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Comments

  • John_M said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Jonathan said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I see our wonderful OGH has chosen a photo of Johnson which reinforces my remark from yesterday evening about Boris looking like - and having all the sex appeal - of an overboiled potato.

    Do politicians need sex appeal? The last truly sexy PM was, according to Edwina Curie, John Major.
    Well, they don't appear to have any brains or common-sense or knowledge of history or strategy or ability to persuade.

    So we may as well judge them on their f***ability.
    Mrs Thatcher was a raging beauty in her youth.
    I wouldn't go that far.

    image
    She looked OK :)
    I'm starting to worry about you, Sunil!
    I said "looked"!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    Cyclefree said:



    Ed Miliband has a sense of humour. Men underestimate its appeal.

    Tony Blair: just no. Too many teeth. Reminds one of a weasel.

    Cameron: the sort of boy your mother likes. But I'm allergic to smooth public school City types.

    Osborne, I am told, is much nicer in private than his public image would suggest. I'd take an evening with him (talking - no sniggering at the back, please) over Cameron.

    Corbyn can probably be charming.

    With most of the rest of them you wonder how they managed to persuade anyone to have sex with them once let alone marry and procreate.

    :+1:

    Blair always struck me as sweaty and there is nothing appealing about that.
    https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/12/21/2431A1EB00000578-2882156-image-m-52_1419122431312.jpg
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,139
    Cyclefree said:

    viewcode said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Jonathan said:

    Do politicians need sex appeal? The last truly sexy PM was, according to Edwina Curie, John Major.

    Well, they don't appear to have any brains or common-sense or knowledge of history or strategy or ability to persuade.

    So we may as well judge them on their f***ability.
    Problem is, it doesn't scale. Some of the beautiful women and handsome men have very ugly opinions, and some of the plain and ugly are kindly and wise.

    I was at this point going to compile a list of attractive politicians and crossreferenece against sanity of thought, but it'd take me all night... :(
    Given how few attractive ones there are, about half an hour should do it, I'd have thought.
    Please don't make me a list. Dependent on taste, there a quite a few good looking men and women in politics. And if you bring USA, Commonwealth or European politicians into the mix, the numbers go up even further. However the greater prevalence of the elderly and scruffy do skew the numbers.
  • ydoethur said:

    John_M said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Jonathan said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I see our wonderful OGH has chosen a photo of Johnson which reinforces my remark from yesterday evening about Boris looking like - and having all the sex appeal - of an overboiled potato.

    Do politicians need sex appeal? The last truly sexy PM was, according to Edwina Curie, John Major.
    Well, they don't appear to have any brains or common-sense or knowledge of history or strategy or ability to persuade.

    So we may as well judge them on their f***ability.
    Mrs Thatcher was a raging beauty in her youth.
    I wouldn't go that far.

    image
    She looked OK :)
    I'm starting to worry about you, Sunil!
    Really?

    Most of us have been worried for some time! :smile:
    I haven't mentioned Rachel Reeves in ages have I? :lol:

    But then again, there's Heidi Allen and Penny Mordaunt.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,139



    I not sure Elon Musk would have been quite as successful with the ladies if he hadn't become a billionaire,

    image

    [Instantly googles "Elon Musk hair transplant"]

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Unfortunate moment in staff briefing today, about uniform. We were discussing the problem that certain young ladies were wearing blouses that, umm, leave gaps across certain parts of their body, and skirts that do not fully cover other parts.

    We were also discussing how best we could tackle this, and the need for care by male members of staff in doing so.

    Senior teacher, female, on this issue:

    'I realise it's hard on you men...'
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    The Jeff Bezos transformation is my favourite.

    image

    image
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239
    viewcode said:

    Cyclefree said:

    viewcode said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Jonathan said:

    Do politicians need sex appeal? The last truly sexy PM was, according to Edwina Curie, John Major.

    Well, they don't appear to have any brains or common-sense or knowledge of history or strategy or ability to persuade.

    So we may as well judge them on their f***ability.
    Problem is, it doesn't scale. Some of the beautiful women and handsome men have very ugly opinions, and some of the plain and ugly are kindly and wise.

    I was at this point going to compile a list of attractive politicians and crossreferenece against sanity of thought, but it'd take me all night... :(
    Given how few attractive ones there are, about half an hour should do it, I'd have thought.
    Please don't make me a list. Dependent on taste, there a quite a few good looking men and women in politics. And if you bring USA, Commonwealth or European politicians into the mix, the numbers go up even further.
    Najat Vallaud-Belkacem.

    Game over.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    HYUFD said:

    Yorkcity said:

    Yorkcity said:

    Is stopBoris something every PBer can actually agree on?

    No , I am with HYFUD .
    Boris beats Corbyn IMO.

    Not sure May or any of the other contenders will.
    If he gets to the Conservative members ballot , I think he wins.
    Genuine question. Why do you think he beats corbyn but say Javid doesn’t?

    I would have thought corbyn could easily dismantle Boris with all his baggage, his “of the few rather than the many” background etc
    Because in their own way they are both populist.
    I honestly believe to members of the public , who are not interested in politics.
    Boris Johnson has cut through with those , who only tune in at general election time,with no party allegiance .
    Javid is a good cabinet Minster but would not reach those mentioned above.
    Yes Boris is the UK Trump or Berlusconi, a populist who can rouse the masses, Javid the UK's Marco Rubio, ie he looks better on paper then in practice

    That may once have had an element of truth in it , but he is now widely perceived to be a pretty vile human being.
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    viewcode said:



    I not sure Elon Musk would have been quite as successful with the ladies if he hadn't become a billionaire,

    image

    [Instantly googles "Elon Musk hair transplant"]

    He's really nailed the ever popular 'gerbil inna wind tunnel' look.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yorkcity said:

    Yorkcity said:

    Is stopBoris something every PBer can actually agree on?

    No , I am with HYFUD .
    Boris beats Corbyn IMO.

    Not sure May or any of the other contenders will.
    If he gets to the Conservative members ballot , I think he wins.
    Genuine question. Why do you think he beats corbyn but say Javid doesn’t?

    I would have thought corbyn could easily dismantle Boris with all his baggage, his “of the few rather than the many” background etc
    Because in their own way they are both populist.
    I honestly believe to members of the public , who are not interested in politics.
    Boris Johnson has cut through with those , who only tune in at general election time,with no party allegiance .
    Javid is a good cabinet Minster but would not reach those mentioned above.
    Yes Boris is the UK Trump or Berlusconi, a populist who can rouse the masses, Javid the UK's Marco Rubio, ie he looks better on paper then in practice

    That may once have had an element of truth in it , but he is now widely perceived to be a pretty vile human being.
    Boris or Javid?
  • Don’t hate me cos I’m beautiful.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    The Tories are running a three line whip all through next week.

    So they clearly expect a VONC is a serious possibility. That tends to focus the minds. Discussions, I imagine, remain ongoing.

    I think Labour should move the VONC anyway. Put the DUP on the spot. They know May cannot deliver what they ask, so get them to put their money where their mouth is.

    I fail to see that Labour has anything to lose by moving a VONC. If it does not succeed , they can follow Thatcher's example by tabling another motion in late January - or whenever.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    Don’t hate me cos I’m beautiful.

    In my case there's no danger of that.

    I have to use a photo of a steam engine as my avatar because there are no known photos of me. Every time I look at a camera it breaks.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    ydoethur said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yorkcity said:

    Yorkcity said:

    Is stopBoris something every PBer can actually agree on?

    No , I am with HYFUD .
    Boris beats Corbyn IMO.

    Not sure May or any of the other contenders will.
    If he gets to the Conservative members ballot , I think he wins.
    Genuine question. Why do you think he beats corbyn but say Javid doesn’t?

    I would have thought corbyn could easily dismantle Boris with all his baggage, his “of the few rather than the many” background etc
    Because in their own way they are both populist.
    I honestly believe to members of the public , who are not interested in politics.
    Boris Johnson has cut through with those , who only tune in at general election time,with no party allegiance .
    Javid is a good cabinet Minster but would not reach those mentioned above.
    Yes Boris is the UK Trump or Berlusconi, a populist who can rouse the masses, Javid the UK's Marco Rubio, ie he looks better on paper then in practice

    That may once have had an element of truth in it , but he is now widely perceived to be a pretty vile human being.
    Boris or Javid?
    Boris.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,742

    viewcode said:

    Cyclefree said:

    viewcode said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Jonathan said:

    Do politicians need sex appeal? The last truly sexy PM was, according to Edwina Curie, John Major.

    Well, they don't appear to have any brains or common-sense or knowledge of history or strategy or ability to persuade.

    So we may as well judge them on their f***ability.
    Problem is, it doesn't scale. Some of the beautiful women and handsome men have very ugly opinions, and some of the plain and ugly are kindly and wise.

    I was at this point going to compile a list of attractive politicians and crossreferenece against sanity of thought, but it'd take me all night... :(
    Given how few attractive ones there are, about half an hour should do it, I'd have thought.
    Please don't make me a list. Dependent on taste, there a quite a few good looking men and women in politics. And if you bring USA, Commonwealth or European politicians into the mix, the numbers go up even further.
    Najat Vallaud-Belkacem.

    Game over.
    Good call. I would get my pencil out for her.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Foxy said:

    viewcode said:

    Cyclefree said:

    viewcode said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Jonathan said:

    Do politicians need sex appeal? The last truly sexy PM was, according to Edwina Curie, John Major.

    Well, they don't appear to have any brains or common-sense or knowledge of history or strategy or ability to persuade.

    So we may as well judge them on their f***ability.
    Problem is, it doesn't scale. Some of the beautiful women and handsome men have very ugly opinions, and some of the plain and ugly are kindly and wise.

    I was at this point going to compile a list of attractive politicians and crossreferenece against sanity of thought, but it'd take me all night... :(
    Given how few attractive ones there are, about half an hour should do it, I'd have thought.
    Please don't make me a list. Dependent on taste, there a quite a few good looking men and women in politics. And if you bring USA, Commonwealth or European politicians into the mix, the numbers go up even further.
    Najat Vallaud-Belkacem.

    Game over.
    Good call. I would get my pencil out for her.
    TMI :hushed:
  • justin124 said:

    The Tories are running a three line whip all through next week.

    So they clearly expect a VONC is a serious possibility. That tends to focus the minds. Discussions, I imagine, remain ongoing.

    I think Labour should move the VONC anyway. Put the DUP on the spot. They know May cannot deliver what they ask, so get them to put their money where their mouth is.

    I fail to see that Labour has anything to lose by moving a VONC. If it does not succeed , they can follow Thatcher's example by tabling another motion in late January - or whenever.
    The DUP are not going to support a formal vote of no confidence. They’re playing a much cleverer game.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,742
    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    viewcode said:

    Cyclefree said:

    viewcode said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Jonathan said:

    Do politicians need sex appeal? The last truly sexy PM was, according to Edwina Curie, John Major.

    Well, they don't appear to have any brains or common-sense or knowledge of history or strategy or ability to persuade.

    So we may as well judge them on their f***ability.
    Problem is, it doesn't scale. Some of the beautiful women and handsome men have very ugly opinions, and some of the plain and ugly are kindly and wise.

    I was at this point going to compile a list of attractive politicians and crossreferenece against sanity of thought, but it'd take me all night... :(
    Given how few attractive ones there are, about half an hour should do it, I'd have thought.
    Please don't make me a list. Dependent on taste, there a quite a few good looking men and women in politics. And if you bring USA, Commonwealth or European politicians into the mix, the numbers go up even further.
    Najat Vallaud-Belkacem.

    Game over.
    Good call. I would get my pencil out for her.
    TMI :hushed:
    For putting a cross in her box of course!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    viewcode said:

    Cyclefree said:

    viewcode said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Jonathan said:

    Do politicians need sex appeal? The last truly sexy PM was, according to Edwina Curie, John Major.

    Well, they don't appear to have any brains or common-sense or knowledge of history or strategy or ability to persuade.

    So we may as well judge them on their f***ability.
    Problem is, it doesn't scale. Some of the beautiful women and handsome men have very ugly opinions, and some of the plain and ugly are kindly and wise.

    I was at this point going to compile a list of attractive politicians and crossreferenece against sanity of thought, but it'd take me all night... :(
    Given how few attractive ones there are, about half an hour should do it, I'd have thought.
    Please don't make me a list. Dependent on taste, there a quite a few good looking men and women in politics. And if you bring USA, Commonwealth or European politicians into the mix, the numbers go up even further.
    Najat Vallaud-Belkacem.

    Game over.
    Good call. I would get my pencil out for her.
    TMI :hushed:
    For putting a cross in her box of course!
    :flushed:
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331
    viewcode said:
    Very nice, though the effect is somewhat diminished by the pop-up pictures of Jim Davidson.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    viewcode said:
    Very nice, though the effect is somewhat diminished by the pop-up pictures of Jim Davidson.
    One shudders to think what websites you've been looking at to get that effect...
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    Justin Trudeau still tops my list :)
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    ydoethur said:

    Don’t hate me cos I’m beautiful.

    In my case there's no danger of that.

    I have to use a photo of a steam engine as my avatar because there are no known photos of me. Every time I look at a camera it breaks.
    You have my sympathy.

    In my youth I executed a high velocity exit via the rear side window of a Ford Cortina, without benefit of opening either door or said window (for our younger readers, this was in days of yore before rear seat belts or safety glass), due to being hit by a lorry. My face is, sad to say, not a pretty sight, though somewhat disguised by the wrinkles these days!
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331
    Wrt to the strange sex appeal of EdM, I recall that his brother was wont to set the pulses racing of certain female acquaintances of mine.
  • FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486
    You never quite know what the comments are going to give you... good old PB
  • Donny43Donny43 Posts: 634

    Hoepfully by the next referendum, Farage will be serving a lengthy sentence at His Mueller's pleasure.

    Hopefully he'll be 30 years into it.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331
    ydoethur said:

    viewcode said:
    Very nice, though the effect is somewhat diminished by the pop-up pictures of Jim Davidson.
    One shudders to think what websites you've been looking at to get that effect...
    ConHome, probably ...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    edited December 2018
    John_M said:

    ydoethur said:

    Don’t hate me cos I’m beautiful.

    In my case there's no danger of that.

    I have to use a photo of a steam engine as my avatar because there are no known photos of me. Every time I look at a camera it breaks.
    You have my sympathy.

    In my youth I executed a high velocity exit via the rear side window of a Ford Cortina, without benefit of opening either door or said window (for our younger readers, this was in days of yore before rear seat belts or safety glass), due to being hit by a lorry. My face is, sad to say, not a pretty sight, though somewhat disguised by the wrinkles these days!
    That's a grim story, for which you have my sympathy.

    But I'm just naturally no Brad Pitt.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    ydoethur said:

    viewcode said:
    Very nice, though the effect is somewhat diminished by the pop-up pictures of Jim Davidson.
    One shudders to think what websites you've been looking at to get that effect...
    ConHome, probably ...
    We could ask Hyufd if he gets similar adverts, by way of a test...
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,752
    Meanwhile, apparently Theresa May has hit on a brilliant solution to the problem of the backstop - just specify a date for the new trade agreement to come into force.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,742
    On a deviation from politics being show business for ugly people (having cracked a mirror or too in my time..! )

    I see that the Neo-Nazi fashion is out for Weinachten:

    https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/1073305943092404224?s=19
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,173

    This is always the best time to remind people that young Stalin was a stone-cold absolute 10/10 hottie.

    image

    He has kind eyes.
  • Jonathan said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    Very few people have the raw sexual energy of our very own JohnO. A human Tsunami of sexuality.

    He uses to great effect I hear on Surrey Council.

    What the actual F***?
    They call him the Blue Barry White apparently.
    Yer actual Barry Blue with some hot mullet action.

    https://youtu.be/MSv8o_iZ_Oc
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,743

    justin124 said:

    The Tories are running a three line whip all through next week.

    So they clearly expect a VONC is a serious possibility. That tends to focus the minds. Discussions, I imagine, remain ongoing.

    I think Labour should move the VONC anyway. Put the DUP on the spot. They know May cannot deliver what they ask, so get them to put their money where their mouth is.

    I fail to see that Labour has anything to lose by moving a VONC. If it does not succeed , they can follow Thatcher's example by tabling another motion in late January - or whenever.
    The DUP are not going to support a formal vote of no confidence. They’re playing a much cleverer game.
    Interviewer need to be much tougher on pushing them to state a position on a second referendum or no Brexit.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,173
    I still prefer my solution to the backstop which is everyone just pretends it doesn't exist. Self delusion is all the rage.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    I see PB has descended into hot or not. :p
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    RobD said:

    I see PB has descended into hot or not. :p

    Beats talking about f***ing Brexit.
  • Donny43Donny43 Posts: 634
    RobD said:

    I see PB has descended into hot or not. :p

    Ascended...
  • Foxy said:

    viewcode said:

    Cyclefree said:

    viewcode said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Jonathan said:

    Do politicians need sex appeal? The last truly sexy PM was, according to Edwina Curie, John Major.

    Well, they don't appear to have any brains or common-sense or knowledge of history or strategy or ability to persuade.

    So we may as well judge them on their f***ability.
    Problem is, it doesn't scale. Some of the beautiful women and handsome men have very ugly opinions, and some of the plain and ugly are kindly and wise.

    I was at this point going to compile a list of attractive politicians and crossreferenece against sanity of thought, but it'd take me all night... :(
    Given how few attractive ones there are, about half an hour should do it, I'd have thought.
    Please don't make me a list. Dependent on taste, there a quite a few good looking men and women in politics. And if you bring USA, Commonwealth or European politicians into the mix, the numbers go up even further.
    Najat Vallaud-Belkacem.

    Game over.
    Good call. I would get my pencil out for her.
    Steady. It's not past the lagershed yet.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,173

    Jonathan said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I see our wonderful OGH has chosen a photo of Johnson which reinforces my remark from yesterday evening about Boris looking like - and having all the sex appeal - of an overboiled potato.

    Do politicians need sex appeal? The last truly sexy PM was, according to Edwina Curie, John Major.
    Both Tony Blair and David Cameron had sex appeal at the start.

    Bizarrely, for reasons I’ve never quite understood, so did Ed Miliband.
    He's obviously a charming chap. As I am a fond of recalling there was that piece during the GE or before about his wife and previous partners, and it almost seemed to be suggesting he was a loser somehow, despite having involved with many talented, accomplished and beautiful women.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    Foxy said:

    viewcode said:

    Cyclefree said:

    viewcode said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Jonathan said:

    Do politicians need sex appeal? The last truly sexy PM was, according to Edwina Curie, John Major.

    Well, they don't appear to have any brains or common-sense or knowledge of history or strategy or ability to persuade.

    So we may as well judge them on their f***ability.
    Problem is, it doesn't scale. Some of the beautiful women and handsome men have very ugly opinions, and some of the plain and ugly are kindly and wise.

    I was at this point going to compile a list of attractive politicians and crossreferenece against sanity of thought, but it'd take me all night... :(
    Given how few attractive ones there are, about half an hour should do it, I'd have thought.
    Please don't make me a list. Dependent on taste, there a quite a few good looking men and women in politics. And if you bring USA, Commonwealth or European politicians into the mix, the numbers go up even further.
    Najat Vallaud-Belkacem.

    Game over.
    Good call. I would get my pencil out for her.
    Steady. It's not past the lagershed yet.
    It is now!
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,728
    ydoethur said:

    Don’t hate me cos I’m beautiful.

    In my case there's no danger of that.

    I have to use a photo of a steam engine as my avatar because there are no known photos of me. Every time I look at a camera it breaks.
    Think that's bad? My face is so bad I have to use a balaclava. I would use a paper bag, but the balaclava's warmer. ;)
  • I'm glad we're not trying to assess AKK or Angela Merkel.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871
    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yorkcity said:

    Yorkcity said:

    Is stopBoris something every PBer can actually agree on?

    No , I am with HYFUD .
    Boris beats Corbyn IMO.

    Not sure May or any of the other contenders will.
    If he gets to the Conservative members ballot , I think he wins.
    Genuine question. Why do you think he beats corbyn but say Javid doesn’t?

    I would have thought corbyn could easily dismantle Boris with all his baggage, his “of the few rather than the many” background etc
    Because in their own way they are both populist.
    I honestly believe to members of the public , who are not interested in politics.
    Boris Johnson has cut through with those , who only tune in at general election time,with no party allegiance .
    Javid is a good cabinet Minster but would not reach those mentioned above.
    Yes Boris is the UK Trump or Berlusconi, a populist who can rouse the masses, Javid the UK's Marco Rubio, ie he looks better on paper then in practice

    That may once have had an element of truth in it , but he is now widely perceived to be a pretty vile human being.
    Yep, HY remains behind the times.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,173
    RobD said:

    I see PB has descended into hot or not. :p

    I've been waiting for this moment for years. I only paid attention to the Catalan crisis because the regional leader of Citizens is Inés Arrimadas.
  • DadgeDadge Posts: 2,052
    This is probably not to most people's musical taste, but I was reflecting that (perhaps unsurprisingly) Macron himself has turned out to be Perlimpinpin salesman... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCK-7Hki4II
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,705
    kle4 said:

    I still prefer my solution to the backstop which is everyone just pretends it doesn't exist. Self delusion is all the rage.

    Remind me?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,173

    kle4 said:

    I still prefer my solution to the backstop which is everyone just pretends it doesn't exist. Self delusion is all the rage.

    Remind me?
    Of what? The solution? It's as simple as I said - it happens, we just pretend it doesn't. No problem.

    If you thought I had an actual good solution I'm sorry for getting your hopes up.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,705
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    I still prefer my solution to the backstop which is everyone just pretends it doesn't exist. Self delusion is all the rage.

    Remind me?
    Of what? The solution? It's as simple as I said - it happens, we just pretend it doesn't. No problem.

    If you thought I had an actual good solution I'm sorry for getting your hopes up.
    Ah right. Sadly, I fear JRM and co. would believe the backstop was still there even if the EU agreed to scrap it.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,139
    edited December 2018
    That has Vladimir Putin at 22! I quote "As more and more images surface on the World Wide Web of Vladimir Putin shirtless, riding horses, and snuggling animals, it gets harder and harder to remember his stance on domestic policies. At 63, he's officially in silver fox territory. " Yikes!

    If we are going to comment upon men, then may I present to you the following

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedro_Sánchez_(politician)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Heinrich
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Linde_(Swedish_politician)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Kinzinger
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eduardo_Leite
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manuel_Valls

    and - I hate to say it, but be honest:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitt_Romney
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,494

    Two years notice not enough?.

    How many years notice will the army need of a war?
    Not sure Tobias realises that whilst it's undoubtedly his mandarins of jamming rifle fame that have told him no deal is no go, it's him who looks incompetent.
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    edited December 2018

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    I still prefer my solution to the backstop which is everyone just pretends it doesn't exist. Self delusion is all the rage.

    Remind me?
    Of what? The solution? It's as simple as I said - it happens, we just pretend it doesn't. No problem.

    If you thought I had an actual good solution I'm sorry for getting your hopes up.
    Ah right. Sadly, I fear JRM and co. would believe the backstop was still there even if the EU agreed to scrap it.
    I liked (though can't recall who suggested it), co-sovereignty of Northern Ireland. I'm sure we could do something suitably retro to assuage unionist fears, a la Andorra.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,705
    John_M said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    I still prefer my solution to the backstop which is everyone just pretends it doesn't exist. Self delusion is all the rage.

    Remind me?
    Of what? The solution? It's as simple as I said - it happens, we just pretend it doesn't. No problem.

    If you thought I had an actual good solution I'm sorry for getting your hopes up.
    Ah right. Sadly, I fear JRM and co. would believe the backstop was still there even if the EU agreed to scrap it.
    I liked (though can't recall who suggested it), co-sovereignty of Northern Island. I'm sure we could do something suitably retro to assuage unionist fears, a la Andorra.
    You must be joking - even Britain is not British enough for the unionists and 'compromise' is not in their lexicon.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,173
    edited December 2018
    Of all the arguments on Brexit it is not the strongest. Oh woe is me, people besides the young vote, and how dare they come to a different conclusion about what is best for the future, so let's call it betrayal because I'm a old self pitier.

    His teary eyes do not move me in the slightest when he makes moronic arguments. Older people came to a different view, and overall enough people younger saw it over the line. If only the views of the very youngest and those to come matter, we should never let old people vote. Let's start by making anyone within five years of average life expectancy banned from voting in GE's, they likely won't face the consequences.
  • As the Spartan said:

    "If'

    Apologies if someone has already made that comment.
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503

    John_M said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    I still prefer my solution to the backstop which is everyone just pretends it doesn't exist. Self delusion is all the rage.

    Remind me?
    Of what? The solution? It's as simple as I said - it happens, we just pretend it doesn't. No problem.

    If you thought I had an actual good solution I'm sorry for getting your hopes up.
    Ah right. Sadly, I fear JRM and co. would believe the backstop was still there even if the EU agreed to scrap it.
    I liked (though can't recall who suggested it), co-sovereignty of Northern Island. I'm sure we could do something suitably retro to assuage unionist fears, a la Andorra.
    You must be joking - even Britain is not British enough for the unionists and 'compromise' is not in their lexicon.
    I jest not. The Unionists are, bluntly, on the wrong side of history and demographics. If they don't flex, then a united Ireland beckons.
  • Is he referring to unaffordable housing, accumulated debt, student fees or uncontrolled immigration ?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,139

    Two years notice not enough?.

    How many years notice will the army need of a war?
    Not sure Tobias realises that whilst it's undoubtedly his mandarins of jamming rifle fame that have told him no deal is no go, it's him who looks incompetent.
    I am given to understand that the L85A2 was a massive improvement on its (rubbish) predecessor, and it's newest incarnation L85A3 is now at least competent.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=js4d8c7KzCQ
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,173
    John_M said:

    John_M said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    I still prefer my solution to the backstop which is everyone just pretends it doesn't exist. Self delusion is all the rage.

    Remind me?
    Of what? The solution? It's as simple as I said - it happens, we just pretend it doesn't. No problem.

    If you thought I had an actual good solution I'm sorry for getting your hopes up.
    Ah right. Sadly, I fear JRM and co. would believe the backstop was still there even if the EU agreed to scrap it.
    I liked (though can't recall who suggested it), co-sovereignty of Northern Island. I'm sure we could do something suitably retro to assuage unionist fears, a la Andorra.
    You must be joking - even Britain is not British enough for the unionists and 'compromise' is not in their lexicon.
    I jest not. The Unionists are, bluntly, on the wrong side of history and demographics. If they don't flex, then a united Ireland beckons.
    That may be so but I do think that 'the wrong side of history' is a common but dumb phrase in a lot of ways.
  • NemtynakhtNemtynakht Posts: 2,329
    Whilst I agree the guy is a cretin, I did make the point on here last week that the perpetrator had a history of mental health issues, so the crime was not really committed on a political basis. I would suggest groups such as the old IRA or ETA, Baden Meinhof etc as political murderers / terrorists.

    Think about the counter factual if someone had come out and murdered Farage in the last days of the campaign and we had seen a swing to Leave would we be saying the same thing?
  • John_M said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    I still prefer my solution to the backstop which is everyone just pretends it doesn't exist. Self delusion is all the rage.

    Remind me?
    Of what? The solution? It's as simple as I said - it happens, we just pretend it doesn't. No problem.

    If you thought I had an actual good solution I'm sorry for getting your hopes up.
    Ah right. Sadly, I fear JRM and co. would believe the backstop was still there even if the EU agreed to scrap it.
    I liked (though can't recall who suggested it), co-sovereignty of Northern Island. I'm sure we could do something suitably retro to assuage unionist fears, a la Andorra.
    You must be joking - even Britain is not British enough for the unionists and 'compromise' is not in their lexicon.
    Neither is living within their means.

    Perhaps if they want the political and social situation of 1968 Ulster they could accept the financial situation of 1968 Ulster.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,202
    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yorkcity said:

    Yorkcity said:

    Is stopBoris something every PBer can actually agree on?

    No , I am with HYFUD .
    Boris beats Corbyn IMO.

    Not sure May or any of the other contenders will.
    If he gets to the Conservative members ballot , I think he wins.
    Genuine question. Why do you think he beats corbyn but say Javid doesn’t?

    I would have thought corbyn could easily dismantle Boris with all his baggage, his “of the few rather than the many” background etc
    Because in their own way they are both populist.
    I honestly believe to members of the public , who are not interested in politics.
    Boris Johnson has cut through with those , who only tune in at general election time,with no party allegiance .
    Javid is a good cabinet Minster but would not reach those mentioned above.
    Yes Boris is the UK Trump or Berlusconi, a populist who can rouse the masses, Javid the UK's Marco Rubio, ie he looks better on paper then in practice

    That may once have had an element of truth in it , but he is now widely perceived to be a pretty vile human being.
    By the liberal left maybe but they loathed Trump and Berlusconi too, that did not stop them winning
  • OortOort Posts: 96
    edited December 2018
    Today I posted a Christmas parcel to my son who is working in Turkey. The postmistress in this very white part of Scotland wondered for a moment whether Turkey was already in the EU before deciding that they're "not in just yet". The Tories got less than a sixth of the vote here in the 2017 GE, and less than a twelfth in 2015, and the small business class in this part of the world is mainly SNP or Labour. She was not interested in my referencing David Cameron's observation that at the current rate of progress Turkey won't join the EU before the year 3000. Nor did she care to learn that accession requires unanimity, and that it is extremely improbable that parties supporting actual full accession by Turkey will form parliamentary majorities, in coalitions or otherwise, in Germany, Hungary, Austria, Croatia, the Netherlands, and Poland, or indeed even in a single one of those countries. On the contrary, she spoke as if I were a fool for not having drunk up heard the Leave propaganda to the effect that Remaining in the EU would inevitably lead to a large influx of Turks to Britain, since Turkey is about to become a member state. I soon fell back to my staple impersonation of John Cleese's character in the village idiot sketch.

    We Remainers will have our work seriously cut out for us in a future referendum.
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    kle4 said:

    John_M said:

    John_M said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    I still prefer my solution to the backstop which is everyone just pretends it doesn't exist. Self delusion is all the rage.

    Remind me?
    Of what? The solution? It's as simple as I said - it happens, we just pretend it doesn't. No problem.

    If you thought I had an actual good solution I'm sorry for getting your hopes up.
    Ah right. Sadly, I fear JRM and co. would believe the backstop was still there even if the EU agreed to scrap it.
    I liked (though can't recall who suggested it), co-sovereignty of Northern Island. I'm sure we could do something suitably retro to assuage unionist fears, a la Andorra.
    You must be joking - even Britain is not British enough for the unionists and 'compromise' is not in their lexicon.
    I jest not. The Unionists are, bluntly, on the wrong side of history and demographics. If they don't flex, then a united Ireland beckons.
    That may be so but I do think that 'the wrong side of history' is a common but dumb phrase in a lot of ways.
    I am suitably abashed :).
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,494
    kle4 said:

    This is always the best time to remind people that young Stalin was a stone-cold absolute 10/10 hottie.

    image

    He has kind eyes.
    Do you think so? Personally I think there's something very wrong even back then, but that could be the power of suggestion.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,173
    John_M said:

    kle4 said:

    John_M said:

    John_M said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    I still prefer my solution to the backstop which is everyone just pretends it doesn't exist. Self delusion is all the rage.

    Remind me?
    Of what? The solution? It's as simple as I said - it happens, we just pretend it doesn't. No problem.

    If you thought I had an actual good solution I'm sorry for getting your hopes up.
    Ah right. Sadly, I fear JRM and co. would believe the backstop was still there even if the EU agreed to scrap it.
    I liked (though can't recall who suggested it), co-sovereignty of Northern Island. I'm sure we could do something suitably retro to assuage unionist fears, a la Andorra.
    You must be joking - even Britain is not British enough for the unionists and 'compromise' is not in their lexicon.
    I jest not. The Unionists are, bluntly, on the wrong side of history and demographics. If they don't flex, then a united Ireland beckons.
    That may be so but I do think that 'the wrong side of history' is a common but dumb phrase in a lot of ways.
    I am suitably abashed :).
    Well I assume you did not coin the phrase!
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,705
    kle4 said:

    Of all the arguments on Brexit it is not the strongest. Oh woe is me, people besides the young vote, and how dare they come to a different conclusion about what is best for the future, so let's call it betrayal because I'm a old self pitier.

    His teary eyes do not move me in the slightest when he makes moronic arguments.
    For a GE vote most will live throughout the period of the parliament being elected so all have a more or less equal stake in the outcome.

    With constitutional change maybe we should each get a weight to our vote proportional to our remaining expected lifespan? So n 18 year old might get 70 votes (LE at 18 = 88) and a 70 year old would only get 10 votes (LE at 80 = 90).

    Should go down well with the Tory party members. :wink:
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,494
    Were they ignored - I thought they had a vote like everyone else.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    kle4 said:

    John_M said:

    John_M said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    I still prefer my solution to the backstop which is everyone just pretends it doesn't exist. Self delusion is all the rage.

    Remind me?
    Of what? The solution? It's as simple as I said - it happens, we just pretend it doesn't. No problem.

    If you thought I had an actual good solution I'm sorry for getting your hopes up.
    Ah right. Sadly, I fear JRM and co. would believe the backstop was still there even if the EU agreed to scrap it.
    I liked (though can't recall who suggested it), co-sovereignty of Northern Island. I'm sure we could do something suitably retro to assuage unionist fears, a la Andorra.
    You must be joking - even Britain is not British enough for the unionists and 'compromise' is not in their lexicon.
    I jest not. The Unionists are, bluntly, on the wrong side of history and demographics. If they don't flex, then a united Ireland beckons.
    That may be so but I do think that 'the wrong side of history' is a common but dumb phrase in a lot of ways.
    Khrushchev told Eisenhower he was on the wrong side of history and Eisenhower's grandson would be a Communist.

    Not only was Khrushchev wrong about history, his own son is an unabashed capitalist who is an American citizen.
  • ydoethur said:

    RobD said:

    I see PB has descended into hot or not. :p

    Beats talking about f***ing Brexit.
    Need the like button for this!
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,139

    Whilst I agree the guy is a cretin, I did make the point on here last week that the perpetrator had a history of mental health issues, so the crime was not really committed on a political basis. I would suggest groups such as the old IRA or ETA, Baden Meinhof etc as political murderers / terrorists.

    Think about the counter factual if someone had come out and murdered Farage in the last days of the campaign and we had seen a swing to Leave would we be saying the same thing?
    I think Lilico is arguing from a false premise (two, in fact: the polls were not giving a 10% lead on average at that time). Single-issue events have to be 9/11 sized to move the polls. I was tracking the polls last year when the two terrorist outrages occurred and when you compare polls from the same company across the events they really don't make a difference: a brief blip at best. What was the most dramatic poll change in UK in the 2010's? Nick Clegg in the debates. What happened in the election? The LD's lost seats.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    edited December 2018
    viewcode said:

    Two years notice not enough?.

    How many years notice will the army need of a war?
    Not sure Tobias realises that whilst it's undoubtedly his mandarins of jamming rifle fame that have told him no deal is no go, it's him who looks incompetent.
    I am given to understand that the L85A2 was a massive improvement on its (rubbish) predecessor, and it's newest incarnation L85A3 is now at least competent.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=js4d8c7KzCQ
    Yeah the old one was crap. Still, was an improvement in turn on the SLR.

    Edit: apparently!!!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,173
    edited December 2018

    kle4 said:

    Of all the arguments on Brexit it is not the strongest. Oh woe is me, people besides the young vote, and how dare they come to a different conclusion about what is best for the future, so let's call it betrayal because I'm a old self pitier.

    His teary eyes do not move me in the slightest when he makes moronic arguments.
    For a GE vote most will live throughout the period of the parliament being elected so all have a more or less equal stake in the outcome.

    With constitutional change maybe we should each get a weight to our vote proportional to our remaining expected lifespan? So n 18 year old might get 70 votes (LE at 18 = 88) and a 70 year old would only get 10 votes (LE at 80 = 90).

    Should go down well with the Tory party members. :wink:
    Yes I'm sure.

    But in all seriousness he's not angry that the young were or are being ignored, he's angry that other people take and took a different view on what is best for everyone, including the young. And if the young voters now are upset, what about those even younger than the young? In some nations the young voters are enthusiastic supporters of nasty populists, views shift. Those just being born might not desire to rejoin the EU when they come of age, who the hell knows? And since he doesn't want the young ignored he must want perpetual referendums to make sure the will is still there. Hence the problem with your I am sure totally serious voting system - he doesn't seem to want the big constitutional vote to last more than a few years. And what if someone won a GE on a policy of taking us out or in without a referendum? I'm beginning to think your new voting system wasn't serious after all!

    He's just bitter, and cloaking his bitterness with emotion. That is a bad idea full stop for everyone is a much much more powerful argument than something so much a hostage to fortune as in essence saying only the views of the young matter.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    kle4 said:
    kle4 said:



    Jonathan said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I see our wonderful OGH has chosen a photo of Johnson which reinforces my remark from yesterday evening about Boris looking like - and having all the sex appeal - of an overboiled potato.

    Do politicians need sex appeal? The last truly sexy PM was, according to Edwina Curie, John Major.
    Both Tony Blair and David Cameron had sex appeal at the start.

    Bizarrely, for reasons I’ve never quite understood, so did Ed Miliband.
    He's obviously a charming chap. As I am a fond of recalling there was that piece during the GE or before about his wife and previous partners, and it almost seemed to be suggesting he was a loser somehow, despite having involved with many talented, accomplished and beautiful women.
    Miliband Jr is a hit with women, he’s reasonably fit and tall but it’s probably his well developed sense of humour that does it.
  • OortOort Posts: 96
    edited December 2018
    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    John_M said:

    John_M said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    I still prefer my solution to the backstop which is everyone just pretends it doesn't exist. Self delusion is all the rage.

    Remind me?
    Of what? The solution? It's as simple as I said - it happens, we just pretend it doesn't. No problem.

    If you thought I had an actual good solution I'm sorry for getting your hopes up.
    Ah right. Sadly, I fear JRM and co. would believe the backstop was still there even if the EU agreed to scrap it.
    I liked (though can't recall who suggested it), co-sovereignty of Northern Island. I'm sure we could do something suitably retro to assuage unionist fears, a la Andorra.
    You must be joking - even Britain is not British enough for the unionists and 'compromise' is not in their lexicon.
    I jest not. The Unionists are, bluntly, on the wrong side of history and demographics. If they don't flex, then a united Ireland beckons.
    That may be so but I do think that 'the wrong side of history' is a common but dumb phrase in a lot of ways.
    Khrushchev told Eisenhower he was on the wrong side of history and Eisenhower's grandson would be a Communist.

    Not only was Khrushchev wrong about history, his own son is an unabashed capitalist who is an American citizen.
    For some perspective, the CPSU General Secretary Nikita Khrushchev averred, around the time he met the queen in Windsor Castle, that were he British he would vote Conservative.
  • NemtynakhtNemtynakht Posts: 2,329
    I wonder if anyone has had similar thoughts about the VONCs - did May or supporters trigger the party election? Rumours went around and letter threshold reached on 11th December and election on 12th - if Labour had called a VONC in the Government on either of these dates the two weeks required after a loss under FTPA would have meant that supporting motion would have been due on either Christmas Day or Boxing Day. May knew a number of letters were already in, could have convinced her own supporters to put letters in by Proxy to trigger vote, and wrong foot ERG.
  • Were they ignored - I thought they had a vote like everyone else.
    Do young people only become young people at the age of 18?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,173

    Were they ignored - I thought they had a vote like everyone else.
    Do young people only become young people at the age of 18?
    We must wait for all potential young voters to come of age before holding another vote. I will not betray the cohort of 2015 by giving the cohort of 2000/01 a bigger say on what they want - they have even longer to live with the consequences of any vote.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,494

    Were they ignored - I thought they had a vote like everyone else.
    Do young people only become young people at the age of 18?
    True, they should really become young people at whatever age Alec Salmond thinks they're useful voting fodder.
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787

    I wonder if anyone has had similar thoughts about the VONCs - did May or supporters trigger the party election? Rumours went around and letter threshold reached on 11th December and election on 12th - if Labour had called a VONC in the Government on either of these dates the two weeks required after a loss under FTPA would have meant that supporting motion would have been due on either Christmas Day or Boxing Day. May knew a number of letters were already in, could have convinced her own supporters to put letters in by Proxy to trigger vote, and wrong foot ERG.

    Doesn't really feel like May's style though. And if she was going to do it, I'm sure she would have done it before now.
  • Donny43Donny43 Posts: 634

    Were they ignored - I thought they had a vote like everyone else.
    Do young people only become young people at the age of 18?
    Before that they are children.
  • Oort said:

    Today I posted a Christmas parcel to my son who is working in Turkey. The postmistress in this very white part of Scotland wondered for a moment whether Turkey was already in the EU before deciding that they're "not in just yet". The Tories got less than a sixth of the vote here in the 2017 GE, and less than a twelfth in 2015, and the small business class in this part of the world is mainly SNP or Labour. She was not interested in my referencing David Cameron's observation that at the current rate of progress Turkey won't join the EU before the year 3000. Nor did she care to learn that accession requires unanimity, and that it is extremely improbable that parties supporting actual full accession by Turkey will form parliamentary majorities, in coalitions or otherwise, in Germany, Hungary, Austria, Croatia, the Netherlands, and Poland, or indeed even in a single one of those countries. On the contrary, she spoke as if I were a fool for not having drunk up heard the Leave propaganda to the effect that Remaining in the EU would inevitably lead to a large influx of Turks to Britain, since Turkey is about to become a member state. I soon fell back to my staple impersonation of John Cleese's character in the village idiot sketch.

    We Remainers will have our work seriously cut out for us in a future referendum.

    Isn't it sill British government policy that Turkey should become a member of the EU ?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,173

    Oort said:

    Today I posted a Christmas parcel to my son who is working in Turkey. The postmistress in this very white part of Scotland wondered for a moment whether Turkey was already in the EU before deciding that they're "not in just yet". The Tories got less than a sixth of the vote here in the 2017 GE, and less than a twelfth in 2015, and the small business class in this part of the world is mainly SNP or Labour. She was not interested in my referencing David Cameron's observation that at the current rate of progress Turkey won't join the EU before the year 3000. Nor did she care to learn that accession requires unanimity, and that it is extremely improbable that parties supporting actual full accession by Turkey will form parliamentary majorities, in coalitions or otherwise, in Germany, Hungary, Austria, Croatia, the Netherlands, and Poland, or indeed even in a single one of those countries. On the contrary, she spoke as if I were a fool for not having drunk up heard the Leave propaganda to the effect that Remaining in the EU would inevitably lead to a large influx of Turks to Britain, since Turkey is about to become a member state. I soon fell back to my staple impersonation of John Cleese's character in the village idiot sketch.

    We Remainers will have our work seriously cut out for us in a future referendum.

    Isn't it sill British government policy that Turkey should become a member of the EU ?
    Expect a manned mission to mars before that happens.
  • kle4 said:

    Of all the arguments on Brexit it is not the strongest. Oh woe is me, people besides the young vote, and how dare they come to a different conclusion about what is best for the future, so let's call it betrayal because I'm a old self pitier.

    His teary eyes do not move me in the slightest when he makes moronic arguments.
    For a GE vote most will live throughout the period of the parliament being elected so all have a more or less equal stake in the outcome.

    With constitutional change maybe we should each get a weight to our vote proportional to our remaining expected lifespan? So n 18 year old might get 70 votes (LE at 18 = 88) and a 70 year old would only get 10 votes (LE at 80 = 90).

    Should go down well with the Tory party members. :wink:
    Constitutional changes are not necessarily for life.
  • NemtynakhtNemtynakht Posts: 2,329
    viewcode said:

    Whilst I agree the guy is a cretin, I did make the point on here last week that the perpetrator had a history of mental health issues, so the crime was not really committed on a political basis. I would suggest groups such as the old IRA or ETA, Baden Meinhof etc as political murderers / terrorists.

    Think about the counter factual if someone had come out and murdered Farage in the last days of the campaign and we had seen a swing to Leave would we be saying the same thing?
    I think Lilico is arguing from a false premise (two, in fact: the polls were not giving a 10% lead on average at that time). Single-issue events have to be 9/11 sized to move the polls. I was tracking the polls last year when the two terrorist outrages occurred and when you compare polls from the same company across the events they really don't make a difference: a brief blip at best. What was the most dramatic poll change in UK in the 2010's? Nick Clegg in the debates. What happened in the election? The LD's lost seats.
    I think my point is not about the swing but more about two other things.

    Firstly Is it right to assert that the murder of Jo Cox was a political assassination or the was it the action of someone with mental health issues for a nominal political reason?

    Secondly a wider political observation - just because an idiot says it doesnt mean it’s wrong. You see plenty of people raging about Trump or Boris saying something who would think it was fine if Corbyn said it.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,139

    Oort said:

    Today I posted a Christmas parcel to my son who is working in Turkey. The postmistress in this very white part of Scotland wondered for a moment whether Turkey was already in the EU before deciding that they're "not in just yet". The Tories got less than a sixth of the vote here in the 2017 GE, and less than a twelfth in 2015, and the small business class in this part of the world is mainly SNP or Labour. She was not interested in my referencing David Cameron's observation that at the current rate of progress Turkey won't join the EU before the year 3000. Nor did she care to learn that accession requires unanimity, and that it is extremely improbable that parties supporting actual full accession by Turkey will form parliamentary majorities, in coalitions or otherwise, in Germany, Hungary, Austria, Croatia, the Netherlands, and Poland, or indeed even in a single one of those countries. On the contrary, she spoke as if I were a fool for not having drunk up heard the Leave propaganda to the effect that Remaining in the EU would inevitably lead to a large influx of Turks to Britain, since Turkey is about to become a member state. I soon fell back to my staple impersonation of John Cleese's character in the village idiot sketch.

    We Remainers will have our work seriously cut out for us in a future referendum.

    Isn't it sill British government policy that Turkey should become a member of the EU ?
    The British Government has a policy????
  • Were they ignored - I thought they had a vote like everyone else.
    Do young people only become young people at the age of 18?
    True, they should really become young people at whatever age Alec Salmond thinks they're useful voting fodder.
    Still hanging on Eck's pronouncements? You have now officially moved from young to old fogey.
  • OortOort Posts: 96

    Oort said:

    Today I posted a Christmas parcel to my son who is working in Turkey. The postmistress in this very white part of Scotland wondered for a moment whether Turkey was already in the EU before deciding that they're "not in just yet". The Tories got less than a sixth of the vote here in the 2017 GE, and less than a twelfth in 2015, and the small business class in this part of the world is mainly SNP or Labour. She was not interested in my referencing David Cameron's observation that at the current rate of progress Turkey won't join the EU before the year 3000. Nor did she care to learn that accession requires unanimity, and that it is extremely improbable that parties supporting actual full accession by Turkey will form parliamentary majorities, in coalitions or otherwise, in Germany, Hungary, Austria, Croatia, the Netherlands, and Poland, or indeed even in a single one of those countries. On the contrary, she spoke as if I were a fool for not having drunk up heard the Leave propaganda to the effect that Remaining in the EU would inevitably lead to a large influx of Turks to Britain, since Turkey is about to become a member state. I soon fell back to my staple impersonation of John Cleese's character in the village idiot sketch.

    We Remainers will have our work seriously cut out for us in a future referendum.

    Isn't it sill British government policy that Turkey should become a member of the EU ?
    I don't think Britain has a policy any more on who should join the EU, but to the extent that Britain is a member state and Turkey is supposedly on the road to membership, yes. Note my use of the word "actual". Turkey is not going to join the EU.
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    edited December 2018

    Oort said:

    Today I posted a Christmas parcel to my son who is working in Turkey. The postmistress in this very white part of Scotland wondered for a moment whether Turkey was already in the EU before deciding that they're "not in just yet". The Tories got less than a sixth of the vote here in the 2017 GE, and less than a twelfth in 2015, and the small business class in this part of the world is mainly SNP or Labour. She was not interested in my referencing David Cameron's observation that at the current rate of progress Turkey won't join the EU before the year 3000. Nor did she care to learn that accession requires unanimity, and that it is extremely improbable that parties supporting actual full accession by Turkey will form parliamentary majorities, in coalitions or otherwise, in Germany, Hungary, Austria, Croatia, the Netherlands, and Poland, or indeed even in a single one of those countries. On the contrary, she spoke as if I were a fool for not having drunk up heard the Leave propaganda to the effect that Remaining in the EU would inevitably lead to a large influx of Turks to Britain, since Turkey is about to become a member state. I soon fell back to my staple impersonation of John Cleese's character in the village idiot sketch.

    We Remainers will have our work seriously cut out for us in a future referendum.

    Isn't it sill British government policy that Turkey should become a member of the EU ?
    What is that to do with us? We're soon to be a third country. Here's what the EU think.

    https://ec.europa.eu/neighbourhood-enlargement/countries/check-current-status_en

    I think it's safe to say Turkey's application isn't being fast-tracked.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,742
    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    John_M said:

    John_M said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    I still prefer my solution to the backstop which is everyone just pretends it doesn't exist. Self delusion is all the rage.

    Remind me?
    Of what? The solution? It's as simple as I said - it happens, we just pretend it doesn't. No problem.

    If you thought I had an actual good solution I'm sorry for getting your hopes up.
    Ah right. Sadly, I fear JRM and co. would believe the backstop was still there even if the EU agreed to scrap it.
    I liked (though can't recall who suggested it), co-sovereignty of Northern Island. I'm sure we could do something suitably retro to assuage unionist fears, a la Andorra.
    You must be joking - even Britain is not British enough for the unionists and 'compromise' is not in their lexicon.
    I jest not. The Unionists are, bluntly, on the wrong side of history and demographics. If they don't flex, then a united Ireland beckons.
    That may be so but I do think that 'the wrong side of history' is a common but dumb phrase in a lot of ways.
    Khrushchev told Eisenhower he was on the wrong side of history and Eisenhower's grandson would be a Communist.

    Not only was Khrushchev wrong about history, his own son is an unabashed capitalist who is an American citizen.
    Nikita had his moments, but was famously bonkers.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,494

    Were they ignored - I thought they had a vote like everyone else.
    Do young people only become young people at the age of 18?
    True, they should really become young people at whatever age Alec Salmond thinks they're useful voting fodder.
    Still hanging on Eck's pronouncements? You have now officially moved from young to old fogey.
    :)
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,505
    edited December 2018

    Were they ignored - I thought they had a vote like everyone else.
    If the demographics were the other way round the europhiles would be applauding the wisdom and experience of the old, and berating the ignorance and foolishness of the youth who hadn't accumulated enough knowledge yet to vote.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,742

    kle4 said:

    Of all the arguments on Brexit it is not the strongest. Oh woe is me, people besides the young vote, and how dare they come to a different conclusion about what is best for the future, so let's call it betrayal because I'm a old self pitier.

    His teary eyes do not move me in the slightest when he makes moronic arguments.
    For a GE vote most will live throughout the period of the parliament being elected so all have a more or less equal stake in the outcome.

    With constitutional change maybe we should each get a weight to our vote proportional to our remaining expected lifespan? So n 18 year old might get 70 votes (LE at 18 = 88) and a 70 year old would only get 10 votes (LE at 80 = 90).

    Should go down well with the Tory party members. :wink:
    Constitutional changes are not necessarily for life.
    They may just be for Christmas...
  • Were they ignored - I thought they had a vote like everyone else.
    Do young people only become young people at the age of 18?
    No, they only become adults at the age of 18.
This discussion has been closed.