I think one area that'll be much bigger next time is Lab tax plans.
The dementia tax was a disaster for Con this time and cost them a lot of votes.
The garden tax could easily do the same to Lab next time.
Garden tax didn't affect Lab this time as it was overshadowed by all the negatives in the Con manifesto. But without these negatives, it'll be far easier for Con to frighten people about Lab's tax plans.
Of course if Lab is sensible they would just drop any mention of the Land Value Tax from their manifesto. But that's not Corbyn's style - he's very honest about what he wants to do.
Haha how many potential labour voters will be worried about a land value tax / garden tax? Suspect the vast majority who would be affected would either never vote labour anyway or (like me) recognise that public services have to be paid for and are chronically underfunded.
I'm not sure that's right - Lab did particularly well this time amongst middle classes.
As I understand it LVT will affect all home owners. Lab certainly can't win a GE without the votes of home owners.
Well, you may be right, MikeL - time will tell I guess - but from my experience here in Tory Dorsetshire many more people worry about services (especially the NHS which is very important to the over 50s) than taxes.
You made another good point in your earlier post:
"Of course if Lab is sensible they would just drop any mention of the Land Value Tax from their manifesto. But that's not Corbyn's style - he's very honest about what he wants to do."
Don't underestimate how refreshing that is to many voters :-)
It will be his dementia tax in the next election. It is absolutely toxic
It may be toxic for many older/wealthier people, but it's pretty much impossible not to start seriously taxing property/wealth.
All of the three main parties have faced up to that.
The question is how to do it.
The most likely solution is the obvious (and least unpopular) one: Inflation.
Intriguing - how does that raise money for public services Pong?
I don't think that a Corbyn win at the next election is inevitable or is yet probable. There is all to play for and there are forces pulling in opposite directions. Clearly Labour have momentum and their moral is high, they have a good ground operation and so on. Against that: 1. The more affluent Southern wins are likely to be lost when a Labour victory look likely and the full taxation implications sink in. 2. Term time or vacation? 3. Forensic examination of Labour's economic policies. 4. A tactically sound Tory leadership can pitch popular measures (e.g. security ) that Labour moderates might support but Corbyn cannot - he is highly rigid on certain (most) topics. 5. Labour are as split as the Tories on multiple issues including Brexit. 6. Labour have exposed flanks on security, economic policy, immigration in terms of the majority of voters. The weird campaigh that just finished did not debate detail in any area.
It depends on Tory leadership and events, state of Brexit and economy and above all tactics and timing. May must be replaced of course!
There were almost certainly a lot of Conservative-leaning voters who didn't vote Tory at this election because they didn't think Theresa May deserved a big majority. But they would certainly vote Tory at the next election if there was a real chance of Corbyn winning, which no-one expected on 8th June.
The next election will either lead to a very heavy Tory defeat to socialism. Or, Corbyn might be found out (he hasn't changed, you know) the Tories pick a decent leader, reform their image, and stay in office.
You know what you could do to help him get found out? Reverse Brexit. He be left as the only one still in favour and we'd return to the positioning of the early 80s with a split Labour party. Of course that would require a whole swathe of the Tory party to realise the error of their ways en masse.
I think one area that'll be much bigger next time is Lab tax plans.
The dementia tax was a disaster for Con this time and cost them a lot of votes.
The garden tax could easily do the same to Lab next time.
Garden tax didn't affect Lab this time as it was overshadowed by all the negatives in the Con manifesto. But without these negatives, it'll be far easier for Con to frighten people about Lab's tax plans.
Of course if Lab is sensible they would just drop any mention of the Land Value Tax from their manifesto. But that's not Corbyn's style - he's very honest about what he wants to do.
Haha how many potential labour voters will be worried about a land value tax / garden tax? Suspect the vast majority who would be affected would either never vote labour anyway or (like me) recognise that public services have to be paid for and are chronically underfunded.
I'm not sure that's right - Lab did particularly well this time amongst middle classes.
As I understand it LVT will affect all home owners. Lab certainly can't win a GE without the votes of home owners.
Well, you may be right, MikeL - time will tell I guess - but from my experience here in Tory Dorsetshire many more people worry about services (especially the NHS which is very important to the over 50s) than taxes.
You made another good point in your earlier post:
"Of course if Lab is sensible they would just drop any mention of the Land Value Tax from their manifesto. But that's not Corbyn's style - he's very honest about what he wants to do."
Don't underestimate how refreshing that is to many voters :-)
It will be his dementia tax in the next election. It is absolutely toxic
It may be toxic for many older/wealthier people, but it's pretty much impossible not to start seriously taxing property/wealth.
All of the three main parties have faced up to that.
The question is how to do it.
The most likely solution is the obvious (and least unpopular) one: Inflation.
Agreed. But a random catastrophic estate tax which wipes out families already destroyed by a grotesque illness is a particularly ugly way to do it.
So all the Commons Brexit stuff will be managed and overseen by Andrea Leadsom.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA,.
Theresa May does have a sense of humour.
At what point will you stop attacking your own party?
I thought that too. Along with his favourite pin up, George Osborne, they are doing Labour's work for them. Osborne has gone far beyond legitimate criticism.
We used to accuse Corbyn of being a Tory sleeper agent. Perhaps TSE and Osborne are Labour sleeper agents.
Bollocks. May is reaping what she sowed. And it's well deserved.
France has never been so divided - so say both PS and LR Leaders on France24 just now.
50% abstentions - I guess a new high
So, although France will be a one party state for the next five years do not mistake that for unanimity of purpose.
"France is unconvinced"
Poor showing of FN - I guess they provide a lot of the abstentions.
Strong condemnation of voting system.
MLP herself got 45% of the vote in her seat apparently, so a saving grace for her if she manages to win in r2. Otherwise she may be on her way out, after a campaign showing far fewer seats than the polls (which were going up to 18 seats).
The dementia tax was a disaster for Con this time and cost them a lot of votes.
The garden tax could easily do the same to Lab next time.
Garden tax didn't affect Lab this time as it was overshadowed by all the negatives in the Con manifesto. But without these negatives, it'll be far easier for Con to frighten people about Lab's tax plans.
The so-called "garden tax" was a figment of the choreographed imagination of the Tory press. It didn't affect Labour this time because it didn't exist and the electorate was able to see right through such a risible attempt to con them.
I think one area that'll be much bigger next time is Lab tax plans.
The dementia tax was a disaster for Con this time and cost them a lot of votes.
The garden tax could easily do the same to Lab next time.
Garden tax didn't affect Lab this time as it was overshadowed by all the negatives in the Con manifesto. But without these negatives, it'll be far easier for Con to frighten people about Lab's tax plans.
Of course if Lab is sensible they would just drop any mention of the Land Value Tax from their manifesto. But that's not Corbyn's style - he's very honest about what he wants to do.
Haha how many potential labour voters will be worried about a land value tax / garden tax? Suspect the vast majority who would be affected would either never vote labour anyway or (like me) recognise that public services have to be paid for and are chronically underfunded.
I'm not sure that's right - Lab did particularly well this time amongst middle classes.
As I understand it LVT will affect all home owners. Lab certainly can't win a GE without the votes of home owners.
Well, you may be right, MikeL - time will tell I guess - but from my experience here in Tory Dorsetshire many more people worry about services (especially the NHS which is very important to the over 50s) than taxes.
You made another good point in your earlier post:
"Of course if Lab is sensible they would just drop any mention of the Land Value Tax from their manifesto. But that's not Corbyn's style - he's very honest about what he wants to do."
Don't underestimate how refreshing that is to many voters :-)
It will be his dementia tax in the next election. It is absolutely toxic
Why was it not toxic this time then?
It was never raised and drowned out by May's robotic campaign. It and the large corporation tax rises will be at the heart of the next election
Large corporation taxes?!? - that really rattles Mr & Mrs Joe Public...
The proposal was to raise to 26% I think (for large profits) which compares well with 35-47% (USA), 33% (France), 32% (Japan), 29% (Germany)...
How many of those are leaving the EU ? The 'right' rate is entirely contingent on circumstances.
Watching the Tory party eat itself is harrowing. Someone needs to be humane and put it out of its misery.
It's like one of those scenes in X Factor where it thought it was the next Sinatra, but discovered the hard way it can't sing a note.
Brutal. If not cruel.
Oh, it's wonderful. The entertainment highlight of my decade. What an unmitigated humiliation. This country will be all the better when we have seen off these ideologues.
Lol The Tories won't die off. That's a prediction as crackers as the demise of Labour was.
A scenario that ends with a Tory wipeout worse than 1997 is perfectly conceivable. Tories and DUP press on, on their own, with a hard Brexit (with some concessions to NI), the UK takes an economic hit compounded by the EU's intention that we should be seen to suffer from our departure, the ensuing downturn is owned entirely by the Tories, compounding the serious damage to their credibility and reputation delivered last Thursday; when the election finally comes, all Blair's records are broken.
Perhaps, we then end up with a Corbyn and McDonnell majority, renationalisations, big tax increases, companies moving abroad as corporation tax is increased, unions flexing their muscles, the deficit and debt and borrowing increasing all coupled with a UK still leaving the EU and single market. We could be an economic basket case in no time and any half sensible Tory leader could make a quicker recovery than Lazarus. Though hopefully Boris taking over in the autumn, dumping dementia tax, restoring free school lunches etc and offering a more fudged Brexit could avert the disaster of a Corbyn government
The problem the Tory party has it that it is dependent on the votes of UKIP types - perhaps 5 to 10% of its 42% share. When it fails to deliver a hard Brexit (which it will) they will return to UKIP.
I don't think that a Corbyn win at the next election is inevitable or is yet probable. There is all to play for and there are forces pulling in opposite directions. Clearly Labour have momentum and their moral is high, they have a good ground operation and so on. Against that: 1. The more affluent Southern wins are likely to be lost when a Labour victory look likely and the full taxation implications sink in. 2. Term time or vacation? 3. Forensic examination of Labour's economic policies. 4. A tactically sound Tory leadership can pitch popular measures (e.g. security ) that Labour moderates might support but Corbyn cannot - he is highly rigid on certain (most) topics. 5. Labour are as split as the Tories on multiple issues including Brexit. 6. Labour have exposed flanks on security, economic policy, immigration in terms of the majority of voters. The weird campaigh that just finished did not debate detail in any area.
It depends on Tory leadership and events, state of Brexit and economy and above all tactics and timing. May must be replaced of course!
There were almost certainly a lot of Conservative-leaning voters who didn't vote Tory at this election because they didn't think Theresa May deserved a big majority. But they would certainly vote Tory at the next election if there was a real chance of Corbyn winning, which no-one expected on 8th June.
The next election will either lead to a very heavy Tory defeat to socialism. Or, Corbyn might be found out (he hasn't changed, you know) the Tories pick a decent leader, reform their image, and stay in office.
You know what you could do to help him get found out? Reverse Brexit. He be left as the only one still in favour and we'd return to the positioning of the early 80s with a split Labour party. Of course that would require a whole swathe of the Tory party to realise the error of their ways en masse.
By god you're getting desperate now.
The only desperation I have seen on here over the past few days is that from socially conservative Hard Brexit loving Mayites who have just seen their world collapse at the hands of the electorate.
So all the Commons Brexit stuff will be managed and overseen by Andrea Leadsom.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA,.
Theresa May does have a sense of humour.
At what point will you stop attacking your own party?
It's not an attack, it's a humourous observation
Look who has been proved right about Osborne's £9k per year tuition fees:
' David Davis, the former shadow home secretary and senior Conservative MP, is to vote against Government plans to raise tuition fees, he disclosed last night.
Mr Davis said he was concerned that forcing students to pay up to £9,000 a year would hamper social mobility and saddle young people with excessive debts.
"I simply don't agree that university should be this expensive," he told the Daily Telegraph.
“I’m concerned about the effect this would have on social mobility and the huge level of debt we are encouraging young people to take on.
“People in their twenties are very much more indebted than I was when I was a student and that is something I don’t believe we can allow to continue.
“I have always been against tuition fees. In 2005 our policy was abolition and I was one of the drivers behind that.” '
I think one area that'll be much bigger next time is Lab tax plans.
The dementia tax was a disaster for Con this time and cost them a lot of votes.
The garden tax could easily do the same to Lab next time.
Garden tax didn't affect Lab this time as it was overshadowed by all the negatives in the Con manifesto. But without these negatives, it'll be far easier for Con to frighten people about Lab's tax plans.
Of course if Lab is sensible they would just drop any mention of the Land Value Tax from their manifesto. But that's not Corbyn's style - he's very honest about what he wants to do.
Haha how many potential labour voters will be worried about a land value tax / garden tax? Suspect the vast majority who would be affected would either never vote labour anyway or (like me) recognise that public services have to be paid for and are chronically underfunded.
I'm not sure that's right - Lab did particularly well this time amongst middle classes.
As I understand it LVT will affect all home owners. Lab certainly can't win a GE without the votes of home owners.
Well, you may be right, MikeL - time will tell I guess - but from my experience here in Tory Dorsetshire many more people worry about services (especially the NHS which is very important to the over 50s) than taxes.
You made another good point in your earlier post:
"Of course if Lab is sensible they would just drop any mention of the Land Value Tax from their manifesto. But that's not Corbyn's style - he's very honest about what he wants to do."
Don't underestimate how refreshing that is to many voters :-)
It will be his dementia tax in the next election. It is absolutely toxic
It may be toxic for many older/wealthier people, but it's pretty much impossible not to start seriously taxing property/wealth.
All of the three main parties have faced up to that.
The question is how to do it.
The most likely solution is the obvious (and least unpopular) one: Inflation.
I think that's probably true, which is why we need to tax investment on property rather than where people live. Additional taxes on second property is the only thing that makes sense, additional taxes on property that people live in will cause a lot of hurt.
I think one area that'll be much bigger next time is Lab tax plans.
The dementia tax was a disaster for Con this time and cost them a lot of votes.
The garden tax could easily do the same to Lab next time.
Garden tax didn't affect Lab this time as it was overshadowed by all the negatives in the Con manifesto. But without these negatives, it'll be far easier for Con to frighten people about Lab's tax plans.
Of course if Lab is sensible they would just drop any mention of the Land Value Tax from their manifesto. But that's not Corbyn's style - he's very honest about what he wants to do.
Haha how many potential labour voters will be worried about a land value tax / garden tax? Suspect the vast majority who would be affected would either never vote labour anyway or (like me) recognise that public services have to be paid for and are chronically underfunded.
I'm not sure that's right - Lab did particularly well this time amongst middle classes.
As I understand it LVT will affect all home owners. Lab certainly can't win a GE without the votes of home owners.
Well, you may be right, MikeL - time will tell I guess - but from my experience here in Tory Dorsetshire many more people worry about services (especially the NHS which is very important to the over 50s) than taxes.
You made another good point in your earlier post:
"Of course if Lab is sensible they would just drop any mention of the Land Value Tax from their manifesto. But that's not Corbyn's style - he's very honest about what he wants to do."
Don't underestimate how refreshing that is to many voters :-)
It will be his dementia tax in the next election. It is absolutely toxic
It may be toxic for many older/wealthier people, but it's pretty much impossible not to start seriously taxing property/wealth.
All of the three main parties have faced up to that.
The question is how to do it.
The most likely solution is the obvious (and least unpopular) one: Inflation.
You saw the response to the so called dementia tax - LVT will be just as much if not more toxic
I don't see it that way. The dementia tax is difficult to justify morally. Land tax is not and, indeed, is very common around the world. I was able to convert many garden tax skeptics on the doorstep last week. Everyone acknowledges house prices are out of whack. They were convinced when I argued that a measure which would stop people lusting after house value increases would be a jolly good thing for the country.
'Large corporation taxes?!? - that really rattles Mr & Mrs Joe Public...
The proposal was to raise to 26% I think (for large profits) which compares well with 35-47% (USA), 33% (France), 32% (Japan), 29% (Germany).'
It is simply madness to consider large rises in corporation tax, particularly because of fBrexit. Only this morning a report from Northern Ireland referred to Corbyn's corporation tax rises and condemned it as many companies have said they would relocate to Ireland at 12.5%. Furthermore Macron is seeking to reduce the tax to 25% and Trump to 15%.
It says something when Vince Cable condemns it and the SNP would not raise it to Corbyn's levels
I think one area that'll be much bigger next time is Lab tax plans.
The dementia tax was a disaster for Con this time and cost them a lot of votes.
The garden tax could easily do the same to Lab next time.
Garden tax didn't affect Lab this time as it was overshadowed by all the negatives in the Con manifesto. But without these negatives, it'll be far easier for Con to frighten people about Lab's tax plans.
Of course if Lab is sensible they would just drop any mention of the Land Value Tax from their manifesto. But that's not Corbyn's style - he's very honest about what he wants to do.
Haha how many potential labour voters will be worried about a land value tax / garden tax? Suspect the vast majority who would be affected would either never vote labour anyway or (like me) recognise that public services have to be paid for and are chronically underfunded.
I'm not sure that's right - Lab did particularly well this time amongst middle classes.
As I understand it LVT will affect all home owners. Lab certainly can't win a GE without the votes of home owners.
Well, you may be right, MikeL - time will tell I guess - but from my experience here in Tory Dorsetshire many more people worry about services (especially the NHS which is very important to the over 50s) than taxes.
You made another good point in your earlier post:
"Of course if Lab is sensible they would just drop any mention of the Land Value Tax from their manifesto. But that's not Corbyn's style - he's very honest about what he wants to do."
Don't underestimate how refreshing that is to many voters :-)
It will be his dementia tax in the next election. It is absolutely toxic
Why was it not toxic this time then?
It was never raised and drowned out by May's robotic campaign. It and the large corporation tax rises will be at the heart of the next election
Large corporation taxes?!? - that really rattles Mr & Mrs Joe Public...
The proposal was to raise to 26% I think (for large profits) which compares well with 35-47% (USA), 33% (France), 32% (Japan), 29% (Germany). Doesn't sound like a deal-breaker to me tbh.
Obviously, the press barons will hate it, so LAbour might not be able to count on much support from most of the papers (oh).
It is lower in Ireland and Switzerland will soon be cut in the US too, companies can easily locate there
Watching the Tory party eat itself is harrowing. Someone needs to be humane and put it out of its misery.
It's like one of those scenes in X Factor where it thought it was the next Sinatra, but discovered the hard way it can't sing a note.
Brutal. If not cruel.
Oh, it's wonderful. The entertainment highlight of my decade. What an unmitigated humiliation. This country will be all the better when we have seen off these ideologues.
Lol The Tories won't die off. That's a prediction as crackers as the demise of Labour was.
A scenario that ends with a Tory wipeout worse than 1997 is perfectly conceivable. Tories and DUP press on, on their own, with a hard Brexit (with some concessions to NI), the UK takes an economic hit compounded by the EU's intention that we should be seen to suffer from our departure, the ensuing downturn is owned entirely by the Tories, compounding the serious damage to their credibility and reputation delivered last Thursday; when the election finally comes, all Blair's records are broken.
Perhaps, we then end up with a Corbyn and McDonnell majority, renationalisations, big tax increases, companies moving abroad as corporation tax is increased, unions flexing their muscles, the deficit and debt and borrowing increasing all coupled with a UK still leaving the EU and single market. We could be an economic basket case in no time and any half sensible Tory leader could make a quicker recovery than Lazarus. Though hopefully Boris taking over in the autumn, dumping dementia tax, restoring free school lunches etc and offering a more fudged Brexit could avert the disaster of a Corbyn government
The problem the Tory party has it that it is dependent on the votes of UKIP types - perhaps 5 to 10% of its 42% share. When it fails to deliver a hard Brexit (which it will) they will return to UKIP.
When the country becomes Venezuela without the sunshine the Tory Party will no longer need the votes of Kippers to win, it will need the votes of anyone with half a brain!
So all the Commons Brexit stuff will be managed and overseen by Andrea Leadsom.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA,.
Theresa May does have a sense of humour.
At what point will you stop attacking your own party?
I thought that too. Along with his favourite pin up, George Osborne, they are doing Labour's work for them. Osborne has gone far beyond legitimate criticism.
We used to accuse Corbyn of being a Tory sleeper agent. Perhaps TSE and Osborne are Labour sleeper agents.
Bollocks. May is reaping what she sowed. And it's well deserved.
Watching the Tory party eat itself is harrowing. Someone needs to be humane and put it out of its misery.
It's like one of those scenes in X Factor where it thought it was the next Sinatra, but discovered the hard way it can't sing a note.
Brutal. If not cruel.
Oh, it's wonderful. The entertainment highlight of my decade. What an unmitigated humiliation. This country will be all the better when we have seen off these ideologues.
Lol The Tories won't die off. That's a prediction as crackers as the demise of Labour was.
A scenario that ends with a Tory wipeout worse than 1997 is perfectly conceivable. Tories and DUP press on, on their own, with a hard Brexit (with some concessions to NI), the UK takes an economic hit compounded by the EU's intention that we should be seen to suffer from our departure, the ensuing downturn is owned entirely by the Tories, compounding the serious damage to their credibility and reputation delivered last Thursday; when the election finally comes, all Blair's records are broken.
Perhaps, we then end up with a Corbyn and McDonnell majority, renationalisations, big tax increases, companies moving abroad as corporation tax is increased, unions flexing their muscles, the deficit and debt and borrowing increasing all coupled with a UK still leaving the EU and single market. We could be an economic basket case in no time and any half sensible Tory leader could make a quicker recovery than Lazarus. Though hopefully Boris taking over in the autumn, dumping dementia tax, restoring free school lunches etc and offering a more fudged Brexit could avert the disaster of a Corbyn government
The problem the Tory party has it that it is dependent on the votes of UKIP types - perhaps 5 to 10% of its 42% share. When it fails to deliver a hard Brexit (which it will) they will return to UKIP.
When the country becomes Venezuela without the sunshine the Tory Party will no longer need the votes of Kippers to win, it will need the votes of anyone with half a brain!
Lol, two elections away! Who knows what state the Tories will be in by then?
Looks like probably won't be another election for at least a couple of years. Tories from all wings of the party don't want to risk Corbyn and McDonnell getting into office.
Comments
NEW THREAD
The 'right' rate is entirely contingent on circumstances.
- £1000 on constituency and seats bets mainly on the Tories - lost £800
- £500 hedge on a NOC at an average of 9/1 - profit £4,500
Overall ROI 246%
'Large corporation taxes?!? - that really rattles Mr & Mrs Joe Public...
The proposal was to raise to 26% I think (for large profits) which compares well with 35-47% (USA), 33% (France), 32% (Japan), 29% (Germany).'
It is simply madness to consider large rises in corporation tax, particularly because of fBrexit. Only this morning a report from Northern Ireland referred to Corbyn's corporation tax rises and condemned it as many companies have said they would relocate to Ireland at 12.5%. Furthermore Macron is seeking to reduce the tax to 25% and Trump to 15%.
It says something when Vince Cable condemns it and the SNP would not raise it to Corbyn's levels