewed only once, and his second term expires 30th Nov.
    That is such a shame. If only we had someone like him here.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    nico67 said:

    Was there another vote on changing exit day in UK legislation, or is that still set at June 30th following the vote on Tuesday?

    There’s no vote . The negative procedure for the statutory instrument is in operation . Effectively there’s 40 days for a thing called a prayer to happen . But even then it might not get debated and voted on . The last extension had an affirmative procedure and that’s why you needed a vote in both houses .
    Thanks. I don't think I will ever have even a basic grasp of Parliamentary procedure.
    Have you ever considered a career as an MP? :smile:
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,870
    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    nico67 said:

    I really hope Donald Tusk remains President of the EU Council after November .

    He’s fast turning into my favourite EU politician . A wonderful man who passionately believes in the EU and who still hopes against hope that the UK might change its mind .

    He is the sort of sane leader that we need. Not autocratic or bombastic and willing to find a way through the maze. The EU27 are fortunate indeed.
    If only the President of the Commission wasn't somebody who makes May look like a heavyweight.

    On that subject, do we have a list of Spitzenkandidaten yet? Or will that only be confirmed when the stitch up, er, appointment is made?
    After the Euro elections. Current betting is that the socialist group might be in the driving seat.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    IanB2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    nico67 said:

    I really hope Donald Tusk remains President of the EU Council after November .

    He’s fast turning into my favourite EU politician . A wonderful man who passionately believes in the EU and who still hopes against hope that the UK might change its mind .

    He is the sort of sane leader that we need. Not autocratic or bombastic and willing to find a way through the maze. The EU27 are fortunate indeed.
    If only the President of the Commission wasn't somebody who makes May look like a heavyweight.

    On that subject, do we have a list of Spitzenkandidaten yet? Or will that only be confirmed when the stitch up, er, appointment is made?
    After the Euro elections. Current betting is that the socialist group might be in the driving seat.
    Do we know anything about their candidate? I am genuinely interested, not just being awkward!
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    edited April 2019

    nico67 said:

    Was there another vote on changing exit day in UK legislation, or is that still set at June 30th following the vote on Tuesday?

    There’s no vote . The negative procedure for the statutory instrument is in operation . Effectively there’s 40 days for a thing called a prayer to happen . But even then it might not get debated and voted on . The last extension had an affirmative procedure and that’s why you needed a vote in both houses .
    Thanks. I don't think I will ever have even a basic grasp of Parliamentary procedure.
    You’re welcome , even though I’ve been a political junkie for many years the Brexit saga has delivered lots of new things . I think it’s highlighted just how important the Speaker is with the Tories having no effective majority .

    Bercow has become a bit of a hit globally , he’s been featured on tv aswell as appearing in several publications like Der Spiegel and La Republica . He’s become quite the star .
  • ydoethur said:

    nico67 said:

    Was there another vote on changing exit day in UK legislation, or is that still set at June 30th following the vote on Tuesday?

    There’s no vote . The negative procedure for the statutory instrument is in operation . Effectively there’s 40 days for a thing called a prayer to happen . But even then it might not get debated and voted on . The last extension had an affirmative procedure and that’s why you needed a vote in both houses .
    Thanks. I don't think I will ever have even a basic grasp of Parliamentary procedure.
    Have you ever considered a career as an MP? :smile:
    TIGs or Change UK to be correct have sent me an application to apply to represent them at the EU elections

    I did not know they read this forum but not at my age though if the Bakers, Francois and Cash continue their ultra wrecking manoeuvers I would vote in a GE for them if the conservative was an ERG member
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    Danny565 said:

    Danny565 said:

    Scott_P said:
    Ugh, I thought Abbott was more sensible than that (atleast she seemed to not be as naive as Jegsy on the whole Russia/Salisbury saga).
    Is she un-sensible for believing it or for saying it? If it's the former, I'm puzzled as to what other conclusion to draw?
    Well, both I guess. I'm not sure how I feel about him potentially being extradited to the US over the Wikileaks thing, but I've really got no sympathy for him skipping bail or the Swedish sexual assault allegations.

    But, even if she does genuinely believe Assange is a victim, it's annoying that she's given the media the opportunity to rake Labour over the coals again, and for such a pointless cause.
    It also means that were she to become Home Secretary and have to make a decision on his case, she might have to resile from making the decision on the basis that her previous utterances show that she is not impartial and would not consider the relevant material fairly. The state seeking extradition might make such a case. Of course, Abbott and Corbyn might not care about pissing off the US, indeed might think it a badge of honour. But the rest of us should be concerned about having a Home Secretary who does not follow due process. And what if the US takes the Home Secretary to court and wins?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318

    ydoethur said:

    nico67 said:

    Was there another vote on changing exit day in UK legislation, or is that still set at June 30th following the vote on Tuesday?

    There’s no vote . The negative procedure for the statutory instrument is in operation . Effectively there’s 40 days for a thing called a prayer to happen . But even then it might not get debated and voted on . The last extension had an affirmative procedure and that’s why you needed a vote in both houses .
    Thanks. I don't think I will ever have even a basic grasp of Parliamentary procedure.
    Have you ever considered a career as an MP? :smile:
    TIGs or Change UK to be correct have sent me an application to apply to represent them at the EU elections

    I did not know they read this forum but not at my age though if the Bakers, Francois and Cash continue their ultra wrecking manoeuvers I would vote in a GE for them if the conservative was an ERG member
    I am, I have to say, a teensy bit tempted.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,131
    edited April 2019
    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    nico67 said:

    I really hope Donald Tusk remains President of the EU Council after November .

    He’s fast turning into my favourite EU politician . A wonderful man who passionately believes in the EU and who still hopes against hope that the UK might change its mind .

    He is the sort of sane leader that we need. Not autocratic or bombastic and willing to find a way through the maze. The EU27 are fortunate indeed.
    If only the President of the Commission wasn't somebody who makes May look like a heavyweight.

    On that subject, do we have a list of Spitzenkandidaten yet? Or will that only be confirmed when the stitch up, er, appointment is made?
    After the Euro elections. Current betting is that the socialist group might be in the driving seat.
    Do we know anything about their candidate? I am genuinely interested, not just being awkward!
    Frans Timmermans. Spitzenkandidat of the Party of European Socialists (PES) for President of the European Commission in the 2019 European Parliament elections.

    https://www.politico.eu/article/socialists-nominate-frans-timmermans-for-european-commission-president/
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frans_Timmermans
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Cyclefree said:

    Danny565 said:

    Danny565 said:

    Scott_P said:
    Ugh, I thought Abbott was more sensible than that (atleast she seemed to not be as naive as Jegsy on the whole Russia/Salisbury saga).
    Is she un-sensible for believing it or for saying it? If it's the former, I'm puzzled as to what other conclusion to draw?
    Well, both I guess. I'm not sure how I feel about him potentially being extradited to the US over the Wikileaks thing, but I've really got no sympathy for him skipping bail or the Swedish sexual assault allegations.

    But, even if she does genuinely believe Assange is a victim, it's annoying that she's given the media the opportunity to rake Labour over the coals again, and for such a pointless cause.
    It also means that were she to become Home Secretary and have to make a decision on his case, she might have to resile from making the decision on the basis that her previous utterances show that she is not impartial and would not consider the relevant material fairly. The state seeking extradition might make such a case. Of course, Abbott and Corbyn might not care about pissing off the US, indeed might think it a badge of honour. But the rest of us should be concerned about having a Home Secretary who does not follow due process. And what if the US takes the Home Secretary to court and wins?
    Please don't even think about it. World popcorn supplies are already dangerously stretched.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,162
    edited April 2019
    IanB2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    nico67 said:

    I really hope Donald Tusk remains President of the EU Council after November .

    He’s fast turning into my favourite EU politician . A wonderful man who passionately believes in the EU and who still hopes against hope that the UK might change its mind .

    He is the sort of sane leader that we need. Not autocratic or bombastic and willing to find a way through the maze. The EU27 are fortunate indeed.
    If only the President of the Commission wasn't somebody who makes May look like a heavyweight.

    On that subject, do we have a list of Spitzenkandidaten yet? Or will that only be confirmed when the stitch up, er, appointment is made?
    After the Euro elections. Current betting is that the socialist group might be in the driving seat.
    Latest projection has the EPP on 22.9%, the Socialists on 18%, ALDE on 13.1%, the ECR on 8% and the ENF on 8.4% and Greens on 8.4%, GUE/NGL on 7.3% and the EFDD on 6.8% so if the Socialists come first it may be down to Labour MEPs (as that poll excluded the UK)




    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_European_Parliament_election#Seat_projections
  • Cyclefree said:

    ydoethur said:

    nico67 said:

    Was there another vote on changing exit day in UK legislation, or is that still set at June 30th following the vote on Tuesday?

    There’s no vote . The negative procedure for the statutory instrument is in operation . Effectively there’s 40 days for a thing called a prayer to happen . But even then it might not get debated and voted on . The last extension had an affirmative procedure and that’s why you needed a vote in both houses .
    Thanks. I don't think I will ever have even a basic grasp of Parliamentary procedure.
    Have you ever considered a career as an MP? :smile:
    TIGs or Change UK to be correct have sent me an application to apply to represent them at the EU elections

    I did not know they read this forum but not at my age though if the Bakers, Francois and Cash continue their ultra wrecking manoeuvers I would vote in a GE for them if the conservative was an ERG member
    I am, I have to say, a teensy bit tempted.
    When I was younger so could I
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    viewcode said:

    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    nico67 said:

    I really hope Donald Tusk remains President of the EU Council after November .

    He’s fast turning into my favourite EU politician . A wonderful man who passionately believes in the EU and who still hopes against hope that the UK might change its mind .

    He is the sort of sane leader that we need. Not autocratic or bombastic and willing to find a way through the maze. The EU27 are fortunate indeed.
    If only the President of the Commission wasn't somebody who makes May look like a heavyweight.

    On that subject, do we have a list of Spitzenkandidaten yet? Or will that only be confirmed when the stitch up, er, appointment is made?
    After the Euro elections. Current betting is that the socialist group might be in the driving seat.
    Do we know anything about their candidate? I am genuinely interested, not just being awkward!
    Frans Timmermans. Spitzenkandidat of the Party of European Socialists (PES) for President of the European Commission in the 2019 European elections.

    https://www.politico.eu/article/socialists-nominate-frans-timmermans-for-european-commission-president/
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frans_Timmermans
    Ta muchly.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Cyclefree said:

    ydoethur said:

    nico67 said:

    Was there another vote on changing exit day in UK legislation, or is that still set at June 30th following the vote on Tuesday?

    There’s no vote . The negative procedure for the statutory instrument is in operation . Effectively there’s 40 days for a thing called a prayer to happen . But even then it might not get debated and voted on . The last extension had an affirmative procedure and that’s why you needed a vote in both houses .
    Thanks. I don't think I will ever have even a basic grasp of Parliamentary procedure.
    Have you ever considered a career as an MP? :smile:
    TIGs or Change UK to be correct have sent me an application to apply to represent them at the EU elections

    I did not know they read this forum but not at my age though if the Bakers, Francois and Cash continue their ultra wrecking manoeuvers I would vote in a GE for them if the conservative was an ERG member
    I am, I have to say, a teensy bit tempted.
    I might have been tempted - even though standing for them in the West Midlands would be an exercise in being hit over the head with a cricket bat.

    But I haven't been asked.
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,591
    I think May has come to realise that the ERG and DUP will never support any deal and she has been forced to allow reality to intrude. It's clear she is no longer willing to see a no deal departure and she is serious about wanting a cross party agreement, which she knows will split the Tories. She must know that a customs union and a second referendum would have to form part of such an agreement and maybe it is no longer inconceivable that she will accept that. She can never be the hero of the Brexiteers so she just might decide to become the hero of the remainers instead.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,131
    ydoethur said:

    viewcode said:

    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    nico67 said:

    I really hope Donald Tusk remains President of the EU Council after November .

    He’s fast turning into my favourite EU politician . A wonderful man who passionately believes in the EU and who still hopes against hope that the UK might change its mind .

    He is the sort of sane leader that we need. Not autocratic or bombastic and willing to find a way through the maze. The EU27 are fortunate indeed.
    If only the President of the Commission wasn't somebody who makes May look like a heavyweight.

    On that subject, do we have a list of Spitzenkandidaten yet? Or will that only be confirmed when the stitch up, er, appointment is made?
    After the Euro elections. Current betting is that the socialist group might be in the driving seat.
    Do we know anything about their candidate? I am genuinely interested, not just being awkward!
    Frans Timmermans. Spitzenkandidat of the Party of European Socialists (PES) for President of the European Commission in the 2019 European elections.

    https://www.politico.eu/article/socialists-nominate-frans-timmermans-for-european-commission-president/
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frans_Timmermans
    Ta muchly.
    You're welcome [hat-tip]
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    edited April 2019
    IanB2 said:

    nico67 said:

    Was there another vote on changing exit day in UK legislation, or is that still set at June 30th following the vote on Tuesday?

    There’s no vote . The negative procedure for the statutory instrument is in operation . Effectively there’s 40 days for a thing called a prayer to happen . But even then it might not get debated and voted on . The last extension had an affirmative procedure and that’s why you needed a vote in both houses .
    Thanks. I don't think I will ever have even a basic grasp of Parliamentary procedure.
    It was a clever amendment that the Government got the Lords to make to Cooper-Letwin, avoiding the need for a vote to change the exit date by ensuring the legislation was amended automatically.
    Yes that was very important especially given the short timeframe , also allowing May the freedom to agree an extension as long as it was later than May 22 nd.

    The original bill was flawed even though its intentions were good . I’m not sure I could have coped with the stress if May had to come back and get MPs to agree the longer extension today . And the EU leaders would already have left the summit so logistically it could have caused problems .

    Lord Pannick of Gina Miller fame was one of the crossbenchers who rang the alarm bells . And he and others did everything they could given the scope of the bill to stop an accidental no deal .
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,383
    George Eaton seems to be an interviewer in the mould of Johan Hari.
  • I think May has come to realise that the ERG and DUP will never support any deal and she has been forced to allow reality to intrude. It's clear she is no longer willing to see a no deal departure and she is serious about wanting a cross party agreement, which she knows will split the Tories. She must know that a customs union and a second referendum would have to form part of such an agreement and maybe it is no longer inconceivable that she will accept that. She can never be the hero of the Brexiteers so she just might decide to become the hero of the remainers instead.
    She has my backing for that process which may end up with a referendum and UK remaining

    If the ERG want to vote against their government in a vonc the whip would go and the party would be purged of the irreconcilable ultras
  • DruttDrutt Posts: 1,124
    ydoethur said:

    Well I suppose anyone confronted by a knife-wielding thug tonight can draw comfort from the fact that Assange has been nailed.

    Well, we no longer have to waste police time pursuing a fugitive who is clearly either deranged or so dishonest that he is more or less divorced from reality anyway.

    To be blunt, his best course of action is probably to claim insanity, in which case it's unlikely he would be extradited even to Sweden.
    The stakeout op cost £4M in its first year. That's the cost of 40 FTE Met coppers plus all the support they need.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,039

    I think May has come to realise that the ERG and DUP will never support any deal and she has been forced to allow reality to intrude. It's clear she is no longer willing to see a no deal departure and she is serious about wanting a cross party agreement, which she knows will split the Tories. She must know that a customs union and a second referendum would have to form part of such an agreement and maybe it is no longer inconceivable that she will accept that. She can never be the hero of the Brexiteers so she just might decide to become the hero of the remainers instead.
    It has taken a long, long time for the penny to drop. It has blindingly obvious for months that the only way to build a majority was by turning left rather than right.
  • I think May has come to realise that the ERG and DUP will never support any deal and she has been forced to allow reality to intrude. It's clear she is no longer willing to see a no deal departure and she is serious about wanting a cross party agreement, which she knows will split the Tories. She must know that a customs union and a second referendum would have to form part of such an agreement and maybe it is no longer inconceivable that she will accept that. She can never be the hero of the Brexiteers so she just might decide to become the hero of the remainers instead.
    It has taken a long, long time for the penny to drop. It has blindingly obvious for months that the only way to build a majority was by turning left rather than right.
    Turning to the centre is the way
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited April 2019
    "No Deal" officially dead, don't leave tributes:

    https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1116399291235479552
  • Danny565 said:

    "No Deal" officially dead, don't send cards:

    https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1116392568923860992

    Good
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Drutt said:

    ydoethur said:

    Well I suppose anyone confronted by a knife-wielding thug tonight can draw comfort from the fact that Assange has been nailed.

    Well, we no longer have to waste police time pursuing a fugitive who is clearly either deranged or so dishonest that he is more or less divorced from reality anyway.

    To be blunt, his best course of action is probably to claim insanity, in which case it's unlikely he would be extradited even to Sweden.
    The stakeout op cost £4M in its first year. That's the cost of 40 FTE Met coppers plus all the support they need.
    Would be nice to think there was a way of getting that money back. Do you suppose Pamela Anderson would stump up for it?
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406
    Robert Peston might have got something right although I suspect it's be accident

    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1116398686219776006

    Labour can't campaign for revoke as it will annoy Northern Leave MPs. It can't campaign for the a Deal as that wil annoy the South. A peoples' vote offers them a safe and easy way to campaign in the EU elections without hurting anyone.

    Now where are the odds for Labour to win most votes and seats..
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,580

    I think May has come to realise that the ERG and DUP will never support any deal and she has been forced to allow reality to intrude. It's clear she is no longer willing to see a no deal departure and she is serious about wanting a cross party agreement, which she knows will split the Tories. She must know that a customs union and a second referendum would have to form part of such an agreement and maybe it is no longer inconceivable that she will accept that. She can never be the hero of the Brexiteers so she just might decide to become the hero of the remainers instead.
    She has my backing for that process which may end up with a referendum and UK remaining

    If the ERG want to vote against their government in a vonc the whip would go and the party would be purged of the irreconcilable ultras
    I think under those circumstances you would find that all 'the party' would be left with is a skeleton whilst most of its members, activists and supporters went elsewhere. Together with the majority of its MPs. I make no comment on the rights or wrongs of the ERG and think they have been very stupid in how they have handled the whole Brexit situation but right now they certainly appear to have more support at the grassroots than May does.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,870

    I think May has come to realise that the ERG and DUP will never support any deal and she has been forced to allow reality to intrude. It's clear she is no longer willing to see a no deal departure and she is serious about wanting a cross party agreement, which she knows will split the Tories. She must know that a customs union and a second referendum would have to form part of such an agreement and maybe it is no longer inconceivable that she will accept that. She can never be the hero of the Brexiteers so she just might decide to become the hero of the remainers instead.
    No, actually she will let the Labour talks run into the sand. She knows they wont settle for anything less than a full CU (see Corbyn's response in the HoC earlier), which would be humiliating and damaging for her to concede. She knows that if she pushes the "indicative options" process to a conclusion, after the recess, the favoured option that will emerge is almost certainly CU (and if not, CM2, which is better from her perspective) and hence she now intends to let the Commons identify CU as the way forward. That way she doesn't have to concede it herself, just follow the 'will of the House'.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,162

    I think May has come to realise that the ERG and DUP will never support any deal and she has been forced to allow reality to intrude. It's clear she is no longer willing to see a no deal departure and she is serious about wanting a cross party agreement, which she knows will split the Tories. She must know that a customs union and a second referendum would have to form part of such an agreement and maybe it is no longer inconceivable that she will accept that. She can never be the hero of the Brexiteers so she just might decide to become the hero of the remainers instead.
    A CU maybe, a referendum was much further from a Commons majority.

    Plus May made clear she will hold more indicative votes in the Commons if talks with Labour break down
  • HYUFD said:

    I think May has come to realise that the ERG and DUP will never support any deal and she has been forced to allow reality to intrude. It's clear she is no longer willing to see a no deal departure and she is serious about wanting a cross party agreement, which she knows will split the Tories. She must know that a customs union and a second referendum would have to form part of such an agreement and maybe it is no longer inconceivable that she will accept that. She can never be the hero of the Brexiteers so she just might decide to become the hero of the remainers instead.
    A CU maybe, a referendum was much further from a Commons majority.

    Plus May made clear she will hold more indicative votes in the Commons if talks with Labour break down
    And there lies the referendum
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Drutt said:

    ydoethur said:

    Well I suppose anyone confronted by a knife-wielding thug tonight can draw comfort from the fact that Assange has been nailed.

    Well, we no longer have to waste police time pursuing a fugitive who is clearly either deranged or so dishonest that he is more or less divorced from reality anyway.

    To be blunt, his best course of action is probably to claim insanity, in which case it's unlikely he would be extradited even to Sweden.
    The stakeout op cost £4M in its first year. That's the cost of 40 FTE Met coppers plus all the support they need.
    Incidentally, that figure is interesting because we were told a couple of years back in Labour's fully costed manifesto that the cost of 10,000 extra police officers was £300 million (well, Diane Abbott said 'thousand' but she meant million).

    But if the cost of 40 full time officers is £4 million, that means the cost of ten thousand extra officers would have been somewhat closer to £1 billion.

    Not that I'm doubting your figures...in fact they sound about right to me...

    Just saying...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,162

    HYUFD said:

    I think May has come to realise that the ERG and DUP will never support any deal and she has been forced to allow reality to intrude. It's clear she is no longer willing to see a no deal departure and she is serious about wanting a cross party agreement, which she knows will split the Tories. She must know that a customs union and a second referendum would have to form part of such an agreement and maybe it is no longer inconceivable that she will accept that. She can never be the hero of the Brexiteers so she just might decide to become the hero of the remainers instead.
    A CU maybe, a referendum was much further from a Commons majority.

    Plus May made clear she will hold more indicative votes in the Commons if talks with Labour break down
    And there lies the referendum
    It does not have the votes, a CU probably does, certainly after preferences which May did not rule out today
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,383

    I think May has come to realise that the ERG and DUP will never support any deal and she has been forced to allow reality to intrude. It's clear she is no longer willing to see a no deal departure and she is serious about wanting a cross party agreement, which she knows will split the Tories. She must know that a customs union and a second referendum would have to form part of such an agreement and maybe it is no longer inconceivable that she will accept that. She can never be the hero of the Brexiteers so she just might decide to become the hero of the remainers instead.
    She has my backing for that process which may end up with a referendum and UK remaining

    If the ERG want to vote against their government in a vonc the whip would go and the party would be purged of the irreconcilable ultras
    I think under those circumstances you would find that all 'the party' would be left with is a skeleton whilst most of its members, activists and supporters went elsewhere. Together with the majority of its MPs. I make no comment on the rights or wrongs of the ERG and think they have been very stupid in how they have handled the whole Brexit situation but right now they certainly appear to have more support at the grassroots than May does.
    I think that's correct. If May were to concede both CU and a second referendum, she would be left with a minority of the Conservative Party. It's not just the ERG who would baulk at that.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Danny565 said:

    "No Deal" officially dead, don't leave tributes:

    https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1116399291235479552

    Operation Brock has officially been badgered into submission.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    ydoethur said:

    Danny565 said:

    "No Deal" officially dead, don't leave tributes:

    https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1116399291235479552

    Operation Brock has officially been badgered into submission.
    Your puns sett a high standard.
  • DruttDrutt Posts: 1,124
    eek said:

    Robert Peston might have got something right although I suspect it's be accident

    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1116398686219776006

    Labour can't campaign for revoke as it will annoy Northern Leave MPs. It can't campaign for the a Deal as that wil annoy the South. A peoples' vote offers them a safe and easy way to campaign in the EU elections without hurting anyone.

    Now where are the odds for Labour to win most votes and seats..

    What side would Labour campaign for in such a PV? 'Their' deal, or Remain?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Ishmael_Z said:

    ydoethur said:

    Danny565 said:

    "No Deal" officially dead, don't leave tributes:

    https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1116399291235479552

    Operation Brock has officially been badgered into submission.
    Your puns sett a high standard.
    Have I earned my stripes?
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    ydoethur said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    ydoethur said:

    Danny565 said:

    "No Deal" officially dead, don't leave tributes:

    https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1116399291235479552

    Operation Brock has officially been badgered into submission.
    Your puns sett a high standard.
    Have I earned my stripes?
    Best to call a holt to this.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,162
    edited April 2019
    Sean_F said:

    She has my backing for that process which may end up with a referendum and UK remaining

    If the ERG want to vote against their government in a vonc the whip would go and the party would be purged of the irreconcilable ultras
    I think under those circumstances you would find that all 'the party' would be left with is a skeleton whilst most of its members, activists and supporters went elsewhere. Together with the majority of its MPs. I make no comment on the rights or wrongs of the ERG and think they have been very stupid in how they have handled the whole Brexit situation but right now they certainly appear to have more support at the grassroots than May does.
    I think that's correct. If May were to concede both CU and a second referendum, she would be left with a minority of the Conservative Party. It's not just the ERG who would baulk at that.
    Yes, the Tories would go the way of the Progressive Conservatives in Canada, especially if that referendum led to Remain and be overtaken on the right by the Brexit Party as the Reform Party overtook the PCs in 1993, the PCs only returning to power in 2006 after the 2 parties merged in 2003 to form the Conservative Party of Canada
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    Drutt said:

    eek said:

    Robert Peston might have got something right although I suspect it's be accident

    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1116398686219776006

    Labour can't campaign for revoke as it will annoy Northern Leave MPs. It can't campaign for the a Deal as that wil annoy the South. A peoples' vote offers them a safe and easy way to campaign in the EU elections without hurting anyone.

    Now where are the odds for Labour to win most votes and seats..

    What side would Labour campaign for in such a PV? 'Their' deal, or Remain?
    Free campaign. Meaning the vast majority can campaign for remain and the leadership can take a back seat.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,137
    edited April 2019
    Sean_F said:

    I think May has come to realise that the ERG and DUP will never support any deal and she has been forced to allow reality to intrude. It's clear she is no longer willing to see a no deal departure and she is serious about wanting a cross party agreement, which she knows will split the Tories. She must know that a customs union and a second referendum would have to form part of such an agreement and maybe it is no longer inconceivable that she will accept that. She can never be the hero of the Brexiteers so she just might decide to become the hero of the remainers instead.
    She has my backing for that process which may end up with a referendum and UK remaining

    If the ERG want to vote against their government in a vonc the whip would go and the party would be purged of the irreconcilable ultras
    I think under those circumstances you would find that all 'the party' would be left with is a skeleton whilst most of its members, activists and supporters went elsewhere. Together with the majority of its MPs. I make no comment on the rights or wrongs of the ERG and think they have been very stupid in how they have handled the whole Brexit situation but right now they certainly appear to have more support at the grassroots than May does.
    I think that's correct. If May were to concede both CU and a second referendum, she would be left with a minority of the Conservative Party. It's not just the ERG who would baulk at that.
    TM said today she would have amendable indicative votes that could accommodate a referendum.

    For a referendum to happen it's amendment would have to win a majority and as Hyufd says the numbers have not been there but there is some indication the momentum is with this outcome. If the HOC mandated it this way then TM would not be directly responsible, the will of the House probably aided by Bercow would be the enablers
  • DruttDrutt Posts: 1,124
    ydoethur said:

    Drutt said:

    ydoethur said:

    Well I suppose anyone confronted by a knife-wielding thug tonight can draw comfort from the fact that Assange has been nailed.

    Well, we no longer have to waste police time pursuing a fugitive who is clearly either deranged or so dishonest that he is more or less divorced from reality anyway.

    To be blunt, his best course of action is probably to claim insanity, in which case it's unlikely he would be extradited even to Sweden.
    The stakeout op cost £4M in its first year. That's the cost of 40 FTE Met coppers plus all the support they need.
    Incidentally, that figure is interesting because we were told a couple of years back in Labour's fully costed manifesto that the cost of 10,000 extra police officers was £300 million (well, Diane Abbott said 'thousand' but she meant million).

    But if the cost of 40 full time officers is £4 million, that means the cost of ten thousand extra officers would have been somewhat closer to £1 billion.

    Not that I'm doubting your figures...in fact they sound about right to me...

    Just saying...
    The Met has a budget of c£3BN and has 30k warranted officers, i.e. it takes £100kpa to 'run' a policeman.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Ishmael_Z said:

    ydoethur said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    ydoethur said:

    Danny565 said:

    "No Deal" officially dead, don't leave tributes:

    https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1116399291235479552

    Operation Brock has officially been badgered into submission.
    Your puns sett a high standard.
    Have I earned my stripes?
    Best to call a holt to this.
    Can I have an otter try?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,383

    Sean_F said:

    I think May has come to realise that the ERG and DUP will never support any deal and she has been forced to allow reality to intrude. It's clear she is no longer willing to see a no deal departure and she is serious about wanting a cross party agreement, which she knows will split the Tories. She must know that a customs union and a second referendum would have to form part of such an agreement and maybe it is no longer inconceivable that she will accept that. She can never be the hero of the Brexiteers so she just might decide to become the hero of the remainers instead.
    She has my backing for that process which may end up with a referendum and UK remaining

    If the ERG want to vote against their government in a vonc the whip would go and the party would be purged of the irreconcilable ultras
    I think under those circumstances you would find that all 'the party' would be left with is a skeleton whilst most of its members, activists and supporters went elsewhere. Together with the majority of its MPs. I make no comment on the rights or wrongs of the ERG and think they have been very stupid in how they have handled the whole Brexit situation but right now they certainly appear to have more support at the grassroots than May does.
    I think that's correct. If May were to concede both CU and a second referendum, she would be left with a minority of the Conservative Party. It's not just the ERG who would baulk at that.
    TM said today she would have amendable indicative votes that could accommodate a referendum.

    For a referendum to happen it's amendment would have to win a majority and as Hyfud says the numbers have not been there but there is some indication the momentum is with this outcome. If the HOC mandated it this way then TM would not be directly responsible, the will of the House probably aided by Bercow would be the enablers
    That doesn't contradict my post.

    Conservative MP's, members, and voters aren't just going to shrug and say that's okay.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    ydoethur said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    ydoethur said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    ydoethur said:

    Danny565 said:

    "No Deal" officially dead, don't leave tributes:

    https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1116399291235479552

    Operation Brock has officially been badgered into submission.
    Your puns sett a high standard.
    Have I earned my stripes?
    Best to call a holt to this.
    Can I have an otter try?
    If you really mustelid.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,497

    ydoethur said:

    nico67 said:

    Was there another vote on changing exit day in UK legislation, or is that still set at June 30th following the vote on Tuesday?

    There’s no vote . The negative procedure for the statutory instrument is in operation . Effectively there’s 40 days for a thing called a prayer to happen . But even then it might not get debated and voted on . The last extension had an affirmative procedure and that’s why you needed a vote in both houses .
    Thanks. I don't think I will ever have even a basic grasp of Parliamentary procedure.
    Have you ever considered a career as an MP? :smile:
    TIGs or Change UK to be correct have sent me an application to apply to represent them at the EU elections

    I did not know they read this forum but not at my age though if the Bakers, Francois and Cash continue their ultra wrecking manoeuvers I would vote in a GE for them if the conservative was an ERG member
    Doesn’t surprise me in the slightest.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    It is interesting that Labour support in the polls seem to collapse first, and now the Tories are just catching up and indeed overtaking them in terms of collapse. All quite strange.
    https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1116351585125392384
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,039
    ydoethur said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    ydoethur said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    ydoethur said:

    Danny565 said:

    "No Deal" officially dead, don't leave tributes:

    https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1116399291235479552

    Operation Brock has officially been badgered into submission.
    Your puns sett a high standard.
    Have I earned my stripes?
    Best to call a holt to this.
    Can I have an otter try?
    All these PBers beavering away to come up with puns.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,497
    viewcode said:


    isam said:

    Mr. Isam, reminds me of Yes, Prime Minister, with the broadcast. If there's no change, high energy yellow wallpaper. If there's change, traditional oak panelling.


    Do you know I have never seen an episode of that programme, nor The Thick Of It?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVYqB0uTKlE

    Sir Humphrey: Minister, Britain has had the same foreign policy objective for at least the last five hundred years: to create a disunited Europe. In that cause we have fought with the Dutch against the Spanish, with the Germans against the French, with the French and Italians against the Germans, and with the French against the Germans and Italians. Divide and rule, you see. Why should we change now, when it's worked so well?

    Hacker: That's all ancient history, surely?

    Sir Humphrey: Yes, and current policy. We had to break the whole thing up, so we had to get inside. We tried to break it up from the outside, but that wouldn't work. Now that we're inside we can make a complete pig's breakfast of the whole thing — set the Germans against the French, the French against the Italians, the Italians against the Dutch... The Foreign Office is terribly pleased; it's just like old times.

    Hacker: But surely we're all committed to the European ideal?

    Sir Humphrey: [chuckles] Really, Minister.

    Hacker: If not, why are we pushing for an increase in the membership?

    Sir Humphrey: Well, for the same reason. It's just like the United Nations, in fact; the more members it has, the more arguments it can stir up, the more futile and impotent it becomes.

    Hacker: What appalling cynicism.

    Sir Humphrey: Yes... We call it diplomacy, Minister.
    Superb writing.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,714
    Off-topic: (and without wanting to annoy Sandy):

    In ~20 minutes, an Israeli company will be attempting to land the first private-financed lander on the Moon. You can watch at:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMdUcchBYRA

    In addition, there might be the second Falcon Heavy launch later tonight.

    Space is cool.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406
    Drutt said:

    eek said:

    Robert Peston might have got something right although I suspect it's be accident

    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1116398686219776006

    Labour can't campaign for revoke as it will annoy Northern Leave MPs. It can't campaign for the a Deal as that wil annoy the South. A peoples' vote offers them a safe and easy way to campaign in the EU elections without hurting anyone.

    Now where are the odds for Labour to win most votes and seats..

    What side would Labour campaign for in such a PV? 'Their' deal, or Remain?
    Read the article as it states Corbyn would remain neutral and allow MPs to campaign for whatever side they prefer.

    After all this is only there for 2 reasons. It means that labour can campaign in the EU elections without making a commitment and after any referendum can look at any result and say not our fault...
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,383
    kle4 said:

    It is interesting that Labour support in the polls seem to collapse first, and now the Tories are just catching up and indeed overtaking them in terms of collapse. All quite strange.
    https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1116351585125392384

    Not really. It's only fear of the other side that kept support for each party so high. When one falls, the other follows.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,162
    eek said:

    Drutt said:

    eek said:

    Robert Peston might have got something right although I suspect it's be accident

    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1116398686219776006

    Labour can't campaign for revoke as it will annoy Northern Leave MPs. It can't campaign for the a Deal as that wil annoy the South. A peoples' vote offers them a safe and easy way to campaign in the EU elections without hurting anyone.

    Now where are the odds for Labour to win most votes and seats..

    What side would Labour campaign for in such a PV? 'Their' deal, or Remain?
    Read the article as it states Corbyn would remain neutral and allow MPs to campaign for whatever side they prefer.

    After all this is only there for 2 reasons. It means that labour can campaign in the EU elections without making a commitment and after any referendum can look at any result and say not our fault...
    The voters fault then?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,497
    Sean_F said:

    I think May has come to realise that the ERG and DUP will never support any deal and she has been forced to allow reality to intrude. It's clear she is no longer willing to see a no deal departure and she is serious about wanting a cross party agreement, which she knows will split the Tories. She must know that a customs union and a second referendum would have to form part of such an agreement and maybe it is no longer inconceivable that she will accept that. She can never be the hero of the Brexiteers so she just might decide to become the hero of the remainers instead.
    She has my backing for that process which may end up with a referendum and UK remaining

    If the ERG want to vote against their government in a vonc the whip would go and the party would be purged of the irreconcilable ultras
    I think under those circumstances you would find that all 'the party' would be left with is a skeleton whilst most of its members, activists and supporters went elsewhere. Together with the majority of its MPs. I make no comment on the rights or wrongs of the ERG and think they have been very stupid in how they have handled the whole Brexit situation but right now they certainly appear to have more support at the grassroots than May does.
    I think that's correct. If May were to concede both CU and a second referendum, she would be left with a minority of the Conservative Party. It's not just the ERG who would baulk at that.

    We’ll probably just piss around for another 6 months.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,039

    Off-topic: (and without wanting to annoy Sandy):

    In ~20 minutes, an Israeli company will be attempting to land the first private-financed lander on the Moon. You can watch at:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMdUcchBYRA

    In addition, there might be the second Falcon Heavy launch later tonight.

    Space is cool.

    Bunch of numpties. Lock them up .
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,383
    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    Drutt said:

    eek said:

    Robert Peston might have got something right although I suspect it's be accident

    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1116398686219776006

    Labour can't campaign for revoke as it will annoy Northern Leave MPs. It can't campaign for the a Deal as that wil annoy the South. A peoples' vote offers them a safe and easy way to campaign in the EU elections without hurting anyone.

    Now where are the odds for Labour to win most votes and seats..

    What side would Labour campaign for in such a PV? 'Their' deal, or Remain?
    Read the article as it states Corbyn would remain neutral and allow MPs to campaign for whatever side they prefer.

    After all this is only there for 2 reasons. It means that labour can campaign in the EU elections without making a commitment and after any referendum can look at any result and say not our fault...
    The voters fault then?
    I didn't think the EU would give extra time for us to faff around, but it turned out that they would.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406
    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    Drutt said:

    eek said:

    Robert Peston might have got something right although I suspect it's be accident

    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1116398686219776006

    Labour can't campaign for revoke as it will annoy Northern Leave MPs. It can't campaign for the a Deal as that wil annoy the South. A peoples' vote offers them a safe and easy way to campaign in the EU elections without hurting anyone.

    Now where are the odds for Labour to win most votes and seats..

    What side would Labour campaign for in such a PV? 'Their' deal, or Remain?
    Read the article as it states Corbyn would remain neutral and allow MPs to campaign for whatever side they prefer.

    After all this is only there for 2 reasons. It means that labour can campaign in the EU elections without making a commitment and after any referendum can look at any result and say not our fault...
    The voters fault then?
    I didn't think the EU would give extra time for us to faff around, but it turned out that they would.
    Remember no one wants the blame for where we eventually end up..
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Any hint of a YouGov out soon, for the full boom crossover effect.
  • ralphmalphralphmalph Posts: 2,201
    edited April 2019
    If there was a PV on Mays deal v remain, who would campaign for Mays deal? It would be May and hubby with a couple of activists to cover the whole country.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,006

    ydoethur said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    ydoethur said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    ydoethur said:

    Danny565 said:

    "No Deal" officially dead, don't leave tributes:

    https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1116399291235479552

    Operation Brock has officially been badgered into submission.
    Your puns sett a high standard.
    Have I earned my stripes?
    Best to call a holt to this.
    Can I have an otter try?
    All these PBers beavering away to come up with puns.
    Is there somewhere one can lodge a complaint?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    If there was a PV on Mays deal v remain, who would campaign for Mays deal? It would be May and hubby with a couple of activists to cover the whole country.

    Hence why it would fail. Beyond May and Rory Stewart very few others have backed it positively, rather than reluctantly. Although at his current rate of change Daniel Kawczynski probably would.
  • DruttDrutt Posts: 1,124
    eek said:

    Drutt said:

    eek said:

    Robert Peston might have got something right although I suspect it's be accident

    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1116398686219776006

    Labour can't campaign for revoke as it will annoy Northern Leave MPs. It can't campaign for the a Deal as that wil annoy the South. A peoples' vote offers them a safe and easy way to campaign in the EU elections without hurting anyone.

    Now where are the odds for Labour to win most votes and seats..

    What side would Labour campaign for in such a PV? 'Their' deal, or Remain?
    Read the article as it states Corbyn would remain neutral and allow MPs to campaign for whatever side they prefer.

    After all this is only there for 2 reasons. It means that labour can campaign in the EU elections without making a commitment and after any referendum can look at any result and say not our fault...
    I was...reading it but...when reading...Peston I read it in his...voice and so...it does take me a while.
  • Off-topic: (and without wanting to annoy Sandy):

    In ~20 minutes, an Israeli company will be attempting to land the first private-financed lander on the Moon. You can watch at:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMdUcchBYRA

    In addition, there might be the second Falcon Heavy launch later tonight.

    Space is cool.

    Space really is cool. I'll forgo Brexit if we can really ramp up the Euro Space Agency and spunk our 350 grand for the NHS a week into some rockets and stuff.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,720
    Sky have found a loony aristocratic supporter of Julian Assange.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406

    If there was a PV on Mays deal v remain, who would campaign for Mays deal? It would be May and hubby with a couple of activists to cover the whole country.

    And anyone who wishes the UK will ever leave the EU - as if May's deal lost no one would talk about leaving the EU again. We would be like the German's in Faulty Towers..
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,133
    Drutt said:

    ydoethur said:

    Drutt said:

    ydoethur said:

    Well I suppose anyone confronted by a knife-wielding thug tonight can draw comfort from the fact that Assange has been nailed.

    Well, we no longer have to waste police time pursuing a fugitive who is clearly either deranged or so dishonest that he is more or less divorced from reality anyway.

    To be blunt, his best course of action is probably to claim insanity, in which case it's unlikely he would be extradited even to Sweden.
    The stakeout op cost £4M in its first year. That's the cost of 40 FTE Met coppers plus all the support they need.
    Incidentally, that figure is interesting because we were told a couple of years back in Labour's fully costed manifesto that the cost of 10,000 extra police officers was £300 million (well, Diane Abbott said 'thousand' but she meant million).

    But if the cost of 40 full time officers is £4 million, that means the cost of ten thousand extra officers would have been somewhat closer to £1 billion.

    Not that I'm doubting your figures...in fact they sound about right to me...

    Just saying...
    The Met has a budget of c£3BN and has 30k warranted officers, i.e. it takes £100kpa to 'run' a policeman.
    And how much does it cost to train one?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,133
    edited April 2019
    Labour's shadow home secretary Diane Abbott said Assange was being pursued for "whistle-blowing into illegal wars, mass murder, murder of civilians and corruption on a grand scale" that put him "in the cross-hairs of the US administration".

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-47891737

    Labour on the side of Russian lackies again I see. Even the Guardian thing he is a wrong'un these days.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,039
    viewcode said:
    Get in. I can resuscitate my 'Ska and the rude boys' gag about the list of candidates.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,856

    Sky have found a loony aristocratic supporter of Julian Assange.

    Michael Shrimpton?
  • DruttDrutt Posts: 1,124

    Drutt said:

    ydoethur said:

    Drutt said:

    ydoethur said:

    Well I suppose anyone confronted by a knife-wielding thug tonight can draw comfort from the fact that Assange has been nailed.

    Well, we no longer have to waste police time pursuing a fugitive who is clearly either deranged or so dishonest that he is more or less divorced from reality anyway.

    To be blunt, his best course of action is probably to claim insanity, in which case it's unlikely he would be extradited even to Sweden.
    The stakeout op cost £4M in its first year. That's the cost of 40 FTE Met coppers plus all the support they need.
    Incidentally, that figure is interesting because we were told a couple of years back in Labour's fully costed manifesto that the cost of 10,000 extra police officers was £300 million (well, Diane Abbott said 'thousand' but she meant million).

    But if the cost of 40 full time officers is £4 million, that means the cost of ten thousand extra officers would have been somewhat closer to £1 billion.

    Not that I'm doubting your figures...in fact they sound about right to me...

    Just saying...
    The Met has a budget of c£3BN and has 30k warranted officers, i.e. it takes £100kpa to 'run' a policeman.
    And how much does it cost to train one?
    No idea. £cost of running Hendon for a year / number of officers passing out of Hendon every year, though i don't know either number.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,856
    Looking forward to seeing the polling for the Tories now we have the 6 month extension. Straw that broke the camel's back?

    Could this be interpreted as another fail for poor old Macron? Everything he does seems to go wrong.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,720

    Sky have found a loony aristocratic supporter of Julian Assange.

    Michael Shrimpton?
    Lady Tracy Worcester. Apparently he's a hero who can do no wrong, the accusations against him are made up and he's 100% accurate in everything he says.
  • MyBurningEarsMyBurningEars Posts: 3,651
    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    I think May has come to realise that the ERG and DUP will never support any deal and she has been forced to allow reality to intrude. It's clear she is no longer willing to see a no deal departure and she is serious about wanting a cross party agreement, which she knows will split the Tories. She must know that a customs union and a second referendum would have to form part of such an agreement and maybe it is no longer inconceivable that she will accept that. She can never be the hero of the Brexiteers so she just might decide to become the hero of the remainers instead.
    She has my backing for that process which may end up with a referendum and UK remaining

    If the ERG want to vote against their government in a vonc the whip would go and the party would be purged of the irreconcilable ultras
    I think under those circumstances you would find that all 'the party' would be left with is a skeleton whilst most of its members, activists and supporters went elsewhere. Together with the majority of its MPs. I make no comment on the rights or wrongs of the ERG and think they have been very stupid in how they have handled the whole Brexit situation but right now they certainly appear to have more support at the grassroots than May does.
    I think that's correct. If May were to concede both CU and a second referendum, she would be left with a minority of the Conservative Party. It's not just the ERG who would baulk at that.
    TM said today she would have amendable indicative votes that could accommodate a referendum.

    For a referendum to happen it's amendment would have to win a majority and as Hyfud says the numbers have not been there but there is some indication the momentum is with this outcome. If the HOC mandated it this way then TM would not be directly responsible, the will of the House probably aided by Bercow would be the enablers
    That doesn't contradict my post.

    Conservative MP's, members, and voters aren't just going to shrug and say that's okay.
    Theramsey MayDonald?

    A strangely divisive aspiration for someone so previously committed to kicking the fudge-can.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,619
    Alistair said:

    Any hint of a YouGov out soon, for the full boom crossover effect.

    Adding the last four polls to the EMA (i.e. ComRes, BMG, Hanbury and Survation) gives Con 34.5%, Lab 34.8%. Crossover!

    Seats:
    Con 282
    Lab 280
    LD/Chuk 26
    UKIP/Brexit 0
    Green 1
    PC 3
    SNP 40
    NI 18

    Tories 44 short of an overall majority and just 2 seats ahead of Labour.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,714

    Labour's shadow home secretary Diane Abbott said Assange was being pursued for "whistle-blowing into illegal wars, mass murder, murder of civilians and corruption on a grand scale" that put him "in the cross-hairs of the US administration".

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-47891737

    Labour on the side of Russian lackies again I see. Even the Guardian thing he is a wrong'un these days.

    The Guardian are sh*ts for the way they *accidentally* leaked the master password of the unredacted wikileak cables. Their excuse of sheer incompetence does not wash.

    A member of my extended family (and I don't mean that in Charles' sense) was mentioned in the cables.

    I'll never forgive the Guardian for that. They'are absolute shits.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,131

    viewcode said:
    Get in. I can resuscitate my 'Ska and the rude boys' gag about the list of candidates.
    I can't get over how much she looks like Deadpool's girlfriend

    https://movies.mxdwn.com/news/morena-baccarin-is-the-leading-lady-in-deadpool/
  • MyBurningEarsMyBurningEars Posts: 3,651
    eek said:

    If there was a PV on Mays deal v remain, who would campaign for Mays deal? It would be May and hubby with a couple of activists to cover the whole country.

    And anyone who wishes the UK will ever leave the EU - as if May's deal lost no one would talk about leaving the EU again. We would be like the German's in Faulty Towers..
    The more vociferous Brexiteers I talk to about it just speak of defacing the ballot paper, or organising a boycott. Daft time to be a purist given how tight the margin was at the last vote. Especially when Remain's best chance of winning is differential turn-out with greater motivation among those who strongly want to stay in the EU versus those who have mixed feelings about leaving on the terms available.

    Plenty of evidence that boycotts don't work (think there have been more recent and more damning papers than that too) but try telling that to those who will only accept Leave if it's on their own exact terms...
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,133

    Labour's shadow home secretary Diane Abbott said Assange was being pursued for "whistle-blowing into illegal wars, mass murder, murder of civilians and corruption on a grand scale" that put him "in the cross-hairs of the US administration".

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-47891737

    Labour on the side of Russian lackies again I see. Even the Guardian thing he is a wrong'un these days.

    The Guardian are sh*ts for the way they *accidentally* leaked the master password of the unredacted wikileak cables. Their excuse of sheer incompetence does not wash.

    A member of my extended family (and I don't mean that in Charles' sense) was mentioned in the cables.

    I'll never forgive the Guardian for that. They'are absolute shits.
    Their former man Glenn Greenwald is also certainly an interesting individual.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,714

    Off-topic: (and without wanting to annoy Sandy):

    In ~20 minutes, an Israeli company will be attempting to land the first private-financed lander on the Moon. You can watch at:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMdUcchBYRA

    In addition, there might be the second Falcon Heavy launch later tonight.

    Space is cool.

    Bunch of numpties. Lock them up .
    Why? It is part of man's natural progress to explore and understand our surroundings.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,884
    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:
    Get in. I can resuscitate my 'Ska and the rude boys' gag about the list of candidates.
    I can't get over how much she looks like Deadpool's girlfriend

    https://movies.mxdwn.com/news/morena-baccarin-is-the-leading-lady-in-deadpool/
    She looked OK in "Firefly" and "Serenity".
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,491
    edited April 2019

    Labour's shadow home secretary Diane Abbott said Assange was being pursued for "whistle-blowing into illegal wars, mass murder, murder of civilians and corruption on a grand scale" that put him "in the cross-hairs of the US administration".

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-47891737

    Labour on the side of Russian lackies again I see. Even the Guardian thing he is a wrong'un these days.

    I appreciate that Youtube is no more a 'real world' environment than PB, but people may want a quick look at the responses there to the arrest story to realise that elsewhere, alternative views certainly proliferate, Guardian or no Guardian.

    If I were a member of the American Government I'd be delighted at this news. I'm just puzzled why a member of the UK public should be. Assange, whatever his personal defects, was instrumental in exposing wrongdoing that otherwise would have remained a secret.

    The only thing I am pleased about is the merciful lifting of the burden on the public purse of surveiling him. Perhaps the police can now try and focus on stopping Londoners stabbing each other.

  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    Britain Elects


    @britainelects
    6h6 hours ago
    More
    English & Welsh Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 41% (-1)
    CON: 37% (-8)
    LDEM: 10% (+2)
    UKIP: 7% (+5)
    GRN: 2% (-)
    CHUK: 1% (+1)

    via @Survation, 03 - 06 Apr
    Chgs. w/ GE2017.
This discussion has been closed.