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  • TrèsDifficileTrèsDifficile Posts: 1,729

    Interesting that James Goddard, the one who hassled and chased Soubry to Parliament, has been charged with racially aggravated harassment.

    How does that work?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47622282

    Because it wasn't just Anna Soubry he's been accused of harassing and abusing.

    IIRC there was also a black gentleman who he kept on abusing and calling 'Lammy.'
    That is pretty low. They should lock him up.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Scott_P said:
    I thought "the last days of Rome" was supposed to be the point of us approaching Brexit.

    I'll get my coat.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,725
    Sean_F said:
    Hannan is so egregiously wrong about history so often that it’s the only thing you can say to him.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708

    Remember that old Yes Minister sketch about how we joined the EU so we could screw it up from the inside, having failed to wreck it from the outside? Well, it looks like we've finally figured out how to do it properly:

    https://twitter.com/BBCkatyaadler/status/1107967895697571841

    Surely, an extension will come with a requirement we hold the elections?
    Not if it's a short extension, presumably. The EU lawyers do seem to think there's a genuine difficulty here. The real problem could be if we agree a short extension and then we want to extend it again. So I think it might go back to what Theresa May said last week: a short extension if parliament signs off the deal, else a longer extension and the UK participating in the EU elections. Expect big fireworks if it's the latter.
    If the government promises to hold EU elections, will parliament need to pass something for them to keep their promise?
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092

    Shocking numbers here.

    YouTube and Facebook have defended themselves against accusations that they failed to act quickly enough in the wake of the Christchurch terror attack, arguing that their moderation is as good as possible given the number of videos uploaded.

    Facebook said on Tuesday that the original stream of the attack was viewed live fewer than 200 times and non-live by 4,000 people before it was removed from the site.

    Copies of it spread rapidly and by Saturday evening the company had removed 1.5m uploads. By Tuesday morning more than 800 distinct edits of the footage had been posted to the site.

    YouTube said it had tried to keep on top of the unprecedented number of videos uploaded, eventually going so far as to eject human reviewers from the loop in order to let automated systems take down more videos instantly.

    A spokesman told the Guardian: “The volume of related videos uploaded to YouTube in the 24 hours after the attack was unprecedented both in scale and speed – at times as fast as a new upload every second.

    “In response we took a number of steps, including automatically rejecting any footage of the violence, temporarily suspending the ability to sort or filter searches by upload date, and making sure searches on this event pulled up results from authoritative news sources.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/mar/19/facebook-and-youtube-defend-response-to-christchurch-videos?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    "As good as possible"? It's their decision to just publish and promote whatever anyone gives them without any human oversight. Saying that it's not "possible" to do any better isn't a defense, it's pointing out a fundamental flaw in their own product.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Scott_P said:
    Does this mean we shall be able to bet on whether the Euro-elections will be held?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,008
    edited March 2019
    Sean_F said:
    'I have a degree in history' still sounds a bit wanky, but reasonable enough; 'I managed a Double First in Modern History from Oxford' is pure wank bragging though, and possibly over gilded wank bragging at that.
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092
    edited March 2019

    viewcode said:

    "A "double first" at Oxford usually informally refers to first-class honours in both components of an undergraduate degree, i.e. Moderations/Prelims and the Final Honour School, or in both the bachelor's and master's components of an integrated master's degree."
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_undergraduate_degree_classification

    Google is your friend.
    So he got a first in the first bit of his undergraduate degree and a first in the second bit of his undergraduate degree. So he got a first overall. But for some godforsaken reason Oxford calls this a "Double First". Ok, good to know.

    Incidentally, what's an "integrated batchelors and masters" degree? Is it just a four-year Batchelor's. Masters degrees aren't divided into 1/2.1/2.2/3etc, they're divided into "Distinction/Pass/Fail" or similar.
    (Heard this secondhand, so sorry if it's BS, but...)

    Is that the thing where Oxford will sell you a Masters for an extra £50 when you complete your degree... but apparently no-one goes for it unless they want to hawk themselves abroad because everyone* in the UK knows about it and it's not seen as a classy look.

    (*Spoiler alert: I didn't)
    No, it's an MSci (not sure what the equivalent name is for non-MSc masters). Offered by many universities, not just Oxford.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,167
    edited March 2019
    Scott_P said:
    All things is going to be ringing alarm bells like crazy for the EU. Avoiding no-deal crashout is a priority, but there are also other voices very worried about granting an extension without a crystal-clear wish list.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,042
    So May needs to resign in the next week and let someone else Revoke. Simples.
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    Hannan has never done anything meaningful outside politics. Such people have far too much influence in government.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772

    Scott_P said:
    All things is going to be ringing alarm bells like crazy for the EU. Avoiding no-deal crashout is a priority, but there are also other voices very worried about granting an extension without a crystal-clear wish list.
    It is going to take amazing diplomacy to get all 27 to agree to a delay of any form. Not sure we are hearing too much about that side of things.

    Assumptions as usual from UK.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,387

    Scott_P said:
    All things is going to be ringing alarm bells like crazy for the EU. Avoiding no-deal crashout is a priority, but there are also other voices very worried about granting an extension without a crystal-clear wish list.
    It is going to take amazing diplomacy to get all 27 to agree to a delay of any form. Not sure we are hearing too much about that side of things.

    Assumptions as usual from UK.
    If I were an EU head of government, I'd say I'd grant a short extension simply to ratify the WA.
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704

    Scott_P said:
    All things is going to be ringing alarm bells like crazy for the EU. Avoiding no-deal crashout is a priority, but there are also other voices very worried about granting an extension without a crystal-clear wish list.
    I wouldn't say 'Yes, have whatever you want until you sort it out' if I were one of the 27.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,042
    HYUFD said:
    Crossover! It's all trending one way now...
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,725

    So May needs to resign in the next week and let someone else Revoke. Simples.
    She'll just blame Tim Barrow for it.
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,878

    Anyhoo I hear Paul Nuttal has a quadruple first from Oxford.

    Well he went to Edge Hill University, they probably hand out quadruple firsts there if you can manage to get through the re-enrolment forms at the start of every year....apparently he had some insightful views during his undergraduate studies....
    Edge Hill did not become a University in its own right until 2009. Prior to then, it awarded Degrees from the University of Lancaster. My wife went there, and has (in her eyes) the more prestigious award from Lancaster.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413
    Despite all the Brexit bollocks the economy moves on with jobs and wages both moving in the right direction

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47622415
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821

    Remember that old Yes Minister sketch about how we joined the EU so we could screw it up from the inside, having failed to wreck it from the outside? Well, it looks like we've finally figured out how to do it properly:

    https://twitter.com/BBCkatyaadler/status/1107967895697571841

    Surely, an extension will come with a requirement we hold the elections?
    Not if it's a short extension, presumably. The EU lawyers do seem to think there's a genuine difficulty here. The real problem could be if we agree a short extension and then we want to extend it again. So I think it might go back to what Theresa May said last week: a short extension if parliament signs off the deal, else a longer extension and the UK participating in the EU elections. Expect big fireworks if it's the latter.
    If the government promises to hold EU elections, will parliament need to pass something for them to keep their promise?
    Good question. Dunno.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Sean_F said:
    You can be highly educated and shockingly negligent to the point of recklessness about the facts. Daniel Hannan regularly falls into that category.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,187

    HYUFD said:
    Crossover! It's all trending one way now...
    Tories would likely still have more seats than Labour on those numbers though
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    edited March 2019
    HYUFD said:
    I wonder if it is possible to work out who might be leaking from cabinet...
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    Despite all the Brexit bollocks the economy moves on with jobs and wages both moving in the right direction

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47622415

    I’m just out of a conference where one of the sobering statistics given was that 17 million employees have less than £100 savings.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,136

    viewcode said:

    "A "double first" at Oxford usually informally refers to first-class honours in both components of an undergraduate degree, i.e. Moderations/Prelims and the Final Honour School, or in both the bachelor's and master's components of an integrated master's degree."
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_undergraduate_degree_classification

    Google is your friend.
    So he got a first in the first bit of his undergraduate degree and a first in the second bit of his undergraduate degree. So he got a first overall. But for some godforsaken reason Oxford calls this a "Double First". Ok, good to know.

    Incidentally, what's an "integrated batchelors and masters" degree? Is it just a four-year Batchelor's. Masters degrees aren't divided into 1/2.1/2.2/3etc, they're divided into "Distinction/Pass/Fail" or similar.
    (Heard this secondhand, so sorry if it's BS, but...)

    Is that the thing where Oxford will sell you a Masters for an extra £50 when you complete your degree... but apparently no-one goes for it unless they want to hawk themselves abroad because everyone* in the UK knows about it and it's not seen as a classy look.

    (*Spoiler alert: I didn't)
    I don't know. The anecdote I believe comes from an episode of Yes Minister. But it is possible to get a Master's degree from Oxford in the conventional manner, after one year's study comprising a compulsory nine-month taught course and an optional three-months thesis. If you pass the nine-month element then drop out or fail the thesis you get a Diploma. If you pass the nine-month element and the thesis you get the Master's degree.

  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,387

    Sean_F said:
    You can be highly educated and shockingly negligent to the point of recklessness about the facts. Daniel Hannan regularly falls into that category.
    I wouldn't disagree.

    What puzzles me is this. It's not at all easy to get a good degree from Oxbridge or a Russell Group University. You have to be bright. But, quite frequently, people who have obtained such degrees act incompetently in later life.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414
    nico67 said:

    I wish Tory MPs would stop peddling their manifesto. It didn’t get a majority , if people wanted their version of Brexit they would have voted for it.

    Indeed. If their manifesto were so sacred, where are the waves of grammar schools and a vote on fox hunting?
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413

    Despite all the Brexit bollocks the economy moves on with jobs and wages both moving in the right direction

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47622415

    I’m just out of a conference where one of the sobering statistics given was that 17 million employees have less than £100 savings.
    The UK is debt fuelled. people dont save
  • kingbongokingbongo Posts: 393

    viewcode said:

    "A "double first" at Oxford usually informally refers to first-class honours in both components of an undergraduate degree, i.e. Moderations/Prelims and the Final Honour School, or in both the bachelor's and master's components of an integrated master's degree."
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_undergraduate_degree_classification

    Google is your friend.
    So he got a first in the first bit of his undergraduate degree and a first in the second bit of his undergraduate degree. So he got a first overall. But for some godforsaken reason Oxford calls this a "Double First". Ok, good to know.

    Incidentally, what's an "integrated batchelors and masters" degree? Is it just a four-year Batchelor's. Masters degrees aren't divided into 1/2.1/2.2/3etc, they're divided into "Distinction/Pass/Fail" or similar.
    (Heard this secondhand, so sorry if it's BS, but...)

    Is that the thing where Oxford will sell you a Masters for an extra £50 when you complete your degree... but apparently no-one goes for it unless they want to hawk themselves abroad because everyone* in the UK knows about it and it's not seen as a classy look.

    (*Spoiler alert: I didn't)
    All undergraduates at Oxford can come back and get their MA if they want to having been out in the world for 18 months - they don't sell it! It's nothing to do with taught or research based Masters' degrees. Engineering is normally an integrated programme ending up in a masters (MEng) - having studied and taught at Oxford I can say with 100% confidence that anyone who claims they got a "double first" is a total cock. In addition to which it's just a bachelor's degree - it's not even level in the "I am much cleverer than thou" egofest of academia.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,042
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:
    Crossover! It's all trending one way now...
    Tories would likely still have more seats than Labour on those numbers though
    It isn't most seats that matters, it is the ability to command a majority in the Commons. We can do that even if we are a handful of seats behind the Tories.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413
    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:
    You can be highly educated and shockingly negligent to the point of recklessness about the facts. Daniel Hannan regularly falls into that category.
    I wouldn't disagree.

    What puzzles me is this. It's not at all easy to get a good degree from Oxbridge or a Russell Group University. You have to be bright. But, quite frequently, people who have obtained such degrees act incompetently in later life.
    A degree simply means you can be trained to think a certain way, it provides no guarantees on capability or character
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,387
    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    "A "double first" at Oxford usually informally refers to first-class honours in both components of an undergraduate degree, i.e. Moderations/Prelims and the Final Honour School, or in both the bachelor's and master's components of an integrated master's degree."
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_undergraduate_degree_classification

    Google is your friend.
    So he got a first in the first bit of his undergraduate degree and a first in the second bit of his undergraduate degree. So he got a first overall. But for some godforsaken reason Oxford calls this a "Double First". Ok, good to know.

    Incidentally, what's an "integrated batchelors and masters" degree? Is it just a four-year Batchelor's. Masters degrees aren't divided into 1/2.1/2.2/3etc, they're divided into "Distinction/Pass/Fail" or similar.
    (Heard this secondhand, so sorry if it's BS, but...)

    Is that the thing where Oxford will sell you a Masters for an extra £50 when you complete your degree... but apparently no-one goes for it unless they want to hawk themselves abroad because everyone* in the UK knows about it and it's not seen as a classy look.

    (*Spoiler alert: I didn't)
    I don't know. The anecdote I believe comes from an episode of Yes Minister. But it is possible to get a Master's degree from Oxford in the conventional manner, after one year's study comprising a compulsory nine-month taught course and an optional three-months thesis. If you pass the nine-month element then drop out or fail the thesis you get a Diploma. If you pass the nine-month element and the thesis you get the Master's degree.

    As an aside, I've just applied to do a Masters' Degree, in Military History, with Buckingham University. It will be the first time in thirty years that I've done an academic course.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,264
    edited March 2019
    Scott_P said:
    Have the EU not said that a short extension cannot subsequently be further extended ?

    It is either or (though I suppose it's possible a long extension might still get curtailed).

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,219

    Despite all the Brexit bollocks the economy moves on with jobs and wages both moving in the right direction

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47622415

    I’m just out of a conference where one of the sobering statistics given was that 17 million employees have less than £100 savings.
    Yang gang 2020 UBI baby :D
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414
    No decision taken in Cabinet today.
    Surprised?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,187
    edited March 2019

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:
    Crossover! It's all trending one way now...
    Tories would likely still have more seats than Labour on those numbers though
    It isn't most seats that matters, it is the ability to command a majority in the Commons. We can do that even if we are a handful of seats behind the Tories.
    There would only be a handful of seats in it either way agreed and Labour would almost certainly go into a confidence and supply agreement with the SNP to form a government which means BINO or EUref2
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,167
    edited March 2019
    Daniel Hannan, in his general standards of intellectual rigour, is not a good advert for firsts from Oxford, if that's what he got.

    Einstein failed his general entrance exam at Zurich, although he got exceptional marks in Maths and Physics.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,914
    edited March 2019

    Those uploads must have been done by an organised group.

    There are more than enough idiots in the world to do such a thing without organisation, and as soon as it becomes clear that such content is being removed the idiots will go bananas to keep posting.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,136
    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:
    You can be highly educated and shockingly negligent to the point of recklessness about the facts. Daniel Hannan regularly falls into that category.
    I wouldn't disagree.

    What puzzles me is this. It's not at all easy to get a good degree from Oxbridge or a Russell Group University. You have to be bright. But, quite frequently, people who have obtained such degrees act incompetently in later life.
    Daniel Hannan isn't incompetent. He has obtained a extremely well paid job with little success criteria, devoted the resultant free time to write polemics, traveled widely to promulgate those polemics, played a crucial part in generating the momentum for the referendum, helped win it, and on departing the EP will receive a £150k payoff. That's not incompetence. His flaw is that he is capable of holding a view of the world untrammeled by doubt or responsibility. Anything and everything that goes wrong is the fault of others : if it wasn't for other people things would be great. Parenthetically, he is also childlike, but that's more a personal quirk than a flaw.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,725
    viewcode said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:
    You can be highly educated and shockingly negligent to the point of recklessness about the facts. Daniel Hannan regularly falls into that category.
    I wouldn't disagree.

    What puzzles me is this. It's not at all easy to get a good degree from Oxbridge or a Russell Group University. You have to be bright. But, quite frequently, people who have obtained such degrees act incompetently in later life.
    Daniel Hannan isn't incompetent. He has obtained a extremely well paid job with little success criteria, devoted the resultant free time to write polemics, traveled widely to promulgate those polemics, played a crucial part in generating the momentum for the referendum, helped win it, and on departing the EP will receive a £150k payoff. That's not incompetence. His flaw is that he is capable of holding a view of the world untrammeled by doubt or responsibility. Anything and everything that goes wrong is the fault of others : if it wasn't for other people things would be great. Parenthetically, he is also childlike, but that's more a personal quirk than a flaw.
    His appeal is surprisingly broad.

    https://twitter.com/jairbolsonaro/status/1106720744564801541?s=21
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,167
    edited March 2019
    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1107989414175797248

    In the reams of speculative unsourced quotes and briefings of the last year, something looks a bit different about this one. It's the detail and comprehensiveness of the picture and course painted in one tweet, and the foreclosing of possibilities.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,136
    Sean_F said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    "A "double first" at Oxford usually informally refers to first-class honours in both components of an undergraduate degree, i.e. Moderations/Prelims and the Final Honour School, or in both the bachelor's and master's components of an integrated master's degree."
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_undergraduate_degree_classification

    Google is your friend.
    So he got a first in the first bit of his undergraduate degree and a first in the second bit of his undergraduate degree. So he got a first overall. But for some godforsaken reason Oxford calls this a "Double First". Ok, good to know.

    Incidentally, what's an "integrated batchelors and masters" degree? Is it just a four-year Batchelor's. Masters degrees aren't divided into 1/2.1/2.2/3etc, they're divided into "Distinction/Pass/Fail" or similar.
    (Heard this secondhand, so sorry if it's BS, but...)

    Is that the thing where Oxford will sell you a Masters for an extra £50 when you complete your degree... but apparently no-one goes for it unless they want to hawk themselves abroad because everyone* in the UK knows about it and it's not seen as a classy look.

    (*Spoiler alert: I didn't)
    I don't know. The anecdote I believe comes from an episode of Yes Minister. But it is possible to get a Master's degree from Oxford in the conventional manner, after one year's study comprising a compulsory nine-month taught course and an optional three-months thesis. If you pass the nine-month element then drop out or fail the thesis you get a Diploma. If you pass the nine-month element and the thesis you get the Master's degree.

    As an aside, I've just applied to do a Masters' Degree, in Military History, with Buckingham University. It will be the first time in thirty years that I've done an academic course.
    Good grief, I am so jealous! Well done you!
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,580
    Sean_F said:
    Indeed a very stupid comment by Peck.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Apparently another YouGov out showing the Tory lead down to 35-33.LD on 11.

  • glwglw Posts: 9,914

    "As good as possible"? It's their decision to just publish and promote whatever anyone gives them without any human oversight. Saying that it's not "possible" to do any better isn't a defense, it's pointing out a fundamental flaw in their own product.

    Hundreds of hours of video are uploaded to YouTube every minute. You would need literally tens of thousands of people watching video round the clock to provide even the most basic human screening, never mind the expert evaluation to deal with corner cases. It is a very difficult problem, and one that is only getting harder as more and more content distribution is automated.

    You only have to look at how hard it is for well funded organisations like the Premier League to fight illegal streaming. That is a very narrow scope, a lot of effort goes into thwarting it, and yet they fail miserably.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,580
    viewcode said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:
    You can be highly educated and shockingly negligent to the point of recklessness about the facts. Daniel Hannan regularly falls into that category.
    I wouldn't disagree.

    What puzzles me is this. It's not at all easy to get a good degree from Oxbridge or a Russell Group University. You have to be bright. But, quite frequently, people who have obtained such degrees act incompetently in later life.
    Daniel Hannan isn't incompetent. He has obtained a extremely well paid job with little success criteria, devoted the resultant free time to write polemics, traveled widely to promulgate those polemics, played a crucial part in generating the momentum for the referendum, helped win it, and on departing the EP will receive a £150k payoff. That's not incompetence. His flaw is that he is capable of holding a view of the world untrammeled by doubt or responsibility. Anything and everything that goes wrong is the fault of others : if it wasn't for other people things would be great. Parenthetically, he is also childlike, but that's more a personal quirk than a flaw.
    Clearly you have never bothered to read any of the books he has written or you would not make such ill informed comments. Much of what he writes about could have come straight from a Lib Dem manifesto.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413
    so youll be voting for him ?

    you appear to have taken on the role of his PR agent
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,497
    Sean_F said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    "A "double first" at Oxford usually informally refers to first-class honours in both components of an undergraduate degree, i.e. Moderations/Prelims and the Final Honour School, or in both the bachelor's and master's components of an integrated master's degree."
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_undergraduate_degree_classification

    Google is your friend.
    So he got a first in the first bit of his undergraduate degree and a first in the second bit of his undergraduate degree. So he got a first overall. But for some godforsaken reason Oxford calls this a "Double First". Ok, good to know.

    Incidentally, what's an "integrated batchelors and masters" degree? Is it just a four-year Batchelor's. Masters degrees aren't divided into 1/2.1/2.2/3etc, they're divided into "Distinction/Pass/Fail" or similar.
    (Heard this secondhand, so sorry if it's BS, but...)

    Is that the thing where Oxford will sell you a Masters for an extra £50 when you complete your degree... but apparently no-one goes for it unless they want to hawk themselves abroad because everyone* in the UK knows about it and it's not seen as a classy look.

    (*Spoiler alert: I didn't)
    I don't know. The anecdote I believe comes from an episode of Yes Minister. But it is possible to get a Master's degree from Oxford in the conventional manner, after one year's study comprising a compulsory nine-month taught course and an optional three-months thesis. If you pass the nine-month element then drop out or fail the thesis you get a Diploma. If you pass the nine-month element and the thesis you get the Master's degree.

    As an aside, I've just applied to do a Masters' Degree, in Military History, with Buckingham University. It will be the first time in thirty years that I've done an academic course.
    I did something similar. It was very interesting explaining and discussing ideas, and having the discipline of writing to someone else's satisfaction, as opposed to commercially, although I wrote for the professional press.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,253
    A 12 month extension with an escape clause triggered by passing the Withdrawal Agreement. That to me seems like the way to go.
  • so youll be voting for him ?

    you appear to have taken on the role of his PR agent
    Have I?
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Pulpstar said:

    Despite all the Brexit bollocks the economy moves on with jobs and wages both moving in the right direction

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47622415

    I’m just out of a conference where one of the sobering statistics given was that 17 million employees have less than £100 savings.
    Yang gang 2020 UBI baby :D
    I'm all in favour of him remaining irrationally short in the betting for some time to come.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:
    You can be highly educated and shockingly negligent to the point of recklessness about the facts. Daniel Hannan regularly falls into that category.
    I wouldn't disagree.

    What puzzles me is this. It's not at all easy to get a good degree from Oxbridge or a Russell Group University. You have to be bright. But, quite frequently, people who have obtained such degrees act incompetently in later life.
    Though Firsts are a good deal easier to obtain than they were - say - fifty years ago.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    kinabalu said:

    A 12 month extension with an escape clause triggered by passing the Withdrawal Agreement. That to me seems like the way to go.

    An extension to do what?
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:
    You can be highly educated and shockingly negligent to the point of recklessness about the facts. Daniel Hannan regularly falls into that category.
    I wouldn't disagree.

    What puzzles me is this. It's not at all easy to get a good degree from Oxbridge or a Russell Group University. You have to be bright. But, quite frequently, people who have obtained such degrees act incompetently in later life.
    I had an utterly inglorious academic career at Oxford - also reading history a couple of years below Hannan. Most of my failure was down to pure indolence but a lot of it was down to huge amounts of self-doubt. Time after time I found myself seeing eight sides of the problem and wondering which the tutor would prefer. Those who did best had not an iota of doubt about anything at all. Particularly the Union Hack types who dominate the Conservative Party. It's a continuation of getting their slate elected to them.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Scott_P said:
    Didn't he used to be Tessie's spokesman or adviser or something?
  • Danny565 said:

    Scott_P said:
    Didn't he used to be Tessie's spokesman or adviser or something?
    Yup.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,619
    Sean_F said:

    Scott_P said:
    All things is going to be ringing alarm bells like crazy for the EU. Avoiding no-deal crashout is a priority, but there are also other voices very worried about granting an extension without a crystal-clear wish list.
    It is going to take amazing diplomacy to get all 27 to agree to a delay of any form. Not sure we are hearing too much about that side of things.

    Assumptions as usual from UK.
    If I were an EU head of government, I'd say I'd grant a short extension simply to ratify the WA.
    Would that get past Bercow?
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413
    RobD said:

    kinabalu said:

    A 12 month extension with an escape clause triggered by passing the Withdrawal Agreement. That to me seems like the way to go.

    An extension to do what?
    say wibble, pointlessly fight among themselves, piss off the electorate, push MV15 etc.

    all the nonsense they have been doing for the past 2 years and still get paid for.
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679
    edited March 2019
    Remainers becoming radicalised. Revoking Article 50 is now the aim of many of them. Leavers may be the ones calling for a second referendum soon.

    https://twitter.com/SandraDunn1955/status/1107702486268329985
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    edited March 2019
    RobD said:

    kinabalu said:

    A 12 month extension with an escape clause triggered by passing the Withdrawal Agreement. That to me seems like the way to go.

    An extension to do what?
    Con leadership election followed by a general election to attempt to elect a Parliament that can actually agree on something?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,136

    viewcode said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:
    You can be highly educated and shockingly negligent to the point of recklessness about the facts. Daniel Hannan regularly falls into that category.
    I wouldn't disagree.

    What puzzles me is this. It's not at all easy to get a good degree from Oxbridge or a Russell Group University. You have to be bright. But, quite frequently, people who have obtained such degrees act incompetently in later life.
    Daniel Hannan isn't incompetent. He has obtained a extremely well paid job with little success criteria, devoted the resultant free time to write polemics, traveled widely to promulgate those polemics, played a crucial part in generating the momentum for the referendum, helped win it, and on departing the EP will receive a £150k payoff. That's not incompetence. His flaw is that he is capable of holding a view of the world untrammeled by doubt or responsibility. Anything and everything that goes wrong is the fault of others : if it wasn't for other people things would be great. Parenthetically, he is also childlike, but that's more a personal quirk than a flaw.
    Clearly you have never bothered to read any of the books he has written or you would not make such ill informed comments. Much of what he writes about could have come straight from a Lib Dem manifesto.
    We've had this discussion before
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413
    Scott_P said:
    maybe she could bring Cameron along as a diversion
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,219
    kinabalu said:

    A 12 month extension with an escape clause triggered by passing the Withdrawal Agreement. That to me seems like the way to go.

    And at the end of the twelve months ?
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    Good thread on the extension. If there is a short extension, a further extension is very problematic because by then we will have withdrawn from the EU parliament and it would be difficult to slot back in again. If there is a long extension, EU elections will happen and in principle further extensions are possible.

    https://twitter.com/BBCkatyaadler/status/1107967874163970048
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413

    Remainers becoming radicalised. Revoking Article 50 is now the aim of many of them. Leavers may be the ones calling for a second referendum soon.

    https://twitter.com/SandraDunn1955/status/1107702486268329985

    I hope they realise theyll get steamed to death in an ocean of boiling piss :-)
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,497
    DougSeal said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:
    You can be highly educated and shockingly negligent to the point of recklessness about the facts. Daniel Hannan regularly falls into that category.
    I wouldn't disagree.

    What puzzles me is this. It's not at all easy to get a good degree from Oxbridge or a Russell Group University. You have to be bright. But, quite frequently, people who have obtained such degrees act incompetently in later life.
    I had an utterly inglorious academic career at Oxford - also reading history a couple of years below Hannan. Most of my failure was down to pure indolence but a lot of it was down to huge amounts of self-doubt. Time after time I found myself seeing eight sides of the problem and wondering which the tutor would prefer. Those who did best had not an iota of doubt about anything at all. Particularly the Union Hack types who dominate the Conservative Party. It's a continuation of getting their slate elected to them.
    I wonder, seriously, what our History teacher and former academic Ydoethur, would say about that.
    Friend of mine was a Theology don and he told me that arguing ones case was, effectively, the chief skill learnt by his students.
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679

    Remainers becoming radicalised. Revoking Article 50 is now the aim of many of them. Leavers may be the ones calling for a second referendum soon.

    https://twitter.com/SandraDunn1955/status/1107702486268329985

    I hope they realise theyll get steamed to death in an ocean of boiling piss :-)
    I don't like your opinions but I love your turn of phrase.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    FF43 said:

    Good thread on the extension. If there is a short extension, a further extension is very problematic because by then we will have withdrawn from the EU parliament and it would be difficult to slot back in again. If there is a long extension, EU elections will happen and in principle further extensions are possible.

    https://twitter.com/BBCkatyaadler/status/1107967874163970048

    Both sound sub-optimal. I suppose those who drafted the MV amendment can’t beleive their luck. It’s working out exactly as planned.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,497
    What's rattled his cage this time, wonder.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    Trump seems to be having a bad start to his day. Maybe he had a nightmare that Biden was running.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    I assume he’s referring to their coverage of Jez’s alleged antisemitism?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,133
    RobD said:

    I assume he’s referring to their coverage of Jez’s alleged antisemitism?
    Or he heard Fox News have hired Donna Brazile?
  • What's rattled his cage this time, wonder.
    Mueller time?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,253
    RobD said:

    An extension to do what?

    I see the purpose as being so that parliament can agree the terms under which we leave.
  • The EU are not going to indulge the UK is granting us a multiple choice extension. Nor are they going to indulge May in giving her just a touch longer as her deal will pass honest. It'll be like the Dead Parrot sketch, with Barnier pointing at May's deal saying "I'll tell you what's wrong with it, it's dead, that's what's wrong with it"

    We are going to have to give them a reason. "Because I have no other options and need to wait until I can persuade the Queen to restart parliament" isn't a valid reason. We need a general election - a 3 month delay to hold an election and then either sort ourselves out with the legislation required to leave, or to revoke the whole thing.

    I now see May as Veruca Salt out of Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. She will cross her arms scowl and say "shan't" at every option presented other than her deal.

    Batten down your pants, we're going no deal...

  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413

    Another test of just how stupid is this government

    Sainsbury and ASDA promise lower prices and better treatment of suppliers.

    Greg Clark probably believes them.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business/companies
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,253
    Pulpstar said:

    And at the end of the twelve months ?

    If we get to there still stuck then the ultimate choice of No Deal or Revoke will have to be confronted.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,497

    The EU are not going to indulge the UK is granting us a multiple choice extension. Nor are they going to indulge May in giving her just a touch longer as her deal will pass honest. It'll be like the Dead Parrot sketch, with Barnier pointing at May's deal saying "I'll tell you what's wrong with it, it's dead, that's what's wrong with it"

    We are going to have to give them a reason. "Because I have no other options and need to wait until I can persuade the Queen to restart parliament" isn't a valid reason. We need a general election - a 3 month delay to hold an election and then either sort ourselves out with the legislation required to leave, or to revoke the whole thing.

    I now see May as Veruca Salt out of Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. She will cross her arms scowl and say "shan't" at every option presented other than her deal.

    Batten down your pants, we're going no deal...

    You don't think she'll be like Violet Elizabeth Bott and thcream and thcream until she makes herself thick?
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    kingbongo said:

    viewcode said:

    "A "double first" at Oxford usually informally refers to first-class honours in both components of an undergraduate degree, i.e. Moderations/Prelims and the Final Honour School, or in both the bachelor's and master's components of an integrated master's degree."
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_undergraduate_degree_classification

    Google is your friend.
    So he got a first in the first bit of his undergraduate degree and a first in the second bit of his undergraduate degree. So he got a first overall. But for some godforsaken reason Oxford calls this a "Double First". Ok, good to know.

    Incidentally, what's an "integrated batchelors and masters" degree? Is it just a four-year Batchelor's. Masters degrees aren't divided into 1/2.1/2.2/3etc, they're divided into "Distinction/Pass/Fail" or similar.
    (Heard this secondhand, so sorry if it's BS, but...)

    Is that the thing where Oxford will sell you a Masters for an extra £50 when you complete your degree... but apparently no-one goes for it unless they want to hawk themselves abroad because everyone* in the UK knows about it and it's not seen as a classy look.

    (*Spoiler alert: I didn't)
    All undergraduates at Oxford can come back and get their MA if they want to having been out in the world for 18 months - they don't sell it! It's nothing to do with taught or research based Masters' degrees. Engineering is normally an integrated programme ending up in a masters (MEng) - having studied and taught at Oxford I can say with 100% confidence that anyone who claims they got a "double first" is a total cock. In addition to which it's just a bachelor's degree - it's not even level in the "I am much cleverer than thou" egofest of academia.
    They do charge you. So it is a sale, but a pretty clear one.
  • TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,683
    BigIan said:

    I wish the Government could table the withdrawal bill for the third time and see if the Speaker disallows it then hopefully use Parliamentary procedures to have no further business until the day after Brexit unless the Speaker relents...heyho...

    — Lord Ashcroft (@LordAshcroft) March 19, 2019


    I had wondered whether someone would attempt a filibuster to achieve the same end (I seem to recall parliamentary days being lost that way in the past).
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,497
    The Electoral Reform Society says that it's no wonder people are divorced from Parliament; most votes cast in general elections made no difference to who was elected.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    As you rightly predicted, the same people who twice voted against the deal are now furious that Bercow might not allow them to vote for it.
  • Harris_TweedHarris_Tweed Posts: 1,337
    matt said:

    kingbongo said:

    viewcode said:

    "A "double first" at Oxford usually informally refers to first-class honours in both components of an undergraduate degree, i.e. Moderations/Prelims and the Final Honour School, or in both the bachelor's and master's components of an integrated master's degree."
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_undergraduate_degree_classification

    Google is your friend.
    So he got a first in the first bit of his undergraduate degree and a first in the second bit of his undergraduate degree. So he got a first overall. But for some godforsaken reason Oxford calls this a "Double First". Ok, good to know.

    Incidentally, what's an "integrated batchelors and masters" degree? Is it just a four-year Batchelor's. Masters degrees aren't divided into 1/2.1/2.2/3etc, they're divided into "Distinction/Pass/Fail" or similar.
    (Heard this secondhand, so sorry if it's BS, but...)

    Is that the thing where Oxford will sell you a Masters for an extra £50 when you complete your degree... but apparently no-one goes for it unless they want to hawk themselves abroad because everyone* in the UK knows about it and it's not seen as a classy look.

    (*Spoiler alert: I didn't)
    All undergraduates at Oxford can come back and get their MA if they want to having been out in the world for 18 months - they don't sell it! It's nothing to do with taught or research based Masters' degrees. Engineering is normally an integrated programme ending up in a masters (MEng) - having studied and taught at Oxford I can say with 100% confidence that anyone who claims they got a "double first" is a total cock. In addition to which it's just a bachelor's degree - it's not even level in the "I am much cleverer than thou" egofest of academia.
    They do charge you. So it is a sale, but a pretty clear one.
    Presumably the "cost" of a nice certificate. Happy to withdraw "sell", though :)
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821

    The Electoral Reform Society says that it's no wonder people are divorced from Parliament; most votes cast in general elections made no difference to who was elected.
    That's true in any electoral system.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239
    The fact that May still appears to think "the people" have a settled, unanimous view explains a lot.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,497

    The Electoral Reform Society says that it's no wonder people are divorced from Parliament; most votes cast in general elections made no difference to who was elected.
    That's true in any electoral system.
    Might not get ones first choice under STV but it gets a lot closer.
  • Senior members of the shadow cabinet have told The Londoner that they understand Jeremy Corbyn would like to step down as leader of the Labour Party.

    The sources say that a number of those around the leader are also of the view that Corbyn, who is 70 in May, would like to pass on the reins of his surprisingly successful socialist project.

    One member of the shadow cabinet told us: “He’s tired and fed up.” Another: “Corbyn is ready to step down. He wants to step down.”

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/londoners-diary/the-londoner-corbyn-ponders-leadership-exit-a4094546.html
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,603

    DougSeal said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:
    You can be highly educated and shockingly negligent to the point of recklessness about the facts. Daniel Hannan regularly falls into that category.
    I wouldn't disagree.

    What puzzles me is this. It's not at all easy to get a good degree from Oxbridge or a Russell Group University. You have to be bright. But, quite frequently, people who have obtained such degrees act incompetently in later life.
    I had an utterly inglorious academic career at Oxford - also reading history a couple of years below Hannan. Most of my failure was down to pure indolence but a lot of it was down to huge amounts of self-doubt. Time after time I found myself seeing eight sides of the problem and wondering which the tutor would prefer. Those who did best had not an iota of doubt about anything at all. Particularly the Union Hack types who dominate the Conservative Party. It's a continuation of getting their slate elected to them.
    I wonder, seriously, what our History teacher and former academic Ydoethur, would say about that.
    Friend of mine was a Theology don and he told me that arguing ones case was, effectively, the chief skill learnt by his students.
    One of the big problems I see is that we are generating people who are capable of talking confidently without hesitation or deviation. As undergraduates (and at their peak ability to memorise content) they underpin the opinion they express with evidence.

    As they progress, and especially if the evidence does not support their case, the ability to speak with confidence and authority persists, but the connection of opinion to evidence is allowed to drop, and this is where we end up.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,133
    edited March 2019

    Senior members of the shadow cabinet have told The Londoner that they understand Jeremy Corbyn would like to step down as leader of the Labour Party.

    The sources say that a number of those around the leader are also of the view that Corbyn, who is 70 in May, would like to pass on the reins of his surprisingly successful socialist project.

    One member of the shadow cabinet told us: “He’s tired and fed up.” Another: “Corbyn is ready to step down. He wants to step down.”

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/londoners-diary/the-londoner-corbyn-ponders-leadership-exit-a4094546.html

    Too much like a real job! And all those Sunday's, he hates the Sundays.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,497

    Senior members of the shadow cabinet have told The Londoner that they understand Jeremy Corbyn would like to step down as leader of the Labour Party.

    The sources say that a number of those around the leader are also of the view that Corbyn, who is 70 in May, would like to pass on the reins of his surprisingly successful socialist project.

    One member of the shadow cabinet told us: “He’s tired and fed up.” Another: “Corbyn is ready to step down. He wants to step down.”

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/londoners-diary/the-londoner-corbyn-ponders-leadership-exit-a4094546.html

    Cat > pigeons.

    Just imagine a more widely popular Labour leader. Another nightmare for Mrs May.
This discussion has been closed.