I'll say it right now: if you thought May wasn't cut out to be PM, just wait until you see Boris.
Anyone but Boris. Hammond, Rudd, Hunt .. Ideally Davidson.
Or, and TSE might use the banhammer on me for saying this, but I'd support David Davis as temporary caretaker leader up until the conclusion of the A50 negotiations.
2 years. Further election.
Yeah.
But, there the FPTA still exists, it hasn't been repealed.
I don't think it would be voted down. Labour would believe they'd get the big win.
I'll say it right now: if you thought May wasn't cut out to be PM, just wait until you see Boris.
Anyone but Boris. Hammond, Rudd, Hunt .. Ideally Davidson.
Or, and TSE might use the banhammer on me for saying this, but I'd support David Davis as temporary caretaker leader up until the conclusion of the A50 negotiations.
2 years. Further election.
Davis, bizarrely, might actually be the unity candidate now.
He is basically the only one of the old guard left....
No we need a populist to beat Corbyn's populism, I am backing Boris if he stands no question, Hammond, Rudd, Hunt, Davis none have the charisma the party needs and May sadly lacked. Boris would beat Corbyn, I am not certain about the others now
If Ruth Davidson isn't being urgently found a safe seat then something is wrong.
I'm just about avoiding blubbering. NI is totally polarised. The middle ground is a no man's land.
Is the UUP long-term dead, at least in Westminster terms? Once the situation becomes polarised like that, it's very hard to stage a comeback because of the risk of "the other side" sneaking in.
What do you think is the future for the more liberal brand of unionism in NI ? Is the best chance that the DUP becomes a bigger tent, with a more liberal wing? That at some point the DUP hits a scandal and the UUP resurrects itself? Can't see there being a new unionist party to replace the UUP, been some comedy value in previous attempts. Or can you not see a path at all?
I'm too tired and emotional (not a euphemism in this case) to think about it. Right now, I'm considering moving to Australia.
We have a lot of thinking to do. I can't see a long term future for Unionism if it is dependent on the DUP entirely. They will never win over enough Catholic or non religious people to keep the Union safe. We are effectively admitting that the Union will survive until the current primary school kids can vote.
Am I right in thinking that other than North Down (which is a bit Home Counties) all the NI MPs are Shinners or DUP ?
Yes. And the DUP will win North Down by a landslide when Lady Sylvia goes. Right I must go home
All the best Lucian. Love your posts on here and it's a pleasure to see you back, even in circumstances that are hard for you. Come home to Yorkshire?
@Bencjacobs: This feels a lot like the US in 2016. Any other Labour candidate but Corbyn would have beat May. Any Tory besides May would have beat Corbyn
She miscalculated, held the election because she thought she would smash Corbyn, and now, possibly Jeremy is going to do to her what he did to Diane Abbott in that field 40 years ago.
@Bencjacobs: This feels a lot like the US in 2016. Any other Labour candidate but Corbyn would have beat May. Any Tory besides May would have beat Corbyn
No. Corbyn beat May. Any other Labour leader wouldn't have been able to fire up the young and disenfranchised and get out the vote.
CON 43 LAB 40 is an immense result for Corbyn considering the institutions arrayed against him. A repudiation of negative campaigning and of needlessly negative economic policies.
@Bencjacobs: This feels a lot like the US in 2016. Any other Labour candidate but Corbyn would have beat May. Any Tory besides May would have beat Corbyn
No. Corbyn beat May. Any other Labour leader wouldn't have been able to fire up the young and disenfranchised and get out the vote.
After the dreadful labour leadership elections I would have to agree with you!
Labour now officially exceeded their 2015 seats total.
All the Europhobes have done is make Corbyn a God.
Why are you being so rude to everyone tonight?
Do you realise how you're coming across?
As I've insinuated tonight, is that really somewhere you want to go? Someone who retracted a job offer I'd never asked for? To your credit, you privately apologised profusely for that.
You need to consider the position of 'ordinary' people. You are too EU obsessed. Much more is in the purview of the UK's parliament than in the EU's, and 'ordinary' people realise that.
Hence this result. You should have listened.
But at least you can escape abroad. I cannot.
You are projecting your own views onto posters you politically disagree with, and doing so with personal digs, and a high degree of petulance.
I think when you sober up (and have a rest) you will regret this.
I won't engage with it any longer.
No. There is no projecting going on.
I am a fiscally right-wing, socially centrist guy. Hence I am the sort of person who is open to Labour, Conservative, Lib Dem or (potentially) Green.
The Conservatives have, at the moment, lost me and many others. I fear when you open your mind (sober or not) from your EU-obsessed position you will regret this.
I voted Conservative at the 2015 GE. I voted LD this year.
I'm the sort of person you wanted, and you repelled. Perhaps you should ask yourself why.
CON 43 LAB 40 is an immense result for Corbyn considering the institutions arrayed against him. A repudiation of negative campaigning and of needlessly negative economic policies.
Yes, but also an encouragement of fantasy spending.
@Bencjacobs: This feels a lot like the US in 2016. Any other Labour candidate but Corbyn would have beat May. Any Tory besides May would have beat Corbyn
No. Corbyn beat May.
Tories will end up with most votes and most seats.
As a group of political anoraks, can anyone think of a worse political campaign than this Tory one?
What it means is that the next time a political party wants to do something like reform social care they probably won't tell the electorate about it anywhere near an election. Is that a good thing?
The voters clearly want populism at the moment not making hard decisions on funding social care etc, so Boris it has to be
Agreed. Corbyn thinks he can use lies, bribes, and unicorns to charm a nation, but he's nothing compared to Boris. Time to fight populist fire with populist fire.
Agree entirely, we have to play Corbyn at his own game, Boris it has to be. Davidson should stay in Scotland where she is clearly doing a fantastic job against the SNP
As a group of political anoraks, can anyone think of a worse political campaign than this Tory one?
What it means is that the next time a political party wants to do something like reform social care they probably won't tell the electorate about it anywhere near an election. Is that a good thing?
The voters clearly want populism at the moment not making hard decisions on funding social care etc, so Boris it has to be
The voters chose populism on 23rd June. Boris should've been chosen then.
People complain the BBC is slow with results. Sky takes the American view that it is better to take a jump based on what activists at the count think has happened in order to be fastest with 600-odd results even if you have to apologise for a couple later on.
I'll say it right now: if you thought May wasn't cut out to be PM, just wait until you see Boris.
Anyone but Boris. Hammond, Rudd, Hunt .. Ideally Davidson.
Or, and TSE might use the banhammer on me for saying this, but I'd support David Davis as temporary caretaker leader up until the conclusion of the A50 negotiations.
2 years. Further election.
Yeah.
But, there the FPTA still exists, it hasn't been repealed.
If Corbyn agreed to a GE this year when he looked like a turkey agreeing with Christmas I can't see him or his successor doing anything else in 2 years time. But yes, another bit of short sighted too clever by halfery from those foppish clowns which we could have done without.
@Bencjacobs: This feels a lot like the US in 2016. Any other Labour candidate but Corbyn would have beat May. Any Tory besides May would have beat Corbyn
No. Corbyn beat May.
Tories will end up with most votes and most seats.
We'll see who is still leader of their party at the end of the month shall we?
@Bencjacobs: This feels a lot like the US in 2016. Any other Labour candidate but Corbyn would have beat May. Any Tory besides May would have beat Corbyn
Wrong, only Corbyn could ride the populist wave on anti austerity while his acceptance of Brexit and lack of association with Remain enabled him to win UKIP voters. Only Boris amongst Westminster Tories would have outperformed May
Corbyn thinks he can use lies, bribes, and unicorns to charm a nation, but he's nothing compared to Boris. Time to fight populist fire with populist fire.
A serious Parliamentarian and thrice-proven campaigner versus a deliberate buffoon? Corbyn wins that every single time.
Labour now officially exceeded their 2015 seats total.
All the Europhobes have done is make Corbyn a God.
Why are you being so rude to everyone tonight?
Do you realise how you're coming across?
As I've insinuated tonight, is that really somewhere you want to go? Someone who retracted a job offer I'd never asked for? To your credit, you privately apologised profusely for that.
You need to consider the position of 'ordinary' people. You are too EU obsessed. Much more is in the purview of the UK's parliament than in the EU's, and 'ordinary' people realise that.
Hence this result. You should have listened.
But at least you can escape abroad. I cannot.
You are projecting your own views onto posters you politically disagree with, and doing so with personal digs, and a high degree of petulance.
I think when you sober up (and have a rest) you will regret this.
I won't engage with it any longer.
No. There is no projecting going on.
I am a fiscally right-wing, socially centrist guy. Hence I am the sort of person who is open to Labour, Conservative, Lib Dem or (potentially) Green.
The Conservatives have, at the moment, lost me and many others. I fear when you open your mind (sober or not) from your EU-obsessed position you will regret this.
I voted Conservative at the 2015 GE. I voted LD this year.
I'm the sort of person you wanted, and you repelled. Perhaps you should ask yourself why.
You seem to have a psychological need to be wooed and feel wanted.
Then you get frosty when people don't chase after you and tell you how much they love you.
There's almost certainly a technical name for that disorder.
Labour now officially exceeded their 2015 seats total.
All the Europhobes have done is make Corbyn a God.
Why are you being so rude to everyone tonight?
Do you realise how you're coming across?
As I've insinuated tonight, is that really somewhere you want to go? Someone who retracted a job offer I'd never asked for? To your credit, you privately apologised profusely for that.
You need to consider the position of 'ordinary' people. You are too EU obsessed. Much more is in the purview of the UK's parliament than in the EU's, and 'ordinary' people realise that.
Hence this result. You should have listened.
But at least you can escape abroad. I cannot.
You are projecting your own views onto posters you politically disagree with, and doing so with personal digs, and a high degree of petulance.
I think when you sober up (and have a rest) you will regret this.
I won't engage with it any longer.
No. There is no projecting going on.
I am a fiscally right-wing, socially centrist guy. Hence I am the sort of person who is open to Labour, Conservative, Lib Dem or (potentially) Green.
The Conservatives have, at the moment, lost me and many others. I fear when you open your mind (sober or not) from your EU-obsessed position you will regret this.
I voted Conservative at the 2015 GE. I voted LD this year.
I'm the sort of person you wanted, and you repelled. Perhaps you should ask yourself why.
You seem to have a psychological need to be wooed and feel wanted.
Then you get frosty when people don't chase after you and tell you how much they love you.
There's almost certainly a technical name for that disorder.
Oh, come on. Instead of mindlessly attacking me, attack my position.
Which you cannot.
(BTW, as with Charles and Plato, it's a little shit to use an accusation of mental disorder against someone who you know has had a recent significant brainfart).
816 majority. Local election results last month were a warning. Nicola Blackwood 7 years and gone. I remember talking to her when she was a fortnight into the job at her first surgery. I was still a Tory then. How times change.
Yes, but also an encouragement of fantasy spending.
Fully costed, unlike May's blank manifesto. Plenty of wealth in this country. We can afford to pay our nurses and send our kids to university. We don't have to tax only income, you know.
Austerity is the ideological fantasy. One question for the PB Tories: how is it justifiable - during any period let alone a period of austerity - that earned income is taxed at 45% and unearned income at 20%?
One thing is for certain: this is a disastrous result for the hardcore Europhobes within the Conservative party.
Once more I need to educate them: eurosceptic != europhobe.
You come over as remarkably petulant.
LOL. Really?
I'm neither bad-tempered or sulky. I'm LOLing at the Europhobes reaping what they have sowed.
I've been laughing throughout this evening, even if it may, in the long term, fuck me and my family up.
LOL at the mindless Europhobes.
even if it may, in the long term, fuck me and my family up.
lol
Im sort of wondering who's mindless
Care to tell me your 'considered' position last year? The one where, as a true small-c 'conservative', you considered the consequences?
I'm on a ride set on course by others. I'm a passenger, impotent to change the destination. And I cannot stop that destination if it is wrapped around a lamppost. In the meantime I'll enjoy the ride, as others have locked the doors and have control of the steering wheel and pedals.
Yes, but also an encouragement of fantasy spending.
Fully costed, unlike May's blank manifesto. Plenty of wealth in this country. We can afford to pay our nurses and send our kids to university. We don't have to tax only income, you know.
Austerity is the ideological fantasy. One question for the PB Tories: how is it justifiable - during any period let alone a period of austerity - that earned income is taxed at 45% and unearned income at 20%?
I've been up too long to think about it, and I've only been a PB Tory for 20 hours. But the priorities were wrong for a start - tuition fees prioritised over youth service cuts reversed for instance.
Comments
And they might.
She will get a position under a new leader you would think.
Hmmmm
Goodbye Farage brexit.
BBC now saying 316 Tories. So comfortably largest party but only one group willing to deal with them, so a tough period of minority.
Guess we're going to get a lot more familiar with the DUP....
Rudd is the only one who looks to be decent/competent out of all the options.
Con get 45% +11%.
But not enough.
A first small step back to sanity after the dreadful decision to Brexit.
Round 2: Boris v. Amber.
And on that bombshell, good morning. I'm off to bed.
I am a fiscally right-wing, socially centrist guy. Hence I am the sort of person who is open to Labour, Conservative, Lib Dem or (potentially) Green.
The Conservatives have, at the moment, lost me and many others. I fear when you open your mind (sober or not) from your EU-obsessed position you will regret this.
I voted Conservative at the 2015 GE. I voted LD this year.
I'm the sort of person you wanted, and you repelled. Perhaps you should ask yourself why.
NEW THREAD NEW THREAD NEW THREAD NEW THREAD NEW THREAD NEW THREAD NEW THREAD
If they govern a minority they're going to get crushed in 2022.
I'm neither bad-tempered or sulky. I'm LOLing at the Europhobes reaping what they have sowed.
I've been laughing throughout this evening, even if it may, in the long term, fuck me and my family up.
LOL at the mindless Europhobes.
Then you get frosty when people don't chase after you and tell you how much they love you.
There's almost certainly a technical name for that disorder.
I'm still not sure how she got this far without being found out.
lol
Im sort of wondering who's mindless
Which you cannot.
(BTW, as with Charles and Plato, it's a little shit to use an accusation of mental disorder against someone who you know has had a recent significant brainfart).
Austerity is the ideological fantasy. One question for the PB Tories: how is it justifiable - during any period let alone a period of austerity - that earned income is taxed at 45% and unearned income at 20%?
I'm on a ride set on course by others. I'm a passenger, impotent to change the destination. And I cannot stop that destination if it is wrapped around a lamppost. In the meantime I'll enjoy the ride, as others have locked the doors and have control of the steering wheel and pedals.