Thoughts on who would be the best Stop Boris candidate?
I'd have thought Hammond is in a good position. The fact of his having being sidelined during the campaign will now be to his advantage.
Sorry, Hammond would almost certainly not beat Corbyn, he is too dull and establishment for the current mood of the electorate and like May was a Remainer and as Chancellor is wedded to austerity, if a little less than Osborne, Boris is charismatic and populist and the only viable option
Boris means a Corbyn government. It's that simple.
Completely wrong, not Boris means a Corbyn government. It's that simple. Eg on London news yesterday they had a woman who said she would have voted for Boris though she did not vote for May
We have a circus already. We do not need to put a clown in charge.
If the Tory party thinks government is such a joke -- they will be simply thrashed by Corbyn. Even I would vote Labour in that scenario (I have never done so).
and as you are hardly a regular Tory voter losing your support makes little difference if it gains votes from elsewhere
Yeah this strategy of alienating moderates like Gardenwalker in the hopes of gaining socially conservative voters has been an unmitigated disaster and back fired badly.
The Tories didn't realise that Brexit was basically an anti-incumbency vote. Going to the country again was madness. They misread the reasons for the first result and I'm confident they will misread the reasons for the second. It will be wonderful to watch their fall.
You are aware that after Labour's best campaign ever, and the Tories' worst, the far left nutters are still 64 seats away from a majority?
Largest increase popular vote since 1945, achieved from a standing start against a hostile press and a hostile parliamentary party. Just wait until Labour gets its shit together. The Tories are toast.
I'm looking forward to Corbyn's first appearance in Parliament. The jokes are over. He is now the most authoritative person on the green benches.
64 seats short of a majority after the Tories spent the election punching their own voters in the face. I'm a natural pessimist (hence the name), but if the Tories reverse those crappy tactics it makes the push for a Labour majority less than straightforward.
Not to mention that next time Labour will receive actual scrutiny about what having Corbyn in charge of the nukes an Abbott in charge of MI5 would really mean. How many votes were essentially pity shags intended to save the party from the annihilation predicted by the polls?
Well that lot looks alot better for Labour than the post 2015 position.
It's extraordinary to see from that just how close Labour were to being largest Party.
I'm telling you now, there are a fair few normal non voters in that Tory total who won't bother normally for the Tories. They voted for Brexit, they voted for May. That will be IT methinks so far as the deal goes. They won't bother in the autumn.
Well that lot looks alot better for Labour than the post 2015 position.
It's extraordinary to see from that just how close Labour were to being largest Party.
I'm telling you now, there are a fair few normal non voters in that Tory total who won't bother normally for the Tories. They voted for Brexit, they voted for May. That will be IT methinks so far as the deal goes. They won't bother in the autumn.
I fear that you're right on that. But if the country wants Jezza, I say let them have him.
Completely wrong, not Boris means a Corbyn government. It's that simple. Eg on London news yesterday they had a woman who said she would have voted for Boris though she did not vote for May
One whole woman? Wow!
Well show me 1 person who did not vote for May and would vote for Rudd, Fallon or Hammond in a swing seat?
To prove what? That "not Boris means a Corbyn government." Don't be silly. That's a hypothesis that can be argued for only logically, not empirically.
Individual anecdotes can be amusing but seldom generalise well. I was door knocking in Brentford & Isleworth on election day. One gentleman, a long time Labour voter and Corbyn fan, voted Tory because the Labour candidate refused to put Corbyn on her leaflets. I praised his principled stand, but we still turned a 400 vote majority into 12,000.
The only Tory who is actually thinking long term. We need to get Labour, at least, involved with Brexit negotiations. We didn't win a majority, the public have not endorsed our Brexit plan (as vague as that was). It wouldn't be correct for the Conservatives to now push ahead with the Tory Brexit plan without any Labour input. We didn't win a mandate for it during the Brexit election.
Theresa should have had an alternative speech on Friday morning.
"Last night was a difficult night for myself and my party, though we finished with more votes than the opposition and the most seats in Parliament, it is clear that the British public have not given us their full endorsement for our Brexit plan. For that reason I will resign as party leader and PM once I have put a queens speech through parliament and trigger a leadership election within the Conservative party. I will stay on as PM and leader in the interim and will ask Labour's Brexit representative Kier Starmer to join a cross party Brexit negotiation committee to get the process of Brexit started before the next PM has been elected by my party."
That speech would have salvaged what little she has left of her reputation. Instead she is shaming our party and country by clinging on.
I agree that would have been the right move. Unfortunately it would have required a Tory to put their country ahead of their party. Never gonna happen.
Sad but true. A huge +1 for MaxPB's post.
Blimey, yes. I think that would have been sensible.
The Tories didn't realise that Brexit was basically an anti-incumbency vote. Going to the country again was madness. They misread the reasons for the first result and I'm confident they will misread the reasons for the second. It will be wonderful to watch their fall.
You are aware that after Labour's best campaign ever, and the Tories' worst, the far left nutters are still 64 seats away from a majority?
and very close to a majority. Scotland is an inch away from being dominated by Labour again, go look at some of the SNP central belt majorities, likewise I think someone posted here earlier about a list of 63 seats labour would gain on the smallest of swings. And if Boris was elected leader Labour would be nailed on to win in 2022.
Anna Soubry should of lost on Thurday considering the other seats that were lost, tories would do well to reflect on the campaign she ran in her constituency. I am saying this as LEAVER who leans Tory. The going after the UKIP vote strategy has beeen a complete disaster and cost Tories safe seats like Kensington.
Go back seven weeks and tell Conservatives they'd lose their majority from a 20 point lead and they either ask what care in the community project you were in or that the Messiah has endorsed Jezza .... or probably both.
True to say we have political experts on here.Did anyone bet on a hung parliament ?
Yes. Me. And I told people on here.
You also told us that it would be a 40-70 majority.
Okay, that's a bit unfair, there's value in betting on things if you think their odds are longer than their likelihood.
But I think there's always more value in the constituency bets than on straight majority betting.
The smallest majorities. SNP were quite lucky in the end. If the election was next week they would probably have lost another eight seats, mostly to Labour. In England Labour managed 7 wins with majorities of under 300.
Well that lot looks alot better for Labour than the post 2015 position.
It's extraordinary to see from that just how close Labour were to being largest Party.
I'm telling you now, there are a fair few normal non voters in that Tory total who won't bother normally for the Tories. They voted for Brexit, they voted for May. That will be IT methinks so far as the deal goes. They won't bother in the autumn.
I think you have to try and put off holding another election for at least a couple of years. And if Brexit is a disaster then they could be finished anyway.
Far too many warning signs from this election, simply saying a crap Manifesto and campaign under a poor leader purely led to this is silly. Real danger signs there that might be ignored.
The only Tory who is actually thinking long term. We need to get Labour, at least, involved with Brexit negotiations. We didn't win a majority, the public have not endorsed our Brexit plan (as vague as that was). It wouldn't be correct for the Conservatives to now push ahead with the Tory Brexit plan without any Labour input. We didn't win a mandate for it during the Brexit election.
Theresa should have had an alternative speech on Friday morning.
"Last night was a difficult night for myself and my party, though we finished with more votes than the opposition and the most seats in Parliament, it is clear that the British public have not given us their full endorsement for our Brexit plan. For that reason I will resign as party leader and PM once I have put a queens speech through parliament and trigger a leadership election within the Conservative party. I will stay on as PM and leader in the interim and will ask Labour's Brexit representative Kier Starmer to join a cross party Brexit negotiation committee to get the process of Brexit started before the next PM has been elected by my party."
That speech would have salvaged what little she has left of her reputation. Instead she is shaming our party and country by clinging on.
I agree that would have been the right move. Unfortunately it would have required a Tory to put their country ahead of their party. Never gonna happen.
Thoughts on who would be the best Stop Boris candidate?
I'd have thought Hammond is in a good position. The fact of his having being sidelined during the campaign will now be to his advantage.
Sorry, Hammond would almost certainly not beat Corbyn, he is too dull and establishment for the current mood of the electorate and like May was a Remainer and as Chancellor is wedded to austerity, if a little less than Osborne, Boris is charismatic and populist and the only viable option
Boris means a Corbyn government. It's that simple.
Completely wrong, not Boris means a Corbyn government. It's that simple. Eg on London news yesterday they had a woman who said she would have voted for Boris though she did not vote for May
We have a circus already. We do not need to put a clown in charge.
If the Tory party thinks government is such a joke -- they will be simply thrashed by Corbyn. Even I would vote Labour in that scenario (I have never done so).
and as you are hardly a regular Tory voter losing your support makes little difference if it gains votes from elsewhere
Yeah this strategy of alienating moderates like Gardenwalker in the hopes of gaining socially conservative voters has been an unmitigated disaster and back fired badly.
Boris is not a social conservative and Gardenwalker voted Remain when 52% of the country voted Leave
The Tories didn't realise that Brexit was basically an anti-incumbency vote. Going to the country again was madness. They misread the reasons for the first result and I'm confident they will misread the reasons for the second. It will be wonderful to watch their fall.
You are aware that after Labour's best campaign ever, and the Tories' worst, the far left nutters are still 64 seats away from a majority?
Largest increase popular vote since 1945, achieved from a standing start against a hostile press and a hostile parliamentary party. Just wait until Labour gets its shit together. The Tories are toast.
I'm looking forward to Corbyn's first appearance in Parliament. The jokes are over. He is now the most authoritative person on the green benches.
64 seats short of a majority after the Tories spent the election punching their own voters in the face. I'm a natural pessimist (hence the name), but if the Tories reverse those crappy tactics it makes the push for a Labour majority less than straightforward.
Not to mention that next time Labour will receive actual scrutiny about what having Corbyn in charge of the nukes an Abbott in charge of MI5 would really mean. How many votes were essentially pity shags intended to save the party from the annihilation predicted by the polls?
How many pity shags turn into long term relationships as a result of apathy/familiarity tho?
Completely wrong, not Boris means a Corbyn government. It's that simple. Eg on London news yesterday they had a woman who said she would have voted for Boris though she did not vote for May
One whole woman? Wow!
Well show me 1 person who did not vote for May and would vote for Rudd, Fallon or Hammond in a swing seat?
To prove what? That "not Boris means a Corbyn government." Don't be silly. That's a hypothesis that can be argued for only logically, not empirically.
Individual anecdotes can be amusing but seldom generalise well. I was door knocking in Brentford & Isleworth on election day. One gentleman, a long time Labour voter and Corbyn fan, voted Tory because the Labour candidate refused to put Corbyn on her leaflets. I praised his principled stand, but we still turned a 400 vote majority into 12,000.
That's hilarious, and one vote you should get back next time round!
heres what could have been done in 7 years of Tories in governemnt
did we build a million homes - no did we get a high speed broadband network - no did we get a basic motorway network - no have our modernists reformed the house of Lords - no have we got a high skill high wage economy - no have wages risen - no have we built the infrastructure to accommodate anther 4 million people - no
back in 2010 when you were rightly attacking Brown for doing bugger all little did you imagine your own mob would be just as bad And they are as bad since that list still all has to be done
and as for the voters well its clear you just dont understand them.
A significant part of restrictions on the government was/is the godawful mess left by Labour. The government has to fund the public services as generously as it can but must reduce the deficit (and ultimately the debt) so that in future the billions spent on interest on the county's debt can be used to provide things that the people really need.
How many votes were essentially pity shags intended to save the party from the annihilation predicted by the polls?
The Tories want to believe this. I don't think it's true. The simpler explanations - that they preferred Jeremy's answers to questions and that they preferred the policies in the Labour manifesto - are more likely to be the true ones.
People don't vote for political parties out of pity or to avoid their annihilation. If they did, LD would have done much better in 2015.
Stop trying to contort simple realities to fit your own political preconceptions. It's bad for betting.
Incredible number of marginals. Have to get down to number 80 to hit a 5% majority. The Tories should be very worried.
I said on the previous thread that having let Corbyn get his foot in the door he will charge through it next time. I also think Labour will become the biggest party again in Scotland.
Loughborough remains the bellwether. Get that and you get the keys to Downing St.
Interesting to note that none of the Lab target marginals are LD, all are Tory or SNP.
The Brexit vote was cross-party. Why isn't the UK Brexit team cross-party? (If it had been, we would of course have been spared the farce of the last six weeks.) Brexiteers should be calling for Corbyn and Starmer to be on board - they might not get exactly the Brexit they want, but at least they'll get Brexit. Sensible Remainers should want it too - the Brexit process will do much less damage if it isn't a political football.
Thoughts on who would be the best Stop Boris candidate?
I'd have thought Hammond is in a good position. The fact of his having being sidelined during the campaign will now be to his advantage.
Sorry, Hammond would almost certainly not beat Corbyn, he is too dull and establishment for the current mood of the electorate and like May was a Remainer and as Chancellor is wedded to austerity, if a little less than Osborne, Boris is charismatic and populist and the only viable option
Boris means a Corbyn government. It's that simple.
Completely wrong, not Boris means a Corbyn government. It's that simple. Eg on London news yesterday they had a woman who said she would have voted for Boris though she did not vote for May
We have a circus already. We do not need to put a clown in charge.
If the Tory party thinks government is such a joke -- they will be simply thrashed by Corbyn. Even I would vote Labour in that scenario (I have never done so).
and as you are hardly a regular Tory voter losing your support makes little difference if it gains votes from elsewhere
Yeah this strategy of alienating moderates like Gardenwalker in the hopes of gaining socially conservative voters has been an unmitigated disaster and back fired badly.
Boris is not a social conservative and Gardenwalker voted Remain when 52% of the country voted Leave
Yep. I'm a Tory Remainer. There was a lot of us, but May tried to paint us as the enemy within.
Incredible number of marginals. Have to get down to number 80 to hit a 5% majority. The Tories should be very worried.
I said on the previous thread that having let Corbyn get his foot in the door he will charge through it next time. I also think Labour will become the biggest party again in Scotland.
Loughborough remains the bellwether. Get that and you get the keys to Downing St.
Interesting to note that none of the Lab target marginals are LD, all are Tory or SNP.
Ruth has correctly worked out that weak and wobbly can be pushed around at will. Arlene will be doing the same. May's position is looking utterly untenable, in fact the complete Tory party will do soon if they don't do *something*.
Quite what I'm not sure though.
Panic?
Call another election. Jezza can do a Thomas Aquinus speech from Downing St. Incidentally well done. You saw JC's qualities when most were scrabbling in the dirt looking through his 25 year old diaries
Incredible number of marginals. Have to get down to number 80 to hit a 5% majority. The Tories should be very worried.
I said on the previous thread that having let Corbyn get his foot in the door he will charge through it next time. I also think Labour will become the biggest party again in Scotland.
Loughborough remains the bellwether. Get that and you get the keys to Downing St.
Interesting to note that none of the Lab target marginals are LD, all are Tory or SNP.
Yesterday are showing the Auf Wiedersehen Pet episode where they vote on what colour to paint the hut. Barry: that's democracy Dennis, everybody gets what nobody wants.
heres what could have been done in 7 years of Tories in governemnt
did we build a million homes - no did we get a high speed broadband network - no did we get a basic motorway network - no have our modernists reformed the house of Lords - no have we got a high skill high wage economy - no have wages risen - no have we built the infrastructure to accommodate anther 4 million people - no
back in 2010 when you were rightly attacking Brown for doing bugger all little did you imagine your own mob would be just as bad And they are as bad since that list still all has to be done
and as for the voters well its clear you just dont understand them.
Go back seven weeks and tell Conservatives they'd lose their majority from a 20 point lead and they either ask what care in the community project you were in or that the Messiah has endorsed Jezza .... or probably both.
True to say we have political experts on here.Did anyone bet on a hung parliament ?
Yes. Me. And I told people on here.
You also told us that it would be a 40-70 majority.
Okay, that's a bit unfair, there's value in betting on things if you think their odds are longer than their likelihood.
But I think there's always more value in the constituency bets than on straight majority betting.
I reported back from what I was hearing, which was that they were still thinking a 40-70 majority. I don't think I commented on it.
Incredible number of marginals. Have to get down to number 80 to hit a 5% majority. The Tories should be very worried.
I said on the previous thread that having let Corbyn get his foot in the door he will charge through it next time. I also think Labour will become the biggest party again in Scotland.
Loughborough remains the bellwether. Get that and you get the keys to Downing St.
Interesting to note that none of the Lab target marginals are LD, all are Tory or SNP.
The Tories didn't realise that Brexit was basically an anti-incumbency vote. Going to the country again was madness. They misread the reasons for the first result and I'm confident they will misread the reasons for the second. It will be wonderful to watch their fall.
You are aware that after Labour's best campaign ever, and the Tories' worst, the far left nutters are still 64 seats away from a majority?
and very close to a majority. Scotland is an inch away from being dominated by Labour again, go look at some of the SNP central belt majorities, likewise I think someone posted here earlier about a list of 63 seats labour would gain on the smallest of swings. And if Boris was elected leader Labour would be nailed on to win in 2022.
Anna Soubry should of lost on Thurday considering the other seats that were lost, tories would do well to reflect on the campaign she ran in her constituency. I am saying this as LEAVER who leans Tory. The going after the UKIP vote strategy has beeen a complete disaster and cost Tories safe seats like Kensington.
Is it too simplistic to say that we are back to where we were in 2010, which is the natural state of affairs, and the only reason there was a Con Maj in 2015 was the serious threat of Lab+SNP?
Ruth has correctly worked out that weak and wobbly can be pushed around at will. Arlene will be doing the same. May's position is looking utterly untenable, in fact the complete Tory party will do soon if they don't do *something*.
Quite what I'm not sure though.
Panic?
Call another election. Jezza can do a Thomas Aquinus speech from Downing St. Incidentally well done. You saw JC's qualities when most were scrabbling in the dirt looking through his 25 year old diaries
His 'qualities' involve bribing voters with their own money. Next time I propose the Tories match and exceed Labour's ludicrous giveaways, and see what happens.
Theresa should have had an alternative speech on Friday morning.
"Last night was a difficult night for myself and my party, though we finished with more votes than the opposition and the most seats in Parliament, it is clear that the British public have not given us their full endorsement for our Brexit plan. For that reason I will resign as party leader and PM once I have put a queens speech through parliament and trigger a leadership election within the Conservative party. I will stay on as PM and leader in the interim and will ask Labour's Brexit representative Kier Starmer to join a cross party Brexit negotiation committee to get the process of Brexit started before the next PM has been elected by my party."
That speech would have salvaged what little she has left of her reputation. Instead she is shaming our party and country by clinging on.
I agree that would have been the right move. Unfortunately it would have required a Tory to put their country ahead of their party. Never gonna happen.
Sad but true. A huge +1 for MaxPB's post.
It was a good comment.
It was indeed a good suggestion. I said something similar was needed on a counter-terrorism review commission in the wake of London Bridge.
Sadly it would also require the Labour party to put country above party and join in a non-partisan way.
I fear neither party has the vision to see this at present - but it would be both the right thing to do, and also play very well with the voters at large.
It goes like this:
"OK folks, the country is deeply divided and divisive at present - Brexit, security, NHS and social care challenges. Leadership is about bringing the best talents together to solve problems in the national interest - and I am inviting Labour and the devolved administrations to join me in non-partisan commissions over the next 2 years to discuss and identify common ground on each. This will be the essence of my Queens Speech and I invite the other parties to support me".
Zero to hero overnight. It saves her bacon for 2 years, and gives a platform for the next election that is detoxified. Most importantly it gives the chance in an unsettled parliament with a clearly restive electorate to make progress on contentious issues.
"For a year and more the Daily Mail's editor towered over this country and a craven Tory party did his bidding. Now the electorate has stood up to him"
So we're just going to ignore 17m voters and the biggest democratic mandate for change ever.
How nice.
She's got 13 whole MPs. She is dominant. The world at her feet.
She has not only revived SCon, she has done much to save the Union. I reckon she's a force.
She has indubitably attracted SNP/Leave voters over to Conservative. A vastly impressive feat.
To now turn around and signal Brexit in name only is a sensationally brave move.
She was a particularly vocal and competent advocate for Remain.
While she has come to conclude that Brexit has to go through, she wants Featherbed Soft Brexit.
Which isn't on offer.
Realistically now it must be something like:
Featherbed Soft Brexit 40% WTO / Full North Korea 20% No Brexit 40%
But FSB requires agency and leadership. The other two just require us to sit around and play musical chairs, which is basically all the Tory party has done for the past 12 months.
Ruth has correctly worked out that weak and wobbly can be pushed around at will. Arlene will be doing the same. May's position is looking utterly untenable, in fact the complete Tory party will do soon if they don't do *something*.
Quite what I'm not sure though.
Panic?
Call another election. Jezza can do a Thomas Aquinus speech from Downing St. Incidentally well done. You saw JC's qualities when most were scrabbling in the dirt looking through his 25 year old diaries
His 'qualities' involve bribing voters with their own money. Next time I propose the Tories match and exceed Labour's ludicrous giveaways, and see what happens.
Rather foolish. Tories needed to play the ball this election, but chose to play the man.
Concentrating on hard economic issues, rather than decades old newspaper cuttings would have saved their majority.
So we're just going to ignore 17m voters and the biggest democratic mandate for change ever.
How nice.
She's got 13 whole MPs. She is dominant. The world at her feet.
She has not only revived SCon, she has done much to save the Union. I reckon she's a force.
She has indubitably attracted SNP/Leave voters over to Conservative. A vastly impressive feat.
To now turn around and signal Brexit in name only is a sensationally brave move.
She was a particularly vocal and competent advocate for Remain.
While she has come to conclude that Brexit has to go through, she wants Featherbed Soft Brexit.
Which isn't on offer.
Realistically now it must be something like:
Featherbed Soft Brexit 40% WTO / Full North Korea 20% No Brexit 40%
But FSB requires agency and leadership. The other two just require us to sit around and play musical chairs, which is basically all the Tory party has done for the past 12 months.
So we're just going to ignore 17m voters and the biggest democratic mandate for change ever.
How nice.
She's got 13 whole MPs. She is dominant. The world at her feet.
She has not only revived SCon, she has done much to save the Union. I reckon she's a force.
She has indubitably attracted SNP/Leave voters over to Conservative. A vastly impressive feat.
To now turn around and signal Brexit in name only is a sensationally brave move.
She was a particularly vocal and competent advocate for Remain.
While she has come to conclude that Brexit has to go through, she wants Featherbed Soft Brexit.
Which isn't on offer.
Realistically now it must be something like:
Featherbed Soft Brexit 40% WTO / Full North Korea 20% No Brexit 40%
But FSB requires agency and leadership. The other two just require us to sit around and play musical chairs, which is basically all the Tory party has done for the past 12 months.
The problem is that the voters do seem keen on Featherbed Soft Brexit. Whatever the Tories achieve is going to be less than it. I agree that FSB is probably not possible as the EU would have to agree, but that just sets up the Tories to fail.
How many votes were essentially pity shags intended to save the party from the annihilation predicted by the polls?
The Tories want to believe this. I don't think it's true. The simpler explanations - that they preferred Jeremy's answers to questions and that they preferred the policies in the Labour manifesto - are more likely to be the true ones.
People don't vote for political parties out of pity or to avoid their annihilation. If they did, LD would have done much better in 2015.
Stop trying to contort simple realities to fit your own political preconceptions. It's bad for betting.
I just told you I'm a colossal pessimist - my 'natural' view is that the government will collapse this year and Corbyn will sweep to a majority on the back of Tory exhaustion and promises to lavish half a trillion of free stuff on the public.
But it remains a fact that parties that are considered serious contenders for power are scrutinized far more harshly than those with no chance. A not-insignificant number of people must have voted Labour for the sake of the party, but would not have if it meant Corbyn, Abbott, and McDonnell actually controlling Trident, MI5, and the economy. How large that number is is unknowable, but important.
The Tories didn't realise that Brexit was basically an anti-incumbency vote. Going to the country again was madness. They misread the reasons for the first result and I'm confident they will misread the reasons for the second. It will be wonderful to watch their fall.
You are aware that after Labour's best campaign ever, and the Tories' worst, the far left nutters are still 64 seats away from a majority?
and very close to a majority. Scotland is an inch away from being dominated by Labour again, go look at some of the SNP central belt majorities, likewise I think someone posted here earlier about a list of 63 seats labour would gain on the smallest of swings. And if Boris was elected leader Labour would be nailed on to win in 2022.
Anna Soubry should of lost on Thurday considering the other seats that were lost, tories would do well to reflect on the campaign she ran in her constituency. I am saying this as LEAVER who leans Tory. The going after the UKIP vote strategy has beeen a complete disaster and cost Tories safe seats like Kensington.
Ruth has correctly worked out that weak and wobbly can be pushed around at will. Arlene will be doing the same. May's position is looking utterly untenable, in fact the complete Tory party will do soon if they don't do *something*.
Quite what I'm not sure though.
Panic?
Call another election. Jezza can do a Thomas Aquinus speech from Downing St. Incidentally well done. You saw JC's qualities when most were scrabbling in the dirt looking through his 25 year old diaries
His 'qualities' involve bribing voters with their own money. Next time I propose the Tories match and exceed Labour's ludicrous giveaways, and see what happens.
Rather foolish. Tories needed to play the ball this election, but chose to play the man.
Concentrating on hard economic issues, rather than decades old newspaper cuttings would have saved their majority.
Its difficult to concentrate on hard economic issues after Osborne trashed Project Fear a year ago.
And after tax cuts for the rich and big business and funding of vanity projects there were millions of voters who wanted a bigger slice of the cake.
The Brexit vote was cross-party. Why isn't the UK Brexit team cross-party? (If it had been, we would of course have been spared the farce of the last six weeks.) Brexiteers should be calling for Corbyn and Starmer to be on board - they might not get exactly the Brexit they want, but at least they'll get Brexit. Sensible Remainers should want it too - the Brexit process will do much less damage if it isn't a political football.
That could also apply to other things.
Social care for the elderly, university funding and housing for example.
So we're just going to ignore 17m voters and the biggest democratic mandate for change ever.
How nice.
She's got 13 whole MPs. She is dominant. The world at her feet.
She has not only revived SCon, she has done much to save the Union. I reckon she's a force.
She has indubitably attracted SNP/Leave voters over to Conservative. A vastly impressive feat.
To now turn around and signal Brexit in name only is a sensationally brave move.
She was a particularly vocal and competent advocate for Remain.
While she has come to conclude that Brexit has to go through, she wants Featherbed Soft Brexit.
Which isn't on offer.
Realistically now it must be something like:
Featherbed Soft Brexit 40% WTO / Full North Korea 20% No Brexit 40%
But FSB requires agency and leadership. The other two just require us to sit around and play musical chairs, which is basically all the Tory party has done for the past 12 months.
No Brexit is not an option. Whichever party suggested it would end up like the Lib Dims.
So we're just going to ignore 17m voters and the biggest democratic mandate for change ever.
How nice.
She's got 13 whole MPs. She is dominant. The world at her feet.
She has not only revived SCon, she has done much to save the Union. I reckon she's a force.
She has indubitably attracted SNP/Leave voters over to Conservative. A vastly impressive feat.
To now turn around and signal Brexit in name only is a sensationally brave move.
She was a particularly vocal and competent advocate for Remain.
While she has come to conclude that Brexit has to go through, she wants Featherbed Soft Brexit.
Which isn't on offer.
Realistically now it must be something like:
Featherbed Soft Brexit 40% WTO / Full North Korea 20% No Brexit 40%
But FSB requires agency and leadership. The other two just require us to sit around and play musical chairs, which is basically all the Tory party has done for the past 12 months.
No Brexit is not an option. Whichever party suggested it would end up like the Lib Dims.
It doesn't require anyone to suggest it.
It requires the process to drag on and on in an increasingly unsatisfactory manner until finally someone has the balls to kill it.
So we're just going to ignore 17m voters and the biggest democratic mandate for change ever.
How nice.
She's got 13 whole MPs. She is dominant. The world at her feet.
She has not only revived SCon, she has done much to save the Union. I reckon she's a force.
She has indubitably attracted SNP/Leave voters over to Conservative. A vastly impressive feat.
To now turn around and signal Brexit in name only is a sensationally brave move.
She was a particularly vocal and competent advocate for Remain.
While she has come to conclude that Brexit has to go through, she wants Featherbed Soft Brexit.
Which isn't on offer.
Realistically now it must be something like:
Featherbed Soft Brexit 40% WTO / Full North Korea 20% No Brexit 40%
But FSB requires agency and leadership. The other two just require us to sit around and play musical chairs, which is basically all the Tory party has done for the past 12 months.
No Brexit is not an option. Whichever party suggested it would end up like the Lib Dims.
It doesn't require anyone to suggest it.
It requires the process to drag on and on in an increasingly unsatisfactory manner until finally someone has the balls to kill it.
And that person has to say to the people of Britain "We are so tightly wound into the EU, we cannot leave. Our politicians have given away your sovereignty. Your voice has been lost. Sorry...."
Go back seven weeks and tell Conservatives they'd lose their majority from a 20 point lead and they either ask what care in the community project you were in or that the Messiah has endorsed Jezza .... or probably both.
Hi JackW, hoping you are in fine and fiesty fettle. I had real concerns when May called this GE, not least because it became very evident within hours that she had not even consulted a few trusted members of her own Cabinet or devolved party Leaders such as Ruth Davidson. That set alarm bells ringing with me that got even louder when I heard that both her Comms Chief and Press secretary wanted to resign. That immediately indicated to me that not even they had been in loop when it came to making such a monumental decision to call a snap GE. A huge error of judgement on so many levels. And one only compounded by briefings flying around that May was then expected uber loyalty from backbenches on their return after the GE on the back of 'her' manifesto with what appears shockingly little imput or signing off from her elected politicians.
The Tories have simply one thing to do in government this time around - make sure that Corbyn isn't the next PM. Brexit is important, solvency is important, defence is important, law and order is important - however frankly I don't care what they do with those things - the demolition of the country by Corbyn is something I never wish to see, all other matters are secondary.
Any Tory MP that makes even the slightest peep against Mrs May needs to be consigned to the tower. Of course she won't actually be making the decisions - it'll be the cabinet.
I know it's fashionable to vote for dimwits, but the UK is not in a position to indulge itself with the dangerous variety.
Comments
Not to mention that next time Labour will receive actual scrutiny about what having Corbyn in charge of the nukes an Abbott in charge of MI5 would really mean. How many votes were essentially pity shags intended to save the party from the annihilation predicted by the polls?
They won't bother in the autumn.
The path of least resistance is probably now no Brexit.
Individual anecdotes can be amusing but seldom generalise well. I was door knocking in Brentford & Isleworth on election day. One gentleman, a long time Labour voter and Corbyn fan, voted Tory because the Labour candidate refused to put Corbyn on her leaflets. I praised his principled stand, but we still turned a 400 vote majority into 12,000.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservative_Party_(UK)_leadership_election,_2016#Opinion_polling
That's how awesome she is.
She'd absolutely batter Corbyn at PMQs every week for starters.
She'd not duck any of the debates.
Okay, that's a bit unfair, there's value in betting on things if you think their odds are longer than their likelihood.
But I think there's always more value in the constituency bets than on straight majority betting.
https://ukelect.wordpress.com/2017/06/09/2017-parliament-the-tighest-marginals/
Far too many warning signs from this election, simply saying a crap Manifesto and campaign under a poor leader purely led to this is silly. Real danger signs there that might be ignored.
@LordAshcroft: The Government should consider including @KateHoeyMP somewhere in the Brexit team...
To now turn around and signal Brexit in name only is a sensationally brave move.
https://twitter.com/andrew_lilico/status/873574559252975618
People don't vote for political parties out of pity or to avoid their annihilation. If they did, LD would have done much better in 2015.
Stop trying to contort simple realities to fit your own political preconceptions. It's bad for betting.
What were all those lies being pedalled about LibDems close to winning Vauxhall and Witney.
Were they coming from the LibDems or Remainer nutters.
Interesting to note that none of the Lab target marginals are LD, all are Tory or SNP.
There was a lot of us, but May tried to paint us as the enemy within.
As we see, it failed spectacularly.
The first thing she's done since the election is publicly ask for extra sweeties for her client LGTQWERTY base.
Conservatives should be avoiding this depressing lefty tactic of dividing people into neat boxes.
Barry: that's democracy Dennis, everybody gets what nobody wants.
While she has come to conclude that Brexit has to go through, she wants Featherbed Soft Brexit.
And it's not a randomly generate name, he really exists.
Sadly it would also require the Labour party to put country above party and join in a non-partisan way.
I fear neither party has the vision to see this at present - but it would be both the right thing to do, and also play very well with the voters at large.
It goes like this:
"OK folks, the country is deeply divided and divisive at present - Brexit, security, NHS and social care challenges. Leadership is about bringing the best talents together to solve problems in the national interest - and I am inviting Labour and the devolved administrations to join me in non-partisan commissions over the next 2 years to discuss and identify common ground on each. This will be the essence of my Queens Speech and I invite the other parties to support me".
Zero to hero overnight. It saves her bacon for 2 years, and gives a platform for the next election that is detoxified. Most importantly it gives the chance in an unsettled parliament with a clearly restive electorate to make progress on contentious issues.
NEW THREAD
https://www.byline.com/column/68/article/1721
Tomorrow's MoS will be interesting. Does Grieg want May to go? I sense he does.
Compare and contrast with Monday's DM for lolz.
Featherbed Soft Brexit 40%
WTO / Full North Korea 20%
No Brexit 40%
But FSB requires agency and leadership. The other two just require us to sit around and play musical chairs, which is basically all the Tory party has done for the past 12 months.
Or maybe some people just like attention seeking.
They deserve to be discredited whoever they are.
Concentrating on hard economic issues, rather than decades old newspaper cuttings would have saved their majority.
Mr. 83, not played it, but heard much about it. Seems pretty popular.
The EU will want money, it always wants money.
But it remains a fact that parties that are considered serious contenders for power are scrutinized far more harshly than those with no chance. A not-insignificant number of people must have voted Labour for the sake of the party, but would not have if it meant Corbyn, Abbott, and McDonnell actually controlling Trident, MI5, and the economy. How large that number is is unknowable, but important.
And after tax cuts for the rich and big business and funding of vanity projects there were millions of voters who wanted a bigger slice of the cake.
Social care for the elderly, university funding and housing for example.
It requires the process to drag on and on in an increasingly unsatisfactory manner until finally someone has the balls to kill it.
Any Tory MP that makes even the slightest peep against Mrs May needs to be consigned to the tower. Of course she won't actually be making the decisions - it'll be the cabinet.
I know it's fashionable to vote for dimwits, but the UK is not in a position to indulge itself with the dangerous variety.