Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The ERG, the new Militant tendency?

245678

Comments

  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    dr_spyn said:

    https://twitter.com/SkyKatieSpencer/status/1090237248111558656


    Peter Cook would have had a field day with this summing up.

    6 weeks.

    Out in time for Mays Plan F
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,842
    Best any of us can do is contact people we know in Peterborough and make sure that 7000 signatures are collected on the petition. She needs to be out of Parliament once and for all.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,257
    HYUFD said:

    If the ERG vote down Brady having voted down the Deal and Cooper and Grieve pass they will have opened the way to BINO which would be more likely than No Deal

    To go a bit Keegan, from Mrs May's point of view the Brady means that she has to go to Brussels and get something, and the Cooper makes it less likely that she will succeed in doing so because the EU will just luv it that the threat of no deal has more or less gone.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    Pulpstar said:

    I don't think her being black has a tin of beans to do with her sentence, OTOH it has probably made her brother's more severe because he is a young black man.
    The leniency is due to the judge being a bleeding lefty halfwit.

    Yes, I'd say gender might be a bigger part of it.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,842

    If Onasanya appeals, that will run the risk of a longer sentence, won't it?

    I thought she was appealing conviction not the sentence... but who knows now what will happen.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,220

    Best any of us can do is contact people we know in Peterborough and make sure that 7000 signatures are collected on the petition. She needs to be out of Parliament once and for all.

    As I've said if Labour has any sense they'll support the petition. Surely the Tories (And minor parties) will ?
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,842
    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I don't think her being black has a tin of beans to do with her sentence, OTOH it has probably made her brother's more severe because he is a young black man.
    The leniency is due to the judge being a bleeding lefty halfwit.

    Yes, I'd say gender might be a bigger part of it.
    It didn't in the Huhne/Price case - they both got the same. And is was a fairly equivalent sort of case
  • She will serve about a month.

    There will be a recall petition which needs about 7000 signatures to force a by election. Her barristers comments in mitigation that she has stayed an MP as it is her only source of income likely to be at the top of the clipboards for that
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,138
    dr_spyn said:

    https://twitter.com/SkyKatieSpencer/status/1090237248111558656


    Peter Cook would have had a field day with this summing up.

    Rich. People. Do. Not. Go. To. Jail.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,501
    edited January 2019
    Danny565 said:

    I think she'll probably resign anyway.

    Unlikely. With that level of chutzpah!

    Now, how many people have I offended?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I don't think her being black has a tin of beans to do with her sentence, OTOH it has probably made her brother's more severe because he is a young black man.
    The leniency is due to the judge being a bleeding lefty halfwit.

    Yes, I'd say gender might be a bigger part of it.
    It didn't in the Huhne/Price case - they both got the same. And is was a fairly equivalent sort of case
    The judge was clearly undermining the jury's verdict.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,220
    Someone remind me of what each party respectively has done, and why his sentence is more than double hers ?
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976

    Endillion said:

    Am going to have to start posting links that show BAME people get longer sentences than non BAME people for the same crimes?

    What happens if you exclude those who aren't prominent public figures with expensive lawyers?
    Is the same pattern.
    Fair enough. I wasn't honestly sure if there was sufficient data to tell.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Hopefully the suspended sentence is over 12 months (I think that pushes her out ?)

    12 months and 1 day would suffice..
    what are the sentencing guidelines?
    There are no sentencing guidelines for this offence.
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092
    Pulpstar said:

    I don't think her being black has a tin of beans to do with her sentence, OTOH it has probably made her brother's more severe because he is a young black man.
    The leniency is due to the judge being a bleeding lefty halfwit.

    I think the reason that she got a lesser sentence is explained in these:

    "Judge: what matters is that I am not sure that you passed the speeding ticket to your brother with the intention, expressly or otherwise, of perverting the course of justice."

    "Judge: I sentence Festus on the basis that you were trying to avoid speeding points for yourself, not for your sister. There was no conspiracy between the two of you at the outset."
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    Pulpstar said:

    I don't think her being black has a tin of beans to do with her sentence, OTOH it has probably made her brother's more severe because he is a young black man.
    The leniency is due to the judge being a bleeding lefty halfwit.

    Might be to do with Good Character? Don't know if Festus has previous.
  • SunnyJimSunnyJim Posts: 1,106
    It does seem the ERG have somehow managed to set themselves up as patsies for Brexit failing.



  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,842
    I trust that the Law Society will ensure she never works as a solicitor again ...
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,389

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I don't think her being black has a tin of beans to do with her sentence, OTOH it has probably made her brother's more severe because he is a young black man.
    The leniency is due to the judge being a bleeding lefty halfwit.

    Yes, I'd say gender might be a bigger part of it.
    It didn't in the Huhne/Price case - they both got the same. And is was a fairly equivalent sort of case
    In general, women are dealt with more leniently by the criminal justice system than men.

    In this case, it seems to be the fact that she is a prominent public figure which swayed the judge. I view that as an aggravating factor, not a mitigating factor.
  • Anorak said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I don't think her being black has a tin of beans to do with her sentence, OTOH it has probably made her brother's more severe because he is a young black man.
    The leniency is due to the judge being a bleeding lefty halfwit.

    Might be to do with Good Character? Don't know if Festus has previous.
    He has an awful lot of previous.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,501
    Anorak said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I don't think her being black has a tin of beans to do with her sentence, OTOH it has probably made her brother's more severe because he is a young black man.
    The leniency is due to the judge being a bleeding lefty halfwit.

    Might be to do with Good Character? Don't know if Festus has previous.
    Quite a lot, but nothing since 2014. See previous thread.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,842
    Sean_F said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I don't think her being black has a tin of beans to do with her sentence, OTOH it has probably made her brother's more severe because he is a young black man.
    The leniency is due to the judge being a bleeding lefty halfwit.

    Yes, I'd say gender might be a bigger part of it.
    It didn't in the Huhne/Price case - they both got the same. And is was a fairly equivalent sort of case
    In general, women are dealt with more leniently by the criminal justice system than men.

    In this case, it seems to be the fact that she is a prominent public figure which swayed the judge. I view that as an aggravating factor, not a mitigating factor.
    I cannot disagree with you on that.

    A solicitor and MP should have been held to a higher standard in this case. She perverted the course of justice. As an officer of the law and a law-maker, that is beyond the acceptable.

    The judge has damaged justice today.
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780
    Pulpstar said:

    Best any of us can do is contact people we know in Peterborough and make sure that 7000 signatures are collected on the petition. She needs to be out of Parliament once and for all.

    As I've said if Labour has any sense they'll support the petition. Surely the Tories (And minor parties) will ?
    If Labour has any sense they'll organise it.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I don't think her being black has a tin of beans to do with her sentence, OTOH it has probably made her brother's more severe because he is a young black man.
    The leniency is due to the judge being a bleeding lefty halfwit.

    Yes, I'd say gender might be a bigger part of it.
    It didn't in the Huhne/Price case - they both got the same. And is was a fairly equivalent sort of case
    Huhne and Price colluded though. In this case, the judge seems to have sentenced on the basis that the crimes were independent of each other (somehow).
  • I trust that the Law Society will ensure she never works as a solicitor again ...

    Professional standards for solicitors actually very high and dishonesty is a striking off offence - but it will have to wind through quasi judicial process before inevitable conclusion
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,842
    Endillion said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I don't think her being black has a tin of beans to do with her sentence, OTOH it has probably made her brother's more severe because he is a young black man.
    The leniency is due to the judge being a bleeding lefty halfwit.

    Yes, I'd say gender might be a bigger part of it.
    It didn't in the Huhne/Price case - they both got the same. And is was a fairly equivalent sort of case
    Huhne and Price colluded though. In this case, the judge seems to have sentenced on the basis that the crimes were independent of each other (somehow).
    The judge clearly has some sort of agenda - it is just mindboggling
  • A dental student found guilty of sexually assaulting a six-year-old girl will face no punishment after being granted an absolute discharge.

    Christopher Daniel, 18, denied carrying out numerous assaults on the girl while he was aged 15 to 17 and she was between six and eight.

    He was granted the discharge by Sheriff Gerard Sinclair after being found guilty at Dumbarton sheriff court at the end of a three-day trial. It means that Daniel, from Glasgow, will not be placed on the sex offenders register and the guilty verdict was not recorded as a conviction.

    The victim’s family were not allowed to see a report sent by the sheriff to the Crown Office explaining his “wholly exceptional” decision, an STV investigation has found. They believe that Daniel’s middle-class background, strong educational attainment and career prospects helped to convince the sheriff to grant the most lenient possible disposal.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/student-guilty-of-sex-assault-on-girl-6-will-not-be-punished-rpzdx6bmv
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,626

    Sean_F said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I don't think her being black has a tin of beans to do with her sentence, OTOH it has probably made her brother's more severe because he is a young black man.
    The leniency is due to the judge being a bleeding lefty halfwit.

    Yes, I'd say gender might be a bigger part of it.
    It didn't in the Huhne/Price case - they both got the same. And is was a fairly equivalent sort of case
    In general, women are dealt with more leniently by the criminal justice system than men.

    In this case, it seems to be the fact that she is a prominent public figure which swayed the judge. I view that as an aggravating factor, not a mitigating factor.
    I cannot disagree with you on that.

    A solicitor and MP should have been held to a higher standard in this case. She perverted the course of justice. As an officer of the law and a law-maker, that is beyond the acceptable.

    The judge has damaged justice today.
    The Establishment look after their own will be what The Little People take out of that sentence.
  • XenonXenon Posts: 471

    Endillion said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I don't think her being black has a tin of beans to do with her sentence, OTOH it has probably made her brother's more severe because he is a young black man.
    The leniency is due to the judge being a bleeding lefty halfwit.

    Yes, I'd say gender might be a bigger part of it.
    It didn't in the Huhne/Price case - they both got the same. And is was a fairly equivalent sort of case
    Huhne and Price colluded though. In this case, the judge seems to have sentenced on the basis that the crimes were independent of each other (somehow).
    The judge clearly has some sort of agenda - it is just mindboggling
    How are judges selected for cases like this? Just random chance?
  • NeilVWNeilVW Posts: 732
    edited January 2019

    Pulpstar said:

    Best any of us can do is contact people we know in Peterborough and make sure that 7000 signatures are collected on the petition. She needs to be out of Parliament once and for all.

    As I've said if Labour has any sense they'll support the petition. Surely the Tories (And minor parties) will ?
    If Labour has any sense they'll organise it.
    Guardian:

    All major political parties, including Labour, have said they will campaign for Onasanya to be kicked out of parliament.

    The six-week recall petition won’t be triggered unless and until her appeal against conviction is lost.

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,631
    Fiona got lucky. That seems absurdly lenient when compared to Huhne.
  • Pulpstar said:
    I think hizzoner based her confusion on her MS/chaos on becoming an unexpected MP.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    You could say Onasanya is all right.



    I'll get my coat.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,220

    Pulpstar said:
    I think hizzoner based her confusion on her MS/chaos on becoming an unexpected MP.
    Sure, but is he accusing her brother of trying not to take points for a car that he wasn't driving ?!
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,389
    edited January 2019

    A dental student found guilty of sexually assaulting a six-year-old girl will face no punishment after being granted an absolute discharge.

    Christopher Daniel, 18, denied carrying out numerous assaults on the girl while he was aged 15 to 17 and she was between six and eight.

    He was granted the discharge by Sheriff Gerard Sinclair after being found guilty at Dumbarton sheriff court at the end of a three-day trial. It means that Daniel, from Glasgow, will not be placed on the sex offenders register and the guilty verdict was not recorded as a conviction.

    The victim’s family were not allowed to see a report sent by the sheriff to the Crown Office explaining his “wholly exceptional” decision, an STV investigation has found. They believe that Daniel’s middle-class background, strong educational attainment and career prospects helped to convince the sheriff to grant the most lenient possible disposal.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/student-guilty-of-sex-assault-on-girl-6-will-not-be-punished-rpzdx6bmv

    Good grief. In effect, the Sheriff was condoning the offence.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,752
    Xenon said:

    dr_spyn said:
    And the real reason for her not getting put away is revealed. She's black.
    Disgraceful comment.
  • So, to be clear,the judge thinks that lying and perverting to course of justice, blaming an innocent third party, is providing a good role model for young black women.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,257
    Nice header. And Degsy has a taste for posh. Easy to imagine him and Jacob hanging out. Well, almost.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,501

    Pulpstar said:
    I think hizzoner based her confusion on her MS/chaos on becoming an unexpected MP.
    Can she appeal against sentence? I don't know why she would, mind. Logically.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,773
    No mention of the fact that it is dead as dodo, as the EU will not buy the technical solutionsto border stuff, as they have said repeatedly?

    https://twitter.com/BrunoBrussels/status/1090219163275218944
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    @Cyclefree - it looks like you picked a bad day to release a good header. Try not to time your next one with an MP's sentencing :(

    [And since this is PedanticBetting.com, are those final apostrophes misplaced? people's jobs rather than peoples' jobs? ]
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,626

    Pulpstar said:
    I think hizzoner based her confusion on her MS/chaos on becoming an unexpected MP.
    What's hizzoner's excuse for his own confusion?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,742
    I see that the judiciary are the enemies of the people again...
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,692
    edited January 2019

    Pulpstar said:
    I think hizzoner based her confusion on her MS/chaos on becoming an unexpected MP.
    Can she appeal against sentence? I don't know why she would, mind. Logically.
    She can appeal against both sentence and conviction.
  • Of course, like everything else about him, Rees Mogg's Catholicism is a sham. He has voted for every restriction and reduction of welfare benefits since he has been an MP. His political position is the antithesis of Catholic social teaching and his support for nuclear weapons also contradicts the position of the Church whose whip he claims to take. It is only on same sex marriage that he comes close, which seems to point to a man who is simply a bigot in the same category as the DUP.
  • Sean_F said:

    A dental student found guilty of sexually assaulting a six-year-old girl will face no punishment after being granted an absolute discharge.

    Christopher Daniel, 18, denied carrying out numerous assaults on the girl while he was aged 15 to 17 and she was between six and eight.

    He was granted the discharge by Sheriff Gerard Sinclair after being found guilty at Dumbarton sheriff court at the end of a three-day trial. It means that Daniel, from Glasgow, will not be placed on the sex offenders register and the guilty verdict was not recorded as a conviction.

    The victim’s family were not allowed to see a report sent by the sheriff to the Crown Office explaining his “wholly exceptional” decision, an STV investigation has found. They believe that Daniel’s middle-class background, strong educational attainment and career prospects helped to convince the sheriff to grant the most lenient possible disposal.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/student-guilty-of-sex-assault-on-girl-6-will-not-be-punished-rpzdx6bmv

    Good grief. In effect, the Sheriff was condoning the offence.
    People like Xenon will be shocked to learn that Christopher Daniel is white.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,773
    Brabin putting forward a ten minute rule bill about smoking on NHS premises.

  • Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:
    I think hizzoner based her confusion on her MS/chaos on becoming an unexpected MP.
    Sure, but is he accusing her brother of trying not to take points for a car that he wasn't driving ?!
    I'm reserving judgment until I see the full sentencing remarks, that BBC chap seems to be a bit confused himself.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,631

    Best any of us can do is contact people we know in Peterborough and make sure that 7000 signatures are collected on the petition. She needs to be out of Parliament once and for all.

    :+1:

    My parents are next door in Rutland, will remind them to speak to anyone they know in Peterborough.

    Hopefully someone will get a phone bank going and print some leaflets.
  • Brabin putting forward a ten minute rule bill about smoking on NHS premises.

    I agree with her
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091

    Pulpstar said:
    I think hizzoner based her confusion on her MS/chaos on becoming an unexpected MP.
    Can she appeal against sentence? I don't know why she would, mind. Logically.
    She can appeal against both sentence and conviction.
    Does the recall mechanism get triggered before appeal?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,773

    Brabin putting forward a ten minute rule bill about smoking on NHS premises.

    I agree with her
    Unlucky for her, no one is listening as they are waiting for Bercow's big moment.
  • NeilVWNeilVW Posts: 732

    Brabin putting forward a ten minute rule bill about smoking on NHS premises.

    Patients will be able to smoke for ten minutes at a time? :smile:
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,220
    Swap Festus and Fiona's roles round in this - now who thinks she'd have got 10 months; and he'd have got 3 ?
  • Danny565 said:

    Pulpstar said:
    I think hizzoner based her confusion on her MS/chaos on becoming an unexpected MP.
    Can she appeal against sentence? I don't know why she would, mind. Logically.
    She can appeal against both sentence and conviction.
    Does the recall mechanism get triggered before appeal?
    I don't think so, I've seen some people say the recall petition can only begin once she's exhausted the appellate process.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091

    Danny565 said:

    Pulpstar said:
    I think hizzoner based her confusion on her MS/chaos on becoming an unexpected MP.
    Can she appeal against sentence? I don't know why she would, mind. Logically.
    She can appeal against both sentence and conviction.
    Does the recall mechanism get triggered before appeal?
    I don't think so, I've seen some people say the recall petition can only begin once she's exhausted the appellate process.
    God, this saga could go on for months then.
  • NeilVWNeilVW Posts: 732
    Danny565 said:

    Pulpstar said:
    I think hizzoner based her confusion on her MS/chaos on becoming an unexpected MP.
    Can she appeal against sentence? I don't know why she would, mind. Logically.
    She can appeal against both sentence and conviction.
    Does the recall mechanism get triggered before appeal?
    No, the appeal has to be lost first. (Not sure if she has further appeal steps if the first fails.)
  • XenonXenon Posts: 471

    Sean_F said:

    A dental student found guilty of sexually assaulting a six-year-old girl will face no punishment after being granted an absolute discharge.

    Christopher Daniel, 18, denied carrying out numerous assaults on the girl while he was aged 15 to 17 and she was between six and eight.

    He was granted the discharge by Sheriff Gerard Sinclair after being found guilty at Dumbarton sheriff court at the end of a three-day trial. It means that Daniel, from Glasgow, will not be placed on the sex offenders register and the guilty verdict was not recorded as a conviction.

    The victim’s family were not allowed to see a report sent by the sheriff to the Crown Office explaining his “wholly exceptional” decision, an STV investigation has found. They believe that Daniel’s middle-class background, strong educational attainment and career prospects helped to convince the sheriff to grant the most lenient possible disposal.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/student-guilty-of-sex-assault-on-girl-6-will-not-be-punished-rpzdx6bmv

    Good grief. In effect, the Sheriff was condoning the offence.
    People like Xenon will be shocked to learn that Christopher Daniel is white.
    As you posted it I knew it would be a white man.

    Strangely you never seem to post anything regarding the child rape gangs that seem to appear wherever a particular ideology is present.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,773
    NeilVW said:

    Brabin putting forward a ten minute rule bill about smoking on NHS premises.

    Patients will be able to smoke for ten minutes at a time? :smile:
    Only the beagles.
  • NeilVWNeilVW Posts: 732
    You’d think they would hear the appeal against conviction speedily, in view of the short sentence?
  • Xenon said:

    Sean_F said:

    A dental student found guilty of sexually assaulting a six-year-old girl will face no punishment after being granted an absolute discharge.

    Christopher Daniel, 18, denied carrying out numerous assaults on the girl while he was aged 15 to 17 and she was between six and eight.

    He was granted the discharge by Sheriff Gerard Sinclair after being found guilty at Dumbarton sheriff court at the end of a three-day trial. It means that Daniel, from Glasgow, will not be placed on the sex offenders register and the guilty verdict was not recorded as a conviction.

    The victim’s family were not allowed to see a report sent by the sheriff to the Crown Office explaining his “wholly exceptional” decision, an STV investigation has found. They believe that Daniel’s middle-class background, strong educational attainment and career prospects helped to convince the sheriff to grant the most lenient possible disposal.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/student-guilty-of-sex-assault-on-girl-6-will-not-be-punished-rpzdx6bmv

    Good grief. In effect, the Sheriff was condoning the offence.
    People like Xenon will be shocked to learn that Christopher Daniel is white.
    As you posted it I knew it would be a white man.

    Strangely you never seem to post anything regarding the child rape gangs that seem to appear wherever a particular ideology is present.
    I've regularly posted about it.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,692
    edited January 2019
    Danny565 said:

    Danny565 said:

    Pulpstar said:
    I think hizzoner based her confusion on her MS/chaos on becoming an unexpected MP.
    Can she appeal against sentence? I don't know why she would, mind. Logically.
    She can appeal against both sentence and conviction.
    Does the recall mechanism get triggered before appeal?
    I don't think so, I've seen some people say the recall petition can only begin once she's exhausted the appellate process.
    God, this saga could go on for months then.
    Indeed, like I said earlier, the AG could ask for a sentence review if he thinks it was unduly lenient.

    Although given the political sensitivities of a Tory AG appearing to try to engineer a by election in a Labour held seat I cannot see it happening.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,773
    :lol: some just shouted this is "drama school stuff" as Brabin carefully makes her presentation to the speaker.
  • All relevant amendments accepted by Bercow
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,389

    Sean_F said:

    A dental student found guilty of sexually assaulting a six-year-old girl will face no punishment after being granted an absolute discharge.

    Christopher Daniel, 18, denied carrying out numerous assaults on the girl while he was aged 15 to 17 and she was between six and eight.

    He was granted the discharge by Sheriff Gerard Sinclair after being found guilty at Dumbarton sheriff court at the end of a three-day trial. It means that Daniel, from Glasgow, will not be placed on the sex offenders register and the guilty verdict was not recorded as a conviction.

    The victim’s family were not allowed to see a report sent by the sheriff to the Crown Office explaining his “wholly exceptional” decision, an STV investigation has found. They believe that Daniel’s middle-class background, strong educational attainment and career prospects helped to convince the sheriff to grant the most lenient possible disposal.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/student-guilty-of-sex-assault-on-girl-6-will-not-be-punished-rpzdx6bmv

    Good grief. In effect, the Sheriff was condoning the offence.
    People like Xenon will be shocked to learn that Christopher Daniel is white.
    I don't think that having good career prospects, or educational prospects, ahead of you, should result in any sentencing discount. If anything, it seems worse for such people to commit serious offences than it is for people who have nothing.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,773
    Brady in.
  • Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    A dental student found guilty of sexually assaulting a six-year-old girl will face no punishment after being granted an absolute discharge.

    Christopher Daniel, 18, denied carrying out numerous assaults on the girl while he was aged 15 to 17 and she was between six and eight.

    He was granted the discharge by Sheriff Gerard Sinclair after being found guilty at Dumbarton sheriff court at the end of a three-day trial. It means that Daniel, from Glasgow, will not be placed on the sex offenders register and the guilty verdict was not recorded as a conviction.

    The victim’s family were not allowed to see a report sent by the sheriff to the Crown Office explaining his “wholly exceptional” decision, an STV investigation has found. They believe that Daniel’s middle-class background, strong educational attainment and career prospects helped to convince the sheriff to grant the most lenient possible disposal.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/student-guilty-of-sex-assault-on-girl-6-will-not-be-punished-rpzdx6bmv

    Good grief. In effect, the Sheriff was condoning the offence.
    People like Xenon will be shocked to learn that Christopher Daniel is white.
    I don't think that having good career prospects, or educational prospects, ahead of you, should result in any sentencing discount. If anything, it seems worse for such people to commit serious offences than it is for people who have nothing.
    What happened to that female student who stabbed her boyfriend and was convicted but she was still intending to become a doctor?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,773
    a; o; g;b;j;i;n

    Corbyn first.

  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621

    Danny565 said:

    Danny565 said:

    Pulpstar said:
    I think hizzoner based her confusion on her MS/chaos on becoming an unexpected MP.
    Can she appeal against sentence? I don't know why she would, mind. Logically.
    She can appeal against both sentence and conviction.
    Does the recall mechanism get triggered before appeal?
    I don't think so, I've seen some people say the recall petition can only begin once she's exhausted the appellate process.
    God, this saga could go on for months then.
    Indeed, like I said earlier, the AG could ask for a sentence review if he thinks it was unduly lenient.

    Although given the political sensitivities of a Tory AG appearing to try to engineer a by election in a Labour held seat I cannot see it happening.
    Plus it's not a sufficiently heinous crime to intervene on. One lenient sentence for dodging a speeding fine is hardly up there with the Great Judicial Mistakes.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,742
    Danny565 said:

    Pulpstar said:
    I think hizzoner based her confusion on her MS/chaos on becoming an unexpected MP.
    Can she appeal against sentence? I don't know why she would, mind. Logically.
    She can appeal against both sentence and conviction.
    Does the recall mechanism get triggered before appeal?
    It seems not

    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1090240172732624897?s=19
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176

    Sean_F said:

    A dental student found guilty of sexually assaulting a six-year-old girl will face no punishment after being granted an absolute discharge.

    Christopher Daniel, 18, denied carrying out numerous assaults on the girl while he was aged 15 to 17 and she was between six and eight.

    He was granted the discharge by Sheriff Gerard Sinclair after being found guilty at Dumbarton sheriff court at the end of a three-day trial. It means that Daniel, from Glasgow, will not be placed on the sex offenders register and the guilty verdict was not recorded as a conviction.

    The victim’s family were not allowed to see a report sent by the sheriff to the Crown Office explaining his “wholly exceptional” decision, an STV investigation has found. They believe that Daniel’s middle-class background, strong educational attainment and career prospects helped to convince the sheriff to grant the most lenient possible disposal.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/student-guilty-of-sex-assault-on-girl-6-will-not-be-punished-rpzdx6bmv

    Good grief. In effect, the Sheriff was condoning the offence.
    People like Xenon will be shocked to learn that Christopher Daniel is white.
    Did the judge make reference to Daniel's whiteness and maleness? Obviously a shocking decision, but two wrongs etc.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,220
    I think the judge has taken a slice of racial bias here - but both ways creating over-leniency for Fiona as she's a 'black woman made good'; yet her brother is clearly a ne'er do well (I note his last conviction was 2014...) black man.
  • rural_voterrural_voter Posts: 2,038

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    A dental student found guilty of sexually assaulting a six-year-old girl will face no punishment after being granted an absolute discharge.

    Christopher Daniel, 18, denied carrying out numerous assaults on the girl while he was aged 15 to 17 and she was between six and eight.

    He was granted the discharge by Sheriff Gerard Sinclair after being found guilty at Dumbarton sheriff court at the end of a three-day trial. It means that Daniel, from Glasgow, will not be placed on the sex offenders register and the guilty verdict was not recorded as a conviction.

    The victim’s family were not allowed to see a report sent by the sheriff to the Crown Office explaining his “wholly exceptional” decision, an STV investigation has found. They believe that Daniel’s middle-class background, strong educational attainment and career prospects helped to convince the sheriff to grant the most lenient possible disposal.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/student-guilty-of-sex-assault-on-girl-6-will-not-be-punished-rpzdx6bmv

    Good grief. In effect, the Sheriff was condoning the offence.
    People like Xenon will be shocked to learn that Christopher Daniel is white.
    I don't think that having good career prospects, or educational prospects, ahead of you, should result in any sentencing discount. If anything, it seems worse for such people to commit serious offences than it is for people who have nothing.
    What happened to that female student who stabbed her boyfriend and was convicted but she was still intending to become a doctor?
    Don't forget Jeremy Thorpe. He was totally innocent ...
    https://theneedleblog.wordpress.com/2013/02/19/the-bias-judge/
  • Anorak said:

    Danny565 said:

    Danny565 said:

    Pulpstar said:
    I think hizzoner based her confusion on her MS/chaos on becoming an unexpected MP.
    Can she appeal against sentence? I don't know why she would, mind. Logically.
    She can appeal against both sentence and conviction.
    Does the recall mechanism get triggered before appeal?
    I don't think so, I've seen some people say the recall petition can only begin once she's exhausted the appellate process.
    God, this saga could go on for months then.
    Indeed, like I said earlier, the AG could ask for a sentence review if he thinks it was unduly lenient.

    Although given the political sensitivities of a Tory AG appearing to try to engineer a by election in a Labour held seat I cannot see it happening.
    Plus it's not a sufficiently heinous crime to intervene on. One lenient sentence for dodging a speeding fine is hardly up there with the Great Judicial Mistakes.
    It's a heinous crime for gamblers, one that would have ensured a by election in a marginal.
  • More importantly how long did the mystery Russian joyrider get?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,220

    All relevant amendments accepted by Bercow

    Good.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,773
    Liddington looking very twitchy.

    Coffee and late nights?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,389

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    A dental student found guilty of sexually assaulting a six-year-old girl will face no punishment after being granted an absolute discharge.

    Christopher Daniel, 18, denied carrying out numerous assaults on the girl while he was aged 15 to 17 and she was between six and eight.

    He was granted the discharge by Sheriff Gerard Sinclair after being found guilty at Dumbarton sheriff court at the end of a three-day trial. It means that Daniel, from Glasgow, will not be placed on the sex offenders register and the guilty verdict was not recorded as a conviction.

    The victim’s family were not allowed to see a report sent by the sheriff to the Crown Office explaining his “wholly exceptional” decision, an STV investigation has found. They believe that Daniel’s middle-class background, strong educational attainment and career prospects helped to convince the sheriff to grant the most lenient possible disposal.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/student-guilty-of-sex-assault-on-girl-6-will-not-be-punished-rpzdx6bmv

    Good grief. In effect, the Sheriff was condoning the offence.
    People like Xenon will be shocked to learn that Christopher Daniel is white.
    I don't think that having good career prospects, or educational prospects, ahead of you, should result in any sentencing discount. If anything, it seems worse for such people to commit serious offences than it is for people who have nothing.
    What happened to that female student who stabbed her boyfriend and was convicted but she was still intending to become a doctor?
    I know.

    I can see that there are inevitable ways that being middle class will help you get more lenient treatment (and it overlaps with race). You'll have a good solicitor/barrister; he'll make sure you wear a suit, and address the judge and prosecution respectfully. He'll make sure you engage with the system, advising you to plead guilty if necessary, and to make a heartfelt statement in mitigation.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621

    Anorak said:

    Danny565 said:

    Danny565 said:

    Pulpstar said:
    I think hizzoner based her confusion on her MS/chaos on becoming an unexpected MP.
    Can she appeal against sentence? I don't know why she would, mind. Logically.
    She can appeal against both sentence and conviction.
    Does the recall mechanism get triggered before appeal?
    I don't think so, I've seen some people say the recall petition can only begin once she's exhausted the appellate process.
    God, this saga could go on for months then.
    Indeed, like I said earlier, the AG could ask for a sentence review if he thinks it was unduly lenient.

    Although given the political sensitivities of a Tory AG appearing to try to engineer a by election in a Labour held seat I cannot see it happening.
    Plus it's not a sufficiently heinous crime to intervene on. One lenient sentence for dodging a speeding fine is hardly up there with the Great Judicial Mistakes.
    It's a heinous crime for gamblers, one that would have ensured a by election in a marginal.
    Fair point. I shall start a petition immediately.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,742

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    A dental student found guilty of sexually assaulting a six-year-old girl will face no punishment after being granted an absolute discharge.

    Christopher Daniel, 18, denied carrying out numerous assaults on the girl while he was aged 15 to 17 and she was between six and eight.

    He was granted the discharge by Sheriff Gerard Sinclair after being found guilty at Dumbarton sheriff court at the end of a three-day trial. It means that Daniel, from Glasgow, will not be placed on the sex offenders register and the guilty verdict was not recorded as a conviction.

    The victim’s family were not allowed to see a report sent by the sheriff to the Crown Office explaining his “wholly exceptional” decision, an STV investigation has found. They believe that Daniel’s middle-class background, strong educational attainment and career prospects helped to convince the sheriff to grant the most lenient possible disposal.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/student-guilty-of-sex-assault-on-girl-6-will-not-be-punished-rpzdx6bmv

    Good grief. In effect, the Sheriff was condoning the offence.
    People like Xenon will be shocked to learn that Christopher Daniel is white.
    I don't think that having good career prospects, or educational prospects, ahead of you, should result in any sentencing discount. If anything, it seems worse for such people to commit serious offences than it is for people who have nothing.
    What happened to that female student who stabbed her boyfriend and was convicted but she was still intending to become a doctor?
    She is waiting to reapply for her course:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/06/08/oxford-university-student-avoided-prison-stabbing-boyfriend/
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,626

    Danny565 said:

    Danny565 said:

    Pulpstar said:
    I think hizzoner based her confusion on her MS/chaos on becoming an unexpected MP.
    Can she appeal against sentence? I don't know why she would, mind. Logically.
    She can appeal against both sentence and conviction.
    Does the recall mechanism get triggered before appeal?
    I don't think so, I've seen some people say the recall petition can only begin once she's exhausted the appellate process.
    God, this saga could go on for months then.
    Indeed, like I said earlier, the AG could ask for a sentence review if he thinks it was unduly lenient.

    Although given the political sensitivities of a Tory AG appearing to try to engineer a by election in a Labour held seat I cannot see it happening.
    I don't think anyone would be wise to wade in on trying to get a different sentence.

    Just file under "things that make you go hmmmmmm....."
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,751
    NeilVW said:

    Danny565 said:

    Pulpstar said:
    I think hizzoner based her confusion on her MS/chaos on becoming an unexpected MP.
    Can she appeal against sentence? I don't know why she would, mind. Logically.
    She can appeal against both sentence and conviction.
    Does the recall mechanism get triggered before appeal?
    No, the appeal has to be lost first. (Not sure if she has further appeal steps if the first fails.)
    Does she have any grounds for appeal? You can't just get a second go because you don't like the verdict, I think?
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    A dental student found guilty of sexually assaulting a six-year-old girl will face no punishment after being granted an absolute discharge.

    Christopher Daniel, 18, denied carrying out numerous assaults on the girl while he was aged 15 to 17 and she was between six and eight.

    He was granted the discharge by Sheriff Gerard Sinclair after being found guilty at Dumbarton sheriff court at the end of a three-day trial. It means that Daniel, from Glasgow, will not be placed on the sex offenders register and the guilty verdict was not recorded as a conviction.

    The victim’s family were not allowed to see a report sent by the sheriff to the Crown Office explaining his “wholly exceptional” decision, an STV investigation has found. They believe that Daniel’s middle-class background, strong educational attainment and career prospects helped to convince the sheriff to grant the most lenient possible disposal.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/student-guilty-of-sex-assault-on-girl-6-will-not-be-punished-rpzdx6bmv

    Good grief. In effect, the Sheriff was condoning the offence.
    People like Xenon will be shocked to learn that Christopher Daniel is white.
    I don't think that having good career prospects, or educational prospects, ahead of you, should result in any sentencing discount. If anything, it seems worse for such people to commit serious offences than it is for people who have nothing.
    What happened to that female student who stabbed her boyfriend and was convicted but she was still intending to become a doctor?
    I know.

    I can see that there are inevitable ways that being middle class will help you get more lenient treatment (and it overlaps with race). You'll have a good solicitor/barrister; he'll make sure you wear a suit, and address the judge and prosecution respectfully. He'll make sure you engage with the system, advising you to plead guilty if necessary, and to make a heartfelt statement in mitigation.
    OJ Simpson is the exemplar.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006
    Xenon said:

    dr_spyn said:
    And the real reason for her not getting put away is revealed. She's black.
    I's wait to see how harshly the Duke of Edinburgh gets treated before jumping to that particular conclusion.

  • AmpfieldAndyAmpfieldAndy Posts: 1,445
    Interesting article but I think there are too many important differences for the analogy to stick. Militant knew what they wanted, even if what they wanted was barking mad (rather like Corbyn’s aims today). The ERG only seem to know what they don’t want. Militant wanted power; the ERG seem to be happy with being back street drivers without the responsibility that goes with office. Militant tried to incite mobs to exert pressure on politicians to achieve their aims. The ERG seem to be a single issue group and rely exclusively on the referendum result to defend their actions but otherwise seem to eschew the need for popular support for what they do.

    Militant were an existential threat to Labour before a Kinnock took them on. If ever we leave the EU, it’s tough to see the ERG continue as a viable group.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,626
    Anyway, Peterborough can add "convict" to the list of dodgy MPs they've had....
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    If there were a by-election in Peterborough, I'd expect Labour to hold the seat comfortably. The Leave vote would be split multiple ways.
  • tlg86 said:

    Sean_F said:

    A dental student found guilty of sexually assaulting a six-year-old girl will face no punishment after being granted an absolute discharge.

    Christopher Daniel, 18, denied carrying out numerous assaults on the girl while he was aged 15 to 17 and she was between six and eight.

    He was granted the discharge by Sheriff Gerard Sinclair after being found guilty at Dumbarton sheriff court at the end of a three-day trial. It means that Daniel, from Glasgow, will not be placed on the sex offenders register and the guilty verdict was not recorded as a conviction.

    The victim’s family were not allowed to see a report sent by the sheriff to the Crown Office explaining his “wholly exceptional” decision, an STV investigation has found. They believe that Daniel’s middle-class background, strong educational attainment and career prospects helped to convince the sheriff to grant the most lenient possible disposal.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/student-guilty-of-sex-assault-on-girl-6-will-not-be-punished-rpzdx6bmv

    Good grief. In effect, the Sheriff was condoning the offence.
    People like Xenon will be shocked to learn that Christopher Daniel is white.
    Did the judge make reference to Daniel's whiteness and maleness? Obviously a shocking decision, but two wrongs etc.
    Unfortunately the Sheriff won't release his reasoning.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,134
    edited January 2019
    Miss, miss, I know this one...I believe the correct answer is unicorn poop.
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    @ Cyclefree: “You can’t play politics with peoples’ jobs and peoples’ services.”

    Sounds like a message for Trump ...
This discussion has been closed.