DUP won't let Corbyn get in if they have the chance to stop it.
They won't put Corbyn in, but think it's very possible they'll pull the plug on Parliament and trigger a new election. Remember the DUP have a lot of working-class supporters, who I'd imagine are not overly-enamoured with Tory economics.
The headbangers won't support soft Brexit. The rest won't support hard Brexit.
My analysis as well, and my fear
Do you think that there is a cross party consensus for a soft Brexit - i.e face down the headbangers.
Yes, Brexit in name only, with some flim flam on free movement designed to have only a minimal practical impact on actual EU immigration numbers, That could and I think may be presented as a coordinated national inter-party position to propose to the EU
That would mean keeping ECJ jurisdiction while removing UK political influence. Do you not think that at some point people will ask what the point is?
Politicians will need to stop treating the electorate like a narcissistic toddler that can't be reasoned with and be honest that Brexit is an ill-conceived mess.
The sagacious David Herdson aside, the Tory 'ground game' reportage this election was nothing short of abysmal. Time and time again we were assured that Diane Abbott was up there with Profumo and Watergate in the pantheon of political hoo-ha's. What a load of tripe. Were these people trying to convince us or merely themselves?
That would be the same Diane Abbott who increased her majority to over 35,000 and won a 75% vote share!
Do you think that there is a cross party consensus for a soft Brexit - i.e face down the headbangers.
There is certainly a consensus. In theory you could get EEA/EFTA through the Commons with a comfortable majority. In practice? Corbyn has no reason to make May's life easy for her. He wants the headbangers to (continue to) tear the Conservative Party apart.
The headbangers won't support soft Brexit. The rest won't support hard Brexit.
I said to someone the other day that it wouldn't surprise me if Brexit never happens.
I think we have to technically leave the EU to satisfy the 52%, and we have to keep the best bits to satisfy the 48%. Neither remaining in the EU or hard Brexit are viable options given the political situation and wider public opinion.
Has Martin 'Foregone Conclusion' Boon apologized yet? Seriously - the drivel he was putting out probably helped to feed the 'Vote Jezz to prevent a Tory landslide' narrative. He's partly responsible for this whole debacle.
Tory Leader outsider - Tracey Crouch (I have 500-1 bet on) - sleep deprived ramblings...
- endorsed by Brian May's 'party' in this election (can clearly reach out to lefties)
- anti fox-hunting (essential to detoxify tories with the youf)
- The Daily Telegraph listed her as one of their "pragmatic, Eurosceptic" new MPs who seeks to "anchor the [Conservative] party to the right of centre"
- Crouch describes herself as a "compassionate, One-Nation Conservative"
- She voted in favour of the Marriage (Same Sex Couples) Act 2013
- Sports Minster as was and keen on footie with excellent taste in her team.
- Re Brexit, I can't see that she declared one way or the other on it. Given the split in the party again, this might be 'helpful' and certainly she wasn't strident one way or the other.
The headbangers won't support soft Brexit. The rest won't support hard Brexit.
My analysis as well, and my fear
Do you think that there is a cross party consensus for a soft Brexit - i.e face down the headbangers.
Yes, Brexit in name only, with some flim flam on free movement designed to have only a minimal practical impact on actual EU immigration numbers, That could and I think may be presented as a coordinated national inter-party position to propose to the EU
That would mean keeping ECJ jurisdiction while removing UK political influence. Do you not think that at some point people will ask what the point is?
Politicians will need to stop treating the electorate like a narcissistic toddler that can't be reasoned with and be honest that Brexit is an ill-conceived mess.
It has to be presentable as leaving the EU, however shamefacedly
Tories are setting themselves up as the enemy of the people here. They are now a wholly removed establishment, friends with big business and bankers, allies of homophobes and climate change deniers. We've been sold down the river. Hard left government WILL now happen.
Has Martin 'Foregone Conclusion' Boon apologized yet? Seriously - the drivel he was putting out probably helped to feed the 'Vote Jezz to prevent a Tory landslide' narrative. He's partly responsible for this whole debacle.
I think Martin Boon is the biggest loser of the whole election. It's one thing to make a mistake and produce inaccurate polls -- it's quite another to go around trashing other pollsters who produce different (and, as it turned out, more accurate) results.
The headbangers won't support soft Brexit. The rest won't support hard Brexit.
I said to someone the other day that it wouldn't surprise me if Brexit never happens.
I think we have to technically leave the EU to satisfy the 52%, and we have to keep the best bits to satisfy the 48%. Neither remaining in the EU or hard Brexit are viable options given the political situation and wider public opinion.
The political situation will become more chaotic the longer this goes on, and public anger at having been lied to by the Leavers and seen their country humiliated will grow. It's very possible to see a profound reversal of our attitudes towards EU membership in those circumstances.
For those saying working with the DUP is simple and straightforward and uncontroversial I say this:
What the fuck are you smoking?
The DUP are not the UUP. The DUP are extremist - relying on them for crucial votes is going to taint the Tories. The concept of Unionsim will get tainted by anti-gay bigotry, flat earthsim etc.
Yeah but links with extremism didn't stop Corbyn though did it?
I think that's because most people who voted him either did not know or did not care or did care but judged other matters more important e.g. his policies, stopping the Tories. There will be some (sadly) who may have voted for him because of his extremist links.
Being dependant on the DUP will be a whole load more visible. The DUP are the Protestant equivalent of Sinn Fein and they too have had their dark and violent side. Ian Paisley was as unacceptable an individual to me as Martin McGuinness (Google what he was doing and saying about Catholics in the late 1960s.)
And there are, frankly, double standards when it comes to gay rights / womens rights etc. It is perfectly OK for the Left to cosy up to people who believe in neither of these things, indeed believe that women should be stoned for adultery and gay men killed. But woe betide anyone on the right who cosies up to people or groups believing the same thing. There is a moral self-righteousness on the part of some on the Left which enables them to see the beam in others' eyes but not the mote in their own.
The headbangers won't support soft Brexit. The rest won't support hard Brexit.
I said to someone the other day that it wouldn't surprise me if Brexit never happens.
I think we have to technically leave the EU to satisfy the 52%, and we have to keep the best bits to satisfy the 48%. Neither remaining in the EU or hard Brexit are viable options given the political situation and wider public opinion.
Brexit is a spectrum. I think most people were in the middle. This is supported by the proportion of Brexit voters who do not want a hard Brexit, and the proportion of Remain voters who had no love for the EU, accept the result, but are worried about economic consequences. If politicians had focused more after the referendum on the mass of voters in that hump in the middle of the distribution, rather than than taking a binary view over the exact (finely balanced) proportions falling either side of a particular line, I think the Brexit process would have proceeded far more smoothly and much less divisively.
Plus, as RCS points out, it's a evolving process, not a one-off event.
From a personal standpoint, having been dispassionate to the result but highly wary and distrustful of Corbyn (I voted for Clive Lewis in the end as I like him) I shall now be actively behind the effort to see the Tories gone, gone, gone
Tory Leader outsider - Tracey Crouch (I have 500-1 bet on) - sleep deprived ramblings...
- endorsed by Brian May's 'party' in this election (can clearly reach out to lefties)
- anti fox-hunting (essential to detoxify tories with the youf)
- The Daily Telegraph listed her as one of their "pragmatic, Eurosceptic" new MPs who seeks to "anchor the [Conservative] party to the right of centre"
- Crouch describes herself as a "compassionate, One-Nation Conservative"
- She voted in favour of the Marriage (Same Sex Couples) Act 2013
- Sports Minster as was and keen on footie with excellent taste in her team.
- Re Brexit, I can't see that she declared one way or the other on it. Given the split in the party again, this might be 'helpful' and certainly she wasn't strident one way or the other.
Wonder if you substituted Corbyn far left leadership with a Marine Le Pen far right leadership if the MSM would have been so blasé about the result. I find it worrying that 50% plus of students seem to regard Corbyn as an icon .I get no impression from the tv channels I`ve watched that any of the tv presenters find it also worrying and try to question why do so many students seem willing to overlook Corbyn`s past altitudes and in some cases students wish to burn newspapers like the Mail,Express and Sun trying to tell their readers inconvenient truths about Corbyn As someone once wrote `people who start burning books end up burning people`.If ISIS soften their terrorist acts only a matter of time before some of Corbyn`s supporters start justifying ISIS`s anti-western actions
I rarely disagree with Lord JohnO of Hersham but here I do.
The PM should have done a Cameron. Announce her intention to go as soon as a new leader could be elected. Draw a line under the shamble and take the initiative. Instead the Conservative are limping along with a dead weight leader who has attached herself to the toxic DUP like an anchor around a drowning man. The Prime Minister is little short of a walking talking laughing stock.
Do the Conservatives really believe clinging to a life line with the DUP will delight the type of voter they aim to attract. May has allowed personal survival and short term expediency to override the interests of the nation and her party.
Theresa May called the general election for party gain. It was a shabby decision and she has been found out. She diminishes her office and herself further by staying a nano second longer than she must.
Whilst I don't disagree on the main sentiment, changing leader won't alter the fact that we're dependent on the DUP.
The answer is for May and the new leader not to attach themselves to the DUP and defy them to vote you down. Govern for the whole nation and not part of Ulster. Remember the government also has the card of no current government in Stormont.
Every week attached to the DUP is a disaster. The Opposition will clamp you to all their "interesting" views like barnacles. Toxic doesn't come close.
"We will not be held to ransom by the DUP" is a better feel that dancing with the devil. The cartoon of May on an Orangeman's top pocket is as powerful as Miliband as Sturgeon's puppet.
More powerful as Sturgoen isn't a flat earth creationist homophobic bigot.
The headbangers won't support soft Brexit. The rest won't support hard Brexit.
The clock is ticking, Brexit will happen automatically in less than two years. If the rest don't back whatever the government negotiates then the alternative is that they get no deal at all.
It doesn't matter how favourable the opinion polls the Tories are not going to vote for another election so this Parliament is going 5 years, isn't it.
By-elections. And possibly defections (e.g. to LibDems).
322 votes needed for a no confidence vote (given Parliament is effectively 643 members without Sinn Fein.
Labour 261 (probably 262 when final result in). SNP 35. Lib Dems 12. Plaid 4. Green 1. Sylvia Hermon 1.
314 total, 8 required. That's four defections/by-elections. It's probably not going to last the distance, is it?
The problem with the DUP thing is that there are plenty of murky tales from back in the day, about how they aided and abetted Loyalist bad boys. I don't give them any credence myself, but the Left are sure to dig them up and run with them, especially after what was meted out to Jezza.
I rarely disagree with Lord JohnO of Hersham but here I do.
The PM should have done a Cameron. Announce her intention to go as soon as a new leader could be elected. Draw a line under the shamble and take the initiative. Instead the Conservative are limping along with a dead weight leader who has attached herself to the toxic DUP like an anchor around a drowning man. The Prime Minister is little short of a walking talking laughing stock.
Do the Conservatives really believe clinging to a life line with the DUP will delight the type of voter they aim to attract. May has allowed personal survival and short term expediency to override the interests of the nation and her party.
Theresa May called the general election for party gain. It was a shabby decision and she has been found out. She diminishes her office and herself further by staying a nano second longer than she must.
Whilst I don't disagree on the main sentiment, changing leader won't alter the fact that we're dependent on the DUP.
The answer is for May and the new leader not to attach themselves to the DUP and defy them to vote you down. Govern for the whole nation and not part of Ulster. Remember the government also has the card of no current government in Stormont.
Every week attached to the DUP is a disaster. The Opposition will clamp you to all their "interesting" views like barnacles. Toxic doesn't come close.
"We will not be held to ransom by the DUP" is a better feel that dancing with the devil. The cartoon of May on an Orangeman's top pocket is as powerful as Miliband as Sturgeon's puppet.
More powerful as Sturgoen isn't a flat earth creationist homophobic bigot.
I'll allow the "flat earth creationist homophobic" bit..
Tories are setting themselves up as the enemy of the people here.
They certainly are if they let Theresa The House Snatcher continue in office.
In terms of the DUP... Well you have to deal with the cards the public give you so if that's the only viable option then I suppose we have to go with it but there has to be some "blood letting" over this disaster and that has to be in form of TM losing her job.
Otherwise the public will take their revenge whenever the next election is, just as they did in 1997 after Major refused to resign over the ERM.
The headbangers won't support soft Brexit. The rest won't support hard Brexit.
Ken Clarke is part of the Tories' wafer thin majority with the DUP.
As I posted about 7 a.m. - Ken Clarke for Prime Minister!
Clarke would be a great choice as PM of national unity. Why not? Would be best choice for the country at this critical hour.
Father of the nation. He's earned it, and he's the only viable unifying figure. But, it would need to be predicated on an acceptance that his job is to reverse Brexit and I'm not sure we're politically ready for that yet. More pain needs to be administered first.
Tory Leader outsider - Tracey Crouch (I have 500-1 bet on) - sleep deprived ramblings...
- endorsed by Brian May's 'party' in this election (can clearly reach out to lefties)
- anti fox-hunting (essential to detoxify tories with the youf)
- The Daily Telegraph listed her as one of their "pragmatic, Eurosceptic" new MPs who seeks to "anchor the [Conservative] party to the right of centre"
- Crouch describes herself as a "compassionate, One-Nation Conservative"
- She voted in favour of the Marriage (Same Sex Couples) Act 2013
- Sports Minster as was and keen on footie with excellent taste in her team.
- Re Brexit, I can't see that she declared one way or the other on it. Given the split in the party again, this might be 'helpful' and certainly she wasn't strident one way or the other.
Seems like an English Ruth Davidson, they should go for someone like that. Unknown, could shake the aura around Corbyn being the outsider
I rarely disagree with Lord JohnO of Hersham but here I do.
The PM should have done a Cameron. Announce her intention to go as soon as a new leader could be elected. Draw a line under the shamble and take the initiative. Instead the Conservative are limping along with a dead weight leader who has attached herself to the toxic DUP like an anchor around a drowning man. The Prime Minister is little short of a walking talking laughing stock.
Do the Conservatives really believe clinging to a life line with the DUP will delight the type of voter they aim to attract. May has allowed personal survival and short term expediency to override the interests of the nation and her party.
Theresa May called the general election for party gain. It was a shabby decision and she has been found out. She diminishes her office and herself further by staying a nano second longer than she must.
Whilst I don't disagree on the main sentiment, changing leader won't alter the fact that we're dependent on the DUP.
The answer is for May and the new leader not to attach themselves to the DUP and defy them to vote you down. Govern for the whole nation and not part of Ulster. Remember the government also has the card of no current government in Stormont.
Every week attached to the DUP is a disaster. The Opposition will clamp you to all their "interesting" views like barnacles. Toxic doesn't come close.
"We will not be held to ransom by the DUP" is a better feel that dancing with the devil. The cartoon of May on an Orangeman's top pocket is as powerful as Miliband as Sturgeon's puppet.
More powerful as Sturgoen isn't a flat earth creationist homophobic bigot.
Tory Leader outsider - Tracey Crouch (I have 500-1 bet on) - sleep deprived ramblings...
- endorsed by Brian May's 'party' in this election (can clearly reach out to lefties)
- anti fox-hunting (essential to detoxify tories with the youf)
- The Daily Telegraph listed her as one of their "pragmatic, Eurosceptic" new MPs who seeks to "anchor the [Conservative] party to the right of centre"
- Crouch describes herself as a "compassionate, One-Nation Conservative"
- She voted in favour of the Marriage (Same Sex Couples) Act 2013
- Sports Minster as was and keen on footie with excellent taste in her team.
- Re Brexit, I can't see that she declared one way or the other on it. Given the split in the party again, this might be 'helpful' and certainly she wasn't strident one way or the other.
Seems like an English Ruth Davidson, they should go for someone like that. Unknown, could shake the aura around Corbyn being the outsider
The headbangers won't support soft Brexit. The rest won't support hard Brexit.
I said to someone the other day that it wouldn't surprise me if Brexit never happens.
I think we have to technically leave the EU to satisfy the 52%, and we have to keep the best bits to satisfy the 48%. Neither remaining in the EU or hard Brexit are viable options given the political situation and wider public opinion.
The political situation will become more chaotic the longer this goes on, and public anger at having been lied to by the Leavers and seen their country humiliated will grow. It's very possible to see a profound reversal of our attitudes towards EU membership in those circumstances.
If there was a second referendum tomorrow it would be a decisive Remain win. The millennials are engaged now and won't sit on their hands ever again. They are the biggest generational cohort in Britain (bigger than the Boomers) and politics is in their hands now.
Tory Leader outsider - Tracey Crouch (I have 500-1 bet on) - sleep deprived ramblings...
- endorsed by Brian May's 'party' in this election (can clearly reach out to lefties)
- anti fox-hunting (essential to detoxify tories with the youf)
- The Daily Telegraph listed her as one of their "pragmatic, Eurosceptic" new MPs who seeks to "anchor the [Conservative] party to the right of centre"
- Crouch describes herself as a "compassionate, One-Nation Conservative"
- She voted in favour of the Marriage (Same Sex Couples) Act 2013
- Sports Minster as was and keen on footie with excellent taste in her team.
- Re Brexit, I can't see that she declared one way or the other on it. Given the split in the party again, this might be 'helpful' and certainly she wasn't strident one way or the other.
Oh and obviously - a younger woman. Would be 3rd Tory Female PM / Leader. A hat-trick and clean sheet versus the old men McDonnell/Corbyn of Labour.
And in today's most important political news, Qatari-owned Al Jazeera has had their channels blacked out by the rest of the Middle East. Their sports channel BeIn Sports has the F1 and Premier League rights. No F1 for me this weekend
That's the only thing that could possibly convince me to vote UKIP.
Brexit abandoned after a second referendum to that effect, or following a fresh election in which the winning party had pledged to scrap Brexit, might be acceptable.
The two biggest parties in this parliament did promise to implement Brexit. If they renege on that without it being put to the British people again, they are going to reap one heck of a storm in the aftermath.
Tories are setting themselves up as the enemy of the people here. They are now a wholly removed establishment, friends with big business and bankers, allies of homophobes and climate change deniers. We've been sold down the river. Hard left government WILL now happen.
Not quite. Just watch as Labour now edges towards the centre. Will become a soft-left party. The party is now more united than it has been in years. Labour are back.
For those saying working with the DUP is simple and straightforward and uncontroversial I say this:
What the fuck are you smoking?
The DUP are not the UUP. The DUP are extremist - relying on them for crucial votes is going to taint the Tories. The concept of Unionsim will get tainted by anti-gay bigotry, flat earthsim etc.
Yeah but links with extremism didn't stop Corbyn though did it?
I think that's because most people who voted him either did not know or did not care or did care but judged other matters more important e.g. his policies, stopping the Tories. There will be some (sadly) who may have voted for him because of his extremist links.
Being dependant on the DUP will be a whole load more visible. The DUP are the Protestant equivalent of Sinn Fein and they too have had their dark and violent side. Ian Paisley was as unacceptable an individual to me as Martin McGuinness (Google what he was doing and saying about Catholics in the late 1960s.)
And there are, frankly, double standards when it comes to gay rights / womens rights etc. It is perfectly OK for the Left to cosy up to people who believe in neither of these things, indeed believe that women should be stoned for adultery and gay men killed. But woe betide anyone on the right who cosies up to people or groups believing the same thing. There is a moral self-righteousness on the part of some on the Left which enables them to see the beam in others' eyes but not the mote in their own.
The Tories should stay away from the DUP.
Did you not notice what happened to Tim Farron on this election? Did he get a free pass?
Hold on. It isn't over. The Tories have just lost their majority, that's all, largely on a battle of public spending they lost.
Moreover, it would be equally dangerous and divisive to renege on the whole thing. None of the factors that led to the original vote has gone away, and the direction of the EU is clear.
A soft exit via EFTA-EEA (which could either be a short-medium term position, or long-term) depending on how people feel, seems sensible.
This is clearly what Ruth Davidson thinks, as that allows CFP/CAP to be repatriated whilst minimising economic disruption.
The headbangers won't support soft Brexit. The rest won't support hard Brexit.
The clock is ticking, Brexit will happen automatically in less than two years. If the rest don't back whatever the government negotiates then the alternative is that they get no deal at all.
What if the deal is we leave and immediately rejoin?
Tories are setting themselves up as the enemy of the people here. They are now a wholly removed establishment, friends with big business and bankers, allies of homophobes and climate change deniers. We've been sold down the river. Hard left government WILL now happen.
Not quite. Just watch as Labour now edges towards the centre. Will become a soft-left party. The party is now more united than it has been in years. Labour are back.
It's not centre left thinking that gained 3 million votes. Why be Miliband when you can be Corbyn?
For those saying working with the DUP is simple and straightforward and uncontroversial I say this:
What the fuck are you smoking?
The DUP are not the UUP. The DUP are extremist - relying on them for crucial votes is going to taint the Tories. The concept of Unionsim will get tainted by anti-gay bigotry, flat earthsim etc.
Yeah but links with extremism didn't stop Corbyn though did it?
I think that's because most people who voted him either did not know or did not care or did care but judged other matters more important e.g. his policies, stopping the Tories. There will be some (sadly) who may have voted for him because of his extremist links.
Being dependant on the DUP will be a whole load more visible. The DUP are the Protestant equivalent of Sinn Fein and they too have had their dark and violent side. Ian Paisley was as unacceptable an individual to me as Martin McGuinness (Google what he was doing and saying about Catholics in the late 1960s.)
And there are, frankly, double standards when it comes to gay rights / womens rights etc. It is perfectly OK for the Left to cosy up to people who believe in neither of these things, indeed believe that women should be stoned for adultery and gay men killed. But woe betide anyone on the right who cosies up to people or groups believing the same thing. There is a moral self-righteousness on the part of some on the Left which enables them to see the beam in others' eyes but not the mote in their own.
The Tories should stay away from the DUP.
Did you not notice what happened to Tim Farron on this election? Did he get a free pass?
Bigots vote. Entire communities of homophobes all over the North of England , the Midlands and London voted - mostly for Labour.
Tories are setting themselves up as the enemy of the people here. They are now a wholly removed establishment, friends with big business and bankers, allies of homophobes and climate change deniers. We've been sold down the river. Hard left government WILL now happen.
Not quite. Just watch as Labour now edges towards the centre. Will become a soft-left party. The party is now more united than it has been in years. Labour are back.
It's not centre left thinking that gained 3 million votes. Why be Miliband when you can be Corbyn?
Yeah, given the failure of the moderates in recent years, I wouldn't be surprised if the left was more emboldened.
The headbangers won't support soft Brexit. The rest won't support hard Brexit.
I said to someone the other day that it wouldn't surprise me if Brexit never happens.
I think we have to technically leave the EU to satisfy the 52%, and we have to keep the best bits to satisfy the 48%. Neither remaining in the EU or hard Brexit are viable options given the political situation and wider public opinion.
The political situation will become more chaotic the longer this goes on, and public anger at having been lied to by the Leavers and seen their country humiliated will grow. It's very possible to see a profound reversal of our attitudes towards EU membership in those circumstances.
If there was a second referendum tomorrow it would be a decisive Remain win. The millennials are engaged now and won't sit on their hands ever again. They are the biggest generational cohort in Britain (bigger than the Boomers) and politics is in their hands now.
Wow. Do you want to fall victim to your hubris as well?
Well over 60% of the electorate want to crack on, and see Brexit through.
I rarely disagree with Lord JohnO of Hersham but here I do.
The PM should have done a Cameron. Announce her intention to go as soon as a new leader could be elected. Draw a line under the shamble and take the initiative. Instead the Conservative are limping along with a dead weight leader who has attached herself to the toxic DUP like an anchor around a drowning man. The Prime Minister is little short of a walking talking laughing stock.
Do the Conservatives really believe clinging to a life line with the DUP will delight the type of voter they aim to attract. May has allowed personal survival and short term expediency to override the interests of the nation and her party.
Theresa May called the general election for party gain. It was a shabby decision and she has been found out. She diminishes her office and herself further by staying a nano second longer than she must.
Whilst I don't disagree on the main sentiment, changing leader won't alter the fact that we're dependent on the DUP.
The answer is for May and the new leader not to attach themselves to the DUP and defy them to vote you down. Govern for the whole nation and not part of Ulster. Remember the government also has the card of no current government in Stormont.
Every week attached to the DUP is a disaster. The Opposition will clamp you to all their "interesting" views like barnacles. Toxic doesn't come close.
"We will not be held to ransom by the DUP" is a better feel that dancing with the devil. The cartoon of May on an Orangeman's top pocket is as powerful as Miliband as Sturgeon's puppet.
Except that, unlike Sturgeon, the DUP are NOT trying to destroy the Union!
People need to understand the DUP are not just the UUP with different clothes.
Listen to JackW - the DUP is toxic to the concept of Unionism in Scotland. You've got a Scottish Conservative leader now having to rub shoulders with people who think she is an abomination.
In a way so am relieved, for it cements the Union, but I fear that the position will not appease the working poor - those whom I wanted to help with my Leave vote. It will doubtless help me personally - Oxbridge educated antiquarian booksellers don't much worry about competition in the job market. It's my cousins I fear for. They've endured a poor education and have even poorer job prospects.
Some freedom of movement fudge must be made if the EU wants to actually help itself and is...
I'm sorry Mortimer, you are so very late to the party and your wing has completely failed to take the party forwards, you and your "one nation" allies have fucked us for the next 10 years so you could get revenge on the Cameroons, who delivered us a majority.
Tories are setting themselves up as the enemy of the people here. They are now a wholly removed establishment, friends with big business and bankers, allies of homophobes and climate change deniers. We've been sold down the river. Hard left government WILL now happen.
Not quite. Just watch as Labour now edges towards the centre. Will become a soft-left party. The party is now more united than it has been in years. Labour are back.
It's not centre left thinking that gained 3 million votes. Why be Miliband when you can be Corbyn?
Yeah, given the failure of the moderates in recent years, I wouldn't be surprised if the left was more emboldened.
It's much harder for moderates to get rid of Corbyn now than was expected. Of course some of them will start singing his tune, but for people of principle they face an extremely difficult task to change the direction of the Labour Party.
Labour must fancy their chances in 2022 now, possibly even with a landslide. What can the Tories throw at him next time? The terrorist stuff can't be used again, and they probably won't even have Diane Abbott.
In a way so am relieved, for it cements the Union, but I fear that the position will not appease the working poor - those whom I wanted to help with my Leave vote. It will doubtless help me personally - Oxbridge educated antiquarian booksellers don't much worry about competition in the job market. It's my cousins I fear for. They've endured a poor education and have even poorer job prospects.
Some freedom of movement fudge must be made if the EU wants to actually help itself and is...
I'm sorry Mortimer, you are so very late to the party and your wing has completely failed to take the party forwards, you and your "one nation" allies have fucked us for the next 10 years so you could get revenge on the Cameroons, who delivered us a majority.
Steady, all three of us are Tories and support Brexit.
The headbangers won't support soft Brexit. The rest won't support hard Brexit.
Ken Clarke is part of the Tories' wafer thin majority with the DUP.
As I posted about 7 a.m. - Ken Clarke for Prime Minister!
Clarke would be a great choice as PM of national unity. Why not? Would be best choice for the country at this critical hour.
Father of the nation. He's earned it, and he's the only viable unifying figure. But, it would need to be predicated on an acceptance that his job is to reverse Brexit and I'm not sure we're politically ready for that yet. More pain needs to be administered first.
But a vote for labour was hardly a vote for remain, or even soft Brexit. Labour were offering the fantasy of keeping single market access whilst ending free movement. Something that is wholly unachievable politically. That was how it was able to unify its remainia student vote, with its leave northern voters.
Wonder if you substituted Corbyn far left leadership with a Marine Le Pen far right leadership if the MSM would have been so blasé about the result. I find it worrying that 50% plus of students seem to regard Corbyn as an icon .I get no impression from the tv channels I`ve watched that any of the tv presenters find it also worrying and try to question why do so many students seem willing to overlook Corbyn`s past altitudes and in some cases students wish to burn newspapers like the Mail,Express and Sun trying to tell their readers inconvenient truths about Corbyn As someone once wrote `people who start burning books end up burning people`.If ISIS soften their terrorist acts only a matter of time before some of Corbyn`s supporters start justifying ISIS`s anti-western actions
They don't find it worrying because it isn't worrying. The establishment scaremongering failed. People saw through it.
Labour must fancy their chances in 2022 now, possibly even with a landslide. What can the Tories throw at him next time? The terrorist stuff can't be used again, and they probably won't even have Diane Abbott.
On the other hand Corbyn may have maxed out the youth and anti-Brexit vote in this election.
Hopefully punters who relied on his model will not be suing him for the loses incurred !
If polls were produced by the financial services industry, they would come with a couple of pages of risk warnings !!
Unnecessary. The polling industry put the facts before us and explained their methodologies. How was anybody to know that for the first time since Boadicea was a babe, the Yoof of this country would arise from their beds and vote for a change?
That's the only thing that could possibly convince me to vote UKIP.
You and people who think like you are welcome to marginalise yourselves and take no further part in mainstream politics in this country.
If we don't leave the EU, eventually, we won't even be a country. Or a democracy. Like @Mortimer, I would be very happy with a soft Brexit.
But I've no intention of ceding our democracy to a federal superstate for all time, just because of one election where the youth showed up and a pound shop Gordon Brown turned out to be a core vote repellent.
May / Corbyn / the DUP whoever are for the next five years, ever closer union is (a boot stomping on a human face) forever.
It does seem that Paul Dacre has terrible political judgement doesn't it? Backed Brown (for a while) backed May. Hated Blair and was half-hearted (and came to hate) Cameron.
Also I wonder what's happened to Ruperts political antenna? Maybe the old man's losing it...
The headbangers won't support soft Brexit. The rest won't support hard Brexit.
Ken Clarke is part of the Tories' wafer thin majority with the DUP.
As I posted about 7 a.m. - Ken Clarke for Prime Minister!
Clarke would be a great choice as PM of national unity. Why not? Would be best choice for the country at this critical hour.
Father of the nation. He's earned it, and he's the only viable unifying figure. But, it would need to be predicated on an acceptance that his job is to reverse Brexit and I'm not sure we're politically ready for that yet. More pain needs to be administered first.
I will never forgive Clarke for literally sitting on the same platform as Blair promoting the policy of joining the Euro.
The headbangers won't support soft Brexit. The rest won't support hard Brexit.
Ken Clarke is part of the Tories' wafer thin majority with the DUP.
As I posted about 7 a.m. - Ken Clarke for Prime Minister!
Clarke would be a great choice as PM of national unity. Why not? Would be best choice for the country at this critical hour.
Father of the nation. He's earned it, and he's the only viable unifying figure. But, it would need to be predicated on an acceptance that his job is to reverse Brexit and I'm not sure we're politically ready for that yet. More pain needs to be administered first.
I will never forgive Clarke for literally sitting on the same platform as Blair promoting the policy of joining the Euro.
Not joining the Euro has proved to be a tragic mistake. The predictions that it would lead to loss of political influence and marginalisation of the UK have come true.
The headbangers won't support soft Brexit. The rest won't support hard Brexit.
The clock is ticking, Brexit will happen automatically in less than two years. If the rest don't back whatever the government negotiates then the alternative is that they get no deal at all.
Exactly. The Eurofanatics seem to think that the alternative to a negotiated Brexit is no Brexit. It isn't. It is a disorderly Brexit of the hardest type. The sooner they understand this basic fact the better for everyone.
Tory Leader outsider - Tracey Crouch (I have 500-1 bet on) - sleep deprived ramblings...
- endorsed by Brian May's 'party' in this election (can clearly reach out to lefties)
- anti fox-hunting (essential to detoxify tories with the youf)
- The Daily Telegraph listed her as one of their "pragmatic, Eurosceptic" new MPs who seeks to "anchor the [Conservative] party to the right of centre"
- Crouch describes herself as a "compassionate, One-Nation Conservative"
- She voted in favour of the Marriage (Same Sex Couples) Act 2013
- Sports Minster as was and keen on footie with excellent taste in her team.
- Re Brexit, I can't see that she declared one way or the other on it. Given the split in the party again, this might be 'helpful' and certainly she wasn't strident one way or the other.
Seems like an English Ruth Davidson, they should go for someone like that. Unknown, could shake the aura around Corbyn being the outsider
I'd argue May was unknown at the start.
But didn't she fashion herself as the establishment candidate and that was be her downfall in an anti establishment era. The safe pair of hands that no one wants, the Tories need to immediately rule out another dour, safe pair of hands like Hammond, Rudd, Davis. They just won't do it in this climate
It does seem that Paul Dacre has terrible political judgement doesn't it? Backed Brown (for a while) backed May. Hated Blair and was half-hearted (and came to hate) Cameron.
Also I wonder what's happened to Ruperts political antenna? Maybe the old man's losing it...
The headbangers won't support soft Brexit. The rest won't support hard Brexit.
The clock is ticking, Brexit will happen automatically in less than two years. If the rest don't back whatever the government negotiates then the alternative is that they get no deal at all.
What if the deal is we leave and immediately rejoin?
No way this government could agree and ratify that deal.
It may be given the election result that the EU stance hardens into a take it or leave it strategy. The idea would be that EU leaders would decide this would be the time for the UK either to be fully in or fully out - no halfway house.
So either the UK would be
a) Hard Brexit - out of EU, out of customs union, out of Single Market - no preferential access whatsoever - no trade deal i.e. WTO rules.
or
b) Full EU membership - join Eurozone (ditch £ sterling), join Schengen, no rebate.
Labour must fancy their chances in 2022 now, possibly even with a landslide. What can the Tories throw at him next time? The terrorist stuff can't be used again, and they probably won't even have Diane Abbott.
On the other hand Corbyn may have maxed out the youth and anti-Brexit vote in this election.
Don't forget it all depends if the cohort changes it's politics as they age, in five years there will be less of today's oldies and more young people coming through. Any evidence that the cohort"matures" in view point?
Comments
Politicians will need to stop treating the electorate like a narcissistic toddler that can't be reasoned with and be honest that Brexit is an ill-conceived mess.
- endorsed by Brian May's 'party' in this election (can clearly reach out to lefties)
- anti fox-hunting (essential to detoxify tories with the youf)
- The Daily Telegraph listed her as one of their "pragmatic, Eurosceptic" new MPs who seeks to "anchor the [Conservative] party to the right of centre"
- Crouch describes herself as a "compassionate, One-Nation Conservative"
- She voted in favour of the Marriage (Same Sex Couples) Act 2013
- Sports Minster as was and keen on footie with excellent taste in her team.
- Re Brexit, I can't see that she declared one way or the other on it. Given the split in the party again, this might be 'helpful' and certainly she wasn't strident one way or the other.
It has to be presentable as leaving the EU, however shamefacedly
We've been sold down the river.
Hard left government WILL now happen.
Being dependant on the DUP will be a whole load more visible. The DUP are the Protestant equivalent of Sinn Fein and they too have had their dark and violent side. Ian Paisley was as unacceptable an individual to me as Martin McGuinness (Google what he was doing and saying about Catholics in the late 1960s.)
And there are, frankly, double standards when it comes to gay rights / womens rights etc. It is perfectly OK for the Left to cosy up to people who believe in neither of these things, indeed believe that women should be stoned for adultery and gay men killed. But woe betide anyone on the right who cosies up to people or groups believing the same thing. There is a moral self-righteousness on the part of some on the Left which enables them to see the beam in others' eyes but not the mote in their own.
The Tories should stay away from the DUP.
Plus, as RCS points out, it's a evolving process, not a one-off event.
If polls were produced by the financial services industry, they would come with a couple of pages of risk warnings !!
Wonder if the rightwing press will be wanting her gone.
I find it worrying that 50% plus of students seem to regard Corbyn as an icon .I get no impression from the tv channels I`ve watched that any of the tv presenters find it also worrying and try to question why do so many students seem willing to overlook Corbyn`s past altitudes and in some cases students wish to burn newspapers like the Mail,Express and Sun trying to tell their readers inconvenient truths about Corbyn
As someone once wrote `people who start burning books end up burning people`.If ISIS soften their terrorist acts only a matter of time before some of Corbyn`s supporters start justifying ISIS`s anti-western actions
Labour 261 (probably 262 when final result in). SNP 35. Lib Dems 12. Plaid 4. Green 1. Sylvia Hermon 1.
314 total, 8 required. That's four defections/by-elections. It's probably not going to last the distance, is it?
In terms of the DUP... Well you have to deal with the cards the public give you so if that's the only viable option then I suppose we have to go with it but there has to be some "blood letting" over this disaster and that has to be in form of TM losing her job.
Otherwise the public will take their revenge whenever the next election is, just as they did in 1997 after Major refused to resign over the ERM.
There are a lot of people who May cannot afford to upset now. Just as well she's not made any enemies recently, e.g. newspaper editors.
The two biggest parties in this parliament did promise to implement Brexit. If they renege on that without it being put to the British people again, they are going to reap one heck of a storm in the aftermath.
Moreover, it would be equally dangerous and divisive to renege on the whole thing. None of the factors that led to the original vote has gone away, and the direction of the EU is clear.
A soft exit via EFTA-EEA (which could either be a short-medium term position, or long-term) depending on how people feel, seems sensible.
This is clearly what Ruth Davidson thinks, as that allows CFP/CAP to be repatriated whilst minimising economic disruption.
OUR CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER.
I think he wants to roast someone in cabinet lol.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/29/david-cameron-says-jeremy-corbyn-should-resign
Well over 60% of the electorate want to crack on, and see Brexit through.
Listen to JackW - the DUP is toxic to the concept of Unionism in Scotland. You've got a Scottish Conservative leader now having to rub shoulders with people who think she is an abomination.
The current boundaries are based on electorates from the year 2000.
Let's not fall out.
I think life is going to do some of that fast approaching I hear about.
How should we factor in political uncertainty into our financing over the next 5 years?
Jaw jaw is better than war war.
Ego te absolvo, Martin.
But I've no intention of ceding our democracy to a federal superstate for all time, just because of one election where the youth showed up and a pound shop Gordon Brown turned out to be a core vote repellent.
May / Corbyn / the DUP whoever are for the next five years, ever closer union is (a boot stomping on a human face) forever.
Also I wonder what's happened to Ruperts political antenna? Maybe the old man's losing it...
Speaker Bercow ..
It may be given the election result that the EU stance hardens into a take it or leave it strategy. The idea would be that EU leaders would decide this would be the time for the UK either to be fully in or fully out - no halfway house.
So either the UK would be
a) Hard Brexit - out of EU, out of customs union, out of Single Market - no preferential access whatsoever - no trade deal i.e. WTO rules.
or
b) Full EU membership - join Eurozone (ditch £ sterling), join Schengen, no rebate.
What would the minority UK government do then?
What would the UK electorate want?