That said, it would be an absolute, inexcusable dereliction of duty if Corbyn and McDonnell and Starmer weren't promising the DUP a moon on a stick right now to peel them off.
Imagine, nailing May with a VONC on the last day of term before Christmas.
At two of those three want a United Ireland and they are so ideologically driven, it won’t occur to them to offer the DUP an olive branch and the DUP wouldn’t believe them if they did.
I have no doubt Labour are perfectly willing to meet the DUP's demands. It's mostly a question of tactics. Would they give up their vice-like grasp on Mrs May's short and curlies in exchange for a promise of no backstop? A promise they surely know Mr Corbyn cannot meaningfully deliver?
The only way I can see the DUP backing Labour is to sabotage May’s backstop and make it a straight choice between no deal or no Brexit.
A Labour government, especially one in hock to the LibDems, Plaid, and the SNP, is not going to go for No Deal under any circumstances, so it would be the current Withdrawal Agreement or Revoke, neither of which the DUP wants. In fact, I don't really see what they do want.
I think that's Labour's problem with the DUP. They've more chance of peeling off half a dozen Tory Remainers with a revoke or ref2 offer.
That said, it would be an absolute, inexcusable dereliction of duty if Corbyn and McDonnell and Starmer weren't promising the DUP a moon on a stick right now to peel them off.
Imagine, nailing May with a VONC on the last day of term before Christmas.
At two of those three want a United Ireland and they are so ideologically driven, it won’t occur to them to offer the DUP an olive branch and the DUP wouldn’t believe them if they did.
I have no doubt Labour are perfectly willing to meet the DUP's demands. It's mostly a question of tactics. Would they give up their vice-like grasp on Mrs May's short and curlies in exchange for a promise of no backstop? A promise they surely know Mr Corbyn cannot meaningfully deliver?
Yes, what would be in it for the DUP?
That's always a fun game. Jez invites Arlene round for a cuppa. "Let's make this happen", he says, "Name your price."
That said, it would be an absolute, inexcusable dereliction of duty if Corbyn and McDonnell and Starmer weren't promising the DUP a moon on a stick right now to peel them off.
Imagine, nailing May with a VONC on the last day of term before Christmas.
At two of those three want a United Ireland and they are so ideologically driven, it won’t occur to them to offer the DUP an olive branch and the DUP wouldn’t believe them if they did.
I have no doubt Labour are perfectly willing to meet the DUP's demands. It's mostly a question of tactics. Would they give up their vice-like grasp on Mrs May's short and curlies in exchange for a promise of no backstop? A promise they surely know Mr Corbyn cannot meaningfully deliver?
The only way I can see the DUP backing Labour is to sabotage May’s backstop and make it a straight choice between no deal or no Brexit.
A Labour government, especially one in hock to the LibDems, Plaid, and the SNP, is not going to go for No Deal under any circumstances, so it would be the current Withdrawal Agreement or Revoke, neither of which the DUP wants. In fact, I don't really see what they do want.
Ummm, I'm not so sure about that.
May's deal crosses the DUP's only serious red line. Remain, by default, does not. They want to leave, sure, but not if it involves any kind of customs or regulatory border in the Irish Sea.
Prime Minister Theresa May has said she will not lead the Conservative Party into the next general election. She said the party would prefer to "to go into that election with another leader", as she arrived in Brussels for an EU summit.
And people say she's tin-eared!
She's reminding me a bit of Saga from The Bridge these days (though without Saga's problem-solving skills obvs.)
That said, it would be an absolute, inexcusable dereliction of duty if Corbyn and McDonnell and Starmer weren't promising the DUP a moon on a stick right now to peel them off.
Imagine, nailing May with a VONC on the last day of term before Christmas.
At two of those three want a United Ireland and they are so ideologically driven, it won’t occur to them to offer the DUP an olive branch and the DUP wouldn’t believe them if they did.
I have no doubt Labour are perfectly willing to meet the DUP's demands. It's mostly a question of tactics. Would they give up their vice-like grasp on Mrs May's short and curlies in exchange for a promise of no backstop? A promise they surely know Mr Corbyn cannot meaningfully deliver?
Yes, what would be in it for the DUP?
That's always a fun game. Jez invites Arlene round for a cuppa. "Let's make this happen", he says, "Name your price."
What does she ask for?
Cheddar cheese and pineapple on a stick.
Also another billion pounds.
I HAVE MADE A LEGITIMATE AND PEACEFUL REQUEST FOR CHEDDAR CHEESE AND PINEAPPLE ON A STICK
Is stopBoris something every PBer can actually agree on?
No. I have money on Boris as next Tory leader, and have had for a long time. Besides, he'd make an amusing LOTO.
If May keeps her promise, the next leader will come in as PM, with a runup to the election. That makes it a LOT less likely that it will be Boris, a failed FS FFS.
That said, it would be an absolute, inexcusable dereliction of duty if Corbyn and McDonnell and Starmer weren't promising the DUP a moon on a stick right now to peel them off.
Imagine, nailing May with a VONC on the last day of term before Christmas.
At two of those three want a United Ireland and they are so ideologically driven, it won’t occur to them to offer the DUP an olive branch and the DUP wouldn’t believe them if they did.
I have no doubt Labour are perfectly willing to meet the DUP's demands. It's mostly a question of tactics. Would they give up their vice-like grasp on Mrs May's short and curlies in exchange for a promise of no backstop? A promise they surely know Mr Corbyn cannot meaningfully deliver?
The only way I can see the DUP backing Labour is to sabotage May’s backstop and make it a straight choice between no deal or no Brexit.
A Labour government, especially one in hock to the LibDems, Plaid, and the SNP, is not going to go for No Deal under any circumstances, so it would be the current Withdrawal Agreement or Revoke, neither of which the DUP wants. In fact, I don't really see what they do want.
Ummm, I'm not so sure about that.
May's deal crosses the DUP's only serious red line. Remain, by default, does not. They want to leave, sure, but not if it involves any kind of customs or regulatory border in the Irish Sea.
Yeah, they might go for Revoke, although they've repeatedly said they want Brexit.
The Guardian reporting that Sebastian Kurz, the Austrian chancellor, has said the EU may call an emergency summit in January to agree 'additional assurances' which could be attached to the political declaration on future relations, addressing concerns of mps. Austria holds the rotating presidency of the EU
That said, it would be an absolute, inexcusable dereliction of duty if Corbyn and McDonnell and Starmer weren't promising the DUP a moon on a stick right now to peel them off.
Imagine, nailing May with a VONC on the last day of term before Christmas.
At two of those three want a United Ireland and they are so ideologically driven, it won’t occur to them to offer the DUP an olive branch and the DUP wouldn’t believe them if they did.
I have no doubt Labour are perfectly willing to meet the DUP's demands. It's mostly a question of tactics. Would they give up their vice-like grasp on Mrs May's short and curlies in exchange for a promise of no backstop? A promise they surely know Mr Corbyn cannot meaningfully deliver?
The only way I can see the DUP backing Labour is to sabotage May’s backstop and make it a straight choice between no deal or no Brexit.
A Labour government, especially one in hock to the LibDems, Plaid, and the SNP, is not going to go for No Deal under any circumstances, so it would be the current Withdrawal Agreement or Revoke, neither of which the DUP wants. In fact, I don't really see what they do want.
Ummm, I'm not so sure about that.
May's deal crosses the DUP's only serious red line. Remain, by default, does not. They want to leave, sure, but not if it involves any kind of customs or regulatory border in the Irish Sea.
Give TM time and political space remain is looking the most likely via a second referendum, maybe attached to the meaningful vote. It would be her final act and put ERG to the sword
That said, it would be an absolute, inexcusable dereliction of duty if Corbyn and McDonnell and Starmer weren't promising the DUP a moon on a stick right now to peel them off.
Imagine, nailing May with a VONC on the last day of term before Christmas.
The timing would be glorious. It would mean a VoC required by 3rd January or else an election.
I suspect that there would be a considerable kick-back by voters against a silly stunt like that.
If the opportunity presents itself to bring down the government, you take it. I mean, sure, it'll ruin Parliament's christmas, but I'm not sure anyone else will be that bothered as they tuck into their fifteenth slice of turkey and custard pie.
Custard pie? Now I'm thinking you might be based in Moscow... It's Christmas pud over here comrade!
In theory, at least. In practice I've not known anyone have an appetite for it after a full turkey dinner. Lemon sorbet would be a more sensible choice to follow the main meal.
Is stopBoris something every PBer can actually agree on?
No. I have money on Boris as next Tory leader, and have had for a long time. Besides, he'd make an amusing LOTO.
If May keeps her promise, the next leader will come in as PM, with a runup to the election. That makes it a LOT less likely that it will be Boris, a failed FS FFS.
Not if Labour carry a VoNC and can then win a VoC themselves. Jezza could be PM for a few weeks at least before having to call a GE. Unlikely, but not impossible.
The Guardian reporting that Sebastian Kurz, the Austrian chancellor, has said the EU may call an emergency summit in January to agree 'additional assurances' which could be attached to the political declaration on future relations, addressing concerns of mps. Austria holds the rotating presidency of the EU
That's nice of him. Assurances will definitely sway those committed to remain, no deal, a GE, or legally binding changes.
That said, it would be an absolute, inexcusable dereliction of duty if Corbyn and McDonnell and Starmer weren't promising the DUP a moon on a stick right now to peel them off.
Imagine, nailing May with a VONC on the last day of term before Christmas.
At two of those three want a United Ireland and they are so ideologically driven, it won’t occur to them to offer the DUP an olive branch and the DUP wouldn’t believe them if they did.
I have no doubt Labour are perfectly willing to meet the DUP's demands. It's mostly a question of tactics. Would they give up their vice-like grasp on Mrs May's short and curlies in exchange for a promise of no backstop? A promise they surely know Mr Corbyn cannot meaningfully deliver?
The only way I can see the DUP backing Labour is to sabotage May’s backstop and make it a straight choice between no deal or no Brexit.
A Labour government, especially one in hock to the LibDems, Plaid, and the SNP, is not going to go for No Deal under any circumstances, so it would be the current Withdrawal Agreement or Revoke, neither of which the DUP wants. In fact, I don't really see what they do want.
Ummm, I'm not so sure about that.
May's deal crosses the DUP's only serious red line. Remain, by default, does not. They want to leave, sure, but not if it involves any kind of customs or regulatory border in the Irish Sea.
Yeah, they might go for Revoke, although they've repeatedly said they want Brexit.
I sense that the DUP are among the many people trying to find a way to row back without loss of face.
The DUP's Brexit stance was based on the assumption it would cleave NI away from the Republic of Ireland.
What May's negotiation has delivered is pretty much the exact opposite of what they wanted.
That said, it would be an absolute, inexcusable dereliction of duty if Corbyn and McDonnell and Starmer weren't promising the DUP a moon on a stick right now to peel them off.
Imagine, nailing May with a VONC on the last day of term before Christmas.
At two of those three want a United Ireland and they are so ideologically driven, it won’t occur to them to offer the DUP an olive branch and the DUP wouldn’t believe them if they did.
I have no doubt Labour are perfectly willing to meet the DUP's demands. It's mostly a question of tactics. Would they give up their vice-like grasp on Mrs May's short and curlies in exchange for a promise of no backstop? A promise they surely know Mr Corbyn cannot meaningfully deliver?
The only way I can see the DUP backing Labour is to sabotage May’s backstop and make it a straight choice between no deal or no Brexit.
A Labour government, especially one in hock to the LibDems, Plaid, and the SNP, is not going to go for No Deal under any circumstances, so it would be the current Withdrawal Agreement or Revoke, neither of which the DUP wants. In fact, I don't really see what they do want.
I agree, most of the ERG were in that 117 and should get Boris on the final ballot even if a Dealer gets most MPs and he likely wins that final ballot as like Corbyn and unlike May he is much more popular with the party membership than his party's MPs.
Notice May today said she would step down for a new Tory leader by the 2022 general election if Parliament lasts the course but did not rule out leading the party at a snap general election if she loses a VONC in the Commons
Which is why the Tories should have deposed her when they had the chance. 2019 remains the hot favourite for a GE on Betfair and if it happens, they are going into the next GE with a proven voter repellent at the helm.
BoJo may be unpopular amongst his colleagues and the PB cognoscenti, but I think he has a better chance of beating Corbyn in a GE.
If there's an early election, the question of who is leader will be the least of the party's worries compared with the splits on No Deal.
If there's an election, the party, somehow, needs a manifesto.
Exactly. And one which mentions Brexit somewhere.
Brexit means brexit.
Problem solved. That is essentially what Labour are already doing as well.
Prime Minister Theresa May has said she will not lead the Conservative Party into the next general election. She said the party would prefer to "to go into that election with another leader", as she arrived in Brussels for an EU summit.
Has she changed her mind since yesterday when she said she was standing down within 12 months?
The Guardian reporting that Sebastian Kurz, the Austrian chancellor, has said the EU may call an emergency summit in January to agree 'additional assurances' which could be attached to the political declaration on future relations, addressing concerns of mps. Austria holds the rotating presidency of the EU
That's nice of him. Assurances will definitely sway those committed to remain, no deal, a GE, or legally binding changes.
It looks like a move to keep the issue going into January with 'tempus fugit'
I agree, most of the ERG were in that 117 and should get Boris on the final ballot even if a Dealer gets most MPs and he likely wins that final ballot as like Corbyn and unlike May he is much more popular with the party membership than his party's MPs.
Notice May today said she would step down for a new Tory leader by the 2022 general election if Parliament lasts the course but did not rule out leading the party at a snap general election if she loses a VONC in the Commons
Which is why the Tories should have deposed her when they had the chance. 2019 remains the hot favourite for a GE on Betfair and if it happens, they are going into the next GE with a proven voter repellent at the helm.
BoJo may be unpopular amongst his colleagues and the PB cognoscenti, but I think he has a better chance of beating Corbyn in a GE.
Have the odds on an early general election shortened in the last 48 hours? They should have,
All it takes now is for - the DUP to fail to support the Government in a VONC, in the hope that (despite her comments today) May will then be persuaded to fall on her sword and be replaced by a new Tory leader they can back to form a new government in the hope of a change of direction - May to confound them by preferring to lead the Conservatives into an avoidable GE. The DUP could hardly come back with the tail between their legs and back May in a second vote of confidence within the 14 days period of grace.
Before last night, May could have been forced out by Tory MPs and that scenario averted. Now she is her own master (or mistress). This is what you get when a politician treats her own personal political career as being synonymous with the national interest.
That said, it would be an absolute, inexcusable dereliction of duty if Corbyn and McDonnell and Starmer weren't promising the DUP a moon on a stick right now to peel them off.
Imagine, nailing May with a VONC on the last day of term before Christmas.
The timing would be glorious. It would mean a VoC required by 3rd January or else an election.
I suspect that there would be a considerable kick-back by voters against a silly stunt like that.
If the opportunity presents itself to bring down the government, you take it. I mean, sure, it'll ruin Parliament's christmas, but I'm not sure anyone else will be that bothered as they tuck into their fifteenth slice of turkey and custard pie.
Custard pie? Now I'm thinking you might be based in Moscow... It's Christmas pud over here comrade!
In theory, at least. In practice I've not known anyone have an appetite for it after a full turkey dinner. Lemon sorbet would be a more sensible choice to follow the main meal.
I have never not managed Christmas pud after Turkey and all the trimmings.
That said, it would be an absolute, inexcusable dereliction of duty if Corbyn and McDonnell and Starmer weren't promising the DUP a moon on a stick right now to peel them off.
Imagine, nailing May with a VONC on the last day of term before Christmas.
At two of those three want a United Ireland and they are so ideologically driven, it won’t occur to them to offer the DUP an olive branch and the DUP wouldn’t believe them if they did.
I have no doubt Labour are perfectly willing to meet the DUP's demands. It's mostly a question of tactics. Would they give up their vice-like grasp on Mrs May's short and curlies in exchange for a promise of no backstop? A promise they surely know Mr Corbyn cannot meaningfully deliver?
The only way I can see the DUP backing Labour is to sabotage May’s backstop and make it a straight choice between no deal or no Brexit.
A Labour government, especially one in hock to the LibDems, Plaid, and the SNP, is not going to go for No Deal under any circumstances, so it would be the current Withdrawal Agreement or Revoke, neither of which the DUP wants. In fact, I don't really see what they do want.
Ummm, I'm not so sure about that.
May's deal crosses the DUP's only serious red line. Remain, by default, does not. They want to leave, sure, but not if it involves any kind of customs or regulatory border in the Irish Sea.
Yeah, they might go for Revoke, although they've repeatedly said they want Brexit.
I sense that the DUP are one of the many people trying to find a way to row back without loss of face.
The DUP's Brexit stance was based on the assumption it would cleave NI away from the Republic of Ireland.
What May's negotiation has delivered is pretty much the exact opposite of what they wanted.
A strong incentive for me to retain my Tory membership...... anyone but Boris (well and a few others)
You'd better hope than the handover happens at a time of peace and tranquility, because as sure as eggs is eggs the members aren't going to get a look in if we have to switch PMs whilst this perpetual crisis is ongoing.
Prime Minister Theresa May has said she will not lead the Conservative Party into the next general election. She said the party would prefer to "to go into that election with another leader", as she arrived in Brussels for an EU summit.
Has she changed her mind since yesterday when she said she was standing down within 12 months?
Am I reading that wrong? They are angry we are not getting no deal (or a much harder deal) including that we are trying to spook people with our lack of preparedness for no deal, and so they will...cause problems on something which involves no deal preparations? That can't beright
The Guardian reporting that Sebastian Kurz, the Austrian chancellor, has said the EU may call an emergency summit in January to agree 'additional assurances' which could be attached to the political declaration on future relations, addressing concerns of mps. Austria holds the rotating presidency of the EU
That's nice of him. Assurances will definitely sway those committed to remain, no deal, a GE, or legally binding changes.
It looks like a move to keep the issue going into January with 'tempus fugit'
Busywork, something designed to maintain the illusion of Mrs May doing something useful as we run down the clock to Jan 21st.
Prime Minister Theresa May has said she will not lead the Conservative Party into the next general election. She said the party would prefer to "to go into that election with another leader", as she arrived in Brussels for an EU summit.
Has she changed her mind since yesterday when she said she was standing down within 12 months?
That said, it would be an absolute, inexcusable dereliction of duty if Corbyn and McDonnell and Starmer weren't promising the DUP a moon on a stick right now to peel them off.
Imagine, nailing May with a VONC on the last day of term before Christmas.
The timing would be glorious. It would mean a VoC required by 3rd January or else an election.
I suspect that there would be a considerable kick-back by voters against a silly stunt like that.
If the opportunity presents itself to bring down the government, you take it. I mean, sure, it'll ruin Parliament's christmas, but I'm not sure anyone else will be that bothered as they tuck into their fifteenth slice of turkey and custard pie.
Custard pie? Now I'm thinking you might be based in Moscow... It's Christmas pud over here comrade!
In theory, at least. In practice I've not known anyone have an appetite for it after a full turkey dinner. Lemon sorbet would be a more sensible choice to follow the main meal.
I have never not managed Christmas pud after Turkey and all the trimmings.
If trimmings must be sacrificed to ensure that, then so be it.
I agree, most of the ERG were in that 117 and should get Boris on the final ballot even if a Dealer gets most MPs and he likely wins that final ballot as like Corbyn and unlike May he is much more popular with the party membership than his party's MPs.
Notice May today said she would step down for a new Tory leader by the 2022 general election if Parliament lasts the course but did not rule out leading the party at a snap general election if she loses a VONC in the Commons
Which is why the Tories should have deposed her when they had the chance. 2019 remains the hot favourite for a GE on Betfair and if it happens, they are going into the next GE with a proven voter repellent at the helm.
BoJo may be unpopular amongst his colleagues and the PB cognoscenti, but I think he has a better chance of beating Corbyn in a GE.
Have the odds on an early general election shortened in the last 48 hours? They should have,
All it takes now is for - the DUP to fail to support the Government in a VONC, in the hope that (despite her comments today) May will then be persuaded to fall on her sword and be replaced by a new Tory leader they can back to form a new government in the hope of a change of direction - May to confound them by preferring to lead the Conservatives into an avoidable GE. The DUP could hardly come back with the tail between their legs and back May in a second vote of confidence within the 14 days period of grace.
Before last night, May could have been forced out by Tory MPs and that scenario averted. Now she is her own master (or mistress). This is what you get when a politician treats her own personal political career as being synonymous with the national interest.
The Lib Dems could offer a temporary confidence and supply agreement in return for a Deal/Remain referendum.
A strong incentive for me to retain my Tory membership...... anyone but Boris (well and a few others)
You'd better hope than the handover happens at a time of peace and tranquility, because as sure as eggs is eggs the members aren't going to get a look in if we have to switch PMs whilst this perpetual crisis is ongoing.
Can't a see final two Tory Remainer candidate stepping aside to allow a BoJo coronation somehow.
That said, it would be an absolute, inexcusable dereliction of duty if Corbyn and McDonnell and Starmer weren't promising the DUP a moon on a stick right now to peel them off.
Imagine, nailing May with a VONC on the last day of term before Christmas.
At two of those three want a United Ireland and they are so ideologically driven, it won’t occur to them to offer the DUP an olive branch and the DUP wouldn’t believe them if they did.
I have no doubt Labour are perfectly willing to meet the DUP's demands. It's mostly a question of tactics. Would they give up their vice-like grasp on Mrs May's short and curlies in exchange for a promise of no backstop? A promise they surely know Mr Corbyn cannot meaningfully deliver?
The only way I can see the DUP backing Labour is to sabotage May’s backstop and make it a straight choice between no deal or no Brexit.
A Labour government, especially one in hock to the LibDems, Plaid, and the SNP, is not going to go for No Deal under any circumstances, so it would be the current Withdrawal Agreement or Revoke, neither of which the DUP wants. In fact, I don't really see what they do want.
It’s more what they don’t want isn’t it ? They don’t want the backstop and they won’t allow any differentiation between NI and the rest of the U.K. Brexit or no Brexit is rather secondary to that. If siding with Labour is the only way to stop the backstop, that’s what I think they’ll do.
Is stopBoris something every PBer can actually agree on?
No. I have money on Boris as next Tory leader, and have had for a long time. Besides, he'd make an amusing LOTO.
If May keeps her promise, the next leader will come in as PM, with a runup to the election. That makes it a LOT less likely that it will be Boris, a failed FS FFS.
Not if Labour carry a VoNC and can then win a VoC themselves. Jezza could be PM for a few weeks at least before having to call a GE. Unlikely, but not impossible.
Unlikely, as you say. Betting on Boris for next leader means seeing him take over as next PM; anyone who thinks that is likely needs to rewatch his contribution to last week's Brexit debate - and more specifically his colleagues' reactions to it.
That said, it would be an absolute, inexcusable dereliction of duty if Corbyn and McDonnell and Starmer weren't promising the DUP a moon on a stick right now to peel them off.
Imagine, nailing May with a VONC on the last day of term before Christmas.
At two of those three want a United Ireland and they are so ideologically driven, it won’t occur to them to offer the DUP an olive branch and the DUP wouldn’t believe them if they did.
I have no doubt Labour are perfectly willing to meet the DUP's demands. It's mostly a question of tactics. Would they give up their vice-like grasp on Mrs May's short and curlies in exchange for a promise of no backstop? A promise they surely know Mr Corbyn cannot meaningfully deliver?
The only way I can see the DUP backing Labour is to sabotage May’s backstop and make it a straight choice between no deal or no Brexit.
A Labour government, especially one in hock to the LibDems, Plaid, and the SNP, is not going to go for No Deal under any circumstances, so it would be the current Withdrawal Agreement or Revoke, neither of which the DUP wants. In fact, I don't really see what they do want.
Ummm, I'm not so sure about that.
May's deal crosses the DUP's only serious red line. Remain, by default, does not. They want to leave, sure, but not if it involves any kind of customs or regulatory border in the Irish Sea.
Yeah, they might go for Revoke, although they've repeatedly said they want Brexit.
I sense that the DUP are one of the many people trying to find a way to row back without loss of face.
The DUP's Brexit stance was based on the assumption it would cleave NI away from the Republic of Ireland.
What May's negotiation has delivered is pretty much the exact opposite of what they wanted.
And is very popular in NI outside the DUP
Because it ties NI very closely to the Republic and the EU. Which, again, is the exact opposite of what they wanted.
The DUP have trapped themselves. They can never support Mrs May's deal, but they also can't VONC May because it's the only leverage they have to get themselves out of this mess.
That said, it would be an absolute, inexcusable dereliction of duty if Corbyn and McDonnell and Starmer weren't promising the DUP a moon on a stick right now to peel them off.
Imagine, nailing May with a VONC on the last day of term before Christmas.
At two of those three want a United Ireland and they are so ideologically driven, it won’t occur to them to offer the DUP an olive branch and the DUP wouldn’t believe them if they did.
I have no doubt Labour are perfectly willing to meet the DUP's demands. It's mostly a question of tactics. Would they give up their vice-like grasp on Mrs May's short and curlies in exchange for a promise of no backstop? A promise they surely know Mr Corbyn cannot meaningfully deliver?
Yes, what would be in it for the DUP?
That's always a fun game. Jez invites Arlene round for a cuppa. "Let's make this happen", he says, "Name your price."
Am I reading that wrong? They are angry we are not getting no deal (or a much harder deal) including that we are trying to spook people with our lack of preparedness for no deal, and so they will...cause problems on something which involves no deal preparations? That can't beright
That said, it would be an absolute, inexcusable dereliction of duty if Corbyn and McDonnell and Starmer weren't promising the DUP a moon on a stick right now to peel them off.
Imagine, nailing May with a VONC on the last day of term before Christmas.
The timing would be glorious. It would mean a VoC required by 3rd January or else an election.
I suspect that there would be a considerable kick-back by voters against a silly stunt like that.
If the opportunity presents itself to bring down the government, you take it. I mean, sure, it'll ruin Parliament's christmas, but I'm not sure anyone else will be that bothered as they tuck into their fifteenth slice of turkey and custard pie.
Custard pie? Now I'm thinking you might be based in Moscow... It's Christmas pud over here comrade!
In theory, at least. In practice I've not known anyone have an appetite for it after a full turkey dinner. Lemon sorbet would be a more sensible choice to follow the main meal.
I have never not managed Christmas pud after Turkey and all the trimmings.
If trimmings must be sacrificed to ensure that, then so be it.
To be fair, we have cut back on starters in recent years - we limit ourselves to a few smoked salmon blinis before the main event these days.
Prime Minister Theresa May has said she will not lead the Conservative Party into the next general election. She said the party would prefer to "to go into that election with another leader", as she arrived in Brussels for an EU summit.
Has she changed her mind since yesterday when she said she was standing down within 12 months?
That said, it would be an absolute, inexcusable dereliction of duty if Corbyn and McDonnell and Starmer weren't promising the DUP a moon on a stick right now to peel them off.
Imagine, nailing May with a VONC on the last day of term before Christmas.
At two of those three want a United Ireland and they are so ideologically driven, it won’t occur to them to offer the DUP an olive branch and the DUP wouldn’t believe them if they did.
I have no doubt Labour are perfectly willing to meet the DUP's demands. It's mostly a question of tactics. Would they give up their vice-like grasp on Mrs May's short and curlies in exchange for a promise of no backstop? A promise they surely know Mr Corbyn cannot meaningfully deliver?
The only way I can see the DUP backing Labour is to sabotage May’s backstop and make it a straight choice between no deal or no Brexit.
A Labour government, especially one in hock to the LibDems, Plaid, and the SNP, is not going to go for No Deal under any circumstances, so it would be the current Withdrawal Agreement or Revoke, neither of which the DUP wants. In fact, I don't really see what they do want.
It’s more what they don’t want isn’t it ? They don’t want the backstop and they won’t allow any differentiation between NI and the rest of the U.K. Brexit or no Brexit is rather secondary to that. If siding with Labour is the only way to stop the backstop, that’s what I think they’ll do.
The clever strategy for Labour in that scenario would be to 'allow' the LibDems and SNP to force a second referendum upon them.
I agree, most of the ERG were in that 117 and should get Boris on the final ballot even if a Dealer gets most MPs and he likely wins that final ballot as like Corbyn and unlike May he is much more popular with the party membership than his party's MPs.
Notice May today said she would step down for a new Tory leader by the 2022 general election if Parliament lasts the course but did not rule out leading the party at a snap general election if she loses a VONC in the Commons
Which is why the Tories should have deposed her when they had the chance. 2019 remains the hot favourite for a GE on Betfair and if it happens, they are going into the next GE with a proven voter repellent at the helm.
BoJo may be unpopular amongst his colleagues and the PB cognoscenti, but I think he has a better chance of beating Corbyn in a GE.
Have the odds on an early general election shortened in the last 48 hours? They should have,
All it takes now is for - the DUP to fail to support the Government in a VONC, in the hope that (despite her comments today) May will then be persuaded to fall on her sword and be replaced by a new Tory leader they can back to form a new government in the hope of a change of direction - May to confound them by preferring to lead the Conservatives into an avoidable GE. The DUP could hardly come back with the tail between their legs and back May in a second vote of confidence within the 14 days period of grace.
Before last night, May could have been forced out by Tory MPs and that scenario averted. Now she is her own master (or mistress). This is what you get when a politician treats her own personal political career as being synonymous with the national interest.
I got on at 2.86 on BF exchange on 17/11. Currently sitting at 2.48.
Prime Minister Theresa May has said she will not lead the Conservative Party into the next general election. She said the party would prefer to "to go into that election with another leader", as she arrived in Brussels for an EU summit.
Has she changed her mind since yesterday when she said she was standing down within 12 months?
Not sure she did say that.
Nor did she say that she would be standing down within 12 months in late June 2017, but to cling on then she was for a while quite happy to give that impression.
That said, it would be an absolute, inexcusable dereliction of duty if Corbyn and McDonnell and Starmer weren't promising the DUP a moon on a stick right now to peel them off.
Imagine, nailing May with a VONC on the last day of term before Christmas.
At two of those three want a United Ireland and they are so ideologically driven, it won’t occur to them to offer the DUP an olive branch and the DUP wouldn’t believe them if they did.
I have no doubt Labour are perfectly willing to meet the DUP's demands. It's mostly a question of tactics. Would they give up their vice-like grasp on Mrs May's short and curlies in exchange for a promise of no backstop? A promise they surely know Mr Corbyn cannot meaningfully deliver?
Yes, what would be in it for the DUP?
That's always a fun game. Jez invites Arlene round for a cuppa. "Let's make this happen", he says, "Name your price."
What does she ask for?
Unicorns.
Don't think it'll work with Arlene. I think she shoots unicorns and mounts them on her wall.
I am short of JC in the Next PM market and no longer like my position. Why would he not try to do a deal with the DUP in order to enter number 10 without a GE? I would if I were him. It's a chance to be Prime Minister for heaven's sake. Prime Minister!
That said, it would be an absolute, inexcusable dereliction of duty if Corbyn and McDonnell and Starmer weren't promising the DUP a moon on a stick right now to peel them off.
Imagine, nailing May with a VONC on the last day of term before Christmas.
At two of those three want a United Ireland and they are so ideologically driven, it won’t occur to them to offer the DUP an olive branch and the DUP wouldn’t believe them if they did.
I have no doubt Labour are perfectly willing to meet the DUP's demands. It's mostly a question of tactics. Would they give up their vice-like grasp on Mrs May's short and curlies in exchange for a promise of no backstop? A promise they surely know Mr Corbyn cannot meaningfully deliver?
Yes, what would be in it for the DUP?
That's always a fun game. Jez invites Arlene round for a cuppa. "Let's make this happen", he says, "Name your price."
What does she ask for?
Unicorns.
Fair point - there must be some out there somewhere.
Prime Minister Theresa May has said she will not lead the Conservative Party into the next general election. She said the party would prefer to "to go into that election with another leader", as she arrived in Brussels for an EU summit.
Has she changed her mind since yesterday when she said she was standing down within 12 months?
Not sure she did say that.
That was the impression given by various reports.
Maybe confusion with she cannot be challenged for 12 months
That said, it would be an absolute, inexcusable dereliction of duty if Corbyn and McDonnell and Starmer weren't promising the DUP a moon on a stick right now to peel them off.
Imagine, nailing May with a VONC on the last day of term before Christmas.
At two of those three want a United Ireland and they are so ideologically driven, it won’t occur to them to offer the DUP an olive branch and the DUP wouldn’t believe them if they did.
I have no doubt Labour are perfectly willing to meet the DUP's demands. It's mostly a question of tactics. Would they give up their vice-like grasp on Mrs May's short and curlies in exchange for a promise of no backstop? A promise they surely know Mr Corbyn cannot meaningfully deliver?
The only way I can see the DUP backing Labour is to sabotage May’s backstop and make it a straight choice between no deal or no Brexit.
A Labour government, especially one in hock to the LibDems, Plaid, and the SNP, is not going to go for No Deal under any circumstances, so it would be the current Withdrawal Agreement or Revoke, neither of which the DUP wants. In fact, I don't really see what they do want.
It’s more what they don’t want isn’t it ? They don’t want the backstop and they won’t allow any differentiation between NI and the rest of the U.K. Brexit or no Brexit is rather secondary to that. If siding with Labour is the only way to stop the backstop, that’s what I think they’ll do.
The clever strategy for Labour in that scenario would be to 'allow' the LibDems and SNP to force a second referendum upon them.
If there is a second referendum, Labour have to support one side of the question and actually have a policy - which they don’t actually have. I wouldn’t have thought they’d want to found out before forcing an election.
I am short of JC in the Next PM market and no longer like my position. Why would he not try to do a deal with the DUP, the SNP, the LDs, PC, the Green party, and a few independents in order to enter number 10 without a GE? I would if I were him. It's a chance to be Prime Minister for heaven's sake. Prime Minister!
Just edited in bold above to complete Jezza's challenge.
That said, it would be an absolute, inexcusable dereliction of duty if Corbyn and McDonnell and Starmer weren't promising the DUP a moon on a stick right now to peel them off.
Imagine, nailing May with a VONC on the last day of term before Christmas.
At two of those three want a United Ireland and they are so ideologically driven, it won’t occur to them to offer the DUP an olive branch and the DUP wouldn’t believe them if they did.
I have no doubt Labour are perfectly willing to meet the DUP's demands. It's mostly a question of tactics. Would they give up their vice-like grasp on Mrs May's short and curlies in exchange for a promise of no backstop? A promise they surely know Mr Corbyn cannot meaningfully deliver?
The only way I can see the DUP backing Labour is to sabotage May’s backstop and make it a straight choice between no deal or no Brexit.
A Labour government, especially one in hock to the LibDems, Plaid, and the SNP, is not going to go for No Deal under any circumstances, so it would be the current Withdrawal Agreement or Revoke, neither of which the DUP wants. In fact, I don't really see what they do want.
It’s more what they don’t want isn’t it ? They don’t want the backstop and they won’t allow any differentiation between NI and the rest of the U.K. Brexit or no Brexit is rather secondary to that. If siding with Labour is the only way to stop the backstop, that’s what I think they’ll do.
Yes but of course that means BINO and permanent Customs Union and likely Single Market too under PM Corbyn but the DUP can say that would apply to the whole UK rather than a backstop for NI only as now under the Deal
I thought May said she would not fight the GE in 2022. That means she would be able to fight an election that was earlier.
Apparently, she was very vague last night when MPs asked her if she'd lead them into an early election.
No-one is sure, as ever with her, whether she was deliberately trying to keep her options open, or if she's just incapable of saying something clearly.
I agree, most of the ERG were in that 117 and should get Boris on the final ballot even if a Dealer gets most MPs and he likely wins that final ballot as like Corbyn and unlike May he is much more popular with the party membership than his party's MPs.
Notice May today said she would step down for a new Tory leader by the 2022 general election if Parliament lasts the course but did not rule out leading the party at a snap general election if she loses a VONC in the Commons
Which is why the Tories should have deposed her when they had the chance. 2019 remains the hot favourite for a GE on Betfair and if it happens, they are going into the next GE with a proven voter repellent at the helm.
BoJo may be unpopular amongst his colleagues and the PB cognoscenti, but I think he has a better chance of beating Corbyn in a GE.
Have the odds on an early general election shortened in the last 48 hours? They should have,
All it takes now is for - the DUP to fail to support the Government in a VONC, in the hope that (despite her comments today) May will then be persuaded to fall on her sword and be replaced by a new Tory leader they can back to form a new government in the hope of a change of direction - May to confound them by preferring to lead the Conservatives into an avoidable GE. The DUP could hardly come back with the tail between their legs and back May in a second vote of confidence within the 14 days period of grace.
Before last night, May could have been forced out by Tory MPs and that scenario averted. Now she is her own master (or mistress). This is what you get when a politician treats her own personal political career as being synonymous with the national interest.
The Lib Dems could offer a temporary confidence and supply agreement in return for a Deal/Remain referendum.
I am short of JC in the Next PM market and no longer like my position. Why would he not try to do a deal with the DUP, the SNP, the LDs, PC, the Green party, and a few independents in order to enter number 10 without a GE? I would if I were him. It's a chance to be Prime Minister for heaven's sake. Prime Minister!
Just edited in bold above to complete Jezza's challenge.
I think Corbyn can reasonably expect the support of the LDs and and Plaid and the Greens. The SNP would need a sweetener. The DUP would need a cast iron guarantee that was more cast than the cast iron guarantee they got from May that she betrayed.
I am short of JC in the Next PM market and no longer like my position. Why would he not try to do a deal with the DUP, the SNP, the LDs, PC, the Green party, and a few independents in order to enter number 10 without a GE? I would if I were him. It's a chance to be Prime Minister for heaven's sake. Prime Minister!
Just edited in bold above to complete Jezza's challenge.
Indeed. And of course one should never make the mistake of assuming that the SNP are friends of Labour, or vice versa for that matter.
I agree, most of the ERG were in that 117 and should get Boris on the final ballot even if a Dealer gets most MPs and he likely wins that final ballot as like Corbyn and unlike May he is much more popular with the party membership than his party's MPs.
Notice May today said she would step down for a new Tory leader by the 2022 general election if Parliament lasts the course but did not rule out leading the party at a snap general election if she loses a VONC in the Commons
Which is why the Tories should have deposed her when they had the chance. 2019 remains the hot favourite for a GE on Betfair and if it happens, they are going into the next GE with a proven voter repellent at the helm.
BoJo may be unpopular amongst his colleagues and the PB cognoscenti, but I think he has a better chance of beating Corbyn in a GE.
I think May v Corbyn next time could be a repeat of February 1974 but Boris v Corbyn a repeat of 2015
I thought May said she would not fight the GE in 2022. That means she would be able to fight an election that was earlier.
I didn't think it was so much that she would be able to as in the event of one very ahead of schedule she would have to unless somehow they were able to immediately have an interim leader and a coherent Brexit message to get behind. Any Tory MP who could not see that there is a strong possibility of a 2019 GE and that if they didn't replace the leader now they would struggle to do so later in the event of the government being brought down, has not been thinking much.
Four local by-elections today - a Con defence in Dunfries, and Lab defences in Haringey, Harlow, and Middlesbrough. There was one election yesterday and it was a stunner - Ashfield Independent (the Jason Zadrozny party) gain from Labour.
I am short of JC in the Next PM market and no longer like my position. Why would he not try to do a deal with the DUP, the SNP, the LDs, PC, the Green party, and a few independents in order to enter number 10 without a GE? I would if I were him. It's a chance to be Prime Minister for heaven's sake. Prime Minister!
Just edited in bold above to complete Jezza's challenge.
It would not be a very stable government, but it doesn't have to last very long.
I am short of JC in the Next PM market and no longer like my position. Why would he not try to do a deal with the DUP, the SNP, the LDs, PC, the Green party, and a few independents in order to enter number 10 without a GE? I would if I were him. It's a chance to be Prime Minister for heaven's sake. Prime Minister!
Just edited in bold above to complete Jezza's challenge.
It would not be a very stable government, but it doesn't have to last very long.
By the way, I stand by that, if there is an election soon, Brexit still won't feature much.
Partly because, as we saw in 2017, it's just not that interesting for people outside the "Westminster bubble". But also because it would be in neither of the big parties' interests to campaign much on it: Labour because it splits their voters, and the Tories because they would probably be desperate to avoid reminding voters of the Brexit-related chaos that led to the election if possible.
The election would be decided on "traditional" issues rather than Brexit IMO.
That said, it would be an absolute, inexcusable dereliction of duty if Corbyn and McDonnell and Starmer weren't promising the DUP a moon on a stick right now to peel them off.
Imagine, nailing May with a VONC on the last day of term before Christmas.
At two of those three want a United Ireland and they are so ideologically driven, it won’t occur to them to offer the DUP an olive branch and the DUP wouldn’t believe them if they did.
I have no doubt Labour are perfectly willing to meet the DUP's demands. It's mostly a question of tactics. Would they give up their vice-like grasp on Mrs May's short and curlies in exchange for a promise of no backstop? A promise they surely know Mr Corbyn cannot meaningfully deliver?
The only way I can see the DUP backing Labour is to sabotage May’s backstop and make it a straight choice between no deal or no Brexit.
A Labour government, especially one in hock to the LibDems, Plaid, and the SNP, is not going to go for No Deal under any circumstances, so it would be the current Withdrawal Agreement or Revoke, neither of which the DUP wants. In fact, I don't really see what they do want.
It’s more what they don’t want isn’t it ? They don’t want the backstop and they won’t allow any differentiation between NI and the rest of the U.K. Brexit or no Brexit is rather secondary to that. If siding with Labour is the only way to stop the backstop, that’s what I think they’ll do.
The clever strategy for Labour in that scenario would be to 'allow' the LibDems and SNP to force a second referendum upon them.
If there is a second referendum, Labour have to support one side of the question and actually have a policy - which they don’t actually have. I wouldn’t have thought they’d want to found out before forcing an election.
Which is why the preference is for GE, but as a fall back position and with remain increasing in support, they might as well take the plunge and go all out for remain in a referendum.
That said, it would be an absolute, inexcusable dereliction of duty if Corbyn and McDonnell and Starmer weren't promising the DUP a moon on a stick right now to peel them off.
Imagine, nailing May with a VONC on the last day of term before Christmas.
At two of those three want a United Ireland and they are so ideologically driven, it won’t occur to them to offer the DUP an olive branch and the DUP wouldn’t believe them if they did.
I have no doubt Labour are perfectly willing to meet the DUP's demands. It's mostly a question of tactics. Would they give up their vice-like grasp on Mrs May's short and curlies in exchange for a promise of no backstop? A promise they surely know Mr Corbyn cannot meaningfully deliver?
The only way I can see the DUP backing Labour is to sabotage May’s backstop and make it a straight choice between no deal or no Brexit.
A Labour government, especially one in hock to the LibDems, Plaid, and the SNP, is not going to go for No Deal under any circumstances, so it would be the current Withdrawal Agreement or Revoke, neither of which the DUP wants. In fact, I don't really see what they do want.
It’s more what they don’t want isn’t it ? They don’t want the backstop and they won’t allow any differentiation between NI and the rest of the U.K. Brexit or no Brexit is rather secondary to that. If siding with Labour is the only way to stop the backstop, that’s what I think they’ll do.
Yes but of course that means BINO and permanent Customs Union and likely Single Market too under PM Corbyn but the DUP can say that would apply to the whole UK rather than a backstop for NI only as now under the Deal
I don’t think the DUP care about that or no deal or no Brexit. NI voted Remain in the referendum and they’ve supported Leave because that was the U.K. position. As long as there is no differentiation between NI and the rest of the U.K. at any stage, the DUP will be happy.
Is stopBoris something every PBer can actually agree on?
No , I am with HYFUD . Boris beats Corbyn IMO.
Not sure May or any of the other contenders will. If he gets to the Conservative members ballot , I think he wins.
Genuine question. Why do you think he beats corbyn but say Javid doesn’t?
I would have thought corbyn could easily dismantle Boris with all his baggage, his “of the few rather than the many” background etc
Because in their own way they are both populist. I honestly believe to members of the public , who are not interested in politics. Boris Johnson has cut through with those , who only tune in at general election time,with no party allegiance . Javid is a good cabinet Minster but would not reach those mentioned above.
Yes Boris is the UK Trump or Berlusconi, a populist who can rouse the masses, Javid the UK's Marco Rubio, ie he looks better on paper then in practice
Re tory leadership, Raab has really gone for a walk in the market. Has he been overheard saying something superficially appealing that on closer scrutiny is facile and self-serving?
That said, it would be an absolute, inexcusable dereliction of duty if Corbyn and McDonnell and Starmer weren't promising the DUP a moon on a stick right now to peel them off.
Imagine, nailing May with a VONC on the last day of term before Christmas.
At two of those three want a United Ireland and they are so ideologically driven, it won’t occur to them to offer the DUP an olive branch and the DUP wouldn’t believe them if they did.
I have no doubt Labour are perfectly willing to meet the DUP's demands. It's mostly a question of tactics. Would they give up their vice-like grasp on Mrs May's short and curlies in exchange for a promise of no backstop? A promise they surely know Mr Corbyn cannot meaningfully deliver?
The only way I can see the DUP backing Labour is to sabotage May’s backstop and make it a straight choice between no deal or no Brexit.
A Labour government, especially one in hock to the LibDems, Plaid, and the SNP, is not going to go for No Deal under any circumstances, so it would be the current Withdrawal Agreement or Revoke, neither of which the DUP wants. In fact, I don't really see what they do want.
It’s more what they don’t want isn’t it ? They don’t want the backstop and they won’t allow any differentiation between NI and the rest of the U.K. Brexit or no Brexit is rather secondary to that. If siding with Labour is the only way to stop the backstop, that’s what I think they’ll do.
The clever strategy for Labour in that scenario would be to 'allow' the LibDems and SNP to force a second referendum upon them.
If there is a second referendum, Labour have to support one side of the question and actually have a policy - which they don’t actually have. I wouldn’t have thought they’d want to found out before forcing an election.
Which is why the preference is for GE, but as a fall back position and with remain increasing in support, they might as well take the plunge and go all out for remain in a referendum.
Re tory leadership, Raab has really gone for a walk in the market. Has he been overheard saying something superficially appealing that on closer scrutiny is facile and self serving?
Well, he decided to remind people yesterday about how wages are still lower than when the Tories took office, almost 9 years ago...
That said, it would be an absolute, inexcusable dereliction of duty if Corbyn and McDonnell and Starmer weren't promising the DUP a moon on a stick right now to peel them off.
Imagine, nailing May with a VONC on the last day of term before Christmas.
At two of those three want a United Ireland and they are so ideologically driven, it won’t occur to them to offer the DUP an olive branch and the DUP wouldn’t believe them if they did.
I have no doubt Labour are perfectly willing to meet the DUP's demands. It's mostly a question of tactics. Would they give up their vice-like grasp on Mrs May's short and curlies in exchange for a promise of no backstop? A promise they surely know Mr Corbyn cannot meaningfully deliver?
The only way I can see the DUP backing Labour is to sabotage May’s backstop and make it a straight choice between no deal or no Brexit.
A Labour government, especially one in hock to the LibDems, Plaid, and the SNP, is not going to go for No Deal under any circumstances, so it would be the current Withdrawal Agreement or Revoke, neither of which the DUP wants. In fact, I don't really see what they do want.
It’s more what they don’t want isn’t it ? They don’t want the backstop and they won’t allow any differentiation between NI and the rest of the U.K. Brexit or no Brexit is rather secondary to that. If siding with Labour is the only way to stop the backstop, that’s what I think they’ll do.
Yes but of course that means BINO and permanent Customs Union and likely Single Market too under PM Corbyn but the DUP can say that would apply to the whole UK rather than a backstop for NI only as now under the Deal
I don’t think the DUP care about that or no deal or no Brexit. NI voted Remain in the referendum and they’ve supported Leave because that was the U.K. position. As long as there is no differentiation between NI and the rest of the U.K. at any stage, the DUP will be happy.
BINO for the whole UK under PM Corbyn would be fine by the DUP as long as it avoids the need for the backstop, the Tories can then go full hard Brexit under Leader of the Opposition Boris Johnson
The Tories are running a three line whip all through next week.
So they clearly expect a VONC is a serious possibility. That tends to focus the minds. Discussions, I imagine, remain ongoing.
I think Labour should move the VONC anyway. Put the DUP on the spot. They know May cannot deliver what they ask, so get them to put their money where their mouth is.
That said, it would be an absolute, inexcusable dereliction of duty if Corbyn and McDonnell and Starmer weren't promising the DUP a moon on a stick right now to peel them off.
Imagine, nailing May with a VONC on the last day of term before Christmas.
At two of those three want a United Ireland and they are so ideologically driven, it won’t occur to them to offer the DUP an olive branch and the DUP wouldn’t believe them if they did.
I have no doubt Labour are perfectly willing to meet the DUP's demands. It's mostly a question of tactics. Would they give up their vice-like grasp on Mrs May's short and curlies in exchange for a promise of no backstop? A promise they surely know Mr Corbyn cannot meaningfully deliver?
The only way I can see the DUP backing Labour is to sabotage May’s backstop and make it a straight choice between no deal or no Brexit.
A Labour government, especially one in hock to the LibDems, Plaid, and the SNP, is not going to go for No Deal under any circumstances, so it would be the current Withdrawal Agreement or Revoke, neither of which the DUP wants. In fact, I don't really see what they do want.
It’s more what they don’t want isn’t it ? They don’t want the backstop and they won’t allow any differentiation between NI and the rest of the U.K. Brexit or no Brexit is rather secondary to that. If siding with Labour is the only way to stop the backstop, that’s what I think they’ll do.
Yes but of course that means BINO and permanent Customs Union and likely Single Market too under PM Corbyn but the DUP can say that would apply to the whole UK rather than a backstop for NI only as now under the Deal
I don’t think the DUP care about that or no deal or no Brexit. NI voted Remain in the referendum and they’ve supported Leave because that was the U.K. position. As long as there is no differentiation between NI and the rest of the U.K. at any stage, the DUP will be happy.
BINO for the whole UK under PM Corbyn would be fine by the DUP as long as it avoids the need for the backstop, the Tories can then go full hard Brexit under Leader of the Opposition Boris Johnson
Boris will never win a leadership election and if we ever get a Corbyn Gov, Brexit won’t matter. We’ll be well and truly ******
The Tories are running a three line whip all through next week.
So they clearly expect a VONC is a serious possibility. That tends to focus the minds. Discussions, I imagine, remain ongoing.
I think Labour should move the VONC anyway. Put the DUP on the spot. They know May cannot deliver what they ask, so get them to put their money where their mouth is.
The Tories are running a three line whip all through next week.
So they clearly expect a VONC is a serious possibility. That tends to focus the minds. Discussions, I imagine, remain ongoing.
I think Labour should move the VONC anyway. Put the DUP on the spot. They know May cannot deliver what they ask, so get them to put their money where their mouth is.
The DUP won't desert the Tories next week.
Probably not, but what harm in trying? It puts them and the ERG under pressure, it's not that embarrassing to not succeed, and they can always do it again when May fails to get anything substantive.
The Tories are running a three line whip all through next week.
So they clearly expect a VONC is a serious possibility. That tends to focus the minds. Discussions, I imagine, remain ongoing.
I think Labour should move the VONC anyway. Put the DUP on the spot. They know May cannot deliver what they ask, so get them to put their money where their mouth is.
The DUP won't desert the Tories next week.
Indeed not. Their position is clear - they will abandon the Conservatives if the WA, as it currently is constituted and worded, passes the Commons.
Prime Minister Theresa May has said she will not lead the Conservative Party into the next general election. She said the party would prefer to "to go into that election with another leader", as she arrived in Brussels for an EU summit.
And people say she's tin-eared!
She's reminding me a bit of Saga from The Bridge these days (though without Saga's problem-solving skills obvs.)
They even have the brown leather breeks in common!
Tessy would definitely go up in my estimation if she had a goose shit green 911.
The Tories are running a three line whip all through next week.
So they clearly expect a VONC is a serious possibility. That tends to focus the minds. Discussions, I imagine, remain ongoing.
I think Labour should move the VONC anyway. Put the DUP on the spot. They know May cannot deliver what they ask, so get them to put their money where their mouth is.
The DUP won't desert the Tories next week.
Probably not, but what harm in trying? It puts them and the ERG under pressure, it's not that embarrassing to not succeed, and they can always do it again when May fails to get anything substantive.
Precisely. Putting the pressure on the DUP and ERG essential to getting them to crack. Even if they don't expect the DUP to break now, forcing them to defend a position they know is ludicrous, to prop up a woman who betrayed them, will increase the chances of them breaking next time.
It's not like there's a moratorium on Parliamentary VONCs. Labour can, um, just ask Parliament to hold a second vote in January. They really have nothing to lose by going for it next week, and then again after the meaningful vote.
Yes Boris is the UK Trump or Berlusconi, a populist who can rouse the masses, Javid the UK's Marco Rubio, ie he looks better on paper then in practice.
Boris Johnson does have real appeal. He could well turn out to be the best Prime Minister we never had. Let's hope so anyway.
The Tories are running a three line whip all through next week.
So they clearly expect a VONC is a serious possibility. That tends to focus the minds. Discussions, I imagine, remain ongoing.
I think Labour should move the VONC anyway. Put the DUP on the spot. They know May cannot deliver what they ask, so get them to put their money where their mouth is.
The DUP won't desert the Tories next week.
Probably not, but what harm in trying? It puts them and the ERG under pressure, it's not that embarrassing to not succeed, and they can always do it again when May fails to get anything substantive.
Nah it is a no brainer for all Tories right now. I expect Labour to make the move after the meaningful vote
I cannot quite understand the logic of this. https://twitter.com/ChukaUmunna/status/1073257335496368128 No deal is too catastrophic to do, but we must allow a unicorn option which might permit no deal to therefore possibly happen? Sounds like an assumption that Remain has no chance of losing therefore it doesn't matter. Unless it is a clear option, eg the deal, no deal, I don't see how you can include it.
I cannot quite understand the logic of this. https://twitter.com/ChukaUmunna/status/1073257335496368128 No deal is too catastrophic to do, but we must allow a unicorn option which might permit no deal to therefore possibly happen? Sounds like an assumption that Remain has no chance of losing therefore it doesn't matter. Unless it is a clear option, eg the deal, no deal, I don't see how you can include it.
He's proposing an option he knows that none of Parliament, the Electoral Commission or the European Council will allow to be asked. You can look all magnificently democratic safe in the knowledge it can never happen.
I cannot quite understand the logic of this. https://twitter.com/ChukaUmunna/status/1073257335496368128 No deal is too catastrophic to do, but we must allow a unicorn option which might permit no deal to therefore possibly happen? Sounds like an assumption that Remain has no chance of losing therefore it doesn't matter. Unless it is a clear option, eg the deal, no deal, I don't see how you can include it.
I've never bought the idea of Chukka as the Peoples Choice.
I cannot quite understand the logic of this. https://twitter.com/ChukaUmunna/status/1073257335496368128 No deal is too catastrophic to do, but we must allow a unicorn option which might permit no deal to therefore possibly happen? Sounds like an assumption that Remain has no chance of losing therefore it doesn't matter. Unless it is a clear option, eg the deal, no deal, I don't see how you can include it.
He's proposing an option he knows that none of Parliament, the Electoral Commission or the European Council will allow to be asked. You can look all magnificently democratic safe in the knowledge it can never happen.
I suppose my point should really have been 'I cannot quite understand how he expects his stated position to be believed as logical'. He could do a little better disguising what why he is proposing such an option.
I cannot quite understand the logic of this. https://twitter.com/ChukaUmunna/status/1073257335496368128 No deal is too catastrophic to do, but we must allow a unicorn option which might permit no deal to therefore possibly happen? Sounds like an assumption that Remain has no chance of losing therefore it doesn't matter. Unless it is a clear option, eg the deal, no deal, I don't see how you can include it.
Canada might win that but is not an option without the backstop
I cannot quite understand the logic of this. https://twitter.com/ChukaUmunna/status/1073257335496368128 No deal is too catastrophic to do, but we must allow a unicorn option which might permit no deal to therefore possibly happen? Sounds like an assumption that Remain has no chance of losing therefore it doesn't matter. Unless it is a clear option, eg the deal, no deal, I don't see how you can include it.
I cannot quite understand the logic of this. https://twitter.com/ChukaUmunna/status/1073257335496368128 No deal is too catastrophic to do, but we must allow a unicorn option which might permit no deal to therefore possibly happen? Sounds like an assumption that Remain has no chance of losing therefore it doesn't matter. Unless it is a clear option, eg the deal, no deal, I don't see how you can include it.
Canada might win that but is not an option without the backstop
Which means, practically, the only referendum that can happen is WA vs Remain.
The Tories are running a three line whip all through next week.
So they clearly expect a VONC is a serious possibility. That tends to focus the minds. Discussions, I imagine, remain ongoing.
I think Labour should move the VONC anyway. Put the DUP on the spot. They know May cannot deliver what they ask, so get them to put their money where their mouth is.
The DUP won't desert the Tories next week.
Probably not, but what harm in trying? It puts them and the ERG under pressure, it's not that embarrassing to not succeed, and they can always do it again when May fails to get anything substantive.
Precisely. Putting the pressure on the DUP and ERG essential to getting them to crack. Even if they don't expect the DUP to break now, forcing them to defend a position they know is ludicrous, to prop up a woman who betrayed them, will increase the chances of them breaking next time.
It's not like there's a moratorium on Parliamentary VONCs. Labour can, um, just ask Parliament to hold a second vote in January. They really have nothing to lose by going for it next week, and then again after the meaningful vote.
There's NO position which the DUP, once they'd adopted it, would regard as ludicrous. No. None. Never!
I cannot quite understand the logic of this. https://twitter.com/ChukaUmunna/status/1073257335496368128 No deal is too catastrophic to do, but we must allow a unicorn option which might permit no deal to therefore possibly happen? Sounds like an assumption that Remain has no chance of losing therefore it doesn't matter. Unless it is a clear option, eg the deal, no deal, I don't see how you can include it.
I've never bought the idea of Chukka as the Peoples Choice.
When are centrists going to do something about the radicalisation of their young?
That said, it would be an absolute, inexcusable dereliction of duty if Corbyn and McDonnell and Starmer weren't promising the DUP a moon on a stick right now to peel them off.
Imagine, nailing May with a VONC on the last day of term before Christmas.
At two of those three want a United Ireland and they are so ideologically driven, it won’t occur to them to offer the DUP an olive branch and the DUP wouldn’t believe them if they did.
I have no doubt Labour are perfectly willing to meet the DUP's demands. It's mostly a question of tactics. Would they give up their vice-like grasp on Mrs May's short and curlies in exchange for a promise of no backstop? A promise they surely know Mr Corbyn cannot meaningfully deliver?
The only way I can see the DUP backing Labour is to sabotage May’s backstop and make it a straight choice between no deal or no Brexit.
A Labour government, especially one in hock to the LibDems, Plaid, and the SNP, is not going to go for No Deal under any circumstances, so it would be the current Withdrawal Agreement or Revoke, neither of which the DUP wants. In fact, I don't really see what they do want.
It’s more what they don’t want isn’t it ? They don’t want stop, that’s what I think they’ll do.
Yes but of course that means BINO and permanent Customs Union and likely Single Market too under PM Corbyn but the DUP can say that would apply to the whole UK rather than a backstop for NI only as now under the Deal
I don’t think the DUP care about that or no deal or no Brexit. NI voted Remain in the referendum and they’ve supported Leave because that was the U.K. position. As long as there is no differentiation between NI and the rest of the U.K. at any stage, the DUP will be happy.
BINO for the whole UK under PM Corbyn would be fine by the DUP as long as it avoids the need for the backstop, the Tories can then go full hard Brexit under Leader of the Opposition Boris Johnson
Boris will never win a leadership election and if we ever get a Corbyn Gov, Brexit won’t matter. We’ll be well and truly ******
Oh Boris will easily win a leadership election if he gets to the membership which looks more likely after yesterday.
A Corbyn government may be awful but the Tories can then play the populist card in opposition
I cannot quite understand the logic of this. https://twitter.com/ChukaUmunna/status/1073257335496368128 No deal is too catastrophic to do, but we must allow a unicorn option which might permit no deal to therefore possibly happen? Sounds like an assumption that Remain has no chance of losing therefore it doesn't matter. Unless it is a clear option, eg the deal, no deal, I don't see how you can include it.
Canada might win that but is not an option without the backstop
Which means, practically, the only referendum that can happen is WA vs Remain.
Comments
Also another billion pounds.
May's deal crosses the DUP's only serious red line. Remain, by default, does not. They want to leave, sure, but not if it involves any kind of customs or regulatory border in the Irish Sea.
She's reminding me a bit of Saga from The Bridge these days (though without Saga's problem-solving skills obvs.)
FOR CHEDDAR CHEESE AND PINEAPPLE ON A STICK
How many years notice will the army need of a war?
The DUP's Brexit stance was based on the assumption it would cleave NI away from the Republic of Ireland.
What May's negotiation has delivered is pretty much the exact opposite of what they wanted.
All it takes now is for
- the DUP to fail to support the Government in a VONC, in the hope that (despite her comments today) May will then be persuaded to fall on her sword and be replaced by a new Tory leader they can back to form a new government in the hope of a change of direction
- May to confound them by preferring to lead the Conservatives into an avoidable GE. The DUP could hardly come back with the tail between their legs and back May in a second vote of confidence within the 14 days period of grace.
Before last night, May could have been forced out by Tory MPs and that scenario averted. Now she is her own master (or mistress). This is what you get when a politician treats her own personal political career as being synonymous with the national interest.
https://twitter.com/zerohedge/status/1073284951972421632
The DUP have trapped themselves. They can never support Mrs May's deal, but they also can't VONC May because it's the only leverage they have to get themselves out of this mess.
That means she would be able to fight an election that was earlier.
"What I'm clear about is the next general election is in 2022 and I think it's right that another party leader take us into that general election."
No-one is sure, as ever with her, whether she was deliberately trying to keep her options open, or if she's just incapable of saying something clearly.
Partly because, as we saw in 2017, it's just not that interesting for people outside the "Westminster bubble". But also because it would be in neither of the big parties' interests to campaign much on it: Labour because it splits their voters, and the Tories because they would probably be desperate to avoid reminding voters of the Brexit-related chaos that led to the election if possible.
The election would be decided on "traditional" issues rather than Brexit IMO.
'Hi-tech robot' at Russia forum turns out to be man in suit. State television praised the ‘modern’ tech despite photos revealing actor in costume.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/12/high-tech-robot-at-russia-forum-turns-out-to-be-man-in-robot-suit
https://twitter.com/DominicRaab/status/1072744754096549888
So they clearly expect a VONC is a serious possibility. That tends to focus the minds. Discussions, I imagine, remain ongoing.
I think Labour should move the VONC anyway. Put the DUP on the spot. They know May cannot deliver what they ask, so get them to put their money where their mouth is.
Tessy would definitely go up in my estimation if she had a goose shit green 911.
It's not like there's a moratorium on Parliamentary VONCs. Labour can, um, just ask Parliament to hold a second vote in January. They really have nothing to lose by going for it next week, and then again after the meaningful vote.
https://twitter.com/ChukaUmunna/status/1073257335496368128
No deal is too catastrophic to do, but we must allow a unicorn option which might permit no deal to therefore possibly happen? Sounds like an assumption that Remain has no chance of losing therefore it doesn't matter. Unless it is a clear option, eg the deal, no deal, I don't see how you can include it.
A statue of Mahatma Gandhi, the famed Indian independence leader, has been removed from a university campus in Ghana's capital, Accra.
University of Ghana lecturers began a petition for its removal shortly after it was unveiled in 2016 by India's former President Pranab Mukherjee.
The petition said Gandhi was "racist" and African heroes should be put first.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-46552614
A Corbyn government may be awful but the Tories can then play the populist card in opposition