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  • DadgeDadge Posts: 2,052
    algarkirk said:

    On Cyclefree's Brexit predictions:

    Alternatively, EU cuts us some slack while they allow an opportunity for the sane to take over the process? Certainly, hope so …

    Definitely agree that her deal won't pass - no indications from the ERG that they're going to shift position.

    TMs deal will pass. It isn't even March yet. Long way to go.

    Can't see it. 230 is a mountain to climb. Is she expecting to get votes from Labour MPs? Then maybe she should be talking to them instead of to Barnier.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331
    After the next election, once he's been elevated to the Lords having lost his HoC seat?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    Massive softening of stance from JRM (and by default the rest of the ERG).
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871
    SNP claiming Labour and some Tory support for their amendment. Not what I have heard; if true, maybe it is in play?
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,710

    Cyclefree said:

    (snip)

    3. She doesn’t have the balls to revoke Article 50 or to call for a new referendum - which are, IMO, the only sensible options available to us now.

    So it will be a No Deal exit. The consequences will be awful. Our relations with our European neighbours will be ruined for years

    Theresa May's Brexit policy: an executive summary

    We are leaving on March 29th
    We are leaving on March 29th
    We are leaving on March 29th
    We are leaving on March 29th
    We are leaving on March 29th
    We are leaving on March 29th
    We are leaving on March 29th
    We are leaving on March 29th
    ...
    (repeated five million times)
    ...
    We are leaving on March 29th
    We are leaving on March 29th
    We are leaving on March 29th
    We are leaving on March 29th
    We are leaving on March 29th
    We are leaving on March 29th
    We are leaving on March 29th
    We are leaving on March 29th
    We are leaving if and when the House of Commons says so

    Theresa May is obviously only interested in one thing: whatever keeps Theresa May in power for another five minutes. She is therefore capable of anything - especially something, such as Revocation, which (if I understand correctly) is entirely within her power to implement. The likelihood of this outcome shouldn't be underestimated.
    The impressive thing is she never ever shifts her position but is still being forced backwards incrementally.

    The political equivalent of putting the heavy plinth on wheels and rolling it back a few feet through sheer weight of numbers.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,742
    IanB2 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    (snip)

    3. She doesn’t have the balls to revoke Article 50 or to call for a new referendum - which are, IMO, the only sensible options available to us now.

    So it will be a No Deal exit. The consequences will be awful. Our relations with our European neighbours will be ruined for years

    Theresa May's Brexit policy: an executive summary

    We are leaving on March 29th
    We are leaving on March 29th
    We are leaving on March 29th
    We are leaving on March 29th
    We are leaving on March 29th
    We are leaving on March 29th
    We are leaving on March 29th
    We are leaving on March 29th
    ...
    (repeated five million times)
    ...
    We are leaving on March 29th
    We are leaving on March 29th
    We are leaving on March 29th
    We are leaving on March 29th
    We are leaving on March 29th
    We are leaving on March 29th
    We are leaving on March 29th
    We are leaving on March 29th
    We are leaving if and when the House of Commons says so

    Theresa May is obviously only interested in one thing: whatever keeps Theresa May in power for another five minutes. She is therefore capable of anything - especially something, such as Revocation, which (if I understand correctly) is entirely within her power to implement. The likelihood of this outcome shouldn't be underestimated.
    Surely a long extension suits her better? No-one except Boris wants the job until Brexit is done, one way or the other. And no-one apart from Boris wants him in charge meanwhile.
    A long extension is Plan B, and it makes a lot of sense. In many ways it is the WA by default, only being in pretending to be out rather than out pretending to be in.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,842
    IanB2 said:

    SNP claiming Labour and some Tory support for their amendment. Not what I have heard; if true, maybe it is in play?

    When was the last time an amendment tabled by the SNP passed? Just asking for a friend
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,752
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Sadly there is no shortage of stories: Bob Blackman’s sharing of a tweet by the far-right activist Tommy Robinson, or his membership of anti-Muslim Facebook groups; the Conservative councillor who shared an article calling Muslims “parasites”; the local council candidate who advocated repatriation. And the blatantly, deliberately Islamophobic mayoral campaign against Sadiq Khan in London. Party members have been calling radio phone-ins to speak about their experiences, but are too afraid to give their names; others have confided in me but daren’t speak up in public as doing so would “finish them politically”. These include the dedicated volunteers who we convinced the party had changed. If we don’t fix our latest bigotry blindspot, they will abandon us – and a coming generation will not see the party as a space for them.
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jul/04/inquiry-tory-islamophobia

    This was written by someone called Sayeeda Warsi. I don't know who she is, but she sounds a bit foreign to me.

    Sayeeda Warsi hates atheists, allegedly:

    http://humanistlife.org.uk/2014/06/26/militant-atheism/

    Christian Franz? Sounds a bit foreign.
    But from your perspective, not as bad as Goldstein or Rothschild, presumably?

    You are trying too hard.
    Goldstein and Rothschild sound a bit foreign too. When will you people ever learn that foreigners are foreigners, and that's it?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362

    malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    kle4 said:

    I know it's him, but gotta say I think he's called this one right.
    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1100709432596541440

    If your first instinct is to defend someone accused of anti-semitism, what does that say about you? If your response to one of your MPs bullied for being Jewish is not to speak to her at all, what does that say about you?

    Corbyn comes across as a deeply unpleasant and horrible person.
    He's an interesting person to contemplate as on the surface he does come across generally as personable, polite and genial. But even if you are someone who thinks he is great, for sake of argument, there is a hard edge to him at times. A little snap here, some willful blindness there, a failure to act there. It adds up.

    Being as charitable as I can be, I don't doubt Corbyn would not think of himself as instinctively defending someone accused of anti-semitism. But even if we assume that I do think he takes the normal political behaviour of instinctively defending a political ally to a severe extreme.
    One of the things I distrust about Corbyn and his allies is that they espouse discourse, he did so today at PMQs, but they also say things like they wouldn’t be friends with a Tory, as if they are innately evil.
    You trying to say Tories are not innately evil
    Not all surely Malc !!!
    I am sure there are a few like you G , I was joking.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172

    After the next election, once he's been elevated to the Lords having lost his HoC seat?
    It is surely worth the Tories refusing to stand in Derby North -- Chris Williamson is much more effective in ensuring a Tory Victory in a General Election than Another Tory Standard Numpty would be as Derby North MP.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,710

    IanB2 said:

    SNP claiming Labour and some Tory support for their amendment. Not what I have heard; if true, maybe it is in play?

    When was the last time an amendment tabled by the SNP passed? Just asking for a friend
    This one won't pass but I do expect it to get a lot more votes than many of the recent SNP Brexit-related amendments.

    If it doesn't there'll be quite a lot of hypocrites in the HoC.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,842

    After the next election, once he's been elevated to the Lords having lost his HoC seat?
    He is probably hoping that Watson is forced out so he can take over as deputy
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362

    IanB2 said:

    SNP claiming Labour and some Tory support for their amendment. Not what I have heard; if true, maybe it is in play?

    When was the last time an amendment tabled by the SNP passed? Just asking for a friend
    Labour policy is to abstain no matter how good the policy is so it has no hope.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,705
    Very good thread header @Cyclefree, thanks.

    I feel it really could happen this way. But then again there are so many possibilities...
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362

    IanB2 said:

    SNP claiming Labour and some Tory support for their amendment. Not what I have heard; if true, maybe it is in play?

    When was the last time an amendment tabled by the SNP passed? Just asking for a friend
    This one won't pass but I do expect it to get a lot more votes than many of the recent SNP Brexit-related amendments.

    If it doesn't there'll be quite a lot of hypocrites in the HoC.
    Just quite a lot ?
  • malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    kle4 said:

    I know it's him, but gotta say I think he's called this one right.
    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1100709432596541440

    If your first instinct is to defend someone accused of anti-semitism, what does that say about you? If your response to one of your MPs bullied for being Jewish is not to speak to her at all, what does that say about you?

    Corbyn comes across as a deeply unpleasant and horrible person.
    He's an interesting person to contemplate as on the surface he does come across generally as personable, polite and genial. But even if you are someone who thinks he is great, for sake of argument, there is a hard edge to him at times. A little snap here, some willful blindness there, a failure to act there. It adds up.

    Being as charitable as I can be, I don't doubt Corbyn would not think of himself as instinctively defending someone accused of anti-semitism. But even if we assume that I do think he takes the normal political behaviour of instinctively defending a political ally to a severe extreme.
    One of the things I distrust about Corbyn and his allies is that they espouse discourse, he did so today at PMQs, but they also say things like they wouldn’t be friends with a Tory, as if they are innately evil.
    You trying to say Tories are not innately evil
    Not all surely Malc !!!
    I am sure there are a few like you G , I was joking.
    I know you were
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,710
    malcolmg said:

    IanB2 said:

    SNP claiming Labour and some Tory support for their amendment. Not what I have heard; if true, maybe it is in play?

    When was the last time an amendment tabled by the SNP passed? Just asking for a friend
    This one won't pass but I do expect it to get a lot more votes than many of the recent SNP Brexit-related amendments.

    If it doesn't there'll be quite a lot of hypocrites in the HoC.
    Just quite a lot ?
    Yes, I have rather underplayed that haven't I...
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,732

    Cyclefree said:

    (snip)

    3. She doesn’t have the balls to revoke Article 50 or to call for a new referendum - which are, IMO, the only sensible options available to us now.

    So it will be a No Deal exit. The consequences will be awful. Our relations with our European neighbours will be ruined for years

    Theresa May's Brexit policy: an executive summary

    We are leaving on March 29th
    We are leaving on March 29th
    We are leaving on March 29th
    We are leaving on March 29th
    We are leaving on March 29th
    We are leaving on March 29th
    We are leaving on March 29th
    We are leaving on March 29th
    ...
    (repeated five million times)
    ...
    We are leaving on March 29th
    We are leaving on March 29th
    We are leaving on March 29th
    We are leaving on March 29th
    We are leaving on March 29th
    We are leaving on March 29th
    We are leaving on March 29th
    We are leaving on March 29th
    We are leaving if and when the House of Commons says so

    Theresa May is obviously only interested in one thing: whatever keeps Theresa May in power for another five minutes. She is therefore capable of anything - especially something, such as Revocation, which (if I understand correctly) is entirely within her power to implement. The likelihood of this outcome shouldn't be underestimated.
    The impressive thing is she never ever shifts her position but is still being forced backwards incrementally.

    The political equivalent of putting the heavy plinth on wheels and rolling it back a few feet through sheer weight of numbers.
    She’s a formidable machine politician.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871

    IanB2 said:

    SNP claiming Labour and some Tory support for their amendment. Not what I have heard; if true, maybe it is in play?

    When was the last time an amendment tabled by the SNP passed? Just asking for a friend
    For sure. But it does Labour no credit that they think like that.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,626
    Dadge said:

    malcolmg said:

    Cyclefree said:

    algarkirk said:

    rpjs said:



    We'll get down to the last few days of March with the only possible options being no deal or revoke. And revoke it will be. Probably with some sort of fig leaf that everyone will go away and put their thinking caps on to come up with a practical, this-time-it'll-work-honest, plan for Brexit which, once agreed, will result in a re-invocation of A50.

    Except of course that will never happen, and ultimately we'll just all agree to never speak of this again.

    Revoke can safely be put in the category labelled Impossible. As can No Deal. As can lengthy can-kicking. Only one thing left after that for now, and that's tough enough but not nearly as tough as the others.

    Time for some predictions from me, which you can all laugh at in due course.

    1. Mrs May does not have the votes for her deal, even with some tweaking and helpful clarifications from the EU.
    2. The EU won’t grant a short extension for no purpose.
    3. She doesn’t have the balls to revoke Article 50 or to call for a new referendum - which are, IMO, the only sensible options available to us now.

    So it will be a No Deal exit. The consequences will be awful. Our relations with our European neighbours will be ruined for years
    Sounds most likely outcome to me. These people are crazy.
    The problem with this theory is that if we set sail for No Deal, May's govt will collapse. She could do a Corbyn and replace the rebels, but that won't help her - they'll probably use the nuclear option and force a general election if she doesn't revoke A50.
    How does forcing a GE stop No Deal Brexit?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,876
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    kle4 said:

    I know it's him, but gotta say I think he's called this one right.
    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1100709432596541440

    If your first instinct is to defend someone accused of anti-semitism, what does that say about you? If your response to one of your MPs bullied for being Jewish is not to speak to her at all, what does that say about you?

    Corbyn comes across as a deeply unpleasant and horrible person.
    He's an interesting person to contemplate as on the surface he does come across generally as personable, polite and genial. But even if you are someone who thinks he is great, for sake of argument, there is a hard edge to him at times. A little snap here, some willful blindness there, a failure to act there. It adds up.

    Being as charitable as I can be, I don't doubt Corbyn would not think of himself as instinctively defending someone accused of anti-semitism. But even if we assume that I do think he takes the normal political behaviour of instinctively defending a political ally to a severe extreme.
    One of the things I distrust about Corbyn and his allies is that they espouse discourse, he did so today at PMQs, but they also say things like they wouldn’t be friends with a Tory, as if they are innately evil.
    You trying to say Tories are not innately evil
    Well everyone knows the members are innately evil but some of their voters are ok malc!
    I am a member by the way !!!!
    You hide the evil well, kudos :)
    Have you ever been to one of his barbecues? Just saying.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Quick summary of Cohens testimony
    I don't have evidence of anything but here is some tasty insinuation and hearsay, please can I go to jail for less time? Orange man is bad, I'm just a patsy. Blah blah blah
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,705
    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1100819103940526080

    It would be nice if the vote is next week - I am on a cruise for two weeks from 12th March, with very limited internet access. I can't bear the thought of missing the denouement after following this soggy drama for three years!
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    May wants to avoid any responsibility for any decisions so will be happy to have MPs take the flak from the Brexit Death Cult voter group wanting a no deal .

    LINO . Leader in name only !
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    kle4 said:

    I know it's him, but gotta say I think he's called this one right.
    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1100709432596541440

    If your first instinct is to defend someone accused of anti-semitism, what does that say about you? If your response to one of your MPs bullied for being Jewish is not to speak to her at all, what does that say about you?

    Corbyn comes across as a deeply unpleasant and horrible person.
    He's an interesting person to contemplate as on the surface he does come across generally as personable, polite and genial. But even if you are someone who thinks he is great, for sake of argument, there is a hard edge to him at times. A little snap here, some willful blindness there, a failure to act there. It adds up.

    Being as charitable as I can be, I don't doubt Corbyn would not think of himself as instinctively defending someone accused of anti-semitism. But even if we assume that I do think he takes the normal political behaviour of instinctively defending a political ally to a severe extreme.
    One of the things I distrust about Corbyn and his allies is that they espouse discourse, he did so today at PMQs, but they also say things like they wouldn’t be friends with a Tory, as if they are innately evil.
    You trying to say Tories are not innately evil
    Well everyone knows the members are innately evil but some of their voters are ok malc!
    I am a member by the way !!!!
    You hide the evil well, kudos :)
    Have you ever been to one of his barbecues? Just saying.
    Are you back to 100% fighting fit now David
  • The EU's priority in all of this is to protect the remaining 27 members and demonstrate that the EU is a club worth being a part of, and part of that is not being blamed for destabilising the European economy by causing a no deal rupture. Trying to force a two year extension on the UK would risk that rupture, because it would be like lobbing a grenade into UK politics. A three month extension is much more likely: it gives more time for UK politicians to agree a way forward and at the least gives both sides more time to prepare for no deal in June. The EU really doesn't want the UK to participate in the elections, and they have other issues they want to turn to in July. So I don't accept the premise of the question. If it did happen, the UK's only reasonable courses of action would be to accept or to go back and pass the deal - in which case the EU would certainly accept a short delay for implementation. I think May would use the offer of a 2 year delay as a final threat to the ERG to pressure them to agree the deal, and she'd accept the 2 year delay if that failed. But she might not survive that.
  • From what I am reading on Facebook, the suspension of Williamson might just be the final straw that unleashes full blown civil war in the Labour Party

    According to utter fucking wazzocks unless you support crash Brexit, the Divinity of JC, and think a global Jewish conspiracy takes Netanyahu blood money to brainwash sheeple in the MSM then you must be a Tory.

    I've just read that as the Chair of the Tribune Group signed the letter demanding the removal of Williamson then that group isn't left wing. It's anti Corbyn. Obviously. And therefore Tory.

    Tribune. Not left wing. These entryist fuck have no clue what they are talking about

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,876
    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    kle4 said:

    I know it's him, but gotta say I think he's called this one right.
    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1100709432596541440

    If your first instinct is to defend someone accused of anti-semitism, what does that say about you? If your response to one of your MPs bullied for being Jewish is not to speak to her at all, what does that say about you?

    Corbyn comes across as a deeply unpleasant and horrible person.
    He's an interesting person to contemplate as on the surface he does come across generally as personable, polite and genial. But even if you are someone who thinks he is great, for sake of argument, there is a hard edge to him at times. A little snap here, some willful blindness there, a failure to act there. It adds up.

    Being as charitable as I can be, I don't doubt Corbyn would not think of himself as instinctively defending someone accused of anti-semitism. But even if we assume that I do think he takes the normal political behaviour of instinctively defending a political ally to a severe extreme.
    One of the things I distrust about Corbyn and his allies is that they espouse discourse, he did so today at PMQs, but they also say things like they wouldn’t be friends with a Tory, as if they are innately evil.
    You trying to say Tories are not innately evil
    Well everyone knows the members are innately evil but some of their voters are ok malc!
    I am a member by the way !!!!
    You hide the evil well, kudos :)
    Have you ever been to one of his barbecues? Just saying.
    Are you back to 100% fighting fit now David
    Feeling much better thanks. But no more roast lamb (or babies), much less alcohol, more exercise, weight loss and, probably, an operation to remove my gall bladder. I thought the whole upside of being a Tory was complete self indulgence. It certainly isn't the pleasure of trying to support this utterly inept government.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    DavidL said:

    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    kle4 said:

    I know it's him, but gotta say I think he's called this one right.
    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1100709432596541440

    If your first instinct is to defend someone accused of anti-semitism, what does that say about you? If your response to one of your MPs bullied for being Jewish is not to speak to her at all, what does that say about you?

    Corbyn comes across as a deeply unpleasant and horrible person.
    He's an interesting person to contemplate as on the surface he does come across generally as personable, polite and genial. But even if you are someone who thinks he is great, for sake of argument, there is a hard edge to him at times. A little snap here, some willful blindness there, a failure to act there. It adds up.

    Being as charitable as I can be, I don't doubt Corbyn would not think of himself as instinctively defending someone accused of anti-semitism. But even if we assume that I do think he takes the normal political behaviour of instinctively defending a political ally to a severe extreme.
    One of the things I distrust about Corbyn and his allies is that they espouse discourse, he did so today at PMQs, but they also say things like they wouldn’t be friends with a Tory, as if they are innately evil.
    You trying to say Tories are not innately evil
    Well everyone knows the members are innately evil but some of their voters are ok malc!
    I am a member by the way !!!!
    You hide the evil well, kudos :)
    Have you ever been to one of his barbecues? Just saying.
    Are you back to 100% fighting fit now David
    Feeling much better thanks. But no more roast lamb (or babies), much less alcohol, more exercise, weight loss and, probably, an operation to remove my gall bladder. I thought the whole upside of being a Tory was complete self indulgence. It certainly isn't the pleasure of trying to support this utterly inept government.
    Why is roast lamb bad for you? It is divine. We eat little else in Cumbria........
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Lol Cohen just got hit with another criminal investigation
  • We've just had 'veritable smorgasbord' at the Cohen testimony, so you can cross that one off your bingo card.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,628
    edited February 2019
    Is anyone surprised ?

    ' Crossrail 2 is set to cost over £40bn, the Mayor of London has revealed in a budget document published earlier this week.

    The £41.3bn estimate for the proposed north to south London line is higher than the Greater London Authority's widely cited £30bn budget, which is based on 2014 prices.

    But the real cost is set to be much higher as it estimates the actual construction cost of the project.

    In his final budget for 2019-2020, London mayor Sadiq Khan has put aside £10.4bn for the project between 2023 and 2028, followed by £18.4bn between 2029 and 2033 and £12.5bn from 2033 to 2038.
    '

    http://www.cityam.com/273889/crossrail-2-costs-surge-over-40bn

    Inevitably its not the first time cost projections have shown an increase:

    ' Estimated costs of the Crossrail 2 project have risen by nearly £7bn, according to new Transport for London (TfL) spending plans.

    The 30% increase, of £6.6bn, has been due to the inclusion of costs for new trains and surface works, figures show.

    It means the north-south rail scheme is now expected to cost £20bn for the shorter Metro route and £27.5bn for the longer regional option.
    '

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-30228899
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,876
    Cyclefree said:

    DavidL said:

    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    kle4 said:

    I know it's him, but gotta say I think he's called this one right.
    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1100709432596541440

    If your first instinct is to defend someone accused of anti-semitism, what does that say about you? If your response to one of your MPs bullied for being Jewish is not to speak to her at all, what does that say about you?

    Corbyn comes across as a deeply unpleasant and horrible person.
    He's an interesting person to contemplate as on the surface he does come across generally as personable, polite and genial. But even if you are someone who thinks he is great, for sake of argument, there is a hard edge to him at times. A little snap here, some willful blindness there, a failure to act there. It adds up.

    Being as charitable as I can be, I don't doubt Corbyn would not think of himself as instinctively defending someone accused of anti-semitism. But even if we assume that I do think he takes the normal political behaviour of instinctively defending a political ally to a severe extreme.
    One of the things I distrust about Corbyn and his allies is that they espouse discourse, he did so today at PMQs, but they also say things like they wouldn’t be friends with a Tory, as if they are innately evil.
    You trying to say Tories are not innately evil
    Well everyone knows the members are innately evil but some of their voters are ok malc!
    I am a member by the way !!!!
    You hide the evil well, kudos :)
    Have you ever been to one of his barbecues? Just saying.
    Are you back to 100% fighting fit now David
    Feeling much better thanks. But no more roast lamb (or babies), much less alcohol, more exercise, weight loss and, probably, an operation to remove my gall bladder. I thought the whole upside of being a Tory was complete self indulgence. It certainly isn't the pleasure of trying to support this utterly inept government.
    Why is roast lamb bad for you? It is divine. We eat little else in Cumbria........
    Too fatty and upsets the gall bladder apparently. It was my favourite too. I tried it once since the new year and it was painful, if not nearly as bad as the first episode.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    From what I am reading on Facebook, the suspension of Williamson might just be the final straw that unleashes full blown civil war in the Labour Party

    According to utter fucking wazzocks unless you support crash Brexit, the Divinity of JC, and think a global Jewish conspiracy takes Netanyahu blood money to brainwash sheeple in the MSM then you must be a Tory.

    I've just read that as the Chair of the Tribune Group signed the letter demanding the removal of Williamson then that group isn't left wing. It's anti Corbyn. Obviously. And therefore Tory.

    Tribune. Not left wing. These entryist fuck have no clue what they are talking about

    But the entryists control the Party, and the vast bulk of Labour's MPs continue to enable them because they're too afraid to leave Labour, too emotionally attached to Labour to oppose it (let alone seek to destroy it, which is what is really required,) or both. So they can do whatever the Hell they like. End of.

    Or, to couch it in the terms that you've used, how can there possibly be a civil war when one side won't fight?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1100819103940526080

    It would be nice if the vote is next week - I am on a cruise for two weeks from 12th March, with very limited internet access. I can't bear the thought of missing the denouement after following this soggy drama for three years!

    So you'll miss the extension and the Eastenders drum roll as the closing credits tell you the next episode will be in June.
  • Is anyone surprised ?

    ' Crossrail 2 is set to cost over £40bn, the Mayor of London has revealed in a budget document published earlier this week.

    The £41.3bn estimate for the proposed north to south London line is higher than the Greater London Authority's widely cited £30bn budget, which is based on 2014 prices.

    But the real cost is set to be much higher as it estimates the actual construction cost of the project.

    In his final budget for 2019-2020, London mayor Sadiq Khan has put aside £10.4bn for the project between 2023 and 2028, followed by £18.4bn between 2029 and 2033 and £12.5bn from 2033 to 2038.
    '

    http://www.cityam.com/273889/crossrail-2-costs-surge-over-40bn

    Inevitably its not the first time cost projections have shown an increase:

    ' Estimated costs of the Crossrail 2 project have risen by nearly £7bn, according to new Transport for London (TfL) spending plans.

    The 30% increase, of £6.6bn, has been due to the inclusion of costs for new trains and surface works, figures show.

    It means the north-south rail scheme is now expected to cost £20bn for the shorter Metro route and £27.5bn for the longer regional option.
    '

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-30228899

    To think they cancelled the Northern electrification because it was over budget by a lot less than that.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,876

    Is anyone surprised ?

    ' Crossrail 2 is set to cost over £40bn, the Mayor of London has revealed in a budget document published earlier this week.

    The £41.3bn estimate for the proposed north to south London line is higher than the Greater London Authority's widely cited £30bn budget, which is based on 2014 prices.

    But the real cost is set to be much higher as it estimates the actual construction cost of the project.

    In his final budget for 2019-2020, London mayor Sadiq Khan has put aside £10.4bn for the project between 2023 and 2028, followed by £18.4bn between 2029 and 2033 and £12.5bn from 2033 to 2038.
    '

    http://www.cityam.com/273889/crossrail-2-costs-surge-over-40bn

    Inevitably its not the first time cost projections have shown an increase:

    ' Estimated costs of the Crossrail 2 project have risen by nearly £7bn, according to new Transport for London (TfL) spending plans.

    The 30% increase, of £6.6bn, has been due to the inclusion of costs for new trains and surface works, figures show.

    It means the north-south rail scheme is now expected to cost £20bn for the shorter Metro route and £27.5bn for the longer regional option.
    '

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-30228899

    To think they cancelled the Northern electrification because it was over budget by a lot less than that.
    I think that the key word there was "Northern".
  • DavidL said:

    Cyclefree said:

    DavidL said:

    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    kle4 said:

    I know it's him, but gotta say I think he's called this one right.
    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1100709432596541440

    If your first instinct is to defend someone accused of anti-semitism, what does that say about you? If your response to one of your MPs bullied for being Jewish is not to speak to her at all, what does that say about you?

    Corbyn comes across as a deeply unpleasant and horrible person.

    Being as charitable as I can be, I don't doubt Corbyn would not think of himself as instinctively defending someone accused of anti-semitism. But even if we assume that I do think he takes the normal political behaviour of instinctively defending a political ally to a severe extreme.
    One of the things I distrust about Corbyn and his allies is that they espouse discourse, he did so today at PMQs, but they also say things like they wouldn’t be friends with a Tory, as if they are innately evil.
    You trying to say Tories are not innately evil
    Well everyone knows the members are innately evil but some of their voters are ok malc!
    I am a member by the way !!!!
    You hide the evil well, kudos :)
    Have you ever been to one of his barbecues? Just saying.
    Are you back to 100% fighting fit now David
    Feeling much better thanks. But no more roast lamb (or babies), much less alcohol, more exercise, weight loss and, probably, an operation to remove my gall bladder. I thought the whole upside of being a Tory was complete self indulgence. It certainly isn't the pleasure of trying to support this utterly inept government.
    Why is roast lamb bad for you? It is divine. We eat little else in Cumbria........
    Too fatty and upsets the gall bladder apparently. It was my favourite too. I tried it once since the new year and it was painful, if not nearly as bad as the first episode.
    Sympathies, David. I had to have my gallbladder removed years ago, due to an infection and well remember the pain prior to removal.

    I've been fine since it was taken out though, so I hope for a speedy resolution for you.
  • Is anyone surprised ?

    ' Crossrail 2 is set to cost over £40bn, the Mayor of London has revealed in a budget document published earlier this week.

    The £41.3bn estimate for the proposed north to south London line is higher than the Greater London Authority's widely cited £30bn budget, which is based on 2014 prices.

    But the real cost is set to be much higher as it estimates the actual construction cost of the project.

    In his final budget for 2019-2020, London mayor Sadiq Khan has put aside £10.4bn for the project between 2023 and 2028, followed by £18.4bn between 2029 and 2033 and £12.5bn from 2033 to 2038.
    '

    http://www.cityam.com/273889/crossrail-2-costs-surge-over-40bn

    Inevitably its not the first time cost projections have shown an increase:

    ' Estimated costs of the Crossrail 2 project have risen by nearly £7bn, according to new Transport for London (TfL) spending plans.

    The 30% increase, of £6.6bn, has been due to the inclusion of costs for new trains and surface works, figures show.

    It means the north-south rail scheme is now expected to cost £20bn for the shorter Metro route and £27.5bn for the longer regional option.
    '

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-30228899

    Would be better to just get cracking with the much cheaper Bakerloo Line extension instead.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,876

    DavidL said:

    Cyclefree said:

    DavidL said:

    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    kle4 said:

    One of the things I distrust about Corbyn and his allies is that they espouse discourse, he did so today at PMQs, but they also say things like they wouldn’t be friends with a Tory, as if they are innately evil.
    You trying to say Tories are not innately evil
    Well everyone knows the members are innately evil but some of their voters are ok malc!
    I am a member by the way !!!!
    You hide the evil well, kudos :)
    Have you ever been to one of his barbecues? Just saying.
    Are you back to 100% fighting fit now David
    Feeling much better thanks. But no more roast lamb (or babies), much less alcohol, more exercise, weight loss and, probably, an operation to remove my gall bladder. I thought the whole upside of being a Tory was complete self indulgence. It certainly isn't the pleasure of trying to support this utterly inept government.
    Why is roast lamb bad for you? It is divine. We eat little else in Cumbria........
    Too fatty and upsets the gall bladder apparently. It was my favourite too. I tried it once since the new year and it was painful, if not nearly as bad as the first episode.
    Sympathies, David. I had to have my gallbladder removed years ago, due to an infection and well remember the pain prior to removal.

    I've been fine since it was taken out though, so I hope for a speedy resolution for you.
    The pain first time around was unbelievable. Never felt anything like it. But that was 2 months ago now. I am really not sure about the op. How long did you take to get over it, if you don't mind me asking?
  • I suspect there wont be much sympathy:

    ' A senior lawyer has claimed that barristers are often paid less per hour than they would be working in a fast-food restaurant.

    Chris Henley, who chairs the Criminal Bar Association, said: "Too often fees for prosecuting produce hourly rates worse than wages at McDonald's," adding that this "sadly" was not hyperbole.
    '

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47372265
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    DavidL said:

    Cyclefree said:

    DavidL said:

    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    kle4 said:

    I know it's him, but gotta say I think he's called this one right.
    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1100709432596541440

    If your first instinct is to defend someone accused of anti-semitism, what does that say about you? If your response to one of your MPs bullied for being Jewish is not to speak to her at all, what does that say about you?

    Corbyn comes across as a deeply unpleasant and horrible person.
    He's an interesting person to contemplate as on the surface he does come across generally as personable, polite and genial. But even if you are someone who thinks he is great, for sake of argument, there is a hard edge to him at times. A little snap here, some willful blindness there, a failure to act there. It adds up.

    Being as charitable as I can be, I don't doubt Corbyn would not think of himself as instinctively defending someone accused of anti-semitism. But even if we assume that I do think he takes the normal political behaviour of instinctively defending a political ally to a severe extreme.
    One of the things I distrust about Corbyn and his allies is that they espouse discourse, he did so today at PMQs, but they also say things like they wouldn’t be friends with a Tory, as if they are innately evil.
    You trying to say Tories are not innately evil
    Well everyone knows the members are innately evil but some of their voters are ok malc!
    I am a member by the way !!!!
    You hide the evil well, kudos :)
    Have you ever been to one of his barbecues? Just saying.
    Are you back to 100% fighting fit now David
    Feeling much better thanks. But no more roast lamb (or babies), much less alcohol, more exercise, weight loss and, probably, an operation to remove my gall bladder. I thought the whole upside of being a Tory was complete self indulgence. It certainly isn't the pleasure of trying to support this utterly inept government.
    Why is roast lamb bad for you? It is divine. We eat little else in Cumbria........
    Too fatty and upsets the gall bladder apparently. It was my favourite too. I tried it once since the new year and it was painful, if not nearly as bad as the first episode.
    Poor you. Well I hope your health continues to get better.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,626
    Three Identical Strangers on Ch4 tomorrow - worth watching.

    Also, if anybody hasn't caught up with True Detective series 3 yet, you are in for a treat. Brilliant writing, exceptional cast.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,876
    Gayle is making that Buttler chap look a bit of a slow coach.
  • @DavidL

    Can you say that the Windies are going to win this match.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,366
    edited February 2019
    Mr Eagles

    "Take the 12/1 Corals are offering on Watford to beat Liverpool tonight."

    Are you going?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,599

    I’m sticking with my Christmas predictions for now.

    Interesting to see just how many of your 2019 predictions, and David Herdson's in response, are still 'in play'. I am slightly more with him than with you partly because, foolishly perhaps, it feels impossible that we can continue to finds ways of kicking the leaving EU can down the road for much longer. It is hard to see how public opinion could bear it, let alone Brenda from Bristol.

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,876

    @DavidL

    Can you say that the Windies are going to win this match.

    Oh if Gayle stays in for 40 overs that looks a real possibility (best I can do, England's total is awesome).
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    DavidL said:

    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    kle4 said:

    I know it's him, but gotta say I think he's called this one right.
    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1100709432596541440

    If your first instinct is to defend someone accused of anti-semitism, what does that say about you? If your response to one of your MPs bullied for being Jewish is not to speak to her at all, what does that say about you?

    Corbyn comes across as a deeply unpleasant and horrible person.
    He's an interesting person to contemplate as on the surface he does come across generally as personable, polite and genial. But even if you are someone who thinks he is great, for sake of argument, there is a hard edge to him at times. A little snap here, some willful blindness there, a failure to act there. It adds up.

    Being as charitable as I can be, I don't doubt Corbyn would not think of himself as instinctively defending someone accused of anti-semitism. But even if we assume that I do think he takes the normal political behaviour of instinctively defending a political ally to a severe extreme.
    One of the things I distrust about Corbyn and his allies is that they espouse discourse, he did so today at PMQs, but they also say things like they wouldn’t be friends with a Tory, as if they are innately evil.
    You trying to say Tories are not innately evil
    Well everyone knows the members are innately evil but some of their voters are ok malc!
    I am a member by the way !!!!
    You hide the evil well, kudos :)
    Have you ever been to one of his barbecues? Just saying.
    Are you back to 100% fighting fit now David
    Feeling much better thanks. But no more roast lamb (or babies), much less alcohol, more exercise, weight loss and, probably, an operation to remove my gall bladder. I thought the whole upside of being a Tory was complete self indulgence. It certainly isn't the pleasure of trying to support this utterly inept government.
    David I hadn't fully clocked the extent of your under the weatherness. I'm delighted things are getting back to normal. I recently worked out that it is better to wake up with a clear head than one filled with cotton wool and hence moved into the slow lane with the Sipsmiths, for example.

    Your lifestyle change will leave you feeling tons better I have no doubt.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,876
    DavidL said:

    @DavidL

    Can you say that the Windies are going to win this match.

    Oh if Gayle stays in for 40 overs that looks a real possibility (best I can do, England's total is awesome).
    Seriously, the Windies are 20 ahead of where England were now. Takes some of the sting out of the Buttler/Morgan show.
  • Is anyone surprised ?

    ' Crossrail 2 is set to cost over £40bn, the Mayor of London has revealed in a budget document published earlier this week.

    The £41.3bn estimate for the proposed north to south London line is higher than the Greater London Authority's widely cited £30bn budget, which is based on 2014 prices.

    But the real cost is set to be much higher as it estimates the actual construction cost of the project.

    In his final budget for 2019-2020, London mayor Sadiq Khan has put aside £10.4bn for the project between 2023 and 2028, followed by £18.4bn between 2029 and 2033 and £12.5bn from 2033 to 2038.
    '

    http://www.cityam.com/273889/crossrail-2-costs-surge-over-40bn

    Inevitably its not the first time cost projections have shown an increase:

    ' Estimated costs of the Crossrail 2 project have risen by nearly £7bn, according to new Transport for London (TfL) spending plans.

    The 30% increase, of £6.6bn, has been due to the inclusion of costs for new trains and surface works, figures show.

    It means the north-south rail scheme is now expected to cost £20bn for the shorter Metro route and £27.5bn for the longer regional option.
    '

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-30228899

    To think they cancelled the Northern electrification because it was over budget by a lot less than that.
    Given that Grayling is MP for Epsom I'd say CrossRail 2 has nothing to worry about.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871
    Labour amendment lost 240 v 323
  • jayfdeejayfdee Posts: 618
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Cyclefree said:

    DavidL said:

    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    kle4 said:

    One of the things I distrust about Corbyn and his allies is that they espouse discourse, he did so today at PMQs, but they also say things like they wouldn’t be friends with a Tory, as if they are innately evil.
    You trying to say Tories are not innately evil
    Well everyone knows the members are innately evil but some of their voters are ok malc!
    I am a member by the way !!!!
    You hide the evil well, kudos :)
    Have you ever been to one of his barbecues? Just saying.
    Are you back to 100% fighting fit now David
    Feeling much better thanks. But no more roast lamb (or babies), much less alcohol, more exercise, weight loss and, probably, an operation to remove my gall bladder. I thought the whole upside of being a Tory was complete self indulgence. It certainly isn't the pleasure of trying to support this utterly inept government.
    Why is roast lamb bad for you? It is divine. We eat little else in Cumbria........
    Too fatty and upsets the gall bladder apparently. It was my favourite too. I tried it once since the new year and it was painful, if not nearly as bad as the first episode.
    Sympathies, David. I had to have my gallbladder removed years ago, due to an infection and well remember the pain prior to removal.

    I've been fine since it was taken out though, so I hope for a speedy resolution for you.
    The pain first time around was unbelievable. Never felt anything like it. But that was 2 months ago now. I am really not sure about the op. How long did you take to get over it, if you don't mind me asking?
    I concur, I had a blocked bile duct, and the pain was unbearable,(week in hospital) later had my Gall Bladder removed, and that turned from "Key hole" to ", "cut me in half" and another week in hospital.
    The really worrying thing for me was I had just returned from a big trek in South America, with an ex GP friend, who said, "If that had happened out there, you would have died".
    We could not contact the outside world, and were mainly above helicopter rescue altitude.
    I have nothing but praise for the NHS
  • CD13 said:

    Mr Eagles

    "Take the 12/1 Corals are offering on Watford to beat Liverpool tonight."

    Are you going?

    No.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,388
    kle4 said:

    An interesting take, and I half agree with it, in that the mere fact of a level of chaos and intense angst around difficult, divisive questions has been over egged as being evidence in itself of failure.

    Just 9% of British people think politics isn't broken - and I'm one of them

    When I reported this finding, the response was nearly unanimous. “Who are these 9 per cent?” Well, I’m one of them. I think British politics is working well. We are a nation struggling with a huge question about what our relationship should be with continental Europe, and we are engaged in a long, democratic and open discussion about it.

    I don’t know how it will be resolved, but whatever the outcome, it will be the least worst in the collective judgement of our elected representatives assembled in the House of Commons. That is British politics working as it should.


    https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/uk-politics-brexit-party-system-poll-independent-grouo-labour-party-conservative-a8799746.html

    Politics is broken when you see gangs of young men carrying AK47's, not when people are still engaging with democracy.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,876
    TOPPING said:

    DavidL said:

    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    kle4 said:

    I know it's him, but gotta say I think he's called this one right.
    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1100709432596541440

    If your first instinct is to defend someone accused of anti-semitism, what does that say about you? If your response to one of your MPs bullied for being Jewish is not to speak to her at all, what does that say about you?

    Corbyn comes across as a deeply unpleasant and horrible person.
    He's an interesting person to contemplate as on the surface he does come across generally as personable, polite and genial. But even if you are someone who thinks he is great, for sake of argument, there is a hard edge to him at times. A little snap here, some willful blindness there, a failure to act there. It adds up.

    Being as charitable as I can be, I don't doubt Corbyn would not think of himself as instinctively defending someone accused of anti-semitism. But even if we assume that I do think he takes the normal political behaviour of instinctively defending a political ally to a severe extreme.
    One of the things I distrust about Corbyn and his allies is that they espouse discourse, he did so today at PMQs, but they also say things like they wouldn’t be friends with a Tory, as if they are innately evil.
    You trying to say Tories are not innately evil
    Well everyone knows the members are innately evil but some of their voters are ok malc!
    I am a member by the way !!!!
    You hide the evil well, kudos :)
    Have you ever been to one of his barbecues? Just saying.
    Are you back to 100% fighting fit now David
    Feeling much better thanks. But no more roast lamb (or babies), much less alcohol, more exercise, weight loss and, probably, an operation to remove my gall bladder. I thought the whole upside of being a Tory was complete self indulgence. It certainly isn't the pleasure of trying to support this utterly inept government.
    David I hadn't fully clocked the extent of your under the weatherness. I'm delighted things are getting back to normal. I recently worked out that it is better to wake up with a clear head than one filled with cotton wool and hence moved into the slow lane with the Sipsmiths, for example.

    Your lifestyle change will leave you feeling tons better I have no doubt.
    I miss the wine and the lamb. Otherwise I feel better than I have for a few years.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,876
    jayfdee said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Cyclefree said:

    DavidL said:

    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    kle4 said:

    One of the things I distrust about Corbyn and his allies is that they espouse discourse, he did so today at PMQs, but they also say things like they wouldn’t be friends with a Tory, as if they are innately evil.
    You trying to say Tories are not innately evil
    Well everyone knows the members are innately evil but some of their voters are ok malc!
    I am a member by the way !!!!
    You hide the evil well, kudos :)
    Have you ever been to one of his barbecues? Just saying.
    Are you back to 100% fighting fit now David
    Feeling much better thanks. But no more roast lamb (or babies), much less alcohol, more exercise, weight loss and, probably, an operation to remove my gall bladder. I thought the whole upside of being a Tory was complete self indulgence. It certainly isn't the pleasure of trying to support this utterly inept government.
    Why is roast lamb bad for you? It is divine. We eat little else in Cumbria........
    Too fatty and upsets the gall bladder apparently. It was my favourite too. I tried it once since the new year and it was painful, if not nearly as bad as the first episode.
    Sympathies, David. I had to have my gallbladder removed years ago, due to an infection and well remember the pain prior to removal.

    I've been fine since it was taken out though, so I hope for a speedy resolution for you.
    The pain first time around was unbelievable. Never felt anything like it. But that was 2 months ago now. I am really not sure about the op. How long did you take to get over it, if you don't mind me asking?
    I concur, I had a blocked bile duct, and the pain was unbearable,(week in hospital) later had my Gall Bladder removed, and that turned from "Key hole" to ", "cut me in half" and another week in hospital.
    The really worrying thing for me was I had just returned from a big trek in South America, with an ex GP friend, who said, "If that had happened out there, you would have died".
    We could not contact the outside world, and were mainly above helicopter rescue altitude.
    I have nothing but praise for the NHS
    Well that makes me feel much better!
  • Is anyone surprised ?

    ' Crossrail 2 is set to cost over £40bn, the Mayor of London has revealed in a budget document published earlier this week.

    The £41.3bn estimate for the proposed north to south London line is higher than the Greater London Authority's widely cited £30bn budget, which is based on 2014 prices.

    But the real cost is set to be much higher as it estimates the actual construction cost of the project.

    In his final budget for 2019-2020, London mayor Sadiq Khan has put aside £10.4bn for the project between 2023 and 2028, followed by £18.4bn between 2029 and 2033 and £12.5bn from 2033 to 2038.
    '

    http://www.cityam.com/273889/crossrail-2-costs-surge-over-40bn

    Inevitably its not the first time cost projections have shown an increase:

    ' Estimated costs of the Crossrail 2 project have risen by nearly £7bn, according to new Transport for London (TfL) spending plans.

    The 30% increase, of £6.6bn, has been due to the inclusion of costs for new trains and surface works, figures show.

    It means the north-south rail scheme is now expected to cost £20bn for the shorter Metro route and £27.5bn for the longer regional option.
    '

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-30228899

    To think they cancelled the Northern electrification because it was over budget by a lot less than that.
    Given that Grayling is MP for Epsom I'd say CrossRail 2 has nothing to worry about.
    In the event of No Deal a lot of the Hard Brexiteers assumptions on everything being fine are based on Chris Grayling ensuring things run smoothly.

    My prediction we'll have sued for peace by the end of April and signed up to the Euro.
  • To win the WI will need to score more than the 418 which is the highest final innings to win a test match.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,876

    Is anyone surprised ?

    ' Crossrail 2 is set to cost over £40bn, the Mayor of London has revealed in a budget document published earlier this week.

    The £41.3bn estimate for the proposed north to south London line is higher than the Greater London Authority's widely cited £30bn budget, which is based on 2014 prices.

    But the real cost is set to be much higher as it estimates the actual construction cost of the project.

    In his final budget for 2019-2020, London mayor Sadiq Khan has put aside £10.4bn for the project between 2023 and 2028, followed by £18.4bn between 2029 and 2033 and £12.5bn from 2033 to 2038.
    '

    http://www.cityam.com/273889/crossrail-2-costs-surge-over-40bn

    Inevitably its not the first time cost projections have shown an increase:

    ' Estimated costs of the Crossrail 2 project have risen by nearly £7bn, according to new Transport for London (TfL) spending plans.

    The 30% increase, of £6.6bn, has been due to the inclusion of costs for new trains and surface works, figures show.

    It means the north-south rail scheme is now expected to cost £20bn for the shorter Metro route and £27.5bn for the longer regional option.
    '

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-30228899

    To think they cancelled the Northern electrification because it was over budget by a lot less than that.
    Given that Grayling is MP for Epsom I'd say CrossRail 2 has nothing to worry about.
    In the event of No Deal a lot of the Hard Brexiteers assumptions on everything being fine are based on Chris Grayling ensuring things run smoothly.

    My prediction we'll have sued for peace by the end of April and signed up to the Euro.
    As long as we don't rely on him to deliver the surrender note.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Also, if anybody hasn't caught up with True Detective series 3 yet, you are in for a treat. Brilliant writing, exceptional cast.

    disappointing ending
  • Scott_P said:
    What in the name of holy chuffing buggery were Sidney thinking when they let him in?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,388
    Cyclefree said:

    DavidL said:

    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    kle4 said:

    I know it's him, but gotta say I think he's called this one right.
    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1100709432596541440

    If your first instinct is to defend someone accused of anti-semitism, what does that say about you? If your response to one of your MPs bullied for being Jewish is not to speak to her at all, what does that say about you?

    Corbyn comes across as a deeply unpleasant and horrible person.
    He's an interesting person to contemplate as on the surface he does come across generally as personable, polite and genial. But even if you are someone who thinks he is great, for sake of argument, there is a hard edge to him at times. A little snap here, some willful blindness there, a failure to act there. It adds up.

    Being as charitable as I can be, I don't doubt Corbyn would not think of himself as instinctively defending someone accused of anti-semitism. But even if we assume that I do think he takes the normal political behaviour of instinctively defending a political ally to a severe extreme.
    One of the things I distrust about Corbyn and his allies is that they espouse discourse, he did so today at PMQs, but they also say things like they wouldn’t be friends with a Tory, as if they are innately evil.
    You trying to say Tories are not innately evil
    Well everyone knows the members are innately evil but some of their voters are ok malc!
    I am a member by the way !!!!
    You hide the evil well, kudos :)
    Have you ever been to one of his barbecues? Just saying.
    Are you back to 100% fighting fit now David
    Feeling much better thanks. But no more roast lamb (or babies), much less alcohol, more exercise, weight loss and, probably, an operation to remove my gall bladder. I thought the whole upside of being a Tory was complete self indulgence. It certainly isn't the pleasure of trying to support this utterly inept government.
    Why is roast lamb bad for you? It is divine. We eat little else in Cumbria........
    The number and variety of sheep up there is amazing. I was particularly struck by the Hebrideans, which look demonic.
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979
    IanB2 said:

    Labour amendment lost 240 v 323

    It makes a big difference the absence of 20 odd Labour MPs who are now various shades of independents. It would have been a far closer result before Labour splintered. I wonder if the newly released Peterborough MP is voting in the commons or is she under curfew?!
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,876
    Scott_P said:
    At least he is consistent (ly useless).
  • SeanTSeanT Posts: 549
    edited February 2019
    A small break from Brexit into geneaology?

    Here's a story.

    My sister has been very professionally researching our family tree. My Dad did this years before in a less committed way, and we discovered - as we expected - many centuries of Cornish tinners, farmers, smugglers, going back to the 13th century. plus a man who kept more frogs than anyone else in Cornwall ("froggy Skewes").

    So I have always felt authentically Cornish, but not very posh.

    My sister however has taken things further. She has gone back to my great great great great grandmother, Frances Moyle (nee Tremayne) - from whom I get my nom de plume.

    It turns out this strand of the family has, well, quite the background.

    The Tremaynes date back, provably and directly to the 12th century, and a Knight Templar, Peter de Tremaen, a warrior of Norman blood. Even more fascinating, Peter's son (my great great great... etc etc grandfather) married a Peverell, and they go back to the Norman Conquest, when my great great great... blah blah.. grandfather. Ranulph Peverell, was born of William the Conqueror and his Saxon mistress Maud (reputedly the granddaughter of Aethelred the Unready, and thus herself a descendant of Alfred the Great, and ultimately Odin, if Anglo Saxon legends are to be believed)..


    I am thus a direct descendant of William the Conqueror. And I am therefore descended, directly, through him, from King Rollo of Normandy and Ragnar Lothbrok (the guys in VIKINGS, my favourite drama series of the moment - which is now suddenly a home movie), moreover via Rollo and Ragnar I am apparently descended from Halfdan the Old, Fortjof the Ancient Giant, and Snaer and Kari the Myth Kings of Kvenland, who are also regarded as the original Norse Gods of Snow and Ice.

    So I'm *quite* posh after all.

    I'm certainly glad I took my rightful name Tremayne.


  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,780

    Is anyone surprised ?

    ' Crossrail 2 is set to cost over £40bn, the Mayor of London has revealed in a budget document published earlier this week.

    The £41.3bn estimate for the proposed north to south London line is higher than the Greater London Authority's widely cited £30bn budget, which is based on 2014 prices.

    But the real cost is set to be much higher as it estimates the actual construction cost of the project.

    In his final budget for 2019-2020, London mayor Sadiq Khan has put aside £10.4bn for the project between 2023 and 2028, followed by £18.4bn between 2029 and 2033 and £12.5bn from 2033 to 2038.
    '

    http://www.cityam.com/273889/crossrail-2-costs-surge-over-40bn

    Inevitably its not the first time cost projections have shown an increase:

    ' Estimated costs of the Crossrail 2 project have risen by nearly £7bn, according to new Transport for London (TfL) spending plans.

    The 30% increase, of £6.6bn, has been due to the inclusion of costs for new trains and surface works, figures show.

    It means the north-south rail scheme is now expected to cost £20bn for the shorter Metro route and £27.5bn for the longer regional option.
    '

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-30228899

    Would be better to just get cracking with the much cheaper Bakerloo Line extension instead.
    Bakerloo line is at its capacity. No point adding more passengers. A Bakerloo line mk2 (bigger, deeper, straighter tunnels) though - that'd be great!

  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,780
    SeanT said:

    A small break from Brexit into geneaology?

    Here's a story.

    My sister has been very professionally researching our family tree. My Dad did this years before in a less committed way, and we discovered - as we expected - many centuries of Cornish tinners, farmers, smugglers, going back to the 13th century. plus a man who kept more frogs than anyone else in Cornwall ("froggy Skewes").

    So I have always felt authentically Cornish, but not very posh.

    My sister however has taken things further. She has gone back to my great great great great grandmother, Frances Moyle (nee Tremayne) - from whom I get my nom de plume.

    It turns out this strand of the family has, well, quite the background.

    The Tremaynes date back, provably and directly to the 12th century, and a Knight Templar, Peter de Tremaen, a warrior of Norman blood. Even more fascinating, Peter's son (my great great great... etc etc grandfather) married a Peverell, and they go back to the Norman Conquest, when my great great great... blah blah.. grandfather. Ranulph Peverell, was born of William the Conqueror and his Saxon mistress Maud (reputedly the granddaughter of Aethelred the Unready, and thus herself a descendant of Alfred the Great, and ultimately Odin, if Anglo Saxon legends are to be believed)..


    I am thus a direct descendant of William the Conqueror. And I am therefore descended, directly, through him, from King Rollo of Normandy and Ragnar Lothbrok (the guys in VIKINGS, my favourite drama series of the moment - which is now suddenly a home movie), moreover via Rollo and Ragnar I am apparently descended from Halfdan the Old, Fortjof the Ancient Giant, and Snaer and Kari the Myth Kings of Kvenland, who are also regarded as the original Norse Gods of Snow and Ice.

    So I'm *quite* posh after all.

    I'm certainly glad I took my rightful name Tremayne.


    bloody foreigner :)
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979
    Scott_P said:
    Did Corbyn have a hooded jacket on?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871
    edited February 2019
    SNP (no to no deal) amendment lost 288 v 324

    So it did have significant Labour support. Only one more opponent than Labour's amendment but 48 more in favour.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,254
    My prediction then:

    In March neither the Deal nor No Deal will pass, the vote is for an extension. A short extension is granted. The objective of the extension is for the truth (that we must ratify the WA if we wish to leave the EU anytime soon) to dawn. 2 things are then possible:

    (1) The truth does dawn. In which case the Deal passes and we leave on 30 June. 75% chance,

    (2) It doesn't. 25% chance.

    In which (2) case, because there is not the stomach for Revoke (either with or without the fig leaf of another Referendum), and no Tory PM can pivot to Labour policy on THE issue of our time, there will be - there has to be - a GENERAL ELECTION.

    If there is, the Cons will run on the Deal and a quick Brexit. Labour will run on a further (longish) extension to negotiate their BINO together with a promise to put that to the ignorami in a Referendum.

    Labour will win that election (if it comes to pass) and will make good on their promise.

    Meaning a Referendum in 2020 which will result in Remain. We stay.

    And Jeremy gets the trains and the water and the inequality sorted.

    Win/Win.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871
    Spelman abandoned
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871
    Costa no opposition
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871
    edited February 2019
    Cooper to division, some surprise at the opposition. Presumably the latest ERG masterstroke, forcing a division where they will be outvoted by everyone else.

    Lol @ no tellers, Bone and Chope.
  • DavidL said:



    To think they cancelled the Northern electrification because it was over budget by a lot less than that.

    Given that Grayling is MP for Epsom I'd say CrossRail 2 has nothing to worry about.
    In the event of No Deal a lot of the Hard Brexiteers assumptions on everything being fine are based on Chris Grayling ensuring things run smoothly.

    My prediction we'll have sued for peace by the end of April and signed up to the Euro.
    As long as we don't rely on him to deliver the surrender note.
    Grayling has been in the Shadow Cabinet and Cabinet continuously since 2005.

    How is it that we all can see him as crap yet the Conservative party thinks he's top level stuff ?

    Am i the only one to remember this:

    ' General Sir Richard Dannatt, the former head of the army who repeatedly clashed with ministers over troop levels and equipment in Afghanistan, is to join the Conservatives as a military adviser.

    David Cameron will announce in his closing speech to the Tory conference tomorrow that Dannatt will become a working peer, paving the way for him to serve as a defence minister after the election.

    However, the appointment, which is designed to underline the Tories' credentials on defence, nearly went awry today when a member of the shadow cabinet described the move as a "gimmick".

    In the biggest gaffe of this week's conference in Manchester, Chris Grayling, the shadow home secretary, dismissed the appointment after assuming wrongly that Dannatt had been made a minister by Gordon Brown. Grayling said in a live BBC television interview: "I hope that this isn't a political gimmick. We've seen too many appointments in this government of external people where it's all been about Gordon Brown's PR."
    '

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2009/oct/07/richard-dannatt-conservative-conference-military
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,705
    SeanT said:

    A small break from Brexit into geneaology?

    Here's a story.

    My sister has been very professionally researching our family tree. My Dad did this years before in a less committed way, and we discovered - as we expected - many centuries of Cornish tinners, farmers, smugglers, going back to the 13th century. plus a man who kept more frogs than anyone else in Cornwall ("froggy Skewes").

    So I have always felt authentically Cornish, but not very posh.

    My sister however has taken things further. She has gone back to my great great great great grandmother, Frances Moyle (nee Tremayne) - from whom I get my nom de plume.

    It turns out this strand of the family has, well, quite the background.

    The Tremaynes date back, provably and directly to the 12th century, and a Knight Templar, Peter de Tremaen, a warrior of Norman blood. Even more fascinating, Peter's son (my great great great... etc etc grandfather) married a Peverell, and they go back to the Norman Conquest, when my great great great... blah blah.. grandfather. Ranulph Peverell, was born of William the Conqueror and his Saxon mistress Maud (reputedly the granddaughter of Aethelred the Unready, and thus herself a descendant of Alfred the Great, and ultimately Odin, if Anglo Saxon legends are to be believed)..


    I am thus a direct descendant of William the Conqueror. And I am therefore descended, directly, through him, from King Rollo of Normandy and Ragnar Lothbrok (the guys in VIKINGS, my favourite drama series of the moment - which is now suddenly a home movie), moreover via Rollo and Ragnar I am apparently descended from Halfdan the Old, Fortjof the Ancient Giant, and Snaer and Kari the Myth Kings of Kvenland, who are also regarded as the original Norse Gods of Snow and Ice.

    So I'm *quite* posh after all.

    I'm certainly glad I took my rightful name Tremayne.


    Nice story Sean, well done to your sister for her research; great to be able to trace back to William the Conqueror. How many generations between you and him?

    I have often wondered what proportion of the country has descent from him. On the on hand, given the number of generations involved it could be a high percentage, on the other hand the aristos did tend to breed only amongst themselves. Has anyone ever researched this?
  • notme2notme2 Posts: 1,006
    jayfdee said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Cyclefree said:

    DavidL said:

    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    kle4 said:

    One of the things I distrust about Corbyn and his allies is that they espouse discourse, he did so today at PMQs, but they also say things like they wouldn’t be friends with a Tory, as if they are innately evil.
    You trying to say Tories are not innately evil
    Well everyone knows the members are innately evil but some of their voters are ok malc!
    I am a member by the way !!!!
    You hide the evil well, kudos :)
    Have you ever been to one of his barbecues? Just saying.
    Are you back to 100% fighting fit now David
    Feeling much better thanks. But no more roast lamb (or babies), much less n operation to remove my gall bladder. I.
    Why is roast lamb bad for you? It is divine. We eat little else in Cumbria........
    Too fatty and upsets the gall bladder apparently. It was my favourite too. I tried it once since the new year and it was painful, if not nearly as bad as the first episode.
    Sympathiesllbladder removed years ago, due to an infection and well remember the pain prior to removal.

    I've been fine since it was taken out though, so I hope for a speedy resolution for you.
    The pain first if you don't mind me asking?
    I concur, I had a blocked bile duct, and the pain was unbearable,(week in hospital) later had my Gall thing NHS
    I got pancreatitis from a blocked bile duct caused by a gallstone. Had to recover before they whipped the gallbladder out..

    Went in on day before Christmas Eve, let me out the next day and I was at my sisters for Christmas dinner the day after that.

    It was sore, and getting over the surgery properly takes a few weeks, but you can freely potter around the house etc without a problem. I read about all kinds of horror from having gallbladder removed. For me none came true. I live absolutely fine now. If you massively overdo it on the high fat food it can make you feel very lethargic. Think like you’ve eaten three Big Macs and large milk shake. But other than that, life is normal..

    Oh.. it did hurt when I laughed for about two years afterwards... but I’m a miserable sod, so barely noticed.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    SeanT said:

    A small break from Brexit into geneaology?

    Here's a story.

    My sister has been very professionally researching our family tree. My Dad did this years before in a less committed way, and we discovered - as we expected - many centuries of Cornish tinners, farmers, smugglers, going back to the 13th century. plus a man who kept more frogs than anyone else in Cornwall ("froggy Skewes").

    So I have always felt authentically Cornish, but not very posh.

    My sister however has taken things further. She has gone back to my great great great great grandmother, Frances Moyle (nee Tremayne) - from whom I get my nom de plume.

    It turns out this strand of the family has, well, quite the background.

    The Tremaynes date back, provably and directly to the 12th century, and a Knight Templar, Peter de Tremaen, a warrior of Norman blood. Even more fascinating, Peter's son (my great great great... etc etc grandfather) married a Peverell, and they go back to the Norman Conquest, when my great great great... blah blah.. grandfather. Ranulph Peverell, was born of William the Conqueror and his Saxon mistress Maud (reputedly the granddaughter of Aethelred the Unready, and thus herself a descendant of Alfred the Great, and ultimately Odin, if Anglo Saxon legends are to be believed)..


    I am thus a direct descendant of William the Conqueror. And I am therefore descended, directly, through him, from King Rollo of Normandy and Ragnar Lothbrok (the guys in VIKINGS, my favourite drama series of the moment - which is now suddenly a home movie), moreover via Rollo and Ragnar I am apparently descended from Halfdan the Old, Fortjof the Ancient Giant, and Snaer and Kari the Myth Kings of Kvenland, who are also regarded as the original Norse Gods of Snow and Ice.

    So I'm *quite* posh after all.

    I'm certainly glad I took my rightful name Tremayne.


    Still a twat though.

    Just kidding, apologies my liege.
  • AramintaMoonbeamQCAramintaMoonbeamQC Posts: 3,855
    edited February 2019
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Cyclefree said:

    DavidL said:

    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    kle4 said:

    One of the things I distrust about Corbyn and his allies is that they espouse discourse, he did so today at PMQs, but they also say things like they wouldn’t be friends with a Tory, as if they are innately evil.
    You trying to say Tories are not innately evil
    Well everyone knows the members are innately evil but some of their voters are ok malc!
    I am a member by the way !!!!
    You hide the evil well, kudos :)
    Have you ever been to one of his barbecues? Just saying.
    Are you back to 100% fighting fit now David
    Feeling much better thanks. But no more roast lamb (or babies), much less alcohol, more exercise, weight loss and, probably, an operation to remove my gall bladder. I thought the whole upside of being a Tory was complete self indulgence. It certainly isn't the pleasure of trying to support this utterly inept government.
    Why is roast lamb bad for you? It is divine. We eat little else in Cumbria........
    Too fatty and upsets the gall bladder apparently. It was my favourite too. I tried it once since the new year and it was painful, if not nearly as bad as the first episode.
    Sympathies, David. I had to have my gallbladder removed years ago, due to an infection and well remember the pain prior to removal.

    I've been fine since it was taken out though, so I hope for a speedy resolution for you.
    The pain first time around was unbelievable. Never felt anything like it. But that was 2 months ago now. I am really not sure about the op. How long did you take to get over it, if you don't mind me asking?
    I had keyhole surgery about 15 years ago, but the infection had caused the gall bladder to 'sink', according to the consultant, so he had to 'rummage' around a bit which left me fairly sore.

    They let me out of the hospital with morphine after about 3 days, and I retreated to my parents' and rested for a couple of weeks. I had to take anti-spasmodic drugs for a little while afterwards but no real problems since. I can eat roast lamb again, in moderation!

    Good luck, hope all goes well. You'll feel much better once it is done, honestly.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    kinabalu said:

    My prediction then:

    In March neither the Deal nor No Deal will pass, the vote is for an extension. A short extension is granted. The objective of the extension is for the truth (that we must ratify the WA if we wish to leave the EU anytime soon) to dawn. 2 things are then possible:

    (1) The truth does dawn. In which case the Deal passes and we leave on 30 June. 75% chance,

    (2) It doesn't. 25% chance.

    In which (2) case, because there is not the stomach for Revoke (either with or without the fig leaf of another Referendum), and no Tory PM can pivot to Labour policy on THE issue of our time, there will be - there has to be - a GENERAL ELECTION.

    If there is, the Cons will run on the Deal and a quick Brexit. Labour will run on a further (longish) extension to negotiate their BINO together with a promise to put that to the ignorami in a Referendum.

    Labour will win that election (if it comes to pass) and will make good on their promise.

    Meaning a Referendum in 2020 which will result in Remain. We stay.

    And Jeremy gets the trains and the water and the inequality sorted.

    Win/Win.

    So you're basically saying you have no idea what's going to happen?
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,366
    Mr Eagles,

    Liverpool will win 2 - 0.
  • SeanTSeanT Posts: 549
    edited February 2019
    TOPPING said:

    SeanT said:

    A small break from Brexit into geneaology?

    Here's a story.

    My sister has been very professionally researching our family tree. My Dad did this years before in a less committed way, and we discovered - as we expected - many centuries of Cornish tinners, farmers, smugglers, going back to the 13th century. plus a man who kept more frogs than anyone else in Cornwall ("froggy Skewes").

    So I have always felt authentically Cornish, but not very posh.

    My sister however has taken things further. She has gone back to my great great great great grandmother, Frances Moyle (nee Tremayne) - from whom I get my nom de plume.

    It turns out this strand of the family has, well, quite the background.

    The Tremaynes date back, provably and directly to the 12th century, and a Knight Templar, Peter de Tremaen, a warrior of Norman blood. Even more fascinating, Peter's son (my great great great... etc etc grandfather) married a Peverell, and they go back to the Norman Conquest, when my great great great... blah blah.. grandfather. Ranulph Peverell, was born of William the Conqueror and his Saxon mistress Maud (reputedly the granddaughter of Aethelred the Unready, and thus herself a descendant of Alfred the Great, and ultimately Odin, if Anglo Saxon legends are to be believed)..


    I am thus a direct descendant of William the Conqueror. And I am therefore descended, directly, through him, from King Rollo of Normandy and Ragnar Lothbrok (the guys in VIKINGS, my favourite drama series of the moment - which is now suddenly a home movie), moreover via Rollo and Ragnar I am apparently descended from Halfdan the Old, Fortjof the Ancient Giant, and Snaer and Kari the Myth Kings of Kvenland, who are also regarded as the original Norse Gods of Snow and Ice.

    So I'm *quite* posh after all.

    I'm certainly glad I took my rightful name Tremayne.


    Still a twat though.

    Just kidding, apologies my liege.
    I, the descendant of Snaer Frostaston, Ruler of the Kvens, and Lord of Snow and Ice, hereby condemn you to a light shower of sleet. You have been warned.

    https://www.geni.com/people/Myth-King-of-Kvenland-Snær-Frostason/5622076289410089854
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871
    SeanT said:

    A small break from Brexit into geneaology?

    Here's a story.

    My sister has been very professionally researching our family tree. My Dad did this years before in a less committed way, and we discovered - as we expected - many centuries of Cornish tinners, farmers, smugglers, going back to the 13th century. plus a man who kept more frogs than anyone else in Cornwall ("froggy Skewes").

    So I have always felt authentically Cornish, but not very posh.

    My sister however has taken things further. She has gone back to my great great great great grandmother, Frances Moyle (nee Tremayne) - from whom I get my nom de plume.

    It turns out this strand of the family has, well, quite the background.

    The Tremaynes date back, provably and directly to the 12th century, and a Knight Templar, Peter de Tremaen, a warrior of Norman blood. Even more fascinating, Peter's son (my great great great... etc etc grandfather) married a Peverell, and they go back to the Norman Conquest, when my great great great... blah blah.. grandfather. Ranulph Peverell, was born of William the Conqueror and his Saxon mistress Maud (reputedly the granddaughter of Aethelred the Unready, and thus herself a descendant of Alfred the Great, and ultimately Odin, if Anglo Saxon legends are to be believed)..


    I am thus a direct descendant of William the Conqueror. And I am therefore descended, directly, through him, from King Rollo of Normandy and Ragnar Lothbrok (the guys in VIKINGS, my favourite drama series of the moment - which is now suddenly a home movie), moreover via Rollo and Ragnar I am apparently descended from Halfdan the Old, Fortjof the Ancient Giant, and Snaer and Kari the Myth Kings of Kvenland, who are also regarded as the original Norse Gods of Snow and Ice.

    So I'm *quite* posh after all.

    I'm certainly glad I took my rightful name Tremayne.


    Ragnar is legendary and historically dubious.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414
    SeanT said:

    A small break from Brexit into geneaology?

    Here's a story.

    My sister has been very professionally researching our family tree. My Dad did this years before in a less committed way, and we discovered - as we expected - many centuries of Cornish tinners, farmers, smugglers, going back to the 13th century. plus a man who kept more frogs than anyone else in Cornwall ("froggy Skewes").

    So I have always felt authentically Cornish, but not very posh.

    My sister however has taken things further. She has gone back to my great great great great grandmother, Frances Moyle (nee Tremayne) - from whom I get my nom de plume.

    It turns out this strand of the family has, well, quite the background.

    The Tremaynes date back, provably and directly to the 12th century, and a Knight Templar, Peter de Tremaen, a warrior of Norman blood. Even more fascinating, Peter's son (my great great great... etc etc grandfather) married a Peverell, and they go back to the Norman Conquest, when my great great great... blah blah.. grandfather. Ranulph Peverell, was born of William the Conqueror and his Saxon mistress Maud (reputedly the granddaughter of Aethelred the Unready, and thus herself a descendant of Alfred the Great, and ultimately Odin, if Anglo Saxon legends are to be believed)..


    I am thus a direct descendant of William the Conqueror. And I am therefore descended, directly, through him, from King Rollo of Normandy and Ragnar Lothbrok (the guys in VIKINGS, my favourite drama series of the moment - which is now suddenly a home movie), moreover via Rollo and Ragnar I am apparently descended from Halfdan the Old, Fortjof the Ancient Giant, and Snaer and Kari the Myth Kings of Kvenland, who are also regarded as the original Norse Gods of Snow and Ice.

    So I'm *quite* posh after all.

    I'm certainly glad I took my rightful name Tremayne.


    You are also, therefore, related to Danny Dyer.
    Leave it aaaahhhht.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,705
    TOPPING said:

    SeanT said:

    A small break from Brexit into geneaology?

    Here's a story.

    My sister has been very professionally researching our family tree. My Dad did this years before in a less committed way, and we discovered - as we expected - many centuries of Cornish tinners, farmers, smugglers, going back to the 13th century. plus a man who kept more frogs than anyone else in Cornwall ("froggy Skewes").

    So I have always felt authentically Cornish, but not very posh.

    My sister however has taken things further. She has gone back to my great great great great grandmother, Frances Moyle (nee Tremayne) - from whom I get my nom de plume.

    It turns out this strand of the family has, well, quite the background.

    The Tremaynes date back, provably and directly to the 12th century, and a Knight Templar, Peter de Tremaen, a warrior of Norman blood. Even more fascinating, Peter's son (my great great great... etc etc grandfather) married a Peverell, and they go back to the Norman Conquest, when my great great great... blah blah.. grandfather. Ranulph Peverell, was born of William the Conqueror and his Saxon mistress Maud (reputedly the granddaughter of Aethelred the Unready, and thus herself a descendant of Alfred the Great, and ultimately Odin, if Anglo Saxon legends are to be believed)..


    I am thus a direct descendant of William the Conqueror. And I am therefore descended, directly, through him, from King Rollo of Normandy and Ragnar Lothbrok (the guys in VIKINGS, my favourite drama series of the moment - which is now suddenly a home movie), moreover via Rollo and Ragnar I am apparently descended from Halfdan the Old, Fortjof the Ancient Giant, and Snaer and Kari the Myth Kings of Kvenland, who are also regarded as the original Norse Gods of Snow and Ice.

    So I'm *quite* posh after all.

    I'm certainly glad I took my rightful name Tremayne.


    Still a twat though.

    Just kidding, apologies my liege.
    With all that inbred aristo blood how could he be anything else?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871

    SeanT said:

    A small break from Brexit into geneaology?

    Here's a story.

    My sister has been very professionally researching our family tree. My Dad did this years before in a less committed way, and we discovered - as we expected - many centuries of Cornish tinners, farmers, smugglers, going back to the 13th century. plus a man who kept more frogs than anyone else in Cornwall ("froggy Skewes").

    So I have always felt authentically Cornish, but not very posh.

    My sister however has taken things further. She has gone back to my great great great great grandmother, Frances Moyle (nee Tremayne) - from whom I get my nom de plume.

    It turns out this strand of the family has, well, quite the background.

    The Tremaynes date back, provably and directly to the 12th century, and a Knight Templar, Peter de Tremaen, a warrior of Norman blood. Even more fascinating, Peter's son (my great great great... etc etc grandfather) married a Peverell, and they go back to the Norman Conquest, when my great great great... blah blah.. grandfather. Ranulph Peverell, was born of William the Conqueror and his Saxon mistress Maud (reputedly the granddaughter of Aethelred the Unready, and thus herself a descendant of Alfred the Great, and ultimately Odin, if Anglo Saxon legends are to be believed)..


    I am thus a direct descendant of William the Conqueror. And I am therefore descended, directly, through him, from King Rollo of Normandy and Ragnar Lothbrok (the guys in VIKINGS, my favourite drama series of the moment - which is now suddenly a home movie), moreover via Rollo and Ragnar I am apparently descended from Halfdan the Old, Fortjof the Ancient Giant, and Snaer and Kari the Myth Kings of Kvenland, who are also regarded as the original Norse Gods of Snow and Ice.

    So I'm *quite* posh after all.

    I'm certainly glad I took my rightful name Tremayne.


    Nice story Sean, well done to your sister for her research; great to be able to trace back to William the Conqueror. How many generations between you and him?

    I have often wondered what proportion of the country has descent from him. On the on hand, given the number of generations involved it could be a high percentage, on the other hand the aristos did tend to breed only amongst themselves. Has anyone ever researched this?
    When you go back that many generations, almost everyone is related to a particular person who had a large family.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677



    Nice story Sean,

    I think we've just been treated to a rejected Spectator article.
  • SeanTSeanT Posts: 549

    SeanT said:

    A small break from Brexit into geneaology?

    Here's a story.

    My sister has been very professionally researching our family tree. My Dad did this years before in a less committed way, and we discovered - as we expected - many centuries of Cornish tinners, farmers, smugglers, going back to the 13th century. plus a man who kept more frogs than anyone else in Cornwall ("froggy Skewes").

    So I have always felt authentically Cornish, but not very posh.

    My sister however has taken things further. She has gone back to my great great great great grandmother, Frances Moyle (nee Tremayne) - from whom I get my nom de plume.

    It turns out this strand of the family has, well, quite the background.

    The Tremaynes date back, provably and directly to the 12th century, and a Knight Templar, Peter de Tremaen, a warrior of Norman blood. Even more fascinating, Peter's son (my great great great... etc etc grandfather) married a Peverell, and they go back to the Norman Conquest, when my great great great... blah blah.. grandfather. Ranulph Peverell, was born of William the Conqueror and his Saxon mistress Maud (reputedly the granddaughter of Aethelred the Unready, and thus herself a descendant of Alfred the Great, and ultimately Odin, if Anglo Saxon legends are to be believed)..


    I am thus a direct descendant of William the Conqueror. And I am therefore descended, directly, through him, from King Rollo of Normandy and Ragnar Lothbrok (the guys in VIKINGS, my favourite drama series of the moment - which is now suddenly a home movie), moreover via Rollo and Ragnar I am apparently descended from Halfdan the Old, Fortjof the Ancient Giant, and Snaer and Kari the Myth Kings of Kvenland, who are also regarded as the original Norse Gods of Snow and Ice.

    So I'm *quite* posh after all.

    I'm certainly glad I took my rightful name Tremayne.


    Nice story Sean, well done to your sister for her research; great to be able to trace back to William the Conqueror. How many generations between you and him?

    I have often wondered what proportion of the country has descent from him. On the on hand, given the number of generations involved it could be a high percentage, on the other hand the aristos did tend to breed only amongst themselves. Has anyone ever researched this?
    God I dunno. Forty generations, at a rough guess? I could actually count them, my sister has written it all down.

    Yes I am sure there are many many thousands in the UK who are directly descended from William the First, and millions (most?) will be related in some way.

    The difference is being able to *prove* a direct descent. Which my sister has done. Amazing.

    It does explain, my wife says, certain things about me and the men in my family. Not all good, I hasten to add.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,876
    Ok, England are going to lose this.
  • The ERG having a totally normal one...


    Ben Bradshaw @BenPBradshaw
    1m
    Chaos in Commons as ERG shout “no” to revised Cooper amendment which just repeats what May promised yesterday. ERG co-leader Francois mouths “what the f***k”. Most Tories voting for it. ERG it seems split. #BrexitShambles
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    SeanT said:

    A small break from Brexit into geneaology?

    Here's a story.

    My sister has been very professionally researching our family tree. My Dad did this years before in a less committed way, and we discovered - as we expected - many centuries of Cornish tinners, farmers, smugglers, going back to the 13th century. plus a man who kept more frogs than anyone else in Cornwall ("froggy Skewes").

    So I have always felt authentically Cornish, but not very posh.

    My sister however has taken things further. She has gone back to my great great great great grandmother, Frances Moyle (nee Tremayne) - from whom I get my nom de plume.

    It turns out this strand of the family has, well, quite the background.

    The Tremaynes date back, provably and directly to the 12th century, and a Knight Templar, Peter de Tremaen, a warrior of Norman blood. Even more fascinating, Peter's son (my great great great... etc etc grandfather) married a Peverell, and they go back to the Norman Conquest, when my great great great... blah blah.. grandfather. Ranulph Peverell, was born of William the Conqueror and his Saxon mistress Maud (reputedly the granddaughter of Aethelred the Unready, and thus herself a descendant of Alfred the Great, and ultimately Odin, if Anglo Saxon legends are to be believed)..


    I am thus a direct descendant of William the Conqueror. And I am therefore descended, directly, through him, from King Rollo of Normandy and Ragnar Lothbrok (the guys in VIKINGS, my favourite drama series of the moment - which is now suddenly a home movie), moreover via Rollo and Ragnar I am apparently descended from Halfdan the Old, Fortjof the Ancient Giant, and Snaer and Kari the Myth Kings of Kvenland, who are also regarded as the original Norse Gods of Snow and Ice.

    So I'm *quite* posh after all.

    I'm certainly glad I took my rightful name Tremayne.


    Fascinating stuff. Family trees are always interesting.
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,464
    SeanT said:

    A small break from Brexit into geneaology?

    Here's a story.

    My sister has been very professionally researching our family tree. My Dad did this years before in a less committed way, and we discovered - as we expected - many centuries of Cornish tinners, farmers, smugglers, going back to the 13th century. plus a man who kept more frogs than anyone else in Cornwall ("froggy Skewes").

    So I have always felt authentically Cornish, but not very posh.

    My sister however has taken things further. She has gone back to my great great great great grandmother, Frances Moyle (nee Tremayne) - from whom I get my nom de plume.

    It turns out this strand of the family has, well, quite the background.

    The Tremaynes date back, provably and directly to the 12th century, and a Knight Templar, Peter de Tremaen, a warrior of Norman blood. Even more fascinating, Peter's son (my great great great... etc etc grandfather) married a Peverell, and they go back to the Norman Conquest, when my great great great... blah blah.. grandfather. Ranulph Peverell, was born of William the Conqueror and his Saxon mistress Maud (reputedly the granddaughter of Aethelred the Unready, and thus herself a descendant of Alfred the Great, and ultimately Odin, if Anglo Saxon legends are to be believed)..


    I am thus a direct descendant of William the Conqueror. And I am therefore descended, directly, through him, from King Rollo of Normandy and Ragnar Lothbrok (the guys in VIKINGS, my favourite drama series of the moment - which is now suddenly a home movie), moreover via Rollo and Ragnar I am apparently descended from Halfdan the Old, Fortjof the Ancient Giant, and Snaer and Kari the Myth Kings of Kvenland, who are also regarded as the original Norse Gods of Snow and Ice.

    So I'm *quite* posh after all.

    I'm certainly glad I took my rightful name Tremayne.


    So, Norway plus really for you isn’t it?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,599
    kinabalu said:

    My prediction then:

    In March neither the Deal nor No Deal will pass, the vote is for an extension. A short extension is granted. The objective of the extension is for the truth (that we must ratify the WA if we wish to leave the EU anytime soon) to dawn. 2 things are then possible:

    (1) The truth does dawn. In which case the Deal passes and we leave on 30 June. 75% chance,

    (2) It doesn't. 25% chance.

    In which (2) case, because there is not the stomach for Revoke (either with or without the fig leaf of another Referendum), and no Tory PM can pivot to Labour policy on THE issue of our time, there will be - there has to be - a GENERAL ELECTION.

    If there is, the Cons will run on the Deal and a quick Brexit. Labour will run on a further (longish) extension to negotiate their BINO together with a promise to put that to the ignorami in a Referendum.

    Labour will win that election (if it comes to pass) and will make good on their promise.

    Meaning a Referendum in 2020 which will result in Remain. We stay.

    And Jeremy gets the trains and the water and the inequality sorted.

    Win/Win.

    I think it is fair to say that the chances of (2) coming to pass are approximately zero. The chances of (1), liberally interpreted (it may happen a bit earlier or later) are higher than 75%.

This discussion has been closed.