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  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,741

    Today it was confirmed I don't have stomach cancer and yet the events in Westminster make me really sad.

    Well done Theresa and Parliament.

    It's an amazing feeling, isn't it? I had all the symptoms , had the two week urgent referral, had a cameras inserted both ends (not the same camera!) and then found out I had a moderately serious hiatus hernia and probable irritable bowel syndrome. Doctor told me to cut out my 3 main food groups-Alcohol, caffeine and chocolate. The wagon often hits a bumpy patch...
    Endoscopy is an interesting experience! I too have been on the wrong end...
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,387

    Floater said:
    Andrea Leadsom is poison. Sadly she has children.
    I’m no fan of Leadsom but here is the quote

    It’s absolutely vital that children do grow up understanding the society they live in and they grow up tolerant, seeking equality and respecting differences… I think it is the case that you have to allow parents to choose to withdraw their children up to a certain age, but at the same time in order to have an equal society there comes a point where children do need to understand the social norms around them

    As a parent I cannot fault that approach. This is yet more partisan point scoring when there are better things to be doing.
    Why should people criticise her for saying what Birmingham's politicians think?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,888

    Oliver said:
    The last leader who actively promoted hostility to parliament was probably Charles I. It did not end well for him.
    Yet his son was put back on the throne 11 years later...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    edited March 2019
    As angry as I am at May for being such a poor leader (even recognising the difficulty of corralling the idiotic factions of her party), I would be just asfurious at anyone who would back her deal but they are either embarrassed to change direction because of their own past comments, or refuse to do so in a huff because of her statements and tone deafness. Those are stupid reasons to refuse to back the deal, if otherwise they are among those who do fear no deal (rather than the bulk who just pretend they fear it) enough that, forced choice, they would back the deal.

    Anger at options being closed down unreasonably is all very well and good, but if they really have been closed down you have to make a choice from the remaining options, not just moan that you wish the other options were still on the table.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    RoyalBlue said:

    Can May prorogue Parliament on Monday to delay the vote to Thursday/Friday?

    Doesn't the Queen have to prorogue rather than May?

    Can't see HMQ wanting to get involved... Although that's probably what is needed to bang heads together.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Foxy said:

    Today it was confirmed I don't have stomach cancer and yet the events in Westminster make me really sad.

    Well done Theresa and Parliament.

    It's an amazing feeling, isn't it? I had all the symptoms , had the two week urgent referral, had a cameras inserted both ends (not the same camera!) and then found out I had a moderately serious hiatus hernia and probable irritable bowel syndrome. Doctor told me to cut out my 3 main food groups-Alcohol, caffeine and chocolate. The wagon often hits a bumpy patch...
    Endoscopy is an interesting experience! I too have been on the wrong end...
    I was asked if I wanted to watch on screen - I politely declined.....
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,186
    edited March 2019
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Does anyone actually think May will bring her proposal for a vote on Monday? If it is a do or die situation those who have held their bladders until now won't wet themselves Sunday night and suddenly decide they need to back the deal. She'll pull it, which will only embolden the no dealer holdouts further - she'll be losing their votes as they see the chances of stopping Brexit receding, without gaining any further votes.

    As much as I'd wish for this to be over with end of next week, I see Parliament finally having had enough of May.

    Monday Letwin and Cooper will try and force through another amendment along with Boles, it is possible the Commons could an end the political declaration to aim for a Single Market and Customs Union BINO end point and then vote through the Withdrawal Agreement on that basis
    What would Letwin/Cooper be an amendment to? I severely doubt May will bring forward her deal, so I'm unclear procedurally what their proposal would be attached to, of if it can standalone.
    If and when May brings her Deal through it would amend the political declaration to Single Market and Customs Union BINO then if that passes the Commons could vote through the Withdrawal Agreement even with the ERG, the DUP and some diehard Remainers still opposed. May will bring her Deal forward to the vote next week, the question is just when
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    Oliver said:
    The last leader who actively promoted hostility to parliament was probably Charles I. It did not end well for him.
    Yet his son was put back on the throne 11 years later...
    Showing your republican tendencies there - he succeeded to the throne immediately, it just took 11 years before the traitors were dealt with :)
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,815

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    Foxy said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    eek said:

    IanB2 said:



    .

    .
    .
    I’m not exasperated I just think it’s irrelevant.

    I certainly will challenge the numbers on the March if I think they’re called out incorrectly, which they almost certainly will be.

    Remember: it was 270k marchers last time, not 700k.
    Taking the bait eh. Only you thought it was 270K.
    Yeah, @Casino_Royale wasn't there to count.



    Your naivety is almost touching.

    Your confirmation bias far less so.
    CS when you get into one of these discussions you remind me of Plato. You are filtering out all the evidence and picking what suits you no matter how self deluding it looks, but believe others are doing the same and you are not. And you don't need to cos you have solid arguments, but getting into an argument over the numbers in a crowd is pointless and just leads others to bait you. All that matters was it was enormous. Whether that matters or not is debatable, but trying to argue with people it was smaller than it looks, makes you look silly. Does Trump and his crowd estimates come to mind at all?
    Trump inflated his crowd estimates.

    Just like People’s Vote March organisers.
    You missed the whole point of that post didn't you?
    No.
    Er you did. And that is the point. If you had understood it you wouldn't have given that reply. The fact that one example is the inverse of the other is not relevant to the point being made.

    Ask yourself the question why others on here bait you sometimes and under what circumstances, but don't bait others with similar views. It is not the views they are baiting you about. They respect you for those. They will argue with you about them and it may get heated, but they for instance won't call you a troll for expressing your opinions. Why do you think you were called a troll?

    I have agreed with you and disagreed with you on topics, but every so often like the crowd numbers you lose it and become completely irrational on something that really doesn't matter.
  • kle4 said:

    As angry as I am at May for being such a poor leader (even recognising the difficulty of corralling the idiotic factions of her party), I would be just asfurious at anyone who would back her deal but they are either embarrassed to change direction because of their own past comments, or refuse to do so in a huff because of her statements and tone deafness. Those are stupid reasons to refuse to back the deal, if otherwise they are among those who do fear no deal (rather than the bulk who just pretend they fear it) enough that, forced choice, they would back the deal.

    Anger at options being closed down unreasonably is all very well and good, but if they really have been closed down you have to make a choice from the remaining options, not just moan that you wish the other options were still on the table.

    Very wise comment
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Foxy said:

    Endoscopy is an interesting experience! I too have been on the wrong end...

    I think it is the single most unpleasant experience of my life so far.
  • DruttDrutt Posts: 1,124
    "The money was just resting in my account"
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    kle4 said:

    Oliver said:
    The last leader who actively promoted hostility to parliament was probably Charles I. It did not end well for him.
    Yet his son was put back on the throne 11 years later...
    Showing your republican tendencies there - he succeeded to the throne immediately, it just took 11 years before the traitors were dealt with :)
    No, unless you acceptt the divine right. Britain disposed of its monarchy, he didn't succeed until invited
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,167
    edited March 2019
    Scott_P said:
    This fits with what I mentioned earlier ; these speeches are just about reassuring both her core vote and herself, and also using the two as a Trumpian front against the legislature. It's not likely to work for her.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871
    RoyalBlue said:

    Can May prorogue Parliament on Monday to delay the vote to Thursday/Friday?

    She can (and will) just delay the vote anyway.
  • NemtynakhtNemtynakht Posts: 2,329

    Some rather nasty and unpleasant comments on here tonight.

    FWIW my decidedly apolitical wife has just, in amongst feeding the baby, watched her statement on the nine o’clock news.

    She expressed her anger at the faffing of the MPs, her admiration of Theresa May's tenacity and poured scorn on those who constantly criticise her who couldn’t begin to do her job, or even a small part of it.

    Make of that what you will.

    Well my wife - who has always worked in public or third sector- was railing against Tusk. She couldn’t believe what he had said, and she has before expressed sympathy for May. Whilst I think May has had the wrong approach, I am not sure that given the circumstances - the various options and factions that support them and normal party politics carrying on as would be expected - that there is a feasible way through it. I’ve seen a lot of tweets from her political opponents tonight and reading them I am thinking is there anything she could have done high would have met their approval
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,815
    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    Foxy said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    eek said:

    IanB2 said:



    .

    .
    .
    I’m not exasperated I just think it’s irrelevant.

    I certainly will challenge the numbers on the March if I think they’re called out incorrectly, which they almost certainly will be.

    Remember: it was 270k marchers last time, not 700k.
    Taking the bait eh. Only you thought it was 270K.
    Yeah, @Casino_Royale wasn't there to count.




    CS when you get into one of these discussions you remind me of Plato. You are filtering out all the evidence and picking what suits you no matter how self deluding it looks, but believe others are doing the same and you are not. And you don't need to cos you have solid arguments, but getting into an argument over the numbers in a crowd is pointless and just leads others to bait you. All that matters was it was enormous. Whether that matters or not is debatable, but trying to argue with people it was smaller than it looks, makes you look silly. Does Trump and his crowd estimates come to mind at all?
    Trump inflated his crowd estimates.

    Just like People’s Vote March organisers.
    You missed the whole point of that post didn't you?
    No.
    Er you did. And that is the point. If you had understood it you wouldn't have given that reply. The fact that one example is the inverse of the other is not relevant to the point being made.

    Ask yourself the question why others on here bait you sometimes and under what circumstances, but don't bait others with similar views. It is not the views they are baiting you about. They respect you for those. They will argue with you about them and it may get heated, but they for instance won't call you a troll for expressing your opinions. Why do you think you were called a troll?

    I have agreed with you and disagreed with you on topics, but every so often like the crowd numbers you lose it and become completely irrational on something that really doesn't matter.
    Bugger I have done it again. Sorry CS they were my comments not yours. I always mess up on blockquotes.
  • SeanTSeanT Posts: 549

    Today it was confirmed I don't have stomach cancer and yet the events in Westminster make me really sad.

    Well done Theresa and Parliament.

    Glad to hear it mate.

    Enjoy life. Ignore politics,
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    And that's a tory mp speaking.........
  • Scott_P said:

    Foxy said:

    Endoscopy is an interesting experience! I too have been on the wrong end...

    I think it is the single most unpleasant experience of my life so far.
    Testify.

    I'd sooner eat a pizza with pineapple than have another endoscopy.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    @TheScreamingEagles - Very pleased to hear your good news.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Does anyone actually think May will bring her proposal for a vote on Monday? If it is a do or die situation those who have held their bladders until now won't wet themselves Sunday night and suddenly decide they need to back the deal. She'll pull it, which will only embolden the no dealer holdouts further - she'll be losing their votes as they see the chances of stopping Brexit receding, without gaining any further votes.

    As much as I'd wish for this to be over with end of next week, I see Parliament finally having had enough of May.

    Monday Letwin and Cooper will try and force through another amendment along with Boles, it is possible the Commons could an end the political declaration to aim for a Single Market and Customs Union BINO end point and then vote through the Withdrawal Agreement on that basis
    What would Letwin/Cooper be an amendment to? I severely doubt May will bring forward her deal, so I'm unclear procedurally what their proposal would be attached to, of if it can standalone.
    It would have to be an amendment to MV3. But it needs Parliamentary time afterwards for MPs to do their stuff. Available time is fast running out.
  • DadgeDadge Posts: 2,052
    She seemed to be entirely pinning her hopes on voters shaming their MPs into supporting her. It might have some effect.

    But any rational observer can see that the WA won't get past parliament. It looks now like her govt will collapse - this was always likely in the end, since many ministers are so adamantly against No Deal. So my money now is there being a general election before we Brexit. (May can only avoid this, I think, by either bribing Labour somehow or agreeing to a 2nd referendum, but she's adamantly against one.)
  • I want to use a word to describe Theresa May that is highly abusive to both her and a whole load of other people. So I won't. I do however hope that MPs who she has chosen to abuse today at the same time as demanding those same MPsPs vote for her shitey deal tell her to go fuck herself
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    She's aligning herself with the 40% who support her deal, but not the 60% who would rather remain.
    In FPTP that’s a winning strategy...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    kle4 said:

    Oliver said:
    The last leader who actively promoted hostility to parliament was probably Charles I. It did not end well for him.
    Yet his son was put back on the throne 11 years later...
    Showing your republican tendencies there - he succeeded to the throne immediately, it just took 11 years before the traitors were dealt with :)
    No, unless you accept the divine right. Britain disposed of its monarchy, he didn't succeed until invited
    It was a joke. But of course serious to them in the day, and one could easily make a legal case about the legitimacy of any ordinances passed by a parliament forcibly culled by the military, and its successors! (again, I'm only joking)
  • kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Does anyone actually think May will bring her proposal for a vote on Monday? If it is a do or die situation those who have held their bladders until now won't wet themselves Sunday night and suddenly decide they need to back the deal. She'll pull it, which will only embolden the no dealer holdouts further - she'll be losing their votes as they see the chances of stopping Brexit receding, without gaining any further votes.

    As much as I'd wish for this to be over with end of next week, I see Parliament finally having had enough of May.

    Monday Letwin and Cooper will try and force through another amendment along with Boles, it is possible the Commons could an end the political declaration to aim for a Single Market and Customs Union BINO end point and then vote through the Withdrawal Agreement on that basis
    What would Letwin/Cooper be an amendment to? I severely doubt May will bring forward her deal, so I'm unclear procedurally what their proposal would be attached to, of if it can standalone.
    How can you vote through an agreement if you change it and the other side refuses to accept it? Cat bell mice.
  • DadgeDadge Posts: 2,052

    Today it was confirmed I don't have stomach cancer and yet the events in Westminster make me really sad.

    Well done Theresa and Parliament.

    Excellent news!
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,725
    Those Labour votes are looking elusive.

    https://twitter.com/lisanandy/status/1108483900970594304
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772

    Scott_P said:

    Foxy said:

    Endoscopy is an interesting experience! I too have been on the wrong end...

    I think it is the single most unpleasant experience of my life so far.
    Testify.

    I'd sooner eat a pizza with pineapple than have another endoscopy.
    I had one many years ago, but was allowed general aesthetic. Slept through the whole thing.

    Doubt they are allowed to do that these days.
  • Ave_itAve_it Posts: 2,411
    Hello TSE

    Glad that you are OK! :lol:
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871
    edited March 2019
    kjohnw said:

    TudorRose said:

    Foxy said:

    If May loses MV3 surely she *has* to go at that point, regardless of whether it's no deal or a long extension.

    VONC her tommorow while she is in Brussels.
    VONC = No deal Brexit, I reckon.
    This is going down to the wire . If she delays the vote until next Thursday if it falls we no deal brexit on Friday. That should concentrate minds . TSE good to hear your okay , it’s scary when you get symptoms like that and such a relief when it’s not the big C. BTW what chance now do you reckon for a no deal brexit ?
    BFE no 'no deal' on the 29th now out to 1.26
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992

    I want to use a word to describe Theresa May that is highly abusive to both her and a whole load of other people. So I won't. I do however hope that MPs who she has chosen to abuse today at the same time as demanding those same MPsPs vote for her shitey deal tell her to go fuck herself

    What on earth does free from food mean although congrats on the award.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    Floater said:

    And that's a tory mp speaking.........
    I think we can assume the Tory party has split, it's just a matter of who calls their lawyer first.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,710

    Scott_P said:

    Foxy said:

    Endoscopy is an interesting experience! I too have been on the wrong end...

    I think it is the single most unpleasant experience of my life so far.
    Testify.

    I'd sooner eat a pizza with pineapple than have another endoscopy.
    I had one many years ago, but was allowed general aesthetic. Slept through the whole thing.

    Doubt they are allowed to do that these days.
    General aesthetic for pizza with pineapple seems severe :-D
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,741
    Scott_P said:

    Foxy said:

    Endoscopy is an interesting experience! I too have been on the wrong end...

    I think it is the single most unpleasant experience of my life so far.
    I thought it OK, but I do have a pretty blase attitude to biological stuff. It was quite interesting to see on screen bits that I could never see directly.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,186

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Does anyone actually think May will bring her proposal for a vote on Monday? If it is a do or die situation those who have held their bladders until now won't wet themselves Sunday night and suddenly decide they need to back the deal. She'll pull it, which will only embolden the no dealer holdouts further - she'll be losing their votes as they see the chances of stopping Brexit receding, without gaining any further votes.

    As much as I'd wish for this to be over with end of next week, I see Parliament finally having had enough of May.

    Monday Letwin and Cooper will try and force through another amendment along with Boles, it is possible the Commons could an end the political declaration to aim for a Single Market and Customs Union BINO end point and then vote through the Withdrawal Agreement on that basis
    What would Letwin/Cooper be an amendment to? I severely doubt May will bring forward her deal, so I'm unclear procedurally what their proposal would be attached to, of if it can standalone.
    How can you vote through an agreement if you change it and the other side refuses to accept it? Cat bell mice.
    It would not change the text of the Agreement at all, just the political declaration of the future relationship, on that basis I think the Agreement would pass
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,366
    Mr Royale,

    "She expressed her anger at the faffing of the MPs, her admiration of Theresa May's tenacity and poured scorn on those who constantly criticise her who couldn’t begin to do her job, or even a small part of it."

    My wife said something similar before Mrs May's speech and she's a LD and Remain voter. I thought at first, it was a fellow-woman thing, but I've heard it from a few men around here too.

    Even so, my wife would probably vote Remain again in a second referendum even while expressing disquiet at the fact we were having a second referendum Although she'd never vote Tory, she does have some respect for Mrs May. It's odd, but common.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,888

    Today it was confirmed I don't have stomach cancer

    That is wonderful news, TSE!
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871
    edited March 2019

    Scott_P said:

    Foxy said:

    Endoscopy is an interesting experience! I too have been on the wrong end...

    I think it is the single most unpleasant experience of my life so far.
    Testify.

    I'd sooner eat a pizza with pineapple than have another endoscopy.
    I had one many years ago, but was allowed general aesthetic. Slept through the whole thing.

    Doubt they are allowed to do that these days.
    You get the choice of sedation or not. Sedation means you have to hang around for hours afterwards in recovery. I have had two and didn't bother either time (they told me about two thirds of people don't have it); it is distinctly unpleasant but doesn't last very long. Snipping for the biopsies isn't nice.
  • Dadge said:

    She seemed to be entirely pinning her hopes on voters shaming their MPs into supporting her. It might have some effect.

    But any rational observer can see that the WA won't get past parliament. It looks now like her govt will collapse - this was always likely in the end, since many ministers are so adamantly against No Deal. So my money now is there being a general election before we Brexit. (May can only avoid this, I think, by either bribing Labour somehow or agreeing to a 2nd referendum, but she's adamantly against one.)
    We leave next friday without a deal. How is that going to change
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    Those Labour votes are looking elusive.

    https://twitter.com/lisanandy/status/1108483900970594304

    Certainly not one preparing to switch sides. I really don't think more than a handful were ever serious about doing so, they just need to make the right noises to avoid unnecessarily upsetting the larger leave votes in the constituencies.

    How can parliament not vote to try to seize control of the process now? Labour votes like Nandy's are essential for the deal and clearly she is not on board, so why has parliament even allowed this to continue? Very peculiar - I really did not get why the government won the votes last week.
  • SeanTSeanT Posts: 549
    Is he really a bad guy? Given the development of Islam since the Bosnian war, I wonder if the Serbs were right, albeit brutal. They knew the enemy.
  • Scott_P said:

    Foxy said:

    Endoscopy is an interesting experience! I too have been on the wrong end...

    I think it is the single most unpleasant experience of my life so far.
    Testify.

    I'd sooner eat a pizza with pineapple than have another endoscopy.
    I had one many years ago, but was allowed general aesthetic. Slept through the whole thing.

    Doubt they are allowed to do that these days.
    Sedative for me.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    edited March 2019
    SeanT said:

    Is he really a bad guy? Given the development of Islam since the Bosnian war, I wonder if the Serbs were right, albeit brutal. They knew the enemy.
    Not a post which will age well. It's not easy to convict somebody of such crimes, I really don't think it's in any way fair to suggest 'oh was it really that bad being so brutal because of things that have happened since then?'
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,149
    edited March 2019

    I want to use a word to describe Theresa May that is highly abusive to both her and a whole load of other people. So I won't. I do however hope that MPs who she has chosen to abuse today at the same time as demanding those same MPsPs vote for her shitey deal tell her to go fuck herself

    Shooting yourself in the foot comes to mind. We need a deal to stop no deal next friday

    To be fair I am pleased you were prudent in your vocabulary apart from your penultimate word
  • TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,683

    Scott_P said:

    Foxy said:

    Endoscopy is an interesting experience! I too have been on the wrong end...

    I think it is the single most unpleasant experience of my life so far.
    Testify.

    I'd sooner eat a pizza with pineapple than have another endoscopy.
    I had one many years ago, but was allowed general aesthetic. Slept through the whole thing.

    Doubt they are allowed to do that these days.
    I had one last year and was given the choice but told I wouldn't be allowed to drive home afterwards, so that made the decision for me. I was too busy being 'ill' to watch the video!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,263

    Today it was confirmed I don't have stomach cancer and yet the events in Westminster make me really sad.

    Well done Theresa and Parliament.

    Jesus, I had no idea you were facing that.

    That's terrific news and far more important than this stuff.

    Log off and enjoy yourself.
    It was a scary 9 days or so.

    I vomited last week, and there was a hint of blood, coupled with a bit of unexplained weight loss and my father insisted I had to get checked out.
    Glad to hear it’s not serious.

    Btw, if you ever use ibuprofen, stop. It’s the worst for stomach bleeds.

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,741
    SeanT said:

    Is he really a bad guy? Given the development of Islam since the Bosnian war, I wonder if the Serbs were right, albeit brutal. They knew the enemy.
    Wot, like in Christchurch?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    https://twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/1108485516058681344

    This is spiralling even more out of control than before.

    God alone knows what the WhatsApp groups are like tonight.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,136
    I'm looking at the comments tonight: apparently May has given a speech and MPs are upset. Did she tell them that they were rubbish and that they should be ashamed of themselves? If so they need to hear it. They were given a great responsibility and did not discharge it very well
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,501

    Today it was confirmed I don't have stomach cancer and yet the events in Westminster make me really sad.

    Well done Theresa and Parliament.

    Jesus, I had no idea you were facing that.

    That's terrific news and far more important than this stuff.

    Log off and enjoy yourself.
    It was a scary 9 days or so.

    I vomited last week, and there was a hint of blood, coupled with a bit of unexplained weight loss and my father insisted I had to get checked out.
    That sounds horrible mate.

    Take it easy. All this Brexit stuff will pass. Your health is much more important.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,167
    edited March 2019
    Yes. It was heavy with Trumpian elements.
  • steve_garnersteve_garner Posts: 1,019
    Some rather ungentlemanly and unparliamentary language on here tonight. It's a good thing Mrs Garner is not present. It's rather dispiriting to hear MP's indicating that they'll vote on their hurt feelings about the PM's blunt words rather than on the issues.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,501
    Dadge said:

    She seemed to be entirely pinning her hopes on voters shaming their MPs into supporting her. It might have some effect.

    But any rational observer can see that the WA won't get past parliament. It looks now like her govt will collapse - this was always likely in the end, since many ministers are so adamantly against No Deal. So my money now is there being a general election before we Brexit. (May can only avoid this, I think, by either bribing Labour somehow or agreeing to a 2nd referendum, but she's adamantly against one.)
    MPs egos are generally too big for shame to work.
  • Ave_itAve_it Posts: 2,411
    Good to see LAB LIB and SNP playing small party politics as usual rather than working for the good of the country!
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,888
    edited March 2019
    MPs want to avoid a No-deal Brexit by not voting for the deal?

    Seriously?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    viewcode said:

    I'm looking at the comments tonight: apparently May has given a speech and MPs are upset. Did she tell them that they were rubbish and that they should be ashamed of themselves? If so they need to hear it. They were given a great responsibility and did not discharge it very well

    The point is they've heard that from her before, and however true it is, and I too think they should be even as she should be, it doesn't help her get any votes for her proposals, and doesn't help the Commons resolve anything.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,501

    Some rather nasty and unpleasant comments on here tonight.

    FWIW my decidedly apolitical wife has just, in amongst feeding the baby, watched her statement on the nine o’clock news.

    She expressed her anger at the faffing of the MPs, her admiration of Theresa May's tenacity and poured scorn on those who constantly criticise her who couldn’t begin to do her job, or even a small part of it.

    Make of that what you will.

    Well my wife - who has always worked in public or third sector- was railing against Tusk. She couldn’t believe what he had said, and she has before expressed sympathy for May. Whilst I think May has had the wrong approach, I am not sure that given the circumstances - the various options and factions that support them and normal party politics carrying on as would be expected - that there is a feasible way through it. I’ve seen a lot of tweets from her political opponents tonight and reading them I am thinking is there anything she could have done high would have met their approval
    Unfortunately they are not the selectorate here.
  • I'm expecting cabinet resignations.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,387
    SeanT said:

    Is he really a bad guy? Given the development of Islam since the Bosnian war, I wonder if the Serbs were right, albeit brutal. They knew the enemy.
    Yes he is. The Bosnian Muslims were not extremists.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    Some rather ungentlemanly and unparliamentary language on here tonight. It's a good thing Mrs Garner is not present. It's rather dispiriting to hear MP's indicating that they'll vote on their hurt feelings about the PM's blunt words rather than on the issues.

    Well quite. Anyone who suggests that is either a fool, or they are using it as an excuse for what they would do anyway.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,628

    Today it was confirmed I don't have stomach cancer and yet the events in Westminster make me really sad.

    Well done Theresa and Parliament.

    I'm sure we'll all raise a glass to your good news :smile:

    Take care and don't overdo things.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,676
    edited March 2019

    I want to use a word to describe Theresa May that is highly abusive to both her and a whole load of other people. So I won't. I do however hope that MPs who she has chosen to abuse today at the same time as demanding those same MPsPs vote for her shitey deal tell her to go fuck herself

    Shooting yourself in the foot comes to mind. We need a deal to stop no deal next friday

    To be fair I am pleased you were prudent in your vocabulary apart from your penultimate word
    May sinks to new lows and you’re still backing her?
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293

    Those Labour votes are looking elusive.

    https://twitter.com/lisanandy/status/1108483900970594304

    I don't think May cares about any of this anymore...
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871
    dr_spyn said:
    Note MV3 is already "Tuesday or Wednesday". But also the potential lifeline of a longer extension - if MPs get the chance to vote on this offer it will clearly trump no deal.

  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,366
    I've only just listened to the speech - the one that many MPs seem to think is so terrible.

    What planet do they live on? Don't they listen to what ordinary people are saying. I may be in a Northern echo chamber but there's real hate here for MPs. The expenses scandal was nothing compared to this.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    I'm expecting cabinet resignations.

    They should get a bloody move on
  • SeanTSeanT Posts: 549
    kle4 said:

    SeanT said:

    Is he really a bad guy? Given the development of Islam since the Bosnian war, I wonder if the Serbs were right, albeit brutal. They knew the enemy.
    Not a post which will age well.
    The Serbs were genocidal bastards, including this mofo, but maybe they felt the same in return: that they were facing cultural if not actual genocide.

    In which context, their actions seem rather different.

    That said, on examination Karadzic is clearly at the gangstery, murderous end of the ethnocentric spectrum, so fair play. Deserves a life sentence.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radovan_Karadžić
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    Can't parliament figure out a way to shortcut things to tomorrow and Friday? I'm busy all day Monday and would like to be able to follow along as they continue to act like idiots.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,619
    SeanT said:

    Is he really a bad guy? Given the development of Islam since the Bosnian war, I wonder if the Serbs were right, albeit brutal. They knew the enemy.
    He's a really bad guy. One of my close friends was a key figure in dealing with him. You don't want to hear the stories. You won't sleep.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,186
    The Agreement is the only Deal on the table, by refusing to vote for it Streeting and Nandy will be directly responsible for every one of their constituents jobs lost as a result of a No Deal Brexit
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    SeanT said:

    Is he really a bad guy? Given the development of Islam since the Bosnian war, I wonder if the Serbs were right, albeit brutal. They knew the enemy.
    Bloody hell Sean

    I'm no fan of the Islamists but that is really too much.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,710
    So where is the PB Crisis Index (PBCX) sitting at this evening then?
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    edited March 2019
    kle4 said:

    Oliver said:
    If parliament does not remove her then they do not agree she is being hostile toward them.
    MPs opposed to Theresa May have failed in their constitutional duty to remove her and install a PM they can support (hint: not Jeremy Corbyn either). They've not had the willingness to do the dirty work, hence voting for insipid amendments supposedly ruling out no deal, but not for anything that would actually ensure that no deal doesn't happen.

    Yes, Theresa May is awful, but she's only still PM because MPs have allowed her to be PM. That reflects poorly on them.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,628
    viewcode said:

    I'm looking at the comments tonight: apparently May has given a speech and MPs are upset. Did she tell them that they were rubbish and that they should be ashamed of themselves? If so they need to hear it. They were given a great responsibility and did not discharge it very well

    +1
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Judging by the reaction of MPs tonight it seems that Toby Young did get a job as a government adviser after all.
  • TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,683

    I'm expecting cabinet resignations.

    The ministers who resign will give us a good indication of which way May is leaning. If it's Rudd/Gauke then a 'no deal' Brexit is favourite; if it's Leadsom/Mordaunt then revoke might be on the cards.
  • kjohnwkjohnw Posts: 1,456
    Jonathan said:

    I want to use a word to describe Theresa May that is highly abusive to both her and a whole load of other people. So I won't. I do however hope that MPs who she has chosen to abuse today at the same time as demanding those same MPsPs vote for her shitey deal tell her to go fuck herself

    Shooting yourself in the foot comes to mind. We need a deal to stop no deal next friday

    To be fair I am pleased you were prudent in your vocabulary apart from your penultimate word
    May sinks to new lows and you’re still backing he?
    I think she is coming out fighting and the public will respect her for that . Everyone I speak to is sick of parliament trying to block brexit . She is pitching herself on the side of the people , parliament is on the side if the EU now trying to scupper brexit, she will carry out the instruction of the referendum deal or no deal . In the country she will find sympathy , who cares if it upsets the mps
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871
    CD13 said:

    I've only just listened to the speech - the one that many MPs seem to think is so terrible.

    What planet do they live on? Don't they listen to what ordinary people are saying. I may be in a Northern echo chamber but there's real hate here for MPs. The expenses scandal was nothing compared to this.

    I agree - but May is significantly responsible, yet she thinks she can rise above it all and dump on the others.
  • tottenhamWCtottenhamWC Posts: 352
    CD13 said:

    I've only just listened to the speech - the one that many MPs seem to think is so terrible.

    What planet do they live on? Don't they listen to what ordinary people are saying. I may be in a Northern echo chamber but there's real hate here for MPs. The expenses scandal was nothing compared to this.

    I'm not an MP (and have generally been a supporter of her). And I think it was terrible
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    I'm expecting cabinet resignations.

    I've seen worms with stronger backbones than the cabinet
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    Scott_P said:
    That sort of comment really surprises me, because I feel like it has been broadly accepted wisdom for the better part of a year, or at least a very high possibility, that she would have been gone from Brexit day onwards in any case. Things have proceeded in an even more chaotic and terrible fashion since then, and May done an even worse job than could have been predicted (and parliament just as obstructive and unhelpful in clarifying what they will do rather than what they will not), but it seems to me to be strange to act like May going very soon would be some shocking end to her premiership.
  • Scott_P said:

    Foxy said:

    Endoscopy is an interesting experience! I too have been on the wrong end...

    I think it is the single most unpleasant experience of my life so far.
    Testify.

    I'd sooner eat a pizza with pineapple than have another endoscopy.
    I had both ends done in one afternoon, without sedative. My youngest lad has just had the same very recently. He was worried about it, but I convinced him it was something to get done asap, and better to just get it out of the way so we can find out what is wrong and then we can deal with it. He's had the all clear, but that has lead to frustrations, as the Docs can't find anything wrong with him to pin his symptoms on so they've gone with IBS for him as well.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    Tom Bradby ITV News.

    Hero! Best newscaster without a doubt .
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,366
    Mr Eagles,

    In more important matters, I'm very pleased to hear your good news. This calls for pineapple on your pizza tonight.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,136
    edited March 2019
    kjohnw said:

    This is going down to the wire . If she delays the vote until next Thursday if it falls we no deal brexit on Friday. That should concentrate minds . TSE good to hear your okay , it’s scary when you get symptoms like that and such a relief when it’s not the big C. BTW what chance now do you reckon for a no deal brexit ?

    The European Parliament have to ratify the deal. Their last meeting day before the 29th is the 28th. The longer you delay the greater an accidental no-deal Brexit on the 29th.

    [edit: less patronising]
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    SeanT said:

    Is he really a bad guy? Given the development of Islam since the Bosnian war, I wonder if the Serbs were right, albeit brutal. They knew the enemy.
    Jeez. What? This was ethic cleansing. The Bosnian Muslims had been living there since 15th century.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,951
    edited March 2019

    CD13 said:

    I've only just listened to the speech - the one that many MPs seem to think is so terrible.

    What planet do they live on? Don't they listen to what ordinary people are saying. I may be in a Northern echo chamber but there's real hate here for MPs. The expenses scandal was nothing compared to this.

    I'm not an MP (and have generally been a supporter of her). And I think it was terrible
    The EU have already told her to sod off, she's still going on about 30th of June as if she's still in control, when she's been told to be out by May 23rd.

    She seems to have completely lost control of the situation - if not actually her grip on reality at this point - and her utter inflexibility risks seeing us crash out to no deal.

    She is driving us off the cliff edge...
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,683

    I
    SeanT said:

    Is he really a bad guy? Given the development of Islam since the Bosnian war, I wonder if the Serbs were right, albeit brutal. They knew the enemy.
    I doubt the threat of Radical Islam even crossed his imagination during his quest for genocide.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,136

    viewcode said:

    I'm looking at the comments tonight: apparently May has given a speech and MPs are upset. Did she tell them that they were rubbish and that they should be ashamed of themselves? If so they need to hear it. They were given a great responsibility and did not discharge it very well

    +1
    Thank you.
This discussion has been closed.