Today I posted a Christmas parcel to my son who is working in Turkey. The postmistress in this very white part of Scotland wondered for a moment whether Turkey was already in the EU before deciding that they're "not in just yet". The Tories got less than a sixth of the vote here in the 2017 GE, and less than a twelfth in 2015, and the small business class in this part of the world is mainly SNP or Labour. She was not interested in my referencing David Cameron's observation that at the current rate of progress Turkey won't join the EU before the year 3000. Nor did she care to learn that accession requires unanimity, and that it is extremely improbable that parties supporting actual full accession by Turkey will form parliamentary majorities, in coalitions or otherwise, in Germany, Hungary, Austria, Croatia, the Netherlands, and Poland, or indeed even in a single one of those countries. On the contrary, she spoke as if I were a fool for not having drunk up heard the Leave propaganda to the effect that Remaining in the EU would inevitably lead to a large influx of Turks to Britain, since Turkey is about to become a member state. I soon fell back to my staple impersonation of John Cleese's character in the village idiot sketch.
We Remainers will have our work seriously cut out for us in a future referendum.
Isn't it sill British government policy that Turkey should become a member of the EU ?
I don't think Britain has a policy any more on who should join the EU, but to the extent that Britain is a member state and Turkey is supposedly on the road to membership, yes. Note my use of the word "actual". Turkey is not going to join the EU.
Not the strongest of arguments is it? Especially since up until then, despite numerous less than democratic things happening, the UK and other key member states were still wholeheartedly backing Turkey's accession.
Today I posted a Christmas parcel to my son who is working in Turkey. The postmistress in this very white part of Scotland wondered for a moment whether Turkey was already in the EU before deciding that they're "not in just yet". The Tories got less than a sixth of the vote here in the 2017 GE, and less than a twelfth in 2015, and the small business class in this part of the world is mainly SNP or Labour. She was not interested in my referencing David Cameron's observation that at the current rate of progress Turkey won't join the EU before the year 3000. Nor did she care to learn that accession requires unanimity, and that it is extremely improbable that parties supporting actual full accession by Turkey will form parliamentary majorities, in coalitions or otherwise, in Germany, Hungary, Austria, Croatia, the Netherlands, and Poland, or indeed even in a single one of those countries. On the contrary, she spoke as if I were a fool for not having drunk up heard the Leave propaganda to the effect that Remaining in the EU would inevitably lead to a large influx of Turks to Britain, since Turkey is about to become a member state. I soon fell back to my staple impersonation of John Cleese's character in the village idiot sketch.
We Remainers will have our work seriously cut out for us in a future referendum.
Isn't it sill British government policy that Turkey should become a member of the EU ?
I don't think Britain has a policy any more on who should join the EU, but to the extent that Britain is a member state and Turkey is supposedly on the road to membership, yes. Note my use of the word "actual". Turkey is not going to join the EU.
You cannot blame people for thinking that Turkey is going to join the EU when it is British government policy for Turkey to join the EU.
And after all Turkey is in UEFA, Turkey is in Eurovision, Turkey is in NATO ...
Of all the arguments on Brexit it is not the strongest. Oh woe is me, people besides the young vote, and how dare they come to a different conclusion about what is best for the future, so let's call it betrayal because I'm a old self pitier.
Say "Brexit was stupid, and lots of people are now looking for a way to backpedal away from this nonsense wihtout losing face (except for old people who will be dead soon anyway)" , since it's a more honest version of the same argument.
Today I posted a Christmas parcel to my son who is working in Turkey. The postmistress in this very white part of Scotland wondered for a moment whether Turkey was already in the EU before deciding that they're "not in just yet". The Tories got less than a sixth of the vote here in the 2017 GE, and less than a twelfth in 2015, and the small business class in this part of the world is mainly SNP or Labour. She was not interested in my referencing David Cameron's observation that at the current rate of progress Turkey won't join the EU before the year 3000. Nor did she care to learn that accession requires unanimity, and that it is extremely improbable that parties supporting actual full accession by Turkey will form parliamentary majorities, in coalitions or otherwise, in Germany, Hungary, Austria, Croatia, the Netherlands, and Poland, or indeed even in a single one of those countries. On the contrary, she spoke as if I were a fool for not having drunk up heard the Leave propaganda to the effect that Remaining in the EU would inevitably lead to a large influx of Turks to Britain, since Turkey is about to become a member state. I soon fell back to my staple impersonation of John Cleese's character in the village idiot sketch.
We Remainers will have our work seriously cut out for us in a future referendum.
Isn't it sill British government policy that Turkey should become a member of the EU ?
The British Government has a policy????
British governments have a multitude of policies.
Whether these policies have any likelihood of being implemented and whether if implemented they would be beneficial are different matters.
Were they ignored - I thought they had a vote like everyone else.
If the demographics were the other way round the europhiles would be applauding the wisdom and experience of the old, and berating the ignorance and foolishness of the youth who hadn't accumulated enough knowledge yet to vote.
To my mind, older voters were actually the voice of rationality, because they'd been around before we joined in the 70's, so knew that life actually existed. It was young remain voters whose world was (and presumably still is) caving in, because they'd never known life outside the EU.
Today I posted a Christmas parcel to my son who is working in Turkey. The postmistress in this very white part of Scotland wondered for a moment whether Turkey was already in the EU before deciding that they're "not in just yet". The Tories got less than a sixth of the vote here in the 2017 GE, and less than a twelfth in 2015, and the small business class in this part of the world is mainly SNP or Labour. She was not interested in my referencing David Cameron's observation that at the current rate of progress Turkey won't join the EU before the year 3000. Nor did she care to learn that accession requires unanimity, and that it is extremely improbable that parties supporting actual full accession by Turkey will form parliamentary majorities, in coalitions or otherwise, in Germany, Hungary, Austria, Croatia, the Netherlands, and Poland, or indeed even in a single one of those countries. On the contrary, she spoke as if I were a fool for not having drunk up heard the Leave propaganda to the effect that Remaining in the EU would inevitably lead to a large influx of Turks to Britain, since Turkey is about to become a member state. I soon fell back to my staple impersonation of John Cleese's character in the village idiot sketch.
We Remainers will have our work seriously cut out for us in a future referendum.
Isn't it sill British government policy that Turkey should become a member of the EU ?
Expect a manned mission to mars before that happens.
Today I posted a Christmas parcel to my son who is working in Turkey. The postmistress in this very white part of Scotland wondered for a moment whether Turkey was already in the EU before deciding that they're "not in just yet". The Tories got less than a sixth of the vote here in the 2017 GE, and less than a twelfth in 2015, and the small business class in this part of the world is mainly SNP or Labour. She was not interested in my referencing David Cameron's observation that at the current rate of progress Turkey won't join the EU before the year 3000. Nor did she care to learn that accession requires unanimity, and that it is extremely improbable that parties supporting actual full accession by Turkey will form parliamentary majorities, in coalitions or otherwise, in Germany, Hungary, Austria, Croatia, the Netherlands, and Poland, or indeed even in a single one of those countries. On the contrary, she spoke as if I were a fool for not having drunk up heard the Leave propaganda to the effect that Remaining in the EU would inevitably lead to a large influx of Turks to Britain, since Turkey is about to become a member state. I soon fell back to my staple impersonation of John Cleese's character in the village idiot sketch.
We Remainers will have our work seriously cut out for us in a future referendum.
Isn't it sill British government policy that Turkey should become a member of the EU ?
I don't think Britain has a policy any more on who should join the EU, but to the extent that Britain is a member state and Turkey is supposedly on the road to membership, yes. Note my use of the word "actual". Turkey is not going to join the EU.
You cannot blame people for thinking that Turkey is going to join the EU when it is British government policy for Turkey to join the EU.
And after all Turkey is in UEFA, Turkey is in Eurovision, Turkey is in NATO ...
... do we see a pattern here.
So is Israel. Are you expecting them to join the EU too ?
Were they ignored - I thought they had a vote like everyone else.
If the demographics were the other way round the europhiles would be applauding the wisdom and experience of the old, and berating the ignorance and foolishness of the youth who hadn't accumulated enough knowledge yet to vote.
To my mind, older voters were actually the voice of rationality, because they'd been around before we joined in the 70's, so knew that life actually existed. It was young remain voters whose world was (and presumably still is) caving in, because they'd never known life outside the EU.
Someone who was an adult in 1973 would be at least 73 now. The core Brexit vote was among people with no meaningful experience of the post-war, pre-EEC period.
Whilst I agree the guy is a cretin, I did make the point on here last week that the perpetrator had a history of mental health issues, so the crime was not really committed on a political basis. I would suggest groups such as the old IRA or ETA, Baden Meinhof etc as political murderers / terrorists.
Think about the counter factual if someone had come out and murdered Farage in the last days of the campaign and we had seen a swing to Leave would we be saying the same thing?
I think Lilico is arguing from a false premise (two, in fact: the polls were not giving a 10% lead on average at that time). Single-issue events have to be 9/11 sized to move the polls. I was tracking the polls last year when the two terrorist outrages occurred and when you compare polls from the same company across the events they really don't make a difference: a brief blip at best. What was the most dramatic poll change in UK in the 2010's? Nick Clegg in the debates. What happened in the election? The LD's lost seats.
I think my point is not about the swing but more about two other things.
Firstly Is it right to assert that the murder of Jo Cox was a political assassination or the was it the action of someone with mental health issues for a nominal political reason?
Secondly a wider political observation - just because an idiot says it doesnt mean it’s wrong. You see plenty of people raging about Trump or Boris saying something who would think it was fine if Corbyn said it.
Q: "Is it right to assert that the murder of Jo Cox was a political assassination or the was it the action of someone with mental health issues for a nominal political reason?" A: The latter, but I'm not sure the difference is pronounced. Sirhan Sirhan was sane, but I'd argue Giuseppe Zangara was not.
Q: "Just because an idiot says it doesn't mean it’s wrong." A: True.
Were they ignored - I thought they had a vote like everyone else.
If the demographics were the other way round the europhiles would be applauding the wisdom and experience of the old, and berating the ignorance and foolishness of the youth who hadn't accumulated enough knowledge yet to vote.
To my mind, older voters were actually the voice of rationality, because they'd been around before we joined in the 70's, so knew that life actually existed. It was young remain voters whose world was (and presumably still is) caving in, because they'd never known life outside the EU.
Someone who was an adult in 1973 would be at least 73 now. The core Brexit vote was among people with no meaningful experience of the post-war, pre-EEC period.
Today I posted a Christmas parcel to my son who is working in Turkey. The postmistress in this very white part of Scotland wondered for a moment whether Turkey was already in the EU before deciding that they're "not in just yet". The Tories got less than a sixth of the vote here in the 2017 GE, and less than a twelfth in 2015, and the small business class in this part of the world is mainly SNP or Labour. She was not interested in my referencing David Cameron's observation that at the current rate of progress Turkey won't join the EU before the year 3000. Nor did she care to learn that accession requires unanimity, and that it is extremely improbable that parties supporting actual full accession by Turkey will form parliamentary majorities, in coalitions or otherwise, in Germany, Hungary, Austria, Croatia, the Netherlands, and Poland, or indeed even in a single one of those countries. On the contrary, she spoke as if I were a fool for not having drunk up heard the Leave propaganda to the effect that Remaining in the EU would inevitably lead to a large influx of Turks to Britain, since Turkey is about to become a member state. I soon fell back to my staple impersonation of John Cleese's character in the village idiot sketch.
We Remainers will have our work seriously cut out for us in a future referendum.
Isn't it sill British government policy that Turkey should become a member of the EU ?
I don't think Britain has a policy any more on who should join the EU, but to the extent that Britain is a member state and Turkey is supposedly on the road to membership, yes. Note my use of the word "actual". Turkey is not going to join the EU.
You cannot blame people for thinking that Turkey is going to join the EU when it is British government policy for Turkey to join the EU.
And after all Turkey is in UEFA, Turkey is in Eurovision, Turkey is in NATO ...
... do we see a pattern here.
So is Israel. Are you expecting them to join the EU too ?
Has Israel applied and does the British government support it becoming an EU member ?
Today I posted a Christmas parcel to my son who is working in Turkey. The postmistress in this very white part of Scotland wondered for a moment whether Turkey was already in the EU before deciding that they're "not in just yet". The Tories got less than a sixth of the vote here in the 2017 GE, and less than a twelfth in 2015, and the small business class in this part of the world is mainly SNP or Labour. She was not interested in my referencing David Cameron's observation that at the current rate of progress Turkey won't join the EU before the year 3000. Nor did she care to learn that accession requires unanimity, and that it is extremely improbable that parties supporting actual full accession by Turkey will form parliamentary majorities, in coalitions or otherwise, in Germany, Hungary, Austria, Croatia, the Netherlands, and Poland, or indeed even in a single one of those countries. On the contrary, she spoke as if I were a fool for not having drunk up heard the Leave propaganda to the effect that Remaining in the EU would inevitably lead to a large influx of Turks to Britain, since Turkey is about to become a member state. I soon fell back to my staple impersonation of John Cleese's character in the village idiot sketch.
We Remainers will have our work seriously cut out for us in a future referendum.
Isn't it sill British government policy that Turkey should become a member of the EU ?
The British Government has a policy????
British governments have a multitude of policies.
Whether these policies have any likelihood of being implemented and whether if implemented they would be beneficial are different matters.
I still prefer my solution to the backstop which is everyone just pretends it doesn't exist. Self delusion is all the rage.
Remind me?
Of what? The solution? It's as simple as I said - it happens, we just pretend it doesn't. No problem.
If you thought I had an actual good solution I'm sorry for getting your hopes up.
Ah right. Sadly, I fear JRM and co. would believe the backstop was still there even if the EU agreed to scrap it.
I liked (though can't recall who suggested it), co-sovereignty of Northern Island. I'm sure we could do something suitably retro to assuage unionist fears, a la Andorra.
You must be joking - even Britain is not British enough for the unionists and 'compromise' is not in their lexicon.
I jest not. The Unionists are, bluntly, on the wrong side of history and demographics. If they don't flex, then a united Ireland beckons.
That may be so but I do think that 'the wrong side of history' is a common but dumb phrase in a lot of ways.
Khrushchev told Eisenhower he was on the wrong side of history and Eisenhower's grandson would be a Communist.
Not only was Khrushchev wrong about history, his own son is an unabashed capitalist who is an American citizen.
Nikita had his moments, but was famously bonkers.
Oh I don't know. He was the only Soviet leader that came close to putting communism on a path to be a viable economic alternative to capitalism. Where he was bonkers was not realizing most of the rest of the leadership were too conservative to follow.
Were they ignored - I thought they had a vote like everyone else.
If the demographics were the other way round the europhiles would be applauding the wisdom and experience of the old, and berating the ignorance and foolishness of the youth who hadn't accumulated enough knowledge yet to vote.
To my mind, older voters were actually the voice of rationality, because they'd been around before we joined in the 70's, so knew that life actually existed. It was young remain voters whose world was (and presumably still is) caving in, because they'd never known life outside the EU.
Someone who was an adult in 1973 would be at least 73 now. The core Brexit vote was among people with no meaningful experience of the post-war, pre-EEC period.
They wouldn't have had to have been an adult, merely conscious, and aware we had bananas, knicker elastic, TV, the NHS, glass windows, and other such marks of civilisation before the blessed event occured.
Were they ignored - I thought they had a vote like everyone else.
If the demographics were the other way round the europhiles would be applauding the wisdom and experience of the old, and berating the ignorance and foolishness of the youth who hadn't accumulated enough knowledge yet to vote.
To my mind, older voters were actually the voice of rationality, because they'd been around before we joined in the 70's, so knew that life actually existed. It was young remain voters whose world was (and presumably still is) caving in, because they'd never known life outside the EU.
Someone who was an adult in 1973 would be at least 73 now. The core Brexit vote was among people with no meaningful experience of the post-war, pre-EEC period.
Q: "Is it right to assert that the murder of Jo Cox was a political assassination or the was it the action of someone with mental health issues for a nominal political reason?" A: The latter, but I'm not sure the difference is pronounced. Sirhan Sirhan was sane, but I'd argue Giuseppe Zangara was not.
Q: "Just because an idiot says it doesn't mean it’s wrong." A: True.
I'm not sure there is a clear distinction between mental illness and political fanaticism. However sincere a fanatic may be, he's also a madman if he goes around killing people in peacetime. However mad someone may be, he's probably politically motivated as well iuf he singles out opponents to kill. The murderer of Jo Cox was, I have little doubt, both mad and an extremist. It's obviously unfair to project his behaviour onto sane people - even sane people with extreme views who pursue them peacefully.
I still prefer my solution to the backstop which is everyone just pretends it doesn't exist. Self delusion is all the rage.
Remind me?
Of what? The solution? It's as simple as I said - it happens, we just pretend it doesn't. No problem.
If you thought I had an actual good solution I'm sorry for getting your hopes up.
Ah right. Sadly, I fear JRM and co. would believe the backstop was still there even if the EU agreed to scrap it.
I liked (though can't recall who suggested it), co-sovereignty of Northern Island. I'm sure we could do something suitably retro to assuage unionist fears, a la Andorra.
You must be joking - even Britain is not British enough for the unionists and 'compromise' is not in their lexicon.
I jest not. The Unionists are, bluntly, on the wrong side of history and demographics. If they don't flex, then a united Ireland beckons.
That may be so but I do think that 'the wrong side of history' is a common but dumb phrase in a lot of ways.
Khrushchev told Eisenhower he was on the wrong side of history and Eisenhower's grandson would be a Communist.
Not only was Khrushchev wrong about history, his own son is an unabashed capitalist who is an American citizen.
For some perspective, the CPSU General Secretary Nikita Khrushchev averred, around the time he met the queen in Windsor Castle, that were he British he would vote Conservative.
Are you sure? I've never come across that one, and I've taught about Khrushchev for many years. He did say he found it easier to deal with Eden than Gaitskell, but that's a rather different thing.
How many years notice will the army need of a war?
Not sure Tobias realises that whilst it's undoubtedly his mandarins of jamming rifle fame that have told him no deal is no go, it's him who looks incompetent.
I am given to understand that the L85A2 was a massive improvement on its (rubbish) predecessor, and it's newest incarnation L85A3 is now at least competent.
The A2 was very accurate (I could shoot 5cm groups at 100m with it) but still needed a lot of looking after. In Iraq a friendly USN corpsman sold me his M4 which was superior in every possible way so I threw my SA80 L22 out of the Lynx into the Shatt al-Arab. As the conflict entered its "Apocalypse Now" phase and reason departed I supplemented my personal arsenal with a PPQ and a folding stock AKM with tritium sights. That thing would wreck your fucking day.
Comments
And after all Turkey is in UEFA, Turkey is in Eurovision, Turkey is in NATO ...
... do we see a pattern here.
Whether these policies have any likelihood of being implemented and whether if implemented they would be beneficial are different matters.
And no that's not my prediction and I hope none of my money funding it.
A: The latter, but I'm not sure the difference is pronounced. Sirhan Sirhan was sane, but I'd argue Giuseppe Zangara was not.
Q: "Just because an idiot says it doesn't mean it’s wrong."
A: True.
NEW THREAD
Anyway Israel sin't a NATO member.
73 is 45 years ago.
If you were 20 in 73 you are now 65.
Back to school, whippersnapper.