Brtiain wants to be inspired. I'm convinced the economy would be energised with No deal.
Can you describe how you think No Deal would energise the economy?
we could reduce our corporation tax rates to the lowest in Europe to make us attractive to foreign investment and subsidise our manufacturing industry to compete with Germany for starters
So tax down, subsidies up. At a time when the debt is large. I can't help thinking that this is not a good plan,
Brtiain wants to be inspired. I'm convinced the economy would be energised with No deal.
Can you describe how you think No Deal would energise the economy?
we could reduce our corporation tax rates to the lowest in Europe to make us attractive to foreign investment and subsidise our manufacturing industry to compete with Germany for starters
Subsidising manufacturing?
You sir are a socialist and Margaret Thatcher would kick your arse for such economic heresy.
in a no deal brexit we would need to go to war economically with Europe, that's not socialism , its survival
This is such idiocy. The UK would not win a trade war with the EU, and you are ignoring the immediate negative shock from disruption of existing supply chains.
Letwin amendment passes Newsnight saying could be huge.
The Commons will vote on Brexit first preferences on Wednesday then on Monday if no majority preferential voting to find a winner, then next Wednesday Letwin will introduce a Bill to force the Government to implement the Commons vote
Does each option get to spend the weekend in boot camp at the judges house?
Brtiain wants to be inspired. I'm convinced the economy would be energised with No deal.
Can you describe how you think No Deal would energise the economy?
we could reduce our corporation tax rates to the lowest in Europe to make us attractive to foreign investment and subsidise our manufacturing industry to compete with Germany for starters
So tax down, subsidies up. At a time when the debt is large. I can't help thinking that this is not a good plan,
Ah, the Venezuela plan! What could possibly go wrong?
I am lost. What is the main motion? Could this fall, in which case all the amendments are gone?
Sure! They voted for an amendment to the government motion. Doesn't mean they will vote for the amended government motion...
Yes. I think the figures will be much the same, though.
People who voted for Letwin and not Beckett presumably say that they want constructive alternatives to May's deal, but are not focused on stopping Brexit, even hard Brexit.
My MP (Mann) seems to have voted against Letwin but abstained on Beckett. What's he saying there ?
That its easier to vote against 'one of them' rather than 'one of us' ?
The only leader that can replace May from this cabinet is one that chooses Clean Brexit over long delay. She’s there so long as she does that bidding.
That’s where the power and control lies. In the executive. When a putsch comes to shove that’s where the cabinet, government and party is. That’s where both the people and parliament voted. That’s where the law that needs to be overturned is. The only way to stop Clean Brexit is pass the WA.
Regarding your repeated use of "clean Brexit" I must refer you to this incisive political analysis from that fine 2004 tract "Mean Girls"
BRUSSELS (Reuters) - The European Union’s budget chief Guenther Oettinger said on Friday Britain would lose its rebate even in the “pleasant but improbable” event of it staying in the bloc.
Taxes are going to have to rise to pay the extra EU membership fees - may as well let Jezza raise em.
There really is no point in this government - let it fall.
Will there be extra membership fees? I thought Mrs May's super-duper negotiating skills had ensured we'd be paying the full whack for the next two years, even if we were out of the EU, anyway.
When we revoke - we lose all rebates. Thanks Remainers...
No we don't.
They just expire next year instead. And I'm sure they're going to be very keen to keep them on going after this farce in the next round of budgetary negotiations.
Letwin amendment passes Newsnight saying could be huge.
The Commons will vote on Brexit first preferences on Wednesday then on Monday if no majority preferential voting to find a winner, then next Wednesday Letwin will introduce a Bill to force the Government to implement the Commons vote
The problem, as I see it, is that the preferred outcome still falls well short of 326 votes, and promptly gets voted down, when the substantive motion is put.
There is no bill that can force the government to implement the commons indicative vote. The governing party can point to three far stronger and legitimate mandates, from voters in 2016 and 18, and from parliament itself making leaving EU UK law by massive majority and just drop the indicative vote in the bin.
The only leader that can replace May from this cabinet is one that chooses Clean Brexit over long delay. She’s there so long as she does that bidding.
That’s where the power and control lies. In the executive. When a putsch comes to shove that’s where the cabinet, government and party is. That’s where both the people and parliament voted. That’s where the law that needs to be overturned is. The only way to stop Clean Brexit is pass the WA.
Regarding your repeated use of "clean Brexit" I must refer you to this incisive political analysis from that fine 2004 tract "Mean Girls"
“Hello.. is that the company that makes WTFometers? It’s the UK Parliament here. We’ve had one for the last 40 years - just in time for Sunny Jim wheeling dying MPs through the lobby. We had to get it recalibarated during the Maastricht Unpleasantness in the 90s, of course. But, well, the thing is, we have a government now which has seen the central plank of its policy die on its arse, twice, by three-figure majorities, then loses three ministers in a double-figure defeat over holding a Bring Your Policies To Work day - and still it’s in office. To cut a long story short, our WTFometer is now a pile of twisted metal and burning plastic, and we were wondering how much it would cost to upgrade?”
I am lost. What is the main motion? Could this fall, in which case all the amendments are gone?
Sure! They voted for an amendment to the government motion. Doesn't mean they will vote for the amended government motion...
Yes. I think the figures will be much the same, though.
People who voted for Letwin and not Beckett presumably say that they want constructive alternatives to May's deal, but are not focused on stopping Brexit, even hard Brexit.
All it would take is a meaningful, credible move from the government to Labour’s position and leaving on 22nd May would be all but guaranteed. The PM can still deliver Brexit, but she will not countenance compromise because it will destroy her party. She is thwarting the will of the people.
What the hell is this fetishisation of the DUP? Either the ERG climb down or they don't. What the drum bashes have to say is incidental. Do they take the DUP whip, or what?
It's totally counterproductive for them. The DUP have totally different priorities. Norway+ is a much better option than the deal for them.
What the hell is this fetishisation of the DUP? Either the ERG climb down or they don't. What the drum bashes have to say is incidental. Do they take the DUP whip, or what?
In effect, yes. And boy howdy do the DUP love it. Too much, since there probably won't be a Tory government for much longer for them to lord it over, but they just cannot seem to help themselves stringing them along, no doubt demanding huge amounts behind the scenes, and generally acting like they don't care what happens because their seats are almost all safe.
Some ERG people want to climb down but are too embarrassed to do so without DUP cover. The DUP probably don't want want to be seen as the reason others climbed down, so want others to do it first.
It's totally counterproductive for the ERG. The DUP are on record as saying that UK-wide soft brexit is better than the deal.
I am lost. What is the main motion? Could this fall, in which case all the amendments are gone?
Sure! They voted for an amendment to the government motion. Doesn't mean they will vote for the amended government motion...
Yes. I think the figures will be much the same, though.
People who voted for Letwin and not Beckett presumably say that they want constructive alternatives to May's deal, but are not focused on stopping Brexit, even hard Brexit.
My MP (Mann) seems to have voted against Letwin but abstained on Beckett. What's he saying there ?
I cannot think of another PM who has been so destroyed as May has and remained in office. She has now lost everything. It is 21st century Shakespeare - hubris and high haughtiness leading to humiliation and emasculation.
I have a massive stockpile of bog roll, what am I going to do with it now that I won't need it?
Give it to me. We have Conservatives recommending deficit spending, the ERG delivering no-Brexit because they genuinely prefer bitching to action, SeanT called Remainers patronising, and Oliver Fucking Letwin just launched a coup and won. Constipation will not be one of my problems.
Letwin amendment passes Newsnight saying could be huge.
The Commons will vote on Brexit first preferences on Wednesday then on Monday if no majority preferential voting to find a winner, then next Wednesday Letwin will introduce a Bill to force the Government to implement the Commons vote
The problem, as I see it, is that the preferred outcome still falls well short of 326 votes, and promptly gets voted down, when the substantive motion is put.
There is no bill that can force the government to implement the commons indicative vote. The governing party can point to three far stronger and legitimate mandates, from voters in 2016 and 18, and from parliament itself making leaving EU UK law by massive majority and just drop the indicative vote in the bin.
You don't understand our constitution. We are led by bills not "mandates". If a bill is passed it is the law.
Does proroguing Parliament require a vote of the Commons? I'm in the mood that I'd love to see May resign and prorogue Parliament 15 April and say "fine we're exiting no deal now you lot sort it out I'm off".
I am lost. What is the main motion? Could this fall, in which case all the amendments are gone?
Sure! They voted for an amendment to the government motion. Doesn't mean they will vote for the amended government motion...
Yes. I think the figures will be much the same, though.
People who voted for Letwin and not Beckett presumably say that they want constructive alternatives to May's deal, but are not focused on stopping Brexit, even hard Brexit.
All it would take is a meaningful, credible move from the government to Labour’s position and leaving on 22nd May would be all but guaranteed. The PM can still deliver Brexit, but she will not countenance compromise because it will destroy her party. She is thwarting the will of the people.
Letwin amendment passes Newsnight saying could be huge.
The Commons will vote on Brexit first preferences on Wednesday then on Monday if no majority preferential voting to find a winner, then next Wednesday Letwin will introduce a Bill to force the Government to implement the Commons vote
The problem, as I see it, is that the preferred outcome still falls well short of 326 votes, and promptly gets voted down, when the substantive motion is put.
There is no bill that can force the government to implement the commons indicative vote. The governing party can point to three far stronger and legitimate mandates, from voters in 2016 and 18, and from parliament itself making leaving EU UK law by massive majority and just drop the indicative vote in the bin.
If the Commons indicative vote is Revoke, or Seond Referendum, I hope the government would resign at that point, and invite its opponents to form an alternative government.
If it's any form of (deliverable) Brexit, they should accept it.
I am lost. What is the main motion? Could this fall, in which case all the amendments are gone?
Sure! They voted for an amendment to the government motion. Doesn't mean they will vote for the amended government motion...
Yes. I think the figures will be much the same, though.
People who voted for Letwin and not Beckett presumably say that they want constructive alternatives to May's deal, but are not focused on stopping Brexit, even hard Brexit.
All it would take is a meaningful, credible move from the government to Labour’s position and leaving on 22nd May would be all but guaranteed. The PM can still deliver Brexit, but she will not countenance compromise because it will destroy her party. She is thwarting the will of the people.
What is the point of the Conservative party if it is this wet, useless and poorly governed ?
Letwin amendment passes Newsnight saying could be huge.
The Commons will vote on Brexit first preferences on Wednesday then on Monday if no majority preferential voting to find a winner, then next Wednesday Letwin will introduce a Bill to force the Government to implement the Commons vote
The problem, as I see it, is that the preferred outcome still falls well short of 326 votes, and promptly gets voted down, when the substantive motion is put.
No, as after preferences it will be over 326 votes.
The MV may never be put forward again, so it is now either BINO which the Commons likely votes for or as May made clear today we contest the EU Parliament elections and indefinite extension
BRUSSELS (Reuters) - The European Union’s budget chief Guenther Oettinger said on Friday Britain would lose its rebate even in the “pleasant but improbable” event of it staying in the bloc.
Read the actual article, don't stop at the summary. It says *Oettinger wants* to phase out the rebate.
He wanted to phase out the rebate already. The reason there's still a rebate is because is isn't up to him.
Letwin amendment passes Newsnight saying could be huge.
The Commons will vote on Brexit first preferences on Wednesday then on Monday if no majority preferential voting to find a winner, then next Wednesday Letwin will introduce a Bill to force the Government to implement the Commons vote
The problem, as I see it, is that the preferred outcome still falls well short of 326 votes, and promptly gets voted down, when the substantive motion is put.
There is no bill that can force the government to implement the commons indicative vote. The governing party can point to three far stronger and legitimate mandates, from voters in 2016 and 18, and from parliament itself making leaving EU UK law by massive majority and just drop the indicative vote in the bin.
You don't understand our constitution. We are led by bills not "mandates". If a bill is passed it is the law.
Does proroguing Parliament require a vote of the Commons? I'm in the mood that I'd love to see May resign and prorogue Parliament 15 April and say "fine we're exiting no deal now you lot sort it out I'm off".
I seem to recall that proroguing is a prerogative act of the Crown
Taxes are going to have to rise to pay the extra EU membership fees - may as well let Jezza raise em.
There really is no point in this government - let it fall.
Will there be extra membership fees? I thought Mrs May's super-duper negotiating skills had ensured we'd be paying the full whack for the next two years, even if we were out of the EU, anyway.
When we revoke - we lose all rebates. Thanks Remainers...
No we don't.
They just expire next year instead. And I'm sure they're going to be very keen to keep them on going after this farce in the next round of budgetary negotiations.
"As the rebate is included in the EU's regulation that determines Member states' contributions, it is essentially permanent: the regulation can only be changed if all Member States, including the UK, agree."
I wonder if we could see No Deal supporters decide they prefer Remain to Mrs May's Deal.
I would counter-intuitively be quite upset by that. The main issue is not whether we Remain or Leave, but whether we can govern ourselves in a rational manner: set a goal, do a plan, execute the steps, complete task. Millions of people do this in their everyday lives every day. What makes MPs think they are exempt from this?
OK MPs this is your moment. You think you can control Brexit better than the government fine. Lets see what you've got.
They hadn't better have done all this just to finish up not being able to agree anything on Wednesday...
Letwin will do it by preferences next Monday if no majority on Wednesday Newsnight said, maybe AV, STV? If so BINO likely winner
May needs to be on her way to the palace by Monday.
A General Election is the only way out now . It has to be odds on
Dropping. Now 1.83.
Just put another £5 on myself.
By what mechanism do you see a general election being called?
Theresa May calling one when the Commons votes for the "Common Market".
Keep going. Do you see her trying to get two thirds of the Commons to vote for it? Because if Parliament is that out of her control why would it comply?
I am lost. What is the main motion? Could this fall, in which case all the amendments are gone?
Sure! They voted for an amendment to the government motion. Doesn't mean they will vote for the amended government motion...
Yes. I think the figures will be much the same, though.
People who voted for Letwin and not Beckett presumably say that they want constructive alternatives to May's deal, but are not focused on stopping Brexit, even hard Brexit.
All it would take is a meaningful, credible move from the government to Labour’s position and leaving on 22nd May would be all but guaranteed. The PM can still deliver Brexit, but she will not countenance compromise because it will destroy her party. She is thwarting the will of the people.
Do you truly believe that Corbyn wants to strike a deal with the government over Brexit?
I cannot think of another PM who has been so destroyed as May has and remained in office. She has now lost everything. It is 21st century Shakespeare - hubris and high haughtiness leading to humiliation and emasculation.
Letwin amendment passes Newsnight saying could be huge.
The Commons will vote on Brexit first preferences on Wednesday then on Monday if no majority preferential voting to find a winner, then next Wednesday Letwin will introduce a Bill to force the Government to implement the Commons vote
The problem, as I see it, is that the preferred outcome still falls well short of 326 votes, and promptly gets voted down, when the substantive motion is put.
No, as after preferences it will be over 326 votes.
The MV may never be put forward again, so it is now either BINO which the Commons likely votes for or as May made clear today we contest the EU Parliament elections and indefinite extension
If MP's abstain, rather than switching their votes, the winning option can fall well short of 326.
I said this in an earlier thread but how is this a dangerous precedent? A minority government can always be threatened with the threat of a VONC. How is this any different? If there was a functioning coalition or majority government, none of this would be a problem.
Because the executive sets the policy under the threat of being sacked
Under this “innovation” it’ll be government by committee
The only leader that can replace May from this cabinet is one that chooses Clean Brexit over long delay. She’s there so long as she does that bidding.
That’s where the power and control lies. In the executive. When a putsch comes to shove that’s where the cabinet, government and party is. That’s where both the people and parliament voted. That’s where the law that needs to be overturned is. The only way to stop Clean Brexit is pass the WA.
Regarding your repeated use of "clean Brexit" I must refer you to this incisive political analysis from that fine 2004 tract "Mean Girls"
I said this in an earlier thread but how is this a dangerous precedent? A minority government can always be threatened with the threat of a VONC. How is this any different? If there was a functioning coalition or majority government, none of this would be a problem.
Because the executive sets the policy under the threat of being sacked
Under this “innovation” it’ll be government by committee
The only leader that can replace May from this cabinet is one that chooses Clean Brexit over long delay. She’s there so long as she does that bidding.
That’s where the power and control lies. In the executive. When a putsch comes to shove that’s where the cabinet, government and party is. That’s where both the people and parliament voted. That’s where the law that needs to be overturned is. The only way to stop Clean Brexit is pass the WA.
Regarding your repeated use of "clean Brexit" I must refer you to this incisive political analysis from that fine 2004 tract "Mean Girls"
Letwin amendment passes Newsnight saying could be huge.
The Commons will vote on Brexit first preferences on Wednesday then on Monday if no majority preferential voting to find a winner, then next Wednesday Letwin will introduce a Bill to force the Government to implement the Commons vote
The problem, as I see it, is that the preferred outcome still falls well short of 326 votes, and promptly gets voted down, when the substantive motion is put.
There is no bill that can force the government to implement the commons indicative vote. The governing party can point to three far stronger and legitimate mandates, from voters in 2016 and 18, and from parliament itself making leaving EU UK law by massive majority and just drop the indicative vote in the bin.
You don't understand our constitution. We are led by bills not "mandates". If a bill is passed it is the law.
Does proroguing Parliament require a vote of the Commons? I'm in the mood that I'd love to see May resign and prorogue Parliament 15 April and say "fine we're exiting no deal now you lot sort it out I'm off".
It’s not as simple as that Thomo. I know how it works very well 😁
The only leader that can replace May from this cabinet is one that chooses Clean Brexit over long delay. She’s there so long as she does that bidding.
That’s where the power and control lies. In the executive. When a putsch comes to shove that’s where the cabinet, government and party is. That’s where both the people and parliament voted. That’s where the law that needs to be overturned is. The only way to stop Clean Brexit is pass the WA.
Regarding your repeated use of "clean Brexit" I must refer you to this incisive political analysis from that fine 2004 tract "Mean Girls"
Taxes are going to have to rise to pay the extra EU membership fees - may as well let Jezza raise em.
There really is no point in this government - let it fall.
Will there be extra membership fees? I thought Mrs May's super-duper negotiating skills had ensured we'd be paying the full whack for the next two years, even if we were out of the EU, anyway.
When we revoke - we lose all rebates. Thanks Remainers...
Shami Chakrabarti insisted a second referendum had 'never been our preference'.
I remember when Shami Chakrabarti was widely respected. It seems like a long time ago.
Only by people who didn’t know what she was really like. She had trashed what was left of her reputation long before joining Labour. Remember the LSE and Ghadaffi or her failure to stand up for Wilders when he was unlawfully kept out of the country. She had about as much understanding of human rights as my cat.
And for a while David Davis was best buds with her....hmmm...
Still the sexyist in the House of Lords though, with her bedroom eyes and soft come hither voice.
Comments
Where would we be without Matt?
Just put another £5 on myself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pubd-spHN-0
BRUSSELS (Reuters) - The European Union’s budget chief Guenther Oettinger said on Friday Britain would lose its rebate even in the “pleasant but improbable” event of it staying in the bloc.
OK just put up, 327-300,maj 27
Gosh...
Does proroguing Parliament require a vote of the Commons? I'm in the mood that I'd love to see May resign and prorogue Parliament 15 April and say "fine we're exiting no deal now you lot sort it out I'm off".
If it's any form of (deliverable) Brexit, they should accept it.
Let it die.
The MV may never be put forward again, so it is now either BINO which the Commons likely votes for or as May made clear today we contest the EU Parliament elections and indefinite extension
But she may feel also there is nothing remotely left to lose.
Pretty sure May would GE rather than PV.
He wanted to phase out the rebate already. The reason there's still a rebate is because is isn't up to him.
http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-7886/CBP-7886.pdf
"As the rebate is included in the EU's regulation that determines Member states' contributions, it is essentially permanent: the regulation can only be changed if all Member States, including the UK, agree."
Page 11
resigned from office
Under this “innovation” it’ll be government by committee
Bercow did not demur.
Bear in mind that 2004 bananas have aged better than 2004 Lohan.