Go back seven weeks and tell Conservatives they'd lose their majority from a 20 point lead and they either ask what care in the community project you were in or that the Messiah has endorsed Jezza .... or probably both.
Granted, it's very disappointing, but there's still huge Conservative support.
Quite so.
That is why I believe it is foolish to shackle the Conservatives to the DUP. The Conservatives need to retain their coalition not alienate a substantial proportion of it.
Every time the DUP talk about gay issues, abortion, religion, climate change, dinosaurs and their influence on the Conservative government you can just see a pile of votes drain away. And then there's some of the "interesting" history of the party.
The PM, this one and the next should simply have dared the DUP to bring the government down. Instead the government will be looking over its shoulder waiting for the plug to be pulled at a time of the DUP's choosing whilst the opposition is wrapping the government to the DUP every day.
Osborne made the point repeatedly on election night. The DUP are not the UUP. They are not Conservatives. The parties have little, if anything, in common. The modern Tory party had far more in common with the Lib Dems, far more.
Whatever happened to the UUP?
We actually need a thread about what happened in NI in this election, ideally from one of our locals. It has been overlooked and it is deeply troubling. In a situation where the Assembly is already suspended the centre ground, UUP, Alliance and SDLP have been wiped out with the extremes taking control. It does not auger well.
Go back seven weeks and tell Conservatives they'd lose their majority from a 20 point lead and they either ask what care in the community project you were in or that the Messiah has endorsed Jezza .... or probably both.
Granted, it's very disappointing, but there's still huge Conservative support.
Quite so.
That is why I believe it is foolish to shackle the Conservatives to the DUP. The Conservatives need to retain their coalition not alienate a substantial proportion of it.
Every time the DUP talk about gay issues, abortion, religion, climate change, dinosaurs and their influence on the Conservative government you can just see a pile of votes drain away. And then there's some of the "interesting" history of the party.
The PM, this one and the next should simply have dared the DUP to bring the government down. Instead the government will be looking over its shoulder waiting for the plug to be pulled at a time of the DUP's choosing whilst the opposition is wrapping the government to the DUP every day.
Osborne made the point repeatedly on election night. The DUP are not the UUP. They are not Conservatives. The parties have little, if anything, in common. The modern Tory party had far more in common with the Lib Dems, far more.
Whatever happened to the UUP?
The DUP skillfully branded them as traitors and ensured their destruction. Then Paisley went ahead and did exactly what he'd lambasted the UUP for doing. It was brilliant but shameless politics. No wonder some Tories are nervous - the UUP were their sister party and they saw what the DUP did to them.
Go back seven weeks and tell Conservatives they'd lose their majority from a 20 point lead and they either ask what care in the community project you were in or that the Messiah has endorsed Jezza .... or probably both.
Granted, it's and yet the sam very disappointing, but there's still huge Conservative support.
Quite so.
That is why I believe it is foolish to shackle the Conservatives to the DUP. The Conservatives need to retain their coalition not alienate a substantial proportion of it.
Every time the DUP talk about gay issues, abortion, religion, climate change, dinosaurs and their influence on the Conservative government you can just see a pile of votes drain away. And then there's some of the "interesting" history of the party.
The PM, this one and the next should simply have dared the DUP to bring the government down. Instead the government will be looking over its shoulder waiting for the plug to be pulled at a time of the DUP's choosing whilst the opposition is wrapping the government to the DUP every day.
Osborne made the point repeatedly on election night. The DUP are not the UUP. They are not Conservatives. The parties have little, if anything, in common. The modern Tory party had far more in common with the Lib Dems, far more.
and yet the same Osborne was quite happy to cosy up to them whn he thought he needed help
Go back seven weeks and tell Conservatives they'd lose their majority from a 20 point lead and they either ask what care in the community project you were in or that the Messiah has endorsed Jezza .... or probably both.
Granted, it's very disappointing, but there's still huge Conservative support.
There was a lot of NEW Conservative support as well.
The reports of 'lifelong Labour voters changing to Conservative' from the likes of Bolsover and Don Valley were true.
The Conservatives consolidated hardcore Brexit supporters just as Brexit is about to be exposed as a giant fraud.
Even Corbyn backs Brexit, the LD plan for a second referendum was a giant flop even if May failed to get approval for hard Brexit
It didn't fly at this election, but is quite possibly how the story ends, nevertheless.
Go back seven weeks and tell Conservatives they'd lose their majority from a 20 point lead and they either ask what care in the community project you were in or that the Messiah has endorsed Jezza .... or probably both.
Granted, it's very disappointing, but there's still huge Conservative support.
Quite so.
That is why I believe it is foolish to shackle the Conservatives to the DUP. The Conservatives need to retain their coalition not alienate a substantial proportion of it.
Every time the DUP talk about gay issues, abortion, religion, climate change, dinosaurs and their influence on the Conservative government you can just see a pile of votes drain away. And then there's some of the "interesting" history of the party.
The PM, this one and the next should simply have dared the DUP to bring the government down. Instead the government will be looking over its shoulder waiting for the plug to be pulled at a time of the DUP's choosing whilst the opposition is wrapping the government to the DUP every day.
Osborne made the point repeatedly on election night. The DUP are not the UUP. They are not Conservatives. The parties have little, if anything, in common. The modern Tory party had far more in common with the Lib Dems, far more.
Whatever happened to the UUP?
They compromised with Catholics, including Sinn Féin, too much for their voters. And got overtaken gradually during the 2000s as a result. Politicians who defected from the UUP to the DUP during that period include the current leader. Any attempt to recreate the trick after the DUP's own compromises with Sinn Féin has failed, as the DUP are much more effective at being loudly demeaning to Catholics than their predecessors.
Better get on Corbyn then as next PM, I spoke to Tory members yesterday and the overwhelming view was that if and when May goes it had to be Boris with a handful for Davidson but obviously she is not interested and has no seat
Are the Brexiteers going to start panicking a bit here? In danger of losing control of the Brexit process.
Because they didn't fully explain what Brexit means, and the hard Brexit mandate doesn't exist now and the Commons is full of people who will prioritise the single market membership above all others.
The only weapon in their armoury now is to topple Theresa May and install a hard Brexiteer as Tory leader/PM.
Someone like Steve Baker.
total idiocy
its not about the MPs its about the voters, if you think MPs ignoring the voters is a recipe for success then every election will be a surprise
as for somehow all will be healed by avoiding Brexit that's even dafter, the UK is beyond the pale for most of the core EU
were EU lepers, youre not actually going to get welcomed back, especially the Tories
quite why you think the Tories keeping a lanced boil going for nother 50 years is in their interest is even more idiotic
you think rosie eyed kippers want to relive the 50s youre just as bad trying to relive the noughties
the UK can never go back to where it was its like a marrage where one half has been caught cheating
Parliament is sovereign, that's what the EU referendum was about, not about those stinking immigrants.
So Parliament can do whatever it likes.
Plus is every marriage ended after one half had been caught cheating, the divorce rate would be much higher.
It is clear that the Tories have twice gambled the nation's future for party advantage, and have lost both times. It's unclear to me whether the electorate will ever trust the party again, and it is fundamentally a party based on credibility and trust. The Tories could finished for a generation or more, and fully deserve to be.
What a mess we are in. What, exactly, has this party "conserved"?
People (well mainly fools) were saying the Tories will never win another majority after the 2010 general election. The Tories will outlast any of their critics.
They did, after all, win 43.5% of the vote.
You'd think this was 1997, from some comments.
There is nevertheless a chunk of votes who went Tory for fear of Corbyn, who might otherwise have been in the LibDem/Labour market. The challenge for Labour is to find a way of keeping young voters enthused at the prospect of some radical reshaping of the unfairness in the economy, whilst finding a leadership team without the baggage and weaknesses of Corbyn and the hard left. If they can do this then the pay could easily enter the next election as favourites.
I think Labour are favourites at the next election, but if we've learned anything, it is that public opinion is both volatile and unpredictable.
They are in a sense, because of the humiliation the Tories have just suffered. But could the Tory leader, campaign, and manifesto be worse than they were this time? And will anyone who wasn't persuaded by Corbyn's bribes this time be persuaded next time?
Labour will offer to write off student tuition fees debt at the next election if Corbyn and his team are in charge.
Go back seven weeks and tell Conservatives they'd lose their majority from a 20 point lead and they either ask what care in the community project you were in or that the Messiah has endorsed Jezza .... or probably both.
Granted, it's very disappointing, but there's still huge Conservative support.
Quite so.
That is why I believe it is foolish to shackle the Conservatives to the DUP. The Conservatives need to retain their coalition not alienate a substantial proportion of it.
Every time the DUP talk about gay issues, abortion, religion, climate change, dinosaurs and their influence on the Conservative government you can just see a pile of votes drain away. And then there's some of the "interesting" history of the party.
The PM, this one and the next should simply have dared the DUP to bring the government down. Instead the government will be looking over its shoulder waiting for the plug to be pulled at a time of the DUP's choosing whilst the opposition is wrapping the government to the DUP every day.
Osborne made the point repeatedly on election night. The DUP are not the UUP. They are not Conservatives. The parties have little, if anything, in common. The modern Tory party had far more in common with the Lib Dems, far more.
Whatever happened to the UUP?
The DUP skillfully branded them as traitors and ensured their destruction. Then Paisley went ahead and did exactly what he'd lambasted the UUP for doing. It was brilliant but shameless politics. No wonder some Tories are nervous - the UUP were their sister party and they saw what the DUP did to them.
what did you expect ?
British governments have appeased the extremes and crushed the centre for the last 20 years
If you subtract out the 59 seats north of the border, the Tories would have 305 seats and the rest combined would have 286, so a Tory majority of 19.
Independence Now!!
If the Union breaks up on the Tories' watch they won't win 305 seats.
Well, I wasn't being entirely serious - Conservative and Unionist Party after all. It was more my reaction to seeing this picture:
Brilliant @nytimes map showing Lab-Con swing in each constituency. This huge southern surge for Labour is fascinating and unexpected. pic.twitter.com/9EDv4cQJrX
Thoughts on who would be the best Stop Boris candidate?
I'd have thought Hammond is in a good position. The fact of his having being sidelined during the campaign will now be to his advantage.
Sorry, Hammond would almost certainly not beat Corbyn, he is too dull and establishment for the current mood of the electorate and like May was a Remainer and as Chancellor is wedded to austerity, if a little less than Osborne, Boris is charismatic and populist and the only viable option
Boris means a Corbyn government. It's that simple.
Completely wrong, not Boris means a Corbyn government. It's that simple. Eg on London news yesterday they had a woman who said she would have voted for Boris though she did not vote for May
Miss Fitalass, it's just a shame Ruth Davidson can't be PM.
"Scotland saved the Conservatives. #Unexpectedplottwists"
Her or Osborne would be the stand out candidates. If only the daft sod hadn't buggered off to indulge his vendetta (as I wrote yesterday, I wonder if he regrets harming his own side with his newspaper shenanigans, or feels his mockery was vindicated by the woeful performance).
Hi Morris dancer. I have to say that Osborne didn't so much bugger off to indulge his vendetta. But rather that May and her Clique of two spads told him to bugger off to the backbenches without so much as the dignity of being able to resign, and so they could avoid even thanking him for his contribution to their moving into No10 instead of the Leader of the Oppositions offices instead. They then proceeded to try and undo all the good ground work that had been laid over the years to make us electable right across the UK.
If you think that Ruth Davidson ran a good campaign for the Scottish Conservatives up here, just imagine what she could have done with a GE manifesto without the hidden toxic little gems planted by May's team without any consultation with the rest of the Cabinet.
Go back seven weeks and tell Conservatives they'd lose their majority from a 20 point lead and they either ask what care in the community project you were in or that the Messiah has endorsed Jezza .... or probably both.
Granted, it's very disappointing, but there's still huge Conservative support.
Quite so.
That is why I believe it is foolish to shackle the Conservatives to the DUP. The Conservatives need to retain their coalition not alienate a substantial proportion of it.
Every time the DUP talk about gay issues, abortion, religion, climate change, dinosaurs and their influence on the Conservative government you can just see a pile of votes drain away. And then there's some of the "interesting" history of the party.
The PM, this one and the next should simply have dared the DUP to bring the government down. Instead the government will be looking over its shoulder waiting for the plug to be pulled at a time of the DUP's choosing whilst the opposition is wrapping the government to the DUP every day.
Osborne made the point repeatedly on election night. The DUP are not the UUP. They are not Conservatives. The parties have little, if anything, in common. The modern Tory party had far more in common with the Lib Dems, far more.
The UUP was not a socially liberal party, when it was dominant. The DUP is now what the UUP was. Same voters, and many of the same members. IMHO, Unionists must hang together or hang separately.
Go back seven weeks and tell Conservatives they'd lose their majority from a 20 point lead and they either ask what care in the community project you were in or that the Messiah has endorsed Jezza .... or probably both.
Granted, it's very disappointing, but there's still huge Conservative support.
There was a lot of NEW Conservative support as well.
The reports of 'lifelong Labour voters changing to Conservative' from the likes of Bolsover and Don Valley were true.
The Conservatives consolidated hardcore Brexit supporters just as Brexit is about to be exposed as a giant fraud.
Even Corbyn backs Brexit, the LD plan for a second referendum was a giant flop even if May failed to get approval for hard Brexit
It didn't fly at this election, but is quite possibly how the story ends, nevertheless.
No, at most it will be fudged Brexit, neither the EU nor the UK voters want us back in the EU
The only Tory who is actually thinking long term. We need to get Labour, at least, involved with Brexit negotiations. We didn't win a majority, the public have not endorsed our Brexit plan (as vague as that was). It wouldn't be correct for the Conservatives to now push ahead with the Tory Brexit plan without any Labour input. We didn't win a mandate for it during the Brexit election.
Theresa should have had an alternative speech on Friday morning.
"Last night was a difficult night for myself and my party, though we finished with more votes than the opposition and the most seats in Parliament, it is clear that the British public have not given us their full endorsement for our Brexit plan. For that reason I will resign as party leader and PM once I have put a queens speech through parliament and trigger a leadership election within the Conservative party. I will stay on as PM and leader in the interim and will ask Labour's Brexit representative Kier Starmer to join a cross party Brexit negotiation committee to get the process of Brexit started before the next PM has been elected by my party."
That speech would have salvaged what little she has left of her reputation. Instead she is shaming our party and country by clinging on.
lol. This reminds me of Tony Blair talking to the PLP: "Do you think I get up every morning and try to think of new ways to piss off Labour voters?" [mutters of "Yes!"]
Look at the SNP defence on that website, they have no safe seats ! If their popularity continues to drop, they are so vulnerable to being wiped out in Westminster.
The Tories didn't realise that Brexit was basically an anti-incumbency vote. Going to the country again was madness. They misread the reasons for the first result and I'm confident they will misread the reasons for the second. It will be wonderful to watch their fall.
Osborne made the point repeatedly on election night. The DUP are not the UUP. They are not Conservatives. The parties have little, if anything, in common. The modern Tory party had far more in common with the Lib Dems, far more.
I noted previously the irony of the the Conservatives decimation of the LibDems in 2015 has subsequently led to the decimation of two Conservative Prime Ministers within a twelve month period.
It is clear that the Tories have twice gambled the nation's future for party advantage, and have lost both times. It's unclear to me whether the electorate will ever trust the party again, and it is fundamentally a party based on credibility and trust. The Tories could finished for a generation or more, and fully deserve to be.
What a mess we are in. What, exactly, has this party "conserved"?
People (well mainly fools) were saying the Tories will never win another majority after the 2010 general election. The Tories will outlast any of their critics.
They did, after all, win 43.5% of the vote.
You'd think this was 1997, from some comments.
There is nevertheless a chunk of votes who went Tory for fear of Corbyn, who might otherwise have been in the LibDem/Labour market. The challenge for Labour is to find a way of keeping young voters enthused at the prospect of some radical reshaping of the unfairness in the economy, whilst finding a leadership team without the baggage and weaknesses of Corbyn and the hard left. If they can do this then the pay could easily enter the next election as favourites.
I think Labour are favourites at the next election, but if we've learned anything, it is that public opinion is both volatile and unpredictable.
They are in a sense, because of the humiliation the Tories have just suffered. But could the Tory leader, campaign, and manifesto be worse than they were this time? And will anyone who wasn't persuaded by Corbyn's bribes this time be persuaded next time?
Labour will offer to write off student tuition fees debt at the next election if Corbyn and his team are in charge.
That will bribe a lot of extra voters.
True, but surely the Tories will simply eliminate any new taxes from their manifesto, plus add in some new tax cuts and giveaways as well - Labour won't have it all their own way, and debt cancellation on that scale will look extreme to a lot of centrist voters.
Are the Brexiteers going to start panicking a bit here? In danger of losing control of the Brexit process.
Because they didn't fully explain what Brexit means, and the hard Brexit mandate doesn't exist now and the Commons is full of people who will prioritise the single market membership above all others.
The only weapon in their armoury now is to topple Theresa May and install a hard Brexiteer as Tory leader/PM.
Someone like Steve Baker.
total idiocy
its not about the MPs its about the voters, if you think MPs ignoring the voters is a recipe for success then every election will be a surprise
as for somehow all will be healed by avoiding Brexit that's even dafter, the UK is beyond the pale for most of the core EU
were EU lepers, youre not actually going to get welcomed back, especially the Tories
quite why you think the Tories keeping a lanced boil going for nother 50 years is in their interest is even more idiotic
you think rosie eyed kippers want to relive the 50s youre just as bad trying to relive the noughties
the UK can never go back to where it was its like a marrage where one half has been caught cheating
Parliament is sovereign, that's what the EU referendum was about, not about those stinking immigrants.
So Parliament can do whatever it likes.
Plus is every marriage ended after one half had been caught cheating, the divorce rate would be much higher.
youre just a bad as the IDS mob, you cant acually run a party without playing vendetta, it's one of the reasons the Tories are becoming nceasingly unelectable theyre more interested in their own squabbles than running country
@chrisdeerin: Suspect Ruth D's bullishness on Brexit due to wanting to show Scot voters she can make a difference where Sturgeon failed. It's about 2021
The only Tory who is actually thinking long term. We need to get Labour, at least, involved with Brexit negotiations. We didn't win a majority, the public have not endorsed our Brexit plan (as vague as that was). It wouldn't be correct for the Conservatives to now push ahead with the Tory Brexit plan without any Labour input. We didn't win a mandate for it during the Brexit election.
Theresa should have had an alternative speech on Friday morning.
"Last night was a difficult night for myself and my party, though we finished with more votes than the opposition and the most seats in Parliament, it is clear that the British public have not given us their full endorsement for our Brexit plan. For that reason I will resign as party leader and PM once I have put a queens speech through parliament and trigger a leadership election within the Conservative party. I will stay on as PM and leader in the interim and will ask Labour's Brexit representative Kier Starmer to join a cross party Brexit negotiation committee to get the process of Brexit started before the next PM has been elected by my party."
That speech would have salvaged what little she has left of her reputation. Instead she is shaming our party and country by clinging on.
I agree that would have been the right move. Unfortunately it would have required a Tory to put their country ahead of their party. Never gonna happen.
Are the Brexiteers going to start panicking a bit here? In danger of losing control of the Brexit process.
Good.
The message from the election is clear. We don't want to give May a blank cheque on Brexit and we don't want Corbyn as PM either.
Let's see what the overnight polling says but I'm not sure there's a great appetite for a new Tory leader (let alone another election).
May needs to front up and say it's clear the country is still divided and she will run a more inclusive administration. The first act would be to appoint David Davis Deputy PM to lead a Brexit committee comprising representation from all four parties and all four nations.
It will be a zombie government but frankly Brexit is the only show in town and we need to be honest that only a solution appealing to the 52 and the 48 is going to work.
May is an idiot. She started with overwhelming support as the only sane adult left standing but she has ruled and campaigned on a "Me Or Them" platform, with "Them" slowly growing to include Remainers, Foreign Nationals, the Judiciary, Londoners, Students, and finally Old People.
She now needs to STFU and let others do the heavy lifting of leading, reaching out and healing. She should restrict herself to the more ceremonial aspects of the job.
Miss Fitalass, it's just a shame Ruth Davidson can't be PM.
"Scotland saved the Conservatives. #Unexpectedplottwists"
Her or Osborne would be the stand out candidates. If only the daft sod hadn't buggered off to indulge his vendetta (as I wrote yesterday, I wonder if he regrets harming his own side with his newspaper shenanigans, or feels his mockery was vindicated by the woeful performance).
if May was serious about staying on and righting the ship, she could hire Osborne to replace Nick and Fiona
Anyone who manages to persuade Osborne to come back into the fold as their key adviser will have played a blinder.
Completely wrong, not Boris means a Corbyn government. It's that simple. Eg on London news yesterday they had a woman who said she would have voted for Boris though she did not vote for May
So we're just going to ignore 17m voters and the biggest democratic mandate for change ever.
How nice.
The Prime Minister just sought a mandate to crush the saboteurs and secure a hard Brexit. The voting public chose not to give her that. Of course the government's Brexit position needs to be rethought as a consequence.
Thoughts on who would be the best Stop Boris candidate?
I'd have thought Hammond is in a good position. The fact of his having being sidelined during the campaign will now be to his advantage.
Sorry, Hammond would almost certainly not beat Corbyn, he is too dull and establishment for the current mood of the electorate and like May was a Remainer and as Chancellor is wedded to austerity, if a little less than Osborne, Boris is charismatic and populist and the only viable option
Boris means a Corbyn government. It's that simple.
Completely wrong, not Boris means a Corbyn government. It's that simple. Eg on London news yesterday they had a woman who said she would have voted for Boris though she did not vote for May
We have a circus already. We do not need to put a clown in charge.
If the Tory party thinks government is such a joke -- they will be simply thrashed by Corbyn. Even I would vote Labour in that scenario (I have never done so).
So we're just going to ignore 17m voters and the biggest democratic mandate for change ever.
How nice.
Lol - The Tories are going to toxify themselves with leavers if they do that. And the DUP stuff will do it for the social liberals. And then there is May,
Are the Brexiteers going to start panicking a bit here? In danger of losing control of the Brexit process.
Because they didn't fully explain what Brexit means, and the hard Brexit mandate doesn't exist now and the Commons is full of people who will prioritise the single market membership above all others.
The only weapon in their armoury now is to topple Theresa May and install a hard Brexiteer as Tory leader/PM.
Someone like Steve Baker.
total idiocy
its not about the MPs its about the voters, if you think MPs ignoring the voters is a recipe for success then every election will be a surprise
as for somehow all will be healed by avoiding Brexit that's even dafter, the UK is beyond the pale for most of the core EU
were EU lepers, youre not actually going to get welcomed back, especially the Tories
quite why you think the Tories keeping a lanced boil going for nother 50 years is in their interest is even more idiotic
you think rosie eyed kippers want to relive the 50s youre just as bad trying to relive the noughties
the UK can never go back to where it was its like a marrage where one half has been caught cheating
Parliament is sovereign, that's what the EU referendum was about, not about those stinking immigrants.
So Parliament can do whatever it likes.
Plus is every marriage ended after one half had been caught cheating, the divorce rate would be much higher.
youre just a bad as the IDS mob, you cant acually run a party without playing vendetta, it's one of the reasons the Tories are becoming nceasingly unelectable theyre more interested in their own squabbles than running country
This is all about trying to run the country, the more stupid Leavers are wanting to give King Charles more power.
80% of my day job is now spent working out what Brexit actually means.
Hi Morris dancer. I have to say that Osborne didn't so much bugger off to indulge his vendetta. But rather that May and her Clique of two spads told him to bugger off to the backbenches without so much as the dignity of being able to resign, and so they could avoid even thanking him for his contribution to their moving into No10 instead of the Leader of the Oppositions offices instead. They then proceeded to try and undo all the good ground work that had been laid over the years to make us electable right across the UK.
Did May not tell Osborne to go and learn about the Party?
Shame she didn't learn anything about the voters...
Are the Brexiteers going to start panicking a bit here? In danger of losing control of the Brexit process.
Because they didn't fully explain what Brexit means, and the hard Brexit mandate doesn't exist now and the Commons is full of people who will prioritise the single market membership above all others.
The only weapon in their armoury now is to topple Theresa May and install a hard Brexiteer as Tory leader/PM.
Someone like Steve Baker.
total idiocy
its not about the MPs its about the voters, if you think MPs ignoring the voters is a recipe for success then every election will be a surprise
as for somehow all will be healed by avoiding Brexit that's even dafter, the UK is beyond the pale for most of the core EU
were EU lepers, youre not actually going to get welcomed back, especially the Tories
quite why you think the Tories keeping a lanced boil going for nother 50 years is in their interest is even more idiotic
you think rosie eyed kippers want to relive the 50s youre just as bad trying to relive the noughties
the UK can never go back to where it was its like a marrage where one half has been caught cheating
Parliament is sovereign, that's what the EU referendum was about, not about those stinking immigrants.
So Parliament can do whatever it likes.
Plus is every marriage ended after one half had been caught cheating, the divorce rate would be much higher.
youre just a bad as the IDS mob, you cant acually run a party without playing vendetta, it's one of the reasons the Tories are becoming nceasingly unelectable theyre more interested in their own squabbles than running country
This is all about trying to run the country, the more stupid Leavers are wanting to give King Charles more power.
80% of my day job is now spent working out what Brexit actually means.
lol. This reminds me of Tony Blair talking to the PLP: "Do you think I get up every morning and try to think of new ways to piss off Labour voters?" [mutters of "Yes!"]
But delivered two landslides in 97 and 01 and a substantial majority in 05. Shame he decided to hold hands with George Bush. There was a lesson there for Theresa May.
Ruth has correctly worked out that weak and wobbly can be pushed around at will. Arlene will be doing the same. May's position is looking utterly untenable, in fact the complete Tory party will do soon if they don't do *something*.
Go back seven weeks and tell Conservatives they'd lose their majority from a 20 point lead and they either ask what care in the community project you were in or that the Messiah has endorsed Jezza .... or probably both.
Granted, it's very disappointing, but there's still huge Conservative support.
Quite so.
That is why I believe it is foolish to shackle the Conservatives to the DUP. The Conservatives need to retain their coalition not alienate a substantial proportion of it.
Every time the DUP talk about gay issues, abortion, religion, climate change, dinosaurs and their influence on the Conservative government you can just see a pile of votes drain away. And then there's some of the "interesting" history of the party.
The PM, this one and the next should simply have dared the DUP to bring the government down. Instead the government will be looking over its shoulder waiting for the plug to be pulled at a time of the DUP's choosing whilst the opposition is wrapping the government to the DUP every day.
Osborne made the point repeatedly on election night. The DUP are not the UUP. They are not Conservatives. The parties have little, if anything, in common. The modern Tory party had far more in common with the Lib Dems, far more.
Whatever happened to the UUP?
We actually need a thread about what happened in NI in this election, ideally from one of our locals. It has been overlooked and it is deeply troubling. In a situation where the Assembly is already suspended the centre ground, UUP, Alliance and SDLP have been wiped out with the extremes taking control. It does not auger well.
It's simply polarising between the two strongest options under FPTP, which is completely rational, so they got 17 seats (almost 18). The UUP aren't that different to the DUP - bar the previous disastrous leadership of Mr Nesbitt - though SF definitely represents a more intransigent politics than the SDLP. To grossly simplify, Brexit and the behaviour of the DUP inflamed Catholics to vote Sinn Féin for taking a tougher line. And the taking of that tougher line inflamed Protestants to vote DUP.
Incredible number of marginals. Have to get down to number 80 to hit a 5% majority. The Tories should be very worried.
I said on the previous thread that having let Corbyn get his foot in the door he will charge through it next time. I also think Labour will become the biggest party again in Scotland.
So we're just going to ignore 17m voters and the biggest democratic mandate for change ever.
How nice.
Lol - The Tories are going to toxify themselves with leavers if they do that. And the DUP stuff will do it for the social liberals. And then there is May,
Trump's visit is soon isn't it ?
My my...
I admit if we are not careful we could soon be arranging the visit of President Sanders to meet PM Corbyn
The Tories didn't realise that Brexit was basically an anti-incumbency vote. Going to the country again was madness. They misread the reasons for the first result and I'm confident they will misread the reasons for the second. It will be wonderful to watch their fall.
You are aware that after Labour's best campaign ever, and the Tories' worst, the far left nutters are still 64 seats away from a majority?
@STVColin: 5 minutes to go anyone seen an exit poll predicting a big win for Scotland? I wasn't convinced by the last exit poll but it turned out right
So we're just going to ignore 17m voters and the biggest democratic mandate for change ever.
How nice.
Lol - The Tories are going to toxify themselves with leavers if they do that. And the DUP stuff will do it for the social liberals. And then there is May,
Trump's visit is soon isn't it ?
My my...
Jezza will be campaigning on Brexit and the Tories on remaining at this rate.
Ruth has correctly worked out that weak and wobbly can be pushed around at will. Arlene will be doing the same. May's position is looking utterly untenable, in fact the complete Tory party will do soon if they don't do *something*.
Has anyone played this Gwent Beta yet? If so any good? I surprisingly found it very addictive in Witcher 3, wondering how well it works in a standalone game?
Thoughts on who would be the best Stop Boris candidate?
I'd have thought Hammond is in a good position. The fact of his having being sidelined during the campaign will now be to his advantage.
Sorry, Hammond would almost certainly not beat Corbyn, he is too dull and establishment for the current mood of the electorate and like May was a Remainer and as Chancellor is wedded to austerity, if a little less than Osborne, Boris is charismatic and populist and the only viable option
Boris means a Corbyn government. It's that simple.
Completely wrong, not Boris means a Corbyn government. It's that simple. Eg on London news yesterday they had a woman who said she would have voted for Boris though she did not vote for May
We have a circus already. We do not need to put a clown in charge.
If the Tory party thinks government is such a joke -- they will be simply thrashed by Corbyn. Even I would vote Labour in that scenario (I have never done so).
Corbyn ran on a populist 'all must have prizes' manifesto so the Tories must run a populist 'all must have prizes candidate' of their own and as you are hardly a regular Tory voter losing your support makes little difference if it gains votes from elsewhere
Are the Brexiteers going to start panicking a bit here? In danger of losing control of the Brexit process.
Because they didn't fully explain what Brexit means, and the hard Brexit mandate doesn't exist now and the Commons is full of people who will prioritise the single market membership above all others.
The only weapon in their armoury now is to topple Theresa May and install a hard Brexiteer as Tory leader/PM.
Someone like Steve Baker.
total idiocy
its not about the MPs its about the voters, if you think MPs ignoring the voters is a recipe for success then every election will be a surprise
as for somehow all will be healed by avoiding Brexit that's even dafter, the UK is beyond the pale for most of the core EU
were EU lepers, youre not actually going to get welcomed back, especially the Tories
quite why you think the Tories keeping a lanced boil going for nother 50 years is in their interest is even more idiotic
you think rosie eyed kippers want to relive the 50s youre just as bad trying to relive the noughties
the UK can never go back to where it was its like a marrage where one half has been caught cheating
Parliament is sovereign, that's what the EU referendum was about, not about those stinking immigrants.
So Parliament can do whatever it likes.
Plus is every marriage ended after one half had been caught cheating, the divorce rate would be much higher.
youre just a bad as the IDS mob, you cant acually run a party without playing vendetta, it's one of the reasons the Tories are becoming nceasingly unelectable theyre more interested in their own squabbles than running country
This is all about trying to run the country, the more stupid Leavers are wanting to give King Charles more power.
80% of my day job is now spent working out what Brexit actually means.
Incredible number of marginals. Have to get down to number 80 to hit a 5% majority. The Tories should be very worried.
I said on the previous thread that having let Corbyn get his foot in the door he will charge through it next time. I also think Labour will become the biggest party again in Scotland.
Yep - Scotland could be very good for Labour next time. It's a bit below the radar because of the Tory surge there, but it's looking very promising, especially in the Central Belt.
The Tories didn't realise that Brexit was basically an anti-incumbency vote. Going to the country again was madness. They misread the reasons for the first result and I'm confident they will misread the reasons for the second. It will be wonderful to watch their fall.
You are aware that after Labour's best campaign ever, and the Tories' worst, the far left nutters are still 64 seats away from a majority?
Largest increase popular vote since 1945, achieved from a standing start against a hostile press and a hostile parliamentary party. Just wait until Labour gets its shit together. The Tories are toast.
I'm looking forward to Corbyn's first appearance in Parliament. The jokes are over. He is now the most authoritative person on the green benches.
The only Tory who is actually thinking long term. We need to get Labour, at least, involved with Brexit negotiations. We didn't win a majority, the public have not endorsed our Brexit plan (as vague as that was). It wouldn't be correct for the Conservatives to now push ahead with the Tory Brexit plan without any Labour input. We didn't win a mandate for it during the Brexit election.
Theresa should have had an alternative speech on Friday morning.
"Last night was a difficult night for myself and my party, though we finished with more votes than the opposition and the most seats in Parliament, it is clear that the British public have not given us their full endorsement for our Brexit plan. For that reason I will resign as party leader and PM once I have put a queens speech through parliament and trigger a leadership election within the Conservative party. I will stay on as PM and leader in the interim and will ask Labour's Brexit representative Kier Starmer to join a cross party Brexit negotiation committee to get the process of Brexit started before the next PM has been elected by my party."
That speech would have salvaged what little she has left of her reputation. Instead she is shaming our party and country by clinging on.
I agree that would have been the right move. Unfortunately it would have required a Tory to put their country ahead of their party. Never gonna happen.
You are the one playing party politics with that comment and a shocking ignorance of history..
Completely wrong, not Boris means a Corbyn government. It's that simple. Eg on London news yesterday they had a woman who said she would have voted for Boris though she did not vote for May
One whole woman? Wow!
Well show me 1 person who did not vote for May and would vote for Rudd, Fallon or Hammond in a swing seat?
Labour will offer to write off student tuition fees debt at the next election if Corbyn and his team are in charge.
That will bribe a lot of extra voters.
Funny that Tory corporation tax cuts aren't "bribes" to businesses.
They are.
As are public sector pay increases without productivity improvements.
May has a truly delightful way of telling the public sector their place - "crying wolf" to the police, "no magic money tree" cliche bingo to a nurse.
There might not be any money for public sector pay rises, but no need to phrase it so callously - May was addressing a voter, not giving a speech during that QT. I think she forgot that.
Miss Fitalass, it's just a shame Ruth Davidson can't be PM.
"Scotland saved the Conservatives. #Unexpectedplottwists"
Her or Osborne would be the stand out candidates. If only the daft sod hadn't buggered off to indulge his vendetta (as I wrote yesterday, I wonder if he regrets harming his own side with his newspaper shenanigans, or feels his mockery was vindicated by the woeful performance).
Hi Morris dancer. I have to say that Osborne didn't so much bugger off to indulge his vendetta. But rather that May and her Clique of two spads told him to bugger off to the backbenches without so much as the dignity of being able to resign, and so they could avoid even thanking him for his contribution to their moving into No10 instead of the Leader of the Oppositions offices instead. They then proceeded to try and undo all the good ground work that had been laid over the years to make us electable right across the UK.
If you think that Ruth Davidson ran a good campaign for the Scottish Conservatives up here, just imagine what she could have done with a GE manifesto without the hidden toxic little gems planted by May's team without any consultation with the rest of the Cabinet.
One of the great things about politics is that you don't need to wait long to get your revenge and even if you do do you kow you'll get it sometime
Are the Brexiteers going to start panicking a bit here? In danger of losing control of the Brexit process.
Because they didn't fully explain what Brexit means, and the hard Brexit mandate doesn't exist now and the Commons is full of people who will prioritise the single market membership above all others.
The only weapon in their armoury now is to topple Theresa May and install a hard Brexiteer as Tory leader/PM.
Someone like Steve Baker.
total idiocy
its not about the MPs its about the voters, if you think MPs ignoring the voters is a recipe for success then every election will be a surprise
as for somehow all will be healed by avoiding Brexit that's even dafter, the UK is beyond the pale for most of the core EU
were EU lepers, youre not actually going to get welcomed back, especially the Tories
quite why you think the Tories keeping a lanced boil going for nother 50 years is in their interest is even more idiotic
you think rosie eyed kippers want to relive the 50s youre just as bad trying to relive the noughties
the UK can never go back to where it was its like a marrage where one half has been caught cheating
Parliament is sovereign, that's what the EU referendum was about, not about those stinking immigrants.
So Parliament can do whatever it likes.
Plus is every marriage ended after one half had been caught cheating, the divorce rate would be much higher.
youre just a bad as the IDS mob, you cant acually run a party without playing vendetta, it's one of the reasons the Tories are becoming nceasingly unelectable theyre more interested in their own squabbles than running country
This is all about trying to run the country, the more stupid Leavers are wanting to give King Charles more power.
80% of my day job is now spent working out what Brexit actually means.
So no lectures from any of you Leavers.
You are strongly motivated by spite towards your enemies in the Conservative Party.
Labour will offer to write off student tuition fees debt at the next election if Corbyn and his team are in charge.
That will bribe a lot of extra voters.
Funny that Tory corporation tax cuts aren't "bribes" to businesses.
They are.
As are public sector pay increases without productivity improvements.
May has a truly delightful way of telling the public sector their place - "crying wolf" to the police, "no magic money tree" cliche bingo to a nurse.
There might not be any money for public sector pay rises, but no need to phrase it so callously - May was addressing a voter, not giving a speech during that QT. I think she forgot that.
May's speech to the Police Federation came back to haunt her!
The Tories didn't realise that Brexit was basically an anti-incumbency vote. Going to the country again was madness. They misread the reasons for the first result and I'm confident they will misread the reasons for the second. It will be wonderful to watch their fall.
You are aware that after Labour's best campaign ever, and the Tories' worst, the far left nutters are still 64 seats away from a majority?
Largest increase popular vote since 1945, achieved from a standing start against a hostile press and a hostile parliamentary party. Just wait until Labour gets its shit together. The Tories are toast.
I'm looking forward to Corbyn's first appearance in Parliament. The jokes are over. He is now the most authoritative person on the green benches.
And will be judged as a potential PM not as a clown.
Corbyn does need to get his shit together because people will take him seriously now.
The Tories didn't realise that Brexit was basically an anti-incumbency vote. Going to the country again was madness. They misread the reasons for the first result and I'm confident they will misread the reasons for the second. It will be wonderful to watch their fall.
You are aware that after Labour's best campaign ever, and the Tories' worst, the far left nutters are still 64 seats away from a majority?
and very close to a majority. Scotland is an inch away from being dominated by Labour again, go look at some of the SNP central belt majorities, likewise I think someone posted here earlier about a list of 63 seats labour would gain on the smallest of swings. And if Boris was elected leader Labour would be nailed on to win in 2022.
Anna Soubry should of lost on Thurday considering the other seats that were lost, tories would do well to reflect on the campaign she ran in her constituency. I am saying this as LEAVER who leans Tory. The going after the UKIP vote strategy has beeen a complete disaster and cost Tories safe seats like Kensington.
heres what could have been done in 7 years of Tories in governemnt
did we build a million homes - no did we get a high speed broadband network - no did we get a basic motorway network - no have our modernists reformed the house of Lords - no have we got a high skill high wage economy - no have wages risen - no have we built the infrastructure to accommodate anther 4 million people - no
back in 2010 when you were rightly attacking Brown for doing bugger all little did you imagine your own mob would be just as bad And they are as bad since that list still all has to be done
and as for the voters well its clear you just dont understand them.
So we're just going to ignore 17m voters and the biggest democratic mandate for change ever.
How nice.
She means get a cross party committee to look at a different approach, not stop it altogether.
The committee approach is definitely the way to go I reckon. I would expect it to send at least some UKIP voters away but with UKIP having torn itself apart at this point would they have the ability to really recover most of those votes? Labour would struggle to really sell itself as the harder Brexit party without alienating the voters they've just won over and the Lib Dems would never attack them on that front.
The soft EEA / EFTA approach has to surely be the goal here? The economy won't collapse, we may be able to do something about fish (important for the new SCons), and even the immigration line could be sold to the harder leave voters as I believe that EFTA ensures free movement of Labour but not people. I have certainly heard enough lines to the effect of 'I don't mind them coming here and contributing but the benefit scroungers...' etc.
In a country so hopelessly divided surely an approach like this is the only workable one that doesn't alienate large segments of society. Above all else the Tories need to keep the economy afloat as the worst circumstance is a Brexit that crashes the economy leading to tidal wave of support for Labour where Corbyn can place any blame for the inevitable economic problems on the Tories incompetence.
The only Tory who is actually thinking long term. We need to get Labour, at least, involved with Brexit negotiations. We didn't win a majority, the public have not endorsed our Brexit plan (as vague as that was). It wouldn't be correct for the Conservatives to now push ahead with the Tory Brexit plan without any Labour input. We didn't win a mandate for it during the Brexit election.
Theresa should have had an alternative speech on Friday morning.
"Last night was a difficult night for myself and my party, though we finished with more votes than the opposition and the most seats in Parliament, it is clear that the British public have not given us their full endorsement for our Brexit plan. For that reason I will resign as party leader and PM once I have put a queens speech through parliament and trigger a leadership election within the Conservative party. I will stay on as PM and leader in the interim and will ask Labour's Brexit representative Kier Starmer to join a cross party Brexit negotiation committee to get the process of Brexit started before the next PM has been elected by my party."
That speech would have salvaged what little she has left of her reputation. Instead she is shaming our party and country by clinging on.
I agree that would have been the right move. Unfortunately it would have required a Tory to put their country ahead of their party. Never gonna happen.
Incredible number of marginals. Have to get down to number 80 to hit a 5% majority. The Tories should be very worried.
I said on the previous thread that having let Corbyn get his foot in the door he will charge through it next time. I also think Labour will become the biggest party again in Scotland.
Yep - Scotland could be very good for Labour next time. It's a bit below the radar because of the Tory surge there, but it's looking very promising, especially in the Central Belt.
May's gamble has given Labour a path to a majority. Not saying it will happen but they have been given a map with a bloody great 'X marks the spot' on it.
lol. This reminds me of Tony Blair talking to the PLP: "Do you think I get up every morning and try to think of new ways to piss off Labour voters?" [mutters of "Yes!"]
But delivered two landslides in 97 and 01 and a substantial majority in 05. Shame he decided to hold hands with George Bush. There was a lesson there for Theresa May.
A very astute post Jack. In the heat of the moment people have forgotten her 11 months in office.
@chrisdeerin: Suspect Ruth D's bullishness on Brexit due to wanting to show Scot voters she can make a difference where Sturgeon failed. It's about 2021
That's the biggest "Well Duh" statement. Everything for Ruth rests on being strong and independent from the UK Tory government.
Pull it off and I genuinely would re-evaluate my RDWNBFM stance.
Go back seven weeks and tell Conservatives they'd lose their majority from a 20 point lead and they either ask what care in the community project you were in or that the Messiah has endorsed Jezza .... or probably both.
True to say we have political experts on here.Did anyone bet on a hung parliament ?
So we're just going to ignore 17m voters and the biggest democratic mandate for change ever.
How nice.
She means get a cross party committee to look at a different approach, not stop it altogether.
The committee approach is definitely the way to go I reckon. I would expect it to send at least some UKIP voters away but with UKIP having torn itself apart at this point would they have the ability to really recover most of those votes? Labour would struggle to really sell itself as the harder Brexit party without alienating the voters they've just won over and the Lib Dems would never attack them on that front.
The soft EEA / EFTA approach has to surely be the goal here? The economy won't collapse, we may be able to do something about fish (important for the new SCons), and even the immigration line could be sold to the harder leave voters as I believe that EFTA ensures free movement of Labour but not people. I have certainly heard enough lines to the effect of 'I don't mind them coming here and contributing but the benefit scroungers...' etc.
In a country so hopelessly divided surely an approach like this is the only workable one that doesn't alienate large segments of society. Above all else the Tories need to keep the economy afloat as the worst circumstance is a Brexit that crashes the economy leading to tidal wave of support for Labour where Corbyn can place any blame for the inevitable economic problems on the Tories incompetence.
Soft Brexit would be my preferred option now and Boris may be able to fudge it but the EU would demand a high price and Farage would return as leader of UKIP to lead the opposition to it
Comments
If it is Davis v Boris, like JohnO, I'm spoiling my ballot paper.
So Parliament can do whatever it likes.
Plus is every marriage ended after one half had been caught cheating, the divorce rate would be much higher.
That will bribe a lot of extra voters.
British governments have appeased the extremes and crushed the centre for the last 20 years
Caveat UNS!
If you think that Ruth Davidson ran a good campaign for the Scottish Conservatives up here, just imagine what she could have done with a GE manifesto without the hidden toxic little gems planted by May's team without any consultation with the rest of the Cabinet.
Theresa should have had an alternative speech on Friday morning.
"Last night was a difficult night for myself and my party, though we finished with more votes than the opposition and the most seats in Parliament, it is clear that the British public have not given us their full endorsement for our Brexit plan. For that reason I will resign as party leader and PM once I have put a queens speech through parliament and trigger a leadership election within the Conservative party. I will stay on as PM and leader in the interim and will ask Labour's Brexit representative Kier Starmer to join a cross party Brexit negotiation committee to get the process of Brexit started before the next PM has been elected by my party."
That speech would have salvaged what little she has left of her reputation. Instead she is shaming our party and country by clinging on.
Fallon, I suspect, is way past his best.
Rudd has fighting spirit but I wonder if Britain is tiring of bossy women politicians.
How nice.
Perhaps Tories should ask ICM who is most popular
KABOOM
Rudd's parliamentary majority is far too small to even countenance her being PM.
If the Tory party thinks government is such a joke -- they will be simply thrashed by Corbyn. Even I would vote Labour in that scenario (I have never done so).
And the DUP stuff will do it for the social liberals.
And then there is May,
Trump's visit is soon isn't it ?
My my...
80% of my day job is now spent working out what Brexit actually means.
So no lectures from any of you Leavers.
Shame she didn't learn anything about the voters...
That's a lot harder than merely opposing a government.
If you mean leavers there are 4 in my house
And on a 100% sample
100% want soft BREXIT 0% want hard Brexit
After advice from ICM I have applied an age filter and now KABOOOOOM we have a 12% majority for oblivion.
May's position is looking utterly untenable, in fact the complete Tory party will do soon if they don't do *something*.
Quite what I'm not sure though.
I said on the previous thread that having let Corbyn get his foot in the door he will charge through it next time. I also think Labour will become the biggest party again in Scotland.
Has anyone played this Gwent Beta yet? If so any good? I surprisingly found it very addictive in Witcher 3, wondering how well it works in a standalone game?
As are public sector pay increases without productivity improvements.
I'm looking forward to Corbyn's first appearance in Parliament. The jokes are over. He is now the most authoritative person on the green benches.
We'll more than likely finish up more "integrated" than we was before the referendum.
Anyway she can move to a safe seat if she had to.
There might not be any money for public sector pay rises, but no need to phrase it so callously - May was addressing a voter, not giving a speech during that QT. I think she forgot that.
He's now the Leader who lost to the worst campaign in history.
Corbyn does need to get his shit together because people will take him seriously now.
She certainly has more power and authority than Tezza right now
England are on course to knock Australia out of the Champions Trophy.
How awesome is that?
Anna Soubry should of lost on Thurday considering the other seats that were lost, tories would do well to reflect on the campaign she ran in her constituency. I am saying this as LEAVER who leans Tory. The going after the UKIP vote strategy has beeen a complete disaster and cost Tories safe seats like Kensington.
my arse
heres what could have been done in 7 years of Tories in governemnt
did we build a million homes - no
did we get a high speed broadband network - no
did we get a basic motorway network - no
have our modernists reformed the house of Lords - no
have we got a high skill high wage economy - no
have wages risen - no
have we built the infrastructure to accommodate anther 4 million people - no
back in 2010 when you were rightly attacking Brown for doing bugger all little did you imagine your own mob would be just as bad And they are as bad since that list still all has to be done
and as for the voters well its clear you just dont understand them.
I hope he is OK.
Even if he is fine, I suspect TGT is over for good
The soft EEA / EFTA approach has to surely be the goal here? The economy won't collapse, we may be able to do something about fish (important for the new SCons), and even the immigration line could be sold to the harder leave voters as I believe that EFTA ensures free movement of Labour but not people. I have certainly heard enough lines to the effect of 'I don't mind them coming here and contributing but the benefit scroungers...' etc.
In a country so hopelessly divided surely an approach like this is the only workable one that doesn't alienate large segments of society. Above all else the Tories need to keep the economy afloat as the worst circumstance is a Brexit that crashes the economy leading to tidal wave of support for Labour where Corbyn can place any blame for the inevitable economic problems on the Tories incompetence.
Pull it off and I genuinely would re-evaluate my RDWNBFM stance.